Vacuum VS Dehydrator! What's the best way to dry filament?
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- Опубликовано: 24 апр 2020
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I recently bought myself a vacuum chamber for a couple of upcoming projects. Since it can boil water at room temperature in around a minute, I wondered if it can also be used to dry 3D printing filament. For this reason I ran a huge test over several months to find out, which methods work to dry filament. I investigated vacuum drying, a food dehydrator, a circulation oven, a huge amount of desiccant, and a couple of combinations. Let me show you what worked and what didn't!
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*Timestamps for the impatient*
Introduction: 1:20
Why dry filament: 2:40
Damaging filament by heat: 4:58
Vacuum drying: 5:55
Moisture pickup in open air: 7:30
Food dehydrator drying: 8:00
Storing filament in vacuum + desiccant: 9:55
Do spools dry equally: 10:25
Drying with desiccant: 12:00
Drying in a circulation oven: 12:45
Summary/TLDW: 13:57
Add your timestamps to the description and they show up on the progress bar now its a cool new youtube feature
Damn the summary goes straight to an ad. I'd appreciate it if you'd have a summary with data points that are actually useful. I don't mind the ad, but not having the data there is frustrating. (Yes, I get it, free thing and you need to make money.) Today I happen to be in a hurry, and I know your videos take about ten minutes to get to a conclusion.
@@avaviel Click the TLDW timestamp... Then you only have to watch the conclusion to get the requisite information.
You should heat up the material before you put it in the vacuum chamber to get the best result. Look at this video. m.ruclips.net/video/lnVjxuCc4Wc/видео.html
Or use an desiccant dryer with dewpoint lower than -20c m.ruclips.net/video/gKFJPzi0JYg/видео.html
Being a HVAC tech with years of experience dealing with vacuum pumps and pulling water out of HVAC systems installers forgot to keep capped during installation, the fact that a crappy single stage vacuum pump is being used isn't helping.
A 2 stage vacuum pump that can be run overnight without overheating is pretty much required if you want to get a significant amount of moisture out of a enclosed system, as is the ability to maintain high vacuum for the duration.
Also its generally a good idea to have some kind of water trap, either a cold finger or a tube packed with a chemical dessicant, or be ready to change your compressor oil often as the water extracted from the vacuum chamber will end up in the pump oil and damage the pump over time if the water isn't removed from the oil.
If done right, with proper equipment, a vacuum drying setup should be able to drop the moisture content in the filament way lower than a food desiccator can in the same amount of time in most climates that aren't a done dry desert.
I also understand that this testing is being done "on a budget" but its kind of misleading to say the dehydrator is simply better when half the issue here is that the vacuum setup is just too cheap to do its job well.
This..
I use 2 stage rotary vane and turbo pumps regularly in my lab, and drying solids is always done under red pressure rather than dessicants, it's considerably faster and produces much dryer material. A dessicator might take days to achieve what just an hour of a few micro bar vacuum manages. Although as mentioned, overnight drying on a vac line gives best results, especially for bulk materials.
I demand a recount!
I've had way better results with 12 hours of vacuum pump running than 24 hours in a food dehydrator. I always run mine with indicating desiccant visible through the lid so I can clearly see when it is "ready" to come out.
My experience was with an even worse looking cheap pump that I put good oil into. It gets hot, but seems to work. I just change the oil once it starts looking milky.
@@TrevJonez As frager56 mentioned above, a water trap will save you a lot of oil changes: use a long clear tube full of indicator desiccant, and you can watch the color change, then you know when to stop and bake the desiccant.
I fully agree with your assessment but I think Stefan was catering to the 3D printing community that might not be able to afford a good two stage vacuum pump for merely drying out their filament. I also concur with having a desiccant or other means to absorb the shed moisture and keep it from getting sucked back into the filament once the vacuum is released.
I'm sure you realize this already but you have done the 3D printing community such a service with all of your videos providing real test data and results over all these years. Just amazing!
Absolutely!
