Confederate Whitworth Sniper: Hexagonal Bullets in 1860
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- NOTE: Please see this video for a correction regarding Whitworth accuracy: • Correction: Whitworth ...
Sir Joseph Whitworth is quite the famous name in engineering circles, credited with the development of such things as Whitworth threading (the first standardized thread pattern) and engineer’s blue. When he decided to make a rifle, he decided that he could make flat surfaces more precisely than round ones, and chose to design a rifle with a hexagonal bore and mechanically fitted bullets.
The Whitworth rifles proved to be magnificently accurate, with a British military test showing a group of 0.85 MOA at 500 yards, and under 8MOA even at 1800 yards. However, the rifles were equally expensive, and were not given further consideration for military use. Whitworth made a total of about 13,700, selling them to high level competitive marksmen and wealthy shooting enthusiasts. A small number were purchased by Confederate agents during the Civil War, and between 50 and 125 were able to evade the Union blockades to be delivered into Confederate hands. These rifles were equipped with Davidson 4-power telescopic sights, and they were put to extremely good effect by Confederate sharpshooting units. In particular, they were used to shoot at Union artillery crews, and Whitworth bullets have been found on a great many Civil War battlefields. They were not available in large numbers, but they were excellent rifles and put to use as much as possible.
Given the small number originally brought into the CSA, the number of known surviving examples is extremely low. This one, like many, was found without its scope and mount, and those parts have been replaced with period examples. As a true Confederate Whitworth, however, this is an extremely rare and historically relevant rifle!
/ forgottenweapons
Cool Forgotten Weapons merch! shop.forgottenw...
Wikipedia has a list of 'longest recorded sniper kills'- The Whitworth rifle is the only muzzle-loader on it, making a kill from 1,271 meters.
Also only one of two black powder shots recorded, the only other one being a centerfire .50-90 Sharps buffalo rifle.
I'm guessing they won that skirmish and had the time to actually measure it when billy-bob said something to the effect of "Ezra you fucking liar, that's not 1,200 meters!" To which Ezra said something like, "Oh yeah? Watch."
To measure distance somebody needs only very simple optical instrument.
Map charting and land measuring was used to find distance, as today also there was good early range finder optic for the artillery also. And a lot of range keasuring learnt by a lomg time in the bush.
that's fucking amazing
Have you seen those Confederates from Alabama? I hear they've got hexagonal bullets! Hexagonal. Bullets.
My brain read that to me in the proper voice, too... Thanks, I needed a good belly laugh today.
I used to be a Confederate like you, but then I took a minié ball to the knee...
Damn Imperial bastards, I bet they're behind these gods-forsaken cannon attacks.
The first time I heard that was in whiterun. Funniest thing I've ever heard
then they had to amputate my leg ...
That $96 in 1860 is equivalent to about $3000 today
Shit is getting expensive
Sold for $161,000 !!!!!
That's below average for a modern sniper rifle.
So still way less expensive than a PSG1. It is actual pretty close to what you would pay for a bolt action with similar accuracy now.
Remember that's without the scope, which would surely be another $3000 in today's money. Experienced marksmen know that cutting edge optics will cost as much as the rifle itself.
It was not just engineers blue, but the understanding that by using it along with a scraper and three or better four rough blocks of cast iron you could generate near optically flat surfaces, by hand. From that all engineering precision and metrology followed. Whitworth also invented the micrometer. He was also the father of the idea of interchangeable parts. Not bad for one lifetime.
Wasn't Eli Whitney the father of interchangeable parts two years before Whitworth was born? Based on the earlier works of Honoré Blanc?
Gihren
Maybe OP is talking about in respect to firearms?
Abdega
So was I.
You're telling me he invented lapping?
@@AS-Val-Gijinka No, hes talking about scraping flats using the 3 plate method.
The 1/4" Whitworth screw thread is still in use worldwide on cameras as the tripod mounting screw.
Yep...
No shit that's a awesome tidbit
Is it Whitworth or UTS? Wikipedia says most cameras use 1/4-20 UNC, a UTS thread. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripod_(photography). Whitworth threads have an included angle of 55°, UTS (and ISO) are 60°.
@@BravoCharleses Maybe the UTS threads have evolved from Whitworth pitch? I can imagine older (late 1800s and early 1900s) photo gear being Whitworth thread as well as telescope tripods, because the UTS standard was not drafted yet in that time period.
Yeah. Always struck me as odd that I could mount a digital camera to a 100 year old surveying tripod with the original screw. That's how I filmed my aunt's wedding.
Imagine being some Union dude 1k yards back thinking you're totally safe and your buddy just falls over followed by a faint "yee yee!" from the Confederate line.
Not really. The whole Whitworth as amazing sniper rifle is overblown.
Make that "Yeet! yeet!"
@@FIREBRAND38 Did you listen to this video?
Gen John Sedgwick's last words "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..."
