Wood Drying Vacuum VS Silica Gel
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- Опубликовано: 25 июн 2016
- This video is about Wood Drying Vacuum VS Silica Gel
rcwarshpp: Vacuum drying wood might be worth a go since you have a vacuum pump & chamber. I just finished running an experiment and found that it doesn't work worth a darn until you add heat.
I use a pressure cooker & have a 40 watt bulb inside. Gets it plenty warm, had a couple blocks (3 1/4" square by 6") green freshly cut ash dry in 4 days. Pulled off 2 or 3 cups of water.....amazing. Had to reapply vacuum 3 or 4 times daily since the water boiled off & was pulled out by the vacuum pump.....or my pressure cooker setup leaks.
The vacuum pump oil will need changing out on a regular basis since it gets full o'crap.
Thanks & Best Regards,
Jon
dc9apu
+rcwarship: Jon: My father use to say that when I screwed something up. Trust me I learn't how to repair something when I screwed up. The wood I am using is usually around 8% moisture and changes with the humidity. I usually vacuum for 24 hrs just to make sure it is dry so the moisture does not affect the Cactus Juice.
Two things might help your vacuum drying. drop your vacuum pressure in the beginning you are freezing the water and stopping the drying process. Look up vacuum Vapor pressure on youtube. It shows the water freezing at high vacuum. Put a filter on you suction line close to the pump for protection of the pump A fuel filter with hose barbs like on a lawn mower works great. Make a vacuum catch can one to two quart filled with descant to keep the water out of your pump. Use the descant that changes color so you know when to bake the moisture out of it. An oilless vacuum pump will be more tolerant of the moisture and won't do much over 22"hg keep from freezing up then finish with the other pump. The pump I am using in this video is a oilless I use to use it for vacuum clamping and bagging.
Did you get any cracking and checking between the heart and sap wood. You should do a video to get the info out there.
Thanks for Watching
Ron
rcwarship
Hi Ron,
No sir, no cracking....a little warping, but very little especially when compared to letting the wood dry on it's own (brown paper bags with green shavings). I'm seriously thinking about making a video, like you say, need to get that info out there.
Thanks for the heads up on the vapor pressure, explains what I was experiencing.
The filter sounds good for particulates, I'll get one made. Unfortunately with the amount of water in green wood, I don't think the desiccant idea would fly. It might work with rough turned wood where most of the waste wood has been turned off the piece. Definitely going to keep that thought in mind.
Thanks Again & Best Regards,
Jon
dc9apu
+rcwarship: Jon, You might look into building a cold trap. I know they use them on Freeze drying food to trap the moisture so you don't slug the pump with water. This is an expensive one you could build one cheep. www.bestvaluevacs.com/coldtrap... Never tried green wood I know the rotten wood does not crack or check I will have to try it on a dogwood tree I lost in a storm. Are you getting the water venting through the pump vent is it filling your oil reservoir to over flowing.
Ron
rcwarship
HI Ron,
The oil level slowly rises over a period of constant use for a week; suggesting that some of the water vapor is condensing in the oil, most passes through or remains in the vacuum chamber. The chamber itself will have a cup or so of water in it after a 24 hour period of vacuum drying. I'll dump the water & recharge the vacuum.
I've found that it's pretty easy to drain the oil & change it at a cost of maybe $5. I've also drained the condensate out of the bottom after letting it set and the frothy oil has separated out into water/oil.
Thanks & Best Regards,
Jon
My Etsy Store
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Thanks for the video. This answered all the questions I had and more, in a "straight and to the point" manner.
Glad I found your channel. Learning loads.
Mark: Glad I was able to help. Ron
BTW, thanks for sharing the video! it was a great watch!!!
Nice work Ron, looks like the Silica Gel is quite a bit more efficient that a vacuum chamber with heat. Thanks for sharing, YOU THE MAN!
