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I’ve been trying to work on packing all combat and challenges into 3 or fewer rounds. I’m about efficiency (well, fun first), and that’s why I love these videos! :)
I think one of the reasons why ideas like this can sometimes rile up some of the dnd community is becuase of the fundamental reasons why people play dnd. Some play it as a strategy war game, where they build characters to optimise their chances of beating challenges set by the DM. Other players just see the rules and dice as a way of delivering uncertainty in a narrative, and focus on the drama and story. While both are valid I prefer more of the second approach. These one round skill challenges are great ways of getting to that drama without getting bogged down. Players who prefer the first way might be frustrated that everything can go wrong based on so few roles and can bypass their clever build ideas. One way I might be tempted to change it further is by arbitrarily giving +1 (or maybe evenr -1) bonuses based on the creativity of the action the players suggest. While this approach would bog down combat I think it would be easy to implement in this context. Advantage is quite a huge bonus and it would be nice to be a little more precise, and therefore make the players feel a little more rewarded for their creativity and strategy.
This is a great narrative tool to keep the story moving without removing RP potential. I like it. It makes each player feel unique as well. I’ve been running a Valor Bard in a recent campaign and I have sometimes wondered why the game isn’t more engineered for my Charisma heavy Bard to use that Charisma to “talk” his way in/out of a situation like this, instead of just failing because it was combat or RP that didn’t let the Bard flex his charisma muscles.
First of all, I love all your videos on skill challenges. They're so helpful. But also, this idea is so cool! I love the idea of taking the average and doing it in one round instead of the traditional format so that every roll matters. This is especially important in larger groups since you're more likely to hit 3 fails before someone gets to go. Thank you for sharing!
This gave me some great ideas how to handle environmental threats as a random encounter. Every personal fail causes a problem for that character but they'll get to roll a save DC against it. If half or more fail they all will suffer a penalty. That penalty can be reduced, but not completely ignored, by a successful save DC. No need to fear that everything bogs down as the players can't come up with the seventh or eight roll they need to get enough successes.
I can imagine the feeling at the table! The way you decided it was so impactful. I think if you did an actual play video/podcast it would show real, in the moment, examples of all your fun home brew rules!
I love this! I should have used this in a vines trap my player stumbled into afew years back. My one revision I might done is maybe allow an overtime in case the party fails on the first round. Say the party stumbles into a tar pit trap. Ranger and fighter scurry out, but the wizard, cleric, and rogue fail. Those that failed now have a lair effect slapped on them alongside the previous consequence. Next round, situations more dire but also only three are left in the tar. Clock resets, but because only three are left in the pit only two successes are required and those that escaped can make checks to help the others get out.
This sounds very similar to a discussion I had on Reddit about how to make skill challenges great again. One user said that their home brew version was based on getting a certain number of successes within a certain number of rounds, instead of X successes before 3 failures, since that classic version discourages players from contributing unless they feel confident in succeeding. Going by X successes within Y rounds encourages everyone to have at it. This sounds similar to that, but it’s one single round. Great idea DC!
This came just in time! Ironically, my group just fled a crumbling temple (chased by spiders). They failed the skill challenge to escape so based on who was behind and ahead, they had advantage and disadvantage. 2 ended up escaping, 2 were trapped under the rubble. Guess what’s starting my next session off! One round skill challenge getting them out of the rubble!
The Dungeon Coach Ha! That is my worry! Their next step is to climb down the cliff side whilst this temple just keeps collapsing (another skill challenge type encounter). (May give you a run for your money for killer DM!) This system reminds me very much of the Star Wars RPG where you could pass or fail a check, but something bad or good could also happen, depending on the snazzy dice outcome. BUT MUCH LESS CLUNKY! Great stuff! How would you run the cliff encounter? I’ve got a list of possible threats and opportunities to entice or make them stop and think when climbing down to just avoid the ‘I climb’ button
Thanks for this! As you said on another comment of mine, it's a perfect way to use a skill challenge for my larger group - I'll definitely be using it when we start up again.
One round skill challenges would've been so useful last session! My party was getting raided by pirates(sea campaign) and this would've been super useful when dealing with the crew and getting to the captain and bosun to start the mini Boss battle! Thanks coach!
Great vid as always! At one point about 8 years ago I had a group that grew to 15 players. Some experienced and some new. A few were kids of players that were just getting old enough to start learning to play dnd. A single round of combat was 45 mins at a minimum. It was horrible and I broke everyone up into 3 diff groups. Hypothetically, this could have been a great alternative for such a large group. A good combat starts to lose excitement around/after round 3. You have me toying with the idea of trying combat as 3 rounds of skill challenges with each round being a count of successes and failures towards the results of the combat. The count of success vs failures determine the extreme of the results. It needs more thought, but that’s what I’m thinking about after watching the vid once. As with most if your vids, I’ll end up watching a few more times today and this week. Set an alarm for 10am on Saturdays...check. Or skill check. 😆
David Rose hahaha that’s awesome man! Thanks for the support! 💜 But YES you could totally do 2-3 rounds of this in phases with different results happening depending But wow 15 is just too much lol 8 is my “line” haha that’s almost DOUBLE
I had this happen with a group I joined at the mall before Covid happened, we were at 13. Luckily people decided to bow out on their own. We didn't break into groups
Wow this is amazing!!! I have been wanting to incorporate skill challenges, but nothing ever really felt satisfying or seemed to be designed where everyone could easily get the same amount of checks in and contribute evenly. Im running one tonight following these rules, you got yourself a sub my man
Skill Challenges are easily the best thing you’ve given us! So many situations you can use them and the mechanics are simple enough it keeps the pace up and tension high. No more trudging through slow initiative for traps and environmental hazards. Also has a cool cutscene element to it for easier monsters
I really like the idea of essentially merging the 5E group check with the 4E skill challenge to create fast-paced cinematic action. I particularly like the way you've incorporated combat and spell checks into the skill challenge in a way that is analagous to the way skill checks can be incorporated into traditional intitiative-based combat. Have you made any further developments to this idea? Have you found other DMs picking it up and using it?
