@@tommysoliz3064 But Otto and Alicent's line dies out. None of their descendants survive, the cruel irony. Meanwhile older bro and his kids make it to the present, while Rhaenyra's line takes the throne.
Alicent was a child otto is an adult, your brother being an asshole is no excuse for otto putting his daughter into a marriage she didn’t want for the sake of power and putting her and the lives of her future children in danger
@@ashdude3058 Too true nowadays. In their time, or the time the world is heavily based on, your family was a far more tenuous thing. Given who Viserys was, compared to many a brute in the kingdom, Otto's selling his daughter not only enriched his family, but guaranteed his daughter's safety. In an age where women were familial commodities, and far less respected than they are now, this was the best choice for a father in Otto's position. The establishing of his grandson through Alicent as the King, this making her the King's mother, would further secure her safety and the Hightower Position. Personally, I don't like how conniving Otto is. But I respect what he's done for Alicent, relative to the time period.
@@HalohbotTech bullshit. Rhaenys knew that marrying into the royal family was dangerous for her children, not safety. The royal line is only safe when it is stable, which it was not when otto made that decision. Otto himself destabilized it by pushing viserys to make rhaenyra heir, while if daemon had stayed heir he would’ve been 100% replaced when aegon was born. However, otto chose to marry alicent to viserys AFTER there was another heir, and then was hell bent on making aegon heir. In the show, no man will have the blood spilled on their hands more than otto (oh and if you’ve read the books, blood will spill) because his reach for power started this war Alicent and her children would’ve had a better life if she had married just a good lord rather than into the iron throne
Honestly this just gives me a lot more sympathy for Otto. In moments like this its obvious he knows the difference between whats right for the realm and whats right for his brother, yet ironically just like Daemon his loyalty for his older brother always comes first.
Hobert openly calling Aegon “second of his name” and “his grace” basically saying that Viserys is already dead to him, super treasonous but Viserys didn’t clamp down on it strong enough 😔
It's not treasonous to call him "2nd of his name" or "his grace". Both are true and not treasonous at all... your grace is still due to the fact Aegon is a Prince.
@@thalmoragent9344 what? Neither are true. Prince Aegon isn’t the second Targaryen boy named Aegon, and only the king is to be called “your grace.” You never hear Rhaenyra or Aemond or Halaena get called “your grace,” do you? No, the implication is that he already recognizes Aegon as heir over Rhaenyra, violating king Viserys’ will and, therefore, being treasonous.
No not really. Aegon was the second Aegon Targaryen. His grace is just a title for royalty, thats why they still call princes and princesses your grace.
@@AaronGuest there were many previous Aegon’s. Aegon the uncrowned, brother of king Jaehaerys, Jaehaerys’ firstborn son Aegon, who died as an infant, Viserys’ own infant brother Aegon, and many more.
Rewatching this scene, I dislike Otto less but I still dislike him because he let his brother press him like that. I like that angle though that, Otto realized EARLY that Aegon might not be it with that porridge comment but his Elder brother pushed him for power. Kinda wild because Otto had nothing to his name expect the Hand Title so he had to submit to his brother. If Visery would have given Otto some land and titles… it would have been a wrap. No civil war, Otto goes down as a top 3 hand all time lol
Viserys should have stopped right there and corrected Otto's brother .. "this baby is the prince Aegon not Aegon 2nd of his name. No Grace, just Prince"
@@Shivamkumar-uu9tu In that case he'd be Aegon the 5th. There were 4 princes named Aegon between King Aegon I and King Aegon II (aka this Aegon), he is calling Aegon the next King in line here, not just the second person to have the name Aegon. The other Aegons are: -Aegon I grandson -Aegon firstborn son of Jaehaerys -Viserys and Daemons younger brother
@@TemariNaraannaschatz Well, tbh its not so straightforward. Sam calls Jon "Aegon the sixth of his name" but by Jon's time there had already been a dozen Aegon's born and dead.
@@thalmoragent9344 Never use GoT as an argument on how the world of Westeros works, it contridicts canon all the time: Dany isn't fireproof, you can't decide randomly that your marriage is annuled and Jon isn't Aegon VI because he was never crowned king of the 7 kingdoms, just King in the North.
Otto did a great job of the pretense of loyalty when from the beginning he urged his daughter into her prescence with thr sole purpose if making his own bloodline royalty and sit on the throne. Hes slimey. But hes tactful
“The flapping of a butterflies wings, can cause chaos across the world” The butterfly effect. A few persistent, ambitious, arrogant words from the wrong mouth brought down the Targaryen dynasty.
fun fact you dont use the term second of his name etc until that man becomes the king. for example jon snows real name is aegon, but if he became the king only then would we use the term aegon the seventh
@@exp_user1makesense722 still the blacks have a killed more innocents then the greens up until now. Including their own wives. Really makes you think how dumb an average viewer is.
