@@shahalamgaming2305 I think you have 0 clue how F1 works and gets fucked over every year by FIA. I guess it's easy to pretend being a total genius behind a keyboard. Get lost buddy.
That’s because quite simply the FIA is corrupt that’s why there called Ferrari international assistance because unless Ferrari invents it it gets banned
Hindsight is 20/20, but banning all electronic aids for 1994 was the worst decision the FIA has made. The cars were all designed with aids in mind already, so they were unstable without them. Senna said 94 would be a season full of accidents, and we know what ended up happening. If the FIA had banned all aids for 95 instead of 94, the teams would've had time to design cars around the regulations instead of adapting existing designs to them. Then again, would the safety measures that kicked in from '95 onwards have been put into action without the events of '94?
an accident like Senna's was gonna happen at some point, it just happened to be with Senna. A necessary tragedy, unfortunately. But the safety improvements that the FIA implemented probably saved countless drivers from injury or death
some of them incur a huge amount of money to make and if allowed other teams just can't be competitive once the tops team have that expensive system. The innovations are great but the racing will become even more uneven
The third pedal for rear brake control was so neat, reminds me of using the rear brake on motorcycle to tighten your line a bit; for those who've never ridden a motorcycle, you actually use both brakes independently on most motorcycles.
Das was banned for 2021 before Mercedes even showed off the feature. Article 10.15 of the 2021 regulations stated "the re-alignment of the steered wheels, as defined by the position of the inboard attachment of the relevant suspensions members that remain a fixed distance from eachother, must be uniquely defined by a monotonic function of the rotational position of a single steering wheel". Stop saying the FIA banned it for 2021 but not 2020. A system like DAS was always going to be banned for 2021, weather or not a team developed it.
No, Mercedes was able to make it within the rules, the FIA can´t just ban it out of the blue if it´s legal, especially after the team consulted to know if what they were planning to do was within the rules. So they can´t just ban something they said it was considered legal before. They can only ban it the year after (and it´s usually to avoid other teams spending money in it) or this year if it was dangerous to the driver or other cars. It´s not, so it´s legal and safe.
@@The_Curious_Cat The reason the FIA banned it was because Ferrari and Red Bull had a massive issue with Mercedes gaining yet another advantage. The FIA succumbed to the pressure of 2 of the most powerful teams in the sport right now instead of just telling them that DAS is legal. Honestly it was pathetic.
@@The_Curious_Cat Correction. They shouldn't ban it out of the blue if it's legal. They absolutely can, as there is absolutely nothing illegal about engines modes and they banned those mid season. But yes, generally the rule is that if a part is illegal, its illegal already and the team is punished for using it. If its dangerous but legal, its banned immediately but the team is not banned for using it. Its its legal and they dont like it (usually because either a) its super expensive to develop and every team would have to develop it or b) its a fudge, and its clearly should not be legal but technically is)
Unfortunately it would cost a lot of money if each team had to build the same systems to keep being competitive and it is often the teams that have more money that can build innovative systems
@@michOLjack69 I think the last real innovation that teams were also able to copy was the exhaust blown diffuser. It was also "more affordable" compared to DAS. DAS is complex as it makes the steering system design rather unorthodox. The Exhaust Blown Diffuser however, you "just" need to play around with the aero and the redirect the exhaust system to do the job. Everyone was also able to create their own engine mapping with regards to off-throttle diffuser blowing (yes, a reminder of those interesting V8 sounds as well from 2011).
I know merc will obviously deal with it and be dominant again- but I wanna know how much a ban on DAS will affect the geometry of the front suspension. Especially since the front wing is designed with the suspension configuration in mind. Then everything behind the front suspension is designed to deal with it’s wake. It has to be basically a new car. Then, how’s that gonna affect their awesome rear suspension, for which, the DAS was really just a red herring.
I actually don't think it will make much difference to the geometry. What I think the problem will be is weight. The DAS steering is quite a bit heavier than a normal steering set up, and removing it may have quite the effect on front end responsiveness, especially in low speed corners.
It seems so tricky to keep everything balanced and fair. It punishes teams that innovate, all that R&D for only one year and then it's banned. How does a sport move forward in this case?
They probably noticed it, and either assumed it was a clutch pedal, or maybe they knew what it was but had no reason to reveal it because it didn’t break any rules in their eyes. When the other teams found out and applied pressure onto the FIA, they they moved to outlaw it because of that pressure.
@@Ren_1090 Its pretty much the later I believe. The FIA is privy to nearly all the teams "secret" tech, but is bound to not disclose that information as its confidential intellectual property. For example, the FIA knew that Racing Point were straight up copying the 2019 Merc long before the rest of the grid did. They came in, checked it and signed it all off.
Imagine the mind (s) that can design and fabricate a system that couldn't have even been fathomed by the people writing the rules. Fabulous engineering! 👍🏁👍🏁
DAS wasn't particuallarly banned, it just was outlawed post-2020 even before Mercedes introduced it. In the 2020 regs, there was no part of "A steering wheel may only move left or right".
Actually it was banned after other teams started to copy it, specifically Minadi who ran a version in testing. It's one thing when drivers like Mika and DC have it, but it was decided the pay drivers at Minadi having a spin control wasn't that good an idea. This was same reason the concept had been banned in sports cars. Ferrari used it in the 70s but once it trickled down to some of the gentlemen drivers at Le Mans it became a bad idea. That said the Iveco busses the FIA use to transport people to and from the track, when they are allowed, use a version of that system.
