Massad Ayoob: The necessity of high capacity magazines. How many rounds are needed? Critical Mas 45
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- Опубликовано: 26 июн 2024
- A question we commonly receive is how many bullets do you really need? Today, are 6, 7, or 8 rounds enough? Massad Ayoob takes into account many current factors that led him to believe that the more rounds the better. The Wilson Combat SFT9 uses a high capacity magazine with 15 or 18 rounds.
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Critical Mas(s) with Massad Ayoob is a show that provides expert analysis over a wide range of contemporaneous topics related to civilian and law enforcement self-defense, the use of force, and second amendment issues, provided by a renowned and established author with a career spanning decades in training law enforcement officers and the public at large, who is frequently called upon to provide expert witness testimony.
ABOUT MASSAD AYOOB:
Massad Ayoob has been handgun editor of GUNS magazine and law enforcement columnist for AMERICAN HANDGUNNER since the 1970s and has published thousands of articles in gun magazines, martial arts publications, and law enforcement journals. He is the author of some twenty books on firearms, self-defense, and related topics, including “In the Gravest Extreme” and “Deadly Force,” widely considered to be authoritative texts on the topic of the use of lethal force.
The winner of the Outstanding American Handgunner of the Year Award in 1998, Mas has won several states and regional handgun shooting championships. Ayoob was the first person to earn the title of Five Gun Master in the International Defensive Pistol Association. He is the current President of the Second Amendment Foundation. He served 19 years as chair of the Firearms Committee of the American Society of Law Enforcement Trainers, and several years as a member of the Advisory Board of the International Law Enforcement Educators and Trainers Association. In addition to teaching for those groups, he has also taught
for the International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors and the International Homicide Investigators seminars.
Mas has received judicial recognition as an expert witness for the courts in weapons and shooting cases since 1979, and served as a fully sworn and empowered, part-time police officer for 43 years, mostly at supervisor rank. Ayoob founded the Lethal Force Institute in 1981 and served as its director until 2009, and now trains through Massad Ayoob Group. He has
appeared on CLE-TV delivering continuing legal education for attorneys, through the American Law Institute and American Bar Association, and has been retained to train attorneys to handle deadly force cases through the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network. Ayoob served for two
years as co-vice chair of the Forensic Evidence Committee of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. He also appeared in each episode of Personal Defense TV (Sportsman’s Channel).
0:00 - How important is capacity?
2:00 - Multiple, Skilled Invaders
3:45 - Bad Guys on Drugs
5:30 - 10 Round Magazine Limits
6:25 - Carry Enough Ammunition
#MassadAyoob #WilsonCombat #CriticalMas 
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How much capacity do you need?
As many as it might take to stop a threat to my life. It is not, nor will it ever be, the government's nor anyone else's job to tell me how many rounds I might need to be able to defend myself should that need arise.
You won't know until after you need them. If you only need 1, great, but do you only want to carry 1 or 2 even? I have a G23 loaded with a factory G23 mag (13rnds) then an ETS G22 mag (16rounds) so with the 1 in the chamber I have 30 rounds on me. I also keep a spare G22 mag loaded in the car & a full box of ammo also, so if I am in my car or can get to it that's another 66 rounds.
Depends On The Situation.
One if properly placed
As many as the gun can physically hold.
I'm not James Bond, and there could be a gang.
I can't believe I used to read Massad's Guns and Ammo column in middle school in the early 80's and he's still around dispensing wisdom!
Same here. Him, Jordan, Elmer, Cooper, and Askins to name a few... those were some great years to be young in.
He is, indeed, a legend in defensive shooting. When he chooses to speak, ALL gun owners should choose to listen carefully.
Same here I always loved reading his articles. When this man speaks you best listen, he's an absolute treasure trove of experience and wisdom.
No matter the topic, or whether he talks for five minutes, or if he talked for 50-hours straight, I dread, DREAD, knowing that every word he speaks is creeping that much closer to the point that, unfortunately, he's going to stop. Until the NEXT opportunity I have the honor and pleasure to hear him again, which is never soon enough. Mas, there are no words that I can express that shows the depth of my RESPECT and APPRECIATION for what you do. Regards, Sir. -David Innis.
True guru fosho fosho.
From a California resident, thank you for making videos like this. When law-abiding Americans are being denied their Constitutional rights in ANY state, it is EVERY state's problem.
Yes. The other states are starting to realize it isn't just California.
@@jaybizzle9038 I don’t pay much attention to the news up there I’m an ohioan what’s happening?
@@jaybizzle9038 Grandfather clause does not allow for inheriting either.
Your kids can't buy and your guns die with you.
creeping tyranny.
@@jaybizzle9038 meaning for Michigan originally I’m a palled at the way things are going there. I can’t believe you’re tired of a governor who is reelected after her horrible performance during Covid.
NYC has legal carry now after a 100yrs! never thought I'd see that day coming but we can now CARRY LEGALLY no matter what that pos faux-gov hochul does, the courts over-ride that bitch on the usual UNCONSTITUTIONAL TACTICS she's trying to pull
WE THE PEOPLE ARE WINNING THIS FIGHT AND THANKS TO REAL POTUS DONALD TRUMP THAT MADE IT HAPPEN
Outstanding. I was with Dallas PD for 28.5 years. In my 12th year I was in a gunfight with a suspect armed with and SKS with about 60 rounds at his disposal. We were engaged first from about 15 yards but later from about 50. It took me to my 3rd magazine before I finally hit him from 50 yards away with a Sig 357. In a dynamic gunfight, there is movement. When there is movement or distance involved you will spend more rounds. The static paper target creates training scars as do video games where your butt never leaves the couch. Great video.
God bless you! My husband was DPD in the 1990's and his partner, in SE, was Michael Smith (RIP). I pray for LEO's safety all the time and glad my husband isn't in the biz anymore.
