To make your diesel heater even more efficient, pipe your exhaust thru a finned manifold of some sort before you pipe it outside and you will utilize your heat loss a whole lot more! I have also seen guys use an old hot water heater and fill it with sand and then pipe the exhaust thru pre existing water line coil, utilizing the exhaust to heat the sand and getting radiant heat transfer off the sand filled hot water heater tank... You will cut your diesel costs in half!!
I was going to mention the very same thing as you about heat recovery from the exhaust on the diesel heaters. Definitely worth the effort as the extra heat gains/fuel savings are considerably high.👍
Make sure that the plenum you use was not discarded for leaking carbon monoxide, I've changed those a few times, and that was the only reason for changing them.
My friend and I instaled chinese diesel heater in his work shop... I was totally amazed at how well it works... No fumes, quiet, one gallon of diesel per 8 hours of heat... $ 100 bucks from Amazon...
To increase the efficiency of the diesel heater, I connected three meters of 28m copper pipe to the exhaust and mounted it with a small downwards slope to properly drain the condensation, this pipe is also verry useful for drying your gloves. LOL Greetings from the Netherlands
It was a HUGE investment, but I bought an eliminator waste oil burner. It burns used engine oil. For years I was looking for a way to heat my garage to work on hobbies without skyrocketing my electric bill. The oil stove is a blessing. I save all my oil changes, and accept donations. When I run out of oil I go back inside
❤ All of my local auto parts stores, have a forever full waste oil tank. You want to pull the oil from near the middle or top, to avoid water, dirt, and coolant.
Great video! Using the Chinese diesel heater, I would highly recommend a small garden tractor battery $25.00 at Wally World plus a battery maintainer…good ones are cheep on the big A store. The critical reason for the battery, is that even a momentary power cut will shut the heater down without going through its cooling cycle which almost certainly will result in a partial melt down of the controller circuit board mounted very close to the aluminum heater unit. Also in a worst case scenario could start a fire if unattended. Also mounted mine like your testing yours with double plywood foam board between with partially open window sealed down on the the plywood as explained above. You will loose a tremendous amount of efficiency imo if you put it outside. I of coarse vent the exhaust outdoors and bring in the burner air from outdoors as per code here and as you said you don’t want the burn chamber ingesting dust laden air. I use a battery from my garden tractor that sits idle all winter anyway. Having the unit inside is also much more convenient for fueling and monitoring fuel level, but heat loss was my main reason and in my 10x24 shop space is a real concern and find it takes up very little space. Hope some of this information is of some use to you.
Been using one to heat our tent when cold weather camping for a few years now. Built it out of a plano storage box. They work great, and are easy to work on.
I don’t usually comment but need to say, “I’m Impressed with your review!” I will try the Elephant Heater. My background is 10yrs. as a Natural Gas tech and 6yrs. with LPG. I’m a lic. power engineer with NIULPE and EPA HVAC cert. also so I must say you have given sound realistic advice within your practical approach. 🧐👍
Most people have electric clothes dryers but don't know how to heat their house with them. Their exhaust heat is humid and has some lint in it so you need a salt desicant, like road salt in multiple trays in a box, an enclosed container and an extra dust filter at the face of the box that is easy to clean. Build a box 1 foot high by about 3 x 3 feet with a round hole in the back and a larger rectangle hole in the front. Make tray shelves in the box to put five or six trays of road salt on to absorb moisture and a window screen on the front. Pipe your dryer heat into the box , and out the front heat will pour into the house while you are doing laundry. Or you can plumb it into your garage. Most families can manage a load a day and that's about 90 minutes of dryer time so why waste that heat to the outside of the house in winter time.?
I'm using a 8kW diesel parking heater to heat my condo, and it's works great! Its been below freezing here regularly this winter, and the home is nice and warm - barefoot, shorts, and t-shirt temps. 5 gal. US lasts anywhere from 5 to 10 days depending on how cold it gets outside. Far less expensive than heating with electricity, and by dumping the exhaust outside, no water condensation issues - nice, dry heat.
After insulating my shop I ran some PEX tubing from my gas boiler to two large cast iron radiators but mostly I use my wood burning stove to provide heat. The firewood is free and the stove and a wood splitter were the only upfront cost.
Not a fan of unvented heaters. Even if the smell is negligible or non existent you are breathing what amounts to "dead air" and cracking a door or window means losing efficiency of heating and thus burning more fuel to keep the room temp where you want it. Love your presentation; clear and crisp. 🙂
Have the same type unit. Have a 200,000 btu waste oil heater for my shop, but heat my 10 X 12 office with the diesel heater during the day when Not out in the shop. Cheaper to run and keeps it nice and toasty without wasting all of the energy heating a 3000 sqft building for just one office. For under $150 it was a great deal and works great.
Great video that is complete. Thank you for pre - guessing the questions. Mini split also does not do well in low cold, 35F (ish) and below though they do provide AC. The propane works during a power outage. Pellet stove and diesel heater need a small power source. Diesel heater is designed to run off a car battery. Solar cell helps with recharging. Pellet stoves need 120V and produce a fair load when starting. It is a low load when running - just the blower fan and pellet feed auger. Yes they have gravity feed pellet units. Waste oil burners need a blower and combustion chamber.
Got a Chinese diesel heater in basement ran exhaust through a 1 inch emt pipe along bottom wall 10ft and up 7ft vented through cinder block to capture exhaust heat No issues with leaks or fumes exhaust pipe radiates like a baseboard heater
WARNING: I bought this Vevor unit but half the winter later it failed with the burner fouled and blowing smoke. Upon examination it turned out it was assembled wrong. The pressure fuel tube was coiled to facilitate easy assembly and the air bubble trapped in there caused the pulsations to become neutralized. This missing pulsation caused the fuel atomizer screen to fail atomizing and burning large particles gradually caused carboning up. I had to take apart the burner and totally clean it out. IF YOU GET A GOOD BURN NOW you can avoid this laborious cleaning, because a good hot burn will clean out the carbon. You would need to take the box apart and make sure the pressure side tube is a straight run upward into the burner in order to purge any air bubbles. After that it's a good heater.
a minisplit in a woodshop situation would create a higher maintenance issue due to your afore mentioned issue with dust... as a woodworker, that's something I considered as well. I installed a pellet stove and am impressed with the ease of use, less effort (read as time spent) in fuel acquisition, thermostatic control and elimination of mess involved with wood heat. I'm willing to forego the A/C for the limited seasonal use in favor of the benefit of cold season temperature control. Humidity has a lot more to do with excess environment heat, so will opt for a dehumidifier rather than an A/C unit
Did you try a sawdust stove? Woodworker/shop means unlimited low cost near free fuel no electricity optional low speed fan if beneficial with 10 hours burn/heating.
id recommend buying some clear plastic sheeting and putting that over all 4 walls to make yourself a air sealed bubble, the insulation will be able to breathe just fine but that air seal will make such a difference.
The walls do need to breath some or you get condensation and wet insulation. Cheap Tyvek clone house wrap will seal up good but still allow some breathing. I have Tyvek cloned wrap with R35 in attic, R21 in walls and a floor is tiled over plywood over 2x4 laid flat with R9.6 worth of Polyisocyanate insulation. I just bought one of the Vevor 8kw heaters to install in my 725 sq/ft garage.
I have a MrCool DIY two ton heat pump it was 1325 on sale when I bought it I don't want it to happen but it could quit working tomorrow and I would feel like it doesn't owe me a damn thing. Plus it's clean heat no fumes no soot no dust no condensation.
You are exactly right. Been there done that. My prices and figures are almost the exactly same as yours. I have never used one of the diesel heaters but have been thinking about it. I have a farm tax permit and can get farm diesel too. As far as cooling I do have some experience with the window inverter units. I used them this last summer and shut my central unit off. I saved a little over $100 a month and stayed just as comfortable with two units running. They are super quite. Cost less than $400 each. I am in a hot humid climate and highly recommend them.
9:07; we had non vented p. stoves like this one in our house. after going through sinus infections, upper respiratory problems, headaches & dizziness, i found that even if you vent for carbon monoxide, the combustion creates other non vented gases; sulphur dioxide & nitrogen dioxide. those were the problem. & after removing the heaters, our collective health returned. the other caution is that these gases alter the color of anything they land on...
If you have enough moving air then anything can be ventilated, just gotta make sure your doing so up high and down low as gasses have different density's
The best way to go is an outdoor wood heated boiler. They are quite expensive, but can be home built reasonably priced. Run insulated tubing into the building to heat exchangers in corners, it shouldn't take up too much space.
I've been in HVAC for 40 yrs. I don't like mini splits at all, they have a tendency to leak at the fittings in cold climates plus all electric. Just get a window unit for cooling. Check out rinnai heaters easy installation easy propane conversion, they vent outside through the wall (3in pipe) and take up very little room. They come in various btu sizes.
@@OUTDOORS55 if you're going to install yourself. Goodman, whirlpool. Unfortunately if you want a carrier or Bryant and there's a few others they're all Dealer represented. In other words the general public can't purchase them. The latter two I mentioned are good but expensive.
Finishing the walls with drywall will almost make the same improvement as insulation and might be hlf of the heating bill. If You use plywood Youll have to seal the edges with putty and drywall tape or it wont do much good
Was wondering about that. Part of my basement level is above ground. The contractor who built it insulated it but didn’t put up drywall. I put up freakin peg board on the outside wall where it wasn’t blocked by stuff, and it actually raised the temperature by a couple of degrees. Made me think there is a small hole and the pegboard pushed the insulation snug. Drywall has got to make a big difference, right?
