As a black man in the UK I want to say I really appreciate your opening comments. Very thoughtful and considerate. Have subscribed and really enjoy your deep analysis.
right on Joshua! You gotta draw the line early with those types or they think they own the place. Now we can hopefully just enjoy the show like normal people :)
You’re introduction to the Velaryons was epic! I’m so excited with the actor choices and just by the look of the character, I think the Seasnake will be AMAZING! Probably my most favorite character in Fire and Blood
Additionally, I agree with you the skin color of the Seasnake. Why that even matters to folks is ridiculous: it’s the performance of the actor (and writers) that matters. Consider The Shawshank Redemption - in the novella titled Rita Hayworth and Shawshank Redemption, Red -the narrator of the story and amazingly portrayed by Morgan Freeman, is called Red because of his red hair and is never specially stated to be white but often assumed by readers to be simply because of his hair color. His last name is also never revealed in the story and for the movie is given the last name Redman.
@@DavidLightbringer love the video, love the choice they made. House Velaryon is one of my favorite houses in the series and it will be great to see them represented by minorities in western pop culture. also love the stance you took on people vehemently against it. coming from the books I was one of the people thinking Corlys was white and looked to see the same on screen. the breakdown for how it logically works for the canon was great
my biggest concern with House of The Dragon is not to do with the story itself or writing or acting...it's how it's shot, the earlier seasons of Game of Thrones were shot on 35-38mm film and converted to digital, it felt very gritty, natural and organic. The later seasons we're shot entirely digitally and left the show looking flat, shallow and lifeless, i just hope they take what made the earlier seasons of Game of Thrones so great visually and translate it to House of The Dragon. love ya work David !
Fuck! Everything you just said are things we usually never expect. We just want to be included. But you went above and beyond. You're invited to cookout 💕
Also, you're so fine with you're Tony Montana fit. You may not realize but your outfits are sexy af... I hope you realize that ppl stay thirsting for your nerd costumes 💕
The Black Pearl of Braavos (and descendants), Sarella Sand, and Nettles - all are Targaryen descent with darker skin so there’s nothing wrong with the casting choices for the Velaryons. Plus, as you’ve said many times, the Great Empire had multiple ethnicities so it shouldn’t be a surprise to see people from the Valyrian peninsula look like just about anything. I don’t think they rode or kept dragons in Valyria, they’re not mentioned as one of the 40 dragonlord families. I think they acquired the ability to ride dragons after Aenar came to Westeros due to a Targaryen marrying in/having a child with a Velaryon. Timestamp 30:30. Yup. Of all the dragonseeds, the one whose ancestry got questioned the most in the fandom was Nettles because she has dark skin. “She doesn’t look Targaryen! 🤪” There is nothing to suggest she wasn’t a dragonseed. Just because you have Targ blood doesn’t mean a dragon will automatically like you (Quentyn), you still have to earn its trust. Nettles was smart by feeding it sheep so it wouldn’t fry her and she was able to bond enough to ride because of a dragonlord ancestor.
One of the many thing I like about Martin's writing is that he makes it very clear that the most competent people don't usually get to have the power and lead. I also appreciate that he writes women as people, but which are often completely overlooked by their peers and history.
Just started the stream.. looking forward to it!! Im brazilian and i know “Vela” means sail in portuguese. Portugal was a major player during the age of sail irl so that might be where George got their name from
The stream is appreciated! I'm personally very interested to see how these different timelines will go, even in the first season. I'm also interested to see how many of the people that have already "sworn off" from watching it will end up caving in if it's utterly fantastic, lol. Thank you for keeping the spark burning!
Thank you for providing a safe space to discuss the sheer beauty of seeing a Black man on a powerful dragon. The scene of Lenore on beautiful Seasmoke was great! The youthful destruction and thrill of the fight was spectacular to witness. Representation in the fantasy genre is a huge advance. Bringing all the things we buffs have loved and admired for decades to a wider audience. As a nerd coming of age in the 80’s, I didn’t have any friends to share my enthusiasm for the popular stories. I even had a good friend who criticized me for enjoying a genre where there is no diversity. I can hear her now saying “even in non-sexual fantasy we [African Americans or Black people] don’t exist.” She was right then, but I’m happy that things are changing for the better now.😘
Exactly, the core elements that make fantasy work can appeal to everyone and should belong to everyone. Most of it is taken from centuries-old mythology, so for groups of people (certain white people) try to own it in the context of modern race politics is just wrong.
I'm still trying to have no expectations for House of the Dragon since I'd much rather be pleasantly surprised than disappointed, but you're making it awfully hard not to get excited, heh heh
Also house Velaryon and Summer Islanders are both famous mariners and traders. I wouldn't find it that strange that they would intermarry with a powerful Summer Islander family, maybe for trade contacts/political reasons.
@@peterg9729 not sure why you felt compelled to trade in your participation in this channel for sake of making a generic right-wing jargon comment but there it is huh
I kinda like this explanation as it shows Velaryons as an actual powerful house who with skills and power of their own not just a source valerian genetic material. Corys could have also had a Bravvos grandmother and hence with a combo of bravos + summer island etc would explain why he was such a prodigy.
Thanks for the stream. I really loved The Rogue Prince and The Princess And The Queen, but after GOT I was super skeptical about the new show. But having watched your video from earlier in the week, as well as this stream, I'm quite a bit more optimistic. Dare I say, looking forward to it.
The velaryons travel widely and live as traders so summer island blood is in no way surprising. Linking two cultures of ship building and travel focus makes sense.
Pretty succinct justification for the casting of the Velaryons and the Harwin Strong parentage of Laenor's children, especially if you look at it from a screenwriting point of view. It will now easily be visually established that Harwin is the father, where otherwise you would need exposition through dialogue. In a book that works better, but on screen, not so much. Look at Ned finding out the parentage of Joffrey: in the book you're inside his thoughts, so that works, but on screen they had to have him read it out loud, which looks a bit silly. And on a show like this that needs to appeal to a broad audience, there is no time for subtlety. So I like this solution.
