@@Yukkutastic Ah yes, the item in which only AD assassins can build. You might be can squeeze it onto some other champions here and there, but they usually need other items first.
Yeah and because of lifesteal we need grievous wounds to prevent it but grievous wounds also stops the enchanters whose kit is based around healing like soraka nami or yuumi from being able to do they're job because they cant heal. So then they have to buff how much they heal for so they can do their job while grievous wounds is on someone. But that also means that when someone isn't affected by grievous wounds they heal for a ridiculous amount.
I will never understand why champions like Aatrox and Fiddlesticks get their healing cut or removed but the new assassins with 4 dashes and a blink can also heal and go untargetable.
I said this before in another comment, but yesterday I had a game of azir against Yasuo, got a really good trade off him and bursted him for most of his health, and then he just dashed through one minion wave, healed all his health, burst me for most of my health and ending up healthier than he was before the initial trade. Kinda bs
i hated this favouritism for new champions, there heal is so broken and it makes champions like aatrox and vlad useless, there kits has built in healing and yone can match or heal more then them and vlad takes damage to do damage so he's is healing is necessary.
Shieldbow might just be the most horrible and unfun to play against item I've seen since I started playing in season 4. You need the anti-shield item and a grievious wounds item to counter it and, by then, the usual Shieldbow champions have already scaled to the point it's useless to itimize against it anyway.
@@ip5676 maybe shieldbow would be okay if it was purchased only by champions with a bow (ranged). melee champions already have tons of sustain and durability
Yea my least favorite thing is when you ‘win’ a trade and say they come out w 1/2 their hp and you come out with 3/4 but then they heal all their health back and it’s like you just took 1/4 damage for nothing.
So much this, and not just cause dealing with healing is annoying, but it cheapens enchanters kits, look at soraka, she has to HURT HERSELF to heal a small amount, and her ult heals everyone, for a similarly small amount, yasuo can literally heal himself faster then soraka can....while dealing high amounts of damage with insane mobility and cc
@@sahelanthropus4991 and here i thought we play lol for diverse and engaging gameplay with multitude of different champions and archetypes. How wrong i was...
@@MrLuzakman we do that but only as riot dictates it to. The game have never been as balanced as it is today champions-wise, however the gap between roles are drastic
For real, you can’t even play a tank *support* without picking up at least thornmail early on. Maybe even first if your up against a samira or aphelios.
@@captainkizer It's ok because his entire kit revolves around healing. Meanwhile Yone accomplishes the same amount of healing but could also do something else.
@@captainkizer he has no other survivability, it's like why some champs take bone plating over second wind, Irelia's W blocks way more damage than aatrox heals, and irelia ALSO HAS HEALING, aatrox has nothing other than healing. Same with Mundo, Renekton, Mordekaiser, etc.
Something else to mention is that healing is one of the few stats with accelerating returns. The more healing you have, the longer you live, and the longer you live the more often you can trigger your heal before dying.
It's just....the champs that DEPEND on the healing in their kit/who have healing as a part of their identity (warwick, aatrox etc.) are getting fucked big time because they usually dont buy lifesteal items and therefore don't increase the amount they heal (they do scale on level but not insanely high). Meanwhile we have 4 healing runes in precision and domination, a common rune set for adc and champs like irelia and yasuo. Those runes combined with builds including immortal shieldbow, bloodthirster, ravenous hydra, BOTRK and/or more makes lifesteal too strong because you can only buy 1 antiheal per champ. While the champs NOT building lifesteal barely increase their lifesteal or sacrifice an itemslot for an off-build lifesteal item suffer immensely from the 70% less healing. Champs like Yasuo that build immortal shieldbow and bloodthirster for both the crit AND the lifesteal get so much value out of both items that they can easily stack it, making the grievous wounds irrelevant. Yeah you are still cutting 70% of the healing, but a yasuo will still heal 150 hp per auto (which is a lot). Remove some of the lifesteal runes so that not every champ can have 10+% lifesteal (excluding kit lifesteal) without building any lifesteal items and it will be WAY better.
I mean,life steal and omnivamp shouldn't exist as items other than for adcs to buy vamp scepter and that's it But aatrox,kayn and those who are supposed to heal should reallllly get a buff this meta And if they do remove lifesteal and omnivamp items they should finally nerf grievous so actual champs who are supposed to heal up actually heal
@@fitmotheyap Tyler1 said jungle in season 11 was overpowered because of emberknife and hailblade giving to much healing and mana do u think jungle vamp should be nerfed?
@@williamsmith6364 the healing part should be hella reduced,mana can be kept otherwise champs such as kayn,amumu and others won't even work and rengar,lee and others would dominate
@@fitmotheyap I think is a problem leashing both gromp and blue or raptors and red togethet because of the immense healing too such as fiddle hecarim kayn or poppy to contest scuttle at a lvl 4 advantage.
Enchanters should do a ton of healing,that's what they are good at. And the problem isnt enchanters' heals. The problem is lifesteal and omnivamp. Even enchanters like Sona,Yuumi can't do as much healing as skirmisher/bruiser items. oh and yone,viego
Ya i wanted to play a healer class, until I realized warwick makes soraka healing look like garbage. Healing focused enchanters honestly suck... unless you build them full ap.
i was gona be like just play janna and then i remembered serpents fang is in the game so just use hard cc i guess. just have half your kit countered and live with it :D
@@noellenyx Only viable supports must have a kit full of cc, tank, or just be a dps themselves. True support is not viable anymore, prove me wrong that a healer soraka is not objectively worse than a Nautilus, Leona, or Senna (that heals better than soraka and often out damages her adc, or is the adc)
I don’t think that healing itself is broken. but lifesteal… bruhhh, it’s completely broken. for example, samira can be a fcking bruiser with Immortal Shieldbow
@@bakamitai3462 unless ya know, you are ap and if you ever tried to play an artilery mage vs a minimum brain [anything that can go life steal] you know its shit also dont forget yone and yas and irelia all can get to you very easily even when you are positioned well gl playing that entire small but still class
@@bakamitai3462 imagine that there are champions that don’t build lethality and serpent’s fang is THE ONLY item in the game, which denies shields. And also imagine I was talking only about samira+shieldbow combo, not them separately
@@NoOne-qi4tb Not every champ can attack out of his range, an unlike him, not every champ have a dash. The point is that he shouldn't be healing that much at the point at forcing you to buy GW or gg
I'd also like to add, with too much sustain "outplaying" is becoming more of who heals the most as to who played the best. Just look at any Sylas "outplay" when he was released, 99% of the outplay was outshielding and healing them.
when fighter are harder to kill than tanks... i think we got a problem champions with sustain arent even special anymore since anyone can get it with runes and items
A long time ago an R from my soraka would turn a 0/6 yasuo into a montage machine. Now the healing is like if someone got drunk on health pots and farted into my team's faces.
They introduced more healing over all as a solution to the high damage champions were dealing, and as a consequence, sustained damage was no longer viable, making eveyone opt for even more damage, enough for one shotting the enemy instead. I always enjoy a textbook example of irony.
Lifesteal in the game rn is here for the same reason the last 20 champs have been the way they are: they make for flashy outplays. Riot balances for proplay, but they dont want balance per se, they want to get good clips and they love when some proplayer gets a penta with buffed irelia with conqueror, lifesteal runes, triumph and a few items
self-healing vs third party - heaing is what I believe should be discussed and focused down by community and riot, I'm not agains't self-healing (me being a samira main) but sometimes it is not rational that you are able to heal yourself 10,000 health by yourself when there is a dedicated groupof champions destined for this (this being the enchanters), I believe something to take in consideration is self-healinf should be considered as soft-healing (like this ones should be way lower than it is or should be affected way more by griwvous wounds) and a thidr party - healing should be considering hard-healing (being less affected by grievoud since it is not you who has control over it but a teammate), I belive this could be a very good point for discussion as I said, not just for Riot but for the community to really know what is the core problem with this everlasting fight of not who can outplay the other onw but who can outheal it's opponent
that wouldn't work because multiple champions like Dr. Mundo, Aatrox and Renekton NEED that healing to even be playable, Nami would become overpowered and so would yuumi. You'd have to tweak so many champions in order for a system like this to work and it's not really worth it IMO because the balancing would be way harder than it is now.
@@liandrysanguishinshin7955 I don't agree, It would be the same level of difficulty at the start (which would reduce during the long term), but at least there will be more clarity with Self-heal vs. 3rd party heal power. if I'm playing soraka and im being out healed by my or the enemy team's top laner or adc, that doesn't feel fair. reconstructing the healing system (like they did for the movement speed) isn't impossible nor unreasonable it's very much doable, the main argument against it is, it's not as fun. also, you wouldn't have to increase the healing for yuumi nor nami, you'll only be reducing the healing for other characters, and after they are in a good spot you balance the enchanters so their heals can be strong but not overpowering.
@@pietoeat9750 so how would you counter a soraka that's ahead? Top soraka would become a thing again too, + champions arent really overpowered because of healing, it's the items that are overtuned, what champions would you nerf? Other than maybe viego or irelia i don't see any.
@@liandrysanguishinshin7955 didn't you hear the second half? I clearly said to balance them out so enchantress can be strong but not over powered, and that's an easy fix, reduce the self heal soraka recieves or up the q's cooldown by a second or 2 or reduces the regeneration or reduce the ap scaling, to answer your easy question. There are options and there are solutions to alot of problems if you think about it, but to close off the possibility because you refuse to think of the solutions and are content with the issues, is something I don't agree with. The self heal gives characters and classes a way to overcome their designed weaknesses, and an unfair advantage in a fight. If a character can heal half their heal off of a few minions (gwen, kayle, yi, yas, yone, samira, vlad, fiddle, Darius, etc) that's an unfair advantage. And yes the items and the characters just like the movement speed overhaul.
