To me it sounds like the Empire of the Hand was hurt during the Vong War and used the opportunity to hide and operate in the shadows, maintaining ties to the planets it held while "officially" the Chiss and Human members of the Hand were integrated into the Ascendency. I guess they acted similarly to the Sith prior to the prequels until they needed to reveal themselves.
@@lynngreen7978 Ah, my mistake. I could have sworn the Empire of the Hand 501st and the original 501st were always seperate. But it appears that they were in fact the same unit that remained loyal to emperor Fel. Apologies.
@@vengeancekrios5047 No problem. I was of that same impression. That Vader's Fist was largely deactivated - with retired members reforming under Jacen. I simply assumed that the EoH 501st and the Fel Dynasty unit were the same. I was questioning if you knew more on that subject - as there are hints of the 83 year gap to be found if you look closely.
@@lynngreen7978 SPOILER for "Choices of One" In "Choices of One", the Hand of Judgement- a group of stormtroopers who deserted from the Empire- were recruited by Thrawn to train new stormtroopers (for the Hand), including aliens. Thrawn had found them not only to be very competent soldiers, but also open to work with nonhumans, and their actions had been commended to him by one of his Troukree agents, Vaantaar. Realising this might be their best chance at making the galaxy a better and safer place, they took the offer. When discussing how to name their future trainees' unit, the group came up with the 501. Have some quotes from the book for clarification: "You misunderstand me, Squad Commander.I don't want you to fight. I want you to train." - Thrawn "The Empire that Senior Captain Thrawn is carving into the evil that pervades our worlds is not the Empire you chose to leave. His is an Empire of justice and dignity for all beings. His is an Empire we gladly serve. One we are willing to die for." - Vaantaar "I think we should name the new unit the Five- Oh- First," [Grave] said. "I thought Vader had that one locked down," Quiller pointed out. "I somehow doubt Vader will ever know," Grave said. "I'm sure not going to tell him." "Wise choice," Marcross said. "Any particular reason you want that unit number?" Grave shrugged. "They're supposed to be the best. If we're going to take this job, we might as well aim high." I hope that explains that :)
For some reason this doesn’t seem to be posting for me. Well, third times a charm. Great video! These guys deserved more attention. The quotes are great - a few of them I did not even know. I have a theory of my own on what happened. Around 28 ABY(which appears to be when this all went down), a second clone of Thrawn was born. Luke and Mara mention in Vision of the Future that Thrawn May well have another one somewhere. This clone takes control of the Hand, and brings the Ascendancy into the Hand. They are more receptive of Thrawn due to the danger of the Vong and Killiks. Because the Hand has been secret for so long, Thrawn wanted it to be again. He tried to make it look like the Hand was gone, creating a cover story - what Formbi told Luke. Formbi’s comment about the Hand rising again if necessary was meant to tell Luke that he would get help if he asked for it. It always bothered me that they made it sound like the Hand just turned into more Ascendancy. What about the Stromma? Or the Eickaries? Or the Troukree? They did not join the Ascendancy, so what, the Hand just said “See ya latter, bye. Good luck defending yourselves.”? That does not sound like them.
It would be really interesting to see the Fel Empire with Chiss star destroyers and clawcrafts and all that. Theres a pretty huge connection between the Hand, Empire, and Chiss thanks to the Fel dynasty so you have to wonder if theres a network of alliances. Another note is the fact that a Chiss diplomat was promoted to Moff in the legacy era
Great video and would love a Fel dynasty video. As I guess we know that Jagged made the leader of the remnant an elected position but we know that he must have become emperor at some point and Jaina his empress as there were several generations of Fel leaders by Legacy comics and the Imperial Knights were started by Jaina though they suck.
@@gorvarhadgarson5227 Yeah no shit, she is a direct descendant of Anakin. It's Han and Leia = Jaina and Jag Fel = their Son and some woman = Roan Fel and then his daughter Marasiah.
Quality Autism So in a way, Vader overthrew Palpatine, since Vader's descendents ended up leading the Galactic Empire... "It's like poetry, it rhymes."
The most likely explanation for the Empire of the Hand's "vanishing" is that the New Jedi Order authors simply didn't do their homework. They didn't read Zahn's books, and didn't recognize the distinction between the Chiss Ascendency and the Hand, probably figuring "Thrawn's bunch" were one and the same. Considering the mess that was the Dark Nest trilogy, this was really dumb. Friggin' Star Wars Zerg expies are not more sympathetic than Chiss! I wish Timothy Zahn himself had been able to write a post-Vong War novel before Legends was ditched. He would have cleared up the entire matter.
so some of the humans were absorbed into the chis, but the empire of the hand still ruled or at least policed its old member worlds after Thrawn died. the chis were happy to welcome a few humans and what was left of the empire of the hands military. the infrastructure thrawn built was likely pretty good and while the chis didnt want to rule that part of space, the empire of the hand was already set up to do it, with the promise that they would help when the Vong showed up. in the larger galaxy the chis would pretend they didnt have close ties with the empire of the hand because its a good idea to keep your allies a secret. people like Jag would serve in the chis empire but also he was prolly the ruler of the empire of the hand making him a very powerful member of the chis. as a society the chis seem pretty on top of it, so seems like a good deal.
