I am so always so impressed with the ability of these investigators to keep drilling down with such incredible determination through such intricate amounts of evidence to finally pinpoint the actual accident causation. Likewise, I am impressed with this channel’s ability to share the crash information in such detail, while still maintaining great respect for the accident victims and their families.
That’s truly heartbreaking. It’s so tragic that after all their years of flying together, they were so close to retirement. Life can be so unfair sometimes.😢😢😢!
I was a jurist at a trial over bogus bearings on airline generators in the early 90's. The generator was not a critical piece of equipment. It caused lights and airflow in the cabin to fail. Two defendants. One had 25 charges, the other had 26. The separate charge was lying to the FAA. We hung on every charge but that one. The bearings in question were still in the original boxes in the stock room. The bearings were purchased at a local distributor. The manager lied to the FAA about his knowledge of them. the other defendant was a machinist who tested the units. His problem was the testing machine did not go as high as required to pass the units. But it was all he had to work with. Of course we didn't know this at the time, but there had been several/many convictions on higher up people who knew, okayed, and insisted on the use of these bearings. Including the president of the company. Google Skyway Airlines, Rockford IL. Berry Bearings
The investigations of these older passenger planes are so much more interesting. And I love experts coming out of retirement because they are the last with knowledge on a lost art.
Then 11 years later in 2000 Alaska Airlines flight 261 mechanical failure due to old parts, broken parts and improper maintenance. The ATC recording is haunting.
The jack screw was a known single point of failure, and the airline wasn’t following inspection intervals so the threading being stripped was not discovered. Listening to the crew struggles was heart wrenching as they didn’t have a chance.
@tiffinyanderson4403 , Some things you mentioned were spot-on, like the airline (Alaska Airlines) the flight # (261) and the year (2000)... The date was 01/31/2000 @16:21... The main causes of that accident were 1)Overly aggressive production managers on the repair facility floors 2) Extended routine check intervals, requested by Alaska maintenance management, and granted by the FAA 3)Mechanics, who were tasked to perform these routine checks, who were "pencil ✏️ whipping' the procedures (signing, but NOT actually doing) the checklists... 4)An Inspector - finding problems with the stab-trim jackscrew and follower nut that adjusts the horiz stab trim being too far out - of the wear limits. 5)Upper management telling that inspector to take several weeks of paid time-off... 6) Upper management pressuring the floor production managers to delete the computer entry of what that inspector found, and destroyed the hand-written non-routine document that was generated by that inspector grounding that aircraft, until the horizontal stab trim actuator is replaced.... 7)The production managers kicking the tires and lighting the fires to get that plane flying again... Complete with the illegally worn horiz. stab. trim actuator 8) The Alaska Airlines SMC (Station Maint. Controller) in Seattle instructing the pilots to bypass the now (01/31/2000) problem plane with the inoperative horizontal stab trim, to continue flying past LAX, and to continue to SFO because it would match their schedules better to have it repaired in SFO... That was the last chance and radio transmission, to save the lives of all 88 souls onboard as the plane dove into the ocean nearly vertically going very fast... God bless those souls...
@@purdybillThe problem with the acme thread stab trim jackscrew & Nut WAS known by the production managers and probably upper management, but THEY decided to continue flying that plane...
@@michaelmartinez1345 In time honored American fashion, the federal government rallied to protect corporate criminals and no prosecution was brought against Alaskan Airlines.
For want of a nail, a shoe was lost. For want of a shoe, a horse was lost. For want of a horse, a knight was lost. Fort want of a knight, the skirmish was lost. So went the battle, then the war, all for the want of a nail.
There's another problem though, they want the Airline mechanics to be so good they can smell a bogus parts. The problem with that is they don't want to pay the aircraft mechanics a proper wage for their expertise. A good and professional mechanic is a dying breed.
That field is so underpaid that I know a couple of former aircraft mechanics that are in other lines of work. One is a truck driver, and the other works for the county we live in. Both were qualified jet engines mechanics.
Wages bottomed out in the automotive industry two decades ago. Mechanics made more money in the 80s than they do today. 80% of young bucks graduating from technical colleges will be out of the automotive industry in two years.
I personally know someone who was involved in this dirty business. He received ten years in prison for his deeds. He was once, the president of Colorado Aerospace Corp., Longmont, CO.
The type of greed that doesn't yield to the safety of human lives is unthinkable to me and I'd hope most people. It seems like a problem that should have been solved as soon as it was brought to light.
I worked for a Company that had bought Eastern Airlines parts. When they went bankrupt. They had 1000's of these Chinese knockoffs. The FAA made them stop using them. Then when that didn't work they shut the company down..
@@beestingza Right, because doctors prescribing people in pain the medication they need to live their lives with some semblance of normalcy is exactly the same thing...
Not incredible. Was there any part of the investigation that you didn't understand or seemed like magic? It takes a proper education, an intelligent mind that can apply that education, an intense amount of both inquisitiveness and skepticism and most importantly a lack of relevant prejudice. The NTSB used to have all that. (This video is about an accident investigated in 1989--1990). These days it is a political plaything in Congress' inept hands.
@@petep.2092 Wow, how rude. The fact that there are people out there willing to educate themselves and explain what happened to the rest of us is actually incredible.
This isn't new and you know it. I REALLY like this show - it gets so much right. It is both informative and entertaining all while remaining very respectful to the subject matter. However whoever runs this channel is constantly lying about new episodes being posted, even rewording the description/title. There is no need for that. Don't ruin a good thing ok.
I suggest you go on Wikipedia and find spin offs of the main show.. pay for TV.to.get "new" episodes or suck it up, sweetheart, it's FREE. Stop acting so entitled, the world owes you nothing!!!
I guess just as with freedom, the price of safety is eternal vigilance. It isn't just the regulations that make people safer, but the enforcement. Anyone who sleeps better at night only because of the regulations themselves, is fooling themself.
@@SomeOtherIdiot123 totally. Regulations are only definitions, not magical entities that control behavior. But they're also only based on what we've seen before, and don't always protect us from future possibilities; this vigilance hopefully results in changes before it's too late. In this case, I think the industry is suffering so much post-COVID that it's being affected as a whole; and while plenty have been calling for something to be done about all the (until now) near misses, maybe this is that same issue, but it's worse and more widespread than is commonly believed. I hope if the root ends up being a widespread industry change, that it helps to solve a lot more of the ongoing worrying problems.
The counterfeit parts problem was minimal until the US normalized relations with China in 1978. A huge influx of counterfeit parts for aviation, automotive, and industrial maintenance commenced shortly thereafter. Many car dealerships unknowingly are using counterfeit parts on your cars and pickups. These parts are contained in replica boxes that appear identical to OEM, and include the correct factory part number.
@@FRLN500 ah, that makes a lot of sense. I feel like that sort of thing would have been taken care of with tariffs and sanctions if it were a fair and just world, but instead, the bottom line would have been affected too much and that's what currently controls things. Hasn't changed at all since then in that regard, only gotten worse.
They have known about this since 1989. But all that happened was that all the small time dealers were put out of business, and that left the field open to the big time deals. The lastest arrest was made in 2023. The beat goes on.
This documentary exposes the fact that our country isn't as rock solid secure as we're all lead to believe. From aircraft parts to the food we eat....a LOT of shenanigans take place every day. Meanwhile innocent people die.
the part about the food we eat...... check out the F.D.A guidelines about the allowed number of insect parts in our food. we all eat a certain number of cockroach, fly, maggots and other insect parts in all of our foods because it impossible to keep bugs out of the factories and fields our food comes from they get into the grinding process and then consumed by us! and it doesn't matter if it's canned, powder food or juice. bon appétit everyone!
