Big thanks to Ridge for sending me this wallet and supporting the channel! Here’s the site if you want to check them out! > ridge.com/DRIVER61 Who want's to see more of Big Kev in future videos?
Should let your dad speak more! A gem for sure and his experience would bring much more depth and flavour to the regular content! Excellent video and hope that he can walk us through the experience of working with legacy cars in further workshop or interview videos on the channel
I like the idea. And for example in what condition the car comes in, how he's assessing what he'll do, how hard it is to find the right parts,... I would watch 1h+ of that kind of content.
Your dad was trying to explain to you that the headers are of equal length, not unequal length. That's why the ones nearest the collector have more convoluted loops, to add length within that shorter distance.
Fascinating to see the car so up close. Scott, I'd love to see how these old girls get prepped for modern racing, with presumably much cheaper replacement engines? Are they on Monico spec suspension for the added strength and reliability?
You can see in the video (on the engine) that's a Judd engine, which as far as I know wasn't used originally in any Benetton F1. So I guess yes, it has Judd's replacement engine: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judd_(engine) juddpower.com/our-engines/ (3000km between rebuilds) It is a quite common engine swap: ruclips.net/user/results?search_query=judd+engine++swap
@@B4ndItOo yes, DriveTribe recently did a video about JUDD as well, they make and maintain a lot of V10 engines for older F1 cars to be used in historic races and things like Goodwood FOS
From personal experience on 1994 Tyrrells and 1998 Benettons - their engines are Judd 3.5 liter V10s for sports cars and detuned somewhat. If memory serves me, 11,000 RPM vs 19,000 so they can run about 1600 race miles between a $45,000 rebuild by Judd. That still was good for about 750 HP in a 1400 lb. car. The cars I worked on used steel suspension parts instead of carbon fiber and used, not new, brake pads and rotors. On these cars the clutch was actuated by a pedal and the gearbox was shifted electrically. I think they had to replace all the wiring in the car to fit the new engine computer and data system. Racing historic F1 cars is not a cheap hobby, by any means.
The primary pipes are all the same length as your dad said. Not different lengths as you said. The rear pipe curves forward to make it the same length as the front pipe.
The exhaust headers are the same length - you keep saying that “if they were the same length”. I’m not sure you’re grasping how this works, it has to do with optimizing the pressure wave through the exhaust to maximize efficiency of each cylinder removing their exhaust gasses.
@@danspeed7039 Right - that’s what he’s saying. But they are the same length that’s why you can see them curled up, it’s the same principal for fuel injectors for diesels.
I agree, I don't think he grasped that at all.. the header nearest the collector has the most contorted path because it has to be the same length as the furthest header from the collector... its not a new concept by any means, performance manifolds have been designed this way for at least 70 years that I know of...
On a tuned exhaust system, the length of the tube from the cylinder head to the exhaust header are all the same length, regardless of which cylinder they are. That length would be determined by the requirements of the engine....a high-revving engine would have a shorter primary pipe, and a lower-revving but high-torque engine uses a longer pipe. Your end requirements will determine the eventual length. This "length" could be measured by linear length or volumetric capacity.
He's not. There's plenty information out there (just use a search engine and you'll find Scott's own words about how his dad, Kevin, not Nigel, built his kart when he was young).
One of the best videos covering the incredible engineering of F1 cars. You should definitely try to do more of this it’s awesome to see the car like this! More collabs with your dad please! 🙏🏼
I'd love to see more of these type of videos as this is the engineering that draws me to F1. The technology and materials are amazing to learn about, every tiny detail fascinates me.
FYI: There is no difference between a torsion bar and a coil spring. Both work identically via torsion. The only difference is one is a straight torsion member and the other is wound into a coil. Both are loaded in torsion.
@@trevor311264 Are they though? Is it not bending rather than torsion? The bar which forms the spring is never really twisted as it would be in torsion but is bent to get the individual coils closer.
@@bobm7275 that does not mean anything, a spring is a coiled torsion bar, it is still a torsion bar. don't confuse it with what is often referred to as a torsion spring though!
2:18 I love how your father's original answer to what's the point of using a torsion bar, before you rephrased the question was to just show you the torsion bar. Like, duh, you see how tiny this thing is??? I laughed when he did it.
🤯the length of the primary pipes section blew my mind. I knew about back pressure from 2-strokes but the idea that each pressure wave is in order is wild but makes so much sense. Thank you!
I could sit here for hours just listening to you and (mostly :P) your dad explain every detail of those cars. How things work, why it is the way it is, show everything up close. Please post most content like this, it's invaluable as there's nothing like this on the internet.
As others have said, a coil spring is a torsion bar that has been curled up. If you looked at a slice of a coil spring and observed it springing, it would be doing torsion bar moves. I think coils are cheaper to make. No precision machined spline on each end. Just roughly wound in a spiral. I seem to recall that the stiffness of a coil spring rises as the sixth power of the wire diameter. Doubling the wire diameter makes the spring 64 times stiffer.
Exactly, you beat me to it. Interestingly, what we would call torsion springs (leg springs) are actually wound up bending bars, and compresson (helical springs) are loaded by torsion. Makes no sense ;-)
@@ameraldas3641 Well and the small Peugeot`s in the 80ties and 90ties like the 106, 205 and 306 had a torsionbar spring in the rear..... It saves a lot of space....
MORE OF YOUR DAD PLEASE! God he seems such a lovable and knowledgeable character and the calmness in his voice makes me want to listen to some racing stories from him!
Your Dad may be a genius. That's the BEST, most succinct explanation of exhaust I've ever heard. He knows his stuff so well that he can teach extremely difficult concepts in the simplest terms. True mark of a rare talent.
