How Hot Does a Rocket Get?
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- Опубликовано: 20 сен 2024
- Thanks to Protolabs for sponsoring today's video! Learn more about them here: www.protolabs....
Milling and Turning the Nosecone: • Making a Rocket Part F...
Raw Footage and Data: • SEND IT - Dec 2022 Syn...
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I’d suggest perhaps putting a microwave in the nose cone
Most practical suggestion so far.
use a AA battery to power it
Ah, well...just got home from work and I see that I've been pinned. I'd like to add that I am in fact an engineer. I got my degree in robotic systems engineering last May and I work for an aerospace company in Arizona. I'm happy my solution is clearly the favored one :P
@@ImAnarchy microwaves > stoves
@@ImAnarchy Trust me, I'm an engineer.
Answer to the title: it gets hot
Which, from my european point of view, is the same as knowing the temperature in Fahrenheit degrees XD
We still love you Joe! :D
title asks how hot, not what happens
@@steair I watched whole clip and still don´t know how hot it gets... I´m behind an invasion of the USA and once and for all force them to use metric instead of imperial which is an inferior way which is a fact, same with celsius vs fahrenheit! Just read what the difference is and everyone will agree that celsius is a more logical way to measure!
I think we all agree that the worst thing in US history was to continue this terrible and horrible way of measuring things!
@@madafrackers8756 Kelvins just crying in the corner
Thank you 🙏
Wow. Your rotating camera shots are magnificent. I have never seen such clear, smooth, like dreamie, moving pictures of the parachute phase ever. I'm not able to describe what I've seen just minutes ago.
Place an appropriate boundary layer trip near the tip of the nose to ensure turbulent boundary layer heating. Can confirm that boundary layer trips can lead to several times (3x to 5x) higher heat transfer rates especially on nose cones. You could even make the whole surface rough by covering it with particles of suitable grit using some thin conductive glue.
What if there were small scoops that would redirect the boundary layer (and some of the air just above it) inside the nosecone but outside of a vessel containing the meat? Kind of like the mig-21. Feel like there would be more mass flow and thus more heat transfer
Since it's already made on a lathe, could he just make the surface... Really bad? Or would a stepped or grooved surface work better, do you think?
@bjrn-oskarrnning2740 that's a good idea. Along with making the cone walls paper thin.
@Daniel Cook Knurling on super thin walls (iirc he mentioned 1mm in the video) would end badly, but you could do it before removing the material. This does leave it susceptible to cracking since you're compressing the material to get that pattern (thinner than min machines wall thickness now) and speeds of mach 3 can cause some fun issues.
Oh additionally, it doesn't look like a CNC lathe so he'd be feeling the knurling out by hand which can lead to inconsistencies in the material stress/knurl depth.
absolutely stoked that you’ve gotten this down to a science. your systems are so stable that you can test this random whim of an idea and not even think about the rest of your systems (flight computer, software, hardware)
The single greatest aerospace / rocketry channel on RUclips
I have a little suggestion, I think for all (or at least for me) who isn't used to Fahrenheit would it be helpful if you could show the temperature in Celsius as well.
Or you could just… do a few min of research. Born and raised with Fahrenheit in USA. One day as a kid, my cousins from Australia were visiting and they kept using centigrade and I was very confused. So I looked it up. I was no longer confused
Also the graphs are in Celsius anyway what are you complaining about? You want him to switch his recursive vernacular?
Someone on youtube: cooks meat by slapping it
Someone else on RUclips: Tries to cook it by sending it on a rocket
You can't get your pudding if you don't beat your meat.
At my work we make medical devices, and rapid heating/cooling is a common topic. At one time we thought "why bother with computer models when we always have to validate them with real-world prototypes, and protos are so easy to make?" Long story short, we quickly learned that it's better to get really good at computer modelling, using protos to improve our modelling capabilities. That being said, if it's cheap to just put a steak on top of the nose and launch, it might be instructive.
Based on your initial results, I expect that your problem will be too little heat, not too much. Expect to see a high premium on getting thin, to reduce thermal mass. Even at Mach 1, you might need to deliberately collect heat by changing the aerodynamic surfaces.
tbh, I would really love to hear that long story... been contemplating for the same thing recently!
Loved the initial launch videos and the stabilized video during flight!
