Nowadays it feels like if you have gear that has paid itself off, that’s the golden ticket to profitability. Not to update gear as often while keeping your rates the same. It’s important to demand an assistant for every smaller job so that what’s key (as I turn 50 this year) is to have an assistant because it eases the pressure, workload and mental tiredness from a shoot.
And revenue streams are important as well. An an OC-based videographer for corporate and commercial shoots, I also supplement by being a union video assist, DIT for docs and commercials, teleprompter operator and directed for many years as well. It’s all in the same family and being on set is still a great feeling every time I shoot. I’ve been able to have my wife be a mom and stay at home. It’s a hustle but with a positive attitude and doing simple things like being nice and on time and continuing to learn new, I see myself on set for years to come!
This is a great topic/conversation. I can offer a little perspective that may be unique. I come from the agency side originally, spent about 15 years working at ad agency creative departments before going full time independent in photography/video. As little as two years ago we were regularly contracting out $90k-$120k production budgets for a single :30 sec scripted spot and a :15 sec cutdown. That would be an end to end budget, so including agency time (20-25% of overall total) and the production company who would usually also handle post production. Paid media spend would be separate on top of that. Deliverables would typically be 16x9 for use on broadcast and some digital, and 1x1 and 9x16 for use on digital. Typically including outputs with open captions and also those without. Overall looking at about 12-16 final deliverables or so. (Some outputs were the same but just different format/compression for different vendors). Now, this would definitely be for larger clients. So there's certainly those types of productions still happening regularly. I know for a fact this continues on at previous agencies I was at. Also plenty of smaller productions going on of course. Budgets are every which way, depending on what's needed. The big thing that I've seen coming over to this side is I don't think you can be just a camera person nowadays. If you have additional skills (can shoot stills and video, or can edit and do post-production, can serve as your own production company and do pre-pro, casting, etc.) then you can make more money and still do very well. I think if all you want to do is shoot and walk away nowadays then it's getting harder to make the same kind of living that maybe was possible before. Then again, not everyone wants to be a production company. But there's money at every step of the process, so the more you can do along the way, it may allow you to lose some money in one area but make it up in another.
Great topic to share, thank you for making this. For the youth or folks new to the industry watching this wondering what their rates should be, know that this all varies so much, regionally and in what type of work you're doing. $2000 doesn't go very far in New England for a corporate shoot (and of course that depends on production value), but could in the indie film world (I wouldn't know it's been a decade since I was there ;) ). As someone else mentioned, if you can rent out your equipment to a production/client, that can really help with growth. When the OG Ronin came out, I was renting it every week for a long term production...I eventually just bought it and actually turned a profit renting it from myself. I haven't seen my rate be able to go too far, but owning and renting equipment, and making sure I'm compensated for travel and any pre-production has helped keep things fair and the business viable.
Thank you for sharing your numbers! The commentary on mentors is very interesting. It's a weird reality. I haven't seen a decline in my spending power, but that's because I've abandoned narrative and music videos and anything "artsy." I don't even do it for free anymore. Also, I haven't been in business as long as you have. I just stick to corporate/commercial work only. I never tried weddings... I wonder what someone who's been in the wedding industry would say about all this? I don't know. It is kinda depressing thinking about the future and the low barrier to entry. Ughhhh... I want a plane... I'm not even asking for a jet. A single propeller would do just fine. I try not to overthink a few facts like... 11 years ago I could ask any business 60k for a 30-second commercial. It didn't feel weird to ask for that amount here in NYC (obviously, it didn't mean I would close all those proposals). Today, it would have to be a very large and well known client willing to spend that kinda of money. If someone reaches out to me for a 30-second commercial, there's no way I'd start the convo at 60k=(. Today, 60k better include an entire campaign with multiple deliverables and an ad agency attached to it. I've been writing this comment for about 30 minutes now. This has my thinking too much. Whether buying all sorts of Creamsource lights and growing my kit is even worth it? Or whether my Reds were really worth their asking price. My Raptor-X just sits there... My Komodo-X just rapidly depreciated this week. All while my FX6/FX3 combo get most of the action. I keep flip-flopping on the Burano, but I have to ask myself if it is even worth it. It's not just $25k plus accessories; It's the time it takes to learn a new camera and get used to its intricacies. I'm going to cry for a few minutes... just a few. Maybe 3-5 minutes worth.
My airplane ref was for sure small piston aircraft, one DP had a piston helicopter, no jets. Budgets, it was the same for me, several per year, corporate videos 30-60k budgets, commercials from 50-150k. I produced some of them and still have all the excel docs. Not every job and it was a challenge to close, but that was the zone. Appears the same trend as the music album production, print press production. Evolve and adapt, I just need to find the next thing. I've worked with directors that use to collect 15k day rates, today still working but at 1,500 / day.