You guided your father through that conversation beautifully. I had the same relationship with my father and would need to finesse his engineering descriptions to make it understandable to the general public. Great video.
I love this channel. Super informative and he doesn't waste time. He's more interested in providing good content than being in love with the sound of his own voice (other youtubers take note). Even his ads are useful and minimally intrusive - for the first time in my life I'm about to buy something off a YT ad. And his pops is a gem. Keep up the good work, you're making the internet suck less.
This answered a lot of questions for me, I absolutely love seeing the internals of historic F1 machines. I'd love to have the opportunity to see these cars in person and maybe learn more about them one day! I'm not very fluent in mathematics (really bad, actually...), but I have an enormous passion for racing machines, I'd love to study related subjects when I go to Uni. I thought approaching karting would allow me to see and experience these kinds of mechanisms, but it has not been easy for me, as it's hard to afford and extremely inaccessible here in Korea. I'd die to get the opportunity to get closer to this world that fascinates me so much. Thank you so much for making this video!!
@@markmitchell450 understood, but what resonates with me is my interest in 2 strokes. An 4 stroke engine tuner, I read, wrote that the higher the rpm the more the 4 stroke behaves like two stroke. So I was thinking of the expansion chambers on 2 strokes.
I love Scott’s enthusiasm, a couple of cold hours trying to remove the original torsion bars from a rusty Morris Minor has killed all mine off, thank God Lord Nuffield said no to putting them on the back and hurrah for angle grinders.
Eh, I recommend reducing distractions around you when watching a video full of lots of details. The grown ups told exactly where the Easter eggs are. Just gotta pay attention, kids. Or have the baby sitter help with context clues and comprehension. Good luck with your shoe laces, though.
@@giantfisher what the fuck are you on about? I understood the video clearly. I thought it was a funny bit of irony. Thats all. Contemporary F1 cars dont have torsion springs anymore. Sooo...
@@giantfisher lol they only talked about the benefits of torsion bars so if there are no downsides to it then why would they put coils in the rear? Obviously theres something missing in the reasoning.
My mate has a 57 year old E-Type Jag in his garage currenty being restored and that's fitted with front torsion bar suspension for the same reason as F1 cars presumeably. What a beautiful machine it is, even the inlet manifold is a work of art and looks like it came out of the factory yesterday.
When I hear torsion bar, I think of tank suspensions, or picture them being used on something excessively heavy. I don't normally think of them in use on something so light.
Peugeot used to use them in the rear trailing arms of their hot hatches... worked really well and with no struts required it helped maximise boot space.
Mmh kind of annoying to watch a technical video in which the presenter doesn't understand what he's talking about and/or keeps saying erroneous things. There's a very good explanation of exhaust scavenging by Engineering Explained here: ruclips.net/video/jjPeP_Nn2B4/видео.html
Yeah I noticed that too. Maybe @Driver61 was thinking that their shapes are not equal (all different curves) but he was saying "unequal" when in fact, on basically any performance vehicle, the primary tubes are always equal length/tuned. The caveat would be for packaging reasons, sometimes a log style exhaust will be used instead of equal length headers (see the 2014 Mercedes W05 F1 car)
I think the real shame is that he didnt realize since the cylinders dont fire at the same time, they have to be equal length primary tubes to keep the exhaust gases from " banging " into each other. A light bulb should have went off, realizing ...wait a minute 🤔
I had the pleasure of meeting Kevin last year at Folkestone Services. He was on his way to Imola with the B197 (Jean Alasi's car) for the weekends racing. I bought a seat from him and his lovely wife for my race car. Lovely guy and couldn't be more helpful. Great video Scott, I'd love to see more of you and your dad doing tech talk videos. 👍👍
@@ltec1 Yep. Just about. I heard it as more of a pause for reassessment than a 'to': "So you've got eight-hundred... a thousand degrees..." Toasty-warm in anybody's book. ;-)
Straight torsion bars have existed since the earlier days of the motorcar. The ones featured here are advanced-material versions of a classic design. I wish they would have covered the rebound dampening process inside the nose of this modern marvel. The old-school dampener versions had stacked adjustable disc pads with a tightening screw in the centre to adjust the friction, thus speed, of the rebound. It actually worked well for it's era.
@@JoeGator23 iirc torsion bars were first introduced on production vehicles on the German Panther tanks, as they had used it for suspension, and started the trend of torsion bar suspension throughout combat vehicles from then on, even the Abrams of today uses the Torsion bar
This was really cool to have some technical insight into an F1 car. I know for sure how important the exhaust is. I compete in the cheapest rally class here in Sweden which are running stock engines. The exhaust is free after the manifold though so me and my father built a new exhaust that was designed by my fathers friend. We ended up gaining 8-9 hp just from that exhaust and that is on a 115hp Corolla. In total with a new exhaust with race cat, sport air filter with attempts to make as much air as possible flow to the filter, remapping the control box and top decking and balancing the engine we are almost up to 150 hp!
Pretty interesting. I think you said that the exhausts were all different length. They are the same length and the convolutions are there because they have to be the same length. Also, there is more to it than just gas flow restriction. There are shock waves that travel through the exhaust gas (like sound waves through air) and those shock waves have a positive and negative pressure aspect. The trick is to get a negative pressure wave front reflected back from the collector to the exhaust valve as it opens to help suck the gasses out. A huge amount of power is gained this way. (but only at a particular rev range). Similar waves are used on the inlet side as well. A positive pressure wave can actually help keep gasses in the cylinder before the valves have fully closed. Pipe lengths and valve timing go hand in hand. Also, on the springs. The thing about the rear coil overs is that they coil over 'dampers' so it wasn't a fair comparison. Where were the dampers for the front suspension? Presumably they would still be a piston through oil, like the rear ones so they would take up space too. Also, a coil spring is actually a torsion spring too. It is just wound in a coil. It is still a twisting motion on the actual spring material.