I have the same food dehydrator, got it at Aldi. I bypassed the factory temp controls and added a PID controller and a temp sensor. it can go higher and is very stable in comparison to the factory temp control which was swinging around 10-15 degrees..
Just curious, how did you do this?
@@littlecube141 same how???
How??
@@nxxxxzn ruclips.net/video/RNV8F5v13Vc/видео.html
@@nxxxxzn not my video but similar concept can be applied to any heating system. The controller is cheap on eBay or Amazon
You cannot dry stuff (completely) in a static vacuum. Unless you leave the pump running continuously the moisture will reach an equilibrium point within the chamber. When you leave the pump running constantly no equilibrium can be reached as the moisture is constantly being removed. To protect the oil in the pumps in labs you generally use two traps in series. The first bubbles the output of the chamber through sulfuric acid, which takes all the moisture out. The second trap bubbles the output from the sulfuric trap through mineral oil, which traps any fumes coming out of the first trap. Generally these two fluids only need to be changed once a year. Same with the pump oil. You will be amazed at the amount of water that will come off with only limited heating. Generally, proper vacuum drying will move about 1-1/2 times the moisture that air (hot) drying will.
how do you know when to replace the sulfiric acid
@@termivan Generally you just make a line on the container (preferably clear) at the height of the fresh sulphuric. Once it doubles in volume it is time to change it. Usually that works out for us to be about once a year, but that will depend on how much you use it.
@@bradquinn4161 excellent, I see that my job (assembly shop) has about a 500g chamber of dessicant in line to the industrial pump, I am considering all these options to help prevent oil contamination in the future, where might I be able to shop for such accessories?
@@goguyted We used to use two of the used (and clean) acid bottles(2 litre?) with some of the red vacuum sealer. The bottles are shatter proof due to shipping regulations. If you have a local lab they MAY just give you a couple.
Nobody is asking about what looks like a E3D toolchanger printer next to the vacuum chamber at 2:23? I'm eager to get a review, it looks so promising! As usual, great content Stefan!
Coming soon!
@@CNCKitchen Can't wait! I'll see you in the next one 😁
@npgoalkeeper _ wow, good to know the internet police are on the job.....
Many years ago I used to manage a thermoplastic molding workshop where we heated plastic sheets enough to be formed on a mold using vacuum. Some plastics are hygroscopic meaning they absorb moisture such as PETG and polycarbonate (lexan) being the worst. In order to mold PETG or polycarbonate sheets thicker than
Or you could always use an oil-free vacuum pump
@@AU12 Yes, depends on the degree of vacuum required.
What are the health concerns over silica with indicator dyes?
Edit: For those wondering, the indicator dye used in silica beads will either be cobalt chloride (blue) or methyl violet (orange). Both of these dyes are toxic and carcinogenic, though methyl violet is regarded as less dangerous than cobalt chloride.
Using small amounts of methyl violet indicator in sealed packets seems to be considered food-safe, but if the indicator is loose like how you buy it in bulk, you could inhale or ingest dust from the beads, thus consuming trace amounts of the dye.
Thank you, that was Exactly my question (I use blue indicator) I will be throwing it away immediately and buying non color indicator.
Cobalchlorid is a salt… there is nothing to worry as long as you do not eat a lot of it.
@@DrMarcArnoldBach whether or not a compound is a salt is not an indication of toxicity… Cyanide comes in many salts, for example. As does lead
@@tildey6661 you are correct, but I don't believe that is what he is saying. He states his opinion that the risk is minimal or non existant unless you have some excessive physical contact, such as eating it, with the compound in its salt form. The last part of his statement indicates that it is indeed toxic "as long as you do not eat a lot of it".
