I think it sounds like the sharecropper business model. It was a step up from slavery, but only just that. That seems like what many of these record label artists veterans are telling us. Thank you for sharing this Curtis.
Most business models are similar to Pimping... People better stop signing these deals. TLC, warned us about the industry and there are countless others who tried to warn us.. Never take any shortcuts
360 baby, I know my old label got caught up with Better Bossiness Bureau. They gave all that money back to the artist for those who made the trial. Sh*t krazy
The same thing happened to Raye, the British singer that won 6 Brit Awards, who WAS signed to Polydor Records, a Universal Music label that sat on her for years after making her record songs in different genres and not putting out new music. She got an independent label deal which is actually distributed by a division of Sony Music.
The major record labels are basically extorting the artist. Back then, a platinum album was equivalent to 30 Million dollars. So, that was 60 Million😊😮 dollars and He still owes money.
No. A platinum album was worth $10 million dollars ($15 million on the retail side) So if he went double platinum the record label made around $20 million dollars initially.
12:55 they’re running into the record company’s shenanigans because what’s the alternative from where they stand? “Stay Independent” is a gamble. It means “stay unknown”, “stay unsuccessful”, “stay broke”. For them, “money problems” is better than “no money”.
There hasn't been a black artist yet that's been able to leverage enough of their star power early in their career to tell everybody "don't do it" while they're still popular. Media can change that real quick.
I wouldn't be surprised if there will be, if not already, keep quiet clauses in these new major label contracts. Too much been coming to light for nobody to want to retaliate
Because they're enticed with the life changing amount of money upfront with a 3 record label deal. Like Spiders Into the Web as RZA puts on the intro of Labels by GZA.
Great content, as always. I used to work at a bank lending to businesses in sports music and entertainment. I also worked at a music company in the investments team buying catalog and valuing advances for artists. There are similarities between traditional business lending and record label advances. With that being said, when you lend to a traditional business you generally know how you will get your money back and your security is typically something tangible like a building or machinery (which you can sell if things go wrong). With record label advances it is more nuanced, yes they give you money but the security is worthless to most people outside of music (what is the value of a catalogue from a no name SoundCloud rapper?) unless the artist makes a hit. Because this is a very high risk venture, labels try to stack all the chips in their favor. What most people fail to realise is that labels investing in artists is just like an equity investment in a business. You take a lot of the risk so you want most of the upside. Now whether this is fair is another topic, but it is not totally unreasonable. What I find interesting is a lot of rappers claim to come from the street, but act like they don’t know about paying the connect in full first BEFORE taking their piece. Especially if the work was consigned! Music game is the same just that the connect (label) wants their piece and a little more.
@@serenitymuszings at all. He answered their original question by calling the “beef” soft shoe and then went in. Had everybody confused but speaking on what matters.
The labels scam people and keep all the money, Michael already spoke about this in public and it was one of the things why they sent him to the other side for exposing musical slavery
Yo, I'm steady trying to figure out how Fat Joe didn't recoup when Lean Back is still being played EVERYWHERE. I feel like that Need for Speed Underground deal should have been enough.
Now these recent 'artists can keep their masters and publishing' deals are making sense. They are still loaning these artists money and by the looks of it, these music videos are becoming more and more EXPENSIVE, let alone the cost for verses. Fronting that with the hopes you make it back with your 13%, even if you own your masters and publishing, is a very risky game.
Right how the hell pac owe death row and they bailed him out for 1.5 million the mfs album for all eyes on me went platinum crazy times and he fulfilled his album with making it a double disc album and dropping makaveli as a third album to complete his three album obligation to the deal. Shug said he still owed death row money. Like how, he been paid you back the 1.5 mill off the all eyez on me album. Albums were like 15-18$ back in the day
8:49 interesting fact: a fellow BLSA law student, also an entertainer in her core like me, was doing similar research. She borrowed my sources and flipped it: I’m on the artist side of things, she sought to answer the conundrum of the logic for the label to machinate the way they do. Doing this is integral to understanding. Playing your own devil’s advocate galvanizes by fire your original hypothesis.