Thanks! Seen many videos of the "Chinese heater" used by campers for tents and RVs and always wondered if one could work well in a workshop environment. My woodshop isn't used everyday, so for 25 years I heated with a small wood stove, installed to code, since I had wood scrap to burn and free access to burning logs. Unfortunately, my home insurance provider threatened to cancel my insurance unless the stove was removed, even though it meets all local codes. I checked with other insurance providers and all either refused to insure my home and shop, or they wanted an additional $1,500 per year of insurance premiums. I was forced to replace my wood stove with a propane system.
You can use a long exhaust in the shop to get the hot exhaust on the room before it goes out through heat exchange. You can also use waste oil in that and it is surprising how clean it is
Using waste engine oil always carbons up the mesh ring inside the primary combustor chamber. It shortens the service life dramatically. The long exhaust is a defo good mod and improves the heating efficiency by a big margin.
Greetings! A very good video, most informative! I also have purchased a heater like yours, 8KW. It has not been installed yet. Now the point: like you, I do not like to "throw away" BTUs, and so I am planning to route my exhause gasses through a 60's model Volkswagen Exhaust derived heated air. Such a heat exchanger is already engineered to harvest heat energy from Exhaust Gasses, and works very well. Good luck, Ciao!
i put a Rinnai natural gas direct vent in my basement. i love it. was not cheap or easy though(poured concrete foundation, brick veneer walls, heater unit 7-8' below the final exhaust exit).
I'm in a warm climate, I do wonder how many folk in very cold (compared to here) have small workshops with a coupla feet of dirt against the walls & on the roof to help retain the heat? Ahhh that sounds like an evil doers bunker but thinking along the lines of a roots cellar. Seriously cost prohibitive I guess but making the heat must be one thing, but not losing through window glass & even closed doors is one thing but also insulated walls & roof. How much is too much insulation? Maybe there isn't such a thing when you have snow or or long very hot days. You're providing greta food for thought, great work
Have you considered making a gasifier to run a generator that could run the shop ( or running the syn gas through a compressor and into a large tank similar to propane storage. It isn't near as efficient but it's possibly free, especially if you want to add a few extra steps you could even burn house trash in the thing ) ; and installing adjustable heat sink from the gasifier to heat the shop or make an insulated surround with a vent and a fan and attach a thermostat device. One of the biproducts/condensates of the gas is diesel. They are simple to build with plenty of plans available. FEMA republished gasifier plans not too long ago, but they are basically the same ones from the 40s. They are perfectly legal. And since we seem to be very near nuclear war it makes sense
I have a big problem with moisture in the air with my heater. I am in Western Michigan and the cold here is crazy. I have been trying to figure a way to remove the moisture in the air. I have a propane heater with a 100 pound tank behind the workshop. It works the best to keep it warm.
Hi Michiganer, I'm just east of GR. You need something vented, when you burn off the oxygen in the combustion process, you are left with the moisture. In a vented system you won't have that problem, but you will loose a little heat.
@@timm2020 Shoot, that's northern West Michigan lol. I miss going up that way, used to go up that way a lot, now I don't get north much at all. Sometimes just south of you in the silver lake area at a buddies cottage on the north side of the dunes right off lake mi. There's actually a few videos on my channel taking down some good sized white pines up there last spring. He wants me to head up there again this yr to drop one more that's even larger, it was struck by lightening. I've seen many of those propane heaters being used inside tighter homes or homes with older windows, you see the moisture on the windows and the walls after running them for a short time, a vented unit will take care of that problem. I heat nearly 100% with a wood stove, the rest is with a pellet stove just to help on the real cold days, or when I'm going to be out for a few days. Have a great weekend :).
Modern heat pumps are amazingly efficient. With Coefficients of Performance (CoP) from 2.5 to 5. So if you had a CoP of 3.5 you could put 1000 watts in and get 3500 watts of heat out. It's much more efficient to move heat than to make heat. Plus a heat pump can be run in cooling mode in the summer. Using your numbers, a CoP 3.5 heat pump would cost you $0.04 per 3412btuhr
Give a try to infrared stoves but you need the big powerful models for big rooms, they are cost effective and the heat is super comfortable (very different from conventional heaters). Off course take proper safeties for fire risks, fire prevention. Infrared will not heat 100% of the space but if you are inside the heat cone they are very pleasant also for breathing (no combustion or heavy air). If temerature drops down too much, probably infrared alone are not enough but they can work with classic heaters simultaneously.
If the area is insulated good enuf then those will certainly end up heating the whole area, just under the cone like you mentioned will be much warmer, but yes they do a good job for sure
20:00 It is important to note, the direct(unvented) propane heater vents the products of combustion directly into the living space. (carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, and steam/water, and small amounts of other such yuck) If the moisture/humidity doesn't vent to outside with the natural air exchanges, it may condense (if it reaches the dewpoint) to some midpoint in the insulation (nondecomposing fiberglass) or some midpoint in the wooden structure. If you had some kind of vapor barrier (like 1 to 5 mil plastic) stapled to the inside of the studs near the insulation would prevent (or slow) the passage of condensible moisture through that barrier into the structure of your walls/ceiling.
Hey, Alex, "Thank You!" for another great video. Just be aware, we may not be able to buy fuel in the near future. I want a wood heater/stove for 'emergency' use. If I can scrounge up the bucks I'm thinking 'cylinder stove' but I'd rather buy used used. Have a GREAT day, Neighbor!
Ha! Finally a diesel heater video using a 120V to 12V converter (20A). Trying to power off a battery or battery charger is a bit of a fight because of the startup surge current (~12A).
Hopefully heat pumps can improve both in cost effectiveness and quality within the next decade or so. I enjoyed Matthias Wandel's recent minisplit video where he compared it to gas heating for his house -- definitely a different use case, but similar climate I believe. Right now I see the main advantage as being two systems in one, being able to air condition an area as well (or perhaps better) than heating them, perhaps making them more ideal for living spaces than working ones. They just have some ground to make up to be a good replacement for these dead simple heaters that are cheap both to purchase and fuel.
I think the bigger issue is being able to Insulate properly, if an area is well insulated then it retains the heat from say a heat pump better meaning it doesn't have to work nearly as hard to raise the temp of the area it's trying to do just that in
Heat pumps work good until the outdoor temps get to the 20's or the weather creates ice conditions. They're nowhere near on par with fossil fuels. If you're trying to maintain a 50 degree shop, a heat pump will likely do good for that. If you're try to get to 65-70 ro be in the shop, you'll likely want a fossil fuel item to get you up there and then let the heat pump maintain. In the HVAC industry we call these dual fuel systems.
@DIY Chad 726 insulation plays a huge role on the building envelope. But in the end, we're trying to heat the refrigerant up with the outdoor air. At a certain point we've crossed a line of diminishing returns. We refer to this as "balance point" in the industry. The point where the heat loss is equal to or greater than the heat input from the heat pump. At this time we will switch from the heat pump to a fossil fuel burning piece of equipment.
The most efficient and best heat pump you could easily use year round would be a geo thermal system. These are very expensive to install which creates long periods of time to see the pay back on investment. However once installed, it's easy to see on the monthly utility bills just how much money we spend on conditioning the air in our spaces. A monthly bill reduction of half is very common.
As an observer with no professional expertise, I'm thinking the big electric heater and the little one may be closer to a wash in running cost. The big one would get you warm faster but maintaining happy temp should be equal. Give or take. I know you were baiting your ultimate solution but felt obliged to make the point. Huzzah!
I have a diesel heater in my shop too. The worst part of the propane heaters is they introduce a lot of moisture into the air. As for the Chinese diesle heater the 8kw one is a lie they are rebadged 5kw.
Yes they don't consume enough fuel to be 8kw👍 I dont have problems with any moisture. We have super dry air here in the wintertime so the added moisture is appreciated. Its the smell that gets me due to the open flame 👍🙂
@@OUTDOORS55 ahh well here in Ireland the air is never dry 😂 I have the heater setup outside pulling in fresh air so it’s not as efficient as it could be but help keep it fresher feeling as the space is pretty well sealed. Would recommend looking at some option to add a car battery to your heater, if you have a power outage when it’s running it will shut off and can then overheat the electronics as it’s doesn’t do the cool down cycle. The power draw once up to heat is only about 30-60w so it doesn’t need to be a big battery.
Hi Alex, I really enjoy your no-nonsense, information rich videos, thanks! And you are occasionally amusing! It is a common misconception that it is more efficient to keep a space heated 24/7 rather than only when it is occupied. Heat loss is directly proportional to temperature difference. If the heat is turned off, the space will cool due to heat loss. The rate of heat loss will decrease as the space cools. When the space is reheated, the amount of heat lost has to be replaced in order to bring the space back to temperature. Due to the decreased temperature, less heat has been has been lost than if the space had been maintained at the higher temperature. It is more efficient to allow the space to cool when not using it.
Heating and cooling causes condensation... which rusts tools and equipment. Best to avoid large temperature swings. Plus, once it's really cold inside it takes a LONG time to warm up... and the faster you warm it up, the more condensation is produced.
