What I find most unbelievable is the total lack of airmanship displayed by the captain! No idea of airspeed, no idea of engine performance, clearly oblivious to what his instruments were telling him and if these serious mistakes weren’t enough then takes totally inappropriate action to recover from an imminent stall. Unbelievable!
Right?!?! How is the FO the only one to figure out they were in a stall? Wasn’t the violently shaking stick in his hands a pretty good clue?! I’ve never flown a plane and I found myself screaming “push the nose down” at the tv. 🤦🏻♂️
I think we need to talk about the fact that the flight crew weren't being paid enough and had to resort to getting second jobs... That on its own is kind of a red flag.
I would think that that would be the norm now with inflation as high as it is. To stay competitive it seems like the individual airlines would have no choice. They are always cutting corners to reduce fares & eliminate any amenities that might push the cost up. No more free Beer Nuts etc - nowadays bring them from home if you want them.😢😅
The scariest feeling I can imagine is knowing you’re about to die but have it be sudden and with little to no warning. Being old and dying on your death bed is one thing but for it to be sudden has to be frightening and heartbreaking. May everyone lost rest in peace.
I would consider them to be survivors. Out of pure chance they did not perish, but all of the people who were on the plane they were supposed to be on did. If you look up survivors guilt, some of the examples listed include Waylon Jennings giving up his seat on Buddy Holly’s ill fated plane and a Liverpool fan who gave his football ticket to a friend who went on to die at the match. Basically, you “survive” but feel guilty that someone else died. I don’t think you need to have physically been in the accident or scenario of death in order to feel responsible for it. (Although that is also a valid scenario)
@@superpotterfan7435 Thank You! You saved me the trouble of researching it myself because I felt pretty confident that it was certainly a possibility for them.
Usually when I watch these, I don't have an idea what happened until later in the episode. This one was pretty obvious early on, even during the preview. When the crew radios that their engines were flamed out, you can actually hear the engines very loudly in the recording. And even though the recording is a reenactment, they usually seem to keep it true to form of the original CVR. So how can it be an engine flameout when you still hear them going? It was also clear from early on, almost from takeoff, that the first officer knew what he was doing way more than the captain did. At the end they were talking about how the first officer didn't speak up, but he did, imho. He told the captain to turn the anti-ice back on, he told the captain exactly what was happening as they fell, and the captain didn't listen to him. They'd likely have all lived if he listened to the pilot who knew better, even though he was younger. It's so sad thinking what all the people on that plane went through in those last 90 seconds.
Not sure if you complain that they spoiled the ending or happy they gave you enough clues to get it right with your experience. But i think they are not commenting his action to speak up, but to take control when the Captain didnt do his job. He had a clear 1-2 minutes to take control and push nose down. A human brain under stress and confusion can cause inability to take in new information. So taking over was the only way to do when he didnt respond after getting told its a stall, which means, out the nose down and engines to max right now
Again pulling back on the stick? What is with that trend for the pilots to pull back on their sticks ? At least 5 accidents happened when the pilots did that.
I know right, I could undertstand them trying to pull back if they were a hundred feet off the ground and sheer panic, but pulling back on the stick at 29,000 feet all the way to the ground is just stupidity and lack of training
I lost count of how many aerodynamic stalls occurred in civil aviation where the pilots didn't do the right thing which is to push the nose down And if you think this accident was caused by a failing airline, untrained pilots in a 3rd world country ,think again, Air France flight 447 went down in almost similar circumstances, by pullin that dammed stick back during a stall...
they stalled and had improper readings from both sides due to icing, then complicated by the fact that both pilots were fighting the controls in an airbus that uses a computer to manage inputs.
Training is a big part of that. Developing a sense of the energy state and how planes fly intiutively takes time and effort. The AF447 relief pilots went from flight school to flying fully automated jets with only a few dozen hours in a small plane where control is completely manual. Training was a factor in this tragedy too as an airline in financial distress did not place pilot training anywhere near the top of their budget concerns. Modern airmanship needs to include CRM and also upset recovery, what to do when the flight is in an abnormal state.
447 was a perfect example of why pilots should be trained how to fly rather than how to turn on the autopilot. Those clowns had no idea what they were doing, they were so reliant on the Airbus’ automation to get them where they were going. It was devastating to watch the Captain, I felt so bad for him. As soon as he scanned the cockpit and acclimated himself he knew what was wrong but the pilot flying still couldn’t comprehend it even as they plunged into the ocean.
This was very educational. I pound my daughter about situational awareness. She is not in airlines, she's my daughter and needs to be aware, EVERYWHERE Thanks
What really bothers me about flying is what we, as passengers, don't know about the airline's financial situation, it's maintenance practices and the other aspects which can determine whether or not we get to our destination safely or whether or not we may be killed. It's really hard to put total trust in them. I choose to drive when I can. At least I feel more in charge of my own vehicle and my destiny
In an emergency, it takes time for Spanish pilots to finish praying to all their patron saints and start reacting. I would rather fly Indian air. All they say is holy cow and react.
