Thanks Eric , as always you never disappoint with your findings . Ya , I had crappy experience with P-comp as well , way off seat machining , worn out guides on S block , and pulled stud casting right out on a big chev , so , no more of those , lol .
Eric, thank you for taking the time for this, very professional! I did not realize what a big difference the valves make. I ported a set of World Products Merlin 3 heads. Really easy, there is lots of room on a BBC vs a SBC. If building a BBC I would only buy a head made in the USA. And most of them have raised exhaust ports, this creates nothing but problems. Brodix makes the best BBC head IMO.
I've got the pro max cnc version 352 cc intake with afr 2.35 valves they flowed right around 430 on long runner and 420 short runner around 300 on exhaust pretty sporty head on my 564 ci bbc
Good video Eric. My guess is the ProMaxx intake valve is not back cut. All the ones I have bought never have been. I always do a back cut on them, a little chamber work and some minor short side work on the intake and exhaust and the valve job they come with. All that I have used went on 496 that end up at 10.25 to 1 and have been great. Hydraulic roller camshaft, 9.8xx at 3500lb and run pump swill. The cars are very well set up, so it doesn't take much to get them down the track. Overall a great head. I'm sure you will make anything better than I can.
Really interested in a future review and testing of the Promax oval port 290 head. Hopefully it's a budget solution for a heavy street cruiser. Thanks Eric!
I don't know why people act like American made is better... i just paid DOUBLE what a chinese intake would cost to get a RPM Performer $440 (small block mopar.. Edelbrock screws us just cause they can) And all the holes to bolt it on are .125 too far forward (gasket actually hangs over into the port)... another guy on the mopar forums has 2 victors with the same issue. American made is no better although you pay a lot more... BTW... edelbrocks response is umm yeah.. that's wrong but we have never seen it before (of course) and we can't replace it cause we don't know when we will have one.. sorry.. sorry bout the rant but a bit pissed off bout it still.
@@njclsx4252 They were cool bout it.. but didn't want to believe me even with pics til i showed them the forum post from a professional porter showing the issue
People are misguided about Chinese manufacturing and have been for a couple decades. They will make whatever is required. The importers, distributors and retailers set a price and demand a product built to that price point. The Chinese companies are happy to oblige. That doesn't mean they are cheap, it means the consumers(in our case Americans) are cheap. Chinese companies can and do build top quality up to mil spec or aero-space quality products. Oddly enough, when that spec is called out the price falls right in line with any other world market manufacturer making similar products. They aren't building and putting up satellites on rockets made with harbor freight tooling.
Thanks Eric. Very good information. I would agree with another comment that suggested the same comparison with the SBC. I just had a SBC built by Jeff Taylor Performance and he used Pro Maxx heads. I was not familiar with Pro Maxx and your video answered some questions.
Hey there Eric, I've slowly grown into machining, mostly head rebuilds. I haven't done performance work, but have been trying to learn. I've only been grinding a 45 on my valves, but I have two machines. Would working a 30 degree back cut be worth the 10 or so mins to do while I'm already refacing them? Or would it just be pointless on stock heads? Just seeing if I couldn't improve quality for a customer when possible
always good content, can you throw a vid together on the 185cc SBF chinese head? The 302w's are a good budget builders but are weak on the HP front compared to other engine combos.
As usual always the best information provided. A quick Google search has each promaxx head costing $1,100 dollars more than the AFR enforcer head. AFR is using quality valves and springs. And the flow difference just can't justify the extra price. So does the AFR have a quality or longevity issue? Where it's going to fail and take out the engine? For a Chinese head Promaxx has an insane price tag.
What I've been curious about with alot of these Chinese heads, what actually scares me off of using them, is the thought of the valve seats actually falling out. I've heard of it happening with budget heads for other motors, and even with OEM heads, like the modern hemi engines. Is that an issue with these heads?
Is it depend on what the peak rpm the inlet runner should be .like if you had a 496 and peak power was at 6500 then ypu would what the 320 to 330. .if the peak power was at 7500 then won't you want a 345 to 360 range on ypu intake runner
Eric - what is the max cubic inch you would run the 317's on? I have a 555, flat top piston currently running an old Edelbrock 6055 casting on and have been looking at the Promax 317s.
