Armchair-Warriors vs True Swordsmanship: Critical Analysis
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- Опубликовано: 4 янв 2024
- Join me as I explore the disparity between pop culture sword content and the authentic art of swordsmanship.
Discover how to discern knowledgeable presenters from those relying on pop culture references.
Learn to evaluate the validity of experiments and tests conducted by presenters. We also recommend high-quality swordsmanship channels for you to follow.
Understand the difference between pop culture and true swordsmanship.
#Swordsmanship #PopCultureSwords #CriticalThinking
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Развлечения
To clarify a few points.
This video is not intended to call out any creators specifically, it's meant to be a resource to my viewers. It's to help consume sword media with a more critical eye, and that includes my own content.
Secondly,
A number of people have brought up that they feel that full gear is restrictive, and limits or distorts test results.
First of all, when I say full gear I mean a puncture resistant jacket, and protection, and a mask. The rest of it is personal preference. I personally use hard shell elbow, knee, shin, and forearm protectors as well as an athletic cup. None of those things hinder my movement or mobility.
My reasoning for this is, any small amount of dexterity that I lose with my gear on is minuscule in comparison to compromises you run into when fencing with foam weapons or trying to use steel in such a way that you won't injure a person who's wearing no gear.
This isn't to say that low gear and no gear training is bad. It's very valuable! It allows you to get started sparring with less costs, it allows you to drill specific things, and a whole host of other reasons. But it inherently is a compromise. And when you're doing a test you want as few compromises as possible.
Thirdly,
Though I said this in the video some people seem to be missing it. It is totally okay to be into pop culture swords! And it's totally okay for people to make videos on them. In fact it's vital! It's a gateway into swordsmanship. Pop culture swordsmanship is how I got into swords when I was a kid. My issue is when people can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality. Or people say that they are experienced in swordsmanship, but really haven't trained or no longer train. This can give a warped perspective of the art of swordsmanship to the viewers.
I have an interest: battle reenactors/LARPers vs hema guys, so people who 'fight' every weekend, vs guys who have trained the art as we can reconstruct it. I am to old and slow right now, but I think that some of the guys I was fighting/practicing with, using steel blunts or hardened rubber swords, years back, could have interesting conversations about what works when stress hits and armour is ringing with impacts, vs what happens in theory, or in light kit.
Funny - i thought about that topic a few days ago and baaam today i see the video 😄👍 good content
You put people on blast in a video then have an oh shit reality moment and try to deflect. You're disingenuous at best but more likely just a sad person that instead of DMing another creator and saying hey let's do a collaboration and I can give pushback on your takes I'd rather troll you to my own audience and not have any crossover appeal into a larger one. That's cool if that is your thing but be honest as to why you're doing it.
I both agree and disagree on certain points. I think you dont need training to become good with it. Secondly yes its hard to say who does consistently practice and or how they practice. Thirdly I think all information is better than no information . 4th i agree be skeptical of everyone and to question things, thats progressive. But i think testing those anime stuff is good too because it stops the few people who think hey thats a good idea. It also sheds light on just how ineffective those things are. 5th and i think finally i think its also important to watch those who aren't trained to see how common/ average untrained people would use those weapons regardless if they do thing in a skewed point of view. Just chalk it up to people trying to develop their own style. Back when swords were really used im sure people learned from real experience the best. Anyone can tell people to do things one way, its when you try it for yourself that you see how it works or really doesn't. Especially if your trained or training from genuinely sword knowledgeable people. Not say anyone or anybody isn't just being generic. Sorry for rant but ya like your videos. I think your definitely miss understood in this video sadly. Anyways keep up being the awesome you!!!
For those bringing up shadiveristy, he has just issued a shrieking response video. It's an hour long and practically hysterical. I think Sellsword is onto something. Great vid by the way! Subbed and liked from me. Also super glad to see scholagladiatoria getting a bit of love, him and Skallgrim are great.
I guess one could say this video is about the Sword Art Online
this is great🤣🤣
@@matejroch8963 🤣🤣🤣 OMG, seriously, could this comment section be any more of a riot?! I mean, let's just take a moment to appreciate the sheer brilliance of what just happened here. "This video is about Sword Art Online." A seemingly innocuous statement, right? WRONG! It's the setup, the catalyst for a comedic explosion of epic proportions! Then, BAM! "This is great 😂😂😂" rolls in like a comedic wrecking ball, shattering any semblance of seriousness and leaving us gasping for air as we're propelled into the stratosphere of laughter!
I'm talking about tears streaming down your face, can't-catch-your-breath, side-splitting laughter that you just can't shake off! It's like being caught in a whirlwind of hilarity, where every chuckle, every giggle, every snort adds to the cacophony of comedy echoing through the digital corridors of RUclips!
And let's not forget the emojis! 😂😂😂 They're not just emojis; they're the cherry on top of this comedic masterpiece! They're the exclamation points at the end of a sentence that scream, "I am ROFLMAO-ing so hard right now that I might just burst into a cloud of laughter-induced confetti!" They're the universal language of hilarity, transcending barriers of age, culture, and language to unite us all in a chorus of uncontrollable laughter!
So, to whoever dropped that "This is great 😂😂😂" bombshell, I salute you! You, my friend, are a comedic genius, a maestro of mirth, a virtuoso of vivacity! You took a simple statement about Sword Art Online and turned it into a comedic masterpiece that will go down in the annals of internet history as one of the funniest moments ever witnessed by humanity!
In conclusion, I hereby declare this comment thread officially certified as a comedy goldmine of the highest order! And to everyone reading this, I implore you: Embrace the laughter, revel in the absurdity, and never underestimate the power of a well-placed emoji! 😂👏🎉
If a product is pu out for the purpose of entertainment and the swordplay is entertaining then shenanigans are permissible. Once a thing starts to boast of historical accuracy or even presenting itself as a documentary/ factual, then one should be more critical of what is being presented.
Fair point, I'm just not a fan of people trying to influence others on what or how to think. That first comment he made got to me.
@stonedragon30 i think, if you dont put up your guard based on the worst interpretation of one sentence from this video, (which should have been worded more carefully if my understanding of it is correct,) what you'll take away from it is that hes trying to tell people to be more discerning and skeptical of all sword videos, (including his own, he says that explicitly,) and that anime fantasy etc sword test videos are not analagous to historical swordsmanship.
Literally all educational content is influencing you on how to think
I give you tools to help you critically analyze all content, including mine.
@@SellswordArts By all accounts, all media one consumes influences how we think. The point I was trying to make was that someone making a video on using Demon Slayer sword techniques, there is a world of difference between them saying "These are real and SHOULD be used" compared to "This is obviously bollocks but lets have fun seeing what we can do".
I do enjoy your content and I will certainly continue to watch what you do.
All the best.
@antoniodittman5820 sorry, who again is saying that anime swords are historically accurate?
Dude, don't mock armchair warriors. The amount of core strength it takes to swing an armchair is insane. One guy I knew duel wielded a wingback and a swivel like it was nothing.
My buddy Tim fell in battle against a guy who wields a Herman miller, was a sad day.
@@Arcavi0us I think I've heard of that guy. We call him Herman Killer.
@@lakelandbuzz2252 he went out well o7
Best comment thread
@@Arcavi0us then he's in the great IKEA hall now. It's one step up above Valhalla.
It's worth pointing out that some people who wield swords in their videos might still reach very dubious conclusions. HEMA is wonderful for so many reasons but we've always had a problem with extremely insular clubs and some instructors seeming almost more like cult leaders.
After winning gold at Swordfish, I was told by someone that my fencing was invalid because I struck my opponent's legs using descending cuts, his point being that you must only ever strike the leg with an ascending cut as that allows you to cover your head. He seemed to miss that not once was I struck in the head while going for my opponent's legs. And that's not even mentioning all the manuscripts showing descending cuts to the legs.
This video is by no means saying that anybody and everybody through practices HAMA Is trustworthy, or even knowledgeable.
This is only intended to give viewers some ideas to help them with critical thinking when engaging with this content. I fully expect them to apply those same principles to my work, as well as other practitioners.
Nobody is above scrutiny 😁
Sorry I misread your comment before. From my limited experience, the way you do it (descending) is actually the better way. As your blade starts from a high place hitting a lower target, it is protecting most of your body from counter attack. Sounds like the people who criticized your fencing didn't understand distance and measure. Your head is usually a further away target than your arms and shoulders, thus wouldn't be a viable target assuming you launched your attack at the appropriate distance.
@@kissing88 Well said. Additionally, attacking the legs with descending cuts allows you to play around with your opponent's expectations. For example, if you establish a pattern where you ripost with cut 2 to your opponent's temple from the parry of high octave, you can then break it by executing the exact same cut up untill the very last moment where you then bring your blade lower, going under your opponent's parry.
If in a real scenario you would be alive and your opponent dead, then you won.
some people are dumb enough to think their own experiences is 'the only correct way' and generally you shouldnt take them too seriously.
Doing a "realistic" experiment to evaluate a technique is actually really quite complicated: even experiments done full speed in full gear aren't completely realistic because both parties usually know what's about to happen so the element of surprise is at least partly missing. On the other hand nailing a technique perfectly in sparring is harder and even if you manage, it might not LOOK as perfect as you'd wanted for demonstration purposes.
I'm surprised there aren't some of these youtubers testing techniques by going into sparring without the partner knowing what they're attempting. That seems like a way more empirical method.
@@matiasrostworowski5141 I think the problem is its often bad fencing to go in with a specific technique in mind. If you are hell-bent on doing it your opponent might not be doing the thing you want him to do to enable you to do it in the first place as no technique is one-size fits all. I find the worst thing you can do is going in with a plan. I tend to say let the swords tell you what to do. If you have the technique on muscle memory it might come out of no where when your opponent does what you need to do.
This said, it also does depend on the technique. I am thinking stuff that is more complex. A basic method of cutting, parrying, or strategy is easy enough to try and apply. You are right that sparring without a plan is a good stress-testing method. Its just that replicating an exact situation is difficult. If the technique works when muscle memory kicks in though, and the conditions are there, its a good technique for sure.
Suffice to say that drilling, testing, and sparring all have their place.
And I think the important thing he mentions is that the person makes an attempt to explain when something might be less accurate because of some factor. Honestly I even think people should mention how some techniques and strategies might greatly differ if you were using live edges and could actually get cut. Like there's always going to be limits to how we can train and test things but the attempt to be accurate, the dedication to training and practice, and the transparency about possible exceptions is what would be good here.
I try things I see in fantasy all the time. In Sword fighting its alot of fun I got into Sword fighting because of fantasy
Make sure you consider safety when doing so pls. Fantasy has fun flashy ideas some of which are dangerous stunts that are one mistake from your own weapon harming you. Make sure you're aware of what fantasy goofery is safe and what isn't.