Thanks Again & Best Regards,
Jon
Jon: Thanks. I sure hope I didn't steal your thunder on vacuum drying with this video. I had a down tree that I thought would work for the project. The silica gel did work good and uses a lot less power. Kind of a set and forget process, unlike the vacuum where you have to keep track of the water in the pump. Both methods worked well.
Thanks for the info.
Ron
It' sounds like Jimmy Stewart narrating a woodworking video ;o)
I tried the vacuum because of a background with a/c and was not impressed either. Thanks for the video.
well thanks for that
keep the ballast valve on the side of your vacuum pumps open. The oil should last longer then.
Thank you for this comparison video. A tip - blue dessicant gels have a known carcinogen in them, which is why they are generally stored inside packages so you can't touch them. Get the orange ones instead and they are safe for handling, they make them for this purpose.
and thank you for the orange silica gel carcinogen info, thank you
Can you reuse the silica gel
Great idea, I had not thought about silica, I too have microwaved my roughed out bowls, but it still takes more time than I care
Generally I set them on a shelf and wait...
But I think I will be trying this.
Thanks
Take care
Rob
Rob: Silica gel worked good on the blanks but it did warp the blanks a little would like to know how it works on a green turned bowl would probably be about like air drying.
Lots of luck
Ron
But I'm guessing faster and no mold
Rob: the silica gel would be faster than air drying. I doubt you would get any mold I had no indication of any. The gel takes all the moisture out of the surrounding air.
Normally what I do when someone says something wrong on the Internet is go full passive aggressive or I just eat all of the animosity. This seems way healthier.
Pump oil needs changed when it starts to look cloudy or discolored, or it will wreck the pump if run with contaminated oil.
I asked myself, if instead of running a heater inside a vacuum chamber to draw moisture out of the blocks of wood, try placing the blocks of wood behind a fan and compare results under various humidity levels to measure the effectiveness of drying.
Also, I'd try the experiment with the desiccant placed between the pieces of wood and fan to suck moisture away.
In high humidity, (above wet bulb or moist %), a containment made out of Tyvek or other vapor barrier, with both desiccant at cool intake to limit moisture coming in and heated exhaust, to increase wicking inside. Since you mentioned the wood cracked under heat and vacuum conditions, my concern was internal water boiling was cracking the wood due to lowered boiling point. So my goal would be to limit heat exposure to the wood by placing a thermal barrier such as ceramic thermal blanket between the wood and desiccant as a means to prevent boiling.
I bet this approach may reduce the waiting time from days to hours!
garyrich2000: Read the video description too see the reason I made this video. it was an experiment I have been drying my rotten wood in front of a fan for a while. Check out this video where I show it,
ruclips.net/video/bf0Cxhqvvek/видео.html
Your idea with the desiccant Tyveck and fan seems like it would work. But I have good luck with just the fan, it requires little power, no building special containers. I also use the desiccant it works a little faster than the fan but I cut my blanks a little oversize first.
Thanks for the thought and thanks for watching. Ron
when the blocks are in silica gel is the tub sealed or under vaccum or open to the air.
Sam: In the video the three blocks are in a presto cooker with the normal lid no heat or vacuum. It would be better if they were in a sealed container the silica gel will take moisture out of the air. Avoid the indicating gel it is a known carcinogen
thank you.
@@dc9apu the blue gel is, they have orange that changes to green when it needs to be recharged. It is safe. No cobalt in it like the blue .
Have you tried to microwave your blanks? I went from getting a shower wet bowl, to finished below 6% moisture in a day.
Andrew: I have seen people are doing this. I personally won't be doing it I have been banned from the kitchen after using kitchen appliances like the blender, presto cooker, and the oven for shop projects. It seems to make the other half very unhappy.
The silica web page talks about mesh. What mesh is used in this video?