A tired and panicked pilot. The frontal cortex, with all the information needed to fix the problem, is shutoff and the fear part of the brain sees a bear to fight. That part of the brain is saying FIGHTFIGHTFIGHTDONTTHINKFIGHT!!! Our brains were evolved to live in the wild and fight monsters and strangers to the death. We are barely evolved to live in units with 100-120 people called villages. It's like running the most complex computer systems on top of MS-DOS and when our brain's system fails it reverts to its primitive programming.
Meanwhile the FO just sits in his seat, watching the captain crash the plane. Does not shout to put the nose down, does not attempt to do so himself. Both pilots are incompetent.
Yes, but that is counter-intuitive; we're falling, so let's dive. It's the reason you have to train for things, so that when bad things happen, you don't revert to natural instincts, but your training.
The human brain is a curious thing you could spend your entire career training for Such an event but if god forbid something actually happens all logic goes out the window
A story of incompetence - aviate, navigate, communicate. What can ATC do? The first officer was a wimp, he should have taken control and reacted to the stick shaker when he realized there was a stall.
I traveled to Caracas from NYC dozens of times in the 1980’s. Avensa and Viasa were the two Venezuelan carriers. One Viasa pilot couldn’t figure out why his planes would often handle roughly, and he used more fuel than he should have. One day, with the plane fully loaded, passengers aboard and ready to depart, he ordered everyone off the plane and a reweighing of the baggage. Baggage was twice as heavy as listed in his manifest/preflight info. Turns out the girls at the check-in counters were taking bribes and not charging passengers for their overweight luggage. Pilot reported it, and he was fired. This is how things work in Venezuela!
@@yamato6114 It’s basically the same thing as shown in this video: Through either corruption or incompetence, airlines from certain countries simply AREN’T safe. It’s not racism or xenophobia. It’s simply fact.
Not an expert here, but when you get stick shaker at 31000 ft, rule of thump is to put the nose down to pick up speed, then pull up and level off the plane, you still have plenty of altitude.. Passenger planes with rear engines have their center of mass moved toward the back, that makes the plane tend to pitch up specially when overloaded.
has less to do with speed than the angle of attack of the relative air flowing over the wings. IMO the plane was already severly iced up when the capt asked for the deice to be turned off.... DUH, its -14 outside, we already have ice and were turning it off? Good luck with that.
@@aceofwaters It wasn't iced up. If it had been they would have stalled much sooner. There was only a light ice buildup when FO asked for deicing to be reengaged and the plane had a few minutes to get heat to the wings before the airspeed dropped.
@@aceofwaters- Pay attention, dude. at 26:37, you can watch the investigators saying that ice wasn't formed because the de-icing was on, rerouting part of the engine exhaust into the wings, causing the heavy plane to slow down. In this type of aircraft with engine mounted on the back, it has a tendency to pitch up specially;y when overloaded.
I frequently give them a pass on those mistakes. Especially early on they used the same mock up aircraft cabin interior with 3 x 3 seating for planes that would be 2 x 3 or 2 x 2 or widebody.
I can't imagine what those people went through in the last moments of their lives which was 3 minutes. Mothers are holding their kids and making sure they are safe and trying to keep them calm as much as they could.
Yep, happened with JAL123... It's believed there were survivors at first but because the Japanese govt refused help from foreigners, they ended up perishing too. 🤦♀
I should be a pilot. After watching enough of these videos, even I know to push the nose down to gain speed and recover from a stall. When your nose is high, it increases drag and slows your speed. You definitely don't want to pull the nose up.
Honestly it’s sad how often the first officer correctly identifies what they actually need to do, but the fear of punishment from their superiors keeps them from doing so.
I would never ever fly on a Venezuelan airline they have some of the worst records and their plane is not updated on maintenance and their pilots is not trained fully.
As a Venezuelan, I flew in many airlines in the country and you’re right, most of them are in a bad condition, they use planes from the 80s or 90s, but one exception is Rutaca Airlines, right now is a safe and reliable airline to fly over Venezuela, this airline despite using 737-200 or 300 and MD-80, they are very clean, comfortable and well maintained.
@@emmettturner9452 that is out of the question, I know that West Caribbean was a Colombian airliner but the pilots of this airline were not prepared for this situation because West Caribbean’s pilots training was very poor and the airline didn’t pay many pilots and crew, among them was captain Ospina.
I know very little about flying, but I know from watching these videos that if the stick starts shaking you push the thing forward to gain air speed and keep from stalling.