@@kenjincapers we only use training weapons I've never hit myself but it would be no worse then my opponent hitting me
@@fr00t_tea89 great then carry on ! I've seen a fair number of novices train with live weapons then go out and do stupid stuff they've seen from anime with live weapons. That can end really badly so I got concerned for a second there.
I'm catching up on this Shadiversity drama in reverse basically, and I'm honestly shocked. Based on the initial reaction video that Shad put out to this one, I figured that David *for sure* must have called him out by name at some point. Instead, Shad basically self-identified himself as one of these "armchair warriors" and just went on the full warpath.
He literally admitted he was never specifically called out but “knew” he was being called out. Shad does this all the time. This isn’t a new behavior, this didn’t come out of no where. He has a victim complex and anything that remotely calls him out sets him off. He then lies, takes clips out of context, name calls, and manipulates his audience. He has literally been doing it for years. Most of his melt downs happened on Twitter but since he got his second channel, he has been recording them on that channel.
Which, Shad is an armchair warrior. He acts like what he says is factual information. I never really watched him cause, castles were not my thing and he mostly did castle videos. My partner watched him. But, I saw a video he put out, literally defending boob armor and how women warriors, especially ones with large chests, needed boob armor. And he brought up the old codpiece as “proof” that this was true. Which, men did not wear those into battle. And he said all of this while ignoring all other aspects that goes into wearing armor. Not to mention, women, especially those with larger chests like myself, bind chests. It HURTS just to go for a light jog not to wear a sports bra.
I knew he was full of crap from that moment. Anyone who defends boob armor as a real thing women need to have on armor in order to wear it loses all credibility.
@@AsaFrog-bx7xy Once again someone who did not do their research. First, he never defended boob armor. He evaluated and explained why it could work but he also explained why they did not make it. second men did wear those cod pieces into battle quiet often. that's why they made them.3rd woman did not bind their breast in the medieval has a rule sense that is generally done to make one's chest seem smaller which that cultural style is much more modern. they would more likely have worn clothing to emphasize their assets. Second a woman in armor would be wearing a padded garb under their armor just like the men and proper fitted armor would not require the very uncomfortable and unhealth need of wrapping one's chest. And has a reenactor and history buff which I went to collage for I can say that shad is far more reliable on most these subjects then a guy who equates fencing to understanding medieval combat or thinks doing test in armor is inaccurate sense you move differently when most people would have been using armor to while wield these weapons.
Streisand Effect: Try to get ahead of a perceived problem, draw more attention to it as a consequence.
@@truetheternal2314You obviously don't watch a lot of Shadiversity videos
You know he's made 12 videos about boob armour, right?
@@theevol29 seen most his videos and a lot of other creators and actually hang out with people who make weapons and armor and do a bit of forging myself. My point still stands. you have provided no counter argument or addressed pacific points. If you wish to call it to question my stance, try doing it with logic and points of interest and positioning not have you even seen arguments. I will be happy to lay out my views and positions and why on any points of contention you may have. I am aware he's made several videos on the nature of boob armor and has discussed if it is reasonable, how effective would it be and why they did not make it. Has well as other points and opinions on the matter. I don't agree with all of them, but he does do a reasonably sound analyst and break down.
lol, why did people feel attacked by this video?
Not made definitive good or bad statements, not singled out someone directly and most important of all: actually acknowledged that this other "sword-content" has its place as well.
I dont get why people are insecure about this.
No kidding! He went above and beyond to make clear a bunch of caveats, like he wasn’t attacking anyone, or speaking about any particular creator or channel. One would have to deliberately misunderstand the video, ignoring many explicit statements, to feel attacked or offended. It’s just very poor form.
Seems like he’s gate keeping
The main issue with realism in movies and games is mainly hema and msot real world martial arts are based arround quick unpredictable attacks but one of the principles of animation is anticipation and when it comes to games anticipation is important for gameplay. Also without anticipation its hard to make it look liek thers a lot of force behind an attack. Addionally modern animation techniques are mostoy based around poses and most animators find aniamtions look better when these poses are exaggerated. Im not an animator at best id call myself an ameture but these are based off the 12 principles of animation that animators widely find people likeand while there based off 2d aniamtion most of it is used for 3d animation. It would seem realistic swordsman ship and the principles of good aniamtion conflict although i would be interested to hear how they may not conflict.
Hellish quart is an example of this
Hellish Quart is great, but it succeeds because it’s in a specific niche - that of the 3D fighting game, like Tekken or SoulCalibur: side-on fixed camera angle (so neither character is obscured), with players expecting tight mechanics and a high skill ceiling. Most other types of game have to concede that loss of visual detail or stylistic deviation or gameplay constraints or genre expectations get in the way - the only real exception I can think of is Sloclap’s games like Absolver and Sifu, which take the above fighting game mindset and apply it to over-the-shoulder martial arts beat-‘em-up action (and even then, the art style and single player nature are really important, as well as most of the gameplay being unarmed).
Obligatory mention time - Kingdom Come: Deliverance is also said to be pretty accurate for its form, which isn’t either of the above. Now, as far as I know [and have observed], the attention to historical detail within KC:D is virtually unquestionable, but I haven’t seen or experienced nearly enough gameplay to form an opinion on its depictions of fencing / combat. I just think the dedication to the first-person camera is weird for the goal, even considering that Hellish Quart allows something similar - the level of input fidelity seems to me a greater problem from first-person unless you’re playing in VR.
And even in saying all this, Hellish Quart does have its own suite of concessions to form that it must make. You can’t have all the longsword or rapier grapples at the arm or disarms or pommel strikes, and the fokos / ciupaga axe is limited in much the same way, because if you included everything then your skill *floor* would be unapproachable and your learning curve a literal cliff. This isn’t just me saying it - I know of a HEMA instructor who was interviewed and said as much.
ruclips.net/video/JyCLFzlTou0/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/PkPusaw99p8/видео.html
But don’t get me wrong - it’s a great game, even a *hell* of a game. It’s just true to itself and hard to replicate the success of.
I’m hoping we get that “Full-Dive” VR before I’m too old, personally. For now, I’ll keep fencing the HEMA way!
Also, it's important to take even generally trustworthy points of view with a grain of salt and if there's any doubt, look into sources/try things yourself.
I've seen people commenting here who seem to think that the icepick/reverse grip is wrong with any weapon despite dagger having plenty of sources that use it in that way.
Or with an icepick. If you have an icepick, the icepick grip and just stabbing downwards into someone's neck are great tactics.
I think some of the disconnect is that not all use case scenarios for weapon use was 1 on 1 symmetrical duels. Reverse grip can be useful for concealment, mobility,etc. and you can definitely kill someone holding a dagger like an ice pick. That’s different than whether or not it’s an optimal technique for fencing.
@@Newnodrogbobnah the main and only reason to be honest is stabby stabby. Or clawing which is basically the same as stabbing and pulling.
I think one thing people need to talk about more is situation and situational advantages. Like reverse grip with a knife actually does suck just as much as with a sword... unless you are in grappling range, in which it has some advantages. But swords don't have those same advantages at grappling range.
Then there's stuff like the nunchucks convo. I still remember when Shad made that one video about nunchucks but got so hung up on them being compared to full staves or sticks for striking and in the context of some sort of consenual battle. When in reality, the benefits of nunchucks are conceilability/portability and grappling advantages. Like they just aren't going to compare to a sword or even an escrima in many situations but those can't be folded up and tucked in a pocket or pinched around a limb to a strong one handed grip with leverage.
I can see where you are coming from with this. I am not a sword guy, but I know combat sports. Specifically, I know Muay Thai and how the mystical aspects of martial arts have skewed peoples' concept of what works.. People act like some of these quick strikes are going to "stun and disorient the opponent", but if you were hit by this in a real fight, you'd probably just muscle through it.. It is like saying you can eye poke your way out of rear naked choke, without realizing they could choke you out before the eye poke makes them release it. People are too comfortable in controlled settings, and it makes them content with less than useful techniques.
As a karate blackbelt (JKA) [i agree] my best attack is literally poking your eyes in
@@jasoncp3257 Lol yeah, you can be honorable or you can win.
Lol you can see how invalid this guy's arguments about anything fighting if you just see how terrible sellsword arts guy throws his front kick.
@@y_magaming9798 Swordfighting/armed fighting in general is drastically different to unarmed fighting. Just because he doesn't train in MMA stuff doesn't mean he doesn't know how to fight with a sword. If you are kicking someone in a swordfight you are too close and fucked up or are intentionally getting into grappling range.
This is why I've started recording my bouts and uploading them. Mostly for shits, and to review my technique, but also, there should be more available footage of the "real" thing for people to see.
The main problem with Shad M. Brooks suffers from (aside from everything else) is the fact that he, at least to a extent, suffers from the Dunning-Kruger effect. While he does display some competent knowledge in history and ancient warfare, he's by no means an expert in his field nor is he as skilled a swordsman, an artist or a writer as he like to think he is. He seems like the type of guy who think he can compete in the Grand National just he won 1st place at the Donkey Derby.
Regarding your point about full gear and also your clarification: Full gear can not only distort test results by being restrictive. It changes your mindset regarding risk and threat and might allow you to move faster and riskier then you might without. This can change how certain techniques may play out. Not that this is always the case but it can be and depends much on the context. If we think e.g. about Meyer: The fencing described by him is (most likely) for a more or less sportive context. So they are fighting without protective gear and without the intent to seriously hurt eachother. If you fought without gear like you would in a HEMA tournament today, someone would get hurt seriously very quickly.
Yep, one in particular I found I the more complicated hand protection I wore made me sloppy in my parries and protecting my hands. Also I think maybe some people fight in HEMA that really should be in buhurt 😂
@@gunblade7610 Some people fight in both and have hard time adjusting.
The thing about what your saying is that those restrictions do not take away from the validity of the test but rather enforce it, as historically it would be signifigantly more common to enter a sword fight in protective gear wether in sport combat or actual combat.
@@antoniodittman5820 im not sure if i get your point. The kind of swordsmanship that is talked about mostly on this channel is so called "bloßfechten" so unarmored swordsmanship. And as far as I know none of the relevant sources mention any kind of protective gear for practicing that kind of swordsmanship.
@Vatoeter is it? Every video ive seen on here everyone doing any sort of training or demonstration with a partner is wearing protective gear
Are we trying to reproduce a historical swordfight, trying to choreograph a fun to watch fight, or trying to test and improve our personal swordsmanship?
I do most of my training without armor, and have seen enough "accidents" with bokken to be rather reluctant to do "live training" with blunted steel of the right weight, even in "real armor".
P.S. One of the goals of my personal swordsmanship is to combine as many different forms of swordsmanship as I can, and figure out which techniques are functional with which blade types. (It's going OK, there's a LOT more schools of swordsmanship than I thought back when I had the silly idea - but I have been able to "cross-pollinate" a surprising number of techniques to a surprising number of different sword types.)