Funnily enough the most major ally of Aegon II was the same man that supported Rhaenys' claim, Lord Baratheon. They were just a bunch of oath breakers nothing more
@@kaliningradtoczechrepublic8162 Yes but mostly due to Oaths. If Aegon 2 was openly made Heir, none of them would've been surprised. Whether they agreed or not, Viserys forced them to bow so they had no choice. They were bound by Oaths, not Ideology or their own will. If a Great Council was called for this Succession, I guarantee you Aegon 2 would've won it, just as Viserys did over Rhaenyra...
@@WERTYUIO821 Actually no, Borros Baratheon actually didn't swear fealty to Viserys for Rhaenyra as Heir. His father did, but his father died in the, what, ariud 20 years since then? So yeah, Borros himself made no Oaths to Rhaenyra
@@kaliningradtoczechrepublic8162 Only because they either swore oaths, had one of the black dragons parked outside their castle or a nearby castle(much of the Riverlords), wanted a female ruler to legitimize their own reign (Arryn), or got a marriage pact. (Starks)
If only viserys had the balls to fucking pass his test. You have Dragons, BURN ALL THE TREASONOUS SNAKES!!!!!!! I kno he can't bcuz of the show, but not making examples of people, ended with the dance coming to fruition. At least the black bloodline ended up sitting on the throne and alicent and her daddy got exactly what they deserved. Hopefully his brother did Too.
That’s mostly a show thing. In the book, especially late into his reign, he was rather cruel to any who questioned the legitimacy of Rhaenyra or her kids. If anything it made the Lords less enthusiastic about taking orders from her.
they've all basically been led up to this point by other people the very reason alicent stops trusting rhaeneya is because christen Cole admitted to the affair they were having while alicent believes he was admitting to daemon and her doing it
@@angelbass5175 nope as the heirs of the iron throne have always been men. which is why her claim is so weak as even Jaehaerys(the greatest king of the dynasty) passed over a granddaughter for a son. That’s the root of the entire dance ppl are expecting a king it’s tradition in Westeros where sons go before daughters. Even when Viserys named Rhaenyra heir technically Aegon became heir in the eyes of many the moment he was born. The truth is Aegon was a weak man and king because his stubbornness with Rhaenyra doomed the dragons and his house because without the dragons the Targaryens would decline until eventually they loose the throne and it’s just Daenerys and Jon left to carry and entire dynasty and culture.
@@CristianMartinez-yc6pr the thing is their being stuck in old ways viserys wasn’t weak. He was the only one who saw that things could change, men don’t think no differently than women. Men just want to feel validated that’s it. Being stuck in old ways is what got them where they was at in this current situation. Why is a woman good enough to be kings consort but not good enough to be king🥴😂men in old times are just stupid and think having a penis validates them and their actions. Last time I checked having a penis don’t mean u better or smarter just that your a male.
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And here we see the beginning of the downfall. A second son catering to the demands of his older brother and thus dooming both houses.
Hightowers will live on
Hightowers are still around during the war of five kings… in fact Margery tyrell’s mother was a Hightower
Hightowers are still among the most powerful houses in Westeros during the asoiaf
@@tommysoliz3064 But Otto and Alicent's line dies out. None of their descendants survive, the cruel irony. Meanwhile older bro and his kids make it to the present, while Rhaenyra's line takes the throne.
@@davidmelgar1197 Hightowers are still alive and strong and there is only one Targaryen bastard left
Otto gets a lot of shit for pressuring Alicent into making Aegon King, but people forget that Otto too was pressured into it by his older brother.
Alicent was a child otto is an adult, your brother being an asshole is no excuse for otto putting his daughter into a marriage she didn’t want for the sake of power and putting her and the lives of her future children in danger
@@ashdude3058 Too true nowadays. In their time, or the time the world is heavily based on, your family was a far more tenuous thing. Given who Viserys was, compared to many a brute in the kingdom, Otto's selling his daughter not only enriched his family, but guaranteed his daughter's safety. In an age where women were familial commodities, and far less respected than they are now, this was the best choice for a father in Otto's position. The establishing of his grandson through Alicent as the King, this making her the King's mother, would further secure her safety and the Hightower Position.
Personally, I don't like how conniving Otto is. But I respect what he's done for Alicent, relative to the time period.