That was an amazing investigation. I am very impressed that they stayed with it until the actually found the cause. Corruption again. People willing to violate the ethics of their profession. Inspectors willing to overlook. Distributors will to sell parts that don't meet the specs. The entire system of trust breaks down. Epic Fail.
Well, the point was, _there was no regulation on the parts industry in the US until this crash got the FAA onto it!_ People-historically Republicans-are all about “small government,” which translates to little or no regulations. If you don’t believe me, look up Ronald Reagan’s deregulation activity and you’ll see what I mean. The problem with the conservative and libertarian view is that citizens are expected to trust that people will regulate themselves with no need of governmental oversight, but it’s precisely the untrustworthiness of unscrupulous people who are only interested in making profits from the unwary which requires governmental oversight. And, with the very high level of sociopaths and psychopaths in our country, some say as many as 20 per 100 people, shows that it’s probably people without consciences who are the ones who rig the system in such a clever way that they don’t get caught.
All of this over 4 small screws that actually turned out to be Counterfeits…woah. Amazing investigation work by this crew. Crazy to hear that after this incident in 1989 that led to hundreds of criminal arrest, not a single crash since has been linked to bogus parts.
I doubt they were small screws. I would assume they were bolts of a fair size. I also don’t remember hearing how they determined without any doubt that the bolts were the culprit. They didn’t mention that the bolts had failed since they recovered all of them, we should know the answer to this.
@@lkytmryan they said that because those parts were not built to standard they were vibrating more. Because the vibrations reached a harmonic sync, that then caused the plane to vibrate violently and led to the doors of the vert stab falling off
About 50 years ago the US Army was still building and using MA-1 Jeeps around the world. I was assigned to the forward maintenance centre. It was the early 70's and we got the new CJ-5 Jeep to test. When ever we turned in a MA-1, property disposal where they would be crushed and then cut up into 4 pieces. It seems some companies were buying these older jeeps, striping everything, fixing(?) parts, and resell to the DOD as new....I was the procurement officer back then and I was shocked that people would do that, since I just got back years earlier from combat in Vietnam...all that equipment...who knows?
I like the face of the actor playing the older pilot. He’s got character in his face. It’s a face I would like to draw. Distinctive, unique, visually interesting.
These stories always seem to start with exotic theories of bombs, missiles or sabotage but always end up being due to cost-cutting, human error, incompetence, ineffective CRM, adverse weather, or bent industry practices.
Profits as always. Even my car mechanic refuses to install bogus parts on his clients cars, he will ask them to take the car to someone else if they want to save a few bucks.
Liability. Legitimate mechanics will not use bogus parts cause it’s a liability issue, especially if it’s critical to the safety of the driver and passengers. Even third party parts have to go through certifications and tests to ensure it’s up to code.
@@itjustlookslikethis Pilots are in a position where they have to trust other people to take care of things. I feel confident in my car…I do all maintenance myself. I never feel save in other cars like taxis or buses. Flying somewhere is a whole new dimension…
That's scary that the FAA's own part catalogue was riddled with almost 40% of bogus parts. Tombstone technology and regulation is unfortunately the only way that aviation becomes as safe as it is today.
@@petep.2092 If they were easy t to spot, they wouldn't be a very good fake, would they? I was just surprised, not saying the FAA was purposely neglectful or careful.
@@ch0colatemilkThe FAA has blood on its hands when comes to the 737 Max. Two crashes 5 months apart! Countries started grounding them unilaterally. Hate Trump, but he did the right thing in unilaterally grounding the US aircraft. FAA still dithered. Their was a "special" relationship between them and Boeing! The CEO at the time resigned, but received 62 million dollars. Disgusting. He even went on TV stating categorically that the plane was safe in an effort at push back. Their merger with MD has been touted as the reason for quality being played down ahead of profits! Good Netflix documentary on this. Excellent YT video which covers the NF content plus several more problems other than MCAS going forward. Both worth a see.
It is possible to tell differences in hardened steel or heat tempered bolts compared to mass produced hardware bolts and nuts. I experienced this in building racing engines needing hardened steel bolts for rod and crankshaft bolts. Bolting moving engine parts together. Modifying an engine to turn 10,000 to 12,000 rpms compared to factory rpms of 5,000 to 6,500 rpms requires stronger bolts. I paid a shady character dude to rebuild the bottom end of a racing engine that came apart and blew up the first race. Upon inspection, we found he used standard hardware bolts purchased in any hardware store for 50 to 60 cents each, whereas the racing bolts for the higher rpms were approximately 8 to 10 dollars each. (sold in packs of 16 for an average of $130.00 per set). I could easily tell the difference.
Usually I can guess what the outcome or answer is going to be in this case I just had to wait for the story to unfold. Great story. Sad that it happened.
Looking at the bolts it's fairly obvious that 3 are bogus. Aircraft bolts are bored through at the end for safety wiring. This wire will not allow the nut to come off the bolt. Only one of the bolts shown had that hole. The material code on the head tells the rest of the story.
@bills6116 Some of the fasteners have drilled wrenching heads , some special applications use other methods to secure the wrenching heads, like tab washers...Some threaded fasteners have a hole drilled through the center of the threaded shank, for using a cotter pin and a castleated nut, while other applications use different methods to safety the hardware from vibration loosening them... Again, it depends on the application... The aircraft IPC can then be referenced for the correct parts to be used in those specific applications... The markings on the head of the bolts used on aircraft, usually do NOT tell what their tensile strength is, like what they do in the automotive / trucking industries... The aircraft hardware can be very specific & specialised, and critical parts are often given an authenticity certificate , which is submitted with the paperwork for that specific job... These critical structural parts can also be serialised and extremely expensive, which attracted the unscrupulous counterfeit aircraft parts suppliers like 🧲 Magnets to Iron .... The heavy penalties to those who were caught doing this, pretty much put a stop to it....
Those aren't the fasteners used to secure the horizontal and vertical stabilizers to the fuselage of a CV580. I expect they just used any bolt as props for the video.
I have a diploma for aircraft mechanic, but my trade is aerospace machinist. I worked at the company and components of that aircraft. The fastener is a shouldered split bushing with a tapered bore. A standard AN tapered pin is inserted through the bushing locking it in to the fittings that mount the stabilizers. There are thin walled SS bushings in each of the aluminum bores on the fitting. @michaelmartinez1345
@@Scubahoy Interesting, so what chapter of the IPC do those fasteners have their part #'s and associated hardware listed? Which chapter of the AMM, were the minimum faster thickness and length specs. found ? What type of material were the pass-through fittings made of , that were securing those surfaces of the empenage, to the crown section of the fuse? Where were these planes originally manufactured? Do You recall the "standard AN tapered pin" hardware specs on the IPC call-out? What material was the "standard AN tapered pin" made of? Was it Ferrous?
I keep a list of crash causes, and I check them when I get on a plane: 'have you checked the pitot tubes?', 'did the refueller use the volume units on the docket?', etc. Now I can add: have you checked the tail fin bolts are certified genuine parts?
There are several jets specifically designated as Air Force 1. They are specially equipped for security, medical care, as well as comfort. Some of the retired Air Force 1's are on static display at various aviation museums. I toured the one at the Boeing museum in Seattle. They are far from being your typical passenger jet.
@FRLN500 yes there are several designated presidential planes. But whatever plane the Pilot is flying in has the call sign Air Force One at that moment. If you had a private plane and the President was flying in it with you, your plane would be Air Force One. Not that that would ever happen.
@samuelworkman51 "Tha would never happen" You kind of negated your point. I get what you are trying to say but I think you also realize it doesn't exactly matter here. They are referring to The few planes specifically set aside for the President.
