One thing I love that no one has commented on - when the girls and boys meet up to explore the hotel together and the couples pair off, Nick and Charlie go find an alcove where they can finally be intimate in private. Although their first inclination is to kiss, it quickly switches to a check-in. In that moment, they are most concerned with connecting emotionally, and only once that intimacy is established are they ready to go back to the physical intimacy. I think represents an inflection point in their relationship arc. In the beginning, they couldn't keep their hands and lips off each other because "kissing is so much fun" and exploring the physical side of intimacy is really excited with a new partner. As deeper stuff comes to the surface, the urge to connect emotionally becomes more important. From then on, physical intimacy becomes an extension of that emotional intimacy. We see this in Nick's recharging scene, in time they spend in bed together after Nick's coming out, in the ways they touch each other to comfort each other through the ups and downs of Ep 7, and throughout every moment of Ep 8. Being open, vulnerable, present, and supportive are all wrapped up in the ways they touch each other and celebrate their deepening connection.
I really like that it's James that asks about keeping it a secret. This is something subtle that Alice does a really good job of, of centring queer characters in the queer narratives even in tiny ways like this. Because ultimately, the fact that it's James rather than one of the core members of Nick and Charlie's friend group who says this does highlight the fact that James shares this important link to those characters too. It comes back to James talking about how nice it is to hang out with other gay people earlier in the season too. (Though it does also bring up the question: was James outed? Is he speaking out of an abundance of caution because of past experience, or is he just speaking because he gets it in a more general sense?)
While I enjoy some “first time watching” reactions, I really love your approach. So thoughtful and informed. I really appreciate how you take the material seriously. Some of your interpretations and thoughts match mine exactly, but sometimes you give me food for thought! One thing about this show that you call out is how beautiful the scenes without dialogue are. In this episode, just seeing Nick and Charlie together in the bed chatting and sleeping, with The Deep End playing, just chokes me up every single time. It’s so rare for a show or cast of characters to get this deep emotional reaction from me. 💘💔 ❤️🩹 😭😢🥹😊😍🥰🤩🤗🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈
Loved what you picked up on about Stéphane. The nearest he gets to sharing any emotion at all with Nick is “so good to see you in Paris” - pretty much everything else he says is readable in terms of whether Nick has sufficiently earned his approval. No wonder Charlie, who’s an expert at this game with Jane, is so alive to the impact it’s having on Nick - the “I want you to be there” champion of emotional openness. Thank you for picking up on the micro-expressions that rush across Nick’s face as he hears his dad finally admit to a feeling -”I miss that boy”, about his BROTHER - and then go straight for the implication that Nick’s a rather disappointing substitute who doesn’t have as many girlfriends as David. UGH, ugh, UGH. Thank goodness for Sarah Nelson …
I hate fathers like this who don't give a damn about their kids. Before I knew my niece would end up in divorce, she had a birthday party for her three kids, all born in February. I asked where Mike was. She gave me an excuse for him. What father would skip his kids' birthday party?
I think that the previous two days in Paris have really helped prepare Nick for coming out at the Truth or Dare session. He has held hands with Charlie on the train and in several spots around the city, taking courage from the openly gay couple in the Le Marais district. He has embraced Charlie around their mutual friends and taken lots and lots of pictures of the two of them together. He's had the opportunity to feel what it's like to be open and free with his affection, and given that Nick's love language is touch, that's got to be really meaningful to him. I think part of him understands that if he really wants that, he has to seize this moment to come out, or it will be ages before he can control the narrative again around so many people. If he lets it pass, then he'll either be forced to hide again (no sitting together on the coach for the ride back), or he'll have to address every single person's surprise when he slips up and shows affection for Charlie in public. Of course, I don't want to minimize how important it was to Nick to be able to deflect some of the unwanted attention from Charlie and help Charlie out in that moment of extreme discomfort, but his readiness to say what needed to be said came from getting that taste what it was like to be out and free.
56:40 Yep. There’s nothing wrong with them for not being ready for more intimacy beyond kissing. They’re 15 and 16 years old. They haven’t been going out that long and Nick is newly out. Makes sense that they’d want to take things slow.
I noticed that Charlie finally gets his side of the bed! While they have The Talk and work through the awkwardness of it all, Charlie has crawled over to the other side of the bed. Once that's resolved and they are ready to talk the whole night through, Charlie reclaims his rightful side (mirroring Ep 3, as mentioned). That means at some point Nick acknowledges this and swaps with him, which is probably a cute little tension-diffusing moment that I am sad we missed.
I think you said absolutely everything I would have said about this one! Let's overlook the fact that Mr Farouk will 100% have to report Darcy when he gets back to school. If he worked at Higgs I would generously assume that he had some insight into her home life and felt she was more at risk if she faced consequences for her actions, but given that he's unlikely to know that, I can't think of any excuse! I am never going to be able to watch it now without imagining the animated stink lines coming from the sheets... Spot on with Nick and Charlie's conversation about not being ready to take things further, it is 100% accurate to my life at that age. Plus the show is aimed at younger viewers. There are 11 yr olds watching this that need to be equipped in how to have conversations around consent and this provides them with a perfect script. Its a lot healthier than something like Grease which I was watching at that age. Thanks for the wonderful, thoughtful and funny video, as ever!
