War Thunder Ta152H vs P51H Ft. DEFYN | What Can The P51H Do?
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- Опубликовано: 8 ноя 2018
- This video is strictly comparing how the Ta152H and the P51H compare in a dogfight situation, nothing more.
The P51H is over 70km/h faster and climbs 25% better than the Ta152H at usual altitudes, and actually turns better as well. Indeed, the P51H completes a 360° turn starting at 550km/h in 12.44s with a 263m radius, compared to 13.37s with a 303m radius for the Ta152H (MER spreadsheet). However, the superior Maneuvering Energy Retention (MER) of the Ta152H allows it to either achieve the energy advantage, or use more flaps to tighten its turn to outturn the P51H.
This doesn't mean that the Ta152H completely outclasses the P51H in a dogfight, but it does have the advantage.
Does any US fighter have the advantage over the Ta152H in a dogfight?
DEFYN's channel:
/ defyn90
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Maneuvering Energy Retention spreadsheet:
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Игры
This looks awefully familiar ahaa
It's almost like you lived it.
You want to show me how it's done then? I can't fly it better than that myself.
If you want, you can show me right now ingame how to do it.
Iam just a scrub, I hope you help me with gitting gud.
redtail yeah mate u solo it
redtail no I’m just a noob comparmed to u, if u think he is shit go and fly it out boi
I was surprised how well the TA-152 H1 kept with me in a dogfight when I was in a Spitfire LF Mk 9. That thing's nothing to sneeze at!
Yeah when Ta152H is behind you and knows about flaps, it can be scary!
+Adam514 one time when we were close I went 0 throttle flaps full and full pitch up to make him overshoot. shock horror when he just pitched up and killed me D:
Dumb maneuver
Rule "no running" was a death sentence for super pony. Super pony can't win chandelle and rope-a-dope a low speeds, thus some running was essential (and not permitted)
P51H needs to find a way to make the Ta152H break off, and then loop for the shot.
Doesn’t the P-51 roll better? Or is it just I don’t remember it correctly
@@nightshade7745 152 rolls like a FW at low speeds
@@georgegeorge9361 Ah. Thx for info
Well this is a dogfight, and in dogfighting runing wont help much for the p51
Thank you for accepting my request to make video with this duel.......I appreciate it.
Thanks for the request!
@@AdamTheEnginerd TA-152 is more maneuverable than most German fighters. I think if P-51H will fly on high speed there is no chance for TA-152 to catch P-51.
Yeah that's what the P51H should do in matches.
@@AdamTheEnginerd There is good to see speed differences between TA-152H and P-51H when you starting match with flight in horizont. P-51H have much better performance than TA-152H, but it should be almost same. There is problem TA-152H still missing model of GM1 injection for high altitudes.
@@AdamTheEnginerd that’s why I chase all high alts In ta 152... much soeed
*speed
Honestly the skill on this channel one of its main appeals. Such an amazing pilot who can do such a great job teaching you good lessons while destroying less experienced and skilled pilots.
Just superb flying DEFYN.
Hahaha I thank you for him.
i love how defyn's wins are the "most replayed"
I would love to see a ta152 vs f4u 4b fight. I got pounded by a 152 once in my f4u and had no idea what happened.
Yeah I have that actually! Ta152H has the advantage over the F4U4B unless the F4U4B loads minimum fuel.
Great videos Adam. You are by far my most watched war thunder pilot. We want more !
Thanks for the support!
1 video per week isn't enough?
You fool!
You dared to challenge ta 152 and Kurt Tank himself
No one can defeat this superior Wehraboo machine.
Adam514
*cough* LFMKIX *cough*
Haha shh.
@@gandharvtenali7085 we are talking about planes here not spacecrafts and UFOs
George George
lol the LF is only good if u allow it to dogfight and have a decent team.....hell im able kill LF spits as long as i don’t play to the spits play style
I would love to see a new iteration of this fight. It's always fun flying a 152H against a 51H though in my experience it mostly goes to the TA. Would be very curious to see how the 152H performs against a proficient Mk22/24 pilot.
The spitfire should win, it turns better and climbs better, it holds its energy quite well too
in a low altitude dogfight the Ta wins,however a spitfire pilot will lead it into high alt,outclimbing it and gaining a lot of advantage
I really enjoy those kind of videos , thank you!
Those great close distance dogfights, with a lot of tension, and decision making. Where to turn, when/what flaps to deploy, how to dodge this etc.
You both flew very well imo (it seems like some experts here in the comments have different opinion though).
Wouldn't it be better to cut throttle to 100% in P51H below 200kph, to increase thrust (decrese prop inefficiency). You didn't do that twice.
That's the outcome i thought it will be.
Still, i expected Ta 152H to win even more easily. With a very good pilot p51H can extend his time before certain death (in 1vs1 dogfight) :)
I really like ta 152H, i feel very save in it, since i can outmaneuver most of my enemies (+ i am usually higher).
It would be interesting if Germany would fight against Japan from time to time in air RB.
Both nations with great team compositions, and considered to have the best pilots. In those circumstances fighters performance would make a very big differecne in the outcome of the battle.
I'm thinking mostly about 3.7-6.3 br's. I think Japan would win more often, since they usually have better climbing, and better turning aircraft that aren't significantly slower than most german aircraft (in general). I feel like J2M2, J2M3, A7M2, N1K1, Ki 84's would really dominate.
Because of this, now i have a request!!!
The same style duel with Ta 152H VS any of those aircraft i mentioned above. (except A7M2 vs Ta 152H cause it would win immediately)
I would suggest Ta 152H vs J2M3 since it has the worst turn out of those planes, and has some outstanding stallfight characteristics (0,76 T/W-best in game) so the fight would be more equal, and interesting.
J2M3 pilot would have to force stallfights, to gain a advantage, since i feel like Ta 152H turns slightly better with flaps than J2M3 with flaps (Ta 152H MER would help immensely too in a turnfight).
