Variable Valves are Bad for the BMW R1250GS - Review
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- Опубликовано: 24 мар 2020
- BMW’s new R1250GS might come guaranteed to solve your midlife crisis but side effects include fried credit cards and a sudden urge to behave like Ewan McGregor.
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Wow BMW is never letting Ryan review another Beemer ever again after this massacre
watch his review of the 800 gs
Its not like you need their permission to review it.
Yeah beemer wants nothing to do with us. Hence: "Thanks to our buddies at CycleBC" for lending us the bike. ~RF9
@@FortNine It's almost like BMW takes issue with honesty.... Who'd have thought?
I don’t think BMW are going to be crying into their cornflakes over this. They shift these bikes every day 🤷🏻♂️
That Heisenberg's uncertainty principle joke was genius!
He was making the joke when I saw this
Say my name
Indeed
One of my favourite F9 moments!
He studied physics back then
Ryan, so much respect for making this review. It's telling that BMW is afraid of letting one of the most trusted motorcycle channels on youtube review their bikes. In the end, that's going to come back to bite them (and I say this as a happy owner of an old BMW).
I get your point but consider this- I love my BMWs as much as I love my Harleys. As much as I respect Ryan, he could say a BMW is the worst bike in the world and it wouldn't matter. And it is clear that overall he has a lot of respect for them.
Next : " our sales are down 30% Helmutt , why?? Why???
- its not my fault Herr Schnafell !! It was that guy in youtube!! "
Nine, Nine, Nine..! 🇩🇪
@Oscar Bauer It is FortNine mein liebe...
ruclips.net/video/5lbGAzo9RrM/видео.html
@@robertpolkamp I opened the comment to make this pun
Herr Kluftinger von Kanada? Nein, Nein, Nein... Fort mit ihm.
Racist.
"That's the motorcycle reviewing me-"
The writing on this show. A+
Tyler Hauth seriously.
in mother Russia motorcycle reviews people - reminded me this pun
“Can’t know the location and speed at the same time”
Ryan F9: quantum physicist
Ryan Heisenberg F9
Haha he's an electron
Has an undergraduate degree in physics if i recall correctly.
@@tempestandacomputer6951 you right
Cant believe i missed that one!
This was just too good for youtube!!! You guys deserve a TV-show
Thomas Rasmussen Nah tv will be dead soon, youtube is the new tv. But I get your point 🍻
@@BernardoBerndsen Agreed! Thing is, when I say TV show, I exclusively think of streaming services witch I regard the "new" TV. Haven't had a single scheduled TV channel in my house for years
no please.
I totally agree
@@BernardoBerndsen Lol RUclips is dead soon. Something new is gonna come and whipe this shitty site to the ground, something without 10 commercials
I think for an ADV, reliability would be my number one concern. So I'd probably be going for one of the Japanese options.
It definitely matters but the absolute most important thing is to a have a stable platform that doesn't change much that can support a robust aftermarket of accessories to make these machines into world conquerors, in the ADV segment what you can strap to the bike matters a ton and Many GS BMWs are sold because the choices in the aftermarket are huge
i agree. Complexity bleeds failure rates and difficult repairs. It can be done well enough to not do the first part nearly as much, but the second part gets worse as a result.
Africa Twin or the Tenere, no brainer
@@Cambone13 LOL ...... good luck with that "Africa twin fuel pump" ...... and that's a recall nightmare .....................
I would go for the Ducati DesertX, I like to live on the edge.
At 1:10 - "we push cruddy air out... Sorry Greta." Classic Ryan F9. Sharp and witty in the moment with just few words. The man is a Genius! I'm not Canadian, but if he runs for PM of Canada, I'd vote for him!👍👍👍👍
They vote in Canada?
Let’s not forget Al Gore’s nightmare ;). True. Burning fuel is bad but it’s still hilarious
Don't forget Al Gore's nightmare.
I was still chuckling over Al Gore’s nightmare when he said this!
I am Canadian, and I’m hoping he runs for office!
The level of raw, practical, functional knowledge combined with the consistent writing and delivery of this show continues to astonish me. New F9 videos are legitimately one of my favorite experiences. Two thumbs up to the whole team at #FortNine
Can't endorse this sentiment enough. 💪💪
for me F9 is the new TopGear from olden days...
“AL GORES NIGHTMARE” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 “sorry Greta” Ryan u crack me up bro
dem juicy view💲
Thank you for the great explanation on how BMW's version of VVT , VVD, VVL ... all the VV's work and their short comings. I love your videos and your no bullshit approach! I do not disagree with your overall assessment. But to be frank I do own a 2019 R1250 GS and the reason I chose it over other bikes is simply that it fits me and my needs (2 up long distance trips with camping gear for 3 to 4 weeks at a time) better than others on the market when I bought it. (Who knows what the future will bring!)
