The Origins of Snow White
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- Опубликовано: 30 дек 2023
- Snow White is a very famous and popular folktale with numerous film adaptations, but what are its origins and what, if any, deeper meaning might it hold?
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In Greek mythology Chione ('Snow') is so fair Hermes puts her to sleep to lie with her and that same night Apollo disguises himself as an old woman for the same purpose. As a result she gives birth to twins: one who grows up to be a notorious thief like Hermes while the other becomes a handsome musician like Apollo. Later Chione boasts that she is fairer than Artemis and is slain by the jealous goddess for her pride.
Interesting.
Wow, what a story. It's basically the Snow White story. Only in the mythology she is assaulted.
@@honeybunch5765 The snow white story has been heavily sanitized of its pagan roots as one would expect given the time when it was first being told. It is derived from the Indo European founding myth/tradition. Every city /civilization had its founder and all of them have the back story of having been born from a princess rescued or otherwise accosted by a besotted god/"prince charming".
I'd love to learn more about this kind of stuff Armetis etc etc do you have any ideas ???
Where is their any uploads?
@@clioflano421 I really enjoyed listening to Stephen Fry read his books Mythos, Heroes and Troy. He really gives life to the Greek myths.
Also, theres the story of Demeter looking for her daughter who is stuck in the underworld being held by Hades.
Thats what the Spring/Underworld story reminded me of too.
tf Snow white story has anything to do some Greek myth?
@@varjovirta3085 Near the end of the video he gave a number of stories related to Spring/Underworld, and the Princess being imprisoned by the inhabitants of the underworld. Dwaves are said to live in the underworld as this video explained. This reminded me of the Hades/Persephone story.
Suddenly it make sence that Pluto is a dvarfplanet
Yes definitely a connection between seasonal Snow White & Greek Persephone daughter of Demeter.
But Persephone was an Orion constellation reference & Demeter the mother a Milky Way reference. Whereas evil queen/witch mother with magic mirror in Snow White story is an Orion constellation reference whereas sleeping Snow White in glass coffin is the Milky Way reference.
Looking into the origins of Eurpoean folktales and fairytales is so interesting! And the interconnectedness is immense, so it can be difficult to find one single origin myth or story.
The splinter in the finger in the Scottish tale is also found in an early version of 'Sleeping Beauty' called 'Sun, Moon and Talia'. Talia gets part of some flax lodged under her nail, which puts her to sleep until it's removed. That one is really dark compared to the modern version, including Disney's version, as she gives birth during her sleep. Symbolically it's really interesting, though!
Thank you for an interesting video! ❤
Yeah, it struck me that the first version of the Sigurd story he brought up sounded closer to Sleeping Beauty than Snow White. It kind of makes me think these were different versions of the exact same story that got mistaken as different stories entirely, because of the extreme differences in the level of detail.
@@MrChristianDTsounds like 'kill bill' 😅 nothing new under the sun eh
@@fion1flatout I think it's "kill bill" that sounds like it, no creativity
The meaning of name Thalia is in Greek : blossom, in Aramaic Talya : youth, and etymologically from Hebrew : dew of Jah ( Jehovah, the Almighty ).
In reality, Snow White was a story about the movements of the heavens - the central topic of most ancient faiths. Snow White is the Snow White Moon, who is followed in a line along the ecliptic by the seven dwarf planets.
Show White Moon was given a corset to make her thinner (the Waning Moon), until she appears to die (the New Moon), but then she is kissed by the Sun-prince (a Syzygy-Eclipse), so she wakes up and gets fatter (Waxing Moon), as if pregnant (Full Moon).
Note that the Moon does indeed get thinner and then ‘die’ as it approaches the Sun during a solar eclipse. The Moon is dark and dead, as it slips in front of the Sun in a cosmic embrace - a cosmic kiss.
R
Great video. Honouring and respecting our European cultural heritage is important. Thanks for this.
@@nekiyia what?
As a European I quite disagree.
@brightphoebus I couldn't agree more! This channel never disappoints.
@@user-ge8yn4ql4i Why?
Why do you hate yourself and your ancestors?@@user-ge8yn4ql4i
Snow White and the Huntsman is an underrated film adaptation
Charlize Theron a baddie
I liked it. It had a great premise. I was also an extra on set.