I remember seeing this video come out, and had to come back to it this week. Ended the last session with the party in a tomb, having defeated a skeletal dragon that was embedded in the wall of the final room. As the dragon collapsed, I described the ground shaking with the impact, then at the far back of the room they heard a trickle of dirt fall. Then a chunk of the ceiling dropped, and the back wall of the room gave way along with the ceiling. The tomb is collapsing! We'll see you next week. Time for a one-round skill challenge. They know the way they came in, and passed one other possible exit. It's not which way they go, but can they get there! Thanks for this awesome video, DC, and for all your contributions to the community!
COACH! This is such an amazing game mechanic, so much better than the regular skill challenge! I'm definitely going to use that in my games from now on!
Something I think could be really interesting is using this *before* combat starts. For instance; say a bar fight breaks out. Before combat begins everybody gets a one round skill challenge during the initial chaos as the fight starts. Player's can use this to position themselves, take cover, sucker punch people, etc. Same could go for an ambush.
I actually used a normal skill challenge instead of combat in my most recent session, the party was facing overwhelming odds and a skill challenge let them get creative in their methodology for getting out of it.
I was just considering something similar for my next session (or so, depending how long it takes them to get to the MacGuffin). Instead of working through hordes of minor beasts, just do some skill challenges to deal with the onslaught since they could take them easily anyways but not have to worry about individual turns.
Hi! Skill Challenges sound sooo good on paper on when described, but I've attempted it with my players during the last session and it didn't went well: my players were surrounded by a horde of zombies, while they were in a clearing in the middle of a forest; the only way out was the path they took to get in there. I hoped for clever ideas, but my players didn't know what to do with their skill and abilities and just... froze. The all thing quickly turned intricate, instead of a cinematic-avengers-style scene. I tried to describe the situation around them every turn, but the warrior of the group still was confused on what to do, besides attacking. She is a Living Crucible (Grim Hollow subclass), so I suggested her to make a creative use of one of her concoctions, but she didn't came out with a good idea. The same thing happened to our Damphir Bard, he simply didn't know what to do, judging all of his abilities useless for the situation, so he kept choosing the Help Action. Do you have any suggestion to make Skill Challenge work for them? I honestly don't know why it went wrong
Whether or not that character died because of a failed roll, doesn't matter. Your shirt in this video says it all. Besides it was there roll and as you said, taking away the chance of death defeats the purpose of playing this game in the first place. nuff said. great videos DC!
I wish I watched this before I ran a scene where the party was caught in the middle of a Drow Warcamp, going into a chase scene skill challenge would have been so much better xD
Quick questions: (1) Did Arya have to do death saves? How many and when? and (2) What had you decided would happen (cost/consequences/rewards) if they had 3 fails, and 5 fails, and 0, 1 or 2 fails? would really help to fully understand this. I am going to run idea soon for either: (a) Rescue PCs from a Dark Ritual opening a portal to Hell taking place (disrupt, fight, or other) Kraul temple underground. (b) Party running for their lives, from a colony of Kraul (giant insects) after escaping Dark Ritual. I REALLY liked this video.
Man, it would be awesome if you could make a video with some play-by-play examples of the combat skill challenges especially. (I've watched all your coaching vids to the end multiple times, keep up the good work.)
Hey, this is so great! As are all of your suggestions. I will definitely use this. I have just one question because I can't find it in the video. Did you eventually mention how you would handle even numbered parties? Sorry, if I'm just to dumb to find it myself.
How do you handle actions the players believe should have no chance at failure? Like casting a spell or using a class ability that doesn't use a dice roll? For your example, I'm thinking, as the Ranger, I'd cast Fog Cloud or Spike Growth behind us to slow the pursuing horde.
You said you can wear the party down with these one round skill challenges, but I don´t see how. On a fail there is one attack to a party member or how is it working? average damage to all? what about casters, if they don´t use a spell in the challenge, will they even use one? wearing down is meant in features, hp and spellslots but for this type i don´t see how all/some those resources can be used/worn down.
MaurerGaming1 when the group fail happened when the ranger failed, I made an attack roll whoever had lower AC than what was rolled took damage too That’s one way to do it. You can have casters spend spell Slots to cast spells, use of features or Ive also has fails trigger group dex saves for damage (like a trap) or individually It all just depends on where the story goes/ what’s happening/ what would make sense
Watched a lot of your videos and planning to interstate some more home brew in my new campaign. Skill challenges are something I really like the sound of, and so might have missed it, but how does this work for an even numbered party?
The Dungeon Coach Indeed, these are really helping me with my players. I DM’d my very first session ever the other day, it was a one on one session to play out a backstory and using your advice along with others it turned out really well. My next player is gonna be in a chase scene so I need to rewatch your skill challenge video ;).
I know this video is a year old but I love everything you put out there. However I have some questions. Some rule that one round can only be faced by one "active player". The way you presented it in both videos is that anybody "can" try resolving the obstacles they are facing as a group. But my question is are they obliged to do something ? if not how do you interpret it in terms of consequences or even when the second round begins ? I want to do my first Skill Challenge within a cavern where my party is sleeping but I can't get around that question. Also how do you differentiate a spell ability check from a spell attack since both seem to use the modifier and the proficiency bonus ( and I tend to interpret them as two different skill checks)? Thank you so much for everything you do for this community !!
Question about the example with Ariah, is the DM or the players choosing what to do for each step of the challenge? If it’s players, it seems like it would get slogged down and the skill challenge would progress too slowly amd not end up at the end of the challenge by the time they’ve all chosen and completed their action. If all by the DM, is the DM choosing everything the players do? I have this question because if the players are choosing what to do, how does the DM plan the successes and failures ahead of time? I’m new at this, a thoughtful reply would help us out a lot!
