WI v. Kyle Rittenhouse Trial Day 9 - Arguments Over Lesser Included Charges
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- Опубликовано: 11 ноя 2021
- Live Coverage: WI v. Kyle Rittenhouse - Kenosha Shooting
REMINDER of the judge's ruling in defense use of force expert testimony: Schroeder told the attorneys that Black wouldn’t be allowed to testify about what Rittenhouse was thinking when he pulled the trigger or whether he definitively acted in self-defense.
Assistant District Attorney Thomas Binger said if Schroeder allowed Black to testify only about the timeline of events that night he wouldn’t call his own expert to the stand. Defense attorney Mark Richards agreed to the deal.
Charges:
1. First Degree Reckless Homicide, Use of a Deadly Weapon (Joseph Rosenbaum)
2. First Degree Recklessly Endangering Safety, Use of a Deadly Weapon (Richard
McGinnis, reporter for Daily Caller, not injured but near Rosenbaum when Rittenhoue
fired)
3. First Degree Recklessly Endangering Safety, Use of a Deadly Weapon (unknown male)
4. First Degree Intentional Homicide, Use of a Deadly Weapon (Anthony Huber)
5. Attempt First Degree Intentional Homicide, Use of a Deadly Weapon (Gaige
Grosskreutz)
6. Possession of a Dangerous Weapon by a Person under the Age of 18
7. DISMISSED AT THE END OF STATE”S CASE. Prosecution failed to put evidence in front of the jury that there was a lawful curfew in place (appears to be an oversight by prosecution) Defense moved to dismiss, judge agreed. Fail to Comply with Order of Local Government - Emergency Management Activity (citation, carries no penalty) - everyone present was breaking the 7pm curfew issued by the sheriff.
Possible Sentence: Max: Life in Prison Without Parole (WI does not have the DP)
JURY CHOSEN IN ONE DAY. 20 jurors have been selected in WI v. Kyle Rittenhouse. 9 men and 11 women. (8 are alternates)
Rittenhouse shot and killed Joseph Rosenbaum, 26, and Anthony Huber, 26, and injured Gaige Grosskreutz, 27. Prosecutors say that Rittenhouse, then 17 and from Illinois, was a vigilante looking for a fight. He, like other right-wingers, went to Kenosha, Wisconsin ostensibly to protect property. This happened as protests over police shooting local man Jacob Blake turned violent. Rittenhouse’s attorneys assert he was acting in self-defense. This case became a cause célèbre among conservatives.
Prosecutors have struggled in court, failing to introduce evidence of prior aggressive behavior. This included evidence showing him attacking a woman who was in an altercation with his sister. The other is that he was closely linked to the violent, far-right Proud Boys organization.
Kenosha County Judge Bruce Schroeder said an appellate court would reverse him if he allowed these in trial. The evidence was too prejudicial, he said. He left it up in the air whether he would allow footage showing someone identified as Rittenhouse discussing a Black man exiting a CVS pharmacy. Rittenhouse believed the man was shoplifting.
#KyleRittenhouse #KenoshaShooting
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so this is the only person in all the Kenosha's riots that is being charged with serious crimes???
For daring to protect the neighborhood from the Marxist terror cell. The overlords hate that.
Yep.
Grosskreutz should’ve been charged with illegal possession of a firearm, and reckless endangerment (pointing his gun at a minor). But instead, the Leftist media is hailing him as some sort of a lone survivor hero 🤮
Good point !
What about all those people burning that town to the ground what happened to them. This case is ridiculous. The young man should walk. 🇬🇧
Imagine sitting there while all of these characters discuss your fate.
I cant imagine whatsoever.
Hes fighting for his life/future.
They are fighting for a paycheck.
It's disgusting.
And there are alot of people out there actively calling for his blood.
Like life in prison for using SELF DEFENSE.
95%of the people I've seen comment about the case; be it the news or random crazies in the comments, have not seen a scintilla of evidence.
@@redbeardreturns3550 I think about this, every time i see someone smile or smirk, when they were talking about not working on saturday and would rather to monday. Crazy to think life goes on. youre irrelevant
@@elliotbaker3757 definitely surreal, it’s an odd thing to be considered a statistic or number.
I don't ever want to understand the insanity of a prosecutor that disregards the right to self defense.
Yeah Judge Grandpa Munster cracking jokes and laughing all the way through.
“Your honor I don’t believe their was a crowd.” Video shows hundreds of people in the crowd with weapons, vandalizing and destroying. The prosecutors are slime.
I love how we have video evidence of all these people smashing windows and damaging cars yet none of them are on trial
have you monitored all of the court cases in that state to know for a fact that no one was charged or are you just making assumptions, also are you really comparing smashing windows and damaging cars to taking a human life as though they are the same thing
@@flashback0978 in the words of dwight shrute....false. Destroying someones business especially during a pandemic where businesses were already suffering....you are robbing them of their livelihood.....which could lead to destitution and possibly death. And im not sure about in kenosha....but I heard several times of people being burned alive in their businesses. Starting fires not knowing if people are inside is about as reckless as one can be IMO
@@flashback0978 in response to your first question yes I have and no one has been charged and certainly no one has gone to trial. In response to your second question which is one of the dumbest questions I've ever heard. You go to trial when you commit a crime and since Kyle Rittenhouse has not committed any crime and these people have then the answer is obvious
@@kittycaruso50 Well said!!
I don't think it's unreasonable to prioritize trying someone who killed three people over people who vandalized property.
The State could not prove the crime so they are trying to add lesser charges.
Those charges were already in play. Not that the defense has been doing it's job at all since Tuesday, but it didn't bat an eye at the discussion of lower-level charges along the same vein today.
Exactly lol
@@cobbler88 You are exactly right , where was the defense today ? They are assuming that they have already won and are letting these secondary charges slip by .
@@eaglerider1826 they know that it can go one of two ways “not guilty or mistrial with prejudice”
@@eaglerider1826 The big thing was not pressing the argument against the drone video. That could cost them an acquittal.
