Remember when Dallas and Lambert were examining the being, Dallas states "It looks like it's grown right out of the chair" then mentions "The bones are bent outwards, like something exploded from inside", he also remarked how the bones were fossilized, this creature was flesh and bone, not a suit, the being I believe was grown along with the rest of the ship, a bit like a mechanical ship or probe in the future, you would build in an "AI" computer to fly it, perhaps this species grew the ship with everything you see, and the beings sole purpose was flying that ship as a living extension of itself? Whatever humans can imagine an alien species being like, we always tend to run comparisons to our own species, however a species that's evolved on a different world with a different atmosphere would be impossible to comprehend, it would be the most Alien thing ever witnessed.
Nice to see someone who actually understands what the original concept was all about. For starters the whole theme of Gigers artwork is the fusion of organic life with technology. The space jockey was fuzed together in a symbiotic relationship with the control device it operated and the ship in general. It had no legs. It didn't slide in out of that acceleration couch like it was getting into or out of a hot bath. It was a permanent part of the ship. The Nostromo had a central computer MUTHR which controlled the ship. Or Mother as the crew called it. The space jockey serves basically the same purpose only its a much more highly advanced form of technology. An actual living computer if you will. As Giger said of the space jockey painting... ''It has grown into or perhaps out of the chair. And is totally integrated into the machine it operates. One things for sure. It isn't some funky spacesuit with an angry WWE wrestler inside it.
I think it was mentioned either in the original concept, or one of the comics, whatever creature that burst out from this Space Jockey was a special breed of Xenomorph. Probably big, too.
@@nitrokid That's the impression I got. The fact that large alien creature had a hole through it's chest meant a xeno hatched out of it too, and if the jockey was that large imagine how big that xeno must've been..
@@ADB696 agree: Scott's attempt to retcon the space jockey as a spacesuit with the engineer inside of it doomed Prometheus from the start to be a failure. What a way to ruin the original.
I've always liked the idea that the derelict isn't just thousands, but millions of years old, and that this lonely, quiet, desolate place is still just as deadly, and that perhaps long after humans have faded, a completely different species might stumble across the same quiet corner of the galaxy. I like the mystery of the pilot. I don't think it's very satisfying to have it be an engineer
@@ProjectACHERON By "ancient engineer" do you mean a race of living Michelangelo sculptures? Whilst I like these giant Michelangelo beings, I much prefered the elephantine being that Giger created based on Dan O'Bannon's orginal concept rather than where Scott took it for Prometheus.
The reason the stuff doesn't match up is because Ridley Scott was so determined to make the Space Jockey a guy in a suit instead of another completely alien species that was fossilized, he didn't care about continuity.
Yes he does , this space jockey could be a mutation engineer or david becomes a space jockey or there is a deleted scene in the Prometheus (2012) when david activate the hologram at the translation they said there is another engineer crash on lv426 , it macth up perfectly and indeed a prequel to Alien (1979).
Yep; as much as I LOVE Ridley for his esthetic sense that made Alien what it is -- HE didn't originate Giger's vision but did FIGHT Fox honchos for it -- Ridley blew it with his visual retconning on Prometheus and Covenant.
@@RD-lt3ht Did you also saw david drawing of hid experiment his subject and you can see shaw corps but hen you compare hr giger art the lady they look the same , they're hidden details of hr giger design in the film and that's very honor of his work.
@@whocares8014 Yes, I know that but the "cosmic horror" aspect -- the Lovecraft element, meaning an "unknowable" aspect -- of the mythos is essentially watered down by this idea of just another "rationally-understandable" and even "relatable", essentially HUMAN species, having created -- what is essentially -- a bio-weapon-BUG. For the record, I'm still entertained by both Prometheus and Covenant even though I wish Ridley had made other choices; I RESPECT your defence of your own tastes.❤️
I always thought of the Space Jockey as some kind of cyborg fused with the "chair" in which he's sitting and as Giger said: "totally integrated in the function he performs". He and the ship are the products of an incredibly ancient and advanced (and most probably extinct) alien race that bred its technological creations as biomechanical living beings. The space ship itself looks organic and "skeletonized" by the millennia of abandonment and decay. You can even see irregular "veins" on the exterior surface of the ship. On the inside corridors you can clearly see bones fused with mechanical elements. The Space Jockey and the ship were originally symbiotic biomechanical beings. The whole concept of the engineers is BS.
@@randomusernameCallin I think the Xenomorphs should be something far too powerful and alien for the humans to understand and control. They should be the reason the Pilots race is extinct and now it's the humans turn.
@@rojaws1183 That is true. It added to the universe and get away from the human hating ideal that man made them Also it make sense from everything but the new movies that Xenomorphs are old. Also I say the black ooze come from face hugers.
If you look at the teeth of the Space Jockey, you can see jaws and a tongue. Which of course the Engineer helmets in Prometheus don't have at all. Which proves that the Space Jockey isn't an Engineer.
I believe that the Space Jockey was bioengineered to be immune to the 'alien', specifically to pilot a ship filled with them as an ultimate deterrence weapon. That's why his skull joins with his sternum - to prevent the 'alien' from attaching. Space Jockey was bioengineered to do one job, and could not do anything else - being fused to the chair. Something went wrong, though - the 'alien' adapted, and was able to infect him anyway. Knowing he was going to die, he put his ship down on a primordial planet and set a warning beacon to keep everyone away.
I like this explanation. One thing that would still bug me though is how the Nostromo's equipment was still able to tell that it was a warning beacon. Is it ever explained how exactly they were able to determine it was a warning to not go there or where the signal even came from exactly?
@@Ghosthound_X I just assumed that space fairing species would keep track of what was an SOS and what was a Danger Danger signal from every species they encountered. They could have added this one to their database by meeting a species that knew the signal without meeting the species that used it. Anyway, I've also always assumed that they were sent their on purpose - that the company knew about the location, that it was dangerous, and just decided to put them on that course to see what came of it without being spotted heading there with a big military convoy.
@@HeatherSpoonheim Because I was thinking that it would have been cool if we had gotten to see David's war against the Engineers in Alien Awakening that it would have ended with the human protagonist setting off that beacon in the derelict on LV 426 like the story was rumored to go into the planet finally. That would have been a cool way to tie everything together. But the derelict was on LV426 for thousands of years right?
@@Ghosthound_X You are getting into details and extended materials that are beyond my knowledge of the franchise. I really only know Alien and Aliens from the 80's. (was the first one in the 70's?) That sounds really cool, though, to have our relationship with them be some sort of ouroboros loop.
@@HeatherSpoonheim Yes I'm talking about the derelict in the 79 original. I can't remember if it's mentioned in the movie or where it's mentioned how long the ship was crashed there.
When ridley scott made the race of the space jockey into these lame ass, overgrown, pale humanoids in his god awful prequels, I knew the alien franchise was officially dead. One of the best things about the pilot was the mystery surrounding it and not knowing exactly who they were or where they came from or how utterly advanced they were compared to humans. Everything in cinema now has to have some stupid prequel or explanation for something that never needed it, just the ambiguity of it was enough to spark one's imagination.
@@jothishprabu8 Then build a 15 foot tall puppet animatronic. They did it for the dinosaurs in the original jurassic park movies before everything became a stupid CGI clusterf*ck.
Don’t understand why you can’t understand that evolution exists. There were millennia between the jockey and origin of the humans. Large bodies require more energy and resources so evolution would cause bodies to shrink over time, especially when exposed to space.
I really like the theory that Space Jokey was an more ancient species than the engineers, whom they respected to the point of making their technology and suits in the image of the jokey, and the Space Jokey species was the one that created the xenomorph, hence why the image of one is in Prometheus. David simply made his own version of the Xenomorph in the prequels, I think that theory should make everyone happy since now prequels can be enjoyed for what they are the mystery of the Space Jokey from Alien remains intact.
I really like this, and honestly, it makes sense. The frozen look of pain and horror on the jockey's remains is evidence enough that it wasn't just a bio-suit, let alone the massive size difference.
To me, what made the most sense was he was just some unfortunate alien who got fertilized and died in his ship... I hated the effort to tie him to humans
Facts! I hope that in the future his latest work is made null & void & someone does this all over bcuz I hate the idea of the humanoid Engineers & David creating the xenomorphs. That's just a huge lack of creativity.
@@shallah777 I think you may actually get what you wish for in the upcoming Noah Hawley Alien Tv series. It's rumored that will retcon Ridley's Alien movies altogether, and only connect subtly to the original 1979 Film.
If you look closely at the mouth, there are teeth and a tongue. You can even see the lower jaw, meaning that we're actually looking at the skull and not a helmet. There's signs of mummification and fossilization which of course a suit wouldn't do. The Derelict in the 1979 film is different from the one from Prometheus. The 1979 Derelict is more organic, the outside of the ship is more yellowish in color, if it was metal, it would have been reddish and brownish. The Derelict in Prometheus you can TELL is more mechanical because of the color and texture. In the novelization, the pilot was more of an elephantine humanoid instead of a tall albino humanoid. Engineers were never said to be 13 feet. They were only from 8-9 feet, the pilot in Alien 1979 was larger, probably 18 feet. There's even a prop of the Space Jockey was 18 feet. You can also see the difference by the size of the opening where the crew of the Nostromo entered, it is far too large for an Engineer. Edit: Apologies, I meant to say that the Space Jockeys were shown in one of the other novels and not the original Alien novel. I also forgot to mention that the Engineers based their technology off another organism much like how we based our technology off wild animals and natural designs. Meaning that Engineers did indeed base their technology off another race.
They don’t find the pilot in the novelization. Which is funny, because in the novelization of ALIENS Ripley says they did. Alan Dean Foster wrote both, funny he didn’t remember that lol. In the original script STAR BEAST the human crew find the derelict’s pilot, but this was pre Giger.
@SonofEyeaboveall Effoff No not that novel, it's another one. Where if I remember correctly they find a living individual or are told that they once existed at some point. In one of the novels it is stated that the Space Jockeys were elephantine humanoids that were very tall. Sorry if I said Alien 1979 novel, when I meant another novel.
Just a design inconsistency between a gap of 30 years from both movies, the suit is almost identical, the lore is the same, the tech is the same, space jockeys are engineers, maybe just mummified engineers, maybe ancient engineers.
The Space Jockey was intended to be 26ft... in the First Shot when Dallas and Co climb up and walk to the Pilot Chair the Space Jockey would be about 20-22ft Tall. As they used Child Actors The close up Shot the Space Jockey would have been 13-15 ft Tall. The Engineers were intended to be 15ft Tall... then downgraded to 10ft Tall... but again what we ended up with is a 8ft Space Suited Engineers
I think Prometheus misses everything that ALIEN was visually suggesting with the Space Jockey Pilot symbolism - the disturbing possibilities of deep space extraterrestrial bio-machine symbionts: ancient organisms living in symbiosis with another. Which the ALIEN xenomorph represents so well in its chest bursting gestation horror. Prometheus just ignores all the grotesque mystery of the fossilised bio-mechanical fused Space Jockey Pilot, so as to simply shoehorn in their LAME abstract concept of 'planetary life seeding Engineers' in elephantine space suits! ... errgh.
