Personally my favorite part about the scene is Summer gathering Raven with that "you're one to talk" line. Summer is very clearly resentful towards Raven for leaving Yang, not so much because she doesn't want to raise her, but because she knows how much that abandonment will hurt Yang later on.
Same, she's able to work with Raven, but there's still some contention, either because she thinks low of the abandonment itself, she doesn't like how it will hurt yang or both.
Seeing Yang sharing parallels with Summer is surprising yet fitting because Yang is always compared to Raven even tho Summer willingly became Yang's mom.
Don’t forget that for most of Yang’s early childhood, Summer was the only mother Yang knew. And, to a certain degree, that’s still the case. Even if they both wanted that relationship again, they won’t change their minds on the paths they’ve chosen
Raven probably thinks that not only did she lose Summer to Salem (presumably) but will also inevitably lose Yang to Salem. She's afraid, so afraid, and clearly does love Yang.
The question that’s on my mind now is how much time passed on Remnant while we were in the Everafter? What was her initial reaction to her daughter being “dead” after learning from the others? And by the hands of someone (Cinder) who she teamed up with volume 5?
@@OnceWasSomething same here. If Raven gets her shot at redemption, then that’s what she would need to do. I feel like Raven could train the main characters to become strong enough to fight Salem’s henchmen. Even so, I can’t imagine what they would need to do to defeat Salem. Maybe bring her back to the tree in volume 9 to force her to ascend into someone else?
Still seems a little odd that she would hate him when he’s trying to protect everyone. He’s not perfect at it but it’s better than the person actively trying to destroy everything.
@@kaijuchan97 Yeah like I could understand that she hates both of them if Ozpin did some shady stuff too but I haven't really seen any of that. Sure he hides a bit much from people and his plan was essentially just an eternal stalemate but that's not really screaming out "don't trust this man" especially when he gets back stabbed a lot.
And may probably be the last time she might see Yang for a while too cause after that they fell into everafter who knows how long have they been gone. Last time someone part ways with her in that manner she never saw again.....
V9 gives WHOLE new context to “I’m sorry.” Because she may have realized she should have been there for them after Summer died. That she regrets not believing in Ruby as she did Summer, Salem’s immortality or otherwise.
@@GRIMHOOD99 Her and Tai are probably smashing on the daily. The kid's are finally out of the house she's finally at least semi made up with Yang so it's the perfect time for a booty call or several.
@redpandafirefox9434 Blake took a step back away from the Fang realizing it was turning into a terrorist org. Raven's tribe was described by Qrow as being killers and thieves by default and Raven was set to be their leader (or at least an heir to one) as is and was trained that way til they joined the academy. Blake had reason to protect her family and those in the White Fang from Adam but she was scared of him. Blake's position as a former chief's daughter is not comparable to Raven's status in her tribe. Blake was also symphathetic of the prejudice against her kind and believed that assault on the Schnee Company's operations was deserved to some extent, only showing disapproval of killing. Raven felt she had no choice but to lead her people albeit I think she does feel that her tribe's actions are justified to some degree. Blake ran away because she was outnumbered and scared. Raven ran away because she believed everything about herself was not mom material (she killed a maiden to protect her tribe and all in Remnant by preventing Salem from getting all 4 by hiding) They are not the same.
Makes me more curious to the dynamics of team STRQ, I always assumed Summer played as the kind one of them like Ruby but here she dosent hesitate to clap back at Raven, though that could be a later development cause of Yang. I’d like to see their “landing strategy” Team creation day, seems like a lot of big personalities on the team.
It's my secret hope that one day an episode ends with one of TRQ telling the team/Ruby/yang like "we were never supposed to end up like this. We were so good when we started" and ends, then when the next episode comes on it opens with team STRQ's first day, where oz issues almost the exact same challenge, and we get to see how all of their personalities and stuff were when they first met. Not that it's gonna happen 😂😢
@@malignantsloth9726 It would be great but if it's included in the main story it shouldn't be longer than 3-4 episodes, with cuts of RWBY, JNR and the others asking questions, otherwise it would be too much of a narrative cut, but the idea is excellent!!
After this video and other context clues from Vol 6-7, using team RWBY as a parallel: Early Team STRQ Summer=Yang (Protective) Ty=Ruby (Kindness) Raven=Weiss (Arrogant confidence) Qrow=Blake (Fearful) due to his Unlucky semblance This changes for Summer and Raven later on, while Ty and Qrow fall deeper into this. And vol9 also makes me wonder as we know Qrow and Raven worked for Ozpin, same as Summer. Did Ty not? Most likely because the girls.
@@ZephX27 Yea Raven does seem to imply in Vol 5 that team STRQ were all favorites of Ozpin just like team RWBY was, letting them get away with stuff, special missions etc, so it is interesting that Tai seems to be out of the loop on the mission. Oz does seem to keep things close to the chest so maybe just Tai not actively running missions for him is enough for him to no longer be given information.
I think beneath it all Raven had huge respect for Summer and her death was probably what made her lose all hope. I could see her thinking: ''If not even Summer could survive this why should I even bother?''. I also like how it clearly showed the Summer loved Yang like she was her own daughter, because when she said ''I love you just the way you are'' she was looking back and forth between Ruby and Yang.
These clip makes absolutely sense for Raven from the past when Summer was talking to her and now with Yang mad at her for running away, also to face Salam and Ruby when she said right in front her, “you sound just like your mother”
Raven cried because she took Summer’s family from her, when she saw Ruby Raven only saw Summer’s optimism and seeing Yang Raven saw Summer’s determination. And now Raven doesn’t have anything left of Summer
She didn’t take summer’s family from her?. Summer took hers. Summer made a choice when she took whatever mission her and Qrow did that resulted in her death or whatever happened. Raven cried because she felt the shame of choosing her tribe over her daughter. 😊
Damn, Yang acting so much like Summer explains Raven's waterworks in the relic chamber; she realizes that she lost her chance to be her mother and the impact of it's loss nails hers.
