Yes guys I understand that these other character have some form of super speed. But they are not shown to have consistent speed reaction. Omni-Man has been shown to have speed reaction before but then he will get hit by a robot, or when he was hit by members of the guardians. If he could catch Red Rush's hand then he should never be able to be hit.
Yah, that's always been an issue with feats related to a lot of OP characters. It's why I don't read Superman, because he should never be hit, and Darkseid shouldn't ever lose either. In Onmimans case, hes 400some billion FTL, he could see Red Rush easy, but being able to hit him would likely require some foresight due to the acceleration needed for Smart Atoms to build up.
I completely understand where you're coming from but you gotta understand that issue not only goes for Speedster's but ALL types of powerful characters. Characters that can hold black holes are all of a sudden overpowered by some city level villain. Characters that can control molecules all of a sudden can't stop some rando. Characters who can LITERALLY do whatever they want get beaten up like it's nothing. It's a problem that's unfortunately been around for a long time. Hopefully people like you will bring more attention to it so more consistent stories can be written. 😁👍
I think they were trying to do a thing where he was waiting for red rush to punch a certain area with his arm ready to grab that area instinctively. He can move fast but doesn't have the brain speed to react in the moment so he has to think and prepare before hand. Some inner monologue would of really made his speed reaction make more sense.
@@Velocity_YT he's not. ATrain move Hughie so fast that Homelander couldn't see or hear it. Then again, Homelanders feats are so inconsistent. He can see through anything but Zinc and still couldn't hit Hughie crawling in vents. Do his eye beams block his line of sight? If so, no reason he couldn't fly up and one shot.
Omni man is close to as fast as Red Rush, and what he did was notice that RR was hitting him from his blind spot every time so he knew where he’d be attacking next, that’s why he caught him without looking
While true, Red Rush is still shown in the same episode as being capable to run home change clothes and return. It doesn't really matter if his home was down the road, he's shown as being a lot faster than what Omniman did. My dude spent from his point of view hours for all we know and the only thing he could think about doing was hit him in the chest. Its just outright disrespectful. From a narrative standpoint, if your point was to make the main villain outsmart a speedster, that was just careless.
@@fullestauto8912not only that but red rush,also blocked omniman's punch, they need to at least put a science expert as a director whenever making a speedster character. It's crazy,even if omni man was 95% as fast as red rush,still shouldn't be able to touch him
@@zethembegallant2060 It's just logic. People will rationalize what they see or what is a reflection of their desired outcome. It's part and parcel of the problem. People forget that these..."characters" are just something that someone pulled out of their ass and placed in an arbitrarily defined situation...to tell a story. That's it. Everything that's written can be arbitrarily changed at a whim...because it's all pulled from someone's ass. That's the power of being a creator. People used to understand that. Now? Not so much. There is no reason for Omni Man to even touch RR other than that's what the writer wanted to have happen. Period. But see how OP rationalized it? People were smarter once.
There is at least an excuse for the DC Speedsters, they purposefully slow down their perception as to not have everything be constantly running in slow motions. They also zone out while travelling as to not feel like they are taking ages during their use of super speed. Pretty smart IMO, because I definitely wouldn't be trying to focus all the time if EVERYTHING was playing at 100x slow mo.
while true most of the time, this shouldnt be a thing in scenarios when fighting for your life, thats when they should be fully focusing to avoid making mistakes. i mean, how many times are they gonna get caught off guard before they learn that they should keep full focus throughout the whole battle?
@@lytebluestudios Not really. Perception of time and speed of conscious thought isn't the same thing. In fact your brain can increase the speed of conscious thought when you are doing something engaging and entertaining, but you will feel like time flies by. What speedsters need is vastly altered perception of time, to prevent them from getting bored.
@@libertyprime1614 can you elaborate on that, I didn't get it really. Any other speedster should be able to react and see everything in slow motion or otherwise they will stumble every time running
@@ueiddd Yes, speedsters need to be able to think faster, they need increased speed of conscious thought, but it doesn't mean their perception of time must change. My point is that our perception of time is independent to the speed of conscious thought. Einstein's explained it better “sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it feels like a minute; sit on a hot stove for a minute, and it feels like many hours. That's relativity.”? This is an example of how perception of time can be altered without affecting the speed of conscious thought. If that didn't help imagine you are doing a very boring task for an hour, your mind not into it, you are not into it, and it isn't particularly hard just boring, compare it to the hour of playing your favourite game or other activity, which is very engaging. Without using a clock, if asked to estimate how much time passed after each activity people will overestimate time wasted on the boring task and underestimate time for the game, despite the fact that your brain is probably more stimulated playing the game, and processed more information for the same time.
Here’s something that could make sense. Acceleration. Obviously for speed, you first need to start up as seen with the A-Train clip where he isn’t moving quickly at first but once he gets up and running, he moves lightning fast out. For any speedster, they need to first accelerate. This line of thinking could theoretically apply to fast reaction speeds too as they need to accelerate their thinking if you can understand what I'm putting down. Though, you can really chalk up all failures of speedsters to poor writing that makes it extremely inconsistent in terms of how their powers exactly work…
The thing I really dislike about speedsters, well besides how overpowered it is to move at the speed of light, is their ability to start and stop on a dime. Nice that the Boys seemed to actually give some thought to that.
Dash from the Incredibles moves faster than you give him credit for. For example, he would have had to move around 650 mph to be able to place the tack on his teacher's chair without the camera catching his actions.
your argument is "they could just move out the way" but when your punching someone your whole body is putting weight and momentum into the punch and so its kinda like getting locked in an animation which would leave them open.
I have a terrible idea for how to balance a speedster in a superhero story: don't. Go the comedy rout and make every one else on the superhero team incompetent wildly incompetent in new and creative ways and constantly need to be saved by the speedster.
omniman wasnt focusing on red rush at first but after red rush saved the guardians multiple times he realized red rush should be the first to go and thats where red rush made the mistake of attacking omniman and omniman was fast enough to react to him. red rush shouldve stayed with the role of supporting the guardians and bailing them when they are in danger instead of attacking omniman where he knows he cant hurt him.
There was an issue of The Flash comic where he was in a theater watching a movie and felt pressure on the back of his neck , everything froze around him and when he grabbed at what was pushing on his neck , it was a bullet there was a shooter firing at the movie goers . He got up collected the bullets in the air so they wouldn't strike anyone . Apparently his reflexes kick in and he goes into Super speed automatically . Why Pietro was killed by gun fire , always surprised me . Thanks
That’s exactly what i thought. In the Flash series he outrun the explosion of a atomic bomb! The world is (almost) standing still for him and the other speedsters. How can someone who isn’t a speedster even hit him?
My big thing with speedsters is that they generally don't have invulnerability or enhanced durability, so how can they survive hitting something at the speeds they do? They should receive the same force put into the blow themselves. So if the Flash punched someone, especially a Kryptonian at a speed where the world appears frozen he should destroy his entire arm.
The Flash actually wouldn't destroy his arm since he has a speed force barrier/ aura that protects him from turning into a mushy pancake like normal humans would. That's why he's able to do crazy stunts like punching people who have invincibility. Also if you look up one of The Flash's moves, one of his abilities is called the Infinite Mass Punch.
Part of ANY power-set is "not harmed by own power". Otherwise, all superhero stories would take place in the hospital. Doctor: "Mr. Allen here friction-burned all his skin off. Mr. Summers over there has no eyelids. Mr. Parker centrifuged his intestines out of his rectum while swinging across Times Square. Ms. Grey crushed her own brain while trying to lift a car with it."
The flash has a speed force aura that protects him and the world around him if anything moves that fast the earth would burst into flames but other speedsters don't have a comic explanation
@@white_morphsplays8139yeah but the speed force doesn’t protect him from that. There was a moment where he punched a woman and broke his hand because she was too durable. And in the show Barry punched his bully and he broke his hand because he hardened his skin. Either way it goes the speed force is inconsistent as heck.
makkari and dash are perfect examples of how speedsters should punch. They don’t take random pauses in between each punch or they don’t randomly turn start punching in normal speed once they reach the person they are fighting
Omniman can fly at insane speeds, but he clearly isn't super fast in any other capacity (in the show anyway, I don't know the comics). Him beating Red Rush is the only time in the entire show he displays any kind of speed-react feat.
