Would be nice to see a comparison of the same pc, same exact settings but swapping between the gpu’s. Certainly when the 5000 series cards come out, people want to understand the kind of performance increases they can expect if they only upgrade their gpu.
correct. i switched from 10900k to 14900k and from 32 ddr4 to 64 ddr5, and same 3080ti. Another level. 4090 is just a plus. With that CPU (9900k 10900k you are already bottlenecked with 3080ti
I can easily tell you what that would do. You would have a significant CPU bottleneck with the 9900 k and a 4090. So significant, in fact, that you probably wouldn't see any FPS gains.
@@niconet84 What does another level mean ? Can you please tell how much percent FPS increase you averagely got after CPU upgrade ? For example : 20% - 30 % increase just by upgrading the CPU Thnak you for a more detailed answer .
Finally, there’s a review that provides an understanding of the performance of different generations of graphics cards in VR. Now, at least, i understand what i need to buy. It would be great to add tests for Cyberpunk and Star Citizen.
Just a thought.. the 4090 with crystals resolution of 2880x2880 is a challenge for the best GPU.. I don’t know how even a 5090 would maintain 90fps in some demanding simulators on highest settings let alone the new ultra high 4K per eye Pimax super.. looks like we need a 6090 for the newest gen VR headsets
So ridiculous. These cards should not be so expensive if it'll take until a 6090 to actually get decent performance. Can't believe Nvidia got away with this, but a lot of this is the consumer's fault.
@RandomNoise I have ordered one a month ago still says preparing shipment. What was your experience like? Are the visuals any good? I am already disappointed with their customer service and communication. Having buyers remorse right now.
@@sabirayaz7893 yes, customer service is a joke. It's like buying from AliExpress 😀 I just hope you will receive a good unit. Visuals are ok, but there is so much motion blur when you move the head. and chromatic aberration is killing me
@@CaptainBiggles. cheap plastic, uncomfortable, even with extra comfort strap, and thicker face pad. no edge to edge clarity, eye strain, motion blurriness...
@@RandomNoise Oh dear! I also found mine really uncomfortable to start with, and I keep meaning to buy an extra comfort strap and thicker foam but haven't got round to it, and nearly 3 months later I've got used to it so I don't notice the discomfort much anymore. Motion blurriness is definitely more of a thing at low framerates, I noticed it more at 30-45fps than at 72-90
I do not understand why you would change graphics setting between the two setups. It would have been super helpful to see the performances difference at same graphics settings....
Thanks for sharing your experience. The 4060 Ti might not quite meet the recommended graphics card specs. For a better VR experience with ultra settings, the recommended ones are RTX 3080, RTX 4070, RTX 3080 Ti, RTX 4070 S, RTX 3090 Ti, RX 6800XT, RX 6900XT, and RX 6950XT. Hope this helps you out if you're looking to upgrade in the future! ❤
@@renarddegaulle1204 How big is the difference ? I also have a 9900K and thought about upgrading my CPU before buying the upcoming RTX5090 ( upgrading from 2080Ti ) Isn´t it the graphics card that does all the main work in 4K Resolution ( or 2x4K Resolution when using a VR headset ) ?
Pimax desperately using RUclipsrs to try to convince consumers all is well with their products. It's not though is it Pimax ? The games up for you, everyone knows your tactics now. Last chance, make drastic improvements or you're finished soon.
@@danielecarmona Totally subjective, I prefer not seeing trashy image quality pixelated/blurry/low detail, etc. with no jumping stutter fps Over high FPS, I do Sim Racing, a lot more speed of things happening than Flight Sim and I don't see too much difference between 72hz/fps and 90hz/fps, and 120hz/fps it's a total waste of resources, in 2D you notice a lot more the need of fps on some RPG games, and Sim than in VR. 72 or 80 it's more than enough for most of the time. And most of all it's not about how many FPS you get, it's the CONSTANT number of FPS, that create the good illusion of smooth movement, the brain detect changes/stutter a lot more than a fixed constant number of fps vs stutter changing number of fps, stuttering ruin the experience, constant lower fps don't, remember that Cinema it's 24fps and nobody cares too much.
