Monster Hunter Rise: Why I Hate Rise Hunting Horn | Damage First, Music Second
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2024
- If you love Rise Hunting Horn that's great! It's just nowhere near the weapon I loved.
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CHAPTERS
0:00 Intro
1:46 Song System
4:15 Recitals/Encores
6:53 Hunters Just Wanna Have Fun
7:26 Weapon Impact
9:38 The Weapon Nobody Asked For
12:02 The End! 
Игры
The new hunting horn is a completely new weapon... almost. Honestly I'd love it much more if they took this "dancing weapon" concept and made it its own new weapon, and brought the old HH back. Having both would be great because I do enjoy the new HH, but it shouldnt have come at the cost of losing the one we know and love.
Lol Hunting Maracas
@@Phoenix8764 that exact thought is what I'm imagining lol
Pair of maces (or a 2 ended mace) that are just fuckin maracas or other percussive instruments.
@Jazzy Ginger Tonfas but they are wind instruments, it's a risker dual blades (because you have to play music by punching the monster to get basic buffs) with impact and ko along with weaker but more spammable short range music buffs. Each attack plays a distinct note and they transition into each other and make one of them have a parry property(l2/lt). And that move if held charges a ground slam that when released knocks back the monster and launches the Windtonfa (Windfonfa? Windflute? Idk.) user into the air. The skill switch abilities would probably revolve around the air.
Then we can keep the hunting horn slowerbuffs. Calculating and methodical Good positioning, big damage, big buff.
Melody Blades
I would LOVE if we kept both. Have one be a horn, and one be like.... A drum maybe?
In any case, let HH have the big big buffs, and the fast horn do more DPS, but have significantly weaker buffs as well. That way, we get diversity in musical weapons, and don't have to really make any cuts or decisions.
I personally love rises HH far more than OG, but as someone else said, as a hammer main, I hate that we lost an entire weapons identity to make that happen.
As a hammer main I weep for your loss, brother. We were never meant to compete for headroom but they made us do it
maybe the developers thought it would get people to stop calling it a "support" weapon if it trips your teammates more :P
*whistles in sticky bowgun*
Don't worry I'm sure there is plenty of room when the monster is already koed.
@@LucasTigy2 ahahahahaha
@@failegion7828 isn't it weird that a sword and shield can ko a monster more consistently than hammer and hunting horn?
@@seorwhite3333 xD its insane. Especially considering lbg, hbg, bow (exhaust + switch power shot) and sns have better ko potential than hammer . Technically glaive (ko + better paralysis proc rate) And dual blades (master of melee paralysis) also beat hammer and HH in the CC department as well.
HH at least got team buffs and a hyper armor wirebug skill going for it.
Hammer? Uh... I think I see more lance bros than hammer bros.
This is the same argument my wife gave me when they changed hunting horn from freedom 2 to what it became in 3U. Back then, you had to switch to concert stance to play music. You couldn't walk or run in the concert stance, but you could use directional attacks to evade while playing your notes to activate a buff with your recital at the end. I couldn't make sense of it, but she said it was like a beautiful, intricate, tactical dance you had to master to stay alive, play, and fight all at once. When they got rid of recital stance and integrated it and all if its moves into the normal stance, allowing you to gather notes while fighting, then stopping only to buff, i thought it made it much easier and reasonable to play with. She, on the otherhand, said they gutted the weapon, made it nothing more than a fancy hammer, and she quit. Hunting Horn hasn't been right since 2, she says.
I have all but forgotten about this! It was the reason I picked up the HH in the first place. Being slow was never a problem for me, I was playing GS since the first MH. I thought it was such a cool concept when the, "preform to live" concept clicked. Looking back current HH is kinda... watered down and we will more than likely never have that style again.
I remember this and it was so painful to try and play songs in those games. It could have up to 4 notes with individual notes taking up to 2 seconds to play + the time to do the moves to switch to that note, and you might need to play the song twice, meaning that songs could take a good 20 seconds to play with all their animations.
I wanted to love the weapon, but unless you were in 4 player co-op it was near impossible to actually *play* in a fight.
Hunting Horn in Freedom Unite felt like one of the Charge Blade stereotype people talk about, you REALLY have to read to learn how to use the weapon because the note buffs aren't accessible in the start menu, you have to read and memorize it from the Hunter's Compendium by the bed.
I am very happy that P3rd improved upon this by adding the note combinations on the start menu. And made Hunting Horn a bit easier to get into by removing the recital mode. I had no idea how to use the recital mode when I tried it because I was so used to P3rd's Hunting Horn lmao.
Concert stance was done away with because monsters moved faster so it wasn't a wise option to keep it as is. The same reason why they changed it in Rise. But as the video says, it doesn't fit the weapon
I've been learning mhfZZ(mh2 style) hh since last week. Got me quite confused at first. P
I really liked how in older titles the horn’s moves were all pretty specific. Knowing which moves to use to reach certain hitpoints on a monster was really satisfying
Second Generation horn will always be the best. Capcom, please bring back recital mode
@@gobbogimbo5364 I tried Hunting Horn in FU since I really enjoyed it in P3rd and man it was so different, it's crazy LOL.
those deliberate moves from the old HH also helped with repositioning. some of my most satisfying moments have been using the backwards swing or recital to smack someone while simultaneously getting out of their way. it felt way more like "dancing" with the monster than any of the new, flashy moves.
also, i'm pretty sure they nerfed some songs
This. The hunting horn should always be about dancing and repositionning.
the issue isnt the hh design its the fundamental design choice of rise combat. youre meant to evade through monster attacks with silkbind
THIS IS EXACTLY HOW I FELT! I've had so many moments in world where I just barely survived attacks by predicting the monster's move and recitaling just in the nick of time, when I first watched the hunting horn trailer I thought that magnificent trio would at least allow the same thing but was pretty disappointed when it didn't
@@kidcharmander3501it gives i frames
HH in Rise has that too? Multiple moves that move you around while stacking notes for songs? Jesus, did no one play Rise here?
Part of why old Hunting Horn felt so tactical was because each of its 8 normal attacks serves a unique role that isn't just "puts a certain color note on the staff" or "is the next attack in the combo". Forward Smash is a basic attack with no extraordinary properties. Left and Right Swing have diagonal hit boxes, allowing them to hit a monster's head from certain angles even when there is another body part in the way. Overhead Smash is slow, but always hits the head if it's in range regardless of what body part collides with first. Flourish lets you put two notes on the staff quickly and can also be used as a fast poke by canceling the attack after the first hit. Backward Strike moves you backwards and hits extremely high. Hilt Stab is a fast attack that can put any note on the staff, bypassing the need to use a slower attack and serving as a bridge if you want to repeat the same attack quickly. Echo Attack deals a ton of damage (and a ton of elemental damage, finally making elemental weapons viable). Each attack is distinct enough from the others that at any given time or place, there is usually an option that is distinctly more suitable than the others and the player has the ability to immediately use that option.
In order to make the attack animations flow smoothly into each other in Rise, they had to implement fixed combo paths. In Iceborne, you could use any attack other than Hilt Stab and Echo Attack from idle, and in the middle of a combo you could use any of your 8 attacks except for the one you just used. In Rise, you still have 6 of your now 9 normal attacks available from idle, but in the middle of a combo, you only have 3 of your 9 attacks available as the next attack in the combo. Additionally, because your options in the middle of a combo are so restricted, they also had to make sure that each attack had to be "ordinary"; if an attack had extraordinary properties, those properties couldn't be allowed to interfere with a combo. Because of this, Backward Strike is no longer able to be used at all in the middle of a combo, and the new attacks all just hit whatever is in front of you (though Crush and Double Swing do have the convenient property of allowing you to turn your character). The result is that every attack feels the same and is simply a means to put a certain color note on the staff or is just the next attack in the combo.
What they did to the Hunting Horn's normal attacks in Rise is comparable to removing all of the bowguns' ammo options and replacing them with 6 different variations of Normal Ammo.
Also, I find it frustratingly ironic that the game that finally lets you draw into any note is the game where the feature is pointless.
Yes, this is what I’ve always been saying to my friends. Each move was a tool in the hunting horns kit that fit a purpose, unlike in rise where the moves rival dual blade levels of spam
Didn't Backward Strike also have the ability to launch allies for aerial strikes, albeit far more inconsistently than similar options from Great Sword or the Axe Mode for Switch Axe? I feel like I was able to do that every now and again back in MH4 or Generations, but I could be mis-remembering it since Generations was around the time I started getting into cutting weapons...