I don’t think enough focus is put on who Raven was as a person. Her upbringing alone makes sense as to why she chose the life she did?. I don’t agree with it but I mean.. what can Raven do now?. She doesn’t have that family to come back to. Summer took the role. Sure she can be in yang’s life but still
@@ethrsag735 I wouldn’t say that. Yang hardly mentioned Summer to her. You can interpret Raven crying at the time in many different ways.. but I think it’s simpler than any of that. Think she just feels bad that she’s choosing herself over her daughter again. I doubt summer played any part in her emotions at the time. It was her and Yang.
@Summer King Which is my point. Yang emulating her late friend shows who Yang sees as her mother, this nuanced choice is what hits hard with the shoulder check foreshadowing the Summer/Raven flashback.
Summer and what happened that night had to tie into the reason Raven became who she is. Raven was a bit distant from her family yes, but still showed she was peppy with Summer before she vanished. Hopefully if we get volume 10 Raven returns for some answers.
My personal headcanon right now is that the "mission" had to do with Raven getting her maiden powers. After dealing with the maiden they are ambushed by numerous grimm and Summer tragically loses her life (or is captured and taken to Salem) while Raven makes her escape.
The girls are so much similar to their moms it's very potent that both Ruby and yang have the similar traits of their mother. Well having the different clothing styles of their mothers. While also being there on unique Selfs. It's very much that there is a lot of similarities from Yang to Raven. to summer to Ruby. For what makes them very different is how they approach things.
OMG. I am glad I am not the only one to notice the parallel of these two scenes. Summer's aloof anger and her statement of doing things right followed by the shoulder bump is mirrored in Yang's actions. And I think that's what hurts Raven the most. She is feeling like she is going to lose Yang the same way she lost Summer. I have a theory that whether her involvement in Summer's death was direct or indirect, it's exactly what makes her keep her distance even more fervently than before. Perhaps the younger Raven would have stepped up to be with the girls if something else happened to Summer, to give them a semblance of a mother figure. But with her involvement in the events that spell Summer's death she would feel guilty, and undeserving of claiming the position that Summer thus far occupied in their little family. After all how would she face those little girls day after day knowing it was her decisions that got their mother killed? I am probably going off a lot here. But thanks for the clip! ❤
Maybe, maybe not, possibility is that summer eventually went in alone or they got separated or simply put raven didn't have the chance to save summer so all that was left was to flee, I think we all know that fleeing hurt raven in a way that will probably never go away
That was so well said! After this scene, I started thinking that Raven must have felt totally undeserving, guilty, scared and ashamed to step up and come home to the family after whatever happened to Summer. Guilty that she couldn't handle something that was out of her control (thus also her fear of Salem), ashamed that she left once cause she considered herself incapable/not enough of being a good mother and to come back after everything. I wonder how will she even react and face the family, especially the girls after they found out she was involved in Summer's disappearance... awaiting breakdowns
It's a lot easier to empathise with Raven when you think about it as Ozpin is sending kids off to fight an unwinnable war for him and she's basically the only protestor, everyone else is buying into the ideal, the glory, the belief that they will save the world. It's like so much world war propaganda where youngsters were hyped up to believe they were heroes and doing what was right and good, trusting the older men whose lives weren't on the line, and Raven to me reminds me of those people who protested war or were deserters. The show sets us up to dislike her, because when we first meet her we still all see Oz the way the students do: someone kind, wise and to be trusted, with an ultimate winning master plan. Raven as the person hiding out and eventually siding with the enemy to save her tribe (also her other family) we see as naturally despicable. But I think the fact that she's so mysterious means we're going to end up sympathising more with her. Possibly she was trying to prevent Yang and Ruby from even getting involved in the first place. But possibly she also saw them as lost causes, just like how trying to save loved ones deeply enmeshed in a cult isn't always possible. Funnily enough I think she and Summer had the same goal even though Summer is seen as the role model. Red Like Roses part II specifically Summer is talking about how she didn't want Ruby to shoulder her burden, that her sacrifice was meant to spare Ruby, which is sad given how Ruby wants to follow in her mother's footsteps.
even I notice the similarities of their personality. Even the way Summer talk to Raven also sounded like Ruby when she isn't in a good mood. the scriptwriter is genius.
And ruby not in a good mood is rare that probably is the same case for summer ...... And the fact that raven managed to piss off summer and probably Ruby after vol.9 is something else granted Ruby is gonna be mad at raven from not saying anything about summer when they met.
I knew it! I knew someone would notice the parallels between those scenes! I knew it! When I first watched the finale and saw that moment with Summer, especially when she hits Raven, I quickly thought of that moment with Yang. Whether they did it ironically or intentionally, good god it made me giddy and made me think of that scene but with the context of the finale. I knew someone would spot this! Thank you! The family drama thickens.
Yeah, it is entirely possible due to Raven's interactions with Watts and Cinder that she might have sold Summer out for some form of protection or at least indifference from Salem for her and tribe
Raven and Summer tried to defeat Salem but were defeated. Salem planned to turn Raven into one of her silver-eyed Grimms, so Summer asked Raven to kill her. Raven did and managed to escape, but killing Summer left her guilt-ridden and cynical
For what i can understand it seems that Raven initially left for an inferiority complex towards Summer (which probably accentuated when the latter married Tai). My guess is that she saw Summer's death and was traumatized to the point that she lost all hope and tried to cut all ties with her previous life (except watching over Yang in bird form from time to time) and that would be the reason why she acted so fearfull back in Volume 5, because the memory and guilt she feels for Summer's death are still vivid in her mind, even more with seeing Ruby and Yang behaving this much like Summer.