I'm at 20 minutes and since the beginning I've been thinking that the F16 had something to do with the crash. Maybe it was supersonic and blasted the convair with shockwaves or something. That hasn't been mentioned yet so I'm still in suspense..
Love the investigators in this piece. I am always skeptical when the FAA gets convictions to pass the buck. The FAA spokesperson said they found off market parts that represented 39% of their own inventory, but I bet they refused to indict one of their own. CYA
6 million moving parts on a 747. To think we get onto these planes and know we are relying on humans to reliably build and maintain these massive aluminum bucket of bolts is kind of insane. Definitely a leap of faith.
These pilots were so dedicated to ensuring their passengers got to where they were going. They went to great lengths to ensure that plane took off for them and (whether they meant to or not) protect the airline’s reputation. They are exactly the kind of employees any company would want. Perhaps less caring employees would have let the flight be grounded and saved everyone’s life. What a terrible, ironic dichotomy. ETA: there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about the point I’m making here. This isn’t about blaming the pilots. It’s simply pointing out the *irony* that they were so dedicated and there were points that if they hadn’t been, the flight might not have taken off and the lives would have been saved. That’s not blaming the pilots. They did nothing wrong. They couldn’t have known they were flying a doomed plane. How many crash investigations have you seen where pilot performance WAS and issue? How many times have you seen good pilots go this far out of their way to get their passengers where they’re going? It’s tragic irony but irony nonetheless. It’s an observation and nothing more.
@pensivelyrebelling , To a point, yes... That makes good sense... But to what extent should the aircraft be allowed to continue to fly, in that condition? I remember working at a major U.S. airline, and other aircraft maintenance facilities , where policies were determined for each aircraft type, known as the MEL and CDL lists... They are still probably being used to this day... The M.E.L. are the Minimum Equipment Lists... The C.D.L. are the Configuration Deviation Lists... They gave the pilots a basic guideline of what IS, and IS NOT acceptable for safe flight... The Mechanics (Technicians) who assigned those inoperative systems a deferment to temporarily operate in this manner had to make an aircraft logbook entry and put a deferment tag (placard) on the circuit breaker /control device of the affected system. The technician also had to generate a notice on the deferment on that aircraft in the digital data records at the maintenance facility... Deferments Have to be authorised by the AMM (Aircraft Maintenance Manual) and the number of flights / time the deferment could be applied before the aircraft would be grounded .. Basically, a deferment is aka a 'band aid' temporary solution , to get that plane to safely reach it's next destination...
@@michaelmartinez1345 I don’t disagree. I was pointing out the irony of the dedication of these pilots meaning everyone died. A policy discussion about when an aircraft should be allowed to fly is obviously necessary. The pilots did nothing wrong, even if policies need to be put in place to better protect everyone in planes. To me, this has a tangential relationship to the point I made. There are many cases where aircraft have gone down due to pilot error and poor performance. This is not one of those cases and that’s part of the irony.
This series is the very best!!!! I admire seeing how regular people who have excellent work ethics use them so well. I wish I could thank each and every one of them!!!!
Was the F16 pilot testimony of a thousand feet altitude separation verified and what was the timing between the two planes passing each other and the Convair losing control? No wake turbulence was mentioned as a possible scenario, only a sonic boom shockwave which was dismissed as the cause. Could the pilots have applied full rudder as corrective action when encountering wake/vortex turbulence and in effect placed the straw that broke the camel's back.
Damn good investigation but according to the comments I've seen there are still questions and problems out there. If there are still bogus parts I would hope mechanics and others would make the FAA aware of them. I imagine they won't go lightly if verified.
@dh88k Back when that event took place, the minimum vertical separation was less than it is now... The last time that I heard, the RVSM of all airspace is 2,000'. I'm thinking that possible transonic / supersonic shock waves would be far more reaching than wake/vortex turbulance, particularly at those extreme closing speeds... That could have snapped a few of those cheap bolts holding that vert. stab onto the empinage base... That is a good observation, and a possible assessment You made, of what could have finally caused those base bolts , securing the vertical stab to the fuselage empenage area, to snap... What a terrifying ride for everybody aboard ,all the way to the ocean. God save their souls...
I know nothing about planes. Never been on one. Many things seemed to have led up to this but from what I understand (very well could be wrong) is the bolts on the tail fin 3-4 have not been replaced. The military jet got very close and that F16 could have disturbed the wind path and put force on the tail wing causing tail bolts snap. Bad parts, weak parts. If those bolts where what they where suppose to be, it would have turned out different.
i just realized... a lot of the video/audio narrative clips are from other videos from the Mayday series, a lot of clips in this episode, was in the last episode i watched just before watching this episode
The amount an airline pays out in lawsuits when a disaster happens probably doesn't come close to the amount of money saved from using cheaper, unapproved mechanical part. It's amazing to me how they can put a plane back together after a crash piece by piece.l You know you're the $hit when they come get you out of retirement to do something.
May all the victims rest in peace. At least they didn't die in vain, because of this crash the inspection led to finding bogus dealers and parts, saving hundreds of lives.
I have another theory. Instead of the vibration causing the tail to fall off, it was a sudden jam either one direction or the other super hard during mid flight 😮 this would be because the copilot was looking up at the F-16 and swallowed his toothpick 😮😮 Imagine the horror as he jammed the floor rudder either one way or the other. The crappy bolts couldn't handle that kind of pressure in mid flight 😮 So imagine that Captain caught off guard as his friend grabs his own throat and pushes on the floor 😮 🤔 just thinking... Maybe
I’m amazed they seem to find almost all of aircraft’s that get into trouble. It’s admirable how committed the team involved in an investigation. Right down to the people finding parts and pieces. I know flight crews have recurrent training yearly. I truly hope they are doing the same for the mechanics. It’s normally done to combat complacency that must be part of the reason for these horrible mechanically related decisions made many times on this aircraft. Everything done mechanically an aircraft are recorded cradle to grave. Imagine being a mechanic knowing your work was part of the reason lives were lost. Imagine knowing the company you work cuts corners on parts and someday these parts could be why people have died.
If the CVR had nothing on it after the flight took off, how did the airline know the Norwegian F-16 had passed by. In the investigation they don't mention except for an unidentified object they saw on a military radar. I too like this channel and their casting is perfect, the actors and the real persons look almost similar.
I do not think only 4 bolts is crazy, but crazy is, that mechanic in Kelowna did’t change them all regardless of the cost! How much money has been spent on this investigation, insurance pay out, funerals and everything else…?
That is so creepy that businesses would buy bogus parts that get used by the airline industry, literally an accident waiting to happen. I realize these parts must be held to strict specifications because of the needs of aircraft.
The main problem is human nature. Managers are under pressure to reduce costs- in many cases, their jobs depend on it. If they are offered a chance to procure cheaper parts, they might not look too closely at the source.
Those two planes were Way Too Close. There should be at least 1k of separation. Getting caught in a wake of an F 16 is not good. The larger plane has a stronger wake than the smaller plane. Edit: 5k to 10k separation
I guess it has also meant that manufacturers have been able to charge outrageous prices for genuine parts. So not entirely a win win situation. Though, sometimes for instance car engine bolts are tightened till they have just started to yield in which case they should not be used again. So using unknown origin bolts would be particularly risky.
I’ve been watching a lot of these videos. I’m on the side that nothing that has to do with electrical power, fuel, engines and controls should all be functioning. This will force Airlines to be more diligent in assuring the planes are airworthy.
@lawrencenay8671 , Several Airlines DO have lists of critical items for safe flight... Basically, the RII list (Required Inspection Item list) , lines-up the most important things that need to be checked with another set of trained eyes and properly signed-off before that plane goes back up for another flight... Excellent observation Amigo!!!