Joe: I have no idea as to mesh size I bought it from e-bay. Here is a link to there page it gives you a size in the description I hope this helps. www.ebay.com/itm/1-Gallon-7-LBS-White-Silica-Gel-Beads-With-10-Humidity-Cards-Resuable-Drying/281302799879
very good thank you very much. mesh size has to do with the size of the granules I just found out. thank you for your time and great videos
Joe: Glad to help, thanks Ron
A little late to the party but instead of silicagel you could use calciumchloride or just regular old salt. Preferably though the dehydradet stuff from a chemical supplier. It absorbs up to 7x the amount of moisture silicagel does, is food safe and can also be regenerated. And its usually less expensive than silicagel. Perhaps it is not quite as convenient as it turns into a sludge upon contact with moisture and is highly corrosive. You probably wouldn't wanna submerge pieces of wood in salt but instead put them on a rack which stands above the salt in a gas tight container.
I had not thought of salt, so thanks for the idea.
A possible easy source, would be salt supplied for icy paths and roads, its very cheap, and can probably be had from any large hardware store.
I dont suggest nicking it from roadside containers!😉
I suspect that simple whole grain rice or chopped rice (w/ more surface area on the rice exposed) or rice flour may work nearly the same as a desiccant too. It would be an interesting experiment. It could be re-dried as necessary and then simply discarded in a compost pile. Perhaps it could also be fed to animals (e.g. pigs) after use too, but perhaps the rice would absorb some sort of toxic/harmful substances from the wood [during the drying process] that could be harmful if eaten by animals. ... Just thinking out loud.
Can you reuse the silicone gel? Or is it a one time deal?
Yes heat it in the oven at 245 degree f for 3.5 hr. per the directions on the package. Turns blue and works great.
@@dc9apu This is awesome thanks for sharing. Is there any place you would recommend spurring the silica gel from? Possibly larger amounts for less turn around time to make usable again?
Microwave small batches for 150 seconds. Works great.
Have you tried soaking (or cycling in vacuum chamber) with Isopropyl alcohol 91%-99%
Displaces water, drys quickly, and should stop cracking/ shrinking issues.
Rick: I think Alcohol is a real bad idea when used with vacuum. Alcohol is flammable and a vacuum pump uses electricity to operate. not a good combination. Stay safe. Ron
can you reson coat a pine cone and make knife scales without a presure chamber?
I don't see why not. Might want to use a polyester resin or West system epoxy.
I've never had much luck with dogwood. Being a crusty old curmudgeon myself, I've read the biblical story of the dogwood tree. cursed (?) who knowes.
in any case, good job on the video.
From one crusty curmudgeon to another, it is really amazing the information you can learn from reading. If my hand ever gets better I will try to make something smaller than a cross, maybe a pen and a duck call.
What's up with the hand? And, what part of Florida do you live in ?
You should check out The Wood Shop in Ocala, Fl.
Carpal tunnel has puts the hand out of commission for three months so far. live in Arkansas on the Texas border.
This may work, but the silica jell is so much money. I just looked quickly and for the blue gel, its $55 for 5lbs. The stuff you had is on Ebay for $33 a gal. It most cost $7-8 to dry a blank. Big waste of money. It would be good if you need something in a pinch, but even then thats still a lot of money to fool around with. And please correct me if im wrong on the price.
Correct $33 a gal. How many blanks can you dry in a gallon? How many green bowl turnings? I show four in the video and used less than 1/2 gal that I re generated. I am ready to use it for more. How long does it take you to dry a blank? How many different species of wood could you dry in two weeks with whatever method you prefer? If you vacuum dry how long does it take with a 1/3 Hp pump running and a heat source? What happens if the water slugs the pump? What does a pump cost. When you dry a blank how much cracking and checking do you get? How many blanks can you buy for $33? If you only turn one blank a year it is not worth it. Cactus juice is $58 a half gallon How many blanks can you do with it. is that to expensive.
I am not selling the product I am just showing how it works.
Cat litter
@@dc9apu the gel can be recharged indefinitely, so it’s a one time cost. Just don’t heat it above 250 degrees. It will crack it and degrade the effectiveness.
Here is how I use a microwave to dry wood for turning
ruclips.net/video/PvffI25wcF0/видео.html