1 small propane cylinder will release over 1 gallon of moisture into the your garage, hence the rusting of ones tools. I installed a diesel Chinese heater. It helps, increase the temp to take the chill off.
I live in a garage but below the snow line and only gets to freezing two or three times a year. Trying not to have a negative impact on utility bills. Kinda crazy but I do laundry so I can run the gas dryer at 4 am. Sleeping with a standard heating pad under the blanket is more than I need. Beats being houseless outdoors. It is a nice garage three blocks from a country club...Keep smiling ☺
When I built my garage 21 years ago, I installed a natural gas fired overhead furnace and couldn't be happier. Simple, clean and takes no floor space. 28 x 36 insulated garage costs pretty much the same to heat as my 1500 square foot house.
I would need to run over 150' of gas line to get to the garage. (one day, maybe) My garage is too small 22 x 23, If I was to build one it would be a minimum of 25 x 25, 28 x 36 must be nice.
@@jimzeleny7213his gas company doesn’t allow anyone but them to run the gas line, which is crazy. Expensive, I would have converted the furnace to propane, they usually come with the orifices to do that. Unless the installer took them.
Good for you for calling out that Hvac company. Hopefully they’ll think twice next time. Hvac companies are notorious for new installs when not needed.
The Hvac company was not happy to see me. I still have the old furnace. I just picked up some free b vent pipe (complete chimney) so I may change it to propane and install it. For myself, I always do the break-even calculations when getting a hot water tanks, furnace, or A/C units. The last think, I needed to replace was my hot water tank, the break-even point was 3.6 years and the tank had a 6 year warranty (so I purchased instead of renting). That was 7.5 years ago, the money saved on rent now can purchase another new unit. Thanks for watching.
It's amazing that something the size of a loaf of bread can heat that much space with no problems with fumes, noise, condensation, high electricity/fuel costs, or worries from open flames. Sometimes the remote will even reach from the house, and it only runs on diesel, and 12 V with low amperage. All this for less than about $150 US. It seems that if you can get into the secret menu on the controller, with the code, you can adjust the air-fuel ratio In order to run waste motor oil (WMO), or a mixture of WMO and diesel. There are RUclips videos about this. BTW you can get a dual hose portable heat pump, similar to yours, that has air intake from outdoors. There are also window mounted heat pumps available, at least online.
I do like the single hose heat pump, but not for AC or heat but it is a good air exchanger. I would suggest nobody buy a single hose unit for heat or AC. I will install a mini split one day.
I've had the Chinese diesel heater for a few years now. $150,no problems. And no open flame in the shed. Which is the most common misconception people make. One thing I added was a 4ft section of baseboard (copper w/aluminum slats) to the exhaust. As a lot of heat is lost out of the pipe, I just reclaimed it. Following instructions the exhaust should have a downward slope. Mine came with the digital controller and remote. Nice to start it up about a half hour before going out. The other great part to it is it can run if the power goes out, with a car battery hooked up for its power supply. I charge the battery with a maintainer, although I will eventually put in a small solar panel to maintain the battery. Can't say enough how great they are. Plenty of dry heat.
To be honest these diesel heaters do not run well on waste motor oil. I have seen several that become coked up with ash and carbon deposits which destroys the vaporizing mesh in the combustion chamber. Even a purpose designed waste oil heater such as those made by Kroll need decarbonizing every few days due to the ash and carbon build up in the burner tray.
the bottom line is a cheap system costs more to run and a decent system will cost more to install. BTW, adding a garage duct to a home warm air furnace is against code in the USA. I suspect it's the same in Canada. A hot water radiator works well, but you have to guard against freezing. Another side note is all heating is about how many BTUs you need. The typical 2 car garage will need around 30,000 BTUs to maintain temp, but that amount may be too slow to warm the place up quickly. (some are in a rush) Electric heaters are 100% efficient because all power turns to heat... even what the fan motor uses. Propane, NG, and oil have some inefficiencies, with the end result being around 80% of the fuel heat is delivered to the room. The rest goes up the chimney. When comparing the cost to heat a room you wind up doing conversions of the various fuel's BTU content, then crunching numbers based on run time and heat lost up the chimney. Also, non-vented heaters will always stink up the room. Your call there. Here's a few numbers to work with... 1 Kw of electric = 3,500 BTU. 1 gallon of diesel, heating oil, kerosene, waste oil = 140,000 BTUs. 1 gallon of propane or 1 therm of NG (100 cu ft) = 100,000 BTUs. Figure your base cost locally and you can start to see what comes out of your pocket. BTW, waste oil is cheap but needs to be filtered and preheated, which creates its own separate science project, plus takes up room in your already small garage.
@@FRUGALWITHJOHN ... I believe you said, "it wasn't allowed". but I was pointing out it was a building code issue in particular. That was mostly because so many ask why. Good to know we're on the same page.
Tried a lot of heaters over the years and settled on a propane commercial type heater with a fan and exhaust thru wall that hangs from the corner of the ceiling hooked to a thermostat. Instantly heats my 30x40 garage in minutes and temp never goes below 40. I'm not out there working but a couple hours a week so it uses a minimal amount of fuel and on the coldest days I can take my coat off in 10 minutes.
I bought a pellet burner for my woodshop in 2006. 28x30 shop size. No vehicles inside, no room for them to get in, table saw too big. Pellet burner is a sealed combustion and fan forced exhaust. It has a port on the back, 1” I believe, to run outside for air intake. It’s cost $100 a winter to heat part time up until I retired 3 years ago. Now it’s still less than $200 a winter. But I do live in Tennessee 😂. It’s been a very good source of heat and very economical. I do have to find a place for approximately 30, 40lb bags of pellets I buy in the off season as they are cheaper then. But I am managing.
I heat my whole house with a pellet stove fireplace insert. It provides better heat than my oil burner / hot water primary system. I built a shed in the back yard to hold about 3 tons of pellets and I burn about a ton and a half a year. The only problem is like everything else the price of pellets is getting expensive. When I got it about 12 years ago pellets were $120 a ton, last year they were $350.
Thanks for the rundown. This is a great summary of the advantages and disadvantages of all of the common heating methods that are out there. And what’s nice is that the viewer can make an informed decision (which may not be the same as what you chose) given that their situation may be different.
Have you looked in detail at the dual hose heat pump units? Those presumably don't pull your conditioned air and exhaust them outside. How well they work is the question though.
I use an infrared tube natural gas heater suspended from the ceiling. It works wonderfully, have had it for 26 years now. I live in Edmonton, so it is used 8 months of the year.
Do you have problems with condensation? I have a similar infrared natural gas heater and has significant issues with the amount of moisture they put off. I currently have and added a dehumidifier to the garage and that had helped tremendously.
I use that diesel mr heater mainly because I sometimes need to paint in the winter time, I purchased a man door from marketplace for 20$ I drilled 2 big holes 1 for inlet on for outlet, went to home improvement store and got some duct piping that runs to the mr heater, the heater sits outside while it's running pulling and air from the garage while pumping hot air in, I usually let it run enough to get the garage hot and everything in it at least to 75°f once the target Is hit I shut it off I do my paint work then kick it back on 30min after paint and fumes are evacuated just to keep the part at a decent cure tempature
Are you using an additive for the low sulfur diesel?Kerosene has gotten out of sight like $8.25 a gallon which is basically nothing but off-road diesel so are you adding a additive for the low sulfur diesel?
Kerosene is not the same as diesel. #2 Heating oil is the same as off-road diesel, but without the anti-gelling additives for cold storage and use. Both are dyed red so that you don’t try to use them on-road as they have not been taxed the same.
Ever consider a small pellet stove? I have one and love it. Its cheap to run and safe. It draws in air from outside. The install is simple and the intake and exhaust go through the wall. Mine has a remote control so I took a raspberry pi and an IR bulb and reversed engineered a remote so that I can turn the pellet stove on/off from inside my house. Its thermostatically controlled as well. 1000 for the stove. Its easily removable if I move. They can sit very close to a wall as well so the foot print is minimal.
After watching all the time and money you’ve invested, I think your best choice would have been a mini-split wall unit. They’re very efficient and the technology has improved over the years. Looks to me like you’re spinning your wheels with all these heaters.
I started heating the garage with the wood stove 31 years ago. 31 years ago the garage had no insulation, over time work was done, the garage is now fully insulated. It is only in the last few years that, heat pumps would work below 5C/41F. A mini-split is on the table for another way I will try to heat the garage. Thanks for watching.