Why? The failed generator was not the cause of this accident. Applying random "solutions" that don't fix a problem is not intelligent and may even cause harm.
The airplane was not unairworthy because it was dispatched with the APU running to compensate for the inoperative engine-driven generator. You made that up.
There was a similar Naval exercise going on in the sector adjacent to TWA Flight 800, which exploded in the 80s and crashed into the sea. Hundreds of people are on record as claiming they saw an arc of light heading from the sea to the plane
This video suggests that bogus counterfeit parts are history; they are not. Just this past year the US AirForce grounded its stratoliner tankers over vertical stabilizers with bogus parts. As long as there are unscrupulous people in supply chains, they will be bought. Over my 50 year engineering career I've seen them in every commercial power application - nuclear, fossil and combined cycle. Rigeur and dealing only with dealers of integrity prevents them from being installed. Virtually all purveyors I've seen have never been taken to task.
"Conspiracy" and "cover up" in the title are incredibly misleading, neither of those were a factor in the manner people would think of those terms, and I have no doubt those terms were not used for the original TV show. "Illegal", "fake parts" etc would be much more valid.
Many of the aircraft flying for smaller less well known airlines , have had a chequered career. Thousands of take offs and landings through short haul flights puts an enormous strain upon airframes .
I watched this show when it was voiced by a Canadian. That show wasn’t sensationalised. It had just the right balance of informing what happened in crashes told with a voice carrying compassion and respect for the passengers who died. Just my opinion, but I think the original person’s voice did a much better job than this voice.
41:46 That animation is harrowing. I hope none of the passengers were conscious when the plane ripped apart like that. Falling from an airplane from thousands of feet up in the air while knowing I’m about to die is my greatest fear.
"Use the APU to power the left side AC systems!" The MEL tells you the minimum equipment required for a reason, so you don't open yourself up for bullsh!t like this accident!
My question is really why is said bolt selling for $200. Likely because it is for an aircraft. Same part, same Rockwell hardness spec, diameter, thread pitch, etc. and sold to industrial sector it might sell for $45. I understand the parts made for aircraft might fly people, but the same spec industrial parts might actually protect much more lives than an aircraft so that argument is countered some. It reminds me of the same argument of why prescriptions are more expensive in some places (like America) than they are in others when they cost the same to manufacture. I get liability insurance is a big cost and is a factor in both examples.
There are many things that can be learned from an investigation such as this one. But amidst all the facts presented, there is one observation that stands out in my mind. Near the end of the video, a former executive of the Department of Transportation remarks that there are many regulations that govern the manufacture of parts/components of airplanes, regulations that did not exist in the 1970s and 1980s. If you look at the wave of deregulations initiated by the Reagan Administration and carried on throughout the recent history of the Republican Party, you'll see a pattern of "cutting the safety net" in order to please the many multinationals that donate so heavily to the GOP. And today, louder than ever, Republicans continue to demand cuts in the regulations that help keep us safe. I try not to ponder those demands as I fly.
I am so always so impressed with the ability of these investigators to keep drilling down with such incredible determination through such intricate amounts of evidence to finally pinpoint the actual accident causation. Likewise, I am impressed with this channel’s ability to share the crash information in such detail, while still maintaining great respect for the accident victims and their families.
They really are unsung heroes of their industry.
Mesmerizing
Apparently the Suspected Unapproved Parts program was canceled.
Facts
But both can still make mistakes.
The saddest part was that the 2 pilots were 2 friends who flew around the world together and only a few months from retirement! 😢😢😢😢😢
Also the copilot paid for the catering since the airline had not!
@@premkudvahmm 🤔
Something fishy about this whole disaster... Wasn't a prime minister of Norway on the plane as well?...
Thing is, one of them was a dodgy businessman too whose dodgy practices led to the airline cutting corners.
That’s truly heartbreaking. It’s so tragic that after all their years of flying together, they were so close to retirement. Life can be so unfair sometimes.😢😢😢!
I was a jurist at a trial over bogus bearings on airline generators in the early 90's. The generator was not a critical piece of equipment. It caused lights and airflow in the cabin to fail. Two defendants. One had 25 charges, the other had 26. The separate charge was lying to the FAA. We hung on every charge but that one. The bearings in question were still in the original boxes in the stock room. The bearings were purchased at a local distributor. The manager lied to the FAA about his knowledge of them. the other defendant was a machinist who tested the units. His problem was the testing machine did not go as high as required to pass the units. But it was all he had to work with.
Of course we didn't know this at the time, but there had been several/many convictions on higher up people who knew, okayed, and insisted on the use of these bearings. Including the president of the company.
Google Skyway Airlines, Rockford IL. Berry Bearings
Worse yet, being so close to Rock Island I bet that company has sold bearings for military aircraft too.
Wow!! Incredible story!!
Why was the charges were hung? What prevented many from convicting on the other charges?
@@The_ZeroLine
a juror?
The investigations of these older passenger planes are so much more interesting. And I love experts coming out of retirement because they are the last with knowledge on a lost art.
…so much more interesting…so you need more of such interesting incidents?
Bro 🤦🏻@@zdenekkindl2778
Then 11 years later in 2000 Alaska Airlines flight 261 mechanical failure due to old parts, broken parts and improper maintenance. The ATC recording is haunting.
One of the most horrifying and tragic crashes I've ever learned about. Those pilots tried until the bitter end 💔.
The jack screw was a known single point of failure, and the airline wasn’t following inspection intervals so the threading being stripped was not discovered.
Listening to the crew struggles was heart wrenching as they didn’t have a chance.
@tiffinyanderson4403 , Some things you mentioned were spot-on, like the airline (Alaska Airlines) the flight # (261) and the year (2000)... The date was 01/31/2000 @16:21...
The main causes of that accident were 1)Overly aggressive production managers on the repair facility floors 2) Extended routine check intervals, requested by Alaska maintenance management, and granted by the FAA
3)Mechanics, who were tasked to perform these routine checks, who were "pencil ✏️ whipping' the procedures (signing, but NOT actually doing) the checklists...
4)An Inspector - finding problems with the stab-trim jackscrew and follower nut that adjusts the horiz stab trim being too far out - of the wear limits.
5)Upper management telling that inspector to take several weeks of paid time-off...
6) Upper management pressuring the floor production managers to delete the computer entry of what that inspector found, and destroyed the hand-written non-routine document that was generated by that inspector grounding that aircraft, until the horizontal stab trim actuator is replaced....
7)The production managers kicking the tires and lighting the fires to get that plane flying again... Complete with the illegally worn horiz. stab. trim actuator
8) The Alaska Airlines SMC (Station Maint. Controller) in Seattle instructing the pilots to bypass the now (01/31/2000) problem plane with the inoperative horizontal stab trim, to continue flying past LAX, and to continue to SFO because it would match their schedules better to have it repaired in SFO... That was the last chance and radio transmission, to save the lives of all 88 souls onboard as the plane dove into the ocean nearly vertically going very fast... God bless those souls...
@@purdybillThe problem with the acme thread stab trim jackscrew & Nut WAS known by the production managers and probably upper management, but THEY decided to continue flying that plane...
@@michaelmartinez1345 In time honored American fashion, the federal government rallied to protect corporate criminals and no prosecution was brought against Alaskan Airlines.
For want of a nail, a shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe, a horse was lost.
For want of a horse, a knight was lost.
Fort want of a knight, the skirmish was lost.
So went the battle, then the war, all for the want of a nail.
Absolutely sometimes it's a little tiny thing that didn't seem important that'll set into motion a series of events that make big problems.
