I knew adding proper Ackermann steering would make the steering soooo much better. The next thing, after you sort the suspension, would be to tune the brakes so the wheels don't lock every time you tap the button. Yeah, toe out means you grab turns faster, but that can lead to oversteer. Toe in is better for straight line stability, but leads to understeer as a side effect. When you add suspension, you will have to remember that during roll conditions the wheels will change road contact depending VERY MUCH on the geometry of the arms. Wikipedia had some good diagrams for camber angle based on different control arm geometries. All camber will do on a machine with no suspension is reduce the contact patch. The only reason we even care on IRL cars is because the suspension has movement does not provide a perfect circle of motion, simply due to limitations of space, really.
This game really reminds me of building RC cars out of Lego Technic. The building system with the ball joints, axles, blocks, gears, motors etc. It's just so similar but it's a videogame so unlimited resources which is nice.
A lot of the parts look like copies of Lego pieces too, I’m going to download the demo of this, I might try to make some of those mechanisms like the CVTs with diffs that are possible with Technic.
If you want to be able to camber without affecting toe you should probably have your upper and lower control arms be pistons that work in opposite directions. This will also probably become relevant if you decide to add drive axles to the front as the way you're cambering now is changing the wheel's distance from the car which would require the axle to extend and contract when you change camber.
as someone with only a mild amount of car knowledge, I wonder why don't all market vehicles come with a slight camber by default? It's something I've thought about for like a year unironically It would help with traction when cornering and people could just flip their tires around instead of buying whole new ones every time, and to my understanding there's not many downsides up to a certain point
There is a ball joint piston you can use instead of the hinge piston. I'd also recommend getting the node skip angle packs on the workshop for easy angled builds
I love the gearblocks videos!!! I love this game but I’m an idiot when it comes to mechanical stuff, so I learn from your videos!! Thanks master teacher Kan😂
17:00 I saw this issue when you where first building it and in my head I was like “he’ll realize it’s wrong in like 15 minutes”. And then 15 minutes later on the dot you noticed it🤣. I’m either a lucky guesser or maybe I’m starting to know you too well. Either way that was awesome.
Please do more Gearblocks! I love this game and I love cars and I have always had a knack for engineering, so your videos on this game are very enjoyable and i look every day to see if you uploaded another video on this game. its genuinely an addiction I love this game so much.
Big thing that would help would be a solid drag link for your steering assembly to help get rid of thst glitch. But definitely one thing thats huring you is the lack of caster not letting the inside wheel lay over properly when turning
I've had the same problem that you're having with that front left with my valve gear tests, even though I'm using static bars. It seems like it's a bit of an intrinsic problem with Gearblocks, and I have no doubt you'll be seeing it crop up again soon. That being said, I'm loving these videos kAN!
Ideal would be a ball joint on both ends of the toe adjust cylinder, when you camber the steering knuckle raises and lowers down, which is probably what bugs out the pin at the back of the toe cylinder when you shorten it... when you lengthen the toe cylinders the angle of that pin joint at the steer rack is less severe, but when you shorten it the angle becomes severe enough to bug it out.
Instead of using the stewing rack, can use a servo like the Tamia cars, and the distance from the servo center distance and Lance length of the servo arm can be adjusted for under and oversteer while turning... And tilting the turning joints backwards will give camber when turning
In the parts under connections there are ball and socket joint connectors and ball and sockets joints on axles. The socket on an axle is what you need to connect a piston with a ball connection to the steering arm.
Next, suspension. BUT, you should also give it caster angle, it helps to change the camber angle during cornering, and give you more traction on that inner tire which with camber now, has little to none traction during coners
i just built a car with adjustable suspension and camber in scrap mechanic, its called "l 3.0" on the workshop. love your vids and would love to see some more scrap mechanic.
My understanding is that you need a ball joint (or something to provide the same flexibility) on both sides of the steering linkage as currently it is not always going to be parallel to the frame.
I'm not an expert, so I thought Ackermann would come from shifting the point where the steering rack connects to the steering pushrods (or more specifically, the length of those steering pushrods). The fact that the pushrods are behind the front wheel already gives you the slightest bit of Ackermann angle. And then by shortening them aggressively, you could increase that Ackermann angle - in theory. The problem in practice would probably be that that would increase the probability of the front wheel flipping over, as it happened in your test drives.