@@FRUGALWITHJOHN Yup, my Mitsubishi super heat mini split I purchased in 2010 is advertised to produce heat down to zero degrees outside. It hasn't dropped to zero here in MD but I can say that at 20F outdoor, I still feel warm air coming from the indoor unit. It's more efficient than my 2017 Bosch home system. Also, I framed out my shop w/ 2X6 studs to get the extra insulation in the walls, along w/ 20" of blown-in above the ceiling. Those 2 things make a big difference. Insulation is the gift that keeps on giving. Cheers
Great video and great explanations. I've been an RV owner for many years and when you stay in an RV in warm and cold climates, you learn about moisture. Gas has creates moisture. Electric heat does not. Seems like this guy's garage is well insulated and sealed. I think if I were heating a garage, I would get a few simple electric coil heaters with low power fans. That wouldn't change the pressure in the garage and it would create dry heat. You might see a significant change in your electric bill but I'm sure you planned for that if you're spending a lot of time in the garage in the winter.
The best option is a natural gas or propane vented exhaust such as mr. heater big maxx. For my garages I use natural gas 75k btu in one and an 80k btu in the other garage. Work great. I turn them down to 35 deg. when im not working and around 50 deg. when im working. Can reach 90+ deg. on a - 20 deg. day. No fumes, no problems. Easy and thermostat controlled.
I installed a12,000 btu propane furnace from an Rv works incredibly well. Ive tried electric heaters and a Chinese diesel heater but found it wasn't enough and the ticking from the fuel pump drove me crazy. There was also the smell of diesel fuel. The Rv furnace uses outside air for combustion and has a direct outdoor exhaust. The furnace is an Atwood model 7912 and is the smallest furnace offered . I keep the propane tank outside and used a 2 stage low pressure regulator and a 10' hose. I also use a 20 amp 12v power transformer to power the unit.
I'm a little late to the party but I used torpedo heaters in my garage for many years and they definitely are noisy. When we moved in 2016 and I built my new garage I figured that I'd put a woodburner in but since I have a lot of flammables in the garage that was out of the question. Out of the blue my wife ordered me an electric 10,000 btu garage heater. It works great. It's quiet, and warms my 1,000 sq.ft. garage nicely. About 1 month into the second winter I'm in the garage and I smell something hot. Here the distribution block where the power comes into the heater was melting down. Apparently, I'm not the only one that this has happened to. I pondered my delema and I got on the internet and ordered an industrial 600 amp. distribution block. I no longer leave the breaker on or the heater when I'm not in the garage working but I've had no further problems. Sorry this was so long.
I've got that same infrared ceiling heater, it's only on when I'm in there, and turned to blast directly towards me. It's all they're good for, they are not an efficient space heater at all. The little light on them is meant more as a yes-no power indicator, if the light is on the element is on.
I just got an infrared wall panel heater. It looks like a dry-erase board, there's nothing to it, can mount to wall or ceiling and it warms objects in the room not the air, it feels like you are standing in the sun, no exposed element, no fan, no fumes, no moisture and not too bad on electricity, or hydro as you say in the Great White North. Mine is 400 watts, I've seen 600w and 1000w, I don't know if bigger or several smaller ones would be better. If you could have one on the ceiling and one on the wall that moved it would be great. Since you got the diesel heater I'd add the smallest panel heater, it'd work well while waiting on the diesel to warm the room up. The 400w I got was $200 and it's about 30" x 30", they even have ones with pictures on them, just looks like a picture on the wall
I have a couple of the smaller wooden cabinet infrared space heaters. Love infrared. The fireplace ones are nice, too. I saw a video on here where a large, older church was battling to keep it heated and finally had infrared panels installed as the solution. The thing is though people have got to match their space to their heating requirements. Some places may need one panel, others a dozen. I know the wooden infrared space heaters I have said on the box that it was good up to 300 sqft and it does a great job at 250 sqft, I can attest to. As long as I have electricity available, it's going to be infrared everytime.
Fantastic video. I went through all the steps you did and settled on a combo of IR heat lamps for the bench area and a small propane heater that is very directed to the area I am working in and warm clothes. Stay warm my friend. Fred from Northern New York state.
Kinda interesting that incandescent lamps were demonized, but with good insulation, they could be used as dual purpose lights & heat sources, with no waste except for the lifespan of the bulb.
I used to have access to a shop heated only by wood. The heater was a giant and heavy welded up contraption made from a used 60 gallon water heater. Of course the shop was made only of steel and concrete, there was nothing around the heater that could burn anyhow. None of it was UL approved. The wood supply was massive and available for free nearby. Running a tractor and a chain saw were the only expenses paid for getting fuel to heat the shop. It could get so hot in there that we'd open doors to cool down sometimes.
I used to get my wood from a hardwood floor manufacturer (free) end cuts or pieces with bad knots. I did this for a few years until they moved locations. The wood came out the side of the building on a conveyor (always a lot of people taking turns grabbing it).
Unvented Propane and Butane gas heaters are a nightmare for producing high humidity inside a room. I remember back in the 1970s there was a trend for using portable gas fires that had the propane or butane gas bottle stored inside the metal casing of the heater and a 3 section radiant ceramic heater panel on the front face. Every room one of these unvented heaters was used in had streams of condensation running down the inside of the windows. I have used one of these 5KW Chinese diesel heaters to heat my workshop for about the last 4 years and found it to be very economical and totally reliable. I give it a full strip down and service once a year. I've never had any problems with rust forming on metal surfaces since I installed this little diesel heater.....they are cheap to buy and cheap to run. Another source of high humidity when space heating is some of the alcohol stoves. If the alcohol itself has a very low percentage of water then not much problems with condensation but standard methylated spirits and some ethanol fuels contain a lot of water and give of loads of condensate. I am amazed at how many people don't believe an unvented gas fire gives off loads of water condensate....they don't believe how a flame can give off loads of water.
When I built my shop/garage, 3 floors, I put in floor heat on the main and in the basement, best move ever. Doesn’t take up space and doesn’t blow dust around. My office on the 3rd floor has a hot water furnace so that it could be air conditioned. Am now going to to put in floor heat on that floor as well.
I have a 30x45 shed with 12 foot sidewalls. R12 in sidewalls and ceiling. Have a Mr.Buddy 80k propane heater hanging in one corner. It vents out the sidewall. Keep it at 42f and kick it up to 60 when I am out in the building . Heater was $1400 installed . I’ve in cold Illinois and have never used more than one 250 gallon tank of propane,
Here in Ohio it's against the law to use open flame heaters in garages due to gasoline fumes at floor level. That means no wood burners, infrared propane or natural gas, or salamander heaters. Gas fired heaters must be certified for garage service. They must have fan forced exhaust and be hung near ceiling level. That is what I use in my well insulated 36' x 48' shop building. In the near future, I will be adding a 4" outside air duct to pipe outside air directly under the unit air vents for combustion air. As it is right now, the unit does draw cold outside air into the cracks and door seals, but seems to easily overcome the difference in temperature.
I live in Ohio and every heated garage I can think of in the surrounding 5 counties has a wood burner in the corner. Alot of them are no more than a 55 gallon drum kit
Wow! I thought my state , Massachusetts was crazy with regulations. I used a small propane heater in my 10x20 ft shop for a few years then I started getting headaches so I switched to a small potbelly wood stove. Stays nice and warm. Great for burning wood scraps too.
My father built a 30x40 garage/wood shop in 1998 and put a ventless propane heater in it for the winter. The walls would sweat and his cast iron machine tops would rust. Also, not a great idea if you are going to finish anything in there. As for the cold air return. I had a house built in Grovetown Ga and the HVAC installers placed a 24"x24" cold air return in my two-car garage. I called the builder and told him that he better get out there. I showed him the issue and he told me that they would have to redesign the layout of the system. I told him you think. Air should not be coming into my living space that could contain emissions from a combustion engine. HVAC systems are a closed-loop system by design.
Generally most gas company branches will allow you to install your own underground gas line with the proviso that they connect it to the supply and leave the trench open for their inspection.
A mini-split heat pump is much better than the 1 you have. They don't create pressure problems. I have no idea if they're more cost effective to run than your diesel heater though, but they do also cool air in the summer.
You're 100% correct! A friend installed a mini-split in his detached garage last summer and it's been working phenomenally. 115 degrees in the summer and down to the 30's, sometimes 20's, in the winter. I learned a few things from this video, but in all honesty, he wasted more money (along with time and aggravation) on all of the different systems that he's tried over the years than if he just bit the bullet and spent the money on a nice mini-split.
And, you can't apply 20/20 hindsight to somehow rewrite history to a time lapse of a shared experience that is greatly appreciated by us viewers who can completely understand the troubleshooting steps taken over time that required the lapse of time to determine changes in approach to a comfortable solution. He did us a great favor to enlighten us with this journey some of us have to make positive progress towards life's comforts. His time spent was not implied time and life wasted, but rather actual living in real time.
A properly installed diesel heater has no pressure problems. The combustion air comes from outside, the exhaust goes outside, the dry heated air recrculates inside. A minisplit has to extract heat from the outside air and has an efficiency advantage in warmer temperatures as well as providing cooling in the summer. The other advantage a minisplit has is not having to drag fuel around. OTOH, if you live somewhere where the grid goes down now and then, a good battery and a diesel heater will keep you going for hours.