That’s ONE version. Mine goes: “For want of a MESSAGE (not Knight) a (don’t remember) was lost.
@@samiam619 horse or messenger?
I LOVE that. I mean, as a learning tool, not the actual sort of hellish domino effect.
@@Stitchwitchstitch its the worst quote in history. A loser wrote it
There's another problem though, they want the Airline mechanics to be so good they can smell a bogus parts. The problem with that is they don't want to pay the aircraft mechanics a proper wage for their expertise. A good and professional mechanic is a dying breed.
That field is so underpaid that I know a couple of former aircraft mechanics that are in other lines of work. One is a truck driver, and the other works for the county we live in. Both were qualified jet engines mechanics.
Wages bottomed out in the automotive industry two decades ago. Mechanics made more money in the 80s than they do today. 80% of young bucks graduating from technical colleges will be out of the automotive industry in two years.
I personally know someone who was involved in this dirty business. He received ten years in prison for his deeds. He was once, the president of Colorado Aerospace Corp., Longmont, CO.
The type of greed that doesn't yield to the safety of human lives is unthinkable to me and I'd hope most people. It seems like a problem that should have been solved as soon as it was brought to light.
I worked for a Company that had bought Eastern Airlines parts. When they went bankrupt. They had 1000's of these Chinese knockoffs. The FAA made them stop using them. Then when that didn't work they shut the company down..
No regard for life!
@@CornvilleConsigliere No different than doctors prescribing OxyContin or whatever.
@@beestingza Right, because doctors prescribing people in pain the medication they need to live their lives with some semblance of normalcy is exactly the same thing...
Man being air traffic controllers do take a great deal of mental strength! Props to them.
Is just incredible how they can sift through the wreckage of an aircraft million millions of pieces and pinpoint the failure
Not incredible. Was there any part of the investigation that you didn't understand or seemed like magic? It takes a proper education, an intelligent mind that can apply that education, an intense amount of both inquisitiveness and skepticism and most importantly a lack of relevant prejudice. The NTSB used to have all that. (This video is about an accident investigated in 1989--1990). These days it is a political plaything in Congress' inept hands.
@@petep.2092 It's incredible how they can sift thru a million parts and pinpoint a failure regardless of your opinion Mr. Know it all.
@@petep.2092 just because you know how something works doesn't make it not incredible
@@petep.2092 I bet you're a really fun person to be around...
@@petep.2092 Wow, how rude. The fact that there are people out there willing to educate themselves and explain what happened to the rest of us is actually incredible.
This isn't new and you know it. I REALLY like this show - it gets so much right. It is both informative and entertaining all while remaining very respectful to the subject matter. However whoever runs this channel is constantly lying about new episodes being posted, even rewording the description/title. There is no need for that. Don't ruin a good thing ok.
Sadly, MUCH of the internet is all about FALSE claims to get clicks, so you can't trust much of anything.
What? Since when are reuploads a new thing?
I suggest you go on Wikipedia and find spin offs of the main show.. pay for TV.to.get "new" episodes or suck it up, sweetheart, it's FREE. Stop acting so entitled, the world owes you nothing!!!
Yeah wasn't there a recent flight (like last 20 25 years) that went down due to bogus parts? I seem to recall one but can't remember which.
I'm with Christian.
Bogus parts are still an ongoing scandal. Doesn't make me feel any safer knowing how long it's been going on.
I guess just as with freedom, the price of safety is eternal vigilance. It isn't just the regulations that make people safer, but the enforcement. Anyone who sleeps better at night only because of the regulations themselves, is fooling themself.
@@SomeOtherIdiot123 totally. Regulations are only definitions, not magical entities that control behavior. But they're also only based on what we've seen before, and don't always protect us from future possibilities; this vigilance hopefully results in changes before it's too late.
In this case, I think the industry is suffering so much post-COVID that it's being affected as a whole; and while plenty have been calling for something to be done about all the (until now) near misses, maybe this is that same issue, but it's worse and more widespread than is commonly believed. I hope if the root ends up being a widespread industry change, that it helps to solve a lot more of the ongoing worrying problems.
The counterfeit parts problem was minimal until the US normalized relations with China in 1978. A huge influx of counterfeit parts for aviation, automotive, and industrial maintenance commenced shortly thereafter. Many car dealerships unknowingly are using counterfeit parts on your cars and pickups. These parts are contained in replica boxes that appear identical to OEM, and include the correct factory part number.
@@FRLN500 ah, that makes a lot of sense. I feel like that sort of thing would have been taken care of with tariffs and sanctions if it were a fair and just world, but instead, the bottom line would have been affected too much and that's what currently controls things. Hasn't changed at all since then in that regard, only gotten worse.
It happens all the time with the automobile industry. Thats why so many recalls.
These guys could find that needle in a hay stack. They are amazing. You safe so many lives by doing what you do. You all deserve a medal
Can't imagine the terror that all the poor victims of plane crashes go through. Just absolutely the stuff of nightmares!
It gives me a chuckle in all of these videos how on turboprop airplanes they still add the piston engine noise instead.
Oh so what...jeez
@@tiggragg2749 it’s dumb that’s what… jeez
@@Malzanar2010 o one cares...
I get it, it’s funny. Having flown a few turbine prop aircraft in my years before the getting into a jet.
Another one I watched earlier had Huey noises for a Bo 117.
Several years after this happened, I had a neighbor that went to federal prison for selling bogus parts to the Air Force.
They have known about this since 1989. But all that happened was that all the small time dealers were put out of business, and that left the field open to the big time deals. The lastest arrest was made in 2023. The beat goes on.
This documentary exposes the fact that our country isn't as rock solid secure as we're all lead to believe. From aircraft parts to the food we eat....a LOT of shenanigans take place every day. Meanwhile innocent people die.
the part about the food we eat...... check out the F.D.A guidelines about the allowed number of insect parts in our food. we all eat a certain number of cockroach, fly, maggots and other insect parts in all of our foods because it impossible to keep bugs out of the factories and fields our food comes from they get into the grinding process and then consumed by us! and it doesn't matter if it's canned, powder food or juice. bon appétit everyone!
True.
You see this big time in Russia and China
That was an amazing investigation. I am very impressed that they stayed with it until the actually found the cause.
Corruption again. People willing to violate the ethics of their profession. Inspectors willing to overlook. Distributors will to sell parts that don't meet the specs. The entire system of trust breaks down. Epic Fail.
Well, the point was, _there was no regulation on the parts industry in the US until this crash got the FAA onto it!_ People-historically Republicans-are all about “small government,” which translates to little or no regulations. If you don’t believe me, look up Ronald Reagan’s deregulation activity and you’ll see what I mean. The problem with the conservative and libertarian view is that citizens are expected to trust that people will regulate themselves with no need of governmental oversight, but it’s precisely the untrustworthiness of unscrupulous people who are only interested in making profits from the unwary which requires governmental oversight. And, with the very high level of sociopaths and psychopaths in our country, some say as many as 20 per 100 people, shows that it’s probably people without consciences who are the ones who rig the system in such a clever way that they don’t get caught.
All of this over 4 small screws that actually turned out to be Counterfeits…woah. Amazing investigation work by this crew. Crazy to hear that after this incident in 1989 that led to hundreds of criminal arrest, not a single crash since has been linked to bogus parts.
Amazing recovery skills by whoever found all of those bogus screws on the bottom of the North Atlantic.
Alaska Air 261?
I doubt they were small screws.
I would assume they were bolts of a fair size.
I also don’t remember hearing how they determined without any doubt that the bolts were the culprit.
They didn’t mention that the bolts had failed since they recovered all of them, we should know the answer to this.