I think you might have gotten rid of more understeer if the back tires were either brought in or the front brought out, as they were uneven the whole vid. I think you should see if you could make a four wheel drive chain not sure if there are terain maps in game but it could be a fun experiment. Also how multiple of those engines on a vehicle could work together to get more horsepower. Idk honestly just spitballing here great vid btw
Acherman geometry reduces tyre scrubbing among other things, and toe angle has a good impact when cornering, toe in is more stable in a straight line, but toe out will make it better in corners (watch out for oversteer) It’s nice to see it has a real effect in this game, I’d like to see if castor angle has any effect too once suspension is added.
Suspensions would definitely help, but : - try to use different lengths of A arms, it has to do with bodyroll (there's a vid called "Double wishbone suspension geometry" by Vatsal Jain wich explains it) -Camber is usefull when bodyroll happens (so when you turn/brake), to make the outer wheels (who receive all the load with inertia) make full contact with the road. It didn't in your lasts attempts because there's no bodyroll so it understeered a lot, that's why toe was more usefull. - The way the pistons are set up is great but you definitely need to put some screen or something to show the angles !
Most cars/trucks want about .2 degrees of toe out in the front .1out in the back. .5-1 degrees of negitive camber in the rear. The front is happy with 1 degree of negative camber. The caster is a big one for stability 5-8 degrees of positive caster. TOOT, Toe out on turns, is how I learned of the ackermann angle.
add suspension on all wheels, make the toe and camber piston link on a ball joint to avoid glitches, add visual thingies to see the angles on all settings, bigger wheel (wider tbh), voila you have a formula 1 car.
Try to add a front bar to the steering system with just 1 piston instead of the 2 in the steering arm that don't have much resistance to the steering problem in the end
the camber piston needs a ball hinge at the side of the wheel because it currently tries to keep the wheel perpendicular to the piston wich caused the camber to not work
Sinds the adjustable steering angles in Scrap Mechanic I used exact steering angles on all steering bearings. Makes a huge difference in Scrap Mechanic so I bet it will here too
Id like to make a monstrosity of pushrods, cantilevers and keybinded servos that automatically adjust suspention geometry and reactivity depending on what the car is doing, ie high/low speed steering, braking, accelerating, cruising; like an f1 car except analog control instead of a digital control system. Im sure itd wiegh alot but itd def b cool
ok, so heres a tip i learned when building my drift car chassis you can get castor angle by moving the lower and uper ball joints seperately kinda hard with the existing suspension bits but most people make custom suspension parts anyways edit: also, attachment bridging is gonna help i think
so, like, could a lego technic set (these have interesting solutions for steering and suspension, sometimes) be replicated, and driven around, or...? like this dune duster (8207) set from 1996 (totally not the very first lego technic set I ever owned back in the day as a kid, no siree)
you're steering is going crazy because shortening the tie rods lets the rack over extend, pulling the knuckle past the tipping point. You would need something to limit the steering angle to prevent it.
Have you thought about doing caster? The a angle you talked about is a must. The camber should change as you turn the wheel to make the inside and outside of the tire have a different effective diameter
@@Steinersgarage in game or IRL? Usually I see adjustable Carter on traditional double arm or even 5link solid axles. (Irl). If you can make the control arm upper or lower attach at one of the two frame points you could get a little caster that way. Or with two control arms make the upper or lower able to move fore and aft. Even if it's not adjustable can you mount the upper and lower arms in different blocks? In truth I need to check this game out. I found myself here from hyces chanel. This looks pretty cool. Sorry for typos or nonsense. Super tired and long day. Now enjoying a little refreshment haha
in game. but yeah almost anything you can think of works in this game. so i defiently recommend it. ive been in the gearblocks community for about 7 years. and im so happy it finally got the attention it deserves!@@bobbysenterprises3220
Without suspension you're still just driving on the very edge of the tires so understeer is a given. You need suspension to allow the car to roll and stand the inside tire up and grip.
kAN be like: ideally this would be a ball joint... Me watching: ummm, ball joint + axel part? Use it? So if I'm not mistaken, toe-in should give you more straight line stability while toe-out gives better cornering right? Something to do with how the wheels are pulled at high speeds. P.s. you can use the fact that there are 2 slots for keybinds to build a cheeky 3 speed selectable gearbox. 1 toggles ratio 1 on and 2 and 3 off, 2 toggles 2 on and 1 and 3 off, 3 toggles 3 on and 1 and 2 off.
