I'm an aircraft mechanic. This issue was solved years many years ago. If you are going to torque something that size to only 6lbs, you use a cotter pin.
@@pcspecialistpdx First you would never torque something to 6 ft lbs., you would use inch pounds. If aircraft fasteners lost pre-load you would have planes crashing every minute.
I always use nyloc nuts that are then spot welded in place after a hole is drilled to use a cotter pin retainer and three drops of loctite, but not before I grind off the remainder of the bolt to then peen down around the nut like a rivet, after which I seal the whole apparatus with duct tape for water resistance. I have trust issues.
6 ft lbs for a bolt that size is very low. You have solved a problem that is not a problem. In 60 years of working on cars, trucks, tractors and other mechanical objects, I have never found a properly torqued nut, bolt and washer to vibrate loose. You could use a nylon nut every time but you would be wasting money. Manufacturers go to great lengths to specify torque and the size and combination of combination of nut, bolt and washer for the application. It's only when we change that that we get in trouble.
Yep, I was thinking the same thing, like how do you test a bolt that's basically not even tight to begin with? Of course it would vibrate itself off. The nylon bolt has a lot of friction holding it in place even when it's not tight, not even a fair comparison between the two. And if he's really worried about a high vibration application then they make special locking washers and bolts, but highly unnecessary for regular mechanical usage. You can also use a wire/cutter pin setup that will most certainly prevent a bolt from coming lose. Just learn the basics and save yourself the headache of doing unnecessary testing that's been tested by the industry many many times over the last couple of centuries of mechanics.
... That's the whole point. To find the difference in the comparison you subject them to a extreme torture test. For a lock washer or lock nut, the best test is how well they can secure a bolt that is barely tight. If the bolt was tightened down strongly, we would learn nothing.
My wife just snuck up on me to see what I was watching on RUclips. She thought she was going to catch me doing something dirty! Holy cow was she disappointed. And Holy cow did I get lucky today! 😂
I liked your experiment and have asked myself this question many times. I am retired from 17 years of auto mechanics having switched careers. Bolts have torque ratings that vary under circumstances like 'dry' torque rating and 'wet' torque rating. Plus, nylocs add their own resistance to the torque value so your 6 ft/lb was actually a little different for the two types. IMO, your results are interesting but only suggestive. It would be useful to repeat the experiment torquing the bolts to their proper values according to the manufacturer's specs and see how things play out that way. To me, the main benefit of a nyloc is that they resist turning AFTER they get loose - an excellent safety feature for critical assemblies.
Also the Nyloc can’t be used multiple times as they wear out. Lock washer is good if you ever want to remove the fastener. This was very good. Thank you!
CAT/Cummins Field Engineer here. I can tell you that during failure analysis investigations, EVERY split lock washer that you view under a microscope is cracked in multiple places. Our rule of thumb is split lock washers are for sheet metal.
Metal self locking nuts are pricy but are more ideal. A plain nut/washer and torquing for bolt stretch, where the bolt is the spring under normal loads, works well for high stress and vibration (crank rods). Splitwashers work well in electrical applications because they maintain preload under thermal expansion and have low torque requirements. Nylocks work well where the environment is controlled and the nylon won't degrade under normal service. I dislike splitwashers simply because they get lost in the pile of hardware required to assemble or service.
This is classic RUclips - a guy trying out different stuff to see the results. Love it. And I learnt something. The comments here are educational on split washers...
Huh? So what did you do with the sump plug? Different applications require different solutions. It really annoys me when somebody says "The only way is..." Engineering is full of multiple solutions to similar requirements, and each application should be assessed according to the situational needs of the union.Rear axle bolts and rear brake torque arms obviously need a castellated nut and cotter pin or split/R pin, but there are so many nuts and bolts on a bike that I wouldn't think that you would normally only use castellated nuts and cotters. What, even on the fairing brackets?
Your torque value for a 3/8" bolt was ridiculously low. Depending upon your grade of bolt and thread pitch, 15-20 ft-lb would be possible. Also, typically the running torque of the nyloc nut would be added to the bolt torque to maintain the same axial preload intended.
Came her to say this - I'm no fan of split coil washers (I think they are called spring washers in the UK) but you could see it wasn't even clamped up.
@@HacksbyDad Why not test this again using a combination of Nylock + Split Washer, Nylock + Threadlocker, Split Washer + Threadlocker, and Threadlocker + Nylock + Splitwasher? Wouldn't this be the ultimate?
Thanks for the interesting experiment! Here's the thing, 6 ft/lbs is too low a torque for a 3/8" course thread nut. The torque for grade 5 is 23 ft/lbs and grade 8 44 ft/lbs, over four time what you torqued it to. Even though the split washer dug into the bolt and nut it isn't right. Lock washers are designed for specific torques. The nylog would have also very likely had a different outcome, you might want to retest both. My rule is that I do use Nylog except in high heat conditions.
Agree with the too low torque for a 3/8. Also, the torquing was not apples to apples for split lock vs a nylock. The nylock has a running torque, the resistance or force to rotate the nut until seated down on the washer. You have to measure the running torque of the nylock while rotating before seated down on the washer and add this running torque to the 6 ft/lbs.
He also failed to account for running torque. Below 3/4" fastener size (male thread size, not female/nut wrench size), running torque of self-locking/nylock fasteners (the torque required to turn the fastener after the self-locking insert is fully engaged on the threads) accounts for a significant amount of the total torque applied, which will have a significant affect on the fastener's ability to hold the joint. It's probably only 1-2 ft-lbs at that size, but that's still 16-33% of the total applied torque.
Under severe vibration, the assembly would incorporate a locking device to ensure the bolt didn't back off. A cotter pin, safety wire, or application of a Locktite product, for example.
I worked for a foundry molding machine supplier from 2005 until 2015. I started working on those machine from 1990 until 2024. They rarely used lockwashers and then under very specific conditions. They labeled lock washers as loosening devices They relied on proper torque specs. I could count on one hand how many times a properly torqued bolt or nut worked loose. This was true from M5 to M30 sizes. This was my experience for almost 34 years.
Thank you for this video. I install solar and electronics in RV's, which are sarcastically known as rolling earthquakes. Because of the vibration I use a Nyloc nut where appropriate to ensure that whatever I'm fastening stays fastened. The more permanent solutions like cotter pins and wires are overkill for my situation. The comments are excellent and show that there's a lot of knowledge out there. A Part II test would be great! Add to the test higher torque, blue and red Loctite and a double nut.
6 ft P is ~8nm, when the required torque is: M6 Bolt (8.8 Grade)Torque: 9-10 NM M8 Bolt (8.8 Grade)Torque: 22-25 NM M10 Bolt (8.8 Grade)Torque: 44-49 Nm
Thanks! Increasing the torque to proper specs for higher grade fasteners will show that plain nuts will hold on their own… lock washers or lock nuts won’t be needed. That’s a future video. 👍😎
@@HacksbyDad I disagree with that based on decades working in industrial and power plants. Real world conditions are much harsher than your simple test rig.
Now, run the test again with proper torque for the bolt size and grade. 6 ft/lb is way too low. The split nut depends on compression to dig in. The nylon lock nut depends only on friction on the threads, so torque is immaterial to the nylon nut.
This depends on the use case! Not every bolt is fastened to the rated max torque. There are tons of applications where the torque is limited. For example when you fasten axial bearings. Or of a partially threaded bolt works as an axis like in the rear axle of a motorbike. In this cases you need to secure the nut anyways. And this is a good example of it. Fully loaded bolts have less need for a lock
Haters do not deserve internet access. We all just watched a very good thing take place. Something more people should carry the desire to do in life. Scientific method of discovery being applied and carried out is always good. If an experiment can be improved upon, by all means offer suggestions. But do not disregard the effort. After all, information was obtained from the effort. Testable information with repeatable results. That's called success.
@@lollipop84858 As I stated, haters do not deserve internet access. Nice of you to make the effort to reinforce the statement. Doing so while actively missing the entire point calls into question your opinion, but thanks for "participating".
Every fastner has its place in its application. I have worked on both vehicles and small engines all my life. I can tell you the true winner is using locktite. I have never had locktite fail.