Man, I love how you're simultaneously working on putting a rocket into space and cooking a piece of meat using a rocket, honestly hilarious
The standard advice to reduce nose cone heating is to add a radius to the tip. So if the objective is to catch as much heat as possible, then make it pointy and conductive. On this flight you lost a lot of the heat that would have gone into the thin wall because you had a long insulator tip. If you want to minimize the wall thickness to maximize how much of the heat meets the meat, then fabricate it from sheet metal or machine it very carefully, and look at pressurizing it for structural stability or putting a small hole in the tip so that it self-pressurizes to balance the current Q.
Like the dictator (and elon musk) said: "you gotta make it more pointy"
Adding radius will significantly reduce rocket speed, and finding most effective point of heating (about mach 1 speed) would be quite a challenge. Totally agree with pin/needle radiator - short needles piercing meat will heat it from inside.
Man why don't you upload anymore videos on your channel. I just like those rocket engine test videos
Data, beautiful data. I got chills from the overlaid graphs. That made everything wort it.
This new camera spinner is getting you awesome footage!
Couldn't help smiling like an idiot at my phone when I saw how well the camera stabilizer worked, well done
This is one of those channels I just drop everything and watch when I see a new upload.
The deadpan and seriousness you treat this absurd topic kept me laughing. Thanks!
Hey, that's such good footage. I'm glad your focus on de-spinning the camera is paying off! I love how SendIt has become a plaform for futher experimentation.
Always enjoy seeing what you are doing. Bonus points for “High Steaks”
Wow, mach 3? That would be a milestone! Can't wait to watch that onboard video of the darkened skies. Keep up the good work !
Man, the shots of the staging was just marvelous
Joe is an inspiration. He has so much fun doing this stuff, makes this old man smile.
the spinner footage looks AMAZING
You should definitely consider using bldc motor with foc driver instead of this giant stepper motor. Please, like for him to notice, this would be a massive weight save❤
I don't think a BLDC is going to work, he choose a stepper motor for its ability of making small corrections, with also enough torque to keep it in place once in the dedisered position. plus you can also have a reference on where you are without having an encoder to check its position (as long as you don't skip steps). with a blcd you don't have control over the position and also at that small speed you also have very poor torque, but the worst think is that you cannot keep it steady once in the correct position. my2cent
@@AmedeoZittibldc can be used in servo position mode. The elctronics and the sensing are a bit tricky but absolutely doable
@@AmedeoZitti You can definitely use hall sensor encoder in such system. I didn't think about the torque required to spin the batteries, but a larger motor will still provide the torque required for the system and will still be half as light as a stepper motor. You can also get rid of these magnets.
Fantastic work! That spinning camera is genius! NASA should pay attention!!
This guy is doing the work of a PhD project like every 6 months. Inspirational!
the work, but not the theory.
But he does not write a 300 document and publish every chapter to a good conference separately.
Most of the time doing a PhD is reading and writing.
You never stop asking questions about rockets and rocketry. Keep it up - really keeps your community going!
How small is small for the 'slab' of meat? The walls of the aluminum nose cone do not have to have the same consistent thickness throughout - make a small portion very thin so that the heat transfers much more quickly. I don't know the machining capability that you (or ProtoLabs?) have but possibly use some sort of internal honeycomb structure. Not easy. Machine it from flat stock and then bend into a cone shape or make the cone in vertical sections? Piece it together and then do the final outer surface machining to finalize the cone shape.
Surface area dissipates heat (thin fins on radiators) and can also absorb and direct heat. A very few fins (canards?) on the nose cone might capture a little more heat - due to the increased drag / friction. There may be other ways to increase friction on the outer surface . A balancing act because more drag reduces the speed of the rocket.
The spinning camera mechanism looks quite heavy - you probably have opportunity to reduce weight which could allow rocket speed to increase (marginally?) and therefore increase heat generation on the nose cone.
Or just place the meat on the engine nozzle - cooked for sure.
Make the nosecone as two nested cones. Fill the space between them with meat. Or in other words, use the smaller inner cone to press the meat against the outer cone. Add some kind of bottom seal ring to prevent the meat from sloshing downward under G-loading. That should get you both good heat transfer (which in cooking a steak is largely a function of physical contact between the meat and the pan) and payload stability.
That worked real good, impressive.
I envision a smaller secondary inner nose cone (maybe ceramic?) whose base would be threaded into the primary aluminum nose cone. It would be sized such that there's 1-2mm gap between the body of primary and secondary cones. Then you could cut your slice of meat into an unfurled cone shape and load it between the two cones. This would keep the meat contained while allowing for maximum thermal transfer.