The players have to choose what to do. That's what makes it roleplaying! This requires a bit of creativity on the part of the players because, unlike combat, they're not choosing from a preselected range of choices. But that's also what makes it fun! The DM's job is to clearly explain what is happening, what the players need to do, and what the consequences might be if they fail.
Do you come up with these on the fly or are they preplanned, what do your scenario plans look like? What if the hexblade decided to try something else? Or succeeded on her attack? There is just still something I am confused about with skill challenges, I just can't put my finger on it to put it into words.
So I plan the following: - What the objective of the challenge is - what happens with each amount of failures at the END (that’s all) You have to narratively describe and update things as they go, and I come up with the consequences for the failed rolls on the fly too based on what would make sense So for your question Ariah Makes that whip attack?? “She cleaves through the sliders making an opening for the group to advance through and have some breathing room as the swarm gathers” Then that changes what the barbarian might do or who might even be the next one to interject in (since there is no initiative)
@@TheDungeonCoach thanks! That's more how I was thinking they go, I just got the impression your goal for this was to drop someone for the shaman to resurrect for some reason.
I know this isn't really a question specific to this video but, how do you as a dm prep a worthy advisory for your players after giving them all the dope custom house rule and homebrew advantages you've talked about? I can come up with cool villains but I've got a lot to think about as a dm and it is difficult for me to come up with custom abilities and whatnot for villains without feeling like I'm making them too OP.
Have them be too OP! They should feel threatening and powerful (better then the inverse lol) but you can always dial back or not use some abilities once you realize you’ve gone too far. It’s a skill as a DM to see this coming and pull those punches before it’s too late THEN over time you won’t have to pull any punches and your encounters are just balanced already! 👍🏼 hope that helps!
So much straying from conventional D&D it’s almost like you’d thrive in a different game. I just recently played Lasers and Feelings, a super simplified d6 system that’s like one long skill challenge. You learn everything you need to know from the one page here: www.onesevendesign.com/laserfeelings/
How could you make a group skill challenge out of a stealth check? Wouldn't that be too slow to have tension? I feel the same way sort of with perception checks but I can see some situations where they apply
Simon in general I drop it on em (part of the franticness) But we ended that session right when they killed the number hulk, and RIGHT after they alerted the nest... and we ended there So they knew they were in for it, but not what exactly, I like to keep em in suspense
@@TheDungeonCoach mkay..asking because im in kinda similar situation atm. We ended the session where they awoke from trance a pirate captain and i was thinking of using this next session because whole crew will probably chase them. I'm asking because i usually tell all this kind of stuff at session 0. I know my players will go along with it because they thrust me but I'm a bit hesitant anyway. Gonna use it and give you a feedback.
Simon YEEESSSS PLEASE let me know how it goes! What I’ve had people have success with as DMs is send their players the video in question and that is the ice breaker to the players 👌🏼 Get em hyped, get em thinkin!
Ahh yea I didn’t have any time to post em! In general, yes because it messes with the ratio But if a group really wants to do it then YES! BUT you can definitely do this for EVEN numbered groups so there is an odd result 👍🏼
madkryme o for sure, that’s a HUGE trust thing and something I talked with them about beforehand But if that’s off the table... skill challenges instantly become less threatening BUT I 99% of the time don’t have that be a “worse case scenario”
correct me if im wrong, but this don't mean that classes like rogue and bard have by default FAR greater chances of success because of their many proficiencies and expertise? what about the other classes? whith no way to increase the skill proficency or expertice, is this still balanced?
Nicolás Villaseca Alí I’m wondering what you mean about “balanced” it’s not a combat it’s a series of skill checks. I would reframe your thinking, if they are “unbalanced” in these then they are unbalanced in the entire game when checks are made. That’s just a strength of theirs and a way for them to shine. I’ve never had any issues. Just have fun with the challenges you set and “balance it” with the DC you choose to set 👍🏼
@@TheDungeonCoach I mean with balanced this: since the proficiencies have is no way to be upgraded, outside of the rogue and bard traits, it may feel like these characters have the best chances to cover for many rounds of skill checks vs the characters that don’t have this flexibility (and can´t get better bonuses even with some saving throws, which looks like they fall more in the "Oh Sheep!" cases where they may have to make potentially desperated and deadly acts) are bound to see themselves on the need to be more creative, but not the ones with this far more open array of skills. this doubts come from the idea to use this in a long-term situation (the defence of a long city where the heroes must not only fend some enemies but also move in all the chaotic streets or a multi stage temple scape after they beat the final enemy of the chapter), maybe this is what I’m not getting? I’m mixing the concepts of like 3 videos here and i don’t know how they weight the many checks when it come to the length of the skill challenge. i looks REALLY good, but since the rule is to not use more than one skill for the challenge it seems a little hard and not different from a low level crew in some cases, like where the more combat focused characters run out of options soon (aka the fighter with no Attack and best proficiency bonus skill because he and the barb use them all; or a crew of many mages who need to cast spells but they have many limitations, despite being capable of different things). that is what I want to *learn* because this looks like a good way to set a finale for a session where everyone used many of their spells and skills and must be creative with their gear and remaining spells. If you read all of it (1) don’t feel obligated to give me an answer if you judge, I’m trying to expand this out of the apparent reach of the system so that may be the problem and (2) thanks for the attention, wish you best journey in the road Coach
Nicolás Villaseca Alí 1) totally read it because I can tell you are trying to improve upon things 2) thank you and same to you 💜 I’ve never had to be a problem or players feel like they run out of creative options and resort to attacks and spills only. Usually it ends up with him looking at their character sheet and seeing what things are fishing in and brainstorming on how they could quick use those skills in the given situation. What roads and bars have more options, and their expertise be better, yes. But I also tend to try and find one niche is my players are to that, and give out bonus rewards on level ups (bonus level up Homebrew) and give them proficieny /expertise / Extra bonuses in other skills to. So everyone has their things that they’re good at
Sean Boyll - throw in your own rolls/ Key NPC rolls? - give each player 2 checks to make - if there’s a tie make a “fate roll” where you just roll a d20 flat out in the middle of the table Hope that helps!!