@@pietoeat9750 The problem isn't self healing vs 3rd party healing. It's built in healing(abilities and passives) vs added healing(items and runes). All the champs that have built in healing in their kits are fine. You could make the argument that vlads healing is over the top, but thats literally the purpose of playing him, that's what makes him unique. The champs that are healing 0-100 are champs that gain healing from items and runes, because their damage is so absurdly high that any healing percentage added makes their healing ridiculous. Personally I think healing from items and runes should be drastically nerfed. Someone without healing in their kit really shouldn't be able to have more than 10% lifesteal of any kind.
Personally I don’t think there’s too much healing in itself, but lifesteal from kits, items and runes honestly shouldn’t exist because it makes the game and champions 10x harder to balance.
@@jei3419 not like anyone actually plays around with the runes in ranked play, everyone just picks whatever runes are meta on the champion and call it a day. Like why would I ever take any other rune without omnivamp on yasuo yone or irelia
@@sunburn8273 so you want a a melee champions like garen to be bullied by Quinn/Vayne? without second wind, Fleet Footwork, you think you would survive the laning phase as a garen ?
True, tbh I think it should just be a health item rather than a specific resist, that way it doesn't completely screw over AD champs in lane while feeling worthless against AP
AD champs get two, AP and tank champs only get one item. (enchanter) supports also only get one, but that is mostly made up for the fact that it can apply the grievous from multiple people's attacks
@@N12015 I mean Sylas still autos a lot because of his passive but I think the main point is that armor is basically worthless against both of them since the bulk of their damage is magic, and as a rush in lane it can feel really really bad to drop 800g on stats that are more or less worthless.
Riot removes abyssal mask when liandries gets giga buffed and demonic embrace gets added, you think they care about tanks being able to itemize against AP?
Will you make a series called "How to play against" where you can tell us what we could do against those more annoyingly strong/ or just plain annoying champs?
"Remember when you needed to 5-man Baron and have a dedicated tank to draw aggro?" I play since 2015 (more or less), but I haven't witnessed those times.
What he said was an exaggeration but it still applies. You'd actually need teammates before even if you were pretty fed. Now you can do any objective with a lot of ease.
@@Onaterdem The problem being worse before doesn't mean it isn't a problem now. And you just said in your opinion so yeah no shit we're gonna talk about it if what you say has no factual basis
@@bevvvy1374 It does, actually, but for some champions, not all. And I specifically meant lifesteal, not healing in general, sorry about that. Do you remember season 10 Master Yi with Conqueror and Guinsoo's and BOTRK and Wit's End and Death's Dance healing from 0 to 100 in a matter of, like, milliseconds? They completely gutted item sustain for the duellist class that built those items and instead buffed ADC lifesteal. Since "solo-Baron"ers are most usually duellists, as a jungle main, I do think that soloing Baron is less of a problem than it has been in season 10, or 9, or 8, 7, 6, and 5 as well.
@@Onaterdem ahh yes the 15 percent omnivamp dd with also 30 armor and magic resist and 30 percent dmg bleed Tottally balanced item yes yes And the rb with 15 armor and magic pen The new items atleast make somewhat more sense But not rly
You know what's stupid? If you're a tank and you're against an aatrox or a fiora you buy bramble vest, armor and healing reduction are a perfect counter But if you're against a sylas or an Akali... You still buy a bramble vest, but you run the risk of getting one shot because armor is useless
@@peturch.2656 Gwen is the worst of them all, just look at her playrate in pro and youll see, super safe(untargetability), high mobility, high damage, a w that is strong as an ultimate, can melt tanks or entire teams, while outsustaining champions like Aatrox who made around healing
I just want them to remove healing Only actual healers are supposes to heal like sylas,mundo,aatrox,kayn etc Or just remove immortal,that item is to blame the most
Vars, can you do a video talking about leages bosses (baron, dragon, etc), y personally think they are not bosses anymore because you can do them so quickly and sometimes even solo. It doesn't require much setup to pull of for the buffs they grant
The bigest challenge about doing "bosses" is enemy team. However, you're sort of right because nowadays all you need is to kill one enemy so it's 5v4 and you have a free objective.
@@gabrieldoyen692 giving him lifesteal i think would be very good as it would make it take more time, thus making it that you have to be more prepared as a team so that even games would take longer to finish and wouldn't be so 1 team fight coinflip
Making bosses more harder and giving them more mr would make it so having an adc in your team would be essential to take out obj and a tank to tank it, maybe buffing obj is all it takes to make classes be needed again
I'd like to see the bosses as being things you actually have to pay attention to and outplay, rather than just being stat sticks. It would be neat if one skilled player could solo Baron at a low level, even if it took them 2 uninterrupted minutes to do so, and it would make it harder to both keep an eye on the map for the enemy team and fight at the same time. Baron has a few dodgeable attacks but that hardly counts.
Because if it wast any poke mage would completely invalidate every singl adc in the game. Lifesteal has been in the game sinse the beginning and it wasn’t nearly as problematic i would say like 4 years ago. The problem is the sheer amount off healing and lifesteal options that exist now. If an adc heals 30hp for every minion hit then it would be ok, but they heal 200hp from every minion hit. That is the problem
@@NeuviletteBR ADCs aren't the issue, it's just skirmishers like Yasuo, yone, Irelia, etc. that ruin life steal. I don't care about ADCS healing a lot because you can just one shot them in the current meta anyway
@@carnifex423 but adcs will win in teamfights or at least they should(as a velkoz player I know that’s not true lol), that’s the idea poke forces an enemy to team fight or slowly dying. it’s swapping team fighting for poke
I like how you're using Enchanter heals in the thumbnail when Self Healing in the main issue. Sona has trash heals, Soraka gets murdered by GW and Yuumi doesnt rly care(because she has other utility)
I haven't watched this yet, but I imagine you're going to talk about how Grievous affects those that don't obnoxiously heal a lot, and those that heal the damage they will be taking two months from now don't get affected by Grievous nearly at all.
I would nerf gw but buffvit against healing from items. See yone and moonstaff. Because buffing it against self heals would really hurt all champs with self heal in their kit since they were initially balanced around it.
@@nicojokelin5547 yea basically thats the strat, because this meta hurts naturally healing champs by design like soraka, zac, aatrox, mundo and vlad. of course, vlad is dumb right now, but you get my point
Champs heal for 200% these days instead of 100% so buying anti heal doesn’t do shit these days. Too much healing in items and in champions their kit. Gives to much sustain in lane.
I feel like healing reduction items aka GW, should focus more on reducing self healing from champions, either reducing their offense stats, reducing their damage overall or even reducing the amount of vamp they have. Mathematically would maintain the purpose of the items while also allowing enchanters (who are actually suppose to be healing) to be able to do something in the current meta.
Morello left and Riot memorized him with Morellonamicon, the mage heal cut. according to what i heard he was the one Rioter opposed to healing and when he finally left healing grew everywhere.
Healers are fine because every competitive game with different hero archetypes has some sort of healing character (medic from TF2, Mercy from Overwatch) but the problem comes in when champions have healing built into them automatically. I’m not against lifesteal but the problem is that there’s too much of it and it forces you to get grievous wounds, and for some champions like Aatrox or Yasuo, even if your team has full grievous wounds it’s not enough to take them out.
yea but those characters are always too simple/boring/easy and they are impossible to balance because of how simple they are. just like how a pocket mercy can turn any hero into a god all it takes is a funny looking cat to turn 2/5/3 yone into a god as well. he’ll even if you get grevious it won’t work because a lot of champs get way over 100%(sometimes even getting up to 190%) and a 40-60% redux simply won’t work
I'm an Ekko one-trick and I absolutely despise Sylas. Past level 6, Sylas just becomes an Ekko that skirmishes better, sustains more, does more damage, heals more and has Ekko ult. If I can't shut him down pre-6 then we might as well FF.
Finally a good, unbiased, properly analytical video. Here's how personally I would tackle this issue: Make GW stack, each stack reduces healing further by 10%, starting from 30% up to a maximum of 80 or 90%. - GW components (Bramble vest, Oblivion Orb, Executioner's Calling) give 1 stack (30% reduced healing). - GW items with their basic effects give 2 stacks (40% reduced healing). - GW items with their special extra effects (like damaging an enemy below half health with Morello) give 3 stacks (50% reduced healing). - Other teammates with their own GW items can apply more stacks too. So, let's say you have Mortal Reminder with its special effect (3) and your teammates have an oblivion orb (1) and a Thornmail with its basic effect (2), that's a total of 6 stacks for 80% reduced healing, which may sound like a lot, but that required 3 members of your team (including you) to have GW items and apply GW at the same time. I think this is a fair way of rewarding teams that commit to purchasing GW and punishing players who try to drain tank multiple enemies at a time.
"Just buy Grievous wounds." >Irelia still heals to full from 20% with two minion hops and a Q onto you because BotRK exists. Viego's sustain is an infuriating benefit of his kit. The fact he has untargetability during the soul hop is just icing on the cake. Is there too much healing in the game? Yes, but only on *certain* champions. Sylas heals too much for an engage/diving champion. Irelia being mentioned before, etc. Healer/Enchanter viability is kind of pushed out when allllllll these other avenues of healing are open. Why have a Soraka when you can just buy Goredrinker + BotRK? Why have a Nami when you can use Conqueror+Bloodthirster+Natural Regen (Sett).
