Veteran Arms Musket Review: Original vs. Reproduction, Side-by-Side Comparison.
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- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2024
- Embark on a journey through history as we delve into the evolution of the flintlock musket in this captivating RUclips video. Join us as we compare and contrast an original French infantry musket, the Mle 1766/70, with a Veteran Arms model from 1768.
Explore the intricacies of these two remarkable firearms, examining what remains consistent and what changes have occurred over time. From the design elements to the functionality, we'll uncover the nuances that distinguish these weapons from each other and shed light on the advancements made in firearm technology during this period.
Whether you're a history enthusiast, a firearms aficionado, or simply curious about the evolution of weaponry, this video promises to be an engaging exploration into the world of flintlock muskets. Join us as we unlock the secrets of the past and uncover the fascinating story behind these iconic firearms.
00:00 Intro
03:10 Unboxing/First Impression
06:05 Not a 1768?
11:00 Original Vs Reproduction
21:17 Closing 
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I just went through the painstaking process of completely defarbing my 1766 from militaryheritage and getting it as close as possible to the original early pattern 1763-66 light And I've got to say good thing about these. Indian made muskets is that they leave too much wood instead of removing too much like the pedersoli land pattern musket so you can if you're very determined. Take rasps, sandpaper chisels and files and reshape the stock to make it more correct but here are some things that I noticed that were wrong on ol char that I fixed.
Butt stock on the Indian made guns is too thick and two squared at the comb and especially closer to the butt plate. This wood will have to be removed with a rasp and the butt plate reshaped with a file.
The comb itself is too high and the crease between the comb and the wrist is not deep nor long enough and needs to be reshaped. Also the drop from the come to the wrist was too angled and not steep enough.
Wrist is too thick needs to be shaved down
The step around the lock is too far away from the lock on the Indian made guns (and pedersolis too for that matter) and needs to be brought back closer to the lock itself
Rear barrel band retaining spring gets deleted and slot filled with homemade wood filler from wood shavings and tight bond 3 wood glue
Replace the hammer with one from the rifle shop as the Indian made. Hammers sit at a different angle versus the original
Shave down a ton of wood from the front of the rear barrel band. Clear to the end of the forearm and fit rifle shoppe middle barrel band and nose cap to the gun
I use a rifle shop nose cap that has a larger mouth for the rammer so that it funnels the rammer into the rammer channel better
Cut out the wood underneath the barrel to the rammer channel and deepen the rammer channel and place a rammer retaining spring under the barrel
Refinish the gun with aquafortis and bone black boiled linseed oil and Alfie shine wood wax.
The one thing I did not do that was very common on the very early 1763-66 is to remove the bayonet lug and braise it to the bottom of the barrel as I am not a fan of bayonet lugs on the bottom of the barrel when it comes to reloading
I've done all of these things to mine and I've got to say It looks almost identical to the one in bianchi's book
As always, excellent video
Thanks you for such a helpful response, this VA will be my first project gun so I am about to go through a learning process.
Looking forward to seeing your end result of the defarb soon!
Your recent video going over the history of the 1777 was a great watch, I learned lots of interesting information about my own piece.
Have you ever looked at the Pedersoli Charleville 66 kit? Has a walnut stock for a 66.
Kibler's tannic acid combined with aqua fortis will definitely make the end grains darker but I would say tending to black. Bone black I regard as strictly for local application to age and add character to the gun. I would never discourage tuning a lock but having a spare frizzen spring, maybe even a few is not a bad idea.
First and foremost, thank you for your service. When you do your strip and refinish of the stock, you shouldn't have to do much in the way of staining the teak if you use boiled linseed oil as the finish. As linseed oil ages, it oxidizes and darkens naturally. I'm currently working on the stock of an original English Snyder breechloader that some well-meaning but misguided individual brushed gloss polyurethane onto. I actually had to take it to a furniture refinisher and have it dipped to remove all the modern finish. I'm now re-oiling the stock, and even after two weeks, I can see the stock darkening as the oil oxidizes. If necessary, you can add a few drops of stain to the first coat of oil, to start the darkening process. The best procedure would be to test it inside the lock mortise or the trigger mortise before doing the outside of the stock.
I have a 1777 Charleville from Dixie Gun works that bought 30 years ago. Took it Belgium for the 1995 reanacment of Waterloo.
Hey! So I have a question, are the Dixie Gun Works Charlevilles their own in shop made guns? So at one of the re-enactments I saw a Dixie Gunworks stamped on the barrel of a 1766/68 Charleville, I was wondering if it was an imported Pedersoli that Dixie Gunworks stamped or if it was made at Dixie Gunworks.
A life goal of mine would be to reenact in Europe once. Looks awesome.
@@revere0311 I do believe it's a Pedersoli, but I have to check it. It also doesn't have all the springs holding the bands, someone told me not all 77 had all the springs. I will contact my friend in San Rafael and also compare it to his Waterloo Charleville. He doed have Grenadier Guards which beautiful with all the brass on it.
