I always enjoy your videos, I am taking the leap into my first open source Matek F-405 FC, It is going to be a hard learning curve for me because computers and I don't get along. Keep up the great videos .
@@garrison9078 One option is to use a Y-wire to send the one rudder channel to two servos. If have a spare channel on receiver, you can program on transmitter to duplicate the default rudder channel to the second (this would not require Y-wire). ie: a configuration option vs. hardwired option Be sure to test on the bench, to ensure both rudders move in same direction as intended.
What do you think, what's the efficiency difference between your pusher and tractor? The motor? The fuselage? You have the wings pretty much the same don't you? That would be crazy if 30 minutes was the efficiency difference of prop placement. But either way we are not comparing apples to apples. Two almost identical airplanes would be needed. But I love pushers anyway 😅 Good job, good flight Nathan! 😊🤘♥️
Wait a minute... If you compare the two anyway: Pusher 2:01:48 Distance 69.67km 8075mAh Tractor 1:34:56 69.39km 8115mAh So either I am totally wrong, or the tractor is more efficient. You covered basically the same distance, higher avg speed, almost the same mAh in less time. If you fly with an Airliner which one would you choose? 😅 I know that it's very common thing to see efficiency in RC plane, how long you can fly (enjoy the plane) but if the general concept of efficiency is to get somewhere fast and cheap, then the Tractor is my Airliner to choose 😊 Makes it sense or I am off? Damn I am curious how mine will fly, unfortunately the weather is mostly just.... pouring.
@@valkyrie_workshop The way I have had it explained was that pusher is less efficient because the air on the propeller is dirty from the turbulence of the plane body and wings. So the propeller isn't cutting through the air efficiently. Same issue with double motor quadrotors. The main reason to have a pusher is to have your optics have clear view of the ground and the area in front.
Yeah, the term efficiency would be indeed the distance over mAh instead of time duration, which I’d call ‘endurance’ or endurance efficiency. With the data you mentioned, both platforms did 115mAh/km, with the tractor being the fastest to reach ~8000mAh/70km, but conditions were completely opposed to each other as well. Tractor had almost no wind, being able to cruise faster, opposed to the Pusher, fighting winds & drizzle. A pusher plane is more stable by nature and aerodynamically advantageous compared to the tractor layout: The boundary layer of the fuselage/profile is re-energized, causing ‘lost energy’ to be propelled. There is clean air over the wings of a pusher in relation to propwash from a tractor. The de-stabilizing part is the rotated propwash hitting the stabilizers ‘weathercock effect?’ causing the plane to roll to one side for tractor planes. These factors are a minor gain in real aviation, but by experience with my platforms, the Pusher does better than tractor. Able to fly slower, feeling more stable, lower stallspeed & lower cruise throttle to stay aloft & cruise just as fast. Efficiency is about 95-98mAh/km for the pusher in optimal conditions (3.5-4A avg. cruise) beating the tractor by a longshot, if conditions were equal. Appreciated it Valkyrie ❤️🪽
@@AeroStuffFPV Yeah I know the "PROS" for pushers, although pushers in real aviation are practically non existent. But didn't actually know it could be that difference in RC planes configurations. Thanks for your elaboration and details 👍😊♥️ Looks like I gotta hurry up with the DIY Talon GT Rebel 😅
Full scale conceptual design is exactly the same. There’s more models with pusher because the noise is tolerated and the vibration is not felt. And it’s fun because it’s different. There are some viable full size pushers but mostly it’s more trouble than it’s worth, from a practical standpoint
I’ve still been obsessed with twin motor planes lol.. my foam build reptile dragon 2 copy.. still have the twin I’ve been flying. I took the paper off the foam and used some fiberglass sheets and epoxy to make it more rigid and durable. I’m about to build a new plane and I think I’m gonna do a single engine design.. I need something smaller for where I just moved. My diy reptile dragon 2 build is awesome but it’s scales up like 25% flys great but it’s so heavy and slick I literally need a 300 foot long landing area.. and that’s belly landing of course haha
Have you tried a larger pitch prop? you can check the APC website for data on props at given airspeeds. Not sure if this data was obtained in a wind tunnel, but it's very good, and unlike any other static thrust data on other manufacturers, as it takes forward airspeed into account. also a lower KV on 6s should be more efficient, and there are many options still at 6S and easy to step voltage down using cheap (probably the same ) ESC's and BEC's. a friend used a square prop to fly over 10 hrs on a charge with a slightly larger model and li-ion. used a square prop. same pitch as diameter.