I'm getting worried at the amount of professional pilots who should know better but still reflexively pull up the nose during a stall.. It's deeply unsettling... This said, hearing that this poor captain had to work besides his main job, it explains a lot.
The amount of panic these captains faced had to have been paralyzing. In that stall from that altitude they had PLENTY of time to recover. All one of them had to do was push the nose over and gain some airspeed and immediately their problem is solved. But it’s never that simple when panic sets in and you start freaking out and thinking you’re about to die. So instead of easily recovering from this stall, they instead did the opposite of what they needed to do and thus quite literally fell from the sky like a leaf falling from a tree. Falling almost straight down belly first. It’s so sad because a lot of these accidents are caused by something the pilots might not be able to fix. Maybe a boot breaks in the elevator like in Alaska airlines flight that crashed into pacific or maybe hydraulics fail after some malfunction like the Sioux City accident in those cases the planes were basically unfliable but in this case it was such a simple fix and instead we have all these lives lost. So so sad
"Rolled back" isn't a common term, to my knowledge, at least in the US. From the context in which it is used here, it seems it means something like the engine power was decreased or shut down.I also think pushing the yoke forward would have nosed the plane down---OR am I misunderstanding these things. Any clarification would be really appreciated. How did they know to only add about 7,000 pounds of weight to the overall weight of the plane? That's only three and a half tons. Seems this was a pretty conservative estimate for re-calculating the possible cause or not of the disaster. Very interesting, complex series of events/actions in a rapidly changing circumstances. Fascinating how the technicians and investigators pieced this together.
As an American, I feel blessed and grateful to live in the birthplace of motor vehicles and aviation. The tropical airlines have absolutely horrifying practices. A 21-yr-old copilot, airline can't afford the fuel, can't afford to pay their pilots, and training is barely enough to keep planes in the air. When the autopilot turns off, and things get real, you're dead. It's the same pattern over and over. Imagine you are from a country where you have no choice but to use these airlines. Absolute nightmare. Thank you God/Universe that I was so lucky. Because most are not. Stay safe.
Flight level 330 should not have been too high for an MD92. Engine anti ice was off? This may be a clue. Halfway through the video, it will be revealed?
I’m not a pilot and even I know the stick shaking means that there’s an imminent stall that’s about to happen, yet the pilot thought the engines flamed out. What….
It's more than likely the configuration of those DC-9s, MD 8x etc and other T-tailed aircrafts don't help in this situation because those airframes are prone to *deep stall* as the 2014 Air Algérie flight 5017 crash in the desert showed. Too much angle with the nose up, and not only the engines lack air to work properly, but also the wings mask aerodynamically the stabilizer which prevents the pilots from controlling the attitude of the aircraft. In this case the only maneuver that can save the flight is to increase bank angle on one side to drag the nose down.
One of the first things that you learn as a pilot is that if you get a stall warning, you push the nose down. That is why the plane stalled and crashed. Even with the previous actions, a competent crew would have prevented the accident. Yes, even an incompetent crew might be able to fly in perfect conditions, but that is not an excuse.
Q: how do you stall at perfectly level flight at 31000? A: the relative air over the wing is comprised due to the already built up ice, disrupting the airflow. Q: why did that captain ask to turn off the de-ice? A. Hes more concerned with gain power from turning it off and climbing, than the fact its -14 outside with already likely built up ice. The engines were NOT flamed out. Power was reduced by the autothrottle or auto mach when the speed when up as the plane was gaining a bit of speed when descending. Either that OR they got the engines back going during the descent.
At (too) high angle of attack ice may form at the underside of the wings behind the heated leading edge. If that happens a stall will be much more likely. As every pilot knows the only action to effect recovery will be pushing the control column forward. This crew were underpaid, insufficiently trained and possibly fatigued. Poor souls
Why does the video show the nose of a 757 in the preflight together with the landing of a 757. They were flying a MD-82, not a 757. Poor video editing and creators.
It sounds like his “second jobs” was really his “only job”. Having not been paid for 6 mos flying is now a hobby. I can’t believe any of the crew even bothered showing up.
imagine being a pilot and not getting paid for SIX MONTHS. That alone is a recipe for disaster, but that's what you can expect from a 3rd world country.
sorry, im taking controls regardless if he is doing it or not. IE im just going to turn the deicing back on OR would have just said 'negative' when he asked for it originally. The OAT was clearly reading -14 when there flying right at precept. Thats a negative capt.
Oops, show is showing fan blades which were not damaged. This means that the engines were not working or turning at impact. COMEON guys. How coujd you make a simple mistake. Do you not think your viewers were not paying attention??
It's obvious, the crash was the result of the captain working those bartending shifts. I think that bar should be investigated......that's where it all starts.
