2 of them are the best mind readers in the xmen universe. He can think fast but he would still have to plan out their moves and react to what they are doing. Most of the speed character a very cocky and arrogant and that is usually what does them in. Dont forget they are omega level mutants for a reason both can change the persons perception of event or even freezing them shown by professor x. Id agree with you on the on the avengers though. Though didnt watch the apocalypse movie so i dont know if he had the power to absorb others powers in it but if the included it or not. Mind powers are so over powered they would explain a lot of this
great to see people comment on superspeed. you nailed all the problems with the depiction or understanding of superspeed. one of the funniest observations to make, and you'll find some youtube parody vids, when travelling at 'superspeed' and thus slowing down time for their perceptions, they are moving in 'normal speed', ergo if a superspeedster had to run a great distance like across a continent, they would literally, in their time frame 'be running' for a REALLY REALLY long time... as long as it would take a normal person to run a continent. ofcourse the solution is that speedsters are able to increase and decrease their perceptive superspeed like a throttle. so when they do finer work they throttle up, and when more mundane straight runs, they throttle down. Anyway, yeah, superspeed is the most powerful superhero ability.... which few, even comic book writers, can comprehend. Would be nice if someday, a good nerd writer would do it justice.
They would, you just need to introduce characters that have like, insane durability so the speedster can't one shot em, stuff like conceptual manipulation, time manipulation, plot manipulation and the likes of those absurdly op abilities
One way to beat a speedster : you spread in the air a product that is lethal but only later (a slow chemical reaction or a virus whatever). The speedster won't see you coming, will breath it and die later.
Almost. If a speedster stayed consistent the write would have to do WAY more work. Quicksilver is the first or The Flash have elements of what they need, a limit. The limit for Quicksilver is him getting tired: use this to make him have to save too many people or something , anything that would result in him not being able to not lose any situation and have to pick and choose between saving people and or beating every threat. The Flash has a similar but different limit: He has to refill his tank, he's not shown eating nearly enough in later seasons, he should also be eating Goku big meal quantities EVERY meal after a MAJOR fight and even more so after injuries. This all stuff is everyday non-writers thought of. Writers just need to write better sense or stop writing speedsters because we either see them get nerfed or lose to trash logic. The Mr Freeze guy in flash is among the stupidest things i've had the misfortune to witness.
Fox is stupid and never really cared enough about the characters to get their abilities right, just close enough to get film in a can and on a screen so they got paid.
Can't say I agree w/ stupid ways in the Xmen movies. He got stopped by Apocalypse and Phoenix in the Xmen movies... Those 2 situations would completely pan out. In MCU he got killed by a machine gun.
They're all powerful or weak as the plot requires. Look at Bucky in his movie vs every other movie he's in. Wanda Maximoff is a god compared to any other witch yet Agatha Harkness had the upper hand until the TV series was almost over. Spiderman is always super strong yet Vulture bullied him in Homecoming when he wasn't wearing his super suit.
yeah like honestly the "time in a bottle" scene as the viewer watches it is basically as it's written from the perspective of quicksilver. that's how overpoweringly fast he is
I was just thinking about over powered supercharacters the other day. One another who went ridiculously powerful with just some little training is Doctor Strange.
@@magnuskallas If you remember though dr strange is basically a genius. Not as Smart as Bruce or Stark but he is up there. Plus he got control over the time stone fairly early. If he used the time stone to pause time couldn't Strange have been training for a very long time but to everyone else basically no time had passed? That is what I assumed happed. Plus he was being trained by someone who had already mastered the mystical arts. unlike other hero's who had to figure out there powers/abilities on there own.
@@tjsmead1844 I had to check it again, and while you make sense, Dr Strange was the character that introduced "magic" to Marvel, to create a new market next to genetic mishaps, hi-tec, and yes, aliens. It still kind of proves the point that he has always been the odd one.
Is unreactable a word?? Doesn't seem like it. What does it mean?? Slowsilver is fodder compared to Comic Flash and is far slower than even his own comic counterparts. Moving slow enough to perceive everything in slow motion is also below light speed. Many characters can go Faster than Light which in of itself isn't very impressive considering the higher tiers above Infinite Speed such as Inaccessible, Immeasurable and Irrelevant.
They overuse Jean Grey/Dark Phoenix with no character development or power explanation. Thus putting her character at a major disadvantage, with no real back story to explain her relationship to the Phoenix. They repeatedly blundered this character.....and now all they have left from Xmen world are Deadpool and the Wolverine. What a waste of plot potential.
His entire perception of reality could be whatever Jean wanted him to think. He could have been fast asleep during that entire scene for all we know, and it took place in the mental plane
@@dmonk926 If the filmmakers actually had the capacity to understand the character's powers on such a level you bet your sweet behind they wouldn't have hesitated a second to spell that out to the audience (who they clearly believe are beneath them intellectually).
Physics completely falls apart for speedsters unless you invent additional magic powers. For example, gravity alone makes it impossible for quicksilver to propel himself at that speed, so either gravity becomes insanely more powerful for him alone, or he can actually direct his body in any direction at will, not requiring him to actually push off of the ground. The first step at that speed would launch him into orbit
This is a perfect comment. But the video is ready to accept that a power like quicksilver exists, but fucking PHOENIX AND APOCALYPSE shouldn't beat him. My dude those two just existing is enough for the audience to suspend their disbelief. The media form being a movie make for less run time wasted on exposition. So Apocalypse being shown adapting to quicksilver power so quickly is a good way to show the level of threat the heroes are dealing with. Being so strong that only two mutants with literally apocalyptic level of destruction powers are the ones to beat you is not bullshit
Nobody is saying phoenix and apocalypse shouldn’t be able to beat him but make it make sense. You can’t just write crap because one character is meant to be a higher threat than the other.
@Igorteddede só the expository dialogs I'm both movies explaining the phoenix and apocalypse powers and how much of a threat they are is what? Lies? They SHOW apocalypse adapting In real time. And we can't even know if he could free himself. Because he's only freed after they deal with him Same goes for phoenix powers I mean come on man. Just don't interact with the media. You're asking for pizza and expecting a steak
@ Okay to be honest I forgot that adapting was part of apocalypse powers. However there is nothing in Phoenix’s power set that enables her to defeat quicksilver the way she did, we literally see her hand move when everything is in slow motion, that would mean she also has super speed which we know she doesn’t.
@@Igorteddede you do know that the phoenix is basically omnipotent right? I mean if anyone was nerfed for the movies it was the phoenix force. There's no such thing as winning against her because it will just turn into a cosmic egg and take another host. Again. Quicksilver alone should never be able to defeat both of the most powerful forces in the entire x-man universe
I think Wally West was written incredibly well in Young Justice. Big part of that is getting rid of the Speed Force bc it’s literally a cheap way to do random bullshit go
@ain3sh yeah would be cool to have a speedster who cannot just go super fast all the time because of the consequences it would have for the environment like constantly breaking sound barrier
Yeah I was coming to say that too lol. He would have grabbed it, realized it was pulling him, and just let go way before it actually pulled him enough to do anything
lettin go of ordinary items maby but thors hammer is pretty much an immovable object for QS and he can only figure that out by actually holdin the hammer so even if QS lets go of the hammer the moment he realizes it wont budge QS is now traveling at the same speed and direction as the hammer as it is now imparting its direction and momentum into QS janking him of his feet
@BishopGantry No to the entire second part of this rant. Him gaining momentum in the direction of the hammer by holding it doesnt mean that he wouldve gotten flung. Think about it, the momentum he gained was only enough to accelerate him to the velocity of the hammer- a hammer that was relatively super slow.
@@Externex Quicksilver isnt worthy to mjolnir so if he grabs it in midair hes along for the ride just as the hulk was along for the ride when he tried to grab mjolnir in midair while not being worthy they where both pulled of their feets due to the momentum mjolnir was moving at
I'm going to defend MCU Quicksilver. Yes he can see bullets in slow motion but he gets tired throughout the final battle. It wouldn't be a stretch to say he gets slower throughout the battle. You even show a clip of him stopping to take a breather. He's already tired by the time he saves them and problem isn't even looking at the bullets coming at him and just grabbed them
plus he would have had to slow down to move the car in the way, he couldnt just shove it at super speed, he'd have to slow down a little so it wouldnt have inertia, so he probably got hit as he was about to start moving, then moved a few feet before realizing he was a dead man walking
also its not clear if he moves hawkeye or if he moves the car, he probably moves hawkeye though which makes even more sense. He had to slow down to move hawkeye and the kid and had to be in the wrong place at the wrong time to do it but did it anyway
I thought what they meant to depict was quicksilver being shot as he moved them away which kind of makes sense. He's already tired, injured and it was a last minute decision
In real life this makes sense but yall have to remember this shit is comics. Even when they try to use real life logic in powers 10/10 that shit doesn’t matter fr
It's convenient. the easiest way to take away a speedsters advantage is to get them off the ground. The writers realised he would basically be stuck in the air and super convenient to kill for Wanda.
@@CursedCapsuleStudiohe didn't ask if he was convenient for the writers to keep them in the air so he couldn't run he asked why Quicksilver fell out of the sky like a goddamn bullet at super speed I didn't know quicksilver could control gravity.
@LittleQ-ko6fl I will have to take the L here because I didn't explain it completely and I went of course with my answer. it's the same thing. Even if he is going to fall, there must be consistency in his movement, or else it is jarring for the audience. The reason he falls in the first place is because of the convenience. I hope this makes what I was trying to say clearer
@@LittleQ-ko6fl I think you give the writers too much credit, but, yes, that's what should have happened, without a foothold, Quicksilver would end up floundering in the air and have to resort to swimming motions and looking really silly.
Speedsters fundamentally don't make sense in our physical reality. At even the lower end of these speeds air would be swmming in molassis and inertia would completely overwhelm traction to the ground making it impossible to stop or turn. Also deafening sonic booms any time you move. Anyone you move would be ripped apart to chunks and have all their organs liquefied - even if you could somehow survive it. At the higher ends like Flash it becomes even stupider with just the movement itself causing massive, potentially planet-ending explosions. Approaching relativistic speeds almost anything could happen. But yea - superspeed with equal level of thinking/reactions even at a very low level would be hard to beat with most other powers - and it necessarily has to include many other powers like super-strength, super-durability and flight to make any sort of sense. At that point you are essentially Superman. The closest we can come to experience something like this is probably in the VR game "super hot". Very highly recommended if you have the gear to play it. It demonstrates just how ridiculously OP even highly limited superspeed is.
The flash they use the speed force as their catchall excuse for why it works. When running fast from the speed force it doesn't impact the world around them etc. The problem for DC is then, explain superman and why him traveling at those speeds doesn't wreck everything.
Most speedsters don't use physical prowess to move fast. They can alter time in some way like shift their own relative time compared to everything else. How personal time dilation like that interacts in an atmosphere, no one knows but its comics. If Superman tries to catch up to the Flash, Supes would cause a sonic boom yet Flash won't and he can still speed up.
I agree with almost everything in this video, I want to just point out a few things. 1:45 water jet cutters add an abrasive material in the water to allow them to cut through things like glass and metal, but even without it just water at that speed could cut fingers. 3:00 Apocalypse was shown to copy other powers when they are being used against him, like how he used telepathy only when Xavier was using it near him, so when the camera zooms in on his eyes and they start moving very fast is when he started copying Quicksilver's super speed. You could say he shouldn't be able to do that because it happened in too short an amount of time for him to think, but maybe his power copying ability activates automatically. But you're right, Quicksilver should have been able to break that sand. 5:36 you could argue that even this shouldn't happen, since from his perspective the hammer is moving very slowly, so when he grabs it, he would notice that he can't move it and that the hammer is slowly pulling him backwards, so he would just let go.
See this I can understand better. his eyes go silver he adopts qicksilver speed, this allowed him to see and trap him. but they seem to link his silvered eyes to the ground change so...writers...
I'm a little fuzzy on how the movies portrayed Apocalypse, but I believe he was considered an immortal entity that could transfer from body to body and retain all the abilities from previous hosts. He's literally being written as a god. I may be incorrect in my understanding of the situation, but as long as he goes one on one, no one is getting the better of him.
@@legion5463 Correct, very few would be able to take him 1 on 1. Phoenix could, but not really anyone else in the Avengers or Xmen movies... Scarlet Witch would give him a lot of trouble. And Magneto technically could if they had him go absolutely rageful like he did in Age of Apocalypse comics. But Magneto in his normal mentality wouldn't be able to destroy Apocalypse...
