CPTSD can cause it too but also causes Narcissistic Personality Disorder and some of Us who have CPTSD from Childhood Abuse git lucky and ended up being Super Empaths. As a Super Empath we are very Quick too pick up on Narcissistic but are also prone to being played y The, because we have poor Emotional Regualtors.
It’s painful to watch and experience when narcissistic people behave so immaturely and they can’t see it . They have given up on the most precious and beautiful things in life such as love, empathy, joy, kindness, reciprocity, connection, integrity, intimacy, authenticity and truth. Thank you 🙏 dr Carter ❤ God bless you ❤
My late sister Sharon's greatest quote: "Things of great beauty are full of corruption." Perhaps that is because people expect too much out only just things.
@susanbennetttellstales7998 hahaha...yes I do! And with narcissistic & co-dependant parents, in-laws and siblings...there's not a lot of adults in the room but myself.
Whatever age it is, it is likely not an age where they can have the insight of what a true and healthy marriage means. Yet, some have made lifetime "commitments" and here we are.
My husband has just recently started throwing things at me. So far, it’s pillows, blankets, & the like, but he whips them so forcefully, they actually hurt. This is always accompanied by the vile name calling. He cusses at me like a drunken sailor. He’s always used being Irish as his excuse & I bought that for years, but now, it’s escalated to a whole new level. I actually started looking at condos in the area today. If you have time, please keep me in your prayers. Thank you!
@kathleenosullivan8601 Oh my gosh, I certainly will. Mine went from throwing things to punching holes in walls then onto pushing me. It seems to escalate as they age. Be safe always!
Breaking your things, using or destroying your things, hollering, poking, punching walls or cupboards, breaking them, denting the steering wheel by punching it, the radio, cornering out, screaming in your face, throwing you off balance, whipping you with a clothing item, pillow, smacking, kicking, tossing furniture. All signs that it will probably escalate. They say your gut is the best indicator. People might not think of withholding nourishment or ability. To me I feel it's hard to pick an age but if you believe 7 to be the age of reason I would say maybe 7 or 8 they know and start using it as a learned tactic for purpose.
@@kathleenosullivan8601You are in danger. Contact a Center for abuse and a lawyer and make yourself safe. Don't just rely on the prayers of others rely on yourself to take action to protect yourself. If this person kills you it'll be too late.
When I first saw the tantrum in my ex, I gave him the benefit of the doubt, told him to 'stop acting like a 12y o'. A few years later my son turned 12, and was acting more matured than his dad! I wish I knew about this then, I wd hv gotten out sooner 😓
I have been learning more and more about narcissism and the more I learn the more I seem to realize how many people in my life seem to have these traits. When I feel like I am surrounded by them I wonder what am I supposed to do with these relationships now? Cognitive dissonance is real… I recognize and forget and then recognize the traits popping up again and again.
I have often wondered about this. Does a narcissist’s age of immaturity stay at the actual age they were abused, neglected, rejected, spoiled? Or does their age of immaturity begin when they realize as adults (or there close to adulthood) they’ve hit the jackpot on how to get people to do what they want them to do. And then, do all narcissists immature in reverse as a normal person would mature with age? It seems like the narcissists I’ve dealt with become more and more childish as they get older. Looking forward to this one, DrC!
They have a bunch of inner parts that for the most part have taken over. (In IFS, everyone has parts, but not everyone spends time taken over by a part, and not everyone spends as long stuck in one part). Each part is created when it is separated off, denied, rejected. Their actual self is on major lockdown. Look up the 8cs from Richard Schwartz, that is self energy. Their expression of those 8cs is severely limited, because other parts are for the most part running the show. So there is likely a 3yo, a 1yo, a 9yo, a 5yo, etc. from across their history. I believe the official text says up to age 7 but the hands on clinical cases say up to age 9, we are most susceptible to creating these parts within our psyche.
I don't know why it seems that definitely some outer force makes them a narcissist - perhaps they just are inclined that way from birth, as much as some people are born with congenital pain insensitivity or other qualities that most people don't have. In such cases at best, it's not that they were abused, but that the people around them didn't have enough training to be able to reduce the narcissistic inclination in them during childhood.
I've seen some like that. Thankfully. my husband did TRY to be an adult. But, emotionally, he was 10. I guess that's what makes mine a covert narcissist. Although I must say that even covert narcissists can be very overt at times.
Thank-you so much, Dr. Carter. I learned a lot today and your knowledge explains why I felt that my ex-husband acted like a child so often. I also love your new Unbound format. And I would like to share some positive news with you. As you know I divorced a malignant narcissist five months ago and after not being able to work for 33 years, I was offered a part-time job today working with children at our local YMCA. It's your podcasts that have helped me heal. I understand that'm going to be healing for the rest of my life. This is okay with me because this means I'll carry the knowledge of what I endured and hopefully i will continue to grow and mature as I continue to work towards being a better version of myself.
Gifted people also age "asynchronously". Intellect can be double their age but emotional can lag behind. That may complicate the situation with both gifted victims and gifted abusers.
I've met someone like this and God did he make a point of how intelligent he was. Went to gifted classes as child did well at university but was an absolutely controlling and critical ar..E with zero social skills or manners.