Dude can you make a vid on world building, I'm gonna start running a most likely 2 year campaign and, I really want the world to be alive, complex and intriguing. But I can't tell when I should talk about the gods, or the political parties or different life styles. I would just straight up blab on about all these things. How would you do it?
Jozco Foz I would do a SHOW not tell! Have the first Town they come to have an NPC that they meet that is very religious and drops one maybe two nuggets on them, and slowly release it to them! That is quite a large topic, but I will put it on a list for sure, and see if there’s more interest on it! Thanks for the recommendation!
@@TheDungeonCoach Yeah Man, i feel like this is a great subject for any dm, not just helping the world being alive but knowing when to make players get involved in something that is not actually part of the campaign. Helping in down time too
Adam and his Nucleus hahaha I will eventually make that video of my patrons vote on it/ I want to do the follow up It is one of my more popular videos though, so maybe!!! But eventually I will for sure! Lol 😆😈😇
Are we going to get a part 2 where you actually going depth and explain what you're talking about. Most of the video was a story that's entertaining and all but if this is a rule there needs to be more structure on how to handle it. For instance the group had more failures than successes and yet they still succeeded getting out. So what was the point of having a group success versus group failure roll? It seemed that you just have five different rolls and determined how successful each individual was but not the group since it wasn't a group challenge since the group succeeded no matter what. Very mixed messages here.
“I would not have that character die if i did not already know they would end the skill challenge right in front of a shaman who could resurrect her.” Of course not, because you mollycoddle your players & give them anything & everything.
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One round skill challenge to end the effects of a triggered trap. My dungeons just got a lot more interesting. Thanks DC
Volatile Ginge DUDE!!! Wow that’s great! you just improved my games too! God I love this community!!
Wow that's awesome. Very nice.
I’ve been trying to work on packing all combat and challenges into 3 or fewer rounds. I’m about efficiency (well, fun first), and that’s why I love these videos! :)
Bob World Builder dude yes!! Break this up into two phases with different outcomes and that feels real good too!!
I think one of the reasons why ideas like this can sometimes rile up some of the dnd community is becuase of the fundamental reasons why people play dnd. Some play it as a strategy war game, where they build characters to optimise their chances of beating challenges set by the DM. Other players just see the rules and dice as a way of delivering uncertainty in a narrative, and focus on the drama and story. While both are valid I prefer more of the second approach. These one round skill challenges are great ways of getting to that drama without getting bogged down. Players who prefer the first way might be frustrated that everything can go wrong based on so few roles and can bypass their clever build ideas.
One way I might be tempted to change it further is by arbitrarily giving +1 (or maybe evenr -1) bonuses based on the creativity of the action the players suggest. While this approach would bog down combat I think it would be easy to implement in this context. Advantage is quite a huge bonus and it would be nice to be a little more precise, and therefore make the players feel a little more rewarded for their creativity and strategy.
This is a great narrative tool to keep the story moving without removing RP potential. I like it. It makes each player feel unique as well. I’ve been running a Valor Bard in a recent campaign and I have sometimes wondered why the game isn’t more engineered for my Charisma heavy Bard to use that Charisma to “talk” his way in/out of a situation like this, instead of just failing because it was combat or RP that didn’t let the Bard flex his charisma muscles.
Doug Cheesman YES! You gotta sculpt the campaign around your players! That’s huge!
Wow, this a great idea for so many reasons. For Pelor's sake people, Like this video! I need to see how this ends!
Haha thanks Ted! Cliffhanger!!
First of all, I love all your videos on skill challenges. They're so helpful.
But also, this idea is so cool! I love the idea of taking the average and doing it in one round instead of the traditional format so that every roll matters. This is especially important in larger groups since you're more likely to hit 3 fails before someone gets to go.
Thank you for sharing!
xoxlyss that’s exactly why I wanted to share this! So many useful applications, thank you!
This gave me some great ideas how to handle environmental threats as a random encounter. Every personal fail causes a problem for that character but they'll get to roll a save DC against it. If half or more fail they all will suffer a penalty. That penalty can be reduced, but not completely ignored, by a successful save DC. No need to fear that everything bogs down as the players can't come up with the seventh or eight roll they need to get enough successes.
Jesus! I actually cried for Ariah! Why are you not DMing an actual play? I want to watch!
Corinne Kimball really?? Wow! All 5 players were crying at the table too! Huge session!
I am wanting to start playing again once I can get ahead! 👍🏼
I can imagine the feeling at the table! The way you decided it was so impactful.
I think if you did an actual play video/podcast it would show real, in the moment, examples of all your fun home brew rules!
And, I just joined your patreon!
I love this! I should have used this in a vines trap my player stumbled into afew years back. My one revision I might done is maybe allow an overtime in case the party fails on the first round.
Say the party stumbles into a tar pit trap. Ranger and fighter scurry out, but the wizard, cleric, and rogue fail. Those that failed now have a lair effect slapped on them alongside the previous consequence. Next round, situations more dire but also only three are left in the tar. Clock resets, but because only three are left in the pit only two successes are required and those that escaped can make checks to help the others get out.
This sounds very similar to a discussion I had on Reddit about how to make skill challenges great again. One user said that their home brew version was based on getting a certain number of successes within a certain number of rounds, instead of X successes before 3 failures, since that classic version discourages players from contributing unless they feel confident in succeeding. Going by X successes within Y rounds encourages everyone to have at it. This sounds similar to that, but it’s one single round. Great idea DC!
Sebastian G thanks man, and thanks for sharing that idea I’ll have to play around with it in my head but I love skill challenge variants!!
Another amazing video! This kind of reminds me of the way Matt Mercer runs group stealth checks, with more suspense built in! Love it :)
Yea totally! I’d love to see him run this system!