MY guess is maybe they thought they are so far ahead that rather than push days ago for a mistrial with prejudice, they want this thing to go to jury so that it will be over and done with. But with that video changing the jury instructions now, I don't see an entire jury acquitting Kyle.
Worst part about this trial is that the State can put forth known false information into a trail and say it's a fact.
"I don't see a crowd there" while 100 people are on the screen...
Yeah the prosecutors has been lying serval times throughout the trial.
Makes you wonder how many people these prosecutors have bamboozled into prison...
The state isn't seeking justice...
they're seeking a conviction.
That's every case everywhere.
That's their role ... The Jury then decides on the facts and the Judge on the Law ... The counterbalance to the state prosecution is Both the Defence, Plus the burden of proof ...
This prosecutor is arguing that someone destroying property and making threats to someone has rights over someone merely defending themselves. SMH what has America come to
Not rights over any others but rights the same. A life is a life. The person who killed Jeffrey Dahmer had to answer for taking a life. Only a court can take a life in the eye of the law
"If the statute makes no sense, you're out of luck" HAHAHA I cant get enough of this judge.
Well I heard from a reliable source that the night of the shooting Kyle also removed his Mattress Tag the one that ominously warns, "Under penalty of law, this tag not to be removed" he will fry for that one…
Best comment I’ve read in a long while.
You have no idea how much that endanger everyone else in that house, Completely irresponsible.
Isn't he a consumer?
@@BedsitBob don’t be that guy…
LOLOLLLOLOL
Just keeps getting better. Judge shoots down the lesser charge. Prosecution submits Kyle be found guilty of being out past his bedtime. Defence counters that Kyle had no curfew imposed by his parents.
How many times have you heard of a DA filing motions for a lesser included charge on nearly every charge against a defendant? That's a for sure sign of a weak case which the jury should have the right to hear that information. The jury should also have the right to know the intentionally questions from the DA that violated the defendants right to due process.
I think the jury should hear EVERYTHING.
A lot of should , for a twisted context.
2:12:00 so is he still on trial for manslaughter or is it lesser charges now?
@@Bee-tj8gc he’s on trial for murder, with lesser charges
You think the jury is not watching this your crazy...
This is public information
"I wish less people have my E-mail right now..." that made my day
Mr. Rosenbaum is 100% guilty and responsible for all that happened after he attacked Kyle
The city is also responsible for not protecting its citizens and businesses and allowing this to happen.
The governor also denied the National Guard that night.
Honestly the 1 comment though all of this I can agree on
@@asdadsgsaadasf6043 yes why chase and attack anyone with a gun, who is being non threatening going to the police.
@@MikeyBickle I know right. Especially why chase the man armed with a gun when you are only armed with a plastic bag lol
Perfectly said
There should not be any charges he was protecting himself.
He should never have been there with a firearm at 17 years old . Or any age for that matter . He’s not a police officer and he owns nothing in that city . Uncalled for And he needs to be punished .
@@tylopez7606 wrong. He’s not charged with anything you wrote. Where he’s from, how he got there, his age, crossing state lines, none of this is relevant to this case. It’s a simple defense case. Was he assaulted? Yes. Not Guilty!
@@tylopez7606 who has the right to be there? Rioters? Looters. Citizens of America have the right to protect themselves, with firearms.
@@riprush2672 idk man. There's just a little more to it than 'just' self defense.
@@bigcsbigbrother3685 There really isn't.
I have been in a situation where I have had to fight in court for my life because of a decision I made and sat there while the judge and district attorney joked about different things while I sat there having to be in silence and it’s a very very scary situation and it does things to you that you’ll never understand unless you are in that situation
Not been in that situation. But that’s what I think. He is sitting there alone (emotionally) and trying to keep up what all this legal chatter. Not asking questions not being able to have an opinion. Just quietly sitting there hoping his team knows what they are doing because it’s his life they are discussing.
@@lauvasquez7198 it’s sick and to sit there and watch the ADAs lie back to back is hard. What saved me is that the “victim” lied and the state attorney parroted the lie and got caught.
They could make this all make sense by dismissing the charges now.
GAME HAS TO BE PLAYED.
here's the thing the state law is that there is no self defense claim when you are in commission of a crime. He can not claim self defense.
@@richd9646 What crime putting out dumpster fires?
@@richd9646 It depends on the crime. Otherwise none of the people he shot could say that *they* were acting in self defense either. Everyone there was breaking curfew. Gaige Grosskreutz had an illegal firearm.
@@FLAMINGBABYHEAD so did rittenhouse
Is crack legal in Wisconsin? Because the prosecution is definitely smoking it.
🤣🤣🤣
These prosecutors could rubber-stamp death sentences to a million people, and then take a break for lunch.
One of them need a few hours at the buffet at least.
@@icelandviking1961 thats his guilt he's eating away. the other one is a stone cold psychopath
No
Chinese it would be the buffet for any in the courts.
@@outofahat9363 stone-cold psychopath? More like a pompous yet desperate resentful self-proclaimed corrupt counselor.
You stop shooting when you neutralize the threat!!!! This prosecution needs some gun education
Minimum reasonable doubt: no one can determine if R was pointing the weapon at anyone or Rosenbaum in the video, it’s all assumption.
To use that footage in a murder trial is a crime on its own. Bad call by the judge on that one.
@@JOHNNY-zx1lc but a very good opportunity to remove the instruction about reckless disregard for human life. They were satisfied that they got the instruction for provocation because they are big dummies.
There is no doubt the gun was aimed at rosenbaum at least 3x lol
@@marco3dartist prior to being chased and cornered. As in did Kyle provoke them by aiming his weapon. Ofc he aimed it at them after they attacked.
The Prosecutor is lying with his recall of witnesses evidence. Now trying to add as many charges as possible hoping to at least have one guilty result. Total sham, NOT GUILTY I say.