@TheMazinoz. Once, I went to see a play with a guy who had just finished his BA in chemistry. He embarrassed me greatly. He picked his nose while surrounded by people. He applauded as if he were a seal, slamming his hands together and making a sound louder than anyone else in the theater. He wasn't narcissistic, just socially retarded. He was about 30.
My partner's 33 y/o daughter targeted me right before Christmas. It was SO bad that my partner, HER FATHER, kicked her out of our home. While in the process of attempting to turn her father against me, she completely disregarded his MULTIPLE demands to leave our home while behaving like an immature adolescent in the presence of her impressionable, 7 y/o daughter. So, I began saying to my partner's narcissistic daughter: "You're behaving like a 12 y/o." With each tantrum this GROWN WOMAN threw, I went down in age to 10, 8. When I got to '8' I said to her 7 y/o dauhter that her and her mom are now about the same age. Then I continued to 5, then 4, and the narc daughter responded with: "4 years old... really??" She drew the line at 4. So, it appears that she's emotionally stuck at 5 years old, because 4 is too insulting and offensive to her.
Dr. Les....you are my own personal Yoda when it comes to healthy insight. I'm divorcing a brutal, childish narcassistic, chronical age of 55. EQ age approx 15. Your ability to break down the concepts of a narcassist's personality & behavior is easy to understand. I always feel better after listening to you. Thanks a bunch!
My workplace has utterly collapsed due to narcissism run amok. No knows what they are doing and everyone is running around like chickens, firing people left and right, blaming everyone for everything. Stay safe out there folks!
I have been following the comments with fun suspense. I am seeing different numbers and speculating that what is in common (tell me if I am wrong) is we are talking about someone who can martial enough knowledge to cause mayhem, but does not enough maturity to do better.
I've been thinking for years that the max emotional age is 14, but when told "no", the emotional age drops to about a two year having a tantrum. Slams doors like a teenage girl was he's upset. He's 59 y/o, 6 ft tall and has access to the bank accounts and credit cards. Scary.
My neighbours only associate with family members and they are all narcissistic. No sane person would have anything to do with them on an ongoing basis.
I know someone that has dishes for the purpose of throwing in her anger, temper tantrum. She had shown her temper tantrum to me in Walnarts a couple times. With calm words, I was backing away so others passing by won't think we're together. I eventually went "no contact" with her. Too much energy expended and was effecting my mental health.
My 61 year old brother has never had the responsibility of living on his own and paying rent, utilities etc. He lives with my mom in the house I bought for her and is trying to blackmail me to sign over my mom’s half of the house to him. I am the youngest and his little sister, I have financially and physically cared for our mom since I was 19. Now he’s turned our mom against me and went behind my back taking over as power of attorney. His mentality reminds me of a teenager, lack of empathy.
I finally cut ties with my MIL just after figuring out that she most likely was a vulnerable narcissist. She behaved exactly like an adolescent would, and still does. She cannot accept that anyone would dare tell her to leave them alone and mean it.
I'd go with 11-13 as an average. Puberty is a vital component in the mix during this age range. Have certainly experienced a few adult characters behaving like 12 year olds...
My 80 year-old mother face-planted on her bed and wailed when the conversation revealed that she'd done something dishonest. She bawled that something else was terribly sad. My father shooed everyone out because she was "upset". It was so slapstick. 🙄 She was never so blatant when she was younger.
Dr. C, my 81 year old wife has been mean, angry and contemptuous toward me for the past 40 years but equally kind and thoughtful toward EVERYONE else. While I've always been supportive and helpful, she justifies her anger on the basis that 'it's my fault her life hasn't turned out the way she expected'. This begs the question of why she expects being so negative is the route to a good life when, if she'd treated me well, we could have had a wonderful time together. Can you comment about her emotional age, given she can turn her anger and charm 'on' and 'off' to suit herself. Also, while her anger toward me seems real, is her kindness toward everyone else genuine or an act.
Oh, Amanda, I really do love 🥰 your kind of humor 😂. You are such a good comedian 🤭😍 Hope your surrounding is a bit peaceful these days 💫🕊Sending you lots of good wishes 💖🤗 P.S.: My daughter is coming back tonight from Vienna. We will see 😉
The people that left their cars were yelled at by fire officials to abandon them or they were going to die. This later blocked the road, and they bulldozed them. They weren't burned out from what I've gathered, although that wouldn't surprise me considering patterns from previous fires. The aftermath will be interesting. Im in the area for 30 years and these Santa Ana winds have never been the strong.
She was in the late thirties and giggled like a baby and started whining like a child that’s denied a cookie when I told her NO at her inviting herself to stay at my place.
If narcissists are emotionally immature, do they also have a limited consciousness, both self and general. What I mean is, are they capable of thinking at a certain level of abstraction or being deeply creative?
Don't discount EVERY childlike adult as a toxic person..Some are very sincere people who wouldn't harm a fly..But,yeah!Narcs are like petulant little assholes!
Wondering, if my father got stuck at age 14, when his last brother…an “oops” baby was born. Him, now being the baby of the family, he got lots of attention. As he grew up his love of music probably took center stage and it became too much for my father, who was a teenager, to handle. He married at 19…first kid born at 21…I came along 13 months later. 3 more kids joined the family in quick succession so lots of responsibility for 2 immature damaged people. Mother has narcissistic personality disorder & I feel he absorbed tendencies from her. All in all, the kids were doomed from birth. Thank you for your videos…..I’ve learned so much.