My pleasure! It was intense!
Around 150-175km/h 100% starts giving more thrust in the P51H. We stayed above that usually, and when we didn't I wanted him to overshoot anyway. Also I had other things to worry about ;).
You're one of the few that predicted that the Ta152H would win then. On paper, P51H climbs and turns better, so without looking at MER P51H would be the clear winner.
Japan would win fairly easily against Germany imo. Japan has it easiest in this order: UK
I had a nasty shock trying to take this thing in a P-38k. Even with flaps it humiliates me in a turn. The vertical is closer but even there the ER appears sufficient to overcome my brute power advantage. I need to get me one of these.
Haha yeah gotta be careful!
The only thing in US tech tree that comes close to p-51H is F4U-4B I think. Unless you'd like to pick a lowtier fighter
It looks like F4U4B stands the best chance in a dogfight in the US tree yeah.
P-51D30
😘👌
Nah D30 would lose worse than P51H.
Bearcat?
@@AdamTheEnginerd could you make a video about the F7F? I don't really know much about it but somehow I want that thing
Funny how “It’s a dogfight, nothing more” finally resonates with folks when the german planes are winning :). Just watched the d30 vs K4 video and I don’t get what all the fuss was about. Maybe misunderstandings on either side but not a big deal really. Never know what could happen in a battle and scenarios like these can really help folks understand their planes.
This time I made it additionally clear that we aren't allowed to run haha, that might be it.
The planes weren't used to their full potential in neither of these dogfights. Sure, this represents their dogfighting ability but the faster/better climbing plane never has to enter that kind of fight.
I think that the P 51 H can win under some conditions. If the battle starts at high alt and the p 51 can lure the Ta into a downward scissors, then the p 51 will win. This is because at high speed, the ta’s flaps will rip, and the p 51 can just keep turning and keep speed.
Yeah Ta152H was nerfed since the video in flaps, turn and flaps rip speed.
I'd say the biggest issue is Gaijoob removing pretty much all the airspawns for the allies while leaving many for the Axis which just makes this issue worse. Mustangs and Thunderbolts were never built to dogfight, they were built to get above the enemy and use diving slashes and then disengage, reset and try again but in WT a good 90% of the time they get baby maps like Normandy and Tunisia where there simply have no chance to even sideclimb long enough to get above the enemy before someone throws a blind hunt and they get swarmed thanks to so many Axis birds with airspawns being in space.
Its bad enough I won't even touch my P-47M, its still got like 23 repairs on it but at 5.7 without an airspawn it climbs worse than pretty much every bird it can face other than the few attackers at that BR while the enemy teams are nearly all birds with airspawns as that is what is spammed, 335s, 152s, there is simply no way to get any real alt as long as the baby maps are being constantly chosen and 2/3rds of the enemy team start out at speed with an alt advantage.
Its ironic that the whole thing that started this mess was whiners going "OMFG Hitlerbolt too OP!" (which I found fricking hilarious as I was swatting Hitlerbolts down all day in my "inferior" Boomerang) but what happened is they royally beat the Allied teams with a nerfbat while the Hitlerbolts don't have to worry about shit as they have 154s and 190s with airspawns covering them while the Allied Thunderbolts at that BR are just getting ROFLStomped.
You can always sideclimb more if you want, it's just that you'll be alone against the rest of the enemy team when you reach your desired altitude.
Yeah airspawns require fixing imo.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Not with Blind Hunts, because you'll get gangbanged by 4-7 guys with 4km+ alt advantage. I'd agree if it was a large map like Krymsk or Alt Berlin or Eastern Europe where your team won't run into the enemy for 3-4 minutes and won't be completely slaughtered in less than 6 but on maps like Tunisia and Normandy? I've had the enemy team throw a Blind Hunt before I even reached 4600m and that was with me WEPing the engine to death. There was simply no place for me to go to get alt before a Blind Hunt had me completely swarmed which is why I agree with Mags that either Blind Hunt needs removed from the game or they need to be locked until the trucks spawn in at the 24 minute mark so that players actually trying to get alt can do so.
This is why I think EVERY bird should get an airspawn, with alt determined by role and climb rate. Bombers would be at 6k-8k (which is where high alt bombers would normally be at) along with dedicated bomber hunters like Whirlwinds and the 410s converted to bomber interceptors, lousy climbers like P47s and 190s at 4k, good climbers like 109s and Spits at 2k, same as the attackers. This way we would FINALLY get to see these birds fight at their historical altitudes, nearly everybody would meet at the merge at roughly the same alt so no team would have an airspawn advantage, and players could reach their bombers in a reasonable amount of time to provide cover and escort like they were supposed to. I think it would b so much more enjoyable for everybody and it would stop the airspawn spam as everybody would get more or less even footing and it would be about tactics instead of who can spam the most birds with airspawn.
Because as it is now you get on an Axis team where nearly everybody gets airspawns against USA on the baby maps? Its not even a fight, its puppy kicking
Wuh airspawn for all?? You'd be removing one of the more important traits of aircraft: climb.
@@AdamTheEnginerd No you wouldn't as it would still reward those that chose to sideclimb as they would again have an alt advantage but it wouldn't give such a huge advantage that you know the outcome before anybody starts. I'd love to see the stats of USA VS GE/IT at 4.0-6.0 because I'm betting we're talking 90%+ wins for GE. When you have one team winning THAT much? Shit be seriously broken man. Hell I blew through a 1000 GE GBW using my G.55S and since I only needed 200 GE to get the IAR-81C for free? I just goofed off, flew like a nut, didn't give a crap...we won all 20 matches and I only lost one round of the GBW and that was because the guy I was chasing J'd out before I could get guns on!
