@@nigeljoycey5644Sounds about right. My friend had a 2019 sti that blew at 40k miles. I never saw him drive it crazy even when that car was full. Everybody going on and on about making these things turbod but I wouldn’t buy it if it was lmao. Got a 2024 ts coming in june
Enough power for what, doing the speed limit? It's really not a very quick car and any car guy is gonna want something with some power. The fact that it doesnt have a turbo is frustrating which is a shame bc i love how it looks, but 185 ft/lbs of torque and 230hp is just pitiful for a sports car - i dont care how good it handles corners, my 2020 Yaris handles corners than nearly any car on the road. 86 is just a lackluster car and is barely a sports car.
@@RuiMeirelesPachecothe only thing the s2k has going for it is its engine even to today's standards. But thats specifically if you want a high reving 2.0-2.2L engine which isnt a cup of tea for everyone and there are MANY other engine options out there now that can produce the same or more horsepower for less money. Also, the s2k has an inferior chassis, it was ahead of its time, AT the time, but now its behind the times. For reference, the ND2 miata is faster in a 0-60 sprint, 50:50 balanced, and with the same or smaller engine. Plus it comes with several modern luxuries, a beautiful driver-centric interior and now has kinmatic posture control and an optional retractable hardtop.... A brand new off the lot miata costs less money than an S2k used and likely abused. And then there are older porsche boxter's(S model) that can go for around the same money but you get a more performant rear-mid engine with more power and torque for close to the same weight while having the bonus of additional porsche luxuries. An S2k is still a beautiful performance sports car, but its no longer worth its price. Also, no hate on anyone here who recently bought an s2k, but overpaying because you like it personally is not a good justification for paying the high cost. A bad decision is a bad decision.
I think the S2K is a logical choice for exactly what you want - that raw experience + internal combustion combo AND reliability. It is the BEST to ever do it and the last of its kind. Even if Honda does come out with a successor, it wouldn't be as raw. All the best on whatever you do choose and happy motoring.
I absolutely adore the S2K, specifically the AP1. Honestly though, with just a few reasonably priced tweaks to my 86 I can get pretty much the same results from both and about equal amounts of enjoyment. This isn't on easy roads or tracks either, TN/NC has some of the best driving roads you will find and I'm close to all of them. I love them both dearly though and would fault nobody at all for going with one over the other.
@@JozephRinaldi Can't fault you for the 86 love you have! I've owned a 2013 FRS and a 2015 BRZ and absolutely loved them, which is why I had them twice. Even considered the GR86! Spiritually, they are different. Putting money into the 86 won't make it an S2K, even in matching or exceeding its performance. Not that its bad. It's just different.
@@bigbodykarate6403 Its not about the power. Its about the experience you get. I am assuming you do not drive or you have a license, cars have different driving characteristics. Older cars feel more raw and mechanical.
@@bigbodykarate6403 if anything theres more Steering feedback since its an older car and you can feel the vibrations more. Plus in terms of power they are pretty much neck and neck.
As a 2019 nd2 miata owner. I’d say just get the miata. Buying an older car for the same price is going to have its own issues even if it is low miles. Seals could start wearing out especially if it’s nearing 20 years old like a s2000. As far as engine goes the nd2 revs to 7500. Has enough power. Handles amazing. And can be a raw experience. It has too much body roll from factory but it can be turned into a track weapon with a set of coil overs and sway bars. It’ll completely transform the already good handling into a weapon. I’ve had friends tell me it’s like driving a gokart. Also I say miata because reliability. I’ve driven mine 47k miles so far and have had no issues which is what you would expect with a low mileage 5 year old car. As far as practicality. It’s not. But it does teaches you about how to be minimalist and packing. Me and my wife took the miata all the way from Houston to New York and back. All we needed were seat cushions and we were perfectly comfortable. We even vacuumed sealed our clothes and packed for a week and a half filled the trunk. We even went camping and threw the tent , sleeping bags and our camping supplies in the space behind our head with the top up. The Miata has been a joy to drive.
miata is best fun, but raw it is not in nd2 form (my current daily) life is short, guy clearly wants to scratch the s2000 itch..d'be a fool to not do it then regret it when there's barely any clean ones left to buy
i just got one last year on december and i’m in love i obviously don’t use it to track and won’t do it because it can become too expensive but i use it for a daily drive and it’s the best thing i have bought in my entire life for now im just 21.
I'm an older car enthusiast (50s) BRZ tS is the ideal drivers car to me. I'd maybe consider a mid 2000's Cayman S if i was open to dealing with maintenance costs. But to have such a drivers car in my garage is pure bliss. Thankfully I dont daily it so its strictly for fun. But i get the lack luster engine part. it definitely needs more character
Totally understand the sentiment given the variety of cars you already own. The GR86 is definitely an enthusiast's one car dream. If you're looking for extreme, you could also go with a Caterham or Ariel or even Polaris if you want to do some offroading. I had been looking into getting a Caterham kit and building one myself, but soon realized engine import regulations make that mostly impossible particularly in Canada.
as a prior owner of an AP1 s2000 i think i would have a hard time letting go of my 23 BRZ to get back into one. while not as emotional, this platform is better, and arguably more fun. The f20c wasnt the master of reliability either, it definitely had it's fair share of failures that were spoken of with baited breath in the community. Also, they don't fair well in an accident, high fatality rate at speeds over 40mph compared to 2nd gen twins, which are remarkably safe. i find this platform to be the sweet spot for what ive been wanting for 20 years. hopefully you find what you are looking for, id argue an NA straight six akin to s54 would be a more rewarding and emotional experience. Id love to build an S54 swapped e36, or even just completely restore an e46 m3.
Just purchased a 2024 BRZ and I am a former AP2 S2000 owner. I bought the car for exactly this reason. It has aspects that remind me of the S2000 and my NC Miata -- while still being a new car -- and with many of the downsides addressed (such as safety features, lack of low RPM torque, warranty, available parts). S2000's are special but I don't want to have to reach back 15+ years for a sports car. Honestly I would probably pick up a lightly used Cayman S or Boxster S PDK (I don't like Porsche manuals, but the PDK is great,) or a new Civic Si (not type R) and go from there, but the BRZ is such a nice sweet spot. I need to be able to put a child seat in the back sometimes so the BRZ can be a second car instead of a third car. The only option that is in the same price range as the BRZ is the Civic Si. Or a WRX? I think BRZ/GR86 is about as "sports car" as you can get in the 30K-60K range.
i totally understand what u are contemplating. u want something that feels special every time u drive it. i have a honda s660 and it's such a special occasion every time i get into it, even if it's exhausting to drive long distance, it's still worth it.
the 86/brz really is the perfect single car enthusiast solution on a budget, but yea - if I could have 2 cars I'd probably have a truck and a S2000 - if 3 cars truck, S2000 and spec miata
S2k and spec miata would be too much overlap for me. I would want a 911 or elise since diffferent engine layouts make for completely different experiences
3:30 "moving into the EV future" I have to laugh anytime I hear something like that. Also the claim that "Everybody will have to get an EV" is so far into the future, it's peak Science Fiction. The internal Combustion Engine (whichever fuel suits your fancy) is as good as it gets for mass and personal transportation.The EV fad is being kept alive from the top down but won't last because it does not make sense economically or environmentally.
Former BRZ23 Owner. The BRZ is better than the S2000 and ND2 RF in handling and power. The issue with the FA24 Platform is oil pressure loss in track usage. That’s mainly why I let it go. I don’t want to have issues with a warranty claim
Emira is still MIA - very unfortunate. Expanding experiences as we get older is vastly more valuable than clutching onto something forever and ever (unless that's a personal desire too). Good luck!
Bro, I have had a 2023 10th anniversary 86 since last April and you're right about it being refined and not hardcore enough. Lol those were my exact words I used to my wife when I told her I wanted to buy a S2000. Well I found a 08 with 31k miles on marketplace and man let me tell you... it's a dream 😂 the 86 is smooth and even enjoyable on rainy days but I still prefer to drive the S2k. The S2000 is never a bad choice! Best of luck to you in your decision making!
I hear you man. I got a Camaro SS 1LE 3 years ago and when it was my only car it was a tough daily because of the shock stiffness. But now that I have a second car that I daily, the 1LE is so much more fun to drive and I appreciate it way more. If you can, I’d definitely splurge for a 1LE while they’re still around for your front-engine RWD car.
Agree that 6th gen Camaros are amazing values, especially 1LE variants, but expensive to track and insure. Most of those who say they are heavy and don’t handle have not turned a wheel in one on a track.
@@RichJ_youtube heavy? Yes. Great handling? Yes. But you can't hide weight or inertia. Alpha chassis is great. I'd take a 1LE over an M4/M2. But that weight is hard on all consumables as well.