Thanks for the video. Unfortunately, none of those options will work for my attached garage here in California, but I at least know what I can't do! Lol! Great job stepping in for your older neighbor too.
Nice overview. Those little diesel oil heaters seem like the best option for space heat. I have a dream of building a camper van and they seem like the way to go. Run a diesel engine and heater. Around here, heating oil is even cheaper than off-road diesel so, though they are not supposed to, some loggers and farmers use it in their equipment. In a pinch, diesel is burned in furnaces. I chuckled at your 'what we call a torpedo heater. When I was young I lived in an uninsulated drafty beach house. In the winter I used to poke my head from under the covers and plug one in for a half hour before I got out of bed. Fumes be damned.
In an insulated garage, about 500 sq feet (about 0.465 sq decameters for you metric enthusiasts), containing mostly wood working equipment (read that as a lot of heavy cast iron), I found that heating the garage with a torpedo heater from a not heated condition did heat the air temperature very quickly. This was great for quick comfort, but it didn't play well with the contents of the garage. The machines, work benches, tools, tool chest, etc. all required time to come up to a temperature that matched the air temperature. As a result of warm air enveloping cold garage contents, I got condensation forming. Obviously, very bad for the metal items. I found a balance with giving the air temperature just a quick warm-up with the torpedo heater, about 10-15 minutes, and then using a convection type kerosene heater to finish bringing up the overall temperature of the garage. Once everything in the garage was of equal temperature, I was able to maintain the temperature at the low setting assuming the outside temperature wasn't ridiculously cold (less than 20 degrees F). Just as it took a while to heat the garage contents, it took a while for for the heat to dissipate from them. I found that if I shut the kerosene heater off for the night, with everything in the garage up to temperature, I only needed to restart the kerosene heater in the morning to bring the temperature back up in a short period of time because the temperature of the contents did not yet fully dissipate.
An Electric space heater is a option to knock off the chill and it 18:42 gives you a place to warm up safely and quickly . Place it in the area you are working.
I put radiant floor hot water heat in my garage 25 years ago. I keep it about 50 degrees in winter zoned off my house LP boiler with its own thermostat. Best thing ever. Floor drains and a big double utility sink have me spoiled.
While working EMS during the cold winter months, our company mechanics heated the garage, which was approx. 2,000 square feet, with a portable, wheel-mounted heater, which burned propane. I understand that there are also kerosene versions, but have never seen one. Thanks for the great video! Greetings from N. Kentucky, USA.
Great review, super informative. Those cheap diesel heaters are a game changer. I have 2x Whynter Arc-14s (14kBTU) dual-hose AC units for summer. They are highly effective - But, the intake air from outside is contaminated with pollen and dirt, which fouls the condensers. I have to clean them every season. So the dual hose units do have that drawback. It's not that bad, once you disassemble it you can spray some all-purpose cleaner on everything, wait a bit, then hose it down, and tons of dirt comes streaming out.
Have you used it for heating or only for air conditioning cooling purposes? I did find it draws much less power than an electric heater, below 1000W, compared to 1500 to 1700W, but start losing the advantage when the temperatures drop, and can no longer function to extract heat from the cold outdoor air.
I live in the mountains of North Carolina so my winters are mild 18° I use an oil heater bought it home depot a $110 I leave it on in my garage large to my garage never drops below 55°
Interesting video. Thanks for taking the time to do it. I have 2 of the electric heaters in my garage and they work okay. Good enough for when I'm in the garage.
The portable AC you have with one hose I also had and it made the room having - air pressure. I found another AC with 2 hose, one the brings air from the outside and the other exhaust. The change is good with no more outside air coming through doors and windows cracks.
Do you want your exhaust and intake to be that close together and at the same height? I know code requires exhaust vents to be a certain distance from any openings (doors, windows, vents).
Its Jan 2024, this video pulled up. Mini splits are pretty nice. They have ones with heat pumps that operate at 5F/-15C for $700, which beats watt for watt electric heaters. They can be 3-4x as efficient per watt depending on outside air temp. Installation is a breeze and the cables are pre charged.
I appteciate the time you took to explain your experience with these heaters. I have used an old oil furnace (84,000 btu) for years but I need to replace it. You gave me some ideas.
Modern heat pumps like ductless mini splits are the most efficient option. I would only suggest it for a well sealed and insulated garage. You would also need to run the heat pump all winter long. They are great at holding a temperature but not good for rapidly heating up a space.
@@FRUGALWITHJOHN The only two ductless brands that I trust are Mitsubishi and Daikin. The rest are usually junk! I work in HVAC and we only install Mitsubishi ductless units.
@@KPHVAC Agree. I installed a Mitsu Super Heat system in my workshop and I couldn't be happier. AC in the summer and heat in the winter. Takes zero floor space, no venting, no fumes. Inverter technology. What's not to like!
@@KPHVACI installed a Mitsubishi I unit last year in my garage, along with fully insulating the ceiling (walls were already done) and as much air sealing as I could. I have it set to 10°C in the winter 24/7 which is more than comfortable enough for me, and doesn't break the bank in terms of run cost. Yes, it was expensive, but I'd do it again.
I love my radiant floor heat.I use a Rheem instant 5k electric to heat a 40x16 very well insulated shop. The warm floor holds only 7 gallons of coolant, and no dry air is the only way to go. I live in North Dakota,some use propane, I have never used propane,hate the cons,especially death,lol
Great to see someone I can sympathize with. Awesome review thank you for the information. I have tried similar options but varied between electrical and propane options. So far the propane cabinet heater is most effective. Wife hates the BBQ type smell but it does the job.
Propane is fine, as long as the exhaust goes outside. All my spare steel I keep in the garage, has a lot of rust on it because of the propane heater I used. Thanks for watching.
I highly recommend a medium size infrared heater placed directly on the ground, not propped up. Heat rises so the lower the better and if the floor is warm, you are also warm. Mine heats up my two car garage to about 60 degrees Fahrenheit.
I've had multiple different style garages over the years and by far the best setup I ever had was. You took an old trailer furnace and either putt up on blocks or made duckworks. To throw the air out forward on the ground could be diesel gas. It did not matter hell. My last one was set up. Is an extra doorway outside the building and it just threw hot air inside. The rest of the unit was outside in the snow and would heat my garage well. Over a 100° and a 5 gallon tail of oil would last me a week. By far the best setup You could ever have. And you used to be able to get them for free
I have several classic Volkswagens and they aren’t the best at being airtight or at heating, some actually heat well but they take quite a while to get to a comfortable temperature, so I got a Chinese diesel heater and mounted it on a board that fits where the spare tire goes, I can swap it to whichever one I want to drive in just a few minutes and can let it heat the car up thoroughly before leaving for the drive. You definitely tried a lot of heat sources, but many were fire hazards, not just the wood stove. For my garage I have an old propane furnace mounted up on the ceiling, I use the small grill sized tanks, and I also have a heater called a Monitor that uses K1 kerosene, but I’ve used diesel and red fuel oil in it for many years with no issues at all.
If you're building your own garage, install pex tubing in your slab when you pour it and install an oil fired boiler. I used RV antifreeze instead of water in the system because I lived in Pennsylvania to prevent freezing in the winter months when I wasn't working in the garage.
Nice breakdown. I have a diesel heater keeping my place warm. Recently piped the exhaust thru an old cast iron steam radiator, close to 100% efficiency...
Thanks for the video! The diesel unit looks like the one I put on my sailboat 35ish years ago. Kept it toastie all winter for five years, great on fuel. Thinking of similar for the garage at new place.
I am going with a 7500watt 240 volt heater from Home Dept. Foil insulated the garage doors ( RUclips video is great ! ) R50 in the ceiling . NO open flame in the garage and workable temperatures . Can crack it up for painting. In floor heating would have been great ! Used a 5600 electric dryer on a makeshift extension cord for many years . I saw a set up that he built a wood heater room in a shed outside the garage (about 8 feet away ) and ducted in hot air through an insulated ducting underground to the garage . Very efficient and no open flame.
@@FRUGALWITHJOHN electricity is a bit cheaper in BC than in many places but not free. Depending on what the limitations are ( I live in a strata ) maybe a combination of some sort works. Insulation is pretty important and DIY. Infrared heating is pretty passive tools etc warm up to the touch.
Did you try a small mini-split? None of the problems you mentioned and a couple of advantages. It dehumidifies the shop while on 'cool' and it keeps the noise outside. All combustion releases moisture, some much more than others. Propane would be one of the worst. I had it in a house for both the furnace and the water heater. You could take a shower and the towels would still be wet the following day! Pulled it out and put an oil boiler in with great results, then during the 74 oil shortage (they learned then how a 'shortage' could boost prices) I put in a wood stove. That was, of course the ideal, when it comes to pulling moisture even out of a humid environment, but one hell of a lot of work and space is devoted to it. Propane and natural gas (for that matter any combustion source) can work if they have a closed combustion chamber using outside air and a tight exhaust stack but they will do nothing toward drying your air inside. Most do not use a closed chamber and therefore release moisture into the house. Ditto with water heaters that are propane or natural gas.