Also, The ESC limitation is significant, and this could cause you to lose the aircraft on long range flights, as the ESC will give up and shut off long before the battery is depleted, sacrificing the whole airplane to save the Lipo, which you do not even have... Highly recommend Castle ESC's, but you do have to turn off the low voltage cutoff, or set it to something insanely low, such as 5V total. I'm guessing there was another 20+ minutes in the battery, maybe over 30. on 4S I usually fly down to 12V li-Ion, and I can still do a go around safely if needed. also embedding as much into the wing, such as the aileron servos, would help a lot. very helpful that you have no landing gear too.
There is also TetaCalc, with data from wind tunnel. I found it on forums where efficiency was discussed a lot. But damn it is quite hard-core spread sheet. Had no time to study it much. But You are on good point, I seen many Talons running high pich prop, or at least 9x7.5, 9x8 if 9x6 was recommended. But I would like to also add to this topic that those Talons has a motors that are utilized at or near their maximum efficiency, so not running ESC on Low Duty Cycle that has losses. It tho feels like good challenge to find a right setup, find the optimal cruise speed to drag profile ( + the point where induced and parasitic drag are both the lowest) and the spot-on PROP. That´s why I wanna build a Talon GT modded copy and see what I can get from the original size motor. 😊✈
Good points. Will check out that data website. Any of us who have a flight controller with data logging capabilities have essentially a wind tunnel in the form of a real world data collection device. Props are the easiest to change, so the easiest to experiment with. As far as efficiency, it depends on your objective, how to optimize the system, endurance or range. The aircraft type is different and flown differently. Some can do both reasonably well but neither can do everything well. Endurance is all about sink rate, and propulsion system efficiency for a given mass. And the speed used is relatively close to the stall speed. Distance is a compromise of speed and low power consumption which gives you the optimal km per kWh under a given set of conditions. And since you’re trying to go somewhere, and conditions are not always the same, you’ll need to adapt to a variety of speeds, so you need an airplane which is capable of going a bit faster than is actually optimal under perfect circumstances. Both types must be able to carry a massive battery.
@@FPVREVIEWSThat's literally a spreadsheet to download and apparently supposed to be used in MS Excel. On Google sheets the functions seem to be not working. You're right with the wind tunnel haha 👍 And thanks for elaboration, good-good!
Good morning , In the video you say that the ESC automatically limited the passage of amps which is compatible with the use of LiPo batteries. But is it not possible to change this parameter in the ESC so that it is compatible with the use of Li/ion battery which would further increase the flight time. In any case, thank you for your videos which are always very interesting and which prove that with few means you can achieve a lot which was the philosophy of the channel that you took over. What I also take away from your various tests is that the ideal cell is the flying wing and that the ideal engine configuration is a push-down position. On the other hand, there is also a parameter that counts a lot in the distances that you manage to cover: the topography of the area where you are flying: very flat, therefore without parasite/deflection of your radio/video signals by the terrain but your flights are still very impressive considering the power you use. I can't imagine what you would be able to do with a 733mhz TX and a 1.2/1.3 mhz VTX. I have at home a TX EzUHF module with its 8-channel receiver from Immersion RC and a Vtx/Vrx set in 1.2/1.3 MHz (both together have their antennas of course) which are getting old and gathering dust on my shelves. I'm ready to give you some as gifts if you're interested . This is a serious offer
@@wojtek3016 I got SpeedyBee full size and mini. Both working perfectly, awesome manual, accessories, solid PCB, they put tons of copper on the full-size PDB 👌 But the Bluetooth is only good for changing few settings in the field. Setting up the entire board via BT or SpeedyBee app would be painful. Now I am regretting the extra money for the full size. If you don't use tons of peripherals, the MINI is even better value 😊👌
@@HolyOllie the propeller can cut off your finger and if you land it on the grass the propeller damage by the impact of landing... I hope the author would reply on us so we can understand the principle of that kind of tech
Very interesting video! Thanks for your work
I always enjoy your videos, I am taking the leap into my first open source Matek F-405 FC, It is going to be a hard learning curve for me because computers and I don't get along. Keep up the great videos .
Good luck! We all came from there.
Check out Painless360’s videos about setting up Matek Boards. I’m sure it’ll help.
@@AeroStuffFPV, Hi, can you please suggest me how to operate TWIN RUDDER with 6 channel RC transmitter. Warm Regards
@@garrison9078 One option is to use a Y-wire to send the one rudder channel to two servos. If have a spare channel on receiver, you can program on transmitter to duplicate the default rudder channel to the second (this would not require Y-wire).
ie: a configuration option vs. hardwired option
Be sure to test on the bench, to ensure both rudders move in same direction as intended.
