Lehigh Defense - Xtreme Defense 9mm 90gr Bullet with & without Flutes in gel - Here's what happened.
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- Опубликовано: 6 авг 2024
- We tested the Lehigh Defense Xtreme Defense 9mm 90-Grain Bullet in a 20 inch FBI Calibrated Gelatin Block. We wanted to show how important the Fluid Transfer Monolithic Flutes are to the bullet. We shot a bullet with and a bullet without the flutes to prove that the FTM creates a massive energy dump that stops the bullet in 18 inches of gel. We used a high-speed camera at 4000 frames per second to show the wound cavity.
THESE TWO PROJECTILES HAVE IDENTICAL MEPLAT DIAMETER AND OGIVE SHAPE/RADII. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BEING THAT ONE HAS FLUTES AND THE OTHER DOES NOT.
WEIGHT REMOVED FROM “FLUTELESS” VERSION BY DRILLING OUT REAR OF PROJECTILE
Xtreme Defense is machined from solid copper with the most advanced technology called Fluid Transfer Monolithic. The progressive geometry allows for deep, straight penetration while creating a permanent wound cavity diameter exceeding that of most expanding bullets. Penetrating barriers such as drywall or heavy clothing prior to impacting the intended target doesn’t have the potentially negative effect on the Xtreme Defense that it does to conventional hollow point bullets.
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Website: www.lehighdefense.com/
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0:00 - 90-Grain Xtreme Defense bullet
1:15 - 90-Grain bullet without flutes
1:45 - The Results 
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It's a genius bullet really and why I carry it now. There are tons of rational arguments out there about why some people carry FMJ over JHP etc, but this round covers it all. Solid monolithic beast that rips through anything a regular FMJ would, but when meeting flesh the flutes really get to work and slow the bullet and dump the energy like JHP's. The +P round out of a 4 inch barrel is crazy devastating and seems to run about 1500 FPS almost rock steady.
Hardest rockin' flutes since Jethro Tull
🏆
you won the internet. take the rest of the day off.
Great side by side test. Thanks for posting this.
You bet
If you spray a high pressure stream of water on those on the tip with a syringe you can see the fluid channeled into a tight stream that exits at a angle .I love the results in liquid base material and the penetratiin through hard barriers is fierce on these in 357 sig and 40, nine too.
Thanks for the demonstration!
No worries!
I posted on some “gun forums” years ago about the Lehigh Extreme Penetrator - long before Wilson Combat bought them out. I was an early adopter / advocate for the design. And many responding posters poo-poo’d the product and literally called it “a gimmick”. Wasn’t my job to convince anybody of its worth but I made it my Fall & Winter carry ammo from day one. This stuff retained the ability to create a massive wound cavity after passing through multi-layer clothing. During Summer light clothing season I tended to stay with expanding hollow points. Still the practice I follow today.
Where did you witness “massive wound cavities” being created?
@@7N6ballistics silicon gel cubes and meat-packs, surely. I'll stick with bullet grains that 9mm was designed for with technology that's been proven effective on THE STREETS against real soft targets, not jello blocks. I like the gel tests for comparison purposes but shooting one of these against essentially a FMJ is proof that this is a good choice for a CCW gun? Color me skeptical.
124gr +P bonded JHP will work just fine, and no I'm not worried about defeating 3 layers of windshield, 2 walls of concrete, and an unobtanium fleece jacket, because I'm not John Wick, I'm a random Joe who conceals a small handgun in case a day becomes the worst day of my life.
Underwood's with the lehigh bullets in 10mm are good in bear country as well. I'm a fan.👍
Well , that makes two of us ! I use the same , in the same way .
As a cop who gets to choose what ammo he carries, I seriously thought about this. However, if I ever had a shooting where someone was hurt by over penetration I would most likely be crucified by the DA. I do believe these to be an entirely effective round after conducting pretty exhaustive research though, and I believe they would be a good choice for LE in general as we do have to shoot through windshields on occasion. I've seen HP rounds become ineffective from that.
I think for most people in most situations this round would be a great choice. There are HPs that are great choices as well. The most important thing is to just make sure you have a gun on you.