Before they killed all the airspawns? I used to be able to get into some really wicked high alt battles, I remember Hitlerbolt VS P51 D10 at 12km, Stalinbolt and P63 A5 VS 109 G10s....we just don't get those anymore man, just to get footage of the Italian G14 I had to fly like an absolute moron because if I actually flew right and climbed? Every match I'd get 1 Spit if I was lucky (as it would be on average 5v1 against the Spit) and then it was GG as by the time the Americans reached 4k we were at 7km and it was just puppy kicking.
So you'd still have rewards for sideclimbing, it just wouldn't be "Airspawns and 109s equals you win" because the 109s and 190s and J2M2s would have to...gasp shock! Actually sideclimb like everybody else if they wanted an alt advantage instead of getting it handed on a silver platter. Because if you want to argue insane climb rates are fair? USA teams shouldn't exist PERIOD as the average USA fighter had at LEAST an hour of climb time before reaching a combat zone. You didn't see Corsairs taking off a carrier within a mile of Okinawa, you didn't see Thunderbolts fighting 3 minutes after lifting off except that single time in Operation Boilerplate when the Germans literally killed themselves to throw the last birds they had for one last sneak attack. you look at every.single.battle. that US air forces planned to engage in? Average 1-3 hours before first contacts.
Germany, Italy, Britain and Japan built interceptors because they had bombs raining down on their cities, the Russians didn't because bad weather made high alt pretty much impossible and USA had 2 oceans between them and the enemy so you either have to give the allies airspawns that reflect what they actually faced in WWII (which will bring us right back to "OMG Bolts too OP!" horseshit) or you give everybody airspawns and try to balance based on climb rate so EVERYBODY has to sideclimb if they want to be on top, they can't just point their nose towards the enemy and insta-win because they have double the climb rate of the best enemy fighter.
remember as your own vid showed USA VS GE on even ground the USA bird still has serious downsides as the GE birds are simply better at energy retention, but at least if everybody had an airspawn you wouldn't also be handing 3-4k alt advantage on top of that superior ER unless the Axis players actually worked for it which I'd say is fair, you put in the work you earn the reward. But if things stay as they are? Just look at the average cue to see the players know its broken, the USA teams are ghost towns with what few players they get being RP farmers strapping bombs and rockets because they know before they spawn in they've lost. Meanwhile you have 20-30 lined up for GE, just as many for JA, and another dozen for IT because they know its an ez win, its just a cakewalk.
have to agree on this with you, game modes, mechanics, how battles are setup heavily favors Axis not even talking about team composition, yeah maybe airspawn would help a little but than again for example Norway map , axis still outclimb the shit out of the allies since both teams start at the same spot but opposite its not that allies can actually reach desired fighting altitude, its the game design that needs a lot of rework and I mean a lot
Incredible. Love RUclips fights with Defyn
I'm sure he likes them too ;).
Damn, the 152 held its speed and altitude incredibly in the 2nd dogfight
It's what it does.
Man I hated the 152H when I first unlocked it, stuck with the D12 instead.
But after trying it again and learning what it was capable of, I fell in love. I miss that it does not have the same high speed control extent of the short wing models and their acceleration, but the MER is simply marvelous.
Nice to see it getting the love is so deserves and to see others showing it off. All hail the Glorious Slender Plane!!!
Yeah same, I thought it was pretty bad. Granted back in the day it was worse than it is now, but still. It's my favorite German aircraft now.
Nice! Good luck with it, it takes some getting used to!
I tried the D12 first because its faster, better climb & more 20mm ammo. But it fly like a brick just because it have the 30mm compared to the D9 that I love.
The Ta152H are slower, low acceleration & low in ammo but it didn't fly like a brick.Unfortunately they requires tons of RP to be spaded.
This video is gold for me as a Ta152H1 main and my fav 2 youtubers
Hi Adam i like your videos. Can you do a short video about the Stats in the Cards. It fells like they really not accurate. Especially with turning radius on german planes (thats just my feel)
Thanks!
Stat cards lie for pretty much everything except top speed (and even then). Don't pay them any attention.
Hello, two questions:
If the stat cards are BS, is there anywhere we can go for empirical information on aircraft performance?
Also, would you mind adding (if you have it) the Sea Fury to your list? I hear it handles like a Tempest but at 5.3.
There's the aircraft data sheets: forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/forum/465-germany/
Apart from that you can find tests made by performance oriented people like me, I have 2 useful spreadsheets in the description.
It's on my list! It turns worse than the Tempest though.
Huh, I did not expect that. Learn something new every day I guess. What are your thoughts on p51h vs fw190d9? I try to do vertical loops and rolling scissors in my d9, but it seems like the p51 usually manages to get a shot off before loosing enough energy.
P51H loses less energy in any maneuver than the D9. P51H has every advantage except roll, so P51H would win.
Hey Adam514 really like your informative WT vids they're very interesting to watch. A few months ago like 3/4 I commented if you could do a video on the Fw190 F8 as a fighter, and you told me that "I'll add it to my list of requests" just wanted to know if that video can be made sooner. I read that historically the F8 was made as a dive bomber replacement as well as a fighter and that translated to a sturdier more robust frame. I'm curious to see your thoughts/ strategy with it and if that historical description holds any weight in WT. Thanks!
Edit: was incorrect about it used specifically as a fighter, but I remember reading somewhere that the frame was built to be more robust and sturdy to carry the additional weight of bombs or rockets
Thanks mate!
Some version of the Fw190 were pretty much attack aircraft, that doesn't surprise me.
I've been considering delving into non Dora Fw190s!
@@AdamTheEnginerd It'll be very interesting to see other FWs' also. Thank you I appreciate the reply : )
Hey Adam, I know this is an old video but I was wondering if it’s possible to dogfight against spitfires by keeping them off your tail in the beginning and then using your MER to slowly wear them down so you can start to get behind them?
It used to be able to do that, but currently I don't know (it was changed a lot recently).
AdamTheEnginerd alright, I guess I’ll just have to try it then.
