Yes guys I understand that these other character have some form of super speed. But they are not shown to have consistent speed reaction. Omni-Man has been shown to have speed reaction before but then he will get hit by a robot, or when he was hit by members of the guardians. If he could catch Red Rush's hand then he should never be able to be hit.
Yah, that's always been an issue with feats related to a lot of OP characters. It's why I don't read Superman, because he should never be hit, and Darkseid shouldn't ever lose either. In Onmimans case, hes 400some billion FTL, he could see Red Rush easy, but being able to hit him would likely require some foresight due to the acceleration needed for Smart Atoms to build up.
I completely understand where you're coming from but you gotta understand that issue not only goes for Speedster's but ALL types of powerful characters. Characters that can hold black holes are all of a sudden overpowered by some city level villain. Characters that can control molecules all of a sudden can't stop some rando. Characters who can LITERALLY do whatever they want get beaten up like it's nothing. It's a problem that's unfortunately been around for a long time. Hopefully people like you will bring more attention to it so more consistent stories can be written. 😁👍
I think they were trying to do a thing where he was waiting for red rush to punch a certain area with his arm ready to grab that area instinctively. He can move fast but doesn't have the brain speed to react in the moment so he has to think and prepare before hand. Some inner monologue would of really made his speed reaction make more sense.
@@Velocity_YT he's not. ATrain move Hughie so fast that Homelander couldn't see or hear it. Then again, Homelanders feats are so inconsistent. He can see through anything but Zinc and still couldn't hit Hughie crawling in vents. Do his eye beams block his line of sight? If so, no reason he couldn't fly up and one shot.
And with most oppositions, you don't even need to be faster than light, just faster than a neuron. No one can hit you if their brain signals are statues compared to you.
There is at least an excuse for the DC Speedsters, they purposefully slow down their perception as to not have everything be constantly running in slow motions. They also zone out while travelling as to not feel like they are taking ages during their use of super speed. Pretty smart IMO, because I definitely wouldn't be trying to focus all the time if EVERYTHING was playing at 100x slow mo.
while true most of the time, this shouldnt be a thing in scenarios when fighting for your life, thats when they should be fully focusing to avoid making mistakes. i mean, how many times are they gonna get caught off guard before they learn that they should keep full focus throughout the whole battle?
@@lytebluestudios Not really. Perception of time and speed of conscious thought isn't the same thing. In fact your brain can increase the speed of conscious thought when you are doing something engaging and entertaining, but you will feel like time flies by. What speedsters need is vastly altered perception of time, to prevent them from getting bored.
@@libertyprime1614 can you elaborate on that, I didn't get it really. Any other speedster should be able to react and see everything in slow motion or otherwise they will stumble every time running
@@ueiddd Yes, speedsters need to be able to think faster, they need increased speed of conscious thought, but it doesn't mean their perception of time must change. My point is that our perception of time is independent to the speed of conscious thought. Einstein's explained it better “sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it feels like a minute; sit on a hot stove for a minute, and it feels like many hours. That's relativity.”? This is an example of how perception of time can be altered without affecting the speed of conscious thought. If that didn't help imagine you are doing a very boring task for an hour, your mind not into it, you are not into it, and it isn't particularly hard just boring, compare it to the hour of playing your favourite game or other activity, which is very engaging. Without using a clock, if asked to estimate how much time passed after each activity people will overestimate time wasted on the boring task and underestimate time for the game, despite the fact that your brain is probably more stimulated playing the game, and processed more information for the same time.
I agree. Every time a speedster gets punched in the face by a non-speedster, I am confused. In the flash tv show, Barry was moving so fast, he made an explosion last an entire episode, yet he can’t get out of the way of a punch
Dash from the Incredibles moves faster than you give him credit for. For example, he would have had to move around 650 mph to be able to place the tack on his teacher's chair without the camera catching his actions.
Omni man is close to as fast as Red Rush, and what he did was notice that RR was hitting him from his blind spot every time so he knew where he’d be attacking next, that’s why he caught him without looking
While true, Red Rush is still shown in the same episode as being capable to run home change clothes and return. It doesn't really matter if his home was down the road, he's shown as being a lot faster than what Omniman did. My dude spent from his point of view hours for all we know and the only thing he could think about doing was hit him in the chest. Its just outright disrespectful. From a narrative standpoint, if your point was to make the main villain outsmart a speedster, that was just careless.
@@fullestauto8912not only that but red rush,also blocked omniman's punch, they need to at least put a science expert as a director whenever making a speedster character. It's crazy,even if omni man was 95% as fast as red rush,still shouldn't be able to touch him
@@zethembegallant2060 It's just logic. People will rationalize what they see or what is a reflection of their desired outcome. It's part and parcel of the problem. People forget that these..."characters" are just something that someone pulled out of their ass and placed in an arbitrarily defined situation...to tell a story. That's it. Everything that's written can be arbitrarily changed at a whim...because it's all pulled from someone's ass. That's the power of being a creator. People used to understand that. Now? Not so much. There is no reason for Omni Man to even touch RR other than that's what the writer wanted to have happen. Period. But see how OP rationalized it? People were smarter once.
@@fullestauto8912 Think of dbz logic how characters are punching as fast as light yet we see every one of their moves omniman was fast enough to react to his moves it's just that they couldn't show it on super speed otherwise you wouldn't know what happened
Omni-man can fly at faster than light speeds. He may actually be capable of faster speeds than Red Rush. What gives Red Rush the edge is that he thinks a lot faster than Omni-man. But Omni-man only has to get lucky once.
Here’s something that could make sense. Acceleration. Obviously for speed, you first need to start up as seen with the A-Train clip where he isn’t moving quickly at first but once he gets up and running, he moves lightning fast out. For any speedster, they need to first accelerate. This line of thinking could theoretically apply to fast reaction speeds too as they need to accelerate their thinking if you can understand what I'm putting down. Though, you can really chalk up all failures of speedsters to poor writing that makes it extremely inconsistent in terms of how their powers exactly work…
The thing I really dislike about speedsters, well besides how overpowered it is to move at the speed of light, is their ability to start and stop on a dime. Nice that the Boys seemed to actually give some thought to that.
to be fair the nerf every other power in this same way, like they'll have a character with super strength (which has to be paired with super durability otherwise they wouldn't survive their own attacks) but they get injured by normal stuff like a brick hitting them or something
That’s exactly what i thought. In the Flash series he outrun the explosion of a atomic bomb! The world is (almost) standing still for him and the other speedsters. How can someone who isn’t a speedster even hit him?
I have a terrible idea for how to balance a speedster in a superhero story: don't. Go the comedy rout and make every one else on the superhero team incompetent wildly incompetent in new and creative ways and constantly need to be saved by the speedster.
There was an issue of The Flash comic where he was in a theater watching a movie and felt pressure on the back of his neck , everything froze around him and when he grabbed at what was pushing on his neck , it was a bullet there was a shooter firing at the movie goers . He got up collected the bullets in the air so they wouldn't strike anyone . Apparently his reflexes kick in and he goes into Super speed automatically . Why Pietro was killed by gun fire , always surprised me . Thanks
omniman wasnt focusing on red rush at first but after red rush saved the guardians multiple times he realized red rush should be the first to go and thats where red rush made the mistake of attacking omniman and omniman was fast enough to react to him. red rush shouldve stayed with the role of supporting the guardians and bailing them when they are in danger instead of attacking omniman where he knows he cant hurt him.
My big thing with speedsters is that they generally don't have invulnerability or enhanced durability, so how can they survive hitting something at the speeds they do? They should receive the same force put into the blow themselves. So if the Flash punched someone, especially a Kryptonian at a speed where the world appears frozen he should destroy his entire arm.
The Flash actually wouldn't destroy his arm since he has a speed force barrier/ aura that protects him from turning into a mushy pancake like normal humans would. That's why he's able to do crazy stunts like punching people who have invincibility. Also if you look up one of The Flash's moves, one of his abilities is called the Infinite Mass Punch.
Part of ANY power-set is "not harmed by own power". Otherwise, all superhero stories would take place in the hospital. Doctor: "Mr. Allen here friction-burned all his skin off. Mr. Summers over there has no eyelids. Mr. Parker centrifuged his intestines out of his rectum while swinging across Times Square. Ms. Grey crushed her own brain while trying to lift a car with it."
The flash has a speed force aura that protects him and the world around him if anything moves that fast the earth would burst into flames but other speedsters don't have a comic explanation
@@white_morphsplays8139yeah but the speed force doesn’t protect him from that. There was a moment where he punched a woman and broke his hand because she was too durable. And in the show Barry punched his bully and he broke his hand because he hardened his skin. Either way it goes the speed force is inconsistent as heck.