This is still a stupid argument. If QS can move at the 6000 the speed of sound, you won't see him. Even if Apo's power react automatically, it is still not enough time for him to be able to copy QS's super speed. Plus how fast must the sand move to be able to trap QS, that means the sand built up faster than QS moves. For me, no matter how you argue it, it is still not really acceptable.
6:51 they had to nerf and kill him cause he will only get better with his powers like wanda. Which will make all the consequent movies too easy for the hero team
You can still kill someone in a smart way. Hell just let him live until Thanos arrives and with the time stone just freeze his ass. Makes way more sense than bullet that should have hit him hit him because he lagged in the server.
The next avengers movie is the endgame ones, and the mcu quicksilver at the time doesnt have the strength to even phase thanos. Could have triggered an interesting sub-plot around him hiding the stones and gave the wizard dude something to do other than get folded by Dr. Strange. If they *had* to kill him, they should've had Ultrons laser do it. At least then it would be understandable since its a light speed laser beam.
You should make a video about how sonic went from perceiving time in slow-motion in the first sonic movie to barely being able to run faster then a car in the second movie
@@yesbutcooler Yeah... what about it? Don't see what that has to do with mentioning him having trouble running on water in the second movie like it was some change when it wasn't because he had the same problem in the first movie.... literally, the same movie with the bar scene in question. So there was no point in even bringing up the second movie to illustrate your point. So your point is stronger when considering he had that same problem in the same movie.
only good thing about the boys was showing how insanely overpowered their speedster character is at any given moment. Literally took a random heart attack to beat the a train.
Quicksilver and other speedsters perceive the world as moving extremely slowly; when they don't hold back their powers, everything around them seems to pause even while they remain still. Consequently, when they slow down to match the world's pace, they often become restless- a state Quicksilver frequently pointed out. I would like to add that speedsters are also extremely fast thinkers, as their mental processes must keep pace with their physical movements.
6:11 Even if he had not seen the bullet coming, approaching from a blind spot, his reaction speed is such that at the moment of contact, he could move out of its way.
Firstly speedsters can't coexist with normal environment scientifically Because if there is something moving faster than speed of sound there will be production of SONIC BOOM which will destroy it's surroundings.
They don’t freeze time they think at super speed and therefore time to them is considerably slower. If they aren’t able to react and think at super speed they won’t be able to turn or stop at all
Just make a movie where everyone involved in the plot is a speedster, including the bad guys. It worked well for the flash I'm the first seasons, despite, of course, the horrendous writing whenever non speedsters were involved
Option 3: If they do freeze/slow time, they also freeze/slow all photons and molecular movement of foreign objects. Their vision goes completely/nearly black while stationary, and they can only see the photons that are in the direct path of their eyeballs as they run and collide with said photons (meaning severe tunnel vision). Their surroundings feel incredibly cold while stationary (as their own body's molecules are moving significantly faster than their surroundings), and unbearably hot while moving fast (as they're being bombarded with pressure and friction from the air). The faster they move, the more detrimental forces they experience. Thus a natural limit is created as to how quickly they can move if they want to remain living.
I’ve already seen this here in the thread, but I’m very glad this video exists, while also breaking down every aspect of the ‘fast’ charcters. it more than just speed like you said, it’s speed, durability, essentially freezing time, and having the mental cognition or brain power or what have you, to even be able to compute all of that rapid fire information and coordinate it properly. they are essentially OP tactical geniuses
With Apocalypse 2:40 im pretty sure he was following Quicksilver with the ground, you can hear the pulses Quicksilver was giving off on the ground (It could be a heart beat but either way hes following him with the sound of the steps). That's why Apocalypse was able to root him.
3:06 Did you not see him gaining enhanced perception in that scene or just missed it? When your eyes track or focus on something your pupils & irises contracts his did so dramatically trying to gain a new power
Nah fr like idk if he actually gained super speed but it was clearly trying to infer him adjusting and having super speed perception same with Jean grey that moment was to show how powerful she was that a guy who is that quick can’t even catch her off guard I do still think the rock boot was a dumb way to trap him they definitely should’ve came up with something more creative and consistent or just him knocking his lights out like super man slowly figuring out the flash’s patterns and needing just one good hit to take him out
@@yeahok6240 To that, I would think that Apocalypse would just actively keep him locked in the sand as QS tried to free himself. Still doesn't explain how he moved the sand faster than QS could move, but idk how that power works.
It all comes down to superhero stories revolving around "what looks cool". It's the same reason starships fly like airplanes, alien women are always hot, and explosions always make that big orange gasoline fireball no matter what kind of explosive is used. You can't expect much else from a medium that relies on mass-audience appeal.
I've never seen an aeroplane go from 0 to 55,000 MPS+ in less than a second or fly directly vertical and out into space and then bend space in front of it to travel to other Galaxies. Do you mean that ships fly forward?? Well real life spacecraft do that and it helps them continuously fall back onto the Earth to achieve orbit. Even satellites do that too. They don't fly backwards otherwise that would completely contradict momentum, energy conservation, inertia and basic thermodynamics as things and objects don't move backwards when having force or momentum applied to them unless altered by exotic particles. Like negative mass and movement particles like the theoretical Gravitons.
@@CerealExperimentsMizuki I think they're referring to the fact that a lot of space movies depict space craft doing aerial maneuvers, dodging asteroids, and doing combat generally like what you would've seen WWII planes flying around doing in non space age movies. In reality, even in the most dense regions of the asteroid belt, asteroids are hundreds of thousands of miles apart on average and so no craft would really be dodging anything, and space combat would take place entirely differently because of the vast distances between objects and the speeds they would be traveling. However, having the crew freak out as the craft does barrel rolls to dodge asteroids is more exciting.
Great video, consider looking into Beast Boy, he opened pandora's box too by transforming into alien species, the things he transforms into in some of the comic book canons make him theoretically insanely powerful
Does he have to KNOW about the alien, or can he just think "I need something that can crush an Imperial destroyer", and his power will rummage through the cosmos and find that giant asteroid snake from Empire Strikes Back?
I am not an expert or anything I just fell into a rabbit hole one day, but I think he has to know about the entity, it wasn't just aliens either, iirc in one of the comics he turns into a Phoenix, which could open the door for Mythological beasts too
You make some very interesting videos. Thank you for this. My remarks... With Quicksilver vs Jean, I agree that she shouldn't have been able to counter his speed the way she did. As you correctly point out, she would need to have superspeed herself and she doesn't. Regarding the person saying she could "sense him coming" (lol, what?), even if you know a punch is coming, it doesn't matter if that punch is too fast for your reaction. Thing is, falling would have hurt him because he doesn't have superspeed while falling and I think that, like his "strength", his "invulnerability" would also require him to be tapping into his superspeed. I think the real issue, as is often the case with superpowers, writers don't understand nor think about every aspect of those powers. They don't think about what that water would be like to him. They don't think about the other abilities they'd have to have so they could turn on a dime or not be shredded to pieces and melted due to the air friction alone. They just go "Superspeed just means doing what anyone else could do but super fast" so they don't realize that he'd be ripped to pieces and so would anyone he was carrying if they were moving at 8,000 times the speed of sound. A scientist (of the relevant field) could make a video doing the calculations to figure out how strong a surface would have to be to withstand that speed and then go, therefore, Quicksilver is more invulnerable than Hulk... but the reality is, the writers didn't even think about any of that. Nah, they just wanted something cool, lol.
@RicoTheCEO_ Magneto Fassbender/Mckellen Xavier /Mcaavoy Stewart Quicksilver And Of Course Wolverine The Foxverse is over-hated. They want their colorful X-Men. Watch their annoying 90s series.
They had access to use him for as long as they wanted. They just couldn't call him Quicksilver, just like they couldn't call Wanda the Scarlet Witch. I think they just didn't want to deal with having a speedster (not to mention that he served as a way to raise the stakes by having a hero die without losing one of the main cast). Even after acquiring Fox, they only brought Quicksilver back as a joke.
I think its a fair restriction that speedster durability only applies to the physical and relativistic effects of going superspeed, and impacts on your body are capped by how hard they would hit on normal speed (and are not 0). Running into a wall still hurts quite a bit, but the same as it hurts everyone. Doesn't really make it any less op though
THANK YOU for pointing out how unfathomably stupid it was for the MCU's Quicksilver to die while saving Hawkeye. Ever since Age of Ultron came out, I've been feeling like I was the only one who saw the problem there.
@@marxkeyboards In that case, he'd be the slowest speedster of all time. Even non-speedster superheroes could have saved those people without having to die themselves.
1:00 you can see the drops of water hitting his clothing. If it was simply he had durability, that would be one thing. Whatever magic he has, it's protecting him and his cloths as well. It has to be some kind of "aura" or something.
@@dattos140 Would that not make him super fragile and therefore anything hitting him at those speeds (including dust and water particles) would totally destroy him?
@@ShadeSlayer1911 I don't know, it's gotta be an aura of light weightness (Kinda like what that other person said), cause otherwise wouldn't his clothes fuck him up too? If it is an aura, then he would also be making the water droplets and shit super light.
ive heard once about the aura thing too. he was listening to the time in a bottle track while showing of his skills. but i assume he is able to listen to music while in speedmode because everything arround him is slow. he might be able to set stuff on normal at will. but at the end its just overanalysing fantasy powers
I am not going to truly defend the Quicksilver/Jean Grey fight, but I will suggest a plausible reason. She has the Phoenix Force in her amping her abilities. So the moment Quicksilver thinks "I'll run at her from here" she knows his intention and removes the stepping stone debris. She's not reacting to him mid-run, she's reacting to before he even moved. It just LOOKS like she is reacting to him running.
I mean, they both have super powers too. Why can't she be allowed to have her powers be faster than her own running speed or have her powers artificially amplify her speed?
@@Anonymice That's why he points out the speed of his perception. Her powers can do a lot of things, amplifying her speed of perception/reaction is not part of it as it is for him. If it were, she would be quite literally unbeatable as her brute force telekenesis/telekenetic powers are already so absurdly powerful if her perception and reaction were to the level of picoseconds like a speedster is shown to be there's zero counter. Period. She would simply appear omnipotent and end every fight before they have a chance to realize they are IN a fight which is not shown anywhere else so obviously not true.
@@thatrandomguyo1 I don't think you realize just how powerful phoenix is. She's one of those mutants that's essentially so powerful she's borderline goddess. Kind of like Onslaught. Theres not really a force equal to her in the current x-men cinematic universe, granted Charles come's the closest.
Just paused to say speedsters don’t fucking slow down time. Their perception of time is just like 10000 times faster than ours. So a normal conversation is like years for them as they portrayed this good in the show invincible
I mean, this dude can SPEED UP even while in slow motion. And the Apocalypse can see him in slow motion? It's some kind of quantum teleportation sh*t happening in his brain.
His fight against Apocalypse is somewhat believable in the movie universe. since he could have distracted Quicksilver into breaking concentration with the leg hold to make him result in coming out of speed. And him noticing him doesnt mean he was able to fight him at the same speed, just means he could detect him since he does have alot of powers in the movie. His fight with jean only way i could say he lost that is somehow the phoenix force but i def agree that is not believeable. and MCU Quicksilver the shot in the arm he coulding have noticed the bullet but he def could have survived his death scene.
Apocalypse power is to be able to manipulate and control other mutants powers. That's how he took control of Cerebro when Xavier contacted him indirectly and how he empowered his Riders. It's reasonable to asume that he can use that power to limit or perceive Quicksilver powers. Maybe he even can "kick him out of" superspeed.
Quicksilver CAN'T come out of his perception though. He's stuck in it, that's why he has headphones on playing crazy fast music nobody else could listen to ( I don't think that'd even work, physically, but it's clear what they're trying to show) because he's unable to just enjoy himself watching normal media because it'd be agonizingly boring watching a movie for him, since he can't relax that perception. So the idea that he got flustered and caught off guard makes no sense, he'd need to be flustered for like 3 months from his perspective. The thing that's really dumb is there are perfectly logical ways to take out speedsters, like using light based attacks or telepathy or undetectable poisons. The way to kill a speedster isn't aiming a really good shot at where they'll be, it's tricking them into breathing in some nerve gas so they show up and drop dead before you even realize they got there.
@@oldcat1790 Yeah, but the other powers that are used against him are pretty much useless (Mystic is awesome but she can't do any harm) except when he is overpowered. He confronts and even controls Xavier's but clearly when they team up (like five or six mutants against him if I remember right) he can't do much about it.