Thank you for this, Thom, I just returned from holiday and as I kept getting notifications about this video I was like I need to see it already! :) Well, first things first - Nick’s Dad really pisses me off, he has a wonderful son who he keeps pushing away from him for reasons that are basically non-existent. I mean, sir, he’s not a child anymore, he can see there’s something seriously wrong and if you really want to leave him out of his life so badly at least have the decency to give him a valid explanation, because ghosting is never okay, let alone when it’s your SON who’s done nothing wrong. On the more positive note, Tao and Elle sharing news about their relationship is adorable (and it also reminds me of Grease for some reason :D ) and you’re right, Nick is pretty hardcore shipper of Tao and Elle and has been secretely and subtly trying to give them privacy in the first Paris trip episode. And the excitement on his face when he learns the news is unmatched. I’m really glad that Nick can see through Charlie’s deflecting and still calmly insists on actually talking about problematic triggering stuff, but I’m also worried that Charlie still calculates a bit with what he’s saying to him to make him feel less worried, but more on that later. Also, the entire Paris squad out in the wild streets of Paris is adorable, especially Nick and Charlie being less and less afraid of showing affection towards each other. You can see Nick gaining confidence in his sexuality from other queer couples a lot actually - the most notable moment is Tara and Darcy at Harry’s party and also today’s webcomic update (no spoilers) :). I feel like Tara being disappointed with Darcy bringing vodka to her party might be down to the fact she knows that she’s struggling with something, but tries to look like he’s ignoring it and she might also be worried that there might be more drunk people at her party and it’s gonna go south. And also the way Charlie shuts the door into Harry’s face after his most generic „apology“ is absolutely epic. I actually like that all he said was NO. Because honestly, let’s normalize that no means no, without the necessity of giving any explanation. Does Harry even remotely realize what he’s done to Charlie? It’s not just banter, he almost killed him. And finally, Nick and Charlie’s intimate moments in this episode are just so soft and beautiful - the tenderness of „recharging“, Charlie’s little peck on Nick’s cheek and their all nighter spent just by talking and kissing and above it all the freedom and relief after the coming out... Thank you for bringing back the subject of Nick and Charlie not having „hanky-panky“ being a thing. I’ve seen comments everywhere about how untruthful the series is, which is frankly ridiculous. We’re talking about a 15 year old boy who’s suffering from major body dysmorphia (+ he has recently been sexually assaulted) and a 16 old guy who’s just figuring his sexuality, it’s only normal that they want to wait and the fact that they are able to have such a healthy conversation about consent is something that really needs to be seen more in the media.
Stéphane did end up leaving some euros on the table before he sprinted off, so as dismissive and lacklustre as that interaction was, at the very least he didn’t leave Nick and Charlie with the bill for the invisible coffees. This episode, for me, highlights how brilliant Heartstopper is as an adaptation. I love the differences and how they’re developed here: we actually meet Nick’s dad after the unanswered texts, the distance between Tara and Darcy gets partially resolved but leaves more to be explored, and everything with Isaac and James is so achingly melancholic. And yet, we get really iconic and important scenes ripped straight off of the page. From small details like the landmarks they see, to the game of truth or dare, to the teachers’ tender moments, and the Nick and Charlie/Tao and Elle moments over the ensuing night, they get everything PERFECTLY right. Not many adaptations can get right that balance of honouring the source material while expanding the world in a way that fits so seamlessly as this. Everything I was gonna say about sexuality in this show you pretty much captured in your analysis of Nick and Charlie’s important conversation about consent. I will add that an important thing that gets demonstrated here is how *enthusiastic* consent must be, as shown when Charlie picks up on Nick’s hesitant “yes.” I agree that it is a realistic choice for these characters not to proceed physically for now, and that it does not make this show sex negative in the slightest. And you’re right, many of us do wish we’d waited a little bit longer. (Just a teeny bit in my case.) I also agree with you on the matter of Charlie’s saying that he’d be okay if Nick never wanted to go further. It does send a good message, and I know couples where one is allo and the other aspec, and they have wonderful relationships. That said, I do get maybe a smidge more of a sense of sadness from that line, only because right before he says it, Nick assures Charlie that he does want to go further one day, and before that, Nick assured him that he was enjoying what they were doing. So this fits in with a pattern of Charlie dismissing Nick’s reassurance or concern, and putting other people’s needs before his own. At least, in my viewing of it. I love your take on the different cuddling positions being a representation of the balance of their relationship! So beautiful. Lovely video as always Thom! Edit: aspec autocorrected to aspect lol
My continued campaign thanking everyone who talks about this scene between Nick and Charlie and about how it’s okay not to be ready for “hanky-panky” continues with this video. Thank you for that discussion. It really annoyed me that some people think this series is somehow unrealistic because Nick and Charlie aren’t ready. The “drag queens react” video was the worst of it, and so I’m thanking everyone who goes against that narrative because that video made me so angry about it.
The most realistic thing ever is acknowledging that there is a probability distribution over time about when people are going to be ready to advance to certain milestones of intimacy. Regardless of how many people are ready at 15 or 16, there will always be people who feel ready earlier and those who feel ready later. Lots of people wait for any number of reasons, and the people who rail that it is unrealistic are the ones who somehow cannot imagine outside their own experience.