It costs huge amounts of money and energy to keep heating frozen air and all the frozen items in the room from no heat..keeping the temperature above freezing at all times will be cheaper than heating..freezing..heating..freezing.. Now let's talk about controlling andctreating the mold and mildew caused by the excessive moisture generated from constant hot cold cycles..oh yeah, what about the constant maintenance and replacement of tools and electrical equipment damaged from all that moisture..time to re-evaluate your "facts".
I think there is a $2000 tax credit now for a few years on pellet stoves. Depending on your tax situation , that may equate to a free pellet stove other than the cost of the fuel. They also come with thermostats. I heat my home with wood below 35 degrees and heat pump above that here in the moderate climate of Charlotte NC. ( the wood unit came with the home and provides good exercise for me, I get the wood for just my labor ) Many things to consider and you covered a lot with various fuels.
Great video! The problem for me with diesel is that it smells like a diesel truck is running right outside all day. That may or may not bother you. Propane puts off a lot of water vapor with can cause humidity problems overnight.
Did you consider osb instead of drywall for walls? OSB is much nicer to work with and way nicer for putting up shelving, hanging tools on wall etc. Has about same insulation value as drywall.
Yeah, id like to but technically its not code here and id rather have the greater fire resistance with drywall. I dont pland on attaching anything to the walls anyway. Everything will be on wheels an mobile so i can move thong around.🙂👍
Just ran across this video, thanks! I'm in a pretty similar situation. We inherited a house with a detached 2 car garage that I'm making into my workshop. It's far enough north that I need heat to be able to use it during the fall and winter. Incidentally I just made my first knife recently, so thanks for your instructional videos! Since there is already a chimney setup I plan on putting in a wood stove for days I'll be working all day, but I think I'll look at the diesel option as well.
When I lived in the bush of Alaska it cost us 30 cents a gal for the # 2;the heating oil we bought by ,,55 gal barells. My Kenmore pot burner would burn a gal a day keeping my cabin at bout 36 deg.( Not freezing) while I was gone running my trap lines. It's just sitting out in the weather cause it would be cheaper to just burn cash. And Vevor is a pretty shabby product line. They make a lot of types of heaters. I live in the mountains waaay off grid and burn a big barell heater in my tractor shop. ( Wood burner,) Cost is labor and saw fuel n oil.
Did a trick and uped it to 90 ish %. The exhaust steams when it comes out. Also if you upgraded to a vented propane to get rid of the spell and dust issue it would have exhaust losses also
The most powerful heater I’ve ever seen was intended for using outdoor or in a building that has no heat and it was when I worked at a steel mill. They ended up getting these heaters that they had were electric and you could plug it up to a I can’t remember the actual voltage but I think it was 210? Anyway you could set it 30 to z50 feet from you and turn it on and it would blow hot air that whole length and warm up everything in that stretch.
And your not talking about one of those torpedo heater that uses kerosene or diesel to burn to create the heat then a big fan (reason for plugging it in) to blow said heat...... Those are the most powerful I've ever seen
You can put the diesel heater exhaust through a radiator so you can generate heat if you keep it inside. I'm in the process of insulating and heating my garage. I feel like I just saw the future of me seeing how you tried different things. Thanks for the video!
Ive head of that but see some people have problems if not done correctly. There's plenty of videos on RUclips about these things. Im sure someone has one who figured it out👍
@@OUTDOORS55 yep! I've been watching so many videos on heating a garage. I have a detached garage that I am working on. I have the walls insulated but need to work on the ceiling. It's super leaky so I'm trying to think of a way to go overboard. Right now it seems a pellet stove but that's a lot of work haha.
My 30x40 Shop will have a Heated Floor from My OWB to maintain a low temp, Then a Wall mounted fan Coil unit the Quickly bring the temp up. Thanks . Mike M.
A good combo for the elephant heater for a lot of people would be a timer switch/plug. Just set the on/off cycle and plug n forget lol. But that might only be good if you are a very routine person
@@andrioszWell yeah I know that. I'm talking about a timer like what a lot of retail shops or even plant growers use to regulate cycles. I personally would set it up like this if I was going to be in my shop the same time every day, you wouldn't need to worry about going out there to start the heating cycle it would be doing it already. But I'm only bring it up cause he turns the whole system off over night.
@@andriosz I saw a video where a guy did add a thermostat to his diesel heater thru the keychain remote and was able to get it to go thru it's shut down cycle each time. Very interestingly done and effective!
A mini split is awesome for a garage...my shop is a similar detached two car garage with basic insulation....in Iowa. I have a Pioneer brand, ordered from Home Depot for about $800 that is 12kbtu unit rated to -13F and it easily heats the shop. Bonus... it cools the shop too, keeping a nice climate controlled space with no fuss. When the temps are below zero, of course the heat output drops off pretty quick but does still put out some heat even at the rated -13. If we get a cold snap.. -20f for a couple days or so... then I run a diesel heater or electric if I want to work in the shop. If I ever build a new shop, I would probably get a -22F rated unit and set up a diesel heater too as a backup. You can install a mini split diy... but you do need a few specialty tools... vac pump, gauges, flare tool... couple hundred bucks on the cheap end. The best part... is that a mini split is the cheapest to run by a long shot.
@@OUTDOORS55 It would take a few years to break even for sure...depending on how long your winter season is. When I put in mine, it was replacing a 220 electric heater that would cost $3-4 a day through the winter and the mini split is only $1 a day so for me it should take around 3 years to break even for the $1000 install
So, for that diesel heater, could you increase efficiency if you put the exhaust, instead of outside directly, but going through a heat exchanger that sits on the wall with a fan behind it, blowing the exhaust HEAT (not fumes) back into the garage and the output of the exchanger vents then outside? (I'm not sure if I explained that correctly).
If a wood stove is properly installed it's perfectly safe . Ive heated 24/7 for 47 years . However insurance companies frown on them in garages and it's been my experience anyway they won't insure garage or out buildings. You may find different. But as far as safe , I'd argue properly done a stove and chimney maintained is as safe as any heating source mentioned and probally safer than some .
you can heat how you like, but maybe consider a hot air oil furnace 80k btu, i have one in my garage and works awsome. cheap to run, and one in my house, running both 24/7 i go through roughly 80 gal per mnth. now the house is 80x24 and the garage is 24x24. wood stoves are good for back up but toss the ventless heater for shure, no money is worth getting sick.
Question , could you put the unit outside , run the fresh air intake thru the wall so its getting warmer air than outside and also run the heating tube thru the wall ?
Good ideas and job dude 👍👍. You’re right the propane has a smell . Like these choices and appreciate you sharing these options especially the elephant heater . Didn’t even know it existed . I’m in Ohio and have seen many different redneck heating systems from old converted dryers to dbl stacked barrels or wood burners 😊. Whatever works best for the person is the way to go and getting the cheapest heat is paramount around here .
Dude you need a rocket mass heater, look it up. I burn pine cones in mine because they are easier to collect with and no sawing needed. Twigs and branches that I can snap with my hands.
Your electricity is incredibly cheap compared to ours in Massachusetts---just went up to more than 48 cents per kW-hr! We just got a "high-efficiency" mini-split, and it's the best there is (Mitsubishi), for just one large room. It's a great air conditioner, but running it for heat in the winter is very expensive, even with the oil heat still running. Our electricity bill was nearly $800 last month! So, the plan around here seems to be to get everyone to switch to these heat pumps and electric cars, then jack up the electricity rates so that we all freeze to death and can't go anywhere. Welcome to the Green New Deal!
Yeah I agree. Ours is very cheap but still expensive compared to alternatives. No way would I switch to all electrical. At least not until solor becoms a more reasonable option.
I bet he forgot to electric distribution charges which run around .17cents a kilowatt… so .15 + .17=0.32 per kilowatt for electric…. Also natural gas … approx same distribution cost structure… diesel or propane likely has the lowest operational cost….
I used to drive trucks to Canada from Texas and Arizona etc. But when I got "up north" like in Montana and Alberta etc, in the dead of winter they only sell Number ONE Diesel. So, since you are "up north" do you run Number ONE or Number Two?? Or does it make any difference. If you run OFF ROAD diesel you are probably running Number 2, but I would like to know for sure. In Texas all Diesel is Number Two years round, off road and Road use.
@@OUTDOORS55 In Texas the off road fuel is about 40 Cents per gallon cheaper than Highway fuel with the Road Use Tax on it. That heater probably doesn't care if it is number one or two. ONE is low grade kerosene is what I have always heard, less likely to gel in lower temps. Gelling shouldn't be a problem in your shop, you could turn on one of your other heaters and they would warm it up so that the gelling would dissipate, or thaw or whatever you call it. Nice Video!!!
Great info. I’m just wondering approximately where you’re located. I am near Lansing Michigan. Just wondered what type of temperatures you’re dealing with. I’ve been considering insulating my garage also.
Biomass reactor heaters are cool as shit... Run black water line and coil it on the ground then dump your compost on top. Temps at the core will be around 180.. some farmers heat their barns and green house all winter long
In Europe most farm house "People living areas" are on the 2 and 3rd floor. The first floor are all the cattle or sheep sleep. Their body heat does help warm the floors.