I understand what Fat Joe is saying but most of these guys ain’t telling you is they partied more than they had money coming in and fat Joe as a rapper is more just like a carpenter or a mason he’s just the average guy that he just found out
So what does it hat make you feel about Jay Z knowing all this now and also knowing that integrated with the people doing all this when he was already in an independent situation where he could treat artist differently. Instead he went to the other side. Things that make you say hmmm??🤔
It’s all BS I never sign for listening to Major Artis say this same thing but today I’m poor and they’re living in a mansion. I say If you’re being offered a deal sign while you can and your life will change. Don’t look at the record label’s plate look at what you are gonna get, a new life out the ghetto. Taking advice from major artist it’s a conflict of interest. I strongly believe they do that to stop the competition from coming in so they can rule for decades I don’t want to give up even when they’re old. I say BS Record companies are a blessing to music in artist. They make it happen. Better than working a 9 to 5
These are facts that everyone is going to ignore. You're absolutely correct. Fat Joe was getting interviewed by Forbes but bashing the way he got there. Knowing if he worked as a mailman, he would have never been in that meeting or space of that magnitude. I like it the more they bash the labels, the fewer people will be signed.
that's why they sign anybody NOW they ripping them ALL OFF and because they cant RIP NICKI MINAJ OFF THEY WANT AND NEED HER GONE TO PUSH THE ONES THEY HAVE ON THEIR LABELS TO RIP THEM OFF
UNDERLINED: 💳 credit cards 💳 Credit cards win 🏆 by your disturbance. Credit cards don't want you to walk the line. They're praying for your downfall, so you are their little puppet. That 🎮 game 🎯 is nasty 🤢
When you star business with an entity that handles all your money and numbers and also they don’t let audit their numbers easily….that’s smells rotten tomatoes. Once an A&R told me “the thing with artists is THEY ALL LIVE 3 INCHES ABOVE GROUND meaning the business men are the only grounded when negotiating
In order to not get scammed and be a successful artist, it is like you have to opt for B-Tier level notoriety or lower. Top tier fame is THEIR money, not YOURS. EXCEPT if you the top guy. See how it’s a ponzi/pyramid scheme? To quote the great Boots Riley of The Coup on his prophetic socioeconomic diatribe “UNDERDOGS”, “Most pyramid schemes don’t LET you cash out”. Now, I’ve met and have conversed with bro. Riley of the rap group The coup. He’s my favorite rapper for many reasons. I’ve held up an old cell phone flashlight to illuminate one of his kickstarter vids to buy an old school bus to replace his van as a tour bus. This was my favorite artist 20 some odd years after his debut. The tour van ain’t even have seats. I looked around at my crew at Project Blowed, and then forty-something Aceyalone is pushing this fire AF late model Porsche suv, while major elite Top Tier artists have come and gone in the same span and had nothing but plaques and no money. FF and Ace have never been platinum. “Success” when the money is funny < Obscurity when the money is right. That’s why Fame comes before Fortune in the phrase “Fame & Fortune”. The Fame can be YOURS, but the Fortune will always be theirs. That’s why Snoop didn’t make a solitary dollar on Death Row. But see, THAT CEO was black. They had no problems throwing HIM under the bus. You really think Suge was a gangster? What about every label exec or CEO EVER at the same time Suge was big? What about Iovine, Suge’s boss? “I don’t give a F🤬K about fame. I’d rather deal with the money. Y’all can HAVE the name.” - DJ QUIK
Much respect to Nigerian artistes. They come in with their money upfront and leave with it. Only the greedy ones sell their souls. But majority of Nigerian Afro beats artists own a majority of everything they put out. And they do not follow your rules
Labels ain’t going nowhere-- they retooled their staffs + massive cutbacks + big 3 music catalogs are massive assets. This industry is changing on both sides. Going to be very interesting what emerges 😮
I know this may not go over well, but did these artists not understand their contracts? I ask that because there seems to be a common theme amongst them that I won't get into but we also see loads of artists who have made out very well financially. I know the industry is crooked, but one has to know how it's played to succeed. You don't take the upfront advances (or spend it all), modest videos IF any to keep costs down, use your own professional studio and not the record label's. Making those simple moves right there avoids these traps. At the end of the day of course they get the biggest piece of cake because they invested the most money and took the most risk, BUT from artist's perspective damn near anything beats working a 9 to 5 doing a job you either hate or deal with just to pay bills. I would trade places in a NY minute. Offer me a multi million dollar deal and I would take it.
