Shameless Toxic Family
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
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Yes, it is so frustrating to feel responsible for carrying shameless people's shame for them. Like WE have to be the ones trying to avoid creating situations where they are more likely to act shameless, and worry about talking to people they offended afterwards, and all of it.
Yep that was my mom. The final 30 or so years of her life I finally just started calling her out in public. At first my family members attacked me and sided with her “right to express her opinions,” but I just kept at it. I didn’t yell. I didn’t curse I calmly said things like “That was rude.” “Why you got to be so mean?” and apologised to her victim for her. The final 10 years my other family members would sit silently while I did it. My mom actually toned down her vicious mouth when I was around. Did she change? No. Did I feel vindicated and empowered? Yes.
These people never truly change.
Know your worth and save yourself.
I like and appreciate that. "Know your worth and save yourself. "
Wow I love how you stood up for justice and kept at it. Ur such an inspiration!
I'm proud of you ❤ you're so brave
@@jessIe76468 thank you. Not brave. Just taking a little of my power back.
@zanpsimer7685 Love your description 😊 In my eyes you're brave. Wish one day I'll be like you and not self doubting my way. Going towards that. Hugs, take care ♡
@@jessIe76468 thanks. You’ll get there if you do the work. I was fortunate to have a great therapist to help along the way. I wish you peace.
My mom pulled my cousin’s wedding dress over her head at her reception and felt zero shame. My sister tried to pull her away and get her to stop and they made my sister feel like she was being a party pooper. I’m glad I didn’t go and I’m now no contact with my family.
Attention 🤦♀️
What makes it worse is when other people come to me and ask ME why that person does the things he says and does as if I have/ever had any control over this parent's behavior.
My mom, yesterday at my grandmother's internment, loudly for everyone, to hear, "I'm going to force it. It's what I do." Right before approaching me and hugging me, *Knowing* that I want no contact. And at the end of it, yelling at me as I walked away, "AREN'T YOU GOING TO SAY GOODBYE TO YOUR MOTHER!?" And when I kept walking without acknowledging her, louder, "COURTNEY!! AREN'T YOU GOING TO HUG ME?"
So I turned around, and as quietly as I could said, "You do not need to start shit and cause a scene. Stop it." She replied with, "But I want to hug you!" And I very calmly said, "And I would rather not."
Then she pulls a 'You ought to be ashamed' face and says, "Oh... that's so sad." So I said, " Yes, it is. Think about that." And walked away.
Smirking and laughing about deliberately violating my boundaries and publicly trying to humiliate me or make me feel ashamed for removing myself from a toxic, abusive situation only solidified my decision. And she's now fully blocked on all fronts. I had kept her unblocked in the hopes that we might one day reconcile, but I'm finally certain that's impossible.
Wow, sorry to hear what happened to you. After being no-contact with my own narc mother for 8 years now, the scene you described is exactly why I have determined not to attend 90 yr old narc mother's funeral whenever it occurs. I would only expect to receive scorn & derision from both of my "golden child brothers " and their wives. The die was cast long ago. When you're "assigned" a position in a family system, there's absolutely no changing it. I finally acknowledged that to myself and moved on and far away. Wishing you Peace and all the best.
@user-bg1eo7lo9u Thank you. And to you.
It's awful how some people think that they're allowed to mistreat others with no regard for that person's autonomy and emotions. They think they should be able to do whatever they want to whoever they want, and everyone should just let them and approve or say nothing. And we're supposed to just endure their wrath, their spitefullness, their cruelty, and complete disregard for our persons.
In this case, she already had two brothers and one of her sisters go no contact, as well as her former best friend of 20+ years. Now she goes around announcing to anyone who will listen that she is the "black sheep" and "the only one who lives in reality". The level of delusion and refusal to hold herself accountable for her own stuff is atrocious.
the sole role of kids for those parents is to be their stresd punching ball
I've heard it called the conservation of shame- when someone who should feel ashamed of their behavior does not feel it, someone around them will feel it for them. The shame is displaced rather than dispersed.
Who are you to judge what others are "supposed to feel" though?
What other's feel is 100% none of your business.
The person may not feel that they did anything wrong/“bad” in the first place, and if so maybe they already processed and came to terms with it on their own already.
@@BAsed_AFro which is part of the problem!!
@@BAsed_AFro so you’re saying there’s no such thing as shameful behaviour? What if you were hosting a fancy party and someone got on the table and curled a turd out into the punch bowl? You’re really going to say you see no need for that person to feel ashamed? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@ShintogaDeathAngel I did not say that "there is no such thing as shameful behavior", however that's indeed speculative.
What I'm saying is that it's nobody's role or job to decide who is supposed to feel "shame" (about whatever), let alone for how long.
One thing I don't often hear acknowledged, but I think was something many of us experienced, is how as young people we actually got in trouble for being "tattletales". We were damned either way.
Freaking THIS right here. Kudos for saying it.