Crazy how raven was about to use her classic line ”it’s complicated” on Summer but decided not to. Probably cause Summer the only one who actually understands whatever Raven went through
1:01 Take a good look at Raven's eyes in those following few seconds. They go from literally glowing with life to completely numb and expressionless. I never even noticed it before, but with what we now learned recently in volume 9, I'm even more convinced I could be on to something with my personal theory of Raven being deeply traumatized by whatever it was she had to witness happening to Summer. The moment Ruby starts reminding her of Summer, Raven switches off and goes into avoidance mode. Her eyes go dull not because she chooses not to be interested in what Ruby has to say, but because her brain made a split second decision to put down a wall between Ruby and herself. As someone who has it herself, I can tell you that this is something very typical for PTSD, especially when you've had it for a while but never sought help with it. After a while, your brain starts learning avoidance patterns and methods to protect you from traumatic memories and intrusive thoughts. So the moment you get triggered by something, your mind essentially immediately switches into autopilot and tries to create distance between you and whatever it is that your brain thinks is trying to hurt you. PTSD is basically a survival instinct that has gone completely out of control to the point it becomes a self-contained, vicious cycle. Not only does your mind keep reminding you of your trauma so you stay scared and never put yourself into that position again, but your mind also then forces you to get away from that pain it keeps reminding you of at all cost because it's trying to protect you. The only person so far who's able to pull Raven out of her disordered mindspace is Yang and that is because Raven puts in every effort to allow it. During that infamous talk Raven had with Yang in the vault? Raven never looked away from Yang even once, even forced herself to look at her in her most vulnerable moments when it was clear in her eyes and voice that she didn't want to, like when Yang asked what happened to the previous Spring Maiden or when she confronted Raven about being scared of Salem. Raven kept on checking in on Yang throughout the years in her bird form. And even though she has a personal rule about it, she _did_ save Yang's life in volume 2. Not to mention the biggest hint of all: she can open a portal to Yang. Raven cares. She isn't cowardly in the selfish sense by choice that she's only interested in her own survival and everyone else can go F themselves. She's cowardly in the sick, broken sense that she has little to no control over. She has seen things, probably also had to do things she can't cope with, so her mind focuses on survival at all cost and even then she still finds it in herself to let in the daughter she abandoned because she _knows_ she screwed up there and she doesn't want Yang to pay for it more than she already had to. So she let's Yang hurt her with the truth, even though it breaks her. Raven isn't evil. She represents the ugly side of trauma. The side that nobody ever wants to accept exists.
Yoou shouldnwrite your own book dude, i dont think ive seen an explanation more vivid and precise over a character, i mean youre 100%right no kidding, ravens broken becuase of the things she saw and did, maybe go so far as to be forced to leave summer behind and shes imagining the suffering she went through every single day
You really really get her. My least favorite interipatuon of raven is that she’s this evil awful woman which misses the point completely. Like if you believe that you’ve completely bought into the front she puts up
That scene with Raven and Summer showed a friendship that so few people believe existed. It was very commonly assumed that Raven felt inferior to Summer in EVERY way, but this comparison showed she truly cared. If not accepted that Summer was the better person.
I love these comparisons and I'm glad I'm not the only one to point them out. Its subtle but shows just how much Summer meant to Yang and her development as a person, being a child having to raise another child and choosing Summer as her main influence on how to be a parent/grown up for Ruby.
The memory of Summer is certainly an armor-piercer to Raven. Heck, she didn't get truly upset until Yang accused her of the possibility of killing Summer.
That scene makes Raven’s “I’m sorry” have even more layers. Was she apologizing to Yang for her failure as a mother, or was she apologizing to Summer for failing to keep their daughters out of this?
godddd the way that this fucking clip recontextualizes SO much about raven and her actions in v4 and 5 and gives a nod towards an explanation as to why she’s even more Like That now… manifesting she appears in v10 and we finally get the STRQ Lore Rundown. i don’t think she’ll be Redeemed redeemed but i’m glad that they’re showing at least a bit of why she ended up the way she did
This begs alot of questions.😂 Raven tried real hard to portray herself as yangs only real family. Acting like her trying to help ruby was her picking qrow over raven and 'abandoning' her family, when in truth it was yang trying to be there for family. Now we see that in that moment yang was speaking and acting EXACTLY like summer, the woman who raised her. Which begs the question , why was raven really trying to stop her? Was is really as simple as her being scared of salem? Or somethong else?
So give it some thought pretty much Summer went ahead to fight Salem without anyone else knowing. Not knowing Salem was immortal. And the fact Salem knows how to turn humans specifically silver eyes into grimm.
After finding out about this we need to see Raven return in the future. Not just for a flashback but possibly to sacrifice herself to save either Yang or Ruby. She needs to redeem herself.
I can't wait for the next episode. I feel like something really bad happened between Summer and Raven that caused them to resent each other so much - I get the feeling they were best friends in the beginning, until Raven left Yang and it all spiralled from there. Friends, then frenemies and then to enemies.
Lol beat the shit outta raven cause she let summer die but also tries to get raven to redeem herself lol I mean if ruby goes full on Nanoha she could get even raven out of her bandit phase lol.
Can we talk about how Raven's joking and a lot of her general body language in this scene seems to be deliberately similar to how we've seen YANG flirt with Blake?