@@65hi863dhyu Heavy if you compare it to cars 20 years ago sure, now it's almost the lightest in its class with its direct competitors being the Mach1, Dark Horse, M2, and Supra. Sure it's not as light as the Supra but it still feels amazing to drive in every aspect, it's a true driver's car. He said he wanted something that is more of an occasion to drive, no relatively new car is as much of an "occasion" that will feel as good on a track as the SS 1LE in my opinion, barring the Supra, but I think a V8 is way more exciting.
Since I do own a Boxster S 981, you can consider it or a Cayman S as well, it has a perfect 50/50 weight distribution. Same engine as 911 Carrera, a nice steering and PDK along with a throttle response map you can have a lot of fun and it does not breakdown that much plus you can get a PASM active suspension option which really adds to the fun. It is not too steep also you can look at GTS versions.
I couldn't agree with you more. I have a Civic Type R, which I have moded quite a bit in all areas, suspension, engine, gearbox, and it is transformed to a weekend car only. I have noted that the more extreme it is, the more enjoyable it is over the weekend, and the less you are going to drive it eventually, but when you do so, oh my,... I agree, the AP2 is the next car to go. I would personally go for an Ariel Atom, if I were in your place. I hope the Lotus is not too refined too, otherwise it will have the same ending as the GR86. I recommend putting some engine mounts to your AP2, and some suspension mods to add slightly some vibrations to your seat, it really helps making it the weekend car you just described you wanna have.
I have similar feelings about my GR86, and excellent car but only 600 miles in a year as I find myself taking my modified GT86 instead for a rawer experience (family car for day to day journeys). Seems crazy as it is such a good car but feels like I need my third car to be something more special even if not as good/reliable.
@@nemohoeszA lot more refined and because the power is available lower down, you don’t have to drive it as hard which makes it less enjoyable when being used as a weekend car
I don t have any daily driver but I have two cars one in Italy (2007 european s2000, I think we got the best of both world :) and one in Hong Kong (Honda s660 with the hks 100gt kit, test pipe and specific map for 120hp, around 800kg with tons of other mods). The s2000 is my holiday toy and my track toy for when I m back to Italy. It has Ohlins and Recaro RSG which lowered the seat 5cm. It will soon have a BBK. I love to change parts with aftermarket quality parts and the way the car feel after changing them. On track it's probably as fast as a fiesta ST or Hyundai N20 but it is so much fun and it teaches you how to drive properly. The S660 won on the MX5 ND and it is so much fun even though not very fast by any means. It also let me experience a mid engine car with the engine in the back, incredible grip level and incredible agility (power to weight ratio and weight of the most pure of the lotus the elise s1 with honda reliability and modern gadgets), fantastic steering (better than the s2000) and gearbox as usual for honda. The MX5 was a very close second choice but I can always own one in europe one day while the little kei car is something special. I read that you don't consider the ND2 as exciting as the s2000 and I agree. I also read that you would enjoy a 911 for the different engine configuration and I d also love to try that. Looking forward to see your s2000
I switched from a 330ci ZHP 6 speed to a 2006 S2000 and a Subaru Crosstrek. The BRZ/86 and ZHP are a broadly similar practical RWD 3000ish lbs sport coupes - but I learned the same thing you have around this age and income level. You don't want to combine a sports car with a daily, because you will get tired of it. It's human nature to take things for granted you can have anytime. You need to have that option to drive a sports car with all the compromises then hop into a more anonymous, numb, practical car that works with your family, friends and hobbies. It will keep your appreciation for both at a high level for far longer, especially if the sports car component is reliable like the S2K. Lots of older gentlemen with broken down "fix it someday" 60s-80s cars in their garages that end up on Junkyard Digs.
@@sunnyvalentino dude wants a fun car, top candidate is an s2k, but one of his main concerns is how the car will do in a crash, lol. cybertruck is faster than all of the above
I don't think lightweight sports cars are fun in areas with mostly straight roads. I think it's best to have a winding road or local circuit nearby. This may explain why muscle cars are popular in the United States.
Can’t change the sound much of the engine, other than a louder intake or going to unequal length headers. A little difficult to remove that mild mannered refinement, it’s just the way car was made. Oil pressure drop is pretty much solved now. Overfill helps a lot, but the new oil pan being tested from the brz900 RUclips channel does even better, even more effective than an accusump. So I’m sure in future, track reliability will improve. I would move to an S2000 or lotus of some sort for sure if looking for more hard edge, more connection.
I hear you on the engine failure concerns, I'm sure non-tracked ones will probably have good long term reliability, but the oil starvation in right hand corners over 0.7G and all the RTV people are finding in their oil pick up filters is concerning. I would want to wait and see what people's experiences are like at 100,000 to 150,000 miles. I've also heard a lot of people don't want to deal with the spark plug changes at 60,000miles because you need to drop or lift the motor to access the heads....
I beat mine within an inch of its life all the time, NCM, ToTD + another run nearby with 1000 more bends with nary a problem. AFAIK only 12 confirmed oil pressure failures. Just a note, Porsche has warnings in manuals about increased tyre grip and potential starvation issues. People running RS660s on really long bends, well.... that's part of track prep and pay to play. I place a large part of the blame on the owners for not properly prepping their track car. Even GR Cup specifically mentions they modify parts of the engine due to high G cornering.
Owned an AP1 S2000 that was supercharged. I traded it for a new, at the time, 2013 BRZ. Then a decade elapsed and I owned several different and varied sports car brands in those intervening years. I just took delivery of a 2024 BRZ. The platform has always been my favorite, looking back. So, in my case, I feel like Ive come home.
lol I’ve made the same move 1 month ago. Sold my beloved GR86 for lack of raw emotions (I had a gen1 BRZ for 9 years). The 86 is wonderful, but as life goes over I wanted a minimal, sincere and no tech car, I had a Lotus Elise from UK and I’m converting that LHD myself. I now have a toy that I see as a toy, and not as a brand new Apple car play car that I paid monthly and was scared to “touch”.
Get the AP1 S2000 and check off that box in your automotive ownership experience. Do it while they are still affordable and let Zygrene/Fenton take it for another s2000 video. There’s nothing else as satisfying in that price point.
I always enjoy hearing your thoughts on your toy car journey. Couple things resonated with me for sure. 1st being, wanting to enjoy these cars while we can. I'm a little younger, my GR86 is my daily driving toy car. Lusting after other cars is a struggle for me. But after driving some other options, within the price point I feel like I'll keep the 86 till the wheels fall off. Will that not let me experience a higher end Combustion sports car? Maybe... If the 86 is my last one I guess I wouldn't regret it. You're taking advantage of the timing, beat up that lotus! :)
Compared to my IS300h I find it way more hardcore and intense, but I agree about the steering. At low speed the steering feels too Lexus like, a bit lazy, but does sharpen up a lot the faster you go. Crappy sound system and slow off the line in day to day driving are my other biggest criticisms, I always feel scared I can't pull away fast enough at a round about or junction, but maybe I'm too used to the off the line shove of the electric motors in my IS hybrid.
I sold my Giulia to Carvana and got back most of what I paid for it and it was super easy. We also bought 3 cars from them including my f82, so personally I had a good experience.
Thanks for your thoughts on this, especially as I've kept a little bit of an eye on the GR86 and I was curious as to how it would be for a secondary or tertiary car. I may pass on the platform as, like you, I tend to swing more towards the older, raw, and visceral kinds of cars. I already have a Lexus RC as a daily as well as a Celica GT-Four and a Z3 3.0(oddly similar in power/weight to the GR86), but I also want something that I can use as a total nostalgia trip and a secondary car when I'm just tired of running an automatic to work and back. I think the S2K would be a fine car for those purposes, though I really also lean towards getting another AE86 or SW20 MR2 for another FR or MR platform that I can have fun in and tinker with. Yes, they're far from modern but I like that about those cars; they demand more attention and more skill(both when turning the wheel or turning a wrench).
@@jubbalandcars : I really liked both and kinda regret selling them both. I'd say the SW20 was more refined and comfortable than the AE86; there's also the option of swapping to a 2GR-FE which makes for a compelling budget alternative to an Evora. However, the AE86 is also outright iconic and I don't mind some more 'slow car fast' action. While I am also curious about muscle cars(I've also considered a 5.0 S197 Mustang) as I haven't really owned anything above the low 300hp mark, it's difficult to really utilize those kinds of vehicles due to traffic congestion(at least where I live).
I feel like you consider the GR86 a "young person car" and that you outgrew it. I got mine with 47 y.o. 😅😅 Not all 40+ old people can afford a Lotus and I am glad the GR86 exists.
I would expect many older car enthusiasts to have space for a second car that's a dedicated sports car. Not a single vehicle like the GR86 that has to be their only car. Younger people usually don't have families. Older people usually can't get away with GR86 as their only car.
A Lotus (whichever one you can afford) seems like a good choice for a weekend fun car. The 86 is decent value and good fun, but if it's just for special occasions, you can go for something a little rawer.