I understand people being frustrated that a lot of innovative ideas get banned, but necessity is the mother of invention, as they say. Imagine that you’d built and refined a car design over the course of say, 10 years, by the end, the new ideas would be less groundbreaking than at the start of development and things may appear to stagnate form the outside as no noticeable changes take place. Then imagine the FIA changes the regs so that you will need a whole new car and design philosophy, now you’ve been forced out of the box that you built for yourself over the last ten years. As an analogy: would we have fairly advanced prosthetics if not for people losing limbs? Probably not, obviously losing a perfectly good arm is a bad thing, but you’ve now got an even better robot arm; which sounds like a good thing to me.
Well no because the teams dont exist in a vacuum. Innovation is pushed by the competition between teams, not the competition between the teams and the governing body. That's like saying we should change the rules of football every few years to stop tactics from stagnating. F1 existed for years without anywhere near the level of regulation it has today, and there was never an example of stagnation. I mean the current Mercedes dominance is pretty close to the worst in the sports history, so even if the theory worked on paper (which it doesn't), it clearly isn't working in practice.
That being said I do think the FIA gets treated far too harshly. Almost everything they ban or regulate is about safety. They have successfully turned formula one from a borderline suicide pact into a relatively safe form or motorsport and I respect the hell out of that.
Bailey Jones The teams not being in a vacuum is exactly why I feel that way though, if one team is clearly dominating the field ( mercedes ), the other team either have to somehow make a faster car that doesn’t break the current regs ( which may not be possible ), copy the best car ( racing point ) or just settle for being slower. This would be very bad for the teams with less finances as the better funded will almost always make breakthroughs first as they can throw money at the problem. At least if they change the rules when a team is becoming too dominant, they give smaller teams a chance to find their own solutions. If the teams had nothing but safety regs to keep in mind then there would effectively be no competition anymore because the bigger teams would become untouchable. It’s a bit weird too how most of the fans agree that a Mercedes 1,2 every race is boring; but also are complaining that they are trying to shake things up a bit to knock Mercedes down a peg or two. The regs keep the sport competitive by levelling the playing field when required. Isn’t also more exciting to see how different the cars look after a big overhaul, as well as seeing how the teams have approached the design as opposed to seeing the same cars in the same positions year in year out?
@@kyranbatterbee4915 I'm very confused by what you just said. You basically used Mercedes dominance as an example of regulations working? I also fundamentally disagree with the idea that money can buy innovation. It cant. William's is a good example. They have never been a high budget team and have always had management problems even in their heyday, but they were competitive because their engineers consistently thought outside the box. Now that they aren't able to do that and are basically stuck with the same cookie cutter car as everyone else, the focus switches from innovation to polishing the design the fia provides. Same with lotus, they were maybe the most influential team in f1 history dispite never ever being a well run or high budget team.
"Innovate...but not too much!" Ridiculous. Give every team the same car or give them the same budget with no restrictions other than general car dimensions.
ツAtlas46 That's just a detail. Sure specify some crash safety requirements. The main point is if they want a V12, go for it. If they want an electric motor go for it. If they want more downforce, fine. Special breaking or steering fine. Let them innovate! It's as though dramatic innovation is not welcome but the same endpoint reached over a long period of smaller incremental innovations would be accepted which is silly.
It's a shame the majority of things have been banned and quite understanding that but how's about letting some banned items to be sneaked into the rules in a vague writing of a rule and let things go from there.
I think the mistake benetton made with their design is that they tried to add that to a car that was already optimized to steer according to the grip it has. When they used it and the car was oversteery, they should have maybe used an aero package that went for less downforce. This would mean that they are faster on the straights due to less drag, and the car would otherwise be understeery. This way they achieve the steering angle and grip that they originally had, but enjoy faster speed on the straights. This is assuming though that the system was good enough to be implemented. Obviously I don't know for sure.
I kinda disagree I believe because they ban everything makes the teams innovate cool ways to make a car faster. The reason I came to this video is when I saw the rules someone said two years ago about them allowed "only two wheels to be electronically controlled" Then I thought "hmm" I wonder if anyone's tried rear wheel steering seems like the oldest trick in the book and what do you know. That mclaren one was the coolest.
People saying that banning innovation is bad have got this all wrong. The pressure the regulations place engineers under is precisely what necessitates innovation in the first place. If previous advancements hadn't have been banned, new advancements would never need to be developed. F1 designers are constantly innovating as a consequence of the rules, finding more and more ways to squeeze out performance in every way they can. And banning an advancement doesn't mean that that new technology disappears. F1 would probably just stagnate without the rules, as the hard limit of what a drivers body can endure would quickly be reached. Instead we have a Motorsport that constantly churns out new discoveries and innovations, because it needs to.
Not steering and not a pendulum It was a part of the suspension, a tuned mass damper, which makes the car more stable and less sensitibe to vibrations on kerbs and such
I never understand why the FIA gets scared of innovation ? If it works, it's safe & it can be used by all the teams then why "BAN IT!!!!" ? Should we ban turbos, power steering, sequential semi automatic gearboxes, fuel injection & everything else that improves the cars ?
The safety of the innovations is always debatable, and for other teams to implement something they need to spend ridiculous ammounts of money in R&D, even if they have to "copy" (reverse engineer) something, it's very expensive.
yea well I'm glad they are returning to ground effect now. Hopefully soon, they'll return to smaller, narrower, shorter wheelbase, lighter cars too. Hope they allow front wings like FE (I say that because the front tire wake is real). Hope they allow more reliability-related sensors and tire-wear monitoring sensors. Hope they allow brake steer for front tires, more dynamic settings for differentials. Maybe blown and/or double diffusers. That'd allow a wider variety of driving styles to succeed in the sport and we'd see different drivers winning on different tracks. Plus all those technologies can be vastly improved and who knows how that could enhance normal cars and normal vehicles.