Very much agree! Speedsters as depicted are simply too fast for anything to be a challenge - so the auteurs cheat and fudge, which is extremely annoying! far better to consistently depict speedsters in a more limited way, perhaps only achieving the highest speeds after prolonged periods of acceleration. This would allow for all the faster-than-light time wimey stuff under special circumstances, but generally show that they cannot immediately act at insane speeds, instead requiring time (or some other boosting resource) to build it up. At 200mph, there's more drama in whether or not they can get to the place / do the thing fast enough, so that adds drama too!
In many iterations of the comics, the speedsters actually have to build up their speed via some type of acceleration, including their reaction times. Just because you can see something in slow motion doesn't mean you are physically ready or able to react at that speed automatically. Also when one deliberately forces themselves to be slower, it dulls their reaction times as well.
your argument is "they could just move out the way" but when your punching someone your whole body is putting weight and momentum into the punch and so its kinda like getting locked in an animation which would leave them open.
But couldnt you also simply re-direct your movement? It makes sense that the weight and momentum would carry on but assuming that all parts of the speedster is fast (and not just their arms and legs), as a speedster moving/thinking at a super speed simply redirect their momentum enough to dogde? Omni-mans grab for example: red rush didnt have to pull his punch back (which would obviously be difficult because of momentum), he simply needed to move his arm slightly lower or higher which, as a person who sees everything in slow motion could very well do
@@sesamesprinklesThe problem with that is that Omni Man might’ve still grabbed him because he’s a highly skilled fighter with instincts and can take a hit just to get ahold of Red if necessary. Red’s best strategy would had to have been to get everyone out of that small space ASAP and buy them at least a few minutes to gather themselves before trying to take on someone that dangerous.
Absolutely no one who knows how to throw a competent punch does so like you described. That right there is a hay maker. You do have to put weight behind the punch but not your whole body weight and momentum behind it. You can still punch plenty hard without doing some kinda slow heavy duty falcon punch you have to heavily commit to. In fact most of the power from a decent punch can come from the snap.
If a realistic speedster touches you while on slow Mo, it would be catastrophic. Their fingers alone would be like a bullet fired from the a gun piercing through your skin. Getting punched multiple times would be equivalent to getting hit with a grapeshot from a canon.
I agree with your explanations! I think speedsters are super powerful because of two reasons: 1. Their speed to me is more like a control over time. The faster the speed, the greater the control over "time." Hevk, the onky way to beat anyone who messes up time is to have control over time. 2. Their resilience. I think this is rarely mentioned, but speedsters need to have a strong body, or the acceleration/deceleration will kill them. Imagine when Flash is breaking after his run, to most humans, it would have a whiplash or concussion. The faster the speed, the stronger the body! It is a pity most writers dilute speedsters to jusg been fast and that is it...
I'm more bothered by the character being a moron than by the writers having to bend physics. One of the early Flash episodes had Flash specifically told "don't make eye contact" with Rainbow Raider. So what does Barry do, like 20 seconds later? Slam RR up against a wall and do the "in your face" thing, and predictably get mind-controlled, exactly as Cisco had warned him not to. I suppose his idiocy DOES explain why he would hook up with his sister...
If this is a series we need a problem with telekinetics. Absolutely no reason why someone with telekinesis couldn't just stop anyone's body from functioning. Air getting to lungs, blood circulation, etc. Nah, I'm gonna use this super power to throw rocks at you.
@BaysTalks05 like, why do Darth Vader and any of the Jedi not ever have a force choke battle? Seems like an obvious contest of who is stronger in the force... Or just who has more oxygen in their blood...
@@Loreweavver well for Star Wars it is basically explained like this. Force users can protect themselves from other force users influencing them with the force, using the force. And the further away something is, the harder it is to influence it with the force. So the guy protecting his own body with the force, has the home advantage. So they usually resort to throwing stuff at each other, like random objects, lighting or basically a shockwave, with the force push The second thing is, that any and all force use requires focus, wich detracts from their ability to react to other things. Like getting a Lightsabers swung at them, or getting shot at. The inverse is also true. So doing fancy tricks with the force during combat usually isn't a good idea. So they again rather resort to doing quick stuff, like throwing a rock or something.
@@Loreweavver spoon feeding it is. You know how people don't like getting choked? That's why they use their space magic not to get choked. Only insane people would agree on a choke battle. And as long as not both guys play nice, the second guy possibly doesn't get to choke the first guy, as the first guy is already swinging their lightsaber at the second guy. And if the space magic protection isn't strong enough, so that the second guy can choke the first guy effortlessly, the first guy already lost regardless. And however you fight the battle, the force always decides the outcome anyway, because that is how that universe works. You could even agree on an arm wrestling match, doesn't matter.
Omni-Man is fast too, not as fast as Red Rush of course, but...Omni-Man got lucky. Once he got hold of Red Rush Omni-Man's strength took over. Now, I do believe that you are correct. Speedsters should also be super-strong and very durable in order for their bodies to survive the extreme stress of moving that fast. Bullets shouldn't hurt them either, because running into a pebble in mid air kicked up by a truck would act like a bullet.
Yes in most cases speedsters are untouchable its just that a suprise attack is still possible, if they simply just don't notice something then they can't stop it.
You just gained a subscriber with the notifications bell on, why? Because you told absolutely 100% truth!!! Idk why.. but many form of cartoon animation and media movies or TV series love to disrespect the life out of speedsters. Even in comic books to some degree it doesn’t make sense. Anybody who has superspeed is literally God Tier. Yes even Dash from the Incredibles. Because that’s the heat maxed out at 300 and 500 he’s not fashionably but he’s getting to that level. Well realistically as he is growing his powers and elevate and grow too. So by the time he’s like 18 he should be well at least relative or faster than a speeding bullet he should be on the Mach levels & up. Super Speed is Simply God Tier. With little to no weaknesses.
Omniman can fly at insane speeds, but he clearly isn't super fast in any other capacity (in the show anyway, I don't know the comics). Him beating Red Rush is the only time in the entire show he displays any kind of speed-react feat.
If I were to ever write my own comic script, there would either have to be ZERO speedsters, or they would have to be weak af to make them viable. Literally super speed beats so many other things just because "already done, gone to lunch" should be a thing for every speedster. AoU was the worst I've ever seen a speedster at. Then the current era of X-Men cinematics has him being ridiculously OP as he should be. The whole reason speedsters get treated the way they do is because otherwise there'd be no plot left to push forward, because everything would get done in ten LITERAL seconds, and then it would just be the fluff of hanging out off duty after the big crisis is over.
Also Homeland isn't slow, remember the scene when Butcher sets off explosives in the house and wakes up at a completely different house and sees his wife. Homelander and Omniman are fast enough to catch their respected speedster off guard.
And even if A-Train is faster, there's the psychological aspect of A-Train being intimidated by Homelander. So even if he is faster, he might not think he is
@@NLT1734 The thing people forget is that fear is the highest power you can instill in someone. Once you do that, they'll likely never have the courage to challenge you. Homelander instilled a lot of fear into A-Train.
Absolutely agree! Heres how I'd make a live action Flash. 1. Gets powers but can only move at Dash speeds. Has a hard time controlling it. Causes accidental damage and seen as a novice/danger. Has a small fan group that sees him heroic. Randomly has "time in a bottle" moments that are more detrimental than helpful. (Ex. Trying to move someone breaks their arm, running into debris hurts him, etc.) Villians: Mirror Master, Heat Wave, Gorilla Grodd. (Perfect lower level villains) 2. Gets faster over time, learns to control & master his Dash like speed. Becomes a competent hero. Time in a bottle moments happen less frequently but still detrimental. Villians: Captian cold (He can slow flash down. Time in a Bottle moment is the key to defeating him) 3. Starts learning to control time in a bottle movement. Even accessing it at will. Villian: Golden Glider (unlike captain cold, he uses time in a bottle moment *at will* to defeat golden glider). 4. Full speed control. However, now learning the unique abilities that come with the speed force. Villian: Reverse Flash (perfect villain to test everything flash learned while building on the speed force) 5. Mastery over speed force. Joins the jusitce league? Villians: zoom, Godspeed, Darkseid_Justice League only (Could be main villians. Or supplemental villains that prevent flash from fully using the speed force. nerfing him when necessary). *Ex. Godspeed purposely siphoning speed while flash is in the justice league. Is addressed in the JL epilogue. leading to a solo arc of flash vs godspeed/Zoom.*
Red Rush and Green Ghost really did have no excuse to die in that fight, one is Fast the other can't be touched, Maneuvering and battlefield control are their main fighting styles, how did they screw up so badly? Because the writers said so.
makkari and dash are perfect examples of how speedsters should punch. They don’t take random pauses in between each punch or they don’t randomly turn start punching in normal speed once they reach the person they are fighting
I agree. One thing that requires though is that they are paying attention. If they’re asleep, they’re vulnerable. Likewise anything supersonic coming at them, they would have to notice it visually since there would be no sound to hear before the impact. So as long as they compulsively check their surroundings visually, they’re pretty invulnerable. Attacks that move at the speed of light, like a laser, would likewise not be perceivable until it already hit them. Even if they could somehow move faster than light, they wouldn’t see a beam of light before it reached them.