@@TheSCPStudioIn the original film, Dallas even says "it looks like it grew out of the chair". And H.R. giger was known for his bio-mechanical fused creations. Not to mention the alien has metal teeth. The space jockey was part of the ship. Tell me you've never seen the original or paid attention without telling me lol.
Now they've made it so much smaller and boring. We'll never get the dark, biomechanical world that was never explored properly. We just get tall blue men and black goo that does whatever the plot needs it, too.
The Alien franchise was never conceived as such by the original story tellers or by Scott. It was a stand alone story that very successfully delivered on the concept of something "alien". This was the context for the Space Jockey; the story tellers never expected to be required to deliver an explicit rationale for it; it was just something "alien" and unexplained. The initial run of sequels were just cashing in on the success of the original film; even the much lauded "Aliens", which is a very fine piece of filmmaking and told a cracking story, was a bit creaky as a sequel, losing the "alienness" in favour of a fast paced conflict story. The Prometheus and Covenant strands are a clumsy attempt to revisit the alien (i.e. strange and other worldly) context of the original film, and to retrospectively construct a rationale for what was portrayed, not least due to pressure from the fans, who want to believe that there is such a well-formed rationale that is waiting to be revealed. There isn't, and so whatever comes next (if , indeed, there something to come next) may (or may not) be a good piece of film making and of story telling, but it will be at best a clumsy retro-fitted clarification and re-visioning of the nature of the Space Jockey and other aspects of the alien context of the original.
Yep, the whole “warning” message emitted by the derelict ship wrecks the whole notion of a “WMD” species created by the engineers to wipe out humanity.
Thank god someone finally has a brain lol. These people act as if this shit is real and that it needs to be picture perfect lore. It also doesn’t help that people tend to think that what they think is right and shoehorn it into ideas like this. Here’s a simple solution; space jockey is a really old version of the engineers. Evolution shrunk their massive bodies to preserve energy. I mean even us humans look different than only a few hundred thousand years ago, let alone an alien species over millennia. The engineers could’ve even ENGINEERED themselves as a whole to become more survivable. They seemed physically fit. In the end it doesn’t really matter. The Jockey isn’t ever really touched on regardless.
It’s so much better and cooler if the Space Jockey is a completely different and ‘Alien’ race. I enjoy the theories that say that the Space Jockey is part of the ship itself, that the ship is organic and alive. That is very mysterious and otherworldly. I refuse to believe the Space Jockey in Alien is simply a humanoid Engineer.
Thank you for this video. The space jockey has always fascinated me since I first saw this scene as a child. It’s my favourite scene from the whole franchise. It just provoked the idea in my mind that there is most likely, out there somewhere, a long forgotten planet, in a dark and still corner of the an unknown part of the universe, that hasn’t had a foot step on it for thousands or millions of years. Some fossilised remains and ruins of a once technological advanced race, lay in wait on a dark planet, just like space jockey here. The 1970s, 80s films captured this atmosphere so much better than recent films. I’ve never seen Prometheus, but from the clips it kind of ruins the mystery for me. It appears from the feedback, that Ridley didn’t really do much favours for us space jockey lovers. The Alien franchise for me, stops at the beautiful masterpiece that is Alien 3 (I know I’m in the minority there but I love it. Alien and Alien 3 for me). I don’t need all those spin offs and prequels killing the mystery of the routes and origins. The space jockey and his race are better left a mystery for me. Provoking more wonder and daydreaming.
@@anthonysvokos2697 some franchises get spoiled by too much revelation. I liked the mystery here. I don’t want to know where he came from. The space jockey should’ve stayed a secret to keep us thinking. But that’s the beauty of film. I can choose to not watch the spin offs and prequels and keep the mystery :)
What is wrong with people lmao. So weird over a fictional story. Forming opinions without even watching something and then using OTHERS opinions as a basis of your own on top of that. It’s some pathetic and sad behavior tbh. Complete inability to think critically or for yourself. The whole ‘keeping it a mystery’ thing is just a way for you to cope with having terrible opinions. You’re one of those people who can’t accept change because it defiles your original memories in your mind. No story is really better off with less revelation unless you want to preserve your weird child like nostalgia. It’s a MASSIVE issue in todays world though so at least you’re not alone in your broken brain.
Dallas is essentially a truck driver. If he was an archeologist, paleontologist or at this point a xenobiologist I would be more inclined to accept his initial observations as fact.
As I recall, the "Space Jockey" was a drawing by HR Giger which predated ALien the Movie. It was in one of his art-books and also a book on fictional alien space craft as well.
It’s such a shame that Ridley Scott tried to provide a possible explanation as to what the “space jockey” was. The whole point of this discovery in the original film was to create mystery. If we know what it is, it’s no longer alien.
Originally we was going to get a Movie that was more like Aliens and about Xenomorphs (not sure of the Time Line) but then they thought about making a Prequel and to explain the Space Jockey. Ridley Scott maybe in Hindsight would wish it was a Mystery. But he LOST any Creative Control over the Sequel to ALIEN, and so we still had the Mystery of WHERE did the Xenomorph come from and WHO had Created them and WHO was the Space Jockey their Race and Agenda. And so RS had rather had his input on this, rather than leaving it Mystery for the Studio to then ANSWER these either after RS has passed away or is too OLD. And thus he has NO input on them... like he never as far as where to take ALIEN next after 1979
The spacejockey is likely a member of the race that once ruled this galaxy - and the engineers were their slaves. Shaws line "And who made them?" isnt just a coincidence, its a clue that they were created - Nothing is coincidental with Ridley Scott, he puts clues everywhere. The wall mural for example shows domination of a creature...a symbol to how they overthrew the ancient gods. And the movie title refers to the classical mythos of "stealing fire from the gods" - Its likely the engineers stole the fire(mutagen) and used it to revolt.
Nah that's bullshit, Engineers and Space Jockeys are the same species, even Ridley Scott confirmed it, it was just because of the limitations of the CGI at the time that gave the impression that they were bigger.
@@guruxara7994 They weren't the same, dude. There's comics about the Space Jockies, and how they developed hatred for the Xenomorph, so rather than just killing the Xenomorph as they usually did, if they came into contact with them, they decided to study it before studying it became an idea for them, they all had a counsel meeting in one of their spacecrafts, and were tired of eradicating the Xenomorph, they had issues into wiping them out because of human archeologist who travelled to their world, they had contacts with humans before, but didn't inform them about the infestation, they felt it was too much of a hassle to explain the humans about the Xenomorph crisis because it was just going to lead to the humans to more questions.
Refer to the novelisation to Alien: Covenant for an additional point to add to your notes. David talks about eggs which he DIDN'T create but rather found.
You really wanna know? Ok. The Space Jockey is a victim of Ridley's ever growing incompetence and inability to accept a mystery as a mystery. It is Ridley's sheer hubris, arrogance, and lack of real skill these days.
The Jockey in Alien was an absolutely inspired Cosmicist vision from the 1970s. Ripley rolled with the unique visions provided by Giger, as he was a young and very intelligent, very talented director. He recognized the intangible, the mysterious, the literal alien. But as Ridley got older he started losing touch with this genius, his ineffable strangenes and he wanted to fill in the gaps that could not reasonably be filled on. Aging people reject the void, the unknown and they MUST provide answers, even if completely made up. It sucks.
Good video. But I remember reading a short novel in the 90s that said the jockey was a different species and that the Predators were even scared of them.
@@ProjectACHERON awesome! I wonder why people feel the urge to turn away from source material. Thanks for making me feel better about the whole thing 😆
While IT IS CONFIRMED the jockey and engineers are the same, i like to think the jockey is just another form of engineer that is part of the ship. For example, man of steel. You have beings dedicated to perform a single role in society. This alien (engineer) could have been breed just for the sole purpose of flying the ship. 79, they were just trying to create a size reference. I dont think he or any of the studio had ANY plans on creating a future prequel film that shows WHAT these engineer alien specieis really looked like ALIVE.
The idea of the space jockey being a guy in a suit is lame and boring in my opinion. And it doesn’t make any freaking sense. Here’s why: -The color on the Space Jockey in the original Alien is a yellowish bony color, and we can see tissue in the broken rib cage area. -The Space jockey has eye sockets, a mouth with teeth, an organic trunk, fleshy tissue on its chest, a tongue and ribs. These are things a biological creature would have, not a guy in a suit. -How the heck would a Chestburster be able to burst through STEEL METAL?! That’s like a newborn baby being able to bust down a metal door
Prometheus movies were a franchise killer of alien. One of thee greatest mysteries in cinematic history was the space jockey. They should have left it alone the idiots .
7:00 to 9:30 you summed it up well. The (singular) jockey and (plural) engineers share similar tech, but by their different races. Example: 3 separate film franchises centered on lethal aliens, and humans with military backgrounds. "Mac" who survived alien (MacReady) _The Thing_ "Mac" who died by alien _Predator_ "Mac" who was mutated by alien (Takahashi) _Doom_
Though I actually liked Prometheus, I think the best step forward for the franchise would be to make the Engineers a separate race to the Space Jockeys.
I saw Alien when it was 1st released. The space jockey scene was a truly powerful thing to see and comprehend , accompanied by a dramatic music score. However , by far , after all these years , the Alien egg scene was the main object of the derelict ship.
I hated Prometheus because it made the Space Jockey understandable and rational. In Alien the Space Jockey was unknown and unknowable which is much better for existential horror. It was also totally alien. Giger's creation was totally alien in every way - and to have it reduced to a suit to fit a humanoid was a huge let down. So I think Prometheus and Covenent are two big mistakes. They take the mystery out of Alien, and in doing so make it mundane.
Never was a engineer! That was shoe horned in by Scott, because he had nothing else to hold on to while creating the mess of a film. The Engineer was a Fossil, what proves that he’s been dead for millions of years. You can also see a facial structure.
I prefer the idea of Engineers and Space Jockeys being two different species. And agree with you that maybe its like as Shaw put it in Prometheus "Who made them?". The Space Jockeys being gods to the Engineers explains a lot why the Engineers mimic the ships and appearance of the Space Jockey. Space Jockey's were initially meant to be a far older ancient species, and this wasn't just referenced in expanded Alien media, but also in Aliens vs Predator expanded media as well.
Say what you will about Prometheus it's dumb Human Scientists and even Ridley Scott himself, but atleast he tried to explore the bigger picture of who and what are the Space Jockeys. No other director or creative in Hollywood has had the guts to try and explore that.
@Pinko Slink Well you "explore it to a certain point, you can explore the Space Jockeys cause thy were always begging to be explored anyway. What you do is you don't explore the Xenomorphs and just make it where th SJ discovered them eons ago.