Tbh I’m kinda in the same boat. While I don’t have a 86 yet, I planned on getting one this year. I’ve been daily driving an 2016 IS200t for the past 4 years. I really want a corvette but I’m on the younger side. It was between a 5.0 Mustang or a GR86. I can afford both but I’ve been fighting myself over which one id truly want because the GR86 will definitely be more engaging than my 200t but it honestly wouldn’t feel like THAT much of a departure compared to getting a mustang. Especially with how I drive in general(nothing stupid but more spirited than your average drive for sure). So idk man I’m still debating 😂. I’ve gotten use to compact low HP cars(241 with turbo rn) absolutely destroying corners but at the same time I want that raw V8 power as well.
Try an E36 BMW M3. Best hard core analog car I have ever owned. Amazing engine, no nannies, great brakes. As for the S2000, I had one and I am over 6 feet tall and was cramped in that car with no adjustable steering column. I also had an Evora 400 and it is so much better than a Porsche. Buy the E36 M3. You can get them cheap but be prepared to spend bucks on maintenance.
s2k is not going to be much faster or exotic compare to your current car.....how about 981 cayman/boxster, driving a MR is a totally different experience
I know I’m a little late to the video and I know it’s a little bit more expensive of a car, but I would also heavily consider the M2 competition as a great third car!
4:45 BRO yeah that is my dream car, the Lotus Emira, can't wait to see it! I already love the gr86, but I can never own a car with a boxer engine, especially for long term. For a RWD front engine rear wheel drive car I'm honestly considering a Foxbody Mustang. I've driven many low hp low weight cars like my aw11 mr2 but I'm genuinely curious as to how a 250hp older v8 car would handle, especially with light modding. Getting more torque from almost any part of the rev range is something I really want to experience myself.
hows the gr86 compared to boat cars on freeways? is it as bad as the nd rf miata or is it manageable? i'm on the fence between getting something fun but at the same time i want a relatively comfortable experience for my girlfriend on slightly longer trips(2hrs) and from what i read the gr86 like most other sports cars doesn't really have that. can you confirm this? the "sportiest" vehicle i've driven is a celica GTS and it was lowered quite a bit. honestly quite a terrible experience on california's broken main roads and i wasn't too happy taking my girlfriend around in it bc i always felt concerned about the comfort. it was fun driving alone but i'm now torn between a gr86/brz and a simple mazda 3
I got a brz recently after driving a corolla hybrid for a while and have been driving it on 8 hour trips up and down cali and all over the place. What I noticed the first time going from san diego to SF was you really feel the cracks and bumps in the road compared to a non-sporty car. It made my back hurt for a day or two after, but the second time going SF to SD wasn't nearly as bad since I knew to avoid the cracks and bumps, no back pain. I'm used to the ride now, but I wouldn't want to drive on cracked roads all the time. In the brz can really feel just how good the road is, even if its smooth, you can feel whether its old or new. But that is the trade off of a car with good handling. looked it up, and it seems like you should go for gr86 over brz if you want comfort: "Yes the 86 is the one that most reviewers have said is better for daily driving comfort wise. The big recommendation after tires is upgrading to a set of comfort suspension. The thing is, no matter what you do to this car, it is never going to ride like a cruising car. It was made to be a bit rough." from www.gr86.org/threads/smoother-ride-recommendations-daily-driver.2545/ summary: you can feel every crack and bump in the road, its something you can get used to, avoid, or upgrade, but it can be tiresome on long trips.
@@avisillygoosewait I don't know that sounds wrong because from what I have seen and heard the gr86 is a track ready vehicle whereas the BRZ is one for daily driving and comfort so I have no idea where we got this thing where gr86 is actually good for daily driving there's a BRZ is not that just sounds weird to me
I'd recommend test driving it. I owned a GR86 and now an ND2 Miata and live in California. Don't really have problems with either in terms of comfort outside of going on long road trips to SF. For a long trip, GR86 is slightly better comfort wise. Also might feel different if you get the base vs premium model because the wheels are different
I agree. The 86 needs a little more raw and a little less refinement. Personally, between the engine issues and reliability issues, I really wished that Toyota used the B48 from BMW. I have owned a '98 JDM STi and it ended the same as all the others. If the 86 had the B48 It would have been a monster of a car, with the wicked tuning potential... Oh well.
Hi, for me you should get back to a first gen BRZ/FRS/GT86, okay you like the S2k or an ND2 for the roadster and 2 seat philosophie but I think you will be wrong leaving the BRZ platform, the 2nd gen BRZ is more comfortable and it makes it less special but if you get back to a 1st gen, you'll keep everything you like with a more exclusive feeling because of the less comfort and the old school 90s feeling. You think I'm crazy to say that but if you stayed on this platform as much as you did, it's because it's made for you, if you really prefered the S2k or the ND2, you were already on it. So in any case, you cannot be wrong and you know that better than me, do what you want and you will be happy, you'll always be able to get back on a BRZ platform gen 2 and 1 or to change for another car. Enjoy! 🥰
i love the first gen but the reason i stayed on it so long was because i was quite broke and it was my one car. now i have the ability for multiple cars, i can justify something less practical like s2k
I think you're chasing an impossible dream and will never be happy with any car. And I'm not saying that to belittle you. A lot of car enthusiasts are like that. I was like that a while ago. Even though I dreamt about the 86 for so long, not long after getting it I was browsing for ND2s because "it would make a better weekend getaway car". Then I learned to enjoy my 86 in more than 1 scenario. I can enjoy tracking it, I can enjoy drifting it, I can enjoy just driving it on some windy country roads, but I also can go for groceries with it and even take 3 people in it if I absolutely have to. This car checks more boxes than any other can, imo. It's such an easy and (relatively) cheap answer to all our needs. Maybe that's why we're seeking for more. It's the "wait, is that really it?" feeling that maybe if you get another car it will be even better than the 86. But I highly doubt it will. Unless you specifically want a track only toy.
If you didn't get Miata for safety reasons then S2k isn't any better, probably is worst. I prefer modern cars for safety reasons, if the engine on my BRZ blows, I would put built k24 in there if it costs less than 15k, solving both issues you mentioned. Hopefully k industries come up with swap kit by then.
Love the enthusiasm but I don't think I've ever seen a kswap come out to 15k even with minimal labour costs. Realistically you'll double that, and at the end you're left with an engine that is so insanely buzzy because it was never intended to fit in that package.
@@harrybuhse8622 k industries complete kit for previous gen was 9k IIRC, plus labor and actual engine. Next one would be a lot cheaper though. Joking aside, If it's not under 15k then I would probably get built short block that possibly can rev to 8k. Other option is turn key swap from sikky which is about 25k for LSx.
@@ruturaj47 The kit is $10.4k, engine not included, and there are other bits and pieces that have to be bought depending on which engine you source (not included in the kit). k24s make 220whp stock so you're already approaching 15k just to install an engine that is buzzy as I said before, and less powerful than a supercharged fa20 which is cheaper, less labour intensive, and less quirks to sort out. k24 swaps only make sense if you have deep pockets and want a track build. if you decide to build the motor, you'll also have to replace the transmission to handle the extra torque which isn't cheap either. $30K in no time for an unrefined Frankenstein that you'll never get your money back out of, nor the time it takes to complete all of this.
Idk what you’re looking for in the s2000 market, or what your budget is. But i learned today that Andy Mohr Honda in Bloomington, Indiana has a 2007 AP2 for sale with only 26k miles. I believe their posted price is $37k.
Get an f87 m2(2018) or f87 m2comp. Plenty of power and amazing handling. I did and never looked back. Easy to make more power if needed. Can be bad with a 6spd man or dct.
No point in keeping a new car around that you aren't driving. You'd be much better off with something old-school and track-capable that won't lose value to depreciation if you drive it 3,000 miles a year. Any interest in a viper?
I get the argument on a sense of occasion. But you lose me when you say you’re concerned about gr86 reliability and a 20 year old Elise or s2000 are top contenders for alternatives. If you want a track weapon - get an ND1 Miata and because people are freaked out by the transmission issues you’ll find one on the cheap and modify it for track use and taste. Prob score one for the low 20s and have headroom in the budget for significant modifications.
I like the look and reported handling of the 86, but at the end of the day I already know that 230hp just isn't going to cut it long term. I'm leaning towards a 2000s Porsche Cayman myself, which would be my 2nd Porsche - the first being a 84' 944 when I was 16! With a stock 295hp plus bolt-ons I think 315hp should be plenty quick to keep up with the newer hot hatch market.
10 years on same platform is a long time! Time to move on! I have started on some harder bushing changes on my GR86. It is starting to get more raw and sporty. Along with CAI and exhaust, it evokes a bit more emotion now.
Hell yeah, I'm also going to continue reviewing GR86's (especially modified) on the channel to discuss the different directions one can take the car and the potential of it
I'd love to see You and Zygrene get behind the wheel of a Harrop supercharged GR86. I know counterspace garage are building one this year, but that may be track only since it's not carb certified yet. They know how to build the platform though so it would be a hell of a car to review.
