what TTYD fan says they want less gameplay? one of the BEST things about TTYD is that you can challenge yourself, the game even has difficulty settings in the form of badges that make you take double damage. Leveling up does have an impact, and your inability to manage the easy system of badges doesn't take away that you can tackle combat in nearly any way you desire. I mean, i get what you're saying, but you sound disingenuous a lot of the time.
28:10 hard disagree, timers are almost never unnecessary because they fundamentally change how the game is played. In this case i like the timer because you need to think/act fast which prevents the player from having perfect performance 100% of the time
Well I do agree that origami king has a lot of value of its own and it is severely overhated unfortunately I do think a lot of its phenomenal execution is built on a weak foundation. Bobby's story and subsequent sacrifice is awesome, but the game has nothing else to offer that hits nearly as hard. Because the villains and most of the partners have little role in the actual story I feel like your enjoyment of Origami King's narrative can only go as far as how much you connect with Olly, Olivia, and Bobby. They had a good thing going with Olly but in the end I find his motivation comes off as corny, simply hating all toads because his creator wrote on him, really taking away from his believability and threatening presence as a villain when you realize his main drive stems from a little incident. Olivia is a wonderful character with a ton of fun moments and she really offers nothing to complain about, the worst thing you could really say about her is that she gets to have pretty much every cool character moment, as T.Ode, and the professor guy in the desert are mostly relegated to watching mario and olivia do their thing. I would've preferred if your partners quested around with you through multiple chapters to allow them to have a few more interesting moments of their own. The other thing that takes the wind out of the game's sails is the world design. While the presentation is gorgeous and the level design is excellent, being filled with fun secrets and great sandbox puzzles and interactions, I find that this is just not an interesting world on a grand scale. Every villain is an invader, which leads to them all having the same concept of showing up and messing things up, without a deeper connection to the area they reside in. On top of this the concept of each area is very safe, and they were not designed to fit the story but rather the story was designed to fit them. With the exception of the blue streamer, every other area in the game is a surface level generic mario location with only slight hints of culture and deeper lore to draw you in and connect with your environment. There is nothing in this game that feels like it could only ever exist in Origami King, the levels don't even really stack up to a less story focused game like Mario Odyssey, and while they aren't sticker star levels of unoriginal they aren't really anything that captures the imagination beyond the surface level pretty visuals and solid level design. I would've had far more fun engaging in this world if they were able to bring more new ideas to the table, flex their creative muscles a bit more, but we're stuck with pretty generic mario locales. This extends to the npcs and enemies as well but I think that point has been beaten to death by every other person who critiques OK. The battles are solid enough that I understand liking them more than ttyd's if you enjoy that style of puzzle, but for me I like open ended strategy with multiple viable solutions and plenty of ways to approach each problem rather than every battle having one set way to win and rendering every other approach outside of solving the puzzle correctly pointless. I find it interesting to call TTYD's battles repetitive when they have a far more open ended approach than Origami Kings, although I suppose in TTYD combat you are more limited by your own imagination. The game lays out a huge variety of tools and its up to you to make something out of it, whereas Origami King presents you with a neat little package of puzzles and basic action commands and lets you go from there. TTYD's strengths lay in figuring out new ways to approach your battles as you play and unlock more options, for example I found it extremely satisfying when I figured out how useful the badge which lets your partner act after switching out is, and its weaknesses are that every fight has the potential to play out extremely similarly if the player only chooses to use one move (like just using jump) every time for the entire game, never being directly forced into adding more variety to their playstyle outside of Grubba's conditions in the glitz pit. Origami King on the other hand builds variety directly into each combat encounter with the puzzle layout being different every time, but once you solve the puzzle the battle is basically over. For me I would not be willing to put up with something like the pit of 100 trials in Origami King because that would basically just be 100 slider puzzles in a row, whereas in ttyd its one of the best parts of the game because it allows you to buckle down and experiment your way through 100 fights.
The part with the pit of 100 trials really speaks to me I find the modern titles really hard to replay since their novelty wears off for me really fast Meanwhile for 64/TTYD I could probably replay them an endless amount due to how they are built
You need to change the thumbnail and title, it’s attaching a lot of toxicity. BTW, good video but I disagree, I really like the badge system, and combat of TTYD. I also value the world building in TTYD more. Honestly I want a modern PM that has TOK level design and interconnected world, and the battle system of TTYD with even more badges. Then throw in the writing of Super plus partners, and the humor of color splash for the hell of it. Also playing as peach again would be nice, that’d likely since Nintendo is giving her more agency recently. Would like her as a partner even. I also think Bobby is somewhat undermined by the fact that OGK is the only PM game where Bob-Oms die after exploding, and just spamming them in airship section.
The problem with paper mario series is that, it is an RPG. It is NOT supposed to be a gimmicky Paper themed game, it is supposed to be a normal RPG with mario. It was always seen as the spiritual successor to the Mario RPG alongside Mario and Luigi. We want actual characters, fun dialogue and RPG mechanics. Not an extremely gimmicky paper themed gameplay where the most character dept is "I exist to act as a plot device/gameplay mechanic"
Calling TTYD's combat repetitive but not TOK's sounds like a shitpost. You're always becoming stronger in PM64/TTYD via getting more Badges, more Star abilities, more Partners. Which gives you more options to deal with all the different enemy types. TOK's is the epitome of repetitive, stale and boring. You're always doing the same thing, it's always the same type of puzzle, you always win in the first turn without any opposition if you solve the ring, it never evolves, you don't get any reward for winning, Mario is always using the same attacks during the whole game. Asking about choosing "Gameplay or Story" at the end sounds baffling, because that only shows how TTYD is superior in both. Since Sticker Star is been nothing but a plain downgrade from everything that came before.
Great video man, a lot of people will dismiss it but I thought it was really well made! It's nice to see a comparison between the two games that isn't just trolling or rage bait.
@@coronadesertorigami king's most notable departure from ttyd is by purposefully removing almost every rpg aspect (though origami king still has more than, like, sticker star did, but experience and switchable partners and star power and fp are all varyingly absent in every game after ttyd)
@@PhantasticMrPhrog Mhm, though spm does remove badges, fp, partners (for the most part, pixls are effectively just new moves for mario), and turn based combat which while it wasn't meant to stay that way it definitely did.
This makes me wonder what your opinion is on super paper mario, if you've played it? In my opinion it has the strongest story in the entire series (albeit some of it is a little fan-fictiony lol).
I feel like you have a more casual view of gaming which makes your view of gaming flawed. In your argument for the story it sounds like you are actually leaning towards ttyd being the better game but then you quickly turn back to tok to try and prove your point. Another thing I noticed is that the story segment of your video takes up HALF of the video and the more important aspect of gaming which is gameplay is briefly mentioned and is very weak for your argumentative. Here's the thing if I want a story I will go read a book and enjoy the story of that book but when it comes to gaming I want to play the game which means that gameplay is more important to me than the story. What I want you to do is play both games again and leave out story elements play both games as fast as you can and as hard as you can and you will notice the differences in the aspects of gameplay.
She may as well not be because she didn't say anything about Grodus's plan or her Sisters plans to spread rumors about the treasures so people would be interested in wanting to find the treasure.
The badges were the best things in Paper Mario 64 and TTYD. I was so sad when Nintendo gimped the combat system into oblivion in later installments of the series.
0:00 - 0:19 So then... Why not title your video as "Why I prefer the Origami King over Thousand Year Door"? Even though I didn't watch the video (for no spoilers), I'm fine with your own opinion as much on how unpopular your opinion is. Also, the Origami King was never hated. It just that there's some weird discussion they made. Like, remember the infamous information interview?
You make some great points about the game I personally still really liked ttyd better but you really do pull some great facts. I kinda wish their were more scenes where the partners come out automatically instead of whoever is with you especially in the scenes with beldam and maryilln, vivian only speaks when you have her. I would've really liked if the partners talked to each other more.
