EDIT: Thanks to the comment section we know the newest setting in the Lynx firmware, “CrA Lu” set to 100 makes the pedals behave like the s22! Watching this footage back it really seems like the wheel is always shifting to the calibrated point regardless of wheel orientation and then slowly correcting to the set pedal angle. It’s like the wheel has no idea that it has turned so the pedals are a mirror image of what they should be, then it slowly corrects. Flat pedal riders may never experience this but as you can see the s22 does not have this flaw.
Was the angle from calibration set to netural durring the calibration? It shouldn't matter but it might. I've heard the bad pedal feel could be a few things: Bad dc-dc giving a dirty voltage rail to the controller and in turn the gyro. A poor quality/unsuitable gyro. A bad gyro filter(software) that has a long averaging problem (vesc has different filters and settings for each and they each give different outputs when setup wrong). Bad software/fw.
Dode... that's so right. That's always pissing me off on series of jumps with Lynx and Sherman-S (i have both). I have also S22 Pro - that never happens on on KS firmware, it's just not enough powerwise though. 😮💨😮💨
The fix is already in the latest firmware. Try playing with the "CrA Lu" setting (last setting in the menu on the wheel). Setting this to 100 "fixes" this behaviour for me.
I think the wheel assumes you ride backwards then. Should do a test moving the wheel then sudden 180° and moving the other sens to see if it picks up on it. Does the S22 keep the angle backwards if you ride backwards? (Like moving the wheel one direction, sudden 180°, but continue same direction)?
It really looks like the code for recalibrating the wheel when riding backward kicks of way too early. Well that's my hunch... if true, S22 don't re calibrate the pedals riding backward but Lynx and Apex does. Well again just a supposition
On my Lynx the same thing happens when the "CrA Lu" setting is 0, however with this set to 100% the angle doesn't self-adjust any more it stays the same when rotating the wheel. Is this setting present in the latest APEX firmware?
Just did this on my Sherman L and it works!!! If you don't see this setting, update to the latest firmware!!! TRUB should try this on his wheel, the Apex is basically a LeaperKim so the setting should be there.
I wonder. Q1: Does this happen on the L? Q2: The Apex, L, and Lynx has that special safety algorithm should the Hall sensor fail; any relationship? I'm rooting for this wheel and want NOSFET to succeed.
On the Lynx, (don't care about the Apex) I find PH at/about 100%, AA 00%, and CrA Lu (CL) at 100% pretty good. Same on the SL. But I do keep pedal angle at zero.
my v14 does this. idk about when not riding but definitely when I go around a corner toes dop a bit very odd feeling but I feel it so often I may have gotten used to it lol
The clue is that the wheel moves to brake or accelerate assist position under the rotational force. When it registers the rotational force it treats it as accelerator or brake motion ? See if acceleration and brake assist changes.
Is the fixed firmware for this problem even released yet? I saw they're working on it and testing in November, do you have that version in this video already?
@@trubttam I guess they have to go back and fix this as well. Wonder what happens if you turn the wheel 360 degrees instead of 180. Looks like it forgets the direction, no? Maybe just a small coding error (hopefully). TBH I don't concern about this since this is easily fixable via software. The suspension is more interesting because that's hardware.
3d printers, and other manufacturing technologies, make it so new smaller companies can be competitive with already established, larger brands: with regards to production size and quality of manufactured parts. The same can't be said for things that involve programming, at least not yet. The result is that larger brands like kingsong and inmotion will always have an edge over nosfet and leaperkim regarding firmware and software, simply because they have more people working on it and testing it
Could it be cheap, slow components on the motherboard or is it all in how the code is written? I've no clue, just guessing lol but that would definitely get annoying lol
i have a lynx calibrated perfectly flat and it's not moving at all while twisting, if i change the calibration via software it will start the weird behaviour (.13 firmware atm) ps: tested the Extreme and it's rock solid, if you twist the wheel it will do what you set it to do in app
HI. Are you saying that there is a difference between calibrating the wheel through the application or directly on the wheel? I calibrate through the application and I have the same problem as TRUB. firmware .13
My question would be: how many riders will this matter for? Because I hear raves for the Lynx all over, with new wheels being evaluated as "is it worth it if it's not better than the Lynx?" and such, and watching the video, it looks like the Apex is doing the same thing.