@@grimms-vi1874 I swear I remember it being able to launch as well.
backward strike can be used after the forward slam (the right hook button). other than that completely agree.
@@DevilJhoMama Backward Strike being able to be comboed into was added in Sunbreak and didn't exist in the base game.
They also reintroduced using a directional input to pick one of two moves to combo into, but specifically only for Backward Strike. Why get rid of this feature only to add it back in, but only for one attack?
Why not just map every attack to a distinct input in Sunbreak similar to how it was before? Such a mapping would be pretty easy to make with Rise's move set:
X: Left Swing
↑+X: Forward Slam
Combo ↓+X: Multi-Crush
A: Right Swing
↑+A: Crush
Combo ↓+A: Kick-Up (if the weapon ends in front of the player, Crush otherwise)
Idle X+A: Backward Strike
Combo X+A: Overhead Smash
Idle ↑+X+A: Overhead Smash
Combo ↑+X+A: Double Swing
Combo ↓+X+A: Backward Strike
This is less confusing (even with the slight weirdness in the X+A commands), gives the player more freedom, and only comes at the expense of possibly having some awkward animation blending.
What if they had two separate versions of the hunting horn similarly to how charge blade has both impact phials and elementals? A string of text saying “moderato” to symbolize the horn is old style and another saying “allegro” to make it play without recitals, but with considerably less damage output than the slow counterpart
You would need pretyy drastic differencies to make that work. This could probably be better addressed with two different variants of the weapon, kinda like what we have with heavy and light bowgun.
Basically "I'm okay with the new hunting horn as long as the old one is preserver as well," I'm down with that.
The new hunting horn is fun for a while, but its basically lesser hammer and it doesn't really feel like you're playing support, because you're not, its just a by product of playing a big club.
I can accept without any effort the existence of a more simple/aggro oriented HH as long my version exists. I dont care about power level; just let me make meaty angular hits and reposition myself (battledance)... Ah, and make recitals/encores ♥️
Moderato allegro smth smth idk i don't play music
Bow mains rise up
@@joelmichaelviado1226 HH is not lesser hammer. Its hammer but better in every way now.
i got into hunting horn because the idea of playing some sick riffs over the face of an unconscious monster seemed absolutely hilarious to me and it quickly became one of, if not, my favorite weapons. the fact that i can't do that in rise makes me extremely sad.
It just seems it lost it's identity in translation..
you can still do that just its done differently now and its not riffs now not that it ever should of been doing that as a horn if it was a guitar sure but not a horn
@@blazikenowen A bunch of hunting horns are guitars.
@@Beanpolr well they are hunting horns in the form of guitars but would be great to see an actual guitar weapon that could do riffs where the hunting horn guitars can't
@@blazikenowen I mean, that's literally what the guitar hunting horns do. They still function the same, they just play guitar riffs instead
It’s a double shame because I felt like Iceborne’s rendition was the best one yet. I liked the play style enough before, I just got bored with not having many unique attack options aside from the admittedly fun 180 degree backswing tech. Iceborne added the spin, which was pretty much all I ever wanted and then some. I played a lot of HH in Iceborne. I feel like instead of dropping recitals, they could’ve just made them faster or something.
yeahhh, if they literally just ported the Adept or Valor recitals onto Iceborne's moveset (even with the I-Frames), then it would've been perfect. oh well, here's to hoping that MH6's team gives Horn its return to form.
Iceborne was perfect. Hunting Horn was like an art and a science and it was just fun.
Also I liked playing the different songs/performance
I personally would've found it cool if they gave us even more melodies to play with with more than just status effects but also offensive uses for people that wanna play alone.
Instead of making it a pseudo hammer, they could given us melodies that launch a wave of the current status effect, or leave it as an area of effect, or a counter roar which would would need you to get the melody three times to cast, but would let you stun the monster so you can attack it more easily.
An "Attention distortion" melody which would cause the monster to stop focusing on whichever player it currently was and switch targets.
An anti-air melody which would take some time to cast, but would act as a free flashbug to knock down flying wyverns.
A "destructive vibrato" melody, which would give you a damage boost the next attack that lands on a monster, which stacks every time you cast it.
A "song rider" melody which would let you use a completely different playing animation, where you'd ride the horn as music carries you long distances at high speed, letting you cover long distances like you could with the Lance.
Anything that would make the HH any more useful than some potions and other craftables.
I absolutely loved it both in world and mhgu and used it as my main weapon in both games. Rise butchered the weapon into something so diffrent i dont even consider it the same weapon anymore.
They honestly should have just made a new weapon. Call it the "hunting flute" or something like that. Much smaller buffs, but faster-paced.
Im so glad I'm not the only one who thought of this,, I had this exact same concept in my head and I named it the "musical mace"
Or they could even make it not music-based. Like maybe a large baton weapon that is faster than horn, but gives smaller buffs through quick dances.
Hunting moroccos, or hunting tambourines.
@@kurosan0079 Like FFXIV's Dancer class, essentially?
Dancing stick? Or pole, i guess, so it doesnt steal hh music identity, but then its getting dangerously close to being to much like ig... Maybe polearm with flag attached, to rally hunters around? I dunno, just give me my hh back
I left this comment on another video discussing HH changes and I thought I'd post it here as it touches so many of the same points you hit. It just shows that old HH players share the same sentiment.
"I play and love the HH in World and in GU. When I saw Rise HH showcase I was super excited by the idea of Iceborne's song queuing mechanic and spins being coupled with the stylish animations of Valor style recitals from GU. Then the demo came and I found a husk of a weapon. Playing HH in Rise is so mindless that I can't enjoy the weapon at all. It seems great lengths were taken to make new attack animations so that attacks flow from one to another beautifully, but none of that matters. All you see is a loop of A then ZR repeated constantly after attack buffs have been played. And those attack buffs are as simple as press the same button twice. Old HH was about finding unique combo paths to maintain the songs specific to your horn.
Iceborne was amazing as it allowed you to queue and play multiple songs at once and required skill/knowledge about how many songs you could safely play at any given time.
GU had the double note system which rewarded players who actively fought a monster while queuing a song.
The soul of HH was the recital. Lining up your notes and then smashing your song across a monster's face is HH. Playing one note in an animation that last less than a second is nothing more than making a noise. That's not music.
In Rise, HH really is just a reject hammer and I dispise it."
I really don't think it was to make HH more popular as much as classic HH would have been the most hurt by Rise's sped up combat. By the time you finished a World performance in Rise, the monster probably would have already charged up some anime super move and carted you. Maybe they could have met in the middle somewhere, like just simplifying the notes needed for songs but regardless they made their decision and it will be up to Capcom to decide which to bring back for MH6. Since MH6 is more likely to be like World with less... coked up anime style combat, my bet would be on World-style.
Good take. Just started rise and pukei already surprised me with how fast it moves lol. Feels like a different monster.
Yeah true, primal malzeno wouldve been a pain in the ass with world HH
Because 23 people on Reddit (who don't play HH) kept claiming that HH players only stay in the corner of the area playing songs.
I'm a weird case of going from rise to world instead of the other way around. I played a bit of hh rise and enjoyed it but after hearing you talk about it on stream I decided to main it in world. It feels totally different. In world every fight makes me think about what songs I need and the most efficient way to ready them up. It's a very active weapon especially compared to rise where I feel like I don't need to think at all (the lower chance of dying in rise makes it even worse).
Same here. Picked up HH in Rise and went to World and continued to main it. There's something about being able to actively build and do songs over the period of the fight that World does so well. In terms of hh over all the games I've played, HH definitely peaked in World and it's a shame it was reduced to what it was in Rise.
The only other hh that comes close to World's is valor hh in genu.
I hope MH6 continues to build upon what World had, instead of what Rise created
I don't even play HH but I agree.
I actually die in Rise a lot more than base World (minus Behemoth of course)
@@thegreatlagi9974 I feel the same way but about charge blade it feels like CB was perfected in iceborne then rise came along and took away or straight up ruined things I loved about it. Since it seems things will stay the same in sunbreak all I can hope for now is just that the next main line games don't adopt rises weapons but world's and iceborne's. I never want the wirebugs and silkbind skills in another monhun game EVER they're basically the source of every problem in rise.