Exactly. If someone was as fast as he’s portrayed with Evan Peters in X Men, who the hell could stop him without some asinine plot convenience or plot hole? Why not have him accomplish everything needing done?
what a lot of people seem to forget is that Super speed Perception =/= omnicience, he can react to things he can percieve, meaning that if he's not expecting something to happen, like for instance the ground moving to trap one of his legs while he's focusing on the main badguy and running at super speed, he's probbly not gonna be able to react to it in time and before people say "what about pherifieral vision" the dude is wearing goggles so his vision is obviously limited by that, not to mention the fact that QS in the clip he showed was being arrogant, he litteraly sped up to the guy, laughed and then started punching him, in his mind he was that fast, that no one could react to him, and was probbly subconsiously considering this guy a non threat And on top of everything else, Apocalypse as potrayed in the XMMCU was the FIRST mutant, he has hundreds if not THOUSANDS of powers, not all of them are going to be as imeditatly useful as partical manipulation, if you notice QS gets quite a few punches in before Poccys eyes start twiching, that's his mind preforming thousands of calculations a second to relize whats going on, track how fast this guy was going, and predict where was the most optimum time to push his powers to stop him the dude was litteraly re-aranging enough matter to build a prymid the size of the ones in egypt in SECONDS, is it really that far of a streach to believe he could manipulate enough matter in a couple pico seconds to trap a speederst leg ------ As for the jene grey/Pheonix scene, Speed reading thoughts, having entrie convisations is mere seconds are like....rudementry level powers for psysics in the X-men universe, jene grey was matching and surpassing Proff-X at the age of like 10, without any of the knowlage nessessary to really control that extradonary level of power, she was floating an entire culdasack worth of cars because she was scared with just brute force psysic power, she was then trained by the second most powerfull psysic in the world over the next decade to be able to be so precised with her control that she can fit a thread though a needle (she was able to hold back Cylops ocular lazers without breaking a sweat while kissing him, you know those things that TRAVEL AT OR ATLEAST NEAR LIGHT SPEED), she was then empowerd by an acient cosmic entity that multiplied her powers ten fold reading quicksilvers mind in the pico second transition from him thinking "oke she's floating in the air, i gotta run up this debris and punch her" to him actualy doing it and not only formulating a counter plan but enacting it, would be childs play
You don't understand that even if we take the lowest estimate Quicksilver's punches should have blown huge holes in Apocalypse. And no, Jean Grey can't react to him, she did not demonstrate such abilities in subsequent fights
Ive said this all along. Imagine getting punches at 8 times the speed of sound, example if a bullet travels 700 mph and weights 7 grams, now a punch weighting in 5lbs traveling at Mach 8. This punch would literally wipe a city and vaporize the point of contact with just the kinetic energy. Assuming his arm is 5 kg: KE =1/2 (5)(2744to the pwer of 2) ≈18.8 × 10 to the power of 10 joules.
His statement about it being able to vaporize a city is flat out wrong. That much joules would equal about 44.93 tons of tnt or city block level. Not city level.@@annunakim525
I'm glad you pointed this. I always knew there was something fishy with Quicksilver. Thankfully now we can watch a realistic show based on proper science!
One thing i find too thats crazy is that in some movies, they show the speedster slowing down time just cause they are moving insanly quickly, but then the speedsters can run at top level speeds while time is basically stopped. They are already moving at an insanse pace to keep time frozen, then they move FASTER????
I Always understood his death as him pushing a car in front of Hawkeye and being caught up in the spreading fire from ultron, and it baffled me because how the hell did he push and flip over a car if he doesn't have super strength
@@ellpee775 E=Mc^2 is Only correct For objects That are Moving slowly Relative the Observer. E^2 = M^2c^4 +p^2c^2 For relativistic Mass, its M(rel) = m/sqrt(1-(v/c)^2)
@@ellpee775yeah, but it’s not like Captain America or Thor’s bro barley has enough durability to run though the ultron drones and was shown getting tired overtime, even if he could why would he push a car towards them instead of just grabbing out the line of fire?
1:41 the water jets are not just shooting water, they contain hard minerals like quarts, ruby or even diamond. The water has no where near the cutting power without.
really depends on the PSI, enough pressure and even without abrasive materials it still can cut. and im not talking out my ass here, operated a CNC machine for a couple of years and not all water jets have abrasive material, just high PSI
I agree the water jet wasn't a great example for what he was trying to explain. Water is very imcompressible so quicksilver hitting water while moving beyond the speed of sound should cause an explosion. His initial acceleration beyond the speed of sound should also cause multiple sonic booms which in a confined space should deafen or injure everyone but QS. The physics of any object accelerating as speedsters do is completely broken unless they are shown to obliterate everything around them. Like one of the other comments said, dash in the incredibles is basically the limit before we get into sonic-boom-man who wrecks everything around him.
I've always been confused by whether quicksilver is a fast guy or if his superpower is kinda stopping or slowing down time. Because when he's not running, things are still in slow motion
The problem with the waterjet thing is it's not just water. The water is the medium and it carries an abrasive that does the cutting. I didn't know that for a long time.
I like how in Invincible the speedster mentions how EVERYTHING in the world is painfully slow to him. The biggest issue isn't how they move so fast, but how they EVER do anything normal at all. It's like Drax moving so slowly you can't see him, only speedsters are doing that to not atomize you when they shake your hand.
This is a perfect example of what the writing community calls the “Pandoras Box Paradox” as in, you establish a character has a certain use with a power, or something within the context of your story is possible, which completely changes how everything works simply because of that one thing. And now in order to not be bullshit, you have to write AROUND that thing. Because if you don’t…. This video happens. (I’ve unfortunately written a few pandoras boxes in my stuff and I’m trying to remedy them before I move on to actually releasing the story so this was a partial rant of my own personal experience :/)
@ indeed. And my stupid self forgot that I allowed a character to use physics based “magic” to bend spacetime so he can fly, and then continued to write other characters using the same magic and them never flying
Many moons ago when Quicksilver first appeared in comics, he was as fast as mach 10 (according to google) which is 10 times the speed of sound an nowhere near the speed of light. That being said, I remember reading him being only as fast as twice the speed of sound in comic such as The Amazing Spiderman, I think.
Things have changed and now he is able to reach light speed . Which does not make sense because he doesn't have anything like the Speedforce to bend physics
@@nelsonisc9670 it's not about the speed coming from speedforce but the physics bending- i.e magical protection that breaks the rules of physics. you know Newtons laws right. and that power = mass times acceleration? just imagine that he touches something at superspeed. if he's not like i can take 1000 nukes to the face durable he'd lose an arm each time he touches something. or wouldnt even touch anything because the air friction alone would burn it off anyway. - speedforce is just the magic way to skip that because it surrounds him while he runs and makes him kinda skip those parts.
@Extra_Onions Being a speedster alone defies physics so it's not a stretch to say why guys with no speedforce excuse to rely on doesn't insta nuke the planet when they run is because their power work in a way it prevents such from happening Being a speedster also comes with their logics
@@nelsonisc9670 you didn't understand what i was trying to say, Quicksilver can reach light speed but how come he doesn't cause destruction to his surroundings? that's the thing am talking about even tho I absolutely do not care about physics accuracy and logic in comicbook media but previousstly Quicksilver himself stated that he can cause Earthquakes but now they have forgotten that
Is that true? It’s been a while since I’ve seen the movie, but didn’t he try to steal Charles body after trying to get HIM to send a message to all humanity? If he could get any superpower he wants, why couldn’t he just get mass telepathy or something Unless, he need Charles to do it with cerebro (idk how to spell it). But if that was the case, he could have given himself a better form of telepathy so he could relay a message to everyone on earth by himself? That’s the problem with the statement “he can give himself any superpower he wants”. He would LITERALLY BE UNKILLABLE if that were the case. If he can do that, he could just give himself super-speed and just kill anyone who tries to stop his plan in ending humanity or whatever? Or give himself, idk, REALITY OR PROBABILITY manipulation, and then turn all his enemies into SPAGHETTI. Assuming he can give himself ”ANY” super power somehow, that ruins the entirety of the story, plot and stakes of the whole movie, since he can whip out some power like, “oh, you look at me, and you turn into atoms” and nobody can do anything against it
How would he be able to give himself superspeed… in superspeed? His brain is not physically capable of thinking and recognising objects in a nanosecond, so how would he be able to give himself superspeed that quickly? Plus, he walks up to quicksilver in regular speed, doesn’t use superspeed for the rest of the film, and doesn’t give himself anymore powers at will in order to win, so clearly it’s not something he’s capable of doing
@ yes he can. He is just that powerful. Not to mention that quicksilver couldn’t physically harm Apocalypse. Dude has soloed a celestial. The only x-man that would stand a chance is Gene Gray, and realistically she needs the Phoenix Force at that. Apocalypse is just that powerful.
Nice analysis! Thanks! I've always thought that speedsters are problematic. The thing about Quicksilver in the XMen movies, though, is that he's SO funny! He's enjoying what he's doing, which you rarely see ANY character do.
The durability point is one that I’ve been preaching for a while and I’m glad you brought it up! All speedsters have to be insanely durable just to keep their feet from exploding while they run. Speedsters are consistently shown to be somehow physically weak in comparison to other heroes. Makes 0 sense.
Jean Grey doesn't have superspeed. But The Phoenix Force does. It's a neigh omnipotent force, much like Galactus and the Celestials, so that doesn't infuriate me at all. A lot of the others, however, does. Writers are idiots most of the time.
The one vs Apocalypse made sense to me. Looked like he got surprised and "turned off" his speed mode beause of the surprise. He also looked like he was constantly switching gears to punch Apocalypes around. He lost cause he was cocky. The one with Jean Gray is strange. I remembet Martian Man Hunter once said he couldn't read Flash's mind when he thinks at super speed.
Yes, and MMH is known to actually HAVE super-speed. Not at Flash' level, but somewhere in the range of Superman, Shazam and Wonder Woman. Jean Grey has never, to my knowledge, in any incarnation been said to have 'super-speed'. Oh well, it was a crap movie for other reasons worse than this one.
No it makes no sense for him to be "surprised" by that. He was moving and thinking in super speed the moment Apocalypse tried to bind his legs with dirt, from Quicksilver's perspective that dirt would have been moving so slowly it may as well be not moving at all. You can't even surprise Quicksilver with a bullet fired from a gun, how the fᴜck would he be surprised by slow moving dirt?
@@ProjectILT Its because he was shifting gears. If he didn't adjust his speed up and down, he would wait forever between each punch before Apocalypse flew to his new location for a follow up punch. When he was running around, he was not at full gear speed the same as he was outrunning an explosion. His super speed is not either on or off settings only. There seems to be adjustable nuance to it.
Surprise effect aside, he was moving probably around the speed of sound. No dirt would be able to withstand such speed, even more so since later the Beast could break it easily. Writers are bad physicists.
@@ixiahj That just begs the question of, "Why does he have to wait for Apocalypse to fly to some distance before he hits him again?" It would make far more sense to just keep hitting him again and again and again and again ... all at one spot, each time delivering ridiculous kinetic energy. All in a milisecond.
In comics characters may not have super speed in the sense of going from point A to B but they have super fast reflexes. Which is usually how they tag speedsters as speedsters tend to fall into patterns when they fight.
This is all from OSP's Red (trope talk: character deaths), but if Quicksilver had survived in the MCU, we may have had him and Wanda fighting in Civil War, he could have fought Thanos and realistically lost since he's slower and weaker than other versions of Quicksilver. If he survived the snap he may have spent his time running around and trying his best to help anywhere he can, broken by the loss of his sister, and then in endgame his twin sister comes back, but suddenly he's older than her. The biggest problem with the MCU Quicksilver's death is not just that the way he dies is dumb, but also that his death stopped any interesting things with him from even happening.
This is simply what happens when writers and others making the movie think "Wouldn't this be cool". They think a scene would look amazing and they can show off with CGI and camera techniques, but it is totally physics breaking. At the speeds he is moving when he dips his finger in the flying soup, it would produce enough heat to flash boil the liquid. And he couldn't run along walls because the force of his foot impacting at those speeds would be so many times stronger than a jackhammer, he would simply punch through the wall like a bullet. Speedsters need some practical limits in place for anything they do to be possible.