There are a few details I disagree with. The GPS blocking the view of the speedometer is an easy fix. If you own the BMW GPS just set the screen to speedometer. I don't need to see where I am all of the time. If you don't own the GPS simply remove the cradle. The Hill Assist is engaged when you squeeze the bake lever hard and all you have to do to disengage it is squeeze the lever again and you are free to move the bike as you wish. I personally find it useless and avoid engaging it. The worst update is the Gear Shift Assist Pro, It does not work well at all on the upshift and makes shifting very abrupt. On the downshift it works okay. It is not really usable below 3rd gear. If I could have bought the bike without it I would have. The good thing is all you have to do to avoid it is use the clutch to shift! Reliability, there have been many problems over the past with faulty receiver antennas for the chip key, warping brake discs, leaky seals at the drive shaft and yes drive shaft failure to name a few. And if you think that they have all been taken care of think again. You still have to replace the driveshaft at 100,000 miles because it will fail. It can not last forever since it has sealed u joints that can not be greased. It is not a perfect bike because as everyone knows the perfect bike doesn't exist. So am I worried about the electronic actuation of the shift cam breaking? Yes. Is it a deterrent? No. There are other things that worry me more than a motor that is out of sync while I limp home. What if the TFT screen breaks and I can no longer adjust any of the parameters and have no access to any information. Will that shut down the bike? What if the electronically adjusted suspension breaks? I think I can still get home. But most of all what if the fly by wire throttle breaks? Now that will leave me stranded and that is my number one worry! But would a bike from a different brand in the same category be more reliable? Triumph has fly by wire, KTM has fly by wire, Yamaha has fly by wire and now even Suzuki.
So is BMW the benchmark bike for technology? No! Is their new Shift Cam a technological advancement? Not really. But I have to say it performs well and the R1250GS is a well rounded bike that suits my needs and since I could afford it at the present time I decided to splurge. As for the lull in power I have to admit that I have not noticed it in the 7,000 kms I have put on the bike so far. I certainly will be looking for it now!
Final note, today's large adventure bikes from the major manufacturers have a plethora of electronic aids that in my opinion limit their lifespan. I simply don't think that they are being built to be around 30 to 40 years from now.
To Ryan F9 and the entire team at Fortnine, Keep up the great work, I really enjoy all of your videos they are extremely well done. Bravo!
I think what it comes down to that the GS is the best bike if you have the money and the time to make good use of your miles. BMW sells a lifestyle, that's why the GS is so popular, it gives people who can afford it the feeling that they can go on adventures. I personally think the GS is the very best bike out there but I think there are better bikes if you are not willing to pay the premium.
Well said. Is ABS failure now a thing of the past ? Regards. Trinidad & Tobago.
I'm more happy with a Varadero-1000 from the 20s than a guy with a new GS where i live
@@henkondemand it's why jeeps and Tacoma's hold there value so well too, having a robust trusted 3rd party and community on a platform that doesn't change so much that people can identify the issues as they come up is huge and worth it's weight in gold,
"We push cruddy air out.....sorry Greta"
"Our piston expels Al Gore's nigthmare"
These are the quotes that keep me coming back! Oh, and the unbiased reviews and technical expertise - can't forget that 😉
I spit out my coffee at the Al Gore thing.
Oh god these were beautiful
Al Gore's 'nightmare' made him millions trading carbon credits. Should have been locked up.
And the production quality😉
Don't forget the continuously variable front brake caliper leakage...
The production of these videos is spectacular -- the music, the choreography, the editing, and of course the content. Stupendous.
Ryan's honesty is what irks the moto-marketers, and endears him to those of us that ride. The writing and production though, makes these little movies worth watching for any and all...
"A dyslexic nightmare but a dual sport dream"
-RyanF9
Finally a brutally honest review of all stuff that can break..
But, will it break? I am not sure about ti, the time will tell..
@@motolover5697 - It is electronic - any failure is not repairable, only replaceable, but where you are could mean disaster.....
It's electronic therefore the computer will know by position sensors etc.. I would be extremely surprised if they haven't thought about any issues like that.
@MagicAyrtonforever the point is that this is supposed to be a bike to travel EVERYWHERE, that means more parts ( worse if its electronics ) = more risk of failure. That's not a problem for the 89.9% of 1250 GS, that go home-work or trips only on higways. But for the people that use this bike as advertised by BMW and go in places several hundreds of km away from the nearest city, or in places far away from offical retailers, if something like that breaks u are in a big trouble man.
@@motolover5697 I've worked as a mechanic for over a decade. More shit = more shit that can go wrong. Will it break, that remains to be seen. Can it break? Yes. But then I suppose the same could be said for anything. I would argue mechanical is 'A' easier to diagnose and 'B' easier to fix when you're on the side of the road. Most people aren't going to be able to jerry rig an electrical issue unless they're an engineer with a wiring diagram.
On most channels new tech gets praised as the solution to everything, nice to see you putting your word out against needless complexity. Stuff like this special oil cap need a special kind of engineer to come up with, ridiculous. Kee up your great work :)
@Johnny Blue It does, but it's outdated technology as far as the valve configuration. The needlessly complex is the hill support that cannot be disabled and some sort out unique oil cap.
It s actually neither needless and nor complex as Ryan showed it, it s an old technology but a very useful one. The point was the design, the electronics that actuates it, more electronics to go wrong and then what. But I think the electronics nowadays have enough quality control to be reliable and safe (ABS modules and such). I think the price is the real minus, they took advantage of an old technology and gadgets as the hill start which again is an old technology too to up the price by a lot.
I am new to riding and bought a friend's 2012 1200GS oilhead - for me the perfect balance between refinement and robustness.
Yes, I broke the stupid oil plug first time it required oil - had a buddy turn a solid aluminium one that is tightened by hand or wrench if stuck.
I do admire the led lighting on the new bike though!
Engineers don´t come up with oil caps like that, at least not on their own. Managers do, to get more money out of the same product.