I think the Lifesteal-Part is the biggest problem, as it makes squishy-high-damage-champs unkillable with one item (yes, shieldbow is stupid) while still dealing the most damage. That is just frustrating to play against.
Liandry's isn't an antitank item. Anyone who has used Liandries knows that the % health magic damage is mitigated easily by magic resist. It is, like magic pen, more effective on squishies.
Yes it is. I've fought a fed Nasus as Zyra without him being able to do anything because his healthbar would go down before he could reach me. Zyra's E slow and root was a big factor though, but I don't think I could have done the same as easily with Luden's.
@@EddyConejo Force of nature makes liandry do next to nothing, pair that with something like spirit (which Nasus buys almost by default) and it does nothing to him. Sure in an ARAM game it can work but on SR? Yea, no.
Lifesteal is one of my favorite mechanics in video games in general. That said, it's getting a little ridiculous in League. It's become much more tolerable recently since literally every source of lifesteal in the game has been nerfed to the ground, but remember when Samira could get 60% lifesteal in 2 items, and it was 100% effective in her ult? Nightmare fuel.
Something worth bringing up is the difference between Sustain that requires interaction with opponents and Sustain that doesn't. One of my biggest problems with Lifesteal is that it's MORE effective against Minions because they have less armor, meaning you do more post-mitigation damage against them. I'd love if Lifesteal, Spellvamp, Omnivamp etc. was all wrapped up into a single Vamp stat that was just 33% effective against Minions so you can still shove people around in the early- and mid-game.
Idk how to tell you but the majority of champs usually buy just 1 healing item, viego needs just botrk, viego shieldbow, irelia buys 2 with botrk and shieldbow, yasuo shieldbow and adc s either get shieldbow or rely on their runes and go full damage, and toplaners usually go just for 1, rither sunderer or botrk, except jax who can goes both. So , congrats on the slight irelia nerf?
@@akatosh5792 ANTIheal, not healing itens, i say this bcs adc antiheals sucks i will never biy unless my team mates are dumb enough to not buy it, but if stacked i would ocasionaly buy against situational comps, like mundo and aatrox
I feel like there's such an increase in healing because everyone wants to be the anime protagonist and rely on themselves and themselves only. Now, if only that stopped them from running it down all the same...
One fix to healing could be to set cooldown ceilings to certain abilities and items. Say: “for each 10% healed gain 1 stack. At 5 stacks lifesteal is no longer available.” Would let fighters keep their fight to live mechanics but creates a meta so that they don’t run out of lifesteal during an engage.
I'm so sad that healers are so useless in this game, not to mention how boring and dumb their playstyle is. I hope they can fix this shit on their mmo.
@OMP - I think that Soraka and Janna are very fun because of the way they can kite around the enemies while using their abilities on allies. It´s like an adc except you can actually move and not blow up instantly.
Healing ability = press a button and it heals. That's it, that's all. Every champion can self sustain himself, dragon gives you sustain, honey fruit heals you, every item gives you self heal and also many runes. More boring and useless than that?
@@Mimelune Lifesteal from runes or items is definetly more op than the healers, but they are still useful. If you can't reach the enemy team, or they burst you down before you can react, you need someone who can heal you unconditionally. Peel is very important, and you sacrifice a lot from choosing a engage support. And I also find that playstyle fun. Not necesarily all healers but Soraka, Janna and sort of Sona are champions I really like.
I think the Baron Argument is a really strong one. Baron used to be this big boss that was risky to try but it would give you a huge advantage. There was just a small number of junglers that could solo it. But today its so easy to do with 1 or 2 people even when you are behind. When your team is ahead its even easier. You can just start it without any risk. When the enemy team wants to stop you, you can just kill them because you didnt lose any health doing Baron. The Baron Buff is still insane but it kinda feels to strong for how easy it is to get nowadays
I remember a streamer (I think it was Hashinshin hahahaha) complaining about how ranged champions can get healing from taste of blood (specifically Kennen). To be honest, as a Mage player we learned how to play without any dependency on forms of spell vamp (or now, omnivam). However, with the reworked tunes in Season 8, most mages just take taste of blood and omnivamp. It’s kind of boring that Morellonomicon is basically a need most games and this got so much worse with the reworked items. Crit and lifesteal? Why is that a thing? As many people have said, I think Camille’s W is fine, she’s a melee poke-ish champion right? That’s why she takes grasp instead of conqueror (that’s what my friend told me, I’m not too sure myself)z
Lifesteal and how quickly it applies definitely is the actual problem, because even if you remove 98% of Irelia's max health, she'll regen full-life in about a second while murdering you, meaning you have to play absolutely perfectly, hard cc her before she can cast any spell and instantly burst her for at least 100% of her max health + the health regenerated by shieldbow or other items like that. If you don't have that hard cc or enough range to cast the whole combo before the enemy can do anything, there is absolutely nothing you can do because those hyper-mobile bruisers will regenerate 50% max health between each of your spells that do 40% of their max health. As long as they can get on anyone, they'll never die unless they can be bursted for 150% of their max hp in less than a second.
I quite enjoy and agree with the points brought up except for the abilities all having to make sense lore wise. Like I agree it would be extra cool if it did, but gameplay before lore flavoring always as league is a game first and foremost. I would also actually really like a video dedicated to following up on how effective the healing power creep reduction was as you were kinda mentioning parts of it but mostly ignored it in the video and I feel like that's a very important matter to discuss
Not seen the video yet but I think the problem is that too much characters build items that heal them when this should be something only a small champion pool could do, so that we get back more healing supports to the meta A Yuumi player
You can reduce annoying downtime that hurts your map pressure without injecting too much healing in the game by doing what DotA 2 does; make it so items can be delivered to you.
I think Riot needs to stop implementing more healing options. For example, if I am facing a Rhaast who has Conqueror, Ravenous Hunter, Taste of Blood, Smite, his items, his passive, his ult, a Yuumi with Moonstone, I won't be able to take him down as an adc. I need the whole team to go on him and burn everything to kill him. Grievous wounds does not really affect him because of 9 healing sources.
Short answer: yes. No healing should be acessible outside potions before legendary itens unless its a champion which healing is part of the theme. Taste of Blood, Ravenous Hunter, Bloodline, Fleet Footwork, Biscuit Delivery and especially Second Wind should all be removed, Doran's Shield reworked and Vampiric Scepter removed.
I will say (and I haven't peeked through all the comments so maybe someone else has mentioned it as well) that the Ekko healing thing both does and doesn't make sense, from a character perspective; it's a case of (thank you TVTropes) Gameplay and Story Separation. He rewinds and heals in-game, but both his 'flavor stories' and his intro cinematic showed that when he uses his Z-Drive to go back in time, he keeps whatever injuries he'd sustained beforehand. My main gripe with Ekko was always that for an assassin, he feels very safe compared to most of his colleagues in the class. He's still not as bad as some nowadays (Read: Yone for example), but still.
My biggest problem is the Shieldbow/Bloodthirster combo particularly on Yasuo/Yone and Viego going untargetable taking a body and healing for almost all his hp...whilst effected by GW. Also, i find it funny the Riot talks about Healing creep and Mobility creep being a problem yet every new champion has either massive healing in their kit or some mobility gimmick or both. And again there's Viego who gets all three of the cancer mechanics, invis, untargetability, and massive healing.
As a past vel koz main during season 9 to 10 I can say I hate all this healing. Season 11's new items has made plain poke champion extremely frustrating. when I land combo on the backline only for them to completely heal up 30 seconds later, it's too much!!!!
The 3 key lifesteal items for ADC's (Shieldbow/Btork/Bloodthurster) overcomes the 60% reduction from GW when you have an IE as well. Healing can and does outstrip GW's heal cut, and its even worse if the ADC also decides to buy a Spirit Visige just for the extra healing effect. Also the sub-sub class word you are looking for is Regenerator. Yone, Yasuo, or anyone else who builds Shieldbow are Regenerators (classed by the build) they live by hurting you. The only way to take out a Regenerator is to nuke them from orbit...I mean nuke them. So high burst/nuke champs will still kill them because they are still squishy as long as they aren't hitting you. So a Veigar, Lux, Syndra, Diana or a Blue Kayne with Dark Harvest can still 100-0 them. Regenerators are good vs DPS champions, who are the current Flavor of the Month (slayers) but are weak to nuke champs.
I am still baffled they did not include healing reduction to baron in form of an aura or an AoE hit. This would immediately give a bit more threat to baron, which it kinda should have as "the big boss" on the rift.
I feel like the issue is less that there is to much healing, I feel more, like there are not enough counters to self heals. I think Grievious wounds should affect self heal and healing champs differently, and maybe in someway stack, so if you have 5 players applying them on one Yone, he has like 90% reduced regen instead of the normal 40/60 % becouse I don´t feel like it´s working right now.
My personal opinion on healing is that it's fine to put on champions as long as it makes sense, or is done in an interesting way. Sett's passive regeneration is honestly a bit dumb to have in the first place, but with Aatrox it's the whole point, Mordekaiser has to pick between a heal OR a shield, and Garen's ONLY passive is dedicated to out of combat healing
Also, as long as I know, sylas W was previously design to steal enemy mana, not heal him but I was a very broken mechanic so they removed to just give him health
You also forgot to mention that as a result of damage increasing and damage reduction not, damage mitigation becomes both more appealing AND stronger, since it heals you off how much you hurt other people rather than off your base stats
I think the idea that poke champions are played less because they are countered by healing is a good thing, since poke champions are often very frustrating to deal with due to their low-interaction nature; a poke ability just hits you from range without having much you can do about it.