There's a very good (and hard) game called Ultimate General: Civil War where you can actually equip your men with this gun - and that is basically how it goes!
“Darn it, I’ve been shot! Someone get the Allen keys so I can get this bullet out of me!” 😂
Amazon forgot to send them
🤣
That is so fucked i love it
this gave me a good chuckle.
Using a socket to engage the outside would have been too painful!!
9:50 Imagine a sniper shooting like that. Chillest recorded kill in history.
There has to be at least one.
@@richhartnell6233 right, they wouldn't have written it down or anything if it never worked. Or it would be recorded as "that dumbass stance cletus takes then he falls asleep"
Lmao
When he first said “shooting from your back” I thought he meant laying completely flat on your back with the gun overhead, the opposite way of your feet, parallel with the ground.
The pic he showed made much more sense lol.
@@zachyurkus same, thought he was shooting upside down haha
"Expensive gun, how expensive could it possibly be"
Sold for $161,000.
|____):
I think thats a fair price (taking in account its a bidding price). Its a super rare quite old hisorical artifact
Dat emoticon, lol
Adjusting the 1860 price for inflation would put it just above $2,700.00. No matter if you go off sticker price or auction price, that's an expensive rifle and worth it.
:OOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
@@erwin669 and always will worth
Found one bullet at monocacy battlefield in frederick MD and gave it to the park ranger and it was sent to the museum it was sticking out of the river bank
Good on you man. If anyone else found the cartridge they’d probably take it home as a badass souvenir myself included. But to put it in a museum rather than being selfish is something I really respect.
who cares
@@hunter9403 as of right now at least 491 people. which apparently is 490 more than those who care about your comment.
@@hunter9403 you commenting on a 3 year old comment lmao.
@@trevordavis8210 “it belongs in a museum!”
“So do you, Dr. Jones!”
That rifle would have been a game changer had it been cheaper. Those moa numbers with that level of tech are insane.
Doubt many shooters in the day could take advantage of it. They probably got as many as they could realistically use.
For most soldiers the drop in rate of fire (even compared to other muzzle loaders) and specialized ammunition would more than offset any gains from accuracy.
As the video points out, though, the rest of the rifle was crap.
For the job of a sharpshooter, it was incredible.
As a main battle rifle for routine infantry, they might have been better off with a Brown Bess.
Phos9 Yeah, I have to agree with you on this. Even if we set aside the logistical issues of specialized ammo, and the cost of the weapon, making proper use of it en-masse would have required an overhaul of existing military doctrine.
I watched the correction video.
@@Justanotherconsumer r
9:50
"Draw me like one of your French girls"
Ok Jack
No one ever shot like that I mean if they did they must be idiotic haha
@@DennisRash they did use the shooting position quite a lot.
Different time and place I suppose then. But jeez who would do that with today's knowledge xD
@@DennisRash yes looks pretty uncomfortable haha.
Im indeed flabbergasted at the idea that people back then, with no crazy precise mechanical machining that we have today, achieved accuracy that only the best snipers in the modern era can achieve with modern optics, rifles, and ammunition. They did it all with sub par steel and black powder
It is worth noting that Whitworth invented some of the tools and techniques that we still use today for precision manufacturing. It has gotten much easier to mass produce objects to tight tolerances, but for the very tightest of tolerances that require precision lapping, we still use very old methods sometimes. For example, using Whitworth's three plate lapping method it is possible to get a reference surface that is flat within 0.00001 inches or better. At the Great Exhibition of 1851, Whitworth demonstrated an instrument capable of measuring to 1 millionth of an inch (25 nm). This guy definitely could do crazy precise machining.
You can buy an off the shelf rifle that is alteast as accurate. This rifle probably costed a kings ransom at the time of its manufacture.
Many factors of shooting accuracy is in the shooter rather than the rifle. Few people could shoot a lazer and score a .5 moa grouping at 500 yards fewer still with a rifle with recoil and ballistic factors.
@Jaime Perez I know! It's crazy, isn't it?
It is worth noting that black powder was by this time a thoroughly-explored subject. I expect a gun like this would require very precise manufacture of propellant for consistent and sustained performance. The craftsmen behind weaponry and mining endeavors had by this time figured out not only how to maximize the potency of "powdre" but also how to temper it to get even combustion throughought the barrel of larger weapons instead of a single explosive jolt. This knowledge was one of the many forerunners of modern science. It is through the intense study of black powder (especially "nitre" and its interactions) that the vagueries of ancient alchemy gradually evolved into modern chemistry. And even ballistics to boot -- ancient and medieval people held beliefs about trajectories that seem absurd by today's standards.
Jaime Perez it is worth noting that these rifles were not as accurate as this particular videos makes it out to be. Check his correction video for revised Witworth accuracy.
You forgot to mention that he had figured out that a 1 in 20 twist was a sweet spot he had worked out to produce a very stable projectile. It contributes to the accuracy immensely.