I've said it once and I'll say again... pilots need to learn how to glide before ever getting into a engine-powered plane. PS> Never fly an MD-80. They're awful.
2 hours past schedule, overbooked, understaffed, poor weather, and after midnight??? NOPE. I'll catch a flight tomorrow morning, thanks!
Ain’t that the truth
Don’t forget no proper radar or tracking.
@@kovy689 true
Lol word!❤😂🎉
And staff,w criminals records 😮
What I find most unbelievable is the total lack of airmanship displayed by the captain! No idea of airspeed, no idea of engine performance, clearly oblivious to what his instruments were telling him and if these serious mistakes weren’t enough then takes totally inappropriate action to recover from an imminent stall. Unbelievable!
Yeah how he got his wings is beyond me
@@wez123123123he probably found them in a fruit loops box. 😂
Right?!?! How is the FO the only one to figure out they were in a stall? Wasn’t the violently shaking stick in his hands a pretty good clue?! I’ve never flown a plane and I found myself screaming “push the nose down” at the tv. 🤦🏻♂️
Pilot-"The engines aren't responding!"
Co-pilot-"Ok I'm gonna go use the restroom." 😑
Not aren't responding, but "I can't accelerate."
Yeah the FO was a total joke 😂
@@wez123123123 A "total joke" who recognized they were stalling at least
if I knew the plane was in danger of crashing I'd have to use the restroom too
@@adotintheshark4848 yeah you don’t know how far the nearest restroom will be in the afterlife.
I think we need to talk about the fact that the flight crew weren't being paid enough and had to resort to getting second jobs... That on its own is kind of a red flag.
I would think that that would be the norm now with inflation as high as it is. To stay competitive it seems like the individual airlines would have no choice. They are always cutting corners to reduce fares & eliminate any amenities that might push the cost up. No more free Beer Nuts etc - nowadays bring them from home if you want them.😢😅
I generally prefer that my pilot moonlights as a bartender and is not paid for 6 months.
Yeah that sounds crazy to me, I couldn’t imagine not being paid for a even a month, nonetheless 6!?? Why even stay at that point?
@@PipingHotFireprobably to log more flight time to get a better job
The scariest feeling I can imagine is knowing you’re about to die but have it be sudden and with little to no warning. Being old and dying on your death bed is one thing but for it to be sudden has to be frightening and heartbreaking. May everyone lost rest in peace.
Three minutes is a long time to be terrified.
Those flight attendants. Obviously wasn't their time.
6 months without getting paid and they can’t afford fuel.it’s time to look for another job!
Past X
FOR REAL!!
I know those 2 flight attendants that were left behind probably kissed the ground!!
They probably have horrible survivor's guilt.
👋
@@spinkid2000 that's likely, but also would you consider them "survivors" per se?
I would consider them to be survivors. Out of pure chance they did not perish, but all of the people who were on the plane they were supposed to be on did. If you look up survivors guilt, some of the examples listed include Waylon Jennings giving up his seat on Buddy Holly’s ill fated plane and a Liverpool fan who gave his football ticket to a friend who went on to die at the match. Basically, you “survive” but feel guilty that someone else died. I don’t think you need to have physically been in the accident or scenario of death in order to feel responsible for it. (Although that is also a valid scenario)
@@superpotterfan7435 Thank You! You saved me the trouble of researching it myself because I felt pretty confident that it was certainly a possibility for them.
Usually when I watch these, I don't have an idea what happened until later in the episode. This one was pretty obvious early on, even during the preview. When the crew radios that their engines were flamed out, you can actually hear the engines very loudly in the recording. And even though the recording is a reenactment, they usually seem to keep it true to form of the original CVR. So how can it be an engine flameout when you still hear them going? It was also clear from early on, almost from takeoff, that the first officer knew what he was doing way more than the captain did. At the end they were talking about how the first officer didn't speak up, but he did, imho. He told the captain to turn the anti-ice back on, he told the captain exactly what was happening as they fell, and the captain didn't listen to him. They'd likely have all lived if he listened to the pilot who knew better, even though he was younger. It's so sad thinking what all the people on that plane went through in those last 90 seconds.
Not sure if you complain that they spoiled the ending or happy they gave you enough clues to get it right with your experience. But i think they are not commenting his action to speak up, but to take control when the Captain didnt do his job. He had a clear 1-2 minutes to take control and push nose down. A human brain under stress and confusion can cause inability to take in new information. So taking over was the only way to do when he didnt respond after getting told its a stall, which means, out the nose down and engines to max right now
I’m not afraid of flying. I’m afraid of what happens when you suddenly STOP flying.
Ayuk ayuk ayuk
Right. Falling doesn't hurt at all; it's just that sudden stop at the end.
2:14 If you got dragged off this flight because it was overbooked, you would have been lucky.
