Most people probably forget that Mandorlian Legend Canderous Ordo encountered one of the Vong's scout ships during his time in Mandalorian Navy, he talks about it in Kotor 1.
The Yuuzahn Vong certainly had planned their galactic invasion, they had observed the SW galaxy for years and knew of the various weakness's of the Republic and Empire and chose a pretty oppurtune time of relative peace and slight demilitarization and as you said retirement of older officers and lack of experienced ones. Also the New Republic being plagued similarly by the problems of the pre-Empire Republic. In a way the Star Wars Galaxy post 25 ABY reminds me of Post War Europe circa 1918 to 39, relative demilitarization, political upheaval in the face of the Great Depression, relief and reconstruction efforts, corruption and lack of experienced officers and effective military forces that could face the might of a rising Germany. Not a direct correlation, but it has similarities to me.
The Vong had scouts in the Galaxy since the time of Knights of the old Republic. There is even a conversation with one of the characters who encountered some. Though he had no idea
@@megagamernick9883 Canderous Ordo. I love that story he tells honestly, it really puts into perspective just how long the Vong were planning the invasion, especially when you could consider Maul's death battle with a Vong warrior at the edge of Known Space as the Vong sending out single warriors to seek out the strongest opponents in the entire Galaxy to continue planning
The Yuuzhan Vong's ability to infiltrate societies with spies and saboteurs is the biggest advantage they had during the invasion. Their agents broke down shield generators, fermented planetary unrest, and turn local and galactic forces against each other. You make great points in this video, but I really really am firm on this point that the spying and sabotage, as well as their political manipulation was the biggest advantage the Vong had in the first year or two of the invasion.
That's an interesting thought, since so many people argue the empire would've had a much easier time. While I can see how the massive military build up and use of hard target destroyers (hello Death Star!) could've helped, the empire was highly repressive and not very good at keeping popular opinion on its side. Hence why I think Thrawn isn't as much of a genius as people make him out to be; he apparently saw the empire as the only way to defeat the Yuuzhan Vong and enabled the planet killing of other imperial officers and their general callousness.
Bear in mind too that early on in the war the only way that any military action was taken was kinda down to what was basically a mutiny with Admiral Kre’fey essentially telling Borsk “either let us do our jobs without your interference or I’ll leave and take as much of the fleet as I can to conquer some unknown regions planets and build up our forces whilst we watch you burn.” Granted the destruction of Ithor kinda ended that autonomy but it was arguably the most productive the fleet was until the fall of Coruscant.
The yuuzhan vong were definitely the kind of threat that couldn't be stopped with traditional methods. Forcing their enemies to develop new ideas and eventually defeat them.
And that's a great deal of why they're awesome. While I think Thrawn is somewhat overrated, I hope the Grysk can give a similar challenge to the post episode nine governments.
Because they had been planning and preparing to invade atleast a thousand years before they actually did it, we know for a fact that Yuuzhan Vong Scout ships had already been present in the Unknown Regions of the Galaxy as far back as the Knights Of The Old Republic Era and maybe even further!
8:30 It's also because the Vong were significantly outnumbered by the republic and it's allies. However they were far superior warriors and better equipment. When you have an advantage in quality but a disadvantage in quantity what you want is to pin down your opponent in a large battle and destroy the bulk of their larger force with your stronger ones. Since in a long war losses will occur even with superior quality due to accidents, ambushes or just luck. The Vong couldn't so easily replace those losses. So Ackbar's main goal was to prevent the Vong from getting the conclusive victory they wanted. Making sure to keep fighting and make the Vong take losses but ensure they never can take out the majority of the force in one swoop. The republic and it's allies also have the support of the people. While they had some trouble here and there it's clear that the people don't want to live under the Vong so they could take hold of all the resources the galaxy had to offer. While the Vong were invaders so they only had what they brought with them and had to spend considerable resources terraforming worlds.
Amazing analysis honestly. Ackbar and the other like-minded leaders basically forced the Vong into a war of attrition that they couldn't ever afford because of, like you said, only having the supplies from the planets they burned and what they brought with them on their looooooooong travels through the Intergalactic Void
@@ChrisVillagomez But also they had a smaller army and in a long war losses will mount on both sides even if one has superior soldiers cause of random things. In a long war you will be ambushed and will get caught in bad situations. If you have more soldiers to throw at it you can afford more losses. The big thing you want to avoid is a decisive battle where you lose almost all your army all at once. The bigger the battle the less quantity matters. In a big battle a superior quality army can beat one several times it's size quite easily. However in a large war where you have to spread out your armies not having many soldiers is a big handicap. Also with them spread out you're vulnerable to pockets of them being surrounded and crushed by the enemy. Even if they are strong soldiers being outnumbered over 1000 to 1 and cut off from supplies and reinforcements they won't win.
@@ChrisVillagomez If you have a war between an army superior in quality and one superior in quantity the strategy for the quantitalively superior one is to force a decisive battle as quickly as possible while the quantitaively superior one wants to avoid that while still engaging the enemy. I would think the republican leaders would also do push on a very large front to keep the pressure on. To make sure the Vong had to keep fighting and couldn't focus on regaining their strength. The republic had a lot of troops and resources ready to go that they could call on so they can keep a large front war going for quite some time. Basically going with the Soviet war doctrine of deep battle. Taking bites out of the enemy's territory one by one trying to keep them off guard. If the enemy is moving you spend resources on defense to make them take losses while pulling the majority of your forces out. The ones holding the line will be sacrificed but the defensive advantage means they will likely trade equally with the enemy. If you make the front large then you can concentrate your forces to take bites without sacrificing the rest which the numerically inferior enemy can't do, they can't be strong everywhere. What you want to avoid though is taking a strong point head on as that will end badly for you. You want to make sure to never engage them at their full strength.