@@myladynaynay Oh trust me WE WERE GOING INSANE lmao I loved that we finally got to see how they used to interact before and what was their relationship like
Oh poor raven been though alot to see summer rose die by salmn i think thats what changed her by telling them they don't know what they getting into cause she dont want to see them die too
One day Raven will have to fight againts Salem wether the battle comes to her or she brings her ownself to the battle. Then she'll die in the hands of Salem and in the process she'll inherit the spring maiden power to Yang.
So what I get from this is...Summer went straight to Salem's door like an Og. At some point during the confrontation Raven probably left though Summer kept fighting until she was probably killed.
Waaaaaait WAAAAAAIT SHE USED HER SEMBLANCE, RAVEN! Remember how it works? She has one teleport for a one person, one for Tai, one for Yang, one for Qrow and I would assume one for Summer. BUT, to whom she teleported herself and Summer? Not to Tai or Yang or Qrow that’s for sure. So there is one person, that Ravens also familiar with and to whom she left one of her portals.
honestly this scene just makes me realize just how missused Raven kinda was since V5 finale, I love that we see her again but i'd love it even more if we atleast saw what happened after v5 still... regardless i had a sneaking suspiscion that Raven feels the burden of Summer's death, probably even more than tai and qrow, and is obviously...coping in another way if you could not tell.
![[SPOILERS] Ruby Rose Goes Off on [Mostly] Everyone [RWBY Volume 9, Chapter 07]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E21F-PAzUZ0/mqdefault.jpg)
Personally my favorite part about the scene is Summer gathering Raven with that "you're one to talk" line. Summer is very clearly resentful towards Raven for leaving Yang, not so much because she doesn't want to raise her, but because she knows how much that abandonment will hurt Yang later on.
Same, she's able to work with Raven, but there's still some contention, either because she thinks low of the abandonment itself, she doesn't like how it will hurt yang or both.
Funny how you forgot Taiyang was also caught in that mess. In fact he suffered twice as much and he still managed to raise 2 girls almost on his own.
@@FabschOblivion669 Indeed.
@@FabschOblivion669 didn’t Yang have to raise her sister?
@sakurahirawa yes, Taiyang shut down after summer died
THE SHOULDER SLAM FROM BOTH YANG AND SUMMER!!!! I FUCKING FORGOT ABOUT THAT BUT IT SOMEHOW MAKES SO MUCH SENSE NOW
It’s the way she immediately shut down as soon as she was bumped.
@@seraphlazuli6251 and breaks down afterwards. I swear Raven has got some huge trauma regarding Summer and this mission
My dust is on the mission was against Salem and she GANKED Summer and Raven GTFO'D abandoning Summer
Yang takes after her mother Summer.
Now we just need Ruby to shoulder check her
Seeing Yang sharing parallels with Summer is surprising yet fitting because Yang is always compared to Raven even tho Summer willingly became Yang's mom.
Don’t forget that for most of Yang’s early childhood, Summer was the only mother Yang knew. And, to a certain degree, that’s still the case. Even if they both wanted that relationship again, they won’t change their minds on the paths they’ve chosen
@@TVHead003 very true 👍
Raven probably thinks that not only did she lose Summer to Salem (presumably) but will also inevitably lose Yang to Salem. She's afraid, so afraid, and clearly does love Yang.
The question that’s on my mind now is how much time passed on Remnant while we were in the Everafter? What was her initial reaction to her daughter being “dead” after learning from the others? And by the hands of someone (Cinder) who she teamed up with volume 5?
Maybe before she could lose Yang to Salem, she actually does something and saves her daughter’s life for redemption
@@AbS-812 It won't undo a lot of the pain, but I would love to see Raven start to become better.
@@OnceWasSomething same here. If Raven gets her shot at redemption, then that’s what she would need to do. I feel like Raven could train the main characters to become strong enough to fight Salem’s henchmen. Even so, I can’t imagine what they would need to do to defeat Salem. Maybe bring her back to the tree in volume 9 to force her to ascend into someone else?
It's also possible that she blames herself somewhat for Summer's death considering she helped her do whatever it is that she's about to do.
I feel like Raven feels like she is responsible for Summer's death and Summer's death was also the reason that she came to hate Ozpin even more.
Ironic given that Ozpin evidently wasn't even involved in this particular mission, whatever it was.
@@ChaosSepher- the problem is that she found out the truth.
Still seems a little odd that she would hate him when he’s trying to protect everyone. He’s not perfect at it but it’s better than the person actively trying to destroy everything.
@@AdeptKing That's what I try telling the people who, for God knows whatever reason, are actually rooting for Salem.
@@kaijuchan97 Yeah like I could understand that she hates both of them if Ozpin did some shady stuff too but I haven't really seen any of that. Sure he hides a bit much from people and his plan was essentially just an eternal stalemate but that's not really screaming out "don't trust this man" especially when he gets back stabbed a lot.
"Tai, she's not coming"
-Qrow Brawnwen in his poisoned state.
We all know who he's talking about
That Shoulder bump that Yang did to Raven triggered a flashback of Summer doing the same thing. Probably one of reasons Raven started crying.
And may probably be the last time she might see Yang for a while too cause after that they fell into everafter who knows how long have they been gone. Last time someone part ways with her in that manner she never saw again.....
V9 gives WHOLE new context to “I’m sorry.” Because she may have realized she should have been there for them after Summer died. That she regrets not believing in Ruby as she did Summer, Salem’s immortality or otherwise.
Hopefully, Raven can find her heart again. She must’ve been a good person once.
Until she witnessed allies fall to salem
Fear changes people. It forces you to close yourself off, too push others away
She won’t.
Hell she's probably doing a garden work with Tai rn.
@@GRIMHOOD99 Her and Tai are probably smashing on the daily. The kid's are finally out of the house she's finally at least semi made up with Yang so it's the perfect time for a booty call or several.