Another cool video
Amazing!
That's pretty impressive! This was fun to watch
What do you think, what's the efficiency difference between your pusher and tractor? The motor? The fuselage? You have the wings pretty much the same don't you? That would be crazy if 30 minutes was the efficiency difference of prop placement. But either way we are not comparing apples to apples. Two almost identical airplanes would be needed.
But I love pushers anyway 😅
Good job, good flight Nathan! 😊🤘♥️
Wait a minute... If you compare the two anyway:
Pusher
2:01:48
Distance 69.67km
8075mAh
Tractor
1:34:56
69.39km
8115mAh
So either I am totally wrong, or the tractor is more efficient. You covered basically the same distance, higher avg speed, almost the same mAh in less time.
If you fly with an Airliner which one would you choose? 😅
I know that it's very common thing to see efficiency in RC plane, how long you can fly (enjoy the plane) but if the general concept of efficiency is to get somewhere fast and cheap, then the Tractor is my Airliner to choose 😊
Makes it sense or I am off?
Damn I am curious how mine will fly, unfortunately the weather is mostly just.... pouring.
@@valkyrie_workshop The way I have had it explained was that pusher is less efficient because the air on the propeller is dirty from the turbulence of the plane body and wings. So the propeller isn't cutting through the air efficiently. Same issue with double motor quadrotors. The main reason to have a pusher is to have your optics have clear view of the ground and the area in front.
Yeah, the term efficiency would be indeed the distance over mAh instead of time duration, which I’d call ‘endurance’ or endurance efficiency.
With the data you mentioned, both platforms did 115mAh/km, with the tractor being the fastest to reach ~8000mAh/70km, but conditions were completely opposed to each other as well. Tractor had almost no wind, being able to cruise faster, opposed to the Pusher, fighting winds & drizzle.
A pusher plane is more stable by nature and aerodynamically advantageous compared to the tractor layout: The boundary layer of the fuselage/profile is re-energized, causing ‘lost energy’ to be propelled. There is clean air over the wings of a pusher in relation to propwash from a tractor. The de-stabilizing part is the rotated propwash hitting the stabilizers ‘weathercock effect?’ causing the plane to roll to one side for tractor planes.
These factors are a minor gain in real aviation, but by experience with my platforms, the Pusher does better than tractor. Able to fly slower, feeling more stable, lower stallspeed & lower cruise throttle to stay aloft & cruise just as fast.
Efficiency is about 95-98mAh/km for the pusher in optimal conditions (3.5-4A avg. cruise) beating the tractor by a longshot, if conditions were equal.
Appreciated it Valkyrie ❤️🪽
@@AeroStuffFPV Yeah I know the "PROS" for pushers, although pushers in real aviation are practically non existent. But didn't actually know it could be that difference in RC planes configurations.
Thanks for your elaboration and details 👍😊♥️
Looks like I gotta hurry up with the DIY Talon GT Rebel 😅
Full scale conceptual design is exactly the same. There’s more models with pusher because the noise is tolerated and the vibration is not felt. And it’s fun because it’s different. There are some viable full size pushers but mostly it’s more trouble than it’s worth, from a practical standpoint
Great video. Thanks for sharing the inside and parts. Nice music too :)
I’ve still been obsessed with twin motor planes lol.. my foam build reptile dragon 2 copy.. still have the twin I’ve been flying. I took the paper off the foam and used some fiberglass sheets and epoxy to make it more rigid and durable. I’m about to build a new plane and I think I’m gonna do a single engine design.. I need something smaller for where I just moved. My diy reptile dragon 2 build is awesome but it’s scales up like 25% flys great but it’s so heavy and slick I literally need a 300 foot long landing area.. and that’s belly landing of course haha
Nice nav lights Aero Stuff!!!
Have you tried a larger pitch prop? you can check the APC website for data on props at given airspeeds. Not sure if this data was obtained in a wind tunnel, but it's very good, and unlike any other static thrust data on other manufacturers, as it takes forward airspeed into account. also a lower KV on 6s should be more efficient, and there are many options still at 6S and easy to step voltage down using cheap (probably the same ) ESC's and BEC's. a friend used a square prop to fly over 10 hrs on a charge with a slightly larger model and li-ion. used a square prop. same pitch as diameter.