A lot of these people were kids early 20s and shit, probably never picked up a dictionary cuz this was the 80s and 90s. This isn't just hip hop either, This hapened in Rock as well. It's just that legal jargon is very difficult to grasp. It's like it's own type of slang. Their contracts also could've been like 50+ pages long ORRR you can take the millions. Without looking up any new words. Have you read an HP Lovecraft short story before? Without knowing the meanings of the excessively large scholarly words he uses. It's not an easy read and this was intended for reading. Law and Contracts is just something else which is typically why they tell you to get a lawyer.
Being young is no excuse for not understanding what they were saying signing just as ignorance of the law is not a justifiable defense. Those basic things I mentioned is just common sense and second people know you always get an attorney to review a contract prior to execution because contract law is tedious and convoluted. My parents taught me in the 80s to never sign something you do not understand and always read what you are signing. These people just saw fame and dollar signs and nothing else.
I don't mean this disrespectfully ...but i feel like mixed people are entitled to their opinions....BUT we need to make it known that they are 3rd party and that they are claiming native to either mother or fathers lineage....same problem when this "nation" was founded....all these 3rd 4th and so on ethnicities they recorded as census as they continued to change racial names and lay claims to nativity with a homestead....alot of "black" ppl leaders have been mixed ppl"... Some with dual citizenship...long story short i appreciate you and being open you have alot of good points but u said it yourself we need aome people in the world to really get uncomfortable and in the public eye 👁️
For the dummies that don’t know these things .. put the video game down and listen to some GROWN UP MUSIC PODCAST and learn how it’s done ..what to do and not to do...
I think it sounds like the sharecropper business model. It was a step up from slavery, but only just that. That seems like what many of these record label artists veterans are telling us. Thank you for sharing this Curtis.
This!!!!!!!!!!!
Most business models are similar to Pimping... People better stop signing these deals. TLC, warned us about the industry and there are countless others who tried to warn us.. Never take any shortcuts
360 baby, I know my old label got caught up with Better Bossiness Bureau. They gave all that money back to the artist for those who made the trial. Sh*t krazy
CK you the real MVP , independence is not easy but can lead to prosperity when the stars align and you ain’t afraid to grind 🙏🏽
Look at TINASHE she is
Independent and doing
Her Thing. Making Hit
After Hit.
The same thing happened to Raye, the British singer that won 6 Brit Awards, who WAS signed to Polydor Records, a Universal Music label that sat on her for years after making her record songs in different genres and not putting out new music. She got an independent label deal which is actually distributed by a division of Sony Music.
Wow that’s crazy thanks for the information
The major record labels are basically extorting the artist. Back then, a platinum album was equivalent to 30 Million dollars. So, that was 60 Million😊😮 dollars and He still owes money.
No. A platinum album was worth $10 million dollars ($15 million on the retail side) So if he went double platinum the record label made around $20 million dollars initially.
@@jifffy999 thats 20m just from sales n we aint even talking tour money yet (im not saying fat joe was in a 360)
That Eisenhower meme with MATH NOT ADDING UP GOT ME LAUGHING TEARS OUT MY EYE BRA 😂 😂 😂 DAT ISH IS HILLARIOUS
Back in the day I understood distribution but today with streaming services I don’t understand what are labels distributing lol
12:55 they’re running into the record company’s shenanigans because what’s the alternative from where they stand? “Stay Independent” is a gamble. It means “stay unknown”, “stay unsuccessful”, “stay broke”. For them, “money problems” is better than “no money”.
There hasn't been a black artist yet that's been able to leverage enough of their star power early in their career to tell everybody "don't do it" while they're still popular. Media can change that real quick.
I wouldn't be surprised if there will be, if not already, keep quiet clauses in these new major label contracts. Too much been coming to light for nobody to want to retaliate
In the United States, it would be difficult to enforce because artists technically aren't employees.
itz called a non-discloser agreement (NDA) & they do it all the time, and there's gonna be way more of that comin...