Your comment about Olly's motivation making more sense rings dull. Olly's motivation isn't that he hates being alive; he hates that his creator WROTE A MESSAGE ON HIM. He also hates that toads are bland (which is valid but still doesn't line up with the game's themes.) Olly is an ill-fitting villain in his game, and also doesn't get anywhere near as much screentime and character-building as Grodus OR the shadowqueen does, considering how much ttyd builds to the shadow queen, letting you know multiple chapters in advance that an evil demon is the real treasure and you're left biting your nails as to what that demon really could be. Grodus, while not antithetical to Mario in any particular way besides kidnapping Peach, does get plenty of time on screen for us to get to know how he acts, see his frustration at Mario's success, and see how he treats the X-Nauts. I'm not saying that Grodus brings thematic depth to TTYD, but I am saying that Olly does no such thing for TOK. Your comment about partners not doing anything outside of their respective chapters is just flat-out not true. If you wanna see a game that treats its partners like just abilities, all you need to look at is Super Paper Mario. Pixls talk once when you find them and then never again. TTYD partners, on the other hand, act as all of the dialogue for team Mario, and the dialogue will change depending on who the partner is. Now, obviously, depending on your preference, some partners might never ever speak. I know most of my dialogue in ttyd was from Vivian, Yoshi, Goombella, and Bobbery, very little being from Flurrie or Koops; but that's still a lot. All of the party members that I'm traveling with feel like real people, even the ones I don't use all that much. They're believable characters. Maybe YOU feel like ttyd partners become just an ability, but I don't think that that's a fair objective criticism.
With the balance and pacing of Paper Mario 64. Like many Gamecube games, TTYD has always felt rushed and frontloaded. Because of this, I think 64 does a lot better than TTYD, in terms of having a more consistent world, and better balance with it's structure. The next game has so many huge steps it could take to *completely* dethrone TTYD
Personally I prefer stories and vibrant and unique characters first over unique gameplay. I love classic rpg gameplay and I'm really not a fan of paper related plots. I really don't care for the wheel battle system, Bobby and others (besides Olivia) don't resonate with me because of their generic designs, and open and explorative worlds don't do it for me outside of sandbox games, I'd rather be put on a set path the author layed upon me. While I do agree that OK uses Bowser and Luigi to a more meaningful extent, I really don't care for them, I've already seen their characters explored in other RPG Mario games like Super Mario RPG and the Mario & Luigi series. Luigi being an inconsequential gag character in Paper Mario was a joke that ended up turning into a major plot point in Super Paper Mario.
Ok I don't think you understand just because a character has a unique design doesn't automatically make them a good character. Of course I am not saying ttyd characters are bad they are just amazing. But I think Bobby showed that a unique designed character isnt the main reason why characters are loved of course it's definitely still a reason but more of the impact they make on you. But yeah I can agree Olivia and Bobby are the only two that I really loved remembering.
I don't know how you missed the symbolism with the shadow queen being defeated because of the combined efforts of all the people mario has helped along the way. Its the ultimate sendoff that ties everything together showing how important your deeds were to everyone who's lives were improved by your actions, and how they return the favor by giving you the power to actually defeat the shadow queen.
ppl be calling ttyd defenders toxic while videos like this have ">" signs like they not trying to start an argument. also as a paper mario fan i gave OK a chance i'm no "puritan" or toxic fanboy , as OK fans like to hide behind the term. Even with ur explanation here, I could not find the game interesting, fun, or captivating like TTYD and it seems most ppl didnt, while a very few, such as yourself, did. But u cant sit here and say its better than ttyd, u cant just say "look" u SHOULD like OK better and it is better and then list a bunch of so called "reasons" as to why the masses have bad taste, because lets cut the crap, u might as well be saying: the masses have bad taste. when the masses didn't like it. Ur not some intellectual that grasped the concept better than others. ppl like a well rounded story and game mechanics, so even with examples in situations where u found more profound character interactions and plot points vs ttyd ( which again, no , it didn't go over ppls heads, ppl are smarter than ur giving them credit for), the masses found the "simplistic" as someone like u might call it , approach to plot points better in ttyd. because of the story book aspect of it, while OK is more like a drama film or something. get it? THEY DIDNT MISS THE PLOT they just like ttyd plot better!!! im guessing u just like soap style drama stories better, but didn't like the storybook aspect of ttyd , so u found it inferior. thank god they listened and made a remake. also there's more incentive to battle in ttyd vs OK even with battle repetition vs uniqueness. what point is there to battle unique monsters when grinding gives u more reward? EXP/COINS/BADGES/ITEMS u said it yourself, rpg battle system is not for u. it doesn't make it ">" but i get it u want vews so u went with an argumentative plot point , too make ppl come here.
While I respect this guy's opinion, I wholly agree with your argument. I too think it is pretty hypocritical of people to call "TTYD fans" (not even just classic fans, TTYD fans specifically) toxic while they pretty frequently go out of their way to start arguments with them then play victim when they're rightfully called out (and let it never be forgotten that simply calling out a bad take is completely different than outright harassing people for having an opinion). Even the title of the video is pretty bad, as it's almost like this guy is saying that TOK is better than TTYD like it's a fact and not just his opinion
11:17 Just got suggested this video & there is a flaw in your argument that "none of the partners are related to Grodus or The Shadow Queen". Counterpoint: Vivian *was* fighting for Grodus & The Three Shadows until she decided to join Mario in Chapter 4 after he showed her an act of kindness by finding the cracked Super Bobomb. I don't see how Vivian wasn't connected to either Villain. By the end of the game, she's glad she changed sides and didn't stick it out with Beldam & the X-Nauts. Beldam would've briefed Vivian on WHY they needed the Crystal Stars anyway. I don't quite understand the argument, I guess.
Origami King has best music and visuals in my opinion (which is subjective and ignoring the remake), but apart of that...Dont get me wrong I dont dislike TOK, I think is a solid game, I can´t think of a reason why it would be better on any main gameplay or story point, which are the two most important things a game should have.
The ending is the most important part of any story. No matter how good an experience is, a bad ending can leave a bad taste in your mouth and make you not want to return to it. One of worst endings I’ve ever seen in a video game is paper Mario the origami king. I despise the ending to this game. It’s revealed that the reason the main villain of the game wanted to commit mass genocide, committed murder, committed attempted murder on his sister and mind control the thousands of people against their will was because his dad wrote on him, and he didn’t even bother to read what it said Also Olivia’s wish is so stupid. She wishes that all of the origami her brother folded would be undone, which includes her. The problem with that wish is that it ignores the hundreds of people that die during the game. Every enemy that you fight in origami king is being mind controlled against their will by Olly. Mario killed a ton of innocent people on his way to stop Olly and the game just chooses to ignore that. And the only thing Olivia’s wish actually does is save somebody who is kidnapped on a weekly basis, fix a castle and kill herself. And Olivia’s “sacrifice” is stupid, because it was completely avoidable if she had thought about what wish she was gonna make for more than two seconds What’s even stupider is the 1000 cranes technique. Something that was not mentioned at all during the entire game until the ending. Apparently, if you fold 1000 cranes, you are granted a wish. You’re telling me nobody has ever taken advantage of this before? Not Bowser? Not Dimentio? Nobody? Olivia doesn’t even fold 1000 cranes to get her wish. She only folds one. That defeats the entire purpose of the 1000 cranes technique in the first place. But ignoring that wouldn’t a way better wish for Olivia to have made would’ve been that after her brother folded her, he turned good. That way she would still be alive, her brother wouldn’t commit mass genocide and none of the terrible things that happened in the game would’ve happened. Bobby would even would still be alive. You could even have Kamek and Bowser jr actually sacrifice themselves and die in hotfoot crater, because their deaths would be undone. I suppose some people would have a problem with this being a “it was all just a dream type” ending but compared to the ending we got I think that’s 1000 times better Oh and the cherry on top of all of it is that the final boss is really anticlimactic and lame. What makes it suck even more is that the build up to the final boss is so good but as soon as you enter Ollys throne room everything goes downhill. I’m not saying that this ending completely ruins the entire game or anything, but it does really leave a sour taste in my mouth
i suppose one could say "TTYD has more RPG gameplay. Origami King has more RPG Story" while i don't agree on all points, this is nice food for thought and i enjoyed watching this i recently gave origami king another try and from what you told and showed i can confirm and agree. origami king is its own thing in its own way - and i like that a lot, so far
It's okay to like a bad game despite its flaws, just as it's okay to dislike a good game despite what everyone else says. I get it, I really do, I'm the world's only fan of Jimmy Negatron on the GBA and I'm not that crazy about Mario Galaxy. But this video is ridiculous, only saved by the fact that you at least acknowledge that the points you make is based on your own tastes. Respect the balls and hope you don't get grilled too hard lmao
While I respect a lot of your points, refusing to properly analyze the badge system and dismissing the battling completely because it's not for you throws away such a huge part of the game's overall hook. Enemies dont scale, health and damage is kept at low fractions so it's easy for anyone to understand exactly how effective their attacks are, without having to think about scaled numbers that do more damage than the enemies have health. And while it may seem broken, the leveling is designed in such a way where no matter how frequently you choose to upgrade one stat, you are never softlocked, you technically dont even have to grind. A skilled player can beat this game and make it through the 100 trails with 5HP 5FP. Another player might prefer to tank it out with a bunch of HP, or spam the best moves with FP, gameplay is scaled to how YOU prefer to play, which is exactly what you want in a role playing game. There's a lot of depth to this game's systems I think might take second playthrough by yourself to really click, but I do respect the rest of your opinion. Origami King is a far more consistent adventure and I think the hardware today has allowed modern Paper Mario to be a lot more visual with it's stories rather than relying heavily on narrative structure and turn based immersion, in many ways could be seen as the better choice. As much as I love TTYD, like many gamecube games, it was clearly very rushed and frontloaded, I actually think Paper Mario 64 did a lot better. But there's so much more room for improvement. In my opinion, the perfect Paper Mario game would be one that has the Open Level Design of Origami King, the inventivness and battle systems of TTYD, with the consistency and pacing of Paper Mario 64.