I heat mine with a propane heater. I've been doing it this way for the last 10 years without any issues. I do inspect my equipment on the regular though. When I finally get 220vac out here, I'll install a mini split.
Great for you for stepping in and helping your elderly neighbor out from getting ripped off. These people really should have been arrested and then criminally charged
Now that was a great video years of heating experience im sure this will help many people ! ive got a diesel heater to i love it n there so cheep to run !!
I've been using kerosene radiant heaters for 30 years. Since the price went up I've been using the stuff I got with the heaters. At only .08 gallons per hour I can go all winter on a few gallons
There's Moisture absorbing things that's work wonders on moisture in rooms. I'd have tried that and I always have a couple of silical gel packs in my tool boxes and anywhere moisture could cause damage.
The insurance thing with the wood stove i understand but are u playing it waterfalls or geysers of gas cuz gascus flammable obviously but its not like opening ur gas caps gonns cause an explision
Thank you for having all this experience doing the wrong thing and sharing it with us. They say making mistakes is the best way to learn. Bet that was expensive though. Been there plenty myself. That's a lot of good information here, mister.
Thanks for sharing. I ended up finding a cheap 240v (30A plug) electric heater (brand new in the box at a garage sale) which seems the most practical for the limited use it gets. The fan isn't too loud, it's switchable between 5,600W and like 3,600W I think, heats up my 3-car garage pretty quick. I can move it around my garage too so it's never in the way and can direct heat onto something if necessary.
That's it. I enjoyed this so much, I have subbed. I could listen to you for hours, John. Thank You for "stepping in" for your neighbor! I despise scammers. Hah! They got caught. I actually have a Vevor 8 furnace. I don't have a garage. 😞 I got it for my small apartment as I don't have a thermostat and I am at the mercy of another rooms temp.. Not freezing but it is nice to have control. It is still in the box. I may just save it for when I do have a garage. Also, just so everyone knows, when you use the Vevor, always have a 12V battery running it with a controlled charge running off the grid power. (As John did show that is his set up). If you run it just off a power supply plugged into the wall and there is a power failure, the furnace will not be able to go through its shutdown sequence. From what I have read, just dropping power to these furnaces, while running, is NOT good. Hope this helps!
I use a wood fired out door boiler and old cast iron radiators I got from a old factory being torn down my 25x60 shop stays 70--73 degrees Fahrenheit all winter no matter how cold gets outside
I have a wood shop where moisture can create a lot of damage on power tool surfaces. I installed a mini-split HVAC system and never looked back. Cools and heats quietly. Dehumidification is an added bonus that keeps the moisture down. That is where you should go. Considering all the $ you've dished out already you could have one and be done.
That video is my experience of heating my garage over a span of 31 years, when I started mini-splits were not a thing in North America. My next endeavor will be a mini-split, but I will also need another source of heat because Ontario Hydro charges 55 cents a kilowatt hour. I will also need a solar set up for the mini-split.
You could have converted the gas furnace to propane and got a 500 gallon tank. Also we have a ICF house with a foam roof deck. Basically air tight. Making a negative pressure in the house is a good thing.
Thanks for the video! The fact that you were trying to help people through your trial and error will definitely save me some money. I generally used kerosene instead of the furnace, but kerosene has gotten over 8 dollars a gallon!? I know that it’s just the same as off road diesel I ask another person in the comments about additives for low sulfur diesel are you using additive and if so what is it? Also I didn’t know that propane caused moisture really glad that you added that cause I have things that I definitely can’t let Rust!
I don't use additives in my diesel, I do mix in old two-stroke gas/ mixed gas (one liter mixed gas to 9 liters of diesel. I only do this to get rid of old gas. I don't recommend this but been doing it for years. I only mention this because in some of my videos you will see the diesel tank has a blue tint to it. (the blue is 2-stroke oil) Thanks for watching.
I didn't read the description so i was watching the vid kinda worrying you WERENT gonna end on a diesel heater. Silly me.. anyway those things are great! Almost like magic. Next trick for mine is pump the exhaust up through the heating tube/chamber of a gas water heater in a small semi-detached shed and try to get some free hot water from the exhaust heat that im just dumping right now.
I put a radiant natural gas in mine. I love it. In my humble opinion, anything that produces heat is going to have some form of combustion. Rather than fight that due to gasoline leak/ fumes maybe have an emergency exhaust system in place where you could flick a switch and pump the fumed air out quicker. Sucking the air away from the heat source. Opposite wall from heat source. Or a one button emergency setup that turns on exhaust fan and opens the garage door with one push.
My neighbor has the little diesel heater and it keeps his 2 car garage comfortable. I have a 200 sf motorcycle shop and have ordered a diesel heater for it.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Excellent! I had the same problem with moisture and rust using propane to heat my shop up in Alaska.
I will pin this comment. Most people including myself, don't or did not know about the moisture problem with that style heater.
1 small propane cylinder will release over 1 gallon of moisture into the your garage, hence the rusting of ones tools. I installed a diesel Chinese heater. It helps, increase the temp to take the chill off.
@@FRUGALWITHJOHN I just learned this here! Thanks Retriever and David!
And you too, John! It is, after all, your Channel! 🤣😂🙂
@@FRUGALWITHJOHN How much Fuel does the Diesel heater use? 1 gallon per hour???
ruclips.net/video/MtdhNVnrZUM/видео.html The answer in in this video
Hats off for helping out your neighbor!!
This is where my dad was smart he put in slab heating when he built his house it is nice to work in and perfectly safe
I live in a garage but below the snow line and only gets to freezing two or three times a year. Trying not to have a negative impact on utility bills. Kinda crazy but I do laundry so I can run the gas dryer at 4 am. Sleeping with a standard heating pad under the blanket is more than I need. Beats being houseless outdoors. It is a nice garage three blocks from a country club...Keep smiling ☺
When I built my garage 21 years ago, I installed a natural gas fired overhead furnace and couldn't be happier. Simple, clean and takes no floor space. 28 x 36 insulated garage costs pretty much the same to heat as my 1500 square foot house.
I would need to run over 150' of gas line to get to the garage. (one day, maybe) My garage is too small 22 x 23, If I was to build one it would be a minimum of 25 x 25, 28 x 36 must be nice.
From what I remember, the fittings at each end of the gas line cost more than the actual pipe. My run was about 100'.@@FRUGALWITHJOHN
@@jimzeleny7213his gas company doesn’t allow anyone but them to run the gas line, which is crazy. Expensive, I would have converted the furnace to propane, they usually come with the orifices to do that. Unless the installer took them.
@@earlestes8649I would circumvent them by having a small propane tank set outside the garage. That monopoly crap they're pulling is bogus!
@the_truck_farmer that was my thought. Drop a propane tank outside
Good for you for calling out that Hvac company. Hopefully they’ll think twice next time. Hvac companies are notorious for new installs when not needed.
The Hvac company was not happy to see me. I still have the old furnace. I just picked up some free b vent pipe (complete chimney) so I may change it to propane and install it. For myself, I always do the break-even calculations when getting a hot water tanks, furnace, or A/C units. The last think, I needed to replace was my hot water tank, the break-even point was 3.6 years and the tank had a 6 year warranty (so I purchased instead of renting). That was 7.5 years ago, the money saved on rent now can purchase another new unit. Thanks for watching.
It's amazing that something the size of a loaf of bread can heat that much space with no problems with fumes, noise, condensation, high electricity/fuel costs, or worries from open flames. Sometimes the remote will even reach from the house, and it only runs on diesel, and 12 V with low amperage. All this for less than about $150 US.
It seems that if you can get into the secret menu on the controller, with the code, you can adjust the air-fuel ratio In order to run waste motor oil (WMO), or a mixture of WMO and diesel. There are RUclips videos about this.
BTW you can get a dual hose portable heat pump, similar to yours, that has air intake from outdoors. There are also window mounted heat pumps available, at least online.
I do like the single hose heat pump, but not for AC or heat but it is a good air exchanger. I would suggest nobody buy a single hose unit for heat or AC. I will install a mini split one day.
I've had the Chinese diesel heater for a few years now. $150,no problems.
And no open flame in the shed. Which is the most common misconception people make.
One thing I added was a 4ft section of baseboard (copper w/aluminum slats) to the exhaust. As a lot of heat is lost out of the pipe, I just reclaimed it.
Following instructions the exhaust should have a downward slope. Mine came with the digital controller and remote. Nice to start it up about a half hour before going out.
The other great part to it is it can run if the power goes out, with a car battery hooked up for its power supply. I charge the battery with a maintainer, although I will eventually put in a small solar panel to maintain the battery.