I honestly haven't played HH ever since FU and I practiced it hard in IB before Rise was ported to pc so I can use it effectively there but alas, all my effort was thrown in the bin with how they butchered HH in Rise.
Take 1: “Imagine the longsword with… even more… stuff.”
Take 2: “Imagine the longsword being able to counter off of every attack as opposed to ALMOST every attack.”
Take 3: “Imagine the longsword not tripping anyone with any attack anymore.”
Take 4: “Imagine the longsword kept its red spirit guage perpetually.”
Take 5: “Imagine the longsword EXISTING.”
Imagine The Longsword
Take 3 and Take 4 are perfect
Idk why but in my case my enemy is db, I'm using lance and I can't hit monster at all getting hit by db user all the time maybe because db attack to fast.😅
Imagine longsword but you have a doppleganger that appears when you get red spirit gauge mimicing your attacks with a slight delay.
The thing with rise's rendition of the hunting horn is that while it made it more appealing for a general audience, it was at the cost of alienating those that loved the precise, time based playstyle of the older renditions of it. They tried too much to make the Hunting Horn the "Hunting dual Hammers" and in turn it just isn't the weapon i fell in love with, hell, there is barely any incentive to go for backswings because of how janky it feels when you could just go unga bunga.
Hopefully monster hunter 6 learns from this and goes back to its roots, while improving on IB's hunting horn (which is where i felt it was perfect)
Couldn't agree more. IB horn was my first true love in monster hunter and the first weapon I ever mained.
They could have just made it a new weapon and just buffed hunting horn
I just wanted iceborne horn with s while playing songs.
And I think they missed the point of the Hunting Horn. I think it's the weapon that's meant to be unpopular. It's for specialists who use it because they really love it, not a weapon that's meant to be for everyone. It's a niche. And they took that niche away from it. Back in World, when you see a HH user, you KNOW that he loves the HH. In Rise, it's mostly people with first choice weapons already anyway.
This HH style could've been the 15th wep with a slight moveset change to alienate from HH. In turn HH gets the heavy Iceborne Moveset but higher MV and less endlag on some attacks.
The argument "but it's more fun" doesn't even hold to me because the "new" playstyle of Horn was already available via, like, 4 weapons, we didn't need a new high speed, high combo, stay-in-the-face-of-the-thing weapon
I used to love the POWER of the songs how you could deal a huge amount of KO after building up a song and then do it again, it was so cool the burst of music power, how you could choose which kind of recital to go with depending on the situation. It had such power. Such gravity.
I'm in the same boat as you with this i miss old HH but i guess i'm holding out hope that rise's version of Hunting horn is only around for rise and sunbreak, rather than the new normal going forward.
Let's hope it's one of those ideas they come up with for one game, only to be completely abandoned in the next game.
Yeah def the way it might go and they might just add one thing from rise HH moveset to the newer one.
hard to say, whether or not it stays will probably be based on the user metrics more than anything else, HH had a massive overhaul from 2nd to 3rd gen and we never went backwards then either.
I hope not... i bet theres more hh players than ever since its actually easier to use, while the old hh player were not happy about the changes they were replaced by new players.
They won't most likely, seeing how much of a waste it would be that they reworked it. It is quite unfortunate tbh...
As a horn main I have to say you did a wonderful job explaining the differences of the horns in each game and truly your love for the weapon shines through this video my good sir.
what if they in the next game had "heavy hunting horn" like in world, and a "light hunting horn" like from rise? do you think it could be made different enough to warrant both?
I feel like Generations Ultimate hit the sweet spot between Horn being a Support weapon and being good at dealing damage thanks to the genius double note mechanic and Valor Mode.
Rise HH would have been 5 times better if they had only added the bug moves and the ability to unsheathe while moving
And just sligtly increasing its MVs
EXACTLYYYYYYYYY AND JUST KEEP BREAK DANCE
@@bang2goeezy496 no
I really like the Self Improvement move in Rise. I played a decent amount of HH in Gen, GenU, World, and Iceborne. As a secondary weapon I'm enjoying it much more. Sad to hear that it's lost it's identity as a main weapon.
@@FloorFourteen yes
I personally much preferred MHW HH. I feel like the Rise version is just button mashing. The best solution I’ve come up with is a potential split, similar to light and heavy bowgun. I feel like the two versions of hunting horn feel different enough that the split could be feasible and reasonable. The “heavy” hunting horn (for lack of a better word) could have world’s functionality with less damage and stronger buffs, while a “light” rise version could have higher raw damage but weaker buffs.
So soprano horn and bass horn?
Split it by instrument type. Rise HH can be Bellhammer/Drumclub while classic hunting horn can keep the old name and cover wind/string instruments.
Classic hunting horn is always going to have low popularity because of its wonky place in the meta as the support weapon. Ideally it should be the worst solo weapon but hands down the best 4th weapon in an organised team. It's naturally going to see less general use because I imagine most people don't regularly play with a full organised team and if you're playing with randoms you risk doubling-up on buffs.
Or perhaps give the Rise version to a new Cutting weapon. Old/world style stays the Hunting horn, and the new one becomes... I don't know, Hunting Acoustic?
Hunting horn got such a massive buff in world it basically solved all it's problems with the queue system and the echo attacks, not only did it have the best utility but it also now had damage and less downtime to back it up, unfortunately it seems the "support weapon" stigma was too deep rooted in the community so most people ended up ignoring it. I'm always switching mains between games and it seems in Rise it'll be no different, maybe I'll try the swaxe.
And when the Deviljho update came out the hunting horn self improvement also gives you a 15% attack up buff
Looking at speedruns/challenge runs, Hunting Horn usually still scored somewhere near the bottom. It wasn't until it got a flashy new move in Iceborne that it actually became a viable solo weapon (and it was heavily nerfed after the demo which had 1 of the new moves being completely OP).
Anyhow, I think this video is just a bunch of dumb complaints. They buffed nearly every weapon up into the heavens. If this HH was pretty much the same as in World/IB I can assure you this video creator would've likely made some dumbass video complaining about how they have not adressed issues and should've gotten way more moves variety and buffs. You can never please them.
It’s also a very complex weapon. More people would rather play Longsword and Hammer over Gunlance and Hunting Horn.
@@thenonexistinghero i can tell you dont play the weapon but are you aware you can buff a weapon without changing its playstyle lol
@@bipsahoy8064 Except I did play the weapon in World (along with every other weapon other than the bow and charge blade). Almost all weapons got huge buffs and changes in playstyles in Rise. Most weapons play almost nothing they like used to pre-World.
While I like using Rise HH, I can definitely agree with the character and charm being removed from the weapon. I had a similar revelation when I was playing Freedom Unite and was thrust back into the paintball system to track monsters.
I've loved the idea of hunting horn since 3U but never went deep on it because I felt like I had to have a party of friends to support me while I deal less overall damage. But maybe I'm just being a dork about it and should give it more of a real chance :)
Great vid, btw! Very informative and well written!
every mh game ive played i solo hh, and while definitely doable it might limit you from time to time.... but it just makes you that much better of a hunter!! B)
Please do not torture yourself by soloing with HH. It is a group support weapon for a reason, and is tuned as such. If you want to solo HH, just play Hammer.
@@RaethFennec i argue that each of the hhs moves (before rise) each provide their own utility, and managing song uptimes while positioning requires a great amount of focus and skill that is soooooo rewarding for me. thats just how i see it though
@@vactyl__ I think the key to that is that it could still achieve that in Rise even in its current form by simply having more songs back and maybe some answer to monster attacks other than wirebug repositioning.
Been using HH on and off ever since it’s introduction and imo iceborne HH has been the best iteration of it so far, I was honestly surprised to see it streamlined this hard considering that ichinose claims that it’s his favorite weapon.
Thats what I dont understand, how does Ichinose claims that he is a HH main yet completely erase his favorite weapon from his own game, it doesnt make any sense.
@@Carlisho he overshot his objective of making it approachable
@ICameFromAsia That doesnt mean the weapon deserves to be deleted from the game, also this is a JRPG, support playstyle and mechanics is part of the experience and what makes this genre so special, because the player has freedom to play however they want, if people want to play 100% offensive they can just play an action game or a fighting game.
@@Carlisho As a HH main I actually disagree- Monster Hunter shouldn't have just "support weapons". The ultimate goal is to deal damage to monsters.