@@dogwalker666 use the correct loctite, blue gel is perfect for most low heat applications, then you have your high heat blue medium strength, then you have your reds. If you use a red thats on you, that stuff is "Im not planning on removing that and it really shouldnt come off under use because that would be catastrophic". Some reds you can remove by heating with a torch, though you cant always do that with the part/location.
@@BigChiefWiggles I know I have the chart on the wall, You missed the point, Other people including machine manufacturers use thread lock not just locktite, And it can make maintenance an absolute nightmare.
There is a version for high heat. I used it where I needed to fasten the cylinder head of a moped, because the gasket was burned, but could not use cylinder head screws. I had to secure threaded bolts to the cylinder, ease the cylinder head on the four bolts and fasten them with screw nuts. Else I would have to remove the complete motor. The loctite never failed, the bolts never went loose in the hot motor.
This testing procedure itself is clever, effective, easily reproducable and could probably be standardized with some sizing and movement definitions. Thank you for sharing it.
This guy is great! Actual quality, objective, and controlled testing with measured analysis. Great job. This is the best testing video I have seen. Really. I worked as a test engineer for Martin Marietta's Denver Astronautics Group, I have experience in this area.
@@HacksbyDad Ya, hilarious; finally someone who gets why I read encyclopedias, the bible and other classics … for the jokes /pure sarcasm in case too … (I’ll leave it to you to throw shade)
Absolutely pointless. Split washers aren't even meant for ridgid assemblies. If you're REALLY concerned about loosening you design for cyclic loading with proper fasteners (place bolts) properly torqued. Look at anything from a drive line clutch, to a locomotive or rock crusher and that's all you'll find. Like was said, if you want to keep the wheels on your kids bike use a nylon, but they can't stand heat or solvents.
@@jimurrata6785 all your examples use some form of thread lock, not saying I know better, just it'd be 1 less counter-argument a person could make if you work around it.
I bought a bike trailer that had split lock washers on the wheels. I started cycling with tools in my backpack. Then I bought some nyloc bolts and put two on each wheel. Been 4 years and no issues since then
I really appreciate this content. Very helpful and informative. As I have had issues with the metal lock washers, I have now replaced with nylon lock nuts. You have saved me valuable money in replacement parts.
According to NASA, when tightened fully (as would usually be done), a split “lock” washer no longer acts as a lock washer and shouldn’t be used as one.
Would also be interesting to see the difference between the various Loctite type (actual Loctite, not the imitations). I am also curious how serrated lock washers would compare, perhaps even internal vs external. I prefer Nylocs for most applications in small sizes (4-40 to 10-32) when I don't have to repeatedly remove them. Fun video though. Even if it doesn't answer all the questions, it makes people think - and that is very important.
Also known as a spring washer and on my classic car I think I have found and removed everyone one of them. Nylock nuts or castle nuts with a split pin, or a liquid threadlocking solution are all better than the spring washer.
Yes they are. I've literally never seen a spring-washer in an aerospace application. If I did, I'd go through the modification process to get it removed and replaced with nylock nuts or castellated nuts.
For all the haters… If you are building a bridge, follow the plans If you are fixing your kids wagon, use a nyloc so the wheel won’t fall off 🤷♂️ That’s the whole point of this
Yes, try them and Schnorr also. Split washers are since long, not accepted as securing. Their spring force is much lower than the screw tension. Also try special nuts or the thread Spiralock.
Used nord-lock washer often in the past. It takes substantial effort to release them. It almost feels unreal when untightening. Nylock is my de facto solution
Nordlock are crazy, they claim 115% Bolt Torque to loosen. Can verify first hand they live up to that spec? 7:28 expensive yes, but able to withstand heavy vibration and heat.
Agree. For the test to be valid, all fasteners must be installed to spec., including torque. The plain nuts would indeed remain secure for a much longer time if proper thread elongation were achieved, as would the split lock washers, under proper compression. A test with much more severe vibration and much longer duration would be required to truly compare these fasteners under correct installation.
@@HacksbyDad I would be more curious about how close to the rec. tq. for a bolt you need to get for the lockwasher to start to function properly. At 1/5th the standard install torque on a fastener..... you haven't used the fastener properly and you CANNOT expect it to stay without using a nylon or crimped nut. If you cannot clamp your parts with something close to the standard spec for the fastener, then you need a high friction/pinned/etc nut.
This just confirmed my suspicion and why as a mechanic, I've personally chose to put THREAD LOCKER, on everything, even if it has a split lock washer, or nylon thread. Especially suspension, and steering components that see tons of vibrations. I have literally told friends to ask mechanics, "do y'all use thread locker on the suspension components?". If they say, "it doesn't need it", turn around and walk away and never come back. Don't even argue with them.
If you put thread locker on ball joints you are asking for trouble. Where do you work on steering components that don't have castle nuts and cotter keys? I don't think you have any mechanical sense at all. I would run from you.
The nylocks aren't spinning relative to the bolt, which means the loss of clamping strength is probably due to the bolt stretching from the dynamic forces of your test setup.
I noticed the same point about the nylock's. I wondered if there were burrs from the split ring washers left on the shouldered bushings that were worn down by the action. Stretching of the 3/8 bolts seemed less likely to me but I don't know. There are significant accel's in the reversing action so forces can be high. I also wondered if the original torque was sufficient. I was surprised to see the torque for ASTM A307 galvanized and waxed bolt is 6 lb. For non waxed it is 15lb. Other grades increase torque spec. The comment from a CAT/Cummins engineer was very interesting. They don't use split washers.
I wonder if stainless steel fasteners would fare differently due to their tendency for the threads to meld into each other (I forget the specific term for this).
interesting test! For auto and home use, where removal is not a concern, I far prefer nylocks. They always stay tight and you won't loose a nut even if it loosens. Less likely to rust onto the threads as well. For high vibration, but need for removal, I like double nuts or split washer. Auto battery mounting bracket, for example. Nylocks are a pain to remove off long threaded bolts because they will never spin For a high vibration area like a washing machine, I would ideally use a nylock. Even if it loosens, you won't lose the nut, and potential disassembly of whatever is held together and it won't gall the mounting surface. Your test surprised me though. It does bring up a good issue of re-using nylocks or split washers. Less common, there are serrated nuts as well.
All the nuts and bolts we use are stainless so rust is never a problem, Nylock can fail because chemicals can melt the nylon, They are also a single use item, Spring washers are far more robust, Especially in harsh environments.
You showed the results that I would have expected. I would like to point out a particular type of application where a Kep nut (basically like a split lock in applications) failed and was let loose inside a piece of electronic gear. The Kep nut and and screw held a lanyard that held a cap for an Amphenol connector. It wasn't vibrated a lot, but there was a lot of tugging on it from side to side. The nut not only loosened, but came off. I recommended it be replaced by a Nylock so if the nut/screw did loosen, the nut would still be captivated.
Good test. Very educational for use with anyone new to torque specs, how various fasteners work, and why we use locking fasteners-with proper torque-for specific applications. Aside from the "Already solved this" comments, which have applicable information, this was well done and useful
Your videos are instructive. However, whether the nut fell off or not, all of the fasteners loosened to some degree which is a failure. The same test with Lok-tite would be instructive as would be prevailing torque nuts. Also 6 ft lb is a very low torque for a 3/8-16 fastener. As you showed, lock washers should be avoided. Keep up the good work.
@@mlconley Thanks! My test is based on this test supposedly aerospace test... ruclips.net/video/6tR2JV4VZfA/видео.html I think mine is harsher on the impact side of things. 😎
I agree completely. Lost preload should be considered a failure, as should a fastener that has moved off scribe, and 6 ft-lbs is very low for a 3/8-16 fastener. Assuming that is a grade 5 fastener, a torque of 23 ft-lbs would be appropriate and I would expect it to maintain clamp load for much longer on the vibration test.
The split washer keeps the parts clamped even after the nut loosens a bit, and _some of them_ bite into the nut and part, stopping the nut from becoming loose, but if the nut loosens enough, it stops acting and the nut is free. The nylon locknut will resist from getting loose, but once it's loose, the parts lose clamping force, but the locknut will keep resisting. What we need is a locknut *_and_* a preloaded washer that *_always_* bites into the nut and part. That way, both the washer and nut will offer resistance, and if the nut comes loose, the washer will maintain clamping force for a while and the locknut will keep resisting.