Yes! But i really hope they give him a bit more to do next season! I havent read the books but Ive read about the character and was a bit underwhelmed from what we got in the show - not from the actor but from the script to be superclear on that point haha
Honestly I think a lot of the - 'hesitation' - to put Rhaenys or Rhaenyra on the throne stems from the fact that their children (Rhaenyra's first batch anyway) would not be Targaryens, but Velaryons. Like the Sea Snake says in the new trailer: "History does not remember blood, it remembers names."
Re: the black Velaryons. There are some people from the Melanesian Islands in the Pacific who have extremely dark skin but also blond hair and even blue eyes, with no European DNA btw. And the Summer Isles are based on the Pacific islands so this could've been a possible inspiration for that look on the show.
right, because really there are no hard and fast boundaries between "races," and what we usually mean when we say "race" is actually a combination of many separate genetic markers AND cultural identity. Lighter skin evolved in several places in Eurasia and that doesn't make those separate groups "related." I'm actually talk about this in my next Mythic Concepts video, are you subbed to that Michael? Seems like you'd dig it
Well done again, dense content and good entertainment! Congratulations on fostering a community that welcomes everyone who has an open mind and respect for each other.
Caught this stream on playback & was so excited bc House Velaryon is my fav one being featured in HOTD!!!! Really getting super hype for the new show and your coverage! I was sad to see this video end. Looking forward to this Sunday’s. 🙏🏼♥️
Thank you for this informative stream. Regardless of how GOT ended, I think most people can agree that casting was not the problem. I trust that the casting is on point for this show as well. House Velaryon looks awesome and I am looking forward to watching.
This stream hyped up my excitement for this new show a bit! :D really appreciated you going through all this back story. It's easy for me to get confused with all these characters and events, but this helped.
I appreciated your discussion about the casting of the Sea Snake. And I agree with you that they made a good choice, that both makes sense and will only make the story better. If they go forward with a series about his voyages, I hope they can get the same actor. I was disappointed by Rhaenys not having dark hair, because I would have appreciated the Baratheon connection. It looks like the actress has naturally dark hair. So I’m not sure why they made that choice. But it is a minor detail in the overall picture. I enjoyed the stream. And I look forward to your continued preparation for House of the Dragon!
Yeah, they will have to show the Baratheon connection another way - it’s pretty important, as we saw from the history, and again in the scene where Aemond kills Lucerys. Plus the audience already knows Baratheon so it’s logical to use them.
A little after 1:00:42, David: Corlys is in his 70s in the books. They may change it, he looks younger here. You're probably right, although he could be in his seventies and look that young thanks to being more melanated. At minimum I'd expect him to appear weathered from his many sea travels and working outdoors building ships.
I think they’ll play fast and loose with ages to fit the story, as they probably should. Rhaenys is 20 years younger in book canon so might as well make Corlys younger
Love your channel and only came across it a few days ago and instantly subscribed as I love how you explain the history to someone who hasn’t read the books
Left this comment on an old Gray Area video on people getting upset with a person of African descent getting the job for Corlys Velaryon. My uncle's father moved to America as a child from a small Sicilian fisherman town. The area had a decent size port and made money off of trade, fishing, and the likes. My uncle's mother was also of Italian descent, so he would proudly tell anyone that he was 100% Italian. My aunt got him a 23andMe DNA test for his birthday. My Uncle proudly waited to get the results and was shocked to find out he was roughly 40% Italian, 25% Moroccan, 15 percent Middle Eastern, and a small percent of a number of other areas bordering the Atlantic Ocean or the Mediterranean sea. From the research, it appears that a lot of his Sicilian family married traders and merchants. So for a seafaring family to not have mixed race and darker-skinned members of their family would actually be surprising, not the other way around.
Thanks so much for adding that personal story. It makes the point I was trying to, yeah exactly. It would be weird if they never married anyone outside of royal marriages to Targaryens or cousin branches of Velaryon
@@DavidLightbringer Thank you, and I think you made that point well. I love the story because it makes me think a lot about race and our perception of race. My uncle looks Italian. He has that tan to olive skin tone with curly dark brown hair, but these traits are often seen in the Middle East and North African countries like Egypt too. I wonder how many other European/Mediterranean traits are actually just the mixing of multiple sea-faring people like Northern Africans, Middle Easterners, and Southern Europeans.
@@danielbrhel8344 so I’ve been doing a lot of research into ancient migrations and origins lately. The “Mediterranean look” is essentially a remnant of a population of “Anatolian farmers” who spread out from Anatolia and the Middle East around 7,000 BCE and mostly replaced the Neolithic hunter-gatherer population to become the dominant one across Eurasia. Then in 3500 BCE or so the Proto Indo European steppe peoples spread out from the steppe north of the Black Sea, not quite replacing Anatolian farmers but def leaving a dominant imprint on the genome - and this effect is more pronounced the farther north you go. For example people around the Mediterranean will have over half Anatolian farmer, while in the UK it would be a small % with PIE-related ancestry being dominant. Anatolian farmers were “somewhere in the middle” pigment wise, and the Mediterranean look is essentially their legacy. Oh and farming. That too
@@DavidLightbringer That is very interesting I have watched your Kali video on Mythic Concepts along with about 90% of the videos on this channel so I have heard bits and pieces of what you are talking about. But did not know about the Anatolia farmers, I actually had to look Anatolia up. All very interesting stuff, that really makes it obvious how uneducated people with certain race ideas truly are.
Haha, you know sometimes I feel like “yeah, I’m doing something good, using my microphone the right way,” and sometimes I feel like I’m just an opinionated guy with ADHD who says whatever comes to his mind with little filter. Ha. Appreciate it.