What it being in a salt form, or any toxic compound being a salt for that matter, has to do with the risk it imposes I'm not really sure. Perhaps he is insinuating that under normal circumstances it is not a volatile compound and your not going to encounter it in the air, i.e. not being a volatile substance, not going to be in the air, not going to sublime, turn into a gas, no vapors, thus your not likely to come into contact with it under normal circumstances. That theory is a long shot and seriously flawed however, i'm not going to look into the vapor pressure and vapor temperature to begin to decipher what his logic was and its based on my assumption that he has limited education and training in chemistry. I could see someone without a strong understanding of chemistry thinking that there is no exposure to the compound unless you physically touch it.
The orange-green ones I bought say they do not contain cobalt chloride. Now whether what they actually contain is toxic or not.. no idea.
Your scientific pursuit of all your topics is greatly appreciated!
Question: "Vacuum or Dehydrator?"
Short answer: "Yes."
Long answer: "Use both. Freeze-driers are a good example of this."
One concern I have is people potentially not understanding the amount of desiccant required to actually reduce moisture. Despite your having shown and mentioned it, IMHO a lot of people just won't pick this up. I'd love to see a comparison data showing smaller quantities of desiccant to help absolutely clarify the "sufficient" quantity.
What if the filament attracts moisture more readily than the desiccant? Wet desiccant will hydrate the filament.
I will vacuum bag with desiccant after the filament has been dried overnight.
@@White000Crow If there was a filament that attracted moisture better than desiccant, we would be using it as desiccant instead of silica gel.
@@jamesgreen4965We actually do use a lot of dessicants aside from silica gel (zeolites, activated alumina, molecular sieves, calcium chloride, sulfuric acid, clay...) you can even find polymer dessicants intended for injection molding (which could theoretically be turned into filament).
Which dessicant is best depends on the use case. Sometimes loose beads, dust, or sulfuric acid can cause issues. Sometimes you need an indicator for replacement. Sometimes you need extremely low humidity (some types of silica gel aren't particularly good at low humidity). Sometimes you want a dessicant wheel which regenerates (releases water) very easily. Sometimes you want a dessicant that works at high temperatures, or very low temperatures.
@@White000Crow that's not a realistic scenario. You should definitely use desiccant while drying
@@coledavidson5630 I use filament dryers now.
Thank you Stefan! I have been toying with the idea of using a similar vacuum system as a dryer for about a year now, but never got around to buying one.
Your video just saved me a whole lot of money. Thank you so much for producing such a detailed comparison of the two methods. I really appreciate it.
Wow! What an incredible amount of work! I'm so happy to have access to someone like you that puts all these tests together and publishes the results in concise and fun ways. :D
Stefan, vielen Dank daß Du Dir diese Arbeit für uns machst!
Thank you for spending your time and knowledge to clarify questions about filament drying. Live long and prosper!
Stefan, I’m just beyond stoked that I came across your channel tonight. I’m building my FIRST 3D printer and I’ve been immersed in everything for some time. However, I was curious, months ago, re moisture. As a kid, I’m 55 now, I worked in injection molding and blow molding and I was very tuned into our dryer technology at the time and the role drying played in the process. This video was priceless. Thank you, so very much.
The amount of detail is impressive. Every video is like CSI or better FSI FilamentSceneInvestigation 😉
Fun to watch and aducational af 👍
Just lately ordered my first 3D printer and already your channel is my go-to spot for technical information about 3D printing. Keep up the good woork, as you yourself said "at least a bit scientific" content is much appreciated! :)
Some of the most comprehensive testing regarding 3d printing come this channel. Hands down. Thank you for all your hard work.
Great video with a lot of detail. I usually store my filament rolls (i use mostly PLA) in the plastic bags they came with. I add a perforated transparent film-container filled with dessicant to each bag and close them with ordinary bag clamps. Benefits are: less potentially humid air in the bags compared to plastic boxes), doesn't require much space, is relatively air-tight, costs next to nothing.
The best review on the need to store your filament properly that I have ever seen.. Keep up the good work!!
I've been waiting for this one! Great analysis. I'd been wondering for some time if vacuum drying was worthwhile. Thanks so much for doing the footwork!
Glad it was helpful!
You could consider this post a "peer review" of your findings. TLDR: I found results consistent with your findings.