Is it only me who has noticed for a long time that people who grew up during Great Depression seem more diverse in their outlook on life and their being expressed value system beyond the superficial than in later generations? Maybe far different story behind closed doors today among all in the approved of thinking cap crowd.
Family narcissists feel free to ask for things but will not help when we ask them. They don't do anything that isn't their own idea. I stopped suggesting things for us to do because they never cooperate, as though I did something wrong by suggesting we do something together. Even when I have offered to help them with something they turn me down just because I asked, so I stopped offering to help.
My late husband was a bipolar alcoholic with narcissistic behavior. However he did go to therapy and AA for his issues. I learned in AlAnon that an alcoholic’s maturity growth stopped at the age they started drinking. Therefore when they quit drinking, their maturity level was still at the age that age. My husband started drinking when he was 15. Not sure if this is true for all of them.
I would be interested in knowing which elementary school grade is the one in which you might indicate this behavior? I subbed all school levels and enjoyed them all respectively and taught pre school and HeadStart. I always wanted to teach 4th grade. I don't know if it's still so, but this seemed like such a great stage.
When you have a malignant one, or a high intelligence one they have “cognitive empathy “. They study you and use it against you. They are also total perfectionists so since they manipulate the rules you are always committing infractions. And they are so superior. They are the 8 year old on the playground belittling you, Subtile and planned.
It seems that way to me as well. This is the "me" stage. They can't see outside of themselves yet. And they have a problem with higher reasoning. I'm betting on toddler with you!
The emotional age of most narcissists is 4 YEARS OLD. Smart enough to have some language skills and understanding of harmful behaviors but seriously lacking in future consequences for their actions. When all else fails, they can turn on the tears!
My own Father never became more developed than a stubborn and mischievous 5 year old little boy even though he is now 80+ My whole life has been a difficult struggle but now I have shielded myself from his idiotic opinions.
We have discontinued the weekly live feed so I can answer questions in this format instead. I'll post at least 2 Unbound segments per week, sometimes 3. I feel it allows me to unpack the questions a bit more fully with this new format. I really like responding to viewers' input.
Thank you, Dr C for responding. I really enjoy Unbound. It's nice to have a different format. It is more in-depth answers, and as always, you do a great job!!! 👍 Thank you for all that you do to keep educating us in creative ways!!! ♥️😊♥️
Dr. Carter, I have a Question: Are all immature people Narcissist? Thank you in advance. Also its nice seeing you relax... I wonder if Gus is on the sofa with you.🐶❤
Well, many of us already know your "general" answer from a past live chat 😁 That said... I'm very interested in your delving deeper, dr C . I was also wondering if different types (and degrees) of narcissism can imply different emotional ages. Meaning, if the worst types in the spectrum behave like a lower "age" than the "average narcissist" .
Very interesting topic and analysis. Dr Carter's estimate is that narcs' emotional age is around 9~14 years. This makes good sense. However the narcs I've had to cope with lacked any ability to value other people for the goodness within them. They could only see value in those people's social standing and utility. I would like to think that many children younger than nine can identify goodness in others. So I'm wondering if narcs' empathetic age is even lower, maybe at pre-school level.
Could this emotional immaturity be do in part to any of the abuses done to a narcissist at that age level? My husband is a narcissist. There is evidence of abuse in his childhood.
Hi Dr. C, Thank you so much for your insightful and helpful videos. I truly appreciate your work! I have two questions for you: How can you tell if your child is experiencing abuse from a narcissistic (step) parent, or if that parent is simply very old-fashioned and authoritarian in their approach, but reasonable enough in their demands? Is it possible for a narcissist to be highly responsible and reliable when it comes to daily chores or practical matters concerning the family, and still exhibit narcissistic behavior? Thank you (from Denmark) in advance for your time and insights!
Tech issues information. Is anyone ( accustomed regular commenters ) having tech problems in posting both their replies and/or new comments in their most frequented channels like this of dr C, *in the last few weeks and especially in the last few days?* -> Not occuring in all channels, though. These macrosystems are impossible to understand... Now I'll try to send this one as a new post because the majority of my replies to other commenters disappear instantly just after posting. *I'm so sorry for interrupted conversations...* Edit: in the last 24 hours I tried to post this comment at least 20 times... and only now it is permanently visible. other comments and replies in other videos of Dr C, I gave up sending posts after 3 or 4 times, in the last few days 🥴
Hey lishmah. It happens to me all the time too. I'm not sure why, but it is some sort of algorithm thing. Please keep posting...I really like your comments.
@SurvivingNarcissism Thank you very much dr C 💚 You are so kind to reassure my 10 year old "inner child" !!! ( I wasn't doing it enough indeed). Yes, some algorithm definitely. This glitch doesn't seem random at all. It seems "targeted". Meaning, targeted at regular commenters, at constant commenters in xyz channels. *Maybe youtube politics to promote some channels and slow down other ones?* Maybe. In which direction? Impossible to understand. [ I'm saying that because not all the channels have this glitch at the same time. However, it happens "all together" in the channels where a usual commenter has more good and closer "relationships" with other usual commenters, so to speak. In this case, I was like totally cutoff for about 24 hours from all my main channels. (sometimes it happens for more days or for 1-2 weeks in which I can only send very few posts) . In the meantime, the system was propounding new channels and new topics only weakly related to my main interests. I guess it's both a "proposal" of new trends and a profiling method. Or, some totally different thing that I could never imagine bc I'm not an expert ] . And now, I'll try to send this post. Good morning dr C and Team Healthy, Jan 9, from Italy.