Again pulling back on the stick?
What is with that trend for the pilots to pull back on their sticks ?
At least 5 accidents happened when the pilots did that.
Extremely tired & let panic set in.
@@nickywilliams8540 yeah,such a tragedy
It does seem to be a frequent cause, and it is such a basic principle. Crew Resource Management is a factor here, too.
Air france 447 Air Asia 8501
Colgan Air 3407
I know right, I could undertstand them trying to pull back if they were a hundred feet off the ground and sheer panic, but pulling back on the stick at 29,000 feet all the way to the ground is just stupidity and lack of training
I lost count of how many aerodynamic stalls occurred in civil aviation where the pilots didn't do the right thing which is to push the nose down
And if you think this accident was caused by a failing airline, untrained pilots in a 3rd world country ,think again, Air France flight 447 went down in almost similar circumstances, by pullin that dammed stick back during a stall...
they stalled and had improper readings from both sides due to icing, then complicated by the fact that both pilots were fighting the controls in an airbus that uses a computer to manage inputs.
Training is a big part of that. Developing a sense of the energy state and how planes fly intiutively takes time and effort. The AF447 relief pilots went from flight school to flying fully automated jets with only a few dozen hours in a small plane where control is completely manual.
Training was a factor in this tragedy too as an airline in financial distress did not place pilot training anywhere near the top of their budget concerns. Modern airmanship needs to include CRM and also upset recovery, what to do when the flight is in an abnormal state.
@@fredrit323
Also, it is possible that it was an updraught that initiated 447's stall as well.
447 was a perfect example of why pilots should be trained how to fly rather than how to turn on the autopilot. Those clowns had no idea what they were doing, they were so reliant on the Airbus’ automation to get them where they were going.
It was devastating to watch the Captain, I felt so bad for him. As soon as he scanned the cockpit and acclimated himself he knew what was wrong but the pilot flying still couldn’t comprehend it even as they plunged into the ocean.
This was very educational. I pound my daughter about situational awareness. She is not in airlines, she's my daughter and needs to be aware, EVERYWHERE Thanks
I pound my daughter… phrasing is huge in the English language.
What really bothers me about flying is what we, as passengers, don't know about the airline's financial situation, it's maintenance practices and the other aspects which can determine whether or not we get to our destination safely or whether or not we may be killed. It's really hard to put total trust in them. I choose to drive when I can. At least I feel more in charge of my own vehicle and my destiny
Was I the only one who was yelling "NOSE DOWN! POINT THE NOSE DOWN!" "GET OFF THE RADIO, PUT THE MAP AWAY, NOSE DOWN!"!!
No you weren't 😂
I'm not a pilot, but I was gobsmacked by the response of the pilots. Airspeed, artificial horizon, altimeter. Everything else is secondary.
I was too. I’ve watched a lot of Mayday’s. 😉
Nope...I was yelling the same thing 😢
@@lloydsumpter7735Would that include a cup of coffee. 😮
If the captain thought the engines flamed out, why would he pull back on the stick?
Stall or flameout, pulling back on the stick is the wrong move.
He was unfit to fly, Panama is dodgy in every area
Can you imagine? Those poor people!
The similarities between this and Air France flight 447 is worrying.
They should start teaching pilots to push the column forward to start stall recovery. ...
Oh, wait....
😂😂😂 ya think omg ffs
In an emergency, it takes time for Spanish pilots to finish praying to all their patron saints and start reacting. I would rather fly Indian air. All they say is holy cow and react.
2 flight attendants feel horrible and wonderful... poor air traffic controller picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue..
@@hood_TheJoker we know that quote from Qantas Flight of sullivan
Lloyd Bridges in AIRPLANE
@@stellakowalski1 😚
....and the wrong week to quit drinking.
@@stellakowalski1 ha ha I m familiar to that movie. And it s true in this situation
What kind of idiot pilot pulls back on the control column during a stall?
A tired and panicked pilot. The frontal cortex, with all the information needed to fix the problem, is shutoff and the fear part of the brain sees a bear to fight. That part of the brain is saying FIGHTFIGHTFIGHTDONTTHINKFIGHT!!! Our brains were evolved to live in the wild and fight monsters and strangers to the death. We are barely evolved to live in units with 100-120 people called villages. It's like running the most complex computer systems on top of MS-DOS and when our brain's system fails it reverts to its primitive programming.
An exhausted one
It has happened in several accidents, actually...
Meanwhile the FO just sits in his seat, watching the captain crash the plane. Does not shout to put the nose down, does not attempt to do so himself.
Both pilots are incompetent.
A bad one
...in a stall, get the nose down...get some airspeed
Yes, but that is counter-intuitive; we're falling, so let's dive. It's the reason you have to train for things, so that when bad things happen, you don't revert to natural instincts, but your training.