I cannot find the video from several years back where two police officers got into a gunfight with 2 brothers in a blue Chevy Blazer on the side of the road. It started with one of the brothers, the driver, pulling a gun while the cop was standing at the drivers' window, that close. The other cop was 2 to 3 yards away from the passenger side of the Blazer, on the grass to the side of the road. When the gunfight was over, 60+ rounds had been fired between the four people involved, and not a single person hit - luckily also not even any innocent bystanders. I know you know, but I share this for others, just to lend support to what you said. In another video, not Massad's though, about the difference between .380 and 9mm for defensive carry, an Internet warrior expert made the argument, and I'm paraphrasing but this is close to exact, "Caliber doesn't matter when shot placement is perfect". I've certainly never pulled, pointed, or shot a gun in anger or for defense, nor have I been (officially trained - because I did have my military familiarization and my CCW training and I practice a reasonable amount) trained to do so. But I think I am correct when I say that perfect shot placement, when the target is shooting back, is an accident and not a plan.
The roadside firefight I mentioned is proof as are many other documented stories from police, including your own. Having enough ammunition is critical. I don't mind the attempt by gun rights supporters to replace "large-capacity magazine" with "standard-capacity magazine", but it's completely wrong to do so. First off, if we defend the "standard capacity" magazine then we leave wide open the 31-round through the 250-round magazines because they're larger than standard capacity. I am perfect capable, and willing, to defend having a large-capacity magazine. In fact, if I could handle a gun carrying 1000 rounds and there was a magazine that could reliably deliver a thousand rounds, why wouldn't I enter a self-defense gun fight with a 1000-round magazine attached? If it existed and a person could reasonably hold and manage the weight during a gun fight, what would be the downside? I want as high of capacity magazine as I can carry and still hold the weight of my gun, and that will deliver ammunition to the gun's chamber as fast as the loading mechanism of the gun will handle. If I had shoulders and biceps like some of these cops and special forces on RUclips today, I might be in the market for a 2000-round magazine. Yes, you need as high-capacity of magazine as you can possibly use and you have the right to have and use it, not just at the range but in your bedroom for self-defense.
Only leos and Tactical Reponse Team officers know this. People get hooked on thier static target shooting. I tell them its a diff deal when badguys are moving and or so are you. I spent years on a Tac Team. The first time you run a Tac course its an eye opener.
The problem is that nervous people (including policemen) just keep shooting without realizing it, and that creates media firestorms.
Bigger bullets, smaller magazines, heavier triggers and more training *don't* create media firestorms.
You sir are dead on right. Static shooting builds egos but it does not mean much in a dynamic situation. A good Tac course that makes you move and deal with moving targets will open ones eyes!!!
Mindset. Does not matter if you have a single stack 1911, a revolver, or a high capacity pistol. The most important thing is that you know what your carry piece can and cannot do. Train hard with it. Bring extra magazines or speed loaders. The more magazines or speed loaders, the better. Let us not forget the Browning Hi-Power who was, in my opinion, the most popular Wonder 9 before the Glock 17 came out. To quote Clint Smith: "Beware the man who only has one gun. He probably knows how to use it."
No disrespect intended toward Mr. Smith, but we've just heard a guy who I think all of us would agree "knows how to use it" and he is advocating for more capacity. That's good enough for me.
It was about 2003 or 04 I did a real, detailed written threat assessment for myself and my location. I am a retired Army officer and spent a lot of time as a Strategic Planner at several 4-star commands, major Combatant Commanders. Threat assessments weigh heavily into writing plans and operations orders for large units. After being honest and doing this assessment, I determined my daily carry gun was not going to be a revolver any longer. This was not a fun task because I personally love revolvers. Yes, I grew up with 1911s both at home and in the Army prior to changing over to the M9. But this was later as I said. I needed to catch up with the times, i.e., the threat.
It is now 2022. People must understand a few factors in threat analysis. Something can be very unlikely but the most dangerous. (a nuclear war for example). Also, something might be very likely but not as dangerous. As a planner I tried to zero in on the most likely and most dangerous threats for the commanders. We all need to think like this in order to evaluate our own situations. A farmer in rural Kansas vs a person living in Philadelphia will have a host of different criteria to make an evaluation. Myself? I live 60 miles from the Mexico border in South Texas! The threat here? I would love to take a minimum of a four-vehicle convoy with crew served weapons to go to town for groceries and have a platoon of infantry at the house every evening. It is my wife and I and our dogs, goats, chickens and some cows. My neighbors are all great people but they are not near by.
Technology for security purposes is VITAL. My dogs are VITAL. My firearms are VITAL. This place is my Alamo. I will not leave. I am in it to win it. Illegal entrants are the threat. They are not friendly, hardworking Mexicans coming seasonally to work and earn money. Those are all already here or smart enough to see America looks too dangerous these days.
My best advice? Watch Mas in all videos he is in. You will learn a lot. Also, the man has written quite a few books. Order them and read them. Here is the uncomfortable part. Train. Train with a purpose. Train like your life and your family members lives depend upon it. Strive to make things simple. The Army has battle drills for all weapons systems. These drills focus on learning how to get the weapon into action, the same way every time, how to reload it, clear it, and get back into action, the same exact way every time. The drills are done to the point it becomes "muscle memory". Become an expert marksman or as close as you can become. If a weapon is to be used for carry, home defense, a trunk or truck gun, master it.
This is the hard part folks. If you have to fight, understand that it is not over until it is over. If in the fight get to gettin" as an old First Sergeant used to say. Get it done with a purpose. The martial aspect of it is only half the equation. The mental / emotional / spiritual side must be in order BEFORE any fight. If these last three are not solid in you as an individual, your chances are greatly reduced and your risk level just went up. I am not preaching. I am sharing.
Lastly, your physical condition is important, regardless of age. I cannot run any more for physical training. I walk, ride a mountain bike, lift weights, and eat right, not perfect, but as best I can. I take supplements, i.e. a bunch of vitamins, beet root for blood pressure, and do not drink much. (yes, I like a cold beer once in a while). Start small and each week make yourself do better. It works. If you do not exercise trying to do too much too soon makes people quit. If you can do 1 push up each day this week, next week you do 2 per day, and so on.