@@SuperDigitalAI you're confusing FPS with Hz, those are different things, refresh rate is not related to FPS, "Frame rate determines how detailed an image might appear to one's eye, while refresh rate determines how smooth (the input lag) the images appear to the eye."
@@danielecarmona Sorry, I think that you are confused, FPS and HZ must be the same in SYNC to be effective and to have smooth motion. so, you have your headset at 72hz, the IDEAL number of frames per second to watch on that headset it is and it should be 72 fps fixed all the time, that's called Vertical Sync. If not, you will see stutter or deformed frames. That's why I told you all that before, because 90hz means that you NEED to be constant at 90FPS to watch a true real good smooth motion at 90hz. if not, you are seeing stutters, jumps, etc. VR Headsets are not Freesync, nor GSync capable.
@AEFox if what you say it would be true then if in that game you have only 30 fps you should have 30 Hz and that's not possible, fps and Hz again are two different things and you're confusing them. This was an Nvidia explanation: FPS and Hz are often interchanged and misused in the gaming world. Hz is defined as cycles per second, and is most commonly associated with your display. They both describe a completion rate, but by different components in your PC’s rendering system. Simply put, FPS is the rate at which your system, and in particular, your GPU completes frames and Hz is the rate at which your display shows those completed frames. These rates are not the same. The GPU can complete frames faster or slower than the display can show them. This variation in frame time is caused by differences in the complexity of the 3D scene being rendered - for example, an explosion in one scene may take more time to render than the prior scene. Hz on the other hand generally a constant rate and does not vary based on scene complexity. 60Hz is 60 times per second, 144Hz is 144 times per second, and so on. There are displays that can vary their refresh rate, but as a simplification here, we'll assume a constant refresh rate display. FPS is typically a rolling average over many seconds since frame times are not consistent from frame to frame. A good way to think about FPS is: ‘how many frames, on average, does the GPU complete per second.’ When the FPS and the Hz differ, you can experience effects like tearing, but we will get into that later. At the end of the day; GPU -> FPS, Display -> Hz. For the best performance, you want both to be high.
don't get a 4070(ti) got slow memory bus, 3080 is just as fast because it's got a much better memory bus. So for VR get a second hand 3090 or at least a 4080/90. But better wait for the new generation.
I upgraded my PC 2 years ago from i9 9900k/rtx3090/z390mb/32Gb 3000 ram to a i9 13900k/rtx4090/z790mb/32Gb 6400 ram and got at least a 50% fps improvement with msfs2020 in VR. Hopefully this will do me for another 2-3 years. I normally like to skip nvidia series updates, so maybe the rtx6090 with the then latest mb and CPU.
in vr what counts more is stutters/microstutters not how high fps goes. Any small change in fps (even 1fps) will cause a stutter. If you were at a very low but rock solid fps there would be no stutter. Your fps is all over the place so you must have stutters everywhere.. You made no mention of smoothness.
This is exactly what I was thinking while watching the video. My experience with the Crystal light is I can't stand the stuttering and microstutters. Sure I could play it as it, but it drives me crazy when considering I'm running a Ryzen 7 9800X3D with a 4090 and it stutters like hell. I've gone back to my G2 which just plain works period.
@@David-c5l I simply cannot play in VR with stutters. so unfortunatley I go down on resolution and other tweaks so I get stable non-stuttering fps. It sucks but I aint going back to 2D no way
@David-c5l hey, I found the same issue on Pimax CL in DCS. Try the 'Lock to half frame rate' setting and '90hz upscaled' setting. You're locked to 45 frames, but it stays there. Counterintuitively it runs smooth as glass. I'm a photographer - I pixel peep and I'm a frame wh*re, but it feels like 90fps and you can really push the quality settings. I'm running an i7-13700k and 4080 super, 32gb RAM, so you'll be able to push the quality settings even more than me. The game looks beautifully sharp and smooth, even on multiplayer. Let me know how you get on 🤙🏼.
@@michaelwilkinson1985 Michael, you fixed the problem! Those two things solved the stuttering issue--incredible. Been struggling with this since October--can't thank you enough!