I like the lynx but this behaviour pisses me off especially on long fast cornes even more so with elevation changes. It's in spite of this problem, that shows how good the hardware is.
The problem is not the wheel, it’s Jack. It’s been Jack all along. Jack is so eager to show the world he’s making a wheel, simply to feed his ego, that he could not hold himself back and just simply release the wheel when it’s actually ready to be released. It’s as simple as that. Period.
@ why? 52 years on the planet and there’s some people you can tell that are the way they are. Of all the RUclipsrs, to me he’s the least likable, thought that well before the Apex. Can I definitely say why? No, just a gut feeling. And people are only defending him because he’s who he is, if you was a faceless CEO putting out this wheel they would be gunning for his head.
Everyone has opinions and nobody’s perfect. Time will tell if NOSFET will be able to fix their unforced-errors before bankruptcy but we real don’t know what funding and support they have/need to be successful. Brute-force design iterations can be an exhausting process of capital risk and minimal returns as scalability has yet to be realized. Jack’s saving grace is the special forms of strategic incompetence in business finance and marketing, which has plagued the sector since Ninebot sold out of EUCs and abandoned the market for the delusional scooter market. There are several well loved personalities within the community that are simply too ‘masked’/ unaware of themselves to take seriously. …and that’s okay because they’re generally not maliciously stupid, just stupefied (or clueless) about their blind spots, as I am about my own.
EDIT:
Thanks to the comment section we know the newest setting in the Lynx firmware, “CrA Lu” set to 100 makes the pedals behave like the s22!
Watching this footage back it really seems like the wheel is always shifting to the calibrated point regardless of wheel orientation and then slowly correcting to the set pedal angle. It’s like the wheel has no idea that it has turned so the pedals are a mirror image of what they should be, then it slowly corrects. Flat pedal riders may never experience this but as you can see the s22 does not have this flaw.
Was the angle from calibration set to netural durring the calibration? It shouldn't matter but it might.
I've heard the bad pedal feel could be a few things:
Bad dc-dc giving a dirty voltage rail to the controller and in turn the gyro.
A poor quality/unsuitable gyro.
A bad gyro filter(software) that has a long averaging problem (vesc has different filters and settings for each and they each give different outputs when setup wrong).
Bad software/fw.
Dode... that's so right. That's always pissing me off on series of jumps with Lynx and Sherman-S (i have both). I have also S22 Pro - that never happens on on KS firmware, it's just not enough powerwise though. 😮💨😮💨
Good video. Problem well displayed. Here's hoping they fix this. Not as hardcore as you on trails, but it's bothered me too
The fix is already in the latest firmware. Try playing with the "CrA Lu" setting (last setting in the menu on the wheel). Setting this to 100 "fixes" this behaviour for me.
Stoked, thanks for the info ❤️
I think the wheel assumes you ride backwards then. Should do a test moving the wheel then sudden 180° and moving the other sens to see if it picks up on it. Does the S22 keep the angle backwards if you ride backwards? (Like moving the wheel one direction, sudden 180°, but continue same direction)?
It really looks like the code for recalibrating the wheel when riding backward kicks of way too early. Well that's my hunch... if true, S22 don't re calibrate the pedals riding backward but Lynx and Apex does.
Well again just a supposition
This is a good point. It seems like that is what's happening since it always goes to the opposite of how it's set.
On my Lynx the same thing happens when the "CrA Lu" setting is 0, however with this set to 100% the angle doesn't self-adjust any more it stays the same when rotating the wheel. Is this setting present in the latest APEX firmware?
Just did this on my Sherman L and it works!!! If you don't see this setting, update to the latest firmware!!!
TRUB should try this on his wheel, the Apex is basically a LeaperKim so the setting should be there.
Awesome! I tried it and it works! Now they just need this setting on apex firmware!
I wonder. Q1: Does this happen on the L? Q2: The Apex, L, and Lynx has that special safety algorithm should the Hall sensor fail; any relationship? I'm rooting for this wheel and want NOSFET to succeed.
On the Lynx, (don't care about the Apex) I find PH at/about 100%, AA 00%, and CrA Lu (CL) at 100% pretty good. Same on the SL. But I do keep pedal angle at zero.