The villains in the comics demolish quicksilver in the movies, but that’s not fair. You have to compare quicksilver in the movies to the villains in the movies because, as has been shown time and time again, everyone is SIGNIFICANTLY weaker
@@ravioliman4319 it's hard to showcase what the villain can do in movies because their powerset is so vast, him being able to adapt to quicksilver's speed and predict his movements isn't surprising
The comics industry suffers from extreme power creep. As someone who collected comics in the 70s, 80s, and early 90s, I don't even recognize my favorite characters anymore.
He’s not “slowing down time” he’s just accelerating his thoughts process. He’s thinking at super speed which makes everything seem slow by comparison. I’m not excusing plot holes, but there are a few things you missed. One, he’s still a “teenage dirtbag” type… he’s never actually seen combat or anything and he’s used to always winning… he basically lives life in god mode so he doesn’t know how to deal with an actual threat. He can think fast, sure… but he can only think of things he knows… if he panics or encounters a situation he’s never been in, he doesn’t even know what to do. Two, he can vary his speed. He typically runs “just fast enough” to not burn too much energy and still do everything he wants. Like the escape scene, being faster than bullets was more than enough and probably only pushed him to a fast jog in effort. The explosion was the equivalent of a hard sprint, it burns through his energy fast hence why he stopped to eat pizza… lol my guess is that he assumed he could walk all over apocalypse and went at him at minimum speed. He wasn’t using his full power at the start because he’s cocky and has never been in an actual combat situation where anyone is a threat to him. Three, speedsters including quicksilver aren’t actually all that durable. They typically have a slight “force field” that protects them from the effects of friction and minor impacts like dust, water drops… etc. in fact, that’s probably what limited his speed in the first sequence because those water drops probably did hurt.. like getting shot with a weak air soft gun. Once you grab a speedster, they’re a bit stronger and more durable than a regular athletic adult. If you have telekinesis and super strength you can absolutely grab them and break a limb. Again, not excusing plot holes… just explaining how it works. Speedsters are some of my favorite comic character types, and I’m a big fan of Flash and I’ve read a decent amount of comics with Quicksilver. Quicksilver is canonically not nearly as fast as Flash but he’s a mutant and doesn’t rely on the speed force. They both have advantages and disadvantages to their powers. Also, Pietro is typically a much darker and more aggressive character willing to fight dirty… Flash (Barry/Wally) are the more classic “Boy Scout” style heroes.
technically I think all speed, momentum and even progress relies on the speed force. It's the force behind momentum itself all things need to move even life and death moves, the speed force is behind all of it so the flash being connected to it directly means all momentum, all life, progress and movement is backing him up. Anyone that moves is only allowed to do so because the speed force exists, the flash can outrun death itself because death still exists under the speed force while the flash exists in the speed force or directly connects to it.
Right?! Apocalypse and Jean Grey/Phoenix most certainly can stop Quicksilver in the comics, so I'm not understanding why people have a hard time seeing how that happened in the movies.
Comic book movies are made to appeal to a bigger set of people than only comic book fans. For maximizing profit. But marvel comics has been running for some 1000 years now and we got only about 2 movies with quicksilver. Comic book Movie-watching people don't have the context about why apocalypse and Jean grey are able to defeat a speedster. We all know what speed is. We have context to imagine what a speedster is capable of. But we haven't seen the psychics do anything that can compete with a speedster. We don't have context. Yeah, you might be the most powerful magician, but before you can think about doing something, speedster should have already punched you with supersonic speed. So them defeating speedsters looks unfair.
Because the comics aren't the movies. The characters come from the comics, yes, but there's also like a hundred different iterations of the same character from different comics. Not every hulk is world breaker hulk. Not ever spider man is spidersman (who is just a bunch of spiders pretending to be a man.) Or Spider mam, when peter died and his ant became a super hero instead. So if you make a spider man movie, there's no 1 correct source to draw from. So its easiest to just make a new spider man that'll appeal to a much wider audience, ones that likely didn't read the comics.
The Phoenix Force was aware, it didn’t need to be showcased in the movie. Same with Apocalypse, after eating a couple of punches, he caught on and adapted.
love how you grossly misquote a guy at 4:17, who said "I think of it less as Jean having super speed, and more of an "oh wow any neurological phenomena really is at her disposal, that's crazy" and said that the guy said she had super-speed. The heck? Yeah, she can subconsciously sense neurological phenomena - that's a part of her power. What's more, a huge part of Quicksilver's power is inertia control. He was able to tank the water droplets because he's allowing inertia to work closer to his perception than to real time. He's not super durable. You just aren't acknowledging how his powers work.
Look at her arm in the clip. She’s moving at super speed which makes no sense. She had to do a gesture to control the floating objects. She also has to be able to react to those neurological phenomenons which means she also has to be able to think in super speed.
This is why I love Terry Pratchett’s *Thief of Time.* The monks of Oi Dong can slice time to move more quickly, but there are hard limits on what their bodies can endure and how hard it becomes just to move through air. All of Discworld is wonderful, but this book is a particular gem.
Would love to see a series, where the main character has superspeed with realistic outcomes (winning every fight, doing everything in superspeed) and being stupidly OP.
its so weird how unless the movies perspective of a speedster is slowed down, theyre completely normal, like if theyre not in super speed, theyre super heightened senses and reflexes just turn off
I think a “speedster” done perfectly is David Martinez from Cyberpunk Edgerunners. The Sandevistan has limitations, but while active he’s untouchable by anyone other than Adam Smasher, who also has a sandevistan
You're going with the "that's not possible" thing about a character in a superhero movie? I've got one: he was using a walkman before they existed, and could hear the music. the tape would melt if played at that speed. We could do this all day about every character in every superhero movie. Just unhook your brain, relax, and enjoy.
quicksilver is so underrated, im dissapointed they lost in dumb ways. I really hope they will come back in future movies and show how resourceful and useful they can be. Going super long distances and back to grab something, stopping time and moving things to gain access or help save people etc. endless possibilities.
this is great you should do a video on iron mans suit. like they can say all they want about shock absorption but no matter how much protection his interactions/ fights throughout the movies would turn him to jelly.
Regarding the apocalypse fight. You have to also understand that Apoc is also ridiculously underrated in the movie. Dude has been collecting mutant powers for like 3 millennia.
How I perceive speedsters is that the time In a bottle scene is when they can finally think normally. The world around them moves so slow they purposely slow down time to not go insane. The power allows faster processing, while conscious. Conversations can feel like years to centuries. Remember some iterations of the flash has him going to the library reading every book about construction, architecture, engineering, etc, while a burning building full of people in it that he was helping. And fully repairing the building within that that whole situation.
Valid points, valid points.. but I remember one thing that Stan Lee said, the point is something like this: you are writing the story, if you want this hero to lose to this hero, you will make it happen.
Guys when I say "he can slow down time" I mean he can make time appear slow to him because of his perception. Needed to clear that up.
2 of them are the best mind readers in the xmen universe. He can think fast but he would still have to plan out their moves and react to what they are doing. Most of the speed character a very cocky and arrogant and that is usually what does them in. Dont forget they are omega level mutants for a reason both can change the persons perception of event or even freezing them shown by professor x. Id agree with you on the on the avengers though. Though didnt watch the apocalypse movie so i dont know if he had the power to absorb others powers in it but if the included it or not. Mind powers are so over powered they would explain a lot of this
great to see people comment on superspeed. you nailed all the problems with the depiction or understanding of superspeed. one of the funniest observations to make, and you'll find some youtube parody vids, when travelling at 'superspeed' and thus slowing down time for their perceptions, they are moving in 'normal speed', ergo if a superspeedster had to run a great distance like across a continent, they would literally, in their time frame 'be running' for a REALLY REALLY long time... as long as it would take a normal person to run a continent. ofcourse the solution is that speedsters are able to increase and decrease their perceptive superspeed like a throttle. so when they do finer work they throttle up, and when more mundane straight runs, they throttle down. Anyway, yeah, superspeed is the most powerful superhero ability.... which few, even comic book writers, can comprehend. Would be nice if someday, a good nerd writer would do it justice.
Talk about cope, like why are you defending goofy plot holes.@@shinysoles-v2z
Lmao😂, who tf is confused this video was worded perfectly and very easy and entertaining to follow
Interesting takes.
If speedsters had consistency, they would genuinely never lose.
They would, you just need to introduce characters that have like, insane durability so the speedster can't one shot em, stuff like conceptual manipulation, time manipulation, plot manipulation and the likes of those absurdly op abilities
One way to beat a speedster : you spread in the air a product that is lethal but only later (a slow chemical reaction or a virus whatever). The speedster won't see you coming, will breath it and die later.
Same with Ant-Man. That's why he's always missing in action or on house arrest.
Almost. If a speedster stayed consistent the write would have to do WAY more work. Quicksilver is the first or The Flash have elements of what they need, a limit. The limit for Quicksilver is him getting tired: use this to make him have to save too many people or something , anything that would result in him not being able to not lose any situation and have to pick and choose between saving people and or beating every threat. The Flash has a similar but different limit: He has to refill his tank, he's not shown eating nearly enough in later seasons, he should also be eating Goku big meal quantities EVERY meal after a MAJOR fight and even more so after injuries. This all stuff is everyday non-writers thought of. Writers just need to write better sense or stop writing speedsters because we either see them get nerfed or lose to trash logic. The Mr Freeze guy in flash is among the stupidest things i've had the misfortune to witness.
@@Stone_Squared that's not a good solution, that just transfers the power problem to that person. Now you have a power creep.
Quicksilver is practically a god in the xmen movies yet he still gets beat in stupid ways
Plot is always the reason when it comes to speedsters 😂
Fr
Fox is stupid and never really cared enough about the characters to get their abilities right, just close enough to get film in a can and on a screen so they got paid.
Can't say I agree w/ stupid ways in the Xmen movies. He got stopped by Apocalypse and Phoenix in the Xmen movies... Those 2 situations would completely pan out. In MCU he got killed by a machine gun.
They're all powerful or weak as the plot requires. Look at Bucky in his movie vs every other movie he's in. Wanda Maximoff is a god compared to any other witch yet Agatha Harkness had the upper hand until the TV series was almost over. Spiderman is always super strong yet Vulture bullied him in Homecoming when he wasn't wearing his super suit.
Moving at normal speeds while perceiving the world in slow motion is already insane but quicksilver is moving at unreactable speeds in slow motion
yeah like honestly the "time in a bottle" scene as the viewer watches it is basically as it's written from the perspective of quicksilver. that's how overpoweringly fast he is
I was just thinking about over powered supercharacters the other day. One another who went ridiculously powerful with just some little training is Doctor Strange.
@@magnuskallas If you remember though dr strange is basically a genius. Not as Smart as Bruce or Stark but he is up there. Plus he got control over the time stone fairly early. If he used the time stone to pause time couldn't Strange have been training for a very long time but to everyone else basically no time had passed? That is what I assumed happed. Plus he was being trained by someone who had already mastered the mystical arts. unlike other hero's who had to figure out there powers/abilities on there own.
@@tjsmead1844 I had to check it again, and while you make sense, Dr Strange was the character that introduced "magic" to Marvel, to create a new market next to genetic mishaps, hi-tec, and yes, aliens. It still kind of proves the point that he has always been the odd one.
Is unreactable a word?? Doesn't seem like it. What does it mean?? Slowsilver is fodder compared to Comic Flash and is far slower than even his own comic counterparts. Moving slow enough to perceive everything in slow motion is also below light speed. Many characters can go Faster than Light which in of itself isn't very impressive considering the higher tiers above Infinite Speed such as Inaccessible, Immeasurable and Irrelevant.
4:38 the real reason jean gray was able to move quick enough to throw quicksilver out of the air was because the film maker wanted jean to be OP
Also she could hear his thoughts before he even started moving so she could predict his path to get to her that’s what I think
They overuse Jean Grey/Dark Phoenix with no character development or power explanation. Thus putting her character at a major disadvantage, with no real back story to explain her relationship to the Phoenix. They repeatedly blundered this character.....and now all they have left from Xmen world are Deadpool and the Wolverine. What a waste of plot potential.
His entire perception of reality could be whatever Jean wanted him to think. He could have been fast asleep during that entire scene for all we know, and it took place in the mental plane
@@dmonk926 If the filmmakers actually had the capacity to understand the character's powers on such a level you bet your sweet behind they wouldn't have hesitated a second to spell that out to the audience (who they clearly believe are beneath them intellectually).
@@ThorbitYTexactly, she got into his thoughts
Physics completely falls apart for speedsters unless you invent additional magic powers. For example, gravity alone makes it impossible for quicksilver to propel himself at that speed, so either gravity becomes insanely more powerful for him alone, or he can actually direct his body in any direction at will, not requiring him to actually push off of the ground.