@@HalohbotTech bullshit. Rhaenys knew that marrying into the royal family was dangerous for her children, not safety. The royal line is only safe when it is stable, which it was not when otto made that decision. Otto himself destabilized it by pushing viserys to make rhaenyra heir, while if daemon had stayed heir he would’ve been 100% replaced when aegon was born. However, otto chose to marry alicent to viserys AFTER there was another heir, and then was hell bent on making aegon heir. In the show, no man will have the blood spilled on their hands more than otto (oh and if you’ve read the books, blood will spill) because his reach for power started this war
Alicent and her children would’ve had a better life if she had married just a good lord rather than into the iron throne
Otto pressured his daughter into the kings bed the MOMENT it was opportunistic. He wanted it all along. You give him far too much credit
@@ashdude3058 his brother is not just an asshole he’s his liege lord. By all customs of Westeros he’s supposed to follow his orders.
Oooh. So it's OTTO brother.. who instilled in him to casually change the kings mind .. an here I thought it was OTTO all this time.
Damn OLD TOWN.
Lord Hobert Hightower, Aegon II’s personnel ball guzzler
Honestly this just gives me a lot more sympathy for Otto. In moments like this its obvious he knows the difference between whats right for the realm and whats right for his brother, yet ironically just like Daemon his loyalty for his older brother always comes first.
Hobert openly calling Aegon “second of his name” and “his grace” basically saying that Viserys is already dead to him, super treasonous but Viserys didn’t clamp down on it strong enough 😔
It's not treasonous to call him "2nd of his name" or "his grace". Both are true and not treasonous at all... your grace is still due to the fact Aegon is a Prince.
@@thalmoragent9344 what? Neither are true. Prince Aegon isn’t the second Targaryen boy named Aegon, and only the king is to be called “your grace.” You never hear Rhaenyra or Aemond or Halaena get called “your grace,” do you?
No, the implication is that he already recognizes Aegon as heir over Rhaenyra, violating king Viserys’ will and, therefore, being treasonous.
@@thedemonhater7748 and the queen. King and queen get called your grace,
all the rest are called cunts.
No not really. Aegon was the second Aegon Targaryen. His grace is just a title for royalty, thats why they still call princes and princesses your grace.
@@AaronGuest there were many previous Aegon’s. Aegon the uncrowned, brother of king Jaehaerys, Jaehaerys’ firstborn son Aegon, who died as an infant, Viserys’ own infant brother Aegon, and many more.
I totally missed this scene. Definitely shows Otto's dynastic motives more clearly
Rewatching this scene, I dislike Otto less but I still dislike him because he let his brother press him like that. I like that angle though that, Otto realized EARLY that Aegon might not be it with that porridge comment but his Elder brother pushed him for power. Kinda wild because Otto had nothing to his name expect the Hand Title so he had to submit to his brother.
If Visery would have given Otto some land and titles… it would have been a wrap. No civil war, Otto goes down as a top 3 hand all time lol
Viserys should have stopped right there and corrected Otto's brother .. "this baby is the prince Aegon not Aegon 2nd of his name. No Grace, just Prince"
2nd of his name dosen't mean his heir it means he is the 2nd person to have the name aegon
@@Shivamkumar-uu9tu In that case he'd be Aegon the 5th. There were 4 princes named Aegon between King Aegon I and King Aegon II (aka this Aegon), he is calling Aegon the next King in line here, not just the second person to have the name Aegon.
The other Aegons are:
-Aegon I grandson
-Aegon firstborn son of Jaehaerys
-Viserys and Daemons younger brother
@@Shivamkumar-uu9tu numbers are only for kings. Both in the real world and in thrones. Until you actually get crowned you do not get a number.
@@TemariNaraannaschatz
Well, tbh its not so straightforward.
Sam calls Jon "Aegon the sixth of his name" but by Jon's time there had already been a dozen Aegon's born and dead.
@@thalmoragent9344 Never use GoT as an argument on how the world of Westeros works, it contridicts canon all the time:
Dany isn't fireproof, you can't decide randomly that your marriage is annuled and Jon isn't Aegon VI because he was never crowned king of the 7 kingdoms, just King in the North.
Otto did a great job of the pretense of loyalty when from the beginning he urged his daughter into her prescence with thr sole purpose if making his own bloodline royalty and sit on the throne. Hes slimey. But hes tactful
Not even slimy, it makes the most sense, logically speaking
“The flapping of a butterflies wings, can cause chaos across the world”
The butterfly effect.
A few persistent, ambitious, arrogant words from the wrong mouth brought down the Targaryen dynasty.
The modern party music in the background makes this all the better lol
fun fact you dont use the term second of his name etc until that man becomes the king. for example jon snows real name is aegon, but if he became the king only then would we use the term aegon the seventh
Pffff Otto's brother is no better than him
Yeah. He seemed worse. 😬
@@real_abiola All the greens (except healena) are nasty schemers.
@@exp_user1makesense722 still the blacks have a killed more innocents then the greens up until now.