Just like the intake on a mig-21 lol
My favorite shot from this video is the slowmo when it takes off
You could make a double thin nose cone and jam the thin slice of meat between those. Kinda like, wrap it around the inner cone which then (together with the meat) snugly fits into the thin outer cone to make the heat transfer as direct as possible.
Bacon in fact. Make a bacon blaster rocket.
My idea for cooking the meat would be:
* (Ultra) Thin Slices (on a scale of Delin Slicer to Cryostat Microtome
* High Conductivity (and maybe High Thermal Storage Materials for more “Cooking Time”) Materials for Better Heat Transfer
* Make the Cooking Chamber Conform to the Chosen Meat’s Shape (at least mostly) (An analogy would be a Panini Press, not an Oven)
Granted easier said than done, so good luck, and i look forward to your work!
Love your projects so very much!
That purple flame is so beautiful
Love your videos!
Could you implement the metric system in your videos?
Could you implement simple math into your thinking process?
Wow 530k! I've been with you since like 8k... amazing to see you grow.
Maybe you can use aerogel to insulate the meat and heatpipes to move the heat from the surface into the cooking chamber. A big like the slapping turkey cooker.
maybe switch out the aluminum for copper for better transfer. Back the nose cone with insulation & make sure to take as much heat from near the union between nosecone & rocket. Idk if it would be possible to find some kind of tough insulating ceramic ring to put between the nose cone & body. Maybe some kind of wide ceramic bearings🤷
Isnt aerogel really expensive?
@@Cresign 2 seconds of googling shows like $15 for 100cc of granular aerogel. It USED to be expensive. For small applications like this the cost is trivial
@@Cresign Very
When you use imperial units, would you please also provide the metric equivalent ? For us in most of the world, those numbers are meaningless.
Was about to say the sape thing but if you look closely, the raw plot he show are in fact in celsius
Humans are 98.6F (37C)
Boiling water is 212.5F (100C)
Melt water is 32F (0C)
Temperature of the earth is 50-60F (10-15C)
-40F=-40C.
Those are most of the references that let me function in both.
There countries that have landed on the moon, and there are countries who use the metric system. that being said, it’s not that hard to know the conversions
Space bacon!
That’s actually something my friends and I were thinking about as a project
Don't know if this is a good idea but one way to improve heat transfer is to use very thin aluminium. For one crazy RC project that I was experimenting with I was working on using Coke can aluminium as the outer skin...
Simply the best content on RUclips!
What is Fahrenheit!?
I am watching you since last year love from India 🇮🇳
Sorry Joe stop using Fahrenheit
No he’s using American
No he’s using freedom
You can solder thermocouple wires if you need to, the rub is just that where your cold junction is (where the thermocouple wires join to the same metal, e.g. copper) is what needs to be measured. TC amps usually have cold junction compensation that assumes the temperature is whatever it measures at the chip itself.
You can also directly measure the temp of any metal with a thermocouple by welding/brazing/soldering/peening the thermocouple wires directly to whatever metal part. They don't even need to touch, as the thermocouple effect between the wires and any other intervening metals gets cancelled out (law of intermediate metals)
the magnetic coupling is a blessing. If something is jamming the camera module, it doesn't harm the motor on the inside. You could use a heatpipe to lead the energy to the inside of the cone and to the steak
My idea is to transfer the thermal energy from the rocket cone to the meat via conduction.
- Weld a metal rod to the inside of the metal nose cone
- Wrap a thin layer of meat around the metal rod inside of the rocket
- Send it!
If the meat is thin enough it'll cook all the way through, and rod-based conduction heating will give you the opportunity to shield the meat from airflow since you'll be able to keep the meat-heating-element inside the rocket frame.
The camera unspinner is working amazingly!
Hey man, I respect your efforts and works on your channel
That footage is simply amazing.
this is soo cool cant wait for you to fix the issue with the cam and go higher amazing work you got a new sub
I think not just maximum temperature but sustained temperature is going to be important for cooking but I'm no rocket scientist. GL Joe!
that was ... Outstanding. A true accomplishment :)
Love to see a new video upload.
Amazing videos to watch as always!
Hi there! as a weird crossover between a ballistics dork and a cooking nerd, I suggest 1) a copper nose cone rather than aluminum to maximize your heat transfer, especially in light of the fast cool down after, 2) that it be thermally insulated from the rocket body and free to heat up and cool down as one unit. the large size of your total nose cone body is acting like a giant heat sync to allow the heat energy to leave the tip, which you want it to stay concentrated in. maybe if you had a shorter flatter stepped nose cone design, you could actually optimize for the heating of the whole surface of that, or for the heat to contentrate around the circumference of the step rather than the center point tip of the nose.