Can't say enough how great they are. Plenty of dry heat.
To be honest these diesel heaters do not run well on waste motor oil. I have seen several that become coked up with ash and carbon deposits which destroys the vaporizing mesh in the combustion chamber. Even a purpose designed waste oil heater such as those made by Kroll need decarbonizing every few days due to the ash and carbon build up in the burner tray.
the bottom line is a cheap system costs more to run and a decent system will cost more to install. BTW, adding a garage duct to a home warm air furnace is against code in the USA. I suspect it's the same in Canada. A hot water radiator works well, but you have to guard against freezing. Another side note is all heating is about how many BTUs you need. The typical 2 car garage will need around 30,000 BTUs to maintain temp, but that amount may be too slow to warm the place up quickly. (some are in a rush) Electric heaters are 100% efficient because all power turns to heat... even what the fan motor uses. Propane, NG, and oil have some inefficiencies, with the end result being around 80% of the fuel heat is delivered to the room. The rest goes up the chimney. When comparing the cost to heat a room you wind up doing conversions of the various fuel's BTU content, then crunching numbers based on run time and heat lost up the chimney. Also, non-vented heaters will always stink up the room. Your call there. Here's a few numbers to work with... 1 Kw of electric = 3,500 BTU. 1 gallon of diesel, heating oil, kerosene, waste oil = 140,000 BTUs. 1 gallon of propane or 1 therm of NG (100 cu ft) = 100,000 BTUs. Figure your base cost locally and you can start to see what comes out of your pocket. BTW, waste oil is cheap but needs to be filtered and preheated, which creates its own separate science project, plus takes up room in your already small garage.
I did say in the video it was against code in Canada to run ductwork into the garage from the house. Thanks for watching.
@@FRUGALWITHJOHN ... I believe you said, "it wasn't allowed". but I was pointing out it was a building code issue in particular. That was mostly because so many ask why. Good to know we're on the same page.
You mean 1 kWh=3500 BTU.
@16:41 it was stated “For one, that’s against building code.” 🙄
If you throw a few copper pennies in each tool drawer they will never rust again. An old tool and die maker taught me that trick.
That's stupid, there's no way this works. Besides, where do you find a copper penny? Nowadays they're all 99% zinc.
@@salazamzinc or magnesium would work as well. If they are on the other metal they will act as sacrificial metals and the other metal will be good.
Pennies prior to 1982
@@TadpoleTrainerno they won’t.
Tried a lot of heaters over the years and settled on a propane commercial type heater with a fan and exhaust thru wall that hangs from the corner of the ceiling hooked to a thermostat. Instantly heats my 30x40 garage in minutes and temp never goes below 40. I'm not out there working but a couple hours a week so it uses a minimal amount of fuel and on the coldest days I can take my coat off in 10 minutes.
I will be testing a thermostat for my Chinese diesel heater that turns it, on and off soon. Thanks for watching.
@@FRUGALWITHJOHN I saw they make a receptacle that will turn on/off based on temp. Just plug it in and plug your heater into that.
I bought a pellet burner for my woodshop in 2006. 28x30 shop size. No vehicles inside, no room for them to get in, table saw too big. Pellet burner is a sealed combustion and fan forced exhaust. It has a port on the back, 1” I believe, to run outside for air intake. It’s cost $100 a winter to heat part time up until I retired 3 years ago. Now it’s still less than $200 a winter. But I do live in Tennessee 😂.
It’s been a very good source of heat and very economical. I do have to find a place for approximately 30, 40lb bags of pellets I buy in the off season as they are cheaper then. But I am managing.
I though of installing one and was looking for a used one a few years back. They can be pricey, and I can be frugal lol.
I heat my whole house with a pellet stove fireplace insert. It provides better heat than my oil burner / hot water primary system. I built a shed in the back yard to hold about 3 tons of pellets and I burn about a ton and a half a year. The only problem is like everything else the price of pellets is getting expensive. When I got it about 12 years ago pellets were $120 a ton, last year they were $350.
It is hard to heat anything nowadays cheap, with everything being so expensive. Good video.
Very true!
Thanks for the rundown. This is a great summary of the advantages and disadvantages of all of the common heating methods that are out there.
And what’s nice is that the viewer can make an informed decision (which may not be the same as what you chose) given that their situation may be different.
Thanks
Have you looked in detail at the dual hose heat pump units? Those presumably don't pull your conditioned air and exhaust them outside. How well they work is the question though.
I use an infrared tube natural gas heater suspended from the ceiling. It works wonderfully, have had it for 26 years now. I live in Edmonton, so it is used 8 months of the year.
Do you have problems with condensation? I have a similar infrared natural gas heater and has significant issues with the amount of moisture they put off. I currently have and added a dehumidifier to the garage and that had helped tremendously.
I use that diesel mr heater mainly because I sometimes need to paint in the winter time, I purchased a man door from marketplace for 20$ I drilled 2 big holes 1 for inlet on for outlet, went to home improvement store and got some duct piping that runs to the mr heater, the heater sits outside while it's running pulling and air from the garage while pumping hot air in, I usually let it run enough to get the garage hot and everything in it at least to 75°f once the target Is hit I shut it off I do my paint work then kick it back on 30min after paint and fumes are evacuated just to keep the part at a decent cure tempature
Are you using an additive for the low sulfur diesel?Kerosene has gotten out of sight like $8.25 a gallon which is basically nothing but off-road diesel so are you adding a additive for the low sulfur diesel?
Kerosene is not the same as diesel. #2 Heating oil is the same as off-road diesel, but without the anti-gelling additives for cold storage and use. Both are dyed red so that you don’t try to use them on-road as they have not been taxed the same.
Thank you for the update on Mr buddy heater. Too much water in your house is not good.
It is only good if you like mold lol, thanks for watching.
Ever consider a small pellet stove? I have one and love it. Its cheap to run and safe. It draws in air from outside. The install is simple and the intake and exhaust go through the wall. Mine has a remote control so I took a raspberry pi and an IR bulb and reversed engineered a remote so that I can turn the pellet stove on/off from inside my house. Its thermostatically controlled as well. 1000 for the stove. Its easily removable if I move. They can sit very close to a wall as well so the foot print is minimal.
Yes I have, every now and then I price them out, A lot more than $1000 in Canada for one. Thanks for watching.
After watching all the time and money you’ve invested, I think your best choice would have been a mini-split wall unit. They’re very efficient and the technology has improved over the years. Looks to me like you’re spinning your wheels with all these heaters.
I started heating the garage with the wood stove 31 years ago. 31 years ago the garage had no insulation, over time work was done, the garage is now fully insulated. It is only in the last few years that, heat pumps would work below 5C/41F. A mini-split is on the table for another way I will try to heat the garage. Thanks for watching.
@@FRUGALWITHJOHN Yup, my Mitsubishi super heat mini split I purchased in 2010 is advertised to produce heat down to zero degrees outside. It hasn't dropped to zero here in MD but I can say that at 20F outdoor, I still feel warm air coming from the indoor unit. It's more efficient than my 2017 Bosch home system. Also, I framed out my shop w/ 2X6 studs to get the extra insulation in the walls, along w/ 20" of blown-in above the ceiling. Those 2 things make a big difference. Insulation is the gift that keeps on giving. Cheers
That’s the way I’m going . Mini splits are amazing. Heat in the winter air in the summer
Also mini split heat pumps don't expel air so there's no negative pressure.
Good info John. Thank you for making this video.
That was good of you to help protect that older man from getting ripped off .
Great video and great explanations.
I've been an RV owner for many years and when you stay in an RV in warm and cold climates, you learn about moisture.
Gas has creates moisture.
Electric heat does not.
Seems like this guy's garage is well insulated and sealed.
I think if I were heating a garage, I would get a few simple electric coil heaters with low power fans. That wouldn't change the pressure in the garage and it would create dry heat.
You might see a significant change in your electric bill but I'm sure you planned for that if you're spending a lot of time in the garage in the winter.
Resistance heaters are costly to run unless you have a surplus of electricity from solar panels or something though.
Is that really true, their “inefficiency” is all turned into heat, which is the objective. The price of electricity vs local fuel is a calculation.
The best option is a natural gas or propane vented exhaust such as mr. heater big maxx. For my garages I use natural gas 75k btu in one and an 80k btu in the other garage. Work great. I turn them down to 35 deg. when im not working and around 50 deg. when im working. Can reach 90+ deg. on a - 20 deg. day. No fumes, no problems. Easy and thermostat controlled.
I installed a12,000 btu propane furnace from an Rv works incredibly well. Ive tried electric heaters and a Chinese diesel heater but found it wasn't enough and the ticking from the fuel pump drove me crazy. There was also the smell of diesel fuel. The Rv furnace uses outside air for combustion and has a direct outdoor exhaust. The furnace is an Atwood model 7912 and is the smallest furnace offered . I keep the propane tank outside and used a 2 stage low pressure regulator and a 10' hose. I also use a 20 amp 12v power transformer to power the unit.