“A lot more schools of swordsmanship than you thought”???? Dawg what did you think 😭 every single country in the entire world has had some form of swords and every country in the world has had their own way of fighting with them. I really recommend middle eastern swordfighting but with a straight sword, it works pretty well (not surprising really because they only had straight swords until they met the turks)
u should make some videos on this it sounds really cool
@@OrstedCultist I'm widely versed, not well versed, good for fun demonstrations, not instruction. I wouldn't want people to pick up my terrible habits when they are trying to learn real swordsmanship.
Learn from real sources, not some random dude's random collection of techniques - build a solid foundation, and THEN play with your fantasy sand-castle.
P.S. These guys would stomp me, they practice harder, more frequently AND with more focus. (I just think it would be fun to throw everything I've learned at a genuinely skilled swordsman, and find out if I'm an "armchair swordsman" or just eclectic.)
I think your point is roughly analogous to the discussions people have of MMA vs things like judo. Obviously the modern form that trains in the best parts of many forms is going to be more effective. I think what the video is specifically addressing is people making claims that "they probably did it like this" or "this would have worked back then" ignore that fact that it wouldnt have worked back then because there is no example of it having done so. It muddies the water of "how did this very specific thing work?" I just think he should have been more explicit in that wording, which also seems to be the problem hes trying to address with other creators. which just proves that communication is difficult when you are putting out tons of content on short production schedules.
@@antoniodittman5820 Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. (A lot of what gets discovered would have been so painfully obvious to someone using that kit in battle that no one thought it could possibly need recorded.)
There's also a big difference between what is taught, and what is done on a battlefield. One gets recorded in manuals, the other gets passed quietly up and down the line since "the brass won't approve". (a mail skirt may stop a sword stab or slash, but it won't protect your balls from toes coming up from underneath - wear your codpiece lad.)
Another thing to check for is to see if the technique the back-yard swordsman "discovered" or "invented" exists in another sword style. (Explaining the fabulous long range lunge technique I "invented" for kendo to an epee fencer only to hear "yea, umm....we call that "flechette", let me show you how to get another 12 inches reach on that.")
Just because it's not in the record doesn't always mean it wasn't done, likewise, just because it works (and would have worked) doesn't always mean it was done.
P.S. The silly beef is just a backyard swordsman not quite getting that the topic wasn't his videos, it was the difference between a primary source and a secondary source.
Shoutout to channels: Federico Malagutti's channel (of the same name as him) and The Exiles. If one's interested in Fiore, they are great channels.
I "train" with a lightsaber, i go outside when I have time and spend half an hour to an hour just kinda practising spins and cool moves, i would never say I know how to properly sword fight, I don't know how to truly attack or defend all I really know is how to look cool lol
This absolutely nothing wrong with that. Honestly, getting out and moving is the best thing you can do.
Before I got into fencing, that's what I did. Played with sticks and toy swords. Because I was active when I started fencing I had a better understanding of my own kinesthetic awareness that allowed me to pick it up faster.
Whatever gets you into swords is great. Usually it's not going to be hardcore swordsmanship it's going to be fantasy. And that's perfectly fine. I started doing swords and swordsmanship because of Star Wars.
@@SellswordArts same
I got into HEMA because "it'd be cool to own a lightsaber but even cooler to actually know how to use it!" and oh boy how naive I was... Now I handle both longsword and lightsabers and I actually know how to swordfight and I really miss the crossguard on lightsabers when I combat with them hahahaha
@@sapo-san8054to solve no crossguard on lightsabers I just made my own crossgaurd attachment and use that on my lightsabers
Reminds me of the guy from the Royal Armories Museum who would review firearms from video games. It all looks cool, and some of it is even based on the real deal, but almost all of it is parody for entertainment value only. Swords and the use of swords in media is just the same, only it’s harder to see it because they aren’t as prevalent as firearms are.
Depends on the age of the firearm. They are pretty terrible with early firearms.
there's one of those videos recommended to me right next to your comment lol the isonzo one from a year ago
Are you talking about Jonathan Ferguson? Those videos are a lot of fun.
@@Swedishmafia101MemeCorporation sounds like the gentleman. It’s been a year or so since I’ve seen one of those videos.
First thing HEMA taught me was how little I *actually* knew about swords
I agree! A lot of starting HEMA is 'unlearning' the misconceptions
if you’re studying an art, that’s a few hundred years old you are intentionally avoiding modern combat arts. that makes you the opposite of a warrior. Maybe you shouldn’t criticize others.
@@jay-by1se such an insecure reply. you think HEMA people aren't also into modern weapons and martial arts? we're *violence nerds*
@@jay-by1se HEMA people do not actually believe they're real warriors. They're not trying to be warriors. No one on earth can be seriously considered a warrior without having received some kind of modern military training, and arguably, actually fighting in the front lines of a war. HEMA is a sport based on historical combat techniques, and HEMA people aren't pretending otherwise. They aren't even training for medieval warfare, its basically all dueling.
I've been curious about this for awhile. What is your opinion on the swordfighting in the movie The Mask of Zorro. Some of it is clearly just for show like one scene where Zorro is fighting 2 opponents, one with each hand, but some of the swordplay seem very realistic.
It's classic 50's sabre fencing, which is fine, as that's when the first Zorro movies came out. But not really applicable for the characters or weapons they are using.
Don Rafael carries a classic Cup hilt Rapier, and is Spanish nobility. He should be fighting using more Destresza style. De La Vega as Zorro carries a small Sword/Spadroon, so should be using a more point orientated style. Captain Love with his Cavalry Sabre, stylistically fits with the style.
But it's a movie, and thrust centric fencing isn't as dynamic or exciting as swashbucking sabre styles, so that's what they use.
I love leg and kidney shots when fighting in buhurt (armored combat)
seriouisly? this is it? that´s what got shad so mad? this completely inoffensive video expressing a (true)problem in the online swordsmanship community? talk about a self report.
Bit of an exaggeration to say he was mad. Shad made it clear his specific grievances such as sellswords hypocrisy and how this videos specifically went after content creators like him. In shads response video they do plenty of agreeing with points made in the video id say if you actually compare sellswords own reactions to criticism vs shads reaction you'll see shads was overall quite fair and level headed even going so far as to recommend sellswords channel and much of his content.
I play fantasy video games, but I fully get that fantasy isn't reality. I absolutely LOVE fantasy movies that are set in medieval times, yet I don't find the sword fighting in them as enjoyable as actual realistic swordsmanship. When I saw you guys do your "A History of Violence" it was the coolest martial arts I have ever seen. I personally do hand to hand martial arts, but any martial artist knows that if you fight like your favorite fantasy character, your chances are heightened that you will get hurt. I have gotten so REALLY dumb injuries from sparring, even when I was using pretty good form, and they were often my fault rather than my opponent's. I cannot count the amount of times that I have had to tell new students to point their toes while doing a roundhouse kick so that they do not jamb anything. My point is, do not trust Hollywood to teach you how to be the next master. It's fantasy and nothing more. Keep up the great work David!
I've seen some of the video angrily responding to this one and after seeing this and then readiong the transcript to make sure I didn't miss 15 minutes of a 9 minute vid, I can't help but suspect someone voluntarily identified with a statement that did not specify them.
Last year I made a comment about how modern f@sc!sts will be remembered exactly as the old guys were, and that they don't HAVE to be garbage, they can stop, they can change. I got one angry reply demanding to know why I was calling him garbage, and I pointed out that all I did was call out f@sc!sts and he, specifically he, got offended.
Can we take a moment and give a round of applause for Sellsword's medieval drip - stylish my dude.
Fencing is hard. I've known lots of people try it and then realise it's hard work and really easy to get hit but I do love the how the hell do you that moments in sparring
Question unrelated to the subject. What is that beautiful saber you are holding?
It's the Ensifer Black 😁
Much appreciated@@SellswordArts!
5:32 im trying to figure out who you are talking about. Cuz at least in my opinion everyone who is well known in the sword community does this. I think thats why shad made his response video. All the big channels do the same which is why they are doing so well. I can see you pointing to master ken or some other satirical character who fakes everything and takes it as fact.
Myself, was a small 10k youtuber who reacted to anime but occasionally got really indepth about sword fighting cuz alot of the stuff you see jus cant happen. Ive only ever sparred with steel once. By your metric i shouldnt talk about something in Passionate about? I have experience, its jus not standard experience and its not recorded sadly. But who are you talking about? Shad's initial point is that due to the muddy water effect here he feels like you are pointing at him. I completely understand why. Maybe you dont want to point fingers and thats where the miscommunication was and you truly didnt mean to talk about shad directly. But cuz there are no examples here you could be talking about anyone. Everyone goes through the same foam experiments cuz its safer, spars with steel if it can be done safely, takes thier pot shots at fantasy cuz writers and animators are the real armchair warriors who dont understand mechanics and sword arts.
I can see where shad is coming from. I can see your point that certain things should be taken with a grain of salt and i appreciate you saying to even put yourself on that standard, and most people are so wheres the issue?
ruclips.net/video/xoqn_Gwfm2c/видео.html
If you have no experience in a topic, you can not speak as an authority on that topic.
If you have some experience, you should only speak as an authority to the experience you have.
Just a note on the reverse grip in HEMA. Variations of it do exist.
Giuseppe Cerri includes a reverse grip thrust in his bastone system.
ruclips.net/video/FZe0NUUCvJw/видео.htmlsi=pGdBp-PcpcmvSSNG
Albrecht Durer's fechtbuch (likely Augsburg tradtion which overlaps with, but is separate from Lichtenauer) illustrates it. Have a look at 2:30 ruclips.net/video/eDP2maXCzt4/видео.htmlsi=guY0lwj_gIT7U8SW
Also spins and jumping attacks, they do exist, for big weapons such as the spadone, spada dui mani and bastone. These are covered in the Bolognese sources and in Cerri.
That's interesting, but the way it's done in media is always painful to watch. There are very rare moments where it makes actual sense.
Having started Cerri’s bastone more than a year ago, the reverse thrust is cool but it’s also specific to staff weapons. Being able to slide the hands along the haft is important for a lot of setups, including the ‘false’ parries with hands apart and techniques available from those positions (like the thrust in question). Mechanically if you were to spar with bastone, using light enough simulators, Cerri doesn’t like thrusts in friendly bouts at all and the only times anyone’s imitated the reverse thrust at me it was basically a pommel strike instead. Which is arguably what the reverse thrust kinda is: a conversion of techniques like the pommel strike because of changing weapons and changing fencing systems (a general removal of grappling at the arm etc.) that allows for the staff-specific reverse thrust molinello into a head blow.
It’s cool to have, but it doesn’t apply to the swords that David here is familiar with.