@@lkytmryan they said that because those parts were not built to standard they were vibrating more. Because the vibrations reached a harmonic sync, that then caused the plane to vibrate violently and led to the doors of the vert stab falling off
Mechanical resonance is something you absolutely do not want to mess with.
About 50 years ago the US Army was still building and using MA-1 Jeeps around the world. I was assigned to the forward maintenance centre. It was the early 70's and we got the new CJ-5 Jeep to test. When ever we turned in a MA-1, property disposal where they would be crushed and then cut up into 4 pieces. It seems some companies were buying these older jeeps, striping everything, fixing(?) parts, and resell to the DOD as new....I was the procurement officer back then and I was shocked that people would do that, since I just got back years earlier from combat in Vietnam...all that equipment...who knows?
I like the face of the actor playing the older pilot. He’s got character in his face. It’s a face I would like to draw. Distinctive, unique, visually interesting.
Is that a good or bad thing?
@@chicken-winghunterit’s a great thing. He just has a good face, that’s all.
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
He’s also decked out like a pilot… BIG EFFIN WATCH!
Pause the videos an have fun 😂😂
These stories always seem to start with exotic theories of bombs, missiles or sabotage but always end up being due to cost-cutting, human error, incompetence, ineffective CRM, adverse weather, or bent industry practices.
Profits as always.
Even my car mechanic refuses to install bogus parts on his clients cars, he will ask them to take the car to someone else if they want to save a few bucks.
not all mechanics are like that.... some put on cheap parts and charge you for the premium price....
That airline sent that plane to a 3rd party FOB to do its Maintenace, how would it have known about the bogus bolts?
Liability. Legitimate mechanics will not use bogus parts cause it’s a liability issue, especially if it’s critical to the safety of the driver and passengers. Even third party parts have to go through certifications and tests to ensure it’s up to code.
That's a mechanic that has integrity.
@@itjustlookslikethis Pilots are in a position where they have to trust other people to take care of things. I feel confident in my car…I do all maintenance myself. I never feel save in other cars like taxis or buses.
Flying somewhere is a whole new dimension…
That's scary that the FAA's own part catalogue was riddled with almost 40% of bogus parts. Tombstone technology and regulation is unfortunately the only way that aviation becomes as safe as it is today.
Maybe you missed the part in the video that says how difficult it is to tell a fake part from a genuine part.
@@petep.2092 If they were easy t to spot, they wouldn't be a very good fake, would they? I was just surprised, not saying the FAA was purposely neglectful or careful.
@@ch0colatemilkThe FAA has blood on its hands when comes to the 737 Max. Two crashes 5 months apart! Countries started grounding them unilaterally. Hate Trump, but he did the right thing in unilaterally grounding the US aircraft. FAA still dithered. Their was a "special" relationship between them and Boeing! The CEO at the time resigned, but received 62 million dollars. Disgusting. He even went on TV stating categorically that the plane was safe in an effort at push back. Their merger with MD has been touted as the reason for quality being played down ahead of profits! Good Netflix documentary on this. Excellent YT video which covers the NF content plus several more problems other than MCAS going forward. Both worth a see.
It is possible to tell differences in hardened steel or heat tempered bolts compared to mass produced hardware bolts and nuts. I experienced this in building racing engines needing hardened steel bolts for rod and crankshaft bolts. Bolting moving engine parts together. Modifying an engine to turn 10,000 to 12,000 rpms compared to factory rpms of 5,000 to 6,500 rpms requires stronger bolts. I paid a shady character dude to rebuild the bottom end of a racing engine that came apart and blew up the first race. Upon inspection, we found he used standard hardware bolts purchased in any hardware store for 50 to 60 cents each, whereas the racing bolts for the higher rpms were approximately 8 to 10 dollars each. (sold in packs of 16 for an average of $130.00 per set). I could easily tell the difference.
ARP hardware is always worth the price
Usually I can guess what the outcome or answer is going to be in this case I just had to wait for the story to unfold. Great story. Sad that it happened.
Looking at the bolts it's fairly obvious that 3 are bogus. Aircraft bolts are bored through at the end for safety wiring. This wire will not allow the nut to come off the bolt.
Only one of the bolts shown had that hole. The material code on the head tells the rest of the story.
@bills6116 Some of the fasteners have drilled wrenching heads , some special applications use other methods to secure the wrenching heads, like tab washers...Some threaded fasteners have a hole drilled through the center of the threaded shank, for using a cotter pin and a castleated nut, while other applications use different methods to safety the hardware from vibration loosening them... Again, it depends on the application... The aircraft IPC can then be referenced for the correct parts to be used in those specific applications... The markings on the head of the bolts used on aircraft, usually do NOT tell what their tensile strength is, like what they do in the automotive / trucking industries... The aircraft hardware can be very specific & specialised, and critical parts are often given an authenticity certificate , which is submitted with the paperwork for that specific job... These critical structural parts can also be serialised and extremely expensive, which attracted the unscrupulous counterfeit aircraft parts suppliers like 🧲 Magnets to Iron .... The heavy penalties to those who were caught doing this, pretty much put a stop to it....
Those aren't the fasteners used to secure the horizontal and vertical stabilizers to the fuselage of a CV580. I expect they just used any bolt as props for the video.
@@Scubahoy Possibly.... What are the types of fasteners used in these kind of aircraft? Do you have AN numbers?
I have a diploma for aircraft mechanic, but my trade is aerospace machinist. I worked at the company and components of that aircraft. The fastener is a shouldered split bushing with a tapered bore. A standard AN tapered pin is inserted through the bushing locking it in to the fittings that mount the stabilizers. There are thin walled SS bushings in each of the aluminum bores on the fitting. @michaelmartinez1345
@@Scubahoy Interesting, so what chapter of the IPC do those fasteners have their part #'s and associated hardware listed? Which chapter of the AMM, were the minimum faster thickness and length specs. found ? What type of material were the pass-through fittings made of , that were securing those surfaces of the empenage, to the crown section of the fuse? Where were these planes originally manufactured? Do You recall the "standard AN tapered pin" hardware specs on the IPC call-out? What material was the "standard AN tapered pin" made of? Was it Ferrous?
I keep a list of crash causes, and I check them when I get on a plane: 'have you checked the pitot tubes?', 'did the refueller use the volume units on the docket?', etc. Now I can add: have you checked the tail fin bolts are certified genuine parts?
A little correction:
Air Force 1 isn’t a specific aircraft. Any aircraft housing the President automatically becomes Air Force 1
There are several jets specifically designated as Air Force 1. They are specially equipped for security, medical care, as well as comfort. Some of the retired Air Force 1's are on static display at various aviation museums. I toured the one at the Boeing museum in Seattle. They are far from being your typical passenger jet.
Yes there are 4 747 specials I think
@FRLN500 yes there are several designated presidential planes. But whatever plane the Pilot is flying in has the call sign Air Force One at that moment.
If you had a private plane and the President was flying in it with you, your plane would be Air Force One. Not that that would ever happen.
@samuelworkman51 "Tha would never happen" You kind of negated your point. I get what you are trying to say but I think you also realize it doesn't exactly matter here. They are referring to The few planes specifically set aside for the President.
@@samuelworkman51To be honest with you Executive One is the Call Sign for any Civilian Aircraft that the President is onboard.
I'm at 20 minutes and since the beginning I've been thinking that the F16 had something to do with the crash. Maybe it was supersonic and blasted the convair with shockwaves or something. That hasn't been mentioned yet so I'm still in suspense..
I’m at 10 minutes but I immediately thought they got in his jet wash bc I guess I’ve watched top gun too much!
These investigators are geniuses.