Is that one rotation every 20 feet or every bullet length?
@@RainytheNB 1 in 20 feet
Jack it’s 1 twist of the bullet every 20 inches of barrel
Alistair Shaw 1:20 inches, for every 20 inches of barrel there is 1 full rotation of the bullet in the barrel
@@jordanwiser9011 doh.
Woke, Puckle: Square bullets for Turks.
Bespoke, Witworth: Hold my beer.
Ian looks like Civil War soldier. If he untied his ponytail he would look like General Custer's clone.
Imagine if he has a girlfriend or wife that is an Indian, he would be Custer reincarnated.
And on the next episode of Forgotten Weapons - Down with the Eagle, up with the Cross.
Ragnarok Stravius Except that Custer didn't have an Indian wife, he was married to a White woman named Libby, iirc.
To further the Custer look Ian would also have to curl his hair since Custer was known to have curled hair and can be seen in many pictures. However, with the SJWs and radical left running rampant, depending on where exactly Ian lives he might get in trouble for dressing up as Custer for Halloween since to those people Custer is almost as evil as Hitler.
I tried to do a "Custer's revenge" joke, but my ability at jokes is almost null.
Not blonde enough.
"they couldn't hit an elephant at this dist-" famous last words of General Sedgwick.
Was he slain by a Whitworth Rifle?
PS: before you tell me he didn't get his final word cut off, I'm the one telling the story!
Cut off or not, it hardly detracts from the irony of his last words regardless: felled by the very men he was mocking. It is recorded that yes: he was hit in the side of his head by a Whitworth bullet, instantly dropping to the ground, never regaining consciousness.
The really ironic part is that the shape of the Whitworth bullet gave is a distinct sound as it passed by, so he probably had an idea of just how close the bullets were before he was hit.
The major historical significance of this rifle was its pioneering capability of weaponizing D20s..
nerd 😁
Roll your stats. In order. At 500 yard.
"What? Men dodging this way for single bullets? What will you do when they open fire along the whole line? I am ashamed of you. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance." Although ashamed, his men continued to flinch and he repeated, "I'm ashamed of you, dodging that way. They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..!" General Sedwick, shot 9 mai 1864 with a Whitworth rifle,straight under one eye. Fell down quite dead.
I don't think his sentence was cut off by being shot - that is a modern urban legend. But it was a Whitworth that killed Sedgwick - Enfields were just not capable of thatkind of long-range accuracy.
hah I was thinking of this story while he was talking about the gun wondering if it was the one responsible.
Came here for this, "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance." infamous last words
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance" Famous last words
Quite dead. Yes, I imagine so, struck below the eye by a . 52 caliber bullet.
96 dollars?
My red dead online character:
*psh, that's chump change*
That's also ~35 years later. :P
Postwar inflation
Oh yes, RDR Online, the game where you pay 750 dollars for a fucking campfire. 😂
@@gonnegottkehaskamp1667 what do you mean a game that people call realistic is not 100 percent acurrate in monetary aspects?
@@The.Red.Tomahawk yes it’s grossly inflated in rdr2
So... the accuracy international of its day?
I'd believe it.
MajesticDemonLord used by former colonies to great effect- check
No ruclips.net/video/cUd2RQGfL7E/видео.html
Remember on me sniper Cadre in 1996 using the L96 accuracy international with Schmidt and Bender scope..
The sniper telephone number for measure clicks was 223435678.
Amazing the shite remember..
Whitworth invented ability to measure to one millionth of an inch, he was a genius
I've never seen the word "sniper" used in period literature; the term then seems to have been sharpshooter. Down the road in Knoxville there is a historical marker concerning a U.S. General killed by a sharpshooter's bullet fired from a certain tower which still exists. I did a rough measure of the distance using the odometer and got 9/10's of a mile.
I use to know that generals name. Sanders sounds familiar.
9/10s of a mile... almost metric
Quite possibly because (at that time) it was still a relatively new English word that had yet to catch on to replace "sharpshooter." Wouldn't be until early 1800's that it would be recorded in a British paper as slang from troops returning from India.
@@robertpatton5083 Sedgwick, I believe. Killed as he was trying to shame his men into standing up in a line of battle.
Look up Jack Hinson -snipet
Anybody else playing the game of 'guess the guns behind Ian'?
Pissed-off husky that definitely is not a Bren gun’s stock, looks like a Type 96 or Type 99 machine gun.
Pissed-off husky looks like a Type 96 or 99, not a Bren. Could be wrong
Pissed-off husky I can't tell exactly what it is, but that's definitely not a Bren Gun - totally different buttstock on it. Japanese perhaps?
+MosoKaiser that was my guess
Yep I think it's a Japanese type 99
The company that produced the Whitworth Rifle went out of business, but Joseph Whitworth died a very wealthy man. Almost all of the precision machining and measuring tools have a direct linage to his work. He also standardized the machine screw, making interchangeable parts possible.