Here’s every paper Mario game and what they’re best at in my opinion: Paper Mario 64 has the best overworld design, the most charm, and it feels the most connected world. It also has a really good soundtrack. The thousand year door has the best battle system and the best partners. Super paper Mario has the best story, writing, and BY FAR the best villains. It also has a really good music. Sticker star has the best uhh… it’s unique I guess… I don’t like sticker star, ok? Color splash is actually not terrible in my opinion, but everything it does other games to better. I do like how the enemy health is demonstrated by them losing color, but ehhh. The origami king has the best visuals and a really good soundtrack. It also has really good partners. My personal ranking of paper Mario games: #6: sticker star, 3/10 #5: color splash, 6/10 #4: the origami king, 8.5/10 #3: the thousand year door, 8.8/10 #2: super paper Mario, 9/10 #1: paper Mario, 9.6/10 Paper Mario is my second favorite game ever, and my favorite is Celeste (which I would give a 10/10) Tell me If you disagree (I know you disagree with origami king at #4, I still really like TOK but I like the original trilogy better.)
Since everyone is arguing in the comments I just wanted to say that I didn't plan to watch this entire video but you didn't lose me for a second. You're great at explaining things, getting your point across and not really including any boring filler. Great video and I enjoyed TOK and TTYD about the same in different ways so I am happy to see either game get love.
Sticker star Generic enemies No story essentially No motavation for battling Cant choose what target to attack in battle Bosses that either are a joke with the thing stickers or a war of stamia Thing stickers not told where they are and what thing stickers are needed. Not even hints like color splash. No partners Ttyd Unqiue enemys A story and unqiue villian Xp to motivate battling Can choose who to attack in battle Partners with unqiue designs and personaility Bosses that last for a little bit and dont require specific things that turn them into a joke I can see people like orgami king better for some and heck i will give the game some credit at least compared to sticker star but with sticker star would you rather have all those things i just listed over the ttys things i listed.
I can already see how bad this comment section will become but I gotta say I love the points you brought up, I do think if we got TTYDs gameplay, and Origami Kings writing and characters (and add some unique designs) it would be an amazing pm game
Origami King was my third Paper Mario game. My second was Color Splash, and my first was Super. Origami King and the TTYD remake are both good in their own ways!
As a classic fan myself I only watch halfway point through your video and listen if you love modern paper Mario and enjoy the newer games I'm not attacking you I'm not knocking you for it .. what irritates me is is how people label the classic fans toxic without even understanding what we want we not saying newer games are bad we just don't like to changes. And Nintendo new the backlash but they continue to abandon the classic fans . So classic fans does have a reason to be upset. Don't get me wrong and it leads up to My only issue I have with modern fans they are not perfect either they troll on purpose it's like they start a uproar war. When did ttyd remake got announce the modern fans was attacking my comment section telling me I hope this game flop I'm not getting the game blah blah. I'm just saying so don't feel like I'm attacking you I just want to make my point across
This was... an interesting video to watch I do think TOK is incredibly overhated and does quite a lot better than TTYD (especially the level design, TTYD's level design is god awful). Can't say I agree on most of the video though I think a lot of criticisms for ttyd are nitpicks, I think the legion of stationary does serve gameplay well since real life objects = clearer weak points and you roughly know what they'll do just by looking at them (and having them be controlled just seems pointless), I think TOK looks significantly better than even the TTYD remake, etc I can't really comment much about combat since I never played TOK, but I can't disagree that TTYD's combat got kind of samey later on. Every TTYD boss did eventually became power lift and multi-use attacks. I do like having to think ahead though, I didn't like late game battles as much because I didn't have to with so many screen nuke options
If your game can be described as "Good in spite of it's gameplay", it has already lost every fight with every game that can't be described that way. You can like the rest of the game as much as you want, but that is the single greatest flaw any game can ever have. You can also like whatever games you want, but the worth of a critic is in their ability to be somewhat objective and think about what other people want. And... gameplay is at the top of that list. Paper Mario went 20 years without a game that couldn't be described as "Good in spite of it's gameplay" and that's very grim actually. Many series and most gamers would consider that a death sentence.
Based on what he said, he seems to like Origami King's gameplay more than TTYD in general. So honestly it seems like you're latching onto a point he didn't intend to emphasize.
TTYD has better story, better visuals (remake), better gameplay, better characters and better battle mechanics. While I can see that Origami King at least tried, it was way too gimmicky to be good. The battles are a gimmick themselves. Characters are uninteresting and have non-existent or vague personalities. Sorry bro, I respect your opinion, but you're telling us to believe something opposite of something that's subjective (Origami King is bad compared to TTYD). Origami King is a good game on its own, but compared to TTYD... it has some pretty obvious flaws. Plus most of the arguments you list here are either incomplete or straight up flawed.
I dig with most of your points. You put a lot of thought to it. The only thing I disagree with is when you say that the bosses are not relevant to the theme. The whole world is arts and crafts, even the bottomless holes are metal rods. The art supplies are there to make the game feel more paper like, ya dig? And I think the velementals are actually there to give the world more of an open world feeling. (with it feeling like an open world) it's a little like the way Legend of Zelda Tiers of the Kingdom is built. But all things a side this video is awesome
I need to tell you something; donother people's opinions influence you, just because 99.999999999999999999999% of fans worship ttyd (that means they love it so so much) doesn't mean you need to worship it too
nope sorry. origami king is boring. ttyd= better story and better gameplay i dont care if ttyd is an easy game , the gameplay conceptually is more enjoyable. but uf free to have ur opinion...that differs from the masses. there's more incentive to collect things in ttyd. u pbly like sticker star too blech! they shoulda kept the same formula as the ttyd and 64 and just made a new game. its not about "the better message" either its about what is more ENTERTAINING!!!!
I get your point. The gameplay in TOK has a lot more variety and has its characters more involved with the story. For me I just not fan of how they didn't really give us any unique characters outside of Olivia and King Olly's reasoning not being deep enough for me to understand his actions.
I just finished TTYD, having played it for the first time I must say Origami King is the better one out of both. I feel many people feel nostalgic when it comes to TTYD. Enjoyed them both, but OK is better.
I think TTYD's battles are solid, but the level design tends to be extremely boring to me. In contrast, TOK has some of the best level design of any game I've ever played, but the battles are a snore.
@dukemon6163 64s level design is definetely great, but it's not quite the same as TOK. TOK has more of an action adventure Zelda game type feel, 64 is just TTYD but a little better imo.
@@draccqueen1770 PM64's areas are so much better than TTYD. You have mountains with actual height, a desert to get lost into, Forever Forest has many hidden paths with secrets, the Toy Box that needs you to explore and unlock the rails to proceed to different, Jade Jungle has so many different routes... and they are all expansive and actually use 3D space very well. The only blemish is Flower Fields being a hub for four hallways, but at least it has a central room. If it was in TTYD they would just make you go back and forth the whole thing like in Twilight Trail.
Wow, thank you for this huge video. I really like the argument you have. Even though TTYD is my favourite video game of all time I can see why Origami King is yours. I also enjoyed playing this game. But in the end I liked TTYD's gameplay better. However, I still can see your point why you like the Origami King so much. I think both are really cool games and it comes down to personal preferences to decide your favourite. So, awesome video, I mean it. I'm looking forward to seeing more in the future.
I dont agree on the battle system. I dont want to solve a freakin puzzle just let me battle. I would rather take ttyd most engaging battle system as it require me to genuinely plan out my attacks like a battle system should. Orgami king is like wow just do this and im done and then just screw the puzzle and attack as your never in danger. Ttyd punishes you for just trying to get through the batttle quickky and without much which is exaclty orgami kings problem.