I hate to tell you this, but 1 inch of that Styrofoam insulation is equal to 18 inches of fiberglass batting, but you do have to use some sort of jiffy foam to fill the gaps with the fiberglass you only have the width of the 2 x 4 studs even if you have two by sixes it’s not enough the spray insulation foam is expensive but is essentially turns your walls into an igloo cooler then you have the issue of making sure you have proper ventilation because you can heat some thing with Styrofoam all the way around with very little heat. I have a shop that is 80 x 80 with a 14 foot ceiling spray foam insulation and with a 50,000 BTU torpedo heater. It literally will run you out of there but because of the ventilation issue , it will literally burn up all the oxygen and you will get sick so I put a smaller propane heater and it does the trick again the cost is in the initial insulating of your shop . and in the summertime in his big is a sharp as I have I have only two 5000 BTU window units that cools the entire thing the trick is do you want to pay me now or pay me later if you pay for the good insulation you won’t be paying the high fuel bills, but the initial cost is quite high. Sorry about the punctuation. This is a microphone. I am not typing it. And it might seem like it runs altogether. Either way you get the point you have a great video but it’s like anything if you do it correctly the first time you don’t have to do it again . I am looking into pellet stoves. They are economically a better deal. Thanks again for the video and for your time..
You can heat that space with a propane bottle stove. I installed mine on a stand so it takes no floor space. At that size(20lb propane bottle), I burn in 1-2 hour increments. That is to say you have to add wood about every hour to keep it HOT or if you're slow burning, you can go 2+ hours per 10lb of wood, give or take. I have a couple 40 ft trailers welded together and I've put R10 foam and sheeting over the exterior, so I'm about as insulated as you look to be. Probably less due to the fact the trailers are on blocks and cold air get's under and the floor isn't insulated at all.
We have become addicted to wood heat, as we live in the woods, which need upkeep. The forest needs tending, our bodies need exorcize (ridding ourselves of lazy demon's ha! )our cabin needs heat. We have baseboard hot water for back up due to circumstances. (lazy demon possession) THANKS for your video ... I've been investigating diesel heaters for a landscaper trailer workshop ... like you, our tiny camp wood stove does have safety and convenience concerns for unoccupied small areas
Nice and blue flame, you won't be making much CO at all... (if any) But the headaches could come from one of two things: a high CO2 concentration (after all, a perfectly combusted propane exhaust is CO2 and water, reducing the relative amount of oxygen you breathe, _and_ it's using the oxygen in your workshop to burn, so the effect is doubled); or like you indicate the "smell", which are sulfuric oxides because for safety reasons they mix H2S in the propane (propane is odorless, so they mix in a volatile unpleasant smell in order to be able to detect leaks quickly, and usually they pick H2S because it's cheap and most people really dislike rotten eggs). Obviously the H2S passes through the flames and gets burned too, and those products are bound to give you headaches and possibly burning eyes too.
and yes, I know it's equipped with a low oxygen shut-off. Those are usually set to 18% (flames die below 14%, people die below 16%, so you won't die which is fair enough for the legal department), but the headaches will occur as soon as you drop below 19.5% (some people are more sensitive to it than others, also depending on altitude, and other factors)
I have a 110m² badly insulated workshop. I keep it at 18°C 24/7 with a 14KW pellet stove. Clean, eco friendly, wifi connected,... and cheaper than anything else.
Except a mini-split electric heat pump can PUMP 12,000 BTU per hour for $0.15 of electricity would be more economical... Bottom line: 1) insulate the space i.e. R35, 2) heat with low cost fuel be it cordwood, pellet, coal, waste oil, electricity, diesel etc. 3) use low cost heat device be it fireplace, stove, barrel, etc. 4) Upgrade to a) low cost device, b) low cost fuel... c) DIY v box store... d) Return on Investment... how long? Video makes good points. $$$ Monthly cheap DIY is key! Good luck!
@@douglaspohl1827 Maybe where you live that might be the case. Diy insulation would cost me €12.000, a unit to heat the place, €7.500. I have 285m³ to heat due to high ceilings. Electricity in Belgium is more expensive than organs. The pellet stove was €3000 installed and the pellets are €800/year with 100% tax return.
@IP Knives Imperfectly Perfect Knives Easy decision $800/year with 100% fuel tax credit. Love my 15 year old pellet stove too. Working on another heating stove since Douglas fir trees need major $$$$ trim/removal so going to build a forced-air cordwood heater with alt natural convention design should power go out or good old fireplace to get by outage. Do the math... numbers do not lie... Thanks.
Nice comparison. Some remarks though. 1) A 6kW electric heater will not double the cost on electricity w.r.t. a 3kW heater as it will run less hours to get and hold the shop on 60 degrees. 2) The blue flames in the propane heater converter the carbon-hydrogen gas into CO2 and H2O, so besides carbon dioxide there will be a lot of water vapour blasted into the shop which will go into your wall isolation.
Thats not what i said. Im compairing cost per btu per hour. Thats where the info at the end comes into play. The water vapor is not problem in our climate and is welcome addition with our super dry winters.
I tried a Buddy heater in my teardrop camper and found that they don’t work at higher altitudes. So when camping at 8500 feet then its oxygen sensor would kickoff. The other downside is that it made a lot of moisture in the air, so we had more condensation on windows, walls, etc. I put in a diesel parking heater and it runs at any altitude that I camp at. We’d only consume about a half gallon of fuel over night, and its power draw on the battery is impressively light. Once started, it draws .85 amp or about 10 watts to run the pump and fan. It’s also very dry, which dries out everything, but it can be too dry and give headaches. Oddly, I’ve heard of electric vehicle owners installing a diesel heater in the trunk. Apparently, the EVs heat the car cabin using resistive heat which draws down the battery and thus reduces range. A diesel parking heater uses way less power from the battery and thus preserves the range. So if you see a Tesla filling up at the diesel pump, now you know.
if you cover them walls with plastic it will make a world of difference, even more if you use some radiant barrier. insulation is only as good as the drafts.
Very interesting video - enjoyed the math ! I heat with wood pellets in a rocket stove. A 40 lb bag of wood pellets is roughly $6 and contains 320,000 btus (at the advertised rate of 8000 btu/lb). Given that, 3412 btus costs aprox 6.4 cents. The rocket stove is extremely efficient, my exhaust temps are shockingly low when she's running full blast. I'm going to guess it's 85% efficient, which takes the cost from 6.4 up to 7.5 cents per 3412 btus. Buying wood pellets in bulk saves about 20 %, roughly $5 per 40 lb bag.
I’m assuming you don’t have access to natural gas, which is a shame because it’s about half the price of propane. I use gas and it’s cheap. Plus the part of an endless tap. No tank refills to deal with.
Thank you for sharing this. I'm currently looking for an efficient way to heat my shop. It's the same size as yours but I have taller walls with no attic. What do you use to keep it 45° overnight? God bless!
@@OUTDOORS55 Nice Vid. Yep, the first fire to heat up the Thermal Mass is what costs a lot. Once the mass is warm it takes less to get back up to room temp. Unfortunately, the reverse in summertime cooling.
To make your diesel heater even more efficient, pipe your exhaust thru a finned manifold of some sort before you pipe it outside and you will utilize your heat loss a whole lot more! I have also seen guys use an old hot water heater and fill it with sand and then pipe the exhaust thru pre existing water line coil, utilizing the exhaust to heat the sand and getting radiant heat transfer off the sand filled hot water heater tank... You will cut your diesel costs in half!!
I was going to mention the very same thing as you about heat recovery from the exhaust on the diesel heaters. Definitely worth the effort as the extra heat gains/fuel savings are considerably high.👍
Make sure that the plenum you use was not discarded for leaking carbon monoxide, I've changed those a few times, and that was the only reason for changing them.
The thing to be aware of is that makes the exhaust condensing, which will usually deteriorate your exhaust system.
That's a smart idea.
As long as it’s not too constricted, having a reliable carbon monoxide detector nearby is obviously necessary.
My friend and I instaled chinese diesel heater in his work shop... I was totally amazed at how well it works... No fumes, quiet, one gallon of diesel per 8 hours of heat... $ 100 bucks from Amazon...
To increase the efficiency of the diesel heater, I connected three meters of 28m copper pipe to the exhaust and mounted it with a small downwards slope to properly drain the condensation, this pipe is also verry useful for drying your gloves. LOL
Greetings from the Netherlands
Yeah, extract every BTU out of that fuel !
Any issues with fuel gelling on the coldest of days?
@@haywoodjahblomee2714out your fuel inside if it's an issue
It was a HUGE investment, but I bought an eliminator waste oil burner. It burns used engine oil. For years I was looking for a way to heat my garage to work on hobbies without skyrocketing my electric bill. The oil stove is a blessing. I save all my oil changes, and accept donations. When I run out of oil I go back inside
❤ All of my local auto parts stores, have a forever full waste oil tank.
You want to pull the oil from near the middle or top, to avoid water, dirt, and coolant.
Great video! Using the Chinese diesel heater, I would highly recommend a small garden tractor battery $25.00 at Wally World plus a battery maintainer…good ones are cheep on the big A store. The critical reason for the battery, is that even a momentary power cut will shut the heater down without going through its cooling cycle which almost certainly will result in a partial melt down of the controller circuit board mounted very close to the aluminum heater unit. Also in a worst case scenario could start a fire if unattended. Also mounted mine like your testing yours with double plywood foam board between with partially open window sealed down on the the plywood as explained above. You will loose a tremendous amount of efficiency imo if you put it outside. I of coarse vent the exhaust outdoors and bring in the burner air from outdoors as per code here and as you said you don’t want the burn chamber ingesting dust laden air. I use a battery from my garden tractor that sits idle all winter anyway. Having the unit inside is also much more convenient for fueling and monitoring fuel level, but heat loss was my main reason and in my 10x24 shop space is a real concern and find it takes up very little space. Hope some of this information is of some use to you.