Summer's problem with Raven was that she didn't even *try* to be a mother, she just ran.
Just like Blake, she runs away from her problems.
@luke jones she learned to deal and face them. Raven never did
@redpandafirefox9434 Blake took a step back away from the Fang realizing it was turning into a terrorist org. Raven's tribe was described by Qrow as being killers and thieves by default and Raven was set to be their leader (or at least an heir to one) as is and was trained that way til they joined the academy. Blake had reason to protect her family and those in the White Fang from Adam but she was scared of him. Blake's position as a former chief's daughter is not comparable to Raven's status in her tribe. Blake was also symphathetic of the prejudice against her kind and believed that assault on the Schnee Company's operations was deserved to some extent, only showing disapproval of killing. Raven felt she had no choice but to lead her people albeit I think she does feel that her tribe's actions are justified to some degree. Blake ran away because she was outnumbered and scared. Raven ran away because she believed everything about herself was not mom material (she killed a maiden to protect her tribe and all in Remnant by preventing Salem from getting all 4 by hiding) They are not the same.
As an adopted child I take offense to this.
Makes me more curious to the dynamics of team STRQ, I always assumed Summer played as the kind one of them like Ruby but here she dosent hesitate to clap back at Raven, though that could be a later development cause of Yang. I’d like to see their “landing strategy” Team creation day, seems like a lot of big personalities on the team.
A spin off series would be great, like getting into the lore of the Great War and all
It's my secret hope that one day an episode ends with one of TRQ telling the team/Ruby/yang like "we were never supposed to end up like this. We were so good when we started" and ends, then when the next episode comes on it opens with team STRQ's first day, where oz issues almost the exact same challenge, and we get to see how all of their personalities and stuff were when they first met.
Not that it's gonna happen 😂😢
@@malignantsloth9726 It would be great but if it's included in the main story it shouldn't be longer than 3-4 episodes, with cuts of RWBY, JNR and the others asking questions, otherwise it would be too much of a narrative cut, but the idea is excellent!!
After this video and other context clues from Vol 6-7, using team RWBY as a parallel:
Early Team STRQ
Summer=Yang (Protective)
Ty=Ruby (Kindness)
Raven=Weiss (Arrogant confidence)
Qrow=Blake (Fearful) due to his Unlucky semblance
This changes for Summer and Raven later on, while Ty and Qrow fall deeper into this. And vol9 also makes me wonder as we know Qrow and Raven worked for Ozpin, same as Summer. Did Ty not? Most likely because the girls.
@@ZephX27 Yea Raven does seem to imply in Vol 5 that team STRQ were all favorites of Ozpin just like team RWBY was, letting them get away with stuff, special missions etc, so it is interesting that Tai seems to be out of the loop on the mission. Oz does seem to keep things close to the chest so maybe just Tai not actively running missions for him is enough for him to no longer be given information.
I loved Summer threw shade, she's not the morally pure mother, she was her own person and definitely did not take any type of shiz
I forgot how much Ruby sounded like a squirrel in v5.
I think beneath it all Raven had huge respect for Summer and her death was probably what made her lose all hope. I could see her thinking: ''If not even Summer could survive this why should I even bother?''.
I also like how it clearly showed the Summer loved Yang like she was her own daughter, because when she said ''I love you just the way you are'' she was looking back and forth between Ruby and Yang.
These clip makes absolutely sense for Raven from the past when Summer was talking to her and now with Yang mad at her for running away, also to face Salam and Ruby when she said right in front her, “you sound just like your mother”
Raven cried because she took Summer’s family from her, when she saw Ruby Raven only saw Summer’s optimism and seeing Yang Raven saw Summer’s determination.
And now Raven doesn’t have anything left of Summer
Yang may have her determination and ruby her optimism but yang definitely has some traits of raven as well, sttuborness is one of them
She didn’t take summer’s family from her?. Summer took hers. Summer made a choice when she took whatever mission her and Qrow did that resulted in her death or whatever happened.
Raven cried because she felt the shame of choosing her tribe over her daughter. 😊
Damn, Yang acting so much like Summer explains Raven's waterworks in the relic chamber; she realizes that she lost her chance to be her mother and the impact of it's loss nails hers.
I don’t think enough focus is put on who Raven was as a person. Her upbringing alone makes sense as to why she chose the life she did?.
I don’t agree with it but I mean.. what can Raven do now?. She doesn’t have that family to come back to. Summer took the role. Sure she can be in yang’s life but still
@@summerking-wq1sd That’s what I mean, her tears over Yang seeing Summer as her mother clearly is something she greatly regrets.
@@ethrsag735 I wouldn’t say that. Yang hardly mentioned Summer to her.
You can interpret Raven crying at the time in many different ways.. but I think it’s simpler than any of that. Think she just feels bad that she’s choosing herself over her daughter again.
I doubt summer played any part in her emotions at the time. It was her and Yang.
@Summer King Which is my point. Yang emulating her late friend shows who Yang sees as her mother, this nuanced choice is what hits hard with the shoulder check foreshadowing the Summer/Raven flashback.
@@ethrsag735 Sounds like she hardly cares either which way lol. She takes more after Raven anyways ..
Summer and what happened that night had to tie into the reason Raven became who she is. Raven was a bit distant from her family yes, but still showed she was peppy with Summer before she vanished.
Hopefully if we get volume 10 Raven returns for some answers.
My personal headcanon right now is that the "mission" had to do with Raven getting her maiden powers. After dealing with the maiden they are ambushed by numerous grimm and Summer tragically loses her life (or is captured and taken to Salem) while Raven makes her escape.