@@phamnuwen9442 Good observation. Still it is a twisting motion on the spring that is the primary spring force if you think about it. Each turn of the coil actual prevents the the ends being free as you say. Just as if you bend the ends of a torsion bar 90 degrees to stop it twisting, the coil provides that function over the length of the spring wire. The alternate to it being torsion forces are bending forces like big flat leaf springs and while there may be a bit of that it is primarily a twisting motion providing the spring. So, it is the coil itself that prevents the rotation around the axis. Although I wouldn't be surprised if there was a tiny residual twist at the ends.
@@Igbon5 While I'm sure there is some twisting motion going on in a coil spring, I don't think that means it makes sense to call it a torsion spring. The way the suspension utilizes the different spring types is clearly quite different. Coil springs work by being compressed and torsion springs are twisted.
@@phamnuwen9442 Coil springs appear to work by compression but they don't. Compression springs are something like a rubber ball or block, or a an amount of air in a container which can be compressed. The spring metal in a coil spring is not being compressed it is being twisted.
@@Igbon5 I think you're not seeing the forest for the trees here. A coil spring is used in compression by the system it's mounted in regardless if there is some twisting motion is happening inside the spring itself. A coil spring inside a compressive suspension could be replaced by a solid block of rubber or an air cylinder. You could not replace any of these things with a torsion spring unless you changed the suspension system to one that uses torsion.
Liked this video 3 times. The first time happened automatically due to the good nature of the video, the second happened by accident at the end of the video, somehow I forgot I had already liked. And then the third time to actually leave it liked. This is what happens the content is so good, you forget you already like the video and tries to like it one more time.
@@nikolaihedler8883 Torsion bars are more common than you would think but yes, coil and leaf springs are more common on road cars. But you'd be surprised how many old pickups are still on american highways with torsion bars up front, leafs in the back.
At 4:25 the son says, "If they were the same lengths they wouldn't come out, they'd all bang together." Wrong! They are all the same lengths. The pistons fire at different times and the exhaust pulses travel the same distances to arrive at the collector at different times. The pulses don't bang together. The pipes that start closer to the collector need to be curved to be the same length as from the farthest cylinder.
Technically, the torsion bar is a spring. It is not in the sense of how a spring commonly looks like. The torsion bar deforms elastically and when the workload doesn't exceed the yielding stress of the torsion bar, the bar springs back to the original shape. This is fundamentally how things (any springs) deform. Edited: Shout out to my student Ben W if you are out there, make sure to let your cousin know that I'm so happy that you guys are getting married. -- Prof. Obvious
Funny how you were talking the pipes have different lengths and your dad immediately said they are equal length. Great video, great content, really interesting, but you need to rehearse the videos.
You misunderstood Peter :D (edit: and gone is Peter's comment) 3:46 Cleary says 'equal length' The idea after it is that the flow stays constant. The previous exhaust cycle helps pulling the next one out this way.
Super fascinating!! I always wondered why the exhaust pipes were so oddly shaped. I also had no idea the rear suspension was mounted on the gearbox! That makes formula 1 cars even more incredible!
Been like that for years. Even back when most of the teams used Hewland transaxles (quite often n conjunction with a Ford DFV engine) the suspension was bolted to it. That was from the 1980's.
Nope. The coils don't twist, they're flexed sideways at any point along the coil, as the whole is compressed. Any rotation observed is due to the sideways movement being expressed along the coil, it's an optical thing, not the actual moment of change.
@@PiDsPagePrototypes Nope, as you used "moment", that suggests some engineering training, so perhaps you review their working principles - with an emphasis on how to calculate their rates compared to torsion springs?
@@PiDsPagePrototypes This is just as wrong as your first comment. Helix is a corkscrew shape you are thinking of DNA which is a DOUBLE helix. It's so easy with the internet to fact check yourself. A coil is like when you wind the hose up, helix is more accurate.
I was scratching my head about the title saying no spring and the pic is a torsion spring. Sprung steel is sprung steel no matter what the shape is. With that logic leaf springs aren’t springs either.
True! And from my mechanical engineering background... torsion and spring actually “work” the same way locally. In flexion. This is a bit counterintuitive the first time though. 😅
"Why F1 Suspension Doesn't Use Springs!" Same reason vintage VW Beetles don't use springs. Torsions bars are very compact. Likewise with many battle tanks. This guy is inserting a massive torsion spring, one of 12 in a restored WWII Tiger: blog.tiger-tank.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/2-5-4550-E5.jpg
And many Peugeots! And Alfa’s... Loads of great handling light cars in general. I think the main reason they’ve fallen out of favour is due to the increased weight of newer cars, even on light old cars like 205 they’d settle and need the height adjusting over time. Also if they break while a cars under warranty, it’s a lot harder to extract than a broken coil spring on a strut or a rear beam.
We used to call the exhausts...extractors...due to each pulse acting like a scavenger which helped pull along the next pulse to reach the collector. Nice workshop. Thanks for a great video from little Kev.
Would be cool if you'd introduce a topic and then let your dad just run with it a bit. I know that we all appreciate your dad being cool with taking time out of his work to answer your/our questions. Now I also know why you love F1 so much. Looking at that Benetton in your dad's shop turns me green with envy. As a retired heavy line mechanic, I can tell you. I sure wish I had opportunities to work on that type of car just once in a while. Your dad's cool mate. Buy him a pint from me!!!!!
Amazing stuff...The torsion bars going from an already small bar, to a rediculously small one...No limits. And so many ideas make it to road cars. Im old enough to remember when over head camshafts, and fuel injection was radical stuff. Stone age, i am.