Watched a rather long video years ago with similar tests on a larger rig. They found split washers useless, nuts on their own were better. They found the conical washers better as they retained their force under compression and I think the what they call aircraft nuts superior to standard. Quite interesting as a designer.
Very good video. Videos like these have always been of interest to me. Whether split lock washers, the spikey ones or nylon nuts. Very concise, love that you kept the name of the current test on the screen too, and that you had a series of controls, like the same torque specs etc.
Size for size, the nyloc is superior as it has a "grip" on the bolt thread all the time regardless of the torque applied or if the bolt stretches. The split lock washer relies on the sharp edge to bite into the nut and the fastening surface to stop the nut from loosening, however if the nut is loosened, the nut will eventually come off.
@@HacksbyDad The washers I’d say are used in more specialized areas. All washers / or package of washers would come with instructions how to use those plus the torque to be applied. I’ve used those washers is large two-stroke engines for ocean going vessels used to secure sensors and other monitoring equipment.
Lots of arm chair quarterback comments. Regardless of all the negitive comments, it still demonstrates what a nylon lock washer can accomplish over a split and no washer installed.
What are we actually testing, the spring washers purpose is to provide tension and preload however that's not what we are testing here. We can say that when a bolt and nut are loosely tightened then Nyon lock nuts will do a better job than a spring washer.
@@ghostofdre The nylon lock nut may or may not do a better job than a lock washer. This is a test of a specialty application with high stress. In the vast majority of applications lock washers will still do just fine. Another factor is that nylon lock nuts are only meant to use once because the first use of one has far more holding power than subsequent uses. They're also pricey compared to conventional nuts. When using enough of the nylon lock nuts that price will add up. But there's also a flaw in the testing in that it wasn't inclusive enough. Not once was thread locker mentioned. The advantage of it is significant. It's inexpensive. Additionally it helps with corrosion protection. And lastly it comes in grades of holding power. Those are things that neither lock washers nor nylon lock nuts can ever hope to do.
Thanks for the vid. I see some discussion about the recommended torque, but I don’t think home DIYers routine use torque wrenches. Thanks for avoiding annoying music and extraneous banter.
7:29 A bolt or screw is nothing but a spring and while I enjoyed the video and the effort involved, the bolts were not torqued enough. The little holes in the crush sleeves should not have been aligned either, in my opinion.
@@rayscrHe put that timestamp so that his comment will show up first for people who finished the video, since RUclips shows comments with your timestamp tagged. The tactic feels dishonest, personally.
My issue is that nylocs are only good for one use. I use split washers when I know I might be taking it apart and need them to put it back together. I use nylocs and or locktite for everything else.
Thanks! I chose 6 ft-lbs for a future test with Loctite threadlockers. On page 79 of the Loctite Threadlocker manual, it states that the breakloose torque is typically tested with the fastener seated to 5 Nm or 3.7 ft-lbs... dm.henkel-dam.com/is/content/henkel/LOCTITE-Threadlocker-Manual The minimum torque my torque adapter can measure is 5.9 ft-lbs so I chose 6 ft-lbs. I'm testing other locking devices at that same torque before testing Loctite red and blue. 👍😎
@@HacksbyDadfor 3\8 course bolt Fastenal recommends at least 23 ft-lb others recommended even higher especially for dry conditions. 6 ft-lb is too small for such big bolt. There is essentially no preload on it
@@ltaranovich9 agreed, it isnt just about digging into the metal, its about the compression of the washer as a spring that pushes the nut threads against the threads of the bolt. this is also why you have to use NEW lock washers each time after they were torqued to spec.
Interesting, and real world applicable-in the garden shed, by which I mean: the real world. So many aero engineers here getting their knickers in a twist, citing NASA usage. If you're building a fence, you'd use split washers and tighten it by hand. If you're building a billy cart,, you'd use Nylocs on the axles, and still tighten by hand. On my 1974 GT750 Suzuki, there are mostly nuts and bolts with split washers, one Nyloc nut, two castellated nuts with split pins, a couple of lock-wired nuts, and several nuts and bolts with foldable tab washers. All tightened to proper torque specs.
Been building things for many years, nyloc is the way to go unless you plan on cutting and peening the bolt. My favorite toy growing up was an Erector Set with the 120 motor. Good video. I hate lock washers as they bugger up the threads on both the bolt and nut. I would like to see how a double nut would have held up.
GREAT video! It got 154,000 views in 3 days! 600+ comments. So it stimulated a lot of folks to give thought to this subject and a lot of good comments were made. Thanks for this video.
I have repaired loosening garage door hinges with through bolts and nuts with split lock washers. They do still loosen occasionally. Looks like I need the nylocs.
Test isn't really good, none of those are designed to hold with 6ft lbs or torque. Use a proper torque spec and test again. Yes if you test something it's not designed to do, it will not do what it's designed to do...
He means a properly designed and assembled bolted joint won’t fail in this way. Lock washers and nylock washers are to prevent the joint from failing after preload is lost.
Not a true test. They are engineered to work under specific tension. This does not provide that. You are testing them out of spec. It’s like doing a wear test on car tires with 1/2 specified air pressure.
Thanks! Increasing the torque to proper specs for higher grade fasteners will show that plain nuts will hold on their own… lock washers or lock nuts won’t be needed. That’s a future video. 👍😎
@@HacksbyDad I think all bolted to spec I'd still expect the plain nut to come loose before the other two, in a similar but more severe vibration test.
You mean to say that a test by a DIY channel on RUclips didn't hold to the most rigorous testing standards? I'm shocked! I thought everything on the interwebs held to the highest standards of accuracy?!?
@@jaypie0864 if one is going to present themselves in a professional testing manner, others will give constructive feedback. Maybe you should get back to your legos
Always been a fan of nylon lock washers and Loctite adhesive for things I never want to come apart. I almost never use washers unless I'm trying to spread the load on the bolt on a softer material or prevent scratching damage to the surface of whatever I'm tightening.
I stopped using the split washers many years back when I almost lost a trailer when the nut got off the ball pin, thanks to the chains that kept the trailer hooked up to my Truck.
You kind of give away the ending since your jig is held together with nylocks :) Jokes aside, this is a great demo for people to understand how they differ.
@@HacksbyDad Yes, but you didn't want your jig to fly apart during testing, clearly you had all 3 in front of you, and you CHOSE the Nylocks. Trust me, we aren't picking on you, I would have used them too!
It's very interesting, what would you say if one of these methods is to use a thread locker for particularly vibration-loaded places, there are different fixations. For example, I use a medium one for a chainsaw??
@@willybbb999For my chainsaw I use blue thread lock strong for vibration-loaded areas; it is difficult to unscrew even with a key unless the saw is heated with a hair dryer or warmed up well after work.
It looks from the way the paint marks end up that in at least some of the tests, the initiation of failure occurs not due to rotation of the nut relative to the flange, but with rotation of the bolt relative to the whole assembly of nut-washer-flange which itself remains co-angular. It might be interesting to see whether adding another split washer between the head of the bolt and the other flange helps, but fundamentally the issue is insufficient clamping force to hold the joint together, ie not enough torque.
Great test, thank you! I chose metal locknut over Nylon locknut because of freezing and sun that may destroy nylon. It's basketball shield on a street.
Your test is severely flawed. 6 ft pounds is noting for torque. You needed to go to 20 ft pounds to get to the working clamping and design specs for a 3/8 bolt.
Looking at this experiment as the alignment marks on the nyloc nut and thread always seemed aligned each time the test was paused what was experienced was a fair amount of wear in the soft steel of the holding apparatus and not the movement of the nut on the thread.
Thanks for the test❤ i install a lot of speakers and horn speaker. I use a lot of nylon Nuts to prevent from getting lose and falling down. . Even if it is lose the nut will not fall off and still holding.the assembly.
This video was worth watching and corresponds to my experiences. I also learnt that split washers have an orientation, which I did not know until watching this video. Good to see a follow up video with them combined. As to the aircraft mechanic, I am horrified that he might be suggesting that aircraft use cotter pins, that have their own means of fatigue followed by catastrophic failure.