Definitely doesn't melt anything, mine has had the power cut out about 10x now and its fine.
Been using one to heat our tent when cold weather camping for a few years now. Built it out of a plano storage box. They work great, and are easy to work on.
I don’t usually comment but need to say, “I’m Impressed with your review!” I will try the Elephant Heater. My background is 10yrs. as a Natural Gas tech and 6yrs. with LPG. I’m a lic. power engineer with NIULPE and EPA HVAC cert. also so I must say you have given sound realistic advice within your practical approach. 🧐👍
He always does!!! 👍👍👍
Most people have electric clothes dryers but don't know how to heat their house with them. Their exhaust heat is humid and has some lint in it so you need a salt desicant, like road salt in multiple trays in a box, an enclosed container and an extra dust filter at the face of the box that is easy to clean. Build a box 1 foot high by about 3 x 3 feet with a round hole in the back and a larger rectangle hole in the front. Make tray shelves in the box to put five or six trays of road salt on to absorb moisture and a window screen on the front. Pipe your dryer heat into the box , and out the front heat will pour into the house while you are doing laundry. Or you can plumb it into your garage. Most families can manage a load a day and that's about 90 minutes of dryer time so why waste that heat to the outside of the house in winter time.?
I'm using a 8kW diesel parking heater to heat my condo, and it's works great! Its been below freezing here regularly this winter, and the home is nice and warm - barefoot, shorts, and t-shirt temps. 5 gal. US lasts anywhere from 5 to 10 days depending on how cold it gets outside. Far less expensive than heating with electricity, and by dumping the exhaust outside, no water condensation issues - nice, dry heat.
After insulating my shop I ran some PEX tubing from my gas boiler to two large cast iron radiators but mostly I use my wood burning stove to provide heat. The firewood is free and the stove and a wood splitter were the only upfront cost.
Not a fan of unvented heaters. Even if the smell is negligible or non existent you are breathing what amounts to "dead air" and cracking a door or window means losing efficiency of heating and thus burning more fuel to keep the room temp where you want it. Love your presentation; clear and crisp. 🙂
Have the same type unit. Have a 200,000 btu waste oil heater for my shop, but heat my 10 X 12 office with the diesel heater during the day when Not out in the shop. Cheaper to run and
keeps it nice and toasty without wasting all of the energy heating a 3000 sqft building for just one office. For under $150 it was a great deal and works great.
Is there such a thing as a low output waste oil heater.... like 5-10k btu????
Great video that is complete. Thank you for pre - guessing the questions.
Mini split also does not do well in low cold, 35F (ish) and below though they do provide AC.
The propane works during a power outage. Pellet stove and diesel heater need a small power source. Diesel heater is designed to run off a car battery. Solar cell helps with recharging.
Pellet stoves need 120V and produce a fair load when starting. It is a low load when running - just the blower fan and pellet feed auger. Yes they have gravity feed pellet units.
Waste oil burners need a blower and combustion chamber.
You could run the exhaust through a section of finned pipe from a water baceboard heater to recover the heat inside before the exhaust goes out side
I'm in a 10x14 shed with a big buddy heater and it works great.
Got a Chinese diesel heater in basement ran exhaust through a 1 inch emt pipe along bottom wall 10ft and up 7ft vented through cinder block to capture exhaust heat
No issues with leaks or fumes exhaust pipe radiates like a baseboard heater
WARNING: I bought this Vevor unit but half the winter later it failed with the burner fouled and blowing smoke. Upon examination it turned out it was assembled wrong. The pressure fuel tube was coiled to facilitate easy assembly and the air bubble trapped in there caused the pulsations to become neutralized. This missing pulsation caused the fuel atomizer screen to fail atomizing and burning large particles gradually caused carboning up. I had to take apart the burner and totally clean it out. IF YOU GET A GOOD BURN NOW you can avoid this laborious cleaning, because a good hot burn will clean out the carbon. You would need to take the box apart and make sure the pressure side tube is a straight run upward into the burner in order to purge any air bubbles. After that it's a good heater.
What I fear about Chinese price point construction. The industry feels that if you get a bad one, you just buy another because the price is right.
a minisplit in a woodshop situation would create a higher maintenance issue due to your afore mentioned issue with dust... as a woodworker, that's something I considered as well. I installed a pellet stove and am impressed with the ease of use, less effort (read as time spent) in fuel acquisition, thermostatic control and elimination of mess involved with wood heat. I'm willing to forego the A/C for the limited seasonal use in favor of the benefit of cold season temperature control. Humidity has a lot more to do with excess environment heat, so will opt for a dehumidifier rather than an A/C unit
Did you try a sawdust stove? Woodworker/shop means unlimited low cost near free fuel no electricity optional low speed fan if beneficial with 10 hours burn/heating.
I use a central heat unit with a thermostat. Works great! It also has a cooling mode for hot weather days. Amazing technology!
id recommend buying some clear plastic sheeting and putting that over all 4 walls to make yourself a air sealed bubble, the insulation will be able to breathe just fine but that air seal will make such a difference.
Sounds like a DIY left out house wrap or foil layer etc... the science must be followed if you wish best insulation value for the money...
The walls do need to breath some or you get condensation and wet insulation. Cheap Tyvek clone house wrap will seal up good but still allow some breathing.
I have Tyvek cloned wrap with R35 in attic, R21 in walls and a floor is tiled over plywood over 2x4 laid flat with R9.6 worth of Polyisocyanate insulation.
I just bought one of the Vevor 8kw heaters to install in my 725 sq/ft garage.
I have a MrCool DIY two ton heat pump it was 1325 on sale when I bought it I don't want it to happen but it could quit working tomorrow and I would feel like it doesn't owe me a damn thing. Plus it's clean heat no fumes no soot no dust no condensation.
You are exactly right. Been there done that. My prices and figures are almost the exactly same as yours. I have never used one of the diesel heaters but have been thinking about it. I have a farm tax permit and can get farm diesel too. As far as cooling I do have some experience with the window inverter units. I used them this last summer and shut my central unit off. I saved a little over $100 a month and stayed just as comfortable with two units running. They are super quite. Cost less than $400 each. I am in a hot humid climate and highly recommend them.
I love my little Chinese diesel heater, it puts out most excellent heat. I ducted mine with 3” 26 gauge, and now have 4 outlets.
9:07; we had non vented p. stoves like this one in our house. after going through sinus infections, upper respiratory problems, headaches & dizziness, i found that even if you vent for carbon monoxide, the combustion creates other non vented gases; sulphur dioxide & nitrogen dioxide. those were the problem. & after removing the heaters, our collective health returned. the other caution is that these gases alter the color of anything they land on...
I agree. I think they are good for emergencies but not for constant use. 👍
If you have enough moving air then anything can be ventilated, just gotta make sure your doing so up high and down low as gasses have different density's
The best way to go is an outdoor wood heated boiler. They are quite expensive, but can be home built reasonably priced. Run insulated tubing into the building to heat exchangers in corners, it shouldn't take up too much space.
I've been in HVAC for 40 yrs. I don't like mini splits at all, they have a tendency to leak at the fittings in cold climates plus all electric. Just get a window unit for cooling. Check out rinnai heaters easy installation easy propane conversion, they vent outside through the wall (3in pipe) and take up very little room. They come in various btu sizes.
What a good brand for a full home HVAC system in your opinion? Looking into a new one for the house 🙂
@@OUTDOORS55 if you're going to install yourself. Goodman, whirlpool. Unfortunately if you want a carrier or Bryant and there's a few others they're all Dealer represented. In other words the general public can't purchase them. The latter two I mentioned are good but expensive.
If you use a heat exchanger on the exhaust, you can salvage a ton of that lost heat.
Yup there are some good videos about just that it's pretty cool people are making water heaters with the exhaust heat also
This is the route I'm going with my shop/shed, I do have solar that is permanent and extension cord to the house. GREAT video's.
Finishing the walls with drywall will almost make the same improvement as insulation and might be hlf of the heating bill. If You use plywood Youll have to seal the edges with putty and drywall tape or it wont do much good
Was wondering about that. Part of my basement level is above ground. The contractor who built it insulated it but didn’t put up drywall. I put up freakin peg board on the outside wall where it wasn’t blocked by stuff, and it actually raised the temperature by a couple of degrees. Made me think there is a small hole and the pegboard pushed the insulation snug. Drywall has got to make a big difference, right?
Thanks! Seen many videos of the "Chinese heater" used by campers for tents and RVs and always wondered if one could work well in a workshop environment. My woodshop isn't used everyday, so for 25 years I heated with a small wood stove, installed to code, since I had wood scrap to burn and free access to burning logs. Unfortunately, my home insurance provider threatened to cancel my insurance unless the stove was removed, even though it meets all local codes. I checked with other insurance providers and all either refused to insure my home and shop, or they wanted an additional $1,500 per year of insurance premiums. I was forced to replace my wood stove with a propane system.
You can use a long exhaust in the shop to get the hot exhaust on the room before it goes out through heat exchange. You can also use waste oil in that and it is surprising how clean it is
Using waste engine oil always carbons up the mesh ring inside the primary combustor chamber. It shortens the service life dramatically. The long exhaust is a defo good mod and improves the heating efficiency by a big margin.