I see a tristana and a yuumi, alls I'm saying, is I played a game the other day with a tristana and a yuumi, and despite everyone having Anti-Heal, Tristana still effortlessly healed to full off of every fucking auto with just a Blood thirster. Healing without a shadow of a doubt is hyper op in league
@@FreedomIII 2 Thornmails, A Morellonomicon, And two Mortal reminders, wasnt enough to stop the healing. The jumping wasnt the problem, the bitch being unable to die was
I believe it would be interesting to give more development in the shield department rather than healing. Why not having that extra durability (tankiness of defenses, hp and healing) as a single factor that has to be built by the players rather than the system and can be used once? Shields can also be implemented in various ways in the kits of many champions, both older and newer, and it would make more sense than a random healing; for example: Camille is an hextech cyborg, so it's within sense that she could use that energy and technology to mimic a defensive measure with her leg swipe, imagine an artificial riposte of a master duelist like Fiora, but instead of randomly healing her by using it correctly, it makes a shield.
Lifesteals are the issue. Back when I started in S1, healing wasn't a major issue unless particular champs got overtuned. The reason greivous wound items weren't strong back then was cause they didn't need to be. There were only a small number of what you could call "drain tanks". So the only time you had to buy them, if at all, was if a single drain tank on the enemy team got ahead or they stacked multiple healing champs. Today? It's a mandatory buy. There is not a single game where some form of healing debuff isn't bought. Everyone heals a ton even if their kit doesn't have it built in. There is so much excess of lifesteals that even with items like thorn mail, champs can still easily continue to have massive healing. That coupled with the absurd amount of overloaded kit riot keeps putting out? Healing is horridly overtuned. Any champ today can become a better drain tank than s1 Warwick, Mundo, and even Vlad. Remember, vlads healing with will of the ancients was so strong that riot outright removed the item. Today? Riot gives healing items and runes out like it doesn't matter.
Thank you, I'm a person who played right when S2 started and I agree. There were maybe only a couple of champs that could heal for a lot like swain, sion (who was mostly played as AP anyway lol) and adcs who just stacked a ton of life steal which was irrelevant anyway because they would be CCed then nuked. Today? I only play ARAM but even then, I can EASILY tell my first item must be GW on SR because of the insane amount of healing there is. It's not even remotely fun to play this game anymore because I'm not being outplayed, I'm being outhealed.
Nothing better than taking an even, or even a good trade in lane and watch the Irelia / Yone / Yasuo etc and see them heal to full health. Or die to them leaving them with 10 hp and by the time your jungler arrives, they are full health again.
I've been saying this for some time, but I believe there's a pretty simple and interesting solution to the healing problem: make grievous wounds stack. I don't care if you nerf them in the process. Sustain should give an advantage in the 1v1, but it's pretty frustrating not being able to kill a mundo yuumi with five members with grievous wounds. It sucks. Numbers advantage should beat healing, so that's the solution I put forth.
Can you post a video or make a community post about your mains and your most played champs since I wanna see what perspective these videos are made from
Argument 5 in favor of healing : Clutching a fight with lifesteal while on the edge of dying is the most intense and satisfying thing you can do in League
@@lemonpay7747 Well that's what Goredrinker Death's Dance and Conqueror do in a way but it's true that there could be a dedicated item. I'd love that on Fiora since she can't recreate her pre item rework builds
@@Abyzdecannes it's not the same, that items doesn't scale around the champs sustain, they scale with their tankiness so they are not broken like doing a ton/healing a ton champs. Conqueror works better if you have high damage and attack speed, so it's part of the problem. Spirit visage is the only item in the game that directly sinergises with self healing champs, but it can't be op because it will be abused by Samira, not Warwick.
I always saw the increase in sustain/healing the same as the over abundance of champs with dashes for no reason; it's a design crutch. Why find a new and dynamic way of changing the game when you can just slap some sustain on a champ and call it a day, same thing applies for dashes. Same mindset applies for making items and runes, you can be fun and creative and come up with new dynamic abilities or you can just slap some free sustain and call it a day. With so much sustain it feels like players often get punished for actually getting good pokes and good trades. It also makes or such a boring meta when everyone has sustain and you're always forced to build anti heal.
biggest problem is that ap healers(gwenn , vlad ...) have no item counter in the early game since as a tank building bramble is trolling against them thats why i think they should separate bramble vest dmg (still kept on the item but increased) and the healing reduction should be moved to health item(same item for morello) + we should have different effectiveness of healing reduction on the 3 types of healing you mentioned at the beggining or make lifesteal less effective from multiple items - like tenacity doesnt stack linearily
![ARGENTINA vs. PERÚ [1-0] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 12](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xtI25ENDDSY/mqdefault.jpg)
Pov:You're playing aatrox and enemy buys 800 gold
Last time that happened, we all got grievous wounds and it didn't help
*Cries*
It barely even helps vs aatrox. He just goes back to full HP no problem
@@ΔημήτρηςΛάππας-θ7η executioner or bramble,bcs aatrox can just not auto
Until you get thornmail,then cc applies heavy grievous
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Soraka heals less than a Yasuo’s self heal but gets affected by GW more. I guess it’s time to nerf ASol!
XD you made my day.
That's actually how Riot thinks lmao
@@Queen_inthe_Gulag I can't believe they said ASol is toeing the line in pro-play when I've seen no indication that pro teams remember he exists.
👑👑
At least Soraka can heal everybody else on her team, Yasuo only heals himself.
Enchanters' heals are mostly fine, or underwhleming even. Lifesteals, however.
Yeah healing is fine but shielding isn't
@@zeflin2110 A lot of Enchanters completely rely on their shields
@@thelastsepheramain6867 that is right, and when the enemy team has to much shielding, there is always the anti-shield item.
@@Yukkutastic Ah yes, the item in which only AD assassins can build. You might be can squeeze it onto some other champions here and there, but they usually need other items first.
Yeah and because of lifesteal we need grievous wounds to prevent it but grievous wounds also stops the enchanters whose kit is based around healing like soraka nami or yuumi from being able to do they're job because they cant heal. So then they have to buff how much they heal for so they can do their job while grievous wounds is on someone. But that also means that when someone isn't affected by grievous wounds they heal for a ridiculous amount.
I will never understand why champions like Aatrox and Fiddlesticks get their healing cut or removed but the new assassins with 4 dashes and a blink can also heal and go untargetable.
Because the assassins are flashy and make riot more money from skins
@@bingdiggus8579 because the skirmishers get their healing from items and runes.
@@skillorb more like they do enough damage for the lifesteal to actually do something for them
I said this before in another comment, but yesterday I had a game of azir against Yasuo, got a really good trade off him and bursted him for most of his health, and then he just dashed through one minion wave, healed all his health, burst me for most of my health and ending up healthier than he was before the initial trade. Kinda bs
i hated this favouritism for new champions, there heal is so broken and it makes champions like aatrox and vlad useless, there kits has built in healing and yone can match or heal more then them and vlad takes damage to do damage so he's is healing is necessary.
Enchanter heals are fine. Its item and bruiser/skirmishers lifesteal whats annoying
ah yes the cat pressed e twice and allowed the 3/6/2 yone to 1v4
@@captainkizer yuumi isn’t an enchanter, it’s a demon.
@@Izigurand Or more fittingly a parasitic abomination.
@@captainkizer The Yone probably did more healing than the yuumi
@@NodokenStar-k917 Parasite implies that she negatively impacts her host. Yuumi would be classified as a symbiote instead.
Yone with just shieldbow healing more than aatrox with goredrinker is just sad
Yone is the worst
@@Orange_pie Can't 1v1 him with anything but a bruiser late game, kinda busted for a champ that can legit 1v5 with a good ult even if behind
Shieldbow might just be the most horrible and unfun to play against item I've seen since I started playing in season 4. You need the anti-shield item and a grievious wounds item to counter it and, by then, the usual Shieldbow champions have already scaled to the point it's useless to itimize against it anyway.
@@ip5676 maybe shieldbow would be okay if it was purchased only by champions with a bow (ranged). melee champions already have tons of sustain and durability
@@samuelselos1932 it would be better if they pulled a goredrinker on it. Don't give the item lifesteal unless it activates
Yea my least favorite thing is when you ‘win’ a trade and say they come out w 1/2 their hp and you come out with 3/4 but then they heal all their health back and it’s like you just took 1/4 damage for nothing.
Aka yone with vampiric scepter
@@hashteraksgage3281 yone with doran blade at level 1
@@alessandrocoatti5186 Dont forget AS boots powerspike
@@alessandrocoatti5186 holy shit dude u have just remembered my nighmare
There´s too much healing in the game. But the enchanters abilities are the least of the problem imo
ah yes you completely demolished a fight but they happen to have the cat so they win
she pressed e twice at the cost of essentially nothing. gg. fair and balanced.
@@captainkizer bro you're in everyone's replies please get a life
@@captainkizer yuumi has a below average winrate
@@Mario-mk3ic guy got stomped by a yuumi today and wants to make it everyone else’s problem
Healing no, but lifesteal and healing from damaging abilities absolutely
I made a zed montage if you could possibly give some feedback on it
This exactly
So much this, and not just cause dealing with healing is annoying, but it cheapens enchanters kits, look at soraka, she has to HURT HERSELF to heal a small amount, and her ult heals everyone, for a similarly small amount, yasuo can literally heal himself faster then soraka can....while dealing high amounts of damage with insane mobility and cc
Idk how this got almost 100 likes
@@fucuh Dont advertise here. Use google ads or somethin' smh 🙄
Long story short - before Thornmail was a pref pick, nowadays core for every tank and bruiser
Aand rito nerfed it, same as seeker's armguard because of that. Imagine armour being good in ad meta, lol
@@MrLuzakman you high or smth? The meta is meta so that it couldn't be countered x3
@@sahelanthropus4991 and here i thought we play lol for diverse and engaging gameplay with multitude of different champions and archetypes. How wrong i was...
