How much torque can the stock B58 Transmission handle?
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- Опубликовано: 28 окт 2021
- How much Power Can a Stock B58 Engine Handle: • How much power can the...
Discuss how much torque the stock B58 transmission can handle, and recommend upgrades to hold big power.
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Авто/Мото
How much Power Can a Stock B58 Engine Handle: ruclips.net/video/b9DJEtAiDK0/видео.html
Me :watching these videos like I got money to update my car 🤡
Me: watching and I don’t even have one 😅🥲🤡
😂😂😂 you guys are killing me
@@Copedawg_340 me watching shopping for one
@@arhumtanveer6580 same, well eventually lol.
@@kern417 this is my favorite B58 channel by far
I'm one of those 12 manual owners so I really appreciate this!! Great job man! So basically keep it under 700ft lbs to save the transmission and upgrade the clutch to the one in 550i, got it.
"alright guys we’re back staring at my engine bay" love to hear it lol
Woaw I was looking for this information just yesterday and you come up with this video !
I am also one of those 12 manual car owners too and my clutch just started slipping on stage 2+ E30, planning on going with the 550i clutch, your vids are a huge help, thanks sir.
Great info as usual.!!!👍
Great vid kev!! For those reading My company is Importing and stocking HP70 Swap kits here in the US and designing the needed mount for xdrive! Further i also have Pure Drive Train offered on the site aswell!
I do r even have a b58 powers for or even a bmw, but your information is detailed and amazing, thank you so much.
Those beat box sounds at the end are my new ringtone!
Awesome content. just picked up my 2020 m240i last week and im about to get my downpipe.
You won't regret it
Good information
Prefect timing I just destroyed my clutch and looking for options 🤣
How?
Another quality video. I lived that false knock nightmare in my n54 lol. Not fun!
Thank you
Another great video.. Good to know my BM3 stage 1 93 won't do any damage. By the way what's the quickest way to do a 0 to 60 pull, WITHOUT using launch control? Obviously putting the car in sports mode and then either setting it to to S and let it auto shift or setting it to gear 2 manually and shifting.
Dsc off, brake boost, shift around 6500rpm. A lot of people have good luck leaving in second gear but some people still take off in first and have better results so you'll need to try for yourself.
Thanks!
Keep it up brother! Love the content
I really appreciate the support seriously 🙏🏾
I ran e30 on stock clutch for a long time
Absolutely loving your videos man! Are there any details known about xdrive 340i’s with the 6spd? This is my car, and I’m curious if the transfer case is a limiting factor at all. I’ve recently noticed some slipping high in the rev range on a MHD stage 2 with catless DP.
I only know of a few people that damaged it from power and they were all big turbo autos. It's very strong. You probably just need a clutch.
@@kern417 Thanks for the info man! You're killin it out here 💪💪
How many miles are you at. I’m at 60k stage 2 MHD and still no slip. I might go back to stage 1 for now
@@alialmusawy800 Just around 100k on the stock clutch. I've been pushing it on Stage 2, and at this point slipping quite a bit. Looking to swap for the 550i clutch or Spec Stage 3+ pretty soon.
Can you look into applied torque solutions please
Can you make a video about stock driveshaft
Just got XHP an hour or so ago and it feels really good. Nice smooth quick shifts. Makes the car feels more linear
Who makes XHP?
@@videogazer801 The guy who named it XHP.
@@slayerkann XHP is Xi Ching Peng,
@@videogazer801rbtuning
Ik this is old but could u do vids on what supporting mods/ other (non engine) upgrades you need to do when really trying to put power in a b58 car
Hey there! First i want to say that i really like this channel because i’m a proud B58 owner with the ZF8h50 trans (i have a 2017 440i gran coupe with MPPK) i would like to ask you if the readings we get from the sport gauges in the car showing the HP and NM are accurate? Greetings from Spain 🇪🇸 👍
They're not 100% accurate but an ok relative ballpark
@@kern417 I have a 2018 440i catless downpipe and flashed stage 2 93oct MHD. My sport gauges are reading like 360hp when I go full boost. Should I be looking at higher numbers on those sport displays
@@keioffice3402 you shouldn't be worried about what they read.