Very cool seeing the suspension geometry and headers close up, awesome video. Love how they manage to get such a tiny torsion bar to take all that stress.
What an interesting video. As the saying goes you learn something every day and I certainly did with this video. So I take it that the engine in the Benetton is not from the original engine supplier. I read that the Red Bull mechanics have difficulty working on Adrian’s cars as he does not consider that part when designing them.
this whole video was packaged in a clickbaity way. didnt even answer the question at the end about why they put the springs on the gearbox, its to keep the weight as close to center of mass as possible.
09:53 RB overheating problem came also with the KERS batteries in 2011. Optimising weight distribution and centre of gravity, therefore balance (of the car) Adrian Newey required his team to place KERS batteries in a special way.
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Big thanks to Ridge for sending me this wallet and supporting the channel! Here’s the site if you want to check them out! > ridge.com/DRIVER61
Who want's to see more of Big Kev in future videos?
Can I work for your dad?
Can i work for him too? Can we see more videos like this? Can i like this video twice?
Yes, more of the footage with your pop at his shop.
Me. More on F1 Engine tech please. Is that a Judd V10?
pitty that you did not show how dumpers at the front works. Also explanation of heave springs would be nice.
Should let your dad speak more! A gem for sure and his experience would bring much more depth and flavour to the regular content! Excellent video and hope that he can walk us through the experience of working with legacy cars in further workshop or interview videos on the channel
I like the idea. And for example in what condition the car comes in, how he's assessing what he'll do, how hard it is to find the right parts,... I would watch 1h+ of that kind of content.
@@alpha007org +1
well he doesn't seem much of a talkative person though...but maybe that's just my sensation
+1 here too
it reminds me of Tyrrell's Classic Workshop - powered by Harry's garage
Your dad need his own platform ;)
Your father's a good and knowledgeable person. No wonder you're his son. Wish him good health.
I wish him bad health through multiple RUclips profiles, thus rendering your wishes not only nulled, but reversed.
@@ThisIsGoogle why so mean?
Actually, that is not why he is his son. I could explain it but sex-ed videos are not what I do.
@@trevor311264 You could use fingers.
He’s a good engineer:)
Your dad was trying to explain to you that the headers are of equal length, not unequal length. That's why the ones nearest the collector have more convoluted loops, to add length within that shorter distance.
Thanks, that makes sense now :)
Well.... when you add loops you make different restrictions so it's more equal restriction headers they are not equal in length but equal in flow
Fascinating to see the car so up close. Scott, I'd love to see how these old girls get prepped for modern racing, with presumably much cheaper replacement engines? Are they on Monico spec suspension for the added strength and reliability?
You can see in the video (on the engine) that's a Judd engine, which as far as I know wasn't used originally in any Benetton F1. So I guess yes, it has Judd's replacement engine:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judd_(engine)
juddpower.com/our-engines/ (3000km between rebuilds)
It is a quite common engine swap:
ruclips.net/user/results?search_query=judd+engine++swap
@@B4ndItOo yes, DriveTribe recently did a video about JUDD as well, they make and maintain a lot of V10 engines for older F1 cars to be used in historic races and things like Goodwood FOS
The Monaco suspension is probably better for short, bumpy British tracks
From personal experience on 1994 Tyrrells and 1998 Benettons - their engines are Judd 3.5 liter V10s for sports cars and detuned somewhat. If memory serves me, 11,000 RPM vs 19,000 so they can run about 1600 race miles between a $45,000 rebuild by Judd. That still was good for about 750 HP in a 1400 lb. car. The cars I worked on used steel suspension parts instead of carbon fiber and used, not new, brake pads and rotors. On these cars the clutch was actuated by a pedal and the gearbox was shifted electrically. I think they had to replace all the wiring in the car to fit the new engine computer and data system. Racing historic F1 cars is not a cheap hobby, by any means.
The primary pipes are all the same length as your dad said. Not different lengths as you said. The rear pipe curves forward to make it the same length as the front pipe.
The exhaust headers are the same length - you keep saying that “if they were the same length”. I’m not sure you’re grasping how this works, it has to do with optimizing the pressure wave through the exhaust to maximize efficiency of each cylinder removing their exhaust gasses.
Sounds like ther saying there NOT al the same length
@@danspeed7039 Right - that’s what he’s saying. But they are the same length that’s why you can see them curled up, it’s the same principal for fuel injectors for diesels.
I agree, I don't think he grasped that at all.. the header nearest the collector has the most contorted path because it has to be the same length as the furthest header from the collector... its not a new concept by any means, performance manifolds have been designed this way for at least 70 years that I know of...
he's been driving a subaru!
On a tuned exhaust system, the length of the tube from the cylinder head to the exhaust header are all the same length, regardless of which cylinder they are. That length would be determined by the requirements of the engine....a high-revving engine would have a shorter primary pipe, and a lower-revving but high-torque engine uses a longer pipe. Your end requirements will determine the eventual length. This "length" could be measured by linear length or volumetric capacity.
Im starting to believe that you're related to Nigel Mansell
That's been my number 1 question ever since I started watching these videos
No he's not related as far as I can recall.
He's not. There's plenty information out there (just use a search engine and you'll find Scott's own words about how his dad, Kevin, not Nigel, built his kart when he was young).
He's not Nigel Mansell???
@John Martin Cantorne so like Mark Webber when hes sick or after xmas dinner?
One of the best videos covering the incredible engineering of F1 cars. You should definitely try to do more of this it’s awesome to see the car like this! More collabs with your dad please! 🙏🏼
I'd love to see more of these type of videos as this is the engineering that draws me to F1. The technology and materials are amazing to learn about, every tiny detail fascinates me.