@@Jungoguy I don't think it would've been as one sided as people like to think. As the video touched on, the Yuuzhan Vong used plenty of infiltrators to foment rebellion and make allied factions. Imperial oppression may've kept some people in line, but a lot would depend on the totalitarian empire being more terrifying than the Vong. That is... very hard to do. That and it could lead to greater problems. With the two main governments being a choice between A. A militarist theocracy that worships pain and B. a totalitarian tyranny that uses planet killers against its own people, I could see people mass defecting if they hear either the Empire or Yuuzhan Vong are bringing their weaponry around. Areas away from the fighting refusing to help the empire till they get less repression. A good portion of the Star Wars fandom seems to think the only way to destroy the empire is military might, but the Rebellion showed that a much smaller enterprise can take it down. That and, if Plaps is such a genius, why didn't he defeat the rebellion? They were smaller and less brutal then the Vong, surely Palps would've crushed them! Maybe because open brutality isn't the way you win wars. Not in he long term at least.
Just wanted to say I really appreciate your channel, I don't really like most star wars youtubers because so many are very opinionated without knowing enough lore. As a massive star wars nerd i was beginning to think I'd never find someone who actually had read and remembered more books, comics, and other star wars media than I had, and it's wonderful to actually learn new things and new opinions on star wars subjects. Keep making these excellent videos!
If the Republic had reacted faster, I believe they would have beaten the Vong at Vector Prime. I also believe Anakin Solo would have survived, Jacen Solo wouldn't have fallen to the dark side, and Mara Jade wouldn't have died.
kinda new to this SW stories after the movies, so just to say that just until 11:02 that's what exactly what i was thinking of, making an analogy of real world WW2, just replace the new republic with French and the Yuuzhans with German , and you see exactly the same pattern
In Swtor was it unrealistic that the Sith Empire was able to win so many victories during the Great Galactic War when they must of had a much smaller military, industry, access to resources, and generally a much mich smaller population and territory? I mean come on the Sith Empire must of had only a few thousand worlds at best after recovering from the massacre of the Hyperspace war and as soon as they declared total war they would of been overrun extremely quickly. Atleast a million worlds galactic nation against a thousand world interstellar nation is just a stomp from a realistic perspective. Even with Sith warriors they are outnumbered and outresourced badly.
Sure, that’s why people love the Sith.. it’s the feel good story of butchery where the underdog somehow beats the vastly more capable galactic power.. But yes galactic domination impossible, the attack on coruscant (while masterful) would of only temporarily crippled the republic.. Which is why they brokered for peace afterwards.. knowing that the Republic would reorganize on another capital world & drive the Sith forces back to where the came.. Now yes the Republic has its problem but as did the Sith.. Corrupted & ineffective oversight for the Republic vs the endless Power machinations which befall every sith formation..
Just cover the various timelines, preferably as far back as possible, that could’ve contributed to the Yuuzhan Vongs’ exodus from their previous galaxy; did it go as far back as the centennials who built center point station? Could the Vong come there sooner? And more…
Most of the events that have contributed to Vong's invasion are covered in supplemental material like the Essential Guides to Warfare and Droids. Same with the Star Wars Droids cartoon and the Lando Calrissian trilogy by L. Neil Smith.
Yuuzhan Vong, they probably outnumber the Convenant(I mean, who knows, Star Wars was never very good at numbers), and their technology is also generally better.
I wouldn't dislike the Vong stories so much if they weren't made to look like the edgiest edge lords to ever be on edge circa 2008. It's just so dumb. Like the writers were like, "You know how everyone will know these guys are scarey? LET'S MAKE EVERYTHING THEY USE SPIKEY AS FUCK!"
Give me this movie Hollywood! You could do early make a trilogy of movies based off these stories. Look I'll do basic premises here 1. Galactic Civilization begins breaking down with disease, war and famine breaking out everywhere, as well as political extremism. We find out at the end the Vong are behind it all... Invasion begins 2. War movie where we watch Galactic Civilization fall completely. Movie ends like Rogue One with an idea of hope 3. Rebels fighting off the Vong and eventually driving them out but have this movie have a timeskip of maybe 3-4 years
I can see it so clearly, it's painful. The Fall of Coruscant would have been an amazing Second Act, All is Lost moment. Luke in full bloom as a Jedi master of a New Order, Republic and Imperial forces fighting only to have to join together, the victory and happy ending with them uniting under the Galactic Alliance. (Until the next big crisis, but they don't call it Star Vibes, and this hypothetical Episode 9 would still be an amazing send-off to this entire era of galactic history that started in TPM.)
@chasehedges6775 just because u don't like something doesn't make it dead. If the whole world stopped liking star wars, they would stop making star wars content cuz they wouldn't be making any money off it. I don't like EVERYTHING in star wars, but that doesn't mean I'm going to hate on it or declare that it's dead. You probably aren't aware of this, but ppl were saying the same sht for about a decade after the prequels dropped in the early 2000's. It wasn't until recently that they started to be appreciated. The Clone wars series was absolutely hated too, and ashoka was so trashed ppl accused George Lucas of purposely destroying his own franchise. Trust me, this hate band wagon your on is nothing new
How powerful do you think the true Sith Empire could of been had the orginal Kotor 3 idea of the Sith being extremely truly chaos levels of evil remained and not the Swtor Sith Empire we got?