Yes independent is the way to go…
You’re right
When will people learn!!!! I pray this next wave of artist wake up
Exactly
We already have
Because they're enticed with the life changing amount of money upfront with a 3 record label deal. Like Spiders Into the Web as RZA puts on the intro of Labels by GZA.
Lizzo: I QUIT!
Label: No the F you not. Here’s your bill.
Lizzo: hey y’all I was kidding 😅
Those 360 deals take you every time.
Great content, as always.
I used to work at a bank lending to businesses in sports music and entertainment. I also worked at a music company in the investments team buying catalog and valuing advances for artists.
There are similarities between traditional business lending and record label advances. With that being said, when you lend to a traditional business you generally know how you will get your money back and your security is typically something tangible like a building or machinery (which you can sell if things go wrong). With record label advances it is more nuanced, yes they give you money but the security is worthless to most people outside of music (what is the value of a catalogue from a no name SoundCloud rapper?) unless the artist makes a hit. Because this is a very high risk venture, labels try to stack all the chips in their favor.
What most people fail to realise is that labels investing in artists is just like an equity investment in a business. You take a lot of the risk so you want most of the upside.
Now whether this is fair is another topic, but it is not totally unreasonable.
What I find interesting is a lot of rappers claim to come from the street, but act like they don’t know about paying the connect in full first BEFORE taking their piece. Especially if the work was consigned! Music game is the same just that the connect (label) wants their piece and a little more.
This is what Vince Staples was talking about on the Joe Budden podcast when asked about “Kendrick v Cole rap beef”.
But they weren't trying to listen to that
@@serenitymuszings at all. He answered their original question by calling the “beef” soft shoe and then went in. Had everybody confused but speaking on what matters.
The labels scam people and keep all the money, Michael already spoke about this in public and it was one of the things why they sent him to the other side for exposing musical slavery
Yo, I'm steady trying to figure out how Fat Joe didn't recoup when Lean Back is still being played EVERYWHERE. I feel like that Need for Speed Underground deal should have been enough.
🤯
😂😂😂…this sounds like the Real Muthaphuckin’ G’z video Eazy-E did lol
Love the these videos man. This is so cool to hear all these stories. Things you never hear about.
I’ll say this, “just bc it’s In a contract doesn’t make it legal.”
Dude ain't even fat anymore, but they still chasing him for money 😆
Now these recent 'artists can keep their masters and publishing' deals are making sense. They are still loaning these artists money and by the looks of it, these music videos are becoming more and more EXPENSIVE, let alone the cost for verses. Fronting that with the hopes you make it back with your 13%, even if you own your masters and publishing, is a very risky game.
Why's that dude keep over-talking Joyner Lucas like that?
Good stuff tho.
He might be ahead of that department and is very passionate about it.
Right how the hell pac owe death row and they bailed him out for 1.5 million the mfs album for all eyes on me went platinum crazy times and he fulfilled his album with making it a double disc album and dropping makaveli as a third album to complete his three album obligation to the deal. Shug said he still owed death row money. Like how, he been paid you back the 1.5 mill off the all eyez on me album. Albums were like 15-18$ back in the day
Shug Is greatest nightmare
Great video really informative. Direct to consumer is the future.
8:49 interesting fact: a fellow BLSA law student, also an entertainer in her core like me, was doing similar research. She borrowed my sources and flipped it: I’m on the artist side of things, she sought to answer the conundrum of the logic for the label to machinate the way they do.
Doing this is integral to understanding. Playing your own devil’s advocate galvanizes by fire your original hypothesis.
I understand what Fat Joe is saying but most of these guys ain’t telling you is they partied more than they had money coming in and fat Joe as a rapper is more just like a carpenter or a mason he’s just the average guy that he just found out
So what does it hat make you feel about Jay Z knowing all this now and also knowing that integrated with the people doing all this when he was already in an independent situation where he could treat artist differently. Instead he went to the other side. Things that make you say hmmm??🤔
I like your channel bro. You have good content and good vibes. Through spirit bro through spirit. I’ve become a fan 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Always love the videos boss, much love from Texas
Thanks for sharing this!