Also the paper mario series is a rpg no matter how much nintendo or others may deny it. Even games like breath of the wild while change the gameplay alot still stay within their estbalished genre. Paper mario was made to be a rpg series and thats what it still is. Despite nintendo claming that its not they sure just have to keep putting in turn based battles. The foundation is there but its weak. Also, coins are not a good motavation to battle as they can be gotton everywhere. Ttyd does not have this problem. If you like orgami king more thats fine but not having a exclusive motivation to battle is bad game design.
After spending a lot of time with each I'm just gonna say it: TTYD is weak. Origami King has its flaws for sure. Like ring battles going from too easy to too hard without reason. Or how you don't have much motivation to participate in battles since XP growth was eliminated. But while TTYD excels in battles (only in comparison to other PM games mind you) it still falls flat in every other way. It's bland, ultra linear, unfunny, unmoving, and reflects that in the music as well. Origami King presents a much more fleshed out world that's more than simply moving right, has better writing and humor, and is such a memorable journey, in spite of the aggravating battle flaws. I'll take the frustration with a better game than a slightly better battle system packed in a crappier game. But you're right about the bosses
Bro basically says he likes origami king’s gameplay more than TTYD in general and the ttyd raiders are gonna come in at his door and hate on his opinion anyways and not even watch the video Now of course if he wants respect he shouldn’t disrespect by making fun of toxic or fans in general, but I gotta respect the choice of bravery anyways Although it’s his opinion, and you can’t act like that’s basically what he’s saying as he prefers Origami King more than TTYD and that is in his view, Origami King being better than TTYD
@@brandonmagnus4414 Yes you can indeed, what I said is people who are disrespectfully disagreeing You can disagree with it but just not in a rude way such like “bait use to be believable” and “are you high 😂”
@@gboogie3257I agree. Although I would add that in some cases you can call someone’s opinion “wrong” if it’s just blatantly of bad taste or really stupid (I’m not referring to this video btw). I don’t think the way you disagree has to always be of a respectful tone, like I could call someone an idiot sandwich for liking a video and that doesn’t invalidate my comment or mean that it’s uncalled for if the video is clearly and unequivocally wrong on all moral and ethical fronts. I will say that with this type of video, it’s dumb to shit on someone else’s parade that you don’t know unless your comment has substance and is maybe leaning towards debate or even constructive criticism. Those things are frequently misinterpreted as being disrespectful. I think that when a comment online has any negative connotation, even if the comment is more nuanced or meaningful, it gets misinterpreted as an attack on the person. I’ll admit “bait used to be believable” and “are you high” aren’t in the “nuanced or meaningful” category without more context lol
@@brandonmagnus4414 half true, you can disagree with a opinion in a way but calling someone a idiot sandwich shows that it triggered you in some way otherwise you wouldn’t say it at all, so you clearly have some dislike or hate towards the person who made it
@@gboogie3257 You’re right, it would be predatory if I were to actually call someone that, it was a dumb example, but in that case adding a “stern disapproval” type comment would certainly be justified
when TOK came out i tried so hard to explain to my freinds why i prefer it to TTYD, failing to do so, but this video have summarized it so perfectly, i really liked it
@@TheGreatVoicemancer everyone did watch it, just cause u have an in depth review or opinion, doesn't make u correct. its just that no one is here to challenge his views on this video , unless someone makes a response video.
As much as i love Origami King, 1000 door left me completely disappointed. I cant even finish the game, because im bored. I wish i never bought this game tbh. Fell for hype "1000 door is the BEST paper mario game". No no and no. Not even close. It was best 20 years again. Now we have new king - Origami one😉
Really, the flimsiness of his motivation just highlights how deranged Olly is. He took a mild slight and elevated it into a horrible grudge that outside parties are forced to deal with. "Poor" motivations does not mean that a villain is bad.
@Josh-ql1zi Sadly, he didn't look because he felt too insulted by the mere act alone. It's not rational, but it definitely fit Olly's child-like persona well and serve as a contrast to his much more emotionally mature younger sister.
Better than Sticker Star Bowser.... but that's lowest and shittiest bar imaginable. Olly has the stupidest motive to be evil that I've ever seen. It was better if they let him be evil just because he was born was way.
i agree!! pmok was such an enjoyable experience to me. sorry about all the annoying people in the comments lol. i see that some are just stating that they disagree and such, but others are not beating the "paper purist" allegations lmfao
Im glad someone else shares my opinion. I played ttyd for the first time and it just isn't as good as people made it out to be. The gameplay isn't that fun for an rpg imo. It is just ok. I certainly didn't like it more than TOK. Where TOK succeeds is the sense of adventure, exploration, and writing. TTYD feels a bit boring at times and i never felt that way with TOK
The one thint I agree with you most strongly on is TEC just coming off creepy 😂thank you!! I will say, since you seem to think story is such a personal priority to you, and you critique TTYD's story, I question your thoughts on Super Paper Mario's story, because that one's my favorite. If story is so important to you, why do you prefer TOK to Super Paper Mario? Super has a great story... I'd argue the best!
Dont worry mister! I think modern paper mario is great! Im not salty it isnt like how it was 15 years ago, unlike everyone else on the planet it seems. Why does paper mario HAVE to act as an rpg to be a good game?
It's less about the modern games not being RPGs and more like them CLAIMING to not be RPGs yet still shoehorning turn based combat which is, I'd argue, one of the key elements of RPGs, and handling it very poorly (I mean, what's even the point of battling enemies if there's little to no incentive in doing so?). Plus, Super Paper Mario also isn't an RPG, and that game is considered good by quite a few people
![The Great Flavio - Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door [14]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/R3fKYN7hUNw/mqdefault.jpg)
what TTYD fan says they want less gameplay? one of the BEST things about TTYD is that you can challenge yourself, the game even has difficulty settings in the form of badges that make you take double damage. Leveling up does have an impact, and your inability to manage the easy system of badges doesn't take away that you can tackle combat in nearly any way you desire. I mean, i get what you're saying, but you sound disingenuous a lot of the time.
Why would u want to take double damage? To get double fun?) hmm🤔😏
Levelling up becomes non existent once you reach Level 37.
28:10
hard disagree, timers are almost never unnecessary because they fundamentally change how the game is played. In this case i like the timer because you need to think/act fast which prevents the player from having perfect performance 100% of the time
Well I do agree that origami king has a lot of value of its own and it is severely overhated unfortunately I do think a lot of its phenomenal execution is built on a weak foundation. Bobby's story and subsequent sacrifice is awesome, but the game has nothing else to offer that hits nearly as hard. Because the villains and most of the partners have little role in the actual story I feel like your enjoyment of Origami King's narrative can only go as far as how much you connect with Olly, Olivia, and Bobby. They had a good thing going with Olly but in the end I find his motivation comes off as corny, simply hating all toads because his creator wrote on him, really taking away from his believability and threatening presence as a villain when you realize his main drive stems from a little incident. Olivia is a wonderful character with a ton of fun moments and she really offers nothing to complain about, the worst thing you could really say about her is that she gets to have pretty much every cool character moment, as T.Ode, and the professor guy in the desert are mostly relegated to watching mario and olivia do their thing. I would've preferred if your partners quested around with you through multiple chapters to allow them to have a few more interesting moments of their own.
The other thing that takes the wind out of the game's sails is the world design. While the presentation is gorgeous and the level design is excellent, being filled with fun secrets and great sandbox puzzles and interactions, I find that this is just not an interesting world on a grand scale. Every villain is an invader, which leads to them all having the same concept of showing up and messing things up, without a deeper connection to the area they reside in. On top of this the concept of each area is very safe, and they were not designed to fit the story but rather the story was designed to fit them. With the exception of the blue streamer, every other area in the game is a surface level generic mario location with only slight hints of culture and deeper lore to draw you in and connect with your environment. There is nothing in this game that feels like it could only ever exist in Origami King, the levels don't even really stack up to a less story focused game like Mario Odyssey, and while they aren't sticker star levels of unoriginal they aren't really anything that captures the imagination beyond the surface level pretty visuals and solid level design. I would've had far more fun engaging in this world if they were able to bring more new ideas to the table, flex their creative muscles a bit more, but we're stuck with pretty generic mario locales. This extends to the npcs and enemies as well but I think that point has been beaten to death by every other person who critiques OK.