It is the last time I checked. I do sell it and the afr dual plane was tested in a different video. It is better up top than Edelbrock rpm air gap but not through most of the run.
I would have enjoyed seeing the Flotek included. I am expecting the rest of the parts I need today to be able to assemble them with Ferrea valves for a 489 cu in marine engine I am building for a guy.
ProMaxx and FloTek BBC 290, and 315 (317) models are essentially the same. FloTek does carry a cheaper BBC 320 and 360 which are made by a different manufacture, and not as good. FloTek 290 is a great head on 489-511 cubic inch engines, it's all any reasonable person needs on the street, and will crush many rectangle port heads in average power production below 6800 rpm.
I have a set of promax sbc heads sitting on my bench. Really nice looking, but the guilds have a sloppy egg shaped hone job. The seats are out of round valve job. Heads came assembled, they need new guilds and seats . They will basically need to be rebuilt never ran. Piss poor machine work but no one actually checks. But nice castings.
Also wanted to point out that Promaxx’s % of flow (exhaust cfm/intake cfm) were better than the others. Intake cfm is great but if you can’t get the exhaust out, then what’s the point?
I would like to know if you ever heard of J and c enterprises cylinder heads they have a small block chevy head that sounds pretty good and reasonably priced
Eric, do you or anyone else know anything about the Blueprint BBC head part number PS-8012? it's a Chinese casting with a 358cc runner, 2.30 valve and .300" raised D shaped exhaust port. Wondering how they compare to the Chinese heads you just tested. They also offer a 317cc runner and both retail for $1,299 complete set up for hydraulic roller. It seems possible they may offer more potential then the other Chinese heads with the raised D shape exhaust port when fully ported. It looks like the Blueprint and the ProMax may share the same D port exhaust shape. Just wondering if you guys know anymore about the Blueprint heads?
Can you really get the 317 with a 2.25 valve? I have a set on a 496 I built for a customer and I think they are great, but I haven't seen the 2.25 available anywhere just a 2.30. Are you able to sell the promaxx heads?
I know you’re a busy man, but what are your opinions on helicoils in aluminum heads from the intake manifold holes? You trust those better than just tapped aluminum? Yay or nay.
@@musclebone7875 Sucks for the rest of us that just want a good street head that works below 5k, if they offered an as cast oval port head that flowed even 80% of what their 300 magnum head flows for enforcer prices, they would sell like hot cakes…
Equal ports are easier to tune, get the most from each of the 8 cylinders. Race teams in NASCAR and NHRA pro stock look at the engine as (8) 1 cylinder engines and try to tune each one for optimal and equal power production. DRCE heads have the ports raised way up, and are a completely different animal to the conventional BBC heads street folks use. In recent years Pro Stock teams have been also making their ports smaller, due to RPM limits, and fuel injection.
@@donavan2676 I understand what the trend is but why did they not chose the port that points to the center of the cylinder? Eric thinks that port is much better, he keeps saying that.
@@racerd9669 DRCE heads do not have stock valve locations, angles, or chamber design. Most have very small combustion chambers with the valves stood up, so the port design is not comparable either. DRCE heads were originally designed to get better alignment between the valve and the carburetor booster. Basically nothing about conventional BBC heads is comparable to DRCE. The heads GM is putting on their new 632 (RSX) are more like DRCE, but still 4.840 bore spacing, not 4.900 like DRCE.
@@donavan2676 I understand all of that, but the port still points at the cylinder wall, maybe Ford new something about port design that GM did not. GM could have reworked the DRC head so the port pointed at the cylinder CL but they did not. Maybe Eric can tell us more.
@@donavan2676 How about for a BBC ?? I have them on my motor now it made just shy of 850 hp ...was just wondering if for a few more $$ another head would have made a big difference !!