Maybe this is why the reason F1 losing fans every year, there's no fun and entertainment if every car made "too equal" or maybe F1 is just a rotating advertisements rather than being a real racing.
Isn’t it kind of strange that the FIA would say it’s ok to build DAS, in secret consultations with Mercedes, and then move to banner as soon as It becomes public, but still allow use in the remainder of the season? Am I missing something?
It’s just a slap on the wrist like “oh you got us there” Since it was legal according to the rules, though perhaps not in the spirit of them, the FIA wouldn’t want to discourage innovation by immediately banning it. To avoid other teams perhaps going through a phase of costly development, they banned it for next year, though. The FIA having been consulted every step along the way of the design of DAS by Mercedes probably helped them as well, since then the FIA weren’t blindsided by it at testing.
FIAs incompetence is Mercedes win. But it does sound weird that a governing body would give you parameters to use a device they wouldn't otherwise approve. I wonder if Ferraris God PU of last year could've been legal if they'd have asked the FIA how to circumvent the rules.
It's a tough commercial problem the FIA faces, let designers go nuts and within a few years there'd be no more than four or five teams in the game and most races would be processions. That wouldn't go well with audiences
why cant' FIA allow unlimited innovation in f1 car. we might see more competitive race. mercedes come with das system and maybe there are other team that come with other innovations. sounds great to me
If they allowed every innovation the richest teams would sale away more and more every year, but stuff like McLarens third pedal is ingenious and relatively straightforward to incorporate into a car so probably shouldn’t have been banned imo
One wheel brake is something tractors have. They have 2 seperate pedals for both rear left and rear right, but normally they are attached together. Obviously nothing for F1, but still interesting.
There should be a committee which should be chaired 1/3 rd by vetted team representatives, 1/3 rd by vetted car mechanics and engineers, 1/3 rd by FIA stewards. This committee will review the appeals of FIA to ban innovations of teams. This will be a fair and swift tool for F1, also will remove the dogmatic monopoly of FIA politics in the sport which will empower team’s innovations and give them more sense if control.
The banning of everything is what makes F1 hard to really enjoy for me. I'm always left wondering what if. I just got into the sport last year and already I'm just tired of the FIAs constant meddling.
People don't get that if something is banned is either: Not safe Not fair Breaks rules Exploits regulation that will be updated Not a good image The fia was lobbied It's not just a game of the hell with rules, did that in the 80's a people got hurt or worse
People complaining that the FIA bans innovations. Remember they are professionals better than us, they have a crap tone of experience. Most of the time is a clear safety issue. Or the F1 teams getting unfair advantage, because other teams can't innovative in time and it cost a lot of money. Those one of the reasons I know, there are so many more.
My biggest problem with F1 is the crybaby teams. The FIA already takes all the fun out of exploring the grey areas of the rule book and pretty much ALL the creative freedom designers have on car designs and liveries. I want to see more innovations from engineers and teams to gain a competitive edge not have a monster of a team like Mercedes cry like little girls when a competitor gains a 10th of a second on a flying lap. Max and Redbull winning the championship this past year was one of the best changes to see in the sport.
Yes it is, but it's adjusted on the steering rack. To adjust toe on a normal car or a kart, you just screw the steering tie rod ends in or out. I don't see why it would be any different on an f1 car. I also drew up a concept to put DAS on a kart... it's actually not that difficult ae
So the FIA basically helped Mercedes circumvent the regulations by giving them a means to using technology they would've otherwise not been allowed to use. So...by that logic the Ferrari god power unit would've been legal if the FIA had told them how to implement it...nice.
No, the FIA didn't help Mercedes. The FIA is open to any team seeking assistance with the legality of anything they plan on developing. That's one of the main reasons Racing Point has a problem: they didn't ask the FIA about their rear brake ducts. If they did, the FIA said that they would have help them implementing the design. The FIA just said to Merc:Oh you want to make this? It can't be like that because of that, that and that. Merc: can we do this, this and this? FIA: yes, even though we think is impossible, BTW it's gonna be banned next season Merc: no problem
Someone PLEASE explain to me if there's any legitimate reason behind banning active suspension in F1???? Imagine how much MORE fun F1 would be if the cars had moved past the technology of late 80's/early 90's !
"It was too expensive" 30 years had passed. I'd be very surprised if the technology hadn't become affordable to pretty much everyone. Especially when it comes to computing...
Here’s a thought... let F1 be F1... done! Stop squashing everything they invent and let them make radical cars that work, there’s an idea! Or just call it Spec F1 and they can all run the same equipment, oh wait there’s already many racing series like that.
F1 is getting ridiculous. It’s supposed to be the cutting edge of motor car engineering and yet your average VW golf has a more advanced electronic package. Traction control, anti lock brakes, radar cruise control and vector braking to name but a few. In the late 80s and 90s Mitsubishi’s and Honda had road going cars with 4ws. They should reduce the regulations and let the designers loose to find new ways of creating faster lap times instead of spend millions of dollars shaving tenths off in a wind tunnel.
typical politics, ban the few things that are actually innovative... then again, they banned the ground effect long ago and it's only now that they decided to accept its gains, let's hope DAS make a comeback as well
Bonjour à tous, le FIA a banni les systèmes de direction en f1 innovants fin 2020 et vive le règlementation technique en 2022 des F1. Merci cordialement, Johan.