Yeah idk why his lawyers agreed to them being able to add these lesser charges. Unless I'm misunderstanding exactly what was agreed on i don't understand why they would set him up to take a charge that they could have tried from the beginning. They hit Kyle with charges when they didn't even know exactly what happened. If he's found guilty we no longer have a real justice system, I don't care what anyone thinks about that cops trial over Floyd as far as if he was guilty or innocent when the man was not afforded a fair trail. If this is the road we are going down our government in general is a joke and should be abolished as is.
@@SS-L.O.T.O. This boy needs to be punished for his crimes. Killing two and wounding another is pretty serious. Toting a big gun made him feel grown up but he’s just a child.
@@jpren4295 and big gun? You should try and learn about guns before you try talking about them. You said one thing and I can guarantee I know where you stand on everything. It's pretty sad that someone can pick you apart that easy.
@@jpren4295 2 words, SELF-DEFENSE
@tossed but not sunk ss are you stupid? The gun he is carrying is illegal and is classified as a class A misdemeanor in Wisconsin its an assault style rifle. Its not a little BB gun you clown
I can't belive what I've heard in this trial. I think it is time for mass capital punishment be handed out to all prosecuters who violate basic constitional laws and endlessly pursue charges against people that clearly defend themselves. This twisting liberal interpretation of our laws needs to stop. There needs to be consequences for prosecutors like this.
Add the media to that list.
he could not own the gun at the time . you are getting the law confused
@@jprosey judge deemed this irrelevant
Illegal to purchase/own long guns, not illegal to possess. I understand that clearly, and understand their need to argue that. but I do not get the other blatant fact twisting which was almost nine tenths of the total time the opened their mouths.
@@jprosey That doesn't forfeit your right to self defense, regardless if you are guilty of illegally possessing a firearm. So I think you're "getting the law confused".
I've never witnessed a prosecutor try so hard to convict an innocent man... or in this case, boy.
To further divide & cause chaos
Take the protest completely out of the situation and all you have is a bunch of adults trying to attack a kid for stopping an explosion. Lol that's insane people can even argue against Kyle.
Yo so I think KR is innocent , but there’s video of Kyle smokin cigs to the bones right next to gas pumps, so he might’ve caused one. I know it’s not legal for him to buy smokes yet but people reported him as chain smoking AT the GAS STATION.
Does that qualify as recklessness/no regard for Human life? Idk but the prosecutor could bring that up instead of all these dummy arguments they are making. Holds a little more water than “you played Call of Duty and bought an AR to be cool and shoot people l
@@214TwoOneFo that would have to be a lesser charge related to one of the main charges (1st degree murder, manslaughter etc.). It’s unrelated to the charges at hand so it is irrelevant
@@214TwoOneFo do you realize how much your reaching just to come up with a reason to get Kyle in trouble lol. Smoking a cig at the gas station and pushing a burning dumpster towards gas pumps is different lol
These prosecutors need to be put in jail. What an absolute joke.
Calm down
@@armandomacias8403 Crooked DA 100%
Play stupid games... they should win stupid prizes....
@@viewmasterism you mean rioting, running towards and attacking someone pointing a gun, and trying to shoot your gun and at another with a gun and then expecting NOT to get shot, especially by a hormonal teenage boy? That is a stupid prize.
@@Julietml11Well said!!!
Hey, Law&Crime: FANTASTIC COVERAGE OF THIS TRIAL!!!!
I agree. I even subscribed
Ive never seen a trial so well covered!
Love this channel.
I believe the Judge is at the point where he's now letting the prosecution reach and reach to show that very well could dismiss with being biased against the boy, that clearly defended himself he didnt run up on these people they ran up on him that's a big factor in this.if he ran up to the people threatening and shotting it would be different but that's not the case we got here. I believe the man taking pictures got threatened too if I remember right he was scared to come out of police office that shows what level people was getting threatened his night, scared for their lifesnear a station. If u run up on someone with a gun prepare something to happen. It's called self defense here this boy would be dead if he didn't defend himself
Agreed! I started watching the trial with PBS, but switched over permanently after observing that this channel was live and with the mic on, when more than a few times PBS was failing to deliver the same.
The DA Office are a bunch of nits.....
How is it possible to change charges AFTER the defense rests and can no longer mount a defense to those charges?
Or manipulations of video evidence and un-attested to conclusions and actions of other people based on that imagery. That's what really is giving me an ulcer right now.
The whole provocation bit. Slanted camera angles, low pixel count blobs after Temporal and color information video compression. And then reverse crafting of extra, DISTORTED, images ( look at sign shape ) on orig imagery versus cropped and blown up partial images. Are we to extrapolate angles on pixel blocks to offscreen targets ? How about for the cropped and distorted image? Are we then to allow TV rendering of video data to manipulate those images, again?
Badly handled IMHO from multiple angles.
And bad faith arguments on the part of the prosecution over this whole imagery mess.
There's no way that anyone can attest to the images being a fair and accurate representation of the original event. Well, not with retaining any amount of integrity.
We've seen how the prosecutor has no qualms about altering agreed-upon courses of action, even pre-trial instructions from the judge.
How about some presumption of innocence when the prosecutor is leading again and again and again with the same verbiage.
They are "lesser and included" charges. IOW, in most jurisdictions, they are presumed to be included. What they are arguing about here is whether specific jury instructions should be made based on the evidence that has already been presented. It's kind of hard to explain, but maybe this example will help. You drive your car to the bar, get drunk, get in your car and drive, and kill someone vs taking a breathalyzer test before getting in your car and KNOWING you are intoxicated, which would carry a stiffer penalty, say manslaughter vs negligent manslaughter.
well the jury is asleep having made their minds up several days ago that it is self defense. so probably just an attempt to wake them up and act like the situation is different somehow. i presume. not sure.
if the jury finds him not guilty then it just opens the door for lesser charges to which he will be able to mount a defense, meaning first the 3 major charges and then later the lesser ones if the jury decides its necessary
@@feluto7172 No...Both the prosecution and the defense have rested their cases. These are "lesser and included", meaning they are lesser elements of the charges already filed and tried. A jury can find negligent homicide on a charge of murder rather than the murder charge, on the evidence already heard from both sides. What they were arguing about here is whether these charges can be included in the judges instructions to the jury. The prosecution and defense will then tailor their closing arguments towards those instructions. The "trial" is over. The judge was saying that he is disinclined to include the reckless endangerment charge because the prosecution hasn't really presented such evidence so if he does instruct the jury on it, his ruling will likely be reversed on appeal.