Honestly, the SWTOR Sith feel more like the Brotherhood of Darkness than Sith despite having one leader. I feel like the Chaos levels of Sith would have been much more interesting in the long run. Then again, I'm not a story writer.
While that sounds good in concept it's kind of impossible to actually execute. Chaotic evil can only exist on a small scale as on a large scale it just leads to infighting. So no chaotic sith can actually threaten the republic. It is just too big to be brought down by some chaotic outside force. I do actually like the Sith Empire of Swtor as it's an equal force to the republic. So often it is a very skewed war in Star Wars or against 2 radically different opponents. With the republic and the empire they are very much factions. Though I do think that maybe they could have deviated more from the Galactic empire look. I do like how diverse the sith are though. From the evil sorcerers of Korriban, the radical brotherhood, the political rule of two, the imperial warriors of the battlefield, the hunters of the triad and more.
Mandalorians did fight in several major battles as mercenaries and Boba Fett led an elite company. These were legends Mandalorians so they had several different species but they still had things like Beskar armor and weapons but not a lot as the Empire had done a number to them by strip mining Mandalore.
You didn't mention the Vong spies in the government, like the Kuat senator, who undermined the Fondor operation. You are also ignoring the peace brigade (aka why the Empire would do much, much worse). Also the Vong volcano guns are very effective against armour.
Interesting that you think the Peace Brigades would've completely overturned the conventional wisdom. From what I've heard, many commentors think the empire would have a much easier time of defeating the Yuuzhan Vong, simply because they were so militerized. I think the Empirecould've fought with the Yuuzhan Vong, sure, but their repression and anti alien sentiment (not to mention their use of wmds on their own populace) would've made sabotage and subterfuge much more likely to work. Hell, if anything screams technological tyranny and repression, it's the Death Stars. Also the empire is not good simply because they face another evil; it's called evil vs. evil.
@@adams13245 Pretty much. I mean against the Empire the "peace brigade" would be "Rebel Alliance 2.0", the Empires evil would make aliens and other flock to the Vong. The Empire might have a lot of weapons but it is built to intimidate the enemy, they are weapons of terror. The Vong do not fear death the Empire can't intimidate them and the Empire's weapons would be bad against the Vong, once the Empire losses it's first battle the rebellion would begin, because the fear of the Empire would be lost.
@@robertpatience5141 I don't know if I would say the Empire's weapons would be completely ineffective, but you do make a good point that many of the empire apologists ignore the reality of politics and morale in lionizing their favorite outer space tyranny. The Death Star could've blown up a worldship or two; thing is, the Yuuzhan Vong would've probably countered that by spreading their worldships out on a strategic scale and using coralskippers or grutchin to try and bore through the armor. That and the fact that the empire lost to an underfunded under equipped rebellion doesn't bode well for their ability to deal with infiltrators such as Nom Anor, who was able to get people in the New Republic to want peace with the Yuuzhan Vong. As opposed to the openly totalitarian and brutal dictatorship. I know one author in the New Jedi Order had Anor outright state that the Empire could've beaten the Yuuzhan Vong easier, and was a "much more logical government." A. This is coming from a member of a militant theocracy; of course he's going to hear the reports of a not to dissimilar government and think "Yeah, they've got it all figured out." B. Nom Anor is a consummate liar from what I know and may've simply been buttering up his superior. "Oh, yeah, this New Republic thing will fall like a house of cards. The empire would've put up a sterner fight." C. The author was having a fan wank over keeping the closet totalitarians in. Just because an author says something doesn't mean it's true or logical. D. Just because a force opposes an evil doesn't mean said force is not itself evil. For example, there was this time where a totalitarian dictatorship based on race fought with a totalitarian dictatorship based on class. Both committed mass slaughter of their own people. It's something you might remember from history. For all their bloviating about being sophisticated moral relativists the empire apologists certainly seem to think facing the Yuuzhan Vong makes the empire suddenly perfectly good. Almost like they don't care about morality, and just want cool uniforms. If Nom Anor can get people from the much more open and less repressive New Republic to join as allies, just imagine his ability to do so with the repressive empire!
@@adams13245 Well the Ties will not work as well since they have no shields and even when they do the Vong can strip them as the defender as no dampeners. Yeah people forget that even in NJO itself the IR gets beaten worse than the NR after a single battle. yeah people focus on the weapons and not the politics.
@@robertpatience5141 Yah, the idea that ties would defeat the coral skippers ignores that the dovin basals are multipurpose; without having to strip away the shields they could make coral skippers fast or absorb more shots.
The Yuuzhan Vong were essentially invisible to the Force and the Jedi were unable to read the thoughts of their enemies which resulted in countless Masters being eviscerated at the hands of a Vong attacker who waltzed right up to them undetected
I know the idea of continuity idea doesn't really exist but why didn't they use big smaller weapons I'm pretty sure if they had a minefield of seismic charges they could have literally torn apart those bio ships
Wouldn't the Yuuzhan Vong simply go around them, or send in grutchin to clear the minefields? The latter are insectoid crreatures the Vong release to chew up starships and are pretty much expendable, since they're aggressive enough to attack friendly vessels.
@enclaveherewhyisntyourvide3089 Don't really remember writing this Maybe my microphone didn't understand me but what I meant by bigger smaller weapons, I meant like grenades that somehow caused the size of a missile explosion just like the seismic charges smal size of the jedi star fighter but very big impact I just figured if something was small enough it could slip past the dovian basal And create a very big impact. Even in star wars rebels a hyperdrive can turn itself into a bomb and vaporize everything on site
ok serious question! so is winter with tycho celchu or admiral ackbar? because i started my legends life at the xwing books and i thought winter was with tycho. but once winter was watching anakin solo on that secret base and ackbar visited, from there on it seems like her and ackbar got some fishy(haha) relations going. i'm on the crystal star right now moving forward in time so i havent gone all the way through yet, but i need this question answered! cause it looks like shes with tycho but shes secretly bangin ackbar!