The girls are so much similar to their moms it's very potent that both Ruby and yang have the similar traits of their mother. Well having the different clothing styles of their mothers. While also being there on unique Selfs. It's very much that there is a lot of similarities from Yang to Raven. to summer to Ruby. For what makes them very different is how they approach things.
OMG. I am glad I am not the only one to notice the parallel of these two scenes. Summer's aloof anger and her statement of doing things right followed by the shoulder bump is mirrored in Yang's actions. And I think that's what hurts Raven the most. She is feeling like she is going to lose Yang the same way she lost Summer. I have a theory that whether her involvement in Summer's death was direct or indirect, it's exactly what makes her keep her distance even more fervently than before. Perhaps the younger Raven would have stepped up to be with the girls if something else happened to Summer, to give them a semblance of a mother figure. But with her involvement in the events that spell Summer's death she would feel guilty, and undeserving of claiming the position that Summer thus far occupied in their little family. After all how would she face those little girls day after day knowing it was her decisions that got their mother killed?
I am probably going off a lot here. But thanks for the clip! ❤
Maybe, maybe not, possibility is that summer eventually went in alone or they got separated or simply put raven didn't have the chance to save summer so all that was left was to flee, I think we all know that fleeing hurt raven in a way that will probably never go away
That was so well said! After this scene, I started thinking that Raven must have felt totally undeserving, guilty, scared and ashamed to step up and come home to the family after whatever happened to Summer. Guilty that she couldn't handle something that was out of her control (thus also her fear of Salem), ashamed that she left once cause she considered herself incapable/not enough of being a good mother and to come back after everything.
I wonder how will she even react and face the family, especially the girls after they found out she was involved in Summer's disappearance... awaiting breakdowns
How can you lose what you never had to begin with?
I always thought of it like Raven trying to stop history from repeating itself with Yang & Rub
It's a lot easier to empathise with Raven when you think about it as Ozpin is sending kids off to fight an unwinnable war for him and she's basically the only protestor, everyone else is buying into the ideal, the glory, the belief that they will save the world.
It's like so much world war propaganda where youngsters were hyped up to believe they were heroes and doing what was right and good, trusting the older men whose lives weren't on the line, and Raven to me reminds me of those people who protested war or were deserters.
The show sets us up to dislike her, because when we first meet her we still all see Oz the way the students do: someone kind, wise and to be trusted, with an ultimate winning master plan. Raven as the person hiding out and eventually siding with the enemy to save her tribe (also her other family) we see as naturally despicable.
But I think the fact that she's so mysterious means we're going to end up sympathising more with her. Possibly she was trying to prevent Yang and Ruby from even getting involved in the first place. But possibly she also saw them as lost causes, just like how trying to save loved ones deeply enmeshed in a cult isn't always possible. Funnily enough I think she and Summer had the same goal even though Summer is seen as the role model. Red Like Roses part II specifically Summer is talking about how she didn't want Ruby to shoulder her burden, that her sacrifice was meant to spare Ruby, which is sad given how Ruby wants to follow in her mother's footsteps.
After all that, Raven must have a heavy heart, hidden behind a mask of a cunning person...
I sort of relate to her.
Looking at Summer and Raven, it seems Taiyang had a thing for black-haired women dressed in red and black.
Do you blame him? I don't.
He had the 2 hottest woman in RWBY
@@stampoulisrafail7836 The Whole Team lol
@@lukejones7164implying that includes qrow lol
@@scarletrose8766 u mean it don't? XD
Raven got some explaining to do after that revaluation of her going with summer
Yes she does
Ruby: Explain yourself.
Raven: *sighs*
And ruby will grill raven for that and oh boy that you sound like your mother comment ain't gonna die out lol
even I notice the similarities of their personality. Even the way Summer talk to Raven also sounded like Ruby when she isn't in a good mood.
the scriptwriter is genius.
Ruby is younger summer and yang is almost a younger raven(difference is yang doesnt run in the face of absolute despair)
And ruby not in a good mood is rare that probably is the same case for summer ...... And the fact that raven managed to piss off summer and probably Ruby after vol.9 is something else granted Ruby is gonna be mad at raven from not saying anything about summer when they met.
Gotta love the parallels. Cant wait to see Yang or Ruby get put on a shirt when they face Salem
We can't even imagine what Raven see than. But that's change her forever. Let's hope Raven can talk with Ruby and get her forgiveness. She needs it.
I would love for them to someday make a prequel about Team STRQ.
I knew it! I knew someone would notice the parallels between those scenes! I knew it! When I first watched the finale and saw that moment with Summer, especially when she hits Raven, I quickly thought of that moment with Yang. Whether they did it ironically or intentionally, good god it made me giddy and made me think of that scene but with the context of the finale. I knew someone would spot this! Thank you! The family drama thickens.
I agree with you, mate! 🙂
supposedly Monty wrote the rough outline of the whole show before passing
possibly this is part of it
So Raven became even more
jaded once Summer died.
Raven you better explain Ruby in volume 10 or 11 what really happened to Summers
Yeah, it is entirely possible due to Raven's interactions with Watts and Cinder that she might have sold Summer out for some form of protection or at least indifference from Salem for her and tribe
@@khora3845 honestly it’s going to be if Ruby encounter and Yang hears the conversation as well. That will be wild and intense.
Raven and Summer tried to defeat Salem but were defeated. Salem planned to turn Raven into one of her silver-eyed Grimms, so Summer asked Raven to kill her. Raven did and managed to escape, but killing Summer left her guilt-ridden and cynical
@@amitkenan3878 that sounds amazing and possibly true or not, still love it
@@amitkenan3878 i dont think so i think she escaped when she saw how salem turned summer in a grimm
Raven may be Yangs mom, but Summer was her MOTHER
I can picture Summer having Yondu's role, telling Yang, "Raven may be your mother but she ain't your mama." And then Summer lost her life afterward.