Yes, that is amazing accuracy by any standard. I had a friend that rebuilt 4x4 vehicles, particularly vintage Broncos, Toyotas and Land Rovers. It is here that I first heard Whitworth's name, generally accompanied by a string of profanity.
@@cap5856 Whitworth bolts are just a little bit different to everything else. And not in a good way.
Yeah, never use the bolts that hold a modern landrovers spare tire onto the rack for holding that tire onto the hub. The hub is Whitworth, the spare tire rack is metric.
WHAT IS MINUTE OF ANGLE? SEE BELOW
An ‘MOA’, or Minute of Angle, in relation to firearm accuracy refers to the capability that a firearm has to consistently deliver a grouping of shots at a particular distance. For example: One MOA = at 100 yards is a 1” group. One MOA at 200 yards is a 2” group, at 300 yards a 3” group, etc.
Sub-MOA refers to, a single group of shots or an average of several groups, that will measure less than one MOA between the two furthest shots in the group, meaning all shots fall under a one MOA.
What does this mean to the average shooter? A rifle that is capable of one minute of angle (MOA) or better is very, very consistent, and consistency means accuracy. If you are shooting a Sub MOA rifle out to 1,000 yards, your rifle has the capability to hit a target that is at least 10” in size.
To put this into perspective, a full size IPSC silhouette is 40” tall by 19.5” wide, with a head of about 6×6”. An NBA basketball is about 9.5” in diameter and a golf ball is 1.7” in diameter, so the accuracy that a Sub MOA rifle offers is imperative if you are looking to shoot long range. Shooting a full size steel target at 1000 yards is a much easier task with a Sub-MOA rifle than one that is not, is essence.
I learned something new today, respect
Great explanation I only kinda understood before this thank you !
Do you still go bowling much?
Whitworth cannons using the same principle played an important role in the Second Carlist War, in the early 1870s. In fact it gave birth to the popular expression of refering to an explosion or a shell as a "pepino" (cucumber), because of the shape of the hexagonal projectiles.
They also used Whitworth cannons during the Civil War.
Así que de ahí viene la expresión del "pepinazo". Interesante dato.
In Crimean war all whitworths cannons blew up
What is the size of bore in the Whiteorth Canon? I wonder how much torque is applied with hex vs rifled barrels.
The breachloaded Krupp-cannons were also used in the Danish-German war of 1864.
You need to read the book "Co. Aytch" by confederate private Sam Watkins. In the chapter "Target Shooting" he writes about the Whitworth rifle and what soldiers had to be capable of in order to be equipped with this weapon. Only the very best marksmen could get their hands on this.
A.P. Stewart, Fairfield, Tennessee was one of the proving grounds. Archaeology soundings in 1977 discovered the back stop that ironically was the same backstop as was used during the Tennessee 1942/43 Maneuvers...
*Drinking Game:* Take a shot every time Ian says “hexagonal”.
*stirbt ohne Verzögerung an einer Alkoholvergiftung*
I died
*becomes belt-dad*
but we have not seen a single hexagonal bullet in the whole vid have we?
#hammered
The scope is on the side so it can be canted down far enough so you can shoot at long range. Black powder can only drive a bullet so fast, and they drop quite a lot. The irons are for closer range. It wouldn't work properly if it were mounted on top
That explains a lot. Thanks gov'nor 👍🏿.
I watched the whole video hoping the entire time that you’d show one of the bullets. Bummer
You can find molds to cast your own bullets for this firearm
Smarter Every Day shows one in video on precision. He arise shows a Whitworth canon in another video.
a year old...but here you go
ruclips.net/video/83gGIotGXN8/видео.html
Yeah me too.
so i did a bit of research into the accuracy of this rifle and how it compares to modern sniper rifles. I have to say i understand the astonishment Eian shows throughout this video. He isent lying when he says most modern guns arent capable of this guns level of accuracy. the only guns that i could find that really outclass the whitworth are very modern and advanced sniper systems like the AW super magnum. Let me say that again, a percussion cap muzzle loading black powder rifle from the 1860's is more accurate then most modern rifles today! My small amount of research has led me to believe the Sir Whitworth was indeed a time traveling gunsmith from a far off era where traditional firearms are obsolete and that he went back to eighteen sixty just so he could be appreciated. That or he was one hell of an engineer. Now as i said my research was limited so feel free to correct me.
@ralife11379
You need to take a cleansing breath and follow the link in the description where Ian corrects his overstatement of the level of precision of this rifle.
ralife11379 It’s more accurate than most most modern rifles because modern rifles don’t need to be accurate to 1km most of time and in fact, it’s part of the design to have them be slightly inaccurate.
@@nolategame6367 You didn't read my previous comment. Follow the link to the correction video in the description. The Whitworth is about as accurate as a Colt M16A2 firing M855 Ball ammo.