The judge, prosecution and defence laughing about legal technicalities must be disturbing and surreal for Kyle Rittenhouse.
Literally exactly what I was thinking. Its as if the trial is taking place in his basement
It didn't look like he had a clue what was happening in that room. But how would he at his age.
@@andreabeasley3287 His lawyers probably explained it all to him outside of court. He seems like a fairly simple and naive young man, but I don't think he's stupid.
@@Valelacerte I agree not stupid just a typical young man with limited experience being an adult in a legal process.
Well it’ll change any watchers mind if they were planning on representing themselves 😮
I’ve seen cops fire 8-10 shots to defend their lives…….
In Texas when we use deadly force , we are allowed to empty the clip
While I understand what you're saying, let's not confuse Rittenhouse with someone using deadly force in the line of duty.
@@jajajajenny6428 magazine.
@@jajajajenny6428 f.. Texas 🤡
@@thelion2087 Yes please never go to Texas
The POS prosecutor is loosing big time! Kyle protected himself first from a crazy person and then from vigilantes who were taking the law into their own hands!
All the people he killed where attacking Kyle ...Period.
Self defense
Shouldn’t have been there in the first place .
@@tylopez7606 According to whom? Either way, it's irrelevant to whether one can have the ability to defend themselves?
No, not a "period", although it may be that time of month for you.
The case comes down to the first killing. Did or didn't he kill the first "victim" in self-defense? Because if he did, then the subsequent killing and attempted killing were also in self-defense. But if the first killing was a homicide, then he murdered two people and attempted to murder a third.
It isn't so simple to say, "he was attacked, and therefore had the right to kill in self defense." You don't have the right to pull out a gun in the middle of a fist fight and unload on someone. If you think you do, you don't know the law, and someone ought to confiscate your weapons.
Also, Ty is correct that he shouldn't have been there to begin with. He was unlawfully in possession of an AR-15, and deliberately disregarded the curfew.
@@tylopez7606 irrelevant. nobody should have been there. thats not relevant to self defense.
The drone video is like when you try to show a friend a funny video and they don't laugh or even care.
Exactly 😂
And the joke is so vague you have to explain it to them.
That whole scene with the judge watching the tv.
Big Boy: Play it
Judge: 🕵🏼♂️
Big Boy: (After 1 millisecond) There!!! Did you see it?
Judge: 🤨🤦♂️
Or like when you say there there did you see that after the millionth time then you say oh oh yeah I see it now . You know you didn’t see crap! That’s what the DAs doing with the judge
@@THELOVEOFMYLIFE89 you know that judge didn’t see anything and he knows the jury isn’t going to see anything as well. I can’t wait to see Big Boy use the pointer and show it to the jury a million times.
isnt the fact that kyle was running away from rosenbaum "adequate notice" that he intends to withdraw from the altercation? the phrase adequate notice doesnt have to mean verbal. any act that clearly indicates to rosenbaum a desire to withdraw would meet the definition of adequate notice
Running away from him AND Rosenbaum grabbed the barrel of his rifle.
The Defense should have played the aerial video that shows Rosenbaum coming out from behind the Duramax and running behind R...and closing in on R. THAT'S provocation.
Wasn't enough for Arbery
The problem is he was legally allowed to be there, he was legally allowed to carry his rifle. And if he didn't have it, he would have been killed for trying to stop people from starting a fire, bottom line, he protected himself and if he didn't, he would have been killed. So why self defense wasn't allowed is the problem.
Exactly!
It looks as though the Judge thinks this is a railroad job.
He high
Oh yes he definitely picked up on that, he isn't going to let it be.
I totally agree! I think the judge knows this is political persecution!
It is!!
It isn't?
If it weren’t for doublespeak there would be no need for attorney’s or politicians.
@@dropbearchupacabra7683 This comment has high Dunning-Kruger effect energy. Maybe come back after you've graduated top of your law school lol
@noel meghal what has the accused confessed to?
@@LenLeonardo a better thing to say is that laws could be better written so that you don't need to take X years of law school to understand them, so everyday people can actually understand the law and possibly follow the law better.
@@darkflmmstr did it ever occur to you that maybe its life and human beings that are the complicated ones? Is the case of a woman shooting her husband after being beaten for years to a point of mental snap the same as a women who shoots her husband because she wants his estate to herself? Writing half a line for each case over-simplifies how complex these matters can be but I hope you can understand how different and complicated they would be. The law successfully differentiates these matters but its at the cost of being complicated because you need to know where to draw the line, what is and what isn't relevant and what would be deemed fair or moral by society. So no, it isn't a case of 'laws could be better written' because the law has to follow the complexity of life. We are judged as individuals, not as subjects of the system, and the law helps us to do that. But to best achieve thorough justice, it comes at a cost in the form of time and resources. If you don't like our complicated system you're free to move to China where CCP officials and other powerful people can make you and your whole family disappear completely without much cost or time to them lol
@@LenLeonardo ddue you're making a bigger thing out of this, all i said was laws can be written better so common folk can actually understand them, but if you want me to break down your entire essay about something I wasn't even talk about then I will, but you seem overly hostile about something that wasn't even hostile to begin with.
"did it ever occur to you that maybe its life and human beings that are the complicated ones?" Laws are written in a way that can twisted and easily misunderstood, look at this video for evidence you have like 3 different take aways from the same law, all because of the way it was written.
"Is the case of a woman shooting her husband after being beaten for years to a point of mental snap the same as a women who shoots her husband because she wants his estate to herself?" No, and I never made the claim that it is, context matters, but that kind of context doesn't apply to this trial. It is why killing someone in self-defense is allowed but killing someone for the fun of it isn't.