Every gs has got a toolkit with the right tool for the oil cap. But nowadays people feel overwhelmed with it.
Brilliant! A man after my own heart. May the honesty never stop, Herr Kluftinger!
When I first saw the solenoid, my reaction was “what idiot puts electrical devices in a high heat environment like that ???”.
Nice single point failure mode !
Nice review of the situation 👍
Exactly my point!
Bmw is known for putting plastic in engine compartments. They do it in their cars as well. Thats why I don't buy BMWs. They start to fall apart to early. I haven't heard of anyone working on their own 1250 gs unless it's something small. Never on the engine like the 1200 gs
Bmw does
I think if you have to have a gs get the 1200. You can do most of the maintenance yourself. They last if your not hard on them.
@@milesdavis8665 well unfortunately its not just the bmw, nowdays most everyone puts plastic peaces into car engines
This mans honesty is why he's at the top of the list. The other guys continue to enjoy their paid for mini vacations and nice press rides and then don't say shit in fear of never returning. I have yet to hear anyone mention the feeling of that powerband.
dbtrackz33 I feel like the motorcycle community is going to have it’s own version of “Gamergate” very soon.
🙏 ah-men
Honesty? This is about as dishonest a review as I've found for this motorcycle. He is really, really, reaaallly trying hard to find fault with this bike and it shows. He has an agenda just like the other reviewers you don't like, it's just that his runs the opposite direction.
@@suburbanhobbyist2752 so the dyno and that shitty powerband is dishonest and fake?
@@dbtrackz33 Nope, the dyno is real but the emphasis and over the top rhetoric he places on the test gives him away. Anything he can find, in his opinion, wrong at all with the bike makes him all giddy. Most of the other things he points out are a huge stretch that nobody cares about but he acts like they are major flaws. Sorry Fortnine but this motorcycle is awesome and yours is now outdated and second place in comparison. It's just how it is.
Bought mine in February 2019, and had to have them pick it up a month later when it shut down after starting, with a ShiftCam error. The computer believed it failed to fully engage in High-HP mode (when it does initial tests, on start) and shut itself down for safety. Haven't had an issue since, but gave me *severe* pause for a bike I'd otherwise been loving.
Now it's been another year and I haven't had any issues at all - I turned off the auto-hillstart right away, and it's super easy to manually engage when I want to, but otherwise the bike has been amazing. I use it exclusively on roads and highways, and it's the most comfortable bike I've ridden.
Jake my skid plate and crash bars say otherwise. Or at least what’s left of them ha
Well I'm a BMW motorrad tech in the UK, And we are the Number one dealer in the UK, We have not had a single shift cam actuator fail yet.. and we have seen some bikes with 60k+ miles already.. just saying..
j0rzeh: Good on you! My 1200R Sport will be seeing the inside of a Motorrad dealership for its MOT and 4 year service when this is all over.
In Ryan’s defence he makes a very entertaining and informative video. But I’d still have the GS. 11 years of 1150GS ownership and travels all over Europe is enough to convince me of BMW’s superior credentials. And their dealerships are pretty good places too 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
not the point, get it, it is the cost. plus you clearly are biased
He never said it WILL fail. He said it COULD fail. A very different distinction. As a tech, you typically deal with bikes less than 2 years old. I know, because, I am one as well. The rest of the planet has the 10 year old variety and has to deal with the consequences of these silly engineering decisions.
The secondary point is that it is needless complexity. A GS1250 has already way more power than it needs to for the PURPOSE of it's existence. Why add complexity when the only gain isn't needed?
If the PURPOSE is to go around the world, I'd take 1/2 the HP for an air cooled, belt drive, hydraulic tappet, no gadgets bike. Decent analog suspension, and a few spare parts. No Motorrad helicopter and credit card needed.IMO.
@@shogginr557 BMW Made the shift cam a simple design so it wouldn't fail, It's just a Magnet, highly unlikely to fail. As a Tech I deal with bikes of all ages we often see 15 year old bikes even R80's come into our dealership, Also I worked as a CNC design Engineer building Cummings engines for the MOD prior to BMW and I used to design Turbo's for Garrett so I think I have decent grasp of engine design It's the throttle bodies that fail. Also I'm not Bias towards BMW at all in-fact I'm a KTM guy all day, But you cannot call tech that hasn't failed yet? I mean come on!.
@@j0rzeh But, what have you done for me lately?
Great review Ryan, when you consider that most GS’s are mostly used for touring there are much cheaper options out there but for similar money the new 2020 XR gives impeccable performance and also puts a smile on your face!
I gotta say, FORGET about the bike...I love seeing how far you've come! Your review became something that should be in like a "The Bike Section" in Top-Gear/The Grand Tour!
Well done Ryan (and the entire FortNine team of course!) Keep it up!!
Actually, the new Top Gear could be proud if it was "The Car Section" on FortNine.
8:30 What the actual hell is this. Are manufacturers going THIS far to stop people from working on their own machines?
What posible reason/justification could there be for that fuckery?
That´s a safety feature. It prevents people from messing with your bike and stealing the screw. I had parked my Honda on the street for two decades. The number of stolen screws for the oil tank was excessive. Including the one they didn´t steal yesterday the count is now up to zero.
Maybe the special key helps the manufacturer to make some desparately needed income too.
@@maxlutz3674 That's got to be the stooopidest thing posted here in a long time. Who steals oil screws? And now that Beemer has made a proprietary one, it will be that much more attractive to those that do.