@@nolategame6367 ruclips.net/video/cUd2RQGfL7E/видео.html
The company founded by Joseph Whitworth eventually went on to become part of Armstrong Whitworth, which produced aircraft until the 1950s.
They also produced large guns up to battleship size. W G Armstrong was Whitworth's chief competitor until the companies merged into Armstrong Whitworth in 1897. They also built battleships.
Hi Ian, a bit of information for you regarding "inferior steel". The trails for the British army for this rifle happened in 1857. In 1856 Sir Henry Bessemer patented the "Bessemer process" for producing higher quality steel in Britain. Britain is also very lucky in so far as it's iron ore contains very little sulpher, decreasing it's brittleness and increasing it's working temperatures. So even if the Bessemer process had nothing to do with the manufacture of the barrels for the Whitworth, the steel quality was much higher than other European countries, and the Americas.
I cannot find a direct link between Bessemer and Whitworth, but as with Watt and Wilkinson in the 18th Century British engineers had a habit of keeping an ear to the ground on technological enhancements and quickly using them to make their own designs better. Bessemers' steel works in Sheffield was only 30 miles away from Whitworth factory in Manchester though, So chances are they may have at the very least conversed.
Sadly the UK doesn't even have a primary steel manufacturing plant anymore. We only melt and recycle steel, and don't even have a way of manufacturing the gun barrels for our Challenger tanks.
How the mighty fall.
The sun never sets on the Brit-
Oh, wait.
benn454 it still doesnt because we still own the pitcairns, Gibraltar, the BVI and the Falklands. All those mean it will be like 2110 something before the sun will ever set on the british empire.
But thats talking literally.
The sun never sets on the British Empire because not even God would trust it in the dark lol.
Comes the dawn and god looks on his creation....wdf is that continent doing...and whats up with the moon..?!
How indeed. Over on the free(er) side of the pond we have started but hopefully President Trump continues to adopt America first policies. I truly hope that you guys over there are able to stop the Orwellian political landscape you have, that being said, we can not forget all the amazing things that the history of European nations have given us, personal freedom, the concept of liberty, innocent until proven guilty, religious tolerance and the first to abolish slavery. For all the current ills the good things that that area has done for the world far far outweigh any ills suffered to date.
Did the confedorates lose because they tried noscoping with these rifles?
Random nothingness they probably lost because of more major factors. 125 rifles at most wouldn't have won the war for them, regardless of how they used them.
But if you're being silly, then you made me laugh
MrYaniv99 it's a joke question that made me laugh too
Not exactly. After the first noscope, they would engage in a celebratory tea bagging over the fresh corpse. Then, another enemy soldier simply walked up behind them with a bayonet.
We did not lose the war General Lee was willing to save more lives than loose more lives" 250000 dead already, and how many more?" And his health was failing as well. So he surrendered to the Union.
That's $3,006 in 2020 dollars
Not just a rifle, but a lug wrench!
It makes me wonder just how effective a hexagonal rifle pattern would be when fabricated with modern machining and metallurgy.
That's basically what Glocks have, albeit without the bullet to match. "Polygonal rifling" means that there aren't conventional lands and grooves but flat surfaces.
@@vicroc4 idk. The Glock 43x barrel in my hand looks a lot like traditional rifling to me.
I want to see more civil war weapons. Gun Jesus hear my pray.
Enjoy the violence
Vulcan?
there is only one Gun Jesus and he has an AK-47
I thought 500 yards would be out of the question, but 1800 is crazy. Great video
One mile is 1770 yards. Think about that.
@@joshuahjfarquharm.3269The whole idea is mind blowing. Also i see in the movies people beefing up the powder to get extra range, imagine how many times that went bad. I also think about how much practicing had to go into that. I didn't think the scopes were any good back then, i remember as a kid growing up, if you dropped something it broke, if something got jarred quickly sometimes it broke. Then to be able to keep a scoped rifle carried, bounced around on horseback and it worked is amazing.
@@thomasbroking7943 Its INSANE, you can't really even see that far (500yards +).....Its INSANE that 150 years ago rifles were all ready more accurate than the biological (human) component. You're right you NEED a scope...and if you drop the weapon...then you've lost reliable placement...So I have NO idea how they were doing that. Its like the Pyramids.
Those weren't human sized targets at 1800 yards, calm down.
@@FIREBRAND38 it's black powder hitting anything past 100yards is impressive. I didn't even know they shot that far, i thought it would be more like a shotgun.
1860: $96
2019: $2923.67
So is the bore measured from flat to flat or from corner to corner?
Flat to flat, most likely.
9:46 "...or, you can assume what seems a very painful yoga stance or a very weird kamasutra position"
Here`s a question and a bit of context, I live in the UK and have the most draconian gun laws, if I used a whitworth styled barrel for a firearm and used modern concepts such as Nitro powder and a self loading bolt and magazine, could this be used to legally get around the semi-automatic rifle ban in the UK?