However, making Horn more combat focused as opposed to buff focused didn't require the vast changes to the moveset that were in significant part unsuccessful in Rise, mostly the changes to how songs work. IMO the DPS core of Hunting Horn should be long windup Performance/Encore moves, but these moves should be the damage equivalent of True Charged Slashes, like how Iceborne implemented the echo notes
Ichinose claims that he is an Hunting Horn main but that can’t be true or he liked the weapon but was salty due to how hard it is to use it properly. He probably just liked the concept of the Hunting Horn but hated everything about its gameplay so he created that abomination that is Rise Hunter Horn. I am not even an Hunting Horn player but I feel sad for all the people that lost their favorite weapon.
I think they should def implement the double note system in future games. It was probably the best system to incentive people to actually hit the monster when playing HH and keep them DPS~ing as part of the team
No, those are just bad HH users; never had a problem hitting the mons with 4-chain attacks. you shouldn't dumb down a weapon for people who don't know how to use it and refuse to learn, especially since Hammers exist anyway. it's a support weapon; If you can't contribute significant damage while supporting, you're better off being a dps main with LS/LBG/HBG like 90% of the MH community.
It's really hard to make any solid conclusions on this without going to an alternate dimension or something, but I really feel that if all they did was the animation changes but kept the song system pretty much the same it would've had a pretty similar effect with increasing HH popularity. That would've at least kept the main defining feature of the weapon in tact, but the added flashiness would draw in new players, and I think less previous HH players would be alienated if that was all that was changed.
And on the point of nobody asking for this sort of change, there's always going to be a least popular weapon. I don't think it's an inherent problem that less people play HH instead of something like LS, in fact, I'd argue that HH being played less than other weapons is inherent to the design, given how the damage HH brings to the whole group quickly diminishes when you have more than one, which isn't something you can say for a lot of other weapons.
There was also the simultaneous joy and apprehension people had when they saw one, before our ranks got so high. Like "HH? Awesome! Wait... but can they actually _play_ it well?"
There was a wildcard celebrity aspect to using it 🤣
I am a mhw player to mhr the main reason that I don't play hh in world is bcuz the atk felt weird and clunky for me. But the song system thou that some good shit. I personally like mhr hh moveset but the song part is lacking a whole lot
@@oj_furrylover8484 it's seriously so rewarding playing the World version, especially Iceborne... but yeah, I spent my first three years using GS exclusively, so I feel ya
@@Virjunior01 yea when you hit it right def felt rewarding. It's hard to pick up I drop it after face tobi cuz tobi too fast
@@oj_furrylover8484 remember the basics from even 1st Gen. Sheathe when you know you gotta move. But self improvement song gives you move speed up, and some horns give you evasion up songs.
What was your first MH?
I feel like HH is just in a 'growing pains stage'. It kinda needed a tune up from a pure weapon effectiveness standpoint (this isn't even the 1st time it's gotten 1 either--3rd gen HH was extremely different compared to 2nd gen's version). The catch is that it probably didn't need 1 as far in the direction they ended up going. More power and style points are all fine and dandy, but it's the simplification of its core mechanic that lost people. Things were all hype after the teaser trailer, but when people got their hands and eyes on the new song system? Not so much.
If anyone was around in the community when World changed Bow, this is EXACTLY the same situation: the weapon got a massive overhaul. The overhaul undoubtedly did some good things for the weapon, making it flashier and stronger...but there's still a vocal group (argue whether they're the majority or minority if you want, from most polling I've seen it's actually the latter more often than not) that like the old version anyways. Notice how complaints about Bow not being a more deliberate charge based weapon seem to have all but died out though? I kinda think the same will happen with new HH eventually, especially if they continue working with it to reach a decent middle ground that appeases both sides of the coin. Personally, I think that if they just swapped out the new song mechanics for the old in a future game they'd already be making huge steps towards that goal.
This is exactly what I thought. The same thing happened to Gunlance in World when they added the heat gauge to try and make the weapon more interesting, but all they did was make it somehow more awkward to play.
Then in Rise, the Gunlance has been absolutely amazing to play given its newfound mobility that it needed.
For every weapon they screw up in a game, they come back tenfold the next, it seems.
Your comparison irks me, it sounds like you’re in favor of the new bow? Old bow is better though. Flashiness is not an improvement since archery should be about simple attacks that emphasize ideal positioning. All the ranged weapons pre-World had terrible controls and that’s where the improvement was needed and well-implemented… except for bows. In old games, bows were the ranged weapons I’d be most likely to use, though that’s still in exceptional cases. Now bows aren’t even ranged weapons, they’re some bizarre long-reaching melee weapon built around burning stamina until you have to stop to literally catch your breath, plus a bunch of fireworks for no fucking reason. Old bows were just bows as they would be in MH, and all they needed was updated controls. New bows are some fighting game bullshit where the weapon bears no functional similarity to its real-world equivalent and feels like sloppily flinging around a bunch of firecrackers.
@@maddockemerson4603 I don't mind new Bow, no. Or old Bow for that matter; both are fun versions of the weapon if you ask me and you're free to like either more or less than the other. If you look at the games leading up to World it was leaning closer and closer to the less methodical, more combo focused version we have now anyway with the addition of the Power Shot and Valor Power Shot. It was only a matter of time till we got to this point--World just made the final jump all at once.
Looking back, I'd probably also add that skyrocketing up to 1 of the top 3 strongest weapons probably also had an effect on calming down the complaints lol. The thought that it's'worse' than it was before is mainly a personal preference matter when it comes to the playstyle specifically.
Hadn't touched HH in Rise until this last week and this video explains exactly how I feel. Something just felt off while playing it and I quickly dropped it, now I'm back to my dual blades. I miss the heft of those weighted swings from old HH.
Handi: longsword with... Much more stuff
Capcom in Sunbreak: you have no idea
Are you a prophet or was it that obvious?
Are you a prophet or was it that obvious?
@@christianjoyce3853 latter
at this point just make it spin and just press a to damage
My first MH game was World, due to market accessibility, and I fell in love with the idea of the horn after starting out as a hammerbro. The setting that MH:W carried reinforced my love for the horn further (brand new environment, hunters being more akin to researchers, with effort to understand species, behaviour, and ecosystem and not just hunt/capture monsters) since, in my perspective, it was the epitome of "know the monster and it's behaviour, and know yourself and your limitations".
While it was difficult at first, the feeling of achievement after successful hunts was just much better. Knowing that I needed particular buffs to sustain the hunt, and balancing that with the knowledge of the monsters behaviour...
When i found out 'Perform > Crush' was the Horn's bread n butter in Rise, I was perplexed from my experience in MHW, because the horn can't afford that consistency.
The horn, IMO, rewarded the knowledge of your song list and how flexible the user could be when switching to play out one song for another
I agree completely Handi! The main reason I switched from sns to hunting horn was the methodical playstyle of dancing with the monster
This! I miss this! Now I feel I need to be more wary least' I get locked behind some long attack animation just to get clocked one over the head. Then not even get me buffs off!
Thank you for being our voice! I hope Capcom will see this. They took the ONE weapon that I truly loved and felt comfortable with, and threw it away so that people with other main weapons can have another fast button masher..
100% agree. They erase the battle dance (angular hits, reposition, etc) and the recital/encore system... For what? To make happier the mains of other weapons? Make the HH great for his users, man...
This is what happened to bow in world.
Generally as I've been playing the older games in reverse this seems to have been a constant problem of the weapons getting more things that increase their damage or how they function.
And then there's the gun lance, where things are constantly taken away and the damage lowered from game to game.
I loved how the HH felt in world and old gen monster hunter games. I'm not a HH main but I do love how slow and tactical you have to be to be successful with the horn (coming from a SnS main). I don't really like how speed up everything is in rise especially with how they changed hunting horn. Rise is still pretty fun though lol.
9:35 I love this comment because it's why I loved using magnet spike in frontier. I'm a HH main as well and this video makes me so happy to not feel alone in my opinion, literally I agree with all your points. I've gotten to a point where because my favorite weapon isn't at all the same I barely have played monster hunter over the last 9 months and have only recently started trying to come back after playing some 3U again. Thank you for making this video and spreading the word (even though I'm a year late to it)
I have to agree with you, hunting horn has changed and its hard for me to call it hunting horn at all. I definitely prefer the more weighty hits behind it, tbh with how fast the combat is getting weight feels like it's getting lost a lot for some things. Excellent video nonetheless, rise hunting horn feels like an entirely different weapon now.