I've been running theses "drying" tests for over 6 months now and I don't think drying water is the issue. I've used ABS. ABS+, PETG, PLA and PLA+ in my tests, sorry, don't have the "exotic" filaments you have. I have not seen even ABS absorb much water when submerged for 7 days, that was above a .2% change, (2g of weight using a 1kg spool.) What I think needs to be tested, is what chemically happens to filament as it ages, and how applying heat to the filament changes the filament. My thinking is that heating the filament causes some gassing, chemicals in the filament to be released due to decomposition of the filament. Since I don't have the ability to sample the gases, this will only continue to be just a "guess".
- My method of testing is to weigh the filament as soon as it is unsealed, dry the filament at 135F for 5:30 hours, re-weigh, submerge the filament for 7 days 100% under water, remove the filament from the water, spin dry the filament in open air for a few minutes to remove any extra water that may be trapped in the spool, weigh the filament, re-dry the filament at 135F for 5:30 hours, re-weight the filament, and record my findings. If all I see is a .2% change in the filament, then I'd think water is not the issue.
Does anyone else have any test data to share? So far this all has been subjective data about drying and there is still lots of research to be made - WITH this said, I still recommend drying where there is a filament issue, what ever heating the filament does, it seems to improve print quality.
I'd like to see more of these types of tests, however, I'm not sure if you can get the test equipment you need, or if there' s a "market" from your watchers. My guess is not everyone else is a nerd.
Thanks again for a great video.
There is one major problem with your test method... liquid water has a very strong cohesive force and does not like plastic in the first place... it is not as likely to penetrate as the individual molecules of water in a high humidity environment. Your water was also likely to be room temperature (or lower) which will also affects absorption. As an example, drop ramen in cold water and hot water and see the difference in time it takes for the ramen to get "soggy". Humidity is measured while water is in its gaseous state, *Not* when it has condensed to a liquid... the temperature that it condenses is the dew point. A far more appropriate test would be to "steam" your filament for an hour and measure the weight change, then try drying it.
@@edwardpaulsen1074
Ed, Thanks for the reply, I was hoping someone would reply to "check" my work, however, you have only brought more questions - I like that! Since my numbers are very close to the ones posted in the video, how do you think steaming would be a "real world" test? These tests are to determine the normal absorption of water, during normal use, not try and force as much water into the filament as you can. To go back to your Ramen example, we are trying to measure water absorption with it sitting on the counter, not being boiled in water - We leave our filament out in room temperature air, not in a hot sauna.
I'm sure I could be missing your point.
Thanks.
meance perhaps he is saying to get maximum water absorption, use steam. It would be interesting to see how different the values would be. I live in the southern US, so high heat and humidity are a factor here.
@@smportis Think about what you say - Steam is normally created at 218 F, you your thinking heating filament PAST the temperature that most filament is extruded at is what he's saying?
An open container of water will normalize at the temperature the humidity will be in the area - room temperature is 80F, the humidity is 80F. Any other tests are not valid because you are not simulating the normal environment filament will be exposed to. - Even the water submersion is an valid test, unless you store your filament in the rain.
@@smportis Soory it's early in my day, so I should have used C instead of Water boils at 100C/218F, and filament is extruded ate 212C, TWICE what water boils at.
Thanks for posting this. I dry wood frequently in a vacuum kiln I made. The two key factors are the amount of vacuum, and heat but not too much. Your little vacuum pump should be able to deliver adequate vacuum. I automate my kiln with a simple mechanical timer turning the pump in every 90 minutes for about twenty minutes. I also put a one way valve in-line because the pump doesn’t maintain vacuum by itself very well when turned off. I use heat mats that don’t get warmer than 40C. When the temp in the material reaches about 36C the water really starts to come out. Because the heat transfer is by conduction the maximum thickness for best results is about 100mm. I can dry wet wood at 55%+ moisture to nearly 0% in 3 days. This is 120 year old technology for wood. A German friend has found a 25W motorcycle seat heater to use in a vacuum chamber similar to yours. Sandwiching the plastic rolls between heating pads will give you the best success and speed. You could also try just putting it in a sunny window. However, considering all the messing around, in the end your cheap desiccant in a decently closed plastic container seems to me to be the best option for most plastics.