Yet another good vid Adam!
Keep going!
Thanks mate!
To quote you in an earlier TA-152 H vid, “praise the energy retention!” This is why I fly 152s, to show Mustang pilots that they aren’t invincible.
Haha indeed, best MER prop in the game!
@@AdamTheEnginerd I'm level 100 yet I'm still a noob at planes. I mainly do tanks. However I'd like to get better and more competitive at plans. Can you explain to me what MER is exactly and if the P-51H is better then my K4
P51H is better in pretty much every category when compared to the K4, but it only has 8 min of WEP.
MER is Maneuvering Energy Retention. Essentially, it's a measure of how much energy (speed) an aircraft loses when turning, and every aircraft loses a different amount depending on its wing, power, weight, geometry, etc.
@@AdamTheEnginerd thank you I appreciate the reply and advice. So the H will outclimb and outrun my k4?
Outrun for sure, climb is similar on average.
the ta 152 is superior because it can secure altitude advantage over almost any opponent this was a cool 1v1
Thanks!
adam you can use landing flaps to get a quick shot at the beginning of the fight, also use take off flaps as combat flaps and you will win every game against p51h.
Yeah I should have just followed every time and throttle down and use flaps, then Ta152H would have won every time.
TA152H should be 6.7 but get an improved climbrate and a booster like in real life the nitrous injection, that could get it to 750kph in the deck and really close to that on high altitude
Nah you'd need like 3500HP to go 750km/h on the deck for the Ta152H, there's no way it could get close to that irl. Its current performance seems realistic and reasonable.
P51H is faster and climbs better though, if the Ta152H didn't have the dogfight advantage it couldn't compete.
How do you get the localhost on your screen? And do you mind sharing your keybinds? Specifically interested in your flaps and MEC controls. I use Alt-F for lower flaps and just tap F to raise them with the default controls. Your controls seem pretty smooth, that or you've just been doing it for a long time.
I record the local host on my laptop next to me at the same time as the gameplay, and combine them during editing.
Everything is default with MEC and elevators added. My keybinds are not intuitive though, I would not recommend them.
My controls could be smoother. I got a new mouse with extra buttons so I binded flaps on them, but I still use the default keyboard bindings for flaps haha.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Ohh, I see. What a shame, I thought you could have the localhost displayed ingame.
Flying like a true vanilla ace haha. Most of my MEC controls are bound to Alt keybinds. Alt-I for MEC, Alt-W and Alt-S for prop pitch(gets awkward when I try to WEP and lower takeoff or landing flaps). Considering you use default controls, that's pretty spectacular you can fly so smoothly.
There is a way to overlay it, you need to use a program to overlay part of your browser over WT and play WT in windowed mode, but I've never done it.
You can also use "Void Mei", it overlays some parts of the local host over the game.
@@AdamTheEnginerd I'll try to keep that in mind, thanks for responding mate! :D
Wow ta152 11:2 win
Thanks for a nice dog fight vedio.
Do you think f8f or f4u 4b can go close with ta152 in dogfighting?
My pleasure!
F8F nah, F4U4B min fuel is about even with the Ta152H.
Do 109 prop pitches work on 190s or 152s? Why did you use 100% prop pitch on the p51h when you made a video on how it goes the same speed at 85 prop pitch?
No need to use prop pitch on 190s and 152s.
I made a video about the D30 prop pitch. At low speed 100% pitch will be better.
i love how the radial engines in the Fw 190's used to sound
Hi Adam, why you use 100% prop pitch on high speed, is there some trick I don't know?)
100% prop pitch is the best thing in the vast majority of planes when at 100%/WEP throttle.
Can you do the G55/s, the premium one, for the next video? Should I play it like a spitfire?
I did the non premium G55 already. Yeah it's similar to a Spitfire.
Hey adam can you play the yak3p cause you make every plane you play look op and keep it up my dude
Haha every? Even P61?
I did the Yak3P a while ago. Another kind of Yak3 coming soon though ;).
12:25 That lead though!
AIRBASE DESTROYED!!!!
Haha what?
Haha warning shots to be polite!
neat video, tho we need actual version of Ta152 vs F2G. Nobody flyes p51H nowadays
P51H is better than the F2G though.
really? Interesting... When im Ta152ing around i have much harder time with F2G than with P51H. Or i might be weird dunno, despite me almost earning ace on F2G i still have trouble dealing with them because it feels like that plane does everything better
but like to be honest, when im in my p-51h , my climb is so dirty that if someone is above me _even a ta152H, I just need to do a slight dive and they will NEVER catch me
Yeah certainly, P51H is way faster and climbs better.
Just my opinion, P-51H is more sluggish than D30
@@AdamTheEnginerd but why is Ta better is spiral climb though? Should be Mustang pet maneuver
It's because of the superior MER of the Ta152H which more than compensates its lower climb. You're right the P51H is good at it too.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Once when I flew the Ta 152 H on Norway, I was alone at 9K alt but managed to get 5 of the 6 remaining enemy players to stupidly try and fight me on my turf.
Couple of Spitfire Mk IXs were so badly outmatched it was like shooting fish in a barrel. They could not even maintain alt to fight me and died quickly. A P-47 came in that might have stood a better chance if he didn't start with such low energy, stalled him out too. F8F went down as well and one guy crashed leaving an F4U to attack me. He saw his friends die and just dived away, eventually crashing on his runway. That left one P-51D to get slaughtered by me (although this guy nearly pulled off multiple reversals on me before I finally forced him into a close range dogfight).
Yeah, the Ta 152 H is GOOD.
Kinda late but...do you think the H1's FM needs some rework like Napalm says?
I don't know what he said. Seems fine to me.