I always had the idea that Jagged was able to take command of the Hand after he ‘retires’ from being Emperor of the Remnant. Than, after some issue or whatever inside of the Remnant, Jagged combined them. I would imagine given he and jaina’s more liberalized existence, I could see part of the confederacy breaking down and the more chiss populated planets joining the Chiss proper, while the rest stay with the Remnant Also, just because Jagged is in a Phalanx doesnt mean too much. Our guy could’ve joined Thrawn’s phalanx
You’re helping me choose the Legends books I’m missing. Thank you. I also wanted to ask… besides the Short Stories and the Graphic Novel, do you know which Legends Books contain The Lost Tribe of the Sith?
I think the Hand's fate is similar to the Holy Roman Empire. It started as a normal state, led by an emperor. But gradually decentralized until it became a loose alliance of states. The Hand could be an alliance of sorts now instead of a genuine political entity. Although I have no idea what it is in the Fel empire now.
This is why Legends will always be parsects better than Disney trilogy and why Disney trilogy is an expensive fanfic. This is why Legends is the real sequel trilogy because Legends rocks even with its problems and why Legends is the real Star Wars NOT the Disney trilogy.
Last time I was this early the Sith were only a single species instead of a force philosophy!
To me it sounds like the Empire of the Hand was hurt during the Vong War and used the opportunity to hide and operate in the shadows, maintaining ties to the planets it held while "officially" the Chiss and Human members of the Hand were integrated into the Ascendency. I guess they acted similarly to the Sith prior to the prequels until they needed to reveal themselves.
The 501st were loyal to Roan I during the Imperial Civil War. Suggests the Hand Empire merged with the Remnant as the new Galactic Empire.
Different 501st.
@@vengeancekrios5047 Are we sure?
@@lynngreen7978 Ah, my mistake. I could have sworn the Empire of the Hand 501st and the original 501st were always seperate. But it appears that they were in fact the same unit that remained loyal to emperor Fel.
Apologies.
@@vengeancekrios5047 No problem. I was of that same impression. That Vader's Fist was largely deactivated - with retired members reforming under Jacen.
I simply assumed that the EoH 501st and the Fel Dynasty unit were the same. I was questioning if you knew more on that subject - as there are hints of the 83 year gap to be found if you look closely.
@@lynngreen7978 SPOILER for "Choices of One"
In "Choices of One", the Hand of Judgement- a group of stormtroopers who deserted from the Empire- were recruited by Thrawn to train new stormtroopers (for the Hand), including aliens. Thrawn had found them not only to be very competent soldiers, but also open to work with nonhumans, and their actions had been commended to him by one of his Troukree agents, Vaantaar. Realising this might be their best chance at making the galaxy a better and safer place, they took the offer. When discussing how to name their future trainees' unit, the group came up with the 501. Have some quotes from the book for clarification:
"You misunderstand me, Squad Commander.I don't want you to fight. I want you to train." - Thrawn
"The Empire that Senior Captain Thrawn is carving into the evil that pervades our worlds is not the Empire you chose to leave. His is an Empire of justice and dignity for all beings. His is an Empire we gladly serve. One we are willing to die for." - Vaantaar
"I think we should name the new unit the Five- Oh- First," [Grave] said. "I thought Vader had that one locked down," Quiller pointed out. "I somehow doubt Vader will ever know," Grave said. "I'm sure not going to tell him." "Wise choice," Marcross said. "Any particular reason you want that unit number?" Grave shrugged. "They're supposed to be the best. If we're going to take this job, we might as well aim high."
I hope that explains that :)
For some reason this doesn’t seem to be posting for me. Well, third times a charm.
Great video! These guys deserved more attention. The quotes are great - a few of them I did not even know.
I have a theory of my own on what happened.
Around 28 ABY(which appears to be when this all went down), a second clone of Thrawn was born. Luke and Mara mention in Vision of the Future that Thrawn May well have another one somewhere. This clone takes control of the Hand, and brings the Ascendancy into the Hand. They are more receptive of Thrawn due to the danger of the Vong and Killiks.
Because the Hand has been secret for so long, Thrawn wanted it to be again. He tried to make it look like the Hand was gone, creating a cover story - what Formbi told Luke. Formbi’s comment about the Hand rising again if necessary was meant to tell Luke that he would get help if he asked for it.