@@freyatilly Fr? That's really cool.
I like that one too
Currently on SciFi channel 😅
I don't know how this channel found me, but I'm so glad ☺️
I’m writing a screenplay for Snow White, and I can’t get into the plot too much, but I hope if this gets picked up (even if it has to be an indie-funded venture), those of you who follow this channel will be able to realize some of the cues. I’ve always felt there was some deeper, proto-Germanic and PIE echoes, and I hope my plot and premise does it justice. Fingers crossed I can get it across the finish line.
What is your logline?
Looking forward to it!
make you have snow white has a black trans
One can also interpret Snow White story through Gnostic Philosophy i.e. Snow White symbolises the immortal innocent Soul ( "Die Seele " in German which is a feminine word ) , the evil Step Mother represents soulless matter ( "Die Materie" a feminine word ) , the seven Dwarves represent crude natural elements .
I wont give a like because u have 7 likes right now lol.
Gnosticism is alien to native ways. Our traditions are world and life-affirming, not dualist.
@@EresirThe1st C.G Jung in his books (If I recall well " Anima -Animus , Archetypes" ..) discussed concerning this very matter .
seven dwarfs = seven sleepers, claudians, nicolaitans, Snow-white = Pompeia Paulina, Steph-mother = Agrippina minor, Grumpy = germanicus, Bashfull = L A Seneca, dipsy = dipper/baptist, sneezy & sleepy = twin ; Junias & Andronicus.
Pied piper = Germanicus, missed children of Hamelin compares to childmurder of
bethlehem = germanicus martyred twin-sons and heirs what overlaps with the 3
little piglets and big bad wolf = Seneca/ Simon the tanner = the old hunter.
Ultimately, anything can be rationalized into anything. Christianity conquered and destroyed traditional Europe this way, with the addition of actual persecution and occasional mass murder campaigns.
Fortress of Lugh. This is a very good video. Thank you for making it.❤ You should make a video about the origins of Little Red Riding Hood, it would be a great follow-up. I personally would love to see it. I love Germanic religion/mythology, folklore and fairy-tales you should make a series on Grimm's fairy-tales.
The ending of the tale, with Snow White's mother's punishment, reminds one of The Red Shoes story.
The Gold Tree/Silver Tree version sounds more like Sleeping Beauty to me. A pricked finger, a death like sleep, etc. But I guess Snow White & Sleeping Beauty are so similar that they most likely share origins. I had always assumed the evil stepmother trope in Fairy Tales had to do with all the grief & family strife caused by primogeniture. Since women often died in childbirth, it wasn't unusual for men to marry more than once especially if they were wealthy.
I love this story❤ It's a mix of Snow White where the stepmother is jealous, and Sleeping Beauty where the Princess sleeps for years and wakes up
I liked the Neil Gaiman short story take on Snow White as a vampire, with the stepmother as the hero. In it, Snow has killed her mother, and ultimately her father. But only the stepmother knew what Snow really was. Would definitely make sense with the ultra white skin and blood red lips, the deathlike sleep, etc.
Mr. Gaiman always delivers the creepy!
I like gaiman but that has nothing to do with Snow White and it's not Snow White, that's just another attempt to destroy traditional folk tales which have already suffered a lot in our modern world.
I hate these modern takes on classic folk tales. The subversion is not smart, it's lazy.
@@TheMountainBeyondTheWoods No, it's bloody smart. Snow white skin, blood red lips --- classic vamp.
@@Jumpoable I disagree, I don't think it's smart, I think it's lazy and extremely overdone.
Anything said against the new Snow White has been deemed racist so I will tread lightly here. I would much like to see Disney make a version of the tale based entirely on the Grimm’s writings, incorporating the Nordic/Germanic myths you discussed. The original movie played fast and loose with these elements. Stories based on the myths of one culture should stand on their own as just that. Stories from one culture.
Disney would absolutely not do this.
@johndavis6119 As a woman of both Latina and Germanic descent, I could not agree with you more! ❤️
@@ATLmodK I know. They have their own myths to perpetuate. I’m surprised the original did not have a large big eared mouse in it. I’m also surprised he did not appear in the Star Wars (Disney Wars to separate them from the real films) programming either.
The truth should never apoligise. Im not white but non white people Inhave seen with my own eyes are way more racist than any nazi revivalists I know...