I’m stoked for this show! I love the lore and history of fire and blood and of course asoiaf. I hope it’s great. Loved the recent video you made. Thanks lml 🙏🏻
I have to say, I COMPLETELY agree with you about the decision to cast black actors for House Velaryon!! And I'm usually one of those STAY TRUE TO THE BOOKS YOU HEATHENS kinda person. But I absolutely LOVED this decision!!!! 👏👍💯😊
I think it is very strange that Laenor was completely fine with some other mans child inheriting his families vast wealth, lands, titles, and navy. I get that he's into men, but you would think he would at least tried to give Rhaenyra one or two true born offspring. Especially since his line was destined to be kings. After that job was done him and Rhaenyra could have gone on doing their own thing on High Tide and Kings landing respectively.
“So when can I marry the princess?” “Everywhere is booked up and what with COVID they’ve got a huge backlog of bookings they’ve got to do first. Sorry but it will happen at some point in the future”
@@DavidLightbringer I feel like that and knight of the seven kingdoms would be a screenwriters wet dream. Thanks for doing what you do. Hardest working man on RUclips.
Love how when shows or movies include women or ANY KIND of people of color, folks just assume it’s “wokeness” 🙄😂. Thank you SO much for the LOGICAL cannon explanation. The racists and bigots gon be big mad 😂😂😂😂, but just for the record, I’m black, my husband is white. Both my mixed race kids have light skin and blue eyes. My daughter is honey blonde and my son has light brown hair. My daughter married a dark skinned black man, and they have 3 children. One is light skinned while the others are browner, but not dark. All have dark hair, two have curly hair and one has straight hair. All have grey or green eyes. All look mixed race black, but closer to black than white. My son is engaged to a brown haired, blue eyed white girl. They have a 3 year old who looks white, but has thick, blonde curls. My point is, as with my son’s son, it’s not uncommon to look white when your add mixture is 3/4 white and 1/4 black. Just as with my daughter’s kids, it’s not uncommon to look black when your add mixture is 3/4 black, and 1/4 white. I really wouldn’t think twice about Laenor’s kids looking white.
@@DavidLightbringer Oh yeah, i haven't thought of it that far, but i can se he shares the same imagery with both of them. Great ravens follow him and are his spy network kind of like Bloodraven, and he can change into a literal dragon hehe . But also some similarities with the Azor Ahai (spoilers for the main series), him naming his husk sword Vengeance/Grief after his brother's died and then he wields Dragnipur which has the soul of someone really important to him trapped in it. I didn't think you were gonna answer my comment, I really like your theories about asoiaf.
I gotta say I love your analysis and even better we get Old Man Voice and Reading Rheagar every so often, Keep it up LML!! Oh and I love the music You and your Cousin made. I am also a musician and dig it! Also where has Grey Area been for the last 2 months?
Tommy Vacetti, you got some quality banter. Especially the bit calling out the people complaining about black Valeryons, came at it with logic and politeness. Well done sir
The best analysis Ive heard on the net and trust me Ive seen a lot. The Velaryons looked bad ass walking in the feast in Kings Landing dragon riders and overall looking like their ish together.👌 Poor Ser Geoffrey had no idea he was pokeing the bear, and im still confused as to what cause all the yelling at the start of the commotion. Where was Prince Daemon in the midst of all this? 🤔
My original thought on the Valeryion change was "its a civil war it's supposed to be confusing" but you make a great point look at Rome. A Roman citizen could vary from Italian, Gaul or German, Spaniards, to even Middle Eastern/Persian and even more so after Julius Ceasars reign point being though with an empire that vacuums up a ton of other cultures in time they become apart of the culture. Valeryions being sailors makes sense they would 'expand there horizons' for lack of a better phrase. Just starting off but thank-you for the stream LmL and The Sea Snake is by far the coolest character in my view.
Greetings Mr. Lightbringer, I am currently working on an paper for my Magic, Witchcraft, and Religion class in university. It’s about the symbolism of religions from ASoIaF to real world religions and/or myth. I would love to have you as a source, but my professor will only accept sources that have been published in writing. Do you have any papers about this topic published on any website? Thank you!
There should be Roberts Rebellion prequel, that would be a very cool show in my opinion. Everyone already knows all the characters and shit. It would be awesome to see Tywin during that series too
Exactly like you said in the video ... I may even go further and say this was the perfect idea George could come with to fix his racial world building in westrrose ... But I'm not sure whose idia is this but it's more than perfect
Thank you for this. I love how you’re straight up about it. I hope more people watch this. On another note, In the books, I actually thought that they were saying her kids were bastards to discredit her, originally. I clearly missed some stuff before. Sometimes when I watch your analysis or Preston’s, I’m like “am I even reading the same book” lol
That may be the case actually! It seems like they are bastards but that could also be maester propaganda. I read a theory about it yesterday saying it’s not quite the open and shut case it seems at first. And you’re quite welcome!
@@DavidLightbringer oh! Okay. I really thought that’s what was going on. I don’t trust the Maesters and I really like Rhaenyras character :p so I figured maybe I was being biased. But I don’t know now. The choice they made for the show and they way you lay it out, it seems pretty convincing that her children will end up being Strongs after all. I guess we’ll see lol
Leanors' wig is even worse. It looks as if Leanor had grown long, thick locks and then just hacked them off above the shoulder. The volume is all wrong!
I fucking love the casting of the Valaryon's as a black/bi racial family. Despite the in cannon explanations of the geographical location of Valyria and the sea faring tradition of house Valaryon, the distinguishable difference between the Targaryens and the Valaryon's will make the story much easier to follow for non-book readers. It'll make the plot flow better purely from a confusion standpoint. Not to mention Corlys looks fucking badass!
House of the dragon has done the integration of another race into their story really well. I think what the rings of power has got wrong is why people are even black. The only reason black people exist is because they needed protection from lots of sunlight and black skin does that. There's no where on middle earth where people would need to have their skin like that. Also the lore is that the races were created in one area, they should either be all black, all Asian, all white and so on. In game of thrones House velarion came from another area so it's entirely possible. I think this shows the level of care that the two shows are putting in. Rings of power are putting black people in randomly for the sake of it while house of the dragon had intelligently used asoiaf lore so they can create good diversity in their show. Good on the show runners.