Fr, I tried to get help from a school counselor before about my mom's abusive behavior (I didn't know it was abuse then, I thought it was just normal), and after they talked to my mom, she came home threatening me to keep my mouth shut. She blamed me for "not protecting the family". I'll never forget how she forced my head to face her as she looked down on me and said those things.
Two faced family life is just a creator of cognitive dissonance that forces the child to doubt instinct as well as intuition
They tell you lying is bad while it's all they do all the time to keep up their facade and appearances.
🎯🎯🎯❤️🩹❤️🩹❤️🩹
Yes, excellent point ! [also] Sadly, whether it be [ie] families, neighbors, friends, workplaces - unfortunately people like this usually ''continue'' to get away with bad or abusive behavior b/c others will [per se] justify it OR rationalize it away by saying ~ ''oh, that's just how they are'' or ''they've always been like that'' ! : ( Um, No !
Being shameless is a kind of superpower
Some of these toxic parents or siblings are very astute at hiding their toxic behavior in the presence of outsiders. It is truly disgusting.
The shame and anxiety a people pleasing perfectionist carries in public with their family as they fear something is going to happen.
I didn't invite my mom to my wedding as she was still married to my stepfather who was a pedophile. 37 years later, no regrets.
Thanks. Super useful. Everyone else dances around my toxic parent, bends over for them, etc. I just can't.
My mom said she never worried shr was a good mom because she knew she was a great mom.......
I asked if she was guilty after something bad and she said no, why should she feel shame or guilt anyways.
I struggle with this, because thinking this makes me then feel like I’m being patronising and arrogant. Even though I know it’s true.
Thank you! ❤
That last scentence struck a chord for real.
Thank you, I needed to hear this today❤
Thanks
Thank you for this soothing video.
powerful
Yes
painful facts!
I’m trying to find the toxic parent questionnaire but can’t find it anywhere or in any of the links to related VDO’s - has it been deleted?
Ah yes, one of the big downsides of emphaty. Sometimes you literally feel it more than the person itself 😅.
Ah shameless like the show.
Untouchable is a great word. Because they are not ashamed of themselves we carry their shame is a perfect way to explain how we unknowingly take the burdens of others.
In my experience, the toxic person/parent isn't so blatantly obvious. They are more of the manipulative, "who me", "I'm just being funny", etc type. It's this insidiousness that feels like the toxicity is done in the shadows which makes it mess with your own mental well-being.
Yup! They like to play dumb/innocent while they act shameless while they embarrass themselves and you.
You never met my dad. He would throw beer bottles at his office wall in front of people. He went through a phase where he went out to a bar every night and frequently set himself on fire with high-proof rum. No, really.
Some people really are shameless.
@@yourworstfan Both are shameless in that they dont want to see how their actions affect those around them. The manipulative kind is just harder to see as somebody who is toxic and it adds another layer of trauma/gaslighting.
A parent who feels like they're untouchable. Yes! That is the perfect word for it. Not only perfect but also untouchable.
"I never did anything wrong, what's the matter with you?, I don't feel bad about the mean things I said and did to you, it's your problem you're upset by what I did, get over it."
My life in a nutshell. Get over it, get over it, get over it, get over it, get over it.
Ugh. Thank you, Patrick. Internet fist bumps to everyone.
My sister and i always felt like we were babysitting our dad, and it was exhausting. We didn't know why we felt that way until we were adults..
Here’s just 1 example of that shame: My Mother was such a busybody. She never stayed home to clean house, lazy too. I still feel that shame of coming from a dirty house; I’m OCD.
Thanks for all you do ❤️
My toxic sibling is actually proud that he has no empathy.
damn u just called out my parents in 42092817374659 languages
Excellent point! Why do I feel shame for having a toxic parent? Why do I feel shame that I chose to go no contact? Or why do I feel shame for their inexcusable behaviors? My parent was untouchable … I’ve used these past 4+ years to find out who I am… and get in touch with my feelings… and I’m so much happier… Life is good and I have cultivated meaningful friendships with some folks for over 25 years….
For me it's not the parents but older brother
If you are not doing anything wrong such as molesting children, ripping people off, being a liar/nasty gossiper, etc then you have nothing at all to be ashamed of... regardless of what anyone else thinks or tries to project onto you.
There were double standards. My brother could do no wrong and I got shamed if I stood up for myself. This didn’t stop when we were adults. My brother showed up to my yacht wedding in a Johnny Depp pirate outfit. If I ever was perceived to step out of line at anything related to him, I was shunned for years. But everyone just laughed and smiled and applauded him totally disrespecting my one big day. I don’t know why I thought my family could contain themselves on that one day. But they could not. In retrospect I really should have known better. Now I’m the bad guy for cutting him off (not because of the wedding behavior, but because of the way he and his wife behaved while our mother passed.) I don’t care anymore. I don’t care about his ever so important feelings and how much more important he and his feelings are than me and my feelings and my life. I no longer have concern for this. They’re operating under the assumption that they can still just inform me of how much he’s suffering with my horrible behavior of asking for basic human decency. But I’m not. I’m not asking anymore. I’m simply not having anything to do with them. Boo hoo. Cry me a River. So sad.