@@shlomoid just because I got it for free doesn't mean I want it.
That's the shady part of bmw. Also if you change the engine oil of your brand new bmw with any other brand(non bmw but same grade) then your warranty is gone. If your bikes mechanical parts fail after that you will have to shell out a fortune to pay for the repairs.
For services as well as accidental repairs, you have nowhere else to go but to a bmw service centre.
This channel produces pure gold
They are the philosophers stone
Brutally honest review another great video! I loved the engine explanation as well really gave insight into the workings and reasoning behind your review.
Finally someone willing to take a shot at the almighty GS1250. I love your honesty Ryan!
I had vstrom 1000 before the 1250, the difference is oceanic, let's hope their new valves are spectacular
The oil tool is under the seat
Yes the oil filler cap tool is the screwdriver handle under the seat. For a hacklife promoter, Ryan just hated BMW. Not sure why, they’ve led the tech boom for bikes for over a decade. But then again, he likes the Krios.
@@kenmartin613 right but I think his point was that it's proprietary for no good reason. If you lose your screwdriver... you're... screwed?
@@CanonMatters2Me they've led the tech boom...and led in electronics unreliability too...
2:53 true canadian in that volvo
I've owned a Honda VFR800 for 90,000km so far. I still think that VTEC is a solution to a problem nobody actually had. There is no way that you could ever accuse it of being smooth when it transitions. I love the bike, but I do prefer the KISS principle more though. I'm not quite grey enough to make the leap to a Beemer....yet. Excellent review, I'll repeat what everyone else says, you deserve a paying gig for your quality of program.
Another great vid Ryan, keep up the good work! Biggest diff w GS's is post 2013 going from oil to water cool and all the tech extras. I own 2016 GS 1200 and don't see the need for the 1250 "upgrades". This bike is so great, hard to make better. Excited to see what they can do in the electric space.
BMW was kinda forced into this. The #1 complaint from GS riders is "OMG WE NEED MOAR POWER THE 1290 SUPER ADVENTURE HAS 160HP!!" It's absurd, but these are customers spending LOTS of money and much as BMW would like to ignore them, something needed to be done. But we're dealing with a boxer engine better suited for a tractor than a pretend-superbike performance, while at the same time going to be used worldwide with widely different grades and qualities of fuel. Hence, the Shiftcam. People get their moar power when they make the poor engine start screaming at >5000 rpm, but for 99.8% of the bike's intended operation (low revs with gobs of torque) it remains the same as the previous R1200GS - in other words, perfect. For most GS owners, it was a convenient excuse to trade up to a new bike. Signed, a 2018 R1200GS owner who got it at a great deal because everyone skipped this one waiting for the 1250. And the funniest thing - I traded up from a V-Strom to the GS, whereas if I had been a bit more patient, I could have had the new V-Strom (best bang for the buck motorcycle on the planet) and been quite satisfied
The whole horsepower thing is ridiculous anyways and luckily the market is answering with stuff like a T700 and Honda with a proposed smaller displacement Africa Twin. Sadly the vstrom sucks a tad bit too much off-road, the suspension travel is too short and ground clearance is too little; they should throw in some more of that DR BIG DNA.
Not to mention that the 100HP+ crowd is also the crowd that literally enable a power restriction with their drive mode, it's literally just choking off all that power (which you couldn't get enough of in the first place).
Very truly said. The shift cam was marketed here as being able to give a better fuel economy in traffic in India. India is a very fuel economy focused country due to much much higher fuel costs and lower earnings given our cost of other things is also much cheaper here. So in that sense even i would find the new GS a good upgrade. Also they would have an option to turn off anti roll back right? Right?
Very well written sir !!
@@adityathakoor4922 For fuel economy and as a commuter maxi scoots are king, any bigger clogged European city in the warmer climates has tons of maxi scoots and MP3's darting around in traffic.
If fuel cost is a worry to you, you probably aren't in the market for a 20k+ bike anyways. By comparison that 125CC Honda engine that's used in the Monkey/MSX125 uses something like 1L/50km compared to the 1L/20km the average big bike runs, maxi scoots come in at around 1L/35km.
aditya thakoor unless something was changed on the 1250 (I doubt it) every rider aid on the GS can be turned off
I just liked a video where Ryan trashed my new bike. Oh the humanity.
Mine, too, still enjoyed the bashing
meh, the fact of the matter is that 99% of these bikes will never see that "round the world" travel he is talking about or even that much dirt. BMW know's that their primary audience are people that want the look of these bikes more than their off-road or 3rd world functionality.
Doctors and dentists well over 50s 😂
This is what I like about you Beemer boys and girls that made me want to become one. You can take a joke and you can take a punch without gettin' all bent outta shape, especially when it's deserved. Try that on the Harley guys and yeeesh, the reactions.
@@imbologna meh I know my Harley isn't the best bike out there. Would be nice if HD could put some real tech in it...
But I'll take the hit for the look and sound 🤣
Use the screwdriver handle to open the oil cap. Also if you depress the brake lever again to release the hill start control
or you can turn off that feature from the screen _-o-_
@@JCBigCat which u dont need so the price is kept low. LOL
@@JinKazama92 I use the "hill assist" all the time at stop lights so that I don't need to hold down the foot brake the entire time that I am stopped. It doesn't engage unless you pull and hold the front brake for a couple seconds while stopped, and it disengages by itself on either throttle input or tapping the brake again. They are not allowed to call it a "parking brake" though, so its "hill assist"
@@jddevinn It's not a parking brake 'cos it disengages when the ignition is turned off.