@@mikefisher2673 thanks! If you could check if some model 1777’s do not have middle band spring, that would be most helpful! I currently have ‘French Military Weapons’ by James Hicks, a reference book published in the early sixties. Their drawing of a 1777 has no middle band spring. Learning about the many variants of Charlevilles has been a continuous project.
I purchased my Brown Bess from Dixie Gun works in 2021, but it doesn’t have Dixie stamped on the barrel.
I do want a Pedersoli Charleville, if they’re ever in stock and I have an enough drinks in me to justify the $1900 buy…
@@revere0311 Yes, mine is missing the center spring and was purchased for $800.00 in 95. When I checked a few years back a used Pedersoli cost as much as new one in 95. I am talking to my friend tonight who has a number Napoleonic French muskets and I'll have him check for the Dixie gun work stamp.
@@mikefisher2673 thanks!
Thanks for posting this. I’ve heard good things about Veteran Arms, but there’s also a lot of hate out there for India made muskets. So any information is nice.
A really good side by side comparison of an original and a great new reproduction. Not that it matter a whole lot as you have an amazing orig and the repro is going to be an awesome shooter. Cant wait to see it fire. When I got into C&R collecting after retirement when things wee still very decently priced I was lucky to get many rly great conflict arms from around the world. My regret is I did not get any black powder. Back when i was young our parents got us 1851 Navy revolvers and the works to shoot on the farm. What a super time! Now I am looking at getting back into black powder with good repros and orig if I can find/afford them. It is amazing to carry historical arms that was used either for survival or for conflict that a person actually carried or at least a repro for the feel of it.
Again, great job. I learned a lot and it double my effort to add some of these firearms to our family collection.
For one thing the Charleville had 3 patterns in the American Revolutionary era: The '63 was what Colonials would have had access to or the '28 of French & Native War (aka Seven Years War) use; flaw with the '63 it had no spring on the third band and it was too long. The '66 became the favorite when given to the Americans when France showed sympathy and support and was shorter with springs on all 3 bands and looks like your original and the repro; also it became our model for the first US muskets made from our own armories.
Lastly the '77 which had a different rammer and the bayonet lug was under the barrel like the '63, and remodeled slightly as well as even shorter, also featuring a brass pan, the 1816 Springfield would copy that '77 and later version though they were not very different from what Napoleon used.
I just received a sea service pistol. Within a day, it was all tore apart. It's about 15-20% overbuilt. Mine will be restocked in walnut and all of the metal hand finished to get closer to an original pistol's specs. I only do this because I can be a bit anal sometimes. Like you, I am very grateful someone is producing these beauties. Thanks for the comparison!
Thanks for watching! It is a fantastic piece considering the price. Where did you acquire the walnut stock? My main complaint is the Teak stock. Ethan from 11bangbang did an outstanding job of adjusting the look and weight of his to be more ‘correct’.
@@revere0311 I live north of Seattle and I get my walnut from "Crosscut", an awesome wood supply store in the heart of Seattle. I have also picked up some really nice straight grained dark reddish brown walnut in Vancouver Canada. I have enough for a couple of full stock rifles and a few lever action rifle stock. These firearms are a great deal. I'm just starting to get into flintlock. I'm working my way back in time from ARs/AKs to eventually flintlock...lol. Great videos...thanks!
I took a class earlier this year hosted by the curator at Fort Ticonderoga here in NY where we were able to examine and handle original British arms including several different patterns of Brown Bess muskets. He told me that the Indian made guns like those at Veteram Arms are closer, maybe not 100% but closer to the original guns in look and assembly than anything Pedersoli makes. Pedersoli overbuilds all their guns, the stocks are way too thick at least compared to the original guns in most cases.
That’s good to know! Yeah the Veteran Arms gun is great, can’t wait to shoot it. When I get the money I do want to purchase a Pedersoli 1766 and compare it, they have European Walnut stocks so I want to see the weight difference.
The Pedersoli 1766’s are not even available online from my searching and they cost like $1800 online.
I find it ironic how distributors choose to meticulously package repops and yet my original 1816 came to me with effectively remnants of a cardboard box crudly taped around it with the hammer sticking out from shipping.
Ooof that’s rough. So far everything I’ve ordered original or not has been properly packaged. I’d be livid if a historic piece was damaged in transit due to laziness
Enjoyed the video. An interesting time in history
Definitely! Since I released this video, I've actually discovered a mark on my original musket that might have originated from an American Arsenal during the war. It's truly amazing to be able to hold a piece of history in my hands and learn from it.
@@revere0311 you guys are so lucky in some ways to have that history. I love some of the things that are recorded from those times. But alas like all history, on all countries there are things that happened that are terrible. I am interested in things man made not so much the bad things. Flintlocks are what I am interested in but very hard to get hold of in my country.
For veteran arms to claim it's an exact copy but have a much thicker stock and larger trigger guard isn't great BUT it's still a nice looking musket
You forgot to mention that the Veteran Arms Charleville comes with a much later style lock plate. Notice that your original has a tail at the rear.
Also the shape of the comb which you refer to as the butt is fairly significant once you learn what your looking at.
