They would, you just need to introduce characters that have like, insane durability so the speedster can't one shot em, stuff like conceptual manipulation, time manipulation, plot manipulation and the likes of those absurdly op abilities
One way to beat a speedster : you spread in the air a product that is lethal but only later (a slow chemical reaction or a virus whatever). The speedster won't see you coming, will breath it and die later.
Almost. If a speedster stayed consistent the write would have to do WAY more work. Quicksilver is the first or The Flash have elements of what they need, a limit. The limit for Quicksilver is him getting tired: use this to make him have to save too many people or something , anything that would result in him not being able to not lose any situation and have to pick and choose between saving people and or beating every threat. The Flash has a similar but different limit: He has to refill his tank, he's not shown eating nearly enough in later seasons, he should also be eating Goku big meal quantities EVERY meal after a MAJOR fight and even more so after injuries. This all stuff is everyday non-writers thought of. Writers just need to write better sense or stop writing speedsters because we either see them get nerfed or lose to trash logic. The Mr Freeze guy in flash is among the stupidest things i've had the misfortune to witness.
I think Wally West was written incredibly well in Young Justice. Big part of that is getting rid of the Speed Force bc it’s literally a cheap way to do random bullshit go
@ain3sh yeah would be cool to have a speedster who cannot just go super fast all the time because of the consequences it would have for the environment like constantly breaking sound barrier
I agree with almost everything in this video, I want to just point out a few things. 1:45 water jet cutters add an abrasive material in the water to allow them to cut through things like glass and metal, but even without it just water at that speed could cut fingers. 3:00 Apocalypse was shown to copy other powers when they are being used against him, like how he used telepathy only when Xavier was using it near him, so when the camera zooms in on his eyes and they start moving very fast is when he started copying Quicksilver's super speed. You could say he shouldn't be able to do that because it happened in too short an amount of time for him to think, but maybe his power copying ability activates automatically. But you're right, Quicksilver should have been able to break that sand. 5:36 you could argue that even this shouldn't happen, since from his perspective the hammer is moving very slowly, so when he grabs it, he would notice that he can't move it and that the hammer is slowly pulling him backwards, so he would just let go.
See this I can understand better. his eyes go silver he adopts qicksilver speed, this allowed him to see and trap him. but they seem to link his silvered eyes to the ground change so...writers...
Speedsters fundamentally don't make sense in our physical reality. At even the lower end of these speeds air would be swmming in molassis and inertia would completely overwhelm traction to the ground making it impossible to stop or turn. Also deafening sonic booms any time you move. Anyone you move would be ripped apart to chunks and have all their organs liquefied - even if you could somehow survive it. At the higher ends like Flash it becomes even stupider with just the movement itself causing massive, potentially planet-ending explosions. Approaching relativistic speeds almost anything could happen. But yea - superspeed with equal level of thinking/reactions even at a very low level would be hard to beat with most other powers - and it necessarily has to include many other powers like super-strength, super-durability and flight to make any sort of sense. At that point you are essentially Superman. The closest we can come to experience something like this is probably in the VR game "super hot". Very highly recommended if you have the gear to play it. It demonstrates just how ridiculously OP even highly limited superspeed is.
The flash they use the speed force as their catchall excuse for why it works. When running fast from the speed force it doesn't impact the world around them etc. The problem for DC is then, explain superman and why him traveling at those speeds doesn't wreck everything.
Most speedsters don't use physical prowess to move fast. They can alter time in some way like shift their own relative time compared to everything else. How personal time dilation like that interacts in an atmosphere, no one knows but its comics. If Superman tries to catch up to the Flash, Supes would cause a sonic boom yet Flash won't and he can still speed up.
MCU Quicksilver's death DOES make sense. - Bullets are tiny. If you're speeding around a battlefield, even with sped up perception, bullets are SO small, it would be extremely difficult to spot them, especially when they're flying all over the place and moving at a pretty steady pace. We as the audience have the benefit of the camera angles being made for us to see important details, so I think people take for granted that the character would not be able to detect every bullet from every angle as easily as we're shown them. - When we gets the Hawkeye, the bullets are already baring down on him. I imagine, as he's running up to Hawkeye, those bullets are probably seconds (in Quicksilver's time) from hitting Hawkeye, and he doesn't have time to think about it or maneuver around every single one, he knows as he's approaching that its either let Hawkeye die or sacrifice himself to save him. I feel like every scene with Quicksilver sets us up for this making sense, we're shown that he gets distracted and doesn't see every detail (he doesn't notice the floor shatter beneath him when the bullet breaks the glass in the Avengers HQ), he can get tired and can't use his powers if he's out of breath, etc.
@@yesbutcooler Yeah... what about it? Don't see what that has to do with mentioning him having trouble running on water in the second movie like it was some change when it wasn't because he had the same problem in the first movie.... literally, the same movie with the bar scene in question. So there was no point in even bringing up the second movie to illustrate your point. So your point is stronger when considering he had that same problem in the same movie.
The one vs Apocalypse made sense to me. Looked like he got surprised and "turned off" his speed mode beause of the surprise. He also looked like he was constantly switching gears to punch Apocalypes around. He lost cause he was cocky. The one with Jean Gray is strange. I remembet Martian Man Hunter once said he couldn't read Flash's mind when he thinks at super speed.
Yes, and MMH is known to actually HAVE super-speed. Not at Flash' level, but somewhere in the range of Superman, Shazam and Wonder Woman. Jean Grey has never, to my knowledge, in any incarnation been said to have 'super-speed'. Oh well, it was a crap movie for other reasons worse than this one.
Great video, consider looking into Beast Boy, he opened pandora's box too by transforming into alien species, the things he transforms into in some of the comic book canons make him theoretically insanely powerful
Does he have to KNOW about the alien, or can he just think "I need something that can crush an Imperial destroyer", and his power will rummage through the cosmos and find that giant asteroid snake from Empire Strikes Back?
I am not an expert or anything I just fell into a rabbit hole one day, but I think he has to know about the entity, it wasn't just aliens either, iirc in one of the comics he turns into a Phoenix, which could open the door for Mythological beasts too
I am not going to truly defend the Quicksilver/Jean Grey fight, but I will suggest a plausible reason. She has the Phoenix Force in her amping her abilities. So the moment Quicksilver thinks "I'll run at her from here" she knows his intention and removes the stepping stone debris. She's not reacting to him mid-run, she's reacting to before he even moved. It just LOOKS like she is reacting to him running.
It all comes down to superhero stories revolving around "what looks cool". It's the same reason starships fly like airplanes, alien women are always hot, and explosions always make that big orange gasoline fireball no matter what kind of explosive is used. You can't expect much else from a medium that relies on mass-audience appeal.
@RicoTheCEO_ Magneto Fassbender/Mckellen Xavier /Mcaavoy Stewart Quicksilver And Of Course Wolverine The Foxverse is over-hated. They want their colorful X-Men. Watch their annoying 90s series.
Exactly. If someone was as fast as he’s portrayed with Evan Peters in X Men, who the hell could stop him without some asinine plot convenience or plot hole? Why not have him accomplish everything needing done?
His fight against Apocalypse is somewhat believable in the movie universe. since he could have distracted Quicksilver into breaking concentration with the leg hold to make him result in coming out of speed. And him noticing him doesnt mean he was able to fight him at the same speed, just means he could detect him since he does have alot of powers in the movie. His fight with jean only way i could say he lost that is somehow the phoenix force but i def agree that is not believeable. and MCU Quicksilver the shot in the arm he coulding have noticed the bullet but he def could have survived his death scene.
Apocalypse power is to be able to manipulate and control other mutants powers. That's how he took control of Cerebro when Xavier contacted him indirectly and how he empowered his Riders. It's reasonable to asume that he can use that power to limit or perceive Quicksilver powers. Maybe he even can "kick him out of" superspeed.
1:41 the water jets are not just shooting water, they contain hard minerals like quarts, ruby or even diamond. The water has no where near the cutting power without.
really depends on the PSI, enough pressure and even without abrasive materials it still can cut. and im not talking out my ass here, operated a CNC machine for a couple of years and not all water jets have abrasive material, just high PSI
Many moons ago when Quicksilver first appeared in comics, he was as fast as mach 10 (according to google) which is 10 times the speed of sound an nowhere near the speed of light. That being said, I remember reading him being only as fast as twice the speed of sound in comic such as The Amazing Spiderman, I think.
Things have changed and now he is able to reach light speed . Which does not make sense because he doesn't have anything like the Speedforce to bend physics
only good thing about the boys was showing how insanely overpowered their speedster character is at any given moment. Literally took a random heart attack to beat the a train.