The GR86 represents one of the only three coupes I can realistically afford new. The mustang is great but I don’t love it the way I do the 86/BRZ. The Miata is less practical and Im too tall to feel safe in it. The Z is what I really want but I cant justify the extra 15k when I think the 86 is 80% of the car for 60% of the price.
The only people I ever hear criticizing the BRZ are people who are comparing it to much more expensive cars. I keep hearing "The BRZ is the best car for the money, but I really prefer the Lotus" or "I love the BRZ, but I still think the Porsche is a little better." It says a lot for the BRZ that these are the cars it is being compared to.
I went to the dealership yesterday to get a quote after they called me asking to buy my 22gr86. I had 22k left to pay on it and he offered me 24k Eo basically the same amountI got for my 07 honda accord when I traded it in. After marking it up 7k when I bought it. I laughed at him and left.
A dude had to sell his FR-S because he's a family man. Then he fell in love with my mint-condition E36 2.8 M-Tech (modified with “higher ride height” with std suspension, Z3's quick steering rack & Torsen diff) when test driving it & wanted to buy it from me badly. I can see why -- his FR-S is inferior in almost every way -- low-end torque, steering feel, ride comfort, sound insulation, interior plushness, rear-seating room, rear visibility width & engine longevity if cornered hard. But he had no choice & ended up getting the FK8. He's probably no gonna track it anyway...
@@jubbalandcars2023 GR86 UPDATE?🤔... not sure if I mentioned this already- I purchased an OBD2 adapter, and I've been noticing random cylinder misfires with no warning light. It seems like it's only at idle before I drive off, and there's a little white smoke sometimes at startup. The car now has 5,000 mi,, and ive changed the oil twice already. As mentioned before, I've not really given the car a hard time at all, and in fact I'm thinking maybe that's hurt it, coupled with short trips. So, The moving average of misfires seems to stay around two or three and has been as low as one. Overall the car seems to drive perfectly fine. Worst thing that has happened is a mis-shift from 4th to 3rd, when I was trying to go to 5th. I caught it before I let the clutch out, but I still heard the RPMs for a second and it made me cringe. Not sure if that could've caused the misfires... So, the dealership of course claims they can't do anything until the check engine light comes on, so I contacted Toyota's corporate office, and they've supposedly been in contact with the dealership, to allow them to proceed with a diagnostic etc under warranty. At least there's a paper trail now... Did you ever happen to notice any misfires, or hear of anything like this?
Such a beautiful car. You are making a terrible mistake. You expect a modern car to come out of the factory in a state similar to a 20 years old platform. That's never going to happen. Of course the 20 years old s2000 is going to feel more raw than any 2020s car. Any modern car will feel more refined for that matter. GR86 is one of the best handling cars in any price range thanks to its balanced chassis and its boxer engine with low centre of gravity. This platform just needs some modifications to make it brilliant. I have the same car and had faced the same dilemma a few months ago. Now, after l have done some modifications my car has been completely transformed into an old school analog track monster. I also have 2006 modified Lotus Elise and 2015 Alfa 4C. Both of these cars make a S2000 feel like a luxury cruiser. I can tell you that my 2023 modified BRZ feels as much involving and raw as both of these cars. And on top of that, it is comfortable enough to be driven daily.
Sell this and get a Supercharged EG hatch with a K24z1 swap from a TSX or K20a2 from an RSX. That way youll have more content for youtube. You can gut it out and make it hardcore for the track. 320whp in a 2100lb car would destroy so many cars. Just a suggestion
You can drive it daily in stock form. The Toyota GR86 will be a little more stiff than the Subaru BRZ. If you don't want to feel too much of road bumps get the BRZ.
@@Coolmaninmotion i heard that, but in uk they arent selling BRZ also where i live i have toyota service like 15 mins from my house furthermore the GR86 looks better in my opinion, but thank you for your reply i appreciat it a lot
Awesome videos man! I'm thinking about getting a daily driver sports car again. I had an RX-8 before and need something more fun to drive than this Hyundai EV. I don't plan any track time...but maybe I should!! Do you recommend any upgrades for a new 2024 GR86 Premium with the Brembo Brake Upgrade? What fluids do you recommend? It sounded like you replaced a few things right away. :)
Both Jethro & Sutcliffe don't like them. They're only an analog experience to low skill drivers. Otherwise, they're limp chassis & unsorted handling messes... I don't know how numb steering, a super weak chassis, overweight tedious power delivery with also poor chassis feel is considered "analog" 🤣
Never getting rid of mine. I've had multiple evo and sti. And this thing stomps all those. No turbo problems and has enough power.
Enjoy my guy!
@@Julianklaus I had a 2008 evo mr, 2013 sti, evo 4 (got crank walk), 2019 sti (blew up)
@@nigeljoycey5644Sounds about right. My friend had a 2019 sti that blew at 40k miles. I never saw him drive it crazy even when that car was full. Everybody going on and on about making these things turbod but I wouldn’t buy it if it was lmao. Got a 2024 ts coming in june
@@Julianklaus indeed he is lmao. Biggest load of BS I've ever read
Enough power for what, doing the speed limit? It's really not a very quick car and any car guy is gonna want something with some power. The fact that it doesnt have a turbo is frustrating which is a shame bc i love how it looks, but 185 ft/lbs of torque and 230hp is just pitiful for a sports car - i dont care how good it handles corners, my 2020 Yaris handles corners than nearly any car on the road. 86 is just a lackluster car and is barely a sports car.
S2Ks are so damn expensive for what they are
not wrong
Agreed man. Drove one and it was great, but not 25-30k great imo
How is it expensive when it's up there with big dollar Porsche GT cars in the ranking?
@@RuiMeirelesPachecothe only thing the s2k has going for it is its engine even to today's standards. But thats specifically if you want a high reving 2.0-2.2L engine which isnt a cup of tea for everyone and there are MANY other engine options out there now that can produce the same or more horsepower for less money.
Also, the s2k has an inferior chassis, it was ahead of its time, AT the time, but now its behind the times. For reference, the ND2 miata is faster in a 0-60 sprint, 50:50 balanced, and with the same or smaller engine. Plus it comes with several modern luxuries, a beautiful driver-centric interior and now has kinmatic posture control and an optional retractable hardtop.... A brand new off the lot miata costs less money than an S2k used and likely abused.
And then there are older porsche boxter's(S model) that can go for around the same money but you get a more performant rear-mid engine with more power and torque for close to the same weight while having the bonus of additional porsche luxuries.
An S2k is still a beautiful performance sports car, but its no longer worth its price.
Also, no hate on anyone here who recently bought an s2k, but overpaying because you like it personally is not a good justification for paying the high cost. A bad decision is a bad decision.
yeah like all classic cars are expensive for what it is 😂. we are talking about 24 year old car guys.
I think the S2K is a logical choice for exactly what you want - that raw experience + internal combustion combo AND reliability. It is the BEST to ever do it and the last of its kind. Even if Honda does come out with a successor, it wouldn't be as raw. All the best on whatever you do choose and happy motoring.
I absolutely adore the S2K, specifically the AP1. Honestly though, with just a few reasonably priced tweaks to my 86 I can get pretty much the same results from both and about equal amounts of enjoyment. This isn't on easy roads or tracks either, TN/NC has some of the best driving roads you will find and I'm close to all of them. I love them both dearly though and would fault nobody at all for going with one over the other.
@@JozephRinaldi Can't fault you for the 86 love you have! I've owned a 2013 FRS and a 2015 BRZ and absolutely loved them, which is why I had them twice. Even considered the GR86! Spiritually, they are different. Putting money into the 86 won't make it an S2K, even in matching or exceeding its performance. Not that its bad. It's just different.
I literally sold my gr86 last month and got an AP1 S2000 and it's such a fun car with plenty of soul.
Gotta love that 9k redline
so you went for a slower car with LESS steering feedback ........... ok lol
@@bigbodykarate6403 Its not about the power. Its about the experience you get. I am assuming you do not drive or you have a license, cars have different driving characteristics. Older cars feel more raw and mechanical.
@@bigbodykarate6403 if anything theres more Steering feedback since its an older car and you can feel the vibrations more. Plus in terms of power they are pretty much neck and neck.