So many of the things fail not through any fault of your own, it makes me appreciate how there are so many delays on launches.
Let’s go another upload!
In case you over looked it, this from wikipedia re. thermo couple circuits:
Reference junction
Reference junction block inside a Fluke CNX t3000 temperature meter. Two white wires connect to a thermistor (embedded in white thermal compound) to measure the reference junctions' temperature.
To obtain the desired measurement of T s e n s e \scriptstyle T_\mathrm{sense}, it is not sufficient to just measure V \scriptstyle V. The temperature at the reference junctions T r e f \scriptstyle T_\mathrm{ref} must be already known. Two strategies are often used here:
"Ice bath" method: The reference junction block is immersed in a semi-frozen bath of distilled water at atmospheric pressure. The precise temperature of the melting point phase transition acts as a natural thermostat, fixing T r e f \scriptstyle T_\mathrm{ref} to 0 °C.
Reference junction sensor (known as "cold junction compensation"): The reference junction block is allowed to vary in temperature, but the temperature is measured at this block using a separate temperature sensor. This secondary measurement is used to compensate for temperature variation at the junction block. The thermocouple junction is often exposed to extreme environments, while the reference junction is often mounted near the instrument's location. Semiconductor thermometer devices are often used in modern thermocouple instruments.
The camera views on the rocket really made the video. great job on the work, cant wait for version 3.
This is way we love him ❤️
I just wanted to say I am 13 and you have inspired me so mutch that I have built a rocket of my own with my 3d printer and you have left a lasting impact on my life!
Interestig, at M=1.05 the temperature downstream of a normal shockwave is just 1.032*T1, so friction has a much larger impact than the supersonic flow. At M=3 the temperature would be 2.67*T1, so the tip should heat up to 480ºC! (without even taking into account friction)
That is so freaking cool. I am not an engineer but amazed at what you have built. Absolutely amazing!!!
Hey mate, good on ya for filming your adventure and posting it for us to live vicariously through them !
As somebody who flies a paramotor where I am sitting on a tiny seat and experiencing the environment in real time, I can tell you that if it's 50F on the ground it's far cooler as you go up. Around 0.5F per 100 feet. It gets darn cold up there. Even in the summer time when it's burning hot on the ground.
I love your ingenuity. I use an Insta360 One X inside a clear polycarbonate payload bay. It locks to the horizon and gives 360 degree video.
I would suggest concentric nose-cones. An outer one to contain the meat (with maybe a thermocouple for meat temp) with good heat transfer or heat absorbsion (for continued cooking after acceleration) , and another one with the normal electronics. The separation is to keep liquids away from electronics under G-forces and separation of areas that need heat from areas that don't
You could embed peltier elements on the outside of the nose cone to convert the heat (difference) into electricity, and then use that electricity to cook the meat with an efficient element. Plenty of loss to worry about this way, but it's kind of cool.
Great vid, and just in time to watch while playing KSP 2!
Interesting electronics + rockets + silly idea == instant upvote.
Man what great timing, I just spent the last 2 weeks characterizing the step response of 3 thermocouples. What a good time
KSP2 release and a new Bepis Space in one day? We're being spoiled!
When we launching for Mars 😄
Love this channel ❤
I haven't read all the comments, so my apology if someone already said this, but the I think the rubbing of the battery is caused by it being distorted during acceleration. The LiPo battery packs are jell type internals, so as it accelerates it will swell at the lower portion of the cell. As the speed slows or normalizes the battery goes to its proper shape. A lite hard case might help protect the LiPo.
Very nice Joe.
Yes, those Wago connectors are huge. You could use crimp connectors on thermocouple leads, with housings down to 1.25mm or 1.00mm pitch. Or better still, with that temperature range, you could get much better accuracy and reliability, with simpler interface electronics, with precision thermistors or PRTs. I have extensive experience with using thermistors so reach out if you would like further input.
I also have extensive experience with stepper drives and a stepper is definitely the way to go for the simplest precision control. It is certainly possible to maintain tight position control up to the rates you’re dealing with there and a microstepping drive. That was done with 1980s technology and we have _way_ higher control bandwidth available today. You just need to know how! Keep at it, when you crack it you will get rock steady footage.
this video will blow up
It was great launch and video was great. Congrads
Yeeeeessss a new bps video!!! Woop woop
Total temperature in kelvin = static temperature x (1+0.2M^2), where M = Mach number = True Airspeed / Local Speed of Sound.