Just imagine if the brown-skinned African they worship were portrayed as a red-headed white guy. I'm sure they'd be completely outraged. (Poe's law warning, this is satirical)
Yeah no problem, it’s basic human decency IMO but I’m happy to clear that bar. Propaganda has radicalized people to the point where they just act insane about this shit. Cheers.
I’m gonna be completely honest. I didn’t like the casting of the velaryons at first because I felt it was diversity for diversity’s sake. As a Hispanic man I was all for diversity but I felt like the show runners just wanted to seem more woke and casted a family that was important to the show to be seen as woke. I thought it was a lazy tactic to do since the velaryon were missing in the original show but when I saw the pictures I fell in love with corlys’ look and their clothes and everything. I actually started to really like the idea of it after seeing them and hearing the show runners and their decision to do this change. And even after hearing ur explanation and reasoning behind it. It made sense in an in universe perspective and I am looking forward to seeing corlys and his badassery in this show!
Cool that’s awesome to hear. In the end any change an adaptation makes has to make sense, the ethnic background of a character is no different from any other change. It’s all in how it’s done and integrated with whatever other stuff is going on
Honestly, House of the Dragon looks more promising than Rings of Power. I really hope that GGRM, knuckles down on the writers incase they pull any shit like they did with the later seasons of GOT. But over all, the race and the nonsense about black skinned valryians is such a non issue. Sure I am grieved not to see weird veiny silvery albinos with alien features, and it would be cool to see people wear contacts or digitally change their eye colours to look purple and otherworldly. But most the actors seem solid and know what they're doing, I have a bit of hope for this series.
No I have resisted doing that to keep it fresh for when I need it. What you can do is find the moment it starts on the stream, and from desktop, click the share button and click the box that says “start at (time stamp)”
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
As a black man in the UK I want to say I really appreciate your opening comments. Very thoughtful and considerate. Have subscribed and really enjoy your deep analysis.
right on Joshua! You gotta draw the line early with those types or they think they own the place. Now we can hopefully just enjoy the show like normal people :)
Respect ✊🏾
Your so cringe using your race as some justification guess what no one cares about what skin colour you are and where you from
❤️
I've been a GrayArea watcher for a long time. I'm so glad I found this channel too. Really enjoying your content!
Those 2 are by FAR my favorite GOT/HOTD RUclipsrs. GrayArea turned me on to Lightbringer and I’m so glad she did.
You’re introduction to the Velaryons was epic! I’m so excited with the actor choices and just by the look of the character, I think the Seasnake will be AMAZING! Probably my most favorite character in Fire and Blood
Additionally, I agree with you the skin color of the Seasnake. Why that even matters to folks is ridiculous: it’s the performance of the actor (and writers) that matters. Consider The Shawshank Redemption - in the novella titled Rita Hayworth and Shawshank Redemption, Red -the narrator of the story and amazingly portrayed by Morgan Freeman, is called Red because of his red hair and is never specially stated to be white but often assumed by readers to be simply because of his hair color. His last name is also never revealed in the story and for the movie is given the last name Redman.
As someone who grew up sailing Corlys is one of my favorite characters. Great stream!
He’s amazing. A series with his young life would be sick
@@DavidLightbringer thats why im hopping for little flashbacks from his youth that would be dope
@@DavidLightbringer love the video, love the choice they made. House Velaryon is one of my favorite houses in the series and it will be great to see them represented by minorities in western pop culture. also love the stance you took on people vehemently against it. coming from the books I was one of the people thinking Corlys was white and looked to see the same on screen. the breakdown for how it logically works for the canon was great
my biggest concern with House of The Dragon is not to do with the story itself or writing or acting...it's how it's shot, the earlier seasons of Game of Thrones were shot on 35-38mm film and converted to digital, it felt very gritty, natural and organic. The later seasons we're shot entirely digitally and left the show looking flat, shallow and lifeless, i just hope they take what made the earlier seasons of Game of Thrones so great visually and translate it to House of The Dragon. love ya work David !
Wow I didn't know about the shots on 35-38mm. Love to know it. Do you have more information about it? I tried to look it up and didn't get much
Thank you David.
Seriously! THANK YOU! All we ever ask is for ppl to be aware. And you've gone above and beyond.
You're my favorite GOT RUclipsr
No OMFGGGG! I dont mean to be so emotional..
Thank you 💖
I feel seen, I feel heard...
Fuck! Everything you just said are things we usually never expect. We just want to be included.
But you went above and beyond.
You're invited to cookout 💕
Yessss!! I’ll be there!! I know about the cookout :)
@@DavidLightbringer I'm sure you do!
But you also have a supporter for life.
I appreciate you 💕
Also, you're so fine with you're Tony Montana fit. You may not realize but your outfits are sexy af...
I hope you realize that ppl stay thirsting for your nerd costumes 💕
Watching on the replay! Really love it. Appreciate you laying down the community guidelines. Part of why I love being a mythhead!!
The Black Pearl of Braavos (and descendants), Sarella Sand, and Nettles - all are Targaryen descent with darker skin so there’s nothing wrong with the casting choices for the Velaryons. Plus, as you’ve said many times, the Great Empire had multiple ethnicities so it shouldn’t be a surprise to see people from the Valyrian peninsula look like just about anything.
I don’t think they rode or kept dragons in Valyria, they’re not mentioned as one of the 40 dragonlord families. I think they acquired the ability to ride dragons after Aenar came to Westeros due to a Targaryen marrying in/having a child with a Velaryon.
Timestamp 30:30. Yup. Of all the dragonseeds, the one whose ancestry got questioned the most in the fandom was Nettles because she has dark skin. “She doesn’t look Targaryen! 🤪” There is nothing to suggest she wasn’t a dragonseed. Just because you have Targ blood doesn’t mean a dragon will automatically like you (Quentyn), you still have to earn its trust. Nettles was smart by feeding it sheep so it wouldn’t fry her and she was able to bond enough to ride because of a dragonlord ancestor.