I really like the Novx ammunition. Thanks for the share!!
love that sound it makes when the flat nose bullet exited the gelatin
Very well done! And the results speak for themselves. The issue of "over penetration" is the very reason why I carry monolithic rounds in my EDC weapon. Great demonstration and video, thank you.
I am very impressed!
Is it just me I love watching the secondary internal contraction implosion 💥 explosion. 🧐 yep that’s what I’m calling it! 😆
Just got my 10mm extreme defense few weeks ago…gotta grab some dies and I’ll be workin me up a few to test
Awesome test 🤘🏼straight to the point without forgetting specifications!!!
Way better than the firearms blog did on it, Matt or whatever his name is used a TUI and claimed it was a full metal jacket when it's not, and said oh no difference. I love these rounds I carry them in my handgun when hunting in California because of the lead laws, and in my subcompact when I carry it
Be interesting to compare flutes to a HP, something like a gold dot or HST.
Agreed, G. D. HP comparison please.
Paul Harrell did a demo and they're not that impressive against a good HP.
It's pretty well known that FMJs over penetrate. Their energy is used only in moving forward. A better comparison would be against a HP.
@@skipmars7979 got to love the meat targets, lmao 👊 that guy is great
@@skipmars7979
Harrell is douche. Bad case of napoleons syndrome There are all sorts of meat videos on Lehigh loads.
Great comparison. I'm a big fan of Underwood's offerings with the fluted bullets. This continues to affirm it. Thanks!
This is my preferred defensive carry round. Great consistent penetration regardless of the barrier....
Excellent demonstration & description. Very revealing. Very helpful. Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
Good demonstration for people who dont accept that fluted projectiles are basically ‘the answer’ to most defensive ammo questions
Now that's pretty damn wild there ....Seems like the round is getting subsonic ....
Good test sir. I would like to see the same test with .45 Acp 👍🏻
Not possible, as the gel block would disintegrate from the awesome power of the 45
Check out IraqVet8888. Did that test few years ago. Same outstanding results
I think that 2nd gel block is ready to be retired. Looks like solidified tea.
That shock factor though 👍
An excellent comparison. I’m ready to switch from hollow points.
The 55 grain .32-caliber version are the bullets that I have loaded when I carry my little .32 ACP - except that they have now been discontinued, and since I have no resupply possible, I have just switched to packing a .327 revolver loaded with 100 grain XTPs.
As for the 90 grain 9mm version, I actually load those in a 9x25 Dillon (a 10mm Auto necked down) and get them cooking at 1800 fps out of a 5.5 inch ported barrel (4.8 inch effective before the ports). I am quite certain that a magazine of 15 of those will turn pretty much any target into "Glockamole" in short order.
And Wilson Combat... please consider at least allowing for occasional runs of the less popular stuff that got discontinued. Even if just listing it as out of stock and accepting backorders or even a 500 to 2000 buck minimum order or something.
Very nice and well-detailed evaluation. Thanks for confirming my choice.
Glad to help
Flutes definitely make a difference. 😳👍🏻
Great demo. Thanks, WC!
No problem 👍
How perfect for you guys to release this video today. I have an SFX9 and a bunch of Underwood loaded Extreme Defenders on the way this week lol
I've been using them for about 6 years now and it's my preferred carry load
Been using in Underwood loads for 7 yrs. Extremely lethal and reliable.
What did you kill?
Need another test with hollow points. Great information.
Coming soon!
Love those rounds, that what I carry in my 9 and 380
Id really like to see this done with .45 acp.
The low velocity of the .45 makes it about the worst for hp expansion, from what Ive read.
This just might be perfect for the .45 caliber.
That’s a great yet simple demonstration that shows why big isn’t always better.
Seems like a viable option for something with a 3” barrel. You can’t beat a good bonded jacket hollow point unless you don’t reach the velocity required to make it expand. That’s where this might fit in.
From videos I watched the secret of these bullets is just tumbling, actually they angle sideways and rotate, it's odd. It does make a larger wound, but not due to the flutes casing magical disruption. In the video, I noticed, he didn't point out the bullet ended up facing backwards in the gel.
That was fun
Nicely done 👍
Thanks 👍
Thank you for sharing
Thanks for watching!