Love the investigators in this piece. I am always skeptical when the FAA gets convictions to pass the buck. The FAA spokesperson said they found off market parts that represented 39% of their own inventory, but I bet they refused to indict one of their own. CYA
This is heartbreaking and never should have happened ‼️ Bless all those people on that flight.
They "won" a lottery to be on the plane. A real tradegy.
@@crawford1083 Bet the people who lost were no longer jealous they weren't going lol
Amazing work. Horrifying to think how widespread that was...
Is* it's still an ongoing war.
Do you suppose the airline reimbursed the widows of the pilots who had to pay the catering fees out of pocket to get their flight released?
I doubt it.
I can’t believe only 3 bolts were holding that tail assembeley.
Umm… three weak bolts and one good bolt were holding the tail. Three bolts were holding the APU in place, the 4th having broken apart some time ago.
6 million moving parts on a 747. To think we get onto these planes and know we are relying on humans to reliably build and maintain these massive aluminum bucket of bolts is kind of insane. Definitely a leap of faith.
These pilots were so dedicated to ensuring their passengers got to where they were going. They went to great lengths to ensure that plane took off for them and (whether they meant to or not) protect the airline’s reputation. They are exactly the kind of employees any company would want. Perhaps less caring employees would have let the flight be grounded and saved everyone’s life. What a terrible, ironic dichotomy.
ETA: there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about the point I’m making here. This isn’t about blaming the pilots. It’s simply pointing out the *irony* that they were so dedicated and there were points that if they hadn’t been, the flight might not have taken off and the lives would have been saved.
That’s not blaming the pilots. They did nothing wrong. They couldn’t have known they were flying a doomed plane. How many crash investigations have you seen where pilot performance WAS and issue? How many times have you seen good pilots go this far out of their way to get their passengers where they’re going? It’s tragic irony but irony nonetheless. It’s an observation and nothing more.
Blaming them is absolutely ridiculous, normally the APU being run in flight is perfectly safe if unorthodox. The airline and system failed THEM
@@Pbairsoftman I didn’t get that they were blamed by anyone. Not sure what you mean.
@@pensivelyrebellingmaybe they thought the post was sarcasm... butnagree with you.
@pensivelyrebelling , To a point, yes... That makes good sense... But to what extent should the aircraft be allowed to continue to fly, in that condition?
I remember working at a major U.S. airline, and other aircraft maintenance facilities , where policies were determined for each aircraft type, known as the MEL and CDL lists... They are still probably being used to this day... The M.E.L. are the Minimum Equipment Lists... The C.D.L. are the Configuration Deviation Lists... They gave the pilots a basic guideline of what IS, and IS NOT acceptable for safe flight... The Mechanics (Technicians) who assigned those inoperative systems a deferment to temporarily operate in this manner had to make an aircraft logbook entry and put a deferment tag (placard) on the circuit breaker /control device of the affected system. The technician also had to generate a notice on the deferment on that aircraft in the digital data records at the maintenance facility... Deferments Have to be authorised by the AMM (Aircraft Maintenance Manual) and the number of flights / time the deferment could be applied before the aircraft would be grounded .. Basically, a deferment is aka a 'band aid' temporary solution , to get that plane to safely reach it's next destination...
@@michaelmartinez1345 I don’t disagree. I was pointing out the irony of the dedication of these pilots meaning everyone died. A policy discussion about when an aircraft should be allowed to fly is obviously necessary. The pilots did nothing wrong, even if policies need to be put in place to better protect everyone in planes. To me, this has a tangential relationship to the point I made. There are many cases where aircraft have gone down due to pilot error and poor performance. This is not one of those cases and that’s part of the irony.
This series is the very best!!!! I admire seeing how regular people who have excellent work ethics use them so well. I wish I could thank each and every one of them!!!!
1:19 pilot says “Just one more of these boring acting stints and I’ll retire”.
The captain’s eyes were screaming it anyway.
How was dinner? [quietly: god, these lines suck]
Was the F16 pilot testimony of a thousand feet altitude separation verified and what was the timing between the two planes passing each other and the Convair losing control? No wake turbulence was mentioned as a possible scenario, only a sonic boom shockwave which was dismissed as the cause. Could the pilots have applied full rudder as corrective action when encountering wake/vortex turbulence and in effect placed the straw that broke the camel's back.
Does it matter? It's only a 45 minute video. Go read the report to find out what convinced them to dismiss all other factors.
Damn good investigation but according to the comments I've seen there are still questions and problems out there. If there are still bogus parts I would hope mechanics and others would make the FAA aware of them. I imagine they won't go lightly if verified.
@dh88k that's a very good question. I'd like to know that answer myself.
@dh88k Back when that event took place, the minimum vertical separation was less than it is now... The last time that I heard, the RVSM of all airspace is 2,000'.
I'm thinking that possible transonic / supersonic shock waves would be far more reaching than wake/vortex turbulance, particularly at those extreme closing speeds... That could have snapped a few of those cheap bolts holding that vert. stab onto the empinage base...
That is a good observation, and a possible assessment You made, of what could have finally caused those base bolts , securing the vertical stab to the fuselage empenage area, to snap...
What a terrifying ride for everybody aboard ,all the way to the ocean. God save their souls...
Wake turbulence from an F16 would be minimal
I love how reading the comments gives you a clue as to what happened…
I know nothing about planes. Never been on one. Many things seemed to have led up to this but from what I understand (very well could be wrong) is the bolts on the tail fin 3-4 have not been replaced. The military jet got very close and that F16 could have disturbed the wind path and put force on the tail wing causing tail bolts snap. Bad parts, weak parts. If those bolts where what they where suppose to be, it would have turned out different.
i just realized... a lot of the video/audio narrative clips are from other videos from the Mayday series, a lot of clips in this episode, was in the last episode i watched just before watching this episode
7:55 "...the mysterious downing of a PASSENGER JET over the north sea..." I don't think so!
The turbine engines that power the propellers function identically to a jet engine. Still, you wouldn't call such an aircraft a jet.
The APU is also a turbine.
But are they still refitting old planes that should no longer be flying, let alone converting them into overpowered frames?
I didn't even know they could replace a piston engine with a turboprop. Imagine the cost involved!
The amount an airline pays out in lawsuits when a disaster happens probably doesn't come close to the amount of money saved from using cheaper, unapproved mechanical part. It's amazing to me how they can put a plane back together after a crash piece by piece.l
You know you're the $hit when they come get you out of retirement to do something.
May all the victims rest in peace. At least they didn't die in vain, because of this crash the inspection led to finding bogus dealers and parts, saving hundreds of lives.
I have another theory. Instead of the vibration causing the tail to fall off, it was a sudden jam either one direction or the other super hard during mid flight 😮 this would be because the copilot was looking up at the F-16 and swallowed his toothpick 😮😮 Imagine the horror as he jammed the floor rudder either one way or the other. The crappy bolts couldn't handle that kind of pressure in mid flight 😮 So imagine that Captain caught off guard as his friend grabs his own throat and pushes on the floor 😮 🤔 just thinking... Maybe
I’m amazed they seem to find almost all of aircraft’s that get into trouble. It’s admirable how committed the team involved in an investigation. Right down to the people finding parts and pieces. I know flight crews have recurrent training yearly. I truly hope they are doing the same for the mechanics. It’s normally done to combat complacency that must be part of the reason for these horrible mechanically related decisions made many times on this aircraft. Everything done mechanically an aircraft are recorded cradle to grave. Imagine being a mechanic knowing your work was part of the reason lives were lost. Imagine knowing the company you work cuts corners on parts and someday these parts could be why people have died.
What "horrible mechanically related decisions made many times on this aircraft?" Watch the video again, without prejudice this time.