Yes yes yes!!!!
The issue people have is that social engineering is driving that casting choice, not any desire to be true to the books.
One of the many thing I like about Martin's writing is that he makes it very clear that the most competent people don't usually get to have the power and lead. I also appreciate that he writes women as people, but which are often completely overlooked by their peers and history.
Usually, the most cunning and manipulative people do keep on to power, but there are many times where rulers are incompetent.
It's like that in real life too though....Most people with power and reasonably competent....But the most competent rarely get to rule.
Georges writing has a very Victorian era interpretation of how life was in the middle ages
The Sea Snake looks absolutely badass. I wish his casting was ALREADY canon so that we could all enjoy his performance without the controversy.
Just started the stream.. looking forward to it!! Im brazilian and i know “Vela” means sail in portuguese. Portugal was a major player during the age of sail irl so that might be where George got their name from
Oh yeah that’s too on the nose to be an accident probably
The stream is appreciated! I'm personally very interested to see how these different timelines will go, even in the first season. I'm also interested to see how many of the people that have already "sworn off" from watching it will end up caving in if it's utterly fantastic, lol. Thank you for keeping the spark burning!
Thank you for providing a safe space to discuss the sheer beauty of seeing a Black man on a powerful dragon. The scene of Lenore on beautiful Seasmoke was great! The youthful destruction and thrill of the fight was spectacular to witness. Representation in the fantasy genre is a huge advance. Bringing all the things we buffs have loved and admired for decades to a wider audience. As a nerd coming of age in the 80’s, I didn’t have any friends to share my enthusiasm for the popular stories. I even had a good friend who criticized me for enjoying a genre where there is no diversity. I can hear her now saying “even in non-sexual fantasy we [African Americans or Black people] don’t exist.” She was right then, but I’m happy that things are changing for the better now.😘
Exactly, the core elements that make fantasy work can appeal to everyone and should belong to everyone. Most of it is taken from centuries-old mythology, so for groups of people (certain white people) try to own it in the context of modern race politics is just wrong.
Agree ❤️💯👍🏼
I'm still trying to have no expectations for House of the Dragon since I'd much rather be pleasantly surprised than disappointed, but you're making it awfully hard not to get excited, heh heh
Heh heh heh **steeples fingers**
Thank the gods for your channel, LML. I work from home and in the quiet, sometimes lonely moments your videos are quite the lifesaver.
Aww you’re welcome!
Also house Velaryon and Summer Islanders are both famous mariners and traders. I wouldn't find it that strange that they would intermarry with a powerful Summer Islander family, maybe for trade contacts/political reasons.
another great point
@@peterg9729 not sure why you felt compelled to trade in your participation in this channel for sake of making a generic right-wing jargon comment but there it is huh
Thanks you please spread this around I believe there a branch of Velaryon who are white, they cousins to the main branch.
Lol nope
I kinda like this explanation as it shows Velaryons as an actual powerful house who with skills and power of their own not just a source valerian genetic material. Corys could have also had a Bravvos grandmother and hence with a combo of bravos + summer island etc would explain why he was such a prodigy.
more than anything im excited to see the dragons, with different colors and sizes and temperaments. I hope they're all unique from one another
Thanks for the stream. I really loved The Rogue Prince and The Princess And The Queen, but after GOT I was super skeptical about the new show. But having watched your video from earlier in the week, as well as this stream, I'm quite a bit more optimistic. Dare I say, looking forward to it.
Nice to hear! It just seems like a better thing for television.
The velaryons travel widely and live as traders so summer island blood is in no way surprising. Linking two cultures of ship building and travel focus makes sense.
I didn’t know you would bring up the point was preempting the ongoing convo but appreciate the acknowledgment
Thank you!!!!
Thanks for you comments about the Velaryons castings. Seriously it means a lot, low key hyped because they are one of my favorite houses.
Thank you for the long stream! Enjoyable time with y'all as always
👍
Pretty succinct justification for the casting of the Velaryons and the Harwin Strong parentage of Laenor's children, especially if you look at it from a screenwriting point of view. It will now easily be visually established that Harwin is the father, where otherwise you would need exposition through dialogue. In a book that works better, but on screen, not so much. Look at Ned finding out the parentage of Joffrey: in the book you're inside his thoughts, so that works, but on screen they had to have him read it out loud, which looks a bit silly. And on a show like this that needs to appeal to a broad audience, there is no time for subtlety. So I like this solution.
This! And even after Ned read it out loud lots of viewers still didn't understand that Jaime was Joffrey's father and Myrcella and Tommen's too.
The acting has been amazing all across the board, but corlys actor has been incredible so far I’m glad they chose to go that route
Yes! But i really hope they give him a bit more to do next season! I havent read the books but Ive read about the character and was a bit underwhelmed from what we got in the show - not from the actor but from the script to be superclear on that point haha
Honestly I think a lot of the - 'hesitation' - to put Rhaenys or Rhaenyra on the throne stems from the fact that their children (Rhaenyra's first batch anyway) would not be Targaryens, but Velaryons. Like the Sea Snake says in the new trailer: "History does not remember blood, it remembers names."
You do not mean "Strongs"?
Thank you for your comments on diversity!!!! I support you more now than ever. I will give Grey Area’s vid a watch.
Re: the black Velaryons. There are some people from the Melanesian Islands in the Pacific who have extremely dark skin but also blond hair and even blue eyes, with no European DNA btw. And the Summer Isles are based on the Pacific islands so this could've been a possible inspiration for that look on the show.
right, because really there are no hard and fast boundaries between "races," and what we usually mean when we say "race" is actually a combination of many separate genetic markers AND cultural identity. Lighter skin evolved in several places in Eurasia and that doesn't make those separate groups "related." I'm actually talk about this in my next Mythic Concepts video, are you subbed to that Michael? Seems like you'd dig it
@@DavidLightbringer I am absolutely subscribed to it. I subscribed as soon as I heard about it. 👍
Well done again, dense content and good entertainment!