Your reviews of motorcycles is genius. Fair honest evaluation is what we like!
I own one of these and I still enjoyed the review. Expensive yes, over complex granted. A little perspective though... This is still a great motorcycle to ride. More torque than the previous model, more power and better fuel economy. Same GS handling and all day comfort. I did a trip from UK to Dolomites in Italy last summer two up with full luggage. This bike will sit at slightly illegal speeds all day long, fully loaded and still return good fuel economy. It will also pull out of an uphill hairpin in second gear again two up and fully loaded without without breaking sweat. Yes the cam profile is only optimum in two places but in reality all you feel is bags of torque and power everywhere from a super smooth engine. Love Fortnine reviews and factually this one is spot on but go ride one before you dismiss it.
It's amazing how all the BMW GS bashers wade in like demented lemmings. I'm amazed that electronic ignition was ever adopted back in the 70s - it might fail!!
@@nikoscosmos I have a 1982 Honda 250 with cdi and a 1984 Honda 125 on points. Points are a real pain. I love not having a choke with Fi I have 3 bikes 2 of them have carbs the feel is better with a carb.
I test rode one last summer and the vibrations in the foot pegs and handle bars were uncomfortable after a few minutes. Not sure if that was just an issue with the demo bike.
@@sv650nyc7 We talking about the same bike here? I rode a F800GSA before my current R1250GSA, I can tell ya... that thing shakes. I could only see vague shapes in my mirrors when revs went up. My R1250GSA is so smooth and comfy, I wouldn't trade it again with that old F800GSA.
Some video from aforementioned Dolomites trip: ruclips.net/video/OnxQwi_5SmQ/видео.html
The heisenberg uncertainty got me XD
Yup !
Ryan,
The oil cap tool is part of the screw driver handle located under the seat. Been that way for years.
David,
The oil cap tool is the grabbable vertical blade located on the oil cap. Been that way on other bikes for years.
@@hakrsakr ???
I wish there would be more knowledgable and honest reviews like this out there. Thanks
BMW 1250GS: the weird science teacher who uses quadratic equations as his passwords
KTM 1290SA: the PE teacher drinking Mountain Dew at 4 am
Honda Africa Twin: the shop teacher who lets you sneak a beer
Triumph Tiger: the choir director
V strom 1000: the out of fashion teacher with an elbow patched coat that reaaaaally knows his trade
@Sir Tristan It probably does, when it's not being fixed, which if you own one as you say, either you got lucky or you know what I'm talking about
@@silv3rArrow everyone gangsta until the Ducati sees gravel
KTM 990R: Randy Savage or Pat McNamara on cocaine ;
KLR 650: your grandma
I’m still waiting for the first FreeValve bike.
Was just about to comment the same
You guys should check put that awesome new technology called two-stroke ;) Jk I know you're referring to fourstrokes
Me too. We will ever see it on production? I'm gettin old...
Let's just see if they can cram it into a car, first. ~RF9
@Johnny Blue Air compressor?
I think you hit the nail on the head about the reliability concern. I have an F800ST, and while everyone praises the durability of the F800 engine itself, there are so many electronics that can and do go bad on them. I've been dealing with a glitch for about 2 months now and solving it has been a huge pain.
Suzuki is the polar opposite. Yes, electrical parts can go bad on any bike, but the only part that went "bad" on a GSX650F (that was incidentally 2 years older than the F800ST) was the neutral/gear indicator, wherein it'd show the wrong gear at low speeds. I feel like Suzuki's tech is dated, but at least it's well-tested. So as someone whose only vehicle is a motorcycle, I'd rather have that any day.
If BMW's engines and mechanicals are as strong as a certain mythical Greek warrior, then their electricals, peripherals, and stupid specialized tools are like his heel.
I recently read a consumer reports that said BMW fails 50% of the time, Ducati 33% of the time, and Polaris (Victory and Indian) only 17% of the time. With Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, and Kawasaki all being less than 15% of the time having critical parts failing, so they are the top 4 most reliable motorcycles, with BMW having a reported 50% failure rate of their motorcycles. It didn't say when that was measured or how they attained those statistics, but with their cars, it certainly sounds right. German and American cars are the most unreliable cars ever made, although German cars are a lot cooler than any other car. I would trust a new BMW motorcycle, because I think all the new bikes, except the Pan America and new Harley liquid cooled motors, are pretty reliable as of 2023. Electronics are much more reliable now than in 2006.
This channel is GREAT! Best quality in any motorcycle reviews I've seen! Keep it up!
This type of motorcycle content is what we all need. Nobody would think to take off the valve cover on a bike just to prove a point.
Frank Williams
But do we need this type of content?
Is now Ryan’s honesty in doubt ? Let me explain..
I’m an owner of aT7 and a 1250GS. I’m not precious about either of them!
My GS already had front brakes and battery replaced under warranty, as well as a stuck exhaust valve and an additional couple of visits to the dealer with software gremlins. So all in all rather disappointing not to mention overpriced piece of kit, but one that is still great at what it does, when it does.