I keep my firearms clean and ready to go at all times. That is military habit I cannot dismiss. I challenge all the Patriots on this channel to assess your environment, assess the threat. Consider your skill level. Consider your fitness and diet. Keep or get in shape in the mental / emotional / spiritual realm. We are going to need each and every single one of you in the coming days. This country is not going to repair itself via how things are being done currently. Stay alert, practice situational awareness and danger area avoidance. God bless each of you and stay safe.
We have no clue who's in our country now. I stay in a lot of hotels for my job and one of them in east TX had border crossers living in the hallway of the hotel on my floor. Staying overnight with doors open and literally lying on the hallway floor at night drinking beer. No kidding. Its dangerous times of disappearing security.
Well said, and well written sir! Your comments are inspiring to say the least. Thank you so very much for commenting. You made my evening.
Roger that.
10-4 THANKS!
Wish I had read your book instead, it's probably shorter.
Thank you so much Sir! I am an ER physician trained at UCLA and working in Oregon. The last case I had, a man shoved 3 steak knives into his victim’s head and neck. Here in Oregon, elicit drugs are largely legal and EVIL walks amount us, and at times, difficult to recognize until it is too late. Three days before Measure 114 was to become “Law”, a trip to Sportsman’s Warehouse showed empty gun displays, and lines of customers holding numbers waiting to see if any firearms were left! All while 41,000 Oregonians awaited to see if they cleared their Background Check ( Something required for years in Oregon). Measure 114 was written by progressive liberals in police defunded Portland, to endanger the lives of conservative and rural Oregonians. The cost of Freedom Truly is Eternal Vigilance! Dr. Hull, MD.
OR is starting to circle the 🚽. They passed new state laws: no need to read, write, know basic math, skills to graduate 🎓 High School. Pathetic.
stay safe!
Don't give that much hope. Gun sales went through the roof after the Ferguson riots. Yet not one shot fired a few weeks later in the second riot. Dd they all forget to buy bullets?
There is nothing liberal about those legislators. They are authoritarians.
It’s time for eastern Oregon to join Idaho.
I'm a former Vietnam era soldier. Uncle Sam never gave me that assignment but I associated with many soldiers who fought there. One thing I NEVER EVER heard any one of them say is " I wish I was carrying less ammo" . But many many of them said " I always found a way of carrying a couple of extra mags "
we aren't frontline combat troops
@@primeministersinister625 Yeah, Not right now Mr Sinister. but everyday we get closer and closer to the crap hitting the fan. Best if you get your head out of the sand and read the warning signs, else you will get a BIG unwelcomed surprise and be unprepared.
The socialists/communists/Marxists ( Used to be known as Democrats ) are working VERY hard to cause hardship and division in our country. Can you say trillion $ spending sprees, so that inflation goes thru the roof, putting many many Americans in dire financial straits ? Can you say 'no to excess and unspent Covid money' being spent on hardening our schools, so that shootings keep happening and they can continue to moan and scream for their unconstitutional anti gun restrictions " historical fact that registration always leads to confiscation. Can you say weaponizing federal institutions like the FBI, ATF, the DOJ and many others. Can you say "defund the police" so people are afraid to leave their homes just to go grocery shopping. Can you say "Critical Race Theory" in the effort to persist a racial divide that goes back to the Jim Crow days and ignores all the efforts and accomplishments of our wonderful country to truly eradicate racism from our society.
Wake Up Mister PM !
@@nicks.cozycorner no, I'm just weighing risks.
@@primeministersinister625 what risks are you weighting? You sound like a bud light drinker
@@blakedelgado7174 and you sound like a moron
As a disabled person, I'd also like to point out that swapping magazines is an additional physical task that people like I may not be able to do under stress easily.
I would like to recommend you carry more than one firearm. If your main goes down, and can't easily reload it, drop it and go for your spare. Seriously, Murphy is an SOB.
As the Founding Fathers intended...multiple pistols chambered in .50 cal balls. Right? :-)
@@leojamesclune1730 I prefer 64 caliber, but it doesn't matter. Holes are holes.
This is why you should own a belt-fed rifle; it's almost required by the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), it would seem, that you would have to be offered one. Not that it should be limited to it, but if you had a belt-fed rifle with full-auto, 3-shot burst, and single shot modes, on a mount to hold the weight while allowing you to turn or rotate, you'd be all set. Can we challenge the NFA on the ADA?
In Nam I could change a magazine in my M16 without thinking, it was automatic.
As a retired cop I still carry my .40 cal with 1 in the chamber and a 15rd mag and 2 spare 15 rd mags as my minimum standard EDC. You need to be carrying enough ammo because you never know what you might run into. Stay safe guys!
Thank you for your service Sir . God bless
When is the last time you or any of your fellow officers had to use more than one 15 round magazine?
@@soundped What difference does it make? It only matters when you need the lead my friend.
@@soundped Thankfully while I have been shot at several times during my carrier before I was hurt in the line of duty and forced to retire and I did on numerous occasions have to draw my weapon I was never forced to fire a shot on patrol. This is due to various reasons, once because a crowd of people ran back and forth between me and the shooter as well as behind him as good of a shot as I am it wasn’t safe to return fire. Other times the shooter was inside their home and no clear shot was available. Officers are responsible for every single shot they fire (as they should be) so we must always evaluate the situation and be certain it is safe to return fire or at a bare minimum the risk of doing so is greatly outweighed by the risk to the public the shooter continues to pose. Now that said an Officer using more then a single 15 round magazine is not rare at all. People have this idea from TV & the movies that if you shoot a person they go down, in reality pistol ammunition is not all that deadly. Generally what kills you is going into shock, or blood loss over time if you don’t get treatment. And even if you do score a fatal hit which is much much harder in reality then everyone thinks that person doesn’t go down right away, they continue to pose a threat to everyone around them for several minutes or even longer. I spent most of my carrier in a rural area full of small towns then the last 2 years in a smaller city not like LA , NYC, or CHICAGO but even in that environment I responded to several scenes or was on site with an OIS (Officer involved shooting) in which the Officer had to reload his weapon. I can think of 5-6 that I was somehow involved in personally. Every situation is unique and different so I don’t think anyone can say it happens at (Blank) ratio. The real concern is ending up in a situation where you need the ammo and don’t have it. That is just about as bad as it can get and you are almost certainly going to die at that point. Because again despite what Hollywood tells everyone you are almost always on your own! You can yell for help on the radio and other Officers will desperately try to get to you as fast as we can but your backup maybe as little as 2-3 minutes out (absolutely forever in a gun fight) or as much as 10-15 minutes out. It will all be decided well before then! You must be trained, equipped, and prepared to hold your own until it is over or until help can get there and that can be a very very long time. I don’t like to watch them for obvious reasons but I’m sure if you looked you can find lots of videos on line of OIS’s. Anyway I hope this helps some at least. Take care!