In cars without suspension camber is completly unnecesary. Car body doesn't lean in corners, so you don't have to tilt tire to improve grip. You only decrasing surface area of tire decreasing your grip overall. So untill you build suspension, don't add any camber. I think caster will be pointless too, because steering is powered by servo, maybe it will make a tiny difference if any. If I think correctly, caster with car without suspension might even decrase grip in corners, because steering column is tilted, which means that contact patch of tire will decrase while turning At the moment only toe is probably makeing visible difference, and of course Ackerman
Suspension will allow the inside wheel to correct for more positive camber and give better tire contact. Camber on a fixed chassis doesn't work. Have you thought about a castor adjustment to help with steering centering???
Are the brakes adjustable between the front and rear wheels? Since the front brakes are supposed to provide stopping power and rear brakes have less stopping force to help provide stability
caster angle?? usually, i build and drift with the wheels not going back straight after pressing a steering key but thats from another game. dont know if its possible in this game
I think you could steer better if you smoothed your steering input, the keyboard input is throwing the steering too far too quickly and not allowing the car to shift its weight and break traction. Maybe if you slowed the steering motor down it would give you more precision without sacrificing your max steering angle? Also Caster angle would be an interesting subject on the matter of steering, as it affects the steering's tendency to return to center! Looking forward to what you do with suspension in this game
actually you should use camber and suspension together, camber itself is uneffective. very good content anyway, i really liked it (i'm a mechanical and vehicle engineer)
Technically you have reverse Ackerman because your inside wheels are turning more .for normal Ackerman steering you want your outside wheel to turn more because there is more weight when turning on that outside wheel because more weight on the wheel means more grip, that's what they do in f1 cars there outside wheel turn more because more weight are on them
What part of the vehicle should we work on next?
gearbox
Uhhh, kAN... You misspelled Ackermann in the title..
Engine, seeing it run as you build up the car more and more would be cool, since you already have the start of suspension and gears
Airbags
Meant to say diff, not transmission
Please do much more of this game. There's not enough good content online.
Agreed
Agreed
Agreed
Agreed
Agreed
I knew adding proper Ackermann steering would make the steering soooo much better. The next thing, after you sort the suspension, would be to tune the brakes so the wheels don't lock every time you tap the button.
Yeah, toe out means you grab turns faster, but that can lead to oversteer. Toe in is better for straight line stability, but leads to understeer as a side effect. When you add suspension, you will have to remember that during roll conditions the wheels will change road contact depending VERY MUCH on the geometry of the arms. Wikipedia had some good diagrams for camber angle based on different control arm geometries.
All camber will do on a machine with no suspension is reduce the contact patch. The only reason we even care on IRL cars is because the suspension has movement does not provide a perfect circle of motion, simply due to limitations of space, really.
This game really reminds me of building RC cars out of Lego Technic. The building system with the ball joints, axles, blocks, gears, motors etc. It's just so similar but it's a videogame so unlimited resources which is nice.
Lego is the only resion why i kind of understand this
A lot of the parts look like copies of Lego pieces too, I’m going to download the demo of this, I might try to make some of those mechanisms like the CVTs with diffs that are possible with Technic.
I also noticed that too
If you want to be able to camber without affecting toe you should probably have your upper and lower control arms be pistons that work in opposite directions. This will also probably become relevant if you decide to add drive axles to the front as the way you're cambering now is changing the wheel's distance from the car which would require the axle to extend and contract when you change camber.
as someone with only a mild amount of car knowledge, I wonder why don't all market vehicles come with a slight camber by default? It's something I've thought about for like a year unironically
It would help with traction when cornering and people could just flip their tires around instead of buying whole new ones every time, and to my understanding there's not many downsides up to a certain point
There is a ball joint piston you can use instead of the hinge piston. I'd also recommend getting the node skip angle packs on the workshop for easy angled builds
you dont need a workshop pack for node skipping. its super easy to do.