However, instead of picking up the real problems he went down the path of theoretical and ‘possible’ problems as well as misleading ones ( the screwdriver under the seat IS the tool for the oil plug, the hill hold can be used in manual mode or disabled so no issue there and as for the display when standing up, is it a cheap joke of his? You can rotate it to suit or remove it altogether. Personally I don’t need to look at it when standing)
Come on man, we love his reviews, attitude and witty comments. He should not be trying to spoil it with shallow reviews that give fuel for the haters to feed on, all for the shake of clicks. He has a responsibility to be more thorough and accurate!!
Respect
MD
OS P few problems with GS. Any with T7 so far?
Richard Hretczak Well, due to lockdown only have 420 miles on the clock. Great bike but no GS. Already rusted spokes on back wheel. Front wheel ones are fine. 🤔
OS P I couldn’t agree more. He really disappointed me with this video. I had such a high opinion of him before this. He’s usually so unbiased and objective. He berates Moto journalists for their unwillingness to say anything bad out of fear of not getting invite at next bike launch but he is twisting the truth from a place of being mad at Bmw. Unsure of what the slight was but regardless the end result is the same. A narrative that is not the whole truth! He’s being a tad bit hypocritical. This was just clickbait in my opinion. Nothing more.
True reviews as always!!
Not any rubbish from the manufacturer forwarded like other reviewers..
Always quality videos, consistently the best motorcycle content on you tube.
Over the years, I watched this honestly great review so many times, but since day one I have some problems with it.
1. The 1250 is just a facelift of the K50 generation, nothing groundbreaking new to be expected, but I take the extra 20Nm and 10hp without complaining.
2. Why invent the wheel new with Shift cam, if there is already the tech out there. While regular riding almost all the times the large cam is active. Reading the ECU, it switches already as low as 33% throttle at 1150rpm and this line moves linearly to 16% at 4900rpm. The two power humps are an emission thing, but can be smoothed out by adjusted fueling, but the 1200 had already the same issue as well.
3. The special oil filler cap tool is the screwdriver handle underneath the pillion seat, but that's written in the forbidden book.
4. Auto Hill Start Control can be disengaged by a firm grip on the brake lever. In the settings you can select between auto, manual and off.
Some truly annoying thing you have missed out is the windshield that can't be operated at higher speeds and flatters like a cow's tail.
With that, best of wishes from Bavaria.
SPOILER ALERT:
OH SH*T THE STROM!!
V-Strom is stronk!
That looked like shitstorm at first glance.
Oh Yeah! My pick in the category.
Where were you when I was studying mechanical engineering, you explained all the concepts more beautifully and in an easy manner than all the professors or textbooks in my university ever could, thanks for making reviews like these. 👍🏻
Awesome! Only discovered your channel last week but watching through as many videos as I can. This one in particular is showing the honesty behind all this. You’re right in every word you say (ah, and I’m German driving the AT).
And this is why I am sticking with my 2003 R1150GSA. Thank you for your honest review.
"Needless Complexity" is the hallmark of German engineering.
My code when given so much time that it becomes a library itself instead of just being a function.
classic!
Lost them the ww2
I love the 1200, the 1250 not so much for that complexity. It will probably take a few updates before that cam tech becomes more reliable.
mld it’s the same country that could n’t make enough kit to win either war.
Great video as ever Ryan, and I have to agree with you that the Suzuki VV solution is far more elegant in engineering terms (at least to me anyway). All that said, I still love my GS....sorry about that!
No reason at all to be sorry TMF :-)
You love when your neighbors look at the logo ;)
I have to disagree on the Suzuki solution simply because it only affects timing, not lift and duration.
@@paulv22 soon BMW will carry over their valvetronic system from their cars. More efficient & responsive
@@nazhif1 BMW has had Valvetronic for 20 years or so. It's a good system but if they were going to put it in bikes, they would have by now. It takes a lot of space so I doubt it would work well on a motorcycle, especially a flat twin.
It's been over a year since this video was produced and I hope by now he's figured out the Oil Cap wrench is the screwdriver handle. Needless bashing Ryan's part, but I love his videos, and I still see he rides a BMW. Still, I traded my K1600GTL for a new '21 R1250 GSA, even after watching this. Love it, and the versatility. Step up the pace Ryan. We want more.
Thank you ...voice of reason.
Ryan, thank you for your straightforward reporting.
Your honesty, is amazing almost as great as the quality of the program itself!
The VTEC part had me dying 🤣
Great video Ryan, lots of good points to think about there BMW. I test rode many big adventure/sports tourer's before deciding on a bike to take over from my old faithful Yamaha Fazer thou' after 21 years. Still ended up with a R1250GS slightly reluctantly, there is a reason they are so popular.
I think the tech was intended more for non GS platforms using the same motor, but it made sense for them to make it apply to all 1250cc bikes rather than keep the old 1200 design on just the GS. You’d be surprised how many GS owners don’t do that much off road and utilize the shift-cam tech.
Dude, off all the reviews on Yt. Yours are the absolute best! Keep up the good work!
That video made sense! I'm glad I can watch a video where the end point is: Please BMW, make your bikes simple.
There is nothing wrong with having a flagship bike on the lineup to attract customers to dealerships. But there is something very wrong to fill the bikes with over-integrated technology nobody else than the seller can maintain. Car manufacturers are following the same trend, pushing customers back to their dealer.
Bikes should have every reason to offer an alternative to that serfdom. Make bikes light so they are manageable, make them simple so they can easily be repaired.
Adrien Gahery klr 650.