I Always understood his death as him pushing a car in front of Hawkeye and being caught up in the spreading fire from ultron, and it baffled me because how the hell did he push and flip over a car if he doesn't have super strength
Ive said this all along. Imagine getting punches at 8 times the speed of sound, example if a bullet travels 700 mph and weights 7 grams, now a punch weighting in 5lbs traveling at Mach 8. This punch would literally wipe a city and vaporize the point of contact with just the kinetic energy. Assuming his arm is 5 kg: KE =1/2 (5)(2744to the pwer of 2) ≈18.8 × 10 to the power of 10 joules.
His statement about it being able to vaporize a city is flat out wrong. That much joules would equal about 44.93 tons of tnt or city block level. Not city level.@@annunakim525
to start with. love your take on speedsters and agree with a lot of what you said. but the thing with apokalips is, he is smart and by that point in time has absorbed a shit ton of powers, one of which could have been super speed thinking or perception or some time of precognition which would explain the slow motion as he was watching it happen and we just saw his perspective. and the part about not breaking the hold on his leg is easy, apokalips was concentrating on holding his leg and when beast broke it he wasnt. and the scenes with jean, well that is harder i can only asume since like you said nothing was stated but she does say she feel more powerful and can do things she never could before so that might be hinting at gaining superthinking or some sort of precognition. and in the movie it is said that the cosmic power she got had a sort of mind of it's own so maybe it made her body move. and him getting injured well, she could have blocked his powers sensing him being a treat, we see profesor x do it all the time and her doing it later in the movie.
I think nerfing speedsters during the climax is a cheap way of making the bad guy seem stronger. think about it, it's always a formula. first scene: the speedster is super op and shows few to no weaknesses, then he has a big scene and saves a lot of people at once, making us think "wow, he's real shit". then, when it's convenient to the plot, he's killed off in an instant and the shock of his death makes us think "wow, they're dealing with some realer shit"
1:00 you can see the drops of water hitting his clothing. If it was simply he had durability, that would be one thing. Whatever magic he has, it's protecting him and his cloths as well. It has to be some kind of "aura" or something.
100% agree. You know what? We're dealing with speedsters, so 1 Billion % agree. I somewhat get the Jean Grey thing, because the rest of the movie shows her trying to suppress the Phoenix Force, and in this part, it was getting away from her. The PF is one of those Cosmic Entities that can essentially do anything (Jean moving her hand is just one of those stupid movie things they do, like making sounds in space). All your other examples are spot on. Hated them all.
This is a perfect example of what the writing community calls the “Pandoras Box Paradox” as in, you establish a character has a certain use with a power, or something within the context of your story is possible, which completely changes how everything works simply because of that one thing. And now in order to not be bullshit, you have to write AROUND that thing. Because if you don’t…. This video happens. (I’ve unfortunately written a few pandoras boxes in my stuff and I’m trying to remedy them before I move on to actually releasing the story so this was a partial rant of my own personal experience :/)
@ indeed. And my stupid self forgot that I allowed a character to use physics based “magic” to bend spacetime so he can fly, and then continued to write other characters using the same magic and them never flying
3:00 It looks like that's something he activated. Of course, I don't know why he was starting to. 3:33 Or at least dodge the leg break. 6:40 It's probably meant to be bounceback, but that doesn't work if he carried them.
In regards to the bullet, remember that not all ammunition travels at the same speed. Hawkeye used a Beretta Cheetah which normally has a velocity of 1000-1200 feet per second. Quicksilver was hit by an RPK bullet fired by the Sokovian police. RPK rounds have an average velocity of 2400 feet per second. That's at least twice the speed of the previous bullet.
Happens when a universe won't abide by its own rules. Just like how in End Game Thanos could stand up to any and all Avengers without having a single Infinity Stone.
i think apocalypse did it best because the main bad guy has mutation that allows him to adapt or think of anything and it is real... so i think he just adapted to the superspeedy punches of quicksilver and grew a super speed brain, you can see his eyes turn into super speed eyes for a second before he gets white (doing my spell) eyes (sandgrab on qs foot) also i think the sand around quicksilvers leg was magical until the bad guy was distracted/ beaten , only then could it be easily destroyed to free him
In Justice League, Superman is as fast as the flash, so he's always fighting in slow motion? To me, it just crashes the enjoyment of the whole Superman concept. Super speed should be dropped, it is to OP.
Even in comic books they limit speedsters for if they use their potential, they can never lose and outsmart everyone. Superman had to suddenly get super speed to combat a speedster.
You’re right… I’ve never once seen a speedster lose in a ”realistic way”. And it’s not even that hard to do, just set up a trap you can’t run away from once triggered. For example, explosions and shrapnel all around him, or just a simple trapdoor with spikes under it :p sounds silly, but if the hatch detaches completely from the ground, he can’t push off it, he will only fling the hatch away while moving himself very little. If there’s nothing in reach to grab onto, he will fall to his death. Assuming it’s not flash, cause he is literally unkillable, since he can ”phade through matter”, so no matter what you do he could just go ”I’m not affected by matter right now, C-ya” or if he is surounded by nukes or something he can just go back in time. But any speedster without godmode should die to simple traps
Maybe electrical trap will be better. Electrical charge is traveling at around 70% the speed of light in copper, and around 50% when traveling through air if that info about lightning is not a lie. If your target can react to this, then it's time to sit down and accept the inevitable - his/her powers are bull$h!t
I chalked up Quicksilver’s death to inexperience. I don’t think he had time with his powers to really explore what he could do, how fast he could really be, but if they had him discover that, the final fight with Ultron would have been over before it began, literally. Device disabled and Ultron switched off, in less than a single clock cycle for Ultron’s processor.
Most writers and film makers just makes them like they have time manipulation powers, "Plan of the observed situation and constant movement" that should be the speedsters weakness. They near stop a moment to think observe it and then move. Anything surprising will surprise them and be this "i can see it happening and i can't change it" thing. Think that's Cap. Colds (good written) plan when he manage to defeats Flash, a hidden ice spot where Flash not see but run in or such. Also just because you can move as fast as a bullet don't mean you can move it, it still has force & trajectory and such have some precived weight, picking it up as in normal speed/time is not the same. imo
Dont know the comics, but what if the way Quicksilver can freeze time is by actually moving in place, vibrating if you will? Completely locking in his foot would then prevent his leg from making the mini movements needed to remain in super speed. Now you ask, why not move the rest in super speed? That is because I feel like his resistance comes from his entire body moving so fast, not because he is actually resistant when still (like superman for example). So if he super moved while his leg is stuck, he probably would rip his own leg off. Or at least break it potentially worse than the villain did. Just something to thibk about
The thing about speedsters is that they constantly alter how fast they think. If a speedster don't they go insane from everything being to slow for them this is the reason they lose to stupid reasons they weren't thinking at full speed and lost because of it
Almost all powerful super hero abilities have major inconsistencies when viewed against the real laws of physics. A speedster should burn up in our atmosphere almost instantly. A certain suspension of disbelief is required to enjoy movies like this.
Speedsters are always done wrong. I've always preferred characters being able to slow down, or nearly stop, time, as that leaves things open for them to not be totally OP, or just be completely inconsistent.
Yup. Fully agree that speedsters are the most OP characters, only topped by abstracts like Eternity or Death. I'd call the Phoenix Force, the distillation of all life, abstract enough. Jean Grey as the Phoenix uses her powers at the speed of thought, which at minimum human levels is something like 299,792,458 meters per second. The speed of electrical impulses in the human brain.
While I can agree that speedster powers are usually inconsistent, some of it is intentional. QS getting flung by Mjolnir and then hit by Cap is because he was stunned. Getting hit in the arm by a bullet is simply because he wasn't traveling at full speed and wasn't expecting a bullet from that direction. Just because he can travel at whatever times the speed of sound doesn't mean he is always traveling at that speed. His death in the MCU (while being a bit BS, admittedly) could easily be explained by exhaustion.
To the part about Jean Grey: technically if she can think so fast, she could use her telekinesis similarly fast to move her arm and the objects, though it would be unnecessary to move the arm then. Still agree she should have lost and its studip.
Not sure if someone mentioned this in the comments, but moving 8,000 times the speed of sound is about 1% of the speed of light. Another way to look at this is he would be moving 350 times faster than a spacecraft during re-entry into earth's atmosphere. Quicksilver's real super power is that when he moves that fast he doesn't instantly cause the atmosphere around him to explode into a massive fireball that destroys everyone in a mile radius.
9mm typically moving just around 1,000 fps. Equalling that would mean the bullets would stand still, so he was moving/thinking slightly slower. That is waaaaaayyyyy faster than comics Quicksilver, who tops out at 175 mph most of the time. Apocalypse has been shown to be very adaptable in the comics, however, and yes, bitch slapped Quicksilver easily. This is the guy who can amp other mutants when they join his service and has adapted Celestial technology for his own use. He can literally manipulate the molecules of his body for his needs. The movie version of Apocalypse wasnt given a great setup or much depth, but that is why he could overcome Quicksilver so easily. MCU Quicksilver is pretty relatable to the standard comics version except where he can see the bullets in slow motion. 175 mph vs 1000 fps is pretty unbelievable. It works out to about 681 mph. He could perceive it but couldn't catch up to it or avert it. He might be able to get in front and eat the bullets, but why not move something instead to not have to die?