@@MrLuzakman we do that but only as riot dictates it to. The game have never been as balanced as it is today champions-wise, however the gap between roles are drastic
For real, you can’t even play a tank *support* without picking up at least thornmail early on. Maybe even first if your up against a samira or aphelios.
Is healing too much?
Depends on the context
Aatrox? No
Others? Yes
Sona?
As an aatrox player i agree
so ur saying it’s completely fair for mans to press r+q+prolly gdrinker and receive his entire health bar back
@@captainkizer It's ok because his entire kit revolves around healing. Meanwhile Yone accomplishes the same amount of healing but could also do something else.
@@captainkizer he has no other survivability, it's like why some champs take bone plating over second wind, Irelia's W blocks way more damage than aatrox heals, and irelia ALSO HAS HEALING, aatrox has nothing other than healing. Same with Mundo, Renekton, Mordekaiser, etc.
Something else to mention is that healing is one of the few stats with accelerating returns. The more healing you have, the longer you live, and the longer you live the more often you can trigger your heal before dying.
It's just....the champs that DEPEND on the healing in their kit/who have healing as a part of their identity (warwick, aatrox etc.) are getting fucked big time because they usually dont buy lifesteal items and therefore don't increase the amount they heal (they do scale on level but not insanely high). Meanwhile we have 4 healing runes in precision and domination, a common rune set for adc and champs like irelia and yasuo. Those runes combined with builds including immortal shieldbow, bloodthirster, ravenous hydra, BOTRK and/or more makes lifesteal too strong because you can only buy 1 antiheal per champ. While the champs NOT building lifesteal barely increase their lifesteal or sacrifice an itemslot for an off-build lifesteal item suffer immensely from the 70% less healing. Champs like Yasuo that build immortal shieldbow and bloodthirster for both the crit AND the lifesteal get so much value out of both items that they can easily stack it, making the grievous wounds irrelevant. Yeah you are still cutting 70% of the healing, but a yasuo will still heal 150 hp per auto (which is a lot). Remove some of the lifesteal runes so that not every champ can have 10+% lifesteal (excluding kit lifesteal) without building any lifesteal items and it will be WAY better.
I mean,life steal and omnivamp shouldn't exist as items other than for adcs to buy vamp scepter and that's it
But aatrox,kayn and those who are supposed to heal should reallllly get a buff this meta
And if they do remove lifesteal and omnivamp items they should finally nerf grievous so actual champs who are supposed to heal up actually heal
Godzilla had a stroke reading this and died
@@fitmotheyap Tyler1 said jungle in season 11 was overpowered because of emberknife and hailblade giving to much healing and mana do u think jungle vamp should be nerfed?
@@williamsmith6364 the healing part should be hella reduced,mana can be kept otherwise champs such as kayn,amumu and others won't even work and rengar,lee and others would dominate
@@fitmotheyap I think is a problem leashing both gromp and blue or raptors and red togethet because of the immense healing too such as fiddle hecarim kayn or poppy to contest scuttle at a lvl 4 advantage.
Enchanters should do a ton of healing,that's what they are good at. And the problem isnt enchanters' heals. The problem is lifesteal and omnivamp. Even enchanters like Sona,Yuumi can't do as much healing as skirmisher/bruiser items.
oh and yone,viego
thats why the new grievous wounds are terrible for enchanters! self heal and ally heal should be categorized
Ya i wanted to play a healer class, until I realized warwick makes soraka healing look like garbage.
Healing focused enchanters honestly suck... unless you build them full ap.
i was gona be like just play janna and then i remembered serpents fang is in the game so just use hard cc i guess. just have half your kit countered and live with it :D
@@noellenyx Only viable supports must have a kit full of cc, tank, or just be a dps themselves.
True support is not viable anymore, prove me wrong that a healer soraka is not objectively worse than a Nautilus, Leona, or Senna (that heals better than soraka and often out damages her adc, or is the adc)
@@davidevans7477 I agree so much to this.
I don’t think that healing itself is broken. but lifesteal… bruhhh, it’s completely broken. for example, samira can be a fcking bruiser with Immortal Shieldbow
I wouldn't say that Samira resembling a bruiser is the problem... Rather bruisers being bruisers is
well her kit is about going in and getting into the thick of it so for her it makes sense
Say hi to sylas
@@bakamitai3462 unless ya know, you are ap and if you ever tried to play an artilery mage vs a minimum brain [anything that can go life steal] you know its shit
also dont forget yone and yas and irelia all can get to you very easily even when you are positioned well gl playing that entire small but still class
@@bakamitai3462 imagine that there are champions that don’t build lethality and serpent’s fang is THE ONLY item in the game, which denies shields. And also imagine I was talking only about samira+shieldbow combo, not them separately
It says a lot when sylas who builds almost only damage can go into 5 people and survive longer than a tank who builds only health and resistances.
Well, just buy grievous, and even then nothing's stopping you from just ccing him and attacking him out of his kingslayer range.
@@NoOne-qi4tb Not every champ can attack out of his range, an unlike him, not every champ have a dash. The point is that he shouldn't be healing that much at the point at forcing you to buy GW or gg
@@cesar6447 he isn't forcing you, you can easily kill him, but if you don't know how to kite then you will just die
@@cesar6447 also, if a sylas is building full dmg you should be damn sure he won't survive more than 4 seconds 1v5
I'd also like to add, with too much sustain "outplaying" is becoming more of who heals the most as to who played the best. Just look at any Sylas "outplay" when he was released, 99% of the outplay was outshielding and healing them.
That's still the case - only about 5% of Sylas players actually earn their outplays.
when fighter are harder to kill than tanks... i think we got a problem
champions with sustain arent even special anymore since anyone can get it with runes and items
Yes. I hate when they 5 v 1 and won't die even tho literally everyone has anti-heal and a fed ad carry.
A long time ago an R from my soraka would turn a 0/6 yasuo into a montage machine. Now the healing is like if someone got drunk on health pots and farted into my team's faces.
They introduced more healing over all as a solution to the high damage champions were dealing, and as a consequence, sustained damage was no longer viable, making eveyone opt for even more damage, enough for one shotting the enemy instead.
I always enjoy a textbook example of irony.
Lifesteal in the game rn is here for the same reason the last 20 champs have been the way they are: they make for flashy outplays.
Riot balances for proplay, but they dont want balance per se, they want to get good clips and they love when some proplayer gets a penta with buffed irelia with conqueror, lifesteal runes, triumph and a few items
Yone with shieldbow and bloodthirster can 1V5 games that is a problem a HUGE ONE
Nah Asol was way more problematic - Rito videogames.
@@peturch.2656 truth
@@peturch.2656 Well riot employees aren't humans they are chimpanzee s
@@jadoniccryon5898 woah, no need to use that language, it's very offensive to chimpanzees
@@acekotana4425 ; )
self-healing vs third party - heaing is what I believe should be discussed and focused down by community and riot, I'm not agains't self-healing (me being a samira main) but sometimes it is not rational that you are able to heal yourself 10,000 health by yourself when there is a dedicated groupof champions destined for this (this being the enchanters), I believe something to take in consideration is self-healinf should be considered as soft-healing (like this ones should be way lower than it is or should be affected way more by griwvous wounds) and a thidr party - healing should be considering hard-healing (being less affected by grievoud since it is not you who has control over it but a teammate), I belive this could be a very good point for discussion as I said, not just for Riot but for the community to really know what is the core problem with this everlasting fight of not who can outplay the other onw but who can outheal it's opponent
that wouldn't work because multiple champions like Dr. Mundo, Aatrox and Renekton NEED that healing to even be playable, Nami would become overpowered and so would yuumi. You'd have to tweak so many champions in order for a system like this to work and it's not really worth it IMO because the balancing would be way harder than it is now.
@@liandrysanguishinshin7955 I don't agree, It would be the same level of difficulty at the start (which would reduce during the long term), but at least there will be more clarity with Self-heal vs. 3rd party heal power. if I'm playing soraka and im being out healed by my or the enemy team's top laner or adc, that doesn't feel fair. reconstructing the healing system (like they did for the movement speed) isn't impossible nor unreasonable it's very much doable, the main argument against it is, it's not as fun. also, you wouldn't have to increase the healing for yuumi nor nami, you'll only be reducing the healing for other characters, and after they are in a good spot you balance the enchanters so their heals can be strong but not overpowering.
@@pietoeat9750 so how would you counter a soraka that's ahead? Top soraka would become a thing again too, + champions arent really overpowered because of healing, it's the items that are overtuned, what champions would you nerf? Other than maybe viego or irelia i don't see any.
@@liandrysanguishinshin7955 didn't you hear the second half? I clearly said to balance them out so enchantress can be strong but not over powered, and that's an easy fix, reduce the self heal soraka recieves or up the q's cooldown by a second or 2 or reduces the regeneration or reduce the ap scaling, to answer your easy question. There are options and there are solutions to alot of problems if you think about it, but to close off the possibility because you refuse to think of the solutions and are content with the issues, is something I don't agree with.
The self heal gives characters and classes a way to overcome their designed weaknesses, and an unfair advantage in a fight. If a character can heal half their heal off of a few minions (gwen, kayle, yi, yas, yone, samira, vlad, fiddle, Darius, etc) that's an unfair advantage.
