Lee Shepherd [RIP] was the first to spread the ports AND roll the intake CL upwards. Yards of welding involved. Which required a sheet metal (fabricated) intake as no "as cast" manifold was able to fit the raised&spread ports that made RM's car[s] dominant in '83-'85 Nhra prostock. And Shepherd's driving was termed "fearless" by Bob Glidden😉
@@griffittsgarage hello,Lee shepherd was very good,bob glidden was my hero, this day in time,ihra,nhra, have hurt the prostocks,making run dam old fuel Injection, hurt the sports all over,it's sad shepherd, and glidden has gone,but that's part of life
Eric the first spread port heads were 385 casting developed by EPD and cast at Brodix for Pontiac, they were a 15 deg head and would flow 496@.800 lift.
@@mikasantos3774 I am planing on getting the injection up and running and then going back to the dyno. I have a Micro Squirt on it, I just need to find the time to work on it. I was thinking about building a new intake w dual throttle bodies. It is very restrictive on the intake side.
Really enjoyed seeing this video. I had been curious about the other spread port heads that Brodix makes compared to the 14.5’ heads I’ve been building my big block around. Still have to come up with rocker stands, springs, locks, retainers and locators for mine but I’m gettin there. Pretty sure mine run the same valves you showed here. Bought 2.52 and 1.86 by 6.750 for my setup. Took a little while but recently got my crankshaft back from Mile High in Colorado. Still clearancing my block now that it’s back. Only running a 4.610 bore compared to the 4.625 you mentioned that the engine uses in your video. Wanted to have a little wiggle room in the future in case of a blow up but may be kidding myself entirely thinking there’s gonna be enough left to bore and save or sleeve if that ever happens. Haven’t spoken to anyone yet about a camshaft recommendation for mine but should be doing that soon. Don’t know yet how much lift I’ll have enough clearance for, the specs from CP show over 16-1 static compression. As far as the intake I really lucked out by finding a used profiler cast tunnel ram set up for a single 4 fairly cheap. Just had to change the top for dual 4500’s. Working on my oiling system as time permits lately, considering adding extra drains to the backside of the heads to allow me to add AN fittings to promote drainage away from the valve train. Not absolutely sure it’ll be necessary but know my cousin had problems with oil pooling up there with the Pontiac spread ports. I assumed the drains would help with avoiding oil drain back in the valley creating windage. Still have some more machine work I’ve got to do going along with the fitment prior to final assembly but may be contacting you in the future at Weingartner Racing Eric. Been busy working on backhoes and skid loader hydraulics lately but getting back to it soon. Again, great video and really informative.
On the intake valve does the extra margin on the titanium valve change the low, or is it more noticeable on the exhaust? Or, does it only matter on the what the opposed valve to what you have open has that effects the lower flow because it adds shrouding?
Nice videos and very informative. I'd love to see what think about the CID DM 500 CNC Ported Symmetrical Port Big Block Chevy heads. Any chance you could review them ?
Eric, without using Titanium valves and other exotica, where does Brodix get off charging so much for these? They're made of the same stuff as regular aluminum heads. The pattern making and foundry process is the same. The machining is the same. They may have more engineering time in them, but it's all done on computers now. So what makes em so expensive?
The tooling to make this head casting costs about 150k. These heads because they are so exotic Brodix is not going to sell near as many as the regular heads. So in order for them to make their money back they have to charge more. From material stand point it has about 10lbs more aluminum in them than normal heads and also better seat material as well. That adds up the cost.
The 632 head is symmetrical unlike this meaning all ports are exactly alike. There is no short port or long port. I saw it at pri it looks small but they we’re targeting a different rpm band. In all out power this one would win because of size and flow as long as the engine needed it.
@@juliennacer8871 whatever coatings Victory use. Every brand has their proprietary coatings but mine are Victory valves I was concerned about for street miles.
I don’t know why you would order uncoated valves. I only order coated titanium valves usually crn coated. Uncoated you are just throwing away money. Coating costs more but you are not buying new valves a year or so later.
@@WeingartnerRacing I didnt order these. I bought a complete set of heads from a guy that was not a "cheap" guy. I took the heads to get checked out before I put them on my new motor. When I mentioned street use he was concerned about longetivity of the valves as he did not believe the valves were coated. Maybe they are? I was just wondering if they happened to not be coated how long should they last?