I'ved changed gpus for years trying to get my 8kx to play nice at native resolution, always end up having to lowering it. The native resolution is super nice, however, I get motion sickness from anything below 90fps, so that's that. I'm glad I skipped the rtx 4090, was not worth the price at all.
Beware of anyone who says that they are happy with any fps lower than the refresh rate of the headset. It will always cause stutter which will ruin your vr experience. 60fps is incredible and fantastic?? ok...Definitely a stutterfest..Very misleading overview
Would be nice to see a comparison of the same pc, same exact settings but swapping between the gpu’s. Certainly when the 5000 series cards come out, people want to understand the kind of performance increases they can expect if they only upgrade their gpu.
correct. i switched from 10900k to 14900k and from 32 ddr4 to 64 ddr5, and same 3080ti. Another level. 4090 is just a plus. With that CPU (9900k 10900k you are already bottlenecked with 3080ti
I can easily tell you what that would do. You would have a significant CPU bottleneck with the 9900 k and a 4090. So significant, in fact, that you probably wouldn't see any FPS gains.
@@niconet84 What does another level mean ? Can you please tell how much percent FPS increase you averagely got after CPU upgrade ?
For example : 20% - 30 % increase just by upgrading the CPU
Thnak you for a more detailed answer .
Finally, there’s a review that provides an understanding of the performance of different generations of graphics cards in VR. Now, at least, i understand what i need to buy. It would be great to add tests for Cyberpunk and Star Citizen.
Just a thought.. the 4090 with crystals resolution of 2880x2880 is a challenge for the best GPU.. I don’t know how even a 5090 would maintain 90fps in some demanding simulators on highest settings let alone the new ultra high 4K per eye Pimax super.. looks like we need a 6090 for the newest gen VR headsets
the super has eye tracking though, so foveated rendering is really gonna help
@@Zolbat That part, the foveated rendering is there to keep performance up only in the area the eye is looking.
So ridiculous. These cards should not be so expensive if it'll take until a 6090 to actually get decent performance. Can't believe Nvidia got away with this, but a lot of this is the consumer's fault.
Looking forward your review on Pimax Crystal Super around CES… compare both 57ppd and 50ppd.
Sponsored video. believe me, I have a Pimax Crystal Light, and its not as nearly as good as youtubers are presenting it.
I have a crystal light and it’s awesome. What’s wrong with yours?
@RandomNoise I have ordered one a month ago still says preparing shipment. What was your experience like? Are the visuals any good? I am already disappointed with their customer service and communication. Having buyers remorse right now.
@@sabirayaz7893 yes, customer service is a joke. It's like buying from AliExpress 😀
I just hope you will receive a good unit. Visuals are ok, but there is so much motion blur when you move the head. and chromatic aberration is killing me
@@CaptainBiggles. cheap plastic, uncomfortable, even with extra comfort strap, and thicker face pad. no edge to edge clarity, eye strain, motion blurriness...
@@RandomNoise Oh dear! I also found mine really uncomfortable to start with, and I keep meaning to buy an extra comfort strap and thicker foam but haven't got round to it, and nearly 3 months later I've got used to it so I don't notice the discomfort much anymore. Motion blurriness is definitely more of a thing at low framerates, I noticed it more at 30-45fps than at 72-90
good idea to record with an external camera so folks can see the fps w/o the OBS (or whatever record method you utilize) - perf hit. good video
I do not understand why you would change graphics setting between the two setups. It would have been super helpful to see the performances difference at same graphics settings....
Thanks for taking the time to do this testing. I have the crystal light, I7, RTX 4060 TI 8GB, 64GB ram. cant run on ultra in VR.
Thanks for sharing your experience. The 4060 Ti might not quite meet the recommended graphics card specs. For a better VR experience with ultra settings, the recommended ones are RTX 3080, RTX 4070, RTX 3080 Ti, RTX 4070 S, RTX 3090 Ti, RX 6800XT, RX 6900XT, and RX 6950XT. Hope this helps you out if you're looking to upgrade in the future! ❤
Dynamic foveated rendering is must in VR
Computer 1: I9 14900K - 4090 - 64GB Ram
Computer 2: I9 9900k - 3080TI - 64 GB Ram
also good idea to test with your lower spec PC. Excellent job man
@@Sandboxcode Why? The i9 9900k is already a bottleneck, even with a 3080ti, lol!