I will say it seems like the Ta152H may have gotten slightly nerfed since then though. It's flaps seem to rip at lower speeds and are also less effective it feels like. Combine that with their move to 6.0 and they don't make great competitors anymore. I haven't felt particularly threatened by them when flying my Spitfire Mk14e for example. Wondering if you have noticed the same thing. Plus it doesn't really climb that well anymore. Energy retention is still the same but it really doesn't do everything like it did before.
Ta152H had a relatively small nerf but still a nerf indeed.
Most people don't know how to fly the Ta152H though, that hasn't changed.
@@AdamTheEnginerd yeah that's true. I wish the 152C was capable of similar feats. Getting too close to a P-51H tends to not end well for it. I have done quite well in it but it's just not that fun like it used to be. It struggles to get the energy advantage it needs against things like griffon spits and the P-51H. It makes me wonder why it exists when there are things like Hornets that do its job better and faster. Or Ki-83s which I feel also does a better job than it at least on the performance side of things and seems to have better fighting capability from what I can tell.
What should we do at high alt? Spitfires and p51 usually outnumber us and cant try to turn, i cant try to dive down only thing i can do is run far away but they are continuing to chase me even though they cant catch up, they give me no turning room so i cant turn around. Even if i am at higher energy state and boom and zooming them after the initial pass they instanly start to follow me i dont know with what energy
You're asking as a Ta152H?
@@AdamTheEnginerd yeah
Adam I got this plane couple of days ago. Not talking about the skill but I cant turn or duel like your other vids with ta 152. Is it about my crew(cause its new) or ist about my plane stock. And getting g locked instantly so they manuever get my back cant turn like you and baaam. Do you have any advices for me?
Yeah without good crew you can't dogfight with this. Get your G skill to around 5 before attempting to turn with enemies.
@@AdamTheEnginerd ok but what am I gonna do until then :). I mean if I cant get wins cant get xp right?
Thanks
You can fly other planes to get crew points. Use only 1 crew slot per nation for air RB.
I once took a dogfight with a a6m5 just to test the capabilities I was able to line up two kill shots with the takeoff flaps but sold them both I was really impressed with this plane
adam please enlighten me on how do use manual engine control in rb I cannot get it to work :(
There are videos on RUclips that do a decent job explaining how to set it up.
2022, and I'm still scratching my head most of the times when encountering these TA152 monsters in a P51NA...
Same, they'll always be above you and you cant beat them in a 1v1
Seeming as you praise the Ta152H quite a bit, do you think of it as the best Tier IV German prop?
Oh, and what are your thoughts flying the Ta512H?
At first glance, it came across to me as a ridiculous looking aeroplane, and I imagined it would perform awfully; however, after watching countless of your informative and entertaining videos, I see now that I really _shouldn't_ judge a book by its cover, just like I did with the Ta152h!
Is it nimble and responsive to the smallest of inputs, or does it have the Bf109F/G feel, rather stiff but truly agile?
I'm no expert myself (unlike DEFYN, Dogeness, you, Green Fury), and as such, I'm still not that good at evaluating aircraft!
Besides, I don't even have the Ta152h!
With its airspawn yeah it is in my opinion. If it didn't have the airspawn the K4 would be better.
Ta152H has a massive MER, and that's the kind of thing that stays hidden and that's why some really like it, and some really hate it.
Ta152H is like a good turning Fw190D.
@@AdamTheEnginerd hmmmmmmmmmm...
not my kind, eh?
Either way, I'll try flying it out!
thank you in indirectly showing me how to get more power out of the p51h
P-51 iz better than ze Ta-152?
Hold my Beer!
Lol pretty much.
Yeah in a turn fight, but if this was a real air RB game the stang would be in space BNZ you.
@@the_snail_foundation5136 and there's no chance you'd get so much time alone to just dance
Strangely enough in my experience with a D30 I do rather well versing a Ta 152. Guess all your videos helped.
Ta152H handling and flaps are worse now that it was for this video.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Thank God
Now I feel really bad for losing a high altitude Dogfight against the P51H in the Ta, even though it was pretty much stock
Well it's not an absolute slaughter in a dogfight then haha, you always have a chance in this matchup.
F4u might be able to do something at lower altitudes but nothing when it is high
Which? It's about even between F4U4B min fuel and Ta152H.
What I learned when the first p51 you get, I learned it's better to go balls to the wall deep.
Also American planes need to have the hight advantage because you know, energy, high energy gives more of a chance to live. Just about all American planes are energy fighters.
But that's me in arcade tho sooooooooooo yeah.
Talking about arcade?
Yes
Can't get the hang of realistic
Realistic is nice, I recommend it.
I don't mean to backseat fly but there looks like there's another way he could have got you when he went down and he did that downward spiral I thought he did pretty good however I feel like another method he could have used to kill you is that anytime that he saw you go up is if he had just had leveled out and allowed him to gain speed and that way whenever you came back in for the kill shot he could turn that in that energy into invasive vertically and get behind you on your six is what I saw that the P-51 could do. So basically download spiral and use his ability to roll at faster speeds better than you to his advantage and then anytime that he saw you try to trade that for vertical energy he could just level out so that way you would technically lose the energy and he could gain his back and so that way when you would come and dive down on him all he'd have to do is either evade you horizontally or in better cases vertically and try to get back on your six with more energy.
The P51H takes the win when I fly. I was in a dog fight against a ta152 and I would turn and let it loose it’s energy then I would climb and flaps down and I would be on his tail and I kept my flaps on and he tried to Turn away so I shot at him and dived away
Hmm that's not something that would have happened back when this video was made. Ta152H got nerfed recently though, so maybe. And if that's only 1 event, then it could be a fluke or he's stock.