@@ShackSalmon Yes, I mean the design of the Engineers was outstanding, those cool bio-suits they had which looked very "biomechanoid" just like the Xenomorphs. Also I gotta say the movie is cleverer than alot of people realize, because all the "dumb shit" that the scientists basically do in the movie, that in of itself can be explained away through Peter Weyland. Meredith Vickers (Weyland's daughter) says that her father was a suspicious man, he basically did not trust anyone not even his own daughter. So Peter Weyland only really hired "Academic Scientists" the types that would get easily scared by new/out of this world discoveries, they would get scared and basically NOT keep a "level head" and end up doing stupid things. Weyland was assured of this because the one's who get scared DONT THINK STRAIGHT and therefore the last thing on their minds, would be to pull a "Denis Nedry" and end up leaking information of what they discover on 223, to other rival Companies for more money. Peter Weyland wanted to keep all the big, historic discoveries of new life on other planets, ALL for himself; he was also so delusional that he believed he could find something that would grant him eternal youth, and to live forever; so he could return back to earth with some dead body of one of the Engineers, or even black goo in those Urns, and become the most powerful individual on the planet. When you watch Prometheus, notice how Peter Weyland was on borrowed time, he's like over a Hundred Years old, and was just hiding out in some secret area of the ship. He sent out his personal assistant - *David-8* to do the job of going out with the mainstream scientist crew, but with his own secret directive, to ultimately find somekind of Alien life, to bring back to Weyland. It's why notice when they go inside the big pyramid/temple facility, and they're walking down those big tunnels, David walks far ahead and from that point he's just acting of his own accord, not really listening to Shaw/Holloway (especially not Holloway lol). David quickly learns how to activate the Door panel, that had that weird gooey substance smeared on the control panel. David then opens the door without ever waiting for orders from Shaw, and when they get inside, David is just straight away doing his own thing, when he's inspecting the Urns. The Prometheus Crew were always expendable, Peter Weyland wanted non-believers, which was what Fifield and Millburn were, as soon as Fifield saw the body of that giant, dead "Engineer" he was like - "nah, f**k this" in complete denial and so Not taking any of it seriously. Very unprofessional, which was what Weyland wanted. Also remember at this point in 2093, "Yutani Corp" is a big Rival of *Weyland Industries* and the two havnt merged yet. It was Weyland's people who managed to steal the ECIU Satellite Software from Yutani, that they used to search deep out into space, to discover the "Acheron System" and it's orbiting moons/planetoids LV-223 & LV-426
In the comics there's a species called the Mala'kak, they could easily introduce them as the space jockey and a different species, the engineers could of based their tech off them. Although they were later made into the same species, it wouldn't be hard to draw the connections
I feel your video hit the nail on the head. Classic story of creations rebelling against their creators. I feel the space jockeys engineered the xenos as a last ditch effort as they were faced with the brink of extinction from the engineers usurping them. It could also be possible that the space jockeys did the same to an even older advanced race they may have even known more then them but technologies could have been lost in every “cycle”. It’s a possibility as to why the engineers became hostile to humans as their progress was a threat to to the engineers existence yet they were a necessary tool to reactivate them.
Yeah i know i really do love this concept of the cycle of creation and how history repeats itself due to the sins of the both the 'Father' and the 'Son'.
Come on man, Scott changed the jockeys narrative just to expand the Alien world for his Promethus Movie. It wasn't the original idea for the space jockey in Alien.
There was no real explanation for the Space Jockey Agenda. Originally it was a Race who discovered the Eggs in a Pyramid. To then being a Race who were carrying the Eggs to be used in some Conflict with a unknown Enemy. RS had back then (few years after Alien) indicated that the Space Jockey had performed a Heroic Act and was Benevolent
i like to think that the space jockey is the same type of being as the "Scorn guy" from Scorn. now that game isn't out yet and i have no idea whether they linked it to Alien, but from what i've seen of the trailers and demo, it's very easy to imagine that the world of scorn is the true origin of the alien. it's very gigeresque. i've seen images of the scorn guy morphing from the walls and having tubes into him. so yeah, whatever the space jockey is, maybe he is kinda like the scorn guy
@@anthonysvokos2697 To me AlienS is not even canon, unless they just so happened to of bumped into the Stand Up Comedian/Clown Xeno's. None of the sequels are they just Cryo nightmares. And I don't read comics
@@anthonysvokos2697 Yeah they are the visions Ripley has whilst still lost forever tumbling through space. Then you can deal with the pure lunacy of most of it. The surrealism even the really Bad Special effects.
We are talking about two movies with a 33 year gap between them. Even the creators can forget about certain details like size, shape, and overall aesthetics. It seems obvious to you because now you have access to both movies and can watch them back to back, comparing every single detail, but when you make a movie you hardly do this. And we're talking about Ridley Scott here, a guy that made 2 shite movies (Prometheus and Covenant) so obviously he didn't pay much respect to older material.
All the Engineers creating humanity stuff was shit and a big misstep imo. The Space Jockey stuff was always better as a creepy, mysterious thing; The fact that they have a cargo bay full of eggs (as a possible bioweapon that backfired and killed the pilot) is extremely ominous and really builds up the tone of the first movie. This stuff should be hinted at and maybe at most be shown here and there, but they should never have tried to explain it in detail.
As far as I'm concerned Prometheus and whatever the other dumpster fire was called aren't cannon, jumping through hoops trying to connect them and make sense of the nonsense is a pointless endeavour.
Another thing that bothered me was the type of technology used in both ships. Prometheus and Covenant had too advanced technology compared to what was seen on the Nostromo that even if it is a cargo ship, they do not coincide. And that was many years after the prequels.
@Project: ACHERON - ALIEN Explained I walk up to the Derelict. Knocks on it, "Who's in there?" I ask ... ... "Certainly not a hairless albino 8 foot tall basket player if that's what you're thinking. I take offense to THAT" Comes the answer. ... "15 foot tall elephantine bio-mechanoid with a proboscis?" I ask. ... "You got it buddy! Hope you brought chips and beer, come on in! We can catch the football game if ya hurry!"
It still is not David created the Xenomorphs, i wish alot of fans would realize this. Look, i know Covenant heavily eludes to that, but Ridley is just being ambiguous here. If you read the Covenant novel, it goes into abit more detail, revealing that there was atleast one single Xeno Egg on that Engineer Colony/planet before David even arrived there with Shaw in their Juggernaut ship. If your a sci fi fan at all you simply need to have a open-mind and understand what exactly David managed to do. But if you're just a casual, mainstream movie goer who has watched these movies just like you would watch any other movie, and not truly be invested you're not going to be able to understand. I'll put it as briefly as i can, what David did was basically very similar to what John Hammond did with his Dinos in the Jurassic Park story. Thats it in a nutshell.
@@RaikenXion ok interesting but I what of the engineers? I don't like the idea of that mysterious Space Jockey that I always wondered about as a child turns out to be nothing but an oversized man. I also don't like the idea that these engineers made life on earth etc. They should be totally alien in appearance & have nothing at all to do with earth. Giving them a connection to earth cheapens the storyline.
@@shallah777 Does it though? Looking into the bigger picture of things Earth can be thought of as just one planet out of many that the Engineers have seeded perhaps, just a cog in the wheel of their ultimate goal. Also i don't think they actually created life on Earth, because i remember in the opening-prologue of Prometheus that mysterious planet (if it even is Earth) seemed to show alot of green, Cambrian life already. I think that sacrificial Engineer who drank the mutagen falling into the waterfall, basically helped hasten evolution on the planet. When we talk about the idea of something being "alien" in it's appearance and form, we really need to start opening our minds more and thinking alittle deeper, because where the iconic and mysterious "Space Jockey" is concerned, hes always just looked very "humanoid" to me, he appears to have two arms, two hands and five sets of fingers, with a big head on-top of shoulders; all characteristics of the Bipedal Human Being form to me, not very "alien in appearance" imo. So it's always baffled me somewhat that alot of Alien fans complain about the Engineers basically amounting to just being a "man" in a suit, but even if we consider the Space Jockey in that chair to be somekind of skeletal or fossilized form, it's still essentially a "humanoid" figure at end of the day. It honestly never bothered me that Engineers may be connected to Earth in some way, cause i rather like the idea that we could have became quite insignificant to the Engineers, and that eventually they just wanted to wipe us out; in the same way a scientist grows bacteria in his pietri-dish, then disposes of it after a while, when his results don't turn out the way he expected.
@@RaikenXion yes the Space Jockey has 2 arms etc but so do the xenomorphs yet they don't appear humanoid like the Engineers. The Space Jockey, in my opinion, shouldn't resemble anything human (albeit the arms, legs, etc). The idea of the Engineers having anything to do with earth cheapens the mystery to me. I remember watching Alien back in the early 80s as a child & I was more interested in the fossilized Space Jockey than I was the xenomorph. It was this huge fossilized alien creature so far from earth that had probably been dead for millions of years now it turns out they're just giant "humans" that have a connection to earth. Talk about a big let down.
@@shallah777 The idea with Xenomorphs is that they will take on the characteristics of whatever lifeform/host they are born from. In the movie's case it's always happened to be Human Beings. As for the Earth Connection it's only subtly connected, and tbh there always was a connection to earth anyway because even the original writers envisioned that the Space Jockey's ship was a bomber originally headed to earth. So all Ridley Scott did there was follow up on that idea, also in his two Alien Prequels Ridley Scott has actually still kept the Alien itself completely separate from Earth in ALL his movies, and in the canon of his Prometheus, Covenant and ALIEN 1979, all the people on Earth have never even known anything about the Engineers, nor have they themselves gone back to Earth, cause Shaw and Janek thwarted the last surviving Engineer on LV-223. If you're really bothered by the antagonists of Alien having anykind of connection to Planet Earth and that spoils or lets down the whole mystery for you; then you should really now look at what Fargo/Legion creator Noah Hawley is doing as we speak, cause his new ALIEN Tv Series on Hulu is going to be purely set on Earth lol.
I dont think the space Jockey is an engineer, it's likely to be an Alpha/Precursor. The Engineers likely mimic the technology of the Space Jocky's race, but there are differences.
It's David, he needed an organism to run the Juggernaut. We saw how he kept the facehugger eggs in his chest, one busted out and laid eggs when he fled something... This would explain LV 426
I dislike how the prequels are trying to change the narrative of the original story, by reframing the Alien as a biological weapon that turned against its creators, rather than a visitor falling prey to a more evolved predator. The biological weapon aspect never made sense to me.
I have an Dark Horse Comics 6 book alien series and the Engineers/ Aliens in the comic book look Just Like That it’s NOT a suit. Also I have a Space Jockey vinyl model from 1992 and the box describes the machine the jockey is sitting behind is a Space Navigating Telescope. Remember their technology is different than ours.
And how do you like this theory? Jockeys created engineers from the DNA of people and engineers out of jealousy of the creators decided to destroy humanity.