@@NiaTK the s2000 is noted for shitty steering feel. It’s not old vs new it’s one specific car vs another specific car
As a 2019 nd2 miata owner. I’d say just get the miata. Buying an older car for the same price is going to have its own issues even if it is low miles. Seals could start wearing out especially if it’s nearing 20 years old like a s2000. As far as engine goes the nd2 revs to 7500. Has enough power. Handles amazing. And can be a raw experience. It has too much body roll from factory but it can be turned into a track weapon with a set of coil overs and sway bars. It’ll completely transform the already good handling into a weapon. I’ve had friends tell me it’s like driving a gokart. Also I say miata because reliability. I’ve driven mine 47k miles so far and have had no issues which is what you would expect with a low mileage 5 year old car. As far as practicality. It’s not. But it does teaches you about how to be minimalist and packing. Me and my wife took the miata all the way from Houston to New York and back. All we needed were seat cushions and we were perfectly comfortable. We even vacuumed sealed our clothes and packed for a week and a half filled the trunk. We even went camping and threw the tent , sleeping bags and our camping supplies in the space behind our head with the top up. The Miata has been a joy to drive.
miata is best fun, but raw it is not in nd2 form (my current daily)
life is short, guy clearly wants to scratch the s2000 itch..d'be a fool to not do it then regret it when there's barely any clean ones left to buy
I have the BRZ for the past 10 years as well. I got the new Z instead now and i am loving it. i kept my BRZ too. i love them both
Enjoy!
Is the Z more comfortable on the highway than the 86?
i just got one last year on december and i’m in love i obviously don’t use it to track and won’t do it because it can become too expensive but i use it for a daily drive and it’s the best thing i have bought in my entire life for now im just 21.
amazing car for 21 year old
amazing. I wanna buy one too...for my 20s. I would afraid it would discontinue or go I3 turbo before I buys it...
I like this guys channel. It just seems refreshing. Enjoy your Lotus!
Thanks for watching =)
I'm an older car enthusiast (50s) BRZ tS is the ideal drivers car to me. I'd maybe consider a mid 2000's Cayman S if i was open to dealing with maintenance costs. But to have such a drivers car in my garage is pure bliss. Thankfully I dont daily it so its strictly for fun. But i get the lack luster engine part. it definitely needs more character
Totally understand the sentiment given the variety of cars you already own. The GR86 is definitely an enthusiast's one car dream. If you're looking for extreme, you could also go with a Caterham or Ariel or even Polaris if you want to do some offroading. I had been looking into getting a Caterham kit and building one myself, but soon realized engine import regulations make that mostly impossible particularly in Canada.
Caterham or Ariel would be epic. That Atom 4 we reviewed on the channel was bananas
@@jubbalandcars Also an Exocet I think I just seen one for sale in like California, Shelby Cobra or a Lotus.
For me the GR86 is the type car I wanted, it’s practical, sporty, it makes people gaze
I’m also a huge Toyota nerd
Even though it's not 100% Toyota :((
as a prior owner of an AP1 s2000 i think i would have a hard time letting go of my 23 BRZ to get back into one. while not as emotional, this platform is better, and arguably more fun. The f20c wasnt the master of reliability either, it definitely had it's fair share of failures that were spoken of with baited breath in the community. Also, they don't fair well in an accident, high fatality rate at speeds over 40mph compared to 2nd gen twins, which are remarkably safe.
i find this platform to be the sweet spot for what ive been wanting for 20 years. hopefully you find what you are looking for, id argue an NA straight six akin to s54 would be a more rewarding and emotional experience. Id love to build an S54 swapped e36, or even just completely restore an e46 m3.
Great points
Just purchased a 2024 BRZ and I am a former AP2 S2000 owner. I bought the car for exactly this reason. It has aspects that remind me of the S2000 and my NC Miata -- while still being a new car -- and with many of the downsides addressed (such as safety features, lack of low RPM torque, warranty, available parts). S2000's are special but I don't want to have to reach back 15+ years for a sports car. Honestly I would probably pick up a lightly used Cayman S or Boxster S PDK (I don't like Porsche manuals, but the PDK is great,) or a new Civic Si (not type R) and go from there, but the BRZ is such a nice sweet spot. I need to be able to put a child seat in the back sometimes so the BRZ can be a second car instead of a third car. The only option that is in the same price range as the BRZ is the Civic Si. Or a WRX? I think BRZ/GR86 is about as "sports car" as you can get in the 30K-60K range.
I was looking at used Evora’s but didn’t want to spend 60k. I saw the GR86 and even with less hp I figured this is a good choice. Couldn’t be happier.
Enjoy!
i totally understand what u are contemplating. u want something that feels special every time u drive it. i have a honda s660 and it's such a special occasion every time i get into it, even if it's exhausting to drive long distance, it's still worth it.
I’m excited to drive a S660 when I go to Japan in a couple months
prepare for your dignity to be destroyed every time u get out of the car, cause it's gonna be a struggle until u get used to it@@jubbalandcars
the 86/brz really is the perfect single car enthusiast solution on a budget, but yea - if I could have 2 cars I'd probably have a truck and a S2000 - if 3 cars truck, S2000 and spec miata
S2k and spec miata would be too much overlap for me. I would want a 911 or elise since diffferent engine layouts make for completely different experiences
@@jubbalandcarsI get that - I just wouldn't want to track my S2000, so in perfect world that's the miata+truck=track, then S2000 as fun weekender
I got the whiteline transmission mount insert and it made my GR86 more raw/race feeling. Highly recommend for all owners.
3:30 "moving into the EV future" I have to laugh anytime I hear something like that. Also the claim that "Everybody will have to get an EV" is so far into the future, it's peak Science Fiction.
The internal Combustion Engine (whichever fuel suits your fancy) is as good as it gets for mass and personal transportation.The EV fad is being kept alive from the top down but won't last because it does not make sense economically or environmentally.
Former BRZ23 Owner. The BRZ is better than the S2000 and ND2 RF in handling and power. The issue with the FA24 Platform is oil pressure loss in track usage. That’s mainly why I let it go. I don’t want to have issues with a warranty claim
Certain elements in handling are better, certain are worse
I swapped my GT86 for a Lotus Elise about four years ago. Not much practically but the performance and feel of it is on another planet.
Elise a much more focused drivers car
Emira is still MIA - very unfortunate. Expanding experiences as we get older is vastly more valuable than clutching onto something forever and ever (unless that's a personal desire too). Good luck!
Expanding experiences 💯
Bro, I have had a 2023 10th anniversary 86 since last April and you're right about it being refined and not hardcore enough. Lol those were my exact words I used to my wife when I told her I wanted to buy a S2000. Well I found a 08 with 31k miles on marketplace and man let me tell you... it's a dream 😂 the 86 is smooth and even enjoyable on rainy days but I still prefer to drive the S2k. The S2000 is never a bad choice! Best of luck to you in your decision making!
You get it!
just get a collection of cars
I hear you man. I got a Camaro SS 1LE 3 years ago and when it was my only car it was a tough daily because of the shock stiffness. But now that I have a second car that I daily, the 1LE is so much more fun to drive and I appreciate it way more. If you can, I’d definitely splurge for a 1LE while they’re still around for your front-engine RWD car.
Way too heavy
Agree that 6th gen Camaros are amazing values, especially 1LE variants, but expensive to track and insure. Most of those who say they are heavy and don’t handle have not turned a wheel in one on a track.
@@RichJ_youtube heavy? Yes. Great handling? Yes. But you can't hide weight or inertia. Alpha chassis is great. I'd take a 1LE over an M4/M2. But that weight is hard on all consumables as well.
@@65hi863dhyu Heavy if you compare it to cars 20 years ago sure, now it's almost the lightest in its class with its direct competitors being the Mach1, Dark Horse, M2, and Supra. Sure it's not as light as the Supra but it still feels amazing to drive in every aspect, it's a true driver's car. He said he wanted something that is more of an occasion to drive, no relatively new car is as much of an "occasion" that will feel as good on a track as the SS 1LE in my opinion, barring the Supra, but I think a V8 is way more exciting.
I was cross shopping the ZL1 against the GT350 at one point.
Since I do own a Boxster S 981, you can consider it or a Cayman S as well, it has a perfect 50/50 weight distribution. Same engine as 911 Carrera, a nice steering and PDK along with a throttle response map you can have a lot of fun and it does not breakdown that much plus you can get a PASM active suspension option which really adds to the fun. It is not too steep also you can look at GTS versions.
Keep it!!!
You’ll regret selling it
It happened to me
I re/purchased mine after 3 months
Hard to forget about it.✅✅✅✅✅
Sold it. Got an Emira. Getting a ND3 soon too
I couldn't agree with you more. I have a Civic Type R, which I have moded quite a bit in all areas, suspension, engine, gearbox, and it is transformed to a weekend car only. I have noted that the more extreme it is, the more enjoyable it is over the weekend, and the less you are going to drive it eventually, but when you do so, oh my,...
I agree, the AP2 is the next car to go. I would personally go for an Ariel Atom, if I were in your place. I hope the Lotus is not too refined too, otherwise it will have the same ending as the GR86. I recommend putting some engine mounts to your AP2, and some suspension mods to add slightly some vibrations to your seat, it really helps making it the weekend car you just described you wanna have.