I'm not a commercial shooter by any means, but I sold all my gear that has been collecting dust in my cabinets. Mostly cameras and lenses. Put the money into lights and accessories like matte box, ND filters and stuff like that. Komodo-X discount has been brutal for the owners :D. But it's a good news for anyone who wants to buy it. For me FX6 is the dream camera. I cannot imagine I need anything better :D. And I'm still considering buying it for last 18 or more months. For me problem is that I live in a 2nd world country so we have the same rates but in the local currency which is 4 times less valuable then USD :D. So FX6 is like 4 times more expensive for me than for US folks.
I have the same slider. I got the one that uses the remote vs the app. It's a little cheaper and little bit more cumbersome to set up but I prefer not having my phone designated for apps for shooting. I use the Neewer aluminum supports for the sagging they're worth the extra investment especially if you're using it a lot. I bet the gold mount battery helps keep that weight centered.
Appreciate the insight. I’m late twenties working in the European market, but I would say the same trends are applicable here too. Rates not catching up to inflation, mostly due to the amount of new people shooting for cheap and driving the prices down to get their foot in the door
Seeing same trends at my business. 2021 and 2022 were bonkers, but low barrier to entry for commercial video production had us get into producing live events as a second vertical (regional sports and corporate mostly). It’s way harder to do well, so you have way less competition as a result. Still have the major AV players getting the really big jobs, but kids coming up with fx30s aren’t going to be able to undercut us in the same way. It’s really apparent when someone doesn’t know what they’re doing on the live stuff.
Thanks for sharing. I have the option to take on some conference producing work in the next few years, starting next year. Not my first passion but the budgets are quite a bit larger, with a team that works with big brands and we all get along.
Those 1990’s rates are very interesting as I’m someone who gained business traction in 2018. I had ridiculously small rates of $75/day and that was bc someone told me what the rate was, I had no clue what to charge. I also had no experience. But like you mentioned, barrier to entry is very gentle now. My rates have consistently grown every year to where I would currently take a $2k - two person interview without much push back. $1200-$1500 for myself and gear, $300 for PA, mileage, etc…. However, no $125k debt to pay off! That pressure would be immense. Right now, I could shoot two fx30’s, use cheaper lighting/audio gear and still charge the same rates but really increase my profit margins. It’s really cool to compare when people enter the industry. Thanks for sharing.
Good point on cost of entry debt then vs now. I think my first paid work was about 45 / day as a utility. And some shoot and edit event type work at about $300 package rate. $2000 in 1998 is about 3,600 today.
IDK man... for $2K I'd have problem showing up with 2X FX30 and budget lighting. At least an FX9/FX6 for A cam, FX3 for B. No way an I using mirrorless for live/broadcast work. Maybe for b-roll or as a back-up, but definitely not the only cam I'm bringing.
*High Mr. Cranky 😃 Thanks for doing this video. I have a couple of questions for you; 1. What is your day rate for a two camera shoot for corporate clients ? 2. How many requests do you get for 8K resolution ?*
8k never once to date. Shot a few 6k Red commercials for VFX. I do have one client that will for sure shoot 8k when they call, as they are in the VFX space and own a 12K blackmagic camera for a specific video wall client. Rates today, broadcast level DP owner op is about 2,000 with an over under range of about 800. Not too different from my first years in the late ‘90s. Additional camera packages 450-1600 day based on lenses and builds.
@@CrankyCameraman Sorry I meant the cable holder , and I found its small rig by the look of it , but I did buy those ear buds ,based on an earlier video of yours .
Please keep doing these videos. Old farts like me love them (turned 50 this year). I too started in the beta days. The production company I worked for had a couple of Ikegami HL-59s, Fujinon glass, Anton bricks. We most likely had the same 3 channel Shure field mixer you were talking about too. Once affordable HD digital video cameras were available to the public, production prices plummeted. Supply and demand. In the beta days, clients didn't have much choice for quality broadcast equipment. Either you went to your local broadcast affiliate or there was a production company near by. No one else could afford the prices of broadcast cameras and glass. Let alone post production. We had two editing suites. One linear and one non-linear which was Avid. That equipment in the early 2000s was SO expensive. Now days? Geez, anyone can afford it. The golden days are over and we have to adapt. I for one do not miss lugging an ENG cam, O'connor sticks and a backpack full of Anton bricks around all day :)
Nowadays it feels like if you have gear that has paid itself off, that’s the golden ticket to profitability. Not to update gear as often while keeping your rates the same. It’s important to demand an assistant for every smaller job so that what’s key (as I turn 50 this year) is to have an assistant because it eases the pressure, workload and mental tiredness from a shoot.