Water at 60,000psi is dangerous, but the cutting power of a water jet service is due to the garnet medium IN the water… it is a concentrated sandblaster… not just water pouring into the surface cutting through.
you do realise not all of them use abrasive material and just high PSI, and yeah even at a lower psi than 60k it can still cut. also sandblaster and a water jet two completely different things, ive worked with both for a couple of years and thats a terrible comparison mate.
Invincible did speedsters right imho. Red Rush was basically always in super speed mode. Even a short conversation felt like hours to him, and the only reason he lost to Nolan is because he went on the offensive. If RR had stayed on defense he would've been untouchable. Also the two quicksilver scenes from Xmen are epic.
I mean the whole thing takes place off screen and all we see is a blue blur. It's possible MCU Quicksilver took the bullets AS he moved Hawkeye and stumbled backwards as we see him speak. Also, he seems to turn his power off and on and as you mentioned, tires. If he's not moving at super speed _before_ he's aware of the bullets, it's reasonable that he might take a shot (referring to the shot in the arm). It's also interesting that the shot never seemed to hinder him in any way. We've seen speedsters in other media have quicker healing and metabolism (The Flash) but we didn't get to know enough about Quicksilver.
Apocalypse can literally recreate any mutant power at will. His eyes weren't just tracking Quicksilver, they were adapting while he generated the same power within himself.
They forget that if a speedster is defeated by Apocalypse or Jean like that, it implies that these characters are able to take action that quickly, so they should be able to beat everyone else at the same speed. Apocalyspe could just decapitate the X-Men using dust like those Egyptians at the beginning of the movie and Jean could just push everyone before they notice it (Quicksilver hardly noticed it and he wasn't able to react) with force that breaks bones. MCU Quicksilver for me is consistent, not overpowered, I agree that him just pushing everybody it's just lazy and uncreative, but I think it is well shown that he has limits in perception, yes he is able to see his surroundings in slow motion, but that does not mean he is able to notice everything (like this one bullet). However, his death scene was still poorly done.
Quicksilver shouldn't lose against apocalypse. After the first hit, he could adjust his speed since force = mass times acceleration. The faster the speed, the harder the hit if you don't increase the mass
It's also why whenever I see a Batman vs Superman scene where Batman wins I lose interest because Supes can keep up with the flash so before Bruce could even finish his thought of making his move Superman would have ended the fight 20 times over
To be fair to MCU Quiksilver, he was still inexperienced in comparison to X-Men Quicksilver when it comes to handling his abilities. Also, he showed himself to be quite arrogant and complacent compared to X-Men Quicksilver so it explains how he lost so easily to veterans like Captain America and Thor. Then again, if the writers ACTUALLY make good use of Speedsters, they (the Speedsters) will become unstoppable and defeat everyone before their teammates can blink, thus taking away their glory in the battles. I think Dash from the Incredibles universe is one of the only examples of Speedsters done right in media. After all, Dash is fast but he still has limits and doesn't have OP abilities like Quicksilver (Marvel) and Flash (DC). A-Train from The Boys universe is similar to Dash as the show clearly depicts how destructive a Speedster can be to their surroundings every time he uses his powers.
The fight against Apocalypse is rated a little unfairly imo. Apocalypse is said to have "Super Speed" (From Wiki on Apocalypse: Superhuman Speed: By infusing his body with energy he is able to speed up his reflexes and reaction time in which to seemingly move at super speeds. It is this ability that allows him to counteract others with super-speed powers themselves.) so I would put it down to him using that ability to take out Quick Silver. As for Jean Grey / Phoenix fight, I agree he should've been able to dodge that. Even if Phoenix can think at super speed, Quick Silver would have had time to adjust, roll / tumble to prevent the landing he had and then be able to get back up and try again. However, to be fair, as stated in the video, if they wrote speedsters properly, then they would be untouchable Gods.
You first saw him in days of future past.We, many of us, saw him in X-Men comics, or later in Avengers comics. He runs a couple of hundred miles per hour, depending on the writer. Or artist. The movies all screw up every single character's power and none of them are consistent scene to scene, let alone movie to movie. Quicksilver is consistently one of the single most unlikable characters in the comics and none of his live action media appearances are in any way true to him. He is domineering, cruel, loudmouthed, arrogant, ineffectual and a pervert. In over sixty years of being portrayed in the comics he has never had even one friend. A wife that tried to "cure" him, the sister he had an incestuous relationship with, but no friends. He is a real piece of work, and a mere shade in the movies.
Now in the MCU Quicksilver I'm assuming that he pushed them and didn't pick them up and so they slid over there and he was still not covered that's the only way it makes sense but even then it's bit of a stretch
The problem with Quicksilver in the MCU is that he was added to fill a hole left when they decided not to include Wonderman. This had a cascade effect resulting in Cosmic Karen and a shitty Scarlet Witch story. Had they included him, WM would have died for the team, returned from the dead cosmically powered, saved the day, and then had a love triangle with SW and Vision.
I agree with both losses being a little too contrived and lazy. I will defend Marvel on Age of Ultron Quicksilver. He is young, untrained, and inexperienced with his abilities. Which is a reasonable explanation for some of his amateur decisions and power applications. Still not an excuse for moving back out from behind the car. I guess I could stretch it and say there are some bullet holes on the left side of the car where Quicksilver would have been standing while hold on Hawkeye. So maybe he caught the few bullets that penetrated and “staggered” backwards injured. I am really working to cover their butt with that one though.
Holding up a telekinetic shield is fine -- show the speedster bouncing off the invisible wall. But make sure the TK planned ahead by putting up the shield BEFORE the speedster showed up. You don't try to put on a Kevlar vest while the gunman is drawing on you -- you put it on at home. And the power output to stop a moving speedster would be massive -- don't show the TK doing that if he was straining to open a locked door.
@stevenscott2136 bro if I was a telekinetic, I'd have a barrier around me all the time.after all it's invisible.its why I like gojo in jjk....he knows his power and abuses it
@@wambokodavid7109 Sure if you can it would be smart. But presumedly it takes energy to use your abilities so keeping them going 24/7 might not be possible.
Pretty sure Pietro moved the car in front of Clint instead of moving Clint. If that car was right next to Clint the whole time he would've just jumped behind it. And Pietro didn't race over there to push him over 2 ft. He grabbed a car on the way. Which is a more impressive feat as he moved a whole car. The death overall is extremely stupid because whether or not he moved Clint or the car, he didn't need to stop moving.
If you can't write a character with consistency... THEN DON'T USE THE CHARACTER!!! Marvel and DC constantly change so much shit from the comics for shows and movies, which makes sense. Some stuff just wouldn't work through those mediums. So treat speedsters the same. If a speedster is too hard to write, then don't use them. If characters randomly have their power scaling drop or rise to that degree, every fight has absolutely no weight to it.
Now the Apocalypse one does have an in-movie explanation. Apocalypse basically evolves the ability to see as fast as Quicksilver moves. You can see it in how his eyes literally change before he is able to see Quicksilver, so I can give that one a pass. The Jean Grey one is absolute trash though. Phoenix powers or no, there is no way she can think anywhere near as quickly as Quicksilver
The funniest thing of all is that Evan Peters' Quicksilver fits better with the rest of the MCU while Aaron Taylor's Quicksilver and even Wanda herself would fit better in the Foxverse and Peters with one scene and little screen time won over the public I do find a lot of sense in Apocalypse, he was the most powerful mutant and he was quick to attack Quicksilver With the MCU, it seems to me an excuse to take him out of the MCU due to the rights since I don't find any sense in him dying that way PD Dark Phoenix never existed, it's not canon
He's not slowing down time. We're just seeing the detail that he sees. Just like Superman didn't "turn back time" or "turn back the earth" in the original movie. He just TRAVELED back in time and that's how it was expressed on the screen. Also. Quicksilver was nowhere near this fast in the comics. They essentially turned him into The Flash for the movie. In the comics, I think he ran about 200 MPH. One thing that he and The Whizzer could do that they never did on TV or movies was swim through the air. But speedsters SHOULD have varying levels of immunity to punches, projectiles and explosions because the force would hit them slowly, depending on the level of their manipulation of inertia. Bullets and punches injure you because they transfer energy to your body faster than your body can handle it without tearing/breaking. In the real world, a bullet or a punch from Superman or The Hulk would still injure a 200 MPH comics-accurate Quicksilver, but only move The Flash. The MCU Quicksilver should be bulletproof and fall proof, and impervious to most explosions that don't produce great heat. Flash would have to worry more about wrestling moves and bones being broken if they grab him. But the Flash could literally punch Hulk or Superman and deliver more energy with a faster punch, or punch them a million times and build up enormous damage the same way water can cut diamonds.