I love the gearblocks videos!!! I love this game but I’m an idiot when it comes to mechanical stuff, so I learn from your videos!! Thanks master teacher Kan😂
17:00 I saw this issue when you where first building it and in my head I was like “he’ll realize it’s wrong in like 15 minutes”. And then 15 minutes later on the dot you noticed it🤣. I’m either a lucky guesser or maybe I’m starting to know you too well. Either way that was awesome.
You should also put caster angle man, it helps a lot with camber
This is awesome, much better than the cosmetic stuff
Please do more Gearblocks! I love this game and I love cars and I have always had a knack for engineering, so your videos on this game are very enjoyable and i look every day to see if you uploaded another video on this game. its genuinely an addiction I love this game so much.
Big thing that would help would be a solid drag link for your steering assembly to help get rid of thst glitch. But definitely one thing thats huring you is the lack of caster not letting the inside wheel lay over properly when turning
I've had the same problem that you're having with that front left with my valve gear tests, even though I'm using static bars. It seems like it's a bit of an intrinsic problem with Gearblocks, and I have no doubt you'll be seeing it crop up again soon. That being said, I'm loving these videos kAN!
This is a really neat way to show someone basic vehicle suspension alignment. Like from a tech to customer or friend
If you had told me I was going to watch a man adjust his camber toe for half an hour earlier today i could not have believed him.
loving the content, need to hear more about these drift cars you speak of
Suspension geometry is gonna be insane
Ideal would be a ball joint on both ends of the toe adjust cylinder, when you camber the steering knuckle raises and lowers down, which is probably what bugs out the pin at the back of the toe cylinder when you shorten it... when you lengthen the toe cylinders the angle of that pin joint at the steer rack is less severe, but when you shorten it the angle becomes severe enough to bug it out.
Instead of using the stewing rack, can use a servo like the Tamia cars, and the distance from the servo center distance and Lance length of the servo arm can be adjusted for under and oversteer while turning...
And tilting the turning joints backwards will give camber when turning
In the parts under connections there are ball and socket joint connectors and ball and sockets joints on axles. The socket on an axle is what you need to connect a piston with a ball connection to the steering arm.
Maybe a video on your RC cars? Its so cool you are in the hobby too!
ohh you actually did it i asked the last video for it
I feel like every time you explain something, my brain grows larger
Need to be able to rotate the knuckles on this so when you turn the outside lifts and the inside drops. That's Kingpin Angle, I think.
Next, suspension. BUT, you should also give it caster angle, it helps to change the camber angle during cornering, and give you more traction on that inner tire which with camber now, has little to none traction during coners
I think the camber angle would make a bigger difference with working suspension. Would love to see what you do with it
i just built a car with adjustable suspension and camber in scrap mechanic, its called "l 3.0" on the workshop. love your vids and would love to see some more scrap mechanic.
toe in keeps it tracking straight. toe out is what you'd want for drifting
My understanding is that you need a ball joint (or something to provide the same flexibility) on both sides of the steering linkage as currently it is not always going to be parallel to the frame.
I'm not an expert, so I thought Ackermann would come from shifting the point where the steering rack connects to the steering pushrods (or more specifically, the length of those steering pushrods). The fact that the pushrods are behind the front wheel already gives you the slightest bit of Ackermann angle. And then by shortening them aggressively, you could increase that Ackermann angle - in theory.
The problem in practice would probably be that that would increase the probability of the front wheel flipping over, as it happened in your test drives.
after your last video, i managed to build a centerfugal clutch based 3 speed auto transmission
I think you might have gotten rid of more understeer if the back tires were either brought in or the front brought out, as they were uneven the whole vid. I think you should see if you could make a four wheel drive chain not sure if there are terain maps in game but it could be a fun experiment. Also how multiple of those engines on a vehicle could work together to get more horsepower. Idk honestly just spitballing here great vid btw
Acherman geometry reduces tyre scrubbing among other things, and toe angle has a good impact when cornering, toe in is more stable in a straight line, but toe out will make it better in corners (watch out for oversteer) It’s nice to see it has a real effect in this game, I’d like to see if castor angle has any effect too once suspension is added.