Great video eric, great head, it would probably be a bigger effort on the long runner, less on short, to port them to end up getting a closer/even 8 inlet ports.. I have seen some12* Profilers that flow 560cfm with a smaller valve,approx 2.425" 2.450"...i very decent serve of porting on inlets...
Bogus Numbers , .....LOOK at all the .....Lift/Dia ..Multiply L/D x 2.520" = Lift ......Valve Lift #'s are High, High, 1.000" is Real 1.249" Lift - 540 Cfm , .....900 is Real 1.125" Lift - 531 Cfm , .800 is Real.997" Lift -505 Cfm , .700 is Really .874" Lift - 464 Cfm , ETC................ Pushrod Pinch is 4.40 Sq In Cross Section........ for 2.520 "Valve @ 94% of throat = 4.40 Sq In Cross Section = 480 Cfm
@@MrKawa74 4.4” of area can flow 642cfm at 28” test pressure. That 2.52” valve with a 90% throat minus the area used by the valve stem can flow 576cfm, 91% throat 589cfm I don’t see how you have ended up with 480cfm 🤷♂️
Thanks for the reply, I’m building a 600” bbc with f3 136 and was curious about the 14.5* heads…I think I’ll try to find a set, I’m assuming they’re great for boost as well?
The 632 heads have raised ports. So do these. Another head to check out is the Edelbrock BV3. Having less of a bend by running raised ports gives you better air density.
Good call!!! Hell there are some small block heads that do better. Ported Cleveland and Ported LS3 and LS7 heads can make 230 cfm @ .300" and 160@.200".
Costs big money to go really fast! Well unless you cheat and buy an L/S and put some giant turbos on it. I'm old school, the more cubic inches is better! No replacement for displacement, well unless you buy an LS and throw a couple giant turbos on it!
I like how the thumbnail is of a set of what looks to be 23° sbc heads. Edit. Ya. Those .400 numbers arent great especially considering its a huge valve. I know the 55 degree seat really isn't helping much but it still seems kind of weak
I find gasket matching humorous. So let’s design and cast a head and meticulously design the valve train and flow then screw the hole thing up by matching the ports to a gasket that some draftsman drew up that has absolutely nothing to do with the port layout. My gaskets are made to match the ports not the other way around.
Why is it so expensive? Ok maybe exotic seats? I don't see where this cost any more to produce than say an Eddy petf rpm big block head. Is it R&D? How can one company produce and sell a head for $1500 and this is over 5k? I can see the valve train going up in price valve train can vary widely but a head better design or not it's just a casting.... especially an as cast. Are they just charging what they do because they can so if you want it you gotta give em what they want or tuff titty
Seems ungodly expensive...I'll put up my bbc afr 335 468ci with it's v7 ysi blower again anyone that buys that combo...lol JK but I did build entire combo for less than the heads are
This is the type of head you’re going to see on a 11.2 deck 4.84 bore space bbc making 1200-1400hp before spraying nitrous and 2500+ after a couple kits. The engine it’s self is likely to be $50k+.
I agree, I don’t quite understand buying this head with steel valves. This is the type of head you get into right before you start looking at billet heads & intakes. This should be on a 8000+rpm 11.2 deck 4.84 700+ci engine pushing 2500-3000hp on nitrous. If that’s not what you’re using these for, then you’re wasting money and would have been better off with a set of SR20’s.
@@my87z28 You can definitely use them for smaller n/a engines in the 582 to 632 range. They are good heads for n/a engines making 1200-1400 hp. We also see them used in some 1200-1500 hp blown powerboat engines, but soluble the advent of the 20 degree heads and the Profiler 430’s, there are simpler and better solutions. But if you are in an n/a class or nitrous, they are strong runners. I just don’t get saving a bit on valves for something that will never be built for longevity. I can sort of see it if they weee for a pleasure boat engine, but then it’s a very 90’s way of trying to make “reliable” power. And for a drag and drive style engine, the 12 degree stuff is just kind of off.