And yes the items and the characters just like the movement speed overhaul.
@@pietoeat9750 The problem isn't self healing vs 3rd party healing. It's built in healing(abilities and passives) vs added healing(items and runes). All the champs that have built in healing in their kits are fine. You could make the argument that vlads healing is over the top, but thats literally the purpose of playing him, that's what makes him unique. The champs that are healing 0-100 are champs that gain healing from items and runes, because their damage is so absurdly high that any healing percentage added makes their healing ridiculous. Personally I think healing from items and runes should be drastically nerfed. Someone without healing in their kit really shouldn't be able to have more than 10% lifesteal of any kind.
Personally I don’t think there’s too much healing in itself, but lifesteal from kits, items and runes honestly shouldn’t exist because it makes the game and champions 10x harder to balance.
Except for aatrox cause that's like his gimmick.
I would say season 10 item healing was okay... minus death dance.
Runes are there to define a playstyle of a champion, if they were removed, the game would be boring
@@jei3419 not like anyone actually plays around with the runes in ranked play, everyone just picks whatever runes are meta on the champion and call it a day. Like why would I ever take any other rune without omnivamp on yasuo yone or irelia
@@sunburn8273 so you want a a melee champions like garen to be bullied by Quinn/Vayne? without second wind, Fleet Footwork, you think you would survive the laning phase as a garen ?
Someone needs to talk about how tanks need a MR anti-heal item. Building Thornmail against Sylas and Gwen is the worst.
True, tbh I think it should just be a health item rather than a specific resist, that way it doesn't completely screw over AD champs in lane while feeling worthless against AP
AD champs get two, AP and tank champs only get one item. (enchanter) supports also only get one, but that is mostly made up for the fact that it can apply the grievous from multiple people's attacks
@@N12015 I mean Sylas still autos a lot because of his passive but I think the main point is that armor is basically worthless against both of them since the bulk of their damage is magic, and as a rush in lane it can feel really really bad to drop 800g on stats that are more or less worthless.
@@acekotana4425 AP's and enchanters' Grievous Wounds items don't have further situational limitations. Mages and enchanters always want AP. Tanks don't always want armor and on-hit protection.
Riot removes abyssal mask when liandries gets giga buffed and demonic embrace gets added, you think they care about tanks being able to itemize against AP?
Will you make a series called "How to play against" where you can tell us what we could do against those more annoyingly strong/ or just plain annoying champs?
Donghua already has a series
No, vars is only good at whining
@@bruh3457 lul, met the first vars hater ever and honestly, just as I expected.
@@elysiaherscherrofhuman2508 ay man, point me to one vars video about league where he doesnt complain
@@bruh3457 the class videos? Why noone plays? Why everyone plays? I think you have a very loose understanding of what complaining is.
"Remember when you needed to 5-man Baron and have a dedicated tank to draw aggro?"
I play since 2015 (more or less), but I haven't witnessed those times.
What he said was an exaggeration but it still applies. You'd actually need teammates before even if you were pretty fed. Now you can do any objective with a lot of ease.
@@bevvvy1374 Season 10 healing was *FAR* more overwhelming than season 11 healing IMO, so I'm not even sure why we're talking about this "issue"
@@Onaterdem The problem being worse before doesn't mean it isn't a problem now. And you just said in your opinion so yeah no shit we're gonna talk about it if what you say has no factual basis
@@bevvvy1374 It does, actually, but for some champions, not all. And I specifically meant lifesteal, not healing in general, sorry about that. Do you remember season 10 Master Yi with Conqueror and Guinsoo's and BOTRK and Wit's End and Death's Dance healing from 0 to 100 in a matter of, like, milliseconds? They completely gutted item sustain for the duellist class that built those items and instead buffed ADC lifesteal. Since "solo-Baron"ers are most usually duellists, as a jungle main, I do think that soloing Baron is less of a problem than it has been in season 10, or 9, or 8, 7, 6, and 5 as well.
@@Onaterdem ahh yes the 15 percent omnivamp dd with also 30 armor and magic resist and 30 percent dmg bleed
Tottally balanced item yes yes
And the rb with 15 armor and magic pen
The new items atleast make somewhat more sense
But not rly
As I Jinx main who almost always builds Lifesteal, I hate to acknowledge that I abuse this but I do.
It's weird Vars, you're using the most balanced things in your thumbnail
I agree 100%
You know what's stupid? If you're a tank and you're against an aatrox or a fiora you buy bramble vest, armor and healing reduction are a perfect counter
But if you're against a sylas or an Akali... You still buy a bramble vest, but you run the risk of getting one shot because armor is useless
And Riot are making more ap healing champs like Gwen.
There is no mr version of bramble and that is a big advantage for the mage. Mr itemization sucks ass in general.
@@peturch.2656 Gwen is the worst of them all, just look at her playrate in pro and youll see, super safe(untargetability), high mobility, high damage, a w that is strong as an ultimate, can melt tanks or entire teams, while outsustaining champions like Aatrox who made around healing
@@peanutbutter9345 Her 3rd R heals for 500 hp all the time.
IMO even with grievous wounds items it doesn’t counter champs that heal with damage
Shout out to the Sylas and his Flash+R at 12:46
Challenger play
I just want them to remove healing
Only actual healers are supposes to heal like sylas,mundo,aatrox,kayn etc
Or just remove immortal,that item is to blame the most
@@lombas3185 so like old maw?
It used to start healing only after below a certain amount of hp and gave a magic shield(with cooldown)
Funny that enchanter's healing is underwhelming but lifesteal is absolutely insane
Vars, can you do a video talking about leages bosses (baron, dragon, etc), y personally think they are not bosses anymore because you can do them so quickly and sometimes even solo. It doesn't require much setup to pull of for the buffs they grant
Baron should flat out nullify lifesteal/omnivamp from all damage people do to him at the very least.
The bigest challenge about doing "bosses" is enemy team. However, you're sort of right because nowadays all you need is to kill one enemy so it's 5v4 and you have a free objective.
@@gabrieldoyen692 giving him lifesteal i think would be very good as it would make it take more time, thus making it that you have to be more prepared as a team so that even games would take longer to finish and wouldn't be so 1 team fight coinflip
Making bosses more harder and giving them more mr would make it so having an adc in your team would be essential to take out obj and a tank to tank it, maybe buffing obj is all it takes to make classes be needed again
I'd like to see the bosses as being things you actually have to pay attention to and outplay, rather than just being stat sticks. It would be neat if one skilled player could solo Baron at a low level, even if it took them 2 uninterrupted minutes to do so, and it would make it harder to both keep an eye on the map for the enemy team and fight at the same time. Baron has a few dodgeable attacks but that hardly counts.
Lifesteal is wayyyyyyyy too op, also it just invalidates poke mages idk why it’s even in the game tbh
Because if it wast any poke mage would completely invalidate every singl adc in the game. Lifesteal has been in the game sinse the beginning and it wasn’t nearly as problematic i would say like 4 years ago. The problem is the sheer amount off healing and lifesteal options that exist now.
If an adc heals 30hp for every minion hit then it would be ok, but they heal 200hp from every minion hit. That is the problem
@@NeuviletteBR ADCs aren't the issue, it's just skirmishers like Yasuo, yone, Irelia, etc. that ruin life steal. I don't care about ADCS healing a lot because you can just one shot them in the current meta anyway
poke mages invalidate adcs without lifesteal lol
@@carnifex423 but adcs will win in teamfights or at least they should(as a velkoz player I know that’s not true lol), that’s the idea poke forces an enemy to team fight or slowly dying. it’s swapping team fighting for poke
I like how you're using Enchanter heals in the thumbnail when Self Healing in the main issue.
Sona has trash heals, Soraka gets murdered by GW and Yuumi doesnt rly care(because she has other utility)
I haven't watched this yet, but I imagine you're going to talk about how Grievous affects those that don't obnoxiously heal a lot, and those that heal the damage they will be taking two months from now don't get affected by Grievous nearly at all.
6:47 that blue buff not dying makes me sad
So what I’m hearing is nerf grievous wounds, but buff it against self-healing?
They should just nerf grievous and start nerfing healing until it is balanced
85% against self sustain/25 from incoming heal but even that might be generous still
I would nerf gw but buffvit against healing from items. See yone and moonstaff. Because buffing it against self heals would really hurt all champs with self heal in their kit since they were initially balanced around it.
@@nicojokelin5547 yea basically thats the strat, because this meta hurts naturally healing champs by design like soraka, zac, aatrox, mundo and vlad. of course, vlad is dumb right now, but you get my point
@@CorruptionAura congrats, you just made a new 20% winrate champion, mundo!
Champs heal for 200% these days instead of 100% so buying anti heal doesn’t do shit these days. Too much healing in items and in champions their kit. Gives to much sustain in lane.
Healing reduction will kill juggernauts, but not skirmishers.
@@liandrysanguishinshin7955 maybe increasing built-in healing and reducing item and rune heal could work
@@hashteraksgage3281 they did that
I feel like healing reduction items aka GW, should focus more on reducing self healing from champions, either reducing their offense stats, reducing their damage overall or even reducing the amount of vamp they have. Mathematically would maintain the purpose of the items while also allowing enchanters (who are actually suppose to be healing) to be able to do something in the current meta.
PoV: Irelia walks back into lane with Vamp Scepter after barely managing to solo kill you. I guess this game is over now.
It's fun when someone spends 900 gold but you're a non ad character so you have to deal with a laner immune to trades and poke
Morello left and Riot memorized him with Morellonamicon, the mage heal cut.
according to what i heard he was the one Rioter opposed to healing and when he finally left healing grew everywhere.