I have an idea since everything gets banned. Let's have all the cars with the same shape and technology from the 90s era and every car has to have the same shape, problem solved and just stop R&D at all
But banning ideas drives more r&d than not and every car has a different shape for this exact reason, if nothing was ever banned; then the best ideas would have been simply refined over the years and every car would have to be the same to keep up.
@@kyranbatterbee4915 sorry my point was let's just go to a more basic era, give same vehicles to everyone (like formula e or indi car), stop r&d at all and let's just define races by actual driver skills than having electronic and aero aids
Don't worry. FiA will ban steering altogether. All because it is too costly for teams to invest it. As Steering is such a terrible innovation. Who needs corners?
Everyone, and i mean everyone, absolutely HATES the FIA banning every new innovation that finds it's way into the sport. Why do the FIA even exist when all they do is make the sport more boring. FIA is the ones that should be banned instead.
@@HMCarReviews Juan Pablo Montoya is the best driver Williams had since Senna. JPM or Hill. I think JPM was faster anyways. Williams had the best car in 2003.
When the Mercedes haters recognize that the fact the DAS isn’t only one innovation what banned after one year: 👁👄👁 (I know, my english is bad as hell, I’m hungarian)
Language connected to propaganda is amazing but that’s life unfortunately. The words are very simple people Mercedes CHEATED 😘 with that das system enjoy that dirty title you won
3:02 and 4:28 Can you please stop putting cringey shit like this in your videos. It's not funny, quirky, fresh, cute, or whatever it is you're going for. It's just cringe. (Also Jake get yourself off this sinking ship and over to the Race, they need you over there!).
RB is soooo butt hurt. They wreck young drivers by encouraging idiotic overtaking to compensate for their unstable chassis designs. Madd Maxx is destined for the wall if he doesn't get traded.
It's good to see Mercedes agreeing to banning DAS. Other teams that innovated something would be appealing like crazy. This is basically like saying "Our car is so perfectly tuned and designed, you can ban it, but you won't stop our dominance!".
The FIA want cars to be faster, more efficient and more technologically advanced ... and then ban everything that works towards that.
Clearly u know nothing about engineering , and just copy others opinion ,
@@shahalamgaming2305 He at least knows more than you
@@shahalamgaming2305 I think you have 0 clue how F1 works and gets fucked over every year by FIA. I guess it's easy to pretend being a total genius behind a keyboard. Get lost buddy.
That’s because quite simply the FIA is corrupt that’s why there called Ferrari international assistance because unless Ferrari invents it it gets banned
to that i have to say 2022
Hindsight is 20/20, but banning all electronic aids for 1994 was the worst decision the FIA has made. The cars were all designed with aids in mind already, so they were unstable without them. Senna said 94 would be a season full of accidents, and we know what ended up happening. If the FIA had banned all aids for 95 instead of 94, the teams would've had time to design cars around the regulations instead of adapting existing designs to them. Then again, would the safety measures that kicked in from '95 onwards have been put into action without the events of '94?
an accident like Senna's was gonna happen at some point, it just happened to be with Senna. A necessary tragedy, unfortunately. But the safety improvements that the FIA implemented probably saved countless drivers from injury or death
@@midnmusic2217 also probably in part because it was Senna. Had it been just Ratzenberger much less would have probably been done.
rexmedorum unfortunately your probably right
Why are most innovative ideas banned? If all innovations are banned then how can you be called the pinnacle of motor sport?
That's Max Mosley for you.
some of them incur a huge amount of money to make and if allowed other teams just can't be competitive once the tops team have that expensive system. The innovations are great but the racing will become even more uneven
you're new here aren't you?
JameshyB46 you’re
@@oetie thank you for the correction
Imagine a car with all banned systems included. Wonder how it would perform against modern F1 cars..
Honestly it would be incredibly dangerous and expensive, an absolute Frankenstein's Monster of pure speed
It would leave them in the dust.
@@tacomeme429 yes, but how cool would it be
it Will create grub B racing car
The third pedal for rear brake control was so neat, reminds me of using the rear brake on motorcycle to tighten your line a bit; for those who've never ridden a motorcycle, you actually use both brakes independently on most motorcycles.
F1 should be about innovation, instead it is more politricks.
ah yes, politicks my favourite thing to talk about
What pedal typos are you going to peddle? :P
You'd think they'd know how to spell that! 🤦
They have a few stashed away in the pedal file.
Jesus! Worst. Typo. Ever.
Once more an awesome video. Many thanks Autosport.
I laugh every time some brings up how DAS is legal for this year only. FIA miss managed this one and they know it.
Das was banned for 2021 before Mercedes even showed off the feature. Article 10.15 of the 2021 regulations stated "the re-alignment of the steered wheels, as defined by the position of the inboard attachment of the relevant suspensions members that remain a fixed distance from eachother, must be uniquely defined by a monotonic function of the rotational position of a single steering wheel".
Stop saying the FIA banned it for 2021 but not 2020. A system like DAS was always going to be banned for 2021, weather or not a team developed it.
No, Mercedes was able to make it within the rules, the FIA can´t just ban it out of the blue if it´s legal, especially after the team consulted to know if what they were planning to do was within the rules. So they can´t just ban something they said it was considered legal before. They can only ban it the year after (and it´s usually to avoid other teams spending money in it) or this year if it was dangerous to the driver or other cars. It´s not, so it´s legal and safe.
@@The_Curious_Cat The reason the FIA banned it was because Ferrari and Red Bull had a massive issue with Mercedes gaining yet another advantage. The FIA succumbed to the pressure of 2 of the most powerful teams in the sport right now instead of just telling them that DAS is legal. Honestly it was pathetic.
