Double Wishbone vs Macpherson - Pros and Cons of Each Suspension
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- Опубликовано: 14 июн 2024
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When it comes to automotive suspension systems, the most common suspension architectures are double wishbone and MacPherson suspension. Each system has advantages and disadvantages.
Timecode:
00:00:00 - Short intro
00:00:28 - Double Wishbone Suspension Pros
00:01:26 - Double Wishbone Suspension Cons
00:02:13 - MacPherson Strut Suspension Pros
00:03:16 - MacPherson Strut Suspension Cons
00:04:18 - Conclusion 
Авто/Мото
McPherson for manufacturer and double wishbone for customer.
I’d go double wishbone suspension over McPherson any day.
I have both
Sorry but this info is blatantly wrong. Double wishbone does not have "dynamic camber changes mid corner", that's camber gain, and that's literally what macpherson struts do and double wishbone was designed not to do. 0/10 effort
Not totally correct, most double wishbone systems are also designed to gain camber upon compression by using shorter upper wishbones and longer lower wishbones. Camber gain can be more precisely designed by varying suspension geometry compared to a simple strut system.
No they, double a arms, technically don't gain positive camber like a McPherson strut does. Mcpherson struts tend to gain positive camber and roll over to the outside edge of the tire tread especially on the outside tire in a corner. That's something I liked about the 1990s Thunderbirds and even the front wheel drive Honda accords in similar years. They were four wheel independent suspension without those stupid McPherson struts. They kept the tires flat and planted to the road. Upper and lower A frames or wishbone types go more negative camber on the outside tire which is desirable to keep it flat and planted to the road.
And upper & lower A frames tend to gain positive camber on the inside tire in a corner, which is also desirable. Where a McPherson again doesn't. They always react exactly opposite of what would be ideal. That's why I say they're cheaper and easier to build and work just good enough for Joe schmoe, that's all. Nothing to be seen here....😅
Camber gain can be designed in on both it is important countering the effect of body roll and tyre tuck when cornering. On strut suspension getting the roll centre , camber gain, roll steer where the designer wants is more challenging.
@@andrewwmacfadyen6958 not much gain on P strut, other than what its set at. if you mean positive camber, usually positive isn't desirable. Take a look at the amount of negative camber F1 cars run especially in the front. The only race cars that use (pogo stick) macpherson strut suspension is possibly world rally cars, but I'm not 100% sure on that and probably some SCCA stock class type stuff in this country. If it was so great why doesn't F1, Indy car, Nascar, IMSA, etc. use it. Even dirt track cars don't use it.
It works good on front wheel drive street platforms because it doesn't take up much lateral room in the engine compartment. And its cheaper to build and works good enough for the average drivers.
Maybe talk a little more about the more technical aspects of each. For instance, roll centers, instant centers, camber gain...that sort of thing. It would also be interesting to compare something like a modern Porsche 911 front suspension (last I remember they used struts) and an economy car...maybe like a Corolla, just to see how much and where they differ and if a Porsche really has that much difference in that type of design over a "lesser" vehicle.
i wanted to see how camber changes during cornering or with changes to ride height. also he mentioned DWBs being more costly to maintain, failing to mention that maintenance is far less frequent than with McPs.
Fun fact, the Porsche 911 GT cars have double wishbone suspension while the non-GT 911's use McPherson strut suspension.
That's a unique scenario where the same model car has 2 different suspension configurations based on trim/designation
you're pronouncing mcpherson wrong
It’s text to speech
@@aaronsomeone5751 wouldnt be surprised if it was written and edited by ai aswell
You're spelling Macpherson wrong. Just sayin'.
At least it's not being pronounced McPheeerson, like a lot of people do for no obvious reason.
😅
2:20 picture is double wishbone while you are talking about McPherson suspension
it is incorrect to say that mcpherson produces more body roll since the wheels are interconnected. McPherson is a completely independent design. What really happens is that it has an arc shaped travel, changing camber depending on its position, but that only affects the contact patch and the wheel incidence on the ground, not the roll of the vehicle
It depends, on "true" McPherson design both sides are in fact interconnected, since the antiroll bar is also working as the second half of the lower "triangle" structure as it is connected directly on the control arm thus providing the second connexion point to the subframe, preventing movement in the longitudinal direction.
However most if not all cars use an evolution of this design (called "pseudo" McPherson) and it has been the case for, at the very least, 30 years. In this configuration there may or may not be an antiroll bar as the lower control arm is actually a "triangle" with 2 connexion point on the subframe.
I was just going to say the same thing! But you got to it first.
The weight isn’t really true. McPherson systems are inferior because the forces aren’t all aligned with the arms, so they introduce bending moments in the system. That requires having beefier parts in order to achieve the same rigidity as a double wishbone, so that means more mass. So this pretty much equals the extra components in the DW system
Macpherson is ubiquitous for one reason - cost.