The tv show The Flash was the worst speedster ever, and it was , like, the main theme of the show. It seemed the writers didn't give a single thought about how cool it would be to be Flash. E.g., they could have the freeze gun be dangerous to Flash by simply assuming that Captain Cold had invented a device that fires automatically at anything approaching him. Since any detector would work almost as fast as light, that would have been ok.
Well, yeah, all that you said is true, from a physics standpoint, but that wouldn't make an exciting movie would it? If Quicksilver just beat every threat in an instant.
All superheroes and supervillains with powers? Their powers are always best broken down to be, "They have the power to break the laws of physics in any way necessary to achieve the effect shown in the story."
i think QS didnt move hawkeye, but the car, bc if i remember correctly, the car wasnt anywhere close. so he moved the car to act as a shield, but got shot in the process. this is still dumb but i always thought that as he wasnt THAT fast, it was the only think he could do.
Also, what about the people he is carrying? They don't have super durability. UNLESS, anything he is holding, carrying, or touching is afforded super durability, which would explain why his clothes stay intact.
I think mcu quicksilver can only push people with his super speed because he lacks the super durability to not damage himself eith a super speed punch or snap jis wrists with the jerk of grabbing on to something that won't move with him (somewhat like the hammer). I think his death is supposed to be read as him saving Hawkeye by crashing into him and pushing him out of the way, but that collision transferred away all of his kinetic energy so he stops dead. Presumably this is how he zig zags between targets without super strength to take sudden deceleration.
I always assumed Quicksilver in Age of Ultron moved the car in front of Hakweye and the boy. Although, I am not sure how the bullets didn't hit the car.
Actually if you think about it, all of the speedsters when using their power and traveling at speed would have to have an incredible level of durability. For example, if someone turns a corner at a little over 30 mph with a 70 ft radius, they will pull about 1 G of centrifugal force to turn that corner. But the force applied is related to the SQUARE of the speed. So going around that same corner at oh 300 mph would require a centrifugal force of 100 G's. That same corner at the speed of sound would be exceeding 500 G. Since the normal human body passes out by 8 G's except for the most physically fit people, and a body at 80 G's would pancake and bones breaking, there seems to be an issue even going around a corner. Of course the only way to really explain this is for them to no longer be part of normal reality while traveling at such speeds. Within the "bubble" of their speed action, something changes so the normal laws do not apply OR such that normal laws apply in a muted fashion. They effectively are within their own warp in time and space (hence they can perceive and act normally while everything around is drastically slowed down. Otherwise they would be dead the moment they accelerated and inertial forces from that acceleration turned them into jam.
I don't think Quicksilver is actually durable as you say. I think for all (most?) speedsters, we're meant to ignore the effect of speed on their momentum most of the time. Yeah they can deliver strong blows, but at that speed everything including them should turn into mush. When Quicksilver moves those people around, they should be getting splattered.
And with the bullet hitting him in the arm he may have super speed but if he doesn't see it it'll still hit his ass he doesn't have super perception but really it just shows how stupid it is running into gunfire without looking
TBH all of these things are problem with how the movies decided to show things. The Apocalypse fight well it seems to me Apocalypse used his abilities to amp his speed giving himself temporary superspeed on the level of quicksilver just like he used them to amp others in the movie. The problem is they didn't make this clear enough this is what was going on TBH they should of had Apocalypse amp himself in some way before the Quicksilver fight. As for the Jean Grey fight the only problem is they had her appearing to move in the slow-mo effect instead she should have hit Quicksilver with her telekinesis pulse attack ending the slow-mo super speed effect before we see her move. As for Quicksilver in Age of UItron the problem is they messed it up by: 1. not showing what Quicksilver actually did which would make it clear to us how Quicksliver was hit. 2. putting Quicksilver in the wrong place he should have been behind the car with Hawkeye if he moved Hawkeye or leaning on the car if he moved the car this would make it clear that Quicksilver just wasn't fast enough to pull off what ever he attempted to do and so was hit. 3 the bullet wounds should have done though Quicksilver sideways making it clear he run across the line of fire.
It's not a problem, it's simply that you don't understand. Of course they would never lose if they use their speed that way all the time, but the point is not to be a f****** power fantasy. The point is to make an enjoyable story and characters that never lose or not f****** enjoyable
I would make a point to say that quicksilver does not have super strength. It's his insanely fast speed that is doing ALL the damage. Not that super speed is weaker- on the contrary. The potential kinetic energy can be quantified using this equation: (KE= 1/2 *m*v²) in SI units, the mass should be in kilograms and the velocity in meters per second. If you double the mass of an object you only double it's kinetic potential, but if you double it's speed, the output gets quadrupled. In this case, he is throwing his punches and they are hitting twice as hard as someone with double his mass. Now I will say that Quicksilver DOES NEED durability beyond that of normal humans, in fact, his durability is insane. As you mentioned before, water droplets in the air should have shredded him to goop as he moved through them. He would need durability beyond that of bulletproof vests- but everywhere, except maybe his eyes, as he has goggles- which probably would not hold up to collisions at those speeds- but their purpose is likely for wind protection, instead of debris, and he likely simply moves out of the way for objects about to collide with his eyes. I say this because he is moving at such insane speeds that the wind pressure caused by him jogging, would likely be enough force to eject his eyeballs from their sockets. If you have enough speed to watch explosions barely move, then you have enough time to dodge some debris coming at your face, so his goggles are not likely, in reality, used for debris protection in general. But I believe with speeds like this it would take another being who is JUST as fast to take him on, no one without his level of speed should be able to touch him, as you mentioned- and showed direct evidence showing his ability to simply slow time down even at rest. This completely negates future sight, predictions, random guesses- as he can simply...... move out of the way... Nothing is as fast as he is in these clips, it would be like your friend being able to punch you if he moved at the speed of moss growing.... There is no way that is happening without you letting it. But where would the challenge be if he could simply not be touched- not be stopped... He would be the most powerful being in that instance. He needs a challenge- some obstacle. So they resort to trying to fill this requirement with their lack of understanding, which looks like bullshit to any critical thinker. It results in inconsistent powers and what looks like plot convenience or plot holes. Hopefully we can get super heroes whose powers never compromise with lack of understanding in the future.
Unpopular opinion, I think eternals had the best speedster. He speed was illustrated really cool and she was extremely heavily involved in the plot to dumb her powers down....but yeah speedsters are OP
Apocalypse has a better understanding of mutant powers than the owner of said powers. Who is to say with all the body swaps he has done that he didn't swap out with a speedster before?
If speedsters had consistency, they would genuinely never lose.
They would, you just need to introduce characters that have like, insane durability so the speedster can't one shot em, stuff like conceptual manipulation, time manipulation, plot manipulation and the likes of those absurdly op abilities
One way to beat a speedster : you spread in the air a product that is lethal but only later (a slow chemical reaction or a virus whatever). The speedster won't see you coming, will breath it and die later.
Same with Ant-Man. That's why he's always missing in action or on house arrest.
Almost. If a speedster stayed consistent the write would have to do WAY more work. Quicksilver is the first or The Flash have elements of what they need, a limit. The limit for Quicksilver is him getting tired: use this to make him have to save too many people or something , anything that would result in him not being able to not lose any situation and have to pick and choose between saving people and or beating every threat. The Flash has a similar but different limit: He has to refill his tank, he's not shown eating nearly enough in later seasons, he should also be eating Goku big meal quantities EVERY meal after a MAJOR fight and even more so after injuries. This all stuff is everyday non-writers thought of. Writers just need to write better sense or stop writing speedsters because we either see them get nerfed or lose to trash logic. The Mr Freeze guy in flash is among the stupidest things i've had the misfortune to witness.
@@Stone_Squared that's not a good solution, that just transfers the power problem to that person. Now you have a power creep.
Quicksilver is practically a god in the xmen movies yet he still gets beat in stupid ways
Plot is always the reason when it comes to speedsters 😂
Fr
At this point I'm convinced that its impossible to write a speedster faster than Dash (Incredible) while also making them reasonable.
You mean dash but I get the vision/point.
@lightning10053 oh yeah u right
jake paul is way more faster than all of them!!!
I think Wally West was written incredibly well in Young Justice. Big part of that is getting rid of the Speed Force bc it’s literally a cheap way to do random bullshit go
@ain3sh yeah would be cool to have a speedster who cannot just go super fast all the time because of the consequences it would have for the environment like constantly breaking sound barrier
Marvel: We Can’t make Quicksilver overpowered! It would ruin the plot!
Also Marvel: Let’s Add Sentry
Also, let's just make his sister basically God.
Moving at normal speeds while perceiving the world in slow motion is already insane but quicksilver is moving at unreactable speeds in slow motion
I agree with almost everything in this video, I want to just point out a few things.
1:45 water jet cutters add an abrasive material in the water to allow them to cut through things like glass and metal, but even without it just water at that speed could cut fingers.