Suspensions would definitely help, but :
- try to use different lengths of A arms, it has to do with bodyroll (there's a vid called "Double wishbone suspension geometry" by Vatsal Jain wich explains it)
-Camber is usefull when bodyroll happens (so when you turn/brake), to make the outer wheels (who receive all the load with inertia) make full contact with the road. It didn't in your lasts attempts because there's no bodyroll so it understeered a lot, that's why toe was more usefull.
- The way the pistons are set up is great but you definitely need to put some screen or something to show the angles !
Most cars/trucks want about .2 degrees of toe out in the front .1out in the back. .5-1 degrees of negitive camber in the rear. The front is happy with 1 degree of negative camber. The caster is a big one for stability 5-8 degrees of positive caster. TOOT, Toe out on turns, is how I learned of the ackermann angle.
i want to see more of this game!
bro stance goes crazy on this one
Bought this yesterday, and took me an hour to make suspension lol, i dont know why it took so long. but hurt my brain in the process
amazing that this game exists
Weight distribution and transfer are very important as well.
add suspension on all wheels, make the toe and camber piston link on a ball joint to avoid glitches, add visual thingies to see the angles on all settings, bigger wheel (wider tbh), voila you have a formula 1 car.
Try to add a front bar to the steering system with just 1 piston instead of the 2 in the steering arm that don't have much resistance to the steering problem in the end
i think that making fixed toe and camber may be really hard, because you need quite precise angles and doing it with block will be hard
Its only a matter of time before someone builds a realistic f1 car😂
the side of the piston attached to the steering rack was not allowed to pivot up and down causing the "suspension glitch"
I'm very curious if Kan can make a piston engine in this game, because having a fully built car would be sick to see.
its not possible unless he had some mod that added sensors that interact with piston things
Crazy
You need caster angle for the steering to self correct
having the front lower like u did introduces castor aswell btw
In this video, kAN messes around with and plays with his toe.
I really would like to figure out how those motion curves were designed for the different steering angles.
the camber piston needs a ball hinge at the side of the wheel because it currently tries to keep the wheel perpendicular to the piston wich caused the camber to not work
Man i love so much
Can you make a suspension system like what they have on the Citroen 2cv?
YAAAAAY KAN! 😊
Would love roo see a 4 link suspension build.
Nerd.
Kidding! Love the vids Kan!
Sinds the adjustable steering angles in Scrap Mechanic I used exact steering angles on all steering bearings. Makes a huge difference in Scrap Mechanic so I bet it will here too
Id like to make a monstrosity of pushrods, cantilevers and keybinded servos that automatically adjust suspention geometry and reactivity depending on what the car is doing, ie high/low speed steering, braking, accelerating, cruising; like an f1 car except analog control instead of a digital control system. Im sure itd wiegh alot but itd def b cool
So you can just add a 3rd ball joint to the knuckle using a ball joint axle thats 1 in length.
ok, so heres a tip i learned when building my drift car chassis
you can get castor angle by moving the lower and uper ball joints seperately
kinda hard with the existing suspension bits but most people make custom suspension parts anyways
edit: also, attachment bridging is gonna help i think
Well, that escalated quickly from the last episode
This game makes mechanics better than real life. Just gotta make it bullet proof because your design is unlikely strong enough
so, like, could a lego technic set (these have interesting solutions for steering and suspension, sometimes) be replicated, and driven around, or...? like this dune duster (8207) set from 1996 (totally not the very first lego technic set I ever owned back in the day as a kid, no siree)
you're steering is going crazy because shortening the tie rods lets the rack over extend, pulling the knuckle past the tipping point. You would need something to limit the steering angle to prevent it.
I did an adjustable anti squat and anti dive suspension system
didn't the wheel jam into the piston when you camber? maybe that caused it to pull to the right.
you shouldve connected the tie rod as a sideways socket axle and change the linear actuator rod to the one with the ball on the end
When kAN breaks his wheel geometry I keep thinking back to Arthur Morgan and his "I broke the goddamn wheel"
Hi what geometery put steering wheel in straight position after turning?
Please build piston engine too for car plus you said in video.