@@AB-80X that’s kind of my point. Eric did a set of BB3 extra’s, with his port work they are now around 380cc and flowed nearly 460cfm on his Saenz bench. The plan for them is at first on a NA 582 that’s should make around 1050-1100hp. Then later 1400-1500 on a mild hit of nitrous. We went with these heads to keep the budget moderate, not to mention, we had already ordered everything for the shortblock, so going 20* couldn’t happen without changing the pistons. If I were to have stretched the budget a bit, I would have gone with a set of ported BRX/SR20’s. We’d of seen around another 50-60cfm and likely pushed for closer to 1200hp. For the cost of these heads Eric has, along with the shaft rockers, I’d hope you’re looking to make quite a bit more power. Otherwise, financially, it just doesn’t make much sense to not go with the SR20’s. Most all conventional headed race classes, that I’ve seen, allow the 20* stuff.
@@my87z28 a 700 cube engine at 8000rpm has a cfm demand of 684cfm, this cylinder head is absolutely nowhere near enough head for anything close to that 😂
@@seanb250, So, by your metric, that would mean Eric's 565, spinning 7600-7800rpm would require 524- 538CFM. Maybe you should ask Eric if the ported BB3 Extra heads on his 565 flow anywhere near 524-538cfm. Again, by your metric, that would mean that my 582 would require 526cfm at 7400rpm. I can assure you, as I have the flow sheet from Eric, that my heads don't flow 526cfm. Hell, by your metric a set of SR20's wouldn't even flow enough cfm to satisfy mine or Eric's engines at the rpm they have been designed for. And yet here we are, and I could show you countless 632's running out of the box SR20s, spinning 8000rpm. But according to you, that's impossible, seeing a 632 at 8000rpm would require 618cfm. A full 100cfm more than SR20s produce out of the box.
Have you ever Flowed the newer Pro Mod hemi heads that came out back in 2014. They have been Dominating the class since and make about 5400 hp. Compared to Chevys 4500 hp. In the same class . Some of the 405 guy's are running a hemi type engine in their chevy car .
They chances of me ever seeing those is very remote. Proline and others keep those heads done in house. I think they even have contracts to no allow them to be worked on anywhere but proline.
i was thinking maybe the hemi exhaust port being directly across from the intake could initially pull the intake charge in better than any non hemi design resulting in better cylinder filling regardless of static intake flow numbers. anyone?
Thanks for the information Eric! This is as close to a set of these most of us will ever get.
Thanks for watching
Lee Shepherd [RIP] was the first to spread the ports AND roll the intake CL upwards. Yards of welding involved.
Which required a sheet metal (fabricated) intake as no "as cast" manifold was able to fit the raised&spread ports that made RM's car[s] dominant in '83-'85 Nhra prostock.
And Shepherd's driving was termed "fearless" by Bob Glidden😉
My childhood hero RIP Lee Shepherd
@@griffittsgarage hello,Lee shepherd was very good,bob glidden was my hero, this day in time,ihra,nhra, have hurt the prostocks,making run dam old fuel Injection, hurt the sports all over,it's sad shepherd, and glidden has gone,but that's part of life
Haven't built an engine in 35 yrs, but still enjoy all the info!
Eric the first spread port heads were 385 casting developed by EPD and cast at Brodix for Pontiac, they were a 15 deg head and would flow 496@.800 lift.
Did u ever keep tabs on that stroked fiero 2.5l engine if it got all sorted out I would love to see another dyno video of that project
@@mikasantos3774 I am planing on getting the injection up and running and then going back to the dyno. I have a Micro Squirt on it, I just need to find the time to work on it. I was thinking about building a new intake w dual throttle bodies. It is very restrictive on the intake side.
@@racerd9669 can't wait to see her rip
Have a great day
😳
@@DavidStirm gf
Thanks for the video, all the best to you and your loved ones
Thanks merry Christmas
That's one awesome head!