Great test, thanks for sharing! Indeed, this is not intended to replicate or demonstrate a high level of technicality, but a simple comparison under similar conditions of common locking mechanisms to delay the complete nut back off. For that, it serves the purpose. AND, it’s quite entertaining for those with curious minds. Well done, sir.
Thanks! I find it funny how many negative comments this simple video received from the many "experts" out there. Anyway... I'm working on another comparison with the same basic parameters. 👍😎
Nice scientific investigative comparison. Definitely we did learn from your effort. However I would like to inspire a retest, with the fastener torqued to a more typical value than only 6ft pounds, I think most of us even the most cautious of us without a torque wrench are getting closer to 20ft pounds on a 3/8" fastener. Enjoyed your video and thanks!
Split lock is for high temperature. Does it make sense to compare fasteners designed for different tasks? Check the core also when the plugged nut is inserted.
This was an interesting and useful video. Thanks for making such a detailed comparison. I upgraded a Segway Scooter with aftermarket suspension and needed to secure the rear wheel. The original bolts would not fit in the new suspension frame. I decided to go with Titanium flange metal lock nuts. These were expensive but have not budged in more than a year and over a thousand kilometres of riding.
It would be great to compare it with other possibilities to save the nut from loosen. Glue, or two nuts, or the stop washers with multiple stoppers....
Interesting, if you ever do follow up testing could you run the test with the double nut option 'jam nut'. You torque the first nut to something, probably more than 6 ft/lbs and then put the second nut on an torque that against the first to the same torque. Curious if that is equivalent to a single ny-lock or similar. Thank you.
Congratulations on a great video, and a well conducted test. As a mechanical engineer, these results are not surprising to me. The Nylok nut should in theory be better because it directly causes resistance (friction) between the nut and the bolt. The split washer does not provide direct resistance between the nut and the bolt - it causes resistance between the nut and the flange. One thing that I have always thought that would make the spilt washer more effective would be to place a second split washer under the head of the bolt. The split washer provides some resistance to prevent the nut from turning off the bolt, but does not prevent the bolt from turning out of the nut. It would be interesting to see a second set of tests with a second split washer underneath the bolt head.
a German metalworker, the following nut is missing from the test as a securing nut :Locking nut made of metal (without plastic). This locking nut has two compressions on one side, which deform the thread slightly at the end and, once tightened with the appropriate torque, cannot be loosened without damaging the bolt thread... there are also toothed washers and screw paint for securing.
In aviation, we used a thin wire through a hole in the nut that went around the bolt then to the next bolt. Kind of sewed together. This was the sheet metal on helicopters in the army.
Check out all of my Nuts and Bolts videos in this playlist... ruclips.net/p/PL_WcGw5s6Cq6YK_s-NNne1838j25ijmii
👍😎
I'm an aircraft mechanic. This issue was solved years many years ago.
If you are going to torque something that size to only 6lbs, you use a cotter pin.
Or safety wire
Safety wire is only for detecting movement of the bolt not for actually securing it@@williamhaggerson5490
Same. Castellated nut/cotter pin or safety wire to structure.
That isn't any better than the nylock. In both cases, the nut will not turn on the bolt but you still lose preload.
@@pcspecialistpdx First you would never torque something to 6 ft lbs., you would use inch pounds. If aircraft fasteners lost pre-load you would have planes crashing every minute.
I always use nyloc nuts that are then spot welded in place after a hole is drilled to use a cotter pin retainer and three drops of loctite, but not before I grind off the remainder of the bolt to then peen down around the nut like a rivet, after which I seal the whole apparatus with duct tape for water resistance.
I have trust issues.
👍😎
So you were the guy who worked on my Model T! XD
Spot welding a nut is nuts
They will invent a new method and you're in trouble, cannot add one more. :(
You might think that is clever but it is not. You now have a serviceability problem.
You've convinced me, I need a split washer AND a nylock nut
Good combination, If you are not going to unscrew, then you can use a very strong thread locker
Weld it 🤣
@@RickTrajan 🔩😅👍
And threadlocker
@@RickTrajan or rivet
6 ft lbs for a bolt that size is very low. You have solved a problem that is not a problem. In 60 years of working on cars, trucks, tractors and other mechanical objects, I have never found a properly torqued nut, bolt and washer to vibrate loose. You could use a nylon nut every time but you would be wasting money. Manufacturers go to great lengths to specify torque and the size and combination of combination of nut, bolt and washer for the application. It's only when we change that that we get in trouble.
Yep, I was thinking the same thing, like how do you test a bolt that's basically not even tight to begin with? Of course it would vibrate itself off. The nylon bolt has a lot of friction holding it in place even when it's not tight, not even a fair comparison between the two. And if he's really worried about a high vibration application then they make special locking washers and bolts, but highly unnecessary for regular mechanical usage. You can also use a wire/cutter pin setup that will most certainly prevent a bolt from coming lose. Just learn the basics and save yourself the headache of doing unnecessary testing that's been tested by the industry many many times over the last couple of centuries of mechanics.
... That's the whole point. To find the difference in the comparison you subject them to a extreme torture test. For a lock washer or lock nut, the best test is how well they can secure a bolt that is barely tight. If the bolt was tightened down strongly, we would learn nothing.
My wife just snuck up on me to see what I was watching on RUclips. She thought she was going to catch me doing something dirty! Holy cow was she disappointed. And Holy cow did I get lucky today! 😂
Fucking hell - same here!!😂😂😂😂 Gosh they're all the same!!!
Lucky break
@@Elk300 Bolts and nuts are an object of lust in your world? WOW!
@@Elk300 I was being facetious. Apparently my brand humour is not your style.
Now you gave her an idea!
I liked your experiment and have asked myself this question many times.
I am retired from 17 years of auto mechanics having switched careers. Bolts have torque ratings that vary under circumstances like 'dry' torque rating and 'wet' torque rating. Plus, nylocs add their own resistance to the torque value so your 6 ft/lb was actually a little different for the two types.
IMO, your results are interesting but only suggestive. It would be useful to repeat the experiment torquing the bolts to their proper values according to the manufacturer's specs and see how things play out that way.
To me, the main benefit of a nyloc is that they resist turning AFTER they get loose - an excellent safety feature for critical assemblies.
Also the Nyloc can’t be used multiple times as they wear out. Lock washer is good if you ever want to remove the fastener. This was very good. Thank you!
I would prefer using clamping force in addition to torque.
this
elliptical nuts. triangle nuts. nuts with collars. two nuts compressed together.
if he used proper torque, his experiments would last several days each.
CAT/Cummins Field Engineer here. I can tell you that during failure analysis investigations, EVERY split lock washer that you view under a microscope is cracked in multiple places. Our rule of thumb is split lock washers are for sheet metal.
Except for the ones so soft they will not bite into the nut or the bolted item.......... They probably never crack....
👍😎
Spring washers are for when you need too remove and re assemble, Nylock are not reusable.
what do you mean "for sheet metal"?
Metal self locking nuts are pricy but are more ideal. A plain nut/washer and torquing for bolt stretch, where the bolt is the spring under normal loads, works well for high stress and vibration (crank rods). Splitwashers work well in electrical applications because they maintain preload under thermal expansion and have low torque requirements. Nylocks work well where the environment is controlled and the nylon won't degrade under normal service. I dislike splitwashers simply because they get lost in the pile of hardware required to assemble or service.
This is classic RUclips - a guy trying out different stuff to see the results. Love it. And I learnt something. The comments here are educational on split washers...
Best to ask the people who made them.
@@dbaider9467 Yes! Welcome to the non-aspergers side of the aisle.
you learned nothing except finger tight bolts will come loose every time
Raced motorcycles in my younger days, the only totally secure nut and bolt combo is a drilled bolt with a castle nut and cotter pin.
Huh? So what did you do with the sump plug?
Different applications require different solutions.
It really annoys me when somebody says "The only way is..."
Engineering is full of multiple solutions to similar requirements, and each application should be assessed according to the situational needs of the union.Rear axle bolts and rear brake torque arms obviously need a castellated nut and cotter pin or split/R pin, but there are so many nuts and bolts on a bike that I wouldn't think that you would normally only use castellated nuts and cotters.
What, even on the fairing brackets?