The battles are solid enough that I understand liking them more than ttyd's if you enjoy that style of puzzle, but for me I like open ended strategy with multiple viable solutions and plenty of ways to approach each problem rather than every battle having one set way to win and rendering every other approach outside of solving the puzzle correctly pointless. I find it interesting to call TTYD's battles repetitive when they have a far more open ended approach than Origami Kings, although I suppose in TTYD combat you are more limited by your own imagination. The game lays out a huge variety of tools and its up to you to make something out of it, whereas Origami King presents you with a neat little package of puzzles and basic action commands and lets you go from there. TTYD's strengths lay in figuring out new ways to approach your battles as you play and unlock more options, for example I found it extremely satisfying when I figured out how useful the badge which lets your partner act after switching out is, and its weaknesses are that every fight has the potential to play out extremely similarly if the player only chooses to use one move (like just using jump) every time for the entire game, never being directly forced into adding more variety to their playstyle outside of Grubba's conditions in the glitz pit. Origami King on the other hand builds variety directly into each combat encounter with the puzzle layout being different every time, but once you solve the puzzle the battle is basically over. For me I would not be willing to put up with something like the pit of 100 trials in Origami King because that would basically just be 100 slider puzzles in a row, whereas in ttyd its one of the best parts of the game because it allows you to buckle down and experiment your way through 100 fights.
honestly wondering how long this took you to type lol
@@Ngameing20 At least like 20 minutes lol
The part with the pit of 100 trials really speaks to me
I find the modern titles really hard to replay since their novelty wears off for me really fast
Meanwhile for 64/TTYD I could probably replay them an endless amount due to how they are built
ain't reading allat
You need to change the thumbnail and title, it’s attaching a lot of toxicity. BTW, good video but I disagree, I really like the badge system, and combat of TTYD. I also value the world building in TTYD more. Honestly I want a modern PM that has TOK level design and interconnected world, and the battle system of TTYD with even more badges. Then throw in the writing of Super plus partners, and the humor of color splash for the hell of it. Also playing as peach again would be nice, that’d likely since Nintendo is giving her more agency recently. Would like her as a partner even. I also think Bobby is somewhat undermined by the fact that OGK is the only PM game where Bob-Oms die after exploding, and just spamming them in airship section.
The problem with paper mario series is that, it is an RPG.
It is NOT supposed to be a gimmicky Paper themed game, it is supposed to be a normal RPG with mario. It was always seen as the spiritual successor to the Mario RPG alongside Mario and Luigi. We want actual characters, fun dialogue and RPG mechanics. Not an extremely gimmicky paper themed gameplay where the most character dept is "I exist to act as a plot device/gameplay mechanic"
Calling TTYD's combat repetitive but not TOK's sounds like a shitpost.
You're always becoming stronger in PM64/TTYD via getting more Badges, more Star abilities, more Partners. Which gives you more options to deal with all the different enemy types.
TOK's is the epitome of repetitive, stale and boring. You're always doing the same thing, it's always the same type of puzzle, you always win in the first turn without any opposition if you solve the ring, it never evolves, you don't get any reward for winning, Mario is always using the same attacks during the whole game.
Asking about choosing "Gameplay or Story" at the end sounds baffling, because that only shows how TTYD is superior in both. Since Sticker Star is been nothing but a plain downgrade from everything that came before.
Chill is just his opinion
Great video man, a lot of people will dismiss it but I thought it was really well made! It's nice to see a comparison between the two games that isn't just trolling or rage bait.
So, you like rpg stories but you don't like the rpg gameplay and fundamentals. Nice video
what
@@coronadesertorigami king's most notable departure from ttyd is by purposefully removing almost every rpg aspect (though origami king still has more than, like, sticker star did, but experience and switchable partners and star power and fp are all varyingly absent in every game after ttyd)
@@Goomba456that's true, but Nintendo has changed Paper Mario so much that its become controversial.
@@Goomba456technically rhis is wrong cause Super had XP level us and partner changes
@@PhantasticMrPhrog Mhm, though spm does remove badges, fp, partners (for the most part, pixls are effectively just new moves for mario), and turn based combat which while it wasn't meant to stay that way it definitely did.
This makes me wonder what your opinion is on super paper mario, if you've played it? In my opinion it has the strongest story in the entire series (albeit some of it is a little fan-fictiony lol).
It’s my second favorite. Although I haven’t played it in a few years.
Guys, i agree with him, let him cook, you can say your opinion, but for the love of God, please don't terrorize him
How come when Bobby blows up, he dies, but when Bobbery and Bombette blow up 19:07 , they’re completely fine?
I feel like you have a more casual view of gaming which makes your view of gaming flawed. In your argument for the story it sounds like you are actually leaning towards ttyd being the better game but then you quickly turn back to tok to try and prove your point. Another thing I noticed is that the story segment of your video takes up HALF of the video and the more important aspect of gaming which is gameplay is briefly mentioned and is very weak for your argumentative. Here's the thing if I want a story I will go read a book and enjoy the story of that book but when it comes to gaming I want to play the game which means that gameplay is more important to me than the story. What I want you to do is play both games again and leave out story elements play both games as fast as you can and as hard as you can and you will notice the differences in the aspects of gameplay.
11:18 uhh Vivian is tho
She may as well not be because she didn't say anything about Grodus's plan or her Sisters plans to spread rumors about the treasures so people would be interested in wanting to find the treasure.
@@CuteRedPanda64i honestly doubt she would have this information given not even TEC has access to that
The badges were the best things in Paper Mario 64 and TTYD. I was so sad when Nintendo gimped the combat system into oblivion in later installments of the series.
0:00 - 0:19 So then... Why not title your video as "Why I prefer the Origami King over Thousand Year Door"?
Even though I didn't watch the video (for no spoilers), I'm fine with your own opinion as much on how unpopular your opinion is.
Also, the Origami King was never hated. It just that there's some weird discussion they made. Like, remember the infamous information interview?
You make some great points about the game I personally still really liked ttyd better but you really do pull some great facts. I kinda wish their were more scenes where the partners come out automatically instead of whoever is with you especially in the scenes with beldam and maryilln, vivian only speaks when you have her. I would've really liked if the partners talked to each other more.
Your comment about Olly's motivation making more sense rings dull. Olly's motivation isn't that he hates being alive; he hates that his creator WROTE A MESSAGE ON HIM. He also hates that toads are bland (which is valid but still doesn't line up with the game's themes.) Olly is an ill-fitting villain in his game, and also doesn't get anywhere near as much screentime and character-building as Grodus OR the shadowqueen does, considering how much ttyd builds to the shadow queen, letting you know multiple chapters in advance that an evil demon is the real treasure and you're left biting your nails as to what that demon really could be. Grodus, while not antithetical to Mario in any particular way besides kidnapping Peach, does get plenty of time on screen for us to get to know how he acts, see his frustration at Mario's success, and see how he treats the X-Nauts. I'm not saying that Grodus brings thematic depth to TTYD, but I am saying that Olly does no such thing for TOK.
Your comment about partners not doing anything outside of their respective chapters is just flat-out not true. If you wanna see a game that treats its partners like just abilities, all you need to look at is Super Paper Mario. Pixls talk once when you find them and then never again. TTYD partners, on the other hand, act as all of the dialogue for team Mario, and the dialogue will change depending on who the partner is. Now, obviously, depending on your preference, some partners might never ever speak. I know most of my dialogue in ttyd was from Vivian, Yoshi, Goombella, and Bobbery, very little being from Flurrie or Koops; but that's still a lot. All of the party members that I'm traveling with feel like real people, even the ones I don't use all that much. They're believable characters. Maybe YOU feel like ttyd partners become just an ability, but I don't think that that's a fair objective criticism.
I will hear you out, i will probably not agree and i don't have nostalgia blindness. I only played as an adult for both
Well, at least you actually heard him out. Can't say the same for other people.
Thank you for actually hearing a dude out on a opinion on a Paper Mario game
If they made a paper mario game with origami king's open world and ttyd's gameplay and story, we'd have a perfect paper mario game.
With the balance and pacing of Paper Mario 64. Like many Gamecube games, TTYD has always felt rushed and frontloaded. Because of this, I think 64 does a lot better than TTYD, in terms of having a more consistent world, and better balance with it's structure. The next game has so many huge steps it could take to *completely* dethrone TTYD
@@JsYTA I agree.
Personally I prefer stories and vibrant and unique characters first over unique gameplay. I love classic rpg gameplay and I'm really not a fan of paper related plots. I really don't care for the wheel battle system, Bobby and others (besides Olivia) don't resonate with me because of their generic designs, and open and explorative worlds don't do it for me outside of sandbox games, I'd rather be put on a set path the author layed upon me.
While I do agree that OK uses Bowser and Luigi to a more meaningful extent, I really don't care for them, I've already seen their characters explored in other RPG Mario games like Super Mario RPG and the Mario & Luigi series. Luigi being an inconsequential gag character in Paper Mario was a joke that ended up turning into a major plot point in Super Paper Mario.
If you think that story is more important then gameplay then you are a fool because Nintendo always picks gameplay first over story 😠
If you care aboud story and characters more, then why are you even playing Nintendo games?