The first step at that speed would launch him into orbit
This is a perfect comment.
But the video is ready to accept that a power like quicksilver exists, but fucking PHOENIX AND APOCALYPSE shouldn't beat him. My dude those two just existing is enough for the audience to suspend their disbelief.
The media form being a movie make for less run time wasted on exposition. So Apocalypse being shown adapting to quicksilver power so quickly is a good way to show the level of threat the heroes are dealing with.
Being so strong that only two mutants with literally apocalyptic level of destruction powers are the ones to beat you is not bullshit
Nobody is saying phoenix and apocalypse shouldn’t be able to beat him but make it make sense.
You can’t just write crap because one character is meant to be a higher threat than the other.
@Igorteddede só the expository dialogs I'm both movies explaining the phoenix and apocalypse powers and how much of a threat they are is what? Lies?
They SHOW apocalypse adapting In real time. And we can't even know if he could free himself. Because he's only freed after they deal with him
Same goes for phoenix powers
I mean come on man. Just don't interact with the media. You're asking for pizza and expecting a steak
@ Okay to be honest I forgot that adapting was part of apocalypse powers.
However there is nothing in Phoenix’s power set that enables her to defeat quicksilver the way she did, we literally see her hand move when everything is in slow motion, that would mean she also has super speed which we know she doesn’t.
@@Igorteddede you do know that the phoenix is basically omnipotent right?
I mean if anyone was nerfed for the movies it was the phoenix force.
There's no such thing as winning against her because it will just turn into a cosmic egg and take another host.
Again. Quicksilver alone should never be able to defeat both of the most powerful forces in the entire x-man universe
At this point I'm convinced that its impossible to write a speedster faster than Dash (Incredible) while also making them reasonable.
You mean dash but I get the vision/point.
@lightning10053 oh yeah u right
jake paul is way more faster than all of them!!!
I think Wally West was written incredibly well in Young Justice. Big part of that is getting rid of the Speed Force bc it’s literally a cheap way to do random bullshit go
@ain3sh yeah would be cool to have a speedster who cannot just go super fast all the time because of the consequences it would have for the environment like constantly breaking sound barrier
5:36 being able to perceive the hammer in slow motion should mean that he could've just let go
Yeah I was coming to say that too lol. He would have grabbed it, realized it was pulling him, and just let go way before it actually pulled him enough to do anything
@@LoganH0076 maybe shit shocked him and got him to lose focus
lettin go of ordinary items maby but thors hammer is pretty much an immovable object for QS and he can only figure that out by actually holdin the hammer so even if QS lets go of the hammer the moment he realizes it wont budge QS is now traveling at the same speed and direction as the hammer as it is now imparting its direction and momentum into QS janking him of his feet
@BishopGantry No to the entire second part of this rant. Him gaining momentum in the direction of the hammer by holding it doesnt mean that he wouldve gotten flung. Think about it, the momentum he gained was only enough to accelerate him to the velocity of the hammer- a hammer that was relatively super slow.
@@Externex Quicksilver isnt worthy to mjolnir so if he grabs it in midair hes along for the ride just as the hulk was along for the ride when he tried to grab mjolnir in midair while not being worthy they where both pulled of their feets due to the momentum mjolnir was moving at
I liked MCU Quicksilver, but I hated the way he died because it did not make sense. I would like to know how the other movies would play out with him.
I hope we see a what if of him
Marvel didnt have the right of X men by that time, so they needed him purely for the character developement
Totally agree. His death was the beginning of all the bullshit movies... a foreshadowing of it.
I guess they used his death to develope his sisters story. Feige just didn't seem interested in this version of quicksilver.
Instead we got fucking scarlet witch 😭
I'm going to defend MCU Quicksilver. Yes he can see bullets in slow motion but he gets tired throughout the final battle. It wouldn't be a stretch to say he gets slower throughout the battle. You even show a clip of him stopping to take a breather. He's already tired by the time he saves them and problem isn't even looking at the bullets coming at him and just grabbed them
plus he would have had to slow down to move the car in the way, he couldnt just shove it at super speed, he'd have to slow down a little so it wouldnt have inertia, so he probably got hit as he was about to start moving, then moved a few feet before realizing he was a dead man walking
also its not clear if he moves hawkeye or if he moves the car, he probably moves hawkeye though which makes even more sense. He had to slow down to move hawkeye and the kid and had to be in the wrong place at the wrong time to do it but did it anyway
I thought what they meant to depict was quicksilver being shot as he moved them away which kind of makes sense. He's already tired, injured and it was a last minute decision
1:31 finally someone who gets how durable and nigh invulnerable a speedster needs to be.
What about his clothes?
@@alekkost The did a good job of this in No Ordinary Family, where she need special clothes.
In real life this makes sense but yall have to remember this shit is comics. Even when they try to use real life logic in powers 10/10 that shit doesn’t matter fr
@@bezzytv4625 Yeah fr I never understand why people want everything to be realistic, just enjoy the thing for what it is lol
5:05 not to mention, why does he fall at super speed? He doesn’t speed up gravity.
It's convenient. the easiest way to take away a speedsters advantage is to get them off the ground. The writers realised he would basically be stuck in the air and super convenient to kill for Wanda.
@@CursedCapsuleStudiodid you just answer his question with a totally different answer 🤯
@@CursedCapsuleStudiohe didn't ask if he was convenient for the writers to keep them in the air so he couldn't run he asked why Quicksilver fell out of the sky like a goddamn bullet at super speed I didn't know quicksilver could control gravity.
@LittleQ-ko6fl
I will have to take the L here because I didn't explain it completely and I went of course with my answer.
it's the same thing. Even if he is going to fall, there must be consistency in his movement, or else it is jarring for the audience.
The reason he falls in the first place is because of the convenience. I hope this makes what I was trying to say clearer
@@LittleQ-ko6fl I think you give the writers too much credit, but, yes, that's what should have happened, without a foothold, Quicksilver would end up floundering in the air and have to resort to swimming motions and looking really silly.
Speedsters fundamentally don't make sense in our physical reality. At even the lower end of these speeds air would be swmming in molassis and inertia would completely overwhelm traction to the ground making it impossible to stop or turn. Also deafening sonic booms any time you move. Anyone you move would be ripped apart to chunks and have all their organs liquefied - even if you could somehow survive it. At the higher ends like Flash it becomes even stupider with just the movement itself causing massive, potentially planet-ending explosions. Approaching relativistic speeds almost anything could happen.
But yea - superspeed with equal level of thinking/reactions even at a very low level would be hard to beat with most other powers - and it necessarily has to include many other powers like super-strength, super-durability and flight to make any sort of sense. At that point you are essentially Superman.
The closest we can come to experience something like this is probably in the VR game "super hot". Very highly recommended if you have the gear to play it. It demonstrates just how ridiculously OP even highly limited superspeed is.
The flash they use the speed force as their catchall excuse for why it works. When running fast from the speed force it doesn't impact the world around them etc. The problem for DC is then, explain superman and why him traveling at those speeds doesn't wreck everything.
@@Ahglock The speedforce ends up being too convenient.
supernatural powers
Most speedsters don't use physical prowess to move fast. They can alter time in some way like shift their own relative time compared to everything else. How personal time dilation like that interacts in an atmosphere, no one knows but its comics.
If Superman tries to catch up to the Flash, Supes would cause a sonic boom yet Flash won't and he can still speed up.
It definitely works if space time is dilated around you similar to anti-gravity proportion, instead, it would be Anti times space proportion
I agree with almost everything in this video, I want to just point out a few things.
1:45 water jet cutters add an abrasive material in the water to allow them to cut through things like glass and metal, but even without it just water at that speed could cut fingers.
3:00 Apocalypse was shown to copy other powers when they are being used against him, like how he used telepathy only when Xavier was using it near him, so when the camera zooms in on his eyes and they start moving very fast is when he started copying Quicksilver's super speed. You could say he shouldn't be able to do that because it happened in too short an amount of time for him to think, but maybe his power copying ability activates automatically. But you're right, Quicksilver should have been able to break that sand.
5:36 you could argue that even this shouldn't happen, since from his perspective the hammer is moving very slowly, so when he grabs it, he would notice that he can't move it and that the hammer is slowly pulling him backwards, so he would just let go.
See this I can understand better. his eyes go silver he adopts qicksilver speed, this allowed him to see and trap him. but they seem to link his silvered eyes to the ground change so...writers...
Apocalypse most certainly should be able to stop Quicksilver. Simply put, in the comics Apocalypse is one of the most powerful of all mutants...
I'm a little fuzzy on how the movies portrayed Apocalypse, but I believe he was considered an immortal entity that could transfer from body to body and retain all the abilities from previous hosts. He's literally being written as a god. I may be incorrect in my understanding of the situation, but as long as he goes one on one, no one is getting the better of him.
@@legion5463 Correct, very few would be able to take him 1 on 1. Phoenix could, but not really anyone else in the Avengers or Xmen movies... Scarlet Witch would give him a lot of trouble. And Magneto technically could if they had him go absolutely rageful like he did in Age of Apocalypse comics. But Magneto in his normal mentality wouldn't be able to destroy Apocalypse...
This is still a stupid argument. If QS can move at the 6000 the speed of sound, you won't see him. Even if Apo's power react automatically, it is still not enough time for him to be able to copy QS's super speed. Plus how fast must the sand move to be able to trap QS, that means the sand built up faster than QS moves. For me, no matter how you argue it, it is still not really acceptable.
6:51 they had to nerf and kill him cause he will only get better with his powers like wanda. Which will make all the consequent movies too easy for the hero team
You can still kill someone in a smart way. Hell just let him live until Thanos arrives and with the time stone just freeze his ass. Makes way more sense than bullet that should have hit him hit him because he lagged in the server.
The next avengers movie is the endgame ones, and the mcu quicksilver at the time doesnt have the strength to even phase thanos. Could have triggered an interesting sub-plot around him hiding the stones and gave the wizard dude something to do other than get folded by Dr. Strange. If they *had* to kill him, they should've had Ultrons laser do it. At least then it would be understandable since its a light speed laser beam.
2:24 those people would get a broken neck, he is not holding their heads. Writers forgot about that rule. the scene still looks awesome as hell
Yeah that's one thing that's very unrealistic in the scene, the people would be blown to bits, it would be like a rocket flying through them
@@gilibertusthetiny there’s so many unrealistic things about these movies that it’s silly to focus on just this one thing
You should make a video about how sonic went from perceiving time in slow-motion in the first sonic movie to barely being able to run faster then a car in the second movie
Sonic is afraid water. So it was like a mental block. But yeah he should be able to do it with ease
@@chimmychanga6798 He does do it in the second movie but I do see your point.
Well, I remember him saying he fell into the pacific ocean in the first movie when he was trying to run on water in the first movie.
Soooo...
@@ThatAnArchyDude Look at the bar scene in the first movie.
@@yesbutcooler Yeah... what about it?
Don't see what that has to do with mentioning him having trouble running on water in the second movie like it was some change when it wasn't because he had the same problem in the first movie.... literally, the same movie with the bar scene in question.
So there was no point in even bringing up the second movie to illustrate your point.
So your point is stronger when considering he had that same problem in the same movie.
only good thing about the boys was showing how insanely overpowered their speedster character is at any given moment. Literally took a random heart attack to beat the a train.
Wasn’t a random heart attack
Yeah I think it was the first movie to show what would probably really happen hitting a stationary object while moving that fast. It would explode
@@Iechner show, not movie
the way more good things about that show
Only good thing? I bet ur a sensitive loser who can only watch Disney shows 😭
Quicksilver and other speedsters perceive the world as moving extremely slowly; when they don't hold back their powers, everything around them seems to pause even while they remain still. Consequently, when they slow down to match the world's pace, they often become restless- a state Quicksilver frequently pointed out.
I would like to add that speedsters are also extremely fast thinkers, as their mental processes must keep pace with their physical movements.
I always wondered how they could transport regular people at super speed without breaking their entire skeletons or crushing their organs.
A-Train, in the Boys, running into Hughie's girlfriend comes to mind.
He would have crazy momentum at 5:00 and would not fall like that with how fast he was going, he would barrel straight into jane.
Was just about to say exactly this, he would still fly directly into her, great comment
Killing her instantly, but plot gravity is just too strong
6:11 Even if he had not seen the bullet coming, approaching from a blind spot, his reaction speed is such that at the moment of contact, he could move out of its way.