Right! I was fuming with the "drag queens react". Charlie is just 15, and Nick is just 16! (Well, I’m gay and already 23 and haven’t done that yet.) I love Heartstopper because it’s just a breath of fresh air. I’m done with the oversexualized queer media.
yeah, I usually like Trixie and Katya, but that really rubbed me the wrong way. When you’re 15/16, not even two queer boys together are automatically going to feel ready to rip their clothes off and go at it the first time they get a chance. And when you consider Charlie’s mental health issues and the fact that Nick just realized he isn’t straight a couple months ago? Of course they’re going to be a little unsure. Speaking as a cis gay man (tho admittedly one who’s on the ace spectrum), this generalized ideal in gay culture that all mlm dudes should be dtf at any given moment is really annoying.
Hi Thom, Great video! The one thing that stands out to me in episode 6, perhaps, one of the most important statements of the entire series, is Mr. Ajayi telling Mr. Farouk that there is no age limit for having beautiful first experiences. I think those words of reassurance are part of the reason Heartstopper is so incredibly appealing to people of all of ages. It telegraphs so clearly that it doesn't matter where you are in life, you can experience the beauty and excitement of love at any age. Heartstopper is so amazing to me because of the way it relentlessly appeals to our better senses with unbelievable candor and sincerity. Kindness, openness, acceptance, caring, and loving are celebrated without a trace of cynicism or skepticism. Every time I watch Heartstopper I feel like my emotions are free to breathe and exist in an atmosphere free of shame and censure. In the past I have so often felt the need to pretend to be too urbane or sophisticated to appreciate the innocence and beauty of a story as sweet and pure as Heartstopper. Oseman has created something so special and liberating it feels absolutely essential. Can you tell I LOVE Hearstopper? Thanks again, Thom, for creating a such a wonderful place to express ourselves.
What I find curious about the Ben truth/dare scene is that he didn’t say anything or get defensive until *after* Charlie said no. Which makes me wonder if maybe part of him for a moment would have considered doing it “for the dare”, since he seemed to be getting into the game. Or would he have said no anyway (in this extremely hypothetical nightmare universe where Charlie wouldn’t have been adamantly against kissing Ben) because he wouldn’t have wanted to feed into whatever rumors were started by Imogen’s outburst? I also find Imogen’s look as Ben is denying things really interesting - I wonder if she’s feeling a bad about saying the Charlie thing in front of everyone, now that she’s realized she was right. I’m really curious about Ben’s behavior in this episode, because I think it has a lot to do with his transition into the apology in the next one. Especially the part where Charlie slams the door in Harry’s face, and Ben stares at him being celebrated for it (angstily, as you said). I want to know what he’s thinking there. Part of me kind of thinks this night, as well as Nick coming out, is what causes him to admit to himself that he actually wants to be openly queer, but that he can’t because of his parents. He sees how well everything seems to be going for Nick and Charlie and thinks “I want that.”
I have a theory! Hear me out: David and Stephan both enjoy and bond over rugby, right? And we can assume David’s enjoyed rugby since he was young, right? I think the reason Nick first got into rugby was so he could have something to bond with his dad over because he noticed how David and Stephan bonded over it (and then, of course, he grew to genuinely enjoy it)
The actor playing Stephane is a very famous actor called Thibault de Montalembert , he has one of the lead roles in call my agent , which is also an amazing series on Netflix
15:11 Isaac brought the book with him because he didn't want to be bored if there was any downtime. He also brought ten other books with him for his one week trip, because he would clearly have time to read them all. Edit: Issac is me
If you ever have the time I’d love a heartstopper book club where we read one of the books Isaac reads in the show and have like a live show every couple of months to discuss the books. I know you have a life and you don’t have to but it would be super cool one day.
Strange coincidence: I watched a S2E6 reaction from another channel today, and the reactor was wearing the same shirt you're wearing in this video. You both have great taste! I loved your editing in this video! The end result was definitely worth putting your poor laptop through the flames of hell for. 🔥🔥Good job! I noticed something with the subtitles: When Nick's dad calls his name, it's suddenly spelled "Nicolas" instead of "Nicholas". I love the "Where's Waldo?" (aka "où est Charlie?") scene so much! It's both adorable and funny. The "it matters to me" line broke me. Ow. I love that Mr. Farouk's story matters so much to all of us who have realized our queerness as adults. It's refreshing, in a show about young queer love, to not only also have an adult perspective on the same theme, but to more specifically have a late bloomer adult perspective. "I don't think there's an age limit on those" is especially powerful for those of us who haven't yet had any (youthful or not) moments of discovery yet. It's not too late for us :') Oh the comparison between Nick and Charlie's first kiss and the kiss between James and Isaac blew my mind! Thank you for explaining once again why showing teens who are not ready to be physically intimate with each other doesn't mean that Hearstopper is anti-sex. I just hate that it has to be said every time! OH MY GOD I can't wait to hear you talk about Imogen! 👀👀👀 I totally approve of the longer gaps between your videos. They are definitely worth the wait. 😉 Thank you for everything you do!