Congratulations on fostering a community that welcomes everyone who has an open mind and respect for each other.
Downtown Clownybrown said to comment after the livestream so I am. It was an informative livestream.
Caught this stream on playback & was so excited bc House Velaryon is my fav one being featured in HOTD!!!! Really getting super hype for the new show and your coverage! I was sad to see this video end. Looking forward to this Sunday’s. 🙏🏼♥️
Thank you for this informative stream. Regardless of how GOT ended, I think most people can agree that casting was not the problem. I trust that the casting is on point for this show as well. House Velaryon looks awesome and I am looking forward to watching.
You have an amazing channel. And seem to be also a good person . I hope there are more people like you in the Fandom.
Starting to think this show is going to be EPIC! great stream, praise Garth!
This stream hyped up my excitement for this new show a bit! :D really appreciated you going through all this back story. It's easy for me to get confused with all these characters and events, but this helped.
Keep up the good work. A solid consistency of good stuff man!
Catching this on the re-watch…really enjoying.
I appreciated your discussion about the casting of the Sea Snake. And I agree with you that they made a good choice, that both makes sense and will only make the story better. If they go forward with a series about his voyages, I hope they can get the same actor. I was disappointed by Rhaenys not having dark hair, because I would have appreciated the Baratheon connection. It looks like the actress has naturally dark hair. So I’m not sure why they made that choice. But it is a minor detail in the overall picture. I enjoyed the stream. And I look forward to your continued preparation for House of the Dragon!
Yeah, they will have to show the Baratheon connection another way - it’s pretty important, as we saw from the history, and again in the scene where Aemond kills Lucerys. Plus the audience already knows Baratheon so it’s logical to use them.
At the time of the dance. Rhaenys' black hair had faded into gray hair.
A little after 1:00:42, David: Corlys is in his 70s in the books. They may change it, he looks younger here.
You're probably right, although he could be in his seventies and look that young thanks to being more melanated. At minimum I'd expect him to appear weathered from his many sea travels and working outdoors building ships.
I think they’ll play fast and loose with ages to fit the story, as they probably should. Rhaenys is 20 years younger in book canon so might as well make Corlys younger
@@DavidLightbringer either way works for me. Some men are still quite formidable in their 70s.
Love your channel and only came across it a few days ago and instantly subscribed as I love how you explain the history to someone who hasn’t read the books
I've seen a few telling of families background and history, and is definitely a favourite love your approach knowledge.
Left this comment on an old Gray Area video on people getting upset with a person of African descent getting the job for Corlys Velaryon. My uncle's father moved to America as a child from a small Sicilian fisherman town. The area had a decent size port and made money off of trade, fishing, and the likes. My uncle's mother was also of Italian descent, so he would proudly tell anyone that he was 100% Italian. My aunt got him a 23andMe DNA test for his birthday. My Uncle proudly waited to get the results and was shocked to find out he was roughly 40% Italian, 25% Moroccan, 15 percent Middle Eastern, and a small percent of a number of other areas bordering the Atlantic Ocean or the Mediterranean sea. From the research, it appears that a lot of his Sicilian family married traders and merchants. So for a seafaring family to not have mixed race and darker-skinned members of their family would actually be surprising, not the other way around.
Thanks so much for adding that personal story. It makes the point I was trying to, yeah exactly. It would be weird if they never married anyone outside of royal marriages to Targaryens or cousin branches of Velaryon
@@DavidLightbringer Thank you, and I think you made that point well. I love the story because it makes me think a lot about race and our perception of race. My uncle looks Italian. He has that tan to olive skin tone with curly dark brown hair, but these traits are often seen in the Middle East and North African countries like Egypt too. I wonder how many other European/Mediterranean traits are actually just the mixing of multiple sea-faring people like Northern Africans, Middle Easterners, and Southern Europeans.
@@danielbrhel8344 so I’ve been doing a lot of research into ancient migrations and origins lately. The “Mediterranean look” is essentially a remnant of a population of “Anatolian farmers” who spread out from Anatolia and the Middle East around 7,000 BCE and mostly replaced the Neolithic hunter-gatherer population to become the dominant one across Eurasia. Then in 3500 BCE or so the Proto Indo European steppe peoples spread out from the steppe north of the Black Sea, not quite replacing Anatolian farmers but def leaving a dominant imprint on the genome - and this effect is more pronounced the farther north you go. For example people around the Mediterranean will have over half Anatolian farmer, while in the UK it would be a small % with PIE-related ancestry being dominant. Anatolian farmers were “somewhere in the middle” pigment wise, and the Mediterranean look is essentially their legacy. Oh and farming. That too
@@DavidLightbringer That is very interesting I have watched your Kali video on Mythic Concepts along with about 90% of the videos on this channel so I have heard bits and pieces of what you are talking about. But did not know about the Anatolia farmers, I actually had to look Anatolia up. All very interesting stuff, that really makes it obvious how uneducated people with certain race ideas truly are.
I'm always [🌈 text] PROUD [/🌈text] when my favorite RUclipsrs come out as open minded and unabashedly antifash. I love you, \\m//
Haha, you know sometimes I feel like “yeah, I’m doing something good, using my microphone the right way,” and sometimes I feel like I’m just an opinionated guy with ADHD who says whatever comes to his mind with little filter. Ha. Appreciate it.
Really enjoyed your stream David! Good work sir 👍!
31:33 RESPECT! 💪🏾❤️💪From a Torres Strait Islander Down Under (Australia's other Indigenous peeps - ask your Aussie Gumah, she'll know),
Hell yeah Steve. Cheers man
I’m stoked for this show! I love the lore and history of fire and blood and of course asoiaf. I hope it’s great. Loved the recent video you made. Thanks lml 🙏🏻
That picture of Vhagar really puts into perspective the fight between Rhaenys and Aegon and Aemond 🤯
Great stream! Sorry I missed it live!