Yeah, but look where it was going if he did.
@@Nutshellboundcould have easily moved out of the way and moved the bullet as well. Didn't have to get hit. 😊
@@peterburch1108 seems to me if it misses him it's still headed in Wanda's general direction though. Saying it looked deliberate.
@@NutshellboundHe is moving far faster than the bullet he can literally move it out of the way without getting injured
How to fix speedsters:
1. Don't make them freeze time.
2. If they do freeze time, don't make them use super speed while also freezing time.
Having Two contradictory powers, very nice.
Firstly speedsters can't coexist with normal environment scientifically
Because if there is something moving faster than speed of sound there will be production of SONIC BOOM which will destroy it's surroundings.
They don’t freeze time they think at super speed and therefore time to them is considerably slower. If they aren’t able to react and think at super speed they won’t be able to turn or stop at all
Just make a movie where everyone involved in the plot is a speedster, including the bad guys. It worked well for the flash I'm the first seasons, despite, of course, the horrendous writing whenever non speedsters were involved
Option 3: If they do freeze/slow time, they also freeze/slow all photons and molecular movement of foreign objects. Their vision goes completely/nearly black while stationary, and they can only see the photons that are in the direct path of their eyeballs as they run and collide with said photons (meaning severe tunnel vision). Their surroundings feel incredibly cold while stationary (as their own body's molecules are moving significantly faster than their surroundings), and unbearably hot while moving fast (as they're being bombarded with pressure and friction from the air).
The faster they move, the more detrimental forces they experience. Thus a natural limit is created as to how quickly they can move if they want to remain living.
I’ve already seen this here in the thread, but I’m very glad this video exists, while also breaking down every aspect of the ‘fast’ charcters. it more than just speed like you said, it’s speed, durability, essentially freezing time, and having the mental cognition or brain power or what have you, to even be able to compute all of that rapid fire information and coordinate it properly. they are essentially OP tactical geniuses
With Apocalypse 2:40 im pretty sure he was following Quicksilver with the ground, you can hear the pulses Quicksilver was giving off on the ground (It could be a heart beat but either way hes following him with the sound of the steps). That's why Apocalypse was able to root him.
I love how you confidently give this explanation when Quicksilver moves at multiple times of the speed of sound.
@@FiscHwaecgpretty sure he means feel the pulses
@@FiscHwaecg8000 times the speed of sound as well lol
Human reaction time is .2 seconds and quicksilver would have moved 2 million kilometres before any reaction
@ I don’t think anyone in that scene is human
3:06 Did you not see him gaining enhanced perception in that scene or just missed it? When your eyes track or focus on something your pupils & irises contracts his did so dramatically trying to gain a new power
Still didn't explain why QS didnt stay in super speed and dig himself free
@ the rock goes into his skin
Nah fr like idk if he actually gained super speed but it was clearly trying to infer him adjusting and having super speed perception same with Jean grey that moment was to show how powerful she was that a guy who is that quick can’t even catch her off guard I do still think the rock boot was a dumb way to trap him they definitely should’ve came up with something more creative and consistent or just him knocking his lights out like super man slowly figuring out the flash’s patterns and needing just one good hit to take him out
@@yeahok6240 To that, I would think that Apocalypse would just actively keep him locked in the sand as QS tried to free himself. Still doesn't explain how he moved the sand faster than QS could move, but idk how that power works.
@@yeahok6240so the guy’s supposed to just keep moving after his leg is trapped in whatever tf that was? 💀
It all comes down to superhero stories revolving around "what looks cool". It's the same reason starships fly like airplanes, alien women are always hot, and explosions always make that big orange gasoline fireball no matter what kind of explosive is used.
You can't expect much else from a medium that relies on mass-audience appeal.
Hahaha, i always laugh when cars in movies crash and the engine is fine but it blows up anyway and the explosions are always huge.
The gasoline thing is partially for safety reasons. IIRC, those are a lot more controllable than, say, C4 or dynamite.
I've never seen an aeroplane go from 0 to 55,000 MPS+ in less than a second or fly directly vertical and out into space and then bend space in front of it to travel to other Galaxies.
Do you mean that ships fly forward?? Well real life spacecraft do that and it helps them continuously fall back onto the Earth to achieve orbit. Even satellites do that too.
They don't fly backwards otherwise that would completely contradict momentum, energy conservation, inertia and basic thermodynamics as things and objects don't move backwards when having force or momentum applied to them unless altered by exotic particles. Like negative mass and movement particles like the theoretical Gravitons.
@@CerealExperimentsMizuki I think they're referring to the fact that a lot of space movies depict space craft doing aerial maneuvers, dodging asteroids, and doing combat generally like what you would've seen WWII planes flying around doing in non space age movies. In reality, even in the most dense regions of the asteroid belt, asteroids are hundreds of thousands of miles apart on average and so no craft would really be dodging anything, and space combat would take place entirely differently because of the vast distances between objects and the speeds they would be traveling. However, having the crew freak out as the craft does barrel rolls to dodge asteroids is more exciting.
Somehow alien women always have massive jugs even when it doesn’t make sense for them to have mammalian traits lolol
Great video, consider looking into Beast Boy, he opened pandora's box too by transforming into alien species, the things he transforms into in some of the comic book canons make him theoretically insanely powerful
Does he have to KNOW about the alien, or can he just think "I need something that can crush an Imperial destroyer", and his power will rummage through the cosmos and find that giant asteroid snake from Empire Strikes Back?
I am not an expert or anything I just fell into a rabbit hole one day, but I think he has to know about the entity, it wasn't just aliens either, iirc in one of the comics he turns into a Phoenix, which could open the door for Mythological beasts too
He could turn into fucking STARRO THE CONQUERE, he's badass
He can turned into a Dragon, they lowball BB to honestly give everybody else a chance.
So...he is Ben 10 now
You make some very interesting videos. Thank you for this. My remarks...
With Quicksilver vs Jean, I agree that she shouldn't have been able to counter his speed the way she did. As you correctly point out, she would need to have superspeed herself and she doesn't. Regarding the person saying she could "sense him coming" (lol, what?), even if you know a punch is coming, it doesn't matter if that punch is too fast for your reaction.
Thing is, falling would have hurt him because he doesn't have superspeed while falling and I think that, like his "strength", his "invulnerability" would also require him to be tapping into his superspeed.
I think the real issue, as is often the case with superpowers, writers don't understand nor think about every aspect of those powers. They don't think about what that water would be like to him. They don't think about the other abilities they'd have to have so they could turn on a dime or not be shredded to pieces and melted due to the air friction alone. They just go "Superspeed just means doing what anyone else could do but super fast" so they don't realize that he'd be ripped to pieces and so would anyone he was carrying if they were moving at 8,000 times the speed of sound.
A scientist (of the relevant field) could make a video doing the calculations to figure out how strong a surface would have to be to withstand that speed and then go, therefore, Quicksilver is more invulnerable than Hulk... but the reality is, the writers didn't even think about any of that. Nah, they just wanted something cool, lol.
I always loved how quicksilvers hair stayed the same…the moment he speeds up it should be flying back instantly, it would be so fun!
X-Men movies don't do any character justice.
THEY SEEM TO GET MAGNETO RiGHT [NOT YELLiNG, JUZT LiKE TYPiNG iN CAPZ]
@RicoTheCEO_
Magneto Fassbender/Mckellen
Xavier /Mcaavoy Stewart
Quicksilver
And Of Course Wolverine
The Foxverse is over-hated. They want their colorful X-Men. Watch their annoying 90s series.
Way more justice than Avengers movies did... That scene in Days of Future Past was awesome!
Yet. Lets see the new XMen, hopefully they wont keep making the Summers brothers a pair of bitches.
DeadPool was great although I think he's both MCU and Fox.
I think Wolverine is the best, almost every movie he's in is great with Hugh Jackman.
they only had permission to use QS in the MCU for 1 film so not surprised they killed him off stupidly
They had access to use him for as long as they wanted. They just couldn't call him Quicksilver, just like they couldn't call Wanda the Scarlet Witch. I think they just didn't want to deal with having a speedster (not to mention that he served as a way to raise the stakes by having a hero die without losing one of the main cast). Even after acquiring Fox, they only brought Quicksilver back as a joke.
@@SgtSupaman no the acter who played him just wanted a 1 time role so they had to kill him off
1:52 Quicksilver, as superboy, needs to have a force field protecting his clothes and everything he carries from being cut at these speeds.
I think its a fair restriction that speedster durability only applies to the physical and relativistic effects of going superspeed, and impacts on your body are capped by how hard they would hit on normal speed (and are not 0). Running into a wall still hurts quite a bit, but the same as it hurts everyone. Doesn't really make it any less op though
Using logic to explain fiction is like putting mustard on a plastic hot-dog.
THANK YOU for pointing out how unfathomably stupid it was for the MCU's Quicksilver to die while saving Hawkeye. Ever since Age of Ultron came out, I've been feeling like I was the only one who saw the problem there.
what if quicksilver tried to move them and realised he couldn't do it in time so he used himself as a shield?
@@marxkeyboards In that case, he'd be the slowest speedster of all time. Even non-speedster superheroes could have saved those people without having to die themselves.
@@IntotheBangtanUniverseWormhole whatever makes u happy
1:00 you can see the drops of water hitting his clothing. If it was simply he had durability, that would be one thing. Whatever magic he has, it's protecting him and his cloths as well. It has to be some kind of "aura" or something.
something like the speedforce, but that's for DC.
The way he super speed works (Atleast in the comics, might not apply to the movies), is that he's basically just making his body super duper light.
@@dattos140 Would that not make him super fragile and therefore anything hitting him at those speeds (including dust and water particles) would totally destroy him?
@@ShadeSlayer1911 I don't know, it's gotta be an aura of light weightness (Kinda like what that other person said), cause otherwise wouldn't his clothes fuck him up too? If it is an aura, then he would also be making the water droplets and shit super light.
ive heard once about the aura thing too. he was listening to the time in a bottle track while showing of his skills. but i assume he is able to listen to music while in speedmode because everything arround him is slow. he might be able to set stuff on normal at will.
but at the end its just overanalysing fantasy powers
I am not going to truly defend the Quicksilver/Jean Grey fight, but I will suggest a plausible reason. She has the Phoenix Force in her amping her abilities. So the moment Quicksilver thinks "I'll run at her from here" she knows his intention and removes the stepping stone debris. She's not reacting to him mid-run, she's reacting to before he even moved. It just LOOKS like she is reacting to him running.
I mean, they both have super powers too. Why can't she be allowed to have her powers be faster than her own running speed or have her powers artificially amplify her speed?
@@Anonymice That's why he points out the speed of his perception. Her powers can do a lot of things, amplifying her speed of perception/reaction is not part of it as it is for him. If it were, she would be quite literally unbeatable as her brute force telekenesis/telekenetic powers are already so absurdly powerful if her perception and reaction were to the level of picoseconds like a speedster is shown to be there's zero counter. Period. She would simply appear omnipotent and end every fight before they have a chance to realize they are IN a fight which is not shown anywhere else so obviously not true.
Apocalypse and Jean Grey/Phoenix stopping Quicksilver make complete sense if you know the comics...
Why wouldn't he react to what she's doing? She had to do it while he's in the middle of running, so that doesn't work unless she has superspeed.
@@thatrandomguyo1 I don't think you realize just how powerful phoenix is. She's one of those mutants that's essentially so powerful she's borderline goddess. Kind of like Onslaught. Theres not really a force equal to her in the current x-men cinematic universe, granted Charles come's the closest.
This is the first video I’ve seen from this channel and I had to subscribe , dope video bro 👍🏾
Thank you bro
Just paused to say speedsters don’t fucking slow down time. Their perception of time is just like 10000 times faster than ours. So a normal conversation is like years for them as they portrayed this good in the show invincible
I mean, this dude can SPEED UP even while in slow motion. And the Apocalypse can see him in slow motion? It's some kind of quantum teleportation sh*t happening in his brain.
His fight against Apocalypse is somewhat believable in the movie universe. since he could have distracted Quicksilver into breaking concentration with the leg hold to make him result in coming out of speed. And him noticing him doesnt mean he was able to fight him at the same speed, just means he could detect him since he does have alot of powers in the movie. His fight with jean only way i could say he lost that is somehow the phoenix force but i def agree that is not believeable. and MCU Quicksilver the shot in the arm he coulding have noticed the bullet but he def could have survived his death scene.