Ok I don't think you understand just because a character has a unique design doesn't automatically make them a good character. Of course I am not saying ttyd characters are bad they are just amazing. But I think Bobby showed that a unique designed character isnt the main reason why characters are loved of course it's definitely still a reason but more of the impact they make on you. But yeah I can agree Olivia and Bobby are the only two that I really loved remembering.
I don't know how you missed the symbolism with the shadow queen being defeated because of the combined efforts of all the people mario has helped along the way. Its the ultimate sendoff that ties everything together showing how important your deeds were to everyone who's lives were improved by your actions, and how they return the favor by giving you the power to actually defeat the shadow queen.
@@michaelr3077 it s a cliche move to be frank
@@uroskesic6117it’s a Mario RPG it’s not gonna innovate the fiction genre lol
bait used to be believable
ppl be calling ttyd defenders toxic while videos like this have ">" signs like they not trying to start an argument. also as a paper mario fan i gave OK a chance i'm no "puritan" or toxic fanboy , as OK fans like to hide behind the term. Even with ur explanation here, I could not find the game interesting, fun, or captivating like TTYD and it seems most ppl didnt, while a very few, such as yourself, did. But u cant sit here and say its better than ttyd, u cant just say "look" u SHOULD like OK better and it is better and then list a bunch of so called "reasons" as to why the masses have bad taste, because lets cut the crap, u might as well be saying: the masses have bad taste. when the masses didn't like it. Ur not some intellectual that grasped the concept better than others. ppl like a well rounded story and game mechanics, so even with examples in situations where u found more profound character interactions and plot points vs ttyd ( which again, no , it didn't go over ppls heads, ppl are smarter than ur giving them credit for), the masses found the "simplistic" as someone like u might call it , approach to plot points better in ttyd. because of the story book aspect of it, while OK is more like a drama film or something. get it? THEY DIDNT MISS THE PLOT they just like ttyd plot better!!! im guessing u just like soap style drama stories better, but didn't like the storybook aspect of ttyd , so u found it inferior. thank god they listened and made a remake. also there's more incentive to battle in ttyd vs OK even with battle repetition vs uniqueness. what point is there to battle unique monsters when grinding gives u more reward? EXP/COINS/BADGES/ITEMS u said it yourself, rpg battle system is not for u. it doesn't make it ">" but i get it u want vews so u went with an argumentative plot point , too make ppl come here.
While I respect this guy's opinion, I wholly agree with your argument. I too think it is pretty hypocritical of people to call "TTYD fans" (not even just classic fans, TTYD fans specifically) toxic while they pretty frequently go out of their way to start arguments with them then play victim when they're rightfully called out (and let it never be forgotten that simply calling out a bad take is completely different than outright harassing people for having an opinion). Even the title of the video is pretty bad, as it's almost like this guy is saying that TOK is better than TTYD like it's a fact and not just his opinion
While I still enjoy TOK, I kinda disagree on it being better than TTYD. Agree to disagree though, I still respect your opinion
In Chapter 7 in Fahr Outpost, Bobby is still alive in The Thousand Year Door Remake.
11:17 Just got suggested this video & there is a flaw in your argument that "none of the partners are related to Grodus or The Shadow Queen". Counterpoint: Vivian *was* fighting for Grodus & The Three Shadows until she decided to join Mario in Chapter 4 after he showed her an act of kindness by finding the cracked Super Bobomb. I don't see how Vivian wasn't connected to either Villain. By the end of the game, she's glad she changed sides and didn't stick it out with Beldam & the X-Nauts. Beldam would've briefed Vivian on WHY they needed the Crystal Stars anyway. I don't quite understand the argument, I guess.
Origami King has best music and visuals in my opinion (which is subjective and ignoring the remake), but apart of that...Dont get me wrong I dont dislike TOK, I think is a solid game, I can´t think of a reason why it would be better on any main gameplay or story point, which are the two most important things a game should have.
The ending is the most important part of any story. No matter how good an experience is, a bad ending can leave a bad taste in your mouth and make you not want to return to it. One of worst endings I’ve ever seen in a video game is paper Mario the origami king. I despise the ending to this game. It’s revealed that the reason the main villain of the game wanted to commit mass genocide, committed murder, committed attempted murder on his sister and mind control the thousands of people against their will was because his dad wrote on him, and he didn’t even bother to read what it said
Also Olivia’s wish is so stupid. She wishes that all of the origami her brother folded would be undone, which includes her. The problem with that wish is that it ignores the hundreds of people that die during the game. Every enemy that you fight in origami king is being mind controlled against their will by Olly. Mario killed a ton of innocent people on his way to stop Olly and the game just chooses to ignore that. And the only thing Olivia’s wish actually does is save somebody who is kidnapped on a weekly basis, fix a castle and kill herself. And Olivia’s “sacrifice” is stupid, because it was completely avoidable if she had thought about what wish she was gonna make for more than two seconds
What’s even stupider is the 1000 cranes technique. Something that was not mentioned at all during the entire game until the ending. Apparently, if you fold 1000 cranes, you are granted a wish. You’re telling me nobody has ever taken advantage of this before? Not Bowser? Not Dimentio? Nobody? Olivia doesn’t even fold 1000 cranes to get her wish. She only folds one. That defeats the entire purpose of the 1000 cranes technique in the first place. But ignoring that wouldn’t a way better wish for Olivia to have made would’ve been that after her brother folded her, he turned good. That way she would still be alive, her brother wouldn’t commit mass genocide and none of the terrible things that happened in the game would’ve happened. Bobby would even would still be alive. You could even have Kamek and Bowser jr actually sacrifice themselves and die in hotfoot crater, because their deaths would be undone. I suppose some people would have a problem with this being a “it was all just a dream type” ending but compared to the ending we got I think that’s 1000 times better
Oh and the cherry on top of all of it is that the final boss is really anticlimactic and lame. What makes it suck even more is that the build up to the final boss is so good but as soon as you enter Ollys throne room everything goes downhill. I’m not saying that this ending completely ruins the entire game or anything, but it does really leave a sour taste in my mouth
i suppose one could say "TTYD has more RPG gameplay. Origami King has more RPG Story"
while i don't agree on all points, this is nice food for thought and i enjoyed watching this
i recently gave origami king another try and from what you told and showed i can confirm and agree. origami king is its own thing in its own way - and i like that a lot, so far
It's okay to like a bad game despite its flaws, just as it's okay to dislike a good game despite what everyone else says.
I get it, I really do, I'm the world's only fan of Jimmy Negatron on the GBA and I'm not that crazy about Mario Galaxy.
But this video is ridiculous, only saved by the fact that you at least acknowledge that the points you make is based on your own tastes.
Respect the balls and hope you don't get grilled too hard lmao
One thing about the origami king is that it has in world battles with the macho enemies with unique elements,
While I respect a lot of your points, refusing to properly analyze the badge system and dismissing the battling completely because it's not for you throws away such a huge part of the game's overall hook. Enemies dont scale, health and damage is kept at low fractions so it's easy for anyone to understand exactly how effective their attacks are, without having to think about scaled numbers that do more damage than the enemies have health. And while it may seem broken, the leveling is designed in such a way where no matter how frequently you choose to upgrade one stat, you are never softlocked, you technically dont even have to grind. A skilled player can beat this game and make it through the 100 trails with 5HP 5FP. Another player might prefer to tank it out with a bunch of HP, or spam the best moves with FP, gameplay is scaled to how YOU prefer to play, which is exactly what you want in a role playing game. There's a lot of depth to this game's systems I think might take second playthrough by yourself to really click, but I do respect the rest of your opinion. Origami King is a far more consistent adventure and I think the hardware today has allowed modern Paper Mario to be a lot more visual with it's stories rather than relying heavily on narrative structure and turn based immersion, in many ways could be seen as the better choice. As much as I love TTYD, like many gamecube games, it was clearly very rushed and frontloaded, I actually think Paper Mario 64 did a lot better. But there's so much more room for improvement. In my opinion, the perfect Paper Mario game would be one that has the Open Level Design of Origami King, the inventivness and battle systems of TTYD, with the consistency and pacing of Paper Mario 64.
Did Super Origami Kingdom write this?
Dogseatingdogs6 would praise this video
Finally someone who speak facts!
Here’s every paper Mario game and what they’re best at in my opinion:
Paper Mario 64 has the best overworld design, the most charm, and it feels the most connected world. It also has a really good soundtrack.
The thousand year door has the best battle system and the best partners.
Super paper Mario has the best story, writing, and BY FAR the best villains. It also has a really good music.