Do the maths at sea level for Mach 1 and you get 288.15 x (1+0.2x1^2) = 345.78 K = 72.6 deg C, so not that hot.
Once you start getting higher Mach numbers the temperature really starts to increase, due to the M^2 term. It helps that the static air temperature reduces with altitude, reaching about -56 deg C at 11km and staying roughly constant until about 20km up, where it starts to get warmer again.
Son, I hope you take a minute to really marinate on how much you've accomplished. I work a dead end job, even though I have 2 bachelor's degrees. You're proof that going for it, and not playing it safe, is worth it. You are admirable.
The thinner the material the better the heat transfer to the meat. Keeping that in mind, have the outer most layer that the meat is touching be non-structural to make it as thin as possible. It would essentially be a very thin nose cone cap that attaches to/over the actual structural nose cone with the piece of meat wedged in between.
Realy nice video again!
Spinner worked great! Impressive
Love this! Can we get a Joe plays KSP2 stream?
Enjoyed, Thanks for sharing...🚀
Extend the nose cone material to make up some additional fuselage room. Neck down the material according to some heat transfer calcs. Wrap the steak on the inner lining of the extended cone section. You'll have a thin layer of metal directly contacting the steak with minimal thermal mass receiving aerodynamic heating. You could even make an inside portion (on the inside of the steak wrap) that extends from the tip of the cone so the meat is heated from both sides to get some better efficiency, but you gotta worry that adding too much thermal mass will reduce overall cooking so there's another trade there
Just found your channel and wow! Amazing! The camera is such an innovative idea. Patent that good sir you have a bread making idea with that. Gained a sub from me
Make the nose cone of high temperature resistant material, low cooling effect. Place the meat slice outside of that and keep it in place by a metal mesh. The Mesh will prevent the meat from peeling off and the backside will not drain heat from the meat.
i wish there were more videos because they're so interesting and i've already watched them many times.
Make a double-walled nose cone, put the meat between the nose cones, and pack it in there. Have a few vent holes and realize you're going to get some fat and water spatter which may get on your camera.
I love your spincam!
Gorgeous footage! For the cooking aspect, I think stagnation temperature may be a useful quantity. If you imagine air going 362 m/s in a wind tunnel, it has a certain amount of kinetic energy. Ideally, to create heat, you should convert all this kinetic energy into thermal energy. Simulating your launch, 1 kg of air will have 1/2 (1kg) (362m/s)^2 = 65.5kJ of kinetic energy. Air has a specific heat of about 1007 J/(K kg). Dividing the kinetic energy in one kilogram of air by the specific heat yields about 65K, or 117 degrees Fahrenheit of temperature change. So, I believe that the highest temperature you could hope for, given an ambient temperature of 50F, was 167F. This is only slightly above the food-safe 165F for meat. If you push the rocket faster, this will obviously get much easier. Going 426m/s, for example, with an ambient temperature of 50F would put the upper bound on 212F. Your heat pulse is going to be very short, requiring a small food sample and many extra degrees Fahrenheit... imagine trying to cook *anything* in five seconds! Keep it up!!
This is an excellent engineering response. He would also be able to capture that heat better using a thin sheet of either copper, or preferably silver. If he were to effectively insulate that sheet from the surounding structure, he could also avoid a lot of parasitic heat loss. it would be way better to have everything made of epoxy/fiberglass except for that thin sheet and the meat.
I feel like the best way to do it would be a thin shell of material on the outside, like if you peeled off the outer layer of an onion, and sandwich the meat between that and the rest of the nosecone (then attach the shell good and tight). That would get it as close to the heating as possible while still keeping it intact under the aerodynamic forces.
Copper top. Cooking means proteins denature, so choose meat with the most delicate protein, maybe fish? Add a little (!) oil for heat transfer and to get the meat out later on. Squeeze the oiled meat into a chamber for full metal contact. Keep the copper tip small and isolated; no heat sinks. Could you roughen up the copper tip to drag a bit more?
This is so impressive. Well done!
If you replace the tip of the nose cone with a nonconductive and contextually appropriate metal, but maintain an aluminum strip, you could apply a charge across that aluminum strip and gather data on the resistance on the metal strip. I'm not well taught in basic circuits, but with some testing you might be able to correlate electrical resistance on the strip with the temperature. The main problem is that this might cost more electrical resources.
The rotating shots are great. For the meat, I believe that the main source of heating may be infrared radiation from the shock at the front. As a result, if the meat was behind a layer of glass then it would be exposed directly to that heat while being protected from direct contact with the air.
Thanks