Definitely a nice unit, I've used a set up like that in the past for ice fishing. The hardest part is finding one for a good price.
I just got mine yesterday. I’ll have to set it up maybe tomorrow
I'm a little late to the party but I used torpedo heaters in my garage for many years and they definitely are noisy. When we moved in 2016 and I built my new garage I figured that I'd put a woodburner in but since I have a lot of flammables in the garage that was out of the question. Out of the blue my wife ordered me an electric 10,000 btu garage heater. It works great. It's quiet, and warms my 1,000 sq.ft. garage nicely. About 1 month into the second winter I'm in the garage and I smell something hot. Here the distribution block where the power comes into the heater was melting down. Apparently, I'm not the only one that this has happened to. I pondered my delema and I got on the internet and ordered an industrial 600 amp. distribution block. I no longer leave the breaker on or the heater when I'm not in the garage working but I've had no further problems. Sorry this was so long.
Thank you for this excellent video. I learned a great deal. You saved me from making some bad mistakes. Carry On Sir!
Glad to help
I've got that same infrared ceiling heater, it's only on when I'm in there, and turned to blast directly towards me. It's all they're good for, they are not an efficient space heater at all. The little light on them is meant more as a yes-no power indicator, if the light is on the element is on.
I just got an infrared wall panel heater. It looks like a dry-erase board, there's nothing to it, can mount to wall or ceiling and it warms objects in the room not the air, it feels like you are standing in the sun, no exposed element, no fan, no fumes, no moisture and not too bad on electricity, or hydro as you say in the Great White North. Mine is 400 watts, I've seen 600w and 1000w, I don't know if bigger or several smaller ones would be better. If you could have one on the ceiling and one on the wall that moved it would be great.
Since you got the diesel heater I'd add the smallest panel heater, it'd work well while waiting on the diesel to warm the room up. The 400w I got was $200 and it's about 30" x 30", they even have ones with pictures on them, just looks like a picture on the wall
I have a couple of the smaller wooden cabinet infrared space heaters. Love infrared. The fireplace ones are nice, too.
I saw a video on here where a large, older church was battling to keep it heated and finally had infrared panels installed as the solution.
The thing is though people have got to match their space to their heating requirements. Some places may need one panel, others a dozen.
I know the wooden infrared space heaters I have said on the box that it was good up to 300 sqft and it does a great job at 250 sqft, I can attest to.
As long as I have electricity available, it's going to be infrared everytime.
I put a mini split in my shop, I love it
Using a clamp as an improvised paper towel holder….brilliant!
Nothing like being frugal, thank for watching.
Fantastic video. I went through all the steps you did and settled on a combo of IR heat lamps for the bench area and a small propane heater that is very directed to the area I am working in and warm clothes. Stay warm my friend. Fred from Northern New York state.
Kinda interesting that incandescent lamps were demonized, but with good insulation, they could be used as dual purpose lights & heat sources, with no waste except for the lifespan of the bulb.
I used to have access to a shop heated only by wood. The heater was a giant and heavy welded up contraption made from a used 60 gallon water heater. Of course the shop was made only of steel and concrete, there was nothing around the heater that could burn anyhow. None of it was UL approved. The wood supply was massive and available for free nearby. Running a tractor and a chain saw were the only expenses paid for getting fuel to heat the shop. It could get so hot in there that we'd open doors to cool down sometimes.
I used to get my wood from a hardwood floor manufacturer (free) end cuts or pieces with bad knots. I did this for a few years until they moved locations. The wood came out the side of the building on a conveyor (always a lot of people taking turns grabbing it).
Didn't know about propane having water in it so i learned something thanks.
Unvented Propane and Butane gas heaters are a nightmare for producing high humidity inside a room. I remember back in the 1970s there was a trend for using portable gas fires that had the propane or butane gas bottle stored inside the metal casing of the heater and a 3 section radiant ceramic heater panel on the front face. Every room one of these unvented heaters was used in had streams of condensation running down the inside of the windows.
I have used one of these 5KW Chinese diesel heaters to heat my workshop for about the last 4 years and found it to be very economical and totally reliable. I give it a full strip down and service once a year.
I've never had any problems with rust forming on metal surfaces since I installed this little diesel heater.....they are cheap to buy and cheap to run.
Another source of high humidity when space heating is some of the alcohol stoves. If the alcohol itself has a very low percentage of water then not much problems with condensation but standard methylated spirits and some ethanol fuels contain a lot of water and give of loads of condensate.
I am amazed at how many people don't believe an unvented gas fire gives off loads of water condensate....they don't believe how a flame can give off loads of water.
When I built my shop/garage, 3 floors, I put in floor heat on the main and in the basement, best move ever. Doesn’t take up space and doesn’t blow dust around. My office on the 3rd floor has a hot water furnace so that it could be air conditioned. Am now going to to put in floor heat on that floor as well.
If I was going to build, I would do the same. Thanks for watching.
I have a 30x45 shed with 12 foot sidewalls. R12 in sidewalls and ceiling. Have a Mr.Buddy 80k propane heater hanging in one corner. It vents out the sidewall. Keep it at 42f and kick it up to 60 when I am out in the building . Heater was $1400 installed . I’ve in cold Illinois and have never used more than one 250 gallon tank of propane,
12 ft ceiling height is perfect for a car lift, thanks for watching.
Here in Ohio it's against the law to use open flame heaters in garages due to gasoline fumes at floor level. That means no wood burners, infrared propane or natural gas, or salamander heaters. Gas fired heaters must be certified for garage service. They must have fan forced exhaust and be hung near ceiling level. That is what I use in my well insulated 36' x 48' shop building. In the near future, I will be adding a 4" outside air duct to pipe outside air directly under the unit air vents for combustion air. As it is right now, the unit does draw cold outside air into the cracks and door seals, but seems to easily overcome the difference in temperature.
Absolutely, we must protect the stupid people by making things illegal.
His set up has no way for flamables to enter the combustion chamber except from outside the garage.
I live in Ohio and every heated garage I can think of in the surrounding 5 counties has a wood burner in the corner.
Alot of them are no more than a 55 gallon drum kit
Wow! I thought my state , Massachusetts was crazy with regulations. I used a small propane heater in my 10x20 ft shop for a few years then I started getting headaches so I switched to a small potbelly wood stove. Stays nice and warm. Great for burning wood scraps too.
I use 2 Infared heaters in my garage both fixed to direct the heat towards my 2 primary work areas. Works well. No moisture.
My father built a 30x40 garage/wood shop in 1998 and put a ventless propane heater in it for the winter. The walls would sweat and his cast iron machine tops would rust. Also, not a great idea if you are going to finish anything in there. As for the cold air return. I had a house built in Grovetown Ga and the HVAC installers placed a 24"x24" cold air return in my two-car garage. I called the builder and told him that he better get out there. I showed him the issue and he told me that they would have to redesign the layout of the system. I told him you think. Air should not be coming into my living space that could contain emissions from a combustion engine. HVAC systems are a closed-loop system by design.
I was wondering about the moisture in my garage! Thanks for the tip on the propane
Happy to help!
Generally most gas company branches will allow you to install your own underground gas line with the proviso that they connect it to the supply and leave the trench open for their inspection.
A mini-split heat pump is much better than the 1 you have. They don't create pressure problems. I have no idea if they're more cost effective to run than your diesel heater though, but they do also cool air in the summer.
You're 100% correct! A friend installed a mini-split in his detached garage last summer and it's been working phenomenally. 115 degrees in the summer and down to the 30's, sometimes 20's, in the winter. I learned a few things from this video, but in all honesty, he wasted more money (along with time and aggravation) on all of the different systems that he's tried over the years than if he just bit the bullet and spent the money on a nice mini-split.
@@davidstjames_
Except that 31 years ago, a modern, efficient, mini-split wasn't available.
And, you can't apply 20/20 hindsight to somehow rewrite history to a time lapse of a shared experience that is greatly appreciated by us viewers who can completely understand the troubleshooting steps taken over time that required the lapse of time to determine changes in approach to a comfortable solution. He did us a great favor to enlighten us with this journey some of us have to make positive progress towards life's comforts. His time spent was not implied time and life wasted, but rather actual living in real time.
A properly installed diesel heater has no pressure problems. The combustion air comes from outside, the exhaust goes outside, the dry heated air recrculates inside. A minisplit has to extract heat from the outside air and has an efficiency advantage in warmer temperatures as well as providing cooling in the summer. The other advantage a minisplit has is not having to drag fuel around. OTOH, if you live somewhere where the grid goes down now and then, a good battery and a diesel heater will keep you going for hours.
Thanks for the video. Unfortunately, none of those options will work for my attached garage here in California, but I at least know what I can't do! Lol! Great job stepping in for your older neighbor too.