It always bothered me that they made it sound like the Hand just turned into more Ascendancy. What about the Stromma? Or the Eickaries? Or the Troukree? They did not join the Ascendancy, so what, the Hand just said “See ya latter, bye. Good luck defending yourselves.”? That does not sound like them.
_"But it was so.. artistically done!"_
I’ve come to realise the new canon Thrawn is equally as compelling to read as his old ‘self’ was.
I love the aspect about legends that we move past the black and white and we start to get more interesting political aspects and points of view.
It would be really interesting to see the Fel Empire with Chiss star destroyers and clawcrafts and all that. Theres a pretty huge connection between the Hand, Empire, and Chiss thanks to the Fel dynasty so you have to wonder if theres a network of alliances. Another note is the fact that a Chiss diplomat was promoted to Moff in the legacy era
Always love Unkown regions lore.
Would you consider doing videos on more meta aspects such as major retcons to characters (such as Vergere) or factions (like Mandalorians)?
I'd like to see that, too.
Great video and would love a Fel dynasty video. As I guess we know that Jagged made the leader of the remnant an elected position but we know that he must have become emperor at some point and Jaina his empress as there were several generations of Fel leaders by Legacy comics and the Imperial Knights were started by Jaina though they suck.
Also Marasiah looks a lot like Leia so there is some Skywalker blood in there.
@@gorvarhadgarson5227 Or Padme depending on the artist.
Disagree in the "suck", but otherwise agree.
@@gorvarhadgarson5227 Yeah no shit, she is a direct descendant of Anakin. It's Han and Leia = Jaina and Jag Fel = their Son and some woman = Roan Fel and then his daughter Marasiah.
Quality Autism So in a way, Vader overthrew Palpatine, since Vader's descendents ended up leading the Galactic Empire... "It's like poetry, it rhymes."
The most likely explanation for the Empire of the Hand's "vanishing" is that the New Jedi Order authors simply didn't do their homework. They didn't read Zahn's books, and didn't recognize the distinction between the Chiss Ascendency and the Hand, probably figuring "Thrawn's bunch" were one and the same. Considering the mess that was the Dark Nest trilogy, this was really dumb. Friggin' Star Wars Zerg expies are not more sympathetic than Chiss!
I wish Timothy Zahn himself had been able to write a post-Vong War novel before Legends was ditched. He would have cleared up the entire matter.
I ALWAYS love your legends material!!!
I just have to say again that I love love love your channel!
So thats answered my question from the last video thanks.
so some of the humans were absorbed into the chis, but the empire of the hand still ruled or at least policed its old member worlds after Thrawn died. the chis were happy to welcome a few humans and what was left of the empire of the hands military. the infrastructure thrawn built was likely pretty good and while the chis didnt want to rule that part of space, the empire of the hand was already set up to do it, with the promise that they would help when the Vong showed up. in the larger galaxy the chis would pretend they didnt have close ties with the empire of the hand because its a good idea to keep your allies a secret. people like Jag would serve in the chis empire but also he was prolly the ruler of the empire of the hand making him a very powerful member of the chis. as a society the chis seem pretty on top of it, so seems like a good deal.
Great video!!!!
I always had the idea that Jagged was able to take command of the Hand after he ‘retires’ from being Emperor of the Remnant. Than, after some issue or whatever inside of the Remnant, Jagged combined them.
I would imagine given he and jaina’s more liberalized existence, I could see part of the confederacy breaking down and the more chiss populated planets joining the Chiss proper, while the rest stay with the Remnant
Also, just because Jagged is in a Phalanx doesnt mean too much. Our guy could’ve joined Thrawn’s phalanx
You’re helping me choose the Legends books I’m missing. Thank you.
I also wanted to ask… besides the Short Stories and the Graphic Novel, do you know which Legends Books contain The Lost Tribe of the Sith?
For them the big thing would be Fate of the Jedi
I think the Hand's fate is similar to the Holy Roman Empire. It started as a normal state, led by an emperor. But gradually decentralized until it became a loose alliance of states. The Hand could be an alliance of sorts now instead of a genuine political entity. Although I have no idea what it is in the Fel empire now.
Great video, I love the expanded universe and it will always be the real continuation of the original movie trilogy, not the mess that Disney made.
Neat.
This is why Legends will always be parsects better than Disney trilogy and why Disney trilogy is an expensive fanfic. This is why Legends is the real sequel trilogy because Legends rocks even with its problems and why Legends is the real Star Wars NOT the Disney trilogy.
Yes.
What is your wildest speculation about thrawn in Disney cannon after he was kidnapped by space whales?
Hi
i wish the movies carried on with the chiss and the empire of the hand😢 instead of the current female palpatine garbage storyline