Also, yes, spins of course exist with sufficiently large weapons, but there are specific reasons as to the context. One you may have seen is greatsword vs pike, as the wonderful team at Virtual Fechtschule including channel host Oskar have shown [ see here ruclips.net/video/f85DMBtNvxQ/видео.html ] but there is also the chief context of Cerri’s molinelli (gymnastic benefits and development of familiarity aside): multiple opponents. Multiple opponents changes the core premise entirely. One treatise that addresses greatsword as well as two swords includes spins in both - Godinho’s montante and dual swords are presented in several of the same contexts, making a full rotation of the body (a spin) not just helpful but categorically necessary to the scenario.
Sparring games with multiple opponents also have to become scenario-based to really stand up to scrutiny, which is something I may suggest more directly to David later. What I mean there is that a greatsword in the hands of a bodyguard isn’t going to do much killing, because the job is to keep someone else alive and get the assailants to give up or back off just enough for your own backup to arrive. This means the montanteiro (or other greatsword-wielder) in a sparring game should have other win conditions than typical HEMA scoring, like surviving for 20 seconds or traversing across the sparring area to a marked-off goal (as if a gateway) or preventing the others from stealing objects strewn in a line along the floor for 60 seconds.
In that kind of scenario, you can bet spinning will come up. It’s just not the same as solo fencing, especially not matched weapons in a 1v1.
@@nosrin1988 funny, I was just watching a sci-fi show last night and I think it was the first or second time that I saw reverse grip and it made sense to do it. The scene went like this:
Much, much more nimble and angry antagonist flanks and gets too close to inside line of protagonist while protag's right arm is otherwise pre-occupied.
Protag pulls out blade on the left with reverse grip to parry the cut to the left abdomen. No offense from the reverse gripped sword after. They just break measure. Essentially, it was done as a desperate attempt to defend oneself when there are no other options. The time gained is then used to reposition rather than fight in reverse grip.
@@jonharker9028 I actually did do bastone and spadone some time ago and I agree with what you said which is why I included "variations" in my wording. I am aware that they look different compared to 1 handed reverse grips being done with longswords or arming swords.
see, I can see rare niche moments where it might be necessary,
but the full on fighting like that in the SW movies was pure pain.
also knife fighting actually has quite a bit of reverse grip scenarios.
it seems the long the blade the less often you'd do it.
the only other time I'd see it is just posing for a photo and trying to look cool.
@@justanothercomment4701
Haven't watched the full video yet, but as a game dev, yup. Even the most realistic (be it in style, fidelity, or what have you) video game isn't going to be able to (or want to) portray actual swordfighting. While a game may take a ton of reference from actual swordfighting, so much gets changed to make it fun and readable for someone who isn't actually a sword fighter (or whatever).
And that's kind of the thing - a video game isn't trying to simulate the thing, it's trying to give the player the experience of doing that thing - and often times, the experience of what the player THINKS doing that thing is like eg. the fantasy of X/of being an expert X. And some of the times, that fantasy is itself based off other media.
But otherwise, it's just asking the player to actually be an expert in things that take YEARS to master be it fighting, climbing, etc. which most don't want because it's time consuming and there isn't the control options available.
It's why VR games have to thread a careful needle in this regard - while yes, VR could re-create very real swordfighting... well, again, most people can't actually swordfight.
Edit: Adding paragraph breaks for clarity
Correct. VR can only get close because the tactile sensitivity in fencing and swordsmanship is too complex to be replicated easily
@@josiasarcadiaVery good add-on - the tactileness of combat can't be replicated. And if it could, well... at that point, if someone wanted the tactileness, the physicality, the accuraay, etc., it's probably easier just to find a local sword fighting school and do that.
@@PhotonBeast yep
As for VR, I'd like to say that it looses on footwork a lot.
Like, a lot of sword fighting is about moving and positioning your body, not about hand movements(Nintendo WII Sports cometh to mind for some reason)
neither does HEMA...
This is why I love Tod’s workshop he brings in an archer to perform his experiments. He brakes down the experiment peace by peace.
I appreciate this video because I am an amature swordsman that also writes fantasy novels. I try to reflect true swordsmanship in my novels and this has been tough to do at times.
I hear ya on Hollywood part. By my name I also have a foot in gun culture as well as sword (also in unarmed martial arts) and I essentially other than fighter jets or tanks or vehicle fighting whwre i have no training I cannot watch ANY fight scenes or have to just turn my mind off. The second part though about needing to do it with steel... yes and no in a sense that one thing the gun culture has issues with are something called "Fudds" it comes from Elmer Fudd who only used a shotgun. So these were thr people in gun culture who only saw hunting as legitimate and thought the rest is not necessary or the average person. This spread the definition to Fudds who were "Military and Police" so only people who served in some capacity can and ought to use guns. Sparing you all my 2nd Amendment rants here, basically it was a form of Elitism that came up thst ultimately destroys and divides. I would just caution we don't turn into HEMA Fudds. In the gun culture side , we get ALOT of people interested because of video games. Great! Now let me show you how to safely use these tools and feel free to experiment and to press against common knowledge just as long as you are safe. I hope to avoid in the sword community what I see there. To some extent I've seen thr division between HEMA and SCA which is sad as my HEMA group trains with and cross pollinate with the SCA group. Let's be honest we're in HEMA because we wanted to be a sword fighter, we just happened to focus on the fighting part. It got to the point where I saw some of thst HEMA elitism happen amongst some of my students - though I squash it as much as I can when I see it pop up (for one thing, I essentially teach dueling - SCA will teach fighting in formation and groups, and sieges, and etc.). Imo, any division or elitism takes away from the joy of the martial art and really gives powers to hoplonphobes - those who do not like weapons altogether and don't see it as a beautiful art form. THAT is where we need to focus our derision and welcome ANYONE excited about the art as long as they are being safe. Because trust me, today they're attacking gun culture, but we only need to see the UK and all the silliness poor Matt Easten needs to deal with there to know that blades are next.
Well said.
Only thing worse than a fudd is the dreaded neofudd... see overtonwindex... typical civilian shitstain type who thinks you just suck, that red dots on pistols are superior, etc... the type to add yet another "durability test" for glocks... guy just makes these "hot takes" in order to generate comment traffic while being as insulting as possible. Dude only wears torn up mechanix gloves in order to sell some form of authenticity while he rips off the canadian tool reviewer AVE.
Well said, though you are wrong at the end. They already went after the blades. In fact, they confiscated SPOONS.
This is not a channel I regularly watch, and was directed to this video by a channel i do watch having a defensive reaction to it. Bringing all of that bias into watching this I find the comment section here to be the biggest issue.
If you are replying to this video saying he is attacking other creators you either did not watch it, or have allowed your defensiveness and bias to deafen you to the countless times in this video that he offered caveats to everything he was saying.
I will admit I think the statements that people who do not currently paractice can't talk about the realities of the sport come off as very dismissive and i do not think you need to be an expert and I also think that being retired from a sport does not invalidate your experience in it. But I think this is honestly just a case of poor communication. When taken in context I think its likely that he is referring to specifically videos talking about historically accurate swordsmanship, as he is constantly using past tenses and referring to organized fencing. A video about how a double sword would work, is obviously irrelevant to the topic of how historically these things worked because people didnt use them. Maybe i am wrong, but that seems to be the most obvious point of reference to me. And while i do think it is on the creator to be more explicit in their wording when discussing this I also think its on the view when triggered by something to hear the person out and question wether there is something they missed. Communication is imperfect and when you are making several videos a day there are bound to be communication errors. If you want to engage with online content you need to learn to accept this and develop the maturity to cut people a bit of slack and not immediately assume the worst interpretation of their words.
Just my two cents, obviously.
If you have no experience in a topic, you can not speak as an authority on that topic.
If you have some experience, you should only speak as an authority to the experience you have.
I never said someone who's retired from the sport can't talk about it. I just said if you don't do it at all, you can't have useful opinions.
There are plenty of people who no longer can fence who are wealths of information, just like retired athletes become great coaches.
@SellswordArts haha my wording also may have been a little sloppy here. I wasn't trying to insinuate that was your intended meaning, just that it could be taken that way. My overall point was simply that we are all human, and maybe phrase things in not the clearest way from time to time. And anyone watching your video and taking the worst possible interpretation of what you're saying is either doing so intentionally or coming to this video already defensive, and they should try listening to it again without the baggage.
People seem to forget that the current state of HEMA is in constant need of historical validation. The only difference now and a few years ago is blind leading the blind not happening as much
What are you talking about? The Hema community is full of discussions about history, and we have real historians in there who are actually doing this research.
Are you part of the community? Or just yelling about it from the outside?
@@SellswordArts I'm in for the long haul, and from what I can only gather, there is still more to explore
@@stroodlepup Ah, I think "historical validation" isn't the phrase I would use but I think you know what you mean. I would instead say that our knowledge is evolving and in some periods, a lot still is missing (gladiatorial combat, Early medieval combat before I 33, Antiquity, Polish saber etc etc.) Historical validation makes it sound like the history that is done is flawed across the board.
4:00 this is the part that shad seems to ignore
I hope you don't feel too bad. I started in fantasy and over time it made me seek out martial arts of all methods and each and everyone of them have been fun and I've learned something. But it is true that if you are trying to produce content it does need to be modified in terms of popularity. A lot of people just aren't into the technical aspect of these arts whether it's weapon based or empty hand. Strategy and tactics can be boring to most myself included sometimes. Anyway, thank you and your team for all that you do!
Shad, Jensen and Skall are occasionally worthwhile too
i'm a big fan of skall, i really don't like shad though.
Shad has some awful takes. I dont watch him anymore due to lack of fundamental knowlege
Shad... not so much. I would really reccomend Robinswords tho, he's very knowledgeable and just fun to watch.
@@xx4444xxDOTexe he doesn't fence, and as a someone who has been at one point a fencing instructor......i just can't take him seriously.
Skall is very solid, and is honest about his knowledge base.
Shad, just no. He doesn't know what he's talking about, and the easiest way to tell is his foot work. He almost always makes basic mistakes, turns his foot in, things like that, and doesn't want to learn more, as in study manuals or train, as then he might show he doesn't know anything past the basics.
What's the music in the background?
Also nice video as always
These same things can be said about firearms, BJJ, boxing, or any other martial art! Well Said Sir!
I think one of the issues with historical swordsmanship is that swords were generally less effective throughout history than other weapons, and were nowhere near as common as slings, spears and bows. Many of the truly historical fighting channels I've seen on RUclips in particular go over swords heavily, but they're not the main focus because swords weren't the main focus in history. Not to say they're aren't exceptions and there's definitely very good historical sword heavy channels out there but swords were definitely a small part of history. And many historical channels focus on a much broader range of topics than just swords.
So there have been a lot of allegations that swords are a lot less important than we think they are, however they existed in every culture.