@@kathyherrington3648 Good question. It's my opinion that if it's possible to surround them with positive role models, who are willing to put up with some of their guff and build some relationship over time, they can be helped. But they're likely to remain very difficult for quite a long time. The lack of empathy ....
@@kathyherrington3648 From my 30+ years of experience being married to one, they do not because of their refusal to look at their own behavior or take any responsibilty for their actions.
I'm cautious about emotionally immature people when I meet new ones. Emotional immaturity is a big red flag. 🚩
I’m not interested in babysitting anymore
@@caroleminke6116 I no longer take care of anyone's tantrums.
Good point!
CPTSD can cause it too but also causes Narcissistic Personality Disorder and some of Us who have CPTSD from Childhood Abuse git lucky and ended up being Super Empaths. As a Super Empath we are very Quick too pick up on Narcissistic but are also prone to being played y The, because we have poor Emotional Regualtors.
Me too. Sometimes people with drinking problems don't mature either.
It’s painful to watch and experience when narcissistic people behave so immaturely and they can’t see it . They have given up on the most precious and beautiful things in life such as love, empathy, joy, kindness, reciprocity, connection, integrity, intimacy, authenticity and truth. Thank you 🙏 dr Carter ❤ God bless you ❤
Amen.
My late sister Sharon's greatest quote: "Things of great beauty are full of corruption." Perhaps that is because people expect too much out only just things.
@@francesbernard2445 Doesn't necessarily sound like a healthy take, seems more dismissive avoidant.
@@IzabelaWaniek-i1x I think this is so beautifully said.
I've been thinking that a covert and pro-social narcisstist is like a stool that someone has spray-painted gold. @francesbernard2445
As a mama of 5 kids under 8, I can attest 100% that a narcissistic adult is often stuck in toddlerhood.
Yup & you’re their mommy supply who enabled them to separate from the original mother… but not quite, hence the cycle with you or another target
You've got your hands full!
@susanbennetttellstales7998 hahaha...yes I do! And with narcissistic & co-dependant parents, in-laws and siblings...there's not a lot of adults in the room but myself.
@@Fireside-Chat-With-Kat How I do sympathise! Take care of yourself xxx
Whatever age it is, it is likely not an age where they can have the insight of what a true and healthy marriage means. Yet, some have made lifetime "commitments" and here we are.
Actually everyone is simply mommy supply to a narc 😉 even kids
Dealing with any of them, on any level is literally fruitless. It's like running a preschool for wayward toddlers. Great vid Dr. C.
Who never reach potty training
Rather run the preschool you mention! At least there's a chance for improvement... Not so with Narcis.
The name calling, throwing things, etc., leads me to believe they're stuck at age 3-5 years old; arrested development.
My husband has just recently started throwing things at me. So far, it’s pillows, blankets, & the like, but he whips them so forcefully, they actually hurt. This is always accompanied by the vile name calling. He cusses at me like a drunken sailor. He’s always used being Irish as his excuse & I bought that for years, but now, it’s escalated to a whole new level. I actually started looking at condos in the area today. If you have time, please keep me in your prayers. Thank you!
@kathleenosullivan8601 Oh my gosh, I certainly will. Mine went from throwing things to punching holes in walls then onto pushing me. It seems to escalate as they age. Be safe always!
Breaking your things, using or destroying your things, hollering, poking, punching walls or cupboards, breaking them, denting the steering wheel by punching it, the radio, cornering out, screaming in your face, throwing you off balance, whipping you with a clothing item, pillow, smacking, kicking, tossing furniture. All signs that it will probably escalate. They say your gut is the best indicator. People might not think of withholding nourishment or ability.
To me I feel it's hard to pick an age but if you believe 7 to be the age of reason I would say maybe 7 or 8 they know and start using it as a learned tactic for purpose.
@@kathleenosullivan8601Please give in touch with a woman shelter and a lawyer. Yes , it will escalate , and yes , you are in danger.
@@kathleenosullivan8601You are in danger. Contact a Center for abuse and a lawyer and make yourself safe. Don't just rely on the prayers of others rely on yourself to take action to protect yourself. If this person kills you it'll be too late.
I will adamantly declare they are at the ages 0-13! That’s the absolute truth that I have discovered so far (age 60 years 😉).
Yup. Brother is same age with 0 Emotional intelligence
I knew a covert narcissist who had a college degree but who saw things in black and white and talked about economics as a 7th grader would.
When I first saw the tantrum in my ex, I gave him the benefit of the doubt, told him to 'stop acting like a 12y o'. A few years later my son turned 12, and was acting more matured than his dad!
I wish I knew about this then, I wd hv gotten out sooner 😓
I realized the max emotional age of my husband was 14 when our son turned 15 and he was more mature than his dad.
Wish I had known so I would have never married him. The HARM he has caused is extremely Sad. Financial, Emotional, etc. Dangerous.
This would explain why he is obsessed with middle/high school. That time period is the frame of reference for everything even at 45 plus.