Remember, the Grimm brothers themselves changed the stories to be more palatable to audiences of their day e.g. little red riding hood was eaten by the wolf and not saved, the being saved part was added by the Grimms. But of course Disney shouldn't change things to suit our audiences today. The Grimm fairytales have barely changed since they published them in 1812 because they were written down for the first time. Stories always change naturally over time.
The theme of an earth goddess with a beautiful daughter who goes or is taken into the underworld sounds a bit like Demeter and Persephone, doesn't it?
The breadth of your research is impressive. Thanks, Ronn
Excellent work, thanks for putting this together.
Snow white is the moon. The sun the prince. The seven dwarves the seven planets.
And the evil queen's the black hole!
only 5 ancient planets but add the 2 witnesses (twin) Heavens & Earth.
Snow white = andromeida (the flock, church), Prince = Perseus (christ).
Wicked queen = Cassiopeia (Sappharia), Old hunter = Cepheus (Ananias)
Snow White is the Milky Way, the prince as the green man is an Orion constellation reference as is most everything else in the story including the evil queen the woodsman and the seven dwarves. I think the number seven for the dwarves comes from viewing Orion constellation as 7 stars (2 hand, 2 feet, 3 on belt).
@@imeddo1708 indirectly it is connected with celestial images but the claudians are directly in the bible ( the 5 loaves and the 2 fishes ).
The 7 sleepers in the quran ( people of Ad = height ; the nazoreans ).
Grumpy = Paul = Germanicus = Imran ( the prosperous )
Bashful = Peter = LA Seneca = Harun ( the mountain or rock )
Sleepy & Sneezy = twin = Drusus JC & Nero JC ( pauls 2 relatives )
Dipsy = John the dipper or the baptizer ( the youngster )
The watchdog of the sleepers ; al Raqeem or Qitmeer = bashfull
Nazoreans, Nazerites from Mazzaroth = Zodiac
Twin = Gemini but also Pisces (the fishes), the 2 bears and 2 dogs (ursus, canis)
Paul as a constellation = Ophiuchus (the traveller and snake-handler).
No, in German (like in Old English and contrary to Latin languages) the sun is female and the moon is male
Thank you for another fascinating video.
Happy New Year!
Fascinating! Thank you! I enjoyed this so much!
All the Disney remakes are insults tbh.
The protagonist is always a laquisha.
@@PerceptionVsReality333cry harder ❄️
Mickey Mouse went into the public domain this morning if you guys are that mad about it lol
“Evil cannot create, it can only destroy” - Tolkein
So you do better.
As a French person, I was shocked by what the Disney studio made of the story of the hunchback of Notre-Dame. They could have created an unrelated story rather than abuse a French classic novel by Victor Hugo (Notre Dame de Paris is its original title) in such a ridiculous fashion. I have since boycotted anything from the Disney studio, but your comments about how they mistreat traditional tales resonate with me (what about the Little Mermaid of Hans C Andersen! Beauty and the Beast of Barbot de Villeneuve etc). They have a recipe for commercial success and plagiarise any well known and liked stories to fill their purse, unable to produce something original.
I loved the beautiful art, and your final summation of Snow White. Thank you for the video.
Snow White was one of my favorite fairytales as a child, and yet oddly i had little curiosity about its origins (and to this day I've still never watched the Disney movie!). Your entrancing video contains such rich food for thought I'll have to rewatch it and stop every minute to take notes! 😍
Loved this video and all the images it presented!
Terrific and delightful! Thank you very much for the research
This is my first contact with your videos, and I am quite impressed. I enjoyed the depth of your presentation. One element that makes it almost impossible to create a complete line is that all of these stories come out of oral traditions. Each telling of the story injects new details. What we see today is a spot on the trail of the myth. The brothers Grimm were among the first to capture the stories in written and printed state. I appreciate your presentation of trans European elements in this story. Thank you.
Very interesting and thought provoking
Thank you for this video
Thanks for the video and for the story of Goldtree, I had never heard of it. I also liked the angle that the story may have roots in the image of changing seasons
Greetings to you Kevin. I'm really enjoying the direction of the your current work. ✌️🌹😊
Thanks!