Do you think heating the filament in a food dehydrator to say 40-50c then stick it in the vacume the way to do it then? Mabye I can screw in one of those water heater elements in the center.
@@warlockd I imagine you’d get a bit of a head start but you still need to keep the stuff warm, about 40C I’d guess, over a day or so under 26.5mmHg vacuum at least - more if you are closer to sea level.
What a great resource! Thank you for creating and executing these reference experiments!
Sir, I bow down before your patience, rigorousness and persistence. I can't thank you enough for the wealth of information you provide to us.
Thanks Stefan! Great timing, I just ordered my dehydrator yesterday and I wanted to see a video like this for years...
Thank you for demystifying dehydrating of filament! You the man!!
I've been looking for the right dehydrator, mind providing a link to the one you chose?
Got some in the description, though you can't get the "First Austria" outside of Germany. Just choose one with temperature control and plenty of space.
Thanks for all the time you spent to investigate! Really appreciate!
Stefan nice video with good information. I got great results from a vacuum drying system that I built for drying nylon and carbon fiber PC but also found it was great for ABS, PETG etc. I noticed that extruding smells are
also greatly reduced using dried filament. My vacuum pump is a small heavy scientific 50L/minute two stage oil sealed model. The ultimate vacuum
(no flow) is 0.1 or 10 pascals if the ballast valve is open. When the
ballast valve is open, the bleeding air removes condensates from the oil.
Have a smile at my $50 stove top pressure cooker vacuum chamber that is big enough for 2 spools (fresco brand but the cooker is sold under many names). I only had to invert one threaded pressure safety relief valve so it would seal under vacuum. I designed 3 printed parts, and using a refrigerant
diaphragm valve that seals to the lid with O-rings I was done. A removable
flexible stainless-steel natural gas appliance hose connects the valve to
the vacuum pump with another printed part. Unfortunately, I only have a 1gr
resolution scale to measure any weight change. Instead as a dry indication test, I print clear filament at the maximum recommended extrusion temperature then look for bubbles in the purge line using a x10 magnifying glass, and with PC I don't get any in the first 12 hours after vacuum drying.
With a non-scientific vacuum pump which produces less vacuum, I would feed a very small amount ballast air directly into the vacuum chamber but only while pumping to reduce the chamber humidity and the pump oil moisture.
-Peter
I just found your channel and now that I have a 3D FDM prinder, I really appreciate all the work and the data. Thanks.
What an excellent video! Covered a lot of outstanding questions, and gives desiccant more weight than I would have guessed. Thanks for the hours and data that went into it... science!
I use vacuum sealed reusable bags for storage with desiccant packs, then dry in a food dehydrator for several hours before printing. Works like a charm!
Wide size of bags do you use for vacuum sealing? It's hard time find a sealer that will seal past 12" for under $400
@@jordanl7489 ebay. 15€ for 50pieces disposable bags, but if you seal and cut well, you can reuse up to 3-5 times. 35x35 for me are good enough.
@@jordanl7489 You can use the bags which are normaly used for vocuum storing textiles. They are cheap and you can use a normal vacuumcleaner.
Great Video, and a very great job with info for all of us 3D printer people! Really enjoy watching your videos.
I see how the vacuum pump would work and do a great job. I am new to 3D printing. My wife got me my 3D printer for my Birthday last November.