Sticker star has the best uhh… it’s unique I guess… I don’t like sticker star, ok?
Color splash is actually not terrible in my opinion, but everything it does other games to better. I do like how the enemy health is demonstrated by them losing color, but ehhh.
The origami king has the best visuals and a really good soundtrack. It also has really good partners.
My personal ranking of paper Mario games:
#6: sticker star, 3/10
#5: color splash, 6/10
#4: the origami king, 8.5/10
#3: the thousand year door, 8.8/10
#2: super paper Mario, 9/10
#1: paper Mario, 9.6/10
Paper Mario is my second favorite game ever, and my favorite is Celeste (which I would give a 10/10)
Tell me If you disagree (I know you disagree with origami king at #4, I still really like TOK but I like the original trilogy better.)
agree with most points, but ttyd is also filled with plot holes that made me not care about the story when the door opened
Since everyone is arguing in the comments I just wanted to say that I didn't plan to watch this entire video but you didn't lose me for a second. You're great at explaining things, getting your point across and not really including any boring filler. Great video and I enjoyed TOK and TTYD about the same in different ways so I am happy to see either game get love.
I would put them in the same place.Both games have good and bad stuff in them
As much as i enjoy origami king, i still think the first 3 games are better than origami king
Good Video. You have some points. I also prefer The Origami King (and the other modern Paper Marios) above The Thousand Year Door.
Big dawg
Sticker star
Generic enemies
No story essentially
No motavation for battling
Cant choose what target to attack in battle
Bosses that either are a joke with the thing stickers or a war of stamia
Thing stickers not told where they are and what thing stickers are needed. Not even hints like color splash.
No partners
Ttyd
Unqiue enemys
A story and unqiue villian
Xp to motivate battling
Can choose who to attack in battle
Partners with unqiue designs and personaility
Bosses that last for a little bit and dont require specific things that turn them into a joke
I can see people like orgami king better for some and heck i will give the game some credit at least compared to sticker star but with sticker star would you rather have all those things i just listed over the ttys things i listed.
I can already see how bad this comment section will become but I gotta say I love the points you brought up, I do think if we got TTYDs gameplay, and Origami Kings writing and characters (and add some unique designs) it would be an amazing pm game
Honestly the best opinion I've seen on the matter
I can agree if you said Origami King is better then 64 but ttyd? Nahhh bro
Just play puzzle games if you like Origami King since its all you do in Origami King
Yeah, just play paper Mario if you like playing paper Mario.
Like bro?
The only thing that matters is bobby
Origami King was my third Paper Mario game. My second was Color Splash, and my first was Super. Origami King and the TTYD remake are both good in their own ways!
As a classic fan myself I only watch halfway point through your video and listen if you love modern paper Mario and enjoy the newer games I'm not attacking you I'm not knocking you for it .. what irritates me is is how people label the classic fans toxic without even understanding what we want we not saying newer games are bad we just don't like to changes. And Nintendo new the backlash but they continue to abandon the classic fans . So classic fans does have a reason to be upset. Don't get me wrong and it leads up to My only issue I have with modern fans they are not perfect either they troll on purpose it's like they start a uproar war. When did ttyd remake got announce the modern fans was attacking my comment section telling me I hope this game flop I'm not getting the game blah blah. I'm just saying so don't feel like I'm attacking you I just want to make my point across
I mean…
You’re both not wrong
Never let this man cook again
Lets let him cook again.
I'm letting this man cook again, cause I agree with him.
@@Squidveemo I mean it is his opinion so….
@@Squidveemo Bad taste
@@tetermc Damn, going for the throat, I see.
We have differing opinions, that's all.
This was... an interesting video to watch
I do think TOK is incredibly overhated and does quite a lot better than TTYD (especially the level design, TTYD's level design is god awful). Can't say I agree on most of the video though
I think a lot of criticisms for ttyd are nitpicks, I think the legion of stationary does serve gameplay well since real life objects = clearer weak points and you roughly know what they'll do just by looking at them (and having them be controlled just seems pointless), I think TOK looks significantly better than even the TTYD remake, etc
I can't really comment much about combat since I never played TOK, but I can't disagree that TTYD's combat got kind of samey later on. Every TTYD boss did eventually became power lift and multi-use attacks. I do like having to think ahead though, I didn't like late game battles as much because I didn't have to with so many screen nuke options
TOK doesn’t even have a post-game bro 💀💀💀💖
And?
So? TTYD only has one to do optional side quests for. There is no new story after beating the final boss. Doesn’t really make a difference either way.
@@king_poyo64 Glad the remake did something at the very least, those two bosses makes it more interesting.
@@king_poyo64 still would cool to see a post game origami king. If TTYD could do it, Origami King on a modern console has no excuse.
@@papermr.magolorguy7957 Yeah, but it’s not a point against TOK. If anything it’s a minor nitpick.
If your game can be described as "Good in spite of it's gameplay", it has already lost every fight with every game that can't be described that way. You can like the rest of the game as much as you want, but that is the single greatest flaw any game can ever have. You can also like whatever games you want, but the worth of a critic is in their ability to be somewhat objective and think about what other people want. And... gameplay is at the top of that list. Paper Mario went 20 years without a game that couldn't be described as "Good in spite of it's gameplay" and that's very grim actually. Many series and most gamers would consider that a death sentence.
Based on what he said, he seems to like Origami King's gameplay more than TTYD in general. So honestly it seems like you're latching onto a point he didn't intend to emphasize.
@@almondjoy4938or they never bothered to actually watch the video , which is a vibe I get from a lot of these comments.
@@king_poyo64
That is a definite possibility.
TTYD has better story, better visuals (remake), better gameplay, better characters and better battle mechanics. While I can see that Origami King at least tried, it was way too gimmicky to be good. The battles are a gimmick themselves. Characters are uninteresting and have non-existent or vague personalities. Sorry bro, I respect your opinion, but you're telling us to believe something opposite of something that's subjective (Origami King is bad compared to TTYD). Origami King is a good game on its own, but compared to TTYD... it has some pretty obvious flaws. Plus most of the arguments you list here are either incomplete or straight up flawed.
I dig with most of your points. You put a lot of thought to it.
The only thing I disagree with is when you say that the bosses are not relevant to the theme.
The whole world is arts and crafts, even the bottomless holes are metal rods. The art supplies are there to make the game feel more paper like, ya dig?
And I think the velementals are actually there to give the world more of an open world feeling. (with it feeling like an open world) it's a little like the way Legend of Zelda Tiers of the Kingdom is built.
But all things a side this video is awesome
hard disagree honestly. i have to say that tok definitely doesn't deserve most of the hate! its an okay game but honestly i do prefer ttyd haha
I agree with you. You really show your opinion fairly
I need to tell you something; donother people's opinions influence you, just because 99.999999999999999999999% of fans worship ttyd (that means they love it so so much) doesn't mean you need to worship it too
Look, Origami King is my second favorite Paper Mario game behind you know who, but these has got to be bad reasonings lmao
nope sorry. origami king is boring. ttyd= better story and better gameplay i dont care if ttyd is an easy game , the gameplay conceptually is more enjoyable. but uf free to have ur opinion...that differs from the masses. there's more incentive to collect things in ttyd. u pbly like sticker star too blech! they shoulda kept the same formula as the ttyd and 64 and just made a new game. its not about "the better message" either its about what is more ENTERTAINING!!!!
Do origami king livestream
I want too
One other message of tok is courage
This take is hotter than the sun lol
I get your point. The gameplay in TOK has a lot more variety and has its characters more involved with the story. For me I just not fan of how they didn't really give us any unique characters outside of Olivia and King Olly's reasoning not being deep enough for me to understand his actions.
you are a more on
I totally agree with you
I just finished TTYD, having played it for the first time I must say Origami King is the better one out of both. I feel many people feel nostalgic when it comes to TTYD. Enjoyed them both, but OK is better.
For you maybe.
I think TTYD's battles are solid, but the level design tends to be extremely boring to me.
In contrast, TOK has some of the best level design of any game I've ever played, but the battles are a snore.
If TOK had TTYD'S battle mechanic THEN it would have been perfect.
Course then again TOK has different varieties of battle mechanics
*Paper Mario 64:* I have both
@dukemon6163 64s level design is definetely great, but it's not quite the same as TOK.
TOK has more of an action adventure Zelda game type feel, 64 is just TTYD but a little better imo.
@@draccqueen1770 PM64's areas are so much better than TTYD. You have mountains with actual height, a desert to get lost into, Forever Forest has many hidden paths with secrets, the Toy Box that needs you to explore and unlock the rails to proceed to different, Jade Jungle has so many different routes... and they are all expansive and actually use 3D space very well.