If you want to be physically accurate, the second Barry starts moving a nuke goes off due to him colliding with air particles at relativistic speeds, killing him and everybody in a 10 mile range instantly. If you want to be slightly less physically accurate and give him durability, a nuke still goes off (or a continuous series of nukes), but he survives it. If you want to be less physically accurate still, Barry phases through air, has insane durability but his punches should be like hydrogen bombs in terms of strength. They seem to pay SOME attention to the kinetic energy a speedster's hits can carry, but they are severely, and I mean SEVERELY downplaying it. They have to make it make no sense, otherwise the movie ends in 5 minutes. Reaction time is one thing but the sheer power is also dismissed.
Yeah the problem with speedsters is that writers either don't understand how speed works from a scientific basis, or they make the power more of a On-Off thing and the hero an idiot. But when they show people like Quicksilver and how they ALWAYS see the world around them it is inexcusable to just have a "but he fumbled" moment. The only times when speedsters can lose should be because they just wanted to die
Remember when A train first fought Kimiko?? He was insanely powerful. So was Kimiko but now she dies all the time like a gimmick lol so dumb how weak A train is now
The actual fundamental flaw with speedsters is with the exception of The Flash. When you go over a certain speed, you need to push the molecules of air out of your way, which causes friction. Speedsters with set themselves on fire all the time Every action over a certain speed, even the movement of a fist, would cause a sonic boom shattering windows and bones within the immediate vicinity. The Flash gets around this give me the magic of the Speed Force negating all of these problems with going super fast.
"Is she able to think as super speed?" Yes actually. In Marvel the speed of thought IS the fastest thing there is. Xavier once had a telepathic conversation with Lilandra who was over 200 million light years away as if she was in the same room with him. In order to do that, his thoughts had to be moving at literally quadrillions of times the speed of light. Jean Grey is a stronger telepath than he is. So yes, she can think at super speed. I do agree that the MCU wasted Quicksilver though. Most of your video you are ignoring the powers of the other character. It is shown that Omni-Man himself can move at many times the speed of light as well. So, while Red Rush may have been faster than him, it wasn't by much.
My problem is more the fact that they don't make the other characters consistent. If they are shown to have super speed once, then they should always have it.
Speed of thought is one thing, being able to SEE him move at that speed is another. You can think as fast as you want, but light still needs to hit objects, bounce off, hit your eyes, then your eyes still need to send that signal to your brain. Let’s not forget your eyes also have a a very limited frame rate so you would never see him moving.
@@hannibalhector3719 Dude, did you really talk about light needing to hit objects with comics and characters that can more many times the speed of light? That's hilarious.
I liked the DCAU Flash where if he used too much of the speedforce he literally gets sucked into it and eventually gets atomized if nobody is there to immediately pull him out.
Finally Someone Made a video On This i Was Always Wondered How GENE GREY,SUPERMAN, APOCALYPSE, would have beaten Speedster It just makes nosense specially FLASH he is the most powerful Superhero I think He can even Beat Superman
You make some valid points. When you are referring to characters like apocalypse and phoenix, these characters have powers that are destructive on a molecular level and sub atomic level when referring to Jean as Phoenix. This would explain more of why they are able to stop speedsters. Scarlett Witch is another character that has this ability to combat speedsters with an addition of her probability influence and she is no where near as fast as Homelander or Omni man.
most of this can be explained away as the super speed needing to be turned on or built up, even if it's a always on thing, most of them would have adapted a off botton to not go insane living a eternity in a second, not the best reason, but a reason none the less.
Maybe someone already said this, but the scene between A-Train and Blue Hawk from The Boys helps to put things in perspective a little bit. The downside of mostly spending time with The Seven is that you kind of forget how powerful each of them are, even in comparison to other supes, and that scene reminded you in a very visually and emotionally satisfying way.
He’s completely right, it’s all about spicing up the show or movie , one of flashes biggest villains is a guy with a freeze ray , he would lock him up before the thought reach his body to press the ray
Flora from the show I'm a Virgo on Amazon Prime does a good job at portraying what life as a speedster would really be like. She sees all of life around her in excruciatingly slow motion. It's extremely agonizing for her
I couldn't agree with this more. It's bothered me forever. I love the concepts of super-speed characters, but rarely can handle the execution and the terrible writing that goes with it.
The problem was making these characters so fast in the first place. Same can be said for superman and many other heroes who could theoretically solve every crime on the planet single handedly if they wanted to.
I think in my headcanon is speedsters use up a lot of energy and focus maintaining their speed. You know how like fighters gas out, play it safe for a bit and then recover? I imagine its like that. Red Rush was probably pretty drained and psychologically busted when omni-man was at his best.
On the jean grey thing, how do you know she cant think that fast, and move the platforms just takes her mind to process it, heck, it would be a reflex to the approaching person. Same with apocalypse, if they are so smart and strong, and familiar with powers, i am sure he might figure what is going on. Not saying they dont do speedaters weird of course, but in some cases it still works.
As the saying goes "Speedsters suffer from bad writing." Because EVEN IF you wanted to have an insane Speedster you can look at Metro Man, the guy went on a whole self discovery journey before the constrained power of the Sun "hit" him and decided to play it off as if it worked. He allowed Megamind to have his fun which was the only reason why someone that fast was able to have those situations...which is why these problems come from bad writing otherwise these type of characters are not only nearly untouchable but beyond broken.
what happens in the omni-man fight is best explained in the batman vs superman movie. that moment when flash takes off and as he gets close to superman we can see superman turning his eyes and slowly turning his head towards flash, it shows that superman, or omni man, is not as fast as the speedster, but fast enough that the speeder's speed in not totally overwhelming. basically, red rush against omni man is like dash against a normal human. the speed difference is simply not so big that omni man won't eventually catch him off guard.
I think one easy way to make speedster’s writing more consistent with all these is just by making them have to accelerate to their max speed (which means there’s still at least a a second or two where they aren’t faster than omni-man or homelander), and make it so there reaction speed has to be consciously slowed down, like when they’re running (this would explain why in situations where they’re just chilling lr believe they’re under no threat, something may still catch them off guard). And the boys does do the first one, which has always been a cool detail, where he has to get to speed, meaning theoretically homelander could catch him under certain situations due to his fast reaction
Red Rush aside, I usually chalk up them getting caught out is because for many heroes their abilities aren't always 'on'. Maybe using their ability uses energy so they don't necessarily see everything in slow motion, only when they choose to activate it.
Marv Wolfman, cocreator with George Perez of Raven, Cyborg, Starfire of the New Teen Titans, hated writing Flash and Kid Flash because he said if you took their powers to the logical conclusion, they would be untouchable gods. This is why they slowed Kid Flash down tremendously in the late 80s and had him replace Flash. Made him much more interesting.
idk how to say it, but for things as punching in the case of red rush, they need to stop enough to let the hit land and then get acceleration again, and they always need to suppress themselves punching and so, as even if they have super regeneration and extra durability if they hit too fast they can blow its own limb if they hit something to resistant
Speedsters also defacto have super strength. The amount of energy it takes to accelerate their mass to those speeds would outmatch just about any feat of characters with super strength.
Dash was able to be Flash fast. 'Remember the principal's office scene? "Coincidence? I think not!" I remember getting told about a comic book that came out in the 80s or 90s in which the heroes lived in a simulation to hone their clothing, and had to deal with real life consequences when they used their powers in reality. The speedster would burn his feet and flesh off of his body if he tried to run too fast without protective clothing, and I'm not sure if they gave him super reflexes and reaction time.
the only "in universe" explanation i have for speedsters getting beat so easily is that they cannot see in the dark or very dim light and so they are acting on slightly out of date information (like maybe a millisecond) because there has been insufficient light reflecting off the object in the current position to be visible to the speedster. and so they can respond effectively in the middle of an explosion or during gunfire because they can effectively from the out of date information based on velocity and position. this would be similar to a marching band that can remain in time even though they hear the sounds too late because they are trained to play their notes before they hear the beat of the leaders in front of them based on them hearing the previous beats. as long as the bullets and explosive particles move predictably based on the past position and velocity, the speedster can respond effectively by anticipating the current invisible position from the old visible positions. but when they are against an opponent that can make sudden changes in velocity (rapid acceleration in unknown directions) they cannot anticipate based off of the old information. bullets and shrapnel don't give speedsters trouble because those don't change velocity mid flight. but non-speedsters who can make sudden changes in velocity can beat speedsters since the speedsters are acting on slightly out of date information. i'm not saying this explanation makes sense and isnt full of holes. but i can't think of any better explanation. if someone has a better explanation i'm happy to hear it. but if people think this explanation is weak, they are just preaching to the choir.