The waters around the importance of swords have been made murky by half truths and myths. A good sword could be expensive, but a decent sword wasn't out of reach for a normal person. Swords occupy an interesting space.
Actual warfare were two armies met wasn't the most common form of fighting done back in the day. It's one very specific type of combat. There were plenty of other forms of combat. Ritualized violence like duels, civilian defense situations, and smaller scale combat that wasn't too giant armies meeting.
In a lot of these situations the sword was absolutely used. But even in battlefield situations, the sword was an important part of a soldier's equipment. It was the sidearm. Sure you have a spear or something else for when you're in formation, but many professional soldiers were trained on how to use the sword. Two of the most notable examples being Fiore and lichtenauer.
Swords are their own thing, and while there are crossovers between them and other weapons, they require a lot of practice.
Having a channel that's dedicated to the general understanding of historical medieval weapons is totally valid and cool! But so is the channel dedicated to the understanding of swords and swordsmanship.
@@SellswordArts true, it's just a niche subset of a niche subject, so the total number of people covering historical swordsmanship specifically on RUclips is going to be somewhat small, especially compared to how easy it is to make junk videos with no good information focusing on rule of cool and showmanship over efficacy of skill and talent
Also worth noting that swords are generally safer to practice with than top heavy polearms, axes or maces
HEMA is a complex topic. It was started by historians who wanted to faithfully recreate historical sources. These "older" generations are now complaining that modern HEMA ist too much sparring and too little working with sources. They might criticize you as much as you criticize other people.
I feel like most "experiments" are done for fun, and the creators do not pretend to be perfect scientists. They deliver proofs of concept, not perfect answers. It isn't their fault if their audience is not critical. Some of these "armchair historians" do not even focus on modern fencing, but fantasy or armoured fencing, which you do not represent.
I got into HEMA because I watched Matt Easton, Skallagrim, and Shadyversity talking about weapons. I wasn't looking to be an athlete. Now I go to tournaments.
also where did u get the rapier (3rd sword on the rack from the left)?
Definitely agree that if you're going to make commentary/criticism towards sword combat/techniques then you should at least have some study or practice related to sword combat. Like you said either historian or practitioner.
My only issue with critiques like this video is that I find them trying to toe the line between being open minded and being dismissive.
I don't think you're doing this intentionally, if anything it might be a lack of perspective. Because as annoying as it can be that pop culture doesn't perfectly replicate historical techniques, you're ignoring all the times anime and video games actually DO replicate or are inspired by actual techniques.
Demon slayer is a great example of countless little details all pulled from actual historical techniques. I think since you typically study western swordplay you just have trouble recognizing eastern inspirations.
Also I fully disagree with NEEDING to be be fully geared up in order for any experiments to be valid. It doesn't even make sense within a historical context.
Not every technique is meant to be done in full armor. Usually you have separate techniques for armored and unarmored combat.
I finally started making videos for this very topic, first one was on spin attacks, next will be about a novel interpretation of the reverse grip
Like I said in the video, there's nothing wrong with anime, fantasy, and other sword pop culture stuff. And while most of it is unrealistic, sometimes it get stuff right and that's great.
As for the experiment comment. I think it is 100% necessary if you're testing the effectiveness of a technique on a non-compliant opponent for you to be geared up. Otherwise your inherently going to compromise the technique for fear of injuring your opponent.
If you're performing a technique where there is no other person involved, that can also be an interesting experiment, but you're missing a critical element, and that is an opponent.
There is definitely a place for low gear or no gear drilling and sparring within swordsmanship. It allows you to work on specific techniques, to get into sparring with less money, and a whole host of other things. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely do low gear sparring. But I don't go and perform experiments or tests to try and determine the effectiveness of a technique or tool with low or no gear, because like I said before, it's inherently compromised
@@SellswordArts okay but wouldn't performing a technique intended to be used unarmored, but instead with armor on, not also pollute the experiment?
Like in your video trying out spin attacks I feel like half the reason you had trouble pulling them off is because of the fencing mask you were wearing, the type of quick head turns necessary for tracking your opponent are virtually impossible with a helm like that.
It could just be that it's one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of things. Because the only proper analog for a real sword fight is.. well.. a real sword fight lol
So first of all I think there's this misconception that what we're wearing is armor. Padded clothing has been around for a long time, and they wore it back in the day to train as well.
Most of the jackets that you see are very well constructed and easy to maneuver in. There's not much I can do outside of my jacket that I can't in my jacket.
As for the masks, they're less cumbersome than you think. The spending a tax just kind of suck in general, part of the problem I'm compromised with doing them is that I'm fearful of doing a full spin attack on an opponent who can stab me back. I can perform it extremely fast when I'm alone, or what I'm doing in choreography, but against an opponent it just feels wrong and open and bad.
And there might be some limitations brought on by wearing gear, but in my opinion they are negligible when compared to the limitations that you'll face trying to do some sort of experiment without wearing gear or using foam or other safer weapons.
@@SellswordArts idk I guess I agree to disagree, you literally cannot even turn your head when wearing those masks, at least ones I've worn anyways, they're very limiting at least for me.
Maybe the best test would be a more comprehensive one where you try to test it with real and foam swords as well as armored/unarmored.
In either case I still believe that every technique is designed to be a solution to a particular problem. So when I hear people have issues with spin attacks its probably because they're shoving a square peg into a round hole and just using the technique in a bad way or in a context where it isn't applicable
The only full test you could do that is 100% would be to actually fight til someone dies.
I want to see you and shadiversity duel I an arena. From fencing to armoured larping combat. Let’s see how it plays out.
Sounds fun.
Shadiversity is more interested in Medieval warfare than purely arena duels though. To be fair it will have to be an entire war campaign. And Shad is allowed to build a castle!
People in Australia have been asking Shad to do this for years.
Unfortunately, he's too cowardly to fight anyone on camera.
@smarchar
Shad: *explaining the game plan* alright so first we're gonna build a moat, and then another moat, and just one more just in case. Hmm no actually we can do four moats thats good...but nah fours a weird number to stop at we'll do 5 yeah, oh but 5s an odd number we shouldn't just stop on an odd number alright then it's settled we'll dig 6 moats
@@milklord_ And they bent all their shovels trying to use them for melee combat, so they are digging the moats using swords.
I would also recommend federico malagutti for hema advice
I really want to start trying to learn really any kind of sword based martial art. It seems really fun and also a good way to be active, but it seems to have such an expensive barrier to entry and I don't really know where or how to start
hhhwhat. just go to target and get a nerf sword. there you go, your journey has began!
@@shmogano
Get a wooden sabre trainer
@@RowanNosnhoj ok then do the opposite.
How to make a Shadaversity call out without saying Shadaversity. LOL
By that logic if I played football I should be allowed to coach.
I guess you don't understand logic.
@@SellswordArtsThis was a short form of my other comment, kind of jokey and honestly thought you’d enjoy it.
Player turned coach is pretty much the logical conclusion...
I would argue that there is value to sparring in low gear, say mask and hand protection, because it tends to make you more conscious of getting hit.
Granted then there becomes the issue of you and your training partner not striking as hard as if full gear was involved, but i would say it's beneficial to understanding how the fear of getting hit is very much a thing, especially back in the day where getting hit was far more devastating.
Nevertheless, great video as always and definitely an important thing to bring up
There's absolutely value in low gear sparring. I do it myself. Both with padded weapons and with steel weapons.
You shouldn't be basing tests and experiments off of the results from those. Those are inherently compromised.
Compromises are good sometimes though! It can get you fencing with less gear, it can make you more aware of certain things, and a whole host of other reasons. But those compromises are limiting how close you can get to The real experience of combat
“The real experience of combat” includes low armor/unarmored situations too..
@@BasedR0nin we're not simulating armor. Sparring gear is there to keep us safe while we simulate unarmed combat.
We don't have to also simulate the terrible injuries that we would get if we weren't wearing any protective gear
@@SellswordArts i see what you’re saying.
On the flip side of what I said it can be cool to simulate armor or straight up wear historical armors to emphasize how you would need to adapt accounting for both the Cumbrance of the armor on yourself as well as how differently you’d have to change your use of the weapon against an armored opponent .
Assume this is nothing new to you tho lol
nah, this idea of being "more conscious" makes no sense. Fencing is training, in training you neeed to be able to safely make mistakes so you can learn. Not being able to do that massively stunts development.
Wow the Shadmobsters are here in force.
I believe what has happened here is a cultural misunderstanding. Your message in general was fine, which is the key, it was a generalized message intended to educate your audience of HEMA fencers. Which is why you did not call anyone out in particular. I think you were trying to be courteous by not naming names. Unfortunately, that very courtesy is considered very rude in the youtube swordsmanship community that thrives on respectful, specific critique and disagreement.
Its like a teacher saying "im not naming names, but if you need to go to the bathroom, please do so before you crap your pants." If a teacher says that in front of the whole school body of 5000 students, no problem, its respectful. But, if they say it to their class of 15 students, its disrespectful, as all the students know who the teacher is referring to.
The youtube sword community is like the small classroom. If you want to tell your viewers who you view as the best sources for learning historical fencing, then just give those resources. You could've even caveated it by saying, "you think most of the others channels (such as Shad's) are a mix of swordsmanship and entertainment, and it can be hard for aspiring HEMA fencers to tell when such channels are giving realistic guidance vs entertaining information." But instead, the way you handled this video ended up sounding arrogant, which I don't believe was the intent.
EDIT: spelling and grammar mistakes
I didn't name any names here because it's not just one person. Multiple channels do experiments like this, and even I myself have fallen prey to this. I call myself out in this video.
Additionally, RUclips is my source of livelihood, and I know it is other people's sources of what could. Calling people out by name only serves to stir up the comment section against them. As has obviously happened with this example.
Honestly I think it's very immature, and disrespectful to call someone out and do an internet beef. Maybe that's how the swordsmanship community on RUclips operates, but if that's how it is, I don't want any part of it. Keep doing what I'm doing
@@SellswordArts I genuinely mean no offense when I say this (as someone who lived overseas in an extraordinarily different culture for years), your comment shows that you just are not familiar with the predominant culture in this niche of youtube yet. You are young, whereas most of the big creators have been here over a decade critiquing and collaborating with each other.
Here are examples from five different major channels of how the sword community here usually handles this type of stuff:
ruclips.net/video/9ex6Q8f8KuM/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/XVutiam4wIE/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/YXQCWSgP0Ps/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/ldm61zS0CMQ/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/q4zAE8EQaW0/видео.html
Or you could just be like Lindybeige and just do your own thing ignoring what everyone else is doing. 😀
Regardless, don't sweat it. You will figure it out, and hopefully be doing collabs with some of these guys within a few years. In the meantime, enjoy the algorithm boost from all the engagement in your comments. (and yes, the big channels know that response videos greatly help the smaller channels grow via the algorithm, they're not just a bunch of big meanies)
I am curious as to what you think about Skallagrim. I personally love his content and i find him to be very well informed and knowledgeable. He also does practice HEMA, though hes fallen out of the practice some recently. I personally feel like he deserves a bit of a shout out because of how good he is and how long hes been doing it.