Thanks and happy New Year
Thank you. Very well done ❤
Curiosity got the better of me so I scanned your channel and the videos you have listed, after doing so I saved this video for easy access to what I presume will be many more interesting watches.
Outstanding! Many thanks.
Thank you for explaining this!
Thanks great video
Hey, I was just looking for something to watch. Good timing on the upload!
Salute to you, my friend. Have a great New Years
You too! Happy New Years Eve from Dixieland!
Awesome work 👍👏
It would be wonderful to see a movie of the Snow White tale incorporating some of these ancient magical elements.
Thank you so much. This was lovely.❤
I really appreciate the respect you showed for the original stories. Please make more of these videos. 🎉
Maria Sophia von Erthal, who is widely believed to be the inspiration for Snow White in the Grimm Brothers fairytale.
Thank-you for all the comparative research on this fairy tale, so interesting!
Very good video Kevin, thank you for all the knowledge you provide us. Look around guys, seems like more and more of us are awakening!
There is a storm coming, and when the storm is getting close the trees start to dance!
Very well put together. Intetesting research on the Germanic/Gaelic origins.
Outstanding history and storytelling such as Fortress of Lugh are wonderful reference points for each of us who are of Germanic, Celtic or other European stock and remind us of our deep history and indeed our continuing greatness.
Idk if I just have ADHD but I have to listen to this in 1.75 speed so I feel like I’m learning.
There are some striking awesome similarities on the start of Snow White and another rather furtherly gruesome oldest tale by the Grimm: The Junniper Tree, just that there the main-one involved is a young boy instead of a girl, but still there is a very evil stepmother which gets her proper doom at the end and a rebirth miracle happens too.
Beautiful visuals.
Its probly distorted how Aria ran away when she fought joffrey and was was mad at the hound cause she was only playing with her friend that started those events.
She had no reason to be mad at me! The stupid little girl!
I find the talking fish in that one version of the tale is neat
My uncle was a dwarf and he was a wrestler. He saved a girl, too, once, but they put him in jail for doing it wrong, I guess.
Can’t wait for the black panther remake with Matt Damon
Somebody call the waaaambulance for this guy
😂
@@xp8969surely you meant to say "call the bambalance" 😂
There are countless movies and TV shows of Snow White with White or White passing actresses. Do you think one or two version of someone who is mixed is going to destroy the original story's origin?
I don't know about you, but I still think Ghangis Khan don't like like John Wayne or Buddha looking like Keanue Reeve.
😂@@BaltimoresBerzerker nope, that makes zero sense, read my comment again and use your brain this time and hopefully you'll be able to figure it out
7:07 when he mentioned the seven mountains I couldn’t help but think of the seven hills of Rome
an interesting thought, if the story came with the invading Roman armies.
the early versions, not the Disney version, were my favourite, mum had to read the Ladybird book version every night, i remember her coughing the apple up as they carry her coffin, there is another legend 'the Juniper tree' that is similar with a boy in it who is white as snow and black as ebony.
The boy in the story is just white as snow and red as blood.
As you first mentioned the blood on the snow, I wondered if you would connect the Deirdre story.
Thank you so much for this level of scholarship on this topic; I found it most enlightening and just what I had been hoping to find. A little contribution I might make, as an archaeologist, is to contrast the desire of early folklorists…you refer to this as seen in the Grimm Brothers…to somehow work their way back to some pure “un corrupted “ source that attached itself to the idea of some pure un corrupted “strain” of people with archaeology complicating that search considerably. Maritime trade between Britain and Ireland is attested by well excavated stratified finds,of Irish stone tools in Scotland with pretty Clearly Neolithic dates attached….so 3000 BC…? All fascinating. Thanks thanks so much.
When Julius Caesar was still a young man, Sulla became a dictator of Rome. He called Caesar before him, and was at first impressed by him. But he said one day this young man might grow to be a threat. When he felt that day had come, he ordered Pompei to hunt Caesar down and bring back his heart as a trophy to prove he had been killed. Pompei found Caesar, but in the moment felt he could not kill him after all, and instead brought Sulla the heart of a boar. Caesar fled across the sea to Bithynia, where he stayed in the king's palace, becoming his lover. He was later mocked with the accusation he was the bottom in that relationship, which is actually likely.