So true. Thank you, Patrick.
❤
My super weird wedding story: my mother invited guests without telling me. I paid for my own wedding at a small venue. 30 closest family & friends. Maybe 60 people showed up. She had sent separate invites. 😮 smh
Yes! The word is shameless!!!
They have no shame!!!
I have noticed this about our son-in- law. He lies, steals and slanders and will defend all of it in anger as though he’s right!
When we gently called him out on it by telling our daughter he became furious!!
He is absolutely raging now that we dared to call him out!!
I don’t think anyone has ever done this to him !!
You're right. Typically the most toxic people are rarely called out on their behavior because you know what happens when you give them the slightest criticism -- they explode so violently that you don't dare to mention their pigheadedness ever again because their reactions are so out of proportion. And that's how they get away with it because no one is brave enough to hold them to account because they don't want to get screamed at.
It's so crazymaking. A major mind-eff.
@@spacegirl226 Nothing at all wrong with having no shame, and everything wrong with living a shame-based life!
Having no shame has become synonymous with fearlessness, a way of signaling that you are true to your desires and don't care about what others think of you or your actions. How is that at all a "bad" thing?
@@BAsed_AFro Having no shame is psychopathy. Doesn't matter what you do even if it hurts others, even if innocent people are damaged by your callous and hurtful decision. That's not at all what I would call fearlessness.
There's a fine line there. Shame has always been used as a societal tool to keep people in line. In some ways a bit of shame is like having a conscience or a moral code. If I do this, who does it affect? If I go out and get pregnant by 50 different men and have 50 kids, I can't take care of, am I supposed to feel good about that? I've hurt those children and myself because I wasn't responsible for myself, much less for them. Those kids have to suffer. BUT I FEEL NO SHAME. WHO CARES WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE CHILDREN? NO FEAR, BABY! I AM FEARLESS!
Get it? No shame is bad. A little shame can be a moral guide.
@@spacegirl226 Psychopathy = absence of all feelings, not necessarily shame alone.
Can come up with all kinds of silly hypothetically scenarios all day long, but it's still absolutely nobody else's business (or role) to try to dictate how much "shame" we're supposed to feel and for how long either.
What people think and feel is absolutely nobody else's business, and has zero bearing on if they are a "good" or "bad" person in any way, shape or form.
What can I do when someone supportive shames me (slightly) about cutting off my toxic family members?
My husband knows I am in therapy and knows about a recent abusive incident from my mom and sister that prompted me to finally start thinking about cutting ties, but he doesn't understand why I just went no contact and ghosted both my parents, particularly my dad. He is particularly shaming about my enabling and abusive father who is aging and dealing with chronic health problems. He seemed mild mannered to my husband, but despite telling him how he was the one who physically beat me when I was a child, he seems to be taking my father's side sometimes. Poor him!? What about me?!
I remind my husband that I'm now saving myself by going no contact but because his upbringing didn't emotionally scar him the way mine did, he can't see what I am only now in my 50's seeing finally for the first time. I'm tired of defending myself, but it keeps coming up.
I needed to see this today~ but for me it’s a shameless adult son 😢
Thank You, Patrick 😰
Someone has to take accountability/blame. And sadly, it's us.
I just don’t deal with them 💯💯💯
Thank you, I'll visit this again.
My father is this way, after all the pain he’s caused me, he still thinks he’s untouchable and can push me around, humiliate me and make sarcastic comments in public.
So are you saying we should realize that we no longer need to carry the shame for them?
I once went to church with my shameless mom (a rare occurrence even though she was catholic) and I was in awe of how there seemed to be someone she did answer to. I couldn’t figure out why I felt surprised by what I saw but it was that I saw her as untouchable because she acted that way.
I was so ashamed of my family but now realize it’s just a projection of theirs
Thank you Patrick!
It's nobody's role to try to dictate down how others are "supposed to feel". That's malignant NPD stuff, at best.
Also, some folks have ADD, ADHD, and other "spectrum" issues where they simply don't have the emotional capacity (or need) to try to carry such feelings in the first place.
Living/operating from a place of "shame" is coward stuff though and fear-driven behavior.
You sure that's how you really want to be perceived in life?
It's always great when you come to a place to try to heal from childhood abuse some anonymous person creates new trauma with their uniformed, judgemental, and condescending words.
@@stormthrush37 Hey, I'm from severe child abuse myself... w 7 ACE's at that.
But let's cut the bullshit with suggesting/thinking that we are supposed to live in "shame". Speaking your true mind, being your own person unapologetically is 100% okay and perfectly healthy.
@@stormthrush37 Also, you really need to find ways to acquire much more inner strength if you're truly going to allow for a YT comment to "create new trauma" for you.
Toughen up already.
There's a difference between toxic shame and prosocial shame. If you do certain things, you *should* be ashamed.
@@BAsed_AFro And no, speaking your true mind and living your true self is not 100% healthy if your true self is someone who abuses people. You are missing the entire point.