how do you know 46 is enough? Why aren't you carrying 66? or 200?
you really think you're going to engage committed armed attackers and the issue which decides the outcome is the number of rounds you have? You are unarmored. without armor you have precious LITTLE chance of surviving such an encounter
30 years ago I was serving as a deputy sheriff here in Texas. I ended up assisting a trooper who was chasing a stolen truck, whose three occupants had murdered a young couple and a 4:year old boy and 2 year old girl in the act of taking the truck.
They exited the highway onto a dark farm to market road. Eventually they busted the gates and entered an unlit large cemetery. There was one way in and one way out, so we parked the troopers car across the entrance and he got in with me.
In the back of the cemetery we found the truck, they had blown both front tires trying to hop the large curb.
There was no lighting except for what we had, so we felt like targets. We stayed away from our lights as much as possible. I covered as the trooper moved up to clear the vehicle. I thought I saw movement to the left so I moved my focus to that area.. sure enough I saw a flash as the trooper activated his light. I double tapped the muzzle flash and something fell. I was about to ask if the trooper was ok when I saw another flash further right and felt an impact in the car, right beside me. I double tapped that flash as the trooper simultaneously fired two rounds at something I couldn't see, further behind him.
Then it was quiet. We carefully moved up and found all three suspects DRT.
The trooper had fired three rounds earlier in the action, to keep one of the suspects from grabbing a hostage. So a 90 mile chase and two shootouts, he fired 5 shots, resulting in one suspect DRT, and the event ended.
I chased for about 28 miles, fired 4 shots, 2 suspects DRT.
The trooper and I had served together on a SWAT team for 4 years prior to this event. I'm certain that the fact we had served and trained heavily together, and the SWAT training program- which is intense, when done properly, is the reason we were successful in the action , with no wasted resources or injured personnel.
Which shows the incredible importance of training, and PROPER training. You MUST train like you fight. Live fire exercises and scenarios which differ from expectations are a life and death requirement.
Too many departments think one box of ammo to practice with, then another on six month range day, and then the qualification, is more than enough. No structure, limited ammo , poor range equipment all end up creating cops who only THINK they're a good shot. This puts innocent bystanders at risk.
Departments have to allow a budget that will provide officers with the skill set they need to do their job safely and efficiently.
Civilians really need to increase their practice time, and be certain it is valuable practice. Enroll in some of the excellent programs you can find online. It will save your life someday and possibly others.
The training time the two of you did together probably was the biggest asset during that event.
A few of us that frequently worked same shift but dif agency’s. We started training together at least once a month. One of the fellas was a reloader which helped keep the out of pocket expenses manageable. Every thing was out of our own pockets. My jaw hit the floor when you stated one or two boxes of ammo every 6months. That’s so 1990s.
That’s sad.
I appreciate your service Sir
Great story, thanks for sharing it 😎
@@Progen77 I don't know if it was appropriate here and I don't think about it much, but something Mass said made me think of it all of a sudden. You never know how a gunfight is going to go down, but based on my experience, there's no such thing as too many magazines or too much ammo or too much training. If it's there, take advantage of it.
And to that I say... Practice, practice, practice. Peace. "Through superior firepower".
I was a cop in Chicago, I Just pulled the plug, my house is up for sale, when I started we had to buy a 4'' S&W, Colt or Ruger 38 or 357, I picked up a S&W MODEL 586, with 3 speed loaders, now I carry a Walther with 16 9mm rounds in the mag. and more then one magazine. . Feds use to say 7 yards 21 feet was the avg. shoot out ,now they say 40% of shootings are 5 to 8 feet.. I loved that 586 but THINGS CHANGE. Thanks for a great video
As the frequency of body armor being used by criminals increased, my center mass zone drill targets have descended about a foot.
Haha! If you can't hit 'em in the bull, hit 'em in the balls? (Or lower abdomen, whichever stops them).
@@devildog17013 aim for the pelvis. No matter how big/angry/drugged up an attacker is, he won't be able to do much if you explode the head of his femur.
Rounds to the pelvis can be devastating.
@@Mr_Snarky both physically and psychologically.
that's right, you need to hit below the waist. also, the pelvic area has a main artery running down the inside of each leg. unless you are really lucky and you blow his Balls off! :)
Dear Mas, I just had to comment again. Your teachings and advise is spot on. Been following your teachings for 40+ years. As a 33 yr. Police veteran, you have my deep respect🇺🇸
Very well said. Retired LEO in Ca. Fortunately I now reside in Riverside County where the Sheriff issues CCW permits as fast as he can
Took a class from him almost 25 years ago outside of Seattle. Great instructor and amazing shooter.
Thank you for addressing the topic of high capacity magazines. It's a sad day when risks have become so acute as to require so many rounds.
Absolutely!
But it happens. I know of a 2man team who got hung up in a large building full of tiny rooms made of camel shit and went through 9 15 rd. M9 magazines, plus part of a 10th, didn’t miss a single time, either. That was my entire load out and 1/2 my partners pistol mags. Oops, anyway- empty mags through my legs, loaded mags on the right shoulder… REALLY WANTED A Mk 18 at that moment- the 10.3” one … the AF issued GAU 5s- 14.5” XM-177s that had that long as…. It was long… so, that’s how a CCT team gets in deep shit cause sometimes they DO. This was 1991, BTW.