Damn. This could have been the better sequel trilogy...an enemy force that can resist the force itself! Even Palpatine was fearful of this threat to his rule.
On paper yes but Palpatine would've manipulated the crisis to the max and would've caused at least half as much of the damage on the mid and outer rim as the New Republic allowed, and would've been more than happy to feed the Vong systems and species that he didn't paricularly like.
I just can't take the Vong seriously no matter how many planets they burned down. The snarly orc faces, the spiky codpieces, the slithering little dragon-snake staffs. It's just so goofy looking. They're like something out of a D&D book printed late in an edition's lifecycle, when the writers are really struggling for ideas.
There's the old EU, where several decades after Endor, the Yuuzhan Vong invade. That was scrapped (kindof) for the original trilogy 2.0. To be fair, TLJ tried something somewhat new, but fans hated it so 9 was a complete retread.
Significantly more than half. You can see the map of their advance here: static.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/6/6f/Yuuzhan_Vong_War_Vector_Prime.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20150401183951 , which is still only so much information. When you factor in what specifically they conquered, they had taken down most seats of galactic government and pushed the factions way back, it's hard to phrase it differently. If your objection to the video is quibbling with the specifics of what "mostly" means in the title then I don't know what to tell you.
@@Charlie94781 Yeah. The Yuuzhan Vong are something new, instead of a repeat of jedi vs. sith wars, with the occasional interlude with the mandalorians. They're something that challenges the galaxy on a technological, tactical, societal and religious level. And how do they fit in with Star Trek more? Star Trek generally has religion be a trick with tech being used to set up some people as gods, while Star Wars has the force be central. If anything the Yuuzhan Vong are like something out of Warhammer 40,000, war obsessed theocrats. But a major part of them is that they're different and new in Star Wars.
Borsk Fey'lya: Silly Jedi. There are no extragalactic beings out for our kidneys.
Fey'lya was, basically, Joo Dee from The Last Airbender "there is no war on Ba Sing Ze"
I hate Fey‘lya. He sucks
Borsk Fey'lya: Ah yes, "Yuuzhan Vong", the race of aliens using organic technology supposedly invading the galaxy. We have dismissed those claims.
"Ah yes, 'Yuuzhan Vong'... we have dismissed that claim."
Most people probably forget that Mandorlian Legend Canderous Ordo encountered one of the Vong's scout ships during his time in Mandalorian Navy, he talks about it in Kotor 1.
So did Darth maul
@@wizard_of_poz4413 before or after Lucasfilm gave him infinite respawns
I think most people miss that
@@Kolonol1 yep
@@AncestorEmpire1 after but his encounter happened before Phantom Menace
"He was very busy with Winter."
My man
Heh...heh...heh....he was "busy" with winter....she's going to have the smell of fish permanently XD
two words - Borsk Fey'lya...
Also Viqi Shesh and Senator Pwoe
The new republic was just as incompetent as the old one. Not to mention the military’s fighting style
Yeah I blame him
I know viqi was on their payroll but I thought there was some sort of big reveal coming for borsk
what a useless bothan. fey'lya had zero redeeming qualities and he did the republic more than one favor when he sacrificed himself
The poor Outer Rim, always getting the shaft.
The Yuuzahn Vong certainly had planned their galactic invasion, they had observed the SW galaxy for years and knew of the various weakness's of the Republic and Empire and chose a pretty oppurtune time of relative peace and slight demilitarization and as you said retirement of older officers and lack of experienced ones. Also the New Republic being plagued similarly by the problems of the pre-Empire Republic. In a way the Star Wars Galaxy post 25 ABY reminds me of Post War Europe circa 1918 to 39, relative demilitarization, political upheaval in the face of the Great Depression, relief and reconstruction efforts, corruption and lack of experienced officers and effective military forces that could face the might of a rising Germany. Not a direct correlation, but it has similarities to me.
Likely a well written allegory. Good eye!
The Vong had scouts in the Galaxy since the time of Knights of the old Republic. There is even a conversation with one of the characters who encountered some. Though he had no idea
@@megagamernick9883 Canderous Ordo. I love that story he tells honestly, it really puts into perspective just how long the Vong were planning the invasion, especially when you could consider Maul's death battle with a Vong warrior at the edge of Known Space as the Vong sending out single warriors to seek out the strongest opponents in the entire Galaxy to continue planning
When you started talking about Ackbar I was waiting to hear about your Winter conspiracies.
The Yuuzhan Vong's ability to infiltrate societies with spies and saboteurs is the biggest advantage they had during the invasion. Their agents broke down shield generators, fermented planetary unrest, and turn local and galactic forces against each other.
You make great points in this video, but I really really am firm on this point that the spying and sabotage, as well as their political manipulation was the biggest advantage the Vong had in the first year or two of the invasion.
That's an interesting thought, since so many people argue the empire would've had a much easier time. While I can see how the massive military build up and use of hard target destroyers (hello Death Star!) could've helped, the empire was highly repressive and not very good at keeping popular opinion on its side. Hence why I think Thrawn isn't as much of a genius as people make him out to be; he apparently saw the empire as the only way to defeat the Yuuzhan Vong and enabled the planet killing of other imperial officers and their general callousness.