I haven't seen any of metatron stuff, so I can't comment there.
From my understanding, the other two focus a lot on pop culture swordsmanship, which is fun and is a great boon to the community because it gets people into the art.
Like I said in this video, there's nothing wrong with pop culture swordsmanship, I just think it's important for people to be able to differentiate between that and The realities of how these weapons worked 😁
@@SellswordArts Right, because most people couldn't make that distinction on their own? Too stupid to understand a 10 foot 200lb metal plank wouldn't work as a weapon? That light sabers aren't real? That swords can't cleave through steel armor? Who are you talking about? Check your ego friend. You should know as a M.A. practitioner to never assume or underestimate anything about someone's knowledge, understanding or ability to comprehend.
@@SellswordArtsexcept when you called pop culture content depressing
@@McDonald_Mando
Is he expected to like all content?
Does liking or disliking content invalidate other peoples like/dislike?
@@snimmo He calls pop culture sword content and the amount of it depressing in one video, yet calls it useful and essential here. He calls out creators making too much of said content, yet makes more of it himself. Inconsistent much. If he wants to see less of such content he should at least stop making it himself instead of criticising others.
I like swordfighting, I think it's cool either way and I would love to try it but it's just very unavailable here where I live so no HEMA for me
Thats a cracking Polish Sabre mate ,hope you don`t mind but who made it ? Any chance of a review :)
Its an Ensifer Black Saber 🩷💚
"People that don't know anything about something shouldn't talk about it"
Shad: Oh my god how dare he attack me personally >:( i am an artist grrr
I'm a collector of bayonets (and antique firearms), and just started collecting swords. I have found your video posts extremely helpful, even ones like this which have nothing to do with collecting. Fact is, I am considering getting some training due to your influence, so thanks for that, just to better understand what I am collecting. With all that said, the quality of your videos is quite excellent. I can tell that you (or someone) put quite a bit of work into making them this good.
Any tips on finding and acquiring antique swords is appreciated. Do you collect antique weapons? Do you attend auctions?
Honestly, I couldn't hear anything, I was too busy following the movements of the saber
You made an incredibly informative, accessible and respectful video that brings down swordbros back to reality while encouraging them to be more critical when consuming media, and the manchildren HATED you for it. Who watches this and thinks they're being attacked?
Mercenary Arts here seems to have a lack of self-awareness, calling out other channel's tests as being too broad and too specific at the same time. All the while he is far too focused on "Fencing" as the only sword fighting style.
Oh the irony.
Fencing means sword fighting.
For instance, the English translation of the Book of Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi references fencing.
This is what happens when you get all your facts from somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about 😂
My enjoyment of anime and videogames got me into fencing.
I goof around with friends sometimes because we're all into anime,
but when we're fencing, we are /FENCING/.
No twirls or rolls there.
Love your channel, I found you through shorts and binged your entire video catalogue.
Thank you for your contribution to the swordsmanship/hema/swordfighting community!
Join a fencing club! 😃
Some additional content creators to check out for good HEMA/Fencing stuff that I've found:
Björn Rüther who does cool polearm stuff;
Guildam Gladiatorum, a group located in Czech Republic and Germany;
Schildwache Potsdam is a HEMA club in Germany who do great explanation videos that show you techniques and concepts;
Russ Mitchell out in Irving, TX has some interesting stuff and a focused style;
Weaponism are a group of South koreans that are doing cool nistorical and modern fencing things;
and lastly, while not strictly HEMA or Fencing, there is an Indian martial artist who does really cool traditional sword fighting art from India called Sanatan Shastarvidiya.
F. Braun MacAsh is also a very knowledgeable guy who posts good stuff - might be only on Patreon, not sure.
also... www.youtube.com/@MartinFabian
Akademia Szermierzy is great too 😄
The way this guy does so much to clarify that he's talking about himself, it proves he cares about truly learning swordplay and historic practice. Preservation of tradition and history is important.
My problem with sword and weapon based media is when people talk about things outside their wheelhouse as if they have expertise in it. I've been in the sword world for decades at this point. Have trained, studied and all that jazz and used to take part in trick cutting competitions that we ran on forums back in the day before we had the kind of access we do and I constantly see sword channels talking about arts they have no familiarity with. They make strange claims, that if you talk to a practitioner of those arts make no sense. I've seen a lot of Western content creators talking about swordsmanship in India for example and then I talk to my friend who has been studying and training those arts also for decades now and the information is completely bogus. So if you want to be a good weapon's based content creator, stay in your lane, stick to what you know. Nothing is more aggravating than seeing someone referred to as a "sword expert" talking with authority about styles of swordsmanship or weapons they have no familiarity with. I know one particularly popular youtuber who does the most inaccurate experiments and yet he is widely regarded by people who aren't familiar with why his stuff is garbage as being an authority.
Exactly this. There are amateur archers that will tell you that you can launch an arrow from the right side of an English longbow, when every professional archer knows it will cause the bow to explode into a million peices and kill not only you but everyone in a 12 mile radius. It's an action dangerous second only to dividing by zero.
@@kdolo1887 I do hope you are being sarcastic here (one can't read sarcasm), as not "every professional archer" knows or agrees with your oppinion. From a structural standpoint it does not matter at all for a classic English longbow which side you shoot it from, as they completely lack a sighting window and shelf which would make them one sided. Please check your elitism (if your comment was not sarcastic), because it eludes simple facts like that. Also, there are quite a lot of historical artworks and scripts depicting shooting bows from either side, so I am rather sick of the "this is the right side" discussion. Obviously both sides have their uses (accuracy vs rapid shooting) and have historically seen a lot of use.
@TheEskrion if you shoot from the otherside of an english longbow, you arent doing a mediterranean draw anymore, youre doing a modified version of it. Nobody said its impossible to shoot from the opposite side... the previous commenter is referring to an argument between shad and nusensei, one being an olympic archer and the other, well, you know... isnt, to say the least.
@@g00gleisgayerthanaids56 Precisely. Nusensei knows more than Shad because he is an olympic archer, and if he says the bow will break and Shad will destroy his arm, then that's what has happened because he practices the art and Shad doesn't.
@@kdolo1887 what? No, nusensei has more experience and is a more established operator... i never said he was more knowledgeable, thats your presumption.
Nobody made the claim that you physically cant shoot on the opposite side of a traditional longbow, but doing so is no longer considered a mediterranean draw, if the operation of a technique is irrelevant than it isnt really a technique at all, as in, thered be no need to make the distinction between it or any other draw.... This isnt a big deal, people have modified techniques for as long as we have had them hence "unorthodox" boxing stances...
You know, when you make art you have to understand how things work in reality. That way you know what rule to bend when. So a solid understanding of how real fencing works can really make your choreography pop and stand out from the crowd.
I think the most realistic I've seen is in Alatriste. But the most enjoyable was le Bossu (1997). You can feel they are really trying to kill each other, even if the fights border on silly sometimes.
Hey, just found your channel. Watching this presentation, I was wondering, have you heard of a game called Hellish Quart? If so, what do you think of it? If not, you should check it out. It's essentially a 17th century fighting game using (mostly) historically accurate weapons.
So. I am by no means a swordsman. In fact. As you can see, I am but a humble bird. BUT. I do like me some well choreographed sword fight scenes. Of course. Most of them are in fact fabtasy sword fights. Which is cool. But "real" sword fights never really got me. So there was always that itch to find some more realistic, but still very cool looking scenes. And I have to say, if anyone is like me, I can highly recommend adorea olomouc's channel.
Maybe I am wrong, but compared to a lot of other scenes I've seen (low and high budget) they stood out to me, as the best balanced ones. Of you didn't know them. Give them a try.
As a martial artist and a basic weapon instructor I have found this same issue with a lot of my students and people who I talk to will bring up points that are not necessarily accurate because they think they understand without having practiced specifically with swords a lot of people expect sword fights to be big flashy You're jumping running around but fight should be fast not drawn out the longer the fight is The more dangerous it is quick battles are good battles
Spears are also the king of battles for most of human history.
@@als3022 Yes indeed for both the ease of making and teaching as well as a superior reach as well as a multifunction for hunting certain animals
Regarding training modes I like a quote from Rory Miller:
"If you're training a martial art and nobody dies or gets seriously injured, you have to ask why."
This statement should lead us to think about all the safety mechanisms in place in order to facilitate a safe training. Otherwise you're simply running out of training partners.
So, why is it, that nobody gets injured? Are we training without protection? Then we need to limit speed, impact and momentum. If we're fencing as fast as we can, we're going to use protective gear or the risk of injury is getting really high. If we're fencing with blunts (which is basically the same way they trained in the 15th century), we're not as grave as in danger as with sharp swords. And when we're training with sharp swords, we're usually limited to either cutting tests or some very controlled sparring between experienced fencers.
Point is, every training mode has its benefits and its limitations. You need to be aware of the artifacts you're introducing (the things hindering you becoming a great fencer) as well as the benefits of a certain training.
You will develop better fine motor skill without lots of protection. Artifact is reduced intensity, were you're not getting as fast as you can.
With protective gear, you can use more force. If you only train that way, chances are you're pretty unsafe to fence with without gear, as you never needed to develop the precision and control needed.
When you're only fencing with blunt steel, you don't have a great incentive for proper edge allignement, nor an understanding how a sharp works.
If you would be only training with sharps: well, you would propably be pretty stupid and dangerous. Or you would be forced to fence in such a cautious manner, that you have a hard time developing skills in fencing.
I can wholeheartedly support your statements about experiment conditions: you can test a lot of things, but you have to be aware of boundaries.
Detecting your own bias and the restrictions of your test is as crucial as it is hard. If you're testing a technique from historical manuscript, there are so many things to consider:
- are you using the right tools? Are they the same in your source, and if not: how does that impact your testing?
- are you using the same level of protection as your source?
- are you wearing similar clothing? (especially when you're considering wrestling)
- what is the accepted level of violence on your source? How are the medical conditions now compared to then?
- what is the legal context of your source? This becomes important with duelling material. Not every duel had to be to the death...
- what are the societal norms during the very specific time and place of your source and how do they impact the fencing?
- is your physical conditioning comparable to a practitioner back then? If not, does that impact the kind of movements you can do and the level of stress your body can tolerate?
and so on, and so on.
Good thing in HEMA is that our approach is closer to the scientific than I experienced in other martial arts. It is good, when teh persoanl ego can stay outside and fact-finding and research becomes important. This makes it easier to revise your own statements and keep on growing.