@@keioffice3402 i believe you should be looking a higher number because my car is stock, it only comes with the MPPK, and I’m seeing close to 400hp... i’m pretty sure is not 100% accurate but with a minor margin of error!
@@kern417 I know that every car is a different story but with those mods I have what should I be looking in terms of hp/tq
Thank you for this vid! Quick question, I took delivery yesterday for my 2017 M240i xdrive and will be getting my transmission serviced shortly. It runs smoothly but I noticed in Sport+ that the downshifts and if I recall, the upshifts were abrupt at high RPMs...is that what you mean by "slip"?
No. Slip would be you floor it and revs go up but you dont accelerate. Almost as if the trans shifted into neutral on its own
Hey Kern! What’s your opinion on just upgraded the “clutch packs” inside the 8hp50? I have seen some companies like jacks transmission offering kits like this that price wise works out better. Thanks!
it helps hold more power but there are a lot of other components to beef up for hard racing/launching.
I am planning to tune my car F36-440i gen 1 rwd- to stage 2 Cat-less down pipe and custom tune. Figure they said is 420hp and 600nm.
Car is stock now, but 600 nm is concerning to me without a transmission tune.
Should I be worried ?
Pretty sure the manual is bulletproof. It’s more or less the same manual used in every performance bmw. GS6-53BZ. Found in everything from N54s to the S63 in the F10 M5. Even the G8X M3 and M4 uses a variant of this manual transmission.
Also I lost my 4th gear synchro due to the pressure plate bolts in my DKM twin disk clutch backing out and not disengaging when depressing the clutch.
It's actually the Gs6-45bz trans Which has glass synchrose between 1st and 2nd
I watched video and all comments..so oem should hold 690 ftlb / 800 nm without need an upgrade trans from the Pure? I have TU pump,200 cell cat 470 hp / 720 nm crank now. I think upgraded turbo would take to ~550-600 hp crank and 690 ftlb / 800 nm? Or is the installed TU pump enough?
Nice video man. I have 330e g20 im planing to go stage1 motor and gear next week is zf8hp51 good enough yo handle 480 lbft torque without slip?
Yes
Who else here 3rd pedal gang? Represent!
2017 m240i w/6-speed woo-hoo
2016 340i 6 Speed! I'm in love
I don’t feel like doing a custom tune. I’m stuck between the MHD “Moon map” or the BM3 stage 2 plus E30 tune. Thoughts or recommendations?
They both perform similarly. I ran the bm3 one extensively without issue
Im ga8hp75z swapping my 335d and planning to make 600 ft lbs to the wheels, do you think this trans can hold up as it comes, with a trans cooler?
My real quwstion is can this trans hold this power level for a long time with flooring it and very rare launches on the street? I figure it can Id be surprised if it couldnt handle being floored like any car Ive been in but you bring up good points and it is all aluminum after-all
it probably can. trans cooler isn't as much of a difference as the internals. if it's an hp75 then it should be pretty strong. people are doing 600 on HP50s.
Also I hear everyone talking about xhp tune......I actually passed on it being I’m only stage 1 BM3 and to be honest I think the bm tune caused this ( lagging )
No it's normal
And how is it with the 8HP51 transmission in A90 supra? Can it handle more torque? By the way great video!
Unfortunately it's the same so not any stronger
I have asked NRP performance and the say that 51 is weaker than 50...😢
if im gonna tune my car stage1 E30 bm3 does i need to do anyyhing in the transmission ??
Can u upgrade the automatic trans?
How many hp can hold factory trans?
I have a 2017 435d. Looking to upgrade. I’m getting quoted 800Nm on the tune. Will the gearbox deal with this guys?
Probably
I'm about to drop off my xdrive for a pure stage 1 rebuild and definitely plan on launching from a dig with about 850hp and 750tq. Are you saying you think stage 1 is insufficient for this and a stage 2 is better?