"Writing half a line for each case over-simplifies how complex these matters can be but I hope you can understand how different and complicated they would be." Writing half a line for a case is one thing, but laws can be written to be more easily understood by the public, using long winded sentences and paragraphs using words that are not commonly used anymore are antiquated ways of speaking just confuses the public and leads them to misunderstand what the law actually entails, which could cause them to break said law without ever realizing it because the way they understood it, it was legal.
"The law successfully differentiates these matters but its at the cost of being complicated because you need to know where to draw the line, what is and what isn't relevant and what would be deemed fair or moral by society." The law being overly complicated tot he point that common folk can't understand its meaning, is the equivalent of having laws written on high pillars so no one can read them, if people can't know or understand the law how do you expect them to follow it. They can have a more lengthy part of the law written but have a more standard understanding for common folk written as well, it isn't something that is overly complicated at all.
"So no, it isn't a case of 'laws could be better written' because the law has to follow the complexity of life." Life and law do not walk hand in hand, just because life is complicated doesn't mean everything in life has to be complicated, that is why we make things to simplify life, look at technology it has made complicated activities and jobs easily done by computers and machines, thus making it less complicated. gain the law can have a more lengthy explanation for use in courts and such to get into the nuances of said law, but a more simple and easily understood explanation should be available for the public and common folk who don't get law degrees or study law so they're able to properly follow it and not have 5 6 7 8 different meaning oft he same law be told them.
"We are judged as individuals, not as subjects of the system, and the law helps us to do that." There are cases that people were not judged as an individual, they were persecuted for various reason whether religious, political, or personal vendettas, the law does not always work in favor of properly giving justice to people solely on the fact that laws can be twisted to mean different things and 1 law can have 10 different meanings.
"But to best achieve thorough justice, it comes at a cost in the form of time and resources." Its fine if a trial take up time, going over evidence, questioning witnesses, reviewing the laws, but to expect all citizens to know every law and every possible meaning of each law, is impossible, without a deep understanding of the law and many years. Common people should be allowed to know what the law is so that they can not break it, making it overly complicated is how you go down a slippery slope to make a system like the CCP, eventually a law will be so out there that people can't understand it and if they speak ill of it, they just so happened to break said law.
"If you don't like our complicated system you're free to move to China where CCP officials and other powerful people can make you and your whole family disappear completely without much cost or time to them lol" Again your comments are overly hostile, I simply stated things can be written to be more simple so common people can understand them, and you blew up over it, as if just stomp on your dog neck. But your non-argument here, doesn't even hold any water, as I stated earlier we constantly work to simplify everything through the use of technology and other inventions, the law should be no different, you shouldn't need 10 years of law school and 10 years working under a lawyer to understand the law, you should be able to look up a law, read it, and it be easily understood by any Joe Shmo. Why saying something that is overly complicated for the sole reason of being able to put innocent people in prison should be simplified so normal people are able to read it and understand makes you angry, makes me question your and the governments motives at keeping it complicated so common people can't understand them. Only reason I can fathom as to why you wouldn't want everyone to understand the law, is so you have the ability to lock up innocent people because they aren't able to understand what they did wrong. Also, stop being so hostile, it isn't that serious, no one is threatening you, no one is attacking you, its a simple conversation and your getting heated under the collar about it.
really disturbing seeing the prosecution bloodlust for this kid when all evidence points to self defense, i mean super disturbing. woke mob justice i guess
It’s not mob justice this guy is in the government
@@andrewmckinlay2964 Sorry if I wasn’t clear. I mean the mob drives the governments sense of justice. The “lawyers” charged this kid without ever fully investigating, all prompted by partisan political shitheels
Defense attorneys get called out for being amoral but imagine having to try tohave people u know are innocent thrown in jail.
Is the prosecutor just adding these charges because he knows he blew the case and is hoping to snag an easier charge?
Yes.
Yeah he's trying for jaywalking if nothing else. Lol. I said it once and I'll say it again he is a knob. I was suspecting that there would be a reasons for investigating the P.A. himself and I've heard rumors that there are.
It's not unusual in homicide cases that they change over time.
I think all level of certain charges were in play. Part of the arguments today were whether, if a certain part of one charge didn't apply, whether it also impacted the lower levels of that same charge.
Yep. Also why they introduced inconclusive blob like pictures and are framing a narrative that no evidence backs up. They don’t care about justice, they care about a conviction because people that they politically agreed with got iced when attacking someone.
Prosecutor- judge were getting our butt's handed to us so we want to charge him with the Kennedy assassination please !
Judge No !
True. The prosecution is fishing for more charges. Gimme a break! They are treating this kid like he's Al Capone.
@@Foczee The fact that the judge is allowing some of it means that they are valid charges although lesser.
@@rvb4187 More like Reasonable suspicion to an extent. If there is any possibility, no matter how minuscule, it has to be included in some way or form, if not to a lesser degree.
😂. Good one 😂
@@Foczee Exactly!!! Truthfully, Kyle acted more mature than men who were twice his age that night. And I believe his intentions were good.. he wanted to help!!
Prosecutors "Smug & Smirk" are flailing and doing a great job for the defense.
Why isn't the felon with a gun who almost shot kyle on trial? Hmmmm
Exactly!!!!!!!!!
You could argue that both of them were defending themselves or others, once the assumption of innocence is applied.
I wouldn’t jail people “just in case.”
@@Spanky00Cheeks He said trial. Learn to read.
@@Spanky00Cheeks well, one guy trying to escape by running vs dozens of guys chasing him and attempting a beating.
I Think self-defense argument can only apply for the lone guy.
I would have prefered the dead guys to be shot in the legs or non lethal body parts, that would have been better for everybody, but you know, when you only have just a second to think about what to do, how to react, it's survival instinct and it's instinct shooting.
Sure he killed peoples, he must pay a bill for this. the first kill near the store may have been avoidable by aiming differently, but in the darkness, with stress, fear, it's easy for me to say this. maybe i would have done the same as he did.
The judge may sentence him with a decade in jail to let him think about what he did this night, but not life sentence and even less capital punishement. Violence engender violence, this is the lesson peoples that night should have learnt.