You forgot that you need high altitude also 🤣
@@Joe-g4cin this case, they were at 33,000 ft., which is plenty of altitude.
@@cremebrulee4759 I'm not even a pilot, I've just seen enough episodes to know what to do. NOSE DOWN!
The human brain is a curious thing you could spend your entire career training for Such an event but if god forbid something actually happens all logic goes out the window
My uncle said to me that one of his friends of college was among the victims.
Very sorry for his loss.
My mom used to know some kids who became orphans that very night.
😢
@julosx how awful 😢❤
A story of incompetence - aviate, navigate, communicate. What can ATC do? The first officer was a wimp, he should have taken control and reacted to the stick shaker when he realized there was a stall.
Yes the FO should have taken over and saved the plane
I traveled to Caracas from NYC dozens of times in the 1980’s. Avensa and Viasa were the two Venezuelan carriers.
One Viasa pilot couldn’t figure out why his planes would often handle roughly, and he used more fuel than he should have.
One day, with the plane fully loaded, passengers aboard and ready to depart, he ordered everyone off the plane and a reweighing of the baggage. Baggage was twice as heavy as listed in his manifest/preflight info.
Turns out the girls at the check-in counters were taking bribes and not charging passengers for their overweight luggage.
Pilot reported it, and he was fired.
This is how things work in Venezuela!
OMG!!
Jesus Christ
@@yamato6114 It’s basically the same thing as shown in this video:
Through either corruption or incompetence, airlines from certain countries simply AREN’T safe.
It’s not racism or xenophobia. It’s simply fact.
American and Delta used to have MD-80s in the past before they've retired those jets. Although I wish they wouldn't!
I flew on a Delta MD-80 late 2019 before they retired it… I loved those planes!
@@xiayabennett6982I have flown on them myself
@jermainesimmons2944 , yes, Alaska Airlines, used to fly the MD-80's, too. I wish that the, MD-80's, were still around too.
Not an expert here, but when you get stick shaker at 31000 ft, rule of thump is to put the nose down to pick up speed, then pull up and level off the plane, you still have plenty of altitude.. Passenger planes with rear engines have their center of mass moved toward the back, that makes the plane tend to pitch up specially when overloaded.
has less to do with speed than the angle of attack of the relative air flowing over the wings. IMO the plane was already severly iced up when the capt asked for the deice to be turned off.... DUH, its -14 outside, we already have ice and were turning it off? Good luck with that.
@@aceofwaters It wasn't iced up. If it had been they would have stalled much sooner. There was only a light ice buildup when FO asked for deicing to be reengaged and the plane had a few minutes to get heat to the wings before the airspeed dropped.
@@pax6833 cool story bro
@@aceofwaters- Pay attention, dude. at 26:37, you can watch the investigators saying that ice wasn't formed because the de-icing was on, rerouting part of the engine exhaust into the wings, causing the heavy plane to slow down. In this type of aircraft with engine mounted on the back, it has a tendency to pitch up specially;y when overloaded.
It’s pilot error due to exhaustion due to corporate greed
They're lucky 2 flight Attendants
Yea. Really am hoping for new episodes but its nice to be watching these for free
Let's not hope for _new_ episodes though. :)
@@jeschinstadright? But there is that recent Brazil crash and a few others RIP to all.
The idea that if both engines fail the plane falls out of the sky is ludicrous.
2:05 and 2:59, if you look closely, that's the cockpit of a Boeing 757 instead of the MD-82, the aircraft involved in this accident.
I assume they just filmed random aircraft for both scenes. But they using wrong cockpit interior in most episodes is worse.
"Boy, I sure hope someone got fired for that blunder!" - The nerd kid from The Simpsons
I frequently give them a pass on those mistakes. Especially early on they used the same mock up aircraft cabin interior with 3 x 3 seating for planes that would be 2 x 3 or 2 x 2 or widebody.
Thanks. Even if this is a repost. I appreciate it
It isn't a repost
Can Not Fathom The Level of Terror That Consumed The Passengers Mind and Body
can not fathom the way you type lol
@@rihamkarim3644 Lot of People are Jelly of How i Type =(
I can't imagine what those people went through in the last moments of their lives which was 3 minutes. Mothers are holding their kids and making sure they are safe and trying to keep them calm as much as they could.
Doesn't this sound a lot like Air France 447?
Your former Intl. Airport Limo Driver hopes all travelers survive wherever they go! * Cav *
Politics... Often interferes with the efficiency of the systems of operations to it's detriment. Politics... Politics.
Yep, happened with JAL123... It's believed there were survivors at first but because the Japanese govt refused help from foreigners, they ended up perishing too. 🤦♀
I should be a pilot. After watching enough of these videos, even I know to push the nose down to gain speed and recover from a stall. When your nose is high, it increases drag and slows your speed. You definitely don't want to pull the nose up.