Well this could have been one of the Curveballs we could have got... The Concept Work for the Citadel Building in Alien Covenant, a Concept work of the Doors done by TWO different Concept Artist had shown Humanoids... as in very Human. With Females but also Bearded Humans. One Concept had a more Greek Aesthetic and the other Summerian Aesthetic. And so WHO knows why this was done, but indeed having the Engineers Creators actually be more like Humans or Humans would be a Curveball
Also, Alien left you with unanswered questions, which let the audiences apply their own imagination. That is always going to be more powerful than an answer a director gives you, its the question that is interesting, not the answer.
But Prometheus was actually on the way of answering it in a satisfying manner tho... they just needed to make the engineers bigger and have the eggs be the xeno eggs, boom no need for covenant and Davids trash experiments that didnt even lead to the main Xeno yet...
I'm guessing Ridley Scott said " F it" the engineers are smaller but nobody will notice. I'm so disappointed in the ending of Prometheus... When the trilobite got the engeneer , I though it'd give birth to a huge alien queen or some type of huge monster....umm no , just a tiny decon
We have to Bare in mind that the Deacon was a New Born... and it is WAY more Larger than a Xenomorph Queen New Born.... but as the Deacon is a Human Hybrid.. if it grew the same % as a average Mammal (Birth to Adult) the Deacon would grow to be 15-16 ft Tall
Alien started as a terror movie and became a very complex story about "who created who?" The Black goo created the engineers, the engineers created us, we created the sintetics and the sintetics created the Xenomorphs
ridley scott retconned his own movie with this. If they wanted to avoid having gigantic elephant-like creatures, fine. Do your tall blue men people. But the space jockey should have still been a seperate THING. It could have been a bio-mechanical creature that was fused to its seat, and hence fused to the ship itself.
Big disappointment! The moment they anthropomorphized The Space Jockey as a humanoid; they lost me! Ridley Scott needs to retire. The goofy David, black goo, and the human-like "Engineers" just ended up being lazy writing. An Alien experience should be something abstract, almost incomprehensible, and terrifying. None of the new movies personify this. I know that action and explosions sell movies. It just sucks that it dominated this part of the franchise in the newer films. However; as a balance, I do accept it in regards to Predator. I dunno. Frustrating ☹. Thank you for the video. You do a great job! 😊
Engineers are the product of space jockeys and the humans are a product of the engineers which is why each species slowly gets more humanoid until it all went tits up. That's my take 😅
Really like your,hypothesis about the Space Jockey being a separate, even older species than the engineers. However, I think it's unlikely that the crash site on LV-426 will ever be revisited since the destruction of the atmosphere processor probably vaporized the alien range and the juggernaut as well rendering further investigation into the Space Jockey's actual origin impossible.
@@ProjectACHERON Yeah... funny how everyone thinks that chamber is inside the derelict. People who can't think three-dimensionally often make that sort of error. Unless the derelict is a TARDIS, the egg chamber is a cavern below the derelict, not inside the derelict. I presume you did a proof of that at some point, right?
If I am not mistaken the species is described as an elephant type alien in one of the alien earth war books, don't ask which one as I have not read them for a very long time , so don't quote me
Yeah, unfortunatly they are no longer canon. however there is hints in Alien: The PRG that they is more to the engineers histroy and the space jokcey itself than meets the eye.
I feel Ridley Scott ruined the Alien universe with the humanoid Engineers & having David creating the xenomorphs. The space jockey should be some far out looking creature with absolutely nothing to do with humanity.
@@shallah777 Just ignore Prometheus and Covenant, those movies are just boring and incoherent bullshit. The true Alien and Space Jockey are from GIGER's mind, don't forget it.
@@ProjectACHERON Space jockeys are not engineers, just read the Alien Vault Book or Giger's Alien Book or Alien Archives, They ARE NOT THE SAME. How can you pretend be fan of Alien and love Prometheus and Covenant ? those movies are just incoherent bullshit and garbage. Scott killed the mystery and the whole lore of Alien with those awful, terrible movies. 40 years of mythology just killed by 2 awful, incoherent and silly movies.
There is merit to the Theory! Let's think it like this... The Engineers, like us, tried to find their creators, but maybe UNLIKE us, they never found one Alive, but they did find the truth about their creation, and a Lot of Technology. With the passage of time, they Reverse-engineered enough of the Creator's tech to adapt to their own, effectively "takin' the mantle" of Creators. I do believe given enough time (and no Xenomorphs, Yautja and Engineers) Humans would adapt and integrate Engineer tech into their own.
Didnt Ridley say that they (the Engineers) sent Jesus? Also a creators creators creator (a species created the Engineers, who created humans who created androids etc) would just be a constant regression never really answering anything, but instead just moving the goal posts/answer further away. But i still really like your idea the Space Jockey is a superior race to the Engineers. That the Engineers found, stole or inherrited the tech, then copied, improved or reverse engineered it is a cool idea too.
The space jockey was a fossilised being. If you know how long it takes for a creature to become fossilised, that is all the answers you need. It doesn't add up to what they're trying to sell us with the engineers story in Prometheus and Covecrap.
I'm convinced that everything seen so far was..."Purpose Built".....the derelict,the juggernaut, everything. The pilot of the derelect is the derelict and an integral part of it. The ship was alive,it must have needed a central presence in it,a direct self-awareness and self-determination ability within certain parameters of course as instilled by the real masters.A living ship,and probably growing throughout the lifespan of the craft. Size would be acquired in age and all the extras that are not evident in the other craft like the juggernaut for example. Each craft is unique and has differences in whatever it was grown to perform, it suggests a lot about the civilization capable of creating such things to begin with. Consider the Xenomorph, for example. The black goo another. Remember the slime substance coating the technology of the juggernaut? All examples of this very special advanced civilization particularly in each role for each vessel different from the previous or the next as well.
The species of the Space Jockey was illustrated quite differently in the "Aliens" Dark Horse comics series. Not appearing to look humanoid as depicted in "Prometheus".
I remember reading that one in a swedish comics magazine called "Magnum". But unfortunately they only got as far as the Space Jockey's first appearence in the comic, I don't think they released the continuation of the story here. And I think the magazine stopped releasing new issues around that time. Which was sad, they had a very good selection of comics that were hard to find her.
I always liked to think of the Space Jockey as a being permanently bound and in symbiosis with its ship. Like Pilot in Farscape or the Bentusi in Homeworld.
Remember when Dallas and Lambert were examining the being, Dallas states "It looks like it's grown right out of the chair" then mentions "The bones are bent outwards, like something exploded from inside", he also remarked how the bones were fossilized, this creature was flesh and bone, not a suit, the being I believe was grown along with the rest of the ship, a bit like a mechanical ship or probe in the future, you would build in an "AI" computer to fly it, perhaps this species grew the ship with everything you see, and the beings sole purpose was flying that ship as a living extension of itself? Whatever humans can imagine an alien species being like, we always tend to run comparisons to our own species, however a species that's evolved on a different world with a different atmosphere would be impossible to comprehend, it would be the most Alien thing ever witnessed.
Nice to see someone who actually understands what the original concept was all about. For starters the whole theme of Gigers artwork is the fusion of organic life with technology.
The space jockey was fuzed together in a symbiotic relationship with the control device it operated and the ship in general. It had no legs. It didn't slide in out of that acceleration couch like it was getting into or out of a hot bath. It was a permanent part of the ship. The Nostromo had a central computer MUTHR which controlled the ship. Or Mother as the crew called it.
The space jockey serves basically the same purpose only its a much more highly advanced form of technology. An actual living computer if you will.
As Giger said of the space jockey painting... ''It has grown into or perhaps out of the chair. And is totally integrated into the machine it operates.
One things for sure. It isn't some funky spacesuit with an angry WWE wrestler inside it.
that's the genius of it, but why not spoil it for a cash grab?
I think it was mentioned either in the original concept, or one of the comics, whatever creature that burst out from this Space Jockey was a special breed of Xenomorph. Probably big, too.
@@nitrokid That's the impression I got. The fact that large alien creature had a hole through it's chest meant a xeno hatched out of it too, and if the jockey was that large imagine how big that xeno must've been..
@@ADB696 agree: Scott's attempt to retcon the space jockey as a spacesuit with the engineer inside of it doomed Prometheus from the start to be a failure. What a way to ruin the original.
I've always liked the idea that the derelict isn't just thousands, but millions of years old, and that this lonely, quiet, desolate place is still just as deadly, and that perhaps long after humans have faded, a completely different species might stumble across the same quiet corner of the galaxy.
I like the mystery of the pilot. I don't think it's very satisfying to have it be an engineer
i think its still cool its an ancient engineer that suffered something horrific
@@ProjectACHERON it could possibly be a mala'kak
@@jalpro7997 Mala'kak are the engineers/space jockeys
@@ProjectACHERON By "ancient engineer" do you mean a race of living Michelangelo sculptures? Whilst I like these giant Michelangelo beings, I much prefered the elephantine being that Giger created based on Dan O'Bannon's orginal concept rather than where Scott took it for Prometheus.
The reason the stuff doesn't match up is because Ridley Scott was so determined to make the Space Jockey a guy in a suit instead of another completely alien species that was fossilized, he didn't care about continuity.
Yes he does , this space jockey could be a mutation engineer or david becomes a space jockey or there is a deleted scene in the Prometheus (2012) when david activate the hologram at the translation they said there is another engineer crash on lv426 , it macth up perfectly and indeed a prequel to Alien (1979).
Yep; as much as I LOVE Ridley for his esthetic sense that made Alien what it is -- HE didn't originate Giger's vision but did FIGHT Fox honchos for it -- Ridley blew it with his visual retconning on Prometheus and Covenant.
@@RD-lt3ht Did you also saw david drawing of hid experiment his subject and you can see shaw corps but hen you compare hr giger art the lady they look the same , they're hidden details of hr giger design in the film and that's very honor of his work.
@@whocares8014 Yes, I know that but the "cosmic horror" aspect -- the Lovecraft element, meaning an "unknowable" aspect -- of the mythos is essentially watered down by this idea of just another "rationally-understandable" and even "relatable", essentially HUMAN species, having created -- what is essentially -- a bio-weapon-BUG. For the record, I'm still entertained by both Prometheus and Covenant even though I wish Ridley had made other choices; I RESPECT your defence of your own tastes.❤️
@@RD-lt3ht perfectly stated. I always felt the best part of the Alien was that who the hell know's what pure evil it came from!
I always thought of the Space Jockey as some kind of cyborg fused with the "chair" in which he's sitting and as Giger said: "totally integrated in the function he performs". He and the ship are the products of an incredibly ancient and advanced (and most probably extinct) alien race that bred its technological creations as biomechanical living beings. The space ship itself looks organic and "skeletonized" by the millennia of abandonment and decay. You can even see irregular "veins" on the exterior surface of the ship. On the inside corridors you can clearly see bones fused with mechanical elements. The Space Jockey and the ship were originally symbiotic biomechanical beings. The whole concept of the engineers is BS.