Also Homeland isn't slow, remember the scene when Butcher sets off explosives in the house and wakes up at a completely different house and sees his wife. Homelander and Omniman are fast enough to catch their respected speedster off guard.
And even if A-Train is faster, there's the psychological aspect of A-Train being intimidated by Homelander. So even if he is faster, he might not think he is
As the saying goes "Speedsters suffer from bad writing." Because EVEN IF you wanted to have an insane Speedster you can look at Metro Man, the guy went on a whole self discovery journey before the constrained power of the Sun "hit" him and decided to play it off as if it worked. He allowed Megamind to have his fun which was the only reason why someone that fast was able to have those situations...which is why these problems come from bad writing otherwise these type of characters are not only nearly untouchable but beyond broken.
I liked the DCAU Flash where if he used too much of the speedforce he literally gets sucked into it and eventually gets atomized if nobody is there to immediately pull him out.
I'm more bothered by the character being a moron than by the writers having to bend physics. One of the early Flash episodes had Flash specifically told "don't make eye contact" with Rainbow Raider. So what does Barry do, like 20 seconds later? Slam RR up against a wall and do the "in your face" thing, and predictably get mind-controlled, exactly as Cisco had warned him not to. I suppose his idiocy DOES explain why he would hook up with his sister...
"Is she able to think as super speed?" Yes actually. In Marvel the speed of thought IS the fastest thing there is. Xavier once had a telepathic conversation with Lilandra who was over 200 million light years away as if she was in the same room with him. In order to do that, his thoughts had to be moving at literally quadrillions of times the speed of light. Jean Grey is a stronger telepath than he is. So yes, she can think at super speed. I do agree that the MCU wasted Quicksilver though. Most of your video you are ignoring the powers of the other character. It is shown that Omni-Man himself can move at many times the speed of light as well. So, while Red Rush may have been faster than him, it wasn't by much.
My problem is more the fact that they don't make the other characters consistent. If they are shown to have super speed once, then they should always have it.
Speed of thought is one thing, being able to SEE him move at that speed is another. You can think as fast as you want, but light still needs to hit objects, bounce off, hit your eyes, then your eyes still need to send that signal to your brain. Let’s not forget your eyes also have a a very limited frame rate so you would never see him moving.
@@hannibalhector3719 Dude, did you really talk about light needing to hit objects with comics and characters that can more many times the speed of light? That's hilarious.
One of your biggest things that I don’t think you understood about fighting a speedster is brain power. Your thoughts travel at the speed of light, a speedster usually can’t move their body faster than the speed of light and though they may be able to react faster than most people, they cannot make their brain think faster than the speed of light as well so when paired with a person that can outsmart them or who’s superpower is mostly in their brain like Jean Grey or apocalypse. It’s going to be a different matchup.. Speedsters usually are impulsive or have decision paralysis along with certain attention issues because they see so many things it’s hard for them to focus on the smaller details and because of that they can be taken advantage of by a person who is smarter. If I know you are going to throw a punch, and I know the limitations to physics at high speed then I can wait until you are past the point of no return to catch you, especially if I can make you jump or grow through a specific action that cannot easily be stopped such as terminating momentum. And while super speed can give a speedster super strength it does not directly correlate to super strength like it does for those that actually have super strength, so they can still break their hands on or get their leg broken by a person who is stronger
The problem with Speedsders is, if we're talking able guys like Red Rush and Flash, was put into words by Mark Waid (former Flash writer). "In any fight hes in, if realistic, would be over in a literal second. Not very exciting." So, you're thinking, you just dont use them right? Or power them down a bit to make it more plausible to challenge them. But you already pointed out the problem with this in the video. Theyre an iconic power set. And superhero fan whos watching your superhero show will exspect to see them. DC sells millions of Flash comics a year. If you took him out of a show with the Justice League then ppl will cry. The curse of success.
I think one easy way to make speedster’s writing more consistent with all these is just by making them have to accelerate to their max speed (which means there’s still at least a a second or two where they aren’t faster than omni-man or homelander), and make it so there reaction speed has to be consciously slowed down, like when they’re running (this would explain why in situations where they’re just chilling lr believe they’re under no threat, something may still catch them off guard). And the boys does do the first one, which has always been a cool detail, where he has to get to speed, meaning theoretically homelander could catch him under certain situations due to his fast reaction
@@ditrix3731 who would win a baseball player or a baseball? The fastest recorded pitch in baseball was clocking in at 105.8 mph (169.1 km/h). which is comparable to a car traveling at around 241 km/h, which is faster than most highway speed limits! A baseball is definitely faster than a baseball player, but that doesn't mean a baseball player can't hit it.
@@superkingarmaan9875 and a baseball travels in a predictable path. If it’s a speedster, they can spontaneously change trajectories at any time and easily react to anyone slower than them.
I think you are giving speedsters the max op, tho they are 'nerfed' for balance reasons. I feel like they are not always in 'super speed mode' otherwise they wouldn't be able to talk or interact with anyone. Lastly I kinda feel like it could be somewhat like they can only do so much at a time, like they have to turn super speed on and off because yes like many other superpowers if you go too far with it they could be overpowered. Idk thats my random thoughts on it.
If you want to be physically accurate, the second Barry starts moving a nuke goes off due to him colliding with air particles at relativistic speeds, killing him and everybody in a 10 mile range instantly. If you want to be slightly less physically accurate and give him durability, a nuke still goes off (or a continuous series of nukes), but he survives it. If you want to be less physically accurate still, Barry phases through air, has insane durability but his punches should be like hydrogen bombs in terms of strength. They seem to pay SOME attention to the kinetic energy a speedster's hits can carry, but they are severely, and I mean SEVERELY downplaying it. They have to make it make no sense, otherwise the movie ends in 5 minutes. Reaction time is one thing but the sheer power is also dismissed.
Super speed really is one of the most nightmarish abilities to keep consistent. 1 second they have bullet time and the next they are like a normal human piloting a jet.
most of this can be explained away as the super speed needing to be turned on or built up, even if it's a always on thing, most of them would have adapted a off botton to not go insane living a eternity in a second, not the best reason, but a reason none the less.
You don't need to be as fast as someone to catch their punch. If you manage to anticipate their move and have good reflexes, you can get away with being a bit slower and not thinking as fast as them. If you're throwing a punch with all your strength, it's hard to stop it and retract it all of a sudden. It's the same for a speedster. Their own punches are too fast for even themselves to easily react to.
one fun idea I read somewhere else was giving peter his takedown scene of jean, then rewinding revealing she was reading his mind and having her counter him, only for him to recover, only for her to counter, etc etc and we can gradually return to normal speed watching these two carry out dozens ten hundreds then thousands of scenarios in a single moment until she finally wins, albeit drained, this would both show how overwhelmingly powerful the phoenix is while still giving peter the respect he'd earned in full by then
The actual fundamental flaw with speedsters is with the exception of The Flash. When you go over a certain speed, you need to push the molecules of air out of your way, which causes friction. Speedsters with set themselves on fire all the time Every action over a certain speed, even the movement of a fist, would cause a sonic boom shattering windows and bones within the immediate vicinity. The Flash gets around this give me the magic of the Speed Force negating all of these problems with going super fast.
Dash was able to be Flash fast. 'Remember the principal's office scene? "Coincidence? I think not!" I remember getting told about a comic book that came out in the 80s or 90s in which the heroes lived in a simulation to hone their clothing, and had to deal with real life consequences when they used their powers in reality. The speedster would burn his feet and flesh off of his body if he tried to run too fast without protective clothing, and I'm not sure if they gave him super reflexes and reaction time.
The problem was making these characters so fast in the first place. Same can be said for superman and many other heroes who could theoretically solve every crime on the planet single handedly if they wanted to.
I think in my headcanon is speedsters use up a lot of energy and focus maintaining their speed. You know how like fighters gas out, play it safe for a bit and then recover? I imagine its like that. Red Rush was probably pretty drained and psychologically busted when omni-man was at his best.