So it is interesting that Germanic people would come to tell a story of a princess whose mother or stepmother felt she was a threat and tried to have her killed by having her organs removed and brought to her. And that she would then flee to another court or across the sea. The Celts and the Germanic tribes both had not only contact with Rome but with Caesar himself. They would not need to have heard this story to come up with the story of Snow White, since it does have elements of ancient acrhetypes, magic, and mythology. But it is still interesting to think about.
Amazing great presentation. Makes me think cs lewis must have known much about mythology considering the narnia tale is about the light and warmth banishing the long winter
Since he was besties with Tolkien probably yes.
So basically Snow White is the Germanic version of the Greek goddess of the seasons Persephone, daughter of Demeter and Zeus. When she eats a pomegranate, she finds she must marry Hades, and spend half the year in the Underworld with him, creating winter. When she returns to this world for the other half of the year, we have spring and summer.
I live near Athelstan's Wood, which belongs to the Duchy of Cornwall to this day, but was pledged to the Duke of Medina Sidonia if the Spanish Armada had resulted in the conquest of England. The name was born by an English king and also a Bishop of Hereford - and there was also a Bishop Cantilupe. That's an English name with Norman roots meaning "Wolf's song" (toponym from a place so remote and wild that wolves were heard there).
BTW, IIRC Beowulf wasn't English, he was a Geat from what is now northern Germany.
As a student of Old English it makes me happy to hear someone pronounce the "thorn" letter correctly instead of as "d"
Excellent and fascinating fairytale lore. It’s so interesting how many of these tales appear in many cultures all over the world. The Cinderella type tale turns up in Sub-Saharan Africa, China, and even Northeastern Native American stories. I’ve subscribed. Thanks so much. :) 🧚🏻🧚🏽
I assume from this that all of Grimms stories have a very ancient origin.
a lot tales. Hell even phrases like a" cat with 9 lives" there is a tale of a witch that transforms into a cat 9 times Scottish or Irish mythology.
You'd think if you got roofied that many times, you'd have your guard up for random objects from weird strangers.
I am so thrown off, now that I am aware that the dwarves in the Disney film are dressed like Finno-Baltic Pagan priests.
Will there be more videos on the dark origins of fairy tales.
Disney remaking Snow White as brown is very insulting.....but mainly because if this was done in reverse, if a story of dark complected girl was appropriated white....we are all well aware of who would be throwing a damn hissy fit.
If not for that, nobody would give a damn .
Thanks for this interesting dive into the Snow White mythology.
I was surprised tho, to see no mention of obvious parallels with Demeter-Persephone myth: in which also the Daughter disappears into the Underworld, then seasonally re-emerges, bringing back fruitfulness to the world.
Except in that version, it's the man-suitor-would-be-husband who abducts & imprisons the Daughter; & her Mother who mourns her & won't rest until she's rescued / liberated.
Sneewitta was a real life person as were and still are the dwarves of the ore mountains south of the seven peak range.
*"from there grew the cycle of the seed and the sickle and the dance of the seasons, and the birds in their flight"*
musical, Hades Town
I prefer the old tales to the movies.
When I was a small kid, my Mom would often read these tales from the Grimm Brothers book, especially when I had a flu. So being sick as a kid was not so bad though.
Dwarves merging with stone made me picture Dwarves becoming giant golems to defend their homes.
The version of snow white we read as dutch children stil had the blood in the snow and the part where she wants a daughter with skin as white as snow and it's so important to the story I don't know why they didn't think skin tone would matter. Even if you are determined to race swap her at least use an asian beauty, who have all those characteristrics.
I always thought snow white was about the devouring mother archetype, but this seasonal explanation makes alot of sense too
This situation in varying degrees of savagery occur in all of our cultures and ethnicities. Humans regardless of ethnicity are hardwired to resent the offspring of their partners ex. This is a cycle to be recognized and consciously broken, rather than fought over who claims it like a national treasure. None of you were outcast and abused and ostracized by a step parent?
The more he talked about it the more it sounded like a reimagining of the story of Persephone where Hades is the good guy and Demeter is evil
This was awesome. Do other fairy tales OR AESOPS FABLES. I Loved those
I grew up with 'Sneeuwitje' as a child in Amsterdam back in the 1940's Cool to learn the metaphors and icon passing through the ages
I read years ago that Snow White hearkens back to human sacrifice practiced by Germanic tribes to either bring the harvest or the spring.