And revenue streams are important as well. An an OC-based videographer for corporate and commercial shoots, I also supplement by being a union video assist, DIT for docs and commercials, teleprompter operator and directed for many years as well. It’s all in the same family and being on set is still a great feeling every time I shoot. I’ve been able to have my wife be a mom and stay at home. It’s a hustle but with a positive attitude and doing simple things like being nice and on time and continuing to learn new, I see myself on set for years to come!
This is a great topic/conversation. I can offer a little perspective that may be unique. I come from the agency side originally, spent about 15 years working at ad agency creative departments before going full time independent in photography/video.
As little as two years ago we were regularly contracting out $90k-$120k production budgets for a single :30 sec scripted spot and a :15 sec cutdown. That would be an end to end budget, so including agency time (20-25% of overall total) and the production company who would usually also handle post production. Paid media spend would be separate on top of that.
Deliverables would typically be 16x9 for use on broadcast and some digital, and 1x1 and 9x16 for use on digital. Typically including outputs with open captions and also those without. Overall looking at about 12-16 final deliverables or so. (Some outputs were the same but just different format/compression for different vendors).
Now, this would definitely be for larger clients. So there's certainly those types of productions still happening regularly. I know for a fact this continues on at previous agencies I was at. Also plenty of smaller productions going on of course. Budgets are every which way, depending on what's needed.
The big thing that I've seen coming over to this side is I don't think you can be just a camera person nowadays. If you have additional skills (can shoot stills and video, or can edit and do post-production, can serve as your own production company and do pre-pro, casting, etc.) then you can make more money and still do very well.
I think if all you want to do is shoot and walk away nowadays then it's getting harder to make the same kind of living that maybe was possible before. Then again, not everyone wants to be a production company. But there's money at every step of the process, so the more you can do along the way, it may allow you to lose some money in one area but make it up in another.
Great topic to share, thank you for making this. For the youth or folks new to the industry watching this wondering what their rates should be, know that this all varies so much, regionally and in what type of work you're doing. $2000 doesn't go very far in New England for a corporate shoot (and of course that depends on production value), but could in the indie film world (I wouldn't know it's been a decade since I was there ;) ). As someone else mentioned, if you can rent out your equipment to a production/client, that can really help with growth. When the OG Ronin came out, I was renting it every week for a long term production...I eventually just bought it and actually turned a profit renting it from myself. I haven't seen my rate be able to go too far, but owning and renting equipment, and making sure I'm compensated for travel and any pre-production has helped keep things fair and the business viable.
Thank you for sharing your numbers! The commentary on mentors is very interesting. It's a weird reality. I haven't seen a decline in my spending power, but that's because I've abandoned narrative and music videos and anything "artsy." I don't even do it for free anymore. Also, I haven't been in business as long as you have. I just stick to corporate/commercial work only. I never tried weddings... I wonder what someone who's been in the wedding industry would say about all this? I don't know. It is kinda depressing thinking about the future and the low barrier to entry. Ughhhh... I want a plane... I'm not even asking for a jet. A single propeller would do just fine. I try not to overthink a few facts like... 11 years ago I could ask any business 60k for a 30-second commercial. It didn't feel weird to ask for that amount here in NYC (obviously, it didn't mean I would close all those proposals). Today, it would have to be a very large and well known client willing to spend that kinda of money. If someone reaches out to me for a 30-second commercial, there's no way I'd start the convo at 60k=(. Today, 60k better include an entire campaign with multiple deliverables and an ad agency attached to it. I've been writing this comment for about 30 minutes now. This has my thinking too much. Whether buying all sorts of Creamsource lights and growing my kit is even worth it? Or whether my Reds were really worth their asking price. My Raptor-X just sits there... My Komodo-X just rapidly depreciated this week. All while my FX6/FX3 combo get most of the action. I keep flip-flopping on the Burano, but I have to ask myself if it is even worth it. It's not just $25k plus accessories; It's the time it takes to learn a new camera and get used to its intricacies. I'm going to cry for a few minutes... just a few. Maybe 3-5 minutes worth.
My airplane ref was for sure small piston aircraft, one DP had a piston helicopter, no jets. Budgets, it was the same for me, several per year, corporate videos 30-60k budgets, commercials from 50-150k. I produced some of them and still have all the excel docs. Not every job and it was a challenge to close, but that was the zone. Appears the same trend as the music album production, print press production. Evolve and adapt, I just need to find the next thing. I've worked with directors that use to collect 15k day rates, today still working but at 1,500 / day.
I'm not a commercial shooter by any means, but I sold all my gear that has been collecting dust in my cabinets. Mostly cameras and lenses. Put the money into lights and accessories like matte box, ND filters and stuff like that. Komodo-X discount has been brutal for the owners :D. But it's a good news for anyone who wants to buy it.