I have similar feelings about my GR86, and excellent car but only 600 miles in a year as I find myself taking my modified GT86 instead for a rawer experience (family car for day to day journeys). Seems crazy as it is such a good car but feels like I need my third car to be something more special even if not as good/reliable.
We're on the same page
How does the GR86 feel compared to a modifed GT86?
@@nemohoeszA lot more refined and because the power is available lower down, you don’t have to drive it as hard which makes it less enjoyable when being used as a weekend car
I don t have any daily driver but I have two cars one in Italy (2007 european s2000, I think we got the best of both world :) and one in Hong Kong (Honda s660 with the hks 100gt kit, test pipe and specific map for 120hp, around 800kg with tons of other mods). The s2000 is my holiday toy and my track toy for when I m back to Italy. It has Ohlins and Recaro RSG which lowered the seat 5cm. It will soon have a BBK. I love to change parts with aftermarket quality parts and the way the car feel after changing them. On track it's probably as fast as a fiesta ST or Hyundai N20 but it is so much fun and it teaches you how to drive properly. The S660 won on the MX5 ND and it is so much fun even though not very fast by any means. It also let me experience a mid engine car with the engine in the back, incredible grip level and incredible agility (power to weight ratio and weight of the most pure of the lotus the elise s1 with honda reliability and modern gadgets), fantastic steering (better than the s2000) and gearbox as usual for honda. The MX5 was a very close second choice but I can always own one in europe one day while the little kei car is something special. I read that you don't consider the ND2 as exciting as the s2000 and I agree. I also read that you would enjoy a 911 for the different engine configuration and I d also love to try that. Looking forward to see your s2000
S660 looks like a lot of fun
I switched from a 330ci ZHP 6 speed to a 2006 S2000 and a Subaru Crosstrek. The BRZ/86 and ZHP are a broadly similar practical RWD 3000ish lbs sport coupes - but I learned the same thing you have around this age and income level. You don't want to combine a sports car with a daily, because you will get tired of it. It's human nature to take things for granted you can have anytime. You need to have that option to drive a sports car with all the compromises then hop into a more anonymous, numb, practical car that works with your family, friends and hobbies. It will keep your appreciation for both at a high level for far longer, especially if the sports car component is reliable like the S2K. Lots of older gentlemen with broken down "fix it someday" 60s-80s cars in their garages that end up on Junkyard Digs.
What kept the ND2 from being in consideration? Is the S2000 that much better?
Safety (being lightweight) and not in that perspective.
Miata is built to modern standards. S2000 not safe
nd2 is great but misses some of that x factor of the s2k
@@sunnyvalentino dude wants a fun car, top candidate is an s2k, but one of his main concerns is how the car will do in a crash, lol. cybertruck is faster than all of the above
@@lgbnz lol wut ,that doesn't even make no sense 😂. Faster than all of the above,I'm sure it will beat s2k in the corners /s
I don't think lightweight sports cars are fun in areas with mostly straight roads. I think it's best to have a winding road or local circuit nearby. This may explain why muscle cars are popular in the United States.
Can still make intersections fun as long as you’re turning 😃
Can’t change the sound much of the engine, other than a louder intake or going to unequal length headers.
A little difficult to remove that mild mannered refinement, it’s just the way car was made.
Oil pressure drop is pretty much solved now. Overfill helps a lot, but the new oil pan being tested from the brz900 RUclips channel does even better, even more effective than an accusump. So I’m sure in future, track reliability will improve.
I would move to an S2000 or lotus of some sort for sure if looking for more hard edge, more connection.
I hear you on the engine failure concerns, I'm sure non-tracked ones will probably have good long term reliability, but the oil starvation in right hand corners over 0.7G and all the RTV people are finding in their oil pick up filters is concerning. I would want to wait and see what people's experiences are like at 100,000 to 150,000 miles. I've also heard a lot of people don't want to deal with the spark plug changes at 60,000miles because you need to drop or lift the motor to access the heads....
Spark plugs on first gen weren’t terrible. I would imagine it’s the same here too
I beat mine within an inch of its life all the time, NCM, ToTD + another run nearby with 1000 more bends with nary a problem. AFAIK only 12 confirmed oil pressure failures. Just a note, Porsche has warnings in manuals about increased tyre grip and potential starvation issues. People running RS660s on really long bends, well.... that's part of track prep and pay to play. I place a large part of the blame on the owners for not properly prepping their track car. Even GR Cup specifically mentions they modify parts of the engine due to high G cornering.
Owned an AP1 S2000 that was supercharged. I traded it for a new, at the time, 2013 BRZ. Then a decade elapsed and I owned several different and varied sports car brands in those intervening years. I just took delivery of a 2024 BRZ. The platform has always been my favorite, looking back. So, in my case, I feel like Ive come home.
lol I’ve made the same move 1 month ago. Sold my beloved GR86 for lack of raw emotions (I had a gen1 BRZ for 9 years). The 86 is wonderful, but as life goes over I wanted a minimal, sincere and no tech car, I had a Lotus Elise from UK and I’m converting that LHD myself. I now have a toy that I see as a toy, and not as a brand new Apple car play car that I paid monthly and was scared to “touch”.
Get the AP1 S2000 and check off that box in your automotive ownership experience. Do it while they are still affordable and let Zygrene/Fenton take it for another s2000 video. There’s nothing else as satisfying in that price point.
Great take
Quick question. What phone mount is that and how do you have it plugged in? Just wondering because the USB Port is in the console?
There’s one in the dash
We need to stop accepting "ev future"
You accept an ev future?
Agreed
nobody is excepting an ev future
I always enjoy hearing your thoughts on your toy car journey. Couple things resonated with me for sure. 1st being, wanting to enjoy these cars while we can. I'm a little younger, my GR86 is my daily driving toy car. Lusting after other cars is a struggle for me. But after driving some other options, within the price point I feel like I'll keep the 86 till the wheels fall off. Will that not let me experience a higher end Combustion sports car? Maybe... If the 86 is my last one I guess I wouldn't regret it. You're taking advantage of the timing, beat up that lotus! :)
Enjoy the 86, it's a great vehicle. I'm just ready to move on after 11 years on the platform
Thats why i got an 11th gen Si.
Perfect bang for buck for a single all round enthusiast car
Compared to my IS300h I find it way more hardcore and intense, but I agree about the steering. At low speed the steering feels too Lexus like, a bit lazy, but does sharpen up a lot the faster you go. Crappy sound system and slow off the line in day to day driving are my other biggest criticisms, I always feel scared I can't pull away fast enough at a round about or junction, but maybe I'm too used to the off the line shove of the electric motors in my IS hybrid.
That looks like Texas! I plan on getting a supra as an "event" car to only be driven on weekends to preserve the specialness of the experience.
It's still a great track car, but my pick is MX-5 ND. For daily I would use something else.
Just wondering what side you're leaning towards on the s2000. The ap1 or ap2?
AP2 since I'm modding it. If I was keeping the car stock, AP1
Ap2 is the better car. Ap1 is a better s2000.
I sold my Giulia to Carvana and got back most of what I paid for it and it was super easy. We also bought 3 cars from them including my f82, so personally I had a good experience.
How did you like the Giulia? I have a 2020 and I love it. I know one day, when it's gone, I'll miss is.
Emiras are awesome but I wish you had looked into motorcycles.... you want contrast from your daily + occasion, hard to beat even a $10K middleweight.
The shit I’ve seen when I worked in the hospital…
Thanks for your thoughts on this, especially as I've kept a little bit of an eye on the GR86 and I was curious as to how it would be for a secondary or tertiary car. I may pass on the platform as, like you, I tend to swing more towards the older, raw, and visceral kinds of cars. I already have a Lexus RC as a daily as well as a Celica GT-Four and a Z3 3.0(oddly similar in power/weight to the GR86), but I also want something that I can use as a total nostalgia trip and a secondary car when I'm just tired of running an automatic to work and back.
I think the S2K would be a fine car for those purposes, though I really also lean towards getting another AE86 or SW20 MR2 for another FR or MR platform that I can have fun in and tinker with. Yes, they're far from modern but I like that about those cars; they demand more attention and more skill(both when turning the wheel or turning a wrench).
Ae86 and mr2 great options
@@jubbalandcars : I really liked both and kinda regret selling them both. I'd say the SW20 was more refined and comfortable than the AE86; there's also the option of swapping to a 2GR-FE which makes for a compelling budget alternative to an Evora. However, the AE86 is also outright iconic and I don't mind some more 'slow car fast' action.
While I am also curious about muscle cars(I've also considered a 5.0 S197 Mustang) as I haven't really owned anything above the low 300hp mark, it's difficult to really utilize those kinds of vehicles due to traffic congestion(at least where I live).
Have you considered getting a shifter kart?
😂 rolling up to the track like 😎
I feel like you consider the GR86 a "young person car" and that you outgrew it. I got mine with 47 y.o. 😅😅 Not all 40+ old people can afford a Lotus and I am glad the GR86 exists.