The connection you imply with Persephone and Demeter is fascinating. Demeter isn’t portrayed as jealous or murderous as such, but as psychologically unable to let go of her daughter and permit her to have her own being, which is not so different. You imply, I think, that this relates to the fullness of the harvest season being unwilling to yield its glory to the next generation/year. The seeds (/daughters) go into the ground (/underworld) in the autumn to eacape the domineering mother, lie dormant there in a mystical half-alive state for half a year, then emerge fresh and green in the Spring as the new year takes over from the old one.
I hadn’t made this connection before, about the mother being the old year passing away unwillingly as her beauty fades.
Definitely feels like a gut-level observation by ancestral story-tellers about the tension and violence inherent to reproduction, the love for offspring as intertwined in some ghastly way with the raging against one’s own death that new life necessitates, drawing parallels between the human experience of this and the same patterns seen elsewhere in nature, looking for ways to find peace and order among these conflicting elements.
Thank you for your work. Always stimulating.
I think it comes from the same tradition as the necromantic stories when a woman is raised from the dead. Odin does this for eg.
That's quite the tall fire
Interesting to cover many different evolutions and corruptions of the story as it moved around in place and time but drawing the line at one specific one 🤔
Thanks
Thank you and happy New Year
In a more "realistic" approach the story could be set in the european bronze age. The queen gets a new mirror made of silver to see herself more clearly. Now she can compare herself to Snow White and gets upset. Snow White has to flee and eventually finds refuge at a community of short heightened miners, as the hard work reduces growth. I'm still wondering about the apple being the danger. But i guess in those times healthy food was rare and expensive and for the elites.
Thank you Kevin
WELL DONE....
If anything it's most likely a mystery school myth especially if it ties into the underworld.. innana went through 7 gates to escape the underworld, Orpheus has the lyre with it's 7 strings, you'll find the numbers 12 and 7 in every mystery school myths as it will always refer to the 7 planets and the zodiac and more importantly what they represent in you
I’ve always found the story of Snow White and Sigur and Gunther and Brune, Hilda fascinating, especially when I the book written by Edith Hamilton, concerning her collection mythological fails tails
I'm a granny now but I still hunger for a good fairytale. Thank you.
Could the dwarfs or dwarves be earlier actual hominins?
famous 7 : claudians, nicolaitans comparing to the fallen angels (lost boys)
I'd bet on it. I say Dwarves are based on Neanderthals.
Interesting. The three drops of blood on the snow accur also in Perceval of Chrétien de Troyes in the late 12th century where the hero meditates on his beloved. It may have been a topos in medieval stories transmitted from one to the other with no clear relations of the stories themselves.
the 3 little piglets, are the sons/men of Cornelius send to the Tanner (Albinus).
2 innocents martyred (twin), 1 assassinated (caligula) ; 3 spoiled drops of blood.
nice
Has anyone heard of the fairy tale Sleeping Beauty?
It is said that her father remarried because he thinks his daughter should have a mother. Sleeping Beauty's father was of royal blood.
But the stepmother (in married queen). Was a sorceress who treated her stepdaughter badly. On her 16th birthday, she was supposed to stick herself on a rock that spins wool into yarn. and sleep for 100 years. A prince came and kissed her and she woke up. They married and lived happily.
The idea of a mother who gave birth wanting their own offspring dead seems beyond callous which is why they usually depict the queen as the evil stepmother instead not that stepmothers are necessary evil but is a degree of separation that makes the story more convincing and palatable as well.
Step moms CAN BE pretty evil, a few are not.
@karamlevi
Umm I just said that I've got no idea why are you repeating it...
It would be interesting to compare the tales of Snow White and theSleeping Beauty
Disney is dead time has stopped nothing can be recognized anymore there is nothing new just broken materialism.
The Grimm tales were orally preserved in Old German and other cultures for centuries. They only wrote them down.
We could also add that the mother wanting to kill her daughter and the subsequent killing of the mother is a typical Freudian theme from the Oedipus complex if you look at it from a psychological point of view, it comes from the universal affective and psychological development of children.
Instead of a remake. They should make a direct sequel. Start right at the end of the first movie. Snow White says to the prince, I'm sorry but I'm in love with someone else. Then she runs the grumpy and asks him to marry her