No security element like a ranger stick or a STA
squad. 2 spray painted tan YZ 490s, a laser designator the size the first VXR, 2 M9s, 2 carbines… no SOPMOD, yet… JSOC not SOCCOM. A mess. I can tell you for fact that a couple Mk18s, a couple M9s, some tanker holsters and as many mags as they could find, borrow, purloin - WTF EVER could be ditched- WAS. I’m just a story teller. Fact based fiction.
Truth- NEVER TO MANY MAGS/ to much AMMO.
I'll never forget the look on an F.B.I. agents face (who had survived the Miami shoot out)
when asked if he had any advice to give.
He looked straight into the camera and said....
"carry enough ammunition ".
How much is enough? You decide.
That is the interview that tells it all!!!
Mas is very well known in the Philippines. His thoughts on firearms are being discussed by both old and new firearm enthusiasts until now.
Rounds are like gasoline on a road trip. Rather have more than needed and not run out. And unlike the gasoline in the car, we hope we never ever have to use any rounds at all.
Last thing you want is for your E Car to be out of juice with no charging stations.
I want to buy a pallet of ammo, just to watch UPS have to hump it to the door. You don't get a discount till you buy a 100,000 pallet.
Ive always been convinced that an extra magazine is mandatory, this video eloquently re enforces this.
this is so true, I always carry three extra mags one 15rd and two 17rd magazines plus the mag in my gun which is 15+1 because the one that can lose a gun fight is probably the one who first runs out of bullets. :)
Do you live in a Cartel area ?
@@tobylopez445 no its the one who cant make hits. you wont survive long enough to fire 50 rounds.
“Thanks Massad”..you’re a HUGE credit to not only WC’s program/channel, but a fantastic ‘go-to’ for virtually ALL things firearms..whether legalese info or firearm(s) specifics. Much appreciated!
This guy has DEFINITELY said "only you can prevent forest fires" on a professional level 🧐
(Awesome video by the way)
As I am old school (and old), this is a great video justifying the reasons for carrying more ammo. I love my wheel guns, but feel better now carrying my Glock 19 with 2 extra magazines. Thank you Mas! Also glad I live in a free state (Kansas).
lol,, i live in Ks also,, i carry a weapon that holds a 17 rd mag,, along with it is 2 extra mags and some times i wonder if even THAT is enough
@@davidclark6314 what do think you're going to run into that 1: requires 51 rounds to stop and 2) lets you survive long enough to fire 51 rounds?
@@primeministersinister625 The next LA riot. The next riot anywhere. A group of armed thugs. I'd rather have too many rounds and not need them all than have too few rounds and need more.
@@AlaskaErik uh dont go outside during a riot.
@@primeministersinister625 Sometimes the riot comes to your home.
Oregon resident currently carrying a Walther PPQ M2 9MM (Winter carry) with a standard capacity mag on board with one in the chamber (15+1) and two spare high capacity (17) mags. Hope I never need more than one or two shots, but if I do, I've got 'em 😁 Always been a firm believer that it's better to have something and not need it, than to need something and not have it. Now let's see what happens with ballot measure 114...
Good luck with measure 114. Some legal battles now occurring. From what I saw and heard, every gun in Oregon was probably sold before the Dec.8th deadline. I saw where one dealer required appointments to get in the store. Crime will go up even higher esp. in Portland as I believe the intent is to simply stop all gun sales with the overly involved red tape and gate keeper State Police.
I hear that Salem Oregon around the DOJ building there are several SWAT vehicles and a MRAP, supposedly for several days now. I believe its because two cities just pissed off 90% of the state.
@@coach- I only know of one out of thousands, what where the others?
@@Ovokor pretty much. Lane county and the PDX Metro area. AND, I have spoken to several people, in person and on-line that voted yes on 114 but either didn't read the whole measure or didn't understand the ramifications of it passing.
Criminals with guns definitely carry more than 10 rounds. Anything less these days and you're bringing a knife to a gun fight
Bought a copy of "In the Gravest Extreme" 30 years ago. Just passed it on to my son. Still relevant today. Thank you.
I had a signed copy, loaned it to a student he went PCS and kept it. I resisted the temptation to find him and collect a pound of flesh…
But it still on my list.
@@warlockcommandcenter Just loaned my copy to a neighbor.
Thanks for yet another valuable, timely thought-provoking video. I am so thankful to be living on a small farm in rural NE Oklahoma where I built my own shooting range that is set up for "scenario" training in addition to static paper/steel targets. As a husband, father, grand-father and now a great grand-father it is my responsibility to protect and provide training for my family to be best of my ability. As an old Marine Corps combat veteran, my EDC is a Glock 19 with one in the chamber and "at least" one backup 15 round magazine on my person. An AR15 with five 30-round magazines never leaves my pickup except to be cleaned and exercised on a regular basis.
Your focus becomes your reality.
Your perception becomes your reality.
Mas, I look forward to yours, Bill Wilson's, Ken Hackathorn's, and all the other illustrious Firearms & Tactics trainers videos & training , that has saved countless innocent Civilian & LE lives Worldwide, along with their bank accounts & Freedom. God Bless you Massad F. Ayoob, the E.P. Gail, your daughters C. & J., and your life's work. Stay safe brother, watch your six & stay frosty,phil🇺🇲🙏💙🍀👍
I'd carry a belt fed and a backpack if I could.
And you sir should have the right to do so if that's your choice 👍
I’m in illinois and we are about to go thru more attacks on our second amendment rights. Thank you Mr Ayoob and Mr Wilson for putting these important videos out and educating people properly about why our rights are so important.
Don't forget the purge law going into effect Jan 1st.
I have tried hard to listen to most so called experts because they seem to try to tell me what to do apposed to instructing what to do.This gentleman is more like a old friend who gives excellent advice and you want to hear more.Thank you sir.
Carry two identical guns. 1- Doubles your capacity. 2- Second gun if you have a malfunction, to use as a backup.