3:00 Apocalypse was shown to copy other powers when they are being used against him, like how he used telepathy only when Xavier was using it near him, so when the camera zooms in on his eyes and they start moving very fast is when he started copying Quicksilver's super speed. You could say he shouldn't be able to do that because it happened in too short an amount of time for him to think, but maybe his power copying ability activates automatically. But you're right, Quicksilver should have been able to break that sand.
5:36 you could argue that even this shouldn't happen, since from his perspective the hammer is moving very slowly, so when he grabs it, he would notice that he can't move it and that the hammer is slowly pulling him backwards, so he would just let go.
See this I can understand better. his eyes go silver he adopts qicksilver speed, this allowed him to see and trap him. but they seem to link his silvered eyes to the ground change so...writers...
Speedsters fundamentally don't make sense in our physical reality. At even the lower end of these speeds air would be swmming in molassis and inertia would completely overwhelm traction to the ground making it impossible to stop or turn. Also deafening sonic booms any time you move. Anyone you move would be ripped apart to chunks and have all their organs liquefied - even if you could somehow survive it. At the higher ends like Flash it becomes even stupider with just the movement itself causing massive, potentially planet-ending explosions. Approaching relativistic speeds almost anything could happen.
But yea - superspeed with equal level of thinking/reactions even at a very low level would be hard to beat with most other powers - and it necessarily has to include many other powers like super-strength, super-durability and flight to make any sort of sense. At that point you are essentially Superman.
The closest we can come to experience something like this is probably in the VR game "super hot". Very highly recommended if you have the gear to play it. It demonstrates just how ridiculously OP even highly limited superspeed is.
The flash they use the speed force as their catchall excuse for why it works. When running fast from the speed force it doesn't impact the world around them etc. The problem for DC is then, explain superman and why him traveling at those speeds doesn't wreck everything.
@@Ahglock The speedforce ends up being too convenient.
supernatural powers
Most speedsters don't use physical prowess to move fast. They can alter time in some way like shift their own relative time compared to everything else. How personal time dilation like that interacts in an atmosphere, no one knows but its comics.
If Superman tries to catch up to the Flash, Supes would cause a sonic boom yet Flash won't and he can still speed up.
It definitely works if space time is dilated around you similar to anti-gravity proportion, instead, it would be Anti times space proportion
MCU Quicksilver's death DOES make sense.
- Bullets are tiny. If you're speeding around a battlefield, even with sped up perception, bullets are SO small, it would be extremely difficult to spot them, especially when they're flying all over the place and moving at a pretty steady pace. We as the audience have the benefit of the camera angles being made for us to see important details, so I think people take for granted that the character would not be able to detect every bullet from every angle as easily as we're shown them.
- When we gets the Hawkeye, the bullets are already baring down on him. I imagine, as he's running up to Hawkeye, those bullets are probably seconds (in Quicksilver's time) from hitting Hawkeye, and he doesn't have time to think about it or maneuver around every single one, he knows as he's approaching that its either let Hawkeye die or sacrifice himself to save him.
I feel like every scene with Quicksilver sets us up for this making sense, we're shown that he gets distracted and doesn't see every detail (he doesn't notice the floor shatter beneath him when the bullet breaks the glass in the Avengers HQ), he can get tired and can't use his powers if he's out of breath, etc.
You should make a video about how sonic went from freezing time in the first sonic movie to barely being able to walk on water in the second movie
Sonic is afraid water. So it was like a mental block. But yeah he should be able to do it with ease
@@chimmychanga6798 He does do it in the second movie but I do see your point.
Well, I remember him saying he fell into the pacific ocean in the first movie when he was trying to run on water in the first movie.
Soooo...
@@ThatAnArchyDude Look at the bar scene in the first movie.
@@yesbutcooler Yeah... what about it?
Don't see what that has to do with mentioning him having trouble running on water in the second movie like it was some change when it wasn't because he had the same problem in the first movie.... literally, the same movie with the bar scene in question.
So there was no point in even bringing up the second movie to illustrate your point.
So your point is stronger when considering he had that same problem in the same movie.
The one vs Apocalypse made sense to me. Looked like he got surprised and "turned off" his speed mode beause of the surprise. He also looked like he was constantly switching gears to punch Apocalypes around. He lost cause he was cocky.
The one with Jean Gray is strange. I remembet Martian Man Hunter once said he couldn't read Flash's mind when he thinks at super speed.
Yes, and MMH is known to actually HAVE super-speed. Not at Flash' level, but somewhere in the range of Superman, Shazam and Wonder Woman. Jean Grey has never, to my knowledge, in any incarnation been said to have 'super-speed'. Oh well, it was a crap movie for other reasons worse than this one.
they only had permission to use QS in the MCU for 1 film so not surprised they killed him off stupidly
Great video, consider looking into Beast Boy, he opened pandora's box too by transforming into alien species, the things he transforms into in some of the comic book canons make him theoretically insanely powerful
Does he have to KNOW about the alien, or can he just think "I need something that can crush an Imperial destroyer", and his power will rummage through the cosmos and find that giant asteroid snake from Empire Strikes Back?
I am not an expert or anything I just fell into a rabbit hole one day, but I think he has to know about the entity, it wasn't just aliens either, iirc in one of the comics he turns into a Phoenix, which could open the door for Mythological beasts too
He could turn into fucking STARRO THE CONQUERE, he's badass
If we can't apply abilities from the comics to the movies the why the fuck do we even make comic book movies?!?
I am not going to truly defend the Quicksilver/Jean Grey fight, but I will suggest a plausible reason. She has the Phoenix Force in her amping her abilities. So the moment Quicksilver thinks "I'll run at her from here" she knows his intention and removes the stepping stone debris. She's not reacting to him mid-run, she's reacting to before he even moved. It just LOOKS like she is reacting to him running.
It all comes down to superhero stories revolving around "what looks cool". It's the same reason starships fly like airplanes, alien women are always hot, and explosions always make that big orange gasoline fireball no matter what kind of explosive is used.
You can't expect much else from a medium that relies on mass-audience appeal.
X-Men movies don't do any character justice.
THEY SEEM TO GET MAGNETO RiGHT [NOT YELLiNG, JUZT LiKE TYPiNG iN CAPZ]
@RicoTheCEO_
Magneto Fassbender/Mckellen
Xavier /Mcaavoy Stewart
Quicksilver
And Of Course Wolverine
The Foxverse is over-hated. They want their colorful X-Men. Watch their annoying 90s series.
I actually prefer MCU Quicksilver because he displays a more realistic version of running fast. You should try doing a video on Makkari from Eternals.
Exactly. If someone was as fast as he’s portrayed with Evan Peters in X Men, who the hell could stop him without some asinine plot convenience or plot hole? Why not have him accomplish everything needing done?
Same here,the way they protrayed mcu quicksilver is actually my fav interpretation of a speedster
1:52 Quicksilver, as superboy, needs to have a force field protecting his clothes and everything he carries from being cut at these speeds.
His fight against Apocalypse is somewhat believable in the movie universe. since he could have distracted Quicksilver into breaking concentration with the leg hold to make him result in coming out of speed. And him noticing him doesnt mean he was able to fight him at the same speed, just means he could detect him since he does have alot of powers in the movie. His fight with jean only way i could say he lost that is somehow the phoenix force but i def agree that is not believeable. and MCU Quicksilver the shot in the arm he coulding have noticed the bullet but he def could have survived his death scene.
Apocalypse power is to be able to manipulate and control other mutants powers. That's how he took control of Cerebro when Xavier contacted him indirectly and how he empowered his Riders. It's reasonable to asume that he can use that power to limit or perceive Quicksilver powers. Maybe he even can "kick him out of" superspeed.
1:41 the water jets are not just shooting water, they contain hard minerals like quarts, ruby or even diamond.
The water has no where near the cutting power without.
really depends on the PSI, enough pressure and even without abrasive materials it still can cut. and im not talking out my ass here, operated a CNC machine for a couple of years and not all water jets have abrasive material, just high PSI
Many moons ago when Quicksilver first appeared in comics, he was as fast as mach 10 (according to google) which is 10 times the speed of sound an nowhere near the speed of light. That being said, I remember reading him being only as fast as twice the speed of sound in comic such as The Amazing Spiderman, I think.
Things have changed and now he is able to reach light speed . Which does not make sense because he doesn't have anything like the Speedforce to bend physics
@@Faster_than_light_yoSpeedforce is only a DC thing marvel or any other media speedsters don't need speedforce to be fast
only good thing about the boys was showing how insanely overpowered their speedster character is at any given moment. Literally took a random heart attack to beat the a train.