Greetings! A very good video, most informative! I also have purchased a heater like yours, 8KW. It has not been installed yet. Now the point: like you, I do not like to "throw away" BTUs, and so I am planning to route my exhause gasses through a 60's model Volkswagen Exhaust derived heated air. Such a heat exchanger is already engineered to harvest heat energy from Exhaust Gasses, and works very well. Good luck, Ciao!
i put a Rinnai natural gas direct vent in my basement. i love it. was not cheap or easy though(poured concrete foundation, brick veneer walls, heater unit 7-8' below the final exhaust exit).
I'm in a warm climate, I do wonder how many folk in very cold (compared to here) have small workshops with a coupla feet of dirt against the walls & on the roof to help retain the heat?
Ahhh that sounds like an evil doers bunker but thinking along the lines of a roots cellar. Seriously cost prohibitive I guess but making the heat must be one thing, but not losing through window glass & even closed doors is one thing but also insulated walls & roof.
How much is too much insulation? Maybe there isn't such a thing when you have snow or or long very hot days.
You're providing greta food for thought, great work
I prefer wood my self, but, I'm off grid 40 miles to the closet town and half of that is bumpy dirt roads
Yes the lp also causes yellowing on walls an everything to I use them an you're 100 percent right
Awesome video. I definitely need a similar heat source for my shop. Even before I upgrade from zero insulation to well insulated. Thanks.
Have you considered making a gasifier to run a generator that could run the shop ( or running the syn gas through a compressor and into a large tank similar to propane storage. It isn't near as efficient but it's possibly free, especially if you want to add a few extra steps you could even burn house trash in the thing ) ; and installing adjustable heat sink from the gasifier to heat the shop or make an insulated surround with a vent and a fan and attach a thermostat device. One of the biproducts/condensates of the gas is diesel. They are simple to build with plenty of plans available. FEMA republished gasifier plans not too long ago, but they are basically the same ones from the 40s. They are perfectly legal. And since we seem to be very near nuclear war it makes sense
I have seen them but dont have the time currently to fiddle with that. Would be an interesting project for sure👍
I have a big problem with moisture in the air with my heater. I am in Western Michigan and the cold here is crazy. I have been trying to figure a way to remove the moisture in the air. I have a propane heater with a 100 pound tank behind the workshop. It works the best to keep it warm.
Hi Michiganer, I'm just east of GR.
You need something vented, when you burn off the oxygen in the combustion process, you are left with the moisture. In a vented system you won't have that problem, but you will loose a little heat.
@@brettblack7049 Thanks, I am near Ludington by the way.
@@timm2020 Shoot, that's northern West Michigan lol.
I miss going up that way, used to go up that way a lot, now I don't get north much at all. Sometimes just south of you in the silver lake area at a buddies cottage on the north side of the dunes right off lake mi. There's actually a few videos on my channel taking down some good sized white pines up there last spring. He wants me to head up there again this yr to drop one more that's even larger, it was struck by lightening.
I've seen many of those propane heaters being used inside tighter homes or homes with older windows, you see the moisture on the windows and the walls after running them for a short time, a vented unit will take care of that problem. I heat nearly 100% with a wood stove, the rest is with a pellet stove just to help on the real cold days, or when I'm going to be out for a few days.
Have a great weekend :).
Modern heat pumps are amazingly efficient. With Coefficients of Performance (CoP) from 2.5 to 5. So if you had a CoP of 3.5 you could put 1000 watts in and get 3500 watts of heat out. It's much more efficient to move heat than to make heat. Plus a heat pump can be run in cooling mode in the summer. Using your numbers, a CoP 3.5 heat pump would cost you $0.04 per 3412btuhr
Yes but the cost saving would still take 10+ years to break even due to the higher initial price. Just in time for the warranty to run out.
Give a try to infrared stoves but you need the big powerful models for big rooms, they are cost effective and the heat is super comfortable (very different from conventional heaters).
Off course take proper safeties for fire risks, fire prevention.
Infrared will not heat 100% of the space but if you are inside the heat cone they are very pleasant also for breathing (no combustion or heavy air).
If temerature drops down too much, probably infrared alone are not enough but they can work with classic heaters simultaneously.
If the area is insulated good enuf then those will certainly end up heating the whole area, just under the cone like you mentioned will be much warmer, but yes they do a good job for sure
Excellent job. Good info, and well presented. Tad lengthy watch with a lower entertainment value. Overall well worth my time. Thanks!
Build an brick, cinder block (MBU), or rock alcove, vestibule, doghouse, etc. for a woodstove. THEY ROCK!
20:00 It is important to note, the direct(unvented) propane heater vents the products of combustion directly into the living space. (carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, and steam/water, and small amounts of other such yuck) If the moisture/humidity doesn't vent to outside with the natural air exchanges, it may condense (if it reaches the dewpoint) to some midpoint in the insulation (nondecomposing fiberglass) or some midpoint in the wooden structure. If you had some kind of vapor barrier (like 1 to 5 mil plastic) stapled to the inside of the studs near the insulation would prevent (or slow) the passage of condensible moisture through that barrier into the structure of your walls/ceiling.
Hey, Alex, "Thank You!" for another great video.
Just be aware, we may not be able to buy fuel in the near future.
I want a wood heater/stove for 'emergency' use.
If I can scrounge up the bucks I'm thinking 'cylinder stove' but I'd rather buy used used.
Have a GREAT day, Neighbor!
Ha! Finally a diesel heater video using a 120V to 12V converter (20A). Trying to power off a battery or battery charger is a bit of a fight because of the startup surge current (~12A).
Hopefully heat pumps can improve both in cost effectiveness and quality within the next decade or so. I enjoyed Matthias Wandel's recent minisplit video where he compared it to gas heating for his house -- definitely a different use case, but similar climate I believe. Right now I see the main advantage as being two systems in one, being able to air condition an area as well (or perhaps better) than heating them, perhaps making them more ideal for living spaces than working ones.
They just have some ground to make up to be a good replacement for these dead simple heaters that are cheap both to purchase and fuel.
I saw his video 👍
I think the bigger issue is being able to Insulate properly, if an area is well insulated then it retains the heat from say a heat pump better meaning it doesn't have to work nearly as hard to raise the temp of the area it's trying to do just that in
Heat pumps work good until the outdoor temps get to the 20's or the weather creates ice conditions. They're nowhere near on par with fossil fuels. If you're trying to maintain a 50 degree shop, a heat pump will likely do good for that. If you're try to get to 65-70 ro be in the shop, you'll likely want a fossil fuel item to get you up there and then let the heat pump maintain. In the HVAC industry we call these dual fuel systems.
@DIY Chad 726 insulation plays a huge role on the building envelope. But in the end, we're trying to heat the refrigerant up with the outdoor air. At a certain point we've crossed a line of diminishing returns. We refer to this as "balance point" in the industry. The point where the heat loss is equal to or greater than the heat input from the heat pump. At this time we will switch from the heat pump to a fossil fuel burning piece of equipment.
The most efficient and best heat pump you could easily use year round would be a geo thermal system. These are very expensive to install which creates long periods of time to see the pay back on investment. However once installed, it's easy to see on the monthly utility bills just how much money we spend on conditioning the air in our spaces. A monthly bill reduction of half is very common.
I highly recommend a large ceiling fan as well to push the heat down.
As an observer with no professional expertise, I'm thinking the big electric heater and the little one may be closer to a wash in running cost. The big one would get you warm faster but maintaining happy temp should be equal. Give or take. I know you were baiting your ultimate solution but felt obliged to make the point. Huzzah!
Thanks for the good info as always! You should also check out a good battery operated heated vest game changer!
I have a diesel heater in my shop too. The worst part of the propane heaters is they introduce a lot of moisture into the air. As for the Chinese diesle heater the 8kw one is a lie they are rebadged 5kw.
Yes they don't consume enough fuel to be 8kw👍 I dont have problems with any moisture. We have super dry air here in the wintertime so the added moisture is appreciated. Its the smell that gets me due to the open flame 👍🙂
@@OUTDOORS55 ahh well here in Ireland the air is never dry 😂 I have the heater setup outside pulling in fresh air so it’s not as efficient as it could be but help keep it fresher feeling as the space is pretty well sealed. Would recommend looking at some option to add a car battery to your heater, if you have a power outage when it’s running it will shut off and can then overheat the electronics as it’s doesn’t do the cool down cycle. The power draw once up to heat is only about 30-60w so it doesn’t need to be a big battery.
Hi Alex, I really enjoy your no-nonsense, information rich videos, thanks! And you are occasionally amusing! It is a common misconception that it is more efficient to keep a space heated 24/7 rather than only when it is occupied. Heat loss is directly proportional to temperature difference. If the heat is turned off, the space will cool due to heat loss. The rate of heat loss will decrease as the space cools. When the space is reheated, the amount of heat lost has to be replaced in order to bring the space back to temperature. Due to the decreased temperature, less heat has been has been lost than if the space had been maintained at the higher temperature. It is more efficient to allow the space to cool when not using it.
Heating and cooling causes condensation... which rusts tools and equipment. Best to avoid large temperature swings. Plus, once it's really cold inside it takes a LONG time to warm up... and the faster you warm it up, the more condensation is produced.
It costs huge amounts of money and energy to keep heating frozen air and all the frozen items in the room from no heat..keeping the temperature above freezing at all times will be cheaper than heating..freezing..heating..freezing..