And as for Heartstopper being anti-sex, if you read some of the stuff Alice has written that’s set later on in Nick & Charlie’s relationship, you’ll see that they eventually become quite enthusiastic about it.
I like the part where charlie says “let’s walk back to the bus you can rant about him the whole way there “ and you see nick look down like Charlie held his hand again it’s really cute
10:55 I was thinking that Nick's dad knew that he had already scheduled a work call when he agreed to meet up with Nick. He was likely hoping that Nick would say, no, he couldn't meet up that quickly.
Last season it seemed like everyone caught on to the yellow and blue color scheme with Charlie and Nick...and that is still carried on in season 2, albeit a little more subtly... This season, I noticed a color theme that it seems no reaction videos have mentioned....this season's cinematography deals with the over saturation of color versus the draining of color. The scenes when Charlie and Nick are happy and secure, there is this golden glow and/or an oversaturated color palate that create this dreamlike quality that reflects and accentuates their happiness (giddiness) in their newly committed relationship. But this season, when there is conflict or doubt, those scenes have a subdued or a drained color palate. The easiest example of this is when Harry and his minion comes to the door of the party....the room itself is drenched in color and warmth, and the hallway is in greyish/blue colors that makes Harry appear to be in black and white....when David is introduced, the lighting in the Nelson apartment is almost like early evening, not the normal golden glow of earlier scenes....and when Charlie and Nick speak on the balcony, they are again in evening, color subduing lighting, just outside of the over drenched color inside the party room. To me this added to the season and helped us feel the way about scenes that Alice and Eros wanted us to feel. When Charlie and Nick come to the party, they stand in the hallway at the door looking like they are in black and white, then the door opens and the fully oversaturated colors of friendship and freedom comes to welcome them inside....no wonder this is the room that Nick feels safe enough to come out in front of a room of people! It reminds me of the Wizard of Oz, when Kansas is in black and white and Oz is in full saturated color.
48:37 Kid 1 also was in the museum room when Charlie passed out (they were standing with Harry's friend from the door slam denial.) Both of them were laughing at the situation, so that kinda tells me everything I need to know about them 😶
What I find interesting though is Ben sneaks in where Harry actually knocks and asks to come in. Harry even tries apologizing to Nick specifically then asks once again to come in where Ben has to sneak around.
This is definitely my favourite episode of the season. So much character development. So many feels. Perfectly sets up the final 2 episodes. And Tobie's performance as Isaac is particularly brilliant
I loved that scene of Aled on the balcony. He's perfectly content and there is no crisis. He's a demisexual and the only person that he can look at so lovingly is back home
A little internet sleuthing revealed that Kid 1 was called Millie in the script and is played by an actor named Ruby Mendoza. There are some behind the scenes pics of Ruby in costume wearing a Higgs uniform with trousers as well as a tux for prom. Unfortunately, I don’t know if any of that made it into the final cut of the show. I certainly never noticed Kid 1 outside of the Paris scenes (but then again I wasn’t really looking; I’ll have to keep my eyes peeled next time I rewatch). But it is interesting to note that Higgs apparently doesn’t mandate skirts for the students.
10:05 I don’t speak Japanese but there was a song in the ‘80s by Styx called “Mr. Roboto” There’s a line in it, “domo arigato, Mr. Roboto.” So hearing people pronounce that restaurant so terribly would be frustrating!
Re: Sahar and Imogen Yes, it's noteworthy that they've fallen asleep together. However, I have Tao's experience that when I have feelings for someone, I feel like I'm being electrocuted when I am simply close to them; falling asleep next to my crush would be impossible. Ep 8 has us feeling a certain type of way, but I have mixed feelings at the evidence presented here. To me it seems that, at this particular time and place, they are still just friends. I'm not saying this is evidence that it's all they'll ever be, but that's what they are now.
After having established blue and yellow as the thematic colors in Season 1, the Production Team decided that Season 2's color palette was going to be "pink and pistachio." In my opinion, that's why all the girls are wearing green on Day 3 - it's because wardrobe got the memo and just went matchy-matchy that day for the sake of aesthetics. Also, it is plausible that the girls got together and decided to coordinate for their last day, as that is something that the ladies sometimes do in my office.
And the green is particularly symbolic for Nick & Charlie. The blue and yellow represent the 2 boys as individuals, but mix them and you get green. 2 becoming 1.
29:08 I was thinking that too. We don't see Tara's dad, only her mom. So maybe Tara's dad had a problem with alcohol or another family member. Or maybe she's just very concerned because Darcy seems very determined to get drunk.
I did not read Tara's disappointment as being directed at the alcohol specifically, so much as the loud boisterous party in general. What I took away from this sequence is the contrast between Nick and Charlie's quiet "recharging" moment and the fact that all Tara wants is a quiet honest moment like that with Darcy.. but Darcy's not ready..
I like your username/handle! Edit: Also, that's a good point even though I thought Tara didn't like the alcohol consumption, but maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part.