Wow! I'm wondering if that age group is worse than mine, which was 10.
Preadolescent thinker inside a toddler
that's better than being stuck at 2 or 3 - which some are
I have been learning more and more about narcissism and the more I learn the more I seem to realize how many people in my life seem to have these traits. When I feel like I am surrounded by them I wonder what am I supposed to do with these relationships now? Cognitive dissonance is real… I recognize and forget and then recognize the traits popping up again and again.
I have often wondered about this. Does a narcissist’s age of immaturity stay at the actual age they were abused, neglected, rejected, spoiled? Or does their age of immaturity begin when they realize as adults (or there close to adulthood) they’ve hit the jackpot on how to get people to do what they want them to do. And then, do all narcissists immature in reverse as a normal person would mature with age? It seems like the narcissists I’ve dealt with become more and more childish as they get older. Looking forward to this one, DrC!
Thanks, KellyJean. Hope you like the new format with it!
They have a bunch of inner parts that for the most part have taken over. (In IFS, everyone has parts, but not everyone spends time taken over by a part, and not everyone spends as long stuck in one part). Each part is created when it is separated off, denied, rejected. Their actual self is on major lockdown. Look up the 8cs from Richard Schwartz, that is self energy. Their expression of those 8cs is severely limited, because other parts are for the most part running the show. So there is likely a 3yo, a 1yo, a 9yo, a 5yo, etc. from across their history. I believe the official text says up to age 7 but the hands on clinical cases say up to age 9, we are most susceptible to creating these parts within our psyche.
Even young children are expert manipulators
I love that first question!
I don't know why it seems that definitely some outer force makes them a narcissist - perhaps they just are inclined that way from birth, as much as some people are born with congenital pain insensitivity or other qualities that most people don't have. In such cases at best, it's not that they were abused, but that the people around them didn't have enough training to be able to reduce the narcissistic inclination in them during childhood.
I know! I know!
THEY are self-adventAGEous!!
Nailed it!
Now we know, so we will...
...Stay Healthy!
Thanks, Bara.
Honestly, some people are more emotionally mature by the age of 5 than narcissistic persons.
I'm going with the so-called terrible twos - along with teenage contemptuousness and adult ability to maneuver in the world.
I always laughed at “The Terrible Two’s” because the Three’s are Oh, So Very Much Worse!!!! 😂😂😂
@kathleenosullivan8601 is that b cause they are more articulate? My friend could not even come up with a word for three's except "ugh!"
@@sage9836 Hahaha! I’m just glad my kids & grandkids are all past the 2’s AND 3’s!
Yes all 3 are the motor of operation. The gameplay is definitely like teenage adolescence or there evilness!
Teenage libido.
Most are Middle School Bullies who Openly Brag about being 18 FOREVER!!! They literally are saying I’m a Spoiled Child in a Adults Body.
I've seen some like that. Thankfully. my husband did TRY to be an adult. But, emotionally, he was 10. I guess that's what makes mine a covert narcissist. Although I must say that even covert narcissists can be very overt at times.
Thank-you so much, Dr. Carter. I learned a lot today and your knowledge explains why I felt that my ex-husband acted like a child so often. I also love your new Unbound format. And I would like to share some positive news with you. As you know I divorced a malignant narcissist five months ago and after not being able to work for 33 years, I was offered a part-time job today working with children at our local YMCA. It's your podcasts that have helped me heal. I understand that'm going to be healing for the rest of my life. This is okay with me because this means I'll carry the knowledge of what I endured and hopefully i will continue to grow and mature as I continue to work towards being a better version of myself.
Thanks, Jackie...and good luck with that new job. My wife and I are members of the Y too! Great facilities!
@@SurvivingNarcissismThank-you so much, Dr. Carter.
Congratulations!!! I'm so happy for you! ❤
@@Rachel-mz8koThank-you!
❤❤❤
Gifted people also age "asynchronously". Intellect can be double their age but emotional can lag behind. That may complicate the situation with both gifted victims and gifted abusers.
I've met someone like this and God did he make a point of how intelligent he was. Went to gifted classes as child did well at university but was an absolutely controlling and critical ar..E with zero social skills or manners.
@TheMazinoz. Once, I went to see a play with a guy who had just finished his BA in chemistry. He embarrassed me greatly. He picked his nose while surrounded by people. He applauded as if he were a seal, slamming his hands together and making a sound louder than anyone else in the theater. He wasn't narcissistic, just socially retarded. He was about 30.
So my narc husband never developed to early adult age where an ounce of empathy was developed in spite of his highly gifted intellect.
I told my husband all the time that he threw tantrums like a 5 year old
My partner's 33 y/o daughter targeted me right before Christmas. It was SO bad that my partner, HER FATHER, kicked her out of our home. While in the process of attempting to turn her father against me, she completely disregarded his MULTIPLE demands to leave our home while behaving like an immature adolescent in the presence of her impressionable, 7 y/o daughter. So, I began saying to my partner's narcissistic daughter: "You're behaving like a 12 y/o." With each tantrum this GROWN WOMAN threw, I went down in age to 10, 8. When I got to '8' I said to her 7 y/o dauhter that her and her mom are now about the same age. Then I continued to 5, then 4, and the narc daughter responded with: "4 years old... really??" She drew the line at 4. So, it appears that she's emotionally stuck at 5 years old, because 4 is too insulting and offensive to her.