Hmm.... Now that I've rewacthed the video and tried out the I-225 and compared it to the P-51H, it turns out the the P-51H is muuuuch faster at 5000 meters when I dogfought one. The I-225 seems to be more durable making me think it has maybe 8mm frontal armor because I normally win when I head on jets in Custom Batlles. It has a weird roll rate. On paper the turn rate should be better than the P-51H turn but my I-225 is stock and I don't fly it at all because of that. But in it I do keep up with Ta-152s very easily. Same thing with superprop Spitfires. I also had a thought on what you said about the BR of the I-225. It's unlikely that Gaixin will reduce it. So far I have like 10 matches flown in it. The first ever match was.... Trash. The team pretty much did everything for me. The second match was the first proper one. And all I find is just struggle with aiming the guns. The MiG-7 has a weird rudder but doesn't have as weird handling as the MiG-3. And during the match I was just slow. I couldn't save teammates on time but then a Ta-152C3 and a BF-109K4 brought me down at sea level and forced me to manuver a lot while they had the energy advantage. But I just held on and they obviously tried their best to take me down but they couldn't. Exactly when they learnt their leasson and tried making passes, annother previously afk I-225 saved me so I baited successfully. So I learnt that the I-225 has some weird low speed roll rate. While it is fairly fast it point the nose down constantly and feels more like the bad handling of the MiG-3. It turns.... okayish to say the least. And keep in mind, this was stock. I have poor gun aiming with it, somewhat poor speed and... lack of turbo supercharger? I dunno about you but in my experience the TB-30K seems to turn off at 4500 meters and never turns back on. I also tried faking a head on with F-7F but it seems like that kills me everytime. And it always feels like I'm too slow. Also this was at 4500 meters. Normally when I start an match with the I-225 I barely get to 4500 before encounter with other proper superprops. But it does climb easily at 30 degrees And I don't go for bombers mostly because the B-29A has huge repair cost and they kind of beg me not to sometimes.
In your videos I saw how you play your P-51H against the Ta-152H and heck I even saw the video against the Spitfire 14 which you lost but then stock I-225 kind of beats them in the manuvers you did. Maybe the MER is better, idk. Oh and with playing against jets, I normally have no problems with that but I still have hard time shooting them down cuz of the ShVAKs. But I seem to have the easiest times when dealing with Do335s. Same thing with maybe Ta-152H1. In SB the I-225 has an extremely cheap repair cost for no reason at all.
So overall the I-225 seems to be better in dogfights which it isn't supposed to be. Hence the weird handling.
So can you make a video explaining on how to play superprops or just film your average superprop match?
P51H is the fastest prop by a large margin below 7km.
I don't have much experience with the I225 myself. Turn should be similar to P51H when spaded.
I225 has a turbocharger, and that makes it the best Russian high altitude aircraft. There must be something going on if you lose engine power at 4500m.
Superprops are on my list!
Clash of the Titans! Nice video!
Thanks man!
You’re welcome. What would the Tempest Mk5 do against this thing?
Apart from run, try to get both of you fast and go for the reversal.
Adam514 I have won a scissors against an H in the tempest. But it was probably luck. I can usually hold my on in a 1v1 in the tempest but it’s always me vs many at a time haha!! I love the plane but I’m still average to bad in it, but I’ll keep practicing in it.
I've defeated many P51Hs in the Tempest. They come in too fast and overshoot, and I shoot them.
I wish I had the combination of the Ta-152 C's firepower and H's flight performance
Can't complain about Ta152H armament though.
amazing fight. Both cases P51 won, the TA actively gave up the angle.
Yeah, could have handled it better.
Here is the funny thing rn most Ta-152 pilots that I fight are ether inexperienced and I keep on winning fights with them, the few times I really die to them are when they are experienced or if they have more advantages than me
you should fly out the MB.5 ;)
Haha nah its MER is too bad.
@@AdamTheEnginerd what is MER
Hey, Adam. What about learning video on 109's tricks?
What do you mean?
@@AdamTheEnginerd manual engine control (airbrake, extra power at low speed with prop pitch, magento position), quicker roll using rudder etc
Yeah I already have a few 109 tricks o my channel.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Yeah (that is from where i know them actually). And i'm asking about all those tricks in one tutorial video. Cuz probably there still are a lot of secret hacker tricks that we don't know about :)
I'll think about it!
if you cut throttle on P-51H and pop combat flaps they will act a lot more as air brakes making staying behind someone just as easy as doing it in 152, also a mistake from my experience with 51H is that he's depending too much on the flaps, on second round while you take P-51H, why use manual prop pitch instead of auto? you just use 100% everywhere even thou at different speeds you need to have different prop pitch, otherwise you gonna gain way less altitude in climb and less acceleration and top speed in straight line, anyway, awesome duel
100% prop pitch is the most efficient setting for any speed until you are significantly past your top speed. Reason I set it at 100% instead of leaving it auto is that the plane decelerates faster when cutting throttle at 100% prop pitch than at auto, which is useful in duels.
What are your throttle settings? Mine is slow for some reason.
Fast.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Relative and multiplier controls?
Do you think the p51h will have a fighting chance? because the ta152h got nerfed so bad recently and i found out the hard way😅
Since the nerf it's pretty close imo.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Thanks for the reply although i have another question.. Which one should i get for grinding silver lions? The fw190d13 or the g55s?
In the 1v1 is it better to climb if your enemy is climbing or is it better to stay level? Do a 152H vs spitfire!
In a custom duel? Depends on the plane.
Spitfire would beat the 152H in a dogfight easily, at least that was the case before all the changes.
@@AdamTheEnginerd What changes?
152H is getting changed every couple of weeks since a couple of months.
@@AdamTheEnginerd What does it suffer to now and what does it do best?
What is your best winrate on a single plane? :D you rock
Thanks!
100% ;).
Which one is it?
Well planes I only flew a few times haha. For a plane that I flew a lot, my highest win rate is in the 90% and it's the Yak3P.
Since the last patch Russians almost always win aganist Japan I won 7 battles in a row getting 2-3 kills every time in I-185 on 5.0 BR it never happened before. Did they buffed russian planes or nerfed japan ones? Or maybe all russian players watched your videos :)
Haha hmm that hasn't been my experience that's for sure.