@@donavan2676 I wouldn't buy them as anything but a bare casting to build but they are the supplier for skip white lots of circle track guys run them for a season then just have another set built for the next season and leave the old ones at the machinist or sell them for a couple hundred bucks as is we know they are soft chineseum castings
@@79huddy Like Eric said, don't waste your money, buy the better castings and then build them. The FloTek 290, 315, and expensive 360 (they have a cheap 360 too that is junk) are really good castings to build from, IMO the best value BBC castings on the market. AFR CNC heads are great, but many people cannot afford their CNC heads, FloTek gets you similar performance for less $$
I have found that only Ben Alameda answers my questions. Uncle Tony ignores, Richard Holdner drops a smart ass condescending comment and you seem too busy. I build motors and have worked for one of the best...Ed Pink, and consider myself somewhat knowledgeable but am always thirsty to learn. RUclips has disappointed
@Eric Weingartner No worries brother, I wish you all the best and will continue to watch as I've learned plenty about porting from you and it's appreciated very much. 45 years as a machinist, i can put together a stout motor but a bit of a rookie with the magic involving cylinder head and manifold modifications. Keep doing what ya do. Thanks
Lmao..their the same, no they are not the same, yes in fact their the sme head. They really aren't the same head. Their dfinatly are not the same head.
Chinese materials are junk. The aluminum, the valves, springs, retainer etc. Might look the same. But don't buy that crap. No engine parts. Hoses are junk,clamps,quality is all junk.
So as always buy them bare, put good stuff in them..
Thanks Eric , as always you never disappoint with your findings .
Ya , I had crappy experience with P-comp as well , way off seat machining , worn out guides on S block , and pulled stud casting right out on a big chev , so , no more of those , lol .
Good information. Thanks for taking time to post it up.
Eric, thank you for taking the time for this, very professional! I did not realize what a big difference the valves make. I ported a set of World Products Merlin 3 heads. Really easy, there is lots of room on a BBC vs a SBC. If building a BBC I would only buy a head made in the USA. And most of them have raised exhaust ports, this creates nothing but problems. Brodix makes the best BBC head IMO.
Brodix Race Rite line has standard exhaust port heights.
I've got the pro max cnc version 352 cc intake with afr 2.35 valves they flowed right around 430 on long runner and 420 short runner around 300 on exhaust pretty sporty head on my 564 ci bbc
Very informative. Would really like to see a similar comparison for some of the SBC heads available.
Thank you MR ERIC for all the video's you give us to watch
Good video Eric. My guess is the ProMaxx intake valve is not back cut. All the ones I have bought never have been. I always do a back cut on them, a little chamber work and some minor short side work on the intake and exhaust and the valve job they come with. All that I have used went on 496 that end up at 10.25 to 1 and have been great. Hydraulic roller camshaft, 9.8xx at 3500lb and run pump swill. The cars are very well set up, so it doesn't take much to get them down the track. Overall a great head. I'm sure you will make anything better than I can.
Really interested in a future review and testing of the Promax oval port 290 head. Hopefully it's a budget solution for a heavy street cruiser.
Thanks Eric!
Exact same head as the FloTek 290, made by the same guy. They are great heads...
Yes,same here. Im looking at those for a 427 build in a 67 Chevelle
I got AFR 325 w/cnc bowls .700 roller springs for like 1789 a few years back. Tony said they typically pour around 317.
Good review Eric.
It is all very interesting.
Thanks for sharing.
Take care, Ed.
Eric thanks for doing some big block stuff. Love the small block but my jet boat is big block and it’s a kick in the ass to drive
Fun is a blown and injected Cole v-drive runner bottom. Gives us something to learn and do with your feet which is a lot more fun.
Eric you have a lot of really great videos with so much knowledge on these aftermarket heads keep up with this type of information thanks GODSPEED
What does God speed mean anyway?
Thanks
@@WeingartnerRacing Seems like you would just say thank you. No biggie Thank You for getting back to me I like your videos
@shane rice GOD Prosper you too wish you success.
Wish every one was that honest about the castings. So many private label yongyu and cfl castings now.
I don't know why people act like American made is better... i just paid DOUBLE what a chinese intake would cost to get a RPM Performer $440 (small block mopar.. Edelbrock screws us just cause they can) And all the holes to bolt it on are .125 too far forward (gasket actually hangs over into the port)... another guy on the mopar forums has 2 victors with the same issue. American made is no better although you pay a lot more...