IKR?
Honestly it’s sad how often the first officer correctly identifies what they actually need to do, but the fear of punishment from their superiors keeps them from doing so.
I would never ever fly on a Venezuelan airline they have some of the worst records and their plane is not updated on maintenance and their pilots is not trained fully.
Not even Conviasa?
As a Venezuelan, I flew in many airlines in the country and you’re right, most of them are in a bad condition, they use planes from the 80s or 90s, but one exception is Rutaca Airlines, right now is a safe and reliable airline to fly over Venezuela, this airline despite using 737-200 or 300 and MD-80, they are very clean, comfortable and well maintained.
What do you mean “Venezuelan airline?” At 17:49 they laid it all out: “This was a Columbia operator that took off from Panama … overflying Venezuela.”
@@emmettturner9452 Colombian operator*
@@emmettturner9452 that is out of the question, I know that West Caribbean was a Colombian airliner but the pilots of this airline were not prepared for this situation because West Caribbean’s pilots training was very poor and the airline didn’t pay many pilots and crew, among them was captain Ospina.
Didn’t see this, thanks!
I know very little about flying, but I know from watching these videos that if the stick starts shaking you push the thing forward to gain air speed and keep from stalling.
I know air travel is safe but somehow you never hear about these crashes when they happen unless they are local.
Director: i have some financial issue with the project!
cameraman and management employes: *proceed to show a boeing 757 physicaly*
I was looking for this episode for a while jeez
Well, that's one way of ceasing to exist on a temporary planet💔
Rip
I'm getting worried at the amount of professional pilots who should know better but still reflexively pull up the nose during a stall.. It's deeply unsettling... This said, hearing that this poor captain had to work besides his main job, it explains a lot.
The actress who plays Col. Lorllys Ramos is gorgeous 😍
Yay, a unseen episode for me. Rather uncommon because of my addiction. 😮
I think all commercial pilots should have to watch an episode of Mayday every week as part of their training.
my dad has watched every episode ever multiple times, and has read and studied every major and non major commercial jet accident report in history.
@@aceofwaters He sounds like a great pilot, I'd feel safe flying with him.
@@Zyrek1 he just said 'we never filed anything above 410'
A second job as a bartender? As a damn pilot?? 😮
Crazy isn't it?
It’s so unnatural to push the nose down but damn it’s so important in certain circumstances.
Two hours late for the rest of the world is 4 hours early in the Caribbean 😊.
The amount of panic these captains faced had to have been paralyzing. In that stall from that altitude they had PLENTY of time to recover. All one of them had to do was push the nose over and gain some airspeed and immediately their problem is solved. But it’s never that simple when panic sets in and you start freaking out and thinking you’re about to die. So instead of easily recovering from this stall, they instead did the opposite of what they needed to do and thus quite literally fell from the sky like a leaf falling from a tree. Falling almost straight down belly first. It’s so sad because a lot of these accidents are caused by something the pilots might not be able to fix. Maybe a boot breaks in the elevator like in Alaska airlines flight that crashed into pacific or maybe hydraulics fail after some malfunction like the Sioux City accident in those cases the planes were basically unfliable but in this case it was such a simple fix and instead we have all these lives lost. So so sad
"Rolled back" isn't a common term, to my knowledge, at least in the US. From the context in which it is used here, it seems it means something like the engine power was decreased or shut down.I also think pushing the yoke forward would have nosed the plane down---OR am I misunderstanding these things. Any clarification would be really appreciated.
How did they know to only add about 7,000 pounds of weight to the overall weight of the plane? That's only three and a half tons. Seems this was a pretty conservative estimate for re-calculating the possible cause or not of the disaster.
Very interesting, complex series of events/actions in a rapidly changing circumstances. Fascinating how the technicians and investigators pieced this together.
As an American, I feel blessed and grateful to live in the birthplace of motor vehicles and aviation. The tropical airlines have absolutely horrifying practices. A 21-yr-old copilot, airline can't afford the fuel, can't afford to pay their pilots, and training is barely enough to keep planes in the air. When the autopilot turns off, and things get real, you're dead. It's the same pattern over and over. Imagine you are from a country where you have no choice but to use these airlines. Absolute nightmare. Thank you God/Universe that I was so lucky. Because most are not. Stay safe.
America is not the birth place of either. You're brainwashed
The car was born in Germany
Flight level 330 should not have been too high for an MD92.
Engine anti ice was off? This may be a clue. Halfway through the video, it will be revealed?
You can't fly high if you're too heavy, also the plane was an MD-82
I’m not a pilot and even I know the stick shaking means that there’s an imminent stall that’s about to happen, yet the pilot thought the engines flamed out. What….