What do you mean with "P51H probably does better without the timer"?
In the first duel there's a 25s timer that prevents us from shooting until it runs out. That makes it slightly worse for the P51H imo.
I think he means with the timer you can't shoot in the first turn so the P-51 has more time to bleed his speed compared to the 152
@@jercki72 I understand thx.
And Adam514
How does the Ta-152C-3 compare to them?
Ta152C is the worst turning single engined prop in the game. P51H would certainly win.
@@AdamTheEnginerd yea if you are not above the p51 with the 152C you are dead, if he is on the same skilllevel. But i love the better weapons and higher speed. I love the ta152c3
Quite surprising cause never had trouble with Ta152 in my P51C. Maybe cause it was sim mode without idiot instructor assistance.
Why you both side didn't use laminar flow wing's advantage in these battles?
What do you mean?
@@AdamTheEnginerd try make low AoA turn in p51,keep your energy advantage,,when u see the sign opponent bleed out energy,,that's the timming to use your reserve energy to make a sharp turn and grab his tail.
Ta152H will bleed less speed even at low AoA turns. You need to run and climb to win in the P51H.
@@AdamTheEnginerd .not purely run,,keep low aoa turn constantly,don't let TA has oppitunity to build speed.
If you don't let the enemy catch you, that's running though.
Adam and DEFYN, guess how I know it's gonna be good?
You never know!
The fw 190 would win a fight like this?The d13 against p 51?
Nah P51 wins easily.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Well this sucks i have bought the d-13 and one year ago was a very good plane but now it realy sucks because you can t climb anymore like in the past
I was rooting SO hard for the P51! Our boys always get chewed up by krauts in this game lol. I love flying axis but it is much more satisfying shooting at them >:)
Haha that's because Krauts field more useful planes, so US are at a numerical disadvantage.
@@AdamTheEnginerd At least under the prescribed conditions. Earlier comments were right. Do a no bars fight. US aircraft are meant to be one thing; fast. They're meant to fly at high altitudes, intercept and hunt bombers. It's been the philosophy of American aviation throughout WW2 and Korea.
No bars fight?
@@bigtime9597 That wasn't the point of this fight though. It was purely to show which would win in a maneuvering fight, not considering the P-51H's strength at running. This wasn't meant to simply prove that Ta-152H > P-51H, just that it can beat it in a maneuvering fight.
Killed a lot of spit with that gem
Yeah it's possible.
adam and defyn be fighting like chad pilots. im here getting dunked on by an F2G that somehow outclimbed me in a 109
If you're not in a spaded K4, it probably climbs similarly up to 4km as a Bf109G.
@@AdamTheEnginerd guess the ta 152 is a good investment then, knowing that every once in a while id get uptiered to 6.3 in my g10
6:10 when adam forgot to use his combat/landing flaps to pull his nose up to DEFYN
This is not a balanced fight because the Ta 152H is more manoeuvrable at low speed so it will always win in a dogfight like this, the P-51H needs to run to recover a bit of speed, the P-51H is not a turnfighter
Actually the P51H turns better at any speed than the Ta152H. Both the P51H and Ta152H aren't turnfighters.
@@AdamTheEnginerd The P-51H has a laminar flow wing designed for high speed, even in a dogfight P-80 vs Ta 152H with "no run" the Ta 152H would win every time
That's because P80 turns worse than Ta152H though. Not the same situation at all.
@@AdamTheEnginerd It 's the same situation, because the P-51H as the P-80 maneuver well at high speed, in this video the Ta 152H always wins because it is more maneuverable at low speed and the P-51H has no time to recover speed, so it is not a balanced fight, in reality the P-51H is a more advanced and better aircraft than the Ta 152H, "no run" is a death sentence for the P-51H, at least there should have been a limit of run time, for example 10-15 seconds of run, I am sure that the P-51H would have won
P51H is more maneuverable at any speed than the Ta152H.
Hopefully this video pushes Gaijin to finally remove the airspawn on this plane -_-
Intermediate step should be that all airspawns are at a lower speed at 500m. I'd advocate for no airspawn for any fighter.
And it is fit for 6.0-6.7 br
This thing has a crap climb rate at its BR tho
Do a gameplay with a p51d 5
It's on my list!
@@AdamTheEnginerd Thanks, and I'm having trouble playing with it.
It's not very good indeed. There are better US planes similar to that BR.
@@AdamTheEnginerd what do you mean not very good??? IT'S MY BB
and yes I fly it cos I'm tired of germans calling me OP as fuck
@@jercki72 P-51D5 is bad
Just play the D30 it's worth for 0.7 higher BR
Your talk of "Glock" has me thinking of handguns
Yeah haha.
The P47's, specifically the M model, isn't good at all, with out the airspawn, it can't do anything, and every single German is a mile above it at normal combat, especially with an increased BR.
M is indeed overtiered compared to the D28. But you're exaggerating, M climbs very well too, and has great altitude performance.
@@AdamTheEnginerd even though it climbs very well, it still shouldn't be 5.7, without an airspawn. With 5.7 ground spawn, everything is above you. DO 335's and Ta-152's are almost always above you by at least 1KM Both also get an airspawn.
They are above because of their airspawn. P47M has better climb than them.
That messenger sound fooled me
Not the only one.
Where that idea came from...? Since the introduction of the P-51H It was clear that It wasn't good for dogfighting... I remember telling a newbe that It still is a Mustang, yes its lighter, yes have better acceleration, but all of that is for have better energy retention in a BnZ attack... Hell even Gaijin say that is a plane that teach you how to fly Jets
Oh, well on paper P51H has every advantage, most important of which are turn time/radius. So just looking at the main stats, P51H should win (and should win against every German too). However the Ta152H's MER and flaps combined give it the advantage.