The thing is, very few people actually work on their own bikes anymore. Sucks for those of us who want to but its probably not relevant anymore. Most riders I know cant do more than change oil and most dont even do that, they want the fancy tech.
Just a market correction. If you don't want an R1200GS? Don't buy one. KLR is the shizzle, and so many choices in the 250-450 cc range that it goes without sayin'. Light is Right!! VTeC, YO!!!
Agree. I think all well build products should be open source style. Give me the blueprints when I buy something please.
Looks like bmw has been hanging out with tesla and apple.
Save the planet, by reducing waste. Buy used!!!
@@supertrucker2077 Beat me to it 😂
The wrench for the filler cap is situated underneath the saddle 😉 Hill start control pro can be actived manually by pulling hard on the break, if not it doesn't engage 😁 Would love to see you review the new Multi and Tracer 👍 Keep up the excellent work.
The point he was making was that it doesn't have a standardised filler cap, like any other bike ever. So if you lose the tool, you're SOL. And.. his other point stands, if you want a 3p turn, you will break - thus engaging the noob hill assist.
@@edforshort Hill assist can also be completely turned off. The filler cap is designed to prevent tampering with the crankcase. Many people simply replace it with a toolless option.
@@SuperSnallygaster yes, only owners or reviewers who bother to read the manual, but want sensationalist content know this. There’s a reason the GS is by far and away the world’s number 1 selling bike, and it has nothing to do with marketing, unlike the Jap Cr@p.
@@edforshortHill assist does not engage with regular braking. You need to hold the front brake hard for ~ a second while fully stopped. I've never accidently engaged it.
i absolutely love this no BS approach to your reviews
also, Ryan Kluftinger!? i never knew 😭
Most honest review i ever saw of r1250gs...
FINALLY is all I have to say.
If someone was going to say it out loud, it was you.
Thanks.
I’m late to this party but Ryan (and crew) just thank you. I’m not interested in a GS 1250 or any GS for that matter, they really aren’t my thing at all, yet, I watched and enjoyed every second, this truly is great media, you deserve to be very proud.
Damn, good video man! Still have and love my 1150GS, thought about upgrading but both the aesthetics and the electronic nature of its newer iterations kept me from it. Keep up this amazing content!!!
One of the best reviews i've seen in a while. Great job!
3:10 had me laughing my lungs out 😁
You guys do seriously great reviews, it's amazing (and a bit sad) how refreshing an honest review is nowadays
knowledge, presentation style and honesty.....a rare combo for motor journos these days
Much respect of honesty in review.
I recently just quit my job at a motorcycle dealership, right when I started the 1250 GS came out and we were selling them, they're fun there a lot of awesome bikes to ride. But you're totally right about not being able to walk out the door for under 30k, I used to have customers spend upwards closer to 40, on new farkles for their bike. Some customers are even trading in their 2018 1200 gs for a new one, I will admit that I was little brainwashed by the company, something about being a 20-year old kid working around motorcycles tends to make you see things from a manufacturer's perspective. All that being said I agree with you 99% the only problem is the only reason this bike came out with the extra lawn mower inside of it compared to the previous generation is for BMW to make money off of the California Rich late 50s winery owners. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But I do know that BMW has a hard time getting young people on the train as well. I don't think BMW makes bikes for motorcyclists anymore, just a bunch of garage pieces for men that have the other 4 bikes to ride as well for all reasons you have above.
When I was looking for my 1st ADV bike, obviously, I looked at the GS 1200. I had a price point in mind, but the bike was 23K, about 5K more than what I wanted to spend, all because of the added electronic "packages". I told the salesman I didnt want or need all that, and he said "consider resale" (BMW doesn't even sale base model bikes). I walked out and bought a Triumph Tiger 1200 for 17K, that was actually equipped the same as the BMW.
You nailed it. Ran across a BMW gs rally taking a break in the Bay area hills. All were in their late fifties and up, no young people.
funny... i got the first 1250gs hp loaded for 22k and rolled out..... later spent 2500 on vario cases .... done.....
surfallday I’m 28 and ride my used 2018 gsa down every backroad in Mississippi. Buy my rotella engine oil at Home Depot and I shop at dollar general just like everyone else.
Again, always a good objective, scio-mechanical explanation of motor function and theorem around the reasoning behind the madness.
Just saved me $30,000ºº
Thanks for your honest review, noone on youtube is like you guys.
You had me at "Shin Shattering". Love your content, keep it up!
The epitomy of savage. Dude you made my day. I'm keeping my ETV 1000 Caponord Rally Raid for ETERNITY.
please don't stop uploading I never knew I could love another man in a non gay way until now
So how many men do you love in a gay way?
@@saddle8bag gottem
@@saddle8bag eeey
Every time you make a video, it hits the spot!
Ryan, the stopped clock analogy was precisely the one I saw when thinking of shift cam. You are a genius (like me!) and a credit to your craft -- one of the few reviewers who speak honestly of motorcycles. PS I own a 2015 R1200R - because it's a great road bike motor.....and always was.
The GS/GSA are touring bikes that appeal to the sense of "rugged outdoorism" that some of us really like... but almost NOBODY does any rugged outdoorism'ing on them. When I'm in Germany (couple times a year lucky me) I always try to get a weekend free to rent a GS and go somewhere fun, it's a lovely tarmac touring bike. Would I take it instead of my Multi on a sport touring romp... no... would I take it instead of a KTM 790ADV on an offroad romp... no. Would I ever buy one myself... well no. BUT, I do appreciate it for what it is, a great all-arounder.