@@tomc1380 Totally correct. I recently went from an i9-9900k/3080ti to a 9800x3d 3080ti, and the difference is significant.
@@renarddegaulle1204 How big is the difference ? I also have a 9900K and thought about upgrading my CPU before buying the upcoming RTX5090 ( upgrading from 2080Ti )
Isn´t it the graphics card that does all the main work in 4K Resolution ( or 2x4K Resolution when using a VR headset ) ?
@@Lightning---K. I never did a direct comparison, but fps seems about 30% higher.
This was quite nonsense to not test the same graphics settings on both. What does this compare now?
Pimax desperately using RUclipsrs to try to convince consumers all is well with their products. It's not though is it Pimax ? The games up for you, everyone knows your tactics now. Last chance, make drastic improvements or you're finished soon.
put V-SYNC ON ... and keep it at 72hz. Better to have a constant FPS than changing/stuttering FPS
Sorry but for flight simulator 72hz are looking to little, i kept my 120hz because with 90hz i don't see any difference
@@danielecarmona Totally subjective, I prefer not seeing trashy image quality pixelated/blurry/low detail, etc. with no jumping stutter fps Over high FPS, I do Sim Racing, a lot more speed of things happening than Flight Sim and I don't see too much difference between 72hz/fps and 90hz/fps, and 120hz/fps it's a total waste of resources, in 2D you notice a lot more the need of fps on some RPG games, and Sim than in VR. 72 or 80 it's more than enough for most of the time. And most of all it's not about how many FPS you get, it's the CONSTANT number of FPS, that create the good illusion of smooth movement, the brain detect changes/stutter a lot more than a fixed constant number of fps vs stutter changing number of fps, stuttering ruin the experience, constant lower fps don't, remember that Cinema it's 24fps and nobody cares too much.
@@SuperDigitalAI you're confusing FPS with Hz, those are different things, refresh rate is not related to FPS, "Frame rate determines how detailed an image might appear to one's eye, while refresh rate determines how smooth (the input lag) the images appear to the eye."
@@danielecarmona Sorry, I think that you are confused, FPS and HZ must be the same in SYNC to be effective and to have smooth motion. so, you have your headset at 72hz, the IDEAL number of frames per second to watch on that headset it is and it should be 72 fps fixed all the time, that's called Vertical Sync. If not, you will see stutter or deformed frames. That's why I told you all that before, because 90hz means that you NEED to be constant at 90FPS to watch a true real good smooth motion at 90hz. if not, you are seeing stutters, jumps, etc. VR Headsets are not Freesync, nor GSync capable.
@AEFox if what you say it would be true then if in that game you have only 30 fps you should have 30 Hz and that's not possible, fps and Hz again are two different things and you're confusing them.
This was an Nvidia explanation:
FPS and Hz are often interchanged and misused in the gaming world. Hz is defined as cycles per second, and is most commonly associated with your display. They both describe a completion rate, but by different components in your PC’s rendering system. Simply put, FPS is the rate at which your system, and in particular, your GPU completes frames and Hz is the rate at which your display shows those completed frames.
These rates are not the same. The GPU can complete frames faster or slower than the display can show them. This variation in frame time is caused by differences in the complexity of the 3D scene being rendered - for example, an explosion in one scene may take more time to render than the prior scene. Hz on the other hand generally a constant rate and does not vary based on scene complexity. 60Hz is 60 times per second, 144Hz is 144 times per second, and so on. There are displays that can vary their refresh rate, but as a simplification here, we'll assume a constant refresh rate display.
FPS is typically a rolling average over many seconds since frame times are not consistent from frame to frame. A good way to think about FPS is: ‘how many frames, on average, does the GPU complete per second.’