3. A gun for a friend.
Wow never thought of that !!! I have that but never thought of it !!
You sir or living legend thank you for everything you do. Thank you for the education.
Logic, wisdom, and decades of objective experience. Thank you, Mr. Ayoob!
Thank you for the no nonsense approach to the realities we all face.
Great info as always. I enjoyed the old copper references very much. In the early 80s I felt comforted with a five shot j frame off duty and as a backup to the then newly introduced S&W 686. One of my former department armorers informed me the 6 shot revolver I was issued and the 38 special plus P ammunition issued with it was sufficient for any threat I may face. We have come so far with better equipment, but sadly we have also developed a need for it. Forty years later, can’t imagine not having a proven semi-auto and at minimum a spare magazine and thats as a mostly retired guy. Thanks for all you do and have done for decent folks and self-defense.
I have kept my steel revolvers, but they are a load to carry, and with 'car loads' of thugs riding around, 10+ shots might be needed. I moved up to a 10+ mag 9mm compact pistol for that very reason. Truly, my guts were telling me to get more defensive fire power, relating to what Mas was saying. As you noted, I carried 18 rounds total in the '70's. One extra mag gives me 21 rounds for EDC with one reload.
I am looking to purchase my first firearm and I've actually been considering a S&W 686 plus. The 7 shot version. .357 Magnum is a powerful round and I love revolvers but I keep wondering as you said if I'm better off getting a higher capacity newer semi auto for self defense.
@@GreekGuru74 Any decent revolver can get the job done. The manual of arms is simpler. Still, I would recommend a medium size 9mm to anyone seeking their first pistol assuming it is for the purpose of self defense. When I say medium size along the lines of a Glock 19, a sig 320 configured to that size range, M&P compact in that range etc. just my humble opinion ymmv. If you get into the game as time goes by lots more directions that work. These will work though in diverse environments for diverse purposes. Everything from a usable house gun to working through training classes that may be of interest. There are a host of others. But you will be able to make it with this approach
Yes, agreed 100%! I’m in California and just had my CCW interview a few weeks ago. 10-round limitation per magazine is ridiculous seeing it restricts the armed civilian’s ability to be well-equipped in any needed defensive scenario. I hear it is currently on the chopping-block to be overthrown in court and that is great news! The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Standard-capacity magazines are in common use throughout most of this wonderful country! Cheers! 😎🇺🇸
Don't put much stock in that talk. The Ninth Circuit is notoriously liberal and anti-gun. Even after the Bruen case, expect the Ninth Circuit to uphold 10 round mags, the handgun roster and possibly even the New York type bill the legislature will pass in January to limit concealed carry to public streets, no parks, stores, buildings etc. In other words, every place in the state that a law abiding person is at risk.
Have at least two or three 10 round magazines and practice reloading quickly.
If you live in a unsafe area you have to move.
@@michaelshaff4095 oh yeah, believe me, I’m aware of the hot-potato game the courts play; especially in California, sending the cases up and down the districts and circuits to stall and delay the rulings. Yep, we all here want the roster, magazine limitation, and AR rifle restrictions like outrages fin-on-grip and featureless requirements dismantled! Will be a time to remember if and when they come to fruition. New York, in my opinion, has it the worst! Government there is pressing hard to make essentially every place a sensitive place to carry. Hope they have luck to eliminate that clause seeing the high-crime rate New York has gone through. 😃🍻
@@pedrobrando4606 agreed! I live in San Diego so it’s not bad, but we do travel at least once per year to national parks, see family, etc. Yep, I carry appendix with a rig holster consisting of gun and spare magazine side-by-side so have the potential to carry 21 rounds at the moment. Will be nice when the mag ban and roster get eliminated being that it is a clear violation of our second amendment right to keep and bear arms in common use. Also, looking into tactical outdoor training to practice fast reloads as you mention. Will be great experience to run and shoot through an obstacle course! 😎👍🏼
Move!
Wisdom dispensed on every Wilson Combat video. Thank you!
Active Self Protection just put up a video of cops taking down a wanted perp. They asked him to put his gun down, he did not. Many shots were fired by the cops. Though downed, the perp survived and was taken into custody. I simply replied "Why 10 rounds aren't enough..."
I will respectfully disagree with Mas on this point, as dangerous as that might be. I have no quarrel with someone who chooses to carry a high capacity firearm and extra magazines, but I'm not so sure they are necessary for most private citizens. I would argue that the moderate capacity small auto with spare magazine is the "sweet spot" for a private citizen in terms of daily carry which is effective and is still compact and light enough for the average Joe to carry daily.
Police engagements and private citizen encounters are fundamentally different. We can lump off-duty encounters with the private citizen incidents. In a uniform police shooting, a criminal has a known trained and armed adversary, and yet he goes ahead with the attack anyway, even knowing that his adversary will have reinforcements on-scene in minutes. These are some of the most desperate of criminals, and the lawman must either force their surrender or kill them. This may well involve a prolonged gunfight.
By contrast, the private citizen is dealing with a different threat, most of the time. Their attacker thinks he is dealing with an unarmed "soft" victim that they only have to ambush and take by surprise, and who has been conditioned to submit rather than fight. The private citizen does not need to subdue the attacker, rather they must only escape. Ideally and typically, one or the other party will have fled the scene before all those rounds in a high capacity auto can be expended. Generally, the protracted gunfight for the private citizen is a fantasy.
So if you already own a lower capacity firearm that you shoot well and will carry faithfully each day, such as a good 5 or 6 shot revolver, or a compact 9mm such as the original Shield or similar, or even a 1911 that you have had for years, don't be afraid to carry that if you want to. Just become adept at reloading it for the very few times you might have to. And keep in mind, no less an authority as Ken Hackathorn from this very channel, steps out every day wearing a 9 shot 1911 and a spare magazine. Bill Wilson carries a 10 round firearm and a spare magazine every day on his ranch. But again, if you feel you really need to go with a high capacity pistol, and you live in a free state, go for it. Just don't feel as if you need to "upgrade" your firearm if you perform well with what you have.