I Always understood his death as him pushing a car in front of Hawkeye and being caught up in the spreading fire from ultron, and it baffled me because how the hell did he push and flip over a car if he doesn't have super strength
E=Mc2 the more faster he moves the more mass he would be the stronger he would seem at higer speeds giving that he wont rip himself apart first
Ive said this all along. Imagine getting punches at 8 times the speed of sound, example if a bullet travels 700 mph and weights 7 grams, now a punch weighting in 5lbs traveling at Mach 8. This punch would literally wipe a city and vaporize the point of contact with just the kinetic energy. Assuming his arm is 5 kg: KE =1/2 (5)(2744to the pwer of 2) ≈18.8 × 10 to the power of 10 joules.
someone check his maths pls
His statement about it being able to vaporize a city is flat out wrong. That much joules would equal about 44.93 tons of tnt or city block level. Not city level.@@annunakim525
That would not vaporize a city
My guy, this isn't even 1 kilotons worth of TNT. It's not even 50 tons worth.
What city are you talking about, a Minecraft village? 😂
@daenite2480 it's 44.93 tons to be exact
Speedsters and time travels are the worst scenarios of all movies.
I agree with your video 1000%. These writers of these movies are lazy and stupid. And they think we are dumb too. The writers lack creativity
to start with. love your take on speedsters and agree with a lot of what you said. but the thing with apokalips is, he is smart and by that point in time has absorbed a shit ton of powers, one of which could have been super speed thinking or perception or some time of precognition which would explain the slow motion as he was watching it happen and we just saw his perspective. and the part about not breaking the hold on his leg is easy, apokalips was concentrating on holding his leg and when beast broke it he wasnt. and the scenes with jean, well that is harder i can only asume since like you said nothing was stated but she does say she feel more powerful and can do things she never could before so that might be hinting at gaining superthinking or some sort of precognition. and in the movie it is said that the cosmic power she got had a sort of mind of it's own so maybe it made her body move. and him getting injured well, she could have blocked his powers sensing him being a treat, we see profesor x do it all the time and her doing it later in the movie.
I think nerfing speedsters during the climax is a cheap way of making the bad guy seem stronger. think about it, it's always a formula. first scene: the speedster is super op and shows few to no weaknesses, then he has a big scene and saves a lot of people at once, making us think "wow, he's real shit". then, when it's convenient to the plot, he's killed off in an instant and the shock of his death makes us think "wow, they're dealing with some realer shit"
1:00 you can see the drops of water hitting his clothing. If it was simply he had durability, that would be one thing. Whatever magic he has, it's protecting him and his cloths as well. It has to be some kind of "aura" or something.
something like the speedforce, but that's for DC.
100% agree. You know what? We're dealing with speedsters, so 1 Billion % agree. I somewhat get the Jean Grey thing, because the rest of the movie shows her trying to suppress the Phoenix Force, and in this part, it was getting away from her. The PF is one of those Cosmic Entities that can essentially do anything (Jean moving her hand is just one of those stupid movie things they do, like making sounds in space). All your other examples are spot on. Hated them all.
This is a perfect example of what the writing community calls the “Pandoras Box Paradox” as in, you establish a character has a certain use with a power, or something within the context of your story is possible, which completely changes how everything works simply because of that one thing. And now in order to not be bullshit, you have to write AROUND that thing. Because if you don’t…. This video happens.
(I’ve unfortunately written a few pandoras boxes in my stuff and I’m trying to remedy them before I move on to actually releasing the story so this was a partial rant of my own personal experience :/)
Cue gojo from jjk. Perfect example, the writer even said it himself.
@ indeed. And my stupid self forgot that I allowed a character to use physics based “magic” to bend spacetime so he can fly, and then continued to write other characters using the same magic and them never flying
3:00 It looks like that's something he activated. Of course, I don't know why he was starting to.
3:33 Or at least dodge the leg break.
6:40 It's probably meant to be bounceback, but that doesn't work if he carried them.
In regards to the bullet, remember that not all ammunition travels at the same speed. Hawkeye used a Beretta Cheetah which normally has a velocity of 1000-1200 feet per second. Quicksilver was hit by an RPK bullet fired by the Sokovian police. RPK rounds have an average velocity of 2400 feet per second. That's at least twice the speed of the previous bullet.
Happens when a universe won't abide by its own rules. Just like how in End Game Thanos could stand up to any and all Avengers without having a single Infinity Stone.
i think apocalypse did it best because the main bad guy has mutation that allows him to adapt or think of anything and it is real...
so i think he just adapted to the superspeedy punches of quicksilver and grew a super speed brain, you can see his eyes turn into super speed eyes for a second before he gets white (doing my spell) eyes (sandgrab on qs foot)
also i think the sand around quicksilvers leg was magical until the bad guy was distracted/ beaten , only then could it be easily destroyed to free him
I have no idea why I like this... Thoughtful analysis of lazy movie writing!!! It's GREAT!!!
I like this video, you being logical bro.
In Justice League, Superman is as fast as the flash, so he's always fighting in slow motion? To me, it just crashes the enjoyment of the whole Superman concept. Super speed should be dropped, it is to OP.
Even in comic books they limit speedsters for if they use their potential, they can never lose and outsmart everyone. Superman had to suddenly get super speed to combat a speedster.
You’re right… I’ve never once seen a speedster lose in a ”realistic way”. And it’s not even that hard to do, just set up a trap you can’t run away from once triggered.
For example, explosions and shrapnel all around him, or just a simple trapdoor with spikes under it :p sounds silly, but if the hatch detaches completely from the ground, he can’t push off it, he will only fling the hatch away while moving himself very little. If there’s nothing in reach to grab onto, he will fall to his death.
Assuming it’s not flash, cause he is literally unkillable, since he can ”phade through matter”, so no matter what you do he could just go ”I’m not affected by matter right now, C-ya” or if he is surounded by nukes or something he can just go back in time.
But any speedster without godmode should die to simple traps
Maybe electrical trap will be better. Electrical charge is traveling at around 70% the speed of light in copper, and around 50% when traveling through air if that info about lightning is not a lie. If your target can react to this, then it's time to sit down and accept the inevitable - his/her powers are bull$h!t
I chalked up Quicksilver’s death to inexperience. I don’t think he had time with his powers to really explore what he could do, how fast he could really be, but if they had him discover that, the final fight with Ultron would have been over before it began, literally. Device disabled and Ultron switched off, in less than a single clock cycle for Ultron’s processor.
This is some shi I have been trying to tell people for years .
congrats on 1k subscribers 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Most writers and film makers just makes them like they have time manipulation powers,
"Plan of the observed situation and constant movement" that should be the speedsters weakness. They near stop a moment to think observe it and then move. Anything surprising will surprise them and be this "i can see it happening and i can't change it" thing. Think that's Cap. Colds (good written) plan when he manage to defeats Flash, a hidden ice spot where Flash not see but run in or such.
Also just because you can move as fast as a bullet don't mean you can move it, it still has force & trajectory and such have some precived weight, picking it up as in normal speed/time is not the same. imo
Dont know the comics, but what if the way Quicksilver can freeze time is by actually moving in place, vibrating if you will? Completely locking in his foot would then prevent his leg from making the mini movements needed to remain in super speed.
Now you ask, why not move the rest in super speed? That is because I feel like his resistance comes from his entire body moving so fast, not because he is actually resistant when still (like superman for example). So if he super moved while his leg is stuck, he probably would rip his own leg off. Or at least break it potentially worse than the villain did.
Just something to thibk about
The thing about speedsters is that they constantly alter how fast they think. If a speedster don't they go insane from everything being to slow for them this is the reason they lose to stupid reasons they weren't thinking at full speed and lost because of it
Almost all powerful super hero abilities have major inconsistencies when viewed against the real laws of physics. A speedster should burn up in our atmosphere almost instantly. A certain suspension of disbelief is required to enjoy movies like this.
Nicely done
Speedsters are always done wrong. I've always preferred characters being able to slow down, or nearly stop, time, as that leaves things open for them to not be totally OP, or just be completely inconsistent.
Yup. Fully agree that speedsters are the most OP characters, only topped by abstracts like Eternity or Death. I'd call the Phoenix Force, the distillation of all life, abstract enough. Jean Grey as the Phoenix uses her powers at the speed of thought, which at minimum human levels is something like 299,792,458 meters per second. The speed of electrical impulses in the human brain.
While I can agree that speedster powers are usually inconsistent, some of it is intentional. QS getting flung by Mjolnir and then hit by Cap is because he was stunned. Getting hit in the arm by a bullet is simply because he wasn't traveling at full speed and wasn't expecting a bullet from that direction. Just because he can travel at whatever times the speed of sound doesn't mean he is always traveling at that speed. His death in the MCU (while being a bit BS, admittedly) could easily be explained by exhaustion.
To the part about Jean Grey: technically if she can think so fast, she could use her telekinesis similarly fast to move her arm and the objects, though it would be unnecessary to move the arm then. Still agree she should have lost and its studip.