@@The_Curious_Cat Correction. They shouldn't ban it out of the blue if it's legal. They absolutely can, as there is absolutely nothing illegal about engines modes and they banned those mid season.
But yes, generally the rule is that if a part is illegal, its illegal already and the team is punished for using it. If its dangerous but legal, its banned immediately but the team is not banned for using it. Its its legal and they dont like it (usually because either a) its super expensive to develop and every team would have to develop it or b) its a fudge, and its clearly should not be legal but technically is)
Who else thinks its a bit weird that FOM bans everything innovative?
Not me
its to try to keep the racing competitive/interesting
Unfortunately it would cost a lot of money if each team had to build the same systems to keep being competitive and it is often the teams that have more money that can build innovative systems
@@michOLjack69 Then give everybody the same cheap car... F1 should be about innovation though.
@@michOLjack69 I think the last real innovation that teams were also able to copy was the exhaust blown diffuser. It was also "more affordable" compared to DAS. DAS is complex as it makes the steering system design rather unorthodox. The Exhaust Blown Diffuser however, you "just" need to play around with the aero and the redirect the exhaust system to do the job. Everyone was also able to create their own engine mapping with regards to off-throttle diffuser blowing (yes, a reminder of those interesting V8 sounds as well from 2011).
I know merc will obviously deal with it and be dominant again- but I wanna know how much a ban on DAS will affect the geometry of the front suspension. Especially since the front wing is designed with the suspension configuration in mind. Then everything behind the front suspension is designed to deal with it’s wake. It has to be basically a new car. Then, how’s that gonna affect their awesome rear suspension, for which, the DAS was really just a red herring.
I actually don't think it will make much difference to the geometry. What I think the problem will be is weight. The DAS steering is quite a bit heavier than a normal steering set up, and removing it may have quite the effect on front end responsiveness, especially in low speed corners.
It seems so tricky to keep everything balanced and fair. It punishes teams that innovate, all that R&D for only one year and then it's banned. How does a sport move forward in this case?
Fia really likes banning
I think F1 banning basically everything is dumb. It's not really the "ultimate racing sport" if basically every innovation is banned.
Exactly. It’s ridiculous. Just have a pay limit and don’t ban anything
One thing I've always wondered. How did the FIA themselves not notice the extra pedal in the Mclaren? Was scrutineering a bit laxer in the late 90s?
They probably noticed it, and either assumed it was a clutch pedal, or maybe they knew what it was but had no reason to reveal it because it didn’t break any rules in their eyes.
When the other teams found out and applied pressure onto the FIA, they they moved to outlaw it because of that pressure.
@@Ren_1090 That makes sense. Thanks for the reply.
@@Ren_1090 Its pretty much the later I believe. The FIA is privy to nearly all the teams "secret" tech, but is bound to not disclose that information as its confidential intellectual property.
For example, the FIA knew that Racing Point were straight up copying the 2019 Merc long before the rest of the grid did. They came in, checked it and signed it all off.
Next on banned engine modes
Imagine the mind (s) that can design and fabricate a system that couldn't have even been fathomed by the people writing the rules. Fabulous engineering!
👍🏁👍🏁
I still can't believe how many advances has been banned, it's like the FIA doesn't want anyone to do anything new
"Peddle"? Come on Autosport.
😂 Right?
Honda's front diff to avoid inside tire lock up on turn in.
Where Can i find some more info on that? Sounds quite brilliant
Engineers: let's be creative and make the cars faster.
FIA: hey stop right there buddy I think I'm going to ban this
DAS wasn't particuallarly banned, it just was outlawed post-2020 even before Mercedes introduced it. In the 2020 regs, there was no part of "A steering wheel may only move left or right".
The rest of the grid: Ban McLaren's brake steering system! It will trigger an unaffordable spending war!
McLaren: We did this with £50 of spare parts.
Actually it was banned after other teams started to copy it, specifically Minadi who ran a version in testing. It's one thing when drivers like Mika and DC have it, but it was decided the pay drivers at Minadi having a spin control wasn't that good an idea.
This was same reason the concept had been banned in sports cars. Ferrari used it in the 70s but once it trickled down to some of the gentlemen drivers at Le Mans it became a bad idea.
That said the Iveco busses the FIA use to transport people to and from the track, when they are allowed, use a version of that system.
I understand people being frustrated that a lot of innovative ideas get banned, but necessity is the mother of invention, as they say. Imagine that you’d built and refined a car design over the course of say, 10 years, by the end, the new ideas would be less groundbreaking than at the start of development and things may appear to stagnate form the outside as no noticeable changes take place. Then imagine the FIA changes the regs so that you will need a whole new car and design philosophy, now you’ve been forced out of the box that you built for yourself over the last ten years. As an analogy: would we have fairly advanced prosthetics if not for people losing limbs? Probably not, obviously losing a perfectly good arm is a bad thing, but you’ve now got an even better robot arm; which sounds like a good thing to me.
Well no because the teams dont exist in a vacuum. Innovation is pushed by the competition between teams, not the competition between the teams and the governing body. That's like saying we should change the rules of football every few years to stop tactics from stagnating.
F1 existed for years without anywhere near the level of regulation it has today, and there was never an example of stagnation. I mean the current Mercedes dominance is pretty close to the worst in the sports history, so even if the theory worked on paper (which it doesn't), it clearly isn't working in practice.
That being said I do think the FIA gets treated far too harshly. Almost everything they ban or regulate is about safety. They have successfully turned formula one from a borderline suicide pact into a relatively safe form or motorsport and I respect the hell out of that.