What Gaijin says isn't always true ;).
Well many people forget that stat card only aply without flaps
Stat doesn't even apply to reality haha. I was referring to my tests (MER spreadsheet).
Oh lol XP
@@terrado6746 Stat cards don't even ally to the game either, it's also on full fuel.
It was not a fair fight because your enemy always starts to turn earlier in the beginning so he is always closer to your tail than you are to his.
Not sure what you mean, and if indeed there's a difference in when we start our turn it barely makes a difference.
@@AdamTheEnginerd After you pass each other you fly straight while he has already started turning in, I agree it isn t a big difference but it is a difference.
Just as said DEFYN, you can be the besr pilot in the game, if you aim poorly, this will leads you to your death. I realize by watching all your vidéos how aiming is important in this game. Maneuver < Aim.
And your aim is god like !
Honestly I've flow the plane and it is horrible to play. Is doesn't climb too fast, and it doesn't even turn. The only advantage at least for me is that you can fly and super high altitudes (I could fly at 12km of altitude normally)
When did you fly it? Because it used to be very good as you can see here, winning a dogfight against a P51H. It was nerfed 1-2 months ago a decent amount in the turn department as well as the flaps, but it still deserves 6.0 BR with its airspawn.
Well at the end of the day i guess pilot skill still comes into play because i just shitted on a Ta-152H1 in my P51H in a high altitude dogfight and he performed some of the maneuvers showed here and still lost to me.
Well for sure, but also Ta152H was nerfed since this video. It's a much more even fight now.
@@AdamTheEnginerd ahhh the makes sense, im a retuning player so i did forget they used to be OP 🤣
@@AdamTheEnginerd How were they changed since this video? I started playing WT a bit after this video was released
@@_ace_defective_ Ta152H's flaps have a lower rip speed and are less effective in producing lift, and you use a lot of flaps in custom dogfights.
@@AdamTheEnginerd gotcha. Thanks! appreciate you responding to comments even on old videos!
So, this is interesting for sure, though I'm a little perplexed why the Mustang never really took it into the vertical where (I would think) it would be able to exploit its considerably higher power to weight ratio. Making most moves downward rather than up seems to throw the Mustang's speed and power advantages away and allows the slower and less powerful Ta 152H to hang on.
The times we took it into the vertical with the P51H is often what got us killed shortly afterwards. We went vertical pretty often and it never worked out. To quote Donald Trump: "Sounds good, doesn't work."
The point of the downward moves was to increase both of our airspeeds, which the Ta152H can't bleed as quickly due to better MER, which might lead to an overshoot. Also Ta152H Glocks significantly sooner than the P51H.
US fighter and advantage over Ta-152 in a dogfight? P-59A sounds like an interesting candidate but not in a duel format I guess.
Yeah P59A would shrek the Ta152H in a dogfight.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Oh, I kinda expected that, but on the other hand, really wanted to hear "naaaaaah, it [insert some unknown to me expert knowledge]", so edited my comment assuming there are some duel tricks that can make P-59A fail most of the time assuming equally skilled player.
Damn, I can't fully express how nice it is to meet a content creator/RUclipsr/WT Celebrity (:P) who actually frequently responds to comments!
I think replying to comments is a big part of what RUclips is supposed to be, so that's what I do!
You should do a video with PhlyDaily
So essentially.... Crippling the P-51H by a restriction proves the Ta-152 is better? What?
No you misunderstood. We are looking to see which is better in a dogfight scenario, as shown in the video and written in the description. That does not imply the Ta152H is all around better than the P51H.
For example, if we compared climb rates of both planes and I say that the P51H has a better climb, I would not be implying that the P51H is all around better than the Ta152H based on that test. It simply means it has a better climb rate.
how do you do these 1v1s?
Select custom battles at the top of the hangar.
What can the P-51H do? Everything, what he want.
Except dogfight Ta152Hs?
Hello. I just found ur channel today.. I really like your channel and content... wanna fly together sometimes?
Welcome!
Sure I fly with subs often.
The P51H is faster and climbs much better, so locking it into a turning engagement is a stupid rule. To polarise the issue: Biplane vs jet, but the jet is only allowed to turnfight.
What the P51H should have done is spiral downwards while using geometry to let the Ta get closer while actually having a significant speed advantage. As soon as the Ta is close enough to open fire it should straighten out for a second or two and then start a climb. Boom and zoom until it's dead. It's how every american fighter wins a battle against a slower opponent.
You're missing the point of the video. We are evaluating which aircraft has the advantage in a dogfight, nothing more. For example, imagine the Ta152H has the energy which forces the P51H to fight, what will happen? Also most people assume that the P51H has the advantage in a dogfight in addition to speed and climb advantage, and that's why this video was made.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Don't you think looking at the wing loading and P/W ratio would have been enough? That's all you need for a sustained dogfight.
You're missing a few other factors, but that's precisely why this matchup and result was so interesting! Technically P51H turns better (according to testing) and of course has a higher P/W than the Ta152H, but the Ta152H still has the advantage!
To me this result does not make any sense anymore. I just dug trough the data a bit and the results are that wing loading, power/weight and drag coefficient are all in the P51's favour. It also has a more advanced and efficient propeller, adding insult to injury.
The only reason i can think of is the instructor being too aggressive on the P51, thus causing excessive drag. I'll try this with a squadmate in sim soon.
DEFYN should've tried constantly forcing 1 circle fights
1 circle is a nose to nose fight, the fight where planes that have good low speed maneuverability basically live
2 circle is a nose to tail fight, and planes that are very maneuverable at high speeds dogfight
Ta-152 is a 2 circle fighter, and I've seen you fighting the P-51 in a 1 circle and still winning, so that just means Ta-152 is a better dogfighter than P-51 altogether
Adam where is my Bf 109 F-4 spaded? Thicc boi Göring is rolling in his grave from a lack of superior german bf 109's