I had to imagine what it looked like with meat on those bones. Wish I didn't do that. It's not pretty.
That would make it more likely that the Xenomorph was a creation of theirs.
Who shitted in your cheerios
@@supportmalphite8769 nobody, but i bet your mom did in yours. 🙂
Or the engineers are a creation of the space jockeys.
I prefer the pilot to be something old, extinct and alien, not a human progenitor.
I agree it make sense.
Also I do not think that the Aliens are man made.
@@randomusernameCallin I think the Xenomorphs should be something far too powerful and alien for the humans to understand and control. They should be the reason the Pilots race is extinct and now it's the humans turn.
@@rojaws1183 That is true. It added to the universe and get away from the human hating ideal that man made them
Also it make sense from everything but the new movies that Xenomorphs are old. Also I say the black ooze come from face hugers.
If you look at the teeth of the Space Jockey, you can see jaws and a tongue.
Which of course the Engineer helmets in Prometheus don't have at all.
Which proves that the Space Jockey isn't an Engineer.
@SonofEyeaboveall Effoff Also in Aliens: Apocalypse - The Destroying Angels if I recall correctly.
You put more thought into this than Ridley Scott.
But there is a reason Sir Ridley Scott has a brilliant mind behind the mystery.
@SonofEyeaboveall Effoff Without him , there won't be an Alien movie.
@@whocares8014 Wrong. Just plain wrong.
There always be a reason then you guys know it.
Thanks, Ridley Scott.
Jockeys: Titans
Engineers: Olympians
Humans:Mortals
Xenomorphs: Creatures of Tartarus
nice comparison!
Thanks for the video :) 😀
Nice thought actually!
And Predators?
Your welcome, and yeah they have there part to play too
I believe that the Space Jockey was bioengineered to be immune to the 'alien', specifically to pilot a ship filled with them as an ultimate deterrence weapon. That's why his skull joins with his sternum - to prevent the 'alien' from attaching. Space Jockey was bioengineered to do one job, and could not do anything else - being fused to the chair. Something went wrong, though - the 'alien' adapted, and was able to infect him anyway. Knowing he was going to die, he put his ship down on a primordial planet and set a warning beacon to keep everyone away.
I like this explanation. One thing that would still bug me though is how the Nostromo's equipment was still able to tell that it was a warning beacon. Is it ever explained how exactly they were able to determine it was a warning to not go there or where the signal even came from exactly?
@@Ghosthound_X I just assumed that space fairing species would keep track of what was an SOS and what was a Danger Danger signal from every species they encountered. They could have added this one to their database by meeting a species that knew the signal without meeting the species that used it. Anyway, I've also always assumed that they were sent their on purpose - that the company knew about the location, that it was dangerous, and just decided to put them on that course to see what came of it without being spotted heading there with a big military convoy.
@@HeatherSpoonheim Because I was thinking that it would have been cool if we had gotten to see David's war against the Engineers in Alien Awakening that it would have ended with the human protagonist setting off that beacon in the derelict on LV 426 like the story was rumored to go into the planet finally. That would have been a cool way to tie everything together. But the derelict was on LV426 for thousands of years right?
@@Ghosthound_X You are getting into details and extended materials that are beyond my knowledge of the franchise. I really only know Alien and Aliens from the 80's. (was the first one in the 70's?) That sounds really cool, though, to have our relationship with them be some sort of ouroboros loop.
@@HeatherSpoonheim Yes I'm talking about the derelict in the 79 original. I can't remember if it's mentioned in the movie or where it's mentioned how long the ship was crashed there.
When ridley scott made the race of the space jockey into these lame ass, overgrown, pale humanoids in his god awful prequels, I knew the alien franchise was officially dead. One of the best things about the pilot was the mystery surrounding it and not knowing exactly who they were or where they came from or how utterly advanced they were compared to humans. Everything in cinema now has to have some stupid prequel or explanation for something that never needed it, just the ambiguity of it was enough to spark one's imagination.
Never bought the space jockey is an engineer. Engineers are larger than humans, but the space jockey is even larger. A lot. It's fucking huge.
I do not think the Engineers were even a thought when the first 2 Alien movies were made.
They couldn't get a 12 foot actor
@@jothishprabu8 Then build a 15 foot tall puppet animatronic. They did it for the dinosaurs in the original jurassic park movies before everything became a stupid CGI clusterf*ck.
@@sonofeyeabovealleffoff5462 or just use camera tricks like in LOTR to make the actor look taller
Don’t understand why you can’t understand that evolution exists. There were millennia between the jockey and origin of the humans. Large bodies require more energy and resources so evolution would cause bodies to shrink over time, especially when exposed to space.
When I watched Prometheus, I was “oh okay” at first, then I was like “huh?”
I really like the theory that Space Jokey was an more ancient species than the engineers, whom they respected to the point of making their technology and suits in the image of the jokey, and the Space Jokey species was the one that created the xenomorph, hence why the image of one is in Prometheus. David simply made his own version of the Xenomorph in the prequels, I think that theory should make everyone happy since now prequels can be enjoyed for what they are the mystery of the Space Jokey from Alien remains intact.
I really like this, and honestly, it makes sense. The frozen look of pain and horror on the jockey's remains is evidence enough that it wasn't just a bio-suit, let alone the massive size difference.
Couldn't agree more
To me, what made the most sense was he was just some unfortunate alien who got fertilized and died in his ship... I hated the effort to tie him to humans
It's simple. Ridley Scott just changed things because he's arrogant and doesn't give a shit about a canon that makes sense.
Facts! I hope that in the future his latest work is made null & void & someone does this all over bcuz I hate the idea of the humanoid Engineers & David creating the xenomorphs. That's just a huge lack of creativity.
@@shallah777 I think you may actually get what you wish for in the upcoming Noah Hawley Alien Tv series. It's rumored that will retcon Ridley's Alien movies altogether, and only connect subtly to the original 1979 Film.
@@RaikenXion I liked Aliens also but after that everything went downhill
Just done for the income. His original work on Blade Runner and Alien was the peak of his career.
I suppse
If you look closely at the mouth, there are teeth and a tongue.
You can even see the lower jaw, meaning that we're actually looking at the skull and not a helmet. There's signs of mummification and fossilization which of course a suit wouldn't do.
The Derelict in the 1979 film is different from the one from Prometheus. The 1979 Derelict is more organic, the outside of the ship is more yellowish in color, if it was metal, it would have been reddish and brownish.
The Derelict in Prometheus you can TELL is more mechanical because of the color and texture.
In the novelization, the pilot was more of an elephantine humanoid instead of a tall albino humanoid. Engineers were never said to be 13 feet. They were only from 8-9 feet, the pilot in Alien 1979 was larger, probably 18 feet. There's even a prop of the Space Jockey was 18 feet.
You can also see the difference by the size of the opening where the crew of the Nostromo entered, it is far too large for an Engineer.
Edit: Apologies, I meant to say that the Space Jockeys were shown in one of the other novels and not the original Alien novel. I also forgot to mention that the Engineers based their technology off another organism much like how we based our technology off wild animals and natural designs. Meaning that Engineers did indeed base their technology off another race.
They don’t find the pilot in the novelization. Which is funny, because in the novelization of ALIENS Ripley says they did. Alan Dean Foster wrote both, funny he didn’t remember that lol.
In the original script STAR BEAST the human crew find the derelict’s pilot, but this was pre Giger.
SonofEyeaboveall Effoff Exactly right. I always wondered why.
@@anthonysvokos2697
Not the Alien novelization, it's another novel. Forgot which one because I am stupid.
@SonofEyeaboveall Effoff
No not that novel, it's another one. Where if I remember correctly they find a living individual or are told that they once existed at some point.
In one of the novels it is stated that the Space Jockeys were elephantine humanoids that were very tall. Sorry if I said Alien 1979 novel, when I meant another novel.
TheKaijuGamer_2003 Lol I gotcha. That happens to me too. If you ever remember the title of it let me know I’d love to read it, it sounds good.
The Space Jockey is huge. The Engineer is about half the size.
yes
Just a design inconsistency between a gap of 30 years from both movies, the suit is almost identical, the lore is the same, the tech is the same, space jockeys are engineers, maybe just mummified engineers, maybe ancient engineers.
The Space Jockey was intended to be 26ft... in the First Shot when Dallas and Co climb up and walk to the Pilot Chair the Space Jockey would be about 20-22ft Tall. As they used Child Actors
The close up Shot the Space Jockey would have been 13-15 ft Tall.
The Engineers were intended to be 15ft Tall... then downgraded to 10ft Tall... but again what we ended up with is a 8ft Space Suited Engineers
There’s a lot of other issues too. The anatomy doesn’t match up either
I think Prometheus misses everything that ALIEN was visually suggesting with the Space Jockey Pilot symbolism - the disturbing possibilities of deep space extraterrestrial bio-machine symbionts: ancient organisms living in symbiosis with another. Which the ALIEN xenomorph represents so well in its chest bursting gestation horror. Prometheus just ignores all the grotesque mystery of the fossilised bio-mechanical fused Space Jockey Pilot, so as to simply shoehorn in their LAME abstract concept of 'planetary life seeding Engineers' in elephantine space suits! ... errgh.
But the alien was never shown to be able to pilot a ship
Tell me you’re an idiot without telling me you’re an idiot lol
@@TheSCPStudio
Why don't you slip into something more comfortable, like a coma.
@@TheSCPStudioIn the original film, Dallas even says "it looks like it grew out of the chair". And H.R. giger was known for his bio-mechanical fused creations. Not to mention the alien has metal teeth. The space jockey was part of the ship. Tell me you've never seen the original or paid attention without telling me lol.
Now they've made it so much smaller and boring. We'll never get the dark, biomechanical world that was never explored properly. We just get tall blue men and black goo that does whatever the plot needs it, too.
The Alien franchise was never conceived as such by the original story tellers or by Scott. It was a stand alone story that very successfully delivered on the concept of something "alien". This was the context for the Space Jockey; the story tellers never expected to be required to deliver an explicit rationale for it; it was just something "alien" and unexplained. The initial run of sequels were just cashing in on the success of the original film; even the much lauded "Aliens", which is a very fine piece of filmmaking and told a cracking story, was a bit creaky as a sequel, losing the "alienness" in favour of a fast paced conflict story. The Prometheus and Covenant strands are a clumsy attempt to revisit the alien (i.e. strange and other worldly) context of the original film, and to retrospectively construct a rationale for what was portrayed, not least due to pressure from the fans, who want to believe that there is such a well-formed rationale that is waiting to be revealed. There isn't, and so whatever comes next (if , indeed, there something to come next) may (or may not) be a good piece of film making and of story telling, but it will be at best a clumsy retro-fitted clarification and re-visioning of the nature of the Space Jockey and other aspects of the alien context of the original.