You don't need to be as fast as someone to catch their punch. If you manage to anticipate their move and have good reflexes, you can get away with being a bit slower and not thinking as fast as them. If you're throwing a punch with all your strength, it's hard to stop it and retract it all of a sudden. It's the same for a speedster. Their own punches are too fast for even themselves to easily react to.
one fun idea I read somewhere else was giving peter his takedown scene of jean, then rewinding revealing she was reading his mind and having her counter him, only for him to recover, only for her to counter, etc etc and we can gradually return to normal speed watching these two carry out dozens ten hundreds then thousands of scenarios in a single moment until she finally wins, albeit drained, this would both show how overwhelmingly powerful the phoenix is while still giving peter the respect he'd earned in full by then
I think certain moves/conditions can at least make it somewhat harder for speedsters. Condition example: icey floor. Move example (if strong enough): stomping or lifting ground, or breaking ground in a way that is just uneven enough to trip up said speedster.
The small amount of horizontal force supplied by floor friction is insignificant next to the forces applied by running in a gentle curve at 1000 mph. The speedster shouldn't even notice the difference between an icy floor and a floor covered in sandpaper. Also, ice is slippery because of the film of water melting on top of it... but speedsters can run on the ocean just fine. Solid ice, if it's too cold to melt, is basically just another rock.
Agreed 100% I’ve bees saying this for years. Speedsters, especially the flash is the most powerful character ever created period. If he’s written properly he could obliterate any foe in an instant. Kingdom come flash is Godlike to the point he’s omnipresent. I guess that’s why speedsters like the Flash is always nerfed
Makkari literally put all the other characters to shame since she beat Ikaris who was similar to Homelander and yet she never got caught since she didn't allow it.
I guess A-Train would be vulnerable while sleeping, if he found himself being hunted by Homelander he'd struggle to find somewhere he could rest up and sleep without being found eventually. Considering homelander is also quite fast, and has x-ray vision etc. No need for him to go around obstacles during the pursuit.
this is why i really dislike speedsters, it always frustrates me. ive not played the latest suicide squad game(or is it a show?) but from the clips of cutscenes ive seen they are unable to kill flash because he is always hyper aware, they have as much if not more trouble with him as they have with superman. even a supersonic bullet from flashes blindzone isnt able to reach him. its funny that when they made him evil he became so much more powerful. there was one show where superspeed was done right, but my memory of that show is faint so i dont remember which, but there the individual had superspeed but not super speed thinking, so he was not op. was it heroes? i dont remember
I think Omniman has what DC’s Cheetah has going. Where they’re fast enough in reflexes to counter wonderwoman and supposedly flash if they were close combat. That doesn’t mean she’s outrunning either of them. So we consider reflex speed, and Rush’s drop in energy in each punch(the show did give one frame of static rush in a punch), it’s safe to say Omniman has all the ingredients to catch him as he did get hit one last time
There are probably many reasons for this. But the most obvious one is, that we could not have speedsters in our story if this did not happen. They would all be extremely boring because there would be no stakes. They could easily and quickly fix the problem and remove the danger.
Homelander has laser eyes. So even A-train faster he couldn't keep up with the speed of light. That means thar every time homelander looks directly at him A-train doesn't know when he decides to use lasers. And when he decide its hardly possible to catch laser halfway to the target (i mean A-train is fast, but not like Flash fast, from what i saw in the show). So only safe strategy for A-train is to always keep track of Homelanders head end eyes direction and constantly move aside from it. But Homelander can also laser him through the walls when A-train won't able to see him.
I think i echo a sentiment of someone else that Authors aren't physicists, their story tellers first and foremost. Realism isn't exactly the main focus of a lot of writers, especially not comics. I think their sentiment can easily be seen in Stan lee's frustration on "who would win" saying "whoever the author wants to win", meaning wither a speedster wins or not is based on wither the author built it that way. If you want things that way, thats fine. Write a fanfiction, that is what those are for. But authors tend ot have a good idea of why they written something the way they did, though we will rarely understand the thought processes that went into some decisions. Its safe to say a lot of the time it can be boiled down to theatrics, plot and rule of cool. Better to have the concept of a Speedster than not have them at all is my outlook.
The problem with Speedsders is, if we're talking able guys like Red Rush and Flash, was put into words by Mark Waid (former Flash writer). "In any fight hes in, if realistic, would be over in a literal second. Not very exciting." So, you're thinking, you just dont use them right? Or power them down a bit to make it more plausible to challenge them. But you already pointed out the problem with this in the video. Theyre an iconic power set. And superhero fan whos watching your superhero show will exspect to see them. DC sells millions of Flash comics a year. If you took him out of a show with the Justice League then ppl will cry. The curse of success.
The question there is, for how long does he need to make contact to transfer the force of his attack? Because there is such a thing as pulling your punches i.e when you make contact but pull your hand back before you can deliver the energy of your attack, channeling momentum into the target. Note the speed difference between 0:12 - 0:14 . Omniman is not standing still while Redrush is in slowmo mode, although Omniman is at full speed which is different from when he is just standing still. But that time Redrush needs to channel his own momentum into his attack is what can work against him to where he might perceive Ominman's hand, but he is already going in too hard to stop himself and gets caught. There is a difference between a quick jab and a full on right straight, one has follow-through in it to make it more powerful. So, if he stuck to quick jabs, he might've continued all day, but really doing no damage to Omniman. He needed to lean into his punches to even do minor damage to Omni man and that is how he got caught. Maybe, hahaha. Just trying to explain it 😄
Yes guys I understand that these other character have some form of super speed. But they are not shown to have consistent speed reaction. Omni-Man has been shown to have speed reaction before but then he will get hit by a robot, or when he was hit by members of the guardians. If he could catch Red Rush's hand then he should never be able to be hit.
Yah, that's always been an issue with feats related to a lot of OP characters. It's why I don't read Superman, because he should never be hit, and Darkseid shouldn't ever lose either.
In Onmimans case, hes 400some billion FTL, he could see Red Rush easy, but being able to hit him would likely require some foresight due to the acceleration needed for Smart Atoms to build up.
I completely understand where you're coming from but you gotta understand that issue not only goes for Speedster's but ALL types of powerful characters. Characters that can hold black holes are all of a sudden overpowered by some city level villain. Characters that can control molecules all of a sudden can't stop some rando. Characters who can LITERALLY do whatever they want get beaten up like it's nothing. It's a problem that's unfortunately been around for a long time. Hopefully people like you will bring more attention to it so more consistent stories can be written. 😁👍
I think they were trying to do a thing where he was waiting for red rush to punch a certain area with his arm ready to grab that area instinctively. He can move fast but doesn't have the brain speed to react in the moment so he has to think and prepare before hand. Some inner monologue would of really made his speed reaction make more sense.
Homlander is actually fast though. That's the thing. Yes A-Train is fast but I'm pretty sure Homlander is faster than him which makes no sense.
@@Velocity_YT he's not. ATrain move Hughie so fast that Homelander couldn't see or hear it. Then again, Homelanders feats are so inconsistent. He can see through anything but Zinc and still couldn't hit Hughie crawling in vents. Do his eye beams block his line of sight? If so, no reason he couldn't fly up and one shot.
A series be like "This speedster can move 5 times the speed of light" *Can't react an attack that moves at 40 MPH*
yeah
Choosing that criminal ju in the Flash movie instead of the guy from the TV series was why it blew so hard.
And with most oppositions, you don't even need to be faster than light, just faster than a neuron.
No one can hit you if their brain signals are statues compared to you.
@jocosesonata 😂
the logical conclusion is that the attack was not moving at just 40 mph
There is at least an excuse for the DC Speedsters, they purposefully slow down their perception as to not have everything be constantly running in slow motions. They also zone out while travelling as to not feel like they are taking ages during their use of super speed. Pretty smart IMO, because I definitely wouldn't be trying to focus all the time if EVERYTHING was playing at 100x slow mo.
while true most of the time, this shouldnt be a thing in scenarios when fighting for your life, thats when they should be fully focusing to avoid making mistakes. i mean, how many times are they gonna get caught off guard before they learn that they should keep full focus throughout the whole battle?