This came just in time!
Ironically, my group just fled a crumbling temple (chased by spiders).
They failed the skill challenge to escape so based on who was behind and ahead, they had advantage and disadvantage. 2 ended up escaping, 2 were trapped under the rubble.
Guess what’s starting my next session off!
One round skill challenge getting them out of the rubble!
JGook haha woah! So similar! And YES! I love it! I probably get carried away and have to catch myself from doing these too often lol
The Dungeon Coach Ha! That is my worry! Their next step is to climb down the cliff side whilst this temple just keeps collapsing (another skill challenge type encounter). (May give you a run for your money for killer DM!)
This system reminds me very much of the Star Wars RPG where you could pass or fail a check, but something bad or good could also happen, depending on the snazzy dice outcome. BUT MUCH LESS CLUNKY! Great stuff!
How would you run the cliff encounter? I’ve got a list of possible threats and opportunities to entice or make them stop and think when climbing down to just avoid the ‘I climb’ button
Thanks for this! As you said on another comment of mine, it's a perfect way to use a skill challenge for my larger group - I'll definitely be using it when we start up again.
Richard Cartwright YES I remember that! This is the video I was working on! Hah perfect then!
One round skill challenges would've been so useful last session! My party was getting raided by pirates(sea campaign) and this would've been super useful when dealing with the crew and getting to the captain and bosun to start the mini Boss battle! Thanks coach!
Francisco Tapia ahhh I should have made this video last week!! Haha next time! 👍🏼 cool campaign!
@@TheDungeonCoach no worries! This will be a good mechanic for a lot of ocean encounters in the future!
Great vid as always! At one point about 8 years ago I had a group that grew to 15 players. Some experienced and some new. A few were kids of players that were just getting old enough to start learning to play dnd. A single round of combat was 45 mins at a minimum. It was horrible and I broke everyone up into 3 diff groups. Hypothetically, this could have been a great alternative for such a large group. A good combat starts to lose excitement around/after round 3. You have me toying with the idea of trying combat as 3 rounds of skill challenges with each round being a count of successes and failures towards the results of the combat. The count of success vs failures determine the extreme of the results. It needs more thought, but that’s what I’m thinking about after watching the vid once. As with most if your vids, I’ll end up watching a few more times today and this week. Set an alarm for 10am on Saturdays...check. Or skill check. 😆
David Rose hahaha that’s awesome man! Thanks for the support! 💜
But YES you could totally do 2-3 rounds of this in phases with different results happening depending
But wow 15 is just too much lol
8 is my “line” haha that’s almost DOUBLE
I had this happen with a group I joined at the mall before Covid happened, we were at 13. Luckily people decided to bow out on their own. We didn't break into groups
That was EXACTLY what I needed for my upcoming session! Figuring out chases/escapes mechanics is tough!
me too! my very next session.
I found your page from a video you did with Treantmonk. This concept it fantastic im going to pitch the one round skill challenge to my group tonight!
alex daum hey yea? Thank you for that! I love them and it’s definitely stepped up my D&D game! And Treantmonk is an awesome dude! Was a fun Collab!!
Wow this is amazing!!! I have been wanting to incorporate skill challenges, but nothing ever really felt satisfying or seemed to be designed where everyone could easily get the same amount of checks in and contribute evenly. Im running one tonight following these rules, you got yourself a sub my man
Rafael Jimenez 2 that’s so awesome! Perfect timing, do you got a let me know how it goes!Welcome to the crew!
Skill Challenges are easily the best thing you’ve given us! So many situations you can use them and the mechanics are simple enough it keeps the pace up and tension high. No more trudging through slow initiative for traps and environmental hazards. Also has a cool cutscene element to it for easier monsters
The frequency of uploads and quality of your content is just fantastic, DC.
Marduk YES! I’m trying to get ahead and then I can start streaming too! But like you said I want to be consistent!
Thank you for that!
Excellent video! Skill challenges are a real favorite!
Thank you I love them so much I try not to do them too much lol
I like your skill challenge videos. I hope you get to do another one. I’m about to run my first so these were very helpful thank you
Pilot Sun1234 awesome! Good luck!!
I really like the idea of essentially merging the 5E group check with the 4E skill challenge to create fast-paced cinematic action. I particularly like the way you've incorporated combat and spell checks into the skill challenge in a way that is analagous to the way skill checks can be incorporated into traditional intitiative-based combat. Have you made any further developments to this idea? Have you found other DMs picking it up and using it?
I remember seeing this video come out, and had to come back to it this week.
Ended the last session with the party in a tomb, having defeated a skeletal dragon that was embedded in the wall of the final room. As the dragon collapsed, I described the ground shaking with the impact, then at the far back of the room they heard a trickle of dirt fall. Then a chunk of the ceiling dropped, and the back wall of the room gave way along with the ceiling.
The tomb is collapsing! We'll see you next week.
Time for a one-round skill challenge. They know the way they came in, and passed one other possible exit. It's not which way they go, but can they get there!
Thanks for this awesome video, DC, and for all your contributions to the community!
COACH!
This is such an amazing game mechanic, so much better than the regular skill challenge!
I'm definitely going to use that in my games from now on!
Beyond The Screen YEEAAAA do it! Glad to add another tool to your DM belt!
Something I think could be really interesting is using this *before* combat starts. For instance; say a bar fight breaks out. Before combat begins everybody gets a one round skill challenge during the initial chaos as the fight starts. Player's can use this to position themselves, take cover, sucker punch people, etc. Same could go for an ambush.
I actually used a normal skill challenge instead of combat in my most recent session, the party was facing overwhelming odds and a skill challenge let them get creative in their methodology for getting out of it.
Phillip Cunliffe love it! And they aren’t sitting there for 2-3 hours too lol!
I was just considering something similar for my next session (or so, depending how long it takes them to get to the MacGuffin). Instead of working through hordes of minor beasts, just do some skill challenges to deal with the onslaught since they could take them easily anyways but not have to worry about individual turns.