Bailey Jones The teams not being in a vacuum is exactly why I feel that way though, if one team is clearly dominating the field ( mercedes ), the other team either have to somehow make a faster car that doesn’t break the current regs ( which may not be possible ), copy the best car ( racing point ) or just settle for being slower. This would be very bad for the teams with less finances as the better funded will almost always make breakthroughs first as they can throw money at the problem. At least if they change the rules when a team is becoming too dominant, they give smaller teams a chance to find their own solutions. If the teams had nothing but safety regs to keep in mind then there would effectively be no competition anymore because the bigger teams would become untouchable. It’s a bit weird too how most of the fans agree that a Mercedes 1,2 every race is boring; but also are complaining that they are trying to shake things up a bit to knock Mercedes down a peg or two. The regs keep the sport competitive by levelling the playing field when required. Isn’t also more exciting to see how different the cars look after a big overhaul, as well as seeing how the teams have approached the design as opposed to seeing the same cars in the same positions year in year out?
@@kyranbatterbee4915 I'm very confused by what you just said. You basically used Mercedes dominance as an example of regulations working?
I also fundamentally disagree with the idea that money can buy innovation. It cant. William's is a good example. They have never been a high budget team and have always had management problems even in their heyday, but they were competitive because their engineers consistently thought outside the box. Now that they aren't able to do that and are basically stuck with the same cookie cutter car as everyone else, the focus switches from innovation to polishing the design the fia provides. Same with lotus, they were maybe the most influential team in f1 history dispite never ever being a well run or high budget team.
"Innovate...but not too much!" Ridiculous. Give every team the same car or give them the same budget with no restrictions other than general car dimensions.
...erm
no safety regulations then?
ツAtlas46 That's just a detail. Sure specify some crash safety requirements. The main point is if they want a V12, go for it. If they want an electric motor go for it. If they want more downforce, fine. Special breaking or steering fine. Let them innovate! It's as though dramatic innovation is not welcome but the same endpoint reached over a long period of smaller incremental innovations would be accepted which is silly.
So we would basically get pure dominance by one team. Restrictive regs prevent this.
It's a shame the majority of things have been banned and quite understanding that but how's about letting some banned items to be sneaked into the rules in a vague writing of a rule and let things go from there.
There should just be a series that doesn’t ban innovations/ rule exploits
Das is proof regulations are not to strict and Teams can Innovate still
aaaaand banned
-FIA
I think DAS was genious and i cannot understan why everything innovative in this sport must be banned
@Marc Jackson Let me help you with that...
www.v-eight.com/multimedia/pdf/AutoTechBRV.pdf
02:17 I never understood this discovery. Post-race scrutineering should discover that extra pedal. How did they not see it for more than a year? 🤔
Coulthard had a third pedal for the clutch. Realistic to believe the scrutineers thought Häkkinen’s pedal was for this also
@@m-rtin I thought this question too, and this answer makes sense. But wouldn't that mean that Coulthard had 4 pedals?
Do you think in the future where see a motorsport with driverless cars and no rules. Just who can get the fastest car around the track
I think the mistake benetton made with their design is that they tried to add that to a car that was already optimized to steer according to the grip it has. When they used it and the car was oversteery, they should have maybe used an aero package that went for less downforce. This would mean that they are faster on the straights due to less drag, and the car would otherwise be understeery. This way they achieve the steering angle and grip that they originally had, but enjoy faster speed on the straights.
This is assuming though that the system was good enough to be implemented. Obviously I don't know for sure.
I kinda disagree I believe because they ban everything makes the teams innovate cool ways to make a car faster. The reason I came to this video is when I saw the rules someone said two years ago about them allowed "only two wheels to be electronically controlled"
Then I thought "hmm" I wonder if anyone's tried rear wheel steering seems like the oldest trick in the book and what do you know. That mclaren one was the coolest.
People saying that banning innovation is bad have got this all wrong. The pressure the regulations place engineers under is precisely what necessitates innovation in the first place. If previous advancements hadn't have been banned, new advancements would never need to be developed. F1 designers are constantly innovating as a consequence of the rules, finding more and more ways to squeeze out performance in every way they can. And banning an advancement doesn't mean that that new technology disappears. F1 would probably just stagnate without the rules, as the hard limit of what a drivers body can endure would quickly be reached. Instead we have a Motorsport that constantly churns out new discoveries and innovations, because it needs to.
What about the pendulum device used in the Renault for the 2005 Championship,that was very creative.
Not steering and not a pendulum
It was a part of the suspension, a tuned mass damper, which makes the car more stable and less sensitibe to vibrations on kerbs and such
Tbh all this banning of innovation makes me tune out.
The ending was PFUNNY
I never understand why the FIA gets scared of innovation ? If it works, it's safe & it can be used by all the teams then why "BAN IT!!!!" ?
Should we ban turbos, power steering, sequential semi automatic gearboxes, fuel injection & everything else that improves the cars ?
The safety of the innovations is always debatable, and for other teams to implement something they need to spend ridiculous ammounts of money in R&D, even if they have to "copy" (reverse engineer) something, it's very expensive.
What FIA should ban is the ridiculous wheelbases these cars run. They look like road boats. The shorter sleeker cars of the 90s looked so much better.
Amen
@@leonardoaraujo8364 Amen 2
That's part of 2022 regs
vicmanvalfre96 Not enough imo. The current cars could be shortened by 3ft and still considered a bit long.
yea well I'm glad they are returning to ground effect now. Hopefully soon, they'll return to smaller, narrower, shorter wheelbase, lighter cars too. Hope they allow front wings like FE (I say that because the front tire wake is real). Hope they allow more reliability-related sensors and tire-wear monitoring sensors. Hope they allow brake steer for front tires, more dynamic settings for differentials. Maybe blown and/or double diffusers. That'd allow a wider variety of driving styles to succeed in the sport and we'd see different drivers winning on different tracks. Plus all those technologies can be vastly improved and who knows how that could enhance normal cars and normal vehicles.