Believe it or not homelander is faster than a-train hes able to outrun c4 explosion and it is calculated that u have to run 18x faster than the speed of sound to be able to outrun a c4 and that is better than any a-trains speed feat so it is possible for homelander to kill a-train but other than that i agree that speedsters should be unbeatable unless your speed and reaction time matches the speedster which for homelander both of his are as good or better than a-trains
That would make sense if that speed was consistent through the show but there are countless times where he is hit at normal speed. So did he just have super speed in that one scene? The writing on that is a little questionable.
@@BaysTalks05homelander dosent utilize his speed much in combat my guess is most of the time he is far more superior than his opponents so his lasers would be more than enough and dosent need to use his speed for anything. It is true that base homelander speed is calculated to be faster than a-train while a-train is on temp V because homelander is not only able to outrun a c4 but also save butcher in the proccess during the explosion meaning he can react things that are happening as fast as 18x speed of sound but maybe even faster because u need to account how he carried butcher to safety during the explosion but i agree that the writing for many tv shows or movies is very inconsistent for speedsters like homelander who can react c4 explosion couldnt react to a punch at normal speed e.g. maeve’s punch
@@africar4592 the light beam is not going at light speed lol not even close to light speed if the lightbeam was actually going at lightspeed that means a-train can run way faster than speed of light which would also mean hes on the same level as flash but we know thats not true
They also gloss over the absolute level of durability it takes to move at the insane speeds. Flash, fine, he has an external force, (Speed Force), granting him his abilities and insulating his body from the effects of super speed but those without such protections have to he extremely durable from the skin to the bones. If they touch an object while in super speed, they are imparting force on the item and for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction meaning a punch would also reverberate with equivalent force back on their bodies it would shred their skin and shatter their bones because at that speed, everything will be like a solid wall. Water, for example, at normal speeds can destroy a person... Speedsters should be immune to damage entirely.
The problem with the Omni-man example. Is simple. The Smart Atoms of his Viltrumite Genes started to adapt to his opponent. And made his reaction speeds capable of catching him. Not his combat speeds but his reaction speeds.
Red Rush and Green Ghost really did have no excuse to die in that fight, one is Fast the other can't be touched, Maneuvering and battlefield control are their main fighting styles, how did they screw up so badly? Because the writers said so.
This might sound crazy but this scene is actively showing that Omni does in fact have a rather quick reaction time. He is clearly able to see Red Rush running around but he isnt fast enough to really do anything so he basically set up a trap for Red Rush
Speedsters also defacto have super strength. The amount of energy it takes to accelerate their mass to those speeds would outmatch just about any feat of characters with super strength.
you forget the part where even the greatest, can fail. Omniman predicted his attack. Try punching at your fullest and retract it if you can do it as fast as you initially had. You can't just "undo" it
There are probably many reasons for this. But the most obvious one is, that we could not have speedsters in our story if this did not happen. They would all be extremely boring because there would be no stakes. They could easily and quickly fix the problem and remove the danger.
I think A-train makes sense. If homelander wants him dead, A-train won't be able to enjoy fame and luxury like before, because hl knows where he is, he's back on the run. While his life might not be in danger, his lifestyle is, so it's no wonder he doesn't dare raise his head to hl
I think i echo a sentiment of someone else that Authors aren't physicists, their story tellers first and foremost. Realism isn't exactly the main focus of a lot of writers, especially not comics. I think their sentiment can easily be seen in Stan lee's frustration on "who would win" saying "whoever the author wants to win", meaning wither a speedster wins or not is based on wither the author built it that way. If you want things that way, thats fine. Write a fanfiction, that is what those are for. But authors tend ot have a good idea of why they written something the way they did, though we will rarely understand the thought processes that went into some decisions. Its safe to say a lot of the time it can be boiled down to theatrics, plot and rule of cool. Better to have the concept of a Speedster than not have them at all is my outlook.
@@MORPHEUS-111 Lol? how can you judge the writing of his character when he has so little screen time to begin with and its a kid, not only that the character had the benefit of coming out in a movie during a period when writers actually knew how to write.
@@TeaTimeTable Because in spite of having less screen time plus being a slower speedster the movie gave justice to the character showed his potential. Unlike other speedsters like Flash who always gets beaten in the most stupid way possible even in those situations where he can handle it very easily as a piece of cake. And moreover the fans spam "Writers Writers..." In the comments.
I agree with your statement and assessment of characters being fast and the writers nerfing them. But red rush and omniman are bad examples … due to omniman easily being vastly faster.
Yeah the problem with speedsters is that writers either don't understand how speed works from a scientific basis, or they make the power more of a On-Off thing and the hero an idiot. But when they show people like Quicksilver and how they ALWAYS see the world around them it is inexcusable to just have a "but he fumbled" moment. The only times when speedsters can lose should be because they just wanted to die
It's not the speedsters that are actually slow and with apocalypse humans don't have powers, so you all just simply don't even understand a superhero or villian in the least. It's just the fact of the matter. I'll tell you though from expy, he just wanted to win. His eyes were watching quicksilver, he then activated one or more of his powers, reacted with an appropriate power set, then demolished quicksilver with strength. He doesn't need to move at quicksilvers speed at all.
If I were to ever write my own comic script, there would either have to be ZERO speedsters, or they would have to be weak af to make them viable. Literally super speed beats so many other things just because "already done, gone to lunch" should be a thing for every speedster. AoU was the worst I've ever seen a speedster at. Then the current era of X-Men cinematics has him being ridiculously OP as he should be. The whole reason speedsters get treated the way they do is because otherwise there'd be no plot left to push forward, because everything would get done in ten LITERAL seconds, and then it would just be the fluff of hanging out off duty after the big crisis is over.
Red Rush aside, I usually chalk up them getting caught out is because for many heroes their abilities aren't always 'on'. Maybe using their ability uses energy so they don't necessarily see everything in slow motion, only when they choose to activate it.
On the jean grey thing, how do you know she cant think that fast, and move the platforms just takes her mind to process it, heck, it would be a reflex to the approaching person. Same with apocalypse, if they are so smart and strong, and familiar with powers, i am sure he might figure what is going on. Not saying they dont do speedaters weird of course, but in some cases it still works.
the flash movie even showed barry killing an kryptonian with his lightning. and then he forgot about it. he could have solved the scene so easily. he even could have gone farter back in time to make sure that the others are not involved in the fight. But i am rambling. Just wanted to agree. But not sure about omniman, bc he has also displayed crazy speed feats. he is possible even faster then the red one (atleast in flight). And homelander also showed similar speed to the feats a-train displayed.
this is why i really dislike speedsters, it always frustrates me. ive not played the latest suicide squad game(or is it a show?) but from the clips of cutscenes ive seen they are unable to kill flash because he is always hyper aware, they have as much if not more trouble with him as they have with superman. even a supersonic bullet from flashes blindzone isnt able to reach him. its funny that when they made him evil he became so much more powerful. there was one show where superspeed was done right, but my memory of that show is faint so i dont remember which, but there the individual had superspeed but not super speed thinking, so he was not op. was it heroes? i dont remember
I will never understand why people guess and make up 1000s reasons why writers decide to do some thing regardless if it was an fup or not, the entire thing is completely fictional and subjective. Writing isn't a science its an art, you can throw logical at it all day but that doesn't mean its good or bad logic. Its all subjective and things are written the way they are for good or worse. Story telling isn't like making a set of rules for a game, its just telling a story.
Makkari literally put all the other characters to shame since she beat Ikaris who was similar to Homelander and yet she never got caught since she didn't allow it.
Quicksilver vs Jean makes sense to me because at the end of the day, Quicksilver brain still needs to send the electrical impulses throughout his body and as an omega level mutant there is no doubt in my mind that Jean would be able to sense that and act accordingly. I think of it less as Jean having super speed and more of an "oh wow any neurological phenomena really is at her disposal, that's crazy."