Correct. Talk to miller before they start working.
Thanks, decided to go with stage 2.
I am planning to do stage 2 to my 540i, doing fuel pump, downpipe, exhaust and tune. Should I change my trans as well?
No just flash xhp
@@kern417 thanks!
I've got a 2023 Supra manual transmission. Do you know if this upgraded bmw clutch you talked about fit it?
Not sure but hoping to find out soon
Looking to purchase a g30 540. 3 and 4’s are too small. Are these trans details and upgrades you post the same for the b58 540i x drives?
Transmission tuning is the same. For a trans rebuild from Pure, it'll be the same.
As far as the HP70, I haven't seen it done but I suppose it would be the same. Just pick one from a 540d or maybe even a M550d? Hmm 🤔
@@kern417that's 8hp75
The 6th Gear makes problems because of the bybass Clutch its the weakest part and in the 6th and 3th gear its closed and when its slipping this clutch is slipping
How strong is everything after the transmission IE axles, hubs, drive shafts... I have a M240i xdrive btw and coming from a 2004 srt4 that stuff broke before the transmission.
will discuss in a future video but generally speaking they all hold the power fine. launching on prep with a tire is when it gets risky.
From what I've seen, there's been shyt tons of driveshaft snapping, even broken axle.
Hey does the xhp flash damages transmission as it allows more torque etc?
The flash alone doesn't damage the trans. It just allows you to push the transmission to it's limits without the stock transmission tune from intervening.
Probably really expensive, but maybe an m3 comp rwd trans would work, and would likely be faster than the zf8hp50
Time will tell
the 8hp76 will bolt up directly but the stock tcu wont be able to talk to it. entirely diff mechatronics software etc. they wont be any faster, theyre the exact same gear spread, the 76 cog drive is bigger becuase it holds more clutches so the trans is slightly bigger. alto and reybestos make aftermarket clutches for like 500 dollars and it will hold 1000ft lbs all day long
What about drag mode. Do you think it ok to use once and awhile?
I think it is very risky. I discussed it in my last B58 Digest video
Will the boost by gear (% reduction) used on a stage 2+ OTS map on 93 octane in bootmod3 work in preventing the excess wear on the clutch with torque higher than 500 ft lbs? Assuming I'm getting 600 lb ft of torque will 20% reduction be enough just to play it safe? I plan on upgrading clutch later down the line.
yes it can help. primarily in higher gears where there's more load.
bumping this... currently breaking in my new 550i clutch, and thinking of doing the same. Any further experiences / data /recommendations from over the past year or so?
Does anyone know if the m140i and 440i share exactly same manual transmission
Yep, it’s the same one as they’re both F series cars hooked up to the B58. Same for the ZF units. I’ve got an M140i manual too and those turbo options plus hpfp keep entering my mind. Don’t know if you’ve tuned yours yet but, I’ve got an early 2017 UK M140i running bootmod3 stage 2 tune (OTS map) with a VRSF sports cat (listed for a 240i/340i on VRSF) and damn does it pull even with just that. B58TU hpfp will also fit our cars with no wiring mods other than spinning the housing on it 👌🏻
Just need to granny shift 1to 2 if you want the Synchrose to hold together And real kicking ass is if they go go there's no replacement parts you need to ither put a Sketchy used one or spend 3300 plus $1300 core charge on new Remember factored one. It's so crazy that's the only two options you have. Or should I say I have lol
🥲
And when i logged my data i maxed out at 394WHP, 465Lbs-Tq, and 19psi. The car should be making well into the 400whp range. Not sure if i have a turbo leak or what but what could i do to access the issue ?
I have a video on how to read logs. Start there. Logging HP doesn't help.