Everyone with superspeed should have this to some degree.
@@lytebluestudios Not really. Perception of time and speed of conscious thought isn't the same thing. In fact your brain can increase the speed of conscious thought when you are doing something engaging and entertaining, but you will feel like time flies by. What speedsters need is vastly altered perception of time, to prevent them from getting bored.
@@libertyprime1614 can you elaborate on that, I didn't get it really. Any other speedster should be able to react and see everything in slow motion or otherwise they will stumble every time running
@@ueiddd Yes, speedsters need to be able to think faster, they need increased speed of conscious thought, but it doesn't mean their perception of time must change.
My point is that our perception of time is independent to the speed of conscious thought.
Einstein's explained it better “sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it feels like a minute; sit on a hot stove for a minute, and it feels like many hours. That's relativity.”?
This is an example of how perception of time can be altered without affecting the speed of conscious thought.
If that didn't help imagine you are doing a very boring task for an hour, your mind not into it, you are not into it, and it isn't particularly hard just boring, compare it to the hour of playing your favourite game or other activity, which is very engaging.
Without using a clock, if asked to estimate how much time passed after each activity people will overestimate time wasted on the boring task and underestimate time for the game, despite the fact that your brain is probably more stimulated playing the game, and processed more information for the same time.
I agree. Every time a speedster gets punched in the face by a non-speedster, I am confused. In the flash tv show, Barry was moving so fast, he made an explosion last an entire episode, yet he can’t get out of the way of a punch
Dash from the Incredibles moves faster than you give him credit for. For example, he would have had to move around 650 mph to be able to place the tack on his teacher's chair without the camera catching his actions.
Yeah, and that was from a sitting position. 0-650, instantly.
@@fastral7769 it's his acceleration that's impressive
Maybe that is like his sprint. His normal solid pace would be a bit lower. One he could maintain. Maybe like 400mph
Yeah but that's a clear outlier. Every other portrayal of his speed is like, 200-300 mph.
Classroom cameras are not that fast. 30fps I presume. That's why the teacher was still having a hard time proving his point.
Omni man is close to as fast as Red Rush, and what he did was notice that RR was hitting him from his blind spot every time so he knew where he’d be attacking next, that’s why he caught him without looking
While true, Red Rush is still shown in the same episode as being capable to run home change clothes and return. It doesn't really matter if his home was down the road, he's shown as being a lot faster than what Omniman did. My dude spent from his point of view hours for all we know and the only thing he could think about doing was hit him in the chest. Its just outright disrespectful.
From a narrative standpoint, if your point was to make the main villain outsmart a speedster, that was just careless.
@@fullestauto8912not only that but red rush,also blocked omniman's punch, they need to at least put a science expert as a director whenever making a speedster character.
It's crazy,even if omni man was 95% as fast as red rush,still shouldn't be able to touch him
@@zethembegallant2060 It's just logic. People will rationalize what they see or what is a reflection of their desired outcome. It's part and parcel of the problem.
People forget that these..."characters" are just something that someone pulled out of their ass and placed in an arbitrarily defined situation...to tell a story.
That's it. Everything that's written can be arbitrarily changed at a whim...because it's all pulled from someone's ass.
That's the power of being a creator.
People used to understand that.
Now? Not so much. There is no reason for Omni Man to even touch RR other than that's what the writer wanted to have happen. Period.
But see how OP rationalized it?
People were smarter once.
@@fullestauto8912 Think of dbz logic how characters are punching as fast as light yet we see every one of their moves omniman was fast enough to react to his moves it's just that they couldn't show it on super speed otherwise you wouldn't know what happened
Omni-man can fly at faster than light speeds. He may actually be capable of faster speeds than Red Rush. What gives Red Rush the edge is that he thinks a lot faster than Omni-man. But Omni-man only has to get lucky once.
Here’s something that could make sense.
Acceleration.
Obviously for speed, you first need to start up as seen with the A-Train clip where he isn’t moving quickly at first but once he gets up and running, he moves lightning fast out. For any speedster, they need to first accelerate.
This line of thinking could theoretically apply to fast reaction speeds too as they need to accelerate their thinking if you can understand what I'm putting down.
Though, you can really chalk up all failures of speedsters to poor writing that makes it extremely inconsistent in terms of how their powers exactly work…
That’s actually a really smart rule for speedsters.
The thing I really dislike about speedsters, well besides how overpowered it is to move at the speed of light, is their ability to start and stop on a dime. Nice that the Boys seemed to actually give some thought to that.
to be fair the nerf every other power in this same way, like they'll have a character with super strength (which has to be paired with super durability otherwise they wouldn't survive their own attacks) but they get injured by normal stuff like a brick hitting them or something
That’s exactly what i thought. In the Flash series he outrun the explosion of a atomic bomb! The world is (almost) standing still for him and the other speedsters. How can someone who isn’t a speedster even hit him?
Exactly. Characters with super speed are op and should almost never be able to be touched.
I have a terrible idea for how to balance a speedster in a superhero story: don't. Go the comedy rout and make every one else on the superhero team incompetent wildly incompetent in new and creative ways and constantly need to be saved by the speedster.
There was an issue of The Flash comic where he was in a theater watching a movie and felt pressure on the back of his neck , everything froze around him and when he grabbed at what was pushing on his neck , it was a bullet there was a shooter firing at the movie goers . He got up collected the bullets in the air so they wouldn't strike anyone . Apparently his reflexes kick in and he goes into Super speed automatically . Why Pietro was killed by gun fire , always surprised me . Thanks
I remember that one. Classic!!
prieto is not flash
simply as
Especially cause quick silver follows red rush rules. He’s always going that fast. Hence why he’s an ass
@@kero232 Pietro is still faster than a bullet
I can't recall the issue no. Can you tell me, if I need to read that? I have read a lot Flash comic book but I might have missed this particular one
CW flash's weakness is the desire to STOP AND TALK
ollie points this out too
So glad somebody has finally voiced the same thoughts I have!
omniman wasnt focusing on red rush at first but after red rush saved the guardians multiple times he realized red rush should be the first to go and thats where red rush made the mistake of attacking omniman and omniman was fast enough to react to him.
red rush shouldve stayed with the role of supporting the guardians and bailing them when they are in danger instead of attacking omniman where he knows he cant hurt him.
They make them do the only thing they couldn't realistically do: carry anyone to safety without killing them
X-Men silver did point that out in the magneto prison escape I think? He held the back of his head, told him something and went full throttle
The “Avengers” Quicksilver thing still pisses me off to this day. I guess we didn’t see that coming. 😏
My big thing with speedsters is that they generally don't have invulnerability or enhanced durability, so how can they survive hitting something at the speeds they do? They should receive the same force put into the blow themselves.
So if the Flash punched someone, especially a Kryptonian at a speed where the world appears frozen he should destroy his entire arm.
They have to have some form a durability because their skin would melt off when running if not
The Flash actually wouldn't destroy his arm since he has a speed force barrier/ aura that protects him from turning into a mushy pancake like normal humans would. That's why he's able to do crazy stunts like punching people who have invincibility. Also if you look up one of The Flash's moves, one of his abilities is called the Infinite Mass Punch.
Part of ANY power-set is "not harmed by own power". Otherwise, all superhero stories would take place in the hospital.
Doctor: "Mr. Allen here friction-burned all his skin off. Mr. Summers over there has no eyelids. Mr. Parker centrifuged his intestines out of his rectum while swinging across Times Square. Ms. Grey crushed her own brain while trying to lift a car with it."
The flash has a speed force aura that protects him and the world around him if anything moves that fast the earth would burst into flames but other speedsters don't have a comic explanation
@@white_morphsplays8139yeah but the speed force doesn’t protect him from that. There was a moment where he punched a woman and broke his hand because she was too durable. And in the show Barry punched his bully and he broke his hand because he hardened his skin. Either way it goes the speed force is inconsistent as heck.
bro, if Jean grey would receive that hit from a speedster character, Bro many simps would get hate on Quicksilver 💀
Speedsters ain't the only fast people ya know that's how omni man got his arm . Speedsters are just the fastest
Very much agree! Speedsters as depicted are simply too fast for anything to be a challenge - so the auteurs cheat and fudge, which is extremely annoying! far better to consistently depict speedsters in a more limited way, perhaps only achieving the highest speeds after prolonged periods of acceleration. This would allow for all the faster-than-light time wimey stuff under special circumstances, but generally show that they cannot immediately act at insane speeds, instead requiring time (or some other boosting resource) to build it up. At 200mph, there's more drama in whether or not they can get to the place / do the thing fast enough, so that adds drama too!