Also space which is why they are used on all or almost all transversely mounted engine/gearbox FWD cars.
Longtitudinal mounted engine FWD cars usually have more room around the sides which allows double wishbones as the better option.
@@zahimiibrahim3602 Except for Honda. OK, back in the 90's. Transversely mounted engine/gearbox FWD cars such the Civic and Integra ran double wishbones. They dropped this setup in the early 00's. Cost and ease of maintenance.
Exactly! the Accord as well. One thing I always liked about the Hondas.
I find they age better. Double-wishbone can get pretty bad when the bushings wear out. MacPherson suspensions are way more tolerant of worn bushings.
@@joels7605 yeah, well they only have a bottom A frame so. But the McPherson top strut mounts go to hell too so there's that.
My Alfa 156 has double wishbone and she handles great, one big advantage of double wishbone is that the wheel is always perpendicular to the road surface, thus maximising the contact patch, whereas the McPherson moves in an arc, the inside wheel in a curve has minimum contact.
Depends on the shape of the lower arm. With a correct arm length thé arc also negates the effect of the body roll.
Some of his strut pics are actually pics of double wishbone suspensions, just with a strut like shock spring tower
my car has the double wishbone, and it's exactly what you said this is pretty stable especialy in corners
MacPherson: muhk·fur·suhn
Mick-fur-son or mack-fur-son is generally what I've heard. I've heard mack-fear-son before, but very uncommon.
MacPherson is a common last name around here and they all say it "mick-fur-son."
MacFearson sounds weird - the people saying that way use the ‘er’ phoneme correctly in any other word though - strange
One other thing that is not discussed is the need to reduce the scrub radius for Front Wheel Drive use. This is more easily achieved if the upper wishbone outer ball joint is located above the wheel. Cannot do that with Macpherson.
There is a system used on high-power Ford front wheel drive cars. They have a modified McPherson strut, with the steering pivoting independently of the strut. It is particularly beneficial on powerful front drive cars.
Error: at 2:40 You show a double wishbone suspension which happens to use a Macpherson strut for the spring element, a blend of the two systems. But you call it a Macpherson.
Upper and lower control arms suspension. It's been tried and true time tested over decades. Also used with torsion bar as well as coil springs. I also prefer rear wheel drive. McPherson Struts enabled transverse engine front wheel drive in cars, for space. Not a fan of all that. I have no choices either selecting a sedan this day and time.
Porsche has been sticking to multiple link McPherson on the front for decades as well as bmw and mercedes, for a good reason.
The standard McPherson is what you said but the ML version of it is the way to go.
Body roll can be fixed by well engineered sway bars.
Have you tried the E60 with the hydraulic sway bar?
The addition of additional components
I seriously laughed out loud on that one. XD
I had a car with McPherson struts, and I thought they were just cheaping out...tying into the shock like that!
I would claim that 4 times out of 5 MacPherson is heavier than a proper dwb - or even 9/10.
One of the worst features of MacPherson is that when lowering a car the roll centers fall 2.5 to 3 times as much as the lowering of the car and then you need a stiffer AR-bar which is ok for a track car but road tuned cars do not like excessive warp-stiffness. Also MacPherson tends to loose camber gain quickly when dropped. Further more MacPherson has a lot more friction as the dbw.
And yet, most cars with MacPherson handle still well. Also I think the big noise about Porsche GT3 having a dbw and being like "night and day" compared to the older MacP is pure marketing bs. When something is so good to begin with there is no way to make it "night and day" better. It certainly is a little bit better.
Why do the old 911s have MacPherson suspension? Or is it not exactly the same because it is torsion?
Like guy said. Packaging. You get a trunk.
.lol.
out of all the cars to have no excuse for having them.... what were the pros again? cost and packaging? it's an expensive sports car with the engine in the back.
as for having a trunk, my civic has a B18 between its double wishbones and a trunk in the back you could live in.
😂😂😂. Spot on!
Thanks I was always curious what the different suspension set ups were
I prefer double wishbone in all kind of cars the problem is only that most of my cars does have McPherson and are difficult to rebuild.
The Toyota Camry and Avalon used the best of both worlds in their double-wishbone MacPherson strut front ends.In late 1984 (2nd year of the Camry) one of the line workers was doodling on a paper towel at the dinner table, and figured he could eliminate about 50 parts and 60-70 pounds from the Camry's front end and make it BETTER. They STOPPED THE LINE and re-tooled the worker's design and he got $400,000 for the improvement. In 1985, the Camry got a 2.5L 163 HP V-6, which the original front end could have never handled. I owned the original 1983 1/2 FIRST production Camry LE. Then I drove the V-6. Night and day difference in ride and HANDLING. I ended up buying a gall-bladder surgery instead of a new car. I drove the '83 1/2 Camry 14 years and 330,000 miles, and sold it to a co-worker (at the time) and she's STILL driving it with 2.2 MILLION miles on it-engine and transaxle haven't been touched. BTW, an '88 3L V-6 Camry has the mileage record. 6.3 MILLION miles. BP gives him Castrol Syntec and maybe free BP fuel. I've seen the BP commercial with the car in it.
terima kasih pencerahannya...menambah wawasan dan pengetahuan saya..👍🙏
My MR2 has McPherson suspension.