Also, The ESC limitation is significant, and this could cause you to lose the aircraft on long range flights, as the ESC will give up and shut off long before the battery is depleted, sacrificing the whole airplane to save the Lipo, which you do not even have... Highly recommend Castle ESC's, but you do have to turn off the low voltage cutoff, or set it to something insanely low, such as 5V total. I'm guessing there was another 20+ minutes in the battery, maybe over 30. on 4S I usually fly down to 12V li-Ion, and I can still do a go around safely if needed. also embedding as much into the wing, such as the aileron servos, would help a lot. very helpful that you have no landing gear too.
There is also TetaCalc, with data from wind tunnel. I found it on forums where efficiency was discussed a lot. But damn it is quite hard-core spread sheet. Had no time to study it much. But You are on good point, I seen many Talons running high pich prop, or at least 9x7.5, 9x8 if 9x6 was recommended. But I would like to also add to this topic that those Talons has a motors that are utilized at or near their maximum efficiency, so not running ESC on Low Duty Cycle that has losses. It tho feels like good challenge to find a right setup, find the optimal cruise speed to drag profile ( + the point where induced and parasitic drag are both the lowest) and the spot-on PROP. That´s why I wanna build a Talon GT modded copy and see what I can get from the original size motor. 😊✈
Good points. Will check out that data website. Any of us who have a flight controller with data logging capabilities have essentially a wind tunnel in the form of a real world data collection device. Props are the easiest to change, so the easiest to experiment with. As far as efficiency, it depends on your objective, how to optimize the system, endurance or range. The aircraft type is different and flown differently. Some can do both reasonably well but neither can do everything well. Endurance is all about sink rate, and propulsion system efficiency for a given mass. And the speed used is relatively close to the stall speed. Distance is a compromise of speed and low power consumption which gives you the optimal km per kWh under a given set of conditions. And since you’re trying to go somewhere, and conditions are not always the same, you’ll need to adapt to a variety of speeds, so you need an airplane which is capable of going a bit faster than is actually optimal under perfect circumstances.
Both types must be able to carry a massive battery.
@@FPVREVIEWSThat's literally a spreadsheet to download and apparently supposed to be used in MS Excel. On Google sheets the functions seem to be not working. You're right with the wind tunnel haha 👍 And thanks for elaboration, good-good!
Good morning ,
In the video you say that the ESC automatically limited the passage of amps which is compatible with the use of LiPo batteries. But is it not possible to change this parameter in the ESC so that it is compatible with the use of Li/ion battery which would further increase the flight time. In any case, thank you for your videos which are always very interesting and which prove that with few means you can achieve a lot which was the philosophy of the channel that you took over. What I also take away from your various tests is that the ideal cell is the flying wing and that the ideal engine configuration is a push-down position. On the other hand, there is also a parameter that counts a lot in the distances that you manage to cover: the topography of the area where you are flying: very flat, therefore without parasite/deflection of your radio/video signals by the terrain but your flights are still very impressive considering the power you use. I can't imagine what you would be able to do with a 733mhz TX and a 1.2/1.3 mhz VTX. I have at home a TX EzUHF module with its 8-channel receiver from Immersion RC and a Vtx/Vrx set in 1.2/1.3 MHz (both together have their antennas of course) which are getting old and gathering dust on my shelves. I'm ready to give you some as gifts if you're interested . This is a serious offer
ขอบคุณมากครับ
Will you ever do a step by step on design basics?
Yoo
What is your opinion on Speedybee fixed wing controller? It looks good with Wifi and Bluetooth and all the bells and whistles.
@@wojtek3016 I got SpeedyBee full size and mini. Both working perfectly, awesome manual, accessories, solid PCB, they put tons of copper on the full-size PDB 👌 But the Bluetooth is only good for changing few settings in the field. Setting up the entire board via BT or SpeedyBee app would be painful.
Now I am regretting the extra money for the full size. If you don't use tons of peripherals, the MINI is even better value 😊👌
Wifi and Bluetooth won’t work at range. Only during setup. A good SIK radio setup will allow wireless long range communication
I always watching your videos
You guys doing amazing job
Can you suggest me any cost effective datalink system
SIK radios are for telemetry. there are some inexpensive ones out there.
Why do not run ELRS buddy?
Great video - thank you! What are your spars/tube made of? Some sort of carbon fiber?
1m span 6mm carbon tube
Thank you!!!
How to land it without wheels?
catch or land in grass usually
@@HolyOllie the propeller can cut off your finger and if you land it on the grass the propeller damage by the impact of landing... I hope the author would reply on us so we can understand the principle of that kind of tech
Sorry but not the time but the distance with one battery that counts.
Depends what you’re trying to achieve. Going somewhere or time on station