You're right! Ironically I talked about the impact of the GS but in Rise that even feels a little lacking in the impact category 😅
It needs yet another rework.
@@HandiTips GS feels awful in Rise. It felt like my sword isn't actually made of iron or bone, but instead it's one of those plastic/rubber swords they use for props.
@@kurosan0079 thats very weird because i only hear people saying how good the impact of GS feels compared to past games
@@Duppy0906 Well, I disagree with them. Look at a clip of World TCS and a clip of Rise TCS. Same animation, but World TCS had more hitstop, more camera shake on impact, better camera zoom, and better sound design. Rise had less on every category. That's just one example, but the weapon as a whole just did not feel powerful in Rise. It felt like they tried to make it a fast weapon, which simply will not work out.
Its so interesting to hear the history to the weapon, especially seeing how Rise was my intro to the Mh franchise. I saw the hunting horn and laughed at how absurd the conscept, and stuck with it after that, but after learning theres so much depth to it, especially in past games, makes me genuinely curious to experience how it was then!
Thank you for reaffirming my biases and further pushing my belief that GU hunting horn is based with its double notes system and styles
Great work on the new video friend! Couldn't agree more with the points you made. I wasn't a HH enthusiast until I joined your community, and I saw its beauty in Iceborne. Unfortunately Rise didn't carry over and provide the same beauty that I had fallen in love with. Honestly kinda motivated to make a "Why I hate Rise Switch Axe" after watching this lol.
“Back in my day” being used for World is crazy, and frankly I have never felt more old than I do now 😭 I remember when the only way to play notes was through the recital itself in MHF2
I really think all HH needed was motion value buffs and we would be cooking. 4th gen HH was fine moveset wise. The note chart from World was nice, but as long as it had the same moves I would always be able to enjoy playing HH.
Always great to see you upload :)
As a veteran ride or die HH main I felt exactly the same with the Rise changes, so much so, while I played only HH on the switch version, now I changed to hammer in the PC Rise port.
I still love my HH, I long for the day to see it's true song again, I really hope they go back to the old horn in the next main series title.
You know what makes Rise HH fun? It's combos. There is no real song upkeep since every attack instantly gives you a buff and Magnificent Trio gives you every buff. I love the attacks and the combos feel wonderful, but it's another blunt weapon that happens to buff allies, not a Hunting Horn. So as someone who was not into Hunting Horn before Rise and found it difficult to learn, I have a lot of fun with it. But I feel sorry for those who liked it before and lost it for this new version.
And I'm definitely happy for you! Even if I'm salty as hell 😂
Can't wait for greatsword to be as fast as dualblades as long people enjoy it.
I'm glad you enjoy it. It was in my top 3 most used weapons in 4U, Gen and World orne but Rise made me drop it after 1 hunt
Thank you. One of my favourite memories in Monster Hunter is, back when I was a noob, accidentally killing a Gendrome by golf swinging it across the room while I was trying to play a song. When I started to get a handle on the diverging goals of the weapon's wide arcs and song management, that's when I really fell in love. There's was a lot of joy to finding openings to safely perform and even more so to find moments to perform on the monster's face. I adored Adept Style for bringing back the 3 Ultimate moveset, I started in 4 Ultimate, but I love being able to easily transition from moving to the A hook and combo into an X+A backswing to sidestep the counterattack.
I'm using Greatsword in Rise.
Man your video brought tears in my eyes, you just said what I've been feeling this whole time when i started playing MHR, especially the part about the weight of the hits. Love the vid man.
I'm gonna be honest and ask for some fan's opinions, I'm not trying to draw ire, I want to understand. So I'll put it up here to TLDR: Why was the original so "good?" My experience with it was a super-slow weapon that exposed yourself to all kinds of attacks with buffs that "helped" but could be outdone by adding another layer of Hunter to your fight (I didn't SEE the HH-Hunter as an actual combatant, using HH basically negates your team a member), and the things didn't only deal less damage than a lot of other tools but their songs were so drawn out and lackluster. You act like a monster isn't going to annihilate you the moment you play 2 doots off that thing let alone 24 doots in sequence.
I know, a proper HHH is gonna tell me "You've got it ALL wrong!" and maybe have no idea what I'm talking about, or, maybe they will, so that's why I'm saying "Why use this item? In my hands, it's slow, inaccurate, deals subpar damage, makes you vulnerable, and its main mechanic isn't as useful as the number of negatives on this list."
Rise made me love the hunting horn because now I can be a support, feel useful, and still have to think about what attacks I'm actually doing. I can't spam one attack, I want to play the entire song. I have the Wirebugs where I can enhance my damage, place a grenade charge waiting for the right time for an explosion of stun and exhaust... My songs come out so fast, they're useful to the team, and the damage/stun power of the tool is nimble enough to not be at risk of death and powerful enough that I **FEEL like a member of the team** and not just some guy in the background trying not to get harassed for playing music during a fight. The meter to the ultimate-buff is useful to make your whole team a BETTER team, and it gives a reason to WANT to hit the monster. Rise made me forget that I hated the Hunting Horn.
What happened? Why do I see the previous hunting horns as extremely unpleasant weapons versus useful support tools that are essentially "A Hammer that has grace and purpose" (no shame Hammer Hunters, the simplicity of Bonk-Bonk-Bonk-Bonk-Bonk-Bonk can't be topped, and some days you just wanna hit a monster like they're a nail that just won't drive into the wood.)
as a HH main in WorldBorne with over a thousand HH hunts and have solo'd all monsters at this point but have only a few hunts using HH so far in RiseBreak, this is my opinion. Although, be aware that it might change after a while.
TL;DR: I really don't like the new Rise's HH movesets because it's so aggressive, fast and has so much more complex moves with simple songs while WorldBorne HH moves are extremely simple, slow and deliberate (even when compared to Hammer and some GS moves) with complex songs. EAch WorldBorne's HH inputs just feels significantly more meaningful than Rise's.
A big part of why I love it is because it is simple, slow and deliberate. Despite the simple movesets, the play style is complex. You really gotta know your attacks, notes, timing, positioning, facing angle and that of the monster's too, if you want to play effectively. Each inputs can be a massive screw up or a massive contribution. To elaborate further:
+ Standing in the right place but facing the wrong direction often means you'll hit the wrong part or not hit at all. Sometimes you have to face it 90 degrees to the right or left for the best chance to hit it. *This is something you have to be aware of*.
+ Beginning an attack at the wrong time or using a too lengthy attack during a short opening means you'll open yourself to getting hit. But missing an opening that you could've attack in means you'll massively lose DPS. You have to be precise in your timing and opening abusing. *This is something you have to be aware of*.
+ Not knowing what attack to use so that you can combo with the previous attacks to make up a song means you won't be able to play a song that either you or the team might need. This means your songs will have big down times. You have to have the ability to use all of the previous points simultaneously. *This is something you have to be aware of*.
Pretty much all the things I listed above really requires simple, slow and deliberate moves so that you can learn and get used to the weapon. Despite how simple it looks, the skill floor is really high. You can't just jump in, do 6 hits because you hit a button 2 times while looking at the monster, ignoring angle, ignoring notes, focusing on only damage, get out unscathed and get a song up in Iceborne. For Iceborne's HH, you have to ask yourself if you're standing at the right place, right angle, input the right button for the right attack and/or right note and get, at most, 2 hits in before you have to get out because each attack hits only *once or twice* (Echo attack is the only exception worth mentioning because multi-hit attacks like performance/encore are just bad, in general). I haven't even mentioned directional attacks that helps queue songs faster. Each inputs needs consideration on whether you need to play a song or do damage and you can only have both when you've learnt the monster attacks, follow up attacks, the weapon's attacks and have a proper strategy. Each button press is meaningful.
It really forces you to know the monster and your weapon to squeeze in any attacks you can get while queueing the songs so that you can maintain optimal damage and optimal buff time. I only wish that WorldBorne's HH has higher damage per hit to compensate for the lack of DPS.
The lack of those is the main reason why I hate Rise's horn, so far. This is a completely different weapon that they easily could've made into a 15th weapon. The songs are so simplified for Rise's HH and each inputs just feels so much less meaningful compared to Iceborne. The thing I got used to for hundreds of hours got overhauled into something else altogether and I have no way to play the weapon that I loved. I'm not against people that enjoys it and I don't want it removed, I just really want my old HH.