BTW... edelbrocks response is umm yeah.. that's wrong but we have never seen it before (of course) and we can't replace it cause we don't know when we will have one.. sorry.. sorry bout the rant but a bit pissed off bout it still.
Seems to be the common rebuttal now days,we never seen this or never had this happen.......
@@njclsx4252 They were cool bout it.. but didn't want to believe me even with pics til i showed them the forum post from a professional porter showing the issue
People are misguided about Chinese manufacturing and have been for a couple decades.
They will make whatever is required. The importers, distributors and retailers set a price and demand a product built to that price point. The Chinese companies are happy to oblige.
That doesn't mean they are cheap, it means the consumers(in our case Americans) are cheap.
Chinese companies can and do build top quality up to mil spec or aero-space quality products. Oddly enough, when that spec is called out the price falls right in line with any other world market manufacturer making similar products.
They aren't building and putting up satellites on rockets made with harbor freight tooling.
Great information! Thank for sharing your research.
Thanks for watching.
Thanks Eric. Very good information. I would agree with another comment that suggested the same comparison with the SBC. I just had a SBC built by Jeff Taylor Performance and he used Pro Maxx heads. I was not familiar with Pro Maxx and your video answered some questions.
I have done many videos on the Chinese SBC heads. I just didn't put them together.
@@WeingartnerRacing Thanks I will look for them.
Hey there Eric, I've slowly grown into machining, mostly head rebuilds. I haven't done performance work, but have been trying to learn. I've only been grinding a 45 on my valves, but I have two machines.
Would working a 30 degree back cut be worth the 10 or so mins to do while I'm already refacing them? Or would it just be pointless on stock heads?
Just seeing if I couldn't improve quality for a customer when possible
Back cut is always worth it.
Have you lapped the valves to see where they are positioned ? Only way to know.
Hey ERIC ,, great vid! I never realized BB head runners are short and long
always good content, can you throw a vid together on the 185cc SBF chinese head? The 302w's are a good budget builders but are weak on the HP front compared to other engine combos.
Need a video on SBC cheap ebay heads like DNA motoring ect!
He's already done it
Hello, Sharpie marker to mark which head is which, sometimes we loose track of the heads.
Probably on a head to head basis, and different between each one
Great info thanks !
Awesome information..thanks
As usual always the best information provided. A quick Google search has each promaxx head costing $1,100 dollars more than the AFR enforcer head. AFR is using quality valves and springs. And the flow difference just can't justify the extra price. So does the AFR have a quality or longevity issue? Where it's going to fail and take out the engine? For a Chinese head Promaxx has an insane price tag.
I think you looked at the prices wrong. Promaxx is not that much more than the enforcer but it is a superior head.
Thats a nice pair of AFR heads 😉
What I've been curious about with alot of these Chinese heads, what actually scares me off of using them, is the thought of the valve seats actually falling out. I've heard of it happening with budget heads for other motors, and even with OEM heads, like the modern hemi engines. Is that an issue with these heads?
Is it depend on what the peak rpm the inlet runner should be .like if you had a 496 and peak power was at 6500 then ypu would what the 320 to 330. .if the peak power was at 7500 then won't you want a 345 to 360 range on ypu intake runner
Eric - what is the max cubic inch you would run the 317's on? I have a 555, flat top piston currently running an old Edelbrock 6055 casting on and have been looking at the Promax 317s.
is the AFR BBC 265cc head made in the USA and do you sell it. And how good is the AFR BBC dual plane intake manifold
It is the last time I checked. I do sell it and the afr dual plane was tested in a different video. It is better up top than Edelbrock rpm air gap but not through most of the run.
I would have enjoyed seeing the Flotek included. I am expecting the rest of the parts I need today to be able to assemble them with Ferrea valves for a 489 cu in marine engine I am building for a guy.
ProMaxx and FloTek BBC 290, and 315 (317) models are essentially the same. FloTek does carry a cheaper BBC 320 and 360 which are made by a different manufacture, and not as good. FloTek 290 is a great head on 489-511 cubic inch engines, it's all any reasonable person needs on the street, and will crush many rectangle port heads in average power production below 6800 rpm.