I hope you see this comment cause I gotta say I do basically agree with you to a high extent. However that’s the thing about speedsters..they become highly predictable. Even super eventually saw the flash in that justice league movie. The only speedster who “probably” would’ve defeated Omni man is the lady from the eternals. Cause she’s highly durable and strong. And she is the creation of a celestial which makes her very powerful. Omni man probably would’ve caught her fist but she seems way more skilled and like a much better fight than that speedster in invincible. Ngl. But yeah speedsters are highly predictable when they rely on speed and fight the same way with the same patterns
I will accept the Kryptonians being able to keep up. In Justice League (both versions, I think) it shows how comparable Superman's speed was to Barry's. If you think about real world fighters who are considered fast and evasive, they can't dodge everything and will get caught at least a few times. I'd imagine Homelander and A-train are similarly comparable.
Also quicksilver from age of ultron most definitely should’ve survived. I think the only reason he died is that they made it so he go so close to the bullets when it was just about to hit Hawkeye and the citizens that he wouldn’t have been able to move himself out the way. And this quicksilver wasn’t that experienced with his powers. Was still relatively new to it. But yeah, he should’ve maybe dodged at least 2 and scraped by the other 2 or 3. And apocalypse is the original mutant so he just evolved to just see at super speed/as fast as quicksilver was going. So that made kind of sense tbh. And Jean gray is generally powerful af and is a telepath. Of course she will lowkey evolve herself to see quicksilver moving fast towards her. Especially with that enhanced phoenix force inside of her
you have two errors in this video... Omniman and Homelander... Omniman can travel thru space by himself continously faster than light, and no matter how fast a fly or a rat is, they will eventually get caught if you set them a trap... and it is called anticipation coz technically they can one shot anyone if they wanted to... due to "F=ma" it means it is either they can't reach that speed or they need to purposely slow down so they won't rip themselves into pieces when delivering harm to others
Finally Someone Made a video On This i Was Always Wondered How GENE GREY,SUPERMAN, APOCALYPSE, would have beaten Speedster It just makes nosense specially FLASH he is the most powerful Superhero I think He can even Beat Superman
That's not the worst part about red rush, the worst part is, he's caught and everyone else just lets Omni Man kill Red Rush and don't atempt to interfere..
This guys biggest problem is thinking every speedsters power is the same and the are as fast as eachother and underestimates the villans, for example just because flash is faster then zods army there is still an army of speedsters that have all of supermans powers which means your reaction are going to be slower because they are faster then normal people and there's an ARMY of them, I dont even disagree that speedsters are used horrible, he just didn't make a lot of good points and disregards the universe and characters they are against
Red Rush was great at %95 of the time. And that last %5 was the death scene. Which is FAR better than almost every speedster because almost all of them are %95 the time stupid
I couldn't agree with this more. It's bothered me forever. I love the concepts of super-speed characters, but rarely can handle the execution and the terrible writing that goes with it.
To say that Omni-Man got tagged by a robot when he has enhanced speed is the same as Red Rush getting tagged by Omni-Man despite having enhanced speed.
See it's different. One is reflex and one is speed. U can move your hand fast enough to catch a fly or a fast paced ball but can't run with the same speed. And that reflex action doesn't need u to see and hold. Just from side view u can do that that's how Omni Man got a hold of red rush and yeah it was stupid of Red to fight him
Let’s just say red rush is faster than Omniman. He let him throw a mean punch, which did nothing, and then caught it because red rush had to take a breath. You’re forgetting endurance. Speedsters can get tired, slow down, and get caught off guard like every other human. Just because someone has a top speed doesn’t mean they’re always moving that fast
I have a problem with how inconsistently speedsters are portrayed for plot convenience. But using Omni-Man vs Red Rush as an example is a weak argument.
Most speedsters can go faster than light. But if you go faster than light, then, You wouldnt be able to see anything. The light would be to slow to reach your eyes. And yet this is never a problem, i get dc's speedsters because of the Speed force, but everyone else, plot holes
No superman analog is slow. They all have super reaction and are capable of stupid speeds. while inconsistent their powers are often canonical as fast as soeedsters. Superman traveling so fast he turns back time *broken. Omni Man destroying the flaxan planet *broken. Because Homelander is a superman analog we naturally assign supes *broken speed to him as well. Hyperion, Sentry, and on and on. Technically you are right but writers nerf powers all the time so the story can happen. I mean Supes is actually way smarter than bats, but bats is always defacto leader of jla...
I think certain moves/conditions can at least make it somewhat harder for speedsters. Condition example: icey floor. Move example (if strong enough): stomping or lifting ground, or breaking ground in a way that is just uneven enough to trip up said speedster.
The small amount of horizontal force supplied by floor friction is insignificant next to the forces applied by running in a gentle curve at 1000 mph. The speedster shouldn't even notice the difference between an icy floor and a floor covered in sandpaper. Also, ice is slippery because of the film of water melting on top of it... but speedsters can run on the ocean just fine. Solid ice, if it's too cold to melt, is basically just another rock.
You have a lot of good points, however speedsters solving all the problems would make for a really shitty story and it wouldn't sell well or make money. A-Train is afraid of homelander, which is why he was constantly getting bullied. Also Homelander's top speed is Mach 2, and A-Train's top speed is Mach 1.8. As for Red Rush dying, It's either he didn't see Omni-Man's hand, or Omni-man's hand moved a lot faster than he expected it to. Quicksilver, he PUSHED hawkeye. He didn't pick them up and move them, he could only get there in time to push them. Apocalypse is a busted mutant who could rival Charles Xavier. It's fair to assume can think fast enough to catch Quicksilver. Phoenix is busted and can read minds. There is no defense for CW Flash, he sucked. The whole point of the ending of The Flash was that without Superman, they would always lose, no matter what. Even if they had kryptonite. Plus, even if they COULD find kryptonite, it would take wayyyyy too long, and by the time they came back, Supergirl would be dead and Batman would be dead. Hell, the world engine probably would have started lasering the planet. I think it's a stupid idea to bring a younger flash who has BARELY a day's worth of experience being the flash into a fight for the fate of the world, since he has basically no idea how to fight or to use his powers, however. That movie was ass. TLDR speedsters are nerfed bc itd make for a really bad story if they just solved all the problems
Yes guys I understand that these other character have some form of super speed. But they are not shown to have consistent speed reaction. Omni-Man has been shown to have speed reaction before but then he will get hit by a robot, or when he was hit by members of the guardians. If he could catch Red Rush's hand then he should never be able to be hit.
Yah, that's always been an issue with feats related to a lot of OP characters. It's why I don't read Superman, because he should never be hit, and Darkseid shouldn't ever lose either.
In Onmimans case, hes 400some billion FTL, he could see Red Rush easy, but being able to hit him would likely require some foresight due to the acceleration needed for Smart Atoms to build up.
I completely understand where you're coming from but you gotta understand that issue not only goes for Speedster's but ALL types of powerful characters. Characters that can hold black holes are all of a sudden overpowered by some city level villain. Characters that can control molecules all of a sudden can't stop some rando. Characters who can LITERALLY do whatever they want get beaten up like it's nothing. It's a problem that's unfortunately been around for a long time. Hopefully people like you will bring more attention to it so more consistent stories can be written. 😁👍
I think they were trying to do a thing where he was waiting for red rush to punch a certain area with his arm ready to grab that area instinctively. He can move fast but doesn't have the brain speed to react in the moment so he has to think and prepare before hand. Some inner monologue would of really made his speed reaction make more sense.
Homlander is actually fast though. That's the thing. Yes A-Train is fast but I'm pretty sure Homlander is faster than him which makes no sense.
@@Velocity_YT he's not. ATrain move Hughie so fast that Homelander couldn't see or hear it. Then again, Homelanders feats are so inconsistent. He can see through anything but Zinc and still couldn't hit Hughie crawling in vents. Do his eye beams block his line of sight? If so, no reason he couldn't fly up and one shot.
A series be like "This speedster can move 5 times the speed of light" *Can't react an attack that moves at 40 MPH*
yeah
Choosing that criminal ju in the Flash movie instead of the guy from the TV series was why it blew so hard.
Omni man is close to as fast as Red Rush, and what he did was notice that RR was hitting him from his blind spot every time so he knew where he’d be attacking next, that’s why he caught him without looking
While true, Red Rush is still shown in the same episode as being capable to run home change clothes and return. It doesn't really matter if his home was down the road, he's shown as being a lot faster than what Omniman did. My dude spent from his point of view hours for all we know and the only thing he could think about doing was hit him in the chest. Its just outright disrespectful.