FYI: There is no difference between a torsion bar and a coil spring. Both work identically via torsion. The only difference is one is a straight torsion member and the other is wound into a coil. Both are loaded in torsion.
Absolutely correct, when you compress a spring you are actually twisting the material it is made from, it is just a coiled torsion bar.
@@trevor311264 Are they though? Is it not bending rather than torsion? The bar which forms the spring is never really twisted as it would be in torsion but is bent to get the individual coils closer.
A torsion bar is lighter and takes up much less space.
There is no difference besides their shape, appearance, and size. Great comment RoboticGladiator.
@@bobm7275 that does not mean anything, a spring is a coiled torsion bar, it is still a torsion bar. don't confuse it with what is often referred to as a torsion spring though!
My mum bought be a Benneton T-Shirt 2 years ago. Imagine my delight when my F1 knowledge grew and I got to know Benneton was once an F1 team.
imagine my surprise today when I learned its a fashion company...
[ deletes several comments ]
2:18 I love how your father's original answer to what's the point of using a torsion bar, before you rephrased the question was to just show you the torsion bar. Like, duh, you see how tiny this thing is??? I laughed when he did it.
🤯the length of the primary pipes section blew my mind. I knew about back pressure from 2-strokes but the idea that each pressure wave is in order is wild but makes so much sense. Thank you!
You really should make this a series. Please consider it!!! 30mins+ per episode per month would be a best thing ever
Imagine a second channel run by Scott and his Dad!
I could sit here for hours just listening to you and (mostly :P) your dad explain every detail of those cars. How things work, why it is the way it is, show everything up close. Please post most content like this, it's invaluable as there's nothing like this on the internet.
As others have said, a coil spring is a torsion bar that has been curled up. If you looked at a slice of a coil spring and observed it springing, it would be doing torsion bar moves. I think coils are cheaper to make. No precision machined spline on each end. Just roughly wound in a spiral. I seem to recall that the stiffness of a coil spring rises as the sixth power of the wire diameter. Doubling the wire diameter makes the spring 64 times stiffer.
it also saves space, most 2000 chevy silverados have torsion springs, because there was simply not enough space, for coilovers.
Exactly, you beat me to it. Interestingly, what we would call torsion springs (leg springs) are actually wound up bending bars, and compresson (helical springs) are loaded by torsion. Makes no sense ;-)
@@ameraldas3641 Well and the small Peugeot`s in the 80ties and 90ties like the 106, 205 and 306 had a torsionbar spring in the rear..... It saves a lot of space....
@@schuncken cool I have not been alive that long or lived in europe so I wouldn't know about puegot cars
MORE OF YOUR DAD PLEASE!
God he seems such a lovable and knowledgeable character and the calmness in his voice makes me want to listen to some racing stories from him!
That Benetton is in beautiful condition. They really are pieces of art.
Your Dad may be a genius. That's the BEST, most succinct explanation of exhaust I've ever heard. He knows his stuff so well that he can teach extremely difficult concepts in the simplest terms. True mark of a rare talent.
You guided your father through that conversation beautifully. I had the same relationship with my father and would need to finesse his engineering descriptions to make it understandable to the general public. Great video.
I'd love to see more tech and real cars original footage like this one, and your father is a great addition to the show!!
More of this PLEASE!
I love this channel. Super informative and he doesn't waste time. He's more interested in providing good content than being in love with the sound of his own voice (other youtubers take note). Even his ads are useful and minimally intrusive - for the first time in my life I'm about to buy something off a YT ad. And his pops is a gem. Keep up the good work, you're making the internet suck less.
This was fantastic. Your father explains things well.
This answered a lot of questions for me, I absolutely love seeing the internals of historic F1 machines. I'd love to have the opportunity to see these cars in person and maybe learn more about them one day! I'm not very fluent in mathematics (really bad, actually...), but I have an enormous passion for racing machines, I'd love to study related subjects when I go to Uni. I thought approaching karting would allow me to see and experience these kinds of mechanisms, but it has not been easy for me, as it's hard to afford and extremely inaccessible here in Korea. I'd die to get the opportunity to get closer to this world that fascinates me so much. Thank you so much for making this video!!
Today Im going to watch some Driver61
Oh my goodness, an actual INTELLIGENT RUclips channel. Brilliant, I love it.
Glad I found it, I will keep watching!
Thank YOU!
I really enjoyed this video. In particular the exhaust length. Excellent work.
Headers and exhausts are a proven science but whoever actually makes it certainly is clever
@@markmitchell450 understood, but what resonates with me is my interest in 2 strokes. An 4 stroke engine tuner, I read, wrote that the higher the rpm the more the 4 stroke behaves like two stroke. So I was thinking of the expansion chambers on 2 strokes.
I LOVE THIS CHANNEL , I HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR THIS KIND OF F1 CONTENT FOR SO LONG THANK YOU SO MUCH FROM THE BAHAMAS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here's a car that uses a torsion bar. You can't see it in here; it's all hidden... now a word from our sponsor.
I wish i had sponsors. Sponsoring myself sucks
Thank you for your comment, I shall move on
"...it's all hidden." [Flashes a squiggly sketch for a moment] I found that equal parts annoying and amusing.
Awesome serie to come. So many details here. Thanks.
Yesssss love this channel so much😍 thank you so much dude for making me happy!
I love Scott’s enthusiasm, a couple of cold hours trying to remove the original torsion bars from a rusty Morris Minor has killed all mine off, thank God Lord Nuffield said no to putting them on the back and hurrah for angle grinders.
“F1 cars dont have coil springs.”
Shows F1 car with coil springs.