I was never a Hunting Horn main, but HH is easily my 'second love' next to Charge Blade. I genuinely adore taking this weapon out in World/Iceborne, GU, 4U, and 3U - basically every MH game I've played except for Rise.
I still play it in Rise, but it doesn't feel purposeful. I like weapons to feel methodical, and to me the Hunting Horn was one of those weapons where I have to make a split-second decision about which particular swing I want at any given time to doot the head of the monster I'm fighting. I agree with all of your points about the lack of weight, recitals/encores being diminished and basically not existing, but ultimately it's the combo-heavy nature of the weapon that really made me fall out of love with this version of it. I want every attack to be deliberate and meaningful, both in terms of the notes I build up on my staff and how best to reach the face - and in Rise, I just don't get that anymore.
I desperately want HH to be brought back to an older version of itself in MH6 because I really want to keep this beautiful weapon in my back pocket for hunts but in Rise it's just not something I really want to play all that often.
I see where you're coming from but the HH was actually inspired by capoeira. (So you were actually on point comparing it to Eddy). Personally I like old HH better but I still like this version. Maybe they can make it so you get to choose which style.
Really enjoyed watching this video Handi. Reminds me of why i first subscribed when watching your why i love series
I generally like aspects of both old and rise hunting horn with both having positives and negatives. A hybrid of the two could be made or move forward with an old and new style, leaving to the player which they prefer.
Take the classic hunting horn, rename it Heavy Hunting Instrument
Step 1. keep it the same
Take the new hunting horn, rename it Light Hunting Instrument
Step 1. use the new streamlined song mode.
Step 2. slap a blade on it , change its damage to cutting damage
Step 3. make all sound effects guitar or electric guitar effects
Step 4. make Teostra and Vaalxtrax or any Fire elder dragon Light instrument shoot fire from its tip after your spinning attack.
Step 5. Profit. not just common profit. MASSIVE CRAZY PROFIT
The loss of deliberance in my movements is what killed this weapon for me. Using echo mode, the most powerful combo is 2 buttons, 3 if you think you have time.
I tried moving over to the lance, which asks the player to position themselves carefully, and have reccently picked up the great sword - but honestly, the lack of a weapon that fits like a glove is why I keep going back to GU over Rise.
Yes, the swax has infinite sword gauge now. What, am I playing with mods on now?
it's like my thoughts put into a video, thank you for this
Tbh as someone who played Hunting Horn close to when it first came out in (I’m talking about MHFU), I like the Rise version of HH. The core mechanics still exist for the weapon and it’s just simpler to use the weapon beyond having to learn the new songs every time you upgrade the weapon. But it’s pretty similar to the oldest version of the weapon and I never really cared for the direction it continued to go in with the games that followed, although I think with World they added allot of QoL to it to make it more enjoyable.
I can understand why people don’t see it as a similar weapon, but I also understand why the MH team made those changes; practically no one played that weapon, and I think I can count on my hands, from MHTri through MHGU, how many times I’ve seen someone else in a lobby using that weapon, and the number of times I’ve seen it in Rise more than doubles that.
Definitely sucks for old HH users though, I feel the same way about palicos / felyne comrades, hopefully in future games they can find a better way to attract new players while still making it fun for the older HH fans.
I feel like hh hit harder in iceborne to me. I DEFINITELY get more knockouts in world.
Also, because of the way that we played hunting horn main in world, the conversation of support v. dps was propelled to the forefront of mh discord; which in turn birthed this button mashing version of hh we wield in rise.
Therefore im alway gonna prefer the world hh.
Doots up!
I'll never forget the tone change in the dagger users voice after he asked me why he isn't getting stamina reduction this hunt, and i replied with cuz this horn has bangers XD.
Blasting music directly into the monsters ear to then get a knock with the encore will always be one of the most satisfying things for me on MH.
or after getting meme'd for just being a stamina buff to then get a full sweep on the post hunt award cards, most Damage done - HH, most parts broken - HH, most buffs given - HH. core memory. If you ain't running Great Sword then you ain't out damaging the Horn.
great video! world was my first MH game and i was an instant HH main, only branching out into other weapons well into iceborne when i felt like mixing things up. it just really called to me the moment i saw it. it's my heart and soul and the rise version just feels... empty. it truly feels like it was robbed of tactic, impact, and personality. it gives you everything for free but without any meaning. a lot of this really articulates how i've been feeling and struggling to articulate to my friends as a HH main
It’s not more fun. The complexity and weight of the HH was the fun part
MH vet here (though I never played World). I was always turned off by the complexity of hunting horn up until Rise despite the fact I enjoyed the "support" role it fulfilled. My friend who got me into playing the game in the first place introduced me to the Hammer and I became a Hammer main ever since.
Now, with Rise, I actually welcome the changes to the Hunting Horn to the point that I am really trying to build sets for it in Sunbreak. I am genuinely enjoying it as my first go around with the weapon.
Again, I have no previous game to compare it to feel-wise as I just didn't have the courage (or let's admit it patience) to figure it out in previous game, but I always wanted to be "support hammer" and finally got that opportunity here, so while I get what you mean about some elements of the weapon (I can definitely tell it lacks a "weightiness" that you show in the World and even GU clips), I think overall what they have done is for the best. Would I love more of an "impact" with it? Sure. But I appreciated the simplified combat of it to where I don't have to try so hard to support my team.
Just my take. I think of it as "Hammer +" which is exactly why I like using it.
I'm still unable to find a weapon in Rise I enjoy playing like I enjoyed old HH.
mannn, i’ve been waiting on the video for ages Handi haha. to be real tho, this is so cathartic to watch. i hope the sentiment is shared in the Japanese Rise community as well, so maybe Capcom will listen and at least try to salvage the weapon a bit in Sunbreak, or at least prevent this from happening again in MH6 to be more realistic.
I've made similar video 7 months ago... and yeah, it is nowhere near my true love that was the old HH. not gonna repeat everything that was said either here or on the video I made while back, but just to sum things up: I have to agree with everything. If people enjoy this weapon it's great, but the only thing I hope for is they won't stick to this Hunting Horn forever now, that would break my heart SO MUCH... Honestly new HH was one of the things because of I stopped playing Rise.
Absolutely agree. Hunting Horn for me is one of the weapons that really encouraged deliberate play, like you said. You plan out what song you wanted to play even before approaching, but also need to understand the monster you're fighting to make sure the hits land as well. You sneak in notes with the double swing and the handle poke, so that you could make the recital hit the monster in the time that you have left. Rise HH felt like you just attack attack attack. Anyway, great video! :)
I think that if the HH is to be more focused on dps, it should do the biggest damage with the recital. Those big slaps and shockwaves before you perform. In world I just love it when I end up staggering a monster while providing support. And I assume that’s what mhw devs did to try make HH more appealing.
First time in a while I've gotten one of your vids in my feed. I don't have or play rise, but I was still interested enough to click. It's neat to see how they've decided to change horns.
The general bulkiness of rise monsters adds pressure for each weapon to do insane constant dps. I was an old gen gs main, I cannot play new gs; it's not the same weapon. Some people love it, but I completely understand your sentiment.
Honestly I like Rise horn just because in (mostly Iceborne) World I felt punished for taking horn against a monster I didn't know. Where I didn't feel that with other weapons.
I was a recent Rise recruit, but, yeah, I see where you're coming from. It's like Megaman 7 on SNES, to me. NES Megaman had a good feel to it's animation and game feel. Then Megaman X on SNES had a similar experience in that it felt like a new, upgraded experience that built on what came before. More rock, more moves, but the same sharp motion and sense of power that a runner/gunner like Megaman offers. Then Mm7 was a huge backpedal in music and animation. Instead of simply glowing with power when charging the buster while moving, in MM7 he holds his arm buster out, and his jumps, which were cartoons and exaggerated to begin with, look clumsy and top-heavy. Like how the horn in Rise feels lighter than it's older versions. It's a change no one asked for or wanted in both counts. I'm oversimplifying my reply because I'm on cell phone waiting for my job to start, but I feel for ya. 😀
I felt so relieved when I found out that Wilds will have the World style hunting horn, good lord
I’m scared to think my fav weapon will be like this forever in the ongoing series, and i hope they give us some options to play it og. Maybe they do something where it becomes two separate weapons, where og is heavy hunting horn that rewards you with longer buffs, and rise’s becoming light hunting horn that gives them in half the time.
or if switch skills are in wild, they just make it so theres 2 versions of hh, one where its more of a support weapon, and the other is more dps focused
BUT ITS MORE FUN!!!