I personally feel like grevious wounds does absolutely nothing
Healers are fine because every competitive game with different hero archetypes has some sort of healing character (medic from TF2, Mercy from Overwatch) but the problem comes in when champions have healing built into them automatically.
I’m not against lifesteal but the problem is that there’s too much of it and it forces you to get grievous wounds, and for some champions like Aatrox or Yasuo, even if your team has full grievous wounds it’s not enough to take them out.
yea but those characters are always too simple/boring/easy and they are impossible to balance because of how simple they are. just like how a pocket mercy can turn any hero into a god all it takes is a funny looking cat to turn 2/5/3 yone into a god as well. he’ll even if you get grevious it won’t work because a lot of champs get way over 100%(sometimes even getting up to 190%) and a 40-60% redux simply won’t work
Yeah remove sylas's healing or tone down his dmg early on.....there NO TRADING with him as a mage and he does almost if not more dmg than an assassin
I'm an Ekko one-trick and I absolutely despise Sylas. Past level 6, Sylas just becomes an Ekko that skirmishes better, sustains more, does more damage, heals more and has Ekko ult. If I can't shut him down pre-6 then we might as well FF.
sylas just needs to not have damage on w but it does fucking EXECUTE damage
Finally a good, unbiased, properly analytical video.
Here's how personally I would tackle this issue:
Make GW stack, each stack reduces healing further by 10%, starting from 30% up to a maximum of 80 or 90%.
- GW components (Bramble vest, Oblivion Orb, Executioner's Calling) give 1 stack (30% reduced healing).
- GW items with their basic effects give 2 stacks (40% reduced healing).
- GW items with their special extra effects (like damaging an enemy below half health with Morello) give 3 stacks (50% reduced healing).
- Other teammates with their own GW items can apply more stacks too. So, let's say you have Mortal Reminder with its special effect (3) and your teammates have an oblivion orb (1) and a Thornmail with its basic effect (2), that's a total of 6 stacks for 80% reduced healing, which may sound like a lot, but that required 3 members of your team (including you) to have GW items and apply GW at the same time.
I think this is a fair way of rewarding teams that commit to purchasing GW and punishing players who try to drain tank multiple enemies at a time.
"Just buy Grievous wounds."
>Irelia still heals to full from 20% with two minion hops and a Q onto you because BotRK exists.
Viego's sustain is an infuriating benefit of his kit. The fact he has untargetability during the soul hop is just icing on the cake.
Is there too much healing in the game? Yes, but only on *certain* champions. Sylas heals too much for an engage/diving champion. Irelia being mentioned before, etc. Healer/Enchanter viability is kind of pushed out when allllllll these other avenues of healing are open. Why have a Soraka when you can just buy Goredrinker + BotRK? Why have a Nami when you can use Conqueror+Bloodthirster+Natural Regen (Sett).
I think the Lifesteal-Part is the biggest problem, as it makes squishy-high-damage-champs unkillable with one item (yes, shieldbow is stupid) while still dealing the most damage. That is just frustrating to play against.
Liandry's isn't an antitank item. Anyone who has used Liandries knows that the % health magic damage is mitigated easily by magic resist. It is, like magic pen, more effective on squishies.
Yes it is. I've fought a fed Nasus as Zyra without him being able to do anything because his healthbar would go down before he could reach me.
Zyra's E slow and root was a big factor though, but I don't think I could have done the same as easily with Luden's.
Dont forget there is another passive on liandrys 12% more damage against tanks
@@EddyConejo No offence but what magic resist items did he have? If he is fed he would have at least something like Spirit Visage
@@EddyConejo
Force of nature makes liandry do next to nothing, pair that with something like spirit (which Nasus buys almost by default) and it does nothing to him. Sure in an ARAM game it can work but on SR? Yea, no.
Lifesteal is one of my favorite mechanics in video games in general. That said, it's getting a little ridiculous in League. It's become much more tolerable recently since literally every source of lifesteal in the game has been nerfed to the ground, but remember when Samira could get 60% lifesteal in 2 items, and it was 100% effective in her ult? Nightmare fuel.
Before Grievous Wounds was optional, now Grievous Wounds is everywhere.
I will never understand how you manage to pump out so many videos
Please do a video on Swain. I feel like hes in a really weird spot.
agreed
Something worth bringing up is the difference between Sustain that requires interaction with opponents and Sustain that doesn't. One of my biggest problems with Lifesteal is that it's MORE effective against Minions because they have less armor, meaning you do more post-mitigation damage against them. I'd love if Lifesteal, Spellvamp, Omnivamp etc. was all wrapped up into a single Vamp stat that was just 33% effective against Minions so you can still shove people around in the early- and mid-game.
They shoul make antiheal like ability haste, so buying more makes diference even tho it should need to be tunned down
Idk how to tell you but the majority of champs usually buy just 1 healing item, viego needs just botrk, viego shieldbow, irelia buys 2 with botrk and shieldbow, yasuo shieldbow and adc s either get shieldbow or rely on their runes and go full damage, and toplaners usually go just for 1, rither sunderer or botrk, except jax who can goes both.
So , congrats on the slight irelia nerf?
@@akatosh5792 ANTIheal, not healing itens, i say this bcs adc antiheals sucks i will never biy unless my team mates are dumb enough to not buy it, but if stacked i would ocasionaly buy against situational comps, like mundo and aatrox
I feel like there's such an increase in healing because everyone wants to be the anime protagonist and rely on themselves and themselves only. Now, if only that stopped them from running it down all the same...
supports and identities for it no
Anyone buying LS YES. SAMIRA LITERALLY GOT AN ULT FOR LS AS A CHOICE
One fix to healing could be to set cooldown ceilings to certain abilities and items. Say: “for each 10% healed gain 1 stack. At 5 stacks lifesteal is no longer available.” Would let fighters keep their fight to live mechanics but creates a meta so that they don’t run out of lifesteal during an engage.
Divine sunderer heals too much
divine sunderer shouldn’t even heal tbh
12%max hp physical dmg with heal on a 1.5sec sheen passive
You can proc it 2 or 3 times in a fight on the right champ
i feel like these videos should be shown in game design school and also as part of Riot employee training / on boarding
7:35 out of those 4 champions, Yone doesn't have any kind of healing in his kit but Vars included him anyway show how much he hates Yone
I love Yone and Yasuo.
Your next video should be about DoT characters, like Cassiopeia, Teemo, Brand, Darius, Twitch and the pressure they provide early game
I'm so sad that healers are so useless in this game, not to mention how boring and dumb their playstyle is. I hope they can fix this shit on their mmo.
Their playstyle isen't boring
@OMP - I think that Soraka and Janna are very fun because of the way they can kite around the enemies while using their abilities on allies. It´s like an adc except you can actually move and not blow up instantly.
Healing ability = press a button and it heals. That's it, that's all. Every champion can self sustain himself, dragon gives you sustain, honey fruit heals you, every item gives you self heal and also many runes. More boring and useless than that?
@@Mimelune Lifesteal from runes or items is definetly more op than the healers, but they are still useful. If you can't reach the enemy team, or they burst you down before you can react, you need someone who can heal you unconditionally. Peel is very important, and you sacrifice a lot from choosing a engage support. And I also find that playstyle fun. Not necesarily all healers but Soraka, Janna and sort of Sona are champions I really like.
I think the Baron Argument is a really strong one. Baron used to be this big boss that was risky to try but it would give you a huge advantage. There was just a small number of junglers that could solo it. But today its so easy to do with 1 or 2 people even when you are behind. When your team is ahead its even easier. You can just start it without any risk. When the enemy team wants to stop you, you can just kill them because you didnt lose any health doing Baron. The Baron Buff is still insane but it kinda feels to strong for how easy it is to get nowadays
I remember a streamer (I think it was Hashinshin hahahaha) complaining about how ranged champions can get healing from taste of blood (specifically Kennen). To be honest, as a Mage player we learned how to play without any dependency on forms of spell vamp (or now, omnivam). However, with the reworked tunes in Season 8, most mages just take taste of blood and omnivamp. It’s kind of boring that Morellonomicon is basically a need most games and this got so much worse with the reworked items. Crit and lifesteal? Why is that a thing?
As many people have said, I think Camille’s W is fine, she’s a melee poke-ish champion right? That’s why she takes grasp instead of conqueror (that’s what my friend told me, I’m not too sure myself)z
Props for the use of that clip from Sky.
Lifesteal and how quickly it applies definitely is the actual problem, because even if you remove 98% of Irelia's max health, she'll regen full-life in about a second while murdering you, meaning you have to play absolutely perfectly, hard cc her before she can cast any spell and instantly burst her for at least 100% of her max health + the health regenerated by shieldbow or other items like that.
If you don't have that hard cc or enough range to cast the whole combo before the enemy can do anything, there is absolutely nothing you can do because those hyper-mobile bruisers will regenerate 50% max health between each of your spells that do 40% of their max health. As long as they can get on anyone, they'll never die unless they can be bursted for 150% of their max hp in less than a second.
I quite enjoy and agree with the points brought up except for the abilities all having to make sense lore wise. Like I agree it would be extra cool if it did, but gameplay before lore flavoring always as league is a game first and foremost. I would also actually really like a video dedicated to following up on how effective the healing power creep reduction was as you were kinda mentioning parts of it but mostly ignored it in the video and I feel like that's a very important matter to discuss
Not seen the video yet but I think the problem is that too much characters build items that heal them when this should be something only a small champion pool could do, so that we get back more healing supports to the meta
A Yuumi player
I agree
A Nami player
so you’re saying you want the cat to be stronger?