My immediate thought too
Eh, I recommend reducing distractions around you when watching a video full of lots of details. The grown ups told exactly where the Easter eggs are. Just gotta pay attention, kids. Or have the baby sitter help with context clues and comprehension. Good luck with your shoe laces, though.
@@giantfisher what the fuck are you on about?
I understood the video clearly. I thought it was a funny bit of irony. Thats all.
Contemporary F1 cars dont have torsion springs anymore. Sooo...
@@devinwalton408 Once again , my thoughts exactly.
@@giantfisher lol they only talked about the benefits of torsion bars so if there are no downsides to it then why would they put coils in the rear? Obviously theres something missing in the reasoning.
My mate has a 57 year old E-Type Jag in his garage currenty being restored and that's fitted with front torsion bar suspension for the same reason as F1 cars presumeably. What a beautiful machine it is, even the inlet manifold is a work of art and looks like it came out of the factory yesterday.
I love whenever youtubers feature their parents on video, they almost always enhance the experience.
It's amazing, how much information you can learn from a 10 minute video. Being an engineer, this video just made my day. Thank you.
“We are going to a work shop with 5 F1 cars” shows one
Your videos on F1 cars is very insightful. I use your videos as a reference when i set up cars in Iracing. Thanks from a former mechanic
Your dad should start his own channel tbh
Your videos are incredibly informative! One of the best sources of technical content I've found! Great video!
Say hi to your dad from me. Been a good few years since I’ve seen him 😊 I have a picture of my son sitting in one of those Benetton’s
Very informative..your dad looks great..tnx 4 all the entertaining uploads!!!
Mate, your channel needs to become a TV show! Such good production level and enthusiasm! Excellent work.
This is quality, please do more videos like this!
I'm not really an F1 fan but I really like your easy to understand technical explanations.
I would love to have a collection of vintage F1 cars in my garage, all I have is two dirt bikes and loads of junk.
And I wish I had a garage!
@@zrspangle I wish I had some junk
All I got is a riding mower and junk.
You have a large garage
@@markmitchell450 I wish I had a life.
When I hear torsion bar, I think of tank suspensions, or picture them being used on something excessively heavy. I don't normally think of them in use on something so light.
Like 2wd chevy trucks?
Peugeot used to use them in the rear trailing arms of their hot hatches... worked really well and with no struts required it helped maximise boot space.
When I hear torsion bar I think rear suspension on a cheap front wheel drive hatchback. Hard to believe F1 uses them.
Had them in an 87 civic si. In my opinion the coolest Honda ever. Just a nightmare/expensive looking for aftermarket parts.
The Volkswagen Beetle uses this torsion bar too.
Torsion bars were used for the front suspension on the Morris Minor and the XK-150.
Twice you insisted on saying the primaries were "unequal" length while your dad was telling you they were "equal" length.
Mmh kind of annoying to watch a technical video in which the presenter doesn't understand what he's talking about and/or keeps saying erroneous things.
There's a very good explanation of exhaust scavenging by Engineering Explained here: ruclips.net/video/jjPeP_Nn2B4/видео.html
Yeah I noticed that too. Maybe @Driver61 was thinking that their shapes are not equal (all different curves) but he was saying "unequal" when in fact, on basically any performance vehicle, the primary tubes are always equal length/tuned. The caveat would be for packaging reasons, sometimes a log style exhaust will be used instead of equal length headers (see the 2014 Mercedes W05 F1 car)
@@43ten43 the logs/pseudo logs ony really work in a high performance package when they have a turbo mounted as close as possible.
I think the real shame is that he didnt realize since the cylinders dont fire at the same time, they have to be equal length primary tubes to keep the exhaust gases from " banging " into each other. A light bulb should have went off, realizing ...wait a minute 🤔
Dad must be quietly wishing a better sperm won the race😂
I had the pleasure of meeting Kevin last year at Folkestone Services. He was on his way to Imola with the B197 (Jean Alasi's car) for the weekends racing. I bought a seat from him and his lovely wife for my race car. Lovely guy and couldn't be more helpful. Great video Scott, I'd love to see more of you and your dad doing tech talk videos. 👍👍
And there I was thinking you were Nigel’s son all this time. 🤦🏻♂️ Keep up the great content. Thanks.
fudstanchion your not the only one 😅😅
Really cool video. Never a gear head, but when we start talking physics, laminar flow, turbulence, etc.....its more my speed. Great job.
My 66 Dodge starts to feel moder. We had torsion bars already in old days :D
My exact thought.. mopar formula 1 team!
@@gorkzop
That would be awesome. I'd cheer for them like how I cheer for Toyota in NASCAR.
@@gorkzop like mopar knows how to Make good v6s
Super cool to see the beautifully made parts on F1 cars.
800,000 degrees is a lot. 🤣
Haha, you're not wrong!
And then you have one blob of engine... ;-)
www.onlinemetals.com/en/melting-points
I think I heard “800 to 1000”, right?
@@ltec1 Yep. Just about. I heard it as more of a pause for reassessment than a 'to':
"So you've got eight-hundred... a thousand degrees..."
Toasty-warm in anybody's book. ;-)
@@EleanorPeterson yeah but either way not 800,000 degrees lmao
This was incredible! Would love to see more videos with your dad! Also, the back and forth conversation was pretty great!
The old Moggie 1000 ( 1959 ) had torsion bar suspension on the front wheels.
The Citroën Traction (1934) had still torsion bars on all wheels (all independant)...
So glad I found this channel today, can't stop watching. Thanks for all your hard work!
Compressing a coil-spring twists the rod it is made from. It’s a way of making a long torsion-bar shorter.
Straight torsion bars have existed since the earlier days of the motorcar. The ones featured here are advanced-material versions of a classic design. I wish they would have covered the rebound dampening process inside the nose of this modern marvel.