It’s all BS
I never sign for listening to Major Artis say this same thing but today I’m poor and they’re living in a mansion.
I say If you’re being offered a deal sign while you can and your life will change.
Don’t look at the record label’s plate look at what you are gonna get, a new life out the ghetto.
Taking advice from major artist it’s a conflict of interest.
I strongly believe they do that to stop the competition from coming in so they can rule for decades I don’t want to give up even when they’re old. I say BS
Record companies are a blessing to music in artist. They make it happen.
Better than working a 9 to 5
These are facts that everyone is going to ignore. You're absolutely correct. Fat Joe was getting interviewed by Forbes but bashing the way he got there. Knowing if he worked as a mailman, he would have never been in that meeting or space of that magnitude. I like it the more they bash the labels, the fewer people will be signed.
that's why they sign anybody NOW they ripping them ALL OFF and because they cant RIP NICKI MINAJ OFF THEY WANT AND NEED HER GONE TO PUSH THE ONES THEY HAVE ON THEIR LABELS TO RIP THEM OFF
Must be why he fw the MLMs, he used to pyramid schemes 😅
You Have to Respect TINASHE
She stayed INDEPENDENT
And she has been putting
Out HIT after HIT with NO
Major Label.
Wasn't she signed to RCA (which is owned by Sony)?
You don’t need a label anymore get in tune w the producers and engineers
It's a cutthroat business
Stay independent. 💯
4:44 this is the exact question my law school thesis in 2002 was about.
Thx for the vid and the great insight! Bruh, this is crazy!!
X said it back in 99/00..."sign a record deal get a loan, vs make a movie, and get cut a check for your work.
I don’t see why the majors don’t see the scheme is up lol😂
UNDERLINED: 💳 credit cards 💳
Credit cards win 🏆 by your disturbance.
Credit cards don't want you to walk the line.
They're praying for your downfall, so you are their little puppet.
That 🎮 game 🎯 is nasty 🤢
When you star business with an entity that handles all your money and numbers and also they don’t let audit their numbers easily….that’s smells rotten tomatoes.
Once an A&R told me “the thing with artists is THEY ALL LIVE 3 INCHES ABOVE GROUND meaning the business men are the only grounded when negotiating
In order to not get scammed and be a successful artist, it is like you have to opt for B-Tier level notoriety or lower. Top tier fame is THEIR money, not YOURS. EXCEPT if you the top guy. See how it’s a ponzi/pyramid scheme? To quote the great Boots Riley of The Coup on his prophetic socioeconomic diatribe “UNDERDOGS”, “Most pyramid schemes don’t LET you cash out”. Now, I’ve met and have conversed with bro. Riley of the rap group The coup. He’s my favorite rapper for many reasons. I’ve held up an old cell phone flashlight to illuminate one of his kickstarter vids to buy an old school bus to replace his van as a tour bus. This was my favorite artist 20 some odd years after his debut. The tour van ain’t even have seats.
I looked around at my crew at Project Blowed, and then forty-something Aceyalone is pushing this fire AF late model Porsche suv, while major elite Top Tier artists have come and gone in the same span and had nothing but plaques and no money. FF and Ace have never been platinum.
“Success” when the money is funny < Obscurity when the money is right. That’s why Fame comes before Fortune in the phrase “Fame & Fortune”. The Fame can be YOURS, but the Fortune will always be theirs. That’s why Snoop didn’t make a solitary dollar on Death Row. But see, THAT CEO was black. They had no problems throwing HIM under the bus. You really think Suge was a gangster? What about every label exec or CEO EVER at the same time Suge was big? What about Iovine, Suge’s boss?
“I don’t give a F🤬K about fame. I’d rather deal with the money. Y’all can HAVE the name.” - DJ QUIK
Crazy he still owe after all these years😮
Yup Curtis King this is reality I was going to let you know about what Father Joe said about record labels
this shit is revolutionary. 🔥🔥🔥
Sounds like his first album aint really break out of the red so it carried over to the second
Wow ok thanks I didn’t think about that
Sometimes, I think to myself…. Why focus on Music
how you retire your mom with 50K
D. I. Y..... The only way to go!!!!!!!
Duh, that's y I stopped. THEY took it
It's a slippery slope
Yeah that Joyner interview was a good piece
Much respect to Nigerian artistes. They come in with their money upfront and leave with it. Only the greedy ones sell their souls.