Great video
In 1995 we made DRCE heads for P/S 4.900 bore spacing
2.625 size intake valve 55
deg seats
Lots of work
Crazy what u can buy now
Great content thanks for sharing
Really enjoyed seeing this video. I had been curious about the other spread port heads that Brodix makes compared to the 14.5’ heads I’ve been building my big block around. Still have to come up with rocker stands, springs, locks, retainers and locators for mine but I’m gettin there. Pretty sure mine run the same valves you showed here. Bought 2.52 and 1.86 by 6.750 for my setup. Took a little while but recently got my crankshaft back from Mile High in Colorado. Still clearancing my block now that it’s back. Only running a 4.610 bore compared to the 4.625 you mentioned that the engine uses in your video. Wanted to have a little wiggle room in the future in case of a blow up but may be kidding myself entirely thinking there’s gonna be enough left to bore and save or sleeve if that ever happens. Haven’t spoken to anyone yet about a camshaft recommendation for mine but should be doing that soon. Don’t know yet how much lift I’ll have enough clearance for, the specs from CP show over 16-1 static compression. As far as the intake I really lucked out by finding a used profiler cast tunnel ram set up for a single 4 fairly cheap. Just had to change the top for dual 4500’s. Working on my oiling system as time permits lately, considering adding extra drains to the backside of the heads to allow me to add AN fittings to promote drainage away from the valve train. Not absolutely sure it’ll be necessary but know my cousin had problems with oil pooling up there with the Pontiac spread ports. I assumed the drains would help with avoiding oil drain back in the valley creating windage. Still have some more machine work I’ve got to do going along with the fitment prior to final assembly but may be contacting you in the future at Weingartner Racing Eric. Been busy working on backhoes and skid loader hydraulics lately but getting back to it soon. Again, great video and really informative.
those valves are so tight in there
cool Brodix head
On the intake valve does the extra margin on the titanium valve change the low, or is it more noticeable on the exhaust? Or, does it only matter on the what the opposed valve to what you have open has that effects the lower flow because it adds shrouding?
In theory I guess a feller would want those ones! Paired with the correct valve train events obviously.
That's an insane head
The flow on the intakes is perfectly linear . All the way . Amazing . If you double lift you double flow .
Nice videos and very informative. I'd love to see what think about the CID DM 500 CNC Ported Symmetrical Port Big Block Chevy heads. Any chance you could review them ?
Be better off with symmetrical port heads rs-x?
One thing you forgot to mention was induction, that ain’t gonna be cheap either, lol.
Is it possible to flow that same head with a flatter valve, to see what difference the valve profile makes?
If I had others I might have tried.
Are those Edelbrock Big Victors in the background? The ones with the rotated valves?
Nice, is this the same port configuration as the new 632 from Chevrolet that makes 1000 horsepower NA?
No. That one is symmetrical meaning all the ports are exactly the same. There is no long and short port.
Eric, without using Titanium valves and other exotica, where does Brodix get off charging so much for these? They're made of the same stuff as regular aluminum heads. The pattern making and foundry process is the same. The machining is the same. They may have more engineering time in them, but it's all done on computers now. So what makes em so expensive?
The tooling to make this head casting costs about 150k. These heads because they are so exotic Brodix is not going to sell near as many as the regular heads. So in order for them to make their money back they have to charge more. From material stand point it has about 10lbs more aluminum in them than normal heads and also better seat material as well. That adds up the cost.
@@WeingartnerRacing Oh. What special tooling is required that was isn't used on mainstream heads?
@@jeffrykopis5468 none but to make a new mold required for this head is about 150k. The machine time is also up to run these heads.
How does this compare to a Zz632 head, I heard they flowed around 500 cfm?
Good question, any input Eric? Is chevy selling the topend package separate?
The 632 head is symmetrical unlike this meaning all ports are exactly alike. There is no short port or long port. I saw it at pri it looks small but they we’re targeting a different rpm band. In all out power this one would win because of size and flow as long as the engine needed it.
@@WeingartnerRacing Thanks Eric
Hey are uncoated Titanium’s a issue on the street? I had heard they may not be a good idea.
what coating are you referring to?
@@juliennacer8871 whatever coatings Victory use. Every brand has their proprietary coatings but mine are Victory valves I was concerned about for street miles.
I don’t know why you would order uncoated valves. I only order coated titanium valves usually crn coated. Uncoated you are just throwing away money. Coating costs more but you are not buying new valves a year or so later.
@@WeingartnerRacing I didnt order these. I bought a complete set of heads from a guy that was not a "cheap" guy. I took the heads to get checked out before I put them on my new motor. When I mentioned street use he was concerned about longetivity of the valves as he did not believe the valves were coated. Maybe they are? I was just wondering if they happened to not be coated how long should they last?