A better question might be "Are there any good Chinese products at all?"
I have a set of promax sbc heads sitting on my bench. Really nice looking, but the guilds have a sloppy egg shaped hone job. The seats are out of round valve job. Heads came assembled, they need new guilds and seats . They will basically need to be rebuilt never ran. Piss poor machine work but no one actually checks. But nice castings.
Also wanted to point out that Promaxx’s % of flow (exhaust cfm/intake cfm) were better than the others. Intake cfm is great but if you can’t get the exhaust out, then what’s the point?
I would like to know if you ever heard of J and c enterprises cylinder heads they have a small block chevy head that sounds pretty good and reasonably priced
I have not so I looked them up. There heads are so cheap.
Right on
Eric, do you or anyone else know anything about the Blueprint BBC head part number PS-8012? it's a Chinese casting with a 358cc runner, 2.30 valve and .300" raised D shaped exhaust port. Wondering how they compare to the Chinese heads you just tested. They also offer a 317cc runner and both retail for $1,299 complete set up for hydraulic roller. It seems possible they may offer more potential then the other Chinese heads with the raised D shape exhaust port when fully ported. It looks like the Blueprint and the ProMax may share the same D port exhaust shape. Just wondering if you guys know anymore about the Blueprint heads?
I have no idea on them.
So….. go with the Brodix 1203 CNC. Thank you.
It’s a good idea.
Can you really get the 317 with a 2.25 valve? I have a set on a 496 I built for a customer and I think they are great, but I haven't seen the 2.25 available anywhere just a 2.30. Are you able to sell the promaxx heads?
I sell the promaxx. You can order them with 2.25 valve.
Thankyou!!!!!!!!!!!
I know you’re a busy man, but what are your opinions on helicoils in aluminum heads from the intake manifold holes? You trust those better than just tapped aluminum? Yay or nay.
Yes I’ve done it
So would it be better to get a set of promax 317 on my 496 instead of the dart 345s.
IMO Promax
Eric is there anyway i could get the part numbers for the valves you put in the bravo heads
I don’t know it’s the only one that ferrea sells for them.
I hope AFR offers an enforcer oval port casting some day…
They probably won't! Unfortunately rectangular port heads are the normal selection especially with the bigger cubic inch rat motors.
@@musclebone7875
Sucks for the rest of us that just want a good street head that works below 5k, if they offered an as cast oval port head that flowed even 80% of what their 300 magnum head flows for enforcer prices, they would sell like hot cakes…
@@shitbox82 I agree👍 I'm using 088 rectangular port heads on my mild 496. Ovals do make gobs of torque though.
@@musclebone7875
088 is a good head, very affordable, I’ve seen them on 540’s as well, they work. 👍🏻
Can you port match a 7.4 vortec lower manifold to work on a mk4 bbc with dart 345 heads?
No
THANKS TEACHER. VERY INFORMATIVE
Caps lock is not necessary, Boomer..
@@Headsup9550 time to see your therapist
@@Headsup9550 For ME IT IS
How are the promaxx for sbc.I didn’t see them listed on your website
ProMaxx sells several different styles of SBC heads, some better than others. Project X are the better castings IMO.
why didn't you put the pro max valve in the other heads just to show the difference they don't need to seal because they are open
Because he is comparing them as-is. When you test a product against another product, you don't swap parts between them.
I often wonder why, when GM went to the DRC pro stock engine design, that the DRC head has 8 short ports. What would be the reason for that?
Equal ports are easier to tune, get the most from each of the 8 cylinders. Race teams in NASCAR and NHRA pro stock look at the engine as (8) 1 cylinder engines and try to tune each one for optimal and equal power production. DRCE heads have the ports raised way up, and are a completely different animal to the conventional BBC heads street folks use. In recent years Pro Stock teams have been also making their ports smaller, due to RPM limits, and fuel injection.
@@donavan2676 I understand what the trend is but why did they not chose the port that points to the center of the cylinder? Eric thinks that port is much better, he keeps saying that.