@@kern417 okay cool ! I was trying to read them and understand them myself but there is ALOT of info. Wasn’t expecting the be the most accurate but ig rather some ballpark numbers i can work with
Have you seen any updated data on the stock trans or does the limit for 3rd and 6th still look ~ 650tq
The limit for 3rd and 6th is the limit I'm referring too. Other gears hold more but 6th will slip around 600-650
@@kern417 would love to see a review of the platforms “top performers” and their builds/ dragy times. Do a car and driver highlight of the month
I always meant to ask you......I, like some others deal with constant lagging where my 8 spd wants to constantly upshift into 8th gear. This is especially annoying around town and on county roads, and this is in comfort mode of course. My question....can a transmission related fault code cause this? Because he trans loves to get into 8th gear ASAP. I get up to like 45mph with light throttle and next thing I know I’m in 8th already.
Do you have xhp?
No xHP..... you see I ONLY wanted it for the purpose of custom adjusting my up and down shift points so that when trans ( in comfort mode ) did get into 8th gear rather than lugging at 1050 rpms it would stay around 1200rpms. That would of involved extending up shifts in lower gears and shortening downshifts in upper gears. But then I thought about when I was on highway doing 75 then my rpms would be higher. That’s something I didn’t want. I like how low rpms are when your cruising at very high speeds. And also with bm3 stage 1 would it really beneficial for increased torque limits ? I’m probably not exceeding them anyhow with stage 1? the whole quicker shifting thing xHP gives you...for me sport and sport+ shift quick enough . And bottom line I suppose is if I want to correct the lugging I can putt it into sport mode around town as a free solution!
@@scottjohnson8316 Yea sport means you wont shift until 2k at the earliest which means youl stay at 1500 or above usually. I just wished the throttle would stay linear and it wouldnt be 100% power at like 50% throttle so annoying
i want one just to daily drive but as far as my info goes i can give it a stage 1 and xhp gearbox flash without having to adjust anything? (xDrive M140i)
Yes
@@kern417 nice i want to keep my car mostly stock except for a small tune and small outside cosmetics.
Interesting to know that the b58 manuals can use n54 clutches 🤔
The clutch is the same, but the flywheel is different.
Hey @kern417 do you think I’ll be fine on my stock clutch at stage 2 93 oct. 6 speed Manual transmission car. My BM3 software license is supposed to arrive tomorrow evening. I plan on flashing stage 2 93 oct. I have the supporting mods: VRSF catless downpipe, VRSF charge pipe, DINAN Turbo inlet, MST cold air intake, new OE champion plugs and OEM bosh coil packs which will be installed before I flash. So just FBO.
It's hit or miss. It could last for a while but you should plan on a clutch eventually.
@@kern417 I do, I’m gonna give it a few months see how the car performs then throw the upgrade 335is/550i clutch in.
@@kern417 the car has 14k miles on it btw
So for a remap to 400hp and 580nm for 340i xdrive manual i don t have to change nothing, am i right?
Yes stage 1 93oct tune makes around that much
@@kern417 ty.
Was running Stage 2+ 93 OTS BM3 bootmod3 tune along with xHP Stage 3 transmission tune and blew up my transmission. Clutch pack C left the chat. I had to get a whole new transmission swapped in along with the transmission cooler and lines. I also am running the TU pump. Needless to say I'm sticking to bootmod3 Stage 1 93 OTS and xHP Stage 2 transmission tune for the time being. Does anyone recommend any good settings for AWD 340i xHP tune? Particularly torque limits per gear?
I’m surprised you didn’t upgrade to a Pure Transmission, those are rebuilt stock transmission for big power.
question, so if you do push higher torque and it starts slipping the tranny, can you adjust the tune to drop the torque and therefore stop the slipping? or once it slips, there is no adjusting a tune to fix the slipping besides upgrading the transmission as a whole
Yes, if it's slipping due to too much torque then you can back it off
Do i need xhp if i just use mhd to remove torque limiter? 2019 M440i stage 2 + , 94 octane...
it provides a whole new package of benefits above and beyond just removing the torque limiters. faster shifts, better configuration for different drive modes, etc.
R.I.P savings…. AGAIN! 😅
Is it safe to launch the ZF in Stage 1 and 2 consistently?
Sure
Are you saying level 10 just has a problem with BMW cars or all cars?