Your torque value for a 3/8" bolt was ridiculously low. Depending upon your grade of bolt and thread pitch, 15-20 ft-lb would be possible. Also, typically the running torque of the nyloc nut would be added to the bolt torque to maintain the same axial preload intended.
absolutely.. silly test at 6 ft/lb
Came her to say this - I'm no fan of split coil washers (I think they are called spring washers in the UK) but you could see it wasn't even clamped up.
I love the channels where the creator does all the boring tests so we don't have to. So thank you...well played Dad😂
👍😎
@@HacksbyDad Why not test this again using a combination of Nylock + Split Washer, Nylock + Threadlocker, Split Washer + Threadlocker, and Threadlocker + Nylock + Splitwasher? Wouldn't this be the ultimate?
Thanks for the interesting experiment!
Here's the thing, 6 ft/lbs is too low a torque for a 3/8" course thread nut. The torque for grade 5 is 23 ft/lbs and grade 8 44 ft/lbs, over four time what you torqued it to. Even though the split washer dug into the bolt and nut it isn't right. Lock washers are designed for specific torques. The nylog would have also very likely had a different outcome, you might want to retest both.
My rule is that I do use Nylog except in high heat conditions.
Agree with the too low torque for a 3/8. Also, the torquing was not apples to apples for split lock vs a nylock. The nylock has a running torque, the resistance or force to rotate the nut until seated down on the washer. You have to measure the running torque of the nylock while rotating before seated down on the washer and add this running torque to the 6 ft/lbs.
Agreed. A retest at a higher tightened torque would be interesting. Still I subscribed so I'm obviously keen to learn more.
He also failed to account for running torque. Below 3/4" fastener size (male thread size, not female/nut wrench size), running torque of self-locking/nylock fasteners (the torque required to turn the fastener after the self-locking insert is fully engaged on the threads) accounts for a significant amount of the total torque applied, which will have a significant affect on the fastener's ability to hold the joint. It's probably only 1-2 ft-lbs at that size, but that's still 16-33% of the total applied torque.
I would add that even a grade 2 bolt should/could be torqued to 16 ft/lbs, more than double the torque in the tests (per my cursory Google search.)
Agree here. The torque value is extremely important in bolting/fixing.
Under severe vibration, the assembly would incorporate a locking device to ensure the bolt didn't back off. A cotter pin, safety wire, or application of a Locktite product, for example.
Exactly this!! Neither lock nut or split washer are meant for anything remotely close to this abuse.
@@skipsterz this bolt would be torqued past 6lbf as well if it was in use
I find castle nuts pretty interesting..
I worked for a foundry molding machine supplier from 2005 until 2015. I started working on those machine from 1990 until 2024. They rarely used lockwashers and then under very specific conditions. They labeled lock washers as loosening devices They relied on proper torque specs. I could count on one hand how many times a properly torqued bolt or nut worked loose. This was true from M5 to M30 sizes. This was my experience for almost 34 years.
Thank you for this video. I install solar and electronics in RV's, which are sarcastically known as rolling earthquakes. Because of the vibration I use a Nyloc nut where appropriate to ensure that whatever I'm fastening stays fastened. The more permanent solutions like cotter pins and wires are overkill for my situation. The comments are excellent and show that there's a lot of knowledge out there. A Part II test would be great! Add to the test higher torque, blue and red Loctite and a double nut.
6 ft P is ~8nm, when the required torque is: M6 Bolt (8.8 Grade)Torque: 9-10 NM M8 Bolt (8.8 Grade)Torque: 22-25 NM M10 Bolt (8.8 Grade)Torque: 44-49 Nm
Thanks! Increasing the torque to proper specs for higher grade fasteners will show that plain nuts will hold on their own… lock washers or lock nuts won’t be needed. That’s a future video. 👍😎
@@HacksbyDadNever use spring washes with high tensile fixtures.
@@HacksbyDad I disagree with that based on decades working in industrial and power plants. Real world conditions are much harsher than your simple test rig.
Now, run the test again with proper torque for the bolt size and grade. 6 ft/lb is way too low.
The split nut depends on compression to dig in. The nylon lock nut depends only on friction on the threads, so torque is immaterial to the nylon nut.
really ,less than half
Split washers dont 'dig in' they provide a preload tension.
@@VladimirPutin-p3t ever try to take one apart?
The bolt is a spring and wasn’t tensioned enough! The nylon is an extra brake if tension is lost.
This depends on the use case! Not every bolt is fastened to the rated max torque. There are tons of applications where the torque is limited. For example when you fasten axial bearings. Or of a partially threaded bolt works as an axis like in the rear axle of a motorbike. In this cases you need to secure the nut anyways. And this is a good example of it. Fully loaded bolts have less need for a lock
Thank you for taking the time to do this.
Haters do not deserve internet access. We all just watched a very good thing take place. Something more people should carry the desire to do in life. Scientific method of discovery being applied and carried out is always good. If an experiment can be improved upon, by all means offer suggestions. But do not disregard the effort. After all, information was obtained from the effort. Testable information with repeatable results. That's called success.
Ask an engineer if you are doing anything needing to survive in critical applications
This proved if you don't tighten it to speck they will all eventually come loose.
It's a flawed test. We wouldn't expect you to understand based on your opinion
Duder wants participation trophies for the effort lol
@@lollipop84858
As I stated, haters do not deserve internet access. Nice of you to make the effort to reinforce the statement.
Doing so while actively missing the entire point calls into question your opinion, but thanks for "participating".
well thought out test. now remove and reinstall the nylock. how many reinstalls before the nylon ring is no longer effective?
Every fastner has its place in its application. I have worked on both vehicles and small engines all my life. I can tell you the true winner is using locktite. I have never had locktite fail.
I've seen it fail with heat.
@@scottfirman anything that needs stripping and re assembly if it has had locktite on the engineers will be cursing! I only ever use it as studlock.
@@dogwalker666 use the correct loctite, blue gel is perfect for most low heat applications, then you have your high heat blue medium strength, then you have your reds. If you use a red thats on you, that stuff is "Im not planning on removing that and it really shouldnt come off under use because that would be catastrophic". Some reds you can remove by heating with a torch, though you cant always do that with the part/location.
@@BigChiefWiggles I know I have the chart on the wall, You missed the point, Other people including machine manufacturers use thread lock not just locktite, And it can make maintenance an absolute nightmare.
There is a version for high heat. I used it where I needed to fasten the cylinder head of a moped, because the gasket was burned, but could not use cylinder head screws. I had to secure threaded bolts to the cylinder, ease the cylinder head on the four bolts and fasten them with screw nuts. Else I would have to remove the complete motor.
The loctite never failed, the bolts never went loose in the hot motor.
This testing procedure itself is clever, effective, easily reproducable and could probably be standardized with some sizing and movement definitions. Thank you for sharing it.
We have the answer at 00:07 since you use Nylon to build your test rig ;) . Thanks for the interesting video.
😂😂
I noticed that too. I wonder what they're torqued at.
Well spotted
I was thinking the exact same thing
Exactly... And obviously with sufficient torque
An interesting experiment. I especially enjoyed seeing how the lock-washer dug into the metal of the plain washer as it worked its way open.
Spring washer for left-hand thread!
This guy is great! Actual quality, objective, and controlled testing with measured analysis. Great job. This is the best testing video I have seen. Really. I worked as a test engineer for Martin Marietta's Denver Astronautics Group, I have experience in this area.
lmfao, your test jig with the reciprocating saw is genuinely funny
👍😎
@@HacksbyDad Ya, hilarious; finally someone who gets why I read encyclopedias, the bible and other classics … for the jokes /pure sarcasm in case too … (I’ll leave it to you to throw shade)
It looks like a very aggressive dildo machine
Highly effective though.👍
The Project Farm channel would approve!
Missed opportunity to do both split washer and nylon lock nut together.
Also, Keps nuts with integral star washer....
I use this method. Nyloc and split washer.
Absolutely pointless.
Split washers aren't even meant for ridgid assemblies.
If you're REALLY concerned about loosening you design for cyclic loading with proper fasteners (place bolts) properly torqued.
Look at anything from a drive line clutch, to a locomotive or rock crusher and that's all you'll find.
Like was said, if you want to keep the wheels on your kids bike use a nylon, but they can't stand heat or solvents.