It's more than likely the configuration of those DC-9s, MD 8x etc and other T-tailed aircrafts don't help in this situation because those airframes are prone to *deep stall* as the 2014 Air Algérie flight 5017 crash in the desert showed. Too much angle with the nose up, and not only the engines lack air to work properly, but also the wings mask aerodynamically the stabilizer which prevents the pilots from controlling the attitude of the aircraft. In this case the only maneuver that can save the flight is to increase bank angle on one side to drag the nose down.
Those 2 flight attendants are so lucky
For what is considered a safe mode of transport, there seems to be no shortage of accident content on social media
Perhaps, but at a given moment around 16 000 planes are in the sky, this accident happenened 2005, and many of the clips are the same.
At 4:04, homeboy talks about a heavy load...lol...
Push forward 😊
As a retired airline captain I simply fail to understand why bright orange objects are called "black"
On glass wind screen data should be projected. Speed. Altitude.
Playing a flight simulator app on my iPhone, even I know to bring the nose down on a stall.
5:50 - Of course, it's customary to play canned baby crying sounds when flying throughs storms... Isn't the rough weather dramatic enough?
Not practical but having auxillery rockets can help a lot in situations like this. No air flow thru the engines needed.
6 months without pay? Who would ever think that wouldn't cause problems? That's the cause of this.
Those 2 flight attendants that had to stay 💀
One of the first things that you learn as a pilot is that if you get a stall warning, you push the nose down. That is why the plane stalled and crashed. Even with the previous actions, a competent crew would have prevented the accident. Yes, even an incompetent crew might be able to fly in perfect conditions, but that is not an excuse.
Q: how do you stall at perfectly level flight at 31000? A: the relative air over the wing is comprised due to the already built up ice, disrupting the airflow. Q: why did that captain ask to turn off the de-ice? A. Hes more concerned with gain power from turning it off and climbing, than the fact its -14 outside with already likely built up ice. The engines were NOT flamed out. Power was reduced by the autothrottle or auto mach when the speed when up as the plane was gaining a bit of speed when descending. Either that OR they got the engines back going during the descent.
At (too) high angle of attack ice may form at the underside of the wings behind the heated leading edge. If that happens a stall will be much more likely. As every pilot knows the only action to effect recovery will be pushing the control column forward.
This crew were underpaid, insufficiently trained and possibly fatigued.
Poor souls
Sad tragedy 😢
If the pilot pull back, but the first officer pull forward, what the plane will do? Obey the pilot ?
Back you got answers
Why does the video show the nose of a 757 in the preflight together with the landing of a 757. They were flying a MD-82, not a 757. Poor video editing and creators.
It sounds like his “second jobs” was really his “only job”. Having not been paid for 6 mos flying is now a hobby. I can’t believe any of the crew even bothered showing up.
We no need America... A month later, America plese help us 😂
For whatever reason both engines quit, I believe.
Experience and age differences=steep cockpit gradient
6:10 waiting until the weight🤔
WHY do pilots pull the control column BACK in a stall condition??
/Why is this a pattern of behavior?? 😮
imagine being a pilot and not getting paid for SIX MONTHS. That alone is a recipe for disaster, but that's what you can expect from a 3rd world country.
as soon as they knew its a stall they could of put it down for a bit then get level ...
How much more vocal you need someone to be? The kid is screaming Stall in the Capt. Face.. Should be good enough.
sorry, im taking controls regardless if he is doing it or not. IE im just going to turn the deicing back on OR would have just said 'negative' when he asked for it originally. The OAT was clearly reading -14 when there flying right at precept. Thats a negative capt.
No the FO should have taken control
At 2:05, It's pronounced SKED-u-le...duh!!!
You've never heard shed-ule? I suppose "leftenant" is also unknown to you. 😂😂😂
@@nsnopper😂
Like the Air France crash why didn't the pilots push the nose down to get out of the stall.
Oops, show is showing fan blades which were not damaged. This means that the engines were not working or turning at impact. COMEON guys. How coujd you make a simple mistake. Do you not think your viewers were not paying attention??
What flight was it
The ice is probleme here
I've never seen this one 😅
I dont know how to trust airplanes at this point
It's obvious, the crash was the result of the captain working those bartending shifts. I think that bar should be investigated......that's where it all starts.
At first it flew too high and then it flew too low.
Look it’s the airplane from the season 13-17 intro 0:16
Cockpit resource management failed at the time it is most vital. That caused this accident.
Arrow 1285 next
I've said it once and I'll say again... pilots need to learn how to glide before ever getting into a engine-powered plane.
PS> Never fly an MD-80. They're awful.
I rather fly confidently with auto pilot throughout rather than human pilots