Now if you could only get that flow out of the Cadillac aluminum head
Great video eric, great head, it would probably be a bigger effort on the long runner, less on short, to port them to end up getting a closer/even 8 inlet ports.. I have seen some12* Profilers that flow 560cfm with a smaller valve,approx 2.425" 2.450"...i very decent serve of porting on inlets...
Eric, as always hella interesting! Brodix is advertising a "Maneater Head." Have you had a chance to test them?
I have never tested them.
45cfm difference between the ports up top 😳 what is the primary factor for that?
Bogus Numbers , .....LOOK at all the .....Lift/Dia ..Multiply L/D x 2.520" = Lift ......Valve Lift #'s are High, High, 1.000" is Real 1.249" Lift - 540 Cfm , .....900 is Real 1.125" Lift - 531 Cfm , .800 is Real.997" Lift -505 Cfm , .700 is Really .874" Lift - 464 Cfm , ETC................
Pushrod Pinch is 4.40 Sq In Cross Section........ for 2.520 "Valve @ 94% of throat = 4.40 Sq In Cross Section = 480 Cfm
@@MrKawa74 4.4” of area can flow 642cfm at 28” test pressure.
That 2.52” valve with a 90% throat minus the area used by the valve stem can flow 576cfm, 91% throat 589cfm
I don’t see how you have ended up with 480cfm 🤷♂️
How would these compare to the brodix head hunter 395 Mc cnc with extra work?
These are still much better.
Thanks for the reply, I’m building a 600” bbc with f3 136 and was curious about the 14.5* heads…I think I’ll try to find a set, I’m assuming they’re great for boost as well?
When those zz632 heads hit the market, I’d be interested in what you had to say about those.
They are out. They are smallish. I don’t know if they have the material to make them larger to match the output of these heads.
@@WeingartnerRacing oh? Interesting, I figured all the cc’s we’re from the length of the runner like you said in this video.
@@morganpowell2999 that plays a part but the port is also larger than the 632 especially bowl and short side.
@@WeingartnerRacing thank you for the replies, very informative.
The 632 heads have raised ports. So do these. Another head to check out is the Edelbrock BV3. Having less of a bend by running raised ports gives you better air density.
Ouch $$$$$
I am shocked at the low lift numbers. 1-.300 lift is not much different than a conventional small block head. How do these compare to the big dukes?
The back cut on the valves or lack thereof killed the low lift flow.
@@WeingartnerRacing dont forget the 8-12 degree back angle with a much flatter valve...good vids Eric...
Good call!!! Hell there are some small block heads that do better. Ported Cleveland and Ported LS3 and LS7 heads can make 230 cfm @ .300" and 160@.200".
Costs big money to go really fast! Well unless you cheat and buy an L/S and put some giant turbos on it. I'm old school, the more cubic inches is better! No replacement for displacement, well unless you buy an LS and throw a couple giant turbos on it!
16000 for these heads with rockers
I like how the thumbnail is of a set of what looks to be 23° sbc heads.
Edit. Ya. Those .400 numbers arent great especially considering its a huge valve. I know the 55 degree seat really isn't helping much but it still seems kind of weak
Yep I fixed that.
Is that 5200 $ a piece
A pair
I have actually flowed a bigger head, The bodix 9 degree head and it flowed 589 big heads.
I had one in the pick. If I ever get time to port it it may be up there.
You can run 1 inch lift on a cadillac 500 engine.
Please do a follow up video after you massage them.
I didn’t get to port these.
4700 each jegs
5200 each or for both. Each
Both
475 cfm
Comments about sb cleveland heads are hilarious. Its not 1970 anymore
I find gasket matching humorous. So let’s design and cast a head and meticulously design the valve train and flow then screw the hole thing up by matching the ports to a gasket that some draftsman drew up that has absolutely nothing to do with the port layout. My gaskets are made to match the ports not the other way around.
Yes but most good heads have a special gasket made just for that port.
Off in not off ten
Won't fit a stock block bore
No
Double it in Australia
You have that the wrong way around.
Why is it so expensive? Ok maybe exotic seats? I don't see where this cost any more to produce than say an Eddy petf rpm big block head. Is it R&D? How can one company produce and sell a head for $1500 and this is over 5k? I can see the valve train going up in price valve train can vary widely but a head better design or not it's just a casting.... especially an as cast. Are they just charging what they do because they can so if you want it you gotta give em what they want or tuff titty
They have to recover the cost of the tooling to make the molds. They are not going to sell as many as the basic heads so they have to charge more.