Maybe this is why the reason F1 losing fans every year, there's no fun and entertainment if every car made "too equal" or maybe F1 is just a rotating advertisements rather than being a real racing.
Isn’t it kind of strange that the FIA would say it’s ok to build DAS, in secret consultations with Mercedes, and then move to banner as soon as It becomes public, but still allow use in the remainder of the season? Am I missing something?
It’s just a slap on the wrist like “oh you got us there”
Since it was legal according to the rules, though perhaps not in the spirit of them, the FIA wouldn’t want to discourage innovation by immediately banning it. To avoid other teams perhaps going through a phase of costly development, they banned it for next year, though.
The FIA having been consulted every step along the way of the design of DAS by Mercedes probably helped them as well, since then the FIA weren’t blindsided by it at testing.
FIAs incompetence is Mercedes win.
But it does sound weird that a governing body would give you parameters to use a device they wouldn't otherwise approve.
I wonder if Ferraris God PU of last year could've been legal if they'd have asked the FIA how to circumvent the rules.
It's a tough commercial problem the FIA faces, let designers go nuts and within a few years there'd be no more than four or five teams in the game and most races would be processions.
That wouldn't go well with audiences
1:20 That is not Adelaide.
Twenty-twenty-three and all cars had problems heating tyres.
Should it be brought back?
why cant' FIA allow unlimited innovation in f1 car. we might see more competitive race. mercedes come with das system and maybe there are other team that come with other innovations. sounds great to me
If they allowed every innovation the richest teams would sale away more and more every year, but stuff like McLarens third pedal is ingenious and relatively straightforward to incorporate into a car so probably shouldn’t have been banned imo
I hate how they ban everything that is good, just ban for ferrari for sucking!
One wheel brake is something tractors have. They have 2 seperate pedals for both rear left and rear right, but normally they are attached together. Obviously nothing for F1, but still interesting.
So do motorbikes, It makes control A LOT easier
There should be a committee which should be chaired 1/3 rd by vetted team representatives, 1/3 rd by vetted car mechanics and engineers, 1/3 rd by FIA stewards. This committee will review the appeals of FIA to ban innovations of teams. This will be a fair and swift tool for F1, also will remove the dogmatic monopoly of FIA politics in the sport which will empower team’s innovations and give them more sense if control.
But isn't a Diff setting a rear wheel steering device too?
No because the angle of the rear wheels doesn't change
@@davesmith5949 By that logic the extra brake pedal also didn't provide angle change lol
So no 4 wheel steering aswell
The DAS would have made tires last longer making them safer. Why would you band that?
The banning of everything is what makes F1 hard to really enjoy for me. I'm always left wondering what if. I just got into the sport last year and already I'm just tired of the FIAs constant meddling.
People don't get that if something is banned is either:
Not safe
Not fair
Breaks rules
Exploits regulation that will be updated
Not a good image
The fia was lobbied
It's not just a game of the hell with rules, did that in the 80's a people got hurt or worse
FIA- A one step back organisation
People complaining that the FIA bans innovations. Remember they are professionals better than us, they have a crap tone of experience.
Most of the time is a clear safety issue.
Or the F1 teams getting unfair advantage, because other teams can't innovative in time and it cost a lot of money.
Those one of the reasons I know, there are so many more.
I only agree in safety
@@DireWolfee1978 Hey, safety is the main reason agree with you. But massive advantage removes close to each other races.
My biggest problem with F1 is the crybaby teams. The FIA already takes all the fun out of exploring the grey areas of the rule book and pretty much ALL the creative freedom designers have on car designs and liveries. I want to see more innovations from engineers and teams to gain a competitive edge not have a monster of a team like Mercedes cry like little girls when a competitor gains a 10th of a second on a flying lap. Max and Redbull winning the championship this past year was one of the best changes to see in the sport.
Ask any mechanic and they’ll tell you that toe angle is a component of the suspension set-up.
Yes it is, but it's adjusted on the steering rack. To adjust toe on a normal car or a kart, you just screw the steering tie rod ends in or out. I don't see why it would be any different on an f1 car. I also drew up a concept to put DAS on a kart... it's actually not that difficult ae
5:09 redbull protestet in Austria not Australia
I wish they'd allow 4 wheel steering again :/
I dare say that one day the FIA will ban the cars themselves. Drivers and racing car companies should ban the FIA
1:20 I live in Adelaide and that ain't it
4mo late but yes that isn't even Adelaide
Darren Heath has eagle eye, right?
Racing is about putting distance between your competitors and not equal performance. Trying to ban and advantage does not make sense.
So the FIA basically helped Mercedes circumvent the regulations by giving them a means to using technology they would've otherwise not been allowed to use.
So...by that logic the Ferrari god power unit would've been legal if the FIA had told them how to implement it...nice.
No, the FIA didn't help Mercedes. The FIA is open to any team seeking assistance with the legality of anything they plan on developing. That's one of the main reasons Racing Point has a problem: they didn't ask the FIA about their rear brake ducts. If they did, the FIA said that they would have help them implementing the design.
The FIA just said to Merc:Oh you want to make this? It can't be like that because of that, that and that.
Merc: can we do this, this and this?