Apocalypse power is to be able to manipulate and control other mutants powers. That's how he took control of Cerebro when Xavier contacted him indirectly and how he empowered his Riders. It's reasonable to asume that he can use that power to limit or perceive Quicksilver powers. Maybe he even can "kick him out of" superspeed.
Quicksilver CAN'T come out of his perception though. He's stuck in it, that's why he has headphones on playing crazy fast music nobody else could listen to ( I don't think that'd even work, physically, but it's clear what they're trying to show) because he's unable to just enjoy himself watching normal media because it'd be agonizingly boring watching a movie for him, since he can't relax that perception.
So the idea that he got flustered and caught off guard makes no sense, he'd need to be flustered for like 3 months from his perspective.
The thing that's really dumb is there are perfectly logical ways to take out speedsters, like using light based attacks or telepathy or undetectable poisons. The way to kill a speedster isn't aiming a really good shot at where they'll be, it's tricking them into breathing in some nerve gas so they show up and drop dead before you even realize they got there.
@@Gusanoman it's a good theory, but at the same time we don't see him shutting down any other mutants powers, he has no choice but to tank them.
@@oldcat1790 Yeah, but the other powers that are used against him are pretty much useless (Mystic is awesome but she can't do any harm) except when he is overpowered. He confronts and even controls Xavier's but clearly when they team up (like five or six mutants against him if I remember right) he can't do much about it.
I actually prefer MCU Quicksilver because he displays a more realistic version of running fast. You should try doing a video on Makkari from Eternals.
Exactly. If someone was as fast as he’s portrayed with Evan Peters in X Men, who the hell could stop him without some asinine plot convenience or plot hole? Why not have him accomplish everything needing done?
Same here,the way they protrayed mcu quicksilver is actually my fav interpretation of a speedster
I don't want to cave his face in, so I prefer the MCU Quicksilver by default.
what a lot of people seem to forget is that Super speed Perception =/= omnicience, he can react to things he can percieve, meaning that if he's not expecting something to happen, like for instance the ground moving to trap one of his legs while he's focusing on the main badguy and running at super speed, he's probbly not gonna be able to react to it in time
and before people say "what about pherifieral vision" the dude is wearing goggles so his vision is obviously limited by that, not to mention the fact that QS in the clip he showed was being arrogant, he litteraly sped up to the guy, laughed and then started punching him, in his mind he was that fast, that no one could react to him, and was probbly subconsiously considering this guy a non threat
And on top of everything else, Apocalypse as potrayed in the XMMCU was the FIRST mutant, he has hundreds if not THOUSANDS of powers, not all of them are going to be as imeditatly useful as partical manipulation, if you notice QS gets quite a few punches in before Poccys eyes start twiching, that's his mind preforming thousands of calculations a second to relize whats going on, track how fast this guy was going, and predict where was the most optimum time to push his powers to stop him
the dude was litteraly re-aranging enough matter to build a prymid the size of the ones in egypt in SECONDS, is it really that far of a streach to believe he could manipulate enough matter in a couple pico seconds to trap a speederst leg
------
As for the jene grey/Pheonix scene, Speed reading thoughts, having entrie convisations is mere seconds are like....rudementry level powers for psysics in the X-men universe, jene grey was matching and surpassing Proff-X at the age of like 10, without any of the knowlage nessessary to really control that extradonary level of power, she was floating an entire culdasack worth of cars because she was scared with just brute force psysic power, she was then trained by the second most powerfull psysic in the world over the next decade to be able to be so precised with her control that she can fit a thread though a needle (she was able to hold back Cylops ocular lazers without breaking a sweat while kissing him, you know those things that TRAVEL AT OR ATLEAST NEAR LIGHT SPEED), she was then empowerd by an acient cosmic entity that multiplied her powers ten fold
reading quicksilvers mind in the pico second transition from him thinking "oke she's floating in the air, i gotta run up this debris and punch her" to him actualy doing it and not only formulating a counter plan but enacting it, would be childs play
You don't understand that even if we take the lowest estimate Quicksilver's punches should have blown huge holes in Apocalypse. And no, Jean Grey can't react to him, she did not demonstrate such abilities in subsequent fights
Ive said this all along. Imagine getting punches at 8 times the speed of sound, example if a bullet travels 700 mph and weights 7 grams, now a punch weighting in 5lbs traveling at Mach 8. This punch would literally wipe a city and vaporize the point of contact with just the kinetic energy. Assuming his arm is 5 kg: KE =1/2 (5)(2744to the pwer of 2) ≈18.8 × 10 to the power of 10 joules.
someone check his maths pls
His statement about it being able to vaporize a city is flat out wrong. That much joules would equal about 44.93 tons of tnt or city block level. Not city level.@@annunakim525
That would not vaporize a city
My guy, this isn't even 1 kilotons worth of TNT. It's not even 50 tons worth.
What city are you talking about, a Minecraft village? 😂
@daenite2480 it's 44.93 tons to be exact
4:23 No it is shown & she’s the Phoenix at this point a being that can travel light years in moments in that movie
5:58 ain't he new to his abilities? Even at the start of the film they said they may not be ready to fight
I'm glad you pointed this. I always knew there was something fishy with Quicksilver. Thankfully now we can watch a realistic show based on proper science!
One thing i find too thats crazy is that in some movies, they show the speedster slowing down time just cause they are moving insanly quickly, but then the speedsters can run at top level speeds while time is basically stopped. They are already moving at an insanse pace to keep time frozen, then they move FASTER????
I Always understood his death as him pushing a car in front of Hawkeye and being caught up in the spreading fire from ultron, and it baffled me because how the hell did he push and flip over a car if he doesn't have super strength
E=Mc2 the more faster he moves the more mass he would be the stronger he would seem at higer speeds giving that he wont rip himself apart first
@@ellpee775 E=Mc^2 is Only correct For objects That are Moving slowly Relative the Observer.
E^2 = M^2c^4 +p^2c^2
For relativistic Mass, its M(rel) = m/sqrt(1-(v/c)^2)
@@dr.blockcraft6633 it changes nothing hes got super strength through speed regardless
@@ellpee775yeah, but it’s not like Captain America or Thor’s bro barley has enough durability to run though the ultron drones and was shown getting tired overtime, even if he could why would he push a car towards them instead of just grabbing out the line of fire?
You got it right bro
1:41 the water jets are not just shooting water, they contain hard minerals like quarts, ruby or even diamond.
The water has no where near the cutting power without.
really depends on the PSI, enough pressure and even without abrasive materials it still can cut. and im not talking out my ass here, operated a CNC machine for a couple of years and not all water jets have abrasive material, just high PSI
I agree the water jet wasn't a great example for what he was trying to explain. Water is very imcompressible so quicksilver hitting water while moving beyond the speed of sound should cause an explosion. His initial acceleration beyond the speed of sound should also cause multiple sonic booms which in a confined space should deafen or injure everyone but QS. The physics of any object accelerating as speedsters do is completely broken unless they are shown to obliterate everything around them. Like one of the other comments said, dash in the incredibles is basically the limit before we get into sonic-boom-man who wrecks everything around him.
I've always been confused by whether quicksilver is a fast guy or if his superpower is kinda stopping or slowing down time. Because when he's not running, things are still in slow motion
The problem with the waterjet thing is it's not just water. The water is the medium and it carries an abrasive that does the cutting. I didn't know that for a long time.
Not true. Some waterjets use water as a medium for abrasives, others only use water, they're called pure waterjets.
Underrated joke that nobody caught😂”he was shaken up by thors hammer” LMAO
I like how in Invincible the speedster mentions how EVERYTHING in the world is painfully slow to him. The biggest issue isn't how they move so fast, but how they EVER do anything normal at all. It's like Drax moving so slowly you can't see him, only speedsters are doing that to not atomize you when they shake your hand.
This is a perfect example of what the writing community calls the “Pandoras Box Paradox” as in, you establish a character has a certain use with a power, or something within the context of your story is possible, which completely changes how everything works simply because of that one thing. And now in order to not be bullshit, you have to write AROUND that thing. Because if you don’t…. This video happens.
(I’ve unfortunately written a few pandoras boxes in my stuff and I’m trying to remedy them before I move on to actually releasing the story so this was a partial rant of my own personal experience :/)
Cue gojo from jjk. Perfect example, the writer even said it himself.
@ indeed. And my stupid self forgot that I allowed a character to use physics based “magic” to bend spacetime so he can fly, and then continued to write other characters using the same magic and them never flying
Many moons ago when Quicksilver first appeared in comics, he was as fast as mach 10 (according to google) which is 10 times the speed of sound an nowhere near the speed of light. That being said, I remember reading him being only as fast as twice the speed of sound in comic such as The Amazing Spiderman, I think.
Things have changed and now he is able to reach light speed . Which does not make sense because he doesn't have anything like the Speedforce to bend physics
@@Faster_than_light_yoSpeedforce is only a DC thing marvel or any other media speedsters don't need speedforce to be fast
@@nelsonisc9670 it's not about the speed coming from speedforce but the physics bending- i.e magical protection that breaks the rules of physics. you know Newtons laws right. and that power = mass times acceleration? just imagine that he touches something at superspeed. if he's not like i can take 1000 nukes to the face durable he'd lose an arm each time he touches something. or wouldnt even touch anything because the air friction alone would burn it off anyway. - speedforce is just the magic way to skip that because it surrounds him while he runs and makes him kinda skip those parts.
@Extra_Onions Being a speedster alone defies physics so it's not a stretch to say why guys with no speedforce excuse to rely on doesn't insta nuke the planet when they run is because their power work in a way it prevents such from happening
Being a speedster also comes with their logics
@@nelsonisc9670 you didn't understand what i was trying to say, Quicksilver can reach light speed but how come he doesn't cause destruction to his surroundings? that's the thing am talking about even tho I absolutely do not care about physics accuracy and logic in comicbook media but previousstly Quicksilver himself stated that he can cause Earthquakes but now they have forgotten that
Apocalypse can give himself any super power at will… so if he needs to get super speed, he can get it. 3:24
I genuinely can't believe someone would make an argument that villain close to God level wouldn't be able to topple a speedster.
Is that true? It’s been a while since I’ve seen the movie, but didn’t he try to steal Charles body after trying to get HIM to send a message to all humanity? If he could get any superpower he wants, why couldn’t he just get mass telepathy or something
Unless, he need Charles to do it with cerebro (idk how to spell it). But if that was the case, he could have given himself a better form of telepathy so he could relay a message to everyone on earth by himself?
That’s the problem with the statement “he can give himself any superpower he wants”. He would LITERALLY BE UNKILLABLE if that were the case. If he can do that, he could just give himself super-speed and just kill anyone who tries to stop his plan in ending humanity or whatever? Or give himself, idk, REALITY OR PROBABILITY manipulation, and then turn all his enemies into SPAGHETTI.
Assuming he can give himself ”ANY” super power somehow, that ruins the entirety of the story, plot and stakes of the whole movie, since he can whip out some power like, “oh, you look at me, and you turn into atoms” and nobody can do anything against it
@@Specture-404 he’s one of many villains that are simply too strong for the movies
How would he be able to give himself superspeed… in superspeed? His brain is not physically capable of thinking and recognising objects in a nanosecond, so how would he be able to give himself superspeed that quickly? Plus, he walks up to quicksilver in regular speed, doesn’t use superspeed for the rest of the film, and doesn’t give himself anymore powers at will in order to win, so clearly it’s not something he’s capable of doing
@ yes he can. He is just that powerful. Not to mention that quicksilver couldn’t physically harm Apocalypse. Dude has soloed a celestial. The only x-man that would stand a chance is Gene Gray, and realistically she needs the Phoenix Force at that. Apocalypse is just that powerful.
specially riding on a bike without a helmet and its raining the water hurts AF
The only way for a speedster to make sense is if they can only do it in short bursts with a cooldown
5:23 but that's the most realistic fighting style of a speedster. why would they stand still or throw kicks? they're essentially cavalry
1:40 RIP Denzel in that inserted clip of that particular movie, man what's with these bros randomly shooting from the back by surprise
It's from Training Day. That movie is worth watching once.
If he was moving 8,000 times the speed of sound, everybody he saved in that house would be disintegrated instantly.
Nice analysis! Thanks! I've always thought that speedsters are problematic. The thing about Quicksilver in the XMen movies, though, is that he's SO funny! He's enjoying what he's doing, which you rarely see ANY character do.