Seems ungodly expensive...I'll put up my bbc afr 335 468ci with it's v7 ysi blower again anyone that buys that combo...lol JK but I did build entire combo for less than the heads are
This is the type of head you’re going to see on a 11.2 deck 4.84 bore space bbc making 1200-1400hp before spraying nitrous and 2500+ after a couple kits. The engine it’s self is likely to be $50k+.
Start spending that kind of money, you're better off going to the MBE Big9 heads.
Maybe but they are about another 4k.
These heads won't work well on a n a motor
Not true
Forced induction head
No
I’m sorry but if you buy that head with steel valves, you can’t afford that head. Hate when people try to make everything on the cheap.
I agree, I don’t quite understand buying this head with steel valves. This is the type of head you get into right before you start looking at billet heads & intakes. This should be on a 8000+rpm 11.2 deck 4.84 700+ci engine pushing 2500-3000hp on nitrous. If that’s not what you’re using these for, then you’re wasting money and would have been better off with a set of SR20’s.
@@my87z28
You can definitely use them for smaller n/a engines in the 582 to 632 range. They are good heads for n/a engines making 1200-1400 hp. We also see them used in some 1200-1500 hp blown powerboat engines, but soluble the advent of the 20 degree heads and the Profiler 430’s, there are simpler and better solutions. But if you are in an n/a class or nitrous, they are strong runners. I just don’t get saving a bit on valves for something that will never be built for longevity.
I can sort of see it if they weee for a pleasure boat engine, but then it’s a very 90’s way of trying to make “reliable” power. And for a drag and drive style engine, the 12 degree stuff is just kind of off.
@@AB-80X that’s kind of my point. Eric did a set of BB3 extra’s, with his port work they are now around 380cc and flowed nearly 460cfm on his Saenz bench. The plan for them is at first on a NA 582 that’s should make around 1050-1100hp. Then later 1400-1500 on a mild hit of nitrous. We went with these heads to keep the budget moderate, not to mention, we had already ordered everything for the shortblock, so going 20* couldn’t happen without changing the pistons. If I were to have stretched the budget a bit, I would have gone with a set of ported BRX/SR20’s. We’d of seen around another 50-60cfm and likely pushed for closer to 1200hp.
For the cost of these heads Eric has, along with the shaft rockers, I’d hope you’re looking to make quite a bit more power. Otherwise, financially, it just doesn’t make much sense to not go with the SR20’s. Most all conventional headed race classes, that I’ve seen, allow the 20* stuff.
@@my87z28 a 700 cube engine at 8000rpm has a cfm demand of 684cfm, this cylinder head is absolutely nowhere near enough head for anything close to that 😂
@@seanb250, So, by your metric, that would mean Eric's 565, spinning 7600-7800rpm would require 524- 538CFM. Maybe you should ask Eric if the ported BB3 Extra heads on his 565 flow anywhere near 524-538cfm.
Again, by your metric, that would mean that my 582 would require 526cfm at 7400rpm. I can assure you, as I have the flow sheet from Eric, that my heads don't flow 526cfm. Hell, by your metric a set of SR20's wouldn't even flow enough cfm to satisfy mine or Eric's engines at the rpm they have been designed for. And yet here we are, and I could show you countless 632's running out of the box SR20s, spinning 8000rpm. But according to you, that's impossible, seeing a 632 at 8000rpm would require 618cfm. A full 100cfm more than SR20s produce out of the box.
Ugh
What Brand Head Is This ?
Brodix
Have you ever Flowed the newer Pro Mod hemi heads that came out back in 2014. They have been Dominating the class since and make about 5400 hp. Compared to Chevys 4500 hp. In the same class . Some of the 405 guy's are running a hemi type engine in their chevy car .
They chances of me ever seeing those is very remote. Proline and others keep those heads done in house. I think they even have contracts to no allow them to be worked on anywhere but proline.
i was thinking maybe the hemi exhaust port being directly across from the intake could initially pull the intake charge in better than any non hemi design resulting in better cylinder filling regardless of static intake flow numbers. anyone?