@@jimurrata6785 all your examples use some form of thread lock, not saying I know better, just it'd be 1 less counter-argument a person could make if you work around it.
@@EXZACHTPERFORMANCE So, what class fit do YOU suggest to keep an _under torqued_ nut in place when subject to violent cyclical loading?
Great test!
This is why crucial fasteners are lockwired on aircraft.
Shake it for a week and it’ll still be there.
A&P/IA,ASE
Can someone let Boeing know.
@@macforme First Boeing needs to remember to install the nuts.
@@David-p7z9n 😂🤣😂👍 Good point!
I've forwarded your comment to Boeing's r&d department
I had to stop laughing at all these comments to your post, David. But, yeah, I'm ex-Navy (F-4J) and all our critical bolts are safety-wired.
I bought a bike trailer that had split lock washers on the wheels. I started cycling with tools in my backpack. Then I bought some nyloc bolts and put two on each wheel. Been 4 years and no issues since then
I really appreciate this content. Very helpful and informative. As I have had issues with the metal lock washers, I have now replaced with nylon lock nuts. You have saved me valuable money in replacement parts.
According to NASA, when tightened fully (as would usually be done), a split “lock” washer no longer acts as a lock washer and shouldn’t be used as one.
👍😎
Makes me wonder if placing a notch on the nut would cause the split washer to hold better
I wouldn't trust a NASA engineer to correctly torque a finger nut.
this is correct
@@stratman103 I would t trust you to know the difference.
Would also be interesting to see the difference between the various Loctite type (actual Loctite, not the imitations). I am also curious how serrated lock washers would compare, perhaps even internal vs external. I prefer Nylocs for most applications in small sizes (4-40 to 10-32) when I don't have to repeatedly remove them. Fun video though. Even if it doesn't answer all the questions, it makes people think - and that is very important.
Thanks! I posted a couple of tests earlier...
ruclips.net/video/4H-HOHZ3chA/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/lwtUWB2TIYA/видео.html
👍😎
Also known as a spring washer and on my classic car I think I have found and removed everyone one of them. Nylock nuts or castle nuts with a split pin, or a liquid threadlocking solution are all better than the spring washer.
Never known as a spring washer. Ever. It is s a split washer. Nothing more, nothing less.
@@I_Am_Your_Problem It might ba a calque. Their name in my language can be translated to English exactly as a "spring washer".
Yes they are. I've literally never seen a spring-washer in an aerospace application. If I did, I'd go through the modification process to get it removed and replaced with nylock nuts or castellated nuts.
In those first tests, the moment the nut moves, the test is done. Interesting video.
Excellent practical experiment. I converted to nylock years ago.
For all the haters…
If you are building a bridge, follow the plans
If you are fixing your kids wagon, use a nyloc so the wheel won’t fall off 🤷♂️
That’s the whole point of this
The bridge probably calls for split lock washers and a flat washer.
Nylock is for pussies.
yep. with the right software, one can see the NON-Likers. 12 on 8/2024...which is really weird!
For your kids wagon, use a longer bolt, if required, and two nuts blocked against each other or drill a hole in the blot and use a pin.
@@andrewwebb2141 Exactly! I guarantee even the haters learned something from this video.
😂😂😂 RUclips cut off the your second sentence after, "If you are fixing your kids". 😂😂😂 I was thinking, "Good LORD! Where's THIS going?"
you should try this test with Nord-Lock washers, they are very expensive and I'd be interested to see if they are worth what they charge.
Yeah… I’ve heard a lot about Nord-Locks and hope to test them one day. Thanks! 👍😎
Yes, try them and Schnorr also. Split washers are since long, not accepted as securing. Their spring force is much lower than the screw tension.
Also try special nuts or the thread Spiralock.
I've used Nord-Lock, they are good.
Used nord-lock washer often in the past. It takes substantial effort to release them. It almost feels unreal when untightening.
Nylock is my de facto solution
Nordlock are crazy, they claim 115% Bolt Torque to loosen. Can verify first hand they live up to that spec? 7:28 expensive yes, but able to withstand heavy vibration and heat.
1/5 recomended torque is not a fair test. It overwhelming favours nylocks as they don't rely on bolt tension to stay put.
Thanks! If I were to 5x the torque… the plain nut would probably hold all by itself. That’s a future video. 👍😎
Agree. For the test to be valid, all fasteners must be installed to spec., including torque. The plain nuts would indeed remain secure for a much longer time if proper thread elongation were achieved, as would the split lock washers, under proper compression.
A test with much more severe vibration and much longer duration would be required to truly compare these fasteners under correct installation.
@@twosixtyninechatter653 Thanks! It was just a simple comparison test for the curious DIYer. Serious engineering types can refer to NASA. 👍😎
@@HacksbyDadWhy would DIYers want a meaningless test?
@@HacksbyDad I would be more curious about how close to the rec. tq. for a bolt you need to get for the lockwasher to start to function properly.
At 1/5th the standard install torque on a fastener..... you haven't used the fastener properly and you CANNOT expect it to stay without using a nylon or crimped nut. If you cannot clamp your parts with something close to the standard spec for the fastener, then you need a high friction/pinned/etc nut.
This just confirmed my suspicion and why as a mechanic, I've personally chose to put THREAD LOCKER, on everything, even if it has a split lock washer, or nylon thread. Especially suspension, and steering components that see tons of vibrations. I have literally told friends to ask mechanics, "do y'all use thread locker on the suspension components?". If they say, "it doesn't need it", turn around and walk away and never come back. Don't even argue with them.
If you put thread locker on ball joints you are asking for trouble. Where do you work on steering components that don't have castle nuts and cotter keys? I don't think you have any mechanical sense at all. I would run from you.
You should have done more research, all this testing is voided because you didn’t tighten the hardware to the specified torque 3/8-16 is 23 ft/lbs.
THANK YOU!!! Looking for this comment because why would anyone go through all of this and torque to only 6 ft/lbs???
@@stevehiggerson7328would make a lot more boring video. What locks the bolts down is the hardware stretching against itself when torqued
The nylocks aren't spinning relative to the bolt, which means the loss of clamping strength is probably due to the bolt stretching from the dynamic forces of your test setup.
Good point! Thanks! 👍😎
I noticed the same point about the nylock's. I wondered if there were burrs from the split ring washers left on the shouldered bushings that were worn down by the action. Stretching of the 3/8 bolts seemed less likely to me but I don't know. There are significant accel's in the reversing action so forces can be high.
I also wondered if the original torque was sufficient. I was surprised to see the torque for ASTM A307 galvanized and waxed bolt is 6 lb. For non waxed it is 15lb. Other grades increase torque spec.
The comment from a CAT/Cummins engineer was very interesting. They don't use split washers.
I wonder if stainless steel fasteners would fare differently due to their tendency for the threads to meld into each other (I forget the specific term for this).
@@goodun2974galling?
@@JELWwL6unE8V7iGB3 yup, that's the right word.
interesting test! For auto and home use, where removal is not a concern, I far prefer nylocks. They always stay tight and you won't loose a nut even if it loosens. Less likely to rust onto the threads as well.
For high vibration, but need for removal, I like double nuts or split washer. Auto battery mounting bracket, for example.
Nylocks are a pain to remove off long threaded bolts because they will never spin
For a high vibration area like a washing machine, I would ideally use a nylock. Even if it loosens, you won't lose the nut, and potential disassembly of whatever is held together and it won't gall the mounting surface.
Your test surprised me though. It does bring up a good issue of re-using nylocks or split washers.
Less common, there are serrated nuts as well.
Thanks! I plan to do tests with other locking fasteners just for the fun of it. 👍😎
All the nuts and bolts we use are stainless so rust is never a problem, Nylock can fail because chemicals can melt the nylon, They are also a single use item,
Spring washers are far more robust, Especially in harsh environments.
@@HacksbyDadget some aviation nuts if you can, They actually bite into the bolts.
Cone lock nuts. Nylocks fail in heat.
Those serrated flange nuts are common in a bicycle shop. They work well too.
And your test rig uses nylon self-locking nuts. Thx! Thats all I needed to know 😀
Transverse vs Axial, though
Watch this bit 0:33.