The old-school dampener versions had stacked adjustable disc pads with a tightening screw in the centre to adjust the friction, thus speed, of the rebound. It actually worked well for it's era.
@@JoeGator23 iirc torsion bars were first introduced on production vehicles on the German Panther tanks, as they had used it for suspension, and started the trend of torsion bar suspension throughout combat vehicles from then on, even the Abrams of today uses the Torsion bar
This was really cool to have some technical insight into an F1 car. I know for sure how important the exhaust is. I compete in the cheapest rally class here in Sweden which are running stock engines. The exhaust is free after the manifold though so me and my father built a new exhaust that was designed by my fathers friend. We ended up gaining 8-9 hp just from that exhaust and that is on a 115hp Corolla. In total with a new exhaust with race cat, sport air filter with attempts to make as much air as possible flow to the filter, remapping the control box and top decking and balancing the engine we are almost up to 150 hp!
Son: Why are these all different lengths?
Dad: They are all the same length.
Every Automotive enthusiast on the internet: *exhales*
...exhales through equal length exhausts!
At this point I am enjoying these videos more than than the actual F1 race.... Keep it up.
Pretty interesting.
I think you said that the exhausts were all different length. They are the same length and the convolutions are there because they have to be the same length.
Also, there is more to it than just gas flow restriction. There are shock waves that travel through the exhaust gas (like sound waves through air) and those shock waves have a positive and negative pressure aspect. The trick is to get a negative pressure wave front reflected back from the collector to the exhaust valve as it opens to help suck the gasses out. A huge amount of power is gained this way. (but only at a particular rev range). Similar waves are used on the inlet side as well. A positive pressure wave can actually help keep gasses in the cylinder before the valves have fully closed. Pipe lengths and valve timing go hand in hand.
Also, on the springs. The thing about the rear coil overs is that they coil over 'dampers' so it wasn't a fair comparison. Where were the dampers for the front suspension? Presumably they would still be a piston through oil, like the rear ones so they would take up space too.
Also, a coil spring is actually a torsion spring too. It is just wound in a coil. It is still a twisting motion on the actual spring material.
How does that work when the ends of a coil spring are free to rotate around their axis?
@@phamnuwen9442
Good observation.
Still it is a twisting motion on the spring that is the primary spring force if you think about it. Each turn of the coil actual prevents the the ends being free as you say.
Just as if you bend the ends of a torsion bar 90 degrees to stop it twisting, the coil provides that function over the length of the spring wire.
The alternate to it being torsion forces are bending forces like big flat leaf springs and while there may be a bit of that it is primarily a twisting motion providing the spring.
So, it is the coil itself that prevents the rotation around the axis. Although I wouldn't be surprised if there was a tiny residual twist at the ends.
@@Igbon5 While I'm sure there is some twisting motion going on in a coil spring, I don't think that means it makes sense to call it a torsion spring. The way the suspension utilizes the different spring types is clearly quite different. Coil springs work by being compressed and torsion springs are twisted.
@@phamnuwen9442
Coil springs appear to work by compression but they don't. Compression springs are something like a rubber ball or block, or a an amount of air in a container which can be compressed. The spring metal in a coil spring is not being compressed it is being twisted.
@@Igbon5 I think you're not seeing the forest for the trees here. A coil spring is used in compression by the system it's mounted in regardless if there is some twisting motion is happening inside the spring itself.
A coil spring inside a compressive suspension could be replaced by a solid block of rubber or an air cylinder.
You could not replace any of these things with a torsion spring unless you changed the suspension system to one that uses torsion.
That B200 is meticulously maintained. Props to Papa Mansell for keeping it so pristine. That Judd engine was a surprise.
When they were talking about headers all the subi guys are like "but, but, rumble"
That "rumble" at 16,000 RPM would just be a horrid shriek !
Oompa loompa Oompa loompa. So glad they fixed the horrible misfire sound of the headers in later models
Liked this video 3 times. The first time happened automatically due to the good nature of the video, the second happened by accident at the end of the video, somehow I forgot I had already liked. And then the third time to actually leave it liked. This is what happens the content is so good, you forget you already like the video and tries to like it one more time.
Technically Torsion springs are still springs, and regular cars also use them.
Regular cars do not use torsion springs for primary suspension function as is described here, although anti-roll bars are torsion springs.
@@nikolaihedler8883My Dodge has torsion bar springs.
@@russellgillick7637 I should be more specific: almost all regular cars do not use torsion spring suspension.
@@nikolaihedler8883 Torsion bars are more common than you would think but yes, coil and leaf springs are more common on road cars. But you'd be surprised how many old pickups are still on american highways with torsion bars up front, leafs in the back.
@@johnsmith1474 Early VW Beetle early Pajero Front end.
your dad's lovely to listen to! would love to see more of him explaining things!!!
Short answer: *They cost more than your Civic’s exhaust.*
Much love, your friends at Rev Media!!
At 4:25 the son says, "If they were the same lengths they wouldn't come out, they'd all bang together."
Wrong! They are all the same lengths. The pistons fire at different times and the exhaust pulses travel the same distances to arrive at the collector at different times. The pulses don't bang together. The pipes that start closer to the collector need to be curved to be the same length as from the farthest cylinder.
i wish i had a father like him, if i had a father like him, i would stay with him all the time
Wow! This video is a superb answer to a question most rookie F1 fans have! Thanks a lot!
The coil spring had a dampener. Do torsion bars need them too? I thought road going production cars with torsion bars still had a shock absorber.
Yes, there are dampers that you couldn't see behind the bodywork.
@@19minorthreat69 Cool, thanks. :)
A lot more in this video than just the torsion bar. Great stuff!