When I first started we were issued S&W revolvers, then Colt 1911’s which everybody liked to S&W model 59’s which nobody liked. Six or seven shots on hand seemed to do the job. A six shot revolver saved my life one night.
I love he channel, and the wisdom it attains.
Absolutely correct, thank you!
I've followed Massad since the early 70s and I have spread his gospel from the east coast to the west coast and back again, he's one of the best firearms instructors in the world.
As a New Hampshirite I am super proud of Mas. Always good advice, no bull.
More rounds are better for sure, but comfrot trumps capacity for me personally, so I normally carry whatever the original mags allow. If I were a cop and/or had a daily job that required me to carry I'd probably rethink all of this, but just a typical guy working a non lethal job in normal circumstances capacity is way down on my list of pros vs cons:)
Thank you you’re absolutely right and we need to be prepared
Well said sir, been taking your advice since ( before) I started as an LEO in the mid 90s! Glad you are still opining on the current issues.
Should send this to every governor and attorney general's of every state and all of Congress .this testimony should be voiced to Congress and all federal and state officials . Thanks for the clear and concise information that government officials refuse to hear . 👍
"There is a quality to quantity."
Thank You Sir.
Man, that guy is such a legend. He's been at this longer than anyone I can think of. This is an opinion you can take to the bank.
Fortunately for me I still live in a free state. I have carried a 1911 for ever as my EDC w/extra mag. I recently acquired an SA-35 9mm, it feels similar to my trusty 1911. Now I am carrying twice the rds and all is well. Still with extra mag.
I have been a 1911 shooter ever since I went through army officers training in 1980. Recently acquired an SA 35. I also have an HK VP9 and a FN FNX .45. Fortunately I live in a free state where we don't need a permit to carry open or concelaled. I do hold a ccw for crossing state lines. Our state is very low crime but with more Californians coming things are changing. I carry occasionally and never packed a spare magazine. Im usualy the paranoid one but I may start packing a spare soon.
Well I still have faith in my 1911 in 45 I carry filled with the Lehigh extreme defense ammo and yes I do carry extra mag the Willson combat 10rd down here in New ORLEANS
I bought a stripped Para Ordnance P14-45 frame and gave it to my gunsmith alongside a bunch of other parts to basically “convert” my 1911 into a double stack.
I got the 1911 ergonomics that I like, still chambered in .45ACP, but now with a 15+1 flush fit magazine and 18+1 extended mags.
Great PSA. Thanks Massad!
Well spoken I appreciate your no nonsense approach with spot on accurate advice for today's concealed carry civilian
Words of wisdom from a true master. Thank’s Massad
That you for another thoughtful and informative video. I've been practicing failure to stop drills every range trip for a coupe of years now, and never leave home without at least one spare magazine; for two of my EDC options I carry two spares.
Thanks, Mas. A good update for us old guys. Of course, we must make sure that all those rounds we do fire hit what they need to hit. More misses don't help anyone.
Reasoned and right. Another hugely informative video from Wilson C. and Massad Ayoob.
Having been educated on firearms and their safe handling, I can safely say that your videos are informative and well spoken.👍 You are helping educate many who never had the benefits of having someone explain some of the nuances of firearms safety. 🇺🇸👍🇺🇸
Another great video ! Thank you very much for the great content !
Glad you enjoyed it!
Wish I could afford one! That is sweet!
Been reading your articles since I was in my teens. I have now been retired from a large LEA for ten years. Started as an officer, retired as an administrator. Didn’t strive to promote it just kind of happened. I continue too value your knowledge and experience today.
Thank you sir!
God bless!
Been reading and listening to Massad since the 80's. Got his Concealed Carry book and learned a lot more than I already knew. Confirmed a lot that I knew too. BTW 2 extra mags for my 19X
Thankyou for all your advice.
I usually carry my 1911 and three 8 round magazines. Should cover most situations. I hope... I do have a new Walther PDP compact 5 that I am getting to like more and more. Thanks for the videos. Always informative and thought provoking. Happy Holidays.
Massad Mayoob has lots of nuggets of wisdom, with the slight occasion of some random coal. This was an absolite gem. The only bad thing about this was it came out 3 days too late for an Oregon measure 114 case ruled by an anti-gun judge which leaned heavily on why 114 should stay.
Thank you,
That's why I'm glad I bought the 8 shot Taurus 1911 because thanks to you I have been watching these videos and learning more and more And I have an update on every state's gun laws and what's required and what's not required Thanks to you.
I just moved from New Jersey to Virginia . In New Jersey we had a 10 round mag limit putting home owners at a distinct disadvantage when facing multiple intruders.
If I get in a gunfight I don't want a high capacity magazine. I want the movie magazine that never runs out! If I'm defending my home just build a pipeline from the ammo Factory to my gun and send me everything!
Since way back in 70's & reading 'In the Gravest Extreme'....Mas continues to give us Pearl's of Wisdom!! I do NOT have a single example....but MANY!! MY THANKS!!
Dave C: Colorado
Love your wisdom
Thank you sir for your excellent perspective on the unfortunate progression of violent crime in the United States over the past 40 plus years. I started my law enforcement career in 1975 and agree with everything you stated. Fortunately, many Americans have decided to carry now and I'm very glad they have. Notwithstanding the issues of what type of firearm should be carried and the number of rounds, at least people they have decided to be armed and (hopefully) not be a victim. Please keep your videos coming. They help us all. Respectfully, Greg
As Rudyard Kipling said: "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"
There is an old saying that the only time you can have too much ammunition is if you are drowning or on fire.
More words of wisdom from Mas. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for listening
Thank you for your thoughts and wisdom Mr. Ayoob.
Mas,Good to hear you still giving advice. I was 19 back in 83 when I read your book,I’m 58 now😂
Rock on!
I carry a 4” Colt Python, and a 2” Colt King Cobra. I also carry speedloaders. I regularly practice at 25 yards. I don’t live in a high crime area, and I don’t travel to find them.
The choice of the old and crusty
@@9mmpeter255 Ignorant remark. He may know something about his carry requirements and choices than you do.