Yep, the whole “warning” message emitted by the derelict ship wrecks the whole notion of a “WMD” species created by the engineers to wipe out humanity.
These movies might not be masterpieces but they Are way better than modern so called movies that are being shat out today
If anything, I just wish for the franchise to wipe the slate clean and start from the beginning again.
I couldn’t agree less
Thank god someone finally has a brain lol. These people act as if this shit is real and that it needs to be picture perfect lore. It also doesn’t help that people tend to think that what they think is right and shoehorn it into ideas like this.
Here’s a simple solution; space jockey is a really old version of the engineers. Evolution shrunk their massive bodies to preserve energy. I mean even us humans look different than only a few hundred thousand years ago, let alone an alien species over millennia.
The engineers could’ve even ENGINEERED themselves as a whole to become more survivable. They seemed physically fit.
In the end it doesn’t really matter. The Jockey isn’t ever really touched on regardless.
It’s so much better and cooler if the Space Jockey is a completely different and ‘Alien’ race. I enjoy the theories that say that the Space Jockey is part of the ship itself, that the ship is organic and alive. That is very mysterious and otherworldly. I refuse to believe the Space Jockey in Alien is simply a humanoid Engineer.
Aliens dark descent basically confirmed they are two seperate species
Thank you for this video. The space jockey has always fascinated me since I first saw this scene as a child. It’s my favourite scene from the whole franchise. It just provoked the idea in my mind that there is most likely, out there somewhere, a long forgotten planet, in a dark and still corner of the an unknown part of the universe, that hasn’t had a foot step on it for thousands or millions of years. Some fossilised remains and ruins of a once technological advanced race, lay in wait on a dark planet, just like space jockey here. The 1970s, 80s films captured this atmosphere so much better than recent films.
I’ve never seen Prometheus, but from the clips it kind of ruins the mystery for me. It appears from the feedback, that Ridley didn’t really do much favours for us space jockey lovers. The Alien franchise for me, stops at the beautiful masterpiece that is Alien 3 (I know I’m in the minority there but I love it. Alien and Alien 3 for me). I don’t need all those spin offs and prequels killing the mystery of the routes and origins. The space jockey and his race are better left a mystery for me. Provoking more wonder and daydreaming.
Very well written. I like the way you think.
@@anthonysvokos2697 some franchises get spoiled by too much revelation. I liked the mystery here. I don’t want to know where he came from. The space jockey should’ve stayed a secret to keep us thinking. But that’s the beauty of film. I can choose to not watch the spin offs and prequels and keep the mystery :)
Don't ever watch them. Keep your love for it as it is. I watched it today and i still feel let down lol
@@IsaacJ143 yeah that’s how I intend to keep it lpl
What is wrong with people lmao. So weird over a fictional story. Forming opinions without even watching something and then using OTHERS opinions as a basis of your own on top of that.
It’s some pathetic and sad behavior tbh. Complete inability to think critically or for yourself.
The whole ‘keeping it a mystery’ thing is just a way for you to cope with having terrible opinions. You’re one of those people who can’t accept change because it defiles your original memories in your mind. No story is really better off with less revelation unless you want to preserve your weird child like nostalgia.
It’s a MASSIVE issue in todays world though so at least you’re not alone in your broken brain.
When there's a forty year gap between movies, back stories are not usually consistent...
Yes exactly that
Here is an explanation: Ridley Scott's Prometheus and Covenant are sh*t sequels.
Stick to unimaginative superhero flicks
@@jothishprabu8 no.
Dallas is essentially a truck driver. If he was an archeologist, paleontologist or at this point a xenobiologist I would be more inclined to accept his initial observations as fact.
yeah absolutely!
A space jockey himself.
In the comic books the space jockey is a confirmed different race.
Yeah most of those comics are non canon
I mean it could just be 30+ years of continuity differences because at the end of the day it is a movie.
We can’t compare the species having any different individual origins. Plain and simple Ridley Scott EfD Up big time
Discrepancies are down to laziness of film people. There. Mystery solved.
It's why they keep making Halloween films why does he do what does? Because. The end. LAME.
Stick to superhero flicks
Nah. Theory debunked.
@@aliray1165 hardly.
@@GODCONVOYPRIME yes
As I recall, the "Space Jockey" was a drawing by HR Giger which predated ALien the Movie. It was in one of his art-books and also a book on fictional alien space craft as well.
Your right, I’m talking about the in universe only though
It’s such a shame that Ridley Scott tried to provide a possible explanation as to what the “space jockey” was. The whole point of this discovery in the original film was to create mystery. If we know what it is, it’s no longer alien.
Originally we was going to get a Movie that was more like Aliens and about Xenomorphs (not sure of the Time Line) but then they thought about making a Prequel and to explain the Space Jockey.
Ridley Scott maybe in Hindsight would wish it was a Mystery. But he LOST any Creative Control over the Sequel to ALIEN, and so we still had the Mystery of WHERE did the Xenomorph come from and WHO had Created them and WHO was the Space Jockey their Race and Agenda.
And so RS had rather had his input on this, rather than leaving it Mystery for the Studio to then ANSWER these either after RS has passed away or is too OLD.
And thus he has NO input on them... like he never as far as where to take ALIEN next after 1979
The spacejockey is likely a member of the race that once ruled this galaxy - and the engineers were their slaves.
Shaws line "And who made them?" isnt just a coincidence, its a clue that they were created - Nothing is coincidental with Ridley Scott, he puts clues everywhere.
The wall mural for example shows domination of a creature...a symbol to how they overthrew the ancient gods.
And the movie title refers to the classical mythos of "stealing fire from the gods" - Its likely the engineers stole the fire(mutagen) and used it to revolt.
FINALLY SOMEONE WITH THE SAME THEIR WAY AS ME😭
Nah that's bullshit, Engineers and Space Jockeys are the same species, even Ridley Scott confirmed it, it was just because of the limitations of the CGI at the time that gave the impression that they were bigger.
@@guruxara7994 They weren't the same, dude. There's comics about the Space Jockies, and how they developed hatred for the Xenomorph, so rather than just killing the Xenomorph as they usually did, if they came into contact with them, they decided to study it before studying it became an idea for them, they all had a counsel meeting in one of their spacecrafts, and were tired of eradicating the Xenomorph, they had issues into wiping them out because of human archeologist who travelled to their world, they had contacts with humans before, but didn't inform them about the infestation, they felt it was too much of a hassle to explain the humans about the Xenomorph crisis because it was just going to lead to the humans to more questions.
@syntaxed2
Right ya are, my dude.
The biology of the Engineer is not at all like the biology of the Space Jockey in the original alien
Refer to the novelisation to Alien: Covenant for an additional point to add to your notes. David talks about eggs which he DIDN'T create but rather found.
You really wanna know? Ok. The Space Jockey is a victim of Ridley's ever growing incompetence and inability to accept a mystery as a mystery. It is Ridley's sheer hubris, arrogance, and lack of real skill these days.
The Jockey in Alien was an absolutely inspired Cosmicist vision from the 1970s. Ripley rolled with the unique visions provided by Giger, as he was a young and very intelligent, very talented director. He recognized the intangible, the mysterious, the literal alien. But as Ridley got older he started losing touch with this genius, his ineffable strangenes and he wanted to fill in the gaps that could not reasonably be filled on. Aging people reject the void, the unknown and they MUST provide answers, even if completely made up. It sucks.
@barkydogable Midichlorians don't explain anything. They just connect organisms with the Force. The Force itself is still a mystery.
Good video. But I remember reading a short novel in the 90s that said the jockey was a different species and that the Predators were even scared of them.
Well the ALIEN RPG does seem to suggest this as well.
@@ProjectACHERON awesome! I wonder why people feel the urge to turn away from source material. Thanks for making me feel better about the whole thing 😆
i hope they open up the space jokey's helmet and discover the remains of a white unicorn...
That isn't a helmet, look at the lower jaw.
It is actually the skull. You can see teeth and a tongue. Which the Engineer's helmets don't have.
It could be a mutation engineer or david become the spacejockey , it's possible.
Me too
That’s a hell of a reference 👏
@@TheKaijuGamer_ Just a different design, the same as different uniforms from different eras..
While IT IS CONFIRMED the jockey and engineers are the same, i like to think the jockey is just another form of engineer that is part of the ship.
For example, man of steel. You have beings dedicated to perform a single role in society. This alien (engineer) could have been breed just for the sole purpose of flying the ship.
79, they were just trying to create a size reference. I dont think he or any of the studio had ANY plans on creating a future prequel film that shows WHAT these engineer alien specieis really looked like ALIVE.
Honestly, it would’ve made more sense if the jockey was just an intergalactic trucker like the guys on the Nostromo.
I mean yeah, in some ways but I don’t necessarily mind the path they have take.
The idea of the space jockey being a guy in a suit is lame and boring in my opinion. And it doesn’t make any freaking sense. Here’s why:
-The color on the Space Jockey in the original Alien is a yellowish bony color, and we can see tissue in the broken rib cage area.
-The Space jockey has eye sockets, a mouth with teeth, an organic trunk, fleshy tissue on its chest, a tongue and ribs. These are things a biological creature would have, not a guy in a suit.
-How the heck would a Chestburster be able to burst through STEEL METAL?! That’s like a newborn baby being able to bust down a metal door
Prometheus movies were a franchise killer of alien. One of thee greatest mysteries in cinematic history was the space jockey.
They should have left it alone the idiots .
The space jockey is way much larger than the engineer.
The space jockey looks to be around 14-15 ft tall while the engineer is like 8-9
Ridley completely ruined the sense of scale of the jockey with the prequels man
7:00 to 9:30 you summed it up well. The (singular) jockey and (plural) engineers share similar tech, but by their different races.
Example: 3 separate film franchises centered on lethal aliens, and humans with military backgrounds.
"Mac" who survived alien (MacReady)
_The Thing_
"Mac" who died by alien _Predator_
"Mac" who was mutated by alien (Takahashi) _Doom_
Bro it's just the desing choices that changed, not the lore. Engineers are the same thing as Space Jokeys...
Though I actually liked Prometheus, I think the best step forward for the franchise would be to make the Engineers a separate race to the Space Jockeys.
That would be great.
The Space Jockey intrigues me. The Engineer doesn't.
I saw Alien when it was 1st released. The space jockey scene was a truly powerful thing to see and comprehend , accompanied by a dramatic music score. However , by far , after all these years , the Alien egg scene was the main object of the derelict ship.
I hated Prometheus because it made the Space Jockey understandable and rational. In Alien the Space Jockey was unknown and unknowable which is much better for existential horror. It was also totally alien. Giger's creation was totally alien in every way - and to have it reduced to a suit to fit a humanoid was a huge let down.
So I think Prometheus and Covenent are two big mistakes. They take the mystery out of Alien, and in doing so make it mundane.
Never was a engineer! That was shoe horned in by Scott, because he had nothing else to hold on to while creating the mess of a film. The Engineer was a Fossil, what proves that he’s been dead for millions of years. You can also see a facial structure.