I use the same settings and can confirm it's good. Also, I just tested it with maximum pedal angle and even then it stays locked in!
my v14 does this. idk about when not riding but definitely when I go around a corner toes dop a bit very odd feeling but I feel it so often I may have gotten used to it lol
What happens if you adjust that new setting from 0 to100?
the angle of the pedals adjusts more slowly, that's all.
As far as I can tell with "CrA Lu" at 100% the pedals stay fixed. I taped the phone on the top and double checked that there's no change in the angle.
The clue is that the wheel moves to brake or accelerate assist position under the rotational force. When it registers the rotational force it treats it as accelerator or brake motion ? See if acceleration and brake assist changes.
Is the fixed firmware for this problem even released yet? I saw they're working on it and testing in November, do you have that version in this video already?
Yes
@@trubttam I guess they have to go back and fix this as well. Wonder what happens if you turn the wheel 360 degrees instead of 180. Looks like it forgets the direction, no? Maybe just a small coding error (hopefully).
TBH I don't concern about this since this is easily fixable via software. The suspension is more interesting because that's hardware.
My first thought is maybe its the acceleration assist. Turning seems to make the wheel need to spin faster. Im no expert by any means.
3d printers, and other manufacturing technologies, make it so new smaller companies can be competitive with already established, larger brands: with regards to production size and quality of manufactured parts. The same can't be said for things that involve programming, at least not yet. The result is that larger brands like kingsong and inmotion will always have an edge over nosfet and leaperkim regarding firmware and software, simply because they have more people working on it and testing it
Could it be cheap, slow components on the motherboard or is it all in how the code is written? I've no clue, just guessing lol but that would definitely get annoying lol
It surely is the code
We do not know for sure but I’ve heard people blame the IMU on the Lynx before
i have a lynx calibrated perfectly flat and it's not moving at all while twisting, if i change the calibration via software it will start the weird behaviour (.13 firmware atm)
ps: tested the Extreme and it's rock solid, if you twist the wheel it will do what you set it to do in app
HI. Are you saying that there is a difference between calibrating the wheel through the application or directly on the wheel? I calibrate through the application and I have the same problem as TRUB. firmware .13
My question would be: how many riders will this matter for? Because I hear raves for the Lynx all over, with new wheels being evaluated as "is it worth it if it's not better than the Lynx?" and such, and watching the video, it looks like the Apex is doing the same thing.
I like the lynx but this behaviour pisses me off especially on long fast cornes even more so with elevation changes. It's in spite of this problem, that shows how good the hardware is.
👍
It looks like the wheel losing sense of direction 😂 maybe the Gyro thinks the rear is the front and the front is the rear when you whop it around.
I think I gave up on the nosfet… not because of this video.
Of all things, being uncertain on how your pedals will behave is the worst 😥 I noticed this going from my first wheel ks16s to my v12ht
The problem is not the wheel, it’s Jack. It’s been Jack all along. Jack is so eager to show the world he’s making a wheel, simply to feed his ego, that he could not hold himself back and just simply release the wheel when it’s actually ready to be released. It’s as simple as that. Period.
Why do you say such things about Jack? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious how you came to that thought?
@ why? 52 years on the planet and there’s some people you can tell that are the way they are. Of all the RUclipsrs, to me he’s the least likable, thought that well before the Apex. Can I definitely say why? No, just a gut feeling. And people are only defending him because he’s who he is, if you was a faceless CEO putting out this wheel they would be gunning for his head.
@@skampsterThat kind of comment is way too far and not welcome anywhere. Keep your crazy to yourself.
Everyone has opinions and nobody’s perfect. Time will tell if NOSFET will be able to fix their unforced-errors before bankruptcy but we real don’t know what funding and support they have/need to be successful. Brute-force design iterations can be an exhausting process of capital risk and minimal returns as scalability has yet to be realized. Jack’s saving grace is the special forms of strategic incompetence in business finance and marketing, which has plagued the sector since Ninebot sold out of EUCs and abandoned the market for the delusional scooter market.
There are several well loved personalities within the community that are simply too ‘masked’/ unaware of themselves to take seriously. …and that’s okay because they’re generally not maliciously stupid, just stupefied (or clueless) about their blind spots, as I am about my own.