For me FX6 is the dream camera. I cannot imagine I need anything better :D. And I'm still considering buying it for last 18 or more months.
For me problem is that I live in a 2nd world country so we have the same rates but in the local currency which is 4 times less valuable then USD :D. So FX6 is like 4 times more expensive for me than for US folks.
Thanks for sharing.
I have the same slider. I got the one that uses the remote vs the app. It's a little cheaper and little bit more cumbersome to set up but I prefer not having my phone designated for apps for shooting. I use the Neewer aluminum supports for the sagging they're worth the extra investment especially if you're using it a lot. I bet the gold mount battery helps keep that weight centered.
Appreciate the insight. I’m late twenties working in the European market, but I would say the same trends are applicable here too. Rates not catching up to inflation, mostly due to the amount of new people shooting for cheap and driving the prices down to get their foot in the door
Cranky👍🏻Thank You
Seeing same trends at my business. 2021 and 2022 were bonkers, but low barrier to entry for commercial video production had us get into producing live events as a second vertical (regional sports and corporate mostly). It’s way harder to do well, so you have way less competition as a result. Still have the major AV players getting the really big jobs, but kids coming up with fx30s aren’t going to be able to undercut us in the same way. It’s really apparent when someone doesn’t know what they’re doing on the live stuff.
Thanks for sharing. I have the option to take on some conference producing work in the next few years, starting next year. Not my first passion but the budgets are quite a bit larger, with a team that works with big brands and we all get along.
Those 1990’s rates are very interesting as I’m someone who gained business traction in 2018. I had ridiculously small rates of $75/day and that was bc someone told me what the rate was, I had no clue what to charge. I also had no experience. But like you mentioned, barrier to entry is very gentle now.
My rates have consistently grown every year to where I would currently take a $2k - two person interview without much push back. $1200-$1500 for myself and gear, $300 for PA, mileage, etc….
However, no $125k debt to pay off! That pressure would be immense. Right now, I could shoot two fx30’s, use cheaper lighting/audio gear and still charge the same rates but really increase my profit margins. It’s really cool to compare when people enter the industry. Thanks for sharing.
Good point on cost of entry debt then vs now. I think my first paid work was about 45 / day as a utility. And some shoot and edit event type work at about $300 package rate. $2000 in 1998 is about 3,600 today.
IDK man... for $2K I'd have problem showing up with 2X FX30 and budget lighting. At least an FX9/FX6 for A cam, FX3 for B. No way an I using mirrorless for live/broadcast work. Maybe for b-roll or as a back-up, but definitely not the only cam I'm bringing.
@@jasonmarotta9545 Meant to clarify, my example is for a corporate 2 cam interview. In that context, two fx30’s are more than enough.
*High Mr. Cranky 😃 Thanks for doing this video. I have a couple of questions for you; 1. What is your day rate for a two camera shoot for corporate clients ? 2. How many requests do you get for 8K resolution ?*
8k never once to date. Shot a few 6k Red commercials for VFX. I do have one client that will for sure shoot 8k when they call, as they are in the VFX space and own a 12K blackmagic camera for a specific video wall client. Rates today, broadcast level DP owner op is about 2,000 with an over under range of about 800. Not too different from my first years in the late ‘90s. Additional camera packages 450-1600 day based on lenses and builds.
I love your videos dude. Thank you
Thanks
hey curious your opinion on the Sony camcorders😊
So often it would be the better tool for the work I do, but the decision makers like FF and S35.
wots that clip you have there for the ear buds , looks very handy .. ? thanks
Recommended by another viewer. I have two sets one for Burano one for FX9. Excellent quality and isolation. amzn.to/3MF1Q76
@@CrankyCameraman Sorry I meant the cable holder , and I found its small rig by the look of it , but I did buy those ear buds ,based on an earlier video of yours .
@@robinprobyn1971ahh yes. Small Rig is correct.
@@CrankyCameraman Thanks
Please keep doing these videos. Old farts like me love them (turned 50 this year). I too started in the beta days. The production company I worked for had a couple of Ikegami HL-59s, Fujinon glass, Anton bricks. We most likely had the same 3 channel Shure field mixer you were talking about too. Once affordable HD digital video cameras were available to the public, production prices plummeted. Supply and demand. In the beta days, clients didn't have much choice for quality broadcast equipment. Either you went to your local broadcast affiliate or there was a production company near by. No one else could afford the prices of broadcast cameras and glass. Let alone post production. We had two editing suites. One linear and one non-linear which was Avid. That equipment in the early 2000s was SO expensive. Now days? Geez, anyone can afford it. The golden days are over and we have to adapt. I for one do not miss lugging an ENG cam, O'connor sticks and a backpack full of Anton bricks around all day :)
Thx for sharing.