Kudos to your selection of good sources, that is a very solid choice! Nice to see Björn becoming so succesful in this realm as well.
If I may: Oskar ter Mors from Virtual Fechtschule has also pretty solid content. Nice guy and good fencer. Focus is on Lecküchner's Langes Messer / Long Knive
www.youtube.com/@VirtualFechtschule
And for Sword and Buckler according to I.33, Roland Warzecha a.k.a Dimicator is a good researcher and one of the best I.33 fencers. Cornelius Berthold is a also highly skilled in I.33.
Dimicator: www.youtube.com/@swordandshield
Cornelius Berthold / Dimicator Schola: www.youtube.com/@DimicatorSchola
Keep on going! And if you're happen to be in Germany someday, come visit us in Hamburg!
Nice breakdown. It reminds me of one of my kung fu instructors. He said that his father trained Judo, but always went full bore with his partners. The result was after a while, no one was willing to train with him. The problem is he was really arrogant, so he interpreted this to mean he was really frickin' good at Judo, instead of just an asshole.
At one point in adulthood, after my teacher had been training for many years, his dad challenged him to "sparring," basically telling him kung fu was garbage. He promptly got kicked somewhere (forget which body part, honestly) and went right down. Never gave his son a hard time about it again.
Training safely lets you get better. Training reckless gets you injured, and then you're not training at all.
There Is literally nothing disrespectful or “attacking fantasy” in this video. The point is really just “Take everything with a grain of salt, especially when learning about real life techniques.” That’s good advice in general for just about anything. I don’t get the drama. Did I miss something? Why was anyone offended by this? Everything Shad and his community are disputing are strawman that just straight up aren’t there. They’re fighting ghosts.
It seems like Shad just started beef for the sake of content, and his audience all mindlessly ate it up.
Like imagine if you said “Don’t take rides from strangers” and a bunch of people jumped on your ass saying “Are you implying that all drivers are serial killers? Are you saying that I’m an evil person for driving a car!?!?”
Like no, what? Wtf are you talking about?
I know this isnt a callout video (classy move) but could you maybe point out a couple of those experiment examples in the comments? As a guy who has a mostly HEMA interest I have no idea what type of channels you are talking about.
I don't feel comfortable mentioning any channels or examples. I don't like to interact negatively with other creators. I only like to highlight things that I like.
There's too many people doing reaction content and call out videos. It's too negative for my taste.
If you view the channels that I highlighted below, and watch some of our stuff, hopefully you'll be able to tell the difference if you ever come across content like what I'm describing
@@SellswordArts I appreciate the reply. Yeah I suppose its what we older generationa faced when we were frustrated watching the history channel bring in non experts to speculate about things. Any way good video.
I love Shad, but Shadiversity does this A LOT
Lol that's literally what this video is and the entire reason he hasn't responded is because he's literally guilty of even worst shit than he's trying to throw on shad and skall lol
@@y_magaming9798He's praised Skallagrim in these comments. What makes you think he's throwing shit on him?
I guess one benefit of the drama is I found your channel as a result. I appreciate the video because when I was first approaching historical fencing I didn't have a good framework to know who/what to trust on what's 'realistic' in fighting, and I didn't (still don't, thanks to scheduling, trying to keep up on sabre & greatsword on my own) have thorough practice. I was also trying fantasy tabletop for the first time so I was trying to figure out how to describe combat actions more interestingly. But around that time I watched Conan the Barbarian (1982) for the first time, and that movie made me realize I didn't actually care for realism in fantasy media fights. I cared for fights that acted as a device for the narrative. All the fights in the movie are about as unrealistic as can get, but the choreography (while clunky/simple) serves to show characters utilizing their individual strengths/intelligence and to extend the presented themes into the action. There's an antagonist Heavy with a classic comically oversized hammer, for instance, but I don't mind because he's both the only character stronger than Conan and also dumb as a box of rocks. The unrealism servers a purpose. That was back in college and made it much easier for me to not try to conflate realism/historical accuracy with grounded narratives.
Love you’re channel but honestly the art is so broad and complex there really isn’t one set of rules of how to be a good at HEMA or fencing… there is what works for you and what works for others… and on that basis it is very condescending to stand on a pedestal and judge others work just because they do it differently than you do… because what we do has no defined rules or standards, it becomes challenging to objectively measure or validate expertise. Genuine expertise is often associated with a mastery of specific skills, knowledge, or practices, which are difficult to evaluate without clear criteria… even in our sport when someone is defeated in a match… does that mean that person is a master at his craft and the other is just some noob swinging a stick? Should we blindly follow those who win more matches and completely ignore those who haven’t won as many? The way of thinking you’re promoting sounds reductive and honestly doesn’t sound like someone who comes from a teaching mindset; rather someone who is in this to show off.
It sounds like you've completely missed the point of this video.
You should only take advice on how to do something, from people who do that thing. If they don't do that thing, then they have no place giving you advice on how to do it.
There's a difference between consuming content because it's fun, and treating it like educational content. If you notice in this video, I encourage people multiple times to continue watching fun fantasy and pop culture sword media, just not to take it as a how-to on sword fighting.
As to your comment about how broad hema is, that actually proves my point. HEMA is a movement, not a martial art. It's comprised of different systems for different weapons. Each of them their own art. Learning the art of German longsword will be slightly different than Italian longsword, and even more different than Spanish rapier.
So, the audience should use critical thinking skills to evaluate the host, and see whether or not they're qualified to teach you about these things. And if you watch the video, I encourage the audience to do the same to me.
In fact, nowhere in this video do I point myself out as an expert. I even introduced other sword channels that you should watch that have potentially more knowledge than I do on the subject.
I don't think that your criticism of this video is based on watching the video itself, I think it's more based on another creator who made a video wildly misrepresenting what this video is trying to say
6:56 From this part of your video you are claiming to be an expert. Furthermore, I consider you an expert, simply because a person who is governing what bodies of information should and shouldn’t be taken as fact should be an expert. To claim that you aren’t an expert, on a comment of a video of you being an expert makes me think that you didn’t watch your own video. To define it literally an expert is “a person who has a comprehensive and authoritative knowledge of or skill in a particular area.” If that description doesn’t fit you then I have no idea what you are even doing here David. Again love you and your work I just don’t understand what the point of this video was, do you really think that lowly of us that we can’t tell the difference between impractical and practical? The viewers who have stuck around and watch your long form content (myself included) are very interested in what you have to say, this video just felt very condescending and I had to say something. Again, love you and your content.
I do find it very interesting when you are talking about the right gear and experience when you, to my understanding, limit yourself to HEMA. I love HEMA, but it's scope is exceptionally narrow. It's lack of weapon diversity, team combat, or historical based armour has a tendency to make it primarily useful in understanding historical duels and has huge missing sections. I love HEMA, and I love what you do, but I think you have blind sided yourself with some assumptions on this one.
Hema is not the only thing that I'm considering here. Kendo also uses gear, so does Arnis, so does almost every other weapon-based martial art that spars.
In fact, I can't think of a single weapons-based martial art that spars that doesn't use gear.
I'm curious how you find HEMA lacking.
It has an incredible weapon diversity, there is absolutely team combat (I helped run one last year) and Harnisfechten (armoured combat) is HEMA.
@theevol29 HEMA technically does cover other weapons, but the vast majority of it is dedicated to swordplay. There is comparatively almost zero use of spears or other polearms, or large shields, which were major battlefield weapons. And though there is some team combat, im happy to be corrected but ive never seen large scale battle simualtipns in HEMA, like you get in reenactment or larp where you have a larger variety of weapon sets interacting, ranged combat, or larger group tactics, all of which adjust the efdectivness and use of weapons. I'm not trying to have a go at HEMA in any way. I personally study it, though it isn't my primary style of medieval combat that I train in. I just don't believe it, or any of the other styles of swordsmanship represent the entirety of medieval combat and we should take what we can from each.
@SellswordArts I'm not saying not to use gear by any stretch, sorry if wasn't clear on that. HEMAs gear is probably the best for simulating unarmoured combat with how light and unrestrive they are. But they don't simulate medieval armour so well with how they work with weight, vision restrictions, movement restrictions, etc. And I'm not just talking full plate, but from my own experience, wearing HEMA armour compared to a steel helmet and gamberson is a very different feel. Add some maille and suddenly everything is moving differently again.
@Tails7777 Yea. Of course HEMA isn't giving you those things. HEMA isn't a all encompassing battlefield tutorial.
A majority of the manuals are written for knights and nobles.
I like the points you're making. Going to my first tournament in 6 months this weekend, and every time I learn something new about what I've been doing right and wrong, (as well as what other people are doing.) I want to win of course, but I find the bouts where I lose more valuable than the ones I win because I think there's more to learn from them.
It's a shame that you don't mention specific content creators and what you criticise specificly. Now we don't know who and what you are talking about and the creators are not able to respond to your criticism.
You say pop culture is not grounded in reality. ich can tell from my experience, a lot of martial artists and martial arts are nor grounded in reality as well. There is a lot of fantasy in a bunch of martial arts, that is why we need testing to find out, if the techniques actually work and in what circumstances. These tests can only be compromises, because if you wanted to test as close to reality as possible, you would have to be in full gear with real wepons trying to kill somebody who is trying to kill you. That is obviously not ethically doable.
Multiple content creators do this. I've done this before. And I call myself out in this video.
This video exists as a way for the viewer to apply scrutiny to the presenter, including myself. Have you actually watched the video?
Pop culture and fantasy are great, and a perfect gateway into swordsmanship. But they're not realistic. That's why they're fantasy
@@SellswordArts so your not a true swordsman? And nobody should watch you?
@@generightsno I'm not don't watch me
Hey Sellwordarts, could you please make a discussion together with Shadiversity in order to clarify things and cool this situation down? I believe they took this VERY personal and there definitely has to be some common ground between you guys in order to not fan the flames of these communitys clashing together like a medieval frontline. Please?
If he had reached out to me privately I would be more inclined to do so.
Instead, I've had a horde of his screaming fanboys yelling slurs at me all day. Not particularly in the mood for a talk at the moment 😂
@@JoyBoyAlter My apologies,but what he said which would merit such responses and backlash? It all just confuses the ever living hell out of me. This video doesnt even varrant response.
@@SellswordArts ”my arrows will block out the sun”
Sellsword arts: “then we shall fight in the shade!”
"Very personal", really? Did you watch the response video?
@@SellswordArts Or instead of being vague, actually call out that creator(s) and explain your reasoning. It looks really childish on your part for being indistinct and then on top of that putting the blame on Shad for "not reaching out to me privately". This could have been an honest discussion the while community could have rallied around behind but no. Had to be drama for you didn't it?
while you were watching anime, and popping off on youtube... I studied the blade
Hey, I have a question, what lightsaber brand do you use?
probably wrong video to ask this, just wanting to know.