Because he is not a felon. Have you paid attention to any of the facts of this trial?
this is getting crazy how can they change the charges in the middle of a trial?
@ Michele - because now they see and hear the evidence. Homicide occurred, the question is more about intent.
@@KP-rh5qz Kind of. The word of the day was "provocation." And the road to acquittal got a whole lot harder where that is concerned today.
@@KP-rh5qz Self defence also occured. But that doesn't coincide with the narrative though does it?
@@KP-rh5qz the intent is crystal clear based on all of the evidence. The prosecutors should drop the charges not motion to add more.
“Uh your honor. We’d like to invoke the “grasping at straws” cloture”
no kidding - this whole thing is madness - clearly he is innocent and shouldn't even be there.
*sigh* _overruled Mr. Michelinman Mascot_
53:19 Prosecution: The statute makes no sense.
Judge: If it makes no sense, then you're out of luck! DONE!
Ive never seen a prosecution team flail this badly.
Binger was trying to trap him into this with his own instance, multiple times, in questioning.
Just like Wile E Coyote
Only because the defense trapped Gaige numerous times haha
I don't believe "lesser charges" should be allowed unless both sides agree. The Prosecutor benefits from lesser charges to salvage any conviction on a weak trial performance. The defendant benefits if he knows he's guilty and would rather plea for the lower crime. But that should happen in a plea deal before a trial. No charges should be altered after trial has started. It's too much of an advantage for the state. They have a whole year to investigate and decide proper charges.
Exactly!
The Prosecution pushed a 1st Degree Murder Charge all of this time and now that he's not only failed to prove this Charge, his own Witnesses actually helped Kyle. So NOW the Prosecutor is wanting Lesser Charges. And when these charges don't stick, is the Prosecution going to ask that he be charged with Jaywalking? Wearing his hat backward? Spitting on the sidewalk?
So glad I don't have to watch 11 ads on a public Access channel for this trial.
Not sure if sarcasm.
Either way Premium solves that😉
@@redbeardreturns3550 no not sarcasm and no I don't pay for premium. RUclips vanced screw commietube
The duty to retreat talk was good to. The state trying to say he could have kept running. Them saying the crowd didn’t exists. Then they play the video as if they just exposed the defendant and you clearly see the crowd smashing vehicles and he has no where to run.
Then big boy says: see right there, he could have ran just like he’s doing.
Judge: Ya they cleared away cause he just shot Mr. Rosenbaum. 🤦♂️
If Kyle was a police officer in the same scenario he would be getting a promotion and a award for surviving a mob attack.
And there you go. kyle is not a police officer. A officer WOULD NEVER DO WHAT KYLE DID....
@@james123stewart really makes you question the notion that police are “heroes”
Free Kyle. Self defense is NOT a crime.
The prosecution makes me doubt the fairness of the law.
Its why so many innocent people have been exonerated through DNA...you know people who were charged before DNA testin was discovered. The steven averys of the world. The central park fives of the world etc etc. Now they know they have to plant DNA if anything like they did to steven avery on his second trial on the hood latch of Theresa's car. If you havent figured it out by now....prosecutors have no souls. They are not about justice they are about conviction rates to further their careers.
He shouldn’t of been there. Having said that, it’s still self defense
Yes thanks judge
Exactly! Short and to the point. Now let him go
In fairness…..should ANY of them been there?
He had every right to be there.
The two Prosecutors need to be disbarred and never allowed to even step in a courtroom again
agreed! and hold them in contempt!
I watched it live. His life was extremely at risk!
In person?
@@jacklaurentius6130 Nah man live is video.
Was it from a different angle than what was already shown? Link the video if so.
@@johndoe-bo7rx the verbal commands they were shouting to engage an attack on Kyle. There’s more than one video. The person filming I watched was giving verbal commands. Fb as always.
@@jacklaurentius6130 it was live on fb. They were shouting commands to engage an attack on Kyle.
Judge attempting to crack jokes while a guys life hangs in the balance
just another day at the office
Yes, he should be a cold calculating machine, like the amazon PC's monitoring employees numbers
Based
He is a judge every day. If you cannot regularly find humor in your life, it is time to re-evaluate your life.
Worse yet... after two lives were lost to this little fk.
Stating "I didn't want to kill anyone" then having multiple people chase you with weapons attempting to kill you, then using a weapon in self defense. One can still not WANT to kill them but also know that if they don't they themselves will be killed.
Very true. What really got me was when the da was talking about the skateboard and kept asking if the guy had a bat or a club. What is a skateboard that can weigh 3-10 pounds depending on the model that is made from wood and metal, if not a club or a bat? Its a deadly weapon when you use it as such. Period.
@@badmandansanchez1823 Especially with an edge to the base of the skull. That is a kill shot without a weapon and with the ridge hand. It's kind of where the spine meets the brain so, not sure why that is not more recognized.
The prosecutors are grasping at straws.
Exactly
Grasping at air more like it.
So obvious its comical.
I personally know a guy who saw a girl getting beat up. He stepped into stop it and another dude came out of a car and shot him over 20 times. I have no idea how but he lived. He walks with a limp now but at least he's mobile. I know another guy who got shot in the chest once and died on the spot. The guy who got shot in the chest once lived his entire life screwing people over and robbing anything and anyone. Finally caught up with him. The guy who shot him was owed $100 and killed him over that. there is no guarantee that four shots will kill somebody. You can't possibly know that as a definite fact especially in a case of self-defense where everything happens in a flash.
Moral, don't be a whiteknight or you might get shot 20 times
Prayers and love to Kyle and his family .Justice for Kyle …
What this proves . Ziminski fired first.
Who cares? Why is the kid who's looking for trouble there in the first place? No one wants to answer that question.
@@Afr0Thund3r he wasn't looking for trouble he had a first aid kit and fire extinguisher. If that's your claim, then why did a convicted felon bring a gun to a riot, if not to intend to use it? Do you see how ignorant that sounds? That's basically saying that anyone that conceal carries is looking for trouble for conceal carry of a weapon in a public place
@@Afr0Thund3r Cleaning graffiti, using that big orange/red medical bag to render aid and to support the others in guarding property.