For what i can understand it seems that Raven initially left for an inferiority complex towards Summer (which probably accentuated when the latter married Tai). My guess is that she saw Summer's death and was traumatized to the point that she lost all hope and tried to cut all ties with her previous life (except watching over Yang in bird form from time to time) and that would be the reason why she acted so fearfull back in Volume 5, because the memory and guilt she feels for Summer's death are still vivid in her mind, even more with seeing Ruby and Yang behaving this much like Summer.
Raven probably saw powers beyond what humanity could possibly achieve, despair being present everuwhere she looked as summer died or worse
Crazy how raven was about to use her classic line ”it’s complicated” on Summer but decided not to. Probably cause Summer the only one who actually understands whatever Raven went through
And that raven saying that would sound like bullshit to summer
1:01 Take a good look at Raven's eyes in those following few seconds. They go from literally glowing with life to completely numb and expressionless. I never even noticed it before, but with what we now learned recently in volume 9, I'm even more convinced I could be on to something with my personal theory of Raven being deeply traumatized by whatever it was she had to witness happening to Summer.
The moment Ruby starts reminding her of Summer, Raven switches off and goes into avoidance mode. Her eyes go dull not because she chooses not to be interested in what Ruby has to say, but because her brain made a split second decision to put down a wall between Ruby and herself. As someone who has it herself, I can tell you that this is something very typical for PTSD, especially when you've had it for a while but never sought help with it. After a while, your brain starts learning avoidance patterns and methods to protect you from traumatic memories and intrusive thoughts. So the moment you get triggered by something, your mind essentially immediately switches into autopilot and tries to create distance between you and whatever it is that your brain thinks is trying to hurt you. PTSD is basically a survival instinct that has gone completely out of control to the point it becomes a self-contained, vicious cycle. Not only does your mind keep reminding you of your trauma so you stay scared and never put yourself into that position again, but your mind also then forces you to get away from that pain it keeps reminding you of at all cost because it's trying to protect you.
The only person so far who's able to pull Raven out of her disordered mindspace is Yang and that is because Raven puts in every effort to allow it. During that infamous talk Raven had with Yang in the vault? Raven never looked away from Yang even once, even forced herself to look at her in her most vulnerable moments when it was clear in her eyes and voice that she didn't want to, like when Yang asked what happened to the previous Spring Maiden or when she confronted Raven about being scared of Salem. Raven kept on checking in on Yang throughout the years in her bird form. And even though she has a personal rule about it, she _did_ save Yang's life in volume 2. Not to mention the biggest hint of all: she can open a portal to Yang.
Raven cares. She isn't cowardly in the selfish sense by choice that she's only interested in her own survival and everyone else can go F themselves. She's cowardly in the sick, broken sense that she has little to no control over. She has seen things, probably also had to do things she can't cope with, so her mind focuses on survival at all cost and even then she still finds it in herself to let in the daughter she abandoned because she _knows_ she screwed up there and she doesn't want Yang to pay for it more than she already had to. So she let's Yang hurt her with the truth, even though it breaks her.
Raven isn't evil. She represents the ugly side of trauma. The side that nobody ever wants to accept exists.
😂
Yoou shouldnwrite your own book dude, i dont think ive seen an explanation more vivid and precise over a character, i mean youre 100%right no kidding, ravens broken becuase of the things she saw and did, maybe go so far as to be forced to leave summer behind and shes imagining the suffering she went through every single day
You really really get her. My least favorite interipatuon of raven is that she’s this evil awful woman which misses the point completely. Like if you believe that you’ve completely bought into the front she puts up
That scene with Raven and Summer showed a friendship that so few people believe existed. It was very commonly assumed that Raven felt inferior to Summer in EVERY way, but this comparison showed she truly cared. If not accepted that Summer was the better person.
I have a feeling Raven left Summer to die out of fear
Maybe this why Raven left Ozpin and believes Salem can't be stopped.
That moment when Raven realizes that Yang and Ruby both take after Summer...
I love these comparisons and I'm glad I'm not the only one to point them out.
Its subtle but shows just how much Summer meant to Yang and her development as a person, being a child having to raise another child and choosing Summer as her main influence on how to be a parent/grown up for Ruby.
It’s not that Raven didn’t care, it’s that she cared too much
Like mother. Like daughter
“Summer Rose, my mom” - Yang
raven gettin shoulder-checked through the generations
The memory of Summer is certainly an armor-piercer to Raven. Heck, she didn't get truly upset until Yang accused her of the possibility of killing Summer.
Don’t be sorry, be better.
Yeah, yang and ruby showed that summer is truely their mom and raven is a deadbeat mother
Yang and Ruby acting more like their mother !
That scene makes Raven’s “I’m sorry” have even more layers. Was she apologizing to Yang for her failure as a mother, or was she apologizing to Summer for failing to keep their daughters out of this?
godddd the way that this fucking clip recontextualizes SO much about raven and her actions in v4 and 5 and gives a nod towards an explanation as to why she’s even more Like That now… manifesting she appears in v10 and we finally get the STRQ Lore Rundown. i don’t think she’ll be Redeemed redeemed but i’m glad that they’re showing at least a bit of why she ended up the way she did
"Evil is just a word. Under the skin, it's simple pain."
This begs alot of questions.😂
Raven tried real hard to portray herself as yangs only real family. Acting like her trying to help ruby was her picking qrow over raven and 'abandoning' her family, when in truth it was yang trying to be there for family. Now we see that in that moment yang was speaking and acting EXACTLY like summer, the woman who raised her.