Impressive ballistics
I would love to have seen a hollow point fired as well. Very impressive none the less.
Check over on Iraqveteran8888's channel. He's done a couple of videos on this comparison.
Also, miltary arms channel does a couple including a comparison to hst, crit duty, and gold dot through various barriers and it owns the hollow points. There's also a guy (neo i believe) that posted a video of shooting a hog through the shoulder on a hunt. It wrecked the hog.
Cool vid Guy.
Trust me, I'd really like to see projectiles like this become the next generation of defensive projectiles...
I've been advocating Lehigh Defense and Underwood products for years, the extreme penetrator and 10 mm is absolutely outstanding.
However, this is far from All of the information we need to know. Ballistics gel is used to compare performance of projectiles to one another. Not necessarily a one-to-one comparison of what it does in a human body.
If you guys are really serious about proving these projectiles to the market, I'd really like to see these tested on a real flesh and bone target like a pig carcass or an assembled meat target. Different densities and tissue materials react differently when being stretched and thus have different, permanent and temporary wound cavities.
Even meatpack tests Ala Paul Harrell aren't a 1 for 1 comparison... unless some department or agency adopts these super-light, super-speed rounds for duty-use and they get the seal of approval, I'll hold off on betting my life on these.
Excited to be making these in Texas!
I run Underwood Xtreme Defender 68gr+p 9mm. 😉 But the 90gr+p Xtreme defender is a good duty load.
You guys should make an 80 grain version as well. Bet it gives even less penetration.
That’s the round I have in my every day carry pistols. Think of this: the twist rate of my pistols is 1:10”. 1,300 ft/sec muzzle velocity means the projectile is spinning over 93,000 RPM; the flutes machined into the Lehigh and Honey Badger rounds mean it’s acting like a super-fast end mill!
No it's not...
Twist Rate 1:10 so one revolution per 10" of travel. There is a U Tube Video at an Professional Level of Frames Per Second and watching a Bullet hit a Raindrop showed the lack of massive rotation. True as you say that it's 93,000 RPM but in relation to distance traveled it is 1 Revolution per 10 Inches.
sure would be nice to see this head-to-head against HST...... pretty please
I care less about it being FBI rated and more about seeing the wound cavity. Clear gel ftw.
So you care less about the only thing ordnance gel was designed to offer data on in favor of “rubber”?
It also penetrates several layers of clothing with very little effect. Good, short video to the point.
I've been using Lehigh for years and now I keep them in my LCP Max, normally buy them through Underwood
Do you use the XD or XP in your Max?
@@richardefriend You had me wondering so I had to go look.. they are the 90gr extreme penetrators 1100 FPS, now I also have some Lehigh 90 grain extreme penetrators 950 FPS and I also keep some +p hp 90 grn bonded jhp 1200 FPS, very hot, I got a set of extra power springs from Wolff... But my LCP ll jammed with them one time, so I don't use them in the max
Need to distinguish between the Extreme Penetrator and Extreme Defense bullets. The later is what is intended for CCW if I understand correctly.
No. They are totally different.
I have the 85gr .30 cal in 300 Blackout. Around 2550 fps. Nice to see the performance in gel.
With over 100ft-lbs less energy, I’d like to see a comparison between this and Corbon, which is what I carry. Interesting in that it achieves it purpose in a slightly different manner, but energy on target has still got to count for something.
The energy in hydrodynamic bullets isn't as big of a factor in the damage they do. The velocity of the material ejected from the channels is what does the damage.
That is why they use the light for caliber bullets.
Would love to see a comparison to a hydra shock. Seems like they’re trying to re-invent the wheel here.
I carry the 9mm 90gr. +p+ on a CZ P01. Great round. Very low recoil for the amount of energy it puts down.
That what I carry in my p-01 also!
Now, will these cycle in an HK SP5k or an MKE like an FMJ will?
Impressive
good energy transfer!......dang 😎😎
Those added gel sound effects😂
Is this the bullet FJB used in his exhaustive testing and determination that 9mm blows out lungs?
Why use this round over a proven HP
These will penetrate very thick common barriers as expansion does not occur, auto glass and sheet metal as well as layered wood and drywall can strip a hollowpoints jacket off or plug or blunt it .