Now let's talk about controlling andctreating the mold and mildew caused by the excessive moisture generated from constant hot cold cycles..oh yeah, what about the constant maintenance and replacement of tools and electrical equipment damaged from all that moisture..time to re-evaluate your "facts".
I think there is a $2000 tax credit now for a few years on pellet stoves. Depending on your tax situation , that may equate to a free pellet stove other than the cost of the fuel. They also come with thermostats. I heat my home with wood below 35 degrees and heat pump above that here in the moderate climate of Charlotte NC. ( the wood unit came with the home and provides good exercise for me, I get the wood for just my labor ) Many things to consider and you covered a lot with various fuels.
Popular in the van life community. Good to see there is a mobile version.
Thanks for excellent and accurate info, especially the comparative fuel/BTU breakdown!
Find an old castiron radiator and run the exhaust through it, then outside reclaim the heat from the exhaust. P.S. set a fan behind the radiator.
Is it possible to produce a video explaining BTU's ?
You always explain things in a way thats easy to understand.
Thanks
A btu is the energy required to raise one pound of water one degree Fahrenheit.
Great video! The problem for me with diesel is that it smells like a diesel truck is running right outside all day. That may or may not bother you. Propane puts off a lot of water vapor with can cause humidity problems overnight.
You don't smell this heater at all unless you spill the fuel everywhere 👍
Did you consider osb instead of drywall for walls? OSB is much nicer to work with and way nicer for putting up shelving, hanging tools on wall etc. Has about same insulation value as drywall.
Depending on thickness I'd say the osb actually would insulate better
Yeah, id like to but technically its not code here and id rather have the greater fire resistance with drywall. I dont pland on attaching anything to the walls anyway. Everything will be on wheels an mobile so i can move thong around.🙂👍
osb stinks. it outgasses VOCs for a long time...i hate that smell.
OSB makes a great fire accelerant. the 🤔
Just ran across this video, thanks! I'm in a pretty similar situation. We inherited a house with a detached 2 car garage that I'm making into my workshop. It's far enough north that I need heat to be able to use it during the fall and winter. Incidentally I just made my first knife recently, so thanks for your instructional videos! Since there is already a chimney setup I plan on putting in a wood stove for days I'll be working all day, but I think I'll look at the diesel option as well.
When I lived in the bush of Alaska it cost us 30 cents a gal for the # 2;the heating oil we bought by ,,55 gal barells. My Kenmore pot burner would burn a gal a day keeping my cabin at bout 36 deg.( Not freezing) while I was gone running my trap lines. It's just sitting out in the weather cause it would be cheaper to just burn cash. And Vevor is a pretty shabby product line. They make a lot of types of heaters. I live in the mountains waaay off grid and burn a big barell heater in my tractor shop. ( Wood burner,) Cost is labor and saw fuel n oil.
Did a trick and uped it to 90 ish %. The exhaust steams when it comes out. Also if you upgraded to a vented propane to get rid of the spell and dust issue it would have exhaust losses also
The most powerful heater I’ve ever seen was intended for using outdoor or in a building that has no heat and it was when I worked at a steel mill. They ended up getting these heaters that they had were electric and you could plug it up to a I can’t remember the actual voltage but I think it was 210? Anyway you could set it 30 to z50 feet from you and turn it on and it would blow hot air that whole length and warm up everything in that stretch.
And your not talking about one of those torpedo heater that uses kerosene or diesel to burn to create the heat then a big fan (reason for plugging it in) to blow said heat...... Those are the most powerful I've ever seen
@@diychad7268 Guarantee that's what he's talking about. I bet a lot of folks think those are electric only.
You can put the diesel heater exhaust through a radiator so you can generate heat if you keep it inside. I'm in the process of insulating and heating my garage. I feel like I just saw the future of me seeing how you tried different things. Thanks for the video!
Ive head of that but see some people have problems if not done correctly. There's plenty of videos on RUclips about these things. Im sure someone has one who figured it out👍
@@OUTDOORS55 yep! I've been watching so many videos on heating a garage. I have a detached garage that I am working on. I have the walls insulated but need to work on the ceiling. It's super leaky so I'm trying to think of a way to go overboard. Right now it seems a pellet stove but that's a lot of work haha.
My 30x40 Shop will have a Heated Floor from My OWB to maintain a low temp, Then a Wall mounted fan Coil unit the Quickly bring the temp up.
Thanks .
Mike M.
A good combo for the elephant heater for a lot of people would be a timer switch/plug. Just set the on/off cycle and plug n forget lol. But that might only be good if you are a very routine person
It has a thermostat on it🙂
It's got a timer built in. You can't easily add one, because when you turn it off it needs to go through a cool down cycle. Without it stuff can melt.
@@andrioszWell yeah I know that. I'm talking about a timer like what a lot of retail shops or even plant growers use to regulate cycles. I personally would set it up like this if I was going to be in my shop the same time every day, you wouldn't need to worry about going out there to start the heating cycle it would be doing it already. But I'm only bring it up cause he turns the whole system off over night.
@@andriosz I saw a video where a guy did add a thermostat to his diesel heater thru the keychain remote and was able to get it to go thru it's shut down cycle each time. Very interestingly done and effective!
I was also thinking of running my diesel heater off mikwaukee batteries to heat a tent or somthing
You'll definitely want to check the voltage first. From what ive seen 12-14v is where they want to run.👍
@@OUTDOORS55 yeah converters are readily available I already got a working example
A mini split is awesome for a garage...my shop is a similar detached two car garage with basic insulation....in Iowa. I have a Pioneer brand, ordered from Home Depot for about $800 that is 12kbtu unit rated to -13F and it easily heats the shop. Bonus... it cools the shop too, keeping a nice climate controlled space with no fuss. When the temps are below zero, of course the heat output drops off pretty quick but does still put out some heat even at the rated -13. If we get a cold snap.. -20f for a couple days or so... then I run a diesel heater or electric if I want to work in the shop. If I ever build a new shop, I would probably get a -22F rated unit and set up a diesel heater too as a backup. You can install a mini split diy... but you do need a few specialty tools... vac pump, gauges, flare tool... couple hundred bucks on the cheap end. The best part... is that a mini split is the cheapest to run by a long shot.
@@teamfusionracing that would be nice but im afraid it due to the cost of the unit it would never break even. 🙂
@@OUTDOORS55 It would take a few years to break even for sure...depending on how long your winter season is. When I put in mine, it was replacing a 220 electric heater that would cost $3-4 a day through the winter and the mini split is only $1 a day so for me it should take around 3 years to break even for the $1000 install
So, for that diesel heater, could you increase efficiency if you put the exhaust, instead of outside directly, but going through a heat exchanger that sits on the wall with a fan behind it, blowing the exhaust HEAT (not fumes) back into the garage and the output of the exchanger vents then outside? (I'm not sure if I explained that correctly).
If a wood stove is properly installed it's perfectly safe . Ive heated 24/7 for 47 years . However insurance companies frown on them in garages and it's been my experience anyway they won't insure garage or out buildings. You may find different. But as far as safe , I'd argue properly done a stove and chimney maintained is as safe as any heating source mentioned and probally safer than some .
Thank you for this video. I especially liked the ending when you talked about the mini split. Thank you for your opinion on that
you can heat how you like, but maybe consider a hot air oil furnace 80k btu, i have one in my garage and works awsome. cheap to run, and one in my house, running both 24/7 i go through roughly 80 gal per mnth. now the house is 80x24 and the garage is 24x24. wood stoves are good for back up but toss the ventless heater for shure, no money is worth getting sick.
Question , could you put the unit outside , run the fresh air intake thru the wall so its getting warmer air than outside and also run the heating tube thru the wall ?
Good ideas and job dude 👍👍. You’re right the propane has a smell . Like these choices and appreciate you sharing these options especially the elephant heater . Didn’t even know it existed . I’m in Ohio and have seen many different redneck heating systems from old converted dryers to dbl stacked barrels or wood burners 😊. Whatever works best for the person is the way to go and getting the cheapest heat is paramount around here .
Not sure on how the cost compares, but perhaps an Outdoor Wood Furnace like those from Central Boiler or similar.
Um thank you for this!!! I just spent the last month insulating my garage… this is awesome
Dude you need a rocket mass heater, look it up. I burn pine cones in mine because they are easier to collect with and no sawing needed. Twigs and branches that I can snap with my hands.
Your electricity is incredibly cheap compared to ours in Massachusetts---just went up to more than 48 cents per kW-hr! We just got a "high-efficiency" mini-split, and it's the best there is (Mitsubishi), for just one large room. It's a great air conditioner, but running it for heat in the winter is very expensive, even with the oil heat still running. Our electricity bill was nearly $800 last month! So, the plan around here seems to be to get everyone to switch to these heat pumps and electric cars, then jack up the electricity rates so that we all freeze to death and can't go anywhere. Welcome to the Green New Deal!
Yeah I agree. Ours is very cheap but still expensive compared to alternatives. No way would I switch to all electrical. At least not until solor becoms a more reasonable option.
Wow, they are draining you dry!
Good grief.
I bet he forgot to electric distribution charges which run around .17cents a kilowatt… so .15 + .17=0.32 per kilowatt for electric…. Also natural gas … approx same distribution cost structure… diesel or propane likely has the lowest operational cost….
When i'm forging, my coal forge is the cheapest heater i can have. It gives off free heat when i'm making a blade!