Dope stream LML! Keep grindin bro 💯
This is dope, love reliving Fire and Blood with you!
I have to say, I COMPLETELY agree with you about the decision to cast black actors for House Velaryon!! And I'm usually one of those STAY TRUE TO THE BOOKS YOU HEATHENS kinda person. But I absolutely LOVED this decision!!!! 👏👍💯😊
Keep up the House of the Dragon streams’ Lucy! Looking forward to each of them
I think it is very strange that Laenor was completely fine with some other mans child inheriting his families vast wealth, lands, titles, and navy. I get that he's into men, but you would think he would at least tried to give Rhaenyra one or two true born offspring. Especially since his line was destined to be kings. After that job was done him and Rhaenyra could have gone on doing their own thing on High Tide and Kings landing respectively.
those are good points, and we'll have to see how the show decides to tell that part of the story.
2nd time watching you man. Gotta subscribe you keeping it real man. Love the content especially around 30 minute mark.
1:21:00 timestamp so i can resume watching later
Edit: Finished it. Great video as usually, looking forward to the next one.
AND this counts a comment so do it up
“So when can I marry the princess?”
“Everywhere is booked up and what with COVID they’ve got a huge backlog of bookings they’ve got to do first. Sorry but it will happen at some point in the future”
Loved this! Thank you!
I'm optimistic house of the dragon will be good. Less dense and more complete than asoiaf. A screenwriters dream.
Exactly. It’s just better suited for adaption. Almost like Martin wrote it that way!
@@DavidLightbringer I feel like that and knight of the seven kingdoms would be a screenwriters wet dream. Thanks for doing what you do. Hardest working man on RUclips.
Thanks! Great stream.
Is this lml’s first stream with no mention of moon meteors? Just teasing, awesome as always!
Might have been!
Love how when shows or movies include women or ANY KIND of people of color, folks just assume it’s “wokeness” 🙄😂. Thank you SO much for the LOGICAL cannon explanation. The racists and bigots gon be big mad 😂😂😂😂, but just for the record, I’m black, my husband is white. Both my mixed race kids have light skin and blue eyes. My daughter is honey blonde and my son has light brown hair. My daughter married a dark skinned black man, and they have 3 children. One is light skinned while the others are browner, but not dark. All have dark hair, two have curly hair and one has straight hair. All have grey or green eyes. All look mixed race black, but closer to black than white. My son is engaged to a brown haired, blue eyed white girl. They have a 3 year old who looks white, but has thick, blonde curls. My point is, as with my son’s son, it’s not uncommon to look white when your add mixture is 3/4 white and 1/4 black. Just as with my daughter’s kids, it’s not uncommon to look black when your add mixture is 3/4 black, and 1/4 white. I really wouldn’t think twice about Laenor’s kids looking white.
As always. Great content.
The idea of the Valyrian being originally unnatural black reminds me of Tiste Andii in Malazan, but in that series they are more elven like.
Anomander Rake is very Bloodraven / Azor Ahai too huh
@@DavidLightbringer Oh yeah, i haven't thought of it that far, but i can se he shares the same imagery with both of them. Great ravens follow him and are his spy network kind of like Bloodraven, and he can change into a literal dragon hehe . But also some similarities with the Azor Ahai (spoilers for the main series), him naming his husk sword Vengeance/Grief after his brother's died and then he wields Dragnipur which has the soul of someone really important to him trapped in it.
I didn't think you were gonna answer my comment, I really like your theories about asoiaf.
I gotta say I love your analysis and even better we get Old Man Voice and Reading Rheagar every so often, Keep it up LML!! Oh and I love the music You and your Cousin made. I am also a musician and dig it! Also where has Grey Area been for the last 2 months?
2:42:00 got distracted by rhyming to notice “ a fair at spice town” aka affair at Spicer town. This is clues about Tywin and Tyrion’s real mother.
Preaching,great content,glad I found this channel 💯💯
Hell yeah welcome to the fam
Tommy Vacetti, you got some quality banter. Especially the bit calling out the people complaining about black Valeryons, came at it with logic and politeness. Well done sir
The best analysis Ive heard on the net and trust me Ive seen a lot. The Velaryons looked bad ass walking in the feast in Kings Landing dragon riders and overall looking like their ish together.👌 Poor Ser Geoffrey had no idea he was pokeing the bear, and im still confused as to what cause all the yelling at the start of the commotion. Where was Prince Daemon in the midst of all this? 🤔
First to take the Black 🖤
My original thought on the Valeryion change was "its a civil war it's supposed to be confusing" but you make a great point look at Rome. A Roman citizen could vary from Italian, Gaul or German, Spaniards, to even Middle Eastern/Persian and even more so after Julius Ceasars reign point being though with an empire that vacuums up a ton of other cultures in time they become apart of the culture. Valeryions being sailors makes sense they would 'expand there horizons' for lack of a better phrase. Just starting off but thank-you for the stream LmL and The Sea Snake is by far the coolest character in my view.
Greetings Mr. Lightbringer,
I am currently working on an paper for my Magic, Witchcraft, and Religion class in university. It’s about the symbolism of religions from ASoIaF to real world religions and/or myth. I would love to have you as a source, but my professor will only accept sources that have been published in writing. Do you have any papers about this topic published on any website?
Thank you!
Just my Wordpress blog - it has most of my theories and major essays. lucifermeanslightbringer.com
Damn that music was good! I was waiting for George Clinton and Bootsie Collins to start dropping the beat, 😄 We want the funk, gotta have that funk!
Just found your channel! Love it! ❤
Great breakdown and analysis man!!!