When the FPS and the Hz differ, you can experience effects like tearing, but we will get into that later. At the end of the day; GPU -> FPS, Display -> Hz. For the best performance, you want both to be high.
thanks for this, gonna save up for this and a 4070ti super!
don't get a 4070(ti) got slow memory bus, 3080 is just as fast because it's got a much better memory bus. So for VR get a second hand 3090 or at least a 4080/90. But better wait for the new generation.
@@slecht The 4090 being 2k is ridiculous with the 50 series about to drop. Makes me wonder what that cost will be.
@@ryox82 Yea true, mb look for a second hand 3090, fair bit faster then a 4070Ti for VR!
@@slecht okay ill hold out then ty
Is it only for the light what is with the normal crystal...
I upgraded my PC 2 years ago from i9 9900k/rtx3090/z390mb/32Gb 3000 ram to a i9 13900k/rtx4090/z790mb/32Gb 6400 ram and got at least a 50% fps improvement with msfs2020 in VR. Hopefully this will do me for another 2-3 years. I normally like to skip nvidia series updates, so maybe the rtx6090 with the then latest mb and CPU.
Thinking in doing a AMD performance test?
in vr what counts more is stutters/microstutters not how high fps goes. Any small change in fps (even 1fps) will cause a stutter. If you were at a very low but rock solid fps there would be no stutter. Your fps is all over the place so you must have stutters everywhere.. You made no mention of smoothness.
This is exactly what I was thinking while watching the video. My experience with the Crystal light is I can't stand the stuttering and microstutters. Sure I could play it as it, but it drives me crazy when considering I'm running a Ryzen 7 9800X3D with a 4090 and it stutters like hell. I've gone back to my G2 which just plain works period.
@@David-c5l I simply cannot play in VR with stutters. so unfortunatley I go down on resolution and other tweaks so I get stable non-stuttering fps. It sucks but I aint going back to 2D no way
@David-c5l hey, I found the same issue on Pimax CL in DCS. Try the 'Lock to half frame rate' setting and '90hz upscaled' setting.
You're locked to 45 frames, but it stays there. Counterintuitively it runs smooth as glass. I'm a photographer - I pixel peep and I'm a frame wh*re, but it feels like 90fps and you can really push the quality settings.
I'm running an i7-13700k and 4080 super, 32gb RAM, so you'll be able to push the quality settings even more than me. The game looks beautifully sharp and smooth, even on multiplayer.
Let me know how you get on 🤙🏼.
@@michaelwilkinson1985 appreciate the tips! I’ve not had a chance to try those settings yet, but hope to today. I’ll let you know!
@@michaelwilkinson1985 Michael, you fixed the problem! Those two things solved the stuttering issue--incredible. Been struggling with this since October--can't thank you enough!
What the hell is the point of a performance comparison if you're doing it with different settings 🤦♂️
We need a 6090 ti video card
What software are you using to show the FPS in the upper lefthand corner?
Imam i7 14700,4060 i 32 GB rama.DCS na Meta Quest 3 nemoze ni na medium.Jel su problem podesavanja.
I'ved changed gpus for years trying to get my 8kx to play nice at native resolution, always end up having to lowering it. The native resolution is super nice, however, I get motion sickness from anything below 90fps, so that's that. I'm glad I skipped the rtx 4090, was not worth the price at all.
I think you're confusing fixed foveated rendering with dynamic foveated rendering 🤦♂️
Beware of anyone who says that they are happy with any fps lower than the refresh rate of the headset. It will always cause stutter which will ruin your vr experience. 60fps is incredible and fantastic?? ok...Definitely a stutterfest..Very misleading overview
I dont believe any of this. My Crystal Light doesnt even detect the display port on my 4090. Its F**king rubbish.
What´s that obsession with 90Hz? Why not simply use 72Hz? It´s so much easier to meet that with 72FPS...
80 fps on the most powerful gfx card this is not good
So just buy a RX8800Xt a way cheaper than an 4080ti or an 4090...
50fps 🤦♂️and for vr you need 120 0.1% low fps and it’s not even pimax 12k
What a shame msfs, really
Garbage cheap Chinese headset with TERRIBLE support from the company. Criminal even.