Question answered :)
Loaded question: what were the rioters there for?
@@ThatMichaelTGuy You mean the protestors? Kid's not trained to clean graffiti, pretend to be an EMT, or act as a security guard.Try again Mikey.
@@Afr0Thund3r "Trained to clean graffiti!" Hilarious... Look out for the thunder!
Looking forward to the sheepish look on the prosecutions face when Not guilty is pronounced.
I noticed James Kraus did the talking today. What happened with Binger?
@@martqbd Binger is a Weasel
It’s guilty as ever
@@Asencion Guilty of Defending himself. First guy tried to take his rifle so he defended himself. Second guy assaulted him with a skateboard used as a deadly weapon, so he defended himself. Third guy pointed a gun at him, so he defended himself. Even a blind person can see this is self defense.
Me too
Never saw an “accused” killer stand directly behind a judge w or w out being in handcuffs . In this case w out .
Yes. And I think the judge knows that Kyle really isn't a killer. Otherwise he'd be afraid to have him stand behind him. I am hoping the jury finds him not guilty on all counts, and I'm not sure, but doesn't the judge actually have the final say, as in he can override the jury?
Splitting hairs here. We are past the point of accused killer. Nobody is in dispute that he killed those people. The issue here besides of course it being a political trial... Is whether or not it was self-defense or murder. .
John Gotti?
He’s not a danger to society he defended his life what’s the need for cuffs he has no criminal record lol. Have you seen the video?
I noticed and thought the same thing. Rather unusual, not even a baliff in sight.
I'm sorry but if the jury comes out with anything other than self-defense and dismissal of ALL charges it'll be because they're afraid and that's not how the law is supposed to work. It's not supposed to be 'jury decision by mob intimidation'.
And if he goes free, as he should, and the crazies decide they're going to riot because they disagree with the decision, then put them in jail Treat them like the rioting protesters that they are.
@OLDSKOOL978 That wouldn't fly in any courtroom ever. You don't defend yourself from someone with a gun by chasing them across a parking lot. You retreat. Wisconsin is not a 'stand your ground' state, so Rosenbaum had a *duty* to retreat before he could claim any action was self defense. Nice try though.
They should have made more of an example of the guy who took pictures of the jurors
@@FLAMINGBABYHEAD then rittenhouse should have retreated.
@OLDSKOOL978 I think it's so funny that democrats are defending a child molester who was attacking another kid under 18. Probably because they share similar traits. It's poetic justice that a child shot a child molester in his wanker and peanuts. I hope it hurt sooooo bad!
@@serenityb5816 he did. it's on video. You don't want to see it but it's there and people who aren't biased can.
In an effort to restore our dignity, because this is obviously a case of self defense, we would like to charge him for things that COULD have happened if the things that DID happen wouldn’t have happened………we rest our case!!
Rosenbaum blood alcohol level should have been allowed in. OFF THE CHARTS and he was off his meds.
Funny how there's been no mention of your claims 🤔
This is how you treat a hero saving our country from a massive riot!?
If someone points a gun at you, you run away not towards them!
Yeah,so you can get shot in the back instead lmfao
@@tommilitello198 true, but less chance than if you run towards them!
So at worst he's facing a minor gun charge and probably a $1k fine.
That’s the only crime he committed
I don't see the judge granting this at all. He seems fair and he knows they are doing this because they are losing
Kyle will probably end up with a charge of driving without a licence🙈🤷♂️🤣🤣🤣
😂😅😆🤣😆😅😂
Look at how the lawyers try to twist reality based on imaginary feelings
I look at that kid and just want to hug him and his mom so much. My daughter was born almost exactly the same day as Kyle, January 2003, so she's literally the same age. I look at my own innocent daughter and Kyle's innocence, and can't even imagine what he and his family has gone through and still going through. 😭😭😭 May God continue to watch over him and protect him and guide the jury to truth and justice and fairness, and find him NOT GUILTY on all charges 🙏.
He had a AR ILLEGALLY LOL
@@LetMeTellUSomething... what do these ppl not understand 🤦🏿♀️
@@LetMeTellUSomething... what about the kid who was pointing a gun at him?
@@martianl5806 who did that person kill......
And if found guilty charge appropriately
Amen!! He was a good Samaritan. Went to help protect his community. Inmocent/ self defense!!
"I know that we were supposed to prove the barrel was not the right length; but since we didn't do that, it kind of sinks our case, so we would now like it to not do that."
Provoked Rosenbaum by pointing a gun at Zaminski, who they refuse to call to the stand to give testimony. I am willing to accept evidence, but this is sheer desperation from the prosecution.
too bad it happened in Kenosha. if this occurred in Texas and you were attacked like Kyle was the case would never go to trial. here in Texas we have the right to use whatever force is necessary to protect life and property and that is one reason you don't see these punks rioting and destroying property even in our most liberal big cities. they tried it once and were shut down in a hurry.
I love Texas
he still couldn’t own the gun at the time. it’s not like someone broke in his house and he grabbed the gun . he could not own it that’s the crime even if it’s self defense
@@jprosey The issue of possessing the gun was discussed today. There is a section in the law that allows a 17year old something..... I don't remember. I do think that will be argued in closing arguments if the judge doesn't remove it if he can.
Same for here in Tennessee, this is absolutely ridiculous. This kid blatantly defended himself.
Texas is like the True American Way. I hope more states would tough up and actually follow suit. We need more "American" states
This judge has been a trip through the whole trial. Everything from asking the jury if the KFC lunch was any good, to him reaming the prosecution about amendment rights, him laughing throughout the trial and now this. I don't know if I love him or hate him. Either way, I think Rittenhouse acted in self defense.
Abonanno24601, great comment!
How can you not see this was self defense? He was not aggressive ONCE until the moment he was attacked. He did not shoot until the SECOND he was being attacked, as ALL video evidence supports.