@@snoopy_J I'm super enjoying the show so I haven't bought/read any of the graphic novels yet. It's entirely possible that Tara does have reasons to avoid alcohol and I'm just not aware of them yet (given what we know about Darcy's home life by the end of this season it's not out of the realm of possibility that Darcy does some self medicating to cope, but storyline wise that's not something that Tara would be privy to yet) 🤷 I grew up in a household that didn't drink and I'm not personally a fan myself but it just wasn't what stood out to me in this instance
The thing about some people thinking it is unrealistic that Nick and Charlie don’t want to have sex is crazy to me because not every one is ready or wants to. Also, they just came back from a party that had more of less stress. They got put in an uncomfortable situation. First Ben came to the party Second Charlie gets dared to kiss someone especially because of the Hickey rumor (side note I think my phone auto makes Hickey upper case cause that is my mom’s maiden name) and THEN gets dared to kiss Ben. Which with what happens in season one and the assault is not good for Charlie Third there is this stress between Nick and Charlie because Nick wants to come out but can’t do it THEN people ask him about the Hickey. And Nick comes out So when they get back to the room they are talking about the roller coster of what just happened in like 10 minutes (could be more or less I dont know). So for people to think JUST because they have a room to themselves mess they will have sex please stop or something. And then they literally say they are not ready. Thank you if your read this
I think because Joe & Kit have aged into their late teens, it's easy to forget Charlie is still 15 in this season. Obviously some people are sexually active at that age, but the vast majority aren't
I think Tara was most likely just disappointed because she wanted Darcy to be honest about her feelings and stop turning everything into a joke. Instead Darcy's throwing a big party and getting drunk with a bunch of kids they barely know, pretty much the opposite of the emotional vulnerability Tara's been wanting from her. I think Harry spent a long time in season 1 and the first half of season 2 deluding himself into thinking Charlie was just a weird gay blip in Nick's life (whatever the actual nature of their relationship was), and obviously Nick would always come back to Harry and his lot. It feels like by season 2 ep 5 Harry has realized Nick truly does not want to be friends with him anymore (he's not just "in a mood"), and now he's losing social capital. Harry's also inadvertently burnt bridges with Tara, who we get the impression is pretty popular (or at least is someone Harry has historically hyped up) and all the other kids at her party, which is clearly the place to be on their last night in Paris. Definitely a self-serving "apology," and also notable imo that Harry shows no interest in making amends with Tao, and in season 1 Harry didn't even seem to *remember* bullying Elle (and/or never bothered learning her name). I think it's definitely about saving face and maybe salvaging his relationship with Nick (good luck with that) more than anything else. I liked Charlie's succinct "no." I agree the Ben speech is more important, and I also don't think Harry was worth Charlie's effort lol. Comic fans always theorized that James had a secret crush on Charlie. I like that we sort of got confirmation of that in this episode. It is a truth universally acknowledged that no queer boy at Truham can resist Charlie Spring's charms! But Kid 1 is a MENACE. Then acting all chill like they didn't just emotionally terrorize Charlie for shits and giggles?? I really appreciate everything you said about the scene where Nick and Charlie decide they're not ready for sex yet. The backlash has been so irritating. Mocking the idea of teenagers not feeling immediately ready for sex, or the idea that Nick and Charlie would be so conscientious about consent, is the opposite of sex positive. The way Charlie pays such close attention to Nick's nonverbal cues and clocks his hesitance is so consistent with the way Charlie's treated Nick throughout their relationship when it comes to kissing and other boundaries. Obviously that care and mindfulness goes both ways, and I imagine Charlie's history with Ben and what Nick knows of that influences their behavior, on top of them being very kind and attentive with each other generally of course. I won't be able to watch the Mr. Farouk/Mr. Ajayi scene without thinking about the stench of Darcy's vomit in the air now, thanks for that. :/ I had not noticed the thumb stroking the phone parallel!!
47:00 I picked up on that too and they were hanging around Harry and the rugby lads on the eiffel tower so when I saw other reactors using she/her pronouns i had a john cena moment lol. And with heartstopper's message of not assuming someones sexuality based on looks I reckon that translates over to gender aswell.
Thanks again Thom for such a good video and I love all the comments it attracts. I think a lot of what I would say has been covered in other comments but a couple of things I would add. 1. When Mr Farouk calls them out when they're about to smooch in the corridor I think he is well aware of Nick and Charlie's relationship and has a soft spot , I think, particularly for Charlie. He, like everyone in the school, knows Charlie is gay, and I think that makes him protective which is why he gives unusual leeway in the study hall and is so kind when Charlie faints. ( also later in the comics he asks Charlie to think about the head boy position). 2. I wonder whether Ben pressured Charlie into some sort of sexual acts when they were together and that maybe a subtext in what Charlie says to him later on and therefore he is VERY alive to consent around sex in the talk he has with Nick. Nick has only just come into recognising he has feelings for Charlie relatively recently so sex is a big step and I wasn't in the least surprised that he is wary of that next step. (But also in the comics they are exploring that side of things and maybe would have done sooner if Charlie's mental health hadn't taken the turn it does). So I have no truck with those that think it is unrealistic.