As someone who loves nothing more than BS sword styles like Reverse grip or dual-wielding with the biggest swords known to man
I also really love proper realsitic sword stuff. Be it HEMA or Kendo or stuff like that. I think people who are still doing proper sword stuff in the modern times when everything is all SHOOTY MCSHOOT SHOOT.
It's important I feel, especially for people like myself to keep the two completely seperate while enjoying them both.
Especially since i'll never get to really get into swordplay due to my medical stuff and what-not.
You're great. A self aware person who actually understand that fictional combat isn't effective in real life, but enjoys it for the spectacle. All the anime zealots could learn a lot from you.
Naw, I'm one of the Zealots myself :'D
If i was healthier I'd totally show up Sellsword WITH THE TRUE POWER OF THE REVERSE GRIP, COMBINED WITH DUAL-WIELDING MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Both his dual-wielding and reverse grip experiments were flawed. The correct way to do it is to combine the two while blindfolded and wearing an asymmetric longcoat/haori with only one sleeve. It doesn't work otherwise.
Also what do you mean by SHOOTY MCSHOOT SHOOT? Do you mean that too much entertainment media uses guns, or do you mean that too many people use guns and not enough use swords?
...yes
Reverse grip makes sense if you have a proper plot armor 😂😂😂
I'm genuinely confused. Why are people getting upset over this? It all seems fairly innocuous to me
Because someone told them to be upset
What do you mean fantasy isn't reality? Just this morning I made my sandwich wielding dual colossal swords, the cheese slices were see-through thin!
Unrelated, but that attire is sweet, where would I buy it? Been looking to getting attire similar to that for cosplay (and generally, since it looks great), but cant find any high quality or good websites.
Another great creator making HEMA content is robinswords, highly recommend that you give his channel a look as well.
He is on the recommendation list
This guy is a Chad, the other is a Shad
Wait, did you miss robinswords. I remember you made a whole short about him.
Lol he even tried to talk shit rob????
@@y_magaming9798 ?
Well, I "can't do the art", so then I won't "talk about the art". I'll take my leave then and stop watching your videos if I'm not qualified to talk about them. Have a great day, oh good sir.
You didn't watch the video.
If you have no experience in a topic, you can not speak as an authority on that topic.
If you have some experience, you should only speak as an authority to the experience you have.
@@theevol29 frankly, i don't care. The problem is the fact, that this creator tries to acquire authority by belittleing other content creators in one way or another without pointing out specifics and i don't like that elitist mindset that is presented here. My comment was obviously kind of parody using things said in the video.
Imagine amateur person trying to start yt channel about swords and/or other weapons. They're inexperienced, but are willing to learn and are full of passion. Maybe they have some great ideas and are charismatic, but the lack the proper skills. Why shouldn't I watch them then? Because they are just humans that are trying their best with good intension, that's why. This video is prime example of gatekeeping and toxicity towards less experienced people. I don't care about someone's authority on the topic if they are using it to promote themselves by saying "oh, here are the channels you should watch, don't watch others". He could be the best "sword artist" in the world, but authority is not in gained by knowledge alone. The way you present yourself and the way you talk about the others is just as important.
You may disagree, that's fine. Everyone has an opinion, but I am allowed to state my as much as you are allowed to state yours.
@@jakubkuda2622 all he was trying to say is there are greater authorities on PRATICAL sword fighting. If people felt attacked then they should take a good look at themselves rather than emotionally attacking someone.
@jakubkuda2622 Literally no belittling happened.
Literally no gatekeeping.
Again, it's obvious you didn't watch the video.
If you have no experience in a topic, you can not speak as an authority on that topic.
If you have some experience, you should only speak as an authority to the experience you have.
@theevol29 people can have knowledge in a topic that exceeds there experience.
to the point about youtubers that should actually fence that reminds me of my favorite mindset for a smith i ever heard from a smith: it was a sword smith from germany that learned fencing with longswords, shortswords and the katana just so he could understand the way they function to better his craftsmanship of those weapons.
same should aply to anybody in the fantasy and sword com. aswell. Usage of the weapons we talk about to better understand how they work to aply that knowledge for fantasy worlds or fiction or whatever, to make the content we love better
The thing I enjoyed most about everything you said in this video is that you can apply every piece of advice you said to pretty much everything in life. There are going to be all kinds of widespread things that overshadow the truth, and it’s up to every one of us to ask important questions and understand what’s actually going on, and to also look for people who aren’t afraid to admit they’re not always right because if you don’t then you’ll never know the truth. Maybe I’m weird, but I think beyond HEMA and swords everything you said is just well said practical advice
"videogames, anime, and movies are not accurate for sword demonstrations." What! Outrageous! A double jumping Brazilian cyborg samurai with a gun that shoots his sword out for quickdraws is absolutely the most factual form of swordfighting i have seen!
In all seriousness though, really nice video putting insight on the topic of how to learn something you have to do it. You can know all the components to something but not necessarily how it's used. I was a machinist for years and in this one job shop i worked at we would just get prints with the name of the part we werw making and dimensions of the part, so there were times i had no idea what kind of components i was making beyond just a job company and a serial number.
Spent two weeks making a titanium sled for a nuclear reactor that slammed isotopes together, at least from what the manager told me. I am no more an expert on the subject of nuclear energy after building that than when i started beyond knowing titanium is hard to machine and impossible if you don't use carbide end mills.
sadly the moment i learn about how authentic swordsmanship works, and start practicing them. i couldn't watch those fantasy/flashy swordfight scene, without feeling cringe anymore. because they just look's stupid. and my brain couldn't ignore just how stupid it look's!! seriously!! most reasons director give, for not showing authentic swordsmanship on screen, is because it will be too dangerous, for the actors. because they are swinging steel prop sword at each other. which sound's valid at first. but.....here's some suggestion, in order to make the scene safer, while showing authentic swordsmanship, while still using steel prop sword. shoot the fight scene using 48 fps, or 72 fps. so that the actor could slow down their swing and their movement, so that they both could match, each other swing and movement at a save speed. and then just take out some of the frame for each movement. until each movement, throughout that entire scene, became 24 fps. Done!!!! no fucking excuse!
That''d look terrible too.
@@als3022 i don't think so. cause now? they have more frame to work with! so they could chose a specific frame to take out, in order to make the fight scene look natural. if they take out a frame from 24 fps recording? then yes!! it will look horrible!! because it will no longer be 24 fps recording!! and recording needs to be 24 fps, in order to look natural! but if they take out some, of the frame from 48 fps recording, in order to make them 24 fps recording? then i think the end result will just look natural.
@@setsuna7057 It's extremely hard to slow down your movement, such that it looks natural when sped up.
I have only one issue with this vid. When you showed your recommend chancels you didn't link them in the description or like in a pinned comment. It's a small thing, but it would have made subbing to them as well a little bit easier.
Yeah, I could do that. I hadn't thought of that. Short doesn't let me do that usually
@@SellswordArts Always next time if there is one. Also thank you for the recommendations.
See a fair number of people come into fencing with very strong notions about what fighting with weapons should be like. Whether it's based on a movie or anime or how they just imagine "real" fighting would be, they'll often have silly ideas like counters that consist of 3 actions for every 1 the opponent does or "I'm going to be a viking berserker and my rage is better than any technique". See a lot of defensive poses that were clearly practiced in front of a mirror (although I'd be a liar if I said I never adopted a fun guard without a real reason to).
Usually they start to adapt once they learn some basics and get some sense of community, but occasionally their ego can't handle nobody recognizing them as the greatest swordsman who ever lived and they bail after a few weeks. Always a big ol' bummer to see someone refuse to learn or have any kind of introspection. And a lot of people didn't even get that far into fighting, it really puts the lack of experience from some of the commenters into perspective.
I tried rapier for a bit. I was more humble than what you're describing, but I definitely had a couple "Oh this is going to be much harder than I thought" moments.
The big one was when my instructors fenced then had the students describe what happened. I could not follow at all. Everything between the initial thrust and someone getting a point was a blur.
(Reupload of the comment from a shorts. Just an opinion)
For me it is hard to understand, both fencers on youtube and ordinary people who like martial arts, but keep thinking about martial arts only in the pop-culture way. As it appears to me, people who are not interested in the subject just won’t search for more information, but if you really enjoy swordfights etc. at some point you will get deeper in the topic and won’t question the cinematicness of anime/videogames etc.
And i think that martial artists on youtube should go deeper in the topic and not just sit on the average-joe friendly side of things, as people like Drachinifel and Ian from Forgotten Weapons do for example. They share very complex things (like weapon mechenics, armor physics, steam engine mechanis) and make two-hour long videos about military history and people watch them (they get millions of views).
The same things about melee weapons exist(ed) in russian-speaking youtube. But for me it appears that there are less of such a content on english-speaking stage. When an english-speaking fencer for a thousands time uploads a video about a geek cinematic weapon or smth like that, checking how realistic it is, for me it doesn’t appear to be interesting content. I mean, yes, obviously it isn’t realistic, who have told you otherways? It is for being fancy!
Just an idea from russian youtube: guys have looked on the skeletons and armor remains from the battle of Visby (year 1361) and have guessed, how people used their weapons, how they killed enemies etc. Amazing content! Much better than 1000-ish video about how double-bladed dnd ax isn’t realistic. And what is the most interesting, it is as cool, as in movies: some people miss legs, arms, so realistic weapons are deadly enough to make gore scenes like in anime.
I would really like, if martial artists on youtube would have went that way. In the end, there not so much to tell about things on the surface and i have heard from some guys at lest (like Skalgrim f. e.) that they run out of content and don’t get much views for such a content
Drachinfel is awesome. Also love his trips to the actual ships. They are a little long but love them. Thunderchild design video was my favorite.
Too much LARPing.
There... I said it.
This video is so tame I'm actually surprised it is getting backlash. I suspect it is because it pissed off bigger channels that would in turn bring bigger angry mobs to the video. After all what you are basically saying is if you want to know how the food is made listen to the chefs not the food critics. It is a simple concept and nothing to get angry over.
So I came to watch what you had to say as someone brought it up, and I’d rather hear it from the source. To be up front, I don’t watch your content, I saw it initially and among the higher level group discussions we saw what your content was, had criticisms but ultimately all agreed you had more of a learning/student outlook that would be advantageous to you in the future if you continued making content that others just didn’t have.
And what you say here is true, and good. The advice would be always go to the source, as is my recommendation. And understand it, and the material culture around it.
If I may give a simple example: if some one says they work from Fiori, but use a sword based on Meyer in proportions. I would take what they say with a bit more salt. But that’s a hyper specialization, and is only worth what it means to you as an individual.
It really annoys me when sword fighting in movies is just blatantly wrong. Like when the choreographer isn’t even trying to make it realistic at all, because it’s just poor representation of swordfighting and it really waters down sword media
You are amazing ❤