@@kosnich8032 Why thank you.
Maybe not guilty of murder but he recklessly endangered lives when he went into that situation with an assault rifle. Was the use of the assault rifle a reasonable response to the threat posed? Of course he was threatened but the questions of proportionality needs to be answered. Its usually a pretty high threshold when people are killed. I think he should be found guilty to some of the lesser charges. Maybe spend 5 years or so in jail. After all, 2 people are dead.
@@lehawk100 the people he killed were using lethal force against him. Lethal force is proper retaliation
Watching the trial that has been shown......this Judge has FORGOTTEN MORE THAN HIS CRITICS EVER KNEW!!!!! IF THE ROLE WAS REVERSED, CRITICS WOULD LOVE THIS MAN!!!!!
If I was on the jury, I would be expressing...How the heck do you know who are in these videos? Can't possible make positive identification!!
thank God for this judge!
Let's all support Kyle's lawsuit against the media !
He likely doesn't have a case against the media.
@@cobbler88 Thank You Perry Mason 🤣
@@joelonzello4189 This isn't like Nick Sandmann. Sandmann was never charged with anything. Kyle actually got charged with a felony. Good luck proving that the media is responsible for public opinion of a person who the state charged with several counts, including murder.
it doesn't matter what the outcome is going to be....
America just displays itself one more time as a banana republic where it's society has to run around with firearms as if they were in north west Africa, Guatemala or the Middle East.......
Kids gonna be rich af if he is acquitted.
It was almost comical how hard the prosecution worked to get at least the misdemeanor charge of a minor with a weapon to stick. They know that's all they have.
Yup! He’s absolutely going to see a weapons charge. Misdemeanor. Hopefully the jury is “reasonable”.
There's a reason for that. In Wisconsin if you are found guilty of a weapons charge the self defense argument cannot be used. It's a long shot, but that's why they are hoping for that
@@jonharwood1639 Yeah after watching the entire trial while I approve of what Kyle was trying to do the fact that he was allowed to have access to a gun and walk the public streets with it was a terrible judgment call
@@jonharwood1639 Got it, thanks.
@@lady2550 Yes it is. When I made my comment I was getting information that he had crossed state lines with the gun and wasn’t 18. There was a lot of BS coming out. I’m extremely happy Kyle was found not guilty.
The utter disregard here is being shown by the prosecutor not the kid
Presecutors are so bad. But thats what it looks like when you have no case.
No case for a punk kid traveling to another community with an illegal assault rifle and killed 2 people. Wow
@@MrBryantp punk kid putting out fires > punk adults lighting the town on fire
Omg these prosecutors are so bloody boring they have nothing in this case. The Jury should let this young man walk. 🇬🇧
This Judge is just laughing at these slimball prosecutors.
This judge is great! He walked around the point for like 20 mins with these dummies, and is just like yes i understand you are saying that but i disagree and will not hear your objections HAHAHA
So true! Well said.
I use fmj for target shooting. Defense rounds the hallow points still can pass thru if it doesn't hit bone. Fmj won't always pass thru also. These lawyers need a expert on ammo.
There were no good answers for Kyle. If he had used hollow points or light jacketed frangible rounds, the prosecutor would have argued that he went out with the intent of causing the most lethal wounds possible. But he had standard ball ammo so he had to argue that he had no regard for the safety of passersby. It just doesn't matter what KyIe's answer is, it's going to be used against him in a court of law. I would not have answered any of that guys questions after I said my piece.
with an ar in 5.56 its very common to just use fmj police and military use it also i see no way that using a standard round is worse i have heard of cases were they tried to say using hollow points ment they wanted to kill. all of there arguments are just crazy to me. i agree they need an ammo expert
I agree
@@thekillerirish isn't Kyle's ar a 223, i remember a few different people say throughout the trial I'm pretty sure.
@@thekillerirish I’ve a “friend” who alternates rounds in some of his mags… in case purp trying to kill him is using an obstacle as a ‘shield’ while shooting at him… the FMG would stand the better chance of penetrating the ‘shield’… kinda makes sense to me…IF in that circumstance….
Should be dismissed, DA’s in this case are incompetent!
So in a matter of seconds you have to defend yourself you need to recklessly look around for bystanders.
Yes that's what the law says
this judge is truly an amazing judge, and I myself have been in the system and stood in front of a judge in the 3rd district juvenile courts, and it makes me happy to see that there are honest and fair judges out there such as this judge
Of course he had regard for life, look how well he protected his own. Let the boy go and write him a fat check on the way out for his troubles.
He also administered first aid and would have administered it to Rosenbaum too except that there was a group of people heading his way who were also trying to attack him.
So, he is supposed to allow his attackers to have total disregard for HIS life...but not have regard for his own life...ludicrous
I don’t think if I was 17 & in that circus I would be as mature
I agree, he is quite an amazing fella. I definitely was no way near it.
I can see now why it's not recommended to let the defendant speak. This is a pretty clear cut case of self defense but now they're throwing BS lesser charges at him based of some answers that were given to extremely charged questions.
Yep, they twisted everything. They are by no means men that believe in upholding the law.
how can you be "defending" yourself with a weapon that you are not allowed to have and you brought to try to shoot someone?
@@thewhovian439 he should have let the mob kill him?
@@thewhovian439 because none of what you said is true.
@@chrisk6668 oh hmm interesting take. usually if you are defending something and you take a weapon to do so then you are planning on using it but i guess in this case he took it for fun.
Lesser charges should be thrown out. UNDERAGE LIVES MATTER
I would rather have lesser charges than the greater charges.
@@KP-rh5qz not in this scenario. The lesser charges will only hurt him and will secure a guilty verdict.
Ignorant
I'm very interested in the jury's decision.
It's gonna fall straight along political party lines.
You and everyone else watching.
How can u say Kyle had disregarded, Kyle was in a hot spot, he was defending himself. Please if these lawyers were attacked they would do the same thing protect themselves. I like to see them in a back street with a street gang if they would pul a gun out to protect themselves.