I got the impression from the way Ben and Charlie acted when they were alone that they hadn’t proceeded beyond kissing, but I could definitely be wrong about that. We do know that they never met up outside of school (based on Charlie suggesting it during the “we’re not boyfriends” conversation and Ben reacting badly to the very idea of it), and while it’s possible that things could have strayed in a more intimate direction touch-wise even if they never progressed to sex, I don’t really get that vibe. It feels more like stolen kisses between classes, though again, that’s just my impression. Regardless, Ben definitely did not ask for Charlie’s consent when it came to what they DID do together, and I’m sure that’s a big part of why Charlie is so conscious of making sure he has Nick’s full consent with anything they do.
@@thom_is_trans Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. You are absolutely right that there is no real evidence for what I am saying here. It is a thought I had, particularly on my second viewing, that Charlie's ' someone taking whatever he wants from me whenever he wants' and the general vehemence of Charlie's speech could mean that Ben was perhaps even more pushy than I myself first thought. It could also be projection as I certainly at 14 had an older boy getting me to do things for their own pleasure that I went along with, ( nothing too much but very selfish), that I think led me to have my suspicion.
Yeah, I think Harry had figured things out by the Eiffel Tower scene, and then him asking to speak to "Nick and Charlie" as a unit to apologize for his homophobia definitely suggests to me that he has figured it out by then that Nick and Charlie are together.
Idk if it’s just me looking too into it but I noticed that Isaac happens to wear clothes that are the colors of the aroace flag multiple times throughout this season :)
Great video Thom, I like the detail. So here'smy dissertation... . I thought Nick's Dad's "I miss that boy" about David as vacuous as his interactions with Nick. But I think you are right that David longs for his father. He would have been older when his parents split up, perhaps more attached. Maybe his acting out is desparately trying to prove that he's Dad's boy. I think Darcy wants to give Tara a fabulous birthday but is using the party and the alcohol to hide from her And Tara is worried because it all takes Darcy away from her . Like Isaac I loved books. Like Isaac I used them as a barrier to make me defended and invisible. I think Harry might have started to think a lot of 'cool' people thin homophobia is uncool. I thought he said 'Nick and Charlie' at random because he saw them as they came in from the balcony. Not sure he is smart enough to twig they are a couple. I think Ben's almost jealous when Charlie shuts the door on Harry, because he doesn't have that kind of confidence or courage. But when dare to kiss he doubles down on denying knowing Charlie - he's as scared of being 'caught ' as ever. I absolutely LOVE the emphasis on consent, respect, communication - both in the scene where Nick is necking Charlie and the bedroom scene. And I think as you said showcasing that you don't need to feel you have to have sex if your not ready, including for fellas. Is soimportant and very rare. I did think Charlie promising he would pass on ever having sex if Nick didn't want to a bit extreme ... but he's 15, in love, and habitually puts others first. Not implausible. Most older teen shows showcase teens being absurdly, obsessively promiscuous. Not the experience I had - or any of my friends- or fro what I hear - my kids and their friends. Could this series be any better constructed or any better acted. OMG it is so damn good!
Has anyone mentioned the blue and yellow lighting in the hallway when Nick takes Charlie on his back, yet? A little throwback to their colours in season 1 :)
Please take as long as you need to post these. You do such a good job and it's always worth the wait. My thoughts. I always assumed that Tara isn't feeling her surprise party that much bc she was hoping it would be more intimate and it's so loud and feels like more of a distraction for Darcy. I feel like without meaning to, Darcy is STILL using the party to hide her feelings and distract from talking about the scary stuff. And yeah, the fact that Tara is alone a lot at her own bday party is sad and would make me sad if I was in her shoes. I think that the song lyrics about Nick and Charlie being each others medicine still ring true throughout Charlies mental health issues. Yes, Charlie needs professional help and more help than Nick alone can offer, but the strong foundation that him and Nick built helps him to feel strong enough to take those steps. I love seeing how happy Tao and Elle are together. ^^
I have a few head canons I would like to share about Imogen. One. She could be Demisexual because if you look at it she mentioned that her and Ben have been friends for a long time and then she started to fancy him. And Nick they were friends for a while and only then she fancied him and asked him out. (I am also including Sahar in this because I believe they will be together) and her and Sahar were best friends. Two. (This ties in with the demisexual thing) Imogen use to have a lot more girl best friends but when they got close she started to catch feelings but she did not know what these feelings really were so she would shut the friend out and also get a boyfriend so she would not have to think about these feelings. Also she got more guy friends so she would not experience these feeling. This is assuming she is a lesbian. Which I think she will turn out to be one. Please give me your thoughts and comments about this because I feel like I am the only one thinking this.