You showed the results that I would have expected. I would like to point out a particular type of application where a Kep nut (basically like a split lock in applications) failed and was let loose inside a piece of electronic gear. The Kep nut and and screw held a lanyard that held a cap for an Amphenol connector. It wasn't vibrated a lot, but there was a lot of tugging on it from side to side. The nut not only loosened, but came off. I recommended it be replaced by a Nylock so if the nut/screw did loosen, the nut would still be captivated.
Good test. Very educational for use with anyone new to torque specs, how various fasteners work, and why we use locking fasteners-with proper torque-for specific applications. Aside from the "Already solved this" comments, which have applicable information, this was well done and useful
Your videos are instructive. However, whether the nut fell off or not, all of the fasteners loosened to some degree which is a failure. The same test with Lok-tite would be instructive as would be prevailing torque nuts. Also 6 ft lb is a very low torque for a 3/8-16 fastener. As you showed, lock washers should be avoided. Keep up the good work.
👍😎
The nut/bolt combo is free to slide and bang around inside the jig. This a is a failure of application rather than material.
@@mlconley Thanks! My test is based on this test supposedly aerospace test... ruclips.net/video/6tR2JV4VZfA/видео.html
I think mine is harsher on the impact side of things. 😎
I agree completely. Lost preload should be considered a failure, as should a fastener that has moved off scribe, and 6 ft-lbs is very low for a 3/8-16 fastener. Assuming that is a grade 5 fastener, a torque of 23 ft-lbs would be appropriate and I would expect it to maintain clamp load for much longer on the vibration test.
The split washer keeps the parts clamped even after the nut loosens a bit, and _some of them_ bite into the nut and part, stopping the nut from becoming loose, but if the nut loosens enough, it stops acting and the nut is free.
The nylon locknut will resist from getting loose, but once it's loose, the parts lose clamping force, but the locknut will keep resisting.
What we need is a locknut *_and_* a preloaded washer that *_always_* bites into the nut and part. That way, both the washer and nut will offer resistance, and if the nut comes loose, the washer will maintain clamping force for a while and the locknut will keep resisting.
Watched a rather long video years ago with similar tests on a larger rig. They found split washers useless, nuts on their own were better. They found the conical washers better as they retained their force under compression and I think the what they call aircraft nuts superior to standard. Quite interesting as a designer.
👍😎
Very good video.
Videos like these have always been of interest to me.
Whether split lock washers, the spikey ones or nylon nuts.
Very concise, love that you kept the name of the current test on the screen too, and that you had a series of controls, like the same torque specs etc.
Size for size, the nyloc is superior as it has a "grip" on the bolt thread all the time regardless of the torque applied or if the bolt stretches. The split lock washer relies on the sharp edge to bite into the nut and the fastening surface to stop the nut from loosening, however if the nut is loosened, the nut will eventually come off.
The absolute king of washers is Nord Lock washers.
No vibration will bite on those.
Maybe a video idea?
Thanks! Do Nord locks need more torque? I purposefully used the low 6 ft-lbs of torque so that the plain nut would fail. 😎
@@HacksbyDad The washers I’d say are used in more specialized areas. All washers / or package of washers would come with instructions how to use those plus the torque to be applied.
I’ve used those washers is large two-stroke engines for ocean going vessels used to secure sensors and other monitoring equipment.
@@HacksbyDadNordlock will work with 6 ft lbs. Repeat test with those and also try blue Locktite
@@johanea 👍😎
@@rsilvers129 👍😎
Lots of arm chair quarterback comments. Regardless of all the negitive comments, it still demonstrates what a nylon lock washer can accomplish over a split and no washer installed.
It isn't a nylon lock washer. It's a nylon lock nut.
@@joewoodchuck3824 There it is! It didn't take long for another arm chair quarterback to jump in with more "expertise".
@@jaypie0864 I said nothing that isn't factual. I'm sorry that you don't understand the terminology.
What are we actually testing, the spring washers purpose is to provide tension and preload however that's not what we are testing here.
We can say that when a bolt and nut are loosely tightened then Nyon lock nuts will do a better job than a spring washer.
@@ghostofdre The nylon lock nut may or may not do a better job than a lock washer. This is a test of a specialty application with high stress. In the vast majority of applications lock washers will still do just fine. Another factor is that nylon lock nuts are only meant to use once because the first use of one has far more holding power than subsequent uses. They're also pricey compared to conventional nuts. When using enough of the nylon lock nuts that price will add up.
But there's also a flaw in the testing in that it wasn't inclusive enough. Not once was thread locker mentioned. The advantage of it is significant. It's inexpensive. Additionally it helps with corrosion protection. And lastly it comes in grades of holding power. Those are things that neither lock washers nor nylon lock nuts can ever hope to do.
This will go into the garage of my mind just in case I need it later.
Thanks for the vid. I see some discussion about the recommended torque, but I don’t think home DIYers routine use torque wrenches. Thanks for avoiding annoying music and extraneous banter.
I love this test and im glad you did it for our viewing pleasure! I hope there is a part two with the comments in mind.
The lock nut will stay there if not fully tighten . The experiment is a success . A lock washer will lose its spring over time .
Thank you. That is what he was trying to show.
Spring washer for left thread! The correct washer does not move.
Now try both with locktite
7:29 A bolt or screw is nothing but a spring and while I enjoyed the video and the effort involved, the bolts were not torqued enough. The little holes in the crush sleeves should not have been aligned either, in my opinion.
6 foot lbs....might as well say Hand Tight!
7:29?
@@rayscrHe put that timestamp so that his comment will show up first for people who finished the video, since RUclips shows comments with your timestamp tagged. The tactic feels dishonest, personally.
My issue is that nylocs are only good for one use. I use split washers when I know I might be taking it apart and need them to put it back together. I use nylocs and or locktite for everything else.
They're doing their best when you use them together. Nylon prevent rotation. Split lock as a spiral part compensate parts "freedom" which appears
Try Loctite.
Тоже хотел его предложить👍
Why only 6ft lbs?
Thanks!
I chose 6 ft-lbs for a future test with Loctite threadlockers. On page 79 of the Loctite Threadlocker manual, it states that the breakloose torque is typically tested with the fastener seated to 5 Nm or 3.7 ft-lbs...
dm.henkel-dam.com/is/content/henkel/LOCTITE-Threadlocker-Manual
The minimum torque my torque adapter can measure is 5.9 ft-lbs so I chose 6 ft-lbs. I'm testing other locking devices at that same torque before testing Loctite red and blue.
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@@HacksbyDadfor 3\8 course bolt Fastenal recommends at least 23 ft-lb others recommended even higher especially for dry conditions. 6 ft-lb is too small for such big bolt. There is essentially no preload on it
@@ltaranovich9 agreed, it isnt just about digging into the metal, its about the compression of the washer as a spring that pushes the nut threads against the threads of the bolt. this is also why you have to use NEW lock washers each time after they were torqued to spec.
@@HacksbyDad then this video is only to compare the performance of loctite in low torque loads and has nothing to do with lock washers and nylocks.
@@HacksbyDad I would like to see this test redone with the bolt and nuts preloaded to the maximum for the size, both the split nut and nyloc.
Interesting, and real world applicable-in the garden shed, by which I mean: the real world. So many aero engineers here getting their knickers in a twist, citing NASA usage. If you're building a fence, you'd use split washers and tighten it by hand. If you're building a billy cart,, you'd use Nylocs on the axles, and still tighten by hand. On my 1974 GT750 Suzuki, there are mostly nuts and bolts with split washers, one Nyloc nut, two castellated nuts with split pins, a couple of lock-wired nuts, and several nuts and bolts with foldable tab washers. All tightened to proper torque specs.
A good initial test, alerting users of a possible problem. (retired engineer)
Been building things for many years, nyloc is the way to go unless you plan on cutting and peening the bolt. My favorite toy growing up was an Erector Set with the 120 motor. Good video. I hate lock washers as they bugger up the threads on both the bolt and nut. I would like to see how a double nut would have held up.
Just for fun try a nylon locknut and a split washer at the same time.
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I second this motion! The nylon lock nut holds on to the bolt, the split washer hods on to the spacers!
Yes. Best of both worlds.
This is not about mixing peanut butter with chocolate. It is about which is better by itself
@@jerrymccurry9372 No kidding.