I would expect many older car enthusiasts to have space for a second car that's a dedicated sports car. Not a single vehicle like the GR86 that has to be their only car. Younger people usually don't have families. Older people usually can't get away with GR86 as their only car.
If the motor was more inspiring, do you think you would feel any different about it?
Possibly but I’m also not getting any younger and have been on this platform for 11 years. Want to try new things
@@jubbalandcars what are you, 36? Give me a fucking break with you and Zygrene acting like you’re old fucking men already.
A Lotus (whichever one you can afford) seems like a good choice for a weekend fun car. The 86 is decent value and good fun, but if it's just for special occasions, you can go for something a little rawer.
Tbh I’m kinda in the same boat. While I don’t have a 86 yet, I planned on getting one this year. I’ve been daily driving an 2016 IS200t for the past 4 years. I really want a corvette but I’m on the younger side. It was between a 5.0 Mustang or a GR86.
I can afford both but I’ve been fighting myself over which one id truly want because the GR86 will definitely be more engaging than my 200t but it honestly wouldn’t feel like THAT much of a departure compared to getting a mustang. Especially with how I drive in general(nothing stupid but more spirited than your average drive for sure). So idk man I’m still debating 😂. I’ve gotten use to compact low HP cars(241 with turbo rn) absolutely destroying corners but at the same time I want that raw V8 power as well.
Going from IS200 to GR86 you’ll love it. I’ve been on the platform for 10.5 years almost 11
Try an E36 BMW M3. Best hard core analog car I have ever owned. Amazing engine, no nannies, great brakes. As for the S2000, I had one and I am over 6 feet tall and was cramped in that car with no adjustable steering column. I also had an Evora 400 and it is so much better than a Porsche. Buy the E36 M3. You can get them cheap but be prepared to spend bucks on maintenance.
Just compared all the M3 generations - videos dropping soon. E46 was by far my favorite. E36 a bit disappointing
why not a nd2?
s2k is not going to be much faster or exotic compare to your current car.....how about 981 cayman/boxster, driving a MR is a totally different experience
Wow, you are so hard core!! What is on your extreme mix? Hold On?
I know I’m a little late to the video and I know it’s a little bit more expensive of a car, but I would also heavily consider the M2 competition as a great third car!
Thought he would be hating, turns out he sold me on it instead 😁
4:45 BRO yeah that is my dream car, the Lotus Emira, can't wait to see it! I already love the gr86, but I can never own a car with a boxer engine, especially for long term. For a RWD front engine rear wheel drive car I'm honestly considering a Foxbody Mustang.
I've driven many low hp low weight cars like my aw11 mr2 but I'm genuinely curious as to how a 250hp older v8 car would handle, especially with light modding. Getting more torque from almost any part of the rev range is something I really want to experience myself.
hows the gr86 compared to boat cars on freeways? is it as bad as the nd rf miata or is it manageable? i'm on the fence between getting something fun but at the same time i want a relatively comfortable experience for my girlfriend on slightly longer trips(2hrs) and from what i read the gr86 like most other sports cars doesn't really have that. can you confirm this?
the "sportiest" vehicle i've driven is a celica GTS and it was lowered quite a bit. honestly quite a terrible experience on california's broken main roads and i wasn't too happy taking my girlfriend around in it bc i always felt concerned about the comfort. it was fun driving alone but i'm now torn between a gr86/brz and a simple mazda 3
What about the Nissan z?
@@liltacticalshotgun6372 USA dealerships charge too much for it. $65-90k for $40k car. hell i've seen a dealership try to sell a nismo for 150k
I got a brz recently after driving a corolla hybrid for a while and have been driving it on 8 hour trips up and down cali and all over the place. What I noticed the first time going from san diego to SF was you really feel the cracks and bumps in the road compared to a non-sporty car. It made my back hurt for a day or two after, but the second time going SF to SD wasn't nearly as bad since I knew to avoid the cracks and bumps, no back pain.
I'm used to the ride now, but I wouldn't want to drive on cracked roads all the time. In the brz can really feel just how good the road is, even if its smooth, you can feel whether its old or new. But that is the trade off of a car with good handling.
looked it up, and it seems like you should go for gr86 over brz if you want comfort:
"Yes the 86 is the one that most reviewers have said is better for daily driving comfort wise.
The big recommendation after tires is upgrading to a set of comfort suspension. The thing is, no matter what you do to this car, it is never going to ride like a cruising car. It was made to be a bit rough." from www.gr86.org/threads/smoother-ride-recommendations-daily-driver.2545/
summary: you can feel every crack and bump in the road, its something you can get used to, avoid, or upgrade, but it can be tiresome on long trips.
@@avisillygoosewait I don't know that sounds wrong because from what I have seen and heard the gr86 is a track ready vehicle whereas the BRZ is one for daily driving and comfort so I have no idea where we got this thing where gr86 is actually good for daily driving there's a BRZ is not that just sounds weird to me
I'd recommend test driving it. I owned a GR86 and now an ND2 Miata and live in California. Don't really have problems with either in terms of comfort outside of going on long road trips to SF. For a long trip, GR86 is slightly better comfort wise. Also might feel different if you get the base vs premium model because the wheels are different
I agree. The 86 needs a little more raw and a little less refinement. Personally, between the engine issues and reliability issues, I really wished that Toyota used the B48 from BMW. I have owned a '98 JDM STi and it ended the same as all the others. If the 86 had the B48 It would have been a monster of a car, with the wicked tuning potential... Oh well.
Hi, for me you should get back to a first gen BRZ/FRS/GT86, okay you like the S2k or an ND2 for the roadster and 2 seat philosophie but I think you will be wrong leaving the BRZ platform, the 2nd gen BRZ is more comfortable and it makes it less special but if you get back to a 1st gen, you'll keep everything you like with a more exclusive feeling because of the less comfort and the old school 90s feeling. You think I'm crazy to say that but if you stayed on this platform as much as you did, it's because it's made for you, if you really prefered the S2k or the ND2, you were already on it. So in any case, you cannot be wrong and you know that better than me, do what you want and you will be happy, you'll always be able to get back on a BRZ platform gen 2 and 1 or to change for another car. Enjoy! 🥰
i love the first gen but the reason i stayed on it so long was because i was quite broke and it was my one car. now i have the ability for multiple cars, i can justify something less practical like s2k
3:33 Long live the International Combustion Engine!
I think you're chasing an impossible dream and will never be happy with any car. And I'm not saying that to belittle you. A lot of car enthusiasts are like that. I was like that a while ago. Even though I dreamt about the 86 for so long, not long after getting it I was browsing for ND2s because "it would make a better weekend getaway car".
Then I learned to enjoy my 86 in more than 1 scenario. I can enjoy tracking it, I can enjoy drifting it, I can enjoy just driving it on some windy country roads, but I also can go for groceries with it and even take 3 people in it if I absolutely have to.
This car checks more boxes than any other can, imo. It's such an easy and (relatively) cheap answer to all our needs. Maybe that's why we're seeking for more. It's the "wait, is that really it?" feeling that maybe if you get another car it will be even better than the 86. But I highly doubt it will. Unless you specifically want a track only toy.
If you didn't get Miata for safety reasons then S2k isn't any better, probably is worst. I prefer modern cars for safety reasons, if the engine on my BRZ blows, I would put built k24 in there if it costs less than 15k, solving both issues you mentioned. Hopefully k industries come up with swap kit by then.
Love the enthusiasm but I don't think I've ever seen a kswap come out to 15k even with minimal labour costs. Realistically you'll double that, and at the end you're left with an engine that is so insanely buzzy because it was never intended to fit in that package.
Valid point re safety
@@harrybuhse8622 k industries complete kit for previous gen was 9k IIRC, plus labor and actual engine. Next one would be a lot cheaper though. Joking aside, If it's not under 15k then I would probably get built short block that possibly can rev to 8k. Other option is turn key swap from sikky which is about 25k for LSx.
@@jubbalandcars with a 1 year old at home, all I think about is safety 😂.
@@ruturaj47 The kit is $10.4k, engine not included, and there are other bits and pieces that have to be bought depending on which engine you source (not included in the kit). k24s make 220whp stock so you're already approaching 15k just to install an engine that is buzzy as I said before, and less powerful than a supercharged fa20 which is cheaper, less labour intensive, and less quirks to sort out. k24 swaps only make sense if you have deep pockets and want a track build. if you decide to build the motor, you'll also have to replace the transmission to handle the extra torque which isn't cheap either. $30K in no time for an unrefined Frankenstein that you'll never get your money back out of, nor the time it takes to complete all of this.
You are getting a Lotus Emira!?! Awesome
Idk what you’re looking for in the s2000 market, or what your budget is. But i learned today that Andy Mohr Honda in Bloomington, Indiana has a 2007 AP2 for sale with only 26k miles. I believe their posted price is $37k.
Not safe to drive Miata daily ? What is that means ? phh what ?