I love the song at the start but whenever it randomly pops into my mind, it keeps going "dans le métro, je pense à toi" :D Because they were just exiting the métro and I could imagine that line being directed from Nick to Charlie but also to his dad in that moment. But I just googled the lyrics and will now try to remember the right version for when it gets stuck in my head again. :D Great video and tons of invaluable insights as always and, as Kim already explained, thank you so much for not assuming Kid 1's gender and for explaining the why and how so clearly. Take your time on the videos 💜
Thank you so so so so much for this. You don’t understand how this brought me so much joy today. I tried to make a bad day good even the night before! Yet it was still kinda bad. You don’t have to read this I just need someone to rant. I won’t go into much detail because like you probably don’t want to hear it but I had a monster energy drink with me and I go to a class before school starts and we car pool to get me and other kids in my school doing the same thing to school and I was drinking the monster and I was acting normal. My friend who is in a class with the guy who’s car we were in so she told me about this. He was saying how I was “ bouncing off the walls and talking really fast” but one I talk fast every day and two I was just bouncing my leg really fast like I do ALL THE TIME. Then the teacher was like yea your mind just tricks you to do that when you have caffeine and she is probably just faking. This hit me hard because it took me some time to just me my self around other people so thank you again (there was more but that was the biggest thing)
Awww, here's a big Nick Nelson hug for you from across the miles! I've been adult for decades, and it still hurts sometimes when people make me feel other or less than when I'm being my unguarded, genuine self. It stings at first, but eventually the effect of the judgment and the careless comments fade, and the people you can surround yourself with know you and appreciate you with all of your quirks, or as Tara says to Darcy, because of them! I hope tomorrow is better, and I hope your friend chooses to share something that makes you feel good next time you see her.
Some notes about the Truth or Dare game 1) Kid 1 was next to Harry and the Entourage on the Eiffel Tower when Nick got asked about the hickey and responded, "Why, you jealous?" I'm low-key surprised that the Pot-Stirrer didn't tell Charlie to kiss Nick rather than James, because it would have been much juicier to see everyone's minds explode over that. It seems like asking two known gay guys to kiss is less tantalizing than to have the "Rugby King" lay a smooch on his close friend in front of everyone for what may or may not have been the first time. IDK, just seems like the more titillating dare, IMHO. 2) Tao is so well-known as Charlie's friend and staunch defender that nobody is ribbing him about the possibility of having given Charlie a hickey, and everyone stares in shock and incredulity as Tao gives Charlie a humorous peck for the sake of the game. Like, Charlie was in Tao's presence constantly for the entire term and the entire trip, and no one believes it could have been him. I think that's noteworthy. 3) As Ben storms out of the room after freaking out at being told to kiss Charlie for the sake of the game, he kicks Nick on the way out. I'm not saying that he did it out of spite, but he certainly doesn't try to move his legs out of the way of Nick's body as he's making a beeline for the door,
I wouldn't trust these kids to be perceptive enough to notice Tao following Elle around like a puppy dog, but I do wonder whether his grand date proposal is something people on the trip knew about. It happened outside right after the Paris meeting and was very dramatic!
13:51 I’ve seen a theory on this scene that nicks dad may have caught on that Charlie is something more to nick - notice he talks about having a girlfriend in French but says everything else in English so Charlie can hear
33:24 I've wondered if Isaac will be aroace or just ace. With one of S1's iconic lines from Isaac is "I want to believe in romance!" I've wondered if he'll still like someone but that's as far as it goes. S2 definitely leads you to believe that Isaac will be aroace, but I keep thinking about that line from S1.
For an apparently throwaway line, it’s very interesting that Isaac doesn’t say he _does_ believe in romance - just that he _wants_ to. Having an a aroace person in my life has really opened up my awareness of how pervasive the compulsory allo narrative is, and how destabilising and upsetting and plain damaging that can be. Of course Alice is all over it in the subtlest and gentlest way.
Watching this and reading everyone's insightful comments makes me so happy. A few things: I feel SO bad for James. He seems like such a sweet and genuinely good person. I am curious what he meant at the ice cream vendor about bring around other gay people. Obviously Tara and Darcy are out but I'm not sure if he knows about Nick and Charlie at that point. He's obviously picked up on nonstraight vibes from Isaac, but it's never spelled out what his sexuality is, prior to him figuring out he's Ace. In season one Tau describes himself as Charlie's token straight friend, so does that mean Isaac has told them he's not straight? Also re: James, who are his friends? They are mentioned (wanting to go to McDonald's and teasing him about the hickey) but i dont remember seeing him with anyone on the coach, bonfire party, etc. At Tara's party who were all those random couples making out? I don't remember seeing any of them before. The vomit sheets - I also wondered why they were still on the bed. And multiple reactors have wondered why Darcy was brought to the teacher's room instead of just the bathroom, which definitely makes more sense. But without the vomit sheets i doubt the teachers would have had the nerve to hook up, and of course all that is from the comics. The first time watching this episode i was disappointed about the lack of response from Charlie to Harry's apology. But as soon as I saw Ben's apology scene in the next episode it made complete sense and was definitely more important. On the coach on the way home with the couples together, we get a happy Elle and Tau, a relaxed Nick and Charlie (until Char sees the Instagram comment) but poor Darcy looks so uncomfortable. Obviously she is still struggling with Tara not knowing the truth about her homelife. I guess that's more than a few things...
The Swimming Pool Library is an excellent novel by the award winning gay writer Alan Hollinghurst. It may be rather too explicit for a 15 year old, though.