The only blemish is Flower Fields being a hub for four hallways, but at least it has a central room. If it was in TTYD they would just make you go back and forth the whole thing like in Twilight Trail.
Just finished this, awesome job on the editing! Also, had no prior bias on Paper Mario games and you swayed my opinion!
April fools was two months ago
Is not a April fools joke
You are sooo right
Wow, thank you for this huge video. I really like the argument you have. Even though TTYD is my favourite video game of all time I can see why Origami King is yours. I also enjoyed playing this game. But in the end I liked TTYD's gameplay better. However, I still can see your point why you like the Origami King so much. I think both are really cool games and it comes down to personal preferences to decide your favourite.
So, awesome video, I mean it. I'm looking forward to seeing more in the future.
I dont agree on the battle system. I dont want to solve a freakin puzzle just let me battle. I would rather take ttyd most engaging battle system as it require me to genuinely plan out my attacks like a battle system should. Orgami king is like wow just do this and im done and then just screw the puzzle and attack as your never in danger. Ttyd punishes you for just trying to get through the batttle quickky and without much which is exaclty orgami kings problem.
Also the paper mario series is a rpg no matter how much nintendo or others may deny it. Even games like breath of the wild while change the gameplay alot still stay within their estbalished genre. Paper mario was made to be a rpg series and thats what it still is. Despite nintendo claming that its not they sure just have to keep putting in turn based battles. The foundation is there but its weak. Also, coins are not a good motavation to battle as they can be gotton everywhere. Ttyd does not have this problem. If you like orgami king more thats fine but not having a exclusive motivation to battle is bad game design.
After spending a lot of time with each I'm just gonna say it: TTYD is weak. Origami King has its flaws for sure. Like ring battles going from too easy to too hard without reason. Or how you don't have much motivation to participate in battles since XP growth was eliminated. But while TTYD excels in battles (only in comparison to other PM games mind you) it still falls flat in every other way. It's bland, ultra linear, unfunny, unmoving, and reflects that in the music as well. Origami King presents a much more fleshed out world that's more than simply moving right, has better writing and humor, and is such a memorable journey, in spite of the aggravating battle flaws. I'll take the frustration with a better game than a slightly better battle system packed in a crappier game. But you're right about the bosses
Is it April Fool's Day already again? Lmfao 💀😂
🤨
Bro basically says he likes origami king’s gameplay more than TTYD in general and the ttyd raiders are gonna come in at his door and hate on his opinion anyways and not even watch the video
Now of course if he wants respect he shouldn’t disrespect by making fun of toxic or fans in general, but I gotta respect the choice of bravery anyways
Although it’s his opinion, and you can’t act like that’s basically what he’s saying as he prefers Origami King more than TTYD and that is in his view, Origami King being better than TTYD
You’re allowed not to like someone’s opinion. I also think a lot of the people who disagree with this video brought up a lot of good points
@@brandonmagnus4414 Yes you can indeed, what I said is people who are disrespectfully disagreeing
You can disagree with it but just not in a rude way such like “bait use to be believable” and “are you high 😂”
@@gboogie3257I agree. Although I would add that in some cases you can call someone’s opinion “wrong” if it’s just blatantly of bad taste or really stupid (I’m not referring to this video btw). I don’t think the way you disagree has to always be of a respectful tone, like I could call someone an idiot sandwich for liking a video and that doesn’t invalidate my comment or mean that it’s uncalled for if the video is clearly and unequivocally wrong on all moral and ethical fronts.
I will say that with this type of video, it’s dumb to shit on someone else’s parade that you don’t know unless your comment has substance and is maybe leaning towards debate or even constructive criticism. Those things are frequently misinterpreted as being disrespectful. I think that when a comment online has any negative connotation, even if the comment is more nuanced or meaningful, it gets misinterpreted as an attack on the person.
I’ll admit “bait used to be believable” and “are you high” aren’t in the “nuanced or meaningful” category without more context lol
@@brandonmagnus4414 half true, you can disagree with a opinion in a way but calling someone a idiot sandwich shows that it triggered you in some way otherwise you wouldn’t say it at all, so you clearly have some dislike or hate towards the person who made it
@@gboogie3257 You’re right, it would be predatory if I were to actually call someone that, it was a dumb example, but in that case adding a “stern disapproval” type comment would certainly be justified
when TOK came out i tried so hard to explain to my freinds why i prefer it to TTYD, failing to do so, but this video have summarized it so perfectly, i really liked it
Very much disagree, but respect opinion 🤝
pops
No it’s just not
Can you just watch the vid before you say this?
@@TheGreatVoicemancer everyone did watch it, just cause u have an in depth review or opinion, doesn't make u correct. its just that no one is here to challenge his views on this video , unless someone makes a response video.
@@lui1115 you REALLY should not be talking right now.
@@lui1115did he say it was correct?
Very hot take
Bro I am still playing the game and he just spoiled so much 0_0
I put a spoiler warning for both games
I finshed the origami king but I am on paper Mario the thousand year door I am on chapter 4 but I am sorry I didn’t see the spoiler waring
Worthless ragebait. Not worth the watch
Dude did not grow up playing Paper Mario ttyd.
TOK has also better writing.
As much as i love Origami King, 1000 door left me completely disappointed. I cant even finish the game, because im bored.
I wish i never bought this game tbh. Fell for hype "1000 door is the BEST paper mario game". No no and no. Not even close. It was best 20 years again. Now we have new king - Origami one😉
RAAAAAHHHH MARIO & LUIGI BOWSERS INSIDE STORY IS BETTER THAN BOTH!!!!!!!!!+!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
King Olly is probably the worst Mario villain ever. His design is cool, but his motivation is more flimsy than the paper he's made of.
*cough* grodus *cough*
Really, the flimsiness of his motivation just highlights how deranged Olly is. He took a mild slight and elevated it into a horrible grudge that outside parties are forced to deal with. "Poor" motivations does not mean that a villain is bad.
@@realtbhandrew Grodus's motivations make sense and if Olly looked at his own body, the plot of Origami King never would have happened.
@Josh-ql1zi
Sadly, he didn't look because he felt too insulted by the mere act alone. It's not rational, but it definitely fit Olly's child-like persona well and serve as a contrast to his much more emotionally mature younger sister.
Better than Sticker Star Bowser.... but that's lowest and shittiest bar imaginable.
Olly has the stupidest motive to be evil that I've ever seen. It was better if they let him be evil just because he was born was way.
Doesn't matter Uncle Ben, Super Paper Mario is better than both
Based
Bro just upgrade your BP.
I love you don't let the hate get to you I stand with your opinion cause I also love the origami king
click bait, TOK is good but it's no TTYD
origami king is a fantastic, underrated game. it may have a few flaws here and there, but its strong aspects are phenomenal.
i agree!! pmok was such an enjoyable experience to me. sorry about all the annoying people in the comments lol. i see that some are just stating that they disagree and such, but others are not beating the "paper purist" allegations lmfao
Im glad someone else shares my opinion. I played ttyd for the first time and it just isn't as good as people made it out to be. The gameplay isn't that fun for an rpg imo. It is just ok. I certainly didn't like it more than TOK. Where TOK succeeds is the sense of adventure, exploration, and writing. TTYD feels a bit boring at times and i never felt that way with TOK
Origami King is dogwater compared to ttyd.
I disrespect your opinion
I mean that TTYD is the best paper mario and the original paper mario goes in second *in my opinion*
The one thint I agree with you most strongly on is TEC just coming off creepy 😂thank you!!
I will say, since you seem to think story is such a personal priority to you, and you critique TTYD's story, I question your thoughts on Super Paper Mario's story, because that one's my favorite. If story is so important to you, why do you prefer TOK to Super Paper Mario? Super has a great story... I'd argue the best!
Kinda Sucks for Luigi in the final boss though.
Yeah the gameplay of super is kinda bad
lmfao
Ironically OGK is the one with more story, figures.
Are you high? 😂😂😂😂😂😂
I know what you're saying.. SO SHUT UP, ITS JUST AN OPINION
Dont worry mister! I think modern paper mario is great! Im not salty it isnt like how it was 15 years ago, unlike everyone else on the planet it seems. Why does paper mario HAVE to act as an rpg to be a good game?
It's less about the modern games not being RPGs and more like them CLAIMING to not be RPGs yet still shoehorning turn based combat which is, I'd argue, one of the key elements of RPGs, and handling it very poorly (I mean, what's even the point of battling enemies if there's little to no incentive in doing so?). Plus, Super Paper Mario also isn't an RPG, and that game is considered good by quite a few people
You and I we are like brothers
I agree with you