Usually ok, but many vehicles were lost by snap oversteer, when the contact to the road suddenly gets lost.
My MR2 has MacPherson with multilink lower arm both front and rear, and its extremely stable under all circumstances.
😊🙏 Always wanted to know this ... Thank You So Much OBD Insight for this well presented tutorial on the difference , con & pro of Double-Wishbone or Macpherson Suspensions ... 🙏🌷🌿🌏✌💜🕊
How tf are the wheels of an axle with mcpherson suspension interconnected?
I have solid axles in my jeep jk and no steering or racing :)
How about leaf springs? Can you explain on video, pros and cons
Those are the absolute worst in road handling and damping but can however take a lot of weight with almost no maintenance needed (hence used on heavy vehicles) and cheap.
Informative. Thanks. ❤
Double is my best.
What is a Macrson strut suspension?
At least 2 of the systems pictured are hybrid between Double wishbone and Mcpherson strut.
Double wishbones are costly for the consumer too. They need replacement every 4-5 years
I have a 27 yo car that still has the original wishbones. I'm taking it to the track this weekend.
@3:58 he speaks about MacPherson but shows q Double WishBones front suspension architecture.
Rear suspension at 2:24 has double wishbone.?
Mazda miata has double wishbone front and rear
So do the 90's Civic sedans!
My ALFA 156 has DW - suspension on it and it lets you everything you want on the road.
At 0:53 he says " double wishbone suspensions allow the rear to toe in". Unless you have four-wheel steering, I don't you think you have a steering knuckle on your rear tires. Is this computer generated text and voice?
My rear MacPherson strut also allows for a toe in settings.
@@pavelslama5543 OK, my mistake sorry I was responding to the video which appears to show it connected to a rack. At least that was how it looked. I should have been specific. You are correct, you can adjust toe but I suspect your toe adjustment doesn't have such a rack connection.
I always fall for that. I recall my driver's test 43 years ago and I answered according to the picture, not the words. I never learn....
You didn't mention braking! This is where Macpherson struts fall over, forming the top suspension link they can have stiction introduced under heavy braking, affecting operation and movement. Double wishbone completely eliminates this.
mackfersun? Do you mean MacPherson? The name comes from American automotive engineer Earle S. MacPherson, who invented and developed the design. Wikipedia
I believe the double wishbone suspension was developed by a British car engineer in 1905 by the name of Fortescue Double - Wishbone. Sadly he died in a freak wheelbarrow accident soon afterwards before he had a chance to patent it.
I have learnt a new word today.
Some company tried to sue GM for using McPherson strut.GM.said you mean one named after GM engineer McPherson.
Ford UK were the first to use McPherson suspension in 1950, McPherson himself had moved to Ford in the late 40s, maybe it was Ford who tried to sue.
Thanks...👍
Double Wishbone Handles Way Better than Macpherson struts
My choice is Double Wishbone
Они ещё, к тому же лучше гасят колебания. Только требуют большего внимания для шаровых опор, так как их там две: нижняя и верхняя. А в стойке Макферсон лишь одна- нижняя.
Nice
McPherson for me all day, because of my country's bad roads. Double wishbone maintenance costs just aren't worth the advantages.
Lot of people complaining about the AI content of this video. That's not allowed as AI is infallible.
Double wishbone keeps tyre more perpendicular to the road - so better...
Jesus christ so many English teachers around
christ should be Christ.
LOL
This is a crappy AI voice and script video. That's why there are so many lies in this video and people correcting it. Block this channel.
@@Moondoggy1941 and jesus should be hei-sus
@@j_zales1390 lol if we where living in the same neighborhood i would have smashed your face mate
@@j_zales1390 do you mean Mexican Jesus? 😁
Scooby. I see now.
In late eighties, announcing 1987 lebarons, here called phantoms, they mentioned McPherson front suspension as somewhat "high tech"
High tech Porsche used torsion bar suspension on the 911 until 1989.
😂 i can name one best handling sportscar out right now is on MacPherson.
Which is literally known for weird decisions they manage to make work and oh boy do they work!
I could have stopped when I heard Mak Fur sons. Nice drawings though.
I don't care how good the video is, if it's any kind of AI speech, I'm gone.