Here in Tennessee where I live, we are blessed with many rivers and man made lakes! I live in Middle Tennessee almost at the geographic center of the state! Humidity is a major problem here. My Grand Mothers, both of them, taught me to put rice in the salt shacker to absorb the moisture so the salt would flow. Rice is very hygroscopic (absorbs water from the air) and will pull it away from just about anything. So I put rice in a 3 inch by 4 inch mesh bag (you can buy online for $7.00 or so for 100) and put the rice bag and filament in a one gallon zip lock freezer bag. Zip it shut and the rice will absorb any moisture left in the sealed bag. Put one bag of rice in with a spool that has one half or less filament. I put two bags of rice in the gallon zip lock bags that have filament >= one half a spool. It cost almost nothing, and it makes working with the spools of filament very easy. Just open the bag and switch filaments. When you have a filament dryer, dehydrator, or a vacuum pump, you can only work with one spool at a time. There is nothing wrong with that, but drying them all with rice can be done all at once!
I know I have only been a 3D printing guy for about 9 months now. At this moment I have 29 spools in bags with rice drying 😆!!!
Again, thank you so very much for all that you do!!!!
Thanks for these tests Stefan! I'll be sure to point any of my 3D-printing colleague to this video next time I get a weird look for saying we should always be drying our filament spools before using them to optimize printing quality and general printed parts toughness.
You're a champ! This is exactly the info I needed. I'm sitting on about 40 rolls of filament and while I'm almost constantly printing I need to make sure some of my more prized filaments are in proper shape. Thanks!
I live in a very humid region (40%+ ambient). This is very helpful information.
Very impressive video! This was clearly a lot of work and took a lot of time. I'd had a dehydrator and dry-box in mind, and now I'll get them for the nylon that I'm using.
Thank you
Great video. I was able to use this to teach my son Ethan how convection dehydrators work. In addition to the fact that heating the air reduces the relative humidity, the water in the material will be heated as well, and higher temperature water evaporates more easily (quickly).
2. FYI Stefan - I emailed Taulman a couple of months back asking them for their advice on best vacuum drying practise esp for taulman 910 (a nylon) and other of their functional filaments explaining I was using a small vacuum pot like you, with a PID controlled heated mat underneath the vacuum pot and filament, with loads of dry desiccant inside the vacuum pot - and this was their reply - “With a vacuum unit about 8 hr's max.....usually around 4 at 40C and a good vacuum.
Max temp should be about 60C....sometimes you can make the line a bit "oblong" as it's wound tight in some spools.
As you're doing, the key is desiccants in the dryer....Most don't realize this is the main KEY as otherwise, you're just using hot and humid air and it won't really dry well”.
Thank you for mentioning the indicating silica gel health concern, I didn’t know about that!
Thank you for your high-quality work Stefan👍
Yes! Thank you, Stefan! I knew that dessicant could remove moisture from filament, but people kept saying that it only stops it from absorbing more.
Congratulations on your VR headset! great video, looking forward to more filament recycling videos.
as always very informative, and everything is backed up by numbers! thank you for taking the time and enlightening us!
amazing dedication and time spent. Incredible Well Done
Woo Hoo! I had been waiting for this data. This is awesome stuff!
This data is priceless and you are amazing for putting in this much work and for your scientific approach 👊
Hut ab für den Aufwand! Solche Experimente dauern einfach echt lang wenn man sie ordentlich machen will. Deine Videos sind immer ein Vergnügen und extrem hilfreich.
Dear CNC Kitchen, I am using vacuum storage bags with silica gel to store my filament and I am mostly happy with it. I can also put my spool in the bag over my heat bed to warm the spool to combine the effects. It is a cheap solution.
You are awesome. This was the best treatment of the material I have seen. Thank you.
Great work Stephan. I really appreciate your scientific approach.
That was a lot of work and time, nicely done, thank you. I didn't see an ad before the video...not monetized? 489k subs and no ads, if that's right, I'm super impressed. I respect that. If I got that right, and I'll watch more from you to see, that's worth a sub "just because". Again, nicely done video and thank you.
Perfect timing as I was just drying mine. Awesome!
Perfect! How did it work out?
@@CNCKitchen Quite well. I haven't had time to run the filament in the oven for more than two hours, but even that made a clear difference. I'm thinking of buying a dedicated drier. We'll see
This video is great. Thanks so much for digging this out and sharing the results!