Thanks for sharing
Those little diesel heaters are a life saver.....5 stars..
Nice overview. Those little diesel oil heaters seem like the best option for space heat. I have a dream of building a camper van and they seem like the way to go. Run a diesel engine and heater. Around here, heating oil is even cheaper than off-road diesel so, though they are not supposed to, some loggers and farmers use it in their equipment. In a pinch, diesel is burned in furnaces. I chuckled at your 'what we call a torpedo heater. When I was young I lived in an uninsulated drafty beach house. In the winter I used to poke my head from under the covers and plug one in for a half hour before I got out of bed. Fumes be damned.
lol, thanks for watching.
Been using the chinese diesel heater for 3 years now to keep my Rv warm in the winter. Even-35 i keep toasty warm in here. great video btw 👍
My Chinese diesel heater lasted around 4.8 years then the brushes on the fan motor wore out. They do work well, thanks for watching.
@@FRUGALWITHJOHN Spare/replacement fan motors and all other replacement parts are not expensive and widely available from online sellers.
Thanks for the info. Glad to hear others are trying different things like I do. Seems you’ve found the best answer for your self! Stay warm.
In an insulated garage, about 500 sq feet (about 0.465 sq decameters for you metric enthusiasts), containing mostly wood working equipment (read that as a lot of heavy cast iron), I found that heating the garage with a torpedo heater from a not heated condition did heat the air temperature very quickly. This was great for quick comfort, but it didn't play well with the contents of the garage. The machines, work benches, tools, tool chest, etc. all required time to come up to a temperature that matched the air temperature. As a result of warm air enveloping cold garage contents, I got condensation forming. Obviously, very bad for the metal items. I found a balance with giving the air temperature just a quick warm-up with the torpedo heater, about 10-15 minutes, and then using a convection type kerosene heater to finish bringing up the overall temperature of the garage. Once everything in the garage was of equal temperature, I was able to maintain the temperature at the low setting assuming the outside temperature wasn't ridiculously cold (less than 20 degrees F). Just as it took a while to heat the garage contents, it took a while for for the heat to dissipate from them. I found that if I shut the kerosene heater off for the night, with everything in the garage up to temperature, I only needed to restart the kerosene heater in the morning to bring the temperature back up in a short period of time because the temperature of the contents did not yet fully dissipate.
You're a smart man well written I have a similar situation at my place.😊😊😊
An Electric space heater is a option to knock off the chill and it 18:42 gives you a place to warm up safely and quickly . Place it in the area you are working.
Thanks for the discussion. You brought up some good points and it was interesting to hear what worked well and what didn't and why.
I put radiant floor hot water heat in my garage 25 years ago. I keep it about 50 degrees in winter zoned off my house LP boiler with its own thermostat. Best thing ever. Floor drains and a big double utility sink have me spoiled.
While working EMS during the cold winter months, our company mechanics heated the garage, which was approx. 2,000 square feet, with a portable, wheel-mounted heater, which burned propane. I understand that there are also kerosene versions, but have never seen one. Thanks for the great video! Greetings from N. Kentucky, USA.
Great review, super informative. Those cheap diesel heaters are a game changer. I have 2x Whynter Arc-14s (14kBTU) dual-hose AC units for summer. They are highly effective - But, the intake air from outside is contaminated with pollen and dirt, which fouls the condensers. I have to clean them every season. So the dual hose units do have that drawback. It's not that bad, once you disassemble it you can spray some all-purpose cleaner on everything, wait a bit, then hose it down, and tons of dirt comes streaming out.
air filter ;)
Have you used it for heating or only for air conditioning cooling purposes? I did find it draws much less power than an electric heater, below 1000W, compared to 1500 to 1700W, but start losing the advantage when the temperatures drop, and can no longer function to extract heat from the cold outdoor air.
I live in the mountains of North Carolina so my winters are mild 18° I use an oil heater bought it home depot a $110 I leave it on in my garage large to my garage never drops below 55°
I used Kerosene for years in my Garage. Here in NC, USA. it went from 1.99 a gal to 7.99 gal.
Good thing there’s no inflation. Just think how bad it would be if we did have inflation.
Yes, I ditched Kerosene also. Too expensive.
Interesting video. Thanks for taking the time to do it. I have 2 of the electric heaters in my garage and they work okay. Good enough for when I'm in the garage.
The portable AC you have with one hose I also had and it made the room having - air pressure. I found another AC with 2 hose, one the brings air from the outside and the other exhaust. The change is good with no more outside air coming through doors and windows cracks.
Manufacturers should not sell the single hose AC's, completely inefficient.
Change the furnace to propane for gas instead of natural gas?
I took out the wood stove and installed a shop gas heater, works great. and 10k window air unit.
Do you want your exhaust and intake to be that close together and at the same height? I know code requires exhaust vents to be a certain distance from any openings (doors, windows, vents).
Code is 12" for your furnace's intake and exhaust, so I am good there but maybe a little close to the door.
I would move the woodstove outside, in an addit, or small shed, and duct the heat back and forth with two pipes!
Its Jan 2024, this video pulled up. Mini splits are pretty nice. They have ones with heat pumps that operate at 5F/-15C for $700, which beats watt for watt electric heaters. They can be 3-4x as efficient per watt depending on outside air temp. Installation is a breeze and the cables are pre charged.
They do work well, but hydro here is over $0.55 KW I never did the math but a $0.55 is on the low end.
I appteciate the time you took to explain your experience with these heaters. I have used an old oil furnace (84,000 btu) for years but I need to replace it. You gave me some ideas.
I have a brother-in-law that uses an old oil furnace in his garage, they work good.
Modern heat pumps like ductless mini splits are the most efficient option. I would only suggest it for a well sealed and insulated garage. You would also need to run the heat pump all winter long. They are great at holding a temperature but not good for rapidly heating up a space.
I will be installing a heat pump/mini split when I find a sponsor. lol, I do heat the garage all winter long.
@@FRUGALWITHJOHN The only two ductless brands that I trust are Mitsubishi and Daikin. The rest are usually junk! I work in HVAC and we only install Mitsubishi ductless units.
@@KPHVAC Agree. I installed a Mitsu Super Heat system in my workshop and I couldn't be happier. AC in the summer and heat in the winter. Takes zero floor space, no venting, no fumes. Inverter technology. What's not to like!
@@steadyeddie7453 the price . 😔
@@KPHVACI installed a Mitsubishi I unit last year in my garage, along with fully insulating the ceiling (walls were already done) and as much air sealing as I could. I have it set to 10°C in the winter 24/7 which is more than comfortable enough for me, and doesn't break the bank in terms of run cost. Yes, it was expensive, but I'd do it again.
I love my radiant floor heat.I use a Rheem instant 5k electric to heat a 40x16 very well insulated shop. The warm floor holds only 7 gallons of coolant, and no dry air is the only way to go. I live in North Dakota,some use propane, I have never used propane,hate the cons,especially death,lol
Great to see someone I can sympathize with. Awesome review thank you for the information. I have tried similar options but varied between electrical and propane options. So far the propane cabinet heater is most effective. Wife hates the BBQ type smell but it does the job.
Propane is fine, as long as the exhaust goes outside. All my spare steel I keep in the garage, has a lot of rust on it because of the propane heater I used. Thanks for watching.
I highly recommend a medium size infrared heater placed directly on the ground, not propped up. Heat rises so the lower the better and if the floor is warm, you are also warm. Mine heats up my two car garage to about 60 degrees Fahrenheit.
I have a 12x16 shed I insulated and heat with an 8 foot baseboard 220 electric heater, and use a 6000 but air conditioner all summer.
I use a kerosene heater in my garage and it heats it up quick.
Around here Kerosene is too expensive, thanks for watching.
Fumes and open flame.
I've had multiple different style garages over the years and by far the best setup I ever had was. You took an old trailer furnace and either putt up on blocks or made duckworks. To throw the air out forward on the ground could be diesel gas. It did not matter hell. My last one was set up. Is an extra doorway outside the building and it just threw hot air inside. The rest of the unit was outside in the snow and would heat my garage well. Over a 100° and a 5 gallon tail of oil would last me a week.
By far the best setup You could ever have.
And you used to be able to get them for free
Free is hard to come by nowadays, thanks for watching.
I have several classic Volkswagens and they aren’t the best at being airtight or at heating, some actually heat well but they take quite a while to get to a comfortable temperature, so I got a Chinese diesel heater and mounted it on a board that fits where the spare tire goes, I can swap it to whichever one I want to drive in just a few minutes and can let it heat the car up thoroughly before leaving for the drive.
You definitely tried a lot of heat sources, but many were fire hazards, not just the wood stove.
For my garage I have an old propane furnace mounted up on the ceiling, I use the small grill sized tanks, and I also have a heater called a Monitor that uses K1 kerosene, but I’ve used diesel and red fuel oil in it for many years with no issues at all.