From a narrative standpoint, if your point was to make the main villain outsmart a speedster, that was just careless.
@@fullestauto8912not only that but red rush,also blocked omniman's punch, they need to at least put a science expert as a director whenever making a speedster character.
It's crazy,even if omni man was 95% as fast as red rush,still shouldn't be able to touch him
@@zethembegallant2060 It's just logic. People will rationalize what they see or what is a reflection of their desired outcome. It's part and parcel of the problem.
People forget that these..."characters" are just something that someone pulled out of their ass and placed in an arbitrarily defined situation...to tell a story.
That's it. Everything that's written can be arbitrarily changed at a whim...because it's all pulled from someone's ass.
That's the power of being a creator.
People used to understand that.
Now? Not so much. There is no reason for Omni Man to even touch RR other than that's what the writer wanted to have happen. Period.
But see how OP rationalized it?
People were smarter once.
There is at least an excuse for the DC Speedsters, they purposefully slow down their perception as to not have everything be constantly running in slow motions. They also zone out while travelling as to not feel like they are taking ages during their use of super speed. Pretty smart IMO, because I definitely wouldn't be trying to focus all the time if EVERYTHING was playing at 100x slow mo.
while true most of the time, this shouldnt be a thing in scenarios when fighting for your life, thats when they should be fully focusing to avoid making mistakes. i mean, how many times are they gonna get caught off guard before they learn that they should keep full focus throughout the whole battle?
Everyone with superspeed should have this to some degree.
@@lytebluestudios Not really. Perception of time and speed of conscious thought isn't the same thing. In fact your brain can increase the speed of conscious thought when you are doing something engaging and entertaining, but you will feel like time flies by. What speedsters need is vastly altered perception of time, to prevent them from getting bored.
@@libertyprime1614 can you elaborate on that, I didn't get it really. Any other speedster should be able to react and see everything in slow motion or otherwise they will stumble every time running
@@ueiddd Yes, speedsters need to be able to think faster, they need increased speed of conscious thought, but it doesn't mean their perception of time must change.
My point is that our perception of time is independent to the speed of conscious thought.
Einstein's explained it better “sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it feels like a minute; sit on a hot stove for a minute, and it feels like many hours. That's relativity.”?
This is an example of how perception of time can be altered without affecting the speed of conscious thought.
If that didn't help imagine you are doing a very boring task for an hour, your mind not into it, you are not into it, and it isn't particularly hard just boring, compare it to the hour of playing your favourite game or other activity, which is very engaging.
Without using a clock, if asked to estimate how much time passed after each activity people will overestimate time wasted on the boring task and underestimate time for the game, despite the fact that your brain is probably more stimulated playing the game, and processed more information for the same time.
Here’s something that could make sense.
Acceleration.
Obviously for speed, you first need to start up as seen with the A-Train clip where he isn’t moving quickly at first but once he gets up and running, he moves lightning fast out. For any speedster, they need to first accelerate.
This line of thinking could theoretically apply to fast reaction speeds too as they need to accelerate their thinking if you can understand what I'm putting down.
Though, you can really chalk up all failures of speedsters to poor writing that makes it extremely inconsistent in terms of how their powers exactly work…
That’s actually a really smart rule for speedsters.
The thing I really dislike about speedsters, well besides how overpowered it is to move at the speed of light, is their ability to start and stop on a dime. Nice that the Boys seemed to actually give some thought to that.
Dash from the Incredibles moves faster than you give him credit for. For example, he would have had to move around 650 mph to be able to place the tack on his teacher's chair without the camera catching his actions.
Yeah, and that was from a sitting position. 0-650, instantly.
@@fastral7769 it's his acceleration that's impressive
Maybe that is like his sprint. His normal solid pace would be a bit lower. One he could maintain. Maybe like 400mph
your argument is "they could just move out the way" but when your punching someone your whole body is putting weight and momentum into the punch and so its kinda like getting locked in an animation which would leave them open.
that is a good point
I have a terrible idea for how to balance a speedster in a superhero story: don't. Go the comedy rout and make every one else on the superhero team incompetent wildly incompetent in new and creative ways and constantly need to be saved by the speedster.
bro, if Jean grey would receive that hit from a speedster character, Bro many simps would get hate on Quicksilver 💀
omniman wasnt focusing on red rush at first but after red rush saved the guardians multiple times he realized red rush should be the first to go and thats where red rush made the mistake of attacking omniman and omniman was fast enough to react to him.
red rush shouldve stayed with the role of supporting the guardians and bailing them when they are in danger instead of attacking omniman where he knows he cant hurt him.
There was an issue of The Flash comic where he was in a theater watching a movie and felt pressure on the back of his neck , everything froze around him and when he grabbed at what was pushing on his neck , it was a bullet there was a shooter firing at the movie goers . He got up collected the bullets in the air so they wouldn't strike anyone . Apparently his reflexes kick in and he goes into Super speed automatically . Why Pietro was killed by gun fire , always surprised me . Thanks
I remember that one. Classic!!
That’s exactly what i thought. In the Flash series he outrun the explosion of a atomic bomb! The world is (almost) standing still for him and the other speedsters. How can someone who isn’t a speedster even hit him?
Exactly. Characters with super speed are op and should almost never be able to be touched.
My big thing with speedsters is that they generally don't have invulnerability or enhanced durability, so how can they survive hitting something at the speeds they do? They should receive the same force put into the blow themselves.
So if the Flash punched someone, especially a Kryptonian at a speed where the world appears frozen he should destroy his entire arm.
They have to have some form a durability because their skin would melt off when running if not
The Flash actually wouldn't destroy his arm since he has a speed force barrier/ aura that protects him from turning into a mushy pancake like normal humans would. That's why he's able to do crazy stunts like punching people who have invincibility. Also if you look up one of The Flash's moves, one of his abilities is called the Infinite Mass Punch.
Part of ANY power-set is "not harmed by own power". Otherwise, all superhero stories would take place in the hospital.
Doctor: "Mr. Allen here friction-burned all his skin off. Mr. Summers over there has no eyelids. Mr. Parker centrifuged his intestines out of his rectum while swinging across Times Square. Ms. Grey crushed her own brain while trying to lift a car with it."
The flash has a speed force aura that protects him and the world around him if anything moves that fast the earth would burst into flames but other speedsters don't have a comic explanation
@@white_morphsplays8139yeah but the speed force doesn’t protect him from that. There was a moment where he punched a woman and broke his hand because she was too durable. And in the show Barry punched his bully and he broke his hand because he hardened his skin. Either way it goes the speed force is inconsistent as heck.
makkari and dash are perfect examples of how speedsters should punch. They don’t take random pauses in between each punch or they don’t randomly turn start punching in normal speed once they reach the person they are fighting
You're assumption is that omniman is slow, he's not
Agreed. he aint slow. HE IS FTL+ OR MORE.
he is at tier 5A i think.
homelander 8A?
captain marvel 2A or 2C (shazam)
Omniman can fly at insane speeds, but he clearly isn't super fast in any other capacity (in the show anyway, I don't know the comics). Him beating Red Rush is the only time in the entire show he displays any kind of speed-react feat.
Also Homeland isn't slow, remember the scene when Butcher sets off explosives in the house and wakes up at a completely different house and sees his wife. Homelander and Omniman are fast enough to catch their respected speedster off guard.
@trancendedmindpalace Good point. He's have to have inhuman reaction time as well as superspeed to do that
And even if A-Train is faster, there's the psychological aspect of A-Train being intimidated by Homelander. So even if he is faster, he might not think he is
that slow ass explosion😂
homelander probably just saw butcher about to press the button and just tanked it so butcher wouldn't die
As the saying goes "Speedsters suffer from bad writing." Because EVEN IF you wanted to have an insane Speedster you can look at Metro Man, the guy went on a whole self discovery journey before the constrained power of the Sun "hit" him and decided to play it off as if it worked. He allowed Megamind to have his fun which was the only reason why someone that fast was able to have those situations...which is why these problems come from bad writing otherwise these type of characters are not only nearly untouchable but beyond broken.