I used to drive trucks to Canada from Texas and Arizona etc. But when I got "up north" like in Montana and Alberta etc, in the dead of winter they only sell Number ONE Diesel. So, since you are "up north" do you run Number ONE or Number Two?? Or does it make any difference. If you run OFF ROAD diesel you are probably running Number 2, but I would like to know for sure. In Texas all Diesel is Number Two years round, off road and Road use.
Off road is number two. I run the red dyed number 2, off raod👍 Its not much cheaper but every bit helps🙂
@@OUTDOORS55 In Texas the off road fuel is about 40 Cents per gallon cheaper than Highway fuel with the Road Use Tax on it. That heater probably doesn't care if it is number one or two. ONE is low grade kerosene is what I have always heard, less likely to gel in lower temps. Gelling shouldn't be a problem in your shop, you could turn on one of your other heaters and they would warm it up so that the gelling would dissipate, or thaw or whatever you call it. Nice Video!!!
Great info. I’m just wondering approximately where you’re located. I am near Lansing Michigan. Just wondered what type of temperatures you’re dealing with. I’ve been considering insulating my garage also.
Southern Pennsylvania 👍
I'm just east of GR, in our neck of the woods insulation just keeps giving you a better and better return.
Can you run your exhaust through a flexible duct, through your shop on its way to outside, and with maybe a low speed fan to blow heat off the duct ?
This is the exact heater in my 20x24 garage, if its in the high 30s it will keep my garage at 69F with no problem.
So How much is Fuel oil that people use in their furnaces which would need a large oil tank. How about kerosine ?
Glad you're back. Thanks for the video.
Thanks for watching!
Biomass reactor heaters are cool as shit... Run black water line and coil it on the ground then dump your compost on top. Temps at the core will be around 180.. some farmers heat their barns and green house all winter long
In Europe most farm house "People living areas" are on the 2 and 3rd floor. The first floor are all the cattle or sheep sleep. Their body heat does help warm the floors.
I hate to tell you this, but 1 inch of that Styrofoam insulation is equal to 18 inches of fiberglass batting, but you do have to use some sort of jiffy foam to fill the gaps with the fiberglass you only have the width of the 2 x 4 studs even if you have two by sixes it’s not enough the spray insulation foam is expensive but is essentially turns your walls into an igloo cooler then you have the issue of making sure you have proper ventilation because you can heat some thing with Styrofoam all the way around with very little heat. I have a shop that is 80 x 80 with a 14 foot ceiling spray foam insulation and with a 50,000 BTU torpedo heater. It literally will run you out of there but because of the ventilation issue , it will literally burn up all the oxygen and you will get sick so I put a smaller propane heater and it does the trick again the cost is in the initial insulating of your shop . and in the summertime in his big is a sharp as I have I have only two 5000 BTU window units that cools the entire thing the trick is do you want to pay me now or pay me later if you pay for the good insulation you won’t be paying the high fuel bills, but the initial cost is quite high. Sorry about the punctuation. This is a microphone. I am not typing it. And it might seem like it runs altogether. Either way you get the point you have a great video but it’s like anything if you do it correctly the first time you don’t have to do it again . I am looking into pellet stoves. They are economically a better deal. Thanks again for the video and for your time..
You can heat that space with a propane bottle stove. I installed mine on a stand so it takes no floor space. At that size(20lb propane bottle), I burn in 1-2 hour increments. That is to say you have to add wood about every hour to keep it HOT or if you're slow burning, you can go 2+ hours per 10lb of wood, give or take. I have a couple 40 ft trailers welded together and I've put R10 foam and sheeting over the exterior, so I'm about as insulated as you look to be. Probably less due to the fact the trailers are on blocks and cold air get's under and the floor isn't insulated at all.
We have become addicted to wood heat, as we live in the woods, which need upkeep. The forest needs tending, our bodies need exorcize (ridding ourselves of lazy demon's ha! )our cabin needs heat.
We have baseboard hot water for back up due to circumstances. (lazy demon possession) THANKS for your video ... I've been investigating diesel heaters for a landscaper trailer workshop ... like you, our tiny camp wood stove does have safety and convenience concerns for unoccupied small areas
Nice and blue flame, you won't be making much CO at all... (if any)
But the headaches could come from one of two things:
a high CO2 concentration (after all, a perfectly combusted propane exhaust is CO2 and water, reducing the relative amount of oxygen you breathe, _and_ it's using the oxygen in your workshop to burn, so the effect is doubled);
or like you indicate the "smell", which are sulfuric oxides because for safety reasons they mix H2S in the propane (propane is odorless, so they mix in a volatile unpleasant smell in order to be able to detect leaks quickly, and usually they pick H2S because it's cheap and most people really dislike rotten eggs). Obviously the H2S passes through the flames and gets burned too, and those products are bound to give you headaches and possibly burning eyes too.
and yes, I know it's equipped with a low oxygen shut-off. Those are usually set to 18% (flames die below 14%, people die below 16%, so you won't die which is fair enough for the legal department), but the headaches will occur as soon as you drop below 19.5% (some people are more sensitive to it than others, also depending on altitude, and other factors)
mini-split in my shop, wont go back. However, I have wood stove for backup.
I have a 110m² badly insulated workshop. I keep it at 18°C 24/7 with a 14KW pellet stove. Clean, eco friendly, wifi connected,... and cheaper than anything else.
Nice! They do work great 👍
Except a mini-split electric heat pump can PUMP 12,000 BTU per hour for $0.15 of electricity would be more economical...
Bottom line:
1) insulate the space i.e. R35,
2) heat with low cost fuel be it cordwood, pellet, coal, waste oil, electricity, diesel etc.
3) use low cost heat device be it fireplace, stove, barrel, etc.
4) Upgrade to a) low cost device, b) low cost fuel... c) DIY v box store... d) Return on Investment... how long?
Video makes good points. $$$
Monthly cheap DIY is key!
Good luck!
@@douglaspohl1827 Maybe where you live that might be the case. Diy insulation would cost me €12.000, a unit to heat the place, €7.500. I have 285m³ to heat due to high ceilings. Electricity in Belgium is more expensive than organs. The pellet stove was €3000 installed and the pellets are €800/year with 100% tax return.
@IP Knives Imperfectly Perfect Knives Easy decision $800/year with 100% fuel tax credit.
Love my 15 year old pellet stove too. Working on another heating stove since Douglas fir trees need major $$$$ trim/removal so going to build a forced-air cordwood heater with alt natural convention design should power go out or good old fireplace to get by outage.
Do the math... numbers do not lie...
Thanks.
Nice comparison. Some remarks though. 1) A 6kW electric heater will not double the cost on electricity w.r.t. a 3kW heater as it will run less hours to get and hold the shop on 60 degrees. 2) The blue flames in the propane heater converter the carbon-hydrogen gas into CO2 and H2O, so besides carbon dioxide there will be a lot of water vapour blasted into the shop which will go into your wall isolation.
Thats not what i said. Im compairing cost per btu per hour. Thats where the info at the end comes into play. The water vapor is not problem in our climate and is welcome addition with our super dry winters.
Another problem with unvented gas heaters is the excess humidity added to the shop.
I tried a Buddy heater in my teardrop camper and found that they don’t work at higher altitudes. So when camping at 8500 feet then its oxygen sensor would kickoff. The other downside is that it made a lot of moisture in the air, so we had more condensation on windows, walls, etc.
I put in a diesel parking heater and it runs at any altitude that I camp at. We’d only consume about a half gallon of fuel over night, and its power draw on the battery is impressively light. Once started, it draws .85 amp or about 10 watts to run the pump and fan. It’s also very dry, which dries out everything, but it can be too dry and give headaches.
Oddly, I’ve heard of electric vehicle owners installing a diesel heater in the trunk. Apparently, the EVs heat the car cabin using resistive heat which draws down the battery and thus reduces range. A diesel parking heater uses way less power from the battery and thus preserves the range. So if you see a Tesla filling up at the diesel pump, now you know.
if you cover them walls with plastic it will make a world of difference, even more if you use some radiant barrier. insulation is only as good as the drafts.
Very interesting video - enjoyed the math !
I heat with wood pellets in a rocket stove. A 40 lb bag of wood pellets is roughly $6 and contains 320,000 btus (at the advertised rate of 8000 btu/lb). Given that, 3412 btus costs aprox 6.4 cents. The rocket stove is extremely efficient, my exhaust temps are shockingly low when she's running full blast. I'm going to guess it's 85% efficient, which takes the cost from 6.4 up to 7.5 cents per 3412 btus. Buying wood pellets in bulk saves about 20 %, roughly $5 per 40 lb bag.
What do you have on the window panes?
I’m assuming you don’t have access to natural gas, which is a shame because it’s about half the price of propane. I use gas and it’s cheap. Plus the part of an endless tap. No tank refills to deal with.
No natural gas here. I had it at my old house but it was about the same price as LP with all the added fees. 🙂
Thank you for sharing this. I'm currently looking for an efficient way to heat my shop. It's the same size as yours but I have taller walls with no attic. What do you use to keep it 45° overnight? God bless!
Nothing, I turn off everything at night and the thermal mass inside the building keeps everything about 45 over night👍
@@OUTDOORS55 awesome thanks
@@OUTDOORS55 Nice Vid. Yep, the first fire to heat up the Thermal Mass is what costs a lot. Once the mass is warm it takes less to get back up to room temp. Unfortunately, the reverse in summertime cooling.