Technically, the torsion bar is a spring. It is not in the sense of how a spring commonly looks like.
The torsion bar deforms elastically and when the workload doesn't exceed the yielding stress of the torsion bar, the bar springs back to the original shape. This is fundamentally how things (any springs) deform.
Edited: Shout out to my student Ben W if you are out there, make sure to let your cousin know that I'm so happy that you guys are getting married. -- Prof. Obvious
Thx Mansell Motorsports, many questions you answered that Ive had forever!
Funny how you were talking the pipes have different lengths and your dad immediately said they are equal length. Great video, great content, really interesting, but you need to rehearse the videos.
You misunderstood Peter :D (edit: and gone is Peter's comment)
3:46 Cleary says 'equal length'
The idea after it is that the flow stays constant. The previous exhaust cycle helps pulling the next one out this way.
Super fascinating!! I always wondered why the exhaust pipes were so oddly shaped. I also had no idea the rear suspension was mounted on the gearbox! That makes formula 1 cars even more incredible!
Been like that for years. Even back when most of the teams used Hewland transaxles (quite often n conjunction with a Ford DFV engine) the suspension was bolted to it. That was from the 1980's.
Re: title and thumbnail, those ARE springs - torsion springs - technically, a coil spring is also a torsion spring and works in exactly the same way.
Nope. The coils don't twist, they're flexed sideways at any point along the coil, as the whole is compressed. Any rotation observed is due to the sideways movement being expressed along the coil, it's an optical thing, not the actual moment of change.
@@pgl058 a single strand is a coil, a helix is two or more strands interwoven.
@@PiDsPagePrototypes Nope, as you used "moment", that suggests some engineering training, so perhaps you review their working principles - with an emphasis on how to calculate their rates compared to torsion springs?
@@gordowg1wg145 close, Physics, then media.
@@PiDsPagePrototypes This is just as wrong as your first comment. Helix is a corkscrew shape you are thinking of DNA which is a DOUBLE helix. It's so easy with the internet to fact check yourself. A coil is like when you wind the hose up, helix is more accurate.
Wow. Amazing to see this up-close and explained this way. Thanks!
It's still a spring - what you mean is a COIL SPRING.
I was scratching my head about the title saying no spring and the pic is a torsion spring. Sprung steel is sprung steel no matter what the shape is. With that logic leaf springs aren’t springs either.
True!
And from my mechanical engineering background... torsion and spring actually “work” the same way locally. In flexion.
This is a bit counterintuitive the first time though. 😅
this video was excellent and shoutout to Big Kev, he was great.
"Why F1 Suspension Doesn't Use Springs!"
Same reason vintage VW Beetles don't use springs. Torsions bars are very compact.
Likewise with many battle tanks. This guy is inserting a massive torsion spring, one of 12 in a restored WWII Tiger: blog.tiger-tank.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/2-5-4550-E5.jpg
And many Peugeots! And Alfa’s... Loads of great handling light cars in general.
I think the main reason they’ve fallen out of favour is due to the increased weight of newer cars, even on light old cars like 205 they’d settle and need the height adjusting over time.
Also if they break while a cars under warranty, it’s a lot harder to extract than a broken coil spring on a strut or a rear beam.
You mean Tatra didn't use it because Beattle is just a C/P
The sixtys Dodge Darts used torsion springs on the from suspension. Provided more room in the engine compartment.
That WAS the original title. They've now added the word "coil" lmao
Ist class video, great insight to some of the workings and put so simple to understand 👍
dope
We used to call the exhausts...extractors...due to each pulse acting like a scavenger which helped pull along the next pulse to reach the collector. Nice workshop. Thanks for a great video from little Kev.
Thank you fir taking the time. Very informative.
What a fantastic video. I've been an F1 fan for years and I've learned so much from this video. Thanks Scott.
Would be cool if you'd introduce a topic and then let your dad just run with it a bit. I know that we all appreciate your dad being cool with taking time out of his work to answer your/our questions. Now I also know why you love F1 so much. Looking at that Benetton in your dad's shop turns me green with envy. As a retired heavy line mechanic, I can tell you. I sure wish I had opportunities to work on that type of car just once in a while. Your dad's cool mate. Buy him a pint from me!!!!!
Amazing stuff...The torsion bars going from an already small bar, to a rediculously small one...No limits. And so many ideas make it to road cars. Im old enough to remember when over head camshafts, and fuel injection was radical stuff. Stone age, i am.
Aw man, Kevin's got the best accent in the world. I could listen to him ramble on for days. 😁
Your dads good at explaining complicated concepts in the cars. He must be proud of his son!
Very cool seeing the suspension geometry and headers close up, awesome video. Love how they manage to get such a tiny torsion bar to take all that stress.
Front is so much lighter than the back end.. besides, it helps if you have an infinite amount of money and enough titanium! Ha ha ha
What an interesting video. As the saying goes you learn something every day and I certainly did with this video.
So I take it that the engine in the Benetton is not from the original engine supplier.
I read that the Red Bull mechanics have difficulty working on Adrian’s cars as he does not consider that part when designing them.
Title: “why don’t f1 cars use coil springs?“
Literally the fist thing you see at 0:07
this whole video was packaged in a clickbaity way. didnt even answer the question at the end about why they put the springs on the gearbox, its to keep the weight as close to center of mass as possible.
Just amazing to see the technology and quality in a car 20 years old.
With the right driver and tyres this car could still most likely win.
09:53 RB overheating problem came also with the KERS batteries in 2011. Optimising weight distribution and centre of gravity, therefore balance (of the car) Adrian Newey required his team to place KERS batteries in a special way.
This video was mind blowing. Thank you so much