Hmmm, interesting info
The difference in the wound channel looked pretty impressive as well...
0:55 what technique did he do to keep that muzzle from rising , it seriously was locked into the vice, the only thing moving was the slide reciprocation? Could anyone clue me in ?
This has been my 380 carry ammo since I discovered it. That was long before Wilson Combat purchased them. I am always happy to be doing business with WC
👍
Very nice
Thanks
@WilsonCombat Video idea, could you do a video showing the range performance and cycling reliability of the cartridge? To show fluted shaped ammo reliability overall. I think reliability is the most important factor for a self defense tool in a worst case situation.
Apples to oranges, i.e. fmj to fluted. Yes, the penetration is less, but so is it with a good JHP. The key factors for me are penetration and permanent wound channel. So unless there is some hydrostatic tissue damage, which I am unaware of in subsonic rounds, then I do not see the point of the test or any reason to change form a 124gr Gold Dot or 124 HST.
But it’s not an FMJ, it’s a solid. The point of the video is to show how effectively the flutes work. There are LOTS of other videos comparing these FTMs to JHPs, and ultimately the answer is: they work about the same, except, the FTM never has failures from the hollow point plugging or deforming, thus the performance of FTMs is more consistent.
What mma10 said. Look up iraqveteran8888 and military arms channel. They both have several videos comparing this round to gold dot, hst and hornady duty and it out performs on barrier test everytime and is on par with hst in bare tests. Also seen neo's video take down a hog with one through the shoulder and it wrecks face.
This must be that ammo that rips your lungs out, FJB said so!
Have you tested the robot killers !
Do you have info on homicide forensic autopsies with that defense bullet?
I use EDs loaded by Underwood in any gun I carry
Show us the wound channel in one of those WC Ranch hogs.
What happens when you use this bullet profile in a 115,124 and 147 grain bullet? I am sure it has been done, but what happens? I get that the 90gr can go fast enough to get the rpm up and cause more effect.
Same thing but in different calibers. This is 9mm.
Fluid transfer works better at higher velocities; therefore, not a lot of worth in heavy (slower) bullets. They make a 100 or 105 which is exclusively sold to Black Hills, but I wouldn’t want anything heavier. The solid, non-expanding construction makes them penetrate like a heavier bullet anyway. When thinking of this technology, one must drop the old paradigm of traditional bullet weights.
how can they weigh the same and be same size dimensions if one is missing chunks of material, where fluted?
Why have I never read acknowledgement by anyone of Charles Kelsey actually being the developer of this bullet?
What if ut had a little hole in front of the flutes
People aren’t saying it’s a gimmick…people are rightfully questioning whether or not the disruption amounts to anything more than a temporary stretch cavity. If the disruption is nothing more than TSC is means you have a FMJ wound profile with hollow point penetration…. Bill Wilson hunts enough pigs…why not use service caliber handguns to do so and see how it shakes out in a 100+lbs critter…
Extreme disruption of all your bodily fluids in a nanosecond does far more damage than wound cavity. Get with current technology
Pig comparisons would be the appropriate test. Gel is only valid for depth and expansion, and even then only in the abstract. The stretch cavity makes for dramatic high speed photography but is a mere artifact of the test. Tissue stretches but doesn’t tear until about 2000fps. Dumping energy to limit over penetration is nice, but simply warming up tissue isn’t the same as wounding it.
Neo has a video taking a hog down through shoulder bone. It wrecked the hog.
@@jpo2311 I have seen the videos…they lack details and are more of speculation. From what I’ve seen its like shooting hard cast…which is to say it’s lethal, but no different than a flat nose projectile.
The XD round is nothing at 1300 fps. Shoot an Underwood 68gr or 90gr XD out of a 357 Sig if you want to see what this bullet can do.
Big fan of fluted, but... How can they be the same weight, when one doesn't have the material that makes the flutes?
It's not that it's a gimmick , it just hasn't been proven compared to other types of defensive ammo in real life shootings . Only real advantage I can see in it is if you live in a state that restricts hollow points and may be if you being super anal about weight . Other then that the big difference in bullet weight gotta just test it for proper groupings .