Including their own wives.
Really makes you think how dumb an average viewer is.
@@samiam1059 I never said the blacks are innocents
@@exp_user1makesense722 based on the show, I don't think aegon is a schemer.
People would never let a woman rule the king should have seen it
thats absolute bs. Just look at all the support she got.
Funnily enough the most major ally of Aegon II was the same man that supported Rhaenys' claim, Lord Baratheon.
They were just a bunch of oath breakers nothing more
@@kaliningradtoczechrepublic8162
Yes but mostly due to Oaths. If Aegon 2 was openly made Heir, none of them would've been surprised. Whether they agreed or not, Viserys forced them to bow so they had no choice. They were bound by Oaths, not Ideology or their own will.
If a Great Council was called for this Succession, I guarantee you Aegon 2 would've won it, just as Viserys did over Rhaenyra...
@@WERTYUIO821
Actually no, Borros Baratheon actually didn't swear fealty to Viserys for Rhaenyra as Heir. His father did, but his father died in the, what, ariud 20 years since then? So yeah, Borros himself made no Oaths to Rhaenyra
@@kaliningradtoczechrepublic8162 Only because they either swore oaths, had one of the black dragons parked outside their castle or a nearby castle(much of the Riverlords), wanted a female ruler to legitimize their own reign (Arryn), or got a marriage pact. (Starks)
Hobart Hightower looks like an older Edmure Tully
Where is Roderik the Ruin Dustin when you need him....
How is Otto the older brother with that glorious beard?
The hightowers made me like the lannisters way more than I did. Ughhhhh they are insufferable.
House Hightower manipulating each other or something
Otto's ollder brother -----) Otto ----) Alicent ------) Aegon
If only viserys had the balls to fucking pass his test. You have Dragons, BURN ALL THE TREASONOUS SNAKES!!!!!!! I kno he can't bcuz of the show, but not making examples of people, ended with the dance coming to fruition. At least the black bloodline ended up sitting on the throne and alicent and her daddy got exactly what they deserved. Hopefully his brother did Too.
That’s mostly a show thing. In the book, especially late into his reign, he was rather cruel to any who questioned the legitimacy of Rhaenyra or her kids. If anything it made the Lords less enthusiastic about taking orders from her.
@@heathenpride7931 he had already married alicent and had Otto as hand, so later in his reign is too late.
i hate how insidious the hightower men are.
Don't forget about Margery and Jorah's wife ☠️☠️ they were Hightowers too by blood
The white stag appeared to Rheanyra and not Aegon 👎🏾
she should have killed it and brought back home
You have to kill the stag in ck2 agot for it to actually count, but I don’t know if that applies to the main lore.
Who tf cares? People seeing strange white stags in the woods is no basis for a system of government. 😂
The Green’s will see what they have wrought for themselves. All in due time.
ya she shows them by getting eaten lol
Five thousand years of written language and that’s the best you can do for sarcasm?
@@mikeowens514it's actually Rhaenyra who gets eaten 😂😂 by Aegon's golden a*s dragon🤣🤣
The worst scripted parts of the show. Exposition over exposition. Good show overall but the writing has plenty room for improvement.
Well said
Maturity is when u realise Daemon is villain
Real maturity is seeing that there's villains on both sides and there good people on both sides.
they've all basically been led up to this point by other people
the very reason alicent stops trusting rhaeneya is because christen Cole admitted to the affair they were having while alicent believes he was admitting to daemon and her doing it
That’s not. First born son his claim is just a strong as rhaenyras🥴
It’s even stronger then rhanerya’s
@@jbatts834 no it’s not if anything rhaenyra is stronger
@@angelbass5175 nope as the heirs of the iron throne have always been men. which is why her claim is so weak as even Jaehaerys(the greatest king of the dynasty) passed over a granddaughter for a son. That’s the root of the entire dance ppl are expecting a king it’s tradition in Westeros where sons go before daughters. Even when Viserys named Rhaenyra heir technically Aegon became heir in the eyes of many the moment he was born. The truth is Aegon was a weak man and king because his stubbornness with Rhaenyra doomed the dragons and his house because without the dragons the Targaryens would decline until eventually they loose the throne and it’s just Daenerys and Jon left to carry and entire dynasty and culture.
Viserys is weak lol*
@@CristianMartinez-yc6pr the thing is their being stuck in old ways viserys wasn’t weak. He was the only one who saw that things could change, men don’t think no differently than women. Men just want to feel validated that’s it. Being stuck in old ways is what got them where they was at in this current situation. Why is a woman good enough to be kings consort but not good enough to be king🥴😂men in old times are just stupid and think having a penis validates them and their actions. Last time I checked having a penis don’t mean u better or smarter just that your a male.