Dr. Les....you are my own personal Yoda when it comes to healthy insight. I'm divorcing a brutal, childish narcassistic, chronical age of 55.
EQ age approx 15.
Your ability to break down the concepts of a narcassist's personality & behavior is easy to understand. I always feel better after listening to you. Thanks a bunch!
My workplace has utterly collapsed due to narcissism run amok. No knows what they are doing and everyone is running around like chickens, firing people left and right, blaming everyone for everything. Stay safe out there folks!
Thank you so much today for this broadcast! This was so helpful Dr. Carter. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you Dr.C and Team Healthy ❤️
I have been following the comments with fun suspense. I am seeing different numbers and speculating that what is in common (tell me if I am wrong) is we are talking about someone who can martial enough knowledge to cause mayhem, but does not enough maturity to do better.
@@sage9836 EXACTLY!!! Well said!
My sister is 88 and acts like a bratty, hateful child. Always has, which is why I went no contact.
Countless times I've thought "I'm married to a nine-year-old." Now, I know why.
I've been thinking for years that the max emotional age is 14, but when told "no", the emotional age drops to about a two year having a tantrum. Slams doors like a teenage girl was he's upset. He's 59 y/o, 6 ft tall and has access to the bank accounts and credit cards. Scary.
When his mood changes and he starts pouting and then gesticulating and standing his feat ... I call him a toddler
It’s all a game for them !
What I have experienced is that they always have a narcissistic cult like family with a lot of people
My neighbours only associate with family members and they are all narcissistic. No sane person would have anything to do with them on an ongoing basis.
Feeling a little creeped out, knowing this was my wife.
You’re really her parent because narcissists turn partners into mothers or fathers but everyone including children become mommy supply
Oops. Used my other (private) account to comment. We all make mistakes.
Yes, I became the mother he hated.@@caroleminke6116
Same here my husband has NPD just got fired on purpose from a job of 40 years throwing a tantrum! It’s creepy and disgusting!
You said I do... haa haa
I've seen more mature 3 year olds on a sugar rush than the middle aged narc in my life.
Thank you for the wee laugh.
❤ always awesome DrC! Thank you.
I know someone that has dishes for the purpose of throwing in her anger, temper tantrum.
She had shown her temper tantrum to me in Walnarts a couple times. With calm words, I was backing away so others passing by won't think we're together.
I eventually went "no contact" with her. Too much energy expended and was effecting my mental health.
They are very good at putting it into your court . Realizing that it is their issue is freeing 😊
My 61 year old brother has never had the responsibility of living on his own and paying rent, utilities etc. He lives with my mom in the house I bought for her and is trying to blackmail me to sign over my mom’s half of the house to him. I am the youngest and his little sister, I have financially and physically cared for our mom since I was 19. Now he’s turned our mom against me and went behind my back taking over as power of attorney. His mentality reminds me of a teenager, lack of empathy.
Hope you don’t sign it over to him.
@@ericb8413I have a Lawyer and will not be intimidated 👍
Great information as always!
Glad it was helpful!
On one hand they are clever and calculative where as on the other hand they are callous
I finally cut ties with my MIL just after figuring out that she most likely was a vulnerable narcissist. She behaved exactly like an adolescent would, and still does. She cannot accept that anyone would dare tell her to leave them alone and mean it.
I'd go with 11-13 as an average. Puberty is a vital component in the mix during this age range. Have certainly experienced a few adult characters behaving like 12 year olds...
My 80 year-old mother face-planted on her bed and wailed when the conversation revealed that she'd done something dishonest. She bawled that something else was terribly sad. My father shooed everyone out because she was "upset". It was so slapstick. 🙄 She was never so blatant when she was younger.
Narcissists' emotional age is at the first development stage.
I can't remember the number of times I have told my future X Wife: "I can not deal with you at the four year old level that you choose to interact."
Thank you for updating your sponsor by the way, we appreciate it. 😊❤
Dr. C, my 81 year old wife has been mean, angry and contemptuous toward me for the past 40 years but equally kind and thoughtful toward EVERYONE else. While I've always been supportive and helpful, she justifies her anger on the basis that 'it's my fault her life hasn't turned out the way she expected'. This begs the question of why she expects being so negative is the route to a good life when, if she'd treated me well, we could have had a wonderful time together.
Can you comment about her emotional age, given she can turn her anger and charm 'on' and 'off' to suit herself. Also, while her anger toward me seems real, is her kindness toward everyone else genuine or an act.
Narcissists are HYPOCRITES all over. There's in fact NOTHING "genuine" about them.
Sounds like she’s a master manipulator. Whether she’s being mean or nice it’s all manipulative.
Sadly, it's an act.
Whatever the age is that they throw their toys out of the pram!
EXACTLY! So juvenile! My “child-husband” is 73!
😂
Oh, Amanda, I really do love 🥰 your kind of humor 😂. You are such a good comedian 🤭😍
Hope your surrounding is a bit peaceful these days 💫🕊Sending you lots of good wishes 💖🤗
P.S.: My daughter is coming back tonight from Vienna. We will see 😉
Have a lovely time with your daughter 🌸✨️❤️🕯🙏
My brother is 60 but 10 in maturity. He has 0 and I mean 0 emotional intelligence
The people that left their cars were yelled at by fire officials to abandon them or they were going to die. This later blocked the road, and they bulldozed them. They weren't burned out from what I've gathered, although that wouldn't surprise me considering patterns from previous fires. The aftermath will be interesting. Im in the area for 30 years and these Santa Ana winds have never been the strong.