As usual, outstanding and methodic job !
Pretty interessting video! Especially the fact of the dry box. Many people said it only helps for containing the hydrated filament, but now I know it actually dehydrates it a fair amount (not as good as oven or dehydrator, but good enough I guess). Thanks for the long tests and sharing the results!
It's not binary. It works on materials that don't greedily absorb moisture, but very hygroscopic materials may need to be heated. The heat excites the polymers(they get soft and wiggly), which allows deep moisture to migrate through to the surface. PET(not PETG) is an example of a material that needs heat to dry properly.
This basically answered all of my questions, what a great video!
not mine. What about a heated vacuum? what about heating the filament then doing the vacuum?
I'm still learning stuff every time I watch one of your vids. I had no idea the indicating desiccant was toxic, good to know and regular desiccant already added to my shopping cart.
sooooo long waiting for this video - u rock
Thank you so much for those lots of works and showing it out...
What a wonderful work Stefan!
I'm glad you found the dehydrator works well enough - a month or two ago I finally bought one for this purpose. I'm pretty surprised the silica gel was able to pull moisture out of the filament and not just the air. Interesting about the indicator silica gel, curious what isn't good about the indicator...
have to say 2 things:
1) GOOD JOB, very well done, congratulations.
2) Also a good selection of materials and a very good plot of the results, I was aiming for Petg, and now I know what I will do.
3) For the first time, i really want to test audible XD
ho man, I'm so happy you did it and report it this way ! It's a 2 years old project you have confirmed !
I'm sure vacuum drying should be better, in fact you may give a try to it with a 2 staged pump ... going only 0,025 Pa.
This should dramatically improve drying AND drying time, consuming really low energy compared to dehydrator solution.
Thanks for making these test this scientifically compared ! really a huge help !
underated video, this is simple Amazing, great work my friend!
Have you tried combining them? Vision miner is selling a kit that involves an oven and a vacuum pump/pot with instructions to bake, then vacuum and agitate for maximum affect. Awfully intriguing, but I don't have anything that will print peek - which is their target audience for the several hundred dollar setup. Seems like it should work for lesser materials, but I don't have a vacuum pump/pot to try it out with. Thanks for all you do!
cant imagen the effort behind these videos man!! thanks a lot
Always things I'm thinking of! Love it!
Hey there, do you remember my last comment about these pesky audible ads? Have to admit that your ad you created in this video isn't bugging me as much as they normally do. Good job. And, as always really nice video and a big thanks for all the hard work you put into your videos, really appreciate it. Thx! ❤
Great video! You put a lot of good work into this. Thank you!
Excellent test and very well documented. Thanks!
This is a fantastic video! I've seen all kinds of recommendations about drying, but they were all qualitative. One said, "You can't do any better than vacuum drying!", but clearly shown in your tests that's not true.
Awesome testing! Good to know the simple dehydrator is the perfect thing to use for the more common filaments.
Or, if you have time, a closed box with silica gel.
@@pizzablender - Desiccant will absorb ambient mositure but won't draw it out of the filament itself.
I found this video valuable. Thank you! Keep up the good work!
Congratulations, excellent job! Very useful data
Nice video, thank you for the work you put into it.
Thank you for the excellent investigation!
Your videos are so damn good. Hope your sponsors are keeping your business healthy.
Your doing gods work... thanks Stephan!
Thank you for that work I really appreciate it.
As always, an amazing collection of data Stefan! As you stated in the beginning of the video the degradation of material under high temperature is an issue. It would be nice to see data comparing oven / food dehydrated material compared to vacuum dried when it comes to the strength of the material (both x-y and z). From my experience the best way to preserve high end materials is to have slightly elevated temperature (i.e 40-50C) and under vacuum drying, possible in a vacuum oven. This allows for additional moisture to be drawn out while simultaneously preserving the polymer chain structure. An affordable heated chamber vacuum dryer for filaments would be the perfect product for high performance 3D printing materials.