Bear in mind too that early on in the war the only way that any military action was taken was kinda down to what was basically a mutiny with Admiral Kre’fey essentially telling Borsk “either let us do our jobs without your interference or I’ll leave and take as much of the fleet as I can to conquer some unknown regions planets and build up our forces whilst we watch you burn.” Granted the destruction of Ithor kinda ended that autonomy but it was arguably the most productive the fleet was until the fall of Coruscant.
The yuuzhan vong were definitely the kind of threat that couldn't be stopped with traditional methods.
Forcing their enemies to develop new ideas and eventually defeat them.
And that's a great deal of why they're awesome. While I think Thrawn is somewhat overrated, I hope the Grysk can give a similar challenge to the post episode nine governments.
@@adams13245 it's a possiblity if they choose to go that way.
The Vong War really did feel like the Return of The Jedi of The post Return of The Jedi Era.
💯💯💯💯💯. The TRUE ST that could have been and we could have gotten…..
Gosh, that’s soooo accurate and awesome, to be honest
I’d love to see more stories post ROTJ/Yuzhann Vong War era set 3,000/4,000 years afterwards. Sadly, that probably won’t ever happen.
Because they had been planning and preparing to invade atleast a thousand years before they actually did it, we know for a fact that Yuuzhan Vong Scout ships had already been present in the Unknown Regions of the Galaxy as far back as the Knights Of The Old Republic Era and maybe even further!
That’s cool
8:30
It's also because the Vong were significantly outnumbered by the republic and it's allies. However they were far superior warriors and better equipment. When you have an advantage in quality but a disadvantage in quantity what you want is to pin down your opponent in a large battle and destroy the bulk of their larger force with your stronger ones. Since in a long war losses will occur even with superior quality due to accidents, ambushes or just luck. The Vong couldn't so easily replace those losses.
So Ackbar's main goal was to prevent the Vong from getting the conclusive victory they wanted. Making sure to keep fighting and make the Vong take losses but ensure they never can take out the majority of the force in one swoop.
The republic and it's allies also have the support of the people. While they had some trouble here and there it's clear that the people don't want to live under the Vong so they could take hold of all the resources the galaxy had to offer. While the Vong were invaders so they only had what they brought with them and had to spend considerable resources terraforming worlds.
Amazing analysis honestly. Ackbar and the other like-minded leaders basically forced the Vong into a war of attrition that they couldn't ever afford because of, like you said, only having the supplies from the planets they burned and what they brought with them on their looooooooong travels through the Intergalactic Void
@@ChrisVillagomez But also they had a smaller army and in a long war losses will mount on both sides even if one has superior soldiers cause of random things. In a long war you will be ambushed and will get caught in bad situations.
If you have more soldiers to throw at it you can afford more losses. The big thing you want to avoid is a decisive battle where you lose almost all your army all at once. The bigger the battle the less quantity matters. In a big battle a superior quality army can beat one several times it's size quite easily. However in a large war where you have to spread out your armies not having many soldiers is a big handicap. Also with them spread out you're vulnerable to pockets of them being surrounded and crushed by the enemy. Even if they are strong soldiers being outnumbered over 1000 to 1 and cut off from supplies and reinforcements they won't win.
@@ChrisVillagomez If you have a war between an army superior in quality and one superior in quantity the strategy for the quantitalively superior one is to force a decisive battle as quickly as possible while the quantitaively superior one wants to avoid that while still engaging the enemy.
I would think the republican leaders would also do push on a very large front to keep the pressure on. To make sure the Vong had to keep fighting and couldn't focus on regaining their strength. The republic had a lot of troops and resources ready to go that they could call on so they can keep a large front war going for quite some time.
Basically going with the Soviet war doctrine of deep battle. Taking bites out of the enemy's territory one by one trying to keep them off guard. If the enemy is moving you spend resources on defense to make them take losses while pulling the majority of your forces out. The ones holding the line will be sacrificed but the defensive advantage means they will likely trade equally with the enemy.
If you make the front large then you can concentrate your forces to take bites without sacrificing the rest which the numerically inferior enemy can't do, they can't be strong everywhere. What you want to avoid though is taking a strong point head on as that will end badly for you. You want to make sure to never engage them at their full strength.
If Thrawn had been victorious, or atleast survived and kept in New Republic custody, how would he have dealt with the Vong?
He would have crushed them.
@@Jungoguy Would have made some great novels
Yup the GCW took away a lot of the Galaxies best people who would have given the Vong a lot of troubles.
@@Jungoguy yes. Not immediately, but *way* faster than the New Republic did.
@@Jungoguy I don't think it would've been as one sided as people like to think. As the video touched on, the Yuuzhan Vong used plenty of infiltrators to foment rebellion and make allied factions. Imperial oppression may've kept some people in line, but a lot would depend on the totalitarian empire being more terrifying than the Vong. That is... very hard to do. That and it could lead to greater problems. With the two main governments being a choice between A. A militarist theocracy that worships pain and B. a totalitarian tyranny that uses planet killers against its own people, I could see people mass defecting if they hear either the Empire or Yuuzhan Vong are bringing their weaponry around. Areas away from the fighting refusing to help the empire till they get less repression. A good portion of the Star Wars fandom seems to think the only way to destroy the empire is military might, but the Rebellion showed that a much smaller enterprise can take it down. That and, if Plaps is such a genius, why didn't he defeat the rebellion? They were smaller and less brutal then the Vong, surely Palps would've crushed them! Maybe because open brutality isn't the way you win wars. Not in he long term at least.