In some cartridges such as .380, 9x18mm Makarov, .38 special and similar JHPs often perform poorly or even fail to expand at all due to the lower speed and mass of these rounds -and end up acting just like FMJ instead. This is where these fluted monolithic bullets really shine.
Also. They don't tend to be deflected by bone, and even thick skull plates like in bear and large predators. They even shoot through auto glass and sheet metal without being deflected hardly at all which is something that can not be said for JHP, or even FMJ for that matter.
Proven by whom?? FBI? They’re too busy raiding senior citizens homes with crisis team.
@@svbarryduckworth628 True true , if they feed we'll go for it . They do have better hunting applications then anything else really , .380 and .38 perform good with a certain set of hollow points you gotta be very brand and load picky with them that's really it .
@@rueridge7597 lmaooo I was thinking more a major police department.
My everyday carry for years in 357 sig. Also makes your carry load out a lot lighter.
What grain weight? How's the recoil??
@@kevinrichardson8859 68 grain at over 2100 fps. Recoil doesn't bother me.
How?
As of today, it’s my new edc ammo
I have yet to see any real world usages of this type ammunition…. with that in mind I’m sticking with a known quantity for my EDC , Gold Dot ( that’s what my former LE Department started carrying in ‘97 and still does to this day )
Supercavitating bullets have been used in big game hunting for decades. The Lehigh version has been used in deer and hog hunting with as expected results. They have large wound cavities in soft tissues and are not deformed or slowed down by heavy bones or brush.
If you haven't seen it, you aren't looking.
@@ihcterra4625 Oh I’m aware of those , rifle bullets pushed at rifle velocities, but don’t get twisted and think pistol velocities on real humans are one and the same …. Gold Dot , HST, Golden Saber and Winchester Ranger/ PDX ( Black Talon ) have real world stats … I’m from Missouri, Show Me .
@@thomascarpenter7415 They have used them in muzzle loaders and large heavy big game rifles that shoot around 1800 ft/sec. Since the Leghigh Xtreme series is all light for caliber, the velocities are above normal handgun bullets. Human meat isn't much different from deer or hog meat.
The big game bullets are called hydrostatically stabilized and were invented in the 1970s. So it isn't new. There is plenty of data available if you don't want to remain ignorant.
It's your choice, you can use any bullet you want for whatever reason you want. You don't have to use or even like the hydrodynamic bullets.
Just don't bash something you choose to remain ignorant of.
Years ago I've loaded my 40 SUPER with 100gr fluted. I was able to get 2000 ft/s with my STI 5" 1911.
Impressive
What was the velocity of the two rounds
~1300 fps
Send some to Canada please
Wilson owns Lehigh... but Underwood also uses Lehigh. or check with your local shop as see if they can get you some.
I shoot a 45 70 with same bullet , 5 shots one hole ,, from canada 🇨🇦
Ok so it's ball ammo that can be used for SD in a pinch cool. Without expansion it's just a glorified very expensive FMJ that's all it is. Plus I would venture to guess that the lighter 90gr bullet does not fare well against bone strikes just saying.
Wrong. Look up neos video of him taking a hog down through the shoulder blade. It absolutely wrecked the hog. Many videos of out there of this round out performing top hp through barriers. Its meant to be light and fast. Physics for the win!
@@jpo2311 physics kicks in at about 2200 FPS on this case, this round does not quite make it there. That's why rifles are king of the hill, because 20 inch barrels have been making ball ammo SD ammo for 60+ years.
@@fate930 357sig can get you to 2100-2200 fps with 68 grain xd
@@kevinrichardson8859 we all know light for caliber bullets always underperform penetration wise
Extreme penetrator for 380, extreme defender for 9-mm. That is my preferred carry ammo.
The fluted one made a huge temporary wound channel also
9mm?
How are they the exact same weight?
We drilled out the base.
How will this round perform through clothing?
The same. It is a true barrier blind design.
I'll stick with my .45 ACP hydro shocks thank you
So why do I feel like this video is proving why I shouldn’t buy the fluted? WC sells them on their website and they’re not cheap.
better wound cavity and you won't kill your neighbour... You want all or at least most of the energy dumped into your target. It's the best result.
Oh, I got it backwards. I had to rewatch the video
Hmmmm….interesting.