Under UK law if a firearm is smooth-boor its a shotgun not a rifle.
I don't think so. Firstly, no constabulary in the UK would accept that a Whitworth barrel was smoothbore. Even if you were to install a truly unrifled barrel onto a self-loading, magazine-fed system it would still not be acceptable on a shotgun certificate unless the capacity was no more than 2 and it was chambered for shotgun ammunition, rendering the exercise futile. You can't just put a smoothbarrel on an AR15 and call it a shotgun. You can't even buy slugs without specific permit. Furthermore, this is a black powder weapon. It was an exceptional design using the expertise and technology of the time, however precision machining has come a long way since 1860.
As a felon in the US, for cannabis....and still the owner of 4 hand guns, 3 Aks, 1 ar, 4 hunting rifles & 2 shotguns....I feel your pain.
I'm sitting on the rest of my life, time wise. Why? Because of a plant. Same concept. It's so stupid.
Ian you are just the best. So much of your content fulfils longstanding ambitions I've had to see and learn about firearms that I simply do not have access to, and without much or any (easily accessible) quality content on - the Whitworth is a perfect example of this. Thank you!
Fun fact Whitworth also invented the micrometer!
Something else which would definitely improve accuracy with these rifles would be a high quality powder. American made powder wasn't as high quality as Brit or French powder back in civil war days. Simon DuPont figured that out and took the time to produce the same quality powder from his own plants he set up in the US ... DuPont made an absolute fortune by doing so and still is!
For anyone interested in actually seeing this Confederate bad boy in action look it up on RUclips there's a 1300 yard shot video
It was Brunel the younger who worked with Westley Richards on polygonal bores. He chose not to patent it so that Britain could benefit from this free. Then Whitworth was paid by Parliament to make a better rifle and he engaged Westley Richards to do the development manufacturing. Whitworth simply took Brunel's work and patented it. What Whitworth brought was the precision engineering and combining a long bullet with a fast twist. When Westley Richards later introduced their breech loading carbine (aka 'Monkey Tail') it was in Brunel octagonal bore with 'Whitworth Patent' ( I have one of these) on the barrel but old man Whitworth never got a penny of patent payments from Westley Richards as he knew he would lose in court.
BTW shooters found that cylindrical lead bullets worked better in the hexagonal bore, expanding to fit. Whitworth suggested and successfully tried iron hexagonal bullets for best penetration. The Whitworth was overtaken in target shooting by better fast twist ordinary rifling muzzle loaders like like Metford, Gibbs, Rigby or Henry.
Joseph Whitworth was a very fine engineer but inclined to pinch other's work too and could be 'economical with the truth'. That is why he was a millionaire and Brunel was not. Brunel was (in the proper sense) a gentleman.
Good answer. There's some guys fire these near me sometimes and it's great to watch.
where was the gun made?
Thanks for sharing the information, very interesting. Brunel became a hero of mine as a 15yr old writing for my cse history. Though I actually entered the work to my engineering /metalwork cse. I don't understand that now, but I guess it made sense at the time. What a giant of mankind he was.
So..basically; Whitworth was the Edison of the Gunsmithing world....
thank you
It's not just an accurate rifle. It also just looks really good. My main problem with modern rifles are that they simply don't look as nice as the old wooden designs.
Remember this from playing Sierra Civil War games in t he 90ies
me too good childhood memories
Load up those floppie disks.
Watching Capandball has taught me that Whitworth knew his shit
Btw, $90 in 1860 was equivalent to $2,500 today
So just a fraction of what a modern extreme precision rifle like the CheyTac M200 will cost you. Then why was the Whitworth rifle considered way too expensive at the time? Was it because it performed below average in any category other than precision? That is to some degree still the case for modern precision rifles so I'm kind of lost here.
People just didn't have that kind of money to spend back in the day. The standard of living back then was way lower than it is today. In addition, it was kind of hard to justify buying a $90 rifle just to give it to an illiterate hillbilly.
Did he break new ground?
No it wasn't, if you measure it against earnings it was more like $40k. A blacksmith (skilled middle class worker) earned $85 a year so this was a seriously expensive item. Source here www.nber.org/chapters/c2500.pdf
I thought the primary purpose of Engineers Blue was to apply to the ear protectors of workshop apprentices...
loooool, indeed m8
Is that whilst you sent them to collect spare bubbles for the spirit-level?
@@richardbrown3316 dont forget the sky hooks while you're there
And make sure the welding apprentices are collecting their spark samples
Red stamp pad ink on black toilet seats. . .
They could make precision clocks and watches in the 1860's so making an accurate rifle was not a superhuman task.
it's always great to see an enthusiast like Ian completely geeking out over an exceptional bit of history like this.
Whitworth was a brilliant man, I'm glad you mentioned him, he standardised precision.
There is a street name after him , Whitworth Street in cantral Manchester .