The durability point is one that I’ve been preaching for a while and I’m glad you brought it up! All speedsters have to be insanely durable just to keep their feet from exploding while they run. Speedsters are consistently shown to be somehow physically weak in comparison to other heroes. Makes 0 sense.
Jean Grey doesn't have superspeed. But The Phoenix Force does. It's a neigh omnipotent force, much like Galactus and the Celestials, so that doesn't infuriate me at all. A lot of the others, however, does. Writers are idiots most of the time.
The one vs Apocalypse made sense to me. Looked like he got surprised and "turned off" his speed mode beause of the surprise. He also looked like he was constantly switching gears to punch Apocalypes around. He lost cause he was cocky.
The one with Jean Gray is strange. I remembet Martian Man Hunter once said he couldn't read Flash's mind when he thinks at super speed.
Yes, and MMH is known to actually HAVE super-speed. Not at Flash' level, but somewhere in the range of Superman, Shazam and Wonder Woman. Jean Grey has never, to my knowledge, in any incarnation been said to have 'super-speed'. Oh well, it was a crap movie for other reasons worse than this one.
No it makes no sense for him to be "surprised" by that. He was moving and thinking in super speed the moment Apocalypse tried to bind his legs with dirt, from Quicksilver's perspective that dirt would have been moving so slowly it may as well be not moving at all. You can't even surprise Quicksilver with a bullet fired from a gun, how the fᴜck would he be surprised by slow moving dirt?
@@ProjectILT Its because he was shifting gears. If he didn't adjust his speed up and down, he would wait forever between each punch before Apocalypse flew to his new location for a follow up punch. When he was running around, he was not at full gear speed the same as he was outrunning an explosion. His super speed is not either on or off settings only. There seems to be adjustable nuance to it.
Surprise effect aside, he was moving probably around the speed of sound. No dirt would be able to withstand such speed, even more so since later the Beast could break it easily. Writers are bad physicists.
@@ixiahj That just begs the question of, "Why does he have to wait for Apocalypse to fly to some distance before he hits him again?" It would make far more sense to just keep hitting him again and again and again and again ... all at one spot, each time delivering ridiculous kinetic energy. All in a milisecond.
Bro in the other video you say word for word TWICE at 1:04 "he can slow down time"
I'm saying time is slow to him even when he isn't moving because of his perception.
@ I mean I totally understood what u meant but I’m just saying u did quite literally say he could slow time
Yeah I kinda messed up wording it like that
and quicksilver also casually manages to have super speed IN the slowed down time
In comics characters may not have super speed in the sense of going from point A to B but they have super fast reflexes. Which is usually how they tag speedsters as speedsters tend to fall into patterns when they fight.
pretty sure a youtuber made a theory on quicksilver having control over gravity and inertia and has some form of skin density
Yeah
Theory isn't fact though, especially outside of scientific context
@@daenite2480 he used science to prove it, its not a theory if he proved it
@@iatianegs quicksilver does not exist. He's fictional.
There's no science for how his powers work, that's up to the writer.
@@daenite2480 dont have to explain why this comment is bs.
Jean Grey is psychic isn't she? Foresight is faster than whatever kind of super speed isn't it?
Right. Jean Grey, especially w/ any aspect of the Phoenix power, can stop Quicksilver
Ok, but how was she moving her arm and debris that fast though?
@@dattos140 she doesn't need to move her hand she can move it with her mind, thye just did that so they know that she moved it herself
@@ImJustBetter.00 Ok she still moved her hand as fast as him though, how did she do that? How did she go that fast?
She also moved a bunch of debris not just the next one.
This is all from OSP's Red (trope talk: character deaths), but if Quicksilver had survived in the MCU, we may have had him and Wanda fighting in Civil War, he could have fought Thanos and realistically lost since he's slower and weaker than other versions of Quicksilver. If he survived the snap he may have spent his time running around and trying his best to help anywhere he can, broken by the loss of his sister, and then in endgame his twin sister comes back, but suddenly he's older than her. The biggest problem with the MCU Quicksilver's death is not just that the way he dies is dumb, but also that his death stopped any interesting things with him from even happening.
This is simply what happens when writers and others making the movie think "Wouldn't this be cool". They think a scene would look amazing and they can show off with CGI and camera techniques, but it is totally physics breaking. At the speeds he is moving when he dips his finger in the flying soup, it would produce enough heat to flash boil the liquid. And he couldn't run along walls because the force of his foot impacting at those speeds would be so many times stronger than a jackhammer, he would simply punch through the wall like a bullet. Speedsters need some practical limits in place for anything they do to be possible.
He read his mind and saw from his perspective thus slowing quicksilver down. He loses to mind power.
The movie doesn't do the villains justice, if you want to know how powerful and fast they are, read the comics
The villains in the comics demolish quicksilver in the movies, but that’s not fair. You have to compare quicksilver in the movies to the villains in the movies because, as has been shown time and time again, everyone is SIGNIFICANTLY weaker
@@ravioliman4319 it's hard to showcase what the villain can do in movies because their powerset is so vast, him being able to adapt to quicksilver's speed and predict his movements isn't surprising
The comics industry suffers from extreme power creep. As someone who collected comics in the 70s, 80s, and early 90s, I don't even recognize my favorite characters anymore.
He’s not “slowing down time” he’s just accelerating his thoughts process.
He’s thinking at super speed which makes everything seem slow by comparison.
I’m not excusing plot holes, but there are a few things you missed.
One, he’s still a “teenage dirtbag” type… he’s never actually seen combat or anything and he’s used to always winning… he basically lives life in god mode so he doesn’t know how to deal with an actual threat. He can think fast, sure… but he can only think of things he knows… if he panics or encounters a situation he’s never been in, he doesn’t even know what to do.
Two, he can vary his speed. He typically runs “just fast enough” to not burn too much energy and still do everything he wants. Like the escape scene, being faster than bullets was more than enough and probably only pushed him to a fast jog in effort. The explosion was the equivalent of a hard sprint, it burns through his energy fast hence why he stopped to eat pizza… lol my guess is that he assumed he could walk all over apocalypse and went at him at minimum speed. He wasn’t using his full power at the start because he’s cocky and has never been in an actual combat situation where anyone is a threat to him.
Three, speedsters including quicksilver aren’t actually all that durable. They typically have a slight “force field” that protects them from the effects of friction and minor impacts like dust, water drops… etc. in fact, that’s probably what limited his speed in the first sequence because those water drops probably did hurt.. like getting shot with a weak air soft gun. Once you grab a speedster, they’re a bit stronger and more durable than a regular athletic adult. If you have telekinesis and super strength you can absolutely grab them and break a limb.
Again, not excusing plot holes… just explaining how it works. Speedsters are some of my favorite comic character types, and I’m a big fan of Flash and I’ve read a decent amount of comics with Quicksilver. Quicksilver is canonically not nearly as fast as Flash but he’s a mutant and doesn’t rely on the speed force. They both have advantages and disadvantages to their powers. Also, Pietro is typically a much darker and more aggressive character willing to fight dirty… Flash (Barry/Wally) are the more classic “Boy Scout” style heroes.
technically I think all speed, momentum and even progress relies on the speed force. It's the force behind momentum itself all things need to move even life and death moves, the speed force is behind all of it so the flash being connected to it directly means all momentum, all life, progress and movement is backing him up. Anyone that moves is only allowed to do so because the speed force exists, the flash can outrun death itself because death still exists under the speed force while the flash exists in the speed force or directly connects to it.
@@OtakuWrath that only applies to the DC multiverse
If we can't apply abilities from the comics to the movies the why the fuck do we even make comic book movies?!?
To piss off trolls and make a $hit load of ca$h.
Right?! Apocalypse and Jean Grey/Phoenix most certainly can stop Quicksilver in the comics, so I'm not understanding why people have a hard time seeing how that happened in the movies.
Well, in comics he's literally immortal
Comic book movies are made to appeal to a bigger set of people than only comic book fans. For maximizing profit. But marvel comics has been running for some 1000 years now and we got only about 2 movies with quicksilver. Comic book Movie-watching people don't have the context about why apocalypse and Jean grey are able to defeat a speedster. We all know what speed is. We have context to imagine what a speedster is capable of. But we haven't seen the psychics do anything that can compete with a speedster. We don't have context. Yeah, you might be the most powerful magician, but before you can think about doing something, speedster should have already punched you with supersonic speed. So them defeating speedsters looks unfair.
Because the comics aren't the movies. The characters come from the comics, yes, but there's also like a hundred different iterations of the same character from different comics. Not every hulk is world breaker hulk. Not ever spider man is spidersman (who is just a bunch of spiders pretending to be a man.) Or Spider mam, when peter died and his ant became a super hero instead. So if you make a spider man movie, there's no 1 correct source to draw from. So its easiest to just make a new spider man that'll appeal to a much wider audience, ones that likely didn't read the comics.
That Training day scene took me out 🤣
The Phoenix Force was aware, it didn’t need to be showcased in the movie. Same with Apocalypse, after eating a couple of punches, he caught on and adapted.
love how you grossly misquote a guy at 4:17, who said "I think of it less as Jean having super speed, and more of an "oh wow any neurological phenomena really is at her disposal, that's crazy" and said that the guy said she had super-speed. The heck? Yeah, she can subconsciously sense neurological phenomena - that's a part of her power.
What's more, a huge part of Quicksilver's power is inertia control. He was able to tank the water droplets because he's allowing inertia to work closer to his perception than to real time. He's not super durable. You just aren't acknowledging how his powers work.
Look at her arm in the clip. She’s moving at super speed which makes no sense. She had to do a gesture to control the floating objects. She also has to be able to react to those neurological phenomenons which means she also has to be able to think in super speed.
The writers got confused and thought his power was making things slow motion. That is the only explanation
Always wondered why everywhere he goes isn't just one giant sonic boom.
This is why I love Terry Pratchett’s *Thief of Time.* The monks of Oi Dong can slice time to move more quickly, but there are hard limits on what their bodies can endure and how hard it becomes just to move through air. All of Discworld is wonderful, but this book is a particular gem.
whenever people with super speed get a broken bone they have to experience that in slow motion
In that death scene, I always assumed QS just moved the car in front of them to block the bullets, rather than moving the people.
Would love to see a series, where the main character has superspeed with realistic outcomes (winning every fight, doing everything in superspeed) and being stupidly OP.
its so weird how unless the movies perspective of a speedster is slowed down, theyre completely normal, like if theyre not in super speed, theyre super heightened senses and reflexes just turn off
Yo when you said thors hammer and played a snip of that song I was dying 😂😂
I think a “speedster” done perfectly is David Martinez from Cyberpunk Edgerunners. The Sandevistan has limitations, but while active he’s untouchable by anyone other than Adam Smasher, who also has a sandevistan
You're going with the "that's not possible" thing about a character in a superhero movie? I've got one: he was using a walkman before they existed, and could hear the music. the tape would melt if played at that speed. We could do this all day about every character in every superhero movie. Just unhook your brain, relax, and enjoy.
You could say the same thing about anything. Go watch paint dry for 12 hours, just unhook your brain, relax, and enjoy.
quicksilver is so underrated, im dissapointed they lost in dumb ways. I really hope they will come back in future movies and show how resourceful and useful they can be. Going super long distances and back to grab something, stopping time and moving things to gain access or help save people etc. endless possibilities.
In MCUs Defense: the Slow Mow bullet was from a Hand gun, whereas the other ones were higher calibre meaning they move faster
Finally someone spoke bout this on the internet! Thank you for this video. Such an OP character like Quicksilver was wasted in the MCU
This doesn’t mean quicksilver is going at full speed
this is great you should do a video on iron mans suit. like they can say all they want about shock absorption but no matter how much protection his interactions/ fights throughout the movies would turn him to jelly.
You said they can bring him back in the multi verse, my boi quicksilver came back as craven
Regarding the apocalypse fight. You have to also understand that Apoc is also ridiculously underrated in the movie. Dude has been collecting mutant powers for like 3 millennia.
How I perceive speedsters is that the time In a bottle scene is when they can finally think normally. The world around them moves so slow they purposely slow down time to not go insane. The power allows faster processing, while conscious. Conversations can feel like years to centuries. Remember some iterations of the flash has him going to the library reading every book about construction, architecture, engineering, etc, while a burning building full of people in it that he was helping. And fully repairing the building within that that whole situation.
Valid points, valid points.. but I remember one thing that Stan Lee said, the point is something like this: you are writing the story, if you want this hero to lose to this hero, you will make it happen.
I'm so glad I'm not the only guy that around here that over analyzes movie characters and scenes❤