0:58 I am glad to see the experiment was properly supervised.
GREAT video! It got 154,000 views in 3 days! 600+ comments. So it stimulated a lot of folks to give thought to this subject and a lot of good comments were made. Thanks for this video.
Thanks! Sounds like you know how things work on RUclips. Are you a RUclipsr too?
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Doesn't anyone see that the washer is for a left-hand thread? The correct washer doesn't move.
I have repaired loosening garage door hinges with through bolts and nuts with split lock washers. They do still loosen occasionally. Looks like I need the nylocs.
Great video, and fascinating results… good stuff! 👍
Test isn't really good, none of those are designed to hold with 6ft lbs or torque. Use a proper torque spec and test again. Yes if you test something it's not designed to do, it will not do what it's designed to do...
Thanks! Using proper torque specs won’t require either because the plain nut will hold all by itself. That’s a future video! 😎
@@HacksbyDad can't wait for this!
@@HacksbyDadso the whole test is admittedly useless
@@HacksbyDad you said: ".... won’t require either ...." Sorry but that communication need some work! What do you actually mean with that?
He means a properly designed and assembled bolted joint won’t fail in this way.
Lock washers and nylock washers are to prevent the joint from failing after preload is lost.
Try now spring washer + Nylock with Locktighte.
Not a true test. They are engineered to work under specific tension. This does not provide that. You are testing them out of spec.
It’s like doing a wear test on car tires with 1/2 specified air pressure.
Thanks! Increasing the torque to proper specs for higher grade fasteners will show that plain nuts will hold on their own… lock washers or lock nuts won’t be needed. That’s a future video. 👍😎
@@HacksbyDad I think all bolted to spec I'd still expect the plain nut to come loose before the other two, in a similar but more severe vibration test.
You mean to say that a test by a DIY channel on RUclips didn't hold to the most rigorous testing standards? I'm shocked! I thought everything on the interwebs held to the highest standards of accuracy?!?
@@HacksbyDadAnd thank you for this practical and helpful video!
@@jaypie0864 if one is going to present themselves in a professional testing manner, others will give constructive feedback. Maybe you should get back to your legos
Always been a fan of nylon lock washers and Loctite adhesive for things I never want to come apart. I almost never use washers unless I'm trying to spread the load on the bolt on a softer material or prevent scratching damage to the surface of whatever I'm tightening.
I stopped using the split washers many years back when I almost lost a trailer when the nut got off the ball pin, thanks to the chains that kept the trailer hooked up to my Truck.
You kind of give away the ending since your jig is held together with nylocks :) Jokes aside, this is a great demo for people to understand how they differ.
Sort of. I explained in the video that
the transverse load affects the bolts more than the axial load. 👍😎
@@HacksbyDad Yes, but you didn't want your jig to fly apart during testing, clearly you had all 3 in front of you, and you CHOSE the Nylocks.
Trust me, we aren't picking on you, I would have used them too!
@@bigbossimmotal Haha! Good point! Maybe I'll switch them to just plain nuts in future videos. 👍😎
@@HacksbyDad But then it would fly apart during testing. lol
@@bigbossimmotal It shouldn't because those bolts undergo axial forces. I'll find out when I do another test. 😎
Safety wire 👍
Here's my follow up test with the nyloc and split lock washer combined... ruclips.net/video/Iao2HT71kB8/видео.html
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next time please usw "Wedge lock washers" to compare
It's very interesting, what would you say if one of these methods is to use a thread locker for particularly vibration-loaded places, there are different fixations. For example, I use a medium one for a chainsaw??
The best way to test a threaded joint is to stretch the bolt into the yield portion of the material.
You forgot to test with blue and red loctite!
@@willybbb999For my chainsaw I use blue thread lock strong for vibration-loaded areas; it is difficult to unscrew even with a key unless the saw is heated with a hair dryer or warmed up well after work.
It looks from the way the paint marks end up that in at least some of the tests, the initiation of failure occurs not due to rotation of the nut relative to the flange, but with rotation of the bolt relative to the whole assembly of nut-washer-flange which itself remains co-angular.
It might be interesting to see whether adding another split washer between the head of the bolt and the other flange helps, but fundamentally the issue is insufficient clamping force to hold the joint together, ie not enough torque.
Great test, thank you!
I chose metal locknut over Nylon locknut because of freezing and sun that may destroy nylon. It's basketball shield on a street.
Your test is severely flawed. 6 ft pounds is noting for torque. You needed to go to 20 ft pounds to get to the working clamping and design specs for a 3/8 bolt.
I love these sort of videos. I've always used one or the other when I though it would be viscerally logical, but never knew the facts. Thank you.
Looking at this experiment as the alignment marks on the nyloc nut and thread always seemed aligned each time the test was paused what was experienced was a fair amount of wear in the soft steel of the holding apparatus and not the movement of the nut on the thread.
Thanks for the test❤ i install a lot of speakers and horn speaker. I use a lot of nylon Nuts to prevent from getting lose and falling down. . Even if it is lose the nut will not fall off and still holding.the assembly.
incredible and wonderful test! I ask myself long time ago, what more stronger, split or nylon... and now i have my answer... Thanks!!
I expected those results but it was still very interesting to watch that video. Thank you.
Thanks, nice test. I think the rig is slightly changing as it wears out. Would have been a good check to repeat the 1st test item at the end.
This video was worth watching and corresponds to my experiences. I also learnt that split washers have an orientation, which I did not know until watching this video. Good to see a follow up video with them combined. As to the aircraft mechanic, I am horrified that he might be suggesting that aircraft use cotter pins, that have their own means of fatigue followed by catastrophic failure.
Great test, thanks for sharing! Indeed, this is not intended to replicate or demonstrate a high level of technicality, but a simple comparison under similar conditions of common locking mechanisms to delay the complete nut back off. For that, it serves the purpose. AND, it’s quite entertaining for those with curious minds. Well done, sir.
Thanks! I find it funny how many negative comments this simple video received from the many "experts" out there. Anyway... I'm working on another comparison with the same basic parameters. 👍😎
Nice scientific investigative comparison. Definitely we did learn from your effort. However I would like to inspire a retest, with the fastener torqued to a more typical value than only 6ft pounds, I think most of us even the most cautious of us without a torque wrench are getting closer to 20ft pounds on a 3/8" fastener. Enjoyed your video and thanks!
Split lock is for high temperature. Does it make sense to compare fasteners designed for different tasks? Check the core also when the plugged nut is inserted.
This was an interesting and useful video. Thanks for making such a detailed comparison. I upgraded a Segway Scooter with aftermarket suspension and needed to secure the rear wheel. The original bolts would not fit in the new suspension frame. I decided to go with Titanium flange metal lock nuts. These were expensive but have not budged in more than a year and over a thousand kilometres of riding.
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It would be great to compare it with other possibilities to save the nut from loosen.
Glue, or two nuts, or the stop washers with multiple stoppers....
I h
Interesting, if you ever do follow up testing could you run the test with the double nut option 'jam nut'. You torque the first nut to something, probably more than 6 ft/lbs and then put the second nut on an torque that against the first to the same torque. Curious if that is equivalent to a single ny-lock or similar. Thank you.
Congratulations on a great video, and a well conducted test. As a mechanical engineer, these results are not surprising to me. The Nylok nut should in theory be better because it directly causes resistance (friction) between the nut and the bolt. The split washer does not provide direct resistance between the nut and the bolt - it causes resistance between the nut and the flange. One thing that I have always thought that would make the spilt washer more effective would be to place a second split washer under the head of the bolt. The split washer provides some resistance to prevent the nut from turning off the bolt, but does not prevent the bolt from turning out of the nut. It would be interesting to see a second set of tests with a second split washer underneath the bolt head.
a German metalworker, the following nut is missing from the test as a securing nut :Locking nut made of metal (without plastic). This locking nut has two compressions on one side, which deform the thread slightly at the end and, once tightened with the appropriate torque, cannot be loosened without damaging the bolt thread... there are also toothed washers and screw paint for securing.
In aviation, we used a thin wire through a hole in the nut that went around the bolt then to the next bolt. Kind of sewed together. This was the sheet metal on helicopters in the army.
Fascinating video. Would love to see more of these experiments with other torques as suggested in other comments.