Ah, Whitworth thread. The bane of british car enthusiasts the world 'round. at least...when it's not Lucas electrics. or leaking.
James McHenry What was it used for on cars? I'm very curious.
from what I've read, early MGs used it for about everything. I've heard of other makes using the thread form as well, don't know for what, exactly.
Why do the English drink warm beer
because Lucas makes refrigerators.
@@AgamemnonTWC my minor has it all through the body and suspension. The engine however has whitworth sized heads with metric threads
If you had an original 1965 BSA Lightning 650, you had American, Metric and Whitworth threads on the machine. lol
Whitworth also produced an hexagonal rifled cannon, normally just called the "Whitworth Rifle." It was a high velocity, high accuracy cannon used by the Confederacy and the Union (once captured), but also expensive, and thus rare. It's main use was as a counter-battery cannon, since it could hit point targets at ranges exceeding that of smoothbore cannon. It also made a characteristic warbling sound as the round traveled due to the shape of the hexagonal solid shot bolt that was fired.
I remember reading about these guns in a book called "Sniping in the Great War" when the allies were developing sniper training courses the designs of this gun were considered for production pre World War I.
Another remarkably interesting and informative vid, Ian. You always bring us the coolest content. Were I not broke I would throw money at your Patreon.
I live in Manchester UK and I find it amazing the even in our local Science and Industry Museum Whitworth gets no credit at all for his feat in armaments. It's like we are in denial he was even associated with the armaments industry.
Amazing! Fantastic video, thank you. I read somewhere of shooters using the Baker rifle from a supine position in the Peninsular campaign, so the idea must have been around for a long time before this rifle was made. Would anyone out there have more details on the scope? Also, it is possible that Whitworth broached or forged the barrel straight and then twisted it over a mandrel to the final rifling twist. Chances are any visual evidence on the barrel would have been removed to preserve secrecy, but corrosion patterns would give it away, any ideas?
Ian when are you gonna review that M60 behind you??
r h Guns don't really have to be rare or forgotten to be on the channel, though.
Based on the massive cost I wonder how many man-hours it took to machine the Whitworth barrel compared to a conventional barrel. And, if this original Whitworth is too expensive, Pedersoli has a reproduction for a bit cheaper price.
This is one of your most interesting videos yet Ian. I came to an interest in guns through video games (originally being from the northwest) but have slowly been acquiring knowledge and opinions through RUclips. It amazes me that this gun doesn't receive a lot more attention for how ahead of it's time it was (despite the cost). I wish media executives could see the potential in channel's like yours and improve the quality of other media sources.
Great video
Aah Mr 55 deg thread form
I think you missed Whitworth's core belief "Repeatability"
Did he or his company eventually go on to become part of Vickers?
Any way nice piece definitely worth a shooting video if possible??
Yes... Whitworth was taken over by Armstrong to form Armstrong Whitworth, which then became Vickers Armstrong.. now BAE Systems.
Felix The Cat
A maternal uncle (by marrage) used to, and I presume still does, build Harrier AV8s, and several predecessors, when BAE Systems was just BAe ... lost touch with him years ago, but he did alot of stuff at my mums house, with an amazing degree of engineering tolerance, that I envied ... he was pretty cool guy to hang around with, but I guess all those long hours at work cost him his marriage ... pity, really ...
It's quite pleasant to see a weapon made from my home town in the UK on Forgotten Weapons
The load for this isn't different from the black powder load for the later 45-70. 530gr bullet with 70grs of black powder.
The ability to do a 4.4" group at 500 yards is astounding in that day. Once an accurate range was established and firing table consulted, it was no wonder the Confederates wanted them for Federal officer and cannon crew removers.
It is astounding. Follow the link to the video in the description for a correction.
As a child I visited the old Whitworth factory in Manchester and saw his reference thread and reference flat surface. I would guess that they are in a museum somewhere now.
Whitworth threads were still in use then for gate hinges and similar; brass pipe fitting are available in Whitworth thread, along with nuts and bolts.
I wonder if we'll ever get a look at that Chauchat back there.
There's a Chauchat video already ;)
Sander Kalsbeek, not of that one.
I hear the Belgian Chauchaut was the best.
Lovely video Ian. I really enjoy the ingenuity and skill of the early gunsmiths and engineers who were making great leaps into the unknown and pushing the limits of materials, design, and technology. After George Stephenson and Isambard Kingdom Brunel Sir Joseph Whitworth was probably the greatest engineer of the time. I would expect a high order of accuracy from this gun as it was designed and manufactured by a man who invented a measuring device accurate to one millionth of an inch. This was in Victorian times when other engineers were using simple hinged callipers and a steel rule accurate to 1/16th of an inch. In modern comparison one micron is a millionth of a metre, and there are thirty nine inches to a metre.
i have found a hexagonal bullet in Texas hill country
Likely a german sharp shooters rifle. They brought all their traditions with them. They still have sharpshooting competitions regularly.