But seriously, this is another case where in an effort to make the game more approachable and “interesting” for new players; they lose the deeper nuance of the feature to begin with. Everything in Monster Hunter comes together to form a singularity, an aesthetic (like most games). More and more this singularity is becoming inconsistent and now the original aesthetic is disappearing. There’s no point in having attention to detail on the actual music produced by the HH if you aren’t even spending the moment playing the instrument.
It’s okay Capcom, you can add the “Hunting Flute” to the game. Just please don’t take away the Hunting Horn.
Side note, have you tried Freedom Unite HH? It requires even more commitment.
My main problem with Rise HH is that there was a much simpler way to bring up the Horn to the standard of other weapons. All that needed to be done is to get rid of attack buffs so they could put its DPS in line with other weapons, and then either buff recital and encore's damage or just bring in the Valor mode versions of those two from GU, where it attacked the whole time it played the song so damage uptime is more consistent. Also, if you look at speedrun times, HH is still pretty close to the bottom, so its hard to say the rework actually did much except grossly simplify HH.
Getting rid of attack buffs would also have the side effect of making way more Horns "meta" - not that Horns without Attack XL are always completely useless, but from a meta perspective they kind of are, especially with a full party.
I also think the simplification aspect of it is pretty silly. HH itself was never complicated. The complexity of the weapon came from having to understand when you could commit to playing songs and when you had to stay mobile, which obviously changes depending on the monster you're hunting. It had a low skill floor but high skill ceiling.
All that being said, I kind of like the idea of the new gauge. Maybe instead of basing it on how many attacks hit, it could be based on how many songs were played in order to play into the music aspect more. I think keeping that one as an attack buff would work just fine, too. It could also be changed to a tuning system, where the gauge can be refreshed by continuing to play songs. When the gauge is full, maybe it gives free double notes or more KO power or something.
Here's to hoping they bring back old HH as a switch skill in Sunbreak.
As a man who only ever played HH in Rise: I have no idea why I’m here!
The thing that always pushed me away from old hunting horn was how much memorisation it required, you had to remember like 8 colour combinations and which input gave which colour and which Konami code I need to do to play the song I want, and how I have to relearn that again with every new horn. It’s incredibly overwhelming, but rise gutting literally everything apart from a few iconic attacks really sucks, there’s a way to make the horn actually approachable without making it soulless and after a couple hunts I put it back down to play glaive or hammer again.
I’m really hoping that the next release finds a balance. I love the faster pace of Rise’s HH, but I can definitely see where some depth was lost from the older games. If they can reintroduce that depth without just winding the weapon back, I think we can find a real sweet spot.
See, while I do understand this for the older titles... Once World added a song sheet on screen I really think it's no longer a very good argument.
Also... Something that was personally lost for me in Rise/Sunbreak was the feeling of performing certain comboa of songs. With HH in World/Iceborne, you could add many songs to your queue very efficiently by playing the right notes in the right order. If you need White+White for your self buff and then White+Red+Red for your attack buff... You could play all 5 notes to get both songs ready.
Or you could play White+White+Red+Red and reuse the second white note of your self buff song for the first note in the attack buff song.
And then when you get songs that have 4 notes, and some horns with a healthy mix of both many 3 and 4 note stone, there's even more room for optimization.
Simplifying all the songs and removing the multi-song recitals hurt the weapon so much for me. All that optimization fun was lost.
I do understand that people like the new horn too. But man, it feels like my main weapon was straight up removed from the game, and that sucks.
I'm hoping Wilds gives us Heavy Hunting Horn - which is the OG horn that uses Iceborne's mechanics again. Then the Sunbreak HH can be Hunting Horn or Light Hunting Horn.
Maybe the tradeoff is that Heavy Hunting Horn can buff the whole party, but Light Hunting Horn can only buff itself. Or perhaps the Heavy Hunting Horn has access to better buffs... so Heavy HH has access to attack up Medium and Large, but Light HH can only play attack up Small and Medium.
I dunno. I miss my methodical approach and feeling like every song was a specific combo. The satisfaction of the weapon is gone for me with it being so braindead now.
I had no idea they removed the music from the horn in Rise. Also, I feel its important to note that MonHun is generally pretty good about giving big heavy weapons their weight, its not a game where you can swing a greatsword around like a knife, but the rise hunting horn seems to have forgotten that. There's fun and technique to be found in letting the weapon not do stuff for a bit, and I know capcom knows this cause thats how hammer and great sword charging works
They didn't. It's just not as loud.
For example: The Valstrax horn will play a bit of Proof of a Hero when you do a Magnificent Trio. Other horns also play bits and pieces of various musics that are in the game.
As someone who has played HH since 3U, I just disagree. I can understand you want a slower more methodical weapon, and that’s fine. But saying the soul of the weapon isn’t there anymore is just ridiculous. The weapon is still all about music, and still hits just as hard. In rise they gave it much more soul by letting hunting horn feel more fluid and less of a buff first attack second weapon. I like the fast paced gameplay and it reflects rise/sun break’s gameplay as well. IMO it always felt like HH needed something more and rise gave it that.
On the topic of music, it’s still definitely there. You just don’t have to spend ages to listen to it. The symphonies are faster to make it so that you can go to do what the game is all about, hunting the monster.
I’ve played world HH and 3U and 4U and Gen/GenU and rise/Sunbreak HH and while they’re all somewhat different or barely depending on what your definition may be, I think each iteration of the weapon improves it. I’ve heard for the longest time that HH might as well just be a musical hammer and the only reason to use it is for the buffs which sucked to hear since I love the weapon. Now in rise it feels like less of a cousin and more like a different family which I love. It gave itself distinction from hammer in a new way and also made it so that the music you play feels like you’re not just swinging around a rock on a stick. I love that.
I understand it’s personal opinion and that’s fine but your bias clouds your vision.
"Get off my lawn, and leave my f***** Horn alone" 👏🤣👏🤣
While Rise HH lends itself better to a very aggressive playstyle it lost pretty much all of the depth it had in Worldborne. Back in IB no two horns feel the same due to the songs available and the nature of the combo structure. For the Velkhana HH you would queue up your songs very differently compared to Rajang for example. In Rise your choice of HH makes no difference to how you actually play because all your buffs involve hitting the same button twice or queueing up your three notes, be it Rajang, Teostra or whichever HH you picked.
The lack of impact is the logical conclusion of how much Rise sped up combat is not an issue exclusive to HH. Take the gunlance for example, in Worldborne your Wyvern's Fire was pretty much guaranteed to knock down or at least flinch the monster while in Rise, more often than not the monster just shrugs it off and keeps going. This is not a complaint per se, much rather it's an example to demonstrate my point of view.
I couldn't agree more with what you said
I understand the point of the argument but on the other hand, I enjoy not having to have sheet music in front of me when I play monster hunter. Also they changed the weapon in a way where corner horning isn't really a valid strategy anymore which imo, makes the weapon a lot more fun to play as a whole
you can turn it off in the settings menu, its what i do, if youve played hh before gen 5 then learning the combinations was part of the deal, corner horning was never a viable strategy, rise hh did not do anything to change that
I mostly agree with all your points, although I did only play Hunting horn during World and rise, back in World it was basically the ou weapon I used by far the most, it just kept me playing more and more. Now in Rise it just doesn't have that same impact you could call it, but hey now I've picked up Gunlance which despite its being underpowered is super fun.
Handi, I would like to ask you to reconsider Rise HH and give it another chance. I, and many others in the HH community, initially were apprehensive with the changes. Like you, we thought the nature of playing HH has devolved into a spammy playstyle, but after some deliberation and optimization, we know this now to not be true.
While I fully agree that the recital tunes are sorely missed, overall I think the change in recital mechanics is for the better. Encores were cool but practicality-wise, they were never really very useful back in Iceborne other than for renewing buffs or only for Echo Wave bombs. The performance and echo recitals in Rise are significantly better moves with better uses.
I do not agree that the hunting horn is no longer methodical and has devolved into a spammy DPS weapon. In my opinion (and I am sure several others agree as well) Capcom made changes to the HH in a way that you can play it as a spammy DPS weapon if you want, but at the end of the day, OPTIMAL PLAY is still achieved by playing the slow, methodical way as it was played before; only now you have significantly better moves such as the Self-Improvement Recital and the Crusher to help you.