In many iterations of the comics, the speedsters actually have to build up their speed via some type of acceleration, including their reaction times. Just because you can see something in slow motion doesn't mean you are physically ready or able to react at that speed automatically.
Also when one deliberately forces themselves to be slower, it dulls their reaction times as well.
You forgot the speedster in the Eternals, that was a well done portrayal in using speed in a fight!
your argument is "they could just move out the way" but when your punching someone your whole body is putting weight and momentum into the punch and so its kinda like getting locked in an animation which would leave them open.
that is a good point
But couldnt you also simply re-direct your movement? It makes sense that the weight and momentum would carry on but assuming that all parts of the speedster is fast (and not just their arms and legs), as a speedster moving/thinking at a super speed simply redirect their momentum enough to dogde? Omni-mans grab for example: red rush didnt have to pull his punch back (which would obviously be difficult because of momentum), he simply needed to move his arm slightly lower or higher which, as a person who sees everything in slow motion could very well do
@@sesamesprinklesThe problem with that is that Omni Man might’ve still grabbed him because he’s a highly skilled fighter with instincts and can take a hit just to get ahold of Red if necessary. Red’s best strategy would had to have been to get everyone out of that small space ASAP and buy them at least a few minutes to gather themselves before trying to take on someone that dangerous.
Absolutely no one who knows how to throw a competent punch does so like you described. That right there is a hay maker. You do have to put weight behind the punch but not your whole body weight and momentum behind it. You can still punch plenty hard without doing some kinda slow heavy duty falcon punch you have to heavily commit to. In fact most of the power from a decent punch can come from the snap.
If we go by your argument then speedsters would cause innumerable casualties or deaths every time they're speeding on the road 😅
If a realistic speedster touches you while on slow Mo, it would be catastrophic. Their fingers alone would be like a bullet fired from the a gun piercing through your skin. Getting punched multiple times would be equivalent to getting hit with a grapeshot from a canon.
I agree with your explanations!
I think speedsters are super powerful because of two reasons:
1. Their speed to me is more like a control over time. The faster the speed, the greater the control over "time." Hevk, the onky way to beat anyone who messes up time is to have control over time.
2. Their resilience. I think this is rarely mentioned, but speedsters need to have a strong body, or the acceleration/deceleration will kill them. Imagine when Flash is breaking after his run, to most humans, it would have a whiplash or concussion. The faster the speed, the stronger the body!
It is a pity most writers dilute speedsters to jusg been fast and that is it...
I'm more bothered by the character being a moron than by the writers having to bend physics. One of the early Flash episodes had Flash specifically told "don't make eye contact" with Rainbow Raider. So what does Barry do, like 20 seconds later? Slam RR up against a wall and do the "in your face" thing, and predictably get mind-controlled, exactly as Cisco had warned him not to.
I suppose his idiocy DOES explain why he would hook up with his sister...
even the fact they have super speed SHOULD = the super strength required, makes no sense they ever get hurt
I agree with this entire video.
If this is a series we need a problem with telekinetics.
Absolutely no reason why someone with telekinesis couldn't just stop anyone's body from functioning. Air getting to lungs, blood circulation, etc.
Nah, I'm gonna use this super power to throw rocks at you.
i think a series would make for some good videos
@BaysTalks05 like, why do Darth Vader and any of the Jedi not ever have a force choke battle?
Seems like an obvious contest of who is stronger in the force... Or just who has more oxygen in their blood...
@@Loreweavver well for Star Wars it is basically explained like this. Force users can protect themselves from other force users influencing them with the force, using the force. And the further away something is, the harder it is to influence it with the force. So the guy protecting his own body with the force, has the home advantage. So they usually resort to throwing stuff at each other, like random objects, lighting or basically a shockwave, with the force push The second thing is, that any and all force use requires focus, wich detracts from their ability to react to other things. Like getting a Lightsabers swung at them, or getting shot at. The inverse is also true. So doing fancy tricks with the force during combat usually isn't a good idea. So they again rather resort to doing quick stuff, like throwing a rock or something.
@clancykohl thanks nerd. None of that actually addresses the question.
A force choke out would be the most basic test of who the force likes more.
@@Loreweavver spoon feeding it is. You know how people don't like getting choked? That's why they use their space magic not to get choked. Only insane people would agree on a choke battle. And as long as not both guys play nice, the second guy possibly doesn't get to choke the first guy, as the first guy is already swinging their lightsaber at the second guy. And if the space magic protection isn't strong enough, so that the second guy can choke the first guy effortlessly, the first guy already lost regardless. And however you fight the battle, the force always decides the outcome anyway, because that is how that universe works. You could even agree on an arm wrestling match, doesn't matter.
Omni-Man is fast too, not as fast as Red Rush of course, but...Omni-Man got lucky. Once he got hold of Red Rush Omni-Man's strength took over.
Now, I do believe that you are correct. Speedsters should also be super-strong and very durable in order for their bodies to survive the extreme stress of moving that fast. Bullets shouldn't hurt them either, because running into a pebble in mid air kicked up by a truck would act like a bullet.
FINALLY!!! Someone said it. It pisses me off how these speedsters never seem to be fast enough for the plot jeopardy.
yeah it's almost as though in genre fiction realistically consistent depiction of fantastical abilities has to take a back seat to plot or something
Omni Man is a Speedster too...
Yes in most cases speedsters are untouchable its just that a suprise attack is still possible, if they simply just don't notice something then they can't stop it.
You just gained a subscriber with the notifications bell on, why? Because you told absolutely 100% truth!!!
Idk why.. but many form of cartoon animation and media movies or TV series love to disrespect the life out of speedsters. Even in comic books to some degree it doesn’t make sense. Anybody who has superspeed is literally God Tier.
Yes even Dash from the Incredibles. Because that’s the heat maxed out at 300 and 500 he’s not fashionably but he’s getting to that level. Well realistically as he is growing his powers and elevate and grow too. So by the time he’s like 18 he should be well at least relative or faster than a speeding bullet he should be on the Mach levels & up.
Super Speed is Simply God Tier. With little to no weaknesses.
You may be ranting, but you are ABSOLUTELY correct on every point!
I have subscribed.
You're a true hero for speaking up
It's been bottled inside of me for years
You're assumption is that omniman is slow, he's not
Agreed. he aint slow. HE IS FTL+ OR MORE.
he is at tier 5A i think.
homelander 8A?
captain marvel 2A or 2C (shazam)
Omniman can fly at insane speeds, but he clearly isn't super fast in any other capacity (in the show anyway, I don't know the comics). Him beating Red Rush is the only time in the entire show he displays any kind of speed-react feat.
Well if you’re gonna make a speedster character, you should give them a flaw that makes them vulnerable or human
If I were to ever write my own comic script, there would either have to be ZERO speedsters, or they would have to be weak af to make them viable. Literally super speed beats so many other things just because "already done, gone to lunch" should be a thing for every speedster. AoU was the worst I've ever seen a speedster at. Then the current era of X-Men cinematics has him being ridiculously OP as he should be.
The whole reason speedsters get treated the way they do is because otherwise there'd be no plot left to push forward, because everything would get done in ten LITERAL seconds, and then it would just be the fluff of hanging out off duty after the big crisis is over.
Same thing happened to Makkari from eternals. If speedsters can move before one can think and react how can one stop them.
This reminds me of how *telepaths* like Jean Grey should be able to just, you know, control their enemies.
I agree with you, bro, especially about A-Train.
Also Homeland isn't slow, remember the scene when Butcher sets off explosives in the house and wakes up at a completely different house and sees his wife. Homelander and Omniman are fast enough to catch their respected speedster off guard.
@trancendedmindpalace Good point. He's have to have inhuman reaction time as well as superspeed to do that
And even if A-Train is faster, there's the psychological aspect of A-Train being intimidated by Homelander. So even if he is faster, he might not think he is
that slow ass explosion😂
homelander probably just saw butcher about to press the button and just tanked it so butcher wouldn't die
@@NLT1734 The thing people forget is that fear is the highest power you can instill in someone. Once you do that, they'll likely never have the courage to challenge you. Homelander instilled a lot of fear into A-Train.
Finally.... finally someone who pointed these Nerfs out!
Absolutely agree!
Heres how I'd make a live action Flash.
1. Gets powers but can only move at Dash speeds. Has a hard time controlling it. Causes accidental damage and seen as a novice/danger. Has a small fan group that sees him heroic. Randomly has "time in a bottle" moments that are more detrimental than helpful. (Ex. Trying to move someone breaks their arm, running into debris hurts him, etc.)