If you're building your own garage, install pex tubing in your slab when you pour it and install an oil fired boiler. I used RV antifreeze instead of water in the system because I lived in Pennsylvania to prevent freezing in the winter months when I wasn't working in the garage.
It is easy to do when you build but impossible or costly to do after, thanks for watching.
Nice breakdown. I have a diesel heater keeping my place warm. Recently piped the exhaust thru an old cast iron steam radiator, close to 100% efficiency...
A lot of heat is lost to the exhaust, up to 40%. I should also do the same.
Thanks for the video! The diesel unit looks like the one I put on my sailboat 35ish years ago. Kept it toastie all winter for five years, great on fuel. Thinking of similar for the garage at new place.
You're welcome, good luck on the installation.
Im looking at doing mini split units for my house and garage. Old fuel oil furnace has finally bit the dust.
Chinese diesel heater can also run off of furnace oil, something to think about if you still have a tank of furnace oil.
@FRUGALWITHJOHN interesting. I still have like 200 gallons I didn't know how I was gonna get rid of it. I will look into that. Thank you.
I am going with a 7500watt 240 volt heater from Home Dept. Foil insulated the garage doors ( RUclips video is great ! ) R50 in the ceiling . NO open flame in the garage and workable temperatures . Can crack it up for painting. In floor heating would have been great ! Used a 5600 electric dryer on a makeshift extension cord for many years . I saw a set up that he built a wood heater room in a shed outside the garage (about 8 feet away ) and ducted in hot air through an insulated ducting underground to the garage . Very efficient and no open flame.
Everyone I know who tried to heat with an electric heater, stopped using it. They all said it cost way too much, I live in Canada so it does get cold.
@@FRUGALWITHJOHN electricity is a bit cheaper in BC than in many places but not free. Depending on what the limitations are ( I live in a strata ) maybe a combination of some sort works. Insulation is pretty important and DIY. Infrared heating is pretty passive tools etc warm up to the touch.
Didn’t realize you can’t run a wood stove in a garage but it makes sense great video thanks for sharing your experience
Thanks for watching!
Did you try a small mini-split? None of the problems you mentioned and a couple of advantages. It dehumidifies the shop while on 'cool' and it keeps the noise outside. All combustion releases moisture, some much more than others. Propane would be one of the worst. I had it in a house for both the furnace and the water heater. You could take a shower and the towels would still be wet the following day! Pulled it out and put an oil boiler in with great results, then during the 74 oil shortage (they learned then how a 'shortage' could boost prices) I put in a wood stove. That was, of course the ideal, when it comes to pulling moisture even out of a humid environment, but one hell of a lot of work and space is devoted to it. Propane and natural gas (for that matter any combustion source) can work if they have a closed combustion chamber using outside air and a tight exhaust stack but they will do nothing toward drying your air inside. Most do not use a closed chamber and therefore release moisture into the house. Ditto with water heaters that are propane or natural gas.
I heat mine with a propane heater. I've been doing it this way for the last 10 years without any issues. I do inspect my equipment on the regular though. When I finally get 220vac out here, I'll install a mini split.
Great for you for stepping in and helping your elderly neighbor out from getting ripped off. These people really should have been arrested and then criminally charged
Thanks and I agree 100%
@@FRUGALWITHJOHN I can only imagine how grateful he was for your help (or she) and not letting him get ripped off.
Now that was a great video years of heating experience im sure this will help many people ! ive got a diesel heater to i love it n there so cheep to run !!
Thanks, and thanks for watching.
I've been using kerosene radiant heaters for 30 years. Since the price went up I've been using the stuff I got with the heaters. At only .08 gallons per hour I can go all winter on a few gallons
At the very end of the video, you can see my old Kerosene heater, must be 40+ years old, was my dad's.
1st 15.5min background Now we're finnally getting what I needed2 know. TYVM
This is the best impersonation of Norm McDonald's impersonation Burt Reynolds I've ever seen. Love this guy😂.
Thanks
There's Moisture absorbing things that's work wonders on moisture in rooms. I'd have tried that and I always have a couple of silical gel packs in my tool boxes and anywhere moisture could cause damage.
I have stuff in my camper for moisture when in storage, I don't anything will work when heating with a Mr buddy.
The insurance thing with the wood stove i understand but are u playing it waterfalls or geysers of gas cuz gascus flammable obviously but its not like opening ur gas caps gonns cause an explision
No but removing a gas tank from a truck can be problematic.
I would have recommended a mini-split heat pump system. They even have DIY-install versions. No flames at all.
Thanks for helping neighbors, particularly older folks.
Always!
Thank you for having all this experience doing the wrong thing and sharing it with us. They say making mistakes is the best way to learn. Bet that was expensive though. Been there plenty myself. That's a lot of good information here, mister.
Glad you found it helpful!
Thanks for sharing. I ended up finding a cheap 240v (30A plug) electric heater (brand new in the box at a garage sale) which seems the most practical for the limited use it gets. The fan isn't too loud, it's switchable between 5,600W and like 3,600W I think, heats up my 3-car garage pretty quick. I can move it around my garage too so it's never in the way and can direct heat onto something if necessary.
Glad to hear you found a solution that works for you, just keep in mind your electric bill may take a massive jump.
That's it. I enjoyed this so much, I have subbed. I could listen to you for hours, John.
Thank You for "stepping in" for your neighbor!
I despise scammers. Hah! They got caught.
I actually have a Vevor 8 furnace. I don't have a garage. 😞 I got it for my small apartment as I don't have a thermostat and I am at the mercy of another rooms temp.. Not freezing but it is nice to have control. It is still in the box. I may just save it for when I do have a garage. Also, just so everyone knows, when you use the Vevor, always have a 12V battery running it with a controlled charge running off the grid power. (As John did show that is his set up). If you run it just off a power supply plugged into the wall and there is a power failure, the furnace will not be able to go through its shutdown sequence. From what I have read, just dropping power to these furnaces, while running, is NOT good. Hope this helps!
Thanks, and yes using a battery with a battery charge is the best way to power a diesel heater.
I use a wood fired out door boiler and old cast iron radiators I got from a old factory being torn down my 25x60 shop stays 70--73 degrees Fahrenheit all winter no matter how cold gets outside
An outside wood boiler is nice, it can also be fairly inexpensive to run, but that depends on where you live and how you get your wood.
I run what’s called a unit heater been using it for some 25 years works great .
Thank you for the upload, stay warm!
Thanks, will do!
I have a wood shop where moisture can create a lot of damage on power tool surfaces. I installed a mini-split HVAC system and never looked back. Cools and heats quietly. Dehumidification is an added bonus that keeps the moisture down. That is where you should go. Considering all the $ you've dished out already you could have one and be done.
That video is my experience of heating my garage over a span of 31 years, when I started mini-splits were not a thing in North America. My next endeavor will be a mini-split, but I will also need another source of heat because Ontario Hydro charges 55 cents a kilowatt hour. I will also need a solar set up for the mini-split.
You could have converted the gas furnace to propane and got a 500 gallon tank. Also we have a ICF house with a foam roof deck. Basically air tight. Making a negative pressure in the house is a good thing.
Thanks for the video! The fact that you were trying to help people through your trial and error will definitely save me some money. I generally used kerosene instead of the furnace, but kerosene has gotten over 8 dollars a gallon!? I know that it’s just the same as off road diesel I ask another person in the comments about additives for low sulfur diesel are you using additive and if so what is it? Also I didn’t know that propane caused moisture really glad that you added that cause I have things that I definitely can’t let Rust!
I don't use additives in my diesel, I do mix in old two-stroke gas/ mixed gas (one liter mixed gas to 9 liters of diesel. I only do this to get rid of old gas. I don't recommend this but been doing it for years. I only mention this because in some of my videos you will see the diesel tank has a blue tint to it. (the blue is 2-stroke oil) Thanks for watching.
I didn't read the description so i was watching the vid kinda worrying you WERENT gonna end on a diesel heater. Silly me.. anyway those things are great! Almost like magic. Next trick for mine is pump the exhaust up through the heating tube/chamber of a gas water heater in a small semi-detached shed and try to get some free hot water from the exhaust heat that im just dumping right now.
I put a radiant natural gas in mine. I love it. In my humble opinion, anything that produces heat is going to have some form of combustion. Rather than fight that due to gasoline leak/ fumes maybe have an emergency exhaust system in place where you could flick a switch and pump the fumed air out quicker. Sucking the air away from the heat source. Opposite wall from heat source. Or a one button emergency setup that turns on exhaust fan and opens the garage door with one push.
I designed and built my heavy oil heater out of necessity starts on deisel,runs on used oil.puts out about 25000btu wide open.
That's the way to go
My neighbor has the little diesel heater and it keeps his 2 car garage comfortable. I have a 200 sf motorcycle shop and have ordered a diesel heater for it.
They do work well, thanks for watching.