Yep
I prefer the idea of Engineers and Space Jockeys being two different species. And agree with you that maybe its like as Shaw put it in Prometheus "Who made them?". The Space Jockeys being gods to the Engineers explains a lot why the Engineers mimic the ships and appearance of the Space Jockey. Space Jockey's were initially meant to be a far older ancient species, and this wasn't just referenced in expanded Alien media, but also in Aliens vs Predator expanded media as well.
Yeah I prefer that it’s up in the air atm. And honestly I prefer it that way
Say what you will about Prometheus it's dumb Human Scientists and even Ridley Scott himself, but atleast he tried to explore the bigger picture of who and what are the Space Jockeys. No other director or creative in Hollywood has had the guts to try and explore that.
@Pinko Slink Well you "explore it to a certain point, you can explore the Space Jockeys cause thy were always begging to be explored anyway.
What you do is you don't explore the Xenomorphs and just make it where th SJ discovered them eons ago.
For all the dumb shit that happens in that movie I still really enjoy Prometheus ngl haha
@@ShackSalmon Yes, I mean the design of the Engineers was outstanding, those cool bio-suits they had which looked very "biomechanoid" just like the Xenomorphs.
Also I gotta say the movie is cleverer than alot of people realize, because all the "dumb shit" that the scientists basically do in the movie, that in of itself can be explained away through Peter Weyland.
Meredith Vickers (Weyland's daughter) says that her father was a suspicious man, he basically did not trust anyone not even his own daughter.
So Peter Weyland only really hired "Academic Scientists" the types that would get easily scared by new/out of this world discoveries, they would get scared and basically NOT keep a "level head" and end up doing stupid things.
Weyland was assured of this because the one's who get scared DONT THINK STRAIGHT and therefore the last thing on their minds, would be to pull a "Denis Nedry" and end up leaking information of what they discover on 223, to other rival Companies for more money.
Peter Weyland wanted to keep all the big, historic discoveries of new life on other planets, ALL for himself; he was also so delusional that he believed he could find something that would grant him eternal youth, and to live forever; so he could return back to earth with some dead body of one of the Engineers, or even black goo in those Urns, and become the most powerful individual on the planet.
When you watch Prometheus, notice how Peter Weyland was on borrowed time, he's like over a Hundred Years old, and was just hiding out in some secret area of the ship. He sent out his personal assistant - *David-8* to do the job of going out with the mainstream scientist crew, but with his own secret directive, to ultimately find somekind of Alien life, to bring back to Weyland.
It's why notice when they go inside the big pyramid/temple facility, and they're walking down those big tunnels, David walks far ahead and from that point he's just acting of his own accord, not really listening to Shaw/Holloway (especially not Holloway lol). David quickly learns how to activate the Door panel, that had that weird gooey substance smeared on the control panel.
David then opens the door without ever waiting for orders from Shaw, and when they get inside, David is just straight away doing his own thing, when he's inspecting the Urns.
The Prometheus Crew were always expendable, Peter Weyland wanted non-believers, which was what Fifield and Millburn were, as soon as Fifield saw the body of that giant, dead "Engineer" he was like - "nah, f**k this" in complete denial and so Not taking any of it seriously. Very unprofessional, which was what Weyland wanted. Also remember at this point in 2093, "Yutani Corp" is a big Rival of *Weyland Industries* and the two havnt merged yet.
It was Weyland's people who managed to steal the ECIU Satellite Software from Yutani, that they used to search deep out into space, to discover the "Acheron System" and it's orbiting moons/planetoids LV-223 & LV-426
In the comics there's a species called the Mala'kak, they could easily introduce them as the space jockey and a different species, the engineers could of based their tech off them. Although they were later made into the same species, it wouldn't be hard to draw the connections
I feel your video hit the nail on the head. Classic story of creations rebelling against their creators. I feel the space jockeys engineered the xenos as a last ditch effort as they were faced with the brink of extinction from the engineers usurping them. It could also be possible that the space jockeys did the same to an even older advanced race they may have even known more then them but technologies could have been lost in every “cycle”. It’s a possibility as to why the engineers became hostile to humans as their progress was a threat to to the engineers existence yet they were a necessary tool to reactivate them.
Yeah i know i really do love this concept of the cycle of creation and how history repeats itself due to the sins of the both the 'Father' and the 'Son'.
Come on man, Scott changed the jockeys narrative just to expand the Alien world for his Promethus Movie. It wasn't the original idea for the space jockey in Alien.
Yeah I mean that's right but it doesn't mean we can't theorise the specifics 9f that expansion
Hot it right on the head man...I never made any connection between the space jockey and the engineers
There was no real explanation for the Space Jockey Agenda.
Originally it was a Race who discovered the Eggs in a Pyramid.
To then being a Race who were carrying the Eggs to be used in some Conflict with a unknown Enemy.
RS had back then (few years after Alien) indicated that the Space Jockey had performed a Heroic Act and was Benevolent
It’s odd that the craft is called a juggernaut when the only contact we’ve had with it is either stationary or eating shit....
In the books it appears to be an entirely different species.
i like to think that the space jockey is the same type of being as the "Scorn guy" from Scorn. now that game isn't out yet and i have no idea whether they linked it to Alien, but from what i've seen of the trailers and demo, it's very easy to imagine that the world of scorn is the true origin of the alien. it's very gigeresque. i've seen images of the scorn guy morphing from the walls and having tubes into him. so yeah, whatever the space jockey is, maybe he is kinda like the scorn guy
yeah when scorn was first announced i was like yep this is the space jockey species, its a pre-prequel haha
I like to think prometheus is non-canon.
prometheus is definitely canon
For me everything after ALIENS is non canon except for the 90s Dark Horse comics that picked up the story immediately following that movie.
@@anthonysvokos2697 To me AlienS is not even canon, unless they just so happened to of bumped into the Stand Up Comedian/Clown Xeno's. None of the sequels are they just Cryo nightmares. And I don't read comics
WORSTXB1PLAYER Tyler Tee H C Cryo nightmares is a good explanation for the later movies.... I like that.
@@anthonysvokos2697 Yeah they are the visions Ripley has whilst still lost forever tumbling through space. Then you can deal with the pure lunacy of most of it. The surrealism even the really Bad Special effects.
We are talking about two movies with a 33 year gap between them. Even the creators can forget about certain details like size, shape, and overall aesthetics. It seems obvious to you because now you have access to both movies and can watch them back to back, comparing every single detail, but when you make a movie you hardly do this. And we're talking about Ridley Scott here, a guy that made 2 shite movies (Prometheus and Covenant) so obviously he didn't pay much respect to older material.
Would love to see a fx series based on the engineers vs the space jockey group
I hate to think that that weird creature imagined by H.R. Giger is reinterpreted as a stupid Greek-like semi-god.
Not an engineer, plz.
Great job man ! Keep up the good vid's !
Thanks, will do!
All the Engineers creating humanity stuff was shit and a big misstep imo. The Space Jockey stuff was always better as a creepy, mysterious thing; The fact that they have a cargo bay full of eggs (as a possible bioweapon that backfired and killed the pilot) is extremely ominous and really builds up the tone of the first movie. This stuff should be hinted at and maybe at most be shown here and there, but they should never have tried to explain it in detail.
Ridley made bad Lovecraft fanfictions
in my headcanon the prometheus thing didn't happen
As far as I'm concerned Prometheus and whatever the other dumpster fire was called aren't cannon, jumping through hoops trying to connect them and make sense of the nonsense is a pointless endeavour.
Brilliant! I'm loving this idea. It makes a lot of sense.
Glad you think so!
Another thing that bothered me was the type of technology used in both ships. Prometheus and Covenant had too advanced technology compared to what was seen on the Nostromo that even if it is a cargo ship, they do not coincide. And that was many years after the prequels.
@Project: ACHERON - ALIEN Explained
I walk up to the Derelict.
Knocks on it, "Who's in there?" I ask
...
...
"Certainly not a hairless albino 8 foot tall basket player if that's what you're thinking. I take offense to THAT" Comes the answer.
...
"15 foot tall elephantine bio-mechanoid with a proboscis?" I ask.
...
"You got it buddy! Hope you brought chips and beer, come on in! We can catch the football game if ya hurry!"
Lol
thank you for this! they are NOT the same, at all!
I hate the whole "Engineer" & David creating the xenomorphs idea.
It still is not David created the Xenomorphs, i wish alot of fans would realize this. Look, i know Covenant heavily eludes to that, but Ridley is just being ambiguous here. If you read the Covenant novel, it goes into abit more detail, revealing that there was atleast one single Xeno Egg on that Engineer Colony/planet before David even arrived there with Shaw in their Juggernaut ship.
If your a sci fi fan at all you simply need to have a open-mind and understand what exactly David managed to do. But if you're just a casual, mainstream movie goer who has watched these movies just like you would watch any other movie, and not truly be invested you're not going to be able to understand.
I'll put it as briefly as i can, what David did was basically very similar to what John Hammond did with his Dinos in the Jurassic Park story. Thats it in a nutshell.
@@RaikenXion ok interesting but I what of the engineers? I don't like the idea of that mysterious Space Jockey that I always wondered about as a child turns out to be nothing but an oversized man. I also don't like the idea that these engineers made life on earth etc. They should be totally alien in appearance & have nothing at all to do with earth. Giving them a connection to earth cheapens the storyline.
@@shallah777 Does it though? Looking into the bigger picture of things Earth can be thought of as just one planet out of many that the Engineers have seeded perhaps, just a cog in the wheel of their ultimate goal. Also i don't think they actually created life on Earth, because i remember in the opening-prologue of Prometheus that mysterious planet (if it even is Earth) seemed to show alot of green, Cambrian life already. I think that sacrificial Engineer who drank the mutagen falling into the waterfall, basically helped hasten evolution on the planet.
When we talk about the idea of something being "alien" in it's appearance and form, we really need to start opening our minds more and thinking alittle deeper, because where the iconic and mysterious "Space Jockey" is concerned, hes always just looked very "humanoid" to me, he appears to have two arms, two hands and five sets of fingers, with a big head on-top of shoulders; all characteristics of the Bipedal Human Being form to me, not very "alien in appearance" imo.
So it's always baffled me somewhat that alot of Alien fans complain about the Engineers basically amounting to just being a "man" in a suit, but even if we consider the Space Jockey in that chair to be somekind of skeletal or fossilized form, it's still essentially a "humanoid" figure at end of the day.
It honestly never bothered me that Engineers may be connected to Earth in some way, cause i rather like the idea that we could have became quite insignificant to the Engineers, and that eventually they just wanted to wipe us out; in the same way a scientist grows bacteria in his pietri-dish, then disposes of it after a while, when his results don't turn out the way he expected.