Not sure if someone mentioned this in the comments, but moving 8,000 times the speed of sound is about 1% of the speed of light. Another way to look at this is he would be moving 350 times faster than a spacecraft during re-entry into earth's atmosphere. Quicksilver's real super power is that when he moves that fast he doesn't instantly cause the atmosphere around him to explode into a massive fireball that destroys everyone in a mile radius.
#2 is the Kicker. Red Rush explains it perfectly.
9mm typically moving just around 1,000 fps. Equalling that would mean the bullets would stand still, so he was moving/thinking slightly slower. That is waaaaaayyyyy faster than comics Quicksilver, who tops out at 175 mph most of the time. Apocalypse has been shown to be very adaptable in the comics, however, and yes, bitch slapped Quicksilver easily. This is the guy who can amp other mutants when they join his service and has adapted Celestial technology for his own use. He can literally manipulate the molecules of his body for his needs.
The movie version of Apocalypse wasnt given a great setup or much depth, but that is why he could overcome Quicksilver so easily.
MCU Quicksilver is pretty relatable to the standard comics version except where he can see the bullets in slow motion. 175 mph vs 1000 fps is pretty unbelievable. It works out to about 681 mph. He could perceive it but couldn't catch up to it or avert it. He might be able to get in front and eat the bullets, but why not move something instead to not have to die?
Water at 60,000psi is dangerous, but the cutting power of a water jet service is due to the garnet medium IN the water… it is a concentrated sandblaster… not just water pouring into the surface cutting through.
you do realise not all of them use abrasive material and just high PSI, and yeah even at a lower psi than 60k it can still cut. also sandblaster and a water jet two completely different things, ive worked with both for a couple of years and thats a terrible comparison mate.
Invincible did speedsters right imho. Red Rush was basically always in super speed mode. Even a short conversation felt like hours to him, and the only reason he lost to Nolan is because he went on the offensive.
If RR had stayed on defense he would've been untouchable.
Also the two quicksilver scenes from Xmen are epic.
I mean the whole thing takes place off screen and all we see is a blue blur. It's possible MCU Quicksilver took the bullets AS he moved Hawkeye and stumbled backwards as we see him speak.
Also, he seems to turn his power off and on and as you mentioned, tires. If he's not moving at super speed _before_ he's aware of the bullets, it's reasonable that he might take a shot (referring to the shot in the arm). It's also interesting that the shot never seemed to hinder him in any way. We've seen speedsters in other media have quicker healing and metabolism (The Flash) but we didn't get to know enough about Quicksilver.
Apocalypse can literally recreate any mutant power at will. His eyes weren't just tracking Quicksilver, they were adapting while he generated the same power within himself.
whenever a speedster "saves" or "rescues" someone i always think "how is that person not ripped into pieces from the sudden speed or sudden stop?"
They forget that if a speedster is defeated by Apocalypse or Jean like that, it implies that these characters are able to take action that quickly, so they should be able to beat everyone else at the same speed. Apocalyspe could just decapitate the X-Men using dust like those Egyptians at the beginning of the movie and Jean could just push everyone before they notice it (Quicksilver hardly noticed it and he wasn't able to react) with force that breaks bones.
MCU Quicksilver for me is consistent, not overpowered, I agree that him just pushing everybody it's just lazy and uncreative, but I think it is well shown that he has limits in perception, yes he is able to see his surroundings in slow motion, but that does not mean he is able to notice everything (like this one bullet).
However, his death scene was still poorly done.
Quicksilver shouldn't lose against apocalypse. After the first hit, he could adjust his speed since force = mass times acceleration. The faster the speed, the harder the hit if you don't increase the mass
It's also why whenever I see a Batman vs Superman scene where Batman wins I lose interest because Supes can keep up with the flash so before Bruce could even finish his thought of making his move Superman would have ended the fight 20 times over
To be fair to MCU Quiksilver, he was still inexperienced in comparison to X-Men Quicksilver when it comes to handling his abilities. Also, he showed himself to be quite arrogant and complacent compared to X-Men Quicksilver so it explains how he lost so easily to veterans like Captain America and Thor. Then again, if the writers ACTUALLY make good use of Speedsters, they (the Speedsters) will become unstoppable and defeat everyone before their teammates can blink, thus taking away their glory in the battles. I think Dash from the Incredibles universe is one of the only examples of Speedsters done right in media. After all, Dash is fast but he still has limits and doesn't have OP abilities like Quicksilver (Marvel) and Flash (DC). A-Train from The Boys universe is similar to Dash as the show clearly depicts how destructive a Speedster can be to their surroundings every time he uses his powers.
The fight against Apocalypse is rated a little unfairly imo. Apocalypse is said to have "Super Speed" (From Wiki on Apocalypse: Superhuman Speed: By infusing his body with energy he is able to speed up his reflexes and reaction time in which to seemingly move at super speeds. It is this ability that allows him to counteract others with super-speed powers themselves.) so I would put it down to him using that ability to take out Quick Silver.
As for Jean Grey / Phoenix fight, I agree he should've been able to dodge that. Even if Phoenix can think at super speed, Quick Silver would have had time to adjust, roll / tumble to prevent the landing he had and then be able to get back up and try again. However, to be fair, as stated in the video, if they wrote speedsters properly, then they would be untouchable Gods.
You first saw him in days of future past.We, many of us, saw him in X-Men comics, or later in Avengers comics. He runs a couple of hundred miles per hour, depending on the writer. Or artist.
The movies all screw up every single character's power and none of them are consistent scene to scene, let alone movie to movie.
Quicksilver is consistently one of the single most unlikable characters in the comics and none of his live action media appearances are in any way true to him. He is domineering, cruel, loudmouthed, arrogant, ineffectual and a pervert. In over sixty years of being portrayed in the comics he has never had even one friend. A wife that tried to "cure" him, the sister he had an incestuous relationship with, but no friends.
He is a real piece of work, and a mere shade in the movies.
Now in the MCU Quicksilver I'm assuming that he pushed them and didn't pick them up and so they slid over there and he was still not covered that's the only way it makes sense but even then it's bit of a stretch
The problem with Quicksilver in the MCU is that he was added to fill a hole left when they decided not to include Wonderman. This had a cascade effect resulting in Cosmic Karen and a shitty Scarlet Witch story. Had they included him, WM would have died for the team, returned from the dead cosmically powered, saved the day, and then had a love triangle with SW and Vision.
pretty sure a youtuber made a theory on quicksilver having control over gravity and inertia and has some form of skin density
Yeah
Theory isn't fact though, especially outside of scientific context
@@daenite2480 he used science to prove it, its not a theory if he proved it
@@iatianegs quicksilver does not exist. He's fictional.
There's no science for how his powers work, that's up to the writer.
@@daenite2480 dont have to explain why this comment is bs.
preach my dude, you are correct.
I agree with both losses being a little too contrived and lazy.
I will defend Marvel on Age of Ultron Quicksilver. He is young, untrained, and inexperienced with his abilities. Which is a reasonable explanation for some of his amateur decisions and power applications.
Still not an excuse for moving back out from behind the car. I guess I could stretch it and say there are some bullet holes on the left side of the car where Quicksilver would have been standing while hold on Hawkeye. So maybe he caught the few bullets that penetrated and “staggered” backwards injured. I am really working to cover their butt with that one though.
I always thought his death in Age of Ultron was really dumb.
Jean is telekinetic...theose are the perfect counters to speedstars.those and teleporters.dunno why flash ain't got such villains but Capt cold
Holding up a telekinetic shield is fine -- show the speedster bouncing off the invisible wall. But make sure the TK planned ahead by putting up the shield BEFORE the speedster showed up.
You don't try to put on a Kevlar vest while the gunman is drawing on you -- you put it on at home.
And the power output to stop a moving speedster would be massive -- don't show the TK doing that if he was straining to open a locked door.
@stevenscott2136 bro if I was a telekinetic, I'd have a barrier around me all the time.after all it's invisible.its why I like gojo in jjk....he knows his power and abuses it
@@wambokodavid7109 Sure if you can it would be smart. But presumedly it takes energy to use your abilities so keeping them going 24/7 might not be possible.
@@Ahglock nah, he'd win
@@wambokodavid7109 Stamina allowing.
I agree with everything else but It’s pretty clear that apocalypse enhanced his perception speed to see quicksilver.
Pretty sure Pietro moved the car in front of Clint instead of moving Clint. If that car was right next to Clint the whole time he would've just jumped behind it. And Pietro didn't race over there to push him over 2 ft. He grabbed a car on the way. Which is a more impressive feat as he moved a whole car. The death overall is extremely stupid because whether or not he moved Clint or the car, he didn't need to stop moving.
This reminds me of Gubz
If you can't write a character with consistency... THEN DON'T USE THE CHARACTER!!!
Marvel and DC constantly change so much shit from the comics for shows and movies, which makes sense. Some stuff just wouldn't work through those mediums. So treat speedsters the same. If a speedster is too hard to write, then don't use them. If characters randomly have their power scaling drop or rise to that degree, every fight has absolutely no weight to it.