It appeals for starbucks warriors mostly unfortunately, so thats why it has this soccer mom of motorcycle world opinion.
David Kuhn after reading your comments I even more appreciate my (1/4 of the GS price) great all-arounder Suzuki V -Strom 650
At long last an honest review! Thank you!
Thank you for your honest opinion, I would love to see an honest review from you on the new F850 GSA.
Ryan you're hilarious! Please don't stop. Excellent video for its informative content presented in a humorously serious way. 10/10 here in YUL
I like my 2006 gs without esa,it's rugged and fun,even a monkey cand adjust the valve clearence and ill make a lot of repairs with my spare 18.000 euros so no....i won't upgrade anytime soon
Thank you for articulating what I only had gut feelings about. I absolutely adored my 2011 R1200GSA oilhead, with its tractor manners and relative simplicity. So having sold it when I moved to Europe, I thought I’d get one of these new 1250s to replace it. But something about the price plus the mass of gadgetry put me off. Did I want more than the old 110 hp? Did I need a fancy multimodal display? And my service costs were already through the roof on the old Bimmer-what was the new pain going to be? So I hesitated, bought a used interim bike while I thought it over. With all the choices out there, I am afraid I’ll have to cut the BMW patches off my Rallye jacket. I still haven’t made up my mind, and the “interim” bike is a lot of fun, so again, thanks for saying what I imagine a lot of us were thinking. I feel liberated.
Awesome review, definitely food for thought. By chance could you do a tiger 1200?
Superbly presented and produced and easy to understand. Top YT guy in my opinion.
Dissing a GS?! "How Dare You". LOL!
If you've never heard of it, might I suggest checking out the 'Deltic' engine used on UK locomotives in the 60's. 18 cylinders, 36 opposed pistons, three crankshafts, two-stroke (no valves) diesel ! Beautiful engineering. (PS: Deltic after 'Delta'; triangular, not from diesel/electric as some think )
I love the way the rear wheel bounces off the ground over ever bump. I followed my mate on his new GS on my Aprilia Tuono, he was struggling on the bends, bouncing all over the place and I was just riding normally like I was running my bike in !
Fantastic channel, fantastic review!!!! Can't say more, by far the best moto channel in RUclips!
"What if the valve solenoid fails?"
Well assuming the computer doesn't immediately bork and put you in limp mode, you'll just be left with whichever cam lobe you were on when it stopped working.
Although this could be different between the left side and the right side!
Hmmm... Lumpy!
It seems that in the "off" position neither shifter pin is engaged. If the solenoid failed like that, the cam would be free to float from side to side (eek!). Though I'm not 100% sure about this, so if anyone has better experience - help me out! ~RF9
@@FortNine this is horrific. A complete fail in mechanical design. I guess it'll never go bad, but just knowing how this engine runs makes me never even want to consider it now. Thank you!
@@FortNine now that doesn't sound optimal!
I find it hard to believe it would be left floating. I would expect them to think "fail safe", although that might be safe as in safe for the engine... Not safe as in you can get yourself out of the middle of the Australian Outback before the sun comes up and cooks you to a crisp!
I think I'll go back to wrenching on my old GS in the garage... Suzuki GS250 that is ;-)
- This isn't a lock-down, it's enforced "FINISH THAT DAMN PROJECT BIKE!" time :-D
Hi FortNine, I looked at this when it just came out. If I checked all the part drawings correctly, there is a little grove and ball setup that locks it into place. If you look at the valve video you will see that the activator only makes it shift and then retracts. This in normal operation. But I do agree it’s a old way to do it, Ducati way seems better in my opinion.
@@juststeve5542 Failsave devices are almost always first to go. What happens if one cylinder get stuck at one position, and the other cylinder on the other? What will repeated inbalanced ignition will do to the engine?
All very true and well put. Still love the 1250 GS, it's just so nice to be on.
Where was this channel hidden?! SUBSCRIBED !
Ouch, that one hurt...
Finally someone setting things straight: the R1250GS is not worth what it costs...
Broke As FK hahaha reliability sucks.........have you ever owned one????
As if we didn't already know.
@@johnandrell8517 BMW sucks as hard in building reliable bikes as they suck at building reliable cars. Deal with it.
@@arcuz7862 Dude ... I owend 2 GS and one BMW Car so far... They never let me down... Maintancen is expensive... But you get german qualitiy for that...
@@papst7377 Good for you, fanboy.
My Yamaha R15 also has variable valve accusation.
It has 2 intake valve. It changes the valve when the bike reaches 7000rpm. To allow more air into the engine.
The market has moved forward, and BMW has not. That solenoid won't wear out on weekend runs to the coffee shop anyway. : )
Unless it does.
I'm not a fan of the GS, but if the solenoid fails, you can still ride it to wherever you want. The power just won't be the same..
@@GL0BETREKKER my guess is that the ECU will throw a "check engine" error code and shut off the whole system.
I've seen several '90s CB500s and a couple of early / mid 2000s Fireblades w/ over 100k. Others I've seen in the high tens of thousands i.e. above 65k are VFR750 and a couple of ZX9R C2s.
By far the best unbiased review for motorcycles.
👍👍👍
That’s a good review!! Truth everywhere. And talked about so many details. Compared to more “established” reviewers. They should take a few pointers.