If the CVR had nothing on it after the flight took off, how did the airline know the Norwegian F-16 had passed by. In the investigation they don't mention except for an unidentified object they saw on a military radar. I too like this channel and their casting is perfect, the actors and the real persons look almost similar.
Its crazy that the tail of a plane is only held by 4 bolts.
So much for redundancy for safety!
I do not think only 4 bolts is crazy, but crazy is, that mechanic in Kelowna did’t change them all regardless of the cost! How much money has been spent on this investigation, insurance pay out, funerals and everything else…?
That is so creepy that businesses would buy bogus parts that get used by the airline industry, literally an accident waiting to happen. I realize these parts must be held to strict specifications because of the needs of aircraft.
You mean businesses would SELL bogus parts…
7:58 “passenger jet?” That thing has props.
A screw up in the script. They do call it a turbo prop everywhere else.
What a wrenching story; those folks really got screwed. Cheers!
The main problem is human nature. Managers are under pressure to reduce costs- in many cases, their jobs depend on it. If they are offered a chance to procure cheaper parts, they might not look too closely at the source.
Thank you MayDay for new vids. Great work 🔥
Its a repost. Good cautionary story about "almost good enough" parts, though.
Those two planes were Way Too Close. There should be at least 1k of separation. Getting caught in a wake of an F 16 is not good. The larger plane has a stronger wake than the smaller plane.
Edit: 5k to 10k separation
You think the F-16 is larger than the Convair?
How have I seen this video, 6 times, on the same channel, before today??
I guess it has also meant that manufacturers have been able to charge outrageous prices for genuine parts. So not entirely a win win situation. Though, sometimes for instance car engine bolts are tightened till they have just started to yield in which case they should not be used again. So using unknown origin bolts would be particularly risky.
I’ve been watching a lot of these videos. I’m on the side that nothing that has to do with electrical power, fuel, engines and controls should all be functioning. This will force Airlines to be more diligent in assuring the planes are airworthy.
sadly they have recently had anotehr parts scandal
@lawrencenay8671 , Several Airlines DO have lists of critical items for safe flight... Basically, the RII list (Required Inspection Item list) , lines-up the most important things that need to be checked with another set of trained eyes and properly signed-off before that plane goes back up for another flight... Excellent observation Amigo!!!
Why? The failed generator was not the cause of this accident. Applying random "solutions" that don't fix a problem is not intelligent and may even cause harm.
The airplane was not unairworthy because it was dispatched with the APU running to compensate for the inoperative engine-driven generator. You made that up.
You do a good job of getting to the truth, thank you.
There was a similar Naval exercise going on in the sector adjacent to TWA Flight 800, which exploded in the 80s and crashed into the sea. Hundreds of people are on record as claiming they saw an arc of light heading from the sea to the plane
This video suggests that bogus counterfeit parts are history; they are not. Just this past year the US AirForce grounded its stratoliner tankers over vertical stabilizers with bogus parts. As long as there are unscrupulous people in supply chains, they will be bought. Over my 50 year engineering career I've seen them in every commercial power application - nuclear, fossil and combined cycle. Rigeur and dealing only with dealers of integrity prevents them from being installed. Virtually all purveyors I've seen have never been taken to task.
"Conspiracy" and "cover up" in the title are incredibly misleading, neither of those were a factor in the manner people would think of those terms, and I have no doubt those terms were not used for the original TV show.
"Illegal", "fake parts" etc would be much more valid.
Many of the aircraft flying for smaller less well known airlines , have had a chequered career. Thousands of take offs and landings through short haul flights puts an enormous strain upon airframes .
I watched this show when it was voiced by a Canadian. That show wasn’t sensationalised. It had just the right balance of informing what happened in crashes told with a voice carrying compassion and respect for the passengers who died. Just my opinion, but I think the original person’s voice did a much better job than this voice.
The only thing wrong with the plane is the people who service them. Trouble is people pay with their lives for companies cutting corners.
Excellent information and narration. Condolences to the families of the deceased and the loved ones...
Terrible situation. God bless these people.
41:46 That animation is harrowing. I hope none of the passengers were conscious when the plane ripped apart like that. Falling from an airplane from thousands of feet up in the air while knowing I’m about to die is my greatest fear.
*sigh* remember the good old days when we could take uploads at their word when they claimed to be new?
Imagine being a Norwegian at that time and finding that one of your country's major companies needs to hire a whole new set of staff.
If only they had no cash to pay for the food
The narrative is wrong, it states the Flight was flying over the North Sea , they were flying over the Skagerrak.
Crazy conspiracy. The hotel deals and trip planning features on mighty travels premium would come in handy for a rediscovery mission.
I am thinking of putting a Porsche Turbo twin-turbocharged engine in my 60's Pinto...
It'll work fine. You probably won't.
Interesting and fascinating story. I listen to the entire video
Exceptionally well done thank you
Another amazing video and recap!
"Use the APU to power the left side AC systems!" The MEL tells you the minimum equipment required for a reason, so you don't open yourself up for bullsh!t like this accident!
I don’t like the crashes ending with sadness and people death , I like only the episodes with happy ending and people survived
15:30 - amusing that they used piston-engine sounds for this aircraft. No biggie of course, but amusing nevertheless.
24:55 - Ah, fixed it later.
Tail had been vibrating for months yet no one checked?!
the air line was having money problems
They checked it at the last refit, but it gradually came back in the last 16 flights
I had not heard about this crash before, glad I’ve learned about it now. My thoughts go to the victims and their families.
My question is really why is said bolt selling for $200. Likely because it is for an aircraft. Same part, same Rockwell hardness spec, diameter, thread pitch, etc. and sold to industrial sector it might sell for $45.
I understand the parts made for aircraft might fly people, but the same spec industrial parts might actually protect much more lives than an aircraft so that argument is countered some.
It reminds me of the same argument of why prescriptions are more expensive in some places (like America) than they are in others when they cost the same to manufacture. I get liability insurance is a big cost and is a factor in both examples.
TERRAIN! PULL UP!! would be a great alarm clock setting
Well, it'll sure wake you up!
How about "Altitude! Altitude!" ?
Or a ringtone 😂😂😂
I love how they call the back bone workers of their company "normal" 😂
Profits before people. Obviously.
fantastic investigative work!
No way the airline would try to cover this up, someone's head would roll for sure. Can't wait to find out what really happened.
The title is clickbait. There was no conspiracy. Just people selling fake parts and buyers getting duped.
Well the airline was gone because of this crash. This crash killed its owner and they were losing their country's blessing to fly anyway.
Great investigation, very impressive determination
our APUs were always external to the airplane
That map of Europe at 16:25... oh my...
@@ondrejkratochvil4589 what about it?
@@ondrejkratochvil4589 Good catch! :-) most will not notice unless they know the geography of Northern Europe.
All the plans that size I've travelled never have that much room between passengers 😅
Normally the plebs don’t get to name ships. But we made a 1 time exception for our best pleb. Haha
There are many things that can be learned from an investigation such as this one. But amidst all the facts presented, there is one observation that stands out in my mind.
Near the end of the video, a former executive of the Department of Transportation remarks that there are many regulations that govern the manufacture of parts/components of airplanes, regulations that did not exist in the 1970s and 1980s.
If you look at the wave of deregulations initiated by the Reagan Administration and carried on throughout the recent history of the Republican Party, you'll see a pattern of "cutting the safety net" in order to please the many multinationals that donate so heavily to the GOP. And today, louder than ever, Republicans continue to demand cuts in the regulations that help keep us safe.
I try not to ponder those demands as I fly.
Amazing forensics!
Vibration??? Generator inop??? UH-AH. You don't fly with those kind of problems.