She was in the late thirties and giggled like a baby and started whining like a child that’s denied a cookie when I told her NO at her inviting herself to stay at my place.
I’m work in progress, thank you team healthy and Doc and family and Gus!
I’m a work in progress too. Glad we’re on the trail together!
If narcissists are emotionally immature, do they also have a limited consciousness, both self and general. What I mean is, are they capable of thinking at a certain level of abstraction or being deeply creative?
It's all interconnected, so you speculate correctly. A lack of emotional maturity has a major spill over effect related to contemplative thinking.
Don't discount EVERY childlike adult as a toxic person..Some are very sincere people who wouldn't harm a fly..But,yeah!Narcs are like petulant little assholes!
My experience is six years old.
Wondering, if my father got stuck at age 14, when his last brother…an “oops” baby was born. Him, now being the baby of the family, he got lots of attention. As he grew up his love of music probably took center stage and it became too much for my father, who was a teenager, to handle. He married at 19…first kid born at 21…I came along 13 months later. 3 more kids joined the family in quick succession so lots of responsibility for 2 immature damaged people. Mother has narcissistic personality disorder & I feel he absorbed tendencies from her. All in all, the kids were doomed from birth. Thank you for your videos…..I’ve learned so much.
I miss Gus
Very interesting - real food for thought. Thanks Dr. C 👍✨️
The age of Peter Pan is my observation.
"I won't grow up!"
That's a good one!!! 😂😹😂
Is it only me who has noticed for a long time that people who grew up during Great Depression seem more diverse in their outlook on life and their being expressed value system beyond the superficial than in later generations? Maybe far different story behind closed doors today among all in the approved of thinking cap crowd.
Digging the Unbound videos. Great info as usual Doc!
Very good insight once again.
Family narcissists feel free to ask for things but will not help when we ask them. They don't do anything that isn't their own idea. I stopped suggesting things for us to do because they never cooperate, as though I did something wrong by suggesting we do something together. Even when I have offered to help them with something they turn me down just because I asked, so I stopped offering to help.
My first duty station in the Navy in 1986. My work center. Deja vu. Relived my 5th grade year.
I think it's whatever age they give up on love.
I've seen a man in his fifties stand there and pout like a five year old.
Wow! What a thought. Thank you.
I would say between 5 and 7 ! Some are 9 !😅
My late husband was a bipolar alcoholic with narcissistic behavior. However he did go to therapy and AA for his issues. I learned in AlAnon that an alcoholic’s maturity growth stopped at the age they started drinking. Therefore when they quit drinking, their maturity level was still at the age that age. My husband started drinking when he was 15. Not sure if this is true for all of them.
A lot of narcissists never drank alcohol nor took drugs.
We should always stay away from the village idiots who do not age
I would be interested in knowing which elementary school grade is the one in which you might indicate this behavior?
I subbed all school levels and enjoyed them all respectively and taught pre school and HeadStart. I always wanted to teach 4th grade. I don't know if it's still so, but this seemed like such a great stage.
It's a wonderful age to relate to the students as is 3rd grade where they start questioning a lot more and are so inquisitive.
@Delacari 💕
What is the connection between narcissism and religiosity?
I dated a 52 year old 14 year old !! Ridiculous 🤷♀️
Age 8 and if they live for another thousand years they would not change.
Wait a Minute 😮 , Where's my Pen Pal 🐕 Dog Mr. Gus , Doc you're on his seat
Do you have a video on narcissists changing? I know it’s extremely uncommon but the curiosity struck me: what would that even look like?
When you have a malignant one, or a high intelligence one they have “cognitive empathy “. They study you and use it against you. They are also total perfectionists so since they manipulate the rules you are always committing infractions. And they are so superior. They are the 8 year old on the playground belittling you, Subtile and planned.
Eye-opening. Also disturbing and sad to know.
Toddler!
Bingo!
A toddler's tantrum is a normal behavior. An adult's tantrum is an unhealthy one.
It seems that way to me as well. This is the "me" stage. They can't see outside of themselves yet. And they have a problem with higher reasoning. I'm betting on toddler with you!
@@yukio_saito
There's nothing more awful to watch than seeing an adult toddler having a temper tantrum.
I agree. It’s like the narcissist never got past the toddler stage.
Why do Narcs “give” something with all kinds of payback attached??
It’s because with them, everything is transactional. It’s sad and equally frustrating.
They are committed to looking after only themselves.
The emotional age of most narcissists is 4 YEARS OLD.
Smart enough to have some language skills and understanding of harmful behaviors but seriously lacking in future consequences for their actions. When all else fails,
they can turn on the tears!
My own Father never became more developed than a stubborn and mischievous 5 year old little boy even though he is now 80+ My whole life has been a difficult struggle but now I have shielded myself from his idiotic opinions.
i would have guessed that they are trapped in puberty..
They will tell you that you are immature. It’s really them.
I'm confused. Is this live? What happened to Midweek with Dr Carter?