FIA: yes, even though we think is impossible, BTW it's gonna be banned next season
Merc: no problem
Someone PLEASE explain to me if there's any legitimate reason behind banning active suspension in F1????
Imagine how much MORE fun F1 would be if the cars had moved past the technology of late 80's/early 90's !
"It was too expensive"
30 years had passed. I'd be very surprised if the technology hadn't become affordable to pretty much everyone. Especially when it comes to computing...
@@AzathothsAlarmClock And what's wrong with that?
@@AzathothsAlarmClock Why not solve the issue with mandated minimum clearance instead of just banning the whole technology outright?
Here’s a thought... let F1 be F1... done! Stop squashing everything they invent and let them make radical cars that work, there’s an idea! Or just call it Spec F1 and they can all run the same equipment, oh wait there’s already many racing series like that.
F1 is getting ridiculous. It’s supposed to be the cutting edge of motor car engineering and yet your average VW golf has a more advanced electronic package. Traction control, anti lock brakes, radar cruise control and vector braking to name but a few. In the late 80s and 90s Mitsubishi’s and Honda had road going cars with 4ws. They should reduce the regulations and let the designers loose to find new ways of creating faster lap times instead of spend millions of dollars shaving tenths off in a wind tunnel.
No DAS in 2021? :(
I do not believe or think that reverse in a F1 car existed
It does exist
typical politics, ban the few things that are actually innovative... then again, they banned the ground effect long ago and it's only now that they decided to accept its gains, let's hope DAS make a comeback as well
@@AzathothsAlarmClock it was banned in '83, why do you think current cars lose 70% of their downforce when racing on the slipstream of the car ahead?
@@AzathothsAlarmClock
ruclips.net/video/dlNmWJLyylM/видео.html
At this rate we will see horse wagons racing very son.
Bonjour à tous, le FIA a banni les systèmes de direction en f1 innovants fin 2020 et vive le règlementation technique en 2022 des F1.
Merci cordialement, Johan.
You never explained what DAS does
Moves wheels in and out to create more friction and keep tyres warm in safety car periods.
@@Walden-jx4mi The track width front & back?
I have an idea since everything gets banned. Let's have all the cars with the same shape and technology from the 90s era and every car has to have the same shape, problem solved and just stop R&D at all
But banning ideas drives more r&d than not and every car has a different shape for this exact reason, if nothing was ever banned; then the best ideas would have been simply refined over the years and every car would have to be the same to keep up.
@@kyranbatterbee4915 it looks for gaps in the restrictions but it doesn't foments the R&D per se
Seb I don’t really understand what you’re trying to say
@@kyranbatterbee4915 sorry my point was let's just go to a more basic era, give same vehicles to everyone (like formula e or indi car), stop r&d at all and let's just define races by actual driver skills than having electronic and aero aids
Pedal, not peddle
Oh look, another Merc video
Don't worry. FiA will ban steering altogether. All because it is too costly for teams to invest it. As Steering is such a terrible innovation. Who needs corners?
since they don't tell you what it is and I had to google it, the Mercedes DAS system allows the driver to change the toe of the car.
Isn't it 2022 the DAS and RP merc copy is not allowed as the chassis' are largely frozen for 2021.
Everyone, and i mean everyone, absolutely HATES the FIA banning every new innovation that finds it's way into the sport. Why do the FIA even exist when all they do is make the sport more boring. FIA is the ones that should be banned instead.
2:24 when i see a femboy in public
If all innovative design is allowed, than f1 should balance it with a reverse grid
Everyone would just botch their quali then
@@ben_m7777 what i meant is there will be no quali
Red Bull: "We weren't smart enough to come up with that idea so let's do what we have to in order to get it banned."
*Ferrari
F1 is boring to many limits on technical innovation make it impossible for small teams to compete
WTF is a 'peddle'?
I mean, I KNOW what a 'pedal' is... You guys are supposed to be 'journalists'!!!
i really hate the FIA
So mercedes is racing illegal car
I honestly do not remember a time where Williams were considered a top team. I do remember in early 2000s when they were top 3.
They were a top team from 92-97. From 1980-1987.
@@ciaronsmith4995 So before my time, exactly my point. I do not remember them being a top team.
@@HMCarReviews 2001-2003 as well. But yeah that's fine.
@@ciaronsmith4995 I do remember them being top 3 during the early 2000s but not the top team. For me Juan Pablo Montoya was Williams glory years.
@@HMCarReviews Juan Pablo Montoya is the best driver Williams had since Senna. JPM or Hill. I think JPM was faster anyways. Williams had the best car in 2003.
When the Mercedes haters recognize that the fact the DAS isn’t only one innovation what banned after one year: 👁👄👁
(I know, my english is bad as hell, I’m hungarian)
5:20 No! Das is a “innovative” only if Ferrari’s 2019 engine was a “innovation” don’t you just love propaganda 🤦♀️
Language connected to propaganda is amazing but that’s life unfortunately. The words are very simple people Mercedes CHEATED 😘 with that das system enjoy that dirty title you won
3:02 and 4:28 Can you please stop putting cringey shit like this in your videos. It's not funny, quirky, fresh, cute, or whatever it is you're going for. It's just cringe. (Also Jake get yourself off this sinking ship and over to the Race, they need you over there!).
RB is soooo butt hurt. They wreck young drivers by encouraging idiotic overtaking to compensate for their unstable chassis designs. Madd Maxx is destined for the wall if he doesn't get traded.
It's good to see Mercedes agreeing to banning DAS. Other teams that innovated something would be appealing like crazy.
This is basically like saying "Our car is so perfectly tuned and designed, you can ban it, but you won't stop our dominance!".
this aged well