You know the camera has 3 settings? 1st-person, 3rd-person free rotate, and 3rd-person follow which stays right behind you even while driving
Have you thought about doing caster? The a angle you talked about is a must. The camber should change as you turn the wheel to make the inside and outside of the tire have a different effective diameter
caster is easier to do in a mcpherson suspension setup
@@Steinersgarage in game or IRL? Usually I see adjustable Carter on traditional double arm or even 5link solid axles. (Irl). If you can make the control arm upper or lower attach at one of the two frame points you could get a little caster that way. Or with two control arms make the upper or lower able to move fore and aft. Even if it's not adjustable can you mount the upper and lower arms in different blocks? In truth I need to check this game out. I found myself here from hyces chanel. This looks pretty cool.
Sorry for typos or nonsense. Super tired and long day. Now enjoying a little refreshment haha
in game. but yeah almost anything you can think of works in this game. so i defiently recommend it. ive been in the gearblocks community for about 7 years. and im so happy it finally got the attention it deserves!@@bobbysenterprises3220
Without suspension you're still just driving on the very edge of the tires so understeer is a given. You need suspension to allow the car to roll and stand the inside tire up and grip.
We are getting closer and closer to active suspension.
Is there cv joints in gearblocks or ist it only universal joints
You should deffinetly try out besiege, it's super fun :)
Try to make adjustable suspension stiffness. Not sure if possible, but maybe?
A brute force method of fixing the geometry, which I'm unsure of, would be to mirror it on either side of the wheel.
kAN be like: ideally this would be a ball joint...
Me watching: ummm, ball joint + axel part? Use it?
So if I'm not mistaken, toe-in should give you more straight line stability while toe-out gives better cornering right? Something to do with how the wheels are pulled at high speeds.
P.s. you can use the fact that there are 2 slots for keybinds to build a cheeky 3 speed selectable gearbox. 1 toggles ratio 1 on and 2 and 3 off, 2 toggles 2 on and 1 and 3 off, 3 toggles 3 on and 1 and 2 off.
In cars without suspension camber is completly unnecesary. Car body doesn't lean in corners, so you don't have to tilt tire to improve grip.
You only decrasing surface area of tire decreasing your grip overall. So untill you build suspension, don't add any camber.
I think caster will be pointless too, because steering is powered by servo, maybe it will make a tiny difference if any.
If I think correctly, caster with car without suspension might even decrase grip in corners, because steering column is tilted, which means that contact patch of tire will decrase while turning
At the moment only toe is probably makeing visible difference, and of course Ackerman
“And now we can play with our toes”
Suspension will allow the inside wheel to correct for more positive camber and give better tire contact. Camber on a fixed chassis doesn't work. Have you thought about a castor adjustment to help with steering centering???
Are the brakes adjustable between the front and rear wheels? Since the front brakes are supposed to provide stopping power and rear brakes have less stopping force to help provide stability
He doesn't have any front brakes currently, but I was just about to recommend he try messing with brake bias as well! Good thinking
I am looking forward to front brakes
caster angle??
usually, i build and drift with the wheels not going back straight after pressing a steering key but thats from another game. dont know if its possible in this game
I think you could steer better if you smoothed your steering input, the keyboard input is throwing the steering too far too quickly and not allowing the car to shift its weight and break traction. Maybe if you slowed the steering motor down it would give you more precision without sacrificing your max steering angle? Also Caster angle would be an interesting subject on the matter of steering, as it affects the steering's tendency to return to center! Looking forward to what you do with suspension in this game
FYI the wheels have brakes built in so no need for the extra brakes on the axels:):)
9:19 When someone tickles your neck
I should camber the wheels on my Fairlady Z, shouldn't I?
actually you should use camber and suspension together, camber itself is uneffective. very good content anyway, i really liked it (i'm a mechanical and vehicle engineer)
Make a Drift Car in GearBlocks
You need to build a drift car now
So split diff? Planetary gears?
Imagine if this game adds aerodynamics
Technically you have reverse Ackerman because your inside wheels are turning more .for normal Ackerman steering you want your outside wheel to turn more because there is more weight when turning on that outside wheel because more weight on the wheel means more grip, that's what they do in f1 cars there outside wheel turn more because more weight are on them
you should try to build some engines and old timey cars
With this it’s possible to make cars characters
👍🏽
could you try making a FF car set up (front wheel drive) or even a 4WD
You talking about under- and oversteer made me think about aero instead of what you did.