Get an f87 m2(2018) or f87 m2comp. Plenty of power and amazing handling. I did and never looked back. Easy to make more power if needed. Can be bad with a 6spd man or dct.
No point in keeping a new car around that you aren't driving. You'd be much better off with something old-school and track-capable that won't lose value to depreciation if you drive it 3,000 miles a year. Any interest in a viper?
I doubt he wants to die in a ball of fire :p
I get the argument on a sense of occasion. But you lose me when you say you’re concerned about gr86 reliability and a 20 year old Elise or s2000 are top contenders for alternatives.
If you want a track weapon - get an ND1 Miata and because people are freaked out by the transmission issues you’ll find one on the cheap and modify it for track use and taste.
Prob score one for the low 20s and have headroom in the budget for significant modifications.
GR86 oil starvation makes the engine far more concerning than the alternatives on track
@@jubbalandcars as compared to an Elise - I call bullshit.
?? fed elise are powered by toyotas..are you suggesting they're as problem-prone as subarus?@@stms4411
I like the look and reported handling of the 86, but at the end of the day I already know that 230hp just isn't going to cut it long term. I'm leaning towards a 2000s Porsche Cayman myself, which would be my 2nd Porsche - the first being a 84' 944 when I was 16! With a stock 295hp plus bolt-ons I think 315hp should be plenty quick to keep up with the newer hot hatch market.
10 years on same platform is a long time! Time to move on! I have started on some harder bushing changes on my GR86. It is starting to get more raw and sporty. Along with CAI and exhaust, it evokes a bit more emotion now.
Hell yeah, I'm also going to continue reviewing GR86's (especially modified) on the channel to discuss the different directions one can take the car and the potential of it
I'd love to see You and Zygrene get behind the wheel of a Harrop supercharged GR86. I know counterspace garage are building one this year, but that may be track only since it's not carb certified yet. They know how to build the platform though so it would be a hell of a car to review.
Have you never driven a Mustang GT or Vette C06? Besides the GR86 I've been considering one of these for daily
You got tow hooks front and back). that’s incredible mod… (says it’s mainly stock…). Of course it’s not hardcore. lol
S2k is magical
Too bad Lotus Exige's are so expensive and rare now, my dream sportscar. I drive a 2019 86 rn.
Bro I want that as my first car , but my dad sais over 10k is too expensive for a car 😭
That’s a reasonable budget for a first car
The GR86 represents one of the only three coupes I can realistically afford new. The mustang is great but I don’t love it the way I do the 86/BRZ. The Miata is less practical and Im too tall to feel safe in it. The Z is what I really want but I cant justify the extra 15k when I think the 86 is 80% of the car for 60% of the price.
You should look at k24 Austin’s 22 BRZ turbo. 450-500 whp on stocc engine.
I’ve driven a turbo brz before. I don’t think turbos fit the character as well as the rest of the vehicle
This is my dream car. This or the FR-S and BRZ
The only people I ever hear criticizing the BRZ are people who are comparing it to much more expensive cars. I keep hearing "The BRZ is the best car for the money, but I really prefer the Lotus" or "I love the BRZ, but I still think the Porsche is a little better."
It says a lot for the BRZ that these are the cars it is being compared to.
it's a great car for the money, no doubt
The car is pretty good, but the rtv issue drive people crazy
I went to the dealership yesterday to get a quote after they called me asking to buy my 22gr86. I had 22k left to pay on it and he offered me 24k Eo basically the same amountI got for my 07 honda accord when I traded it in. After marking it up 7k when I bought it. I laughed at him and left.
Guess I’ll just get a grcorolla :/ they really gotta bring back 100% toyota!
A dude had to sell his FR-S because he's a family man. Then he fell in love with my mint-condition E36 2.8 M-Tech (modified with “higher ride height” with std suspension, Z3's quick steering rack & Torsen diff) when test driving it & wanted to buy it from me badly. I can see why -- his FR-S is inferior in almost every way -- low-end torque, steering feel, ride comfort, sound insulation, interior plushness, rear-seating room, rear visibility width & engine longevity if cornered hard.
But he had no choice & ended up getting the FK8. He's probably no gonna track it anyway...
Gonna keep my GR86. worried about RTV,but I don't track the car and my shift light is set at like4000 rpm.
😳
@@jubbalandcars2023 GR86 UPDATE?🤔... not sure if I mentioned this already- I purchased an OBD2 adapter, and I've been noticing random cylinder misfires with no warning light. It seems like it's only at idle before I drive off, and there's a little white smoke sometimes at startup. The car now has 5,000 mi,, and ive changed the oil twice already. As mentioned before, I've not really given the car a hard time at all, and in fact I'm thinking maybe that's hurt it, coupled with short trips. So, The moving average of misfires seems to stay around two or three and has been as low as one. Overall the car seems to drive perfectly fine. Worst thing that has happened is a mis-shift from 4th to 3rd, when I was trying to go to 5th. I caught it before I let the clutch out, but I still heard the RPMs for a second and it made me cringe. Not sure if that could've caused the misfires... So, the dealership of course claims they can't do anything until the check engine light comes on, so I contacted Toyota's corporate office, and they've supposedly been in contact with the dealership, to allow them to proceed with a diagnostic etc under warranty. At least there's a paper trail now... Did you ever happen to notice any misfires, or hear of anything like this?
topher is the last one left!
He told me it won’t last once the ranger arrives 🫠
Have you or friends, relatives anyone you know, problems with the manual transmission regarding synchros?
no
Dang sucks you're getting rid of it. But i completely understand for wanting something new and more raw. S2000 is definitely the right choice though.
Such a beautiful car. You are making a terrible mistake. You expect a modern car to come out of the factory in a state similar to a 20 years old platform. That's never going to happen. Of course the 20 years old s2000 is going to feel more raw than any 2020s car. Any modern car will feel more refined for that matter.
GR86 is one of the best handling cars in any price range thanks to its balanced chassis and its boxer engine with low centre of gravity. This platform just needs some modifications to make it brilliant. I have the same car and had faced the same dilemma a few months ago. Now, after l have done some modifications my car has been completely transformed into an old school analog track monster. I also have 2006 modified Lotus Elise and 2015 Alfa 4C.
Both of these cars make a S2000 feel like a luxury cruiser.
I can tell you that my 2023 modified BRZ feels as much involving and raw as both of these cars. And on top of that, it is comfortable enough to be driven daily.
Disagree. Been on the platform almost 11 years. Time for change
@jubbalandcars Well, you know what's best for you. Been there done that.
Good luck with your new car.
Love my gr86, will only sell it to upgrade to a future version of it.
Or Porsche if I win the lottery I guess lol
Sell this and get a Supercharged EG hatch with a K24z1 swap from a TSX or K20a2 from an RSX. That way youll have more content for youtube.
You can gut it out and make it hardcore for the track. 320whp in a 2100lb car would destroy so many cars.
Just a suggestion
FR > FF in my book. Even if EG modified can be a great FF
320whp EG is hardcore!
@@jubbalandcars I wonder if the people touting FWD have ever driven a RWD at the limits. I can't ever go back to FWD. 2020 MX5 MT owner.
yo my guy im looking at a gr86 for a first car how much for it
Unless your parents are buying it or ur older and just getting a car now dont even lookin in this direction. Get an frs cash with minimum insurance
Damn I want that lotus too.. but I don’t have lotus emira money so I’m looking at a type R gr 86 or Elantra n
Index link in description doesn’t work for me
Hello 👋 would you or any of you, who have this car tell me
If this car can be used daily ? To shop, work, around city etc
You can drive it daily in stock form. The Toyota GR86 will be a little more stiff than the Subaru BRZ. If you don't want to feel too much of road bumps get the BRZ.
@@Coolmaninmotion i heard that, but in uk they arent selling BRZ also where i live i have toyota service like 15 mins from my house furthermore the GR86 looks better in my opinion, but thank you for your reply i appreciat it a lot
Awesome videos man! I'm thinking about getting a daily driver sports car again. I had an RX-8 before and need something more fun to drive than this Hyundai EV. I don't plan any track time...but maybe I should!! Do you recommend any upgrades for a new 2024 GR86 Premium with the Brembo Brake Upgrade? What fluids do you recommend? It sounded like you replaced a few things right away. :)
I like Castrol SRF brake fluid. Then get camber bolts for the front. These are both very cheap. Check out my other videos for all the mods and order
Evo think the s2k is one of the most overrated cars and i agree!
Evo def not what i'm going for regarding pure sports car
Both Jethro & Sutcliffe don't like them. They're only an analog experience to low skill drivers. Otherwise, they're limp chassis & unsorted handling messes... I don't know how numb steering, a super weak chassis, overweight tedious power delivery with also poor chassis feel is considered "analog" 🤣
Z4M?
Do you still have the car and how much are you selling it for I love the color and was looking to get one
Check link in description