@@williamryan9195 that sentence was ignorant. Seems you left out a word
@@9mmpeter255 Kyle Rittenhouse killed two men, and injured another with four rounds fired. Let that sink in. 😉
@@9mmpeter255 I think I got it right friend. I think you understood it.
Thank you, sir!
I always like a man with opinions if he's earned the right to have 'em. Thanks, Mas.
Thanks so much. I don't like the fact that we need to carry more ammo but the fact is we do. I always carry a spare mag with an additional 13 rounds for my Shield Plus and it's simply a good habit to have. Again, times change and I appreciate your sound advice.
I would carry at least two or three mags, you just never know? and it would be terribly lousy to wish you had more ammo instead of saying wow I had enough!
I keep a mag of AP, AP, HP series, a mag of HP, AP, HP series, a mag of hot loaded AP. If i'm down to that the other ammo wasn't cutting it. Two AP for car windshield, followed by HP for drivers head works for me when practicing.
The hot AP after DC Navel Yard shooting. Only safe fire position is floor below shooting through the ceiling into killer on floor above covering your exit..
@@robertsmith2956 Wow, you need a L.A.W. and some frags and possibly a do yourself in vest just in case. Obviously a bit of dark humor on your part. Let's pray it is.
@@robertsmith2956 you should seek some professional training.
@@billhoppe2991 My AA gun will do just as well horizontally like a LAW, and have a better range. I have something better than frags.
You have to do it yourself, they don't make kevlar carbon fiber laminates.
Different guns, and different ammo for different jobs.
You don't need to outrun popo radio as long as you outgun any dumb enough to listen to it.
The 2nd Amendment was written to protect yourself FROM the government.
As clinton said, I am an army of one.
10 rounds is so arbitrary and an absolute infringement.
It's by inches that you get pushed off a cliff.
How many tens of millions have been murdered by their own governments after they've been made defenseless?
Over 200 million in the 20th century alone.
Tyrants agree, gun control works great for them; because they keep their guns!
Or worse yet 5 rounds or even "the ability to accept a magazine holding more than 5 rounds." That's what's going on in Canada. Hold on to your 2A.
This man is a living legend!!
Thanks Mass, been following you for many years, carry on.
Interesting topic. This is the reason I went from a 8+1 to 1 15+1 and now carry a minimum of a 17 round spare mag... usually two.
Do you think it's not just revolvers that Are facing the reality of the fronts of multiple Attackers armed with the ever increasing amount of double stack pistols and rifles? Is Mr. Ayoob also referring to single stack 6, 7 and 8 shot pistols like Kahr firearms or S&w Shield, Specifically civilians or guards who don't carry an extra mag?
💥😎69 Rounds is Best!👍🇺🇸
Thank you. I appreciate your work.
Thank you for another highly informative video presentation.
Excellent points by a legend! I don’t like calling them “high-capacity” magazines. A Glock 19 magazine has a STANDARD or REGULAR capacity of 15.
That’s because Glock set the standard
I don't want to sound like a jerk, but if you asked a car dealer for a comparison of the fuel efficiency of a Toyota Camry hybrid and a Charger with a HEMI engine and he replied, "They both have _standard_ and _regular_ efficiency." I don't think you would be pleased with that answer.
On point, professionally presented as we have come to expect from one of best experts in the business. Well done sir. Your expetience and wealth of knowledge is invaluable and much appreciated.
Much appreciated!
Thank you
Thank you for this very important information! Real life experience is the best knowledge to have, and many us do not have your expertise.
As many as I want, as far as the law is concerned.
Thanks Mas. My primary carry gun is still my large heavy six shot revolver. It size and weight necessitate (IMO) a shoulder holster. My draw even though frequently practiced with laser cartridges and the Mantis app is glacial compared to even my very small auto in an appendix holster. Sometimes it is just hard for us older shooters to give up our old favorites that have brought us much comfort in the past. Seeing you here, is lighting a fire under me to change with the times.
I grew up with revolvers. I don't carry a revolver anymore. It's never too late to change unless you've fired those five or six rounds in that revolver while the bad guy has a 17 round magazine Glock 17 and lots of rounds left.
@@AlaskaErik Thanks. I have carried four different autos over the last 35 years or so, so it is not that I don't have experience with or interest in them (my first edc was a 6906 back around '88). It is mostly that civilian on civilian gun fights are as rare as whale feathers where I live and from watching sources like ASP it sure looks like vanishingly few civilian gun uses are require more than 6 shots. Of course, it is a risk to not have shots 7-21, but after much study and contemplation I suspect that it is less than getting hit by lightning.
Enough. For me to decide thank you very much
Good points Mr. Ayoob. Always spot on!
I remember a video my agency showed us when I was in the academy-a drunk guy decided he wasn’t going to be arrested and started withdrawing a .30Carbine from a toolbox in the bed of his truck-the Trooper fires 16 rounds at him all but two hit their mark,and when he ran dry, he reloaded and shot him in the melon.I knew right then I would never underestimate a suspect ever.
That was Officer Kyle Dinkheller with the Laurens County Sheriff's office. I was a Georgia officer then and that shooting happened a year after I came on. When the story of that shooting came out, I remember our agency training officer turning it up as far as our tactics and weapons were concerned. This was such a bad and horrific incident.
I have an old book called Street Survival. It shows a picture of a guy who got shot 33 times with a 9mm before he stopped.
@@c.r.chandler5905 That’s right!I remember it like it was yesterday-that video was shown to us as Trooper candidates in the academy-this was in 99.Do you remember what year that OIS happened?
@@irishdefense77 ruclips.net/video/8czRmHpqwGw/видео.html
Very informative video. Sometime, could Mas do a video on different bullet grains in 9mm and .45acp, and their advantages/disadvantages for defensive applications? Its something I think about especially during winter when people and animals put on more layers. Thanks!
After many years of reading reviews, I find that the 124 grain 9 mm is The Sweet Spot. Heavier than the 115. Better velocity than the 147.
Great advice!