@@racerd9669 DRCE heads do not have stock valve locations, angles, or chamber design. Most have very small combustion chambers with the valves stood up, so the port design is not comparable either. DRCE heads were originally designed to get better alignment between the valve and the carburetor booster. Basically nothing about conventional BBC heads is comparable to DRCE. The heads GM is putting on their new 632 (RSX) are more like DRCE, but still 4.840 bore spacing, not 4.900 like DRCE.
@@donavan2676 I understand all of that, but the port still points at the cylinder wall, maybe Ford new something about port design that GM did not. GM could have reworked the DRC head so the port pointed at the cylinder CL but they did not. Maybe Eric can tell us more.
Why don't dudes in United States make aluminum heads ?
Plenty of beer cans around to make them out of.
You couldn't pay me to use those Chinese Parts on my shitbox
AND YOU FAIL TO REALIZE THAT MOST VERY FEW HEADS ARE CAST IN THE USA.
How does the RHS CNC Pro elite heads compare to these ?? Does anyone here have any experience using them ?? Thanks for the informative videos !!
They are great LS heads, I sell the same heads, under a different brand.
@@donavan2676 How about for a BBC ?? I have them on my motor now it made just shy of 850 hp ...was just wondering if for a few more $$ another head would have made a big difference !!
@@richiec4120 Sorry I am not familiar with RHS BBC heads, but I looked it up online, casting looks like a pro comp.
@@donavan2676 Ok ...Thank You for the reply !! 👍👍
Chinese heads... Are all the surfaces flat that are supposed to be flat?
Those AFR Enforcer BBC, and Skip White head also sold by Liberty for less, it's the old Pro Header head.
The skip white heads can bought direct from Quantico for alot cheaper
@@79huddy I would not buy those heads at any price, cheap junk IMO, I would buy the FloTec or ProMaxx, better design and castings
@@donavan2676 I wouldn't buy them as anything but a bare casting to build but they are the supplier for skip white lots of circle track guys run them for a season then just have another set built for the next season and leave the old ones at the machinist or sell them for a couple hundred bucks as is we know they are soft chineseum castings
@@79huddy Like Eric said, don't waste your money, buy the better castings and then build them. The FloTek 290, 315, and expensive 360 (they have a cheap 360 too that is junk) are really good castings to build from, IMO the best value BBC castings on the market. AFR CNC heads are great, but many people cannot afford their CNC heads, FloTek gets you similar performance for less $$
What about BBF? Same comparison?
I rarely see bbf
You never did say the actual price difference
They're made in China. That's all we need to know.
Aren't all aluminum heads Chinese?
is there any good chinese anything???
Algorithm
Why can’t you just say how much each head is from the factory?
Because people watch the videos at different times. So the price might change in months down the road.
I have found that only Ben Alameda answers my questions.
Uncle Tony ignores, Richard Holdner drops a smart ass condescending comment and you seem too busy.
I build motors and have worked for one of the best...Ed Pink, and consider myself somewhat knowledgeable but am always thirsty to learn.
RUclips has disappointed
So what’s the question
@Eric Weingartner
No worries brother, I wish you all the best and will continue to watch as
I've learned plenty about porting from you and it's appreciated very much.
45 years as a machinist, i can put together a stout motor but a bit of a rookie with the magic involving cylinder head and manifold modifications.
Keep doing what ya do. Thanks
Why would anyone buy Chinese junk? Cheaper? Junk is junk!
AND WHERE DO YOU THINK THE HIGHER END AFR BBC HEADS ARE CAST? THEY ALSO COST AROUND $4500 AND WHY DO YOU THINK THE LOW COST ONES ARE JUNK?
Stop buying chinese Heads !!!
MOST ALL HEADS ARE CAST OFFSHORE. YOU ARE AWARE OF THIS I HOPE
Lmao..their the same, no they are not the same, yes in fact their the sme head. They really aren't the same head. Their dfinatly are not the same head.
Chinese materials are junk. The aluminum, the valves, springs, retainer etc. Might look the same. But don't buy that crap. No engine parts. Hoses are junk,clamps,quality is all junk.
And the answer is NO!!!!