I liked the DCAU Flash where if he used too much of the speedforce he literally gets sucked into it and eventually gets atomized if nobody is there to immediately pull him out.
I'm more bothered by the character being a moron than by the writers having to bend physics. One of the early Flash episodes had Flash specifically told "don't make eye contact" with Rainbow Raider. So what does Barry do, like 20 seconds later? Slam RR up against a wall and do the "in your face" thing, and predictably get mind-controlled, exactly as Cisco had warned him not to.
I suppose his idiocy DOES explain why he would hook up with his sister...
The one weakness that speedsters should have is ther arrogance.
like if they get too over confident, thats when bad guys should be able to strike
Omniman and Homelander also have super speed and are arguably as faster or faster than Red Rush and A-Train
"Is she able to think as super speed?" Yes actually. In Marvel the speed of thought IS the fastest thing there is. Xavier once had a telepathic conversation with Lilandra who was over 200 million light years away as if she was in the same room with him. In order to do that, his thoughts had to be moving at literally quadrillions of times the speed of light. Jean Grey is a stronger telepath than he is. So yes, she can think at super speed. I do agree that the MCU wasted Quicksilver though. Most of your video you are ignoring the powers of the other character. It is shown that Omni-Man himself can move at many times the speed of light as well. So, while Red Rush may have been faster than him, it wasn't by much.
My problem is more the fact that they don't make the other characters consistent. If they are shown to have super speed once, then they should always have it.
@@BaysTalks05 No character in comics is truly consistent. I'm not saying that is a good thing, because it isn't, but it is normal at this point.
Speed of thought is one thing, being able to SEE him move at that speed is another. You can think as fast as you want, but light still needs to hit objects, bounce off, hit your eyes, then your eyes still need to send that signal to your brain. Let’s not forget your eyes also have a a very limited frame rate so you would never see him moving.
@@hannibalhector3719 Dude, did you really talk about light needing to hit objects with comics and characters that can more many times the speed of light? That's hilarious.
@@sidroberts7960 I’m simply speaking as to her limitations. Not the speedsters.
Same thing happened to Makkari from eternals. If speedsters can move before one can think and react how can one stop them.
even the fact they have super speed SHOULD = the super strength required, makes no sense they ever get hurt
Exactly my thoughts, im not really sure about red rush and a-train, but the point still stands...
One of your biggest things that I don’t think you understood about fighting a speedster is brain power. Your thoughts travel at the speed of light, a speedster usually can’t move their body faster than the speed of light and though they may be able to react faster than most people, they cannot make their brain think faster than the speed of light as well so when paired with a person that can outsmart them or who’s superpower is mostly in their brain like Jean Grey or apocalypse. It’s going to be a different matchup..
Speedsters usually are impulsive or have decision paralysis along with certain attention issues because they see so many things it’s hard for them to focus on the smaller details and because of that they can be taken advantage of by a person who is smarter. If I know you are going to throw a punch, and I know the limitations to physics at high speed then I can wait until you are past the point of no return to catch you, especially if I can make you jump or grow through a specific action that cannot easily be stopped such as terminating momentum.
And while super speed can give a speedster super strength it does not directly correlate to super strength like it does for those that actually have super strength, so they can still break their hands on or get their leg broken by a person who is stronger
The problem with Speedsders is, if we're talking able guys like Red Rush and Flash, was put into words by Mark Waid (former Flash writer). "In any fight hes in, if realistic, would be over in a literal second. Not very exciting."
So, you're thinking, you just dont use them right? Or power them down a bit to make it more plausible to challenge them. But you already pointed out the problem with this in the video. Theyre an iconic power set. And superhero fan whos watching your superhero show will exspect to see them. DC sells millions of Flash comics a year. If you took him out of a show with the Justice League then ppl will cry. The curse of success.
I think one easy way to make speedster’s writing more consistent with all these is just by making them have to accelerate to their max speed (which means there’s still at least a a second or two where they aren’t faster than omni-man or homelander), and make it so there reaction speed has to be consciously slowed down, like when they’re running (this would explain why in situations where they’re just chilling lr believe they’re under no threat, something may still catch them off guard).
And the boys does do the first one, which has always been a cool detail, where he has to get to speed, meaning theoretically homelander could catch him under certain situations due to his fast reaction
Homelander is faster than A-Train
clearly not in react or combat speed though, maeve was giving him a run for his money
The problem is that a speedster is only invincible if their opponent isn't fast enough.
He was clearly significantly faster than omni man.
@@absolutleynotanalien8096 he definitely was but Omni man has reaction time and prediction at his side.
@@superkingarmaan9875 it's like you people don't understand what super speed is🤦♂
@@ditrix3731 who would win a baseball player or a baseball? The fastest recorded pitch in baseball was clocking in at 105.8 mph (169.1 km/h). which is comparable to a car traveling at around 241 km/h, which is faster than most highway speed limits!
A baseball is definitely faster than a baseball player, but that doesn't mean a baseball player can't hit it.
@@superkingarmaan9875 and a baseball travels in a predictable path. If it’s a speedster, they can spontaneously change trajectories at any time and easily react to anyone slower than them.
I think you are giving speedsters the max op, tho they are 'nerfed' for balance reasons. I feel like they are not always in 'super speed mode' otherwise they wouldn't be able to talk or interact with anyone. Lastly I kinda feel like it could be somewhat like they can only do so much at a time, like they have to turn super speed on and off because yes like many other superpowers if you go too far with it they could be overpowered. Idk thats my random thoughts on it.
If you want to be physically accurate, the second Barry starts moving a nuke goes off due to him colliding with air particles at relativistic speeds, killing him and everybody in a 10 mile range instantly. If you want to be slightly less physically accurate and give him durability, a nuke still goes off (or a continuous series of nukes), but he survives it. If you want to be less physically accurate still, Barry phases through air, has insane durability but his punches should be like hydrogen bombs in terms of strength. They seem to pay SOME attention to the kinetic energy a speedster's hits can carry, but they are severely, and I mean SEVERELY downplaying it. They have to make it make no sense, otherwise the movie ends in 5 minutes. Reaction time is one thing but the sheer power is also dismissed.
Super speed really is one of the most nightmarish abilities to keep consistent. 1 second they have bullet time and the next they are like a normal human piloting a jet.
most of this can be explained away as the super speed needing to be turned on or built up, even if it's a always on thing, most of them would have adapted a off botton to not go insane living a eternity in a second, not the best reason, but a reason none the less.
You don't need to be as fast as someone to catch their punch. If you manage to anticipate their move and have good reflexes, you can get away with being a bit slower and not thinking as fast as them. If you're throwing a punch with all your strength, it's hard to stop it and retract it all of a sudden. It's the same for a speedster. Their own punches are too fast for even themselves to easily react to.
one fun idea I read somewhere else was giving peter his takedown scene of jean, then rewinding revealing she was reading his mind and having her counter him, only for him to recover, only for her to counter, etc etc and we can gradually return to normal speed watching these two carry out dozens ten hundreds then thousands of scenarios in a single moment until she finally wins, albeit drained, this would both show how overwhelmingly powerful the phoenix is while still giving peter the respect he'd earned in full by then
The actual fundamental flaw with speedsters is with the exception of The Flash. When you go over a certain speed, you need to push the molecules of air out of your way, which causes friction. Speedsters with set themselves on fire all the time
Every action over a certain speed, even the movement of a fist, would cause a sonic boom shattering windows and bones within the immediate vicinity.
The Flash gets around this give me the magic of the Speed Force negating all of these problems with going super fast.
Dash was able to be Flash fast. 'Remember the principal's office scene? "Coincidence? I think not!"
I remember getting told about a comic book that came out in the 80s or 90s in which the heroes lived in a simulation to hone their clothing, and had to deal with real life consequences when they used their powers in reality. The speedster would burn his feet and flesh off of his body if he tried to run too fast without protective clothing, and I'm not sure if they gave him super reflexes and reaction time.
The problem was making these characters so fast in the first place. Same can be said for superman and many other heroes who could theoretically solve every crime on the planet single handedly if they wanted to.
I think in my headcanon is speedsters use up a lot of energy and focus maintaining their speed.
You know how like fighters gas out, play it safe for a bit and then recover? I imagine its like that.