I have a mountain of old (1 year+) filament that I was trying to dump, now its all 'like new' thanks to a decent drying system!
I find that an hour or so in the dryer with PETG improves print quality, even if there are no visible bubbles prior to drying.
It shines better in vase mode...
I successfully use a vacuum chamber to dry my filament. I use a cheap single stage vacuum pump left running all night but i didn't have much success until I wrapped the chamber in a heating pad to raise the vapor pressure of the water. With this method i usually get about a tablespoon of water out of a roll of wet nylon (it ends up in the pump's oil!).
Thank you thank you thank you!!! 🙏 Love your videos. - from Singapore
You are AMAZING!
Keep them coming.
Thanks a lot for this profound investigatio!
Printing from my bedroom. Printer and all my filament is about a foot from the open window... had blowout issues all the time.
Got a tiny office dehumidifier and slapped all the reels into a closed plastic storage tub with it. I just left it in there for a couple days before printing again, no problems since. I'll build a custom proper reel storage / dehumidifier when I move and have a dedicated workspace.
This is super informative, thank you!
Thanks for the video. Keep safe and stay well.
Thanks, you too!
Great work. may I suggest molecular sieve media instead of silica desiccant. It is more hygroscopic and so reduces moisture levels further. It also does not give up moisture as much. I see in your data that the filament was able to pull some moisture our of your silica media when dried and then stored there. If you elevate temperature of the silica it even gives off more moisture yet... Note when you regenerate the molecular sieve media you do have to get it quite hot to break the bonds and release the moisture...
You are doing a LOT of work. I hope you are retaining all the tests and results and you are going to write a couple of papers off these. It would be well worth it, and likely get your PhD (if you don't already) out of it. Great work.
I've had pretty good luck using vacuum to dry filament...mainly nylon and PETG.
I use a hotplate and put the filament on a fire brick in the "chamber" (just a big aluminum stock pot), then preheat until the chamber walls are around 100c with the lid on, then I pull vacuum for and hour. I found the preheat crucial because once the vacuum is pulled very little heat is transferred to the filament.
I also experimented with a large cup of desiccant in the chamber...but it comes out at least as dry as when it started.
The hour process takes about 1.5 hours and has served me well, ymmv but it works for me.
Short term, I typically store filaments on the printer or in a cheap dryer that I got off of Amazon. For long term storage I have a vacuum sealer that I use to repack the spools in their boxes under vacuum with some desiccant in the middle.
great video. I love the idea of weighing. I was surprised how much water had been absorbed.
Cool as always! Including a control in your experiments would provide some extra value, but perhaps not necessary.
you can also weigh the desiccant to determine its moisture content. i remember seeing a garage dryer that was hung from a spring and when it touched the floor it was full, and needed refreshing. probably need to make some cotton bags with weights written on them for the desiccant to make it easier to use.
Please could you do a video on comparing the combination of retraction speed and retraction distance and perhaps experiment with finding the best ratio? Your videos have been a great help but I don’t have the time to test these things in depth myself. Thanks
Excellent Stefan as usual, thank you. Very, very important and useful information, thanks mate, 11 out of 10 👍. 😎
Very nice! We always do the one you didn't test...... hot spool in the vacuum, hahaha! Great seeing the melted spools in there, too, lol! Keep up the great work!
I store all my spools in plastic bags (with the desiccant packets they come with) whenever they're not on the printer. This helps them to be protected not only from moisture (not too important for PLA, but other materials can suffer a bit), but also from dust, since I'm in a bit more dusty area than usual.
I had success drying Nylon and recycled PET in the oven set to ~70°C, keeping them there for several hours or even overnight. They printed just smooth after that. I never had to dry anything else though :)
Ready Player One? Yeah no - but not why I watch your channel and you gotta pay bills.
High quality videos, thanks Stefan! I was wondering the same. In the lab we used dessicant and vacuum to dry products of solvents.