Villians: Mirror Master, Heat Wave, Gorilla Grodd. (Perfect lower level villains)
2. Gets faster over time, learns to control & master his Dash like speed. Becomes a competent hero. Time in a bottle moments happen less frequently but still detrimental.
Villians: Captian cold (He can slow flash down. Time in a Bottle moment is the key to defeating him)
3. Starts learning to control time in a bottle movement. Even accessing it at will.
Villian: Golden Glider (unlike captain cold, he uses time in a bottle moment *at will* to defeat golden glider).
4. Full speed control. However, now learning the unique abilities that come with the speed force.
Villian: Reverse Flash (perfect villain to test everything flash learned while building on the speed force)
5. Mastery over speed force. Joins the jusitce league?
Villians: zoom, Godspeed, Darkseid_Justice League only (Could be main villians. Or supplemental villains that prevent flash from fully using the speed force. nerfing him when necessary).
*Ex. Godspeed purposely siphoning speed while flash is in the justice league. Is addressed in the JL epilogue. leading to a solo arc of flash vs godspeed/Zoom.*
Exactly my thoughts, im not really sure about red rush and a-train, but the point still stands...
Red Rush and Green Ghost really did have no excuse to die in that fight, one is Fast the other can't be touched, Maneuvering and battlefield control are their main fighting styles, how did they screw up so badly?
Because the writers said so.
makkari and dash are perfect examples of how speedsters should punch. They don’t take random pauses in between each punch or they don’t randomly turn start punching in normal speed once they reach the person they are fighting
I agree. One thing that requires though is that they are paying attention. If they’re asleep, they’re vulnerable. Likewise anything supersonic coming at them, they would have to notice it visually since there would be no sound to hear before the impact. So as long as they compulsively check their surroundings visually, they’re pretty invulnerable. Attacks that move at the speed of light, like a laser, would likewise not be perceivable until it already hit them. Even if they could somehow move faster than light, they wouldn’t see a beam of light before it reached them.
We can explain all of this with 2 words: plot armor
If you want to be physically accurate, the second Barry starts moving a nuke goes off due to him colliding with air particles at relativistic speeds, killing him and everybody in a 10 mile range instantly. If you want to be slightly less physically accurate and give him durability, a nuke still goes off (or a continuous series of nukes), but he survives it. If you want to be less physically accurate still, Barry phases through air, has insane durability but his punches should be like hydrogen bombs in terms of strength. They seem to pay SOME attention to the kinetic energy a speedster's hits can carry, but they are severely, and I mean SEVERELY downplaying it. They have to make it make no sense, otherwise the movie ends in 5 minutes. Reaction time is one thing but the sheer power is also dismissed.
Yeah the problem with speedsters is that writers either don't understand how speed works from a scientific basis, or they make the power more of a On-Off thing and the hero an idiot. But when they show people like Quicksilver and how they ALWAYS see the world around them it is inexcusable to just have a "but he fumbled" moment. The only times when speedsters can lose should be because they just wanted to die
Remember when A train first fought Kimiko?? He was insanely powerful. So was Kimiko but now she dies all the time like a gimmick lol so dumb how weak A train is now
The actual fundamental flaw with speedsters is with the exception of The Flash. When you go over a certain speed, you need to push the molecules of air out of your way, which causes friction. Speedsters with set themselves on fire all the time
Every action over a certain speed, even the movement of a fist, would cause a sonic boom shattering windows and bones within the immediate vicinity.
The Flash gets around this give me the magic of the Speed Force negating all of these problems with going super fast.
"Is she able to think as super speed?" Yes actually. In Marvel the speed of thought IS the fastest thing there is. Xavier once had a telepathic conversation with Lilandra who was over 200 million light years away as if she was in the same room with him. In order to do that, his thoughts had to be moving at literally quadrillions of times the speed of light. Jean Grey is a stronger telepath than he is. So yes, she can think at super speed. I do agree that the MCU wasted Quicksilver though. Most of your video you are ignoring the powers of the other character. It is shown that Omni-Man himself can move at many times the speed of light as well. So, while Red Rush may have been faster than him, it wasn't by much.
My problem is more the fact that they don't make the other characters consistent. If they are shown to have super speed once, then they should always have it.
@@BaysTalks05 No character in comics is truly consistent. I'm not saying that is a good thing, because it isn't, but it is normal at this point.
Speed of thought is one thing, being able to SEE him move at that speed is another. You can think as fast as you want, but light still needs to hit objects, bounce off, hit your eyes, then your eyes still need to send that signal to your brain. Let’s not forget your eyes also have a a very limited frame rate so you would never see him moving.
@@hannibalhector3719 Dude, did you really talk about light needing to hit objects with comics and characters that can more many times the speed of light? That's hilarious.
@@sidroberts7960 I’m simply speaking as to her limitations. Not the speedsters.
I liked the DCAU Flash where if he used too much of the speedforce he literally gets sucked into it and eventually gets atomized if nobody is there to immediately pull him out.
Ranting or not it's worth mention, i agree with you %1000
Omniman and Homelander also have super speed and are arguably as faster or faster than Red Rush and A-Train
I agree 100%.
It’s always frustrating to see a speedster just get grabbed.
Writers, bad writers. Drama makes $. 😒
Finally Someone Made a video On This i Was Always Wondered How GENE GREY,SUPERMAN, APOCALYPSE, would have beaten Speedster It just makes nosense specially FLASH he is the most powerful Superhero I think He can even Beat Superman
Really well said. Thanks. Watching all your videos to try and push you to 1K subscribers. By EOD today hopefully.
You make some valid points. When you are referring to characters like apocalypse and phoenix, these characters have powers that are destructive on a molecular level and sub atomic level when referring to Jean as Phoenix. This would explain more of why they are able to stop speedsters. Scarlett Witch is another character that has this ability to combat speedsters with an addition of her probability influence and she is no where near as fast as Homelander or Omni man.
I 100% agree! Rant away my friend.
He’s right.
Just so many inconsistencies, the are fast when the writer wants them to be but slow when it really matters just to keep the stakes high.
most of this can be explained away as the super speed needing to be turned on or built up, even if it's a always on thing, most of them would have adapted a off botton to not go insane living a eternity in a second, not the best reason, but a reason none the less.
Maybe someone already said this, but the scene between A-Train and Blue Hawk from The Boys helps to put things in perspective a little bit. The downside of mostly spending time with The Seven is that you kind of forget how powerful each of them are, even in comparison to other supes, and that scene reminded you in a very visually and emotionally satisfying way.
He’s completely right, it’s all about spicing up the show or movie , one of flashes biggest villains is a guy with a freeze ray , he would lock him up before the thought reach his body to press the ray
Flora from the show I'm a Virgo on Amazon Prime does a good job at portraying what life as a speedster would really be like. She sees all of life around her in excruciatingly slow motion. It's extremely agonizing for her
I couldn't agree with this more. It's bothered me forever. I love the concepts of super-speed characters, but rarely can handle the execution and the terrible writing that goes with it.
The problem was making these characters so fast in the first place. Same can be said for superman and many other heroes who could theoretically solve every crime on the planet single handedly if they wanted to.
I think in my headcanon is speedsters use up a lot of energy and focus maintaining their speed.
You know how like fighters gas out, play it safe for a bit and then recover? I imagine its like that.
Red Rush was probably pretty drained and psychologically busted when omni-man was at his best.
On the jean grey thing, how do you know she cant think that fast, and move the platforms just takes her mind to process it, heck, it would be a reflex to the approaching person. Same with apocalypse, if they are so smart and strong, and familiar with powers, i am sure he might figure what is going on. Not saying they dont do speedaters weird of course, but in some cases it still works.
As the saying goes "Speedsters suffer from bad writing." Because EVEN IF you wanted to have an insane Speedster you can look at Metro Man, the guy went on a whole self discovery journey before the constrained power of the Sun "hit" him and decided to play it off as if it worked. He allowed Megamind to have his fun which was the only reason why someone that fast was able to have those situations...which is why these problems come from bad writing otherwise these type of characters are not only nearly untouchable but beyond broken.
The one weakness that speedsters should have is ther arrogance.
like if they get too over confident, thats when bad guys should be able to strike
what happens in the omni-man fight is best explained in the batman vs superman movie. that moment when flash takes off and as he gets close to superman we can see superman turning his eyes and slowly turning his head towards flash, it shows that superman, or omni man, is not as fast as the speedster, but fast enough that the speeder's speed in not totally overwhelming. basically, red rush against omni man is like dash against a normal human. the speed difference is simply not so big that omni man won't eventually catch him off guard.
Anticipation bro
I think one easy way to make speedster’s writing more consistent with all these is just by making them have to accelerate to their max speed (which means there’s still at least a a second or two where they aren’t faster than omni-man or homelander), and make it so there reaction speed has to be consciously slowed down, like when they’re running (this would explain why in situations where they’re just chilling lr believe they’re under no threat, something may still catch them off guard).