There should be Roberts Rebellion prequel, that would be a very cool show in my opinion. Everyone already knows all the characters and shit. It would be awesome to see Tywin during that series too
Casting black actors is the show fixing George problem for not being diverse enough... I think it's the best thing the show did
You **might** even say it’s helping to fix a genre-wide issue with portraying medieval societies as homogeneously white
Exactly like you said in the video ... I may even go further and say this was the perfect idea George could come with to fix his racial world building in westrrose ... But I'm not sure whose idia is this but it's more than perfect
Thank you LML for sharing this awesome stream!🙏🏻👌🏻💪🏼🫶🏻🙋🏼♀️🇨🇦
Thank you for this. I love how you’re straight up about it. I hope more people watch this.
On another note,
In the books, I actually thought that they were saying her kids were bastards to discredit her, originally. I clearly missed some
stuff before. Sometimes when I watch your analysis or Preston’s, I’m like “am I even reading the same book” lol
That may be the case actually! It seems like they are bastards but that could also be maester propaganda. I read a theory about it yesterday saying it’s not quite the open and shut case it seems at first.
And you’re quite welcome!
@@DavidLightbringer oh! Okay. I really thought that’s what was going on. I don’t trust the Maesters and I really like Rhaenyras character :p so I figured maybe I was being biased. But I don’t know now. The choice they made for the show and they way you lay it out, it seems pretty convincing that her children will end up being Strongs after all. I guess we’ll see lol
Those faux Dreads are shocking. American TV and movies have a problem with creating authentic looking locks IMO. However I can't wait for this show
Minty said the wigs need to be better too. Of course that's a GoT tradition, to have bad wigs
@@DavidLightbringer haha true. Part of the charm I guess lol
Leanors' wig is even worse. It looks as if Leanor had grown long, thick locks and then just hacked them off above the shoulder. The volume is all wrong!
I Have to watch!!! I missed this. 😉
I fucking love the casting of the Valaryon's as a black/bi racial family. Despite the in cannon explanations of the geographical location of Valyria and the sea faring tradition of house Valaryon, the distinguishable difference between the Targaryens and the Valaryon's will make the story much easier to follow for non-book readers. It'll make the plot flow better purely from a confusion standpoint. Not to mention Corlys looks fucking badass!
Yeah that’s what I was saying, if not for this change then we’d have like 15 pale people in pale wigs and it’s going to get confusing
Yeah it really makes the Velaryon house stand out and gives them their own aesthetic.
Loved it! Thanks
"The rest of us who wanna enjoy nice things have to step around your bulls***!"... Brilliant.✊🏾
I mean that's essentially what it amounts to. I can take on the specific arguments and all, but it comes down this.
In a Nutshell.
Love the content, btw.
House of the dragon has done the integration of another race into their story really well.
I think what the rings of power has got wrong is why people are even black. The only reason black people exist is because they needed protection from lots of sunlight and black skin does that. There's no where on middle earth where people would need to have their skin like that. Also the lore is that the races were created in one area, they should either be all black, all Asian, all white and so on.
In game of thrones House velarion came from another area so it's entirely possible. I think this shows the level of care that the two shows are putting in. Rings of power are putting black people in randomly for the sake of it while house of the dragon had intelligently used asoiaf lore so they can create good diversity in their show. Good on the show runners.
Stoked for the dance! Team Black! Death to the Greens! 🐲🔥
Thank you for separating the difference of valerian and verlayons!!! People need to hear there.
Just imagine if the brown-skinned African they worship were portrayed as a red-headed white guy. I'm sure they'd be completely outraged. (Poe's law warning, this is satirical)
YES! SO RIGHT I AGREE!! MIGHT NOT BE PERFECT, BUT I AGREE ! SEA SNAKE IS A BOSS IN HIS OWN RIGHT!!! MOTHER OF THE CONQUER ❤️💯
Such a thoughtful and educated analysis of the race situation. Props!
2:50:50 two fingers (again) also with Davos at Blackwater.
Amen brother ❤️💯
Question about the algorithm: does replying to other comments help just as much as non-reply comments?
Haha I think so, but RUclips is very non-transparent about that.
Much respect for shutting down the negative comments on the casting of black people! 💯
Yeah no problem, it’s basic human decency IMO but I’m happy to clear that bar. Propaganda has radicalized people to the point where they just act insane about this shit. Cheers.
Thanks for always being an ally and calling out deplorable behavior. I love how quickly your admins deleted the negative comments.
I’m gonna be completely honest. I didn’t like the casting of the velaryons at first because I felt it was diversity for diversity’s sake. As a Hispanic man I was all for diversity but I felt like the show runners just wanted to seem more woke and casted a family that was important to the show to be seen as woke. I thought it was a lazy tactic to do since the velaryon were missing in the original show but when I saw the pictures I fell in love with corlys’ look and their clothes and everything. I actually started to really like the idea of it after seeing them and hearing the show runners and their decision to do this change. And even after hearing ur explanation and reasoning behind it. It made sense in an in universe perspective and I am looking forward to seeing corlys and his badassery in this show!
Cool that’s awesome to hear. In the end any change an adaptation makes has to make sense, the ethnic background of a character is no different from any other change. It’s all in how it’s done and integrated with whatever other stuff is going on
@@DavidLightbringer yes I assumed it wasn’t going to be an explanation to the change but I am more than satisfied and intrigued by it right now
Love the snarky opening. Excellent!
The Conquest would be an amazing show !!!
Honestly, House of the Dragon looks more promising than Rings of Power. I really hope that GGRM, knuckles down on the writers incase they pull any shit like they did with the later seasons of GOT.
But over all, the race and the nonsense about black skinned valryians is such a non issue. Sure I am grieved not to see weird veiny silvery albinos with alien features, and it would be cool to see people wear contacts or digitally change their eye colours to look purple and otherworldly. But most the actors seem solid and know what they're doing, I have a bit of hope for this series.
The seed is Strong
Cant tell you how much i love yer GOT cover. Do you have it posted anywhere so i listen and share it with my friends?
No I have resisted doing that to keep it fresh for when I need it. What you can do is find the moment it starts on the stream, and from desktop, click the share button and click the box that says “start at (time stamp)”
Keep it going!!
Seeing this 2 years later is so interesting because I know every scene 😅😅😅