You forgot to mention how the dovin basils could also suck away the shields from New Republic ships
Just wanted to say I really appreciate your channel, I don't really like most star wars youtubers because so many are very opinionated without knowing enough lore.
As a massive star wars nerd i was beginning to think I'd never find someone who actually had read and remembered more books, comics, and other star wars media than I had, and it's wonderful to actually learn new things and new opinions on star wars subjects.
Keep making these excellent videos!
If the Republic had reacted faster, I believe they would have beaten the Vong at Vector Prime. I also believe Anakin Solo would have survived, Jacen Solo wouldn't have fallen to the dark side, and Mara Jade wouldn't have died.
I loved when Jacen I think gets captured and learns the vong ways. Befriending the weapon entities that end up wrapping around him like armor.
Which is also the most beautifully written SW book ever.
@@Darth_XionnInteresting
@@chasehedges6775 Have you read it?
@@Darth_Xionn No but it does sound interesting. I’ve been kind of on a Star Wars EU exploration of sorts.
@@chasehedges6775 You should give the New Jedi Order a try, it's long, but some of the best SW around.
kinda new to this SW stories after the movies, so just to say that just until 11:02 that's what exactly what i was thinking of, making an analogy of real world WW2, just replace the new republic with French and the Yuuzhans with German , and you see exactly the same pattern
This series is what I wanted covered as a sequel to the clone wars not rebels. A animated series adaptation of the New Jedi order is my biggest dream
Their plot armour was so thick and so ingrained into their writing, that even their skin was lightsaber proof
They are also terrifying as heck
Walk down memory lane. I was reading the New Jedi Order novels as they were coming out.
Loved this video!!!!! Some of my favorite SW books, next to the bounty hunters trilogy....
In Swtor was it unrealistic that the Sith Empire was able to win so many victories during the Great Galactic War when they must of had a much smaller military, industry, access to resources, and generally a much mich smaller population and territory? I mean come on the Sith Empire must of had only a few thousand worlds at best after recovering from the massacre of the Hyperspace war and as soon as they declared total war they would of been overrun extremely quickly.
Atleast a million worlds galactic nation against a thousand world interstellar nation is just a stomp from a realistic perspective. Even with Sith warriors they are outnumbered and outresourced badly.
Sure, that’s why people love the Sith.. it’s the feel good story of butchery where the underdog somehow beats the vastly more capable galactic power..
But yes galactic domination impossible, the attack on coruscant (while masterful) would of only temporarily crippled the republic.. Which is why they brokered for peace afterwards.. knowing that the Republic would reorganize on another capital world & drive the Sith forces back to where the came..
Now yes the Republic has its problem but as did the Sith.. Corrupted & ineffective oversight for the Republic vs the endless Power machinations which befall every sith formation..
I appreciate the long format, good video!
Just cover the various timelines, preferably as far back as possible, that could’ve contributed to the Yuuzhan Vongs’ exodus from their previous galaxy; did it go as far back as the centennials who built center point station? Could the Vong come there sooner? And more…
Most of the events that have contributed to Vong's invasion are covered in supplemental material like the Essential Guides to Warfare and Droids. Same with the Star Wars Droids cartoon and the Lando Calrissian trilogy by L. Neil Smith.
Not the point I was making, @@JediAcolyte94, but 🤷♂️…
Who would win: the Covenant or the Yuuzhan Vong? Something that I found interesting as when you think about it, they do have multiple similarities.
Vong, easily. FTL travel in SW is far superior and SW weapons are a lot stronger.
Yuuzhan Vong, they probably outnumber the Convenant(I mean, who knows, Star Wars was never very good at numbers), and their technology is also generally better.
I wouldn't dislike the Vong stories so much if they weren't made to look like the edgiest edge lords to ever be on edge circa 2008. It's just so dumb. Like the writers were like, "You know how everyone will know these guys are scarey? LET'S MAKE EVERYTHING THEY USE SPIKEY AS FUCK!"
I wish this is what starwars movies were made
Give me this movie Hollywood! You could do early make a trilogy of movies based off these stories. Look I'll do basic premises here
1. Galactic Civilization begins breaking down with disease, war and famine breaking out everywhere, as well as political extremism. We find out at the end the Vong are behind it all... Invasion begins
2. War movie where we watch Galactic Civilization fall completely. Movie ends like Rogue One with an idea of hope
3. Rebels fighting off the Vong and eventually driving them out but have this movie have a timeskip of maybe 3-4 years
I can see it so clearly, it's painful. The Fall of Coruscant would have been an amazing Second Act, All is Lost moment. Luke in full bloom as a Jedi master of a New Order, Republic and Imperial forces fighting only to have to join together, the victory and happy ending with them uniting under the Galactic Alliance. (Until the next big crisis, but they don't call it Star Vibes, and this hypothetical Episode 9 would still be an amazing send-off to this entire era of galactic history that started in TPM.)
Too many ppl would cry that "this is not my star wars," and "star wars is dead," if that ever happened
@@kevinvassago Star Wars is already dead with Modern Disney running it. Giving it to someone else who knows what they’re doing would be a smart choice
@@RoyalFusilier💯💯
@chasehedges6775 just because u don't like something doesn't make it dead. If the whole world stopped liking star wars, they would stop making star wars content cuz they wouldn't be making any money off it. I don't like EVERYTHING in star wars, but that doesn't mean I'm going to hate on it or declare that it's dead. You probably aren't aware of this, but ppl were saying the same sht for about a decade after the prequels dropped in the early 2000's. It wasn't until recently that they started to be appreciated. The Clone wars series was absolutely hated too, and ashoka was so trashed ppl accused George Lucas of purposely destroying his own franchise. Trust me, this hate band wagon your on is nothing new
How powerful do you think the true Sith Empire could of been had the orginal Kotor 3 idea of the Sith being extremely truly chaos levels of evil remained and not the Swtor Sith Empire we got?