Correct! I definitely struggle on some of the terminology for this one. In my Flintlock Friday going over the Mle 1766/70 I do a better overview.
Yutt, 0311 for 12 years, huge 18th century fan, found your channel just now, Semper Fi
welcome! Glad to have you!
this will serve burke county well.
That 1777 is in amazing condition! Do you plan on having you're new 1768 defarbed?
Yes! Do you have recommendations?
Check out comers gun work@@revere0311
Great video! I’ve had good luck and bad luck when it comes to Veteran Arms muskets, but if you get one that functions correctly they will treat you well.👍🏻
Thanks! That Spanish musket you have is a real beauty, it’s now on my list to pick up as well.
@@revere0311 I recommend it! If you do get one, just know, there’s no barrel band springs for the barrel bands, so there’s a chance they might come loose like mine did.
Unpin your barrel, coat the underside in Rig Grease, after 2 years of never taking my barrel off, not a spot of rust.
Thanks for this! I’ll do that
Veteran arms used to sell charleville and it would actually say Charleville on the lock. Now it seems it’s unmarked and it’s the exact same firelock as their 1795 Springfield. I have their 1795 Springfield and it’s literally the exact one you have there. Military Heritage Charleville’s and 1795 Springfields re marked as such. But of course they are not ready to fire out of the box like a veteran arms. Mine was very nicely fit and shoots well like yours.
This is a helpful video, its been hard to find information on the quality of these reproductions. The Pedersoli ones are way out of my budget.
I also had similar thoughts, and I'm glad you enjoyed it! In the future I plan buying a Pedersoli 1766 and doing a review about it as well, see if it’s worth almost 2x the cost. When I get there that is lol
@revere0311 The Pedersoli guns look very nice, hope one I could afford one.
Just bought a 1798 Springfield, ( I think 🤔) haven't got it yet... might be a Charlie however it was fixed up after the civil war with a barrel conversion to percussion and a Potsdam Lock. However it has early slings with out the rivets... its for parts. Its also cut to 39... 44" - 42" or 40 depending... the early Springfields are very different until 1816, some 1808's stand out. I ebay Original parts for reenactors and collectors. Unconverted full length original barrels go for $$$ however stocks are like hens teeth. The Shape of the Original lock is very telling, the Teet behind the cock is outstanding 👌
Great video. Around how much does an original cost?
Glad you liked!
What I’ve seen from online auctions, it ranges from $3500-8000. The range is quite large. The ones that pull the premium usually have the ‘U•STATES’ branded into the stock.
Mine was $5,500, I won the auction at $4,000, then an additional $1500 in shipping, tax and the auction house cut.
Semper Fi brother, I am a member of the SAR in Washington State.. I need to purchase a uniform, where did you buy yours? Cost has gone up and quality varies a lot from one source to another
Townsend made my regimental coat, and in my opinion is the go-to for a wide range of products and services, and in my opinion, it is worth the cost. When it comes to hats, there are several options available on Etsy that have received positive feedback. 'Dirty Billy' is known for creating excellent custom hats that are highly regarded. Additionally, my custom-made west coat (vest), linen shirt, and gaitered trousers were all crafted by a skilled seamstress from Colonial Williamsburg.
I recommend avoiding ordering from G G Godwin online. My experience with them involved a long wait of over two years and multiple emails before my order was fulfilled.
In conclusion, I recommend relying on Townsend for most of your needs. Despite the initial high cost, the quality of materials, customer service, and return policy make it a worthwhile choice.
I have no problems with my India made muskets. I have some originals but I almost exclusively shoot the replicas.
What unit do you reenact with?
7th Virginia & Burke County
Real talk, why are Rev War reenactors afraid of stripping the Brown Bess? 😂
I've been lucky enough to rebuild an original and had a real nice Dublin Castle from Veteran Arms. (Which I should add was very well done with a lot of the metal work including the lock being made with the proper shapes.) As my old unit's cook I also ended up acting as armorer a good bit and the amount of gunk I'd clean because even our Captain was terrified of dissassembly drove to the rum stash. 18th Century Arms makes an awesome turn screw with a vent pick that is just right size for the pins and the bend makes a great small hammer for extra encouragement. Like don't take it off all the time, but like at the end of the season it's a good habit to get everything cleaned and oiled.
Don't be like me who is always paranoid of my Veteran Arms doglock and end up taking it apart monthly to make sure it's doing good.
This gun is made in India?
Yes, then shipped to the states and the company Veteran Arms does some work on them before selling them to the US market.
is it safe to fire a gun that is so old?
That's an excellent question! It's a topic that sparks debates. Personally, I wouldn't. Typically, people tend to decrease the loads when firing older firearms, but with modern reproductions, shooting them at full load can provide a more "authentic" firing experience. However, I recently heard that the main concern might not be the barrel or mechanical parts, but rather the wood on the stock, especially for this one being 250 years old.
At the end of the day for me it’s having a piece of history, if I want to shoot a musket I’ll grab a reproduction.
thanks for responding. I guess it according to what condition the gun is in.@@revere0311
They are all variants of the Model 1766...
As stated in the video