And the boys does do the first one, which has always been a cool detail, where he has to get to speed, meaning theoretically homelander could catch him under certain situations due to his fast reaction
I’m glad I’m not the only one that be thinking this
Red Rush aside, I usually chalk up them getting caught out is because for many heroes their abilities aren't always 'on'.
Maybe using their ability uses energy so they don't necessarily see everything in slow motion, only when they choose to activate it.
Marv Wolfman, cocreator with George Perez of Raven, Cyborg, Starfire of the New Teen Titans, hated writing Flash and Kid Flash because he said if you took their powers to the logical conclusion, they would be untouchable gods. This is why they slowed Kid Flash down tremendously in the late 80s and had him replace Flash. Made him much more interesting.
yeah, you are exactly right. and that is the problem with speedsters
idk how to say it, but for things as punching in the case of red rush, they need to stop enough to let the hit land and then get acceleration again, and they always need to suppress themselves punching and so, as even if they have super regeneration and extra durability if they hit too fast they can blow its own limb if they hit something to resistant
Speedsters also defacto have super strength.
The amount of energy it takes to accelerate their mass to those speeds would outmatch just about any feat of characters with super strength.
Dash was able to be Flash fast. 'Remember the principal's office scene? "Coincidence? I think not!"
I remember getting told about a comic book that came out in the 80s or 90s in which the heroes lived in a simulation to hone their clothing, and had to deal with real life consequences when they used their powers in reality. The speedster would burn his feet and flesh off of his body if he tried to run too fast without protective clothing, and I'm not sure if they gave him super reflexes and reaction time.
the only "in universe" explanation i have for speedsters getting beat so easily is that they cannot see in the dark or very dim light and so they are acting on slightly out of date information (like maybe a millisecond) because there has been insufficient light reflecting off the object in the current position to be visible to the speedster. and so they can respond effectively in the middle of an explosion or during gunfire because they can effectively from the out of date information based on velocity and position. this would be similar to a marching band that can remain in time even though they hear the sounds too late because they are trained to play their notes before they hear the beat of the leaders in front of them based on them hearing the previous beats. as long as the bullets and explosive particles move predictably based on the past position and velocity, the speedster can respond effectively by anticipating the current invisible position from the old visible positions. but when they are against an opponent that can make sudden changes in velocity (rapid acceleration in unknown directions) they cannot anticipate based off of the old information.
bullets and shrapnel don't give speedsters trouble because those don't change velocity mid flight. but non-speedsters who can make sudden changes in velocity can beat speedsters since the speedsters are acting on slightly out of date information.
i'm not saying this explanation makes sense and isnt full of holes. but i can't think of any better explanation. if someone has a better explanation i'm happy to hear it. but if people think this explanation is weak, they are just preaching to the choir.
You don't need to be as fast as someone to catch their punch. If you manage to anticipate their move and have good reflexes, you can get away with being a bit slower and not thinking as fast as them. If you're throwing a punch with all your strength, it's hard to stop it and retract it all of a sudden. It's the same for a speedster. Their own punches are too fast for even themselves to easily react to.
one fun idea I read somewhere else was giving peter his takedown scene of jean, then rewinding revealing she was reading his mind and having her counter him, only for him to recover, only for her to counter, etc etc and we can gradually return to normal speed watching these two carry out dozens ten hundreds then thousands of scenarios in a single moment until she finally wins, albeit drained, this would both show how overwhelmingly powerful the phoenix is while still giving peter the respect he'd earned in full by then
Thanks bro this what I keep telling my friends
Speed Stars especially flash are basically gods
You can't fight them
I think certain moves/conditions can at least make it somewhat harder for speedsters.
Condition example: icey floor.
Move example (if strong enough): stomping or lifting ground, or breaking ground in a way that is just uneven enough to trip up said speedster.
The small amount of horizontal force supplied by floor friction is insignificant next to the forces applied by running in a gentle curve at 1000 mph. The speedster shouldn't even notice the difference between an icy floor and a floor covered in sandpaper.
Also, ice is slippery because of the film of water melting on top of it... but speedsters can run on the ocean just fine. Solid ice, if it's too cold to melt, is basically just another rock.
@stevenscott2136 oh, ok, then what about the other option I mentioned, with breaking the ground, rendering it uneven?
Agreed 100% I’ve bees saying this for years. Speedsters, especially the flash is the most powerful character ever created period. If he’s written properly he could obliterate any foe in an instant. Kingdom come flash is Godlike to the point he’s omnipresent. I guess that’s why speedsters like the Flash is always nerfed
Makkari literally put all the other characters to shame since she beat Ikaris who was similar to Homelander and yet she never got caught since she didn't allow it.
I guess A-Train would be vulnerable while sleeping, if he found himself being hunted by Homelander he'd struggle to find somewhere he could rest up and sleep without being found eventually. Considering homelander is also quite fast, and has x-ray vision etc. No need for him to go around obstacles during the pursuit.
this is why i really dislike speedsters, it always frustrates me. ive not played the latest suicide squad game(or is it a show?) but from the clips of cutscenes ive seen they are unable to kill flash because he is always hyper aware, they have as much if not more trouble with him as they have with superman. even a supersonic bullet from flashes blindzone isnt able to reach him. its funny that when they made him evil he became so much more powerful.
there was one show where superspeed was done right, but my memory of that show is faint so i dont remember which, but there the individual had superspeed but not super speed thinking, so he was not op. was it heroes? i dont remember
I think Omniman has what DC’s Cheetah has going. Where they’re fast enough in reflexes to counter wonderwoman and supposedly flash if they were close combat. That doesn’t mean she’s outrunning either of them. So we consider reflex speed, and Rush’s drop in energy in each punch(the show did give one frame of static rush in a punch), it’s safe to say Omniman has all the ingredients to catch him as he did get hit one last time
There are probably many reasons for this. But the most obvious one is, that we could not have speedsters in our story if this did not happen. They would all be extremely boring because there would be no stakes. They could easily and quickly fix the problem and remove the danger.
In basilisk the main character was a speedster ninja
That king Arthur movie Excalibur gave the weilder super speed
Homelander has laser eyes. So even A-train faster he couldn't keep up with the speed of light. That means thar every time homelander looks directly at him A-train doesn't know when he decides to use lasers. And when he decide its hardly possible to catch laser halfway to the target (i mean A-train is fast, but not like Flash fast, from what i saw in the show). So only safe strategy for A-train is to always keep track of Homelanders head end eyes direction and constantly move aside from it. But Homelander can also laser him through the walls when A-train won't able to see him.
I think i echo a sentiment of someone else that Authors aren't physicists, their story tellers first and foremost. Realism isn't exactly the main focus of a lot of writers, especially not comics. I think their sentiment can easily be seen in Stan lee's frustration on "who would win" saying "whoever the author wants to win", meaning wither a speedster wins or not is based on wither the author built it that way.
If you want things that way, thats fine. Write a fanfiction, that is what those are for. But authors tend ot have a good idea of why they written something the way they did, though we will rarely understand the thought processes that went into some decisions. Its safe to say a lot of the time it can be boiled down to theatrics, plot and rule of cool. Better to have the concept of a Speedster than not have them at all is my outlook.
The problem with Speedsders is, if we're talking able guys like Red Rush and Flash, was put into words by Mark Waid (former Flash writer). "In any fight hes in, if realistic, would be over in a literal second. Not very exciting."
So, you're thinking, you just dont use them right? Or power them down a bit to make it more plausible to challenge them. But you already pointed out the problem with this in the video. Theyre an iconic power set. And superhero fan whos watching your superhero show will exspect to see them. DC sells millions of Flash comics a year. If you took him out of a show with the Justice League then ppl will cry. The curse of success.
The question there is, for how long does he need to make contact to transfer the force of his attack? Because there is such a thing as pulling your punches i.e when you make contact but pull your hand back before you can deliver the energy of your attack, channeling momentum into the target. Note the speed difference between 0:12 - 0:14 . Omniman is not standing still while Redrush is in slowmo mode, although Omniman is at full speed which is different from when he is just standing still. But that time Redrush needs to channel his own momentum into his attack is what can work against him to where he might perceive Ominman's hand, but he is already going in too hard to stop himself and gets caught.
There is a difference between a quick jab and a full on right straight, one has follow-through in it to make it more powerful. So, if he stuck to quick jabs, he might've continued all day, but really doing no damage to Omniman. He needed to lean into his punches to even do minor damage to Omni man and that is how he got caught.
Maybe, hahaha. Just trying to explain it 😄