Honestly, the SWTOR Sith feel more like the Brotherhood of Darkness than Sith despite having one leader.
I feel like the Chaos levels of Sith would have been much more interesting in the long run. Then again, I'm not a story writer.
Ultimate ly doesn't matter because they would have had to collapse from something by 2000BBY
While that sounds good in concept it's kind of impossible to actually execute. Chaotic evil can only exist on a small scale as on a large scale it just leads to infighting.
So no chaotic sith can actually threaten the republic. It is just too big to be brought down by some chaotic outside force.
I do actually like the Sith Empire of Swtor as it's an equal force to the republic. So often it is a very skewed war in Star Wars or against 2 radically different opponents. With the republic and the empire they are very much factions.
Though I do think that maybe they could have deviated more from the Galactic empire look.
I do like how diverse the sith are though. From the evil sorcerers of Korriban, the radical brotherhood, the political rule of two, the imperial warriors of the battlefield, the hunters of the triad and more.
They're basically the Mongols of the Star Wars Universe
Zit shooters oh no flashbacks to high-school. Admiral Ackbar and Winter definitely were busy
The Yaret Kors launched molten rock/magma at enemy ships
Now here the Mandalorian's would be usefull AF for the entire galaxy and apreciated aswell.Now would be their time.
Mandalorians did fight in several major battles as mercenaries and Boba Fett led an elite company. These were legends Mandalorians so they had several different species but they still had things like Beskar armor and weapons but not a lot as the Empire had done a number to them by strip mining Mandalore.
You didn't mention the Vong spies in the government, like the Kuat senator, who undermined the Fondor operation. You are also ignoring the peace brigade (aka why the Empire would do much, much worse). Also the Vong volcano guns are very effective against armour.
Interesting that you think the Peace Brigades would've completely overturned the conventional wisdom. From what I've heard, many commentors think the empire would have a much easier time of defeating the Yuuzhan Vong, simply because they were so militerized. I think the Empirecould've fought with the Yuuzhan Vong, sure, but their repression and anti alien sentiment (not to mention their use of wmds on their own populace) would've made sabotage and subterfuge much more likely to work. Hell, if anything screams technological tyranny and repression, it's the Death Stars. Also the empire is not good simply because they face another evil; it's called evil vs. evil.
@@adams13245 Pretty much. I mean against the Empire the "peace brigade" would be "Rebel Alliance 2.0", the Empires evil would make aliens and other flock to the Vong. The Empire might have a lot of weapons but it is built to intimidate the enemy, they are weapons of terror. The Vong do not fear death the Empire can't intimidate them and the Empire's weapons would be bad against the Vong, once the Empire losses it's first battle the rebellion would begin, because the fear of the Empire would be lost.
@@robertpatience5141 I don't know if I would say the Empire's weapons would be completely ineffective, but you do make a good point that many of the empire apologists ignore the reality of politics and morale in lionizing their favorite outer space tyranny. The Death Star could've blown up a worldship or two; thing is, the Yuuzhan Vong would've probably countered that by spreading their worldships out on a strategic scale and using coralskippers or grutchin to try and bore through the armor. That and the fact that the empire lost to an underfunded under equipped rebellion doesn't bode well for their ability to deal with infiltrators such as Nom Anor, who was able to get people in the New Republic to want peace with the Yuuzhan Vong. As opposed to the openly totalitarian and brutal dictatorship. I know one author in the New Jedi Order had Anor outright state that the Empire could've beaten the Yuuzhan Vong easier, and was a "much more logical government." A. This is coming from a member of a militant theocracy; of course he's going to hear the reports of a not to dissimilar government and think "Yeah, they've got it all figured out." B. Nom Anor is a consummate liar from what I know and may've simply been buttering up his superior. "Oh, yeah, this New Republic thing will fall like a house of cards. The empire would've put up a sterner fight." C. The author was having a fan wank over keeping the closet totalitarians in. Just because an author says something doesn't mean it's true or logical.
D. Just because a force opposes an evil doesn't mean said force is not itself evil. For example, there was this time where a totalitarian dictatorship based on race fought with a totalitarian dictatorship based on class. Both committed mass slaughter of their own people. It's something you might remember from history. For all their bloviating about being sophisticated moral relativists the empire apologists certainly seem to think facing the Yuuzhan Vong makes the empire suddenly perfectly good. Almost like they don't care about morality, and just want cool uniforms.
If Nom Anor can get people from the much more open and less repressive New Republic to join as allies, just imagine his ability to do so with the repressive empire!
@@adams13245 Well the Ties will not work as well since they have no shields and even when they do the Vong can strip them as the defender as no dampeners. Yeah people forget that even in NJO itself the IR gets beaten worse than the NR after a single battle.
yeah people focus on the weapons and not the politics.
@@robertpatience5141 Yah, the idea that ties would defeat the coral skippers ignores that the dovin basals are multipurpose; without having to strip away the shields they could make coral skippers fast or absorb more shots.
Imagine the series they could have done with this.
💯
the yuzhan vongs success was mainly due to the fact that they were cut off from the force so the jedi and the force sensitive
The Yuuzhan Vong were essentially invisible to the Force and the Jedi were unable to read the thoughts of their enemies which resulted in countless Masters being eviscerated at the hands of a Vong attacker who waltzed right up to them undetected
The 'zh' in 'Yuuzhan' is pronounced like the 's' in 'leisure'.