Which begs the question , why was raven really trying to stop her?
Was is really as simple as her being scared of salem? Or somethong else?
So give it some thought pretty much Summer went ahead to fight Salem without anyone else knowing. Not knowing Salem was immortal.
And the fact Salem knows how to turn humans specifically silver eyes into grimm.
Volume 10 will be the redemption of Raven and Neo.
I love how you can see the difference in animation quality
love how this clip confirmed that the only trait that yang got from raven was the awkward loser rizz /j
I’m enjoying this new depth Raven is getting.
After finding out about this we need to see Raven return in the future. Not just for a flashback but possibly to sacrifice herself to save either Yang or Ruby. She needs to redeem herself.
Raven feeling is guilt
I can't wait for the next episode. I feel like something really bad happened between Summer and Raven that caused them to resent each other so much - I get the feeling they were best friends in the beginning, until Raven left Yang and it all spiralled from there. Friends, then frenemies and then to enemies.
haha… frenemies…. is that what they call it these days…
Summer was Ruby *and* Yang's mom 🥺
Can we just appreciate how far the facial animations have come? Damn amazing.
0:01 Superhero landing, woot!
Now that i look at it, the animation seems different, more smooth in early seasons
I feel bad for yang's father, he really was a good man. 😢
Ooooo
Yang resembles Summer the most. Maybe because Ruby is too young to still develop a personality before she was gone.
Ruby: Work with us!
Yang: Seriously?! *looks at Ruby* You're not Mana Aida.
Ruby *after Vol 9*: Nah I'm Nanoha. *loads gun with befriending intent*
Lol beat the shit outta raven cause she let summer die but also tries to get raven to redeem herself lol I mean if ruby goes full on Nanoha she could get even raven out of her bandit phase lol.
NanohaGOD 👌🏻 RubyGOD 👌🏻❤️
Now i wanna see bonding moment between Summer and Crow
Can we talk about how Raven's joking and a lot of her general body language in this scene seems to be deliberately similar to how we've seen YANG flirt with Blake?
Dude you have no idea how happy the Rosebird shippers were about this scene lol
@@myladynaynay Oh trust me WE WERE GOING INSANE lmao
I loved that we finally got to see how they used to interact before and what was their relationship like
Now it’s starting to sound like summer might be a little upset that she didn’t get to seduce Raven and Tai. I did not need that thought
@@tetragaming6332 i always thought they had a threesome....lmao
Wait, I thought Summer x Qrow was secretly a thing 🤣
Man Volume 5 sure is becoming a lot better with hindsight
And the award for best mother goes to…
Not you, Raven.
Oh wow, I forgot that Yang did the shoulder check in volume 5 also! Dude, the parallels... So cool!
Whatever happened to Summer Rose is probably what turned Raven into the ruthless person she is today
I think they should have done the Summer and Raven part after the credits. Would have been so much more epic lol
"You're better at that life, better than I was". Your daughter and family deeply love you and miss you Raven, you couldnt have been that bad
Thank you for this!!
THEY 👏 ARE 👏 SUMMERS 👏 DAUGHTERS 👏
Next chapter needs to be a Raven volume
Oh poor raven been though alot to see summer rose die by salmn i think thats what changed her by telling them they don't know what they getting into cause she dont want to see them die too
Well its time to call ty and see who else raven can link to.
Qrow
@@nicolae-alexandruluca7853 qrow ty summer yang. Well we know were everyone was. Im asking who else? Ozpin goodwitch? Someone we do not know of?
That shoulder smack from Yang was weak, but probably hit like a dump truck for Raven.
*Screams in agony*
I hope we get to see Summer's Semblance and how it stands out compared to her daughter Ruby.
I hope to see more of Summer and Raven at some point
im like so intransed by ravens design every time i see her
One day Raven will have to fight againts Salem wether the battle comes to her or she brings her ownself to the battle. Then she'll die in the hands of Salem and in the process she'll inherit the spring maiden power to Yang.
I’m glad we’re getting more of summer, before it felt like she was used like a mcguffin
I suppose trusting Summer didn’t work out so well
Raven was in love with Summer, in this essay I--
So what I get from this is...Summer went straight to Salem's door like an Og. At some point during the confrontation Raven probably left though Summer kept fighting until she was probably killed.
Man summer’s design and weapon is awesome. When all this is over, it would be cool to get a prequel on team STRQ
To make someone like Raven a coward Salem must be more evil than we can even imagine
Waaaaaait
WAAAAAAIT
SHE USED HER SEMBLANCE, RAVEN! Remember how it works? She has one teleport for a one person, one for Tai, one for Yang, one for Qrow and I would assume one for Summer. BUT, to whom she teleported herself and Summer? Not to Tai or Yang or Qrow that’s for sure. So there is one person, that Ravens also familiar with and to whom she left one of her portals.
The writing here is beautiful
So Raven became who she is because she feels guilty about Summer's death?
damn the animation budget must be through the roof with that improvement
Summer traumatized Raven sm...
We need to know what happened to her
honestly this scene just makes me realize just how missused Raven kinda was since V5 finale, I love that we see her again but i'd love it even more if we atleast saw what happened after v5 still...
regardless i had a sneaking suspiscion that Raven feels the burden of Summer's death, probably even more than tai and qrow, and is obviously...coping in another way if you could not tell.
We will definitely see more of her. There just wasn't really a place for her in the Atlas arc.
0:39 The Lebon bump.
I’m hoping Raven returns someday and I really hope her and Yang can patch things up.
Interesting bit. When Summer tells Raven to “trust her” we can’t see her face.
I love Raven, and I don't care what anyone else says!