@@RaikenXion yes the Space Jockey has 2 arms etc but so do the xenomorphs yet they don't appear humanoid like the Engineers. The Space Jockey, in my opinion, shouldn't resemble anything human (albeit the arms, legs, etc). The idea of the Engineers having anything to do with earth cheapens the mystery to me. I remember watching Alien back in the early 80s as a child & I was more interested in the fossilized Space Jockey than I was the xenomorph. It was this huge fossilized alien creature so far from earth that had probably been dead for millions of years now it turns out they're just giant "humans" that have a connection to earth. Talk about a big let down.
@@shallah777 The idea with Xenomorphs is that they will take on the characteristics of whatever lifeform/host they are born from. In the movie's case it's always happened to be Human Beings.
As for the Earth Connection it's only subtly connected, and tbh there always was a connection to earth anyway because even the original writers envisioned that the Space Jockey's ship was a bomber originally headed to earth. So all Ridley Scott did there was follow up on that idea, also in his two Alien Prequels Ridley Scott has actually still kept the Alien itself completely separate from Earth in ALL his movies, and in the canon of his Prometheus, Covenant and ALIEN 1979, all the people on Earth have never even known anything about the Engineers, nor have they themselves gone back to Earth, cause Shaw and Janek thwarted the last surviving Engineer on LV-223.
If you're really bothered by the antagonists of Alien having anykind of connection to Planet Earth and that spoils or lets down the whole mystery for you; then you should really now look at what Fargo/Legion creator Noah Hawley is doing as we speak, cause his new ALIEN Tv Series on Hulu is going to be purely set on Earth lol.
It’s a baby elephant who got stuck in a turkey frame.
I dont think the space Jockey is an engineer, it's likely to be an Alpha/Precursor. The Engineers likely mimic the technology of the Space Jocky's race, but there are differences.
i agree!
Prometheus ruined the mystery and mystique of the Space Jockey.
Spacejockey = Engineer. Simple as that!
Have to disagree with you on this one
Exactly... Just an ancient Engineer, or even a different breed made for a specific purpose...
It's David, he needed an organism to run the Juggernaut. We saw how he kept the facehugger eggs in his chest, one busted out and laid eggs when he fled something... This would explain LV 426
Yeah David is a possibility
I dislike how the prequels are trying to change the narrative of the original story, by reframing the Alien as a biological weapon that turned against its creators, rather than a visitor falling prey to a more evolved predator. The biological weapon aspect never made sense to me.
I suppose
I would note that the navigation equipment and sleep chambers around the chair could be in the floor. Lowered during flight or crash sequences...
Who knows, we don’t know enough about their vehicles to really tell
I have an Dark Horse Comics 6 book alien series and the Engineers/ Aliens in the comic book look Just Like That it’s NOT a suit. Also I have a Space Jockey vinyl model from 1992 and the box describes the machine the jockey is sitting behind is a Space Navigating Telescope. Remember their technology is different than ours.
Damn could they be going down the Precursor, Forerunner and flood route-ish? 😱
Space Jockeys - Precursor
Engineers - Forerunner
Alien - Flood
And how do you like this theory? Jockeys created engineers from the DNA of people and engineers out of jealousy of the creators decided to destroy humanity.
Hey its always possible, i love the mystery surrounding this ancient race of aliens!
Well this could have been one of the Curveballs we could have got...
The Concept Work for the Citadel Building in Alien Covenant, a Concept work of the Doors done by TWO different Concept Artist had shown Humanoids... as in very Human.
With Females but also Bearded Humans. One Concept had a more Greek Aesthetic and the other Summerian Aesthetic.
And so WHO knows why this was done, but indeed having the Engineers Creators actually be more like Humans or Humans would be a Curveball
A work of art is a gut reaction. Trying to explain it brakes the illusion.
Also, Alien left you with unanswered questions, which let the audiences apply their own imagination. That is always going to be more powerful than an answer a director gives you, its the question that is interesting, not the answer.
But Prometheus was actually on the way of answering it in a satisfying manner tho... they just needed to make the engineers bigger and have the eggs be the xeno eggs, boom no need for covenant and Davids trash experiments that didnt even lead to the main Xeno yet...
I'm guessing Ridley Scott said " F it" the engineers are smaller but nobody will notice.
I'm so disappointed in the ending of Prometheus... When the trilobite got the engeneer , I though it'd give birth to a huge alien queen or some type of huge monster....umm no , just a tiny decon
We have to Bare in mind that the Deacon was a New Born... and it is WAY more Larger than a Xenomorph Queen New Born.... but as the Deacon is a Human Hybrid.. if it grew the same % as a average Mammal (Birth to Adult) the Deacon would grow to be 15-16 ft Tall
Alien started as a terror movie and became a very complex story about "who created who?" The Black goo created the engineers, the engineers created us, we created the sintetics and the sintetics created the Xenomorphs
ridley scott retconned his own movie with this. If they wanted to avoid having gigantic elephant-like creatures, fine. Do your tall blue men people. But the space jockey should have still been a seperate THING. It could have been a bio-mechanical creature that was fused to its seat, and hence fused to the ship itself.
Big disappointment! The moment they anthropomorphized The Space Jockey as a humanoid; they lost me! Ridley Scott needs to retire. The goofy David, black goo, and the human-like "Engineers" just ended up being lazy writing. An Alien experience should be something abstract, almost incomprehensible, and terrifying. None of the new movies personify this. I know that action and explosions sell movies. It just sucks that it dominated this part of the franchise in the newer films. However; as a balance, I do accept it in regards to Predator. I dunno. Frustrating ☹. Thank you for the video. You do a great job! 😊
Scott has lost his imagination, he's just an asshole and he doesn't care about the lore and respect of the Alien universe and Giger work.
Thank you for this interesting, balanced analysis.
Engineers are the product of space jockeys and the humans are a product of the engineers which is why each species slowly gets more humanoid until it all went tits up. That's my take 😅
I think there’s some truth it that
Really like your,hypothesis about the Space Jockey being a separate, even older species than the engineers. However, I think it's unlikely that the crash site on LV-426 will ever be revisited since the destruction of the atmosphere processor probably vaporized the alien range and the juggernaut as well rendering further investigation into the Space Jockey's actual origin impossible.
I mean it could have but there also that vast underground chamber beneath the derelict!
@@ProjectACHERON Yeah... funny how everyone thinks that chamber is inside the derelict. People who can't think three-dimensionally often make that sort of error.
Unless the derelict is a TARDIS, the egg chamber is a cavern below the derelict, not inside the derelict.
I presume you did a proof of that at some point, right?
Only the first movie is canon to me. The mystery of where it and the jockey came from was one of the best parts of the movie.
That’s the great thing about any franchise is you can have your own head canon and only think or talk about the thing you want to discuss
If I am not mistaken the species is described as an elephant type alien in one of the alien earth war books, don't ask which one as I have not read them for a very long time , so don't quote me
Yeah, unfortunatly they are no longer canon. however there is hints in Alien: The PRG that they is more to the engineers histroy and the space jokcey itself than meets the eye.
@@ProjectACHERON Is the lisenced comics still canon? Cause there the Sapce Jockeys are also Elephant headed humanoids.
I feel Ridley Scott ruined the Alien universe with the humanoid Engineers & having David creating the xenomorphs. The space jockey should be some far out looking creature with absolutely nothing to do with humanity.
Exactly, and if you read Alien Vault book and Giger's Alien, it's said : Space Jockey is a creature devoid of any human resemblance.
@@MEGFINANCE and Ridley Scott just went totally left field with that & made him look like a giant human with a few small differences.
@@shallah777 Just ignore Prometheus and Covenant, those movies are just boring and incoherent bullshit. The true Alien and Space Jockey are from GIGER's mind, don't forget it.
I love the prequel and think that a the lore can coexist
@@ProjectACHERON Space jockeys are not engineers, just read the Alien Vault Book or Giger's Alien Book or Alien Archives, They ARE NOT THE SAME. How can you pretend be fan of Alien and love Prometheus and Covenant ? those movies are just incoherent bullshit and garbage. Scott killed the mystery and the whole lore of Alien with those awful, terrible movies. 40 years of mythology just killed by 2 awful, incoherent and silly movies.
There is merit to the Theory!
Let's think it like this...
The Engineers, like us, tried to find their creators, but maybe UNLIKE us, they never found one Alive, but they did find the truth about their creation, and a Lot of Technology.
With the passage of time, they Reverse-engineered enough of the Creator's tech to adapt to their own, effectively "takin' the mantle" of Creators.
I do believe given enough time (and no Xenomorphs, Yautja and Engineers) Humans would adapt and integrate Engineer tech into their own.
Yeah i really like this theory!!
@@ProjectACHERON hey! Thanks a lot!~ :D
My creator lives around the corner
Or an particulary class of engineer specified born for the voyage into deep space
That also would be pretty cool! they can do so much with this idea
Yeah i see that as a good explaination too!
makes more sense...
Didnt Ridley say that they (the Engineers) sent Jesus? Also a creators creators creator (a species created the Engineers, who created humans who created androids etc) would just be a constant regression never really answering anything, but instead just moving the goal posts/answer further away.
But i still really like your idea the Space Jockey is a superior race to the Engineers. That the Engineers found, stole or inherrited the tech, then copied, improved or reverse engineered it is a cool idea too.
Good video. Let's hope we will at least get novelisation of this awesome part of the Alien universe. A graphic novel would be very welcome as well
Fingers crossed!
The space jockey was a fossilised being. If you know how long it takes for a creature to become fossilised, that is all the answers you need. It doesn't add up to what they're trying to sell us with the engineers story in Prometheus and Covecrap.
I'm convinced that everything seen so far was..."Purpose Built".....the derelict,the juggernaut, everything. The pilot of the derelect is the derelict and an integral part of it. The ship was alive,it must have needed a central presence in it,a direct self-awareness and self-determination ability within certain parameters of course as instilled by the real masters.A living ship,and probably growing throughout the lifespan of the craft. Size would be acquired in age and all the extras that are not evident in the other craft like the juggernaut for example. Each craft is unique and has differences in whatever it was grown to perform, it suggests a lot about the civilization capable of creating such things to begin with. Consider the Xenomorph, for example. The black goo another. Remember the slime substance coating the technology of the juggernaut? All examples of this very special advanced civilization particularly in each role for each vessel different from the previous or the next as well.
Did you guys notice that Xenomoprh's body parts resemble 1979 space jockey's body structure and it's organic ship
The species of the Space Jockey was illustrated quite differently in the "Aliens" Dark Horse comics series. Not appearing to look humanoid as depicted in "Prometheus".
I remember reading that one in a swedish comics magazine called "Magnum". But unfortunately they only got as far as the Space Jockey's first appearence in the comic, I don't think they released the continuation of the story here. And I think the magazine stopped releasing new issues around that time. Which was sad, they had a very good selection of comics that were hard to find her.
I always liked to think of the Space Jockey as a being permanently bound and in symbiosis with its ship. Like Pilot in Farscape or the Bentusi in Homeworld.
Well done
Thank. You