Jean definitely makes sense especially if she’s using her telepathy to move her arm
Now the Apocalypse one does have an in-movie explanation. Apocalypse basically evolves the ability to see as fast as Quicksilver moves. You can see it in how his eyes literally change before he is able to see Quicksilver, so I can give that one a pass. The Jean Grey one is absolute trash though. Phoenix powers or no, there is no way she can think anywhere near as quickly as Quicksilver
The funniest thing of all is that Evan Peters' Quicksilver fits better with the rest of the MCU while Aaron Taylor's Quicksilver and even Wanda herself would fit better in the Foxverse and Peters with one scene and little screen time won over the public
I do find a lot of sense in Apocalypse, he was the most powerful mutant and he was quick to attack Quicksilver
With the MCU, it seems to me an excuse to take him out of the MCU due to the rights since I don't find any sense in him dying that way
PD Dark Phoenix never existed, it's not canon
He's not slowing down time. We're just seeing the detail that he sees. Just like Superman didn't "turn back time" or "turn back the earth" in the original movie. He just TRAVELED back in time and that's how it was expressed on the screen.
Also. Quicksilver was nowhere near this fast in the comics. They essentially turned him into The Flash for the movie. In the comics, I think he ran about 200 MPH. One thing that he and The Whizzer could do that they never did on TV or movies was swim through the air.
But speedsters SHOULD have varying levels of immunity to punches, projectiles and explosions because the force would hit them slowly, depending on the level of their manipulation of inertia. Bullets and punches injure you because they transfer energy to your body faster than your body can handle it without tearing/breaking. In the real world, a bullet or a punch from Superman or The Hulk would still injure a 200 MPH comics-accurate Quicksilver, but only move The Flash. The MCU Quicksilver should be bulletproof and fall proof, and impervious to most explosions that don't produce great heat. Flash would have to worry more about wrestling moves and bones being broken if they grab him. But the Flash could literally punch Hulk or Superman and deliver more energy with a faster punch, or punch them a million times and build up enormous damage the same way water can cut diamonds.
The tv show The Flash was the worst speedster ever, and it was , like, the main theme of the show. It seemed the writers didn't give a single thought about how cool it would be to be Flash.
E.g., they could have the freeze gun be dangerous to Flash by simply assuming that Captain Cold had invented a device that fires automatically at anything approaching him. Since any detector would work almost as fast as light, that would have been ok.
Apocalypse can change his own body and power set as a part of his powers.
The Phoenix force (literally the name of the movie) is a fundamental power of the universe created when the universe was created.
Well, yeah, all that you said is true, from a physics standpoint, but that wouldn't make an exciting movie would it? If Quicksilver just beat every threat in an instant.
All superheroes and supervillains with powers? Their powers are always best broken down to be, "They have the power to break the laws of physics in any way necessary to achieve the effect shown in the story."
i think QS didnt move hawkeye, but the car, bc if i remember correctly, the car wasnt anywhere close. so he moved the car to act as a shield, but got shot in the process.
this is still dumb but i always thought that as he wasnt THAT fast, it was the only think he could do.
Also, what about the people he is carrying? They don't have super durability. UNLESS, anything he is holding, carrying, or touching is afforded super durability, which would explain why his clothes stay intact.
I think mcu quicksilver can only push people with his super speed because he lacks the super durability to not damage himself eith a super speed punch or snap jis wrists with the jerk of grabbing on to something that won't move with him (somewhat like the hammer). I think his death is supposed to be read as him saving Hawkeye by crashing into him and pushing him out of the way, but that collision transferred away all of his kinetic energy so he stops dead. Presumably this is how he zig zags between targets without super strength to take sudden deceleration.
I always assumed Quicksilver in Age of Ultron moved the car in front of Hakweye and the boy. Although, I am not sure how the bullets didn't hit the car.
There were holes.
Actually if you think about it, all of the speedsters when using their power and traveling at speed would have to have an incredible level of durability. For example, if someone turns a corner at a little over 30 mph with a 70 ft radius, they will pull about 1 G of centrifugal force to turn that corner. But the force applied is related to the SQUARE of the speed. So going around that same corner at oh 300 mph would require a centrifugal force of 100 G's. That same corner at the speed of sound would be exceeding 500 G. Since the normal human body passes out by 8 G's except for the most physically fit people, and a body at 80 G's would pancake and bones breaking, there seems to be an issue even going around a corner.
Of course the only way to really explain this is for them to no longer be part of normal reality while traveling at such speeds. Within the "bubble" of their speed action, something changes so the normal laws do not apply OR such that normal laws apply in a muted fashion. They effectively are within their own warp in time and space (hence they can perceive and act normally while everything around is drastically slowed down. Otherwise they would be dead the moment they accelerated and inertial forces from that acceleration turned them into jam.
I don't think Quicksilver is actually durable as you say. I think for all (most?) speedsters, we're meant to ignore the effect of speed on their momentum most of the time. Yeah they can deliver strong blows, but at that speed everything including them should turn into mush. When Quicksilver moves those people around, they should be getting splattered.
And with the bullet hitting him in the arm he may have super speed but if he doesn't see it it'll still hit his ass he doesn't have super perception but really it just shows how stupid it is running into gunfire without looking
TBH all of these things are problem with how the movies decided to show things.
The Apocalypse fight well it seems to me Apocalypse used his abilities to amp his speed giving himself temporary superspeed on the level of quicksilver just like he used them to amp others in the movie. The problem is they didn't make this clear enough this is what was going on TBH they should of had Apocalypse amp himself in some way before the Quicksilver fight.
As for the Jean Grey fight the only problem is they had her appearing to move in the slow-mo effect instead she should have hit Quicksilver with her telekinesis pulse attack ending the slow-mo super speed effect before we see her move.
As for Quicksilver in Age of UItron the problem is they messed it up by:
1. not showing what Quicksilver actually did which would make it clear to us how Quicksliver was hit.
2. putting Quicksilver in the wrong place he should have been behind the car with Hawkeye if he moved Hawkeye or leaning on the car if he moved the car this would make it clear that Quicksilver just wasn't fast enough to pull off what ever he attempted to do and so was hit.
3 the bullet wounds should have done though Quicksilver sideways making it clear he run across the line of fire.
It's not a problem, it's simply that you don't understand. Of course they would never lose if they use their speed that way all the time, but the point is not to be a f****** power fantasy. The point is to make an enjoyable story and characters that never lose or not f****** enjoyable
I would make a point to say that quicksilver does not have super strength. It's his insanely fast speed that is doing ALL the damage. Not that super speed is weaker- on the contrary. The potential kinetic energy can be quantified using this equation: (KE= 1/2 *m*v²) in SI units, the mass should be in kilograms and the velocity in meters per second. If you double the mass of an object you only double it's kinetic potential, but if you double it's speed, the output gets quadrupled. In this case, he is throwing his punches and they are hitting twice as hard as someone with double his mass. Now I will say that Quicksilver DOES NEED durability beyond that of normal humans, in fact, his durability is insane. As you mentioned before, water droplets in the air should have shredded him to goop as he moved through them. He would need durability beyond that of bulletproof vests- but everywhere, except maybe his eyes, as he has goggles- which probably would not hold up to collisions at those speeds- but their purpose is likely for wind protection, instead of debris, and he likely simply moves out of the way for objects about to collide with his eyes. I say this because he is moving at such insane speeds that the wind pressure caused by him jogging, would likely be enough force to eject his eyeballs from their sockets. If you have enough speed to watch explosions barely move, then you have enough time to dodge some debris coming at your face, so his goggles are not likely, in reality, used for debris protection in general.
But I believe with speeds like this it would take another being who is JUST as fast to take him on, no one without his level of speed should be able to touch him, as you mentioned- and showed direct evidence showing his ability to simply slow time down even at rest. This completely negates future sight, predictions, random guesses- as he can simply...... move out of the way... Nothing is as fast as he is in these clips, it would be like your friend being able to punch you if he moved at the speed of moss growing.... There is no way that is happening without you letting it. But where would the challenge be if he could simply not be touched- not be stopped... He would be the most powerful being in that instance. He needs a challenge- some obstacle. So they resort to trying to fill this requirement with their lack of understanding, which looks like bullshit to any critical thinker. It results in inconsistent powers and what looks like plot convenience or plot holes. Hopefully we can get super heroes whose powers never compromise with lack of understanding in the future.
Unpopular opinion, I think eternals had the best speedster. He speed was illustrated really cool and she was extremely heavily involved in the plot to dumb her powers down....but yeah speedsters are OP
Apocalypse has a better understanding of mutant powers than the owner of said powers. Who is to say with all the body swaps he has done that he didn't swap out with a speedster before?
It's funny how these examples could've been easily corrected
Can We all agree that The Best Speedster with also the best VFX is the one In ETERNALS!