We have discontinued the weekly live feed so I can answer questions in this format instead. I'll post at least 2 Unbound segments per week, sometimes 3. I feel it allows me to unpack the questions a bit more fully with this new format. I really like responding to viewers' input.
Thank you, Dr C for responding. I really enjoy Unbound. It's nice to have a different format. It is more in-depth answers, and as always, you do a great job!!! 👍 Thank you for all that you do to keep educating us in creative ways!!! ♥️😊♥️
Dr. Carter, I have a Question: Are all immature people Narcissist?
Thank you in advance. Also its nice seeing you relax... I wonder if Gus is on the sofa with you.🐶❤
I remember at age eight the strange feeling that my father was like a toddler and I had to take on being the man as things fell into chaos.
Well, many of us already know your "general" answer from a past live chat 😁
That said... I'm very interested in your delving deeper, dr C .
I was also wondering if different types (and degrees) of narcissism can imply different emotional ages.
Meaning, if the worst types in the spectrum behave like a lower "age" than the "average narcissist" .
I have also wondered about the last bit - whether the higher up the spectrum the lower the emotional age.
Interesting point!
Is it also possible that they had actually not faced any strain or difficulty?
Very interesting topic and analysis. Dr Carter's estimate is that narcs' emotional age is around 9~14 years. This makes good sense. However the narcs I've had to cope with lacked any ability to value other people for the goodness within them. They could only see value in those people's social standing and utility. I would like to think that many children younger than nine can identify goodness in others. So I'm wondering if narcs' empathetic age is even lower, maybe at pre-school level.
how to break away from a narcissist? Please tell.
Could this emotional immaturity be do in part to any of the abuses done to a narcissist at that age level? My husband is a narcissist. There is evidence of abuse in his childhood.
So I guess this means my ex husband was stuck on the 6-12 year old stage. That actually makes perfect sense after discovering his history.
Hi Dr. C,
Thank you so much for your insightful and helpful videos. I truly appreciate your work!
I have two questions for you:
How can you tell if your child is experiencing abuse from a narcissistic (step) parent, or if that parent is simply very old-fashioned and authoritarian in their approach, but reasonable enough in their demands?
Is it possible for a narcissist to be highly responsible and reliable when it comes to daily chores or practical matters concerning the family, and still exhibit narcissistic behavior?
Thank you (from Denmark) in advance for your time and insights!
29 years of my life wasted. How do you get pass that Dr C
Tech issues information.
Is anyone ( accustomed regular commenters ) having tech problems in posting both their replies and/or new comments in their most frequented channels like this of dr C,
*in the last few weeks and especially in the last few days?*
-> Not occuring in all channels, though. These macrosystems are impossible to understand...
Now I'll try to send this one as a new post because the majority of my replies to other commenters disappear instantly just after posting.
*I'm so sorry for interrupted conversations...*
Edit:
in the last 24 hours I tried to post this comment at least 20 times... and only now it is permanently visible.
other comments and replies in other videos of Dr C, I gave up sending posts after 3 or 4 times, in the last few days 🥴
Hey lishmah. It happens to me all the time too. I'm not sure why, but it is some sort of algorithm thing. Please keep posting...I really like your comments.
I’ve had this happen to me quite a bit lately, too, on several different channels. Not sure what’s up with RUclips.
Been happening to me too, various channels. I thought the owner was editing comments for some reason.
@SurvivingNarcissism
Thank you very much dr C
💚
You are so kind to reassure my 10 year old "inner child" !!!
( I wasn't doing it enough indeed).
Yes, some algorithm definitely.
This glitch doesn't seem random at all. It seems "targeted". Meaning, targeted at regular commenters, at constant commenters in xyz channels.
*Maybe youtube politics to promote some channels and slow down other ones?*
Maybe. In which direction? Impossible to understand.
[ I'm saying that because not all the channels have this glitch at the same time. However, it happens "all together" in the channels where a usual commenter has more good and closer "relationships" with other usual commenters, so to speak. In this case, I was like totally cutoff for about 24 hours from all my main channels. (sometimes it happens for more days or for 1-2 weeks in which I can only send very few posts) .
In the meantime, the system was propounding new channels and new topics only weakly related to my main interests. I guess it's both a "proposal" of new trends and a profiling method. Or, some totally different thing that I could never imagine bc I'm not an expert ] .
And now, I'll try to send this post.
Good morning dr C and Team Healthy,
Jan 9, from Italy.
@@kaymuldoon3575
Thank you very much for your validation 🌼
I was thinking more like middle school age.
When children start empathizing with others, they are about to age 3 or so. Then they realize others also have feelings. Narcs stay at age 1 or 2.
Many times, it’s the age the parental abuse / neglect occurred.
That was very interesting but sad.
3 years of age, tops.
Please listen to:
Papa
By:
Paul Anka.
That's a blast from the past!
Just continue to mature during their life?
I actually was asking- do they or could they continue to grow up and mature?
@@kathyherrington3648 Good question. It's my opinion that if it's possible to surround them with positive role models, who are willing to put up with some of their guff and build some relationship over time, they can be helped. But they're likely to remain very difficult for quite a long time. The lack of empathy ....
@@kathyherrington3648 From my 30+ years of experience being married to one, they do not because of their refusal to look at their own behavior or take any responsibilty for their actions.
Do narc victims of narcissist partners ever come back to their family?