But majority of Nigerian Afro beats artists own a majority of everything they put out. And they do not follow your rules
How come Drake's career didn't go like that tho when he got signed with YOUNG MONEY/Cash Money ?!
So, what is the solution? At the end of the day for an artist to scale he / she will need bread 🥖.
Labels ain’t going nowhere-- they retooled their staffs + massive cutbacks + big 3 music catalogs are massive assets. This industry is changing on both sides. Going to be very interesting what emerges 😮
Maybe that is a show topic - What will the music industry look like in 10 years?
@@michaelmathews3469that’s a good question
@@michaelmathews3469who are the big 3
Good video, very informative.
I know this may not go over well, but did these artists not understand their contracts? I ask that because there seems to be a common theme amongst them that I won't get into but we also see loads of artists who have made out very well financially. I know the industry is crooked, but one has to know how it's played to succeed. You don't take the upfront advances (or spend it all), modest videos IF any to keep costs down, use your own professional studio and not the record label's. Making those simple moves right there avoids these traps. At the end of the day of course they get the biggest piece of cake because they invested the most money and took the most risk, BUT from artist's perspective damn near anything beats working a 9 to 5 doing a job you either hate or deal with just to pay bills. I would trade places in a NY minute. Offer me a multi million dollar deal and I would take it.
A lot of these people were kids early 20s and shit, probably never picked up a dictionary cuz this was the 80s and 90s. This isn't just hip hop either, This hapened in Rock as well. It's just that legal jargon is very difficult to grasp. It's like it's own type of slang. Their contracts also could've been like 50+ pages long ORRR you can take the millions.
Without looking up any new words. Have you read an HP Lovecraft short story before? Without knowing the meanings of the excessively large scholarly words he uses. It's not an easy read and this was intended for reading. Law and Contracts is just something else which is typically why they tell you to get a lawyer.
Being young is no excuse for not understanding what they were saying signing just as ignorance of the law is not a justifiable defense. Those basic things I mentioned is just common sense and second people know you always get an attorney to review a contract prior to execution because contract law is tedious and convoluted. My parents taught me in the 80s to never sign something you do not understand and always read what you are signing. These people just saw fame and dollar signs and nothing else.
maybe labels should loan artists instead of owning masters based of thier initial investment
GZA - Labels is a dope track that talks about this.
He'd probably get arrested 😂
Is that J Fold on your shirt?
1:00 Today is June 27th 2024 pm central time USA
I don't mean this disrespectfully ...but i feel like mixed people are entitled to their opinions....BUT we need to make it known that they are 3rd party and that they are claiming native to either mother or fathers lineage....same problem when this "nation" was founded....all these 3rd 4th and so on ethnicities they recorded as census as they continued to change racial names and lay claims to nativity with a homestead....alot of "black" ppl leaders have been mixed ppl"... Some with dual citizenship...long story short i appreciate you and being open you have alot of good points but u said it yourself we need aome people in the world to really get uncomfortable and in the public eye 👁️
ONE ☝🏾 piece of advice to a new artist who knows nothing? Read Donald Passman’s “Everything You Need to Know About the Music Industry”.
🤦🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️ Wow
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🙏
Fake screaming at your kids so the teacher could stop calling you is crazyyy 🤣 nah labels are sick
💯💯💯💯💯
DOMARK BEATS - Nacty C On Ice ( Diss Track ) Response To Nacty C's Compress 2024 Track. Part 3. His Fans Are Making Excuses. South Africa
🎧👀
💪🏼🥶
But everybody wanna be rappers 🤔
For the dummies that don’t know these things .. put the video game down and listen to some GROWN UP MUSIC PODCAST and learn how it’s done ..what to do and not to do...
Would you record me
This sounds sus...
I wish you'd respond to my emails to give me access to the course I bought.
i don't put out songs because i will not be robbed i lose my shit with some pos plays with me/my $$$$ i'm not nice ! idc about being famous
he ate out too much, ran up the tabs