Nathan Wolke that’s exactly the scenario!!
Way to knock this out out of the park! Must have been a Challange and took skill to pull it off!
HC Magic I see what you did there HC! Thanks man!!
Ive been DMing for a group of 2, man I want more now just for this! Otherwise it would just be "both of you make a check" lol
Richard James hahah “both of you” yes!!! Get that third player in there!!
Hi! Skill Challenges sound sooo good on paper on when described, but I've attempted it with my players during the last session and it didn't went well: my players were surrounded by a horde of zombies, while they were in a clearing in the middle of a forest; the only way out was the path they took to get in there. I hoped for clever ideas, but my players didn't know what to do with their skill and abilities and just... froze. The all thing quickly turned intricate, instead of a cinematic-avengers-style scene. I tried to describe the situation around them every turn, but the warrior of the group still was confused on what to do, besides attacking. She is a Living Crucible (Grim Hollow subclass), so I suggested her to make a creative use of one of her concoctions, but she didn't came out with a good idea. The same thing happened to our Damphir Bard, he simply didn't know what to do, judging all of his abilities useless for the situation, so he kept choosing the Help Action. Do you have any suggestion to make Skill Challenge work for them? I honestly don't know why it went wrong
Whether or not that character died because of a failed roll, doesn't matter. Your shirt in this video says it all. Besides it was there roll and as you said, taking away the chance of death defeats the purpose of playing this game in the first place. nuff said. great videos DC!
Great video DC! I have 9 players in my group and I will try a one round skill challenge in our next session. Thanks!
Michael Shoen PLEASE let me know how it goes!! I really want to know!!
No like for real!
What you describe sounds more like a complexity 1 skill challenge. Still glad to see more skill challenge content on RUclips for 5e.
How to D&D heck yea! I remember watching your skill challenge video too!
@@TheDungeonCoach How do you feel about a character gaining success with the clever use of a spell rather than requiring a skill check to be made?
I wish I watched this before I ran a scene where the party was caught in the middle of a Drow Warcamp, going into a chase scene skill challenge would have been so much better xD
Ahhhh I was too late for ya! Now you can spice up the next one!
@@TheDungeonCoach That's the plan! :)
I love it. I can't wait to try this out in my next game.
Joseph Dellavecchia yeeeees dude, always love these!
Quick questions:
(1) Did Arya have to do death saves? How many and when? and
(2) What had you decided would happen (cost/consequences/rewards) if they had 3 fails, and 5 fails, and 0, 1 or 2 fails?
would really help to fully understand this.
I am going to run idea soon for either:
(a) Rescue PCs from a Dark Ritual opening a portal to Hell taking place (disrupt, fight, or other) Kraul temple underground.
(b) Party running for their lives, from a colony of Kraul (giant insects) after escaping Dark Ritual.
I REALLY liked this video.
Man, it would be awesome if you could make a video with some play-by-play examples of the combat skill challenges especially. (I've watched all your coaching vids to the end multiple times, keep up the good work.)
Sean Boyll this one was “kinda combat” but I could totally do a mass combat example with it in the next video!!
@@TheDungeonCoach please do
Leave it to an athletic coach to use lyrics from my high school basketball hype soundtrack in that intro. I see you, coach!
Alex Fikar I literally went to go get the clip but didn’t wanna get hit with a copywrite lol
That song is my JAM!!
The Dungeon Coach oh ya that was on the repeat list, among others, all through high school and college basketball and rugby seasons.
Alex Fikar hahah NIIIIICE so much Hype!
Amazing video Coach!
deaf strike thank you for always being there man!!
Hey, this is so great! As are all of your suggestions. I will definitely use this. I have just one question because I can't find it in the video. Did you eventually mention how you would handle even numbered parties? Sorry, if I'm just to dumb to find it myself.
Cheers DC - Love skill challenges
Will Carter thanks Will! I’ve done three videos on em now! They’re the best!!
Sweet expression on the skill challenge.
Leodous Kyron these are fun stories to tell!
Dude sick video!!! You have to tell the second part of the story in another resurrection video!
Joe!! (The Gnome Warlock from the story)
Hey bro! Haha YES because YOU were one of the most epic parts of it!!
Love your vids man
Unsummon hey thanks! I try and make em different and creative!
I’d love to see an RPG based around one round skill challenges.
I think they are honestly the future of RPGs!!
These ideas are too good! Stealing all of them! :D
DEW IT!!!
How do you handle actions the players believe should have no chance at failure? Like casting a spell or using a class ability that doesn't use a dice roll? For your example, I'm thinking, as the Ranger, I'd cast Fog Cloud or Spike Growth behind us to slow the pursuing horde.
Check Pathfinder 2e chase rules. It's just like this but build-in into the system.
Oh yeah, Looking forward to that next one.
Hell yeah wanna see part 2
Jozco Foz Hellz Yea!! We’ll see how the video does!!
Great modification to the skill challenge mechanic
Skill challenges seem like ICRPG 2e's target number system
Bright Skeleton I’ve never heard of that! What’s the IC stand for??
@@TheDungeonCoach Index card; product of the mad scientist over at channel Runehammer.
AdeptScholar ahhhh thank you!
If it isn’t their lives on the line then it’s someone else but the challenge is gonna be life or death
Haha I thought it was funny that the Hexblade's name was Ariah. My first ever AL character was a Hexblade named Ariae, pronounced the same way.
You said you can wear the party down with these one round skill challenges, but I don´t see how. On a fail there is one attack to a party member or how is it working? average damage to all? what about casters, if they don´t use a spell in the challenge, will they even use one? wearing down is meant in features, hp and spellslots but for this type i don´t see how all/some those resources can be used/worn down.
MaurerGaming1 when the group fail happened when the ranger failed, I made an attack roll whoever had lower AC than what was rolled took damage too
That’s one way to do it.