Spammy HH play only works in Low Rank because monsters flinch and stagger very often. Once they reached High Rank, spammy players would notice that their playstyle no longer works as well as it did in Low Rank. In my opinion, this could actually be the real reason why we've seen a drop in the weapon usage over time. As Amadeus points out in his Advanced HH Guide, spammy HH play and the Magnificent Trio are actually beginner traps.
The core gameplay of HH is still the same; play methodical and slow until you score a knockdown then hammer away when the monster is knocked down. The spammy nature of stringed combos comes in handy for dealing significant damage to DOWNED MONSTERS. This gives HH a fighting chance in the DPS race which was sorely lacked in previous games' iterations.
If I had anything to complain about HH, its that it may have the worst switch skills out of all the weapons. Echo Mode is great in some situations but Bead of Resonance and Melodic Slap are outright horrible and should never be considered. And my biggest gripe of all is actually the Earthshaker silkdbind move. Earthshaker is your greatest Gauge Filler but it has such a long recovery time and by its very nature (super armor and flinch resistance) it encourages aggressive and reckless play which goes counter to the slow, methodical playstyle that we like.
Agreed. HH has always been my main weapon in the games and you used to see massive drop offs of players using it in high/G rank especially when they realise you can't just go ham on monsters with it. I'm fine with auto recitals, part of the problem late game was getting knocked out of long animations with screw all i-frames leading to alot of 'Corner - Horners' in GU and in World/IB. Honestly all it would take would be to add some variation or longer note button combos in G - rank and/or maybe have them only activate on contact with the monster to incentivise more agressive play, make it more risk reward as really that's all that seems to be missing. Whether they do this or not... who knows? Be nice if they do. It would just be nice to not be the only HH player in a hub in G rank and have other players think you're nothing but a support weapon. Sure, you can be but the buffs are more for the HH player... everyone else if they're close enough gets the afterglow affect of your awesomeness as if you're not in range, you ain't getting no buff buster. The moment you go into a fight thinking you do nothing but mindless button bashing, you're going to find yourself downing potions like they're going out of style. That's not an optimal way to play...
Idk man, i've played through hh in both iceborne and rise up till endgame, and I ended up dropping hh in rise once i beat the game for greatsword since I just wasn't enjoying it at all. I agree that button mashing is a beginner trap, but the weapon has gone from having a complex and strategic playstyle where every tool in your moveset can be used, to a weapon where you repeatedly spam the same attacks over and over.
My main weapons from freedom unite on were HH and SnS but since I started playing the horn in freedom unite I just loved it. There was so much depth in how you do combos to get your buffs, In freedom unite you even had to memorize them and know by heart.
Some years later with Iceborne I fell in love with the horn again, it just had so many songs and options to build and figuring out that sweet sequence where you get all songs in one drawn out combo was the deep machanic of it.
I was quite sad that HH lost that in rise and played more SnS.
I like rise horn too but for me Iceborne horn just hit its identity better.
I just hope the next game from the main team will be more paced like world, where you had more weight and slower moves.
Rise is still a nice game and some nice ideas are present, I just feel like world overall had a better hunting experience.
Nice vid anyway :)
Although I did use hunting horn alot through my rise play being Second to switch axe, I've honestly enjoyed both generations and world hunting horn the most because of the overall weight and feel of it and also having every hunting horn having so much personality with their sounds. Mastering the older style hunting horn felt so rewarding and having people appreciate my skills with it was always a welcoming feeling. Now been using the weapon I started with from the first time I got in game being hammer. It still has that weight that is satisfying to land and still have more weapon options for different situations
For the whole "Fun" section, there's like, 13 other weapons with vastly different playstyles, one which is somewhat close to Hunting horn, but without the music stuff at all; The hammer... Just to name an example. Fun is subjective, and what they've done with the hunting horn is an objective alienation of the existing hunting horn fans, who doesn't really have any similar playstyle to find, anywhere.
that's what I felt, previous game's HH had this whole battle dance with the monster in which you would wait, attack, wait, attack... in which you had to make decisions to what attack to use, rise's horn has a bread and butter combo that you just keep repeating whenever as it's also very fast to use, so very rarely you will need to use other attacks where in previous games you had to know the weapon very well to play effectively
the whole recital thing aswell, world's was very nice as you could use recitals ofensively only if you had a song and by itself and using it offensively was one thing that differentiate corner dooters and HH users, the new one just feels like "play" instead of recital, not to mention encores being gone which combined with the bread and butter combo makes the whole mechanic of having to juggle your songs non-existent, ironic as it may sound I really liked to have the queue system force me to shake the playstyle (and while this is kinda the case with performace mode in rise, it's basically a non-issue there, specially with echo mode which should emulate the feeling of the old HH)
the one thing I like in rise's HH is the infernal melody (not the HH spin tho), it helps making me feel less bad using pure support horns compared to the infamous attack up L that you just had to use to be able to compete with the other bottom tier dps weapons, but not having song levels also means that you can have attack up and affinity on the same horn which kinda defeats the point aswell
I didn't know they did this in Rise. Hunting Horn from World made me fall in love and i only use Hunting Horn and Light Bowgun
As someone new to the series in rise and not played mhw, i always find these videos enlightening
I have fun with the horn as a secondary for sure, but I watch these videos about the older iterations of HH and intrigue of seeing the mechanical depth of songs and recitals and encores. Kinda a bummer to not carry it over to rise :/
Hey, Loot Gremlin from discord. As one who really enjoys HH in Worldborne I honestly haven't really played it in rise. My friend now plays Rise horn, but me personally never got into it. And on a side note, I enjoy the songs the vepoid horn plays. My first horn I grinded for and one of my personal favorites
It's actually insane to me that the director of rise is a supposed hh main... It's like he didn't even get/understand the weapon he's been maiming for presumably years and years and what makes it good. I think you are spot on with pretty much everything you said.
He was so egoistical to act like this. He was just bad at the game so he created something that could take every monster without needing to use his brain.
I'm so so glad you talked about the weight of the hits for th e Horn! I've been saying that forever!👏👏👏
theres a reason old HH no one used. now you can actually attack and not sit there dancing.
I'm sorry for your loss brother.
I dunno, I may be an old HH vet from 4U but I don't have a particular problem with the new HH style, for me its just a lot more fun than standing still and taking unexpected hits. However, I believe in MH6 they could marry the two styles together into a blend where the weapon can be fast but you wanna aim for the slower more tactical hits because they do that much more damage and you could do small buff songs but you wanna build up either a gauge or a good timing to do a full recital for a strong version of each buff.
I could see that happening in the future.
Maybe they did those changes cause no one was playing with HH 😅
Alienating hunting horn mains. So now no one plays.
@@wits_end. The statistics show that a significantly higher percentage of players are using hunting horn now, you're just mad that you're in the minority of players that stopping using it instead of started.
To me as someone who started in world and wanted to use all the weapons my personal least favorite was the HH cause of the following. 1 I hated sitting in one place playing my horn for boost/buffs that would feel like they lasted a minute or two doing no damage 2. In solo hunts it feels like it drags the hunt out a bit compared to other melee weapons especially when you get hit (I get it’s a support but so are other weapons like bowguns or the bow with arc shot) 3. Even after looking at guides I never understood the HH with its encores.
It was a damn shame cause it was so cool of a concept but rise changed my view on it I was able to understand it while understanding other weapons I didn’t have to sit there playing a song doing no damage hoping I didn’t get hit and it was simple to use. While I can feel for older HH players and if anything there’s probably a way for a middle ground where old players can have their version back albeit either a switch skill in sunbreak or in the next game. Personally it’d personally suck if my favorite weapon the SA just got changed that the axe was worthless (maybe not a great comparison but it’s something).
Great videos but as someone who didn’t like old HH this does give me respect for old HH mains and highlights issues about changes to weapons that while I like not everyone does.
I still enjoy the Rise HH, but I agree with a lot of these points. Especially the anemic song list for each horn, the loss of 'impact,' and the timing when fighting using the old horns, I miss that.
On the other hand, the button mashing aside, it being the Dual Blades of blunt weapons? Look at it's reach plus that new attack speed, it's now clearly the Long Sword of blunt weapons with no superdodge/none of the broken DPS moves that make the Long Sword a powerhouse! *Oh, and all of the annoying for fellow hunters since it's reach really goes everywhere now, thanks Magnificent Trio