I hate english pronounciation lol
@@Historylord15 'Leisure' is French in origin.
What about the Grysk attack on Thrawn and the Chiss
That would be interesting
I was reading about Thrawn in the EU and I find it karmic/satisfying that his own bodyguard killed him and it was one thing never expected.
8:35 You meant Yuuzhan Vong lol
How was star wars Galaxy easily Conquered :- Rebel didn't have plot armour and Empire didn't exist
I know the idea of continuity idea doesn't really exist but why didn't they use big smaller weapons
I'm pretty sure if they had a minefield of seismic charges they could have literally torn apart those bio ships
Wouldn't the Yuuzhan Vong simply go around them, or send in grutchin to clear the minefields? The latter are insectoid crreatures the Vong release to chew up starships and are pretty much expendable, since they're aggressive enough to attack friendly vessels.
Mines had limited effectiveness due to Dovin Basal singularity shielding. IDK what you mean by big smaller weapons, is English your second language?
@enclaveherewhyisntyourvide3089 Don't really remember writing this Maybe my microphone didn't understand me but what I meant by bigger smaller weapons, I meant like grenades that somehow caused the size of a missile explosion just like the seismic charges smal size of the jedi star fighter but very big impact I just figured if something was small enough it could slip past the dovian basal And create a very big impact. Even in star wars rebels a hyperdrive can turn itself into a bomb and vaporize everything on site
Then Borsk Fey’lay: There are no bong
Now with the New Republic: There are no Imperials (also there isn’t a Thrawn coming back).
ok serious question! so is winter with tycho celchu or admiral ackbar? because i started my legends life at the xwing books and i thought winter was with tycho. but once winter was watching anakin solo on that secret base and ackbar visited, from there on it seems like her and ackbar got some fishy(haha) relations going. i'm on the crystal star right now moving forward in time so i havent gone all the way through yet, but i need this question answered! cause it looks like shes with tycho but shes secretly bangin ackbar!
I ship Ackbar and winter... pun intended. Also you should put the neocrusaders against the Yuuzhan Vong
4:05
That is not needed though. With tactics you can have 2 TIE fighers engage each Vong ship one by one.
Damn. This could have been the better sequel trilogy...an enemy force that can resist the force itself!
Even Palpatine was fearful of this threat to his rule.
Gabriel Atienza a big reason why he built the Death Star as you can see
@@raphaelostrowski6336There was also the Sun Crusher, The Galaxy Gun, and The World Devastators from Legends too...
@@deewatsoon6036 center point
How?
Quite easy and brutal
True.
What was he busy doing with winter?
Probably Koi Tus?
I think the Empire would've had a fairly easy time with the YV
Nah, The Empire would/could probably put up a good fight but they would still lose.
On paper yes but Palpatine would've manipulated the crisis to the max and would've caused at least half as much of the damage on the mid and outer rim as the New Republic allowed, and would've been more than happy to feed the Vong systems and species that he didn't paricularly like.
Nope. Han points out in Destiny's Way that the Empire would've been undone by their own superweapons.
@@enclaveherewhyisntyourvide3089
Well said. Palapatine would definitely do it if could or wanted to.
@@ShannonCarter55 The Empire’s arrogance for ya, pretty much
They where simply built different
I just can't take the Vong seriously no matter how many planets they burned down. The snarly orc faces, the spiky codpieces, the slithering little dragon-snake staffs. It's just so goofy looking.
They're like something out of a D&D book printed late in an edition's lifecycle, when the writers are really struggling for ideas.
Still better than the ST.
I’d take that anyday over the Empire 2.0 in the ST, tbh
Trinston was here ..
#WinBar
0:29
Mmm, 666 likes. Just how I like it.
Wait this happened before the First Order because Leia died during first order stuff. #soconfused
There's the old EU, where several decades after Endor, the Yuuzhan Vong invade. That was scrapped (kindof) for the original trilogy 2.0. To be fair, TLJ tried something somewhat new, but fans hated it so 9 was a complete retread.
Having a xenophobic, militarist society like the Empire would've helped...
Let's be honest, most of the Vong's success came from some pretty poor writing mostly.
What's your reasoning for it?
Not really dude.
Borsk Fey’lya and his toadies were selfish assholes who threw the Jedi and people under the bus just to save their own stinking hides
They didn’t take over the entire galaxy? They took over half of it at most.
Significantly more than half. You can see the map of their advance here: static.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/6/6f/Yuuzhan_Vong_War_Vector_Prime.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20150401183951 , which is still only so much information. When you factor in what specifically they conquered, they had taken down most seats of galactic government and pushed the factions way back, it's hard to phrase it differently. If your objection to the video is quibbling with the specifics of what "mostly" means in the title then I don't know what to tell you.
They belong in star trek
The Yuuzhan Vong are an epic addition to the Star Wars universe
@@Charlie94781 Yeah. The Yuuzhan Vong are something new, instead of a repeat of jedi vs. sith wars, with the occasional interlude with the mandalorians. They're something that challenges the galaxy on a technological, tactical, societal and religious level. And how do they fit in with Star Trek more? Star Trek generally has religion be a trick with tech being used to set up some people as gods, while Star Wars has the force be central. If anything the Yuuzhan Vong are like something out of Warhammer 40,000, war obsessed theocrats. But a major part of them is that they're different and new in Star Wars.
I'm going to say... bad writing.
Same way germany conquered France
Interesting
0:29
Sound like a much better story than the ST.