You can have casters spend spell
Slots to cast spells, use of features or Ive also has fails trigger group dex saves for damage (like a trap) or individually
It all just depends on where the story goes/ what’s happening/ what would make sense
Watched a lot of your videos and planning to interstate some more home brew in my new campaign. Skill challenges are something I really like the sound of, and so might have missed it, but how does this work for an even numbered party?
Goooood morning coach
Wyatt Wear it’s a great morning! Gotta love Saturday video drop days!!
The Dungeon Coach Indeed, these are really helping me with my players. I DM’d my very first session ever the other day, it was a one on one session to play out a backstory and using your advice along with others it turned out really well. My next player is gonna be in a chase scene so I need to rewatch your skill challenge video ;).
I know this video is a year old but I love everything you put out there. However I have some questions. Some rule that one round can only be faced by one "active player". The way you presented it in both videos is that anybody "can" try resolving the obstacles they are facing as a group. But my question is are they obliged to do something ? if not how do you interpret it in terms of consequences or even when the second round begins ? I want to do my first Skill Challenge within a cavern where my party is sleeping but I can't get around that question. Also how do you differentiate a spell ability check from a spell attack since both seem to use the modifier and the proficiency bonus ( and I tend to interpret them as two different skill checks)?
Thank you so much for everything you do for this community !!
Also when the spiders shot webs at the gnome did you call for a counter save again, and that's how he got out of the way? Or was that just narrative?
Yes I asked the gnome for a dex save and if he failed, that’s one more negative condition they’d have to deal with 😆
@@TheDungeonCoach thanks for replying to my questions! Love the work you're doing
@@TheDungeonCoach joined your patreon family too!
Brandon just realized it was you lol!
I still want to see the outcome video for the resurrection challenge lol
Sean Bryan this video did pretty well! I definitely have it on the list! 😆
The cliffhanger is real!
Question about the example with Ariah, is the DM or the players choosing what to do for each step of the challenge? If it’s players, it seems like it would get slogged down and the skill challenge would progress too slowly amd not end up at the end of the challenge by the time they’ve all chosen and completed their action. If all by the DM, is the DM choosing everything the players do? I have this question because if the players are choosing what to do, how does the DM plan the successes and failures ahead of time? I’m new at this, a thoughtful reply would help us out a lot!
The players have to choose what to do. That's what makes it roleplaying! This requires a bit of creativity on the part of the players because, unlike combat, they're not choosing from a preselected range of choices. But that's also what makes it fun! The DM's job is to clearly explain what is happening, what the players need to do, and what the consequences might be if they fail.
Do you come up with these on the fly or are they preplanned, what do your scenario plans look like? What if the hexblade decided to try something else? Or succeeded on her attack? There is just still something I am confused about with skill challenges, I just can't put my finger on it to put it into words.
So I plan the following:
- What the objective of the challenge is
- what happens with each amount of failures at the END
(that’s all)
You have to narratively describe and update things as they go, and I come up with the consequences for the failed rolls on the fly too based on what would make sense
So for your question
Ariah Makes that whip attack??
“She cleaves through the sliders making an opening for the group to advance through and have some breathing room as the swarm gathers”
Then that changes what the barbarian might do or who might even be the next one to interject in (since there is no initiative)
@@TheDungeonCoach thanks! That's more how I was thinking they go, I just got the impression your goal for this was to drop someone for the shaman to resurrect for some reason.
Brandon ooooo lol no, that was only at 4 fails and lower
But I set the DC at 14 and it should have been EASY for them lol
I know this isn't really a question specific to this video but, how do you as a dm prep a worthy advisory for your players after giving them all the dope custom house rule and homebrew advantages you've talked about? I can come up with cool villains but I've got a lot to think about as a dm and it is difficult for me to come up with custom abilities and whatnot for villains without feeling like I'm making them too OP.
Have them be too OP! They should feel threatening and powerful (better then the inverse lol) but you can always dial back or not use some abilities once you realize you’ve gone too far. It’s a skill as a DM to see this coming and pull those punches before it’s too late
THEN over time you won’t have to pull any punches and your encounters are just balanced already! 👍🏼 hope that helps!
So much straying from conventional D&D it’s almost like you’d thrive in a different game. I just recently played Lasers and Feelings, a super simplified d6 system that’s like one long skill challenge. You learn everything you need to know from the one page here:
www.onesevendesign.com/laserfeelings/
How could you make a group skill challenge out of a stealth check? Wouldn't that be too slow to have tension? I feel the same way sort of with perception checks but I can see some situations where they apply
I gotta say, killing a player because they failed *one* check, and then there party failed 3 more...
I as that player would be pissed
Question. Did you tell them about this skill challenge before the session or you dropped that when it was happening?
Simon in general I drop it on em (part of the franticness)
But we ended that session right when they killed the number hulk, and RIGHT after they alerted the nest... and we ended there
So they knew they were in for it, but not what exactly, I like to keep em in suspense
@@TheDungeonCoach mkay..asking because im in kinda similar situation atm. We ended the session where they awoke from trance a pirate captain and i was thinking of using this next session because whole crew will probably chase them. I'm asking because i usually tell all this kind of stuff at session 0. I know my players will go along with it because they thrust me but I'm a bit hesitant anyway. Gonna use it and give you a feedback.
Simon YEEESSSS PLEASE let me know how it goes!
What I’ve had people have success with as DMs is send their players the video in question and that is the ice breaker to the players 👌🏼
Get em hyped, get em thinkin!
For this challenge do you disallow the help action as an option? I don't see the notes posted like you usually do
Ahh yea I didn’t have any time to post em!
In general, yes because it messes with the ratio
But if a group really wants to do it then YES!
BUT you can definitely do this for EVEN numbered groups so there is an odd result 👍🏼
Am I the only one that felt killing a character in a skill challenge would really upset a player?
madkryme o for sure, that’s a HUGE trust thing and something I talked with them about beforehand
But if that’s off the table... skill challenges instantly become less threatening
BUT I 99% of the time don’t have that be a “worse case scenario”
correct me if im wrong, but this don't mean that classes like rogue and bard have by default FAR greater chances of success because of their many proficiencies and expertise? what about the other classes? whith no way to increase the skill proficency or expertice, is this still balanced?