Red Rush was probably pretty drained and psychologically busted when omni-man was at his best.
Believe it or not homelander is faster than a-train hes able to outrun c4 explosion and it is calculated that u have to run 18x faster than the speed of sound to be able to outrun a c4 and that is better than any a-trains speed feat so it is possible for homelander to kill a-train but other than that i agree that speedsters should be unbeatable unless your speed and reaction time matches the speedster which for homelander both of his are as good or better than a-trains
That would make sense if that speed was consistent through the show but there are countless times where he is hit at normal speed. So did he just have super speed in that one scene? The writing on that is a little questionable.
@@BaysTalks05homelander dosent utilize his speed much in combat my guess is most of the time he is far more superior than his opponents so his lasers would be more than enough and dosent need to use his speed for anything. It is true that base homelander speed is calculated to be faster than a-train while a-train is on temp V because homelander is not only able to outrun a c4 but also save butcher in the proccess during the explosion meaning he can react things that are happening as fast as 18x speed of sound but maybe even faster because u need to account how he carried butcher to safety during the explosion but i agree that the writing for many tv shows or movies is very inconsistent for speedsters like homelander who can react c4 explosion couldnt react to a punch at normal speed e.g. maeve’s punch
Lmao A-train saw light in slow motion what do you mean
@@africar4592 the light beam is not going at light speed lol not even close to light speed if the lightbeam was actually going at lightspeed that means a-train can run way faster than speed of light which would also mean hes on the same level as flash but we know thats not true
@@africar4592 also he had a side effect after seeing it in slow motion (he had a heart attack)
They also gloss over the absolute level of durability it takes to move at the insane speeds. Flash, fine, he has an external force, (Speed Force), granting him his abilities and insulating his body from the effects of super speed but those without such protections have to he extremely durable from the skin to the bones. If they touch an object while in super speed, they are imparting force on the item and for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction meaning a punch would also reverberate with equivalent force back on their bodies it would shred their skin and shatter their bones because at that speed, everything will be like a solid wall. Water, for example, at normal speeds can destroy a person... Speedsters should be immune to damage entirely.
Omniman isn't slow
The problem with the Omni-man example. Is simple. The Smart Atoms of his Viltrumite Genes started to adapt to his opponent. And made his reaction speeds capable of catching him. Not his combat speeds but his reaction speeds.
Omniman and homelander can operate at similar bursts of speed and reaction time as the speedsters in their series
Red Rush and Green Ghost really did have no excuse to die in that fight, one is Fast the other can't be touched, Maneuvering and battlefield control are their main fighting styles, how did they screw up so badly?
Because the writers said so.
This might sound crazy but this scene is actively showing that Omni does in fact have a rather quick reaction time. He is clearly able to see Red Rush running around but he isnt fast enough to really do anything so he basically set up a trap for Red Rush
Speedsters also defacto have super strength.
The amount of energy it takes to accelerate their mass to those speeds would outmatch just about any feat of characters with super strength.
you forget the part where even the greatest, can fail. Omniman predicted his attack. Try punching at your fullest and retract it if you can do it as fast as you initially had. You can't just "undo" it
There are probably many reasons for this. But the most obvious one is, that we could not have speedsters in our story if this did not happen. They would all be extremely boring because there would be no stakes. They could easily and quickly fix the problem and remove the danger.
I think A-train makes sense. If homelander wants him dead, A-train won't be able to enjoy fame and luxury like before, because hl knows where he is, he's back on the run. While his life might not be in danger, his lifestyle is, so it's no wonder he doesn't dare raise his head to hl
I think i echo a sentiment of someone else that Authors aren't physicists, their story tellers first and foremost. Realism isn't exactly the main focus of a lot of writers, especially not comics. I think their sentiment can easily be seen in Stan lee's frustration on "who would win" saying "whoever the author wants to win", meaning wither a speedster wins or not is based on wither the author built it that way.
If you want things that way, thats fine. Write a fanfiction, that is what those are for. But authors tend ot have a good idea of why they written something the way they did, though we will rarely understand the thought processes that went into some decisions. Its safe to say a lot of the time it can be boiled down to theatrics, plot and rule of cool. Better to have the concept of a Speedster than not have them at all is my outlook.
Dude, speedsters are nerfed everywhere randomly because if they weren't you would not have any stores. There's nothing to analyze.
No it's just bad writing. Metro Man and Dash are perfect examples.
@@BaysTalks05 Dash is a kid and slow AF shouldnt even be mentioned dash is most likely super sonic at best
@TeaTimeTable
And That speedster somehow gained more respect and had better writing than any fast speedsters known today.
@@MORPHEUS-111 Lol? how can you judge the writing of his character when he has so little screen time to begin with and its a kid, not only that the character had the benefit of coming out in a movie during a period when writers actually knew how to write.
@@TeaTimeTable
Because in spite of having less screen time plus being a slower speedster the movie gave justice to the character showed his potential.
Unlike other speedsters like Flash who always gets beaten in the most stupid way possible even in those situations where he can handle it very easily as a piece of cake.
And moreover the fans spam "Writers Writers..." In the comments.
I agree with your statement and assessment of characters being fast and the writers nerfing them. But red rush and omniman are bad examples … due to omniman easily being vastly faster.
Yeah the problem with speedsters is that writers either don't understand how speed works from a scientific basis, or they make the power more of a On-Off thing and the hero an idiot. But when they show people like Quicksilver and how they ALWAYS see the world around them it is inexcusable to just have a "but he fumbled" moment. The only times when speedsters can lose should be because they just wanted to die
Also, their punches would be the strongest of them all. Newton's 2nd Law...
CW flash's weakness is the desire to STOP AND TALK
See the bullets coming? Well... Sure. But, if you don't watch, you don't see tho ^^
It's not the speedsters that are actually slow and with apocalypse humans don't have powers, so you all just simply don't even understand a superhero or villian in the least. It's just the fact of the matter. I'll tell you though from expy, he just wanted to win. His eyes were watching quicksilver, he then activated one or more of his powers, reacted with an appropriate power set, then demolished quicksilver with strength. He doesn't need to move at quicksilvers speed at all.
Well if you’re gonna make a speedster character, you should give them a flaw that makes them vulnerable or human
If I were to ever write my own comic script, there would either have to be ZERO speedsters, or they would have to be weak af to make them viable. Literally super speed beats so many other things just because "already done, gone to lunch" should be a thing for every speedster. AoU was the worst I've ever seen a speedster at. Then the current era of X-Men cinematics has him being ridiculously OP as he should be.
The whole reason speedsters get treated the way they do is because otherwise there'd be no plot left to push forward, because everything would get done in ten LITERAL seconds, and then it would just be the fluff of hanging out off duty after the big crisis is over.
0:31 when I saw this I fucking raged so much
Red Rush aside, I usually chalk up them getting caught out is because for many heroes their abilities aren't always 'on'.
Maybe using their ability uses energy so they don't necessarily see everything in slow motion, only when they choose to activate it.
On the jean grey thing, how do you know she cant think that fast, and move the platforms just takes her mind to process it, heck, it would be a reflex to the approaching person. Same with apocalypse, if they are so smart and strong, and familiar with powers, i am sure he might figure what is going on. Not saying they dont do speedaters weird of course, but in some cases it still works.
the flash movie even showed barry killing an kryptonian with his lightning. and then he forgot about it. he could have solved the scene so easily. he even could have gone farter back in time to make sure that the others are not involved in the fight. But i am rambling. Just wanted to agree.
But not sure about omniman, bc he has also displayed crazy speed feats. he is possible even faster then the red one (atleast in flight).
And homelander also showed similar speed to the feats a-train displayed.
this is why i really dislike speedsters, it always frustrates me. ive not played the latest suicide squad game(or is it a show?) but from the clips of cutscenes ive seen they are unable to kill flash because he is always hyper aware, they have as much if not more trouble with him as they have with superman. even a supersonic bullet from flashes blindzone isnt able to reach him. its funny that when they made him evil he became so much more powerful.
there was one show where superspeed was done right, but my memory of that show is faint so i dont remember which, but there the individual had superspeed but not super speed thinking, so he was not op. was it heroes? i dont remember
I will never understand why people guess and make up 1000s reasons why writers decide to do some thing regardless if it was an fup or not, the entire thing is completely fictional and subjective.