They have a bad track record period. Several people from other platforms also got scammed
@@kern417 I wish I had more info. As a kid growing up all the fastest JZA80's all had Level 10 Trans. So fast forward I'm looking to get one in my car. Can you clarify "Scammed" please?
What about the DMFW ? Mine have 45 k and my Clutch start to sleep with 2+ ots e40 ( not in stage 2 e30 )
Did you watch the video?
@@kern417 yes but that i want to know is the lifetime of the DMFW
The same as the clutch
Any updates to this transmission video?
Still the same recommendations
I’m looking at getting a 2022 m240i w/xdrive and I see with a jb4 alone it goes up to 450hp and 658nm tq on a dyno. This doesn’t seem safe?
Should be fine
@@kern417 the G42 comes with a zf8hp50? There any chance it comes with a more durable version? I can’t believe that they would release a car pushing towards the threshold of their own rating for the transmission?
@@panthersfan3168 watch the video
@@kern417 I did, that’s why I am asking for some clarification. You seem very knowledgeable and I appreciate you taking the time to respond.
@@panthersfan3168 the trans is underrated. It can handle much more.
Hey my clutch started slipping at stage 2 93, is this normal? It’s a 2017 340i with MPPSK, 30k miles
it can happen depending on how you drive
I have the same car, did you end up changing the clutch? If so what did you put
@@alialmusawy800 I did the 550i/335is clutch from FCPeuro, it’s been great. Just watch out for those axles, just snapped one doing a pull from 20mph
@@acebrometheus6 yeah I never do first gear pulls haha. Thanks
So will I be safe with 600whp and 600 toque?
sure
the b58 was offered in 3 transmission the 8hp45 the 8hp51 and the slow manual. clutch pack upgrade = $500 and doubles the power rating. i have a built 8hp51 in the supra and a built 8hp75 in the drag car and both hold about the same 1200whp.
where u get the clutch pack
Do you recommend xhp?
Yes
Manual Trans gang
my X4 M40i have the GA8HP50X , but stock I have already 500Nm ... mhhh .
underated for sure because already the limit .
the X4M (real M) have GA8HP76X ... do you think they are the same ?
They are not the same
@@kern417 feeling the 50X have in real up to 700+ then the 76X starts at 700 up to 900+ .. it's not possible the values are the max
What do you mean by lose some of the drivability when you upgrade to the 550i clutch?
when did i say that
@@kern417 5:24 , maybe you were referring to an aftermarket clutch kit though. I was just curious
@@kristophergant4140 yes. 2:33
@@kern417 thanks, I just wanted to make sure I was understanding you correctly. I appreciate the insight, incredibly helpful
Can you elavoborate for me in regards to the transmission?
So with my big single 335, i have a duel clutch single mass.. so i figured since it's relatively new still, i would swap it over to my m240 when i buy.. so its a direct fit??
Also, u mentioned ppl losing gears.. is that because of the duel clutch system itself? Or is that because ppl go over the 700hp mark like you explained?
And engagement, is it just slipping engagement? Cuz when i was breaking the clutch in, sometimes, it would slip a little or i would just straight up stall it.. weird clutch lol but now, its fine and i prefer to never break in a twin disk clutch again.
Lastly, ofcourse im going rwd, i was wondering in regards to launching.. my e90, awd, launches flawlessly with the clutch and nothing drivetrain wise breaks.. will is the manual transmission weak to launches?
Good to know you can swap a scat pack transmission in a 440i lmao, could probably get away with the hellcats 8hp90 too
I'm one of the 12 dam right
🤝🏾
I am one of the 12 😅 #savethemanuals
What about going for a zf8 of a diesel bmw
Seriously?
Did you see the M240iX from Steven wedge performance?
Did you watch the video? 8:23
@@kern417 sorry bro...
It's ok
I AM ONE OF THE 12 OK ? stop judging. XD on that note have a great day everyone. 😃
B58 is an engine, not a transmission fyi
He is referring to the transmission in BMW cars with the B58 motor, in particular the 240, 340, 440 and 540.
But you got the point right? Alright…
Thank you