You can reduce annoying downtime that hurts your map pressure without injecting too much healing in the game by doing what DotA 2 does; make it so items can be delivered to you.
I think Riot needs to stop implementing more healing options. For example, if I am facing a Rhaast who has Conqueror, Ravenous Hunter, Taste of Blood, Smite, his items, his passive, his ult, a Yuumi with Moonstone, I won't be able to take him down as an adc. I need the whole team to go on him and burn everything to kill him. Grievous wounds does not really affect him because of 9 healing sources.
Short answer: yes.
No healing should be acessible outside potions before legendary itens unless its a champion which healing is part of the theme.
Taste of Blood, Ravenous Hunter, Bloodline, Fleet Footwork, Biscuit Delivery and especially Second Wind should all be removed, Doran's Shield reworked and Vampiric Scepter removed.
I will say (and I haven't peeked through all the comments so maybe someone else has mentioned it as well) that the Ekko healing thing both does and doesn't make sense, from a character perspective; it's a case of (thank you TVTropes) Gameplay and Story Separation. He rewinds and heals in-game, but both his 'flavor stories' and his intro cinematic showed that when he uses his Z-Drive to go back in time, he keeps whatever injuries he'd sustained beforehand.
My main gripe with Ekko was always that for an assassin, he feels very safe compared to most of his colleagues in the class. He's still not as bad as some nowadays (Read: Yone for example), but still.
My biggest problem is the Shieldbow/Bloodthirster combo particularly on Yasuo/Yone and Viego going untargetable taking a body and healing for almost all his hp...whilst effected by GW. Also, i find it funny the Riot talks about Healing creep and Mobility creep being a problem yet every new champion has either massive healing in their kit or some mobility gimmick or both. And again there's Viego who gets all three of the cancer mechanics, invis, untargetability, and massive healing.
Me, a soraka player, nervously waiting for someone to complain about her healing too much even though healing and greivous wounds are everywhere
Soraka is built around healing, characters that have lifesteal is like giving money to a rich kid, they dont need it but it helps
As a past vel koz main during season 9 to 10 I can say I hate all this healing. Season 11's new items has made plain poke champion extremely frustrating. when I land combo on the backline only for them to completely heal up 30 seconds later, it's too much!!!!
"an abundance of tank-shredding items to deal with tanks" meanwhile sunderer ezreal chunking me for 1/2 my health while having sustain and high health
The 3 key lifesteal items for ADC's (Shieldbow/Btork/Bloodthurster) overcomes the 60% reduction from GW when you have an IE as well. Healing can and does outstrip GW's heal cut, and its even worse if the ADC also decides to buy a Spirit Visige just for the extra healing effect.
Also the sub-sub class word you are looking for is Regenerator. Yone, Yasuo, or anyone else who builds Shieldbow are Regenerators (classed by the build) they live by hurting you. The only way to take out a Regenerator is to nuke them from orbit...I mean nuke them. So high burst/nuke champs will still kill them because they are still squishy as long as they aren't hitting you. So a Veigar, Lux, Syndra, Diana or a Blue Kayne with Dark Harvest can still 100-0 them. Regenerators are good vs DPS champions, who are the current Flavor of the Month (slayers) but are weak to nuke champs.
I am still baffled they did not include healing reduction to baron in form of an aura or an AoE hit. This would immediately give a bit more threat to baron, which it kinda should have as "the big boss" on the rift.
I feel like the issue is less that there is to much healing, I feel more, like there are not enough counters to self heals. I think Grievious wounds should affect self heal and healing champs differently, and maybe in someway stack, so if you have 5 players applying them on one Yone, he has like 90% reduced regen instead of the normal 40/60 % becouse I don´t feel like it´s working right now.
My personal opinion on healing is that it's fine to put on champions as long as it makes sense, or is done in an interesting way. Sett's passive regeneration is honestly a bit dumb to have in the first place, but with Aatrox it's the whole point, Mordekaiser has to pick between a heal OR a shield, and Garen's ONLY passive is dedicated to out of combat healing
Also, as long as I know, sylas W was previously design to steal enemy mana, not heal him but I was a very broken mechanic so they removed to just give him health
You also forgot to mention that as a result of damage increasing and damage reduction not, damage mitigation becomes both more appealing AND stronger, since it heals you off how much you hurt other people rather than off your base stats
I think the idea that poke champions are played less because they are countered by healing is a good thing, since poke champions are often very frustrating to deal with due to their low-interaction nature; a poke ability just hits you from range without having much you can do about it.
I see a tristana and a yuumi, alls I'm saying, is I played a game the other day with a tristana and a yuumi, and despite everyone having Anti-Heal, Tristana still effortlessly healed to full off of every fucking auto with just a Blood thirster. Healing without a shadow of a doubt is hyper op in league
A Poppy supp with bramble would be hell for that lane. Poppy W worls against both Trist jump and Yuumi jump.
@@FreedomIII 2 Thornmails, A Morellonomicon, And two Mortal reminders, wasnt enough to stop the healing. The jumping wasnt the problem, the bitch being unable to die was
I believe it would be interesting to give more development in the shield department rather than healing. Why not having that extra durability (tankiness of defenses, hp and healing) as a single factor that has to be built by the players rather than the system and can be used once? Shields can also be implemented in various ways in the kits of many champions, both older and newer, and it would make more sense than a random healing; for example: Camille is an hextech cyborg, so it's within sense that she could use that energy and technology to mimic a defensive measure with her leg swipe, imagine an artificial riposte of a master duelist like Fiora, but instead of randomly healing her by using it correctly, it makes a shield.
Lifesteals are the issue. Back when I started in S1, healing wasn't a major issue unless particular champs got overtuned. The reason greivous wound items weren't strong back then was cause they didn't need to be. There were only a small number of what you could call "drain tanks". So the only time you had to buy them, if at all, was if a single drain tank on the enemy team got ahead or they stacked multiple healing champs.
Today? It's a mandatory buy. There is not a single game where some form of healing debuff isn't bought. Everyone heals a ton even if their kit doesn't have it built in. There is so much excess of lifesteals that even with items like thorn mail, champs can still easily continue to have massive healing.
That coupled with the absurd amount of overloaded kit riot keeps putting out? Healing is horridly overtuned. Any champ today can become a better drain tank than s1 Warwick, Mundo, and even Vlad. Remember, vlads healing with will of the ancients was so strong that riot outright removed the item. Today? Riot gives healing items and runes out like it doesn't matter.
Thank you, I'm a person who played right when S2 started and I agree. There were maybe only a couple of champs that could heal for a lot like swain, sion (who was mostly played as AP anyway lol) and adcs who just stacked a ton of life steal which was irrelevant anyway because they would be CCed then nuked. Today? I only play ARAM but even then, I can EASILY tell my first item must be GW on SR because of the insane amount of healing there is. It's not even remotely fun to play this game anymore because I'm not being outplayed, I'm being outhealed.
Nothing better than taking an even, or even a good trade in lane and watch the Irelia / Yone / Yasuo etc and see them heal to full health. Or die to them leaving them with 10 hp and by the time your jungler arrives, they are full health again.
At this point it’s almost like a Yone hating circle. I love it.
12:46 That sylas flash tho lmao
I've been saying this for some time, but I believe there's a pretty simple and interesting solution to the healing problem: make grievous wounds stack. I don't care if you nerf them in the process. Sustain should give an advantage in the 1v1, but it's pretty frustrating not being able to kill a mundo yuumi with five members with grievous wounds. It sucks. Numbers advantage should beat healing, so that's the solution I put forth.
Can you post a video or make a community post about your mains and your most played champs since I wanna see what perspective these videos are made from
Favorite thing is seeing a yas or yone heal back up to 3/4 health with grevious wounds on them while 2v1. And win. Sarcasm
Argument 5 in favor of healing : Clutching a fight with lifesteal while on the edge of dying is the most intense and satisfying thing you can do in League
That can be made with greedy items that makes you better at low health, it can even be named like "Adrenaline rush".
@@lemonpay7747 Well that's what Goredrinker Death's Dance and Conqueror do in a way but it's true that there could be a dedicated item. I'd love that on Fiora since she can't recreate her pre item rework builds
@@Abyzdecannes it's not the same, that items doesn't scale around the champs sustain, they scale with their tankiness so they are not broken like doing a ton/healing a ton champs. Conqueror works better if you have high damage and attack speed, so it's part of the problem. Spirit visage is the only item in the game that directly sinergises with self healing champs, but it can't be op because it will be abused by Samira, not Warwick.
I always saw the increase in sustain/healing the same as the over abundance of champs with dashes for no reason; it's a design crutch. Why find a new and dynamic way of changing the game when you can just slap some sustain on a champ and call it a day, same thing applies for dashes. Same mindset applies for making items and runes, you can be fun and creative and come up with new dynamic abilities or you can just slap some free sustain and call it a day. With so much sustain it feels like players often get punished for actually getting good pokes and good trades. It also makes or such a boring meta when everyone has sustain and you're always forced to build anti heal.
Alistar healing really is the pinnacle
In my opinion, we should get rid of life steal and omivamp and let supports heal. Therefore, the only heals comes from summoner spells and supports.
biggest problem is that ap healers(gwenn , vlad ...) have no item counter in the early game since as a tank building bramble is trolling against them thats why i think they should separate bramble vest dmg (still kept on the item but increased) and the healing reduction should be moved to health item(same item for morello)
+ we should have different effectiveness of healing reduction on the 3 types of healing you mentioned at the beggining or make lifesteal less effective from multiple items - like tenacity doesnt stack linearily