Nicolás Villaseca Alí I’m wondering what you mean about “balanced” it’s not a combat it’s a series of skill checks. I would reframe your thinking, if they are “unbalanced” in these then they are unbalanced in the entire game when checks are made.
That’s just a strength of theirs and a way for them to shine. I’ve never had any issues. Just have fun with the challenges you set and “balance it” with the DC you choose to set 👍🏼
@@TheDungeonCoach
I mean with balanced this:
since the proficiencies have is no way to be upgraded, outside of the rogue and bard traits, it may feel like these characters have the best chances to cover for many rounds of skill checks vs the characters that don’t have this flexibility (and can´t get better bonuses even with some saving throws, which looks like they fall more in the "Oh Sheep!" cases where they may have to make potentially desperated and deadly acts) are bound to see themselves on the need to be more creative, but not the ones with this far more open array of skills. this doubts come from the idea to use this in a long-term situation (the defence of a long city where the heroes must not only fend some enemies but also move in all the chaotic streets or a multi stage temple scape after they beat the final enemy of the chapter), maybe this is what I’m not getting? I’m mixing the concepts of like 3 videos here and i don’t know how they weight the many checks when it come to the length of the skill challenge.
i looks REALLY good, but since the rule is to not use more than one skill for the challenge it seems a little hard and not different from a low level crew in some cases, like where the more combat focused characters run out of options soon (aka the fighter with no Attack and best proficiency bonus skill because he and the barb use them all; or a crew of many mages who need to cast spells but they have many limitations, despite being capable of different things). that is what I want to *learn* because this looks like a good way to set a finale for a session where everyone used many of their spells and skills and must be creative with their gear and remaining spells.
If you read all of it (1) don’t feel obligated to give me an answer if you judge, I’m trying to expand this out of the apparent reach of the system so that may be the problem and (2) thanks for the attention, wish you best journey in the road Coach
Nicolás Villaseca Alí 1) totally read it because I can tell you are trying to improve upon things 2) thank you and same to you 💜
I’ve never had to be a problem or players feel like they run out of creative options and resort to attacks and spills only. Usually it ends up with him looking at their character sheet and seeing what things are fishing in and brainstorming on how they could quick use those skills in the given situation. What roads and bars have more options, and their expertise be better, yes. But I also tend to try and find one niche is my players are to that, and give out bonus rewards on level ups (bonus level up Homebrew) and give them proficieny /expertise / Extra bonuses in other skills to. So everyone has their things that they’re good at
What if you have an even if players and it’s a draw?
One final check by one PC who volunteered or the DM rolls a flat d20 infront of the table 👍🏼
Would love to play in one of your games
Matthew Barker I’m working on trying to have the time to run games with people! So that’s my goal!! 💜
Any advice on how to keep these challenges narratively interesting for extremely small party skill challenges? 1 or 2 players?
Sean Boyll
- throw in your own rolls/ Key NPC rolls?
- give each player 2 checks to make
- if there’s a tie make a “fate roll” where you just roll a d20 flat out in the middle of the table
Hope that helps!!
Did I finally get a first!?!
Volatile Ginge haha I think Doug got ya! But you got second! Lol
Ah well, the dream lives on
Dude can you make a vid on world building, I'm gonna start running a most likely 2 year campaign and, I really want the world to be alive, complex and intriguing. But I can't tell when I should talk about the gods, or the political parties or different life styles. I would just straight up blab on about all these things. How would you do it?
Jozco Foz I would do a SHOW not tell!
Have the first Town they come to have an NPC that they meet that is very religious and drops one maybe two nuggets on them, and slowly release it to them! That is quite a large topic, but I will put it on a list for sure, and see if there’s more interest on it! Thanks for the recommendation!
@@TheDungeonCoach Yeah Man, i feel like this is a great subject for any dm, not just helping the world being alive but knowing when to make players get involved in something that is not actually part of the campaign. Helping in down time too
Skill Challenge v. the Algodragon
I don't really understand this, what's the difference between a normal skill challenge other then not failing after 3 fails?
Does the likes being 15 shy mean we're stuck on that cliffhanger or you gonna throw ya bois a bone?
Adam and his Nucleus hahaha I will eventually make that video of my patrons vote on it/ I want to do the follow up
It is one of my more popular videos though, so maybe!!! But eventually I will for sure! Lol 😆😈😇
Skill challenge flump yeah!
Haha cuz they’re so awesome!
Skill challenge!
The Orpheus haha next week! You’re ready! Thanks for staying till the end!
@@TheDungeonCoach Ofc, I am just starting out and I love your channel! Thank you so much and keep up the good work
The Orpheus thanks man, welcome to the channel!!
Am I the only one that got iritated that he kept calling spiders insects... They're Arachnids! 🙄🤣
beep beep beep beep beeeep
BEEEEEEEEP!
Are we going to get a part 2 where you actually going depth and explain what you're talking about. Most of the video was a story that's entertaining and all but if this is a rule there needs to be more structure on how to handle it.
For instance the group had more failures than successes and yet they still succeeded getting out. So what was the point of having a group success versus group failure roll?
It seemed that you just have five different rolls and determined how successful each individual was but not the group since it wasn't a group challenge since the group succeeded no matter what.
Very mixed messages here.
Woof
Admiral Stoic Rum RAAAWWRRR!!
@@TheDungeonCoach *Pinches those Cheeks*
“I would not have that character die if i did not already know they would end the skill challenge right in front of a shaman who could resurrect her.” Of course not, because you mollycoddle your players & give them anything & everything.
And subscribed
He talks like he’s constantly out of breath.
Take a breath. Relax. stop squinting. and Calmly say that again please.