Writing isn't a science its an art, you can throw logical at it all day but that doesn't mean its good or bad logic. Its all subjective and things are written the way they are for good or worse.
Story telling isn't like making a set of rules for a game, its just telling a story.
Makkari literally put all the other characters to shame since she beat Ikaris who was similar to Homelander and yet she never got caught since she didn't allow it.
Quicksilver vs Jean makes sense to me because at the end of the day, Quicksilver brain still needs to send the electrical impulses throughout his body and as an omega level mutant there is no doubt in my mind that Jean would be able to sense that and act accordingly. I think of it less as Jean having super speed and more of an "oh wow any neurological phenomena really is at her disposal, that's crazy."
I hope you see this comment cause I gotta say I do basically agree with you to a high extent. However that’s the thing about speedsters..they become highly predictable. Even super eventually saw the flash in that justice league movie. The only speedster who “probably” would’ve defeated Omni man is the lady from the eternals. Cause she’s highly durable and strong. And she is the creation of a celestial which makes her very powerful. Omni man probably would’ve caught her fist but she seems way more skilled and like a much better fight than that speedster in invincible. Ngl. But yeah speedsters are highly predictable when they rely on speed and fight the same way with the same patterns
3:47 that was just some fate stuff.
I will accept the Kryptonians being able to keep up. In Justice League (both versions, I think) it shows how comparable Superman's speed was to Barry's.
If you think about real world fighters who are considered fast and evasive, they can't dodge everything and will get caught at least a few times. I'd imagine Homelander and A-train are similarly comparable.
In basilisk the main character was a speedster ninja
That king Arthur movie Excalibur gave the weilder super speed
Speedsters ain't the only fast people ya know that's how omni man got his arm . Speedsters are just the fastest
Also quicksilver from age of ultron most definitely should’ve survived. I think the only reason he died is that they made it so he go so close to the bullets when it was just about to hit Hawkeye and the citizens that he wouldn’t have been able to move himself out the way. And this quicksilver wasn’t that experienced with his powers. Was still relatively new to it. But yeah, he should’ve maybe dodged at least 2 and scraped by the other 2 or 3. And apocalypse is the original mutant so he just evolved to just see at super speed/as fast as quicksilver was going. So that made kind of sense tbh. And Jean gray is generally powerful af and is a telepath. Of course she will lowkey evolve herself to see quicksilver moving fast towards her. Especially with that enhanced phoenix force inside of her
you have two errors in this video...
Omniman and Homelander...
Omniman can travel thru space by himself continously faster than light,
and no matter how fast a fly or a rat is, they will eventually get caught if you set them a trap...
and it is called anticipation
coz technically they can one shot anyone if they wanted to...
due to "F=ma"
it means it is either they can't reach that speed or they need to purposely slow down so they won't rip themselves into pieces when delivering harm to others
Wow!! Very original script. I can tell you were new to Reddit.💀💀💀💀💀💀
I thought Red rush is also 300 mph. Fast but not light speed fast
Writers, bad writers. Drama makes $. 😒
Finally Someone Made a video On This i Was Always Wondered How GENE GREY,SUPERMAN, APOCALYPSE, would have beaten Speedster It just makes nosense specially FLASH he is the most powerful Superhero I think He can even Beat Superman
in dc injustice comics catwoman beat a speedster with quick reflexes and prediction.
Kid Flash from 2003 teen titans is the worst example
That's not the worst part about red rush, the worst part is, he's caught and everyone else just lets Omni Man kill Red Rush and don't atempt to interfere..
speedsters are just nerfed for the bet of the movies or series lol
Someone finally get it.
Yeah speedsters are so fast it's hard for the writers to really grasp them...
This guys biggest problem is thinking every speedsters power is the same and the are as fast as eachother and underestimates the villans, for example just because flash is faster then zods army there is still an army of speedsters that have all of supermans powers which means your reaction are going to be slower because they are faster then normal people and there's an ARMY of them, I dont even disagree that speedsters are used horrible, he just didn't make a lot of good points and disregards the universe and characters they are against
2:43 Nwh. He's much faster than 500miles per hour. He's fast enough that ca eras can't catch him.
Any DC fan knows how OP speedsters are lol
Red Rush was great at %95 of the time. And that last %5 was the death scene. Which is FAR better than almost every speedster because almost all of them are %95 the time stupid
I couldn't agree with this more. It's bothered me forever. I love the concepts of super-speed characters, but rarely can handle the execution and the terrible writing that goes with it.
To say that Omni-Man got tagged by a robot when he has enhanced speed is the same as Red Rush getting tagged by Omni-Man despite having enhanced speed.
See it's different. One is reflex and one is speed. U can move your hand fast enough to catch a fly or a fast paced ball but can't run with the same speed. And that reflex action doesn't need u to see and hold. Just from side view u can do that that's how Omni Man got a hold of red rush and yeah it was stupid of Red to fight him
Let’s just say red rush is faster than Omniman. He let him throw a mean punch, which did nothing, and then caught it because red rush had to take a breath. You’re forgetting endurance. Speedsters can get tired, slow down, and get caught off guard like every other human. Just because someone has a top speed doesn’t mean they’re always moving that fast
I have a problem with how inconsistently speedsters are portrayed for plot convenience. But using Omni-Man vs Red Rush as an example is a weak argument.
Most speedsters can go faster than light. But if you go faster than light, then, You wouldnt be able to see anything. The light would be to slow to reach your eyes.
And yet this is never a problem, i get dc's speedsters because of the Speed force, but everyone else, plot holes
No superman analog is slow. They all have super reaction and are capable of stupid speeds. while inconsistent their powers are often canonical as fast as soeedsters. Superman traveling so fast he turns back time *broken.
Omni Man destroying the flaxan planet *broken.
Because Homelander is a superman analog we naturally assign supes *broken speed to him as well. Hyperion, Sentry, and on and on. Technically you are right but writers nerf powers all the time so the story can happen. I mean Supes is actually way smarter than bats, but bats is always defacto leader of jla...
I think certain moves/conditions can at least make it somewhat harder for speedsters.
Condition example: icey floor.
Move example (if strong enough): stomping or lifting ground, or breaking ground in a way that is just uneven enough to trip up said speedster.
The small amount of horizontal force supplied by floor friction is insignificant next to the forces applied by running in a gentle curve at 1000 mph. The speedster shouldn't even notice the difference between an icy floor and a floor covered in sandpaper.
Also, ice is slippery because of the film of water melting on top of it... but speedsters can run on the ocean just fine. Solid ice, if it's too cold to melt, is basically just another rock.
@stevenscott2136 oh, ok, then what about the other option I mentioned, with breaking the ground, rendering it uneven?
he just could take something sharp and pierce omni man eyes. But hey…..
You have a lot of good points, however speedsters solving all the problems would make for a really shitty story and it wouldn't sell well or make money.
A-Train is afraid of homelander, which is why he was constantly getting bullied. Also Homelander's top speed is Mach 2, and A-Train's top speed is Mach 1.8.
As for Red Rush dying, It's either he didn't see Omni-Man's hand, or Omni-man's hand moved a lot faster than he expected it to.
Quicksilver, he PUSHED hawkeye. He didn't pick them up and move them, he could only get there in time to push them.
Apocalypse is a busted mutant who could rival Charles Xavier. It's fair to assume can think fast enough to catch Quicksilver.
Phoenix is busted and can read minds.
There is no defense for CW Flash, he sucked.
The whole point of the ending of The Flash was that without Superman, they would always lose, no matter what. Even if they had kryptonite. Plus, even if they COULD find kryptonite, it would take wayyyyy too long, and by the time they came back, Supergirl would be dead and Batman would be dead. Hell, the world engine probably would have started lasering the planet.
I think it's a stupid idea to bring a younger flash who has BARELY a day's worth of experience being the flash into a fight for the fate of the world, since he has basically no idea how to fight or to use his powers, however. That movie was ass.
TLDR speedsters are nerfed bc itd make for a really bad story if they just solved all the problems