Jag XE has front double wishbone Porsche doesn’t😂
This video is pretty much incorrect..
struts take up more space and higher up in the engine compartment. also, the amount of material needed to hold the strut secure adds weight, and takes space. struts make for heavy large 1 peice body (unibody) designs, where a arms use a (frame) where body panels are replaceable, and not part of the structure.
These will be the good old days back when computers couldn’t pronounce some words . Let me get a little 🖕in while I can to the future ai leeder of our world 😊
Honda’s double wishbone
I dumped a Toyota Tacoma because snow chains won’t fit on the front wheels. The Tacoma uses McPherson struts which have no business on trucks.
Honda, bring back the bones.
There are virtually no cons of double wishbone for the user. Weight, "repair difficulty" and expense is essentially not even worth mentioning.
MacPherson benefits the manufacturer only, for the most part.
the wheels are not interconnected with Macpherson, they are independant!
The McPherson suspension is pure genius for its low cost to car manufacturers, who are all in for greater profits, but it is a cheap and fragile set up, not suitable for most real road conditions.
98% of people won't notice the difference. Why pay more in initial cost and maintenance? I really don't understand this logic.
Narration not matching illustration and wrong pronunciations - rest of the video probably shit too.
Why do it if not done right?
mac-FEAR-son strut
Multi-link is better than all for street use. Double wishbone for racing
no thanks, i'll stick with torsion bars instead
Torsion bars and McFerson aren't mutually exclusive.
Torsion bar is just the type of spring. That type of spring can be used with either double wishbone or McPherson.
@@russelloppenheimer3970 I know that, they are completely different suspension systems, but I prefer torsion bars over normal springs
There is no sports and powerful car with McPherson. Draw your own conclusions!
Ford UK used the McPherson strut in the 60s and 70s, lots of cortinas, escorts and capris went racing, and won.
Advantage of McPherson strut - cheap.
Advantage of double wishbone - everything else.
McPherson is the cheapest independent suspension system - that why it's used almost everywhere. 😅😅😅
It's pronounced Mac Phearson. NOT macferson
Isnt that just how i pronounce pherson lol
AI generated video
One would assume that you would try to get the pronounced ration right of McPherson before putting it on RUclips can we take anything seriously when you can’t even pronounce things right?
Double wishbone .
This ai generated bullshit is ridiculous...🤦
mac pherson, said mac fer son! same as Philippine...
Certainly Doublewishbone'd Car from China. 😅
The only advantage of mcpherson is lower costs for car makers, it has ZERO advantage for consumers.
It also takes less space.
And weight. But you’re almost certainly correct in believing that the cost is the prime motivation.
@gcolombelli Nonsense, torsion beam certainly takes more space. Done correctly, multi link takes less space. All this buzzwords, cheap, simpler, less maintenance and less space are bunch of nonsense said by manufacturers to silence customers.
@@ampm9771 yes, but the torsion beam takes more space in different places. Packaging McPherson is way simpler than double wishbone.
I agree with you and @melvynwoodman5787 that cost is the biggest factor for the widespread adoption of McPherson. Personally, I'd rather have double wishbone or multilink, they tend to offer better handling and more comfort, but they're only found on more expensive models and while multilink have advantages over double wishbone, their setup/maintenance is more complex.
As always with engineering, everything is about trade-offs.
if you think 'lower cost' isnt an advantage for consumers too i guess...
see you later. aligators
Struts suck. No matter how you tune them, by nature they give you bump steer
It’s pronounced Mac-fear-sun, not Macfur-sun.
Junk AI video with generic and often false info
Horrible AI narration. Turned it off after 7 seconds.
When Macpherson presented his new and cheap, to produce "suspension to GM executives.
They found it Too Cheap and Too poor to fit to their cars and Refused it outright.
Clearly Cheaper attitudes took over, decades later.
Mac Pherson suspension is and always has been substandard .
ONLY serious workaround 'fixes' has improved it.. Some.
Which is simply stupid as the fixes cost more than Not using it in the first place.
Porsche is a clear example of dogmatic German stubborness, they even hang their power trains out behind the rear axle
Audi similarly stuffs their entire drivetrain out ahead of the front axle.
Reality of 'German engineering' ended with the Launch of the last V2 rocket.
4:10 no need to shout mate lol
timestamp wrong 4:13
@@StanleyKubick1 🤐
mackfersen SKOL !
20% factual BS and 100% annoying text-to-voice bot
AI generated video it’s pure crap riddled with false claims and descriptions
AI speech is so annoying
The McPherson suspension is horrible,its worse in cars that have the setup on all the four wheels,this because it makes me carsick
If it's not Scottish it's crap!
Nice reference
It`s double A-lever suspension, not some idiotic wishbone!
Very informative but why are you shouting!
Struts are junk I hate even working on them !!