Schutzenfest, hill country; texas
ruclips.net/video/5sB2QeCBKTQ/видео.html
James D. Julia inc.
About 12 mins away from my place. I steer clear tho.. Id b living in my truck by the time i was done!
For 13,200 rifles they paid 1.3 million in todays value roughly 38 million.
This is so rare its literally like finding a needle in a haystack! This is like the Simo Hayha of sniper rifles before the term was even coined
Put that price in the "inflation calculator" and it came out to almost $3000
Why do your fingers and hands always have small wounds on them?
From all the hand jamming and finger f**king these wonderful weapons. Gun Jesus sacrifices his hand modeling career for us. May we all be forever thankful.
I said that on a Skallagrim knife vid before: weapons need to taste your blood to bond to you. Or maybe those are Gun Jesus stigmata.
It's an M1 fetish.
'Cause them's man hands!
MY M70 ak peels the skin off my hands when I use it, it's called operating firearms.
At least one Whitworth rifle was carried by a Confederate sniper during the Knoxville Campaign. Hexagonal bullets have been found by metal detectorists in the area.
A bit late to the party, I know, but what is the 2nd rifle from the left on the shelf, behind Ian? The one that resembles a CAR-15, but with a different handguard.....
Made in my home city, by one of our greatest citizens, there's a Whitworth art gallery paid for by his estate.
This is from back when Manchester was the most modern city in the world, around the same time Marx and Engels were writing in the city.
Imagine hating the north so bad that you don't even use the same shape of ammunition
It was hate to free slaves
Awesome video Ian best in a while. I hope they pay you for making these videos and selling their guns for them. I didn't want an old rifle until I started watching you.
I love feats of engineering. It shows that even when you think everything has been done there is always something new. Hexagonal bullets? Who knew they would let an ancient weapon shoot as if it were a modern rifle.
What is more interesting is what could be done with it today or would we see no gains copying this style of gun with modern technology.
So if I have this right 52 bore would mean 52 round balls of bore diameter weighed 1lb? Therefore giving a projectile weight of about 135 grains. Quite a light rifle projectile for the time.
Sold for $161,000. You guys love Confederate gear.
The losing side usually has the rarer stuff
Found a few bullets in the monocacy river in frederick MD at the monocacy battlefield when they tried to fight toward D.C.
Well I learned something new about my families history! Thanks for sharing.
Whenever I bring up the idea of an FPS about the US Civil War and someone says it will be boring, I show them weapons like this.
It would be incredibly interesting to also know the APPROXIMATE value of these wonderful weapons, might that be possible in the future ? LOVE these cool guns, thank you ! L
Was General Sedgewick killed by a Whitworth?
r3rend I believe I read it was a modified Sharps carbine that killed him, barely after uttering the phrase "They couldn't hit an elephant from that distance"
It was most likely a Whitworth: Hexagonal bullets made a very recognizable whistling sound as they passed by, so the soldiers knew that wasnt an ordinary round, but a very accurate one, thats why they were kneeling and covering themselves at the moment Sedgewick appeared.
We don't know. Shot from other weapons was falling in the area. A Whitworth might have done it... but might as well have been a random bullet...
r3rend I'm guessing a sharps or a whitworth
r3rend I would say whitworth definitely even though some sharps are pretty accurate but whitworths were so rare
7.4 MOA at 1800 yards That is over 1 Mile.
The other famous story about the Whitworth is that Queen Victoria used one to pip the bull at the first ever meeting of the UK NRA.... 12 years before the US NRA started up. Admittedly, it was in a complicated bench vice and all she did was pull a bit of string......
If you want to buy an original they come up for auction in the UK a few times a year and aint cheap....but they dont have the Confederate Cool Tax on them so go for a lot less than US examples. The last one I bid on went for just over £3K
Cased examples command the premium prices here in the UK
Laird Cummings 4000-4500ish dollars
That would be an ecumenical matter
sub moa at 500 yds on black powder? Damn! i'm impressed.
Which Union general's famous last words were "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."
oh...and i always wondered, what kind of rifle that was, standing in the background in the last episodes.
and yay, it's a whitworth. my day was made. :)
Sounds like an assassin's rifle.
Highly likely it was utilized in that way; particularly against officers.
@@BSE1320 You don't know what assassination means, I see.
@@FIREBRAND38 as·sas·si·nate
/əˈsasnˌāt/
Learn to pronounce
verb
gerund or present participle: assassinating
murder (an important person) in a surprise attack for political or religious reasons.
This rifle would be a great modern build, using today's tools and tech!
Also using modern steel alloys to boost chamber pressure, top it off with hard plastic sabot rounds, with hardened cores. It would look real nice, all brand new!
This gun cost would have cost $3,215 in 2022 inflation
What happened to those rifles which were stopped at the blockade? Did the Union seize them or send them back?