I love this episode!! I didn't like Nick's dad at all! Nick deserves a dad that cares about him. Nick's emotions is showing through but his dad is not noticing it at all. I love that Charlie is right there by him for the moral support. Nick needs support because his dad doesn't really cares about him or even shows. Charlie is that support system for him like he is with Nick in the first season. I love how Nick and Charlie can communicate telepathically without words. I saw somewhere, I think it was Facebook that someone posted that if you look in the background on season 2 episode 6, Heartstopper comics are in that book store where Issac is shopping for books. And in the hotel, on the bed side, is a croissant plushie I believe which brings back to the moment where Charlie passed out. I think Tara has some alcoholic issues within her family that brought up some issues with alcohol. I have a feeling that Jane is going to be a problem next season but I might be wrong. I always thought James and Issac will be a cute couple in my opinion. I love Nick's eyes on Charlie. His emotions is shown through his eyes. I have noticed that his emotions are shown through physical touch in the first season while his emotions are showing through his eyes. I love Charlie's growth in being confident of sticking up for himself without Nick being there by his side. I love how Nick is showing being proud of Charlie in this episode. I love the scene where they are play fighting and ending where Charlie is on Nick's lap. That's my favorite scene! I also love how they both always ask "why are we like this?" That is their question all the way through the comics and I love how they put it in the show. Another thing that I love about Nick and Charlie is how comfortable they are with each other. Thats my favorite Narlie moment of all time. Narlie = love. I can't wait for episode eight because I want to see your reaction Nick's moment in the episode. This is so worth the wait.. take your time... we'll be waiting patiently for the next video. You are awesome!! I love the video! Great job on the video. Can't wait for the next video.
I have seen what I feel are some overreactions about the "not ready to have sex" conversation in this episode. You are right that it's perfectly normal and also, great behaviour to model. Charlie is only 15 years old here. I think an aspect of the show that slightly obscures the issue is that the actors, while young, are not THAT young. If you look around at some real 15-year-olds, it's a bit easier to imagine a stunningly mature version of that teenager saying yeah, I'm gonna work up to that but it will take some time. The other point to be made is that "sex" is never quite defined here. They say that one day they would like to do "that," but especially for the queer community, it's not just one thing that maps onto that word. The two boys still find the word hard to say, so it's absolutely true that they haven't explored its complexities yet. So we can all clearly see that they are not ready. But we know they'll be great at that conversation when they do have it!
I wish you so much luck with the last two episodes cause I can already forsee you having to deal with at least two hours on both of them if not close to 3 on the finale XD Also great timing as I have been rewatching the entire series today and got to this episode just a bit ago SO fresh reactions and opinions on at least the first 15 minutes XD It's really dope they got a famous French actor to be Nick's Dad, only a famous person can have the privledge of being Olivia Coleman's ex-husband :p And I didn't notice he waves the same as Nick XD Just imagine baby Nick seeing his Dad wave to his collegues and/or him at his childhood rugby games waving to him and then just copying him. I feel like they never get the coffees cause they make it seem like they instantly walk back to the coach once Stefan leaves. Poor Coffees. "You never visit anymore!" Proceeds to explain how he hasn't invited Nick because there was work done on his house. Also it really makes me wonder how long it's been since NIck visited cause Nick still hasn't met his father's current Partner, so you'd think it's been a few years if they are living together at this moment and he seems very non-commital on ever introducing Nick to her. Like you said it does feel like he's separating these aspects of his life and is doing a horrible job of finding a balance. It hits deep having that connection that Nick does with his Dad with some family members. Some people i keep at arms length for a reason while others the door is open but they never feel like taking it. I was actually taken off guard years ago when I very much expected my one sister to accept very surface level responses and she ended up asking me to talk further and elaborate. While I do understand from the point of view of someone who isn't very forthcoming about my life, if you really care then you'll try and learn about someone just by asking about information one what little they do share. I do think that is a wild assumption that Stefan would do that XD While that is very funny I do think it's just coincidental with how often Stefan seems preoccupied. Like being too busy to answer Nick right after calling him, not texting for days, needing to get back to London after dinner, etc etc. (I am very down to talk about things next time cause man do I have opinions on David and their father XD) I won't get into details cause reasons, but my Dad had a very similar opinion of dating with me. Asking if I was interested in anyone and then pushing me to get out there and find a Girlfriend whenever I could. It kind of put me off just like it does Nick to ever come out to him as Bi that eventually i never did. It def is a certain relative personality with people you rarely see that is turned to 11 when it's a parent cause there's more of a sense of interest and pressure. We love Charlie: Master of Deflection. And I honestly love that Nick in that moment just goes through his deflection and then refutes what Charlie says. Like they had their moment after his Dad left to talk about how Nick felt so he just ignores it, brings it back to the issue of how Charlie is doing to which Charlie tries to use humor since the last tactic didn't work, and then Nick just blasts Charlie's walls down by telling Charlie that his happiness matters to him. You are definitely right in that I think Charlie is very inexperienced in having people confront his deflections ONTOP of the fact that Nick flat out tells him that his feelings matter. The only other person you really see do that is Tori when he's upset in Season 1 and she directly tells him that Charlie has not ruined her life and then offers pizza. Charlie never really deals with people that will put him before themselves, even his dad who definitely has been there for him in his bad moments does not actively assist Charlie so he is easy to be deflected. Tori and Nick are really the only people who can look Charlie in the eye and remind him that no matter what the voice in his head says, "Charlie is important" and Charlie deserves to be heard out. Which obviously does help a lot with his self-confidence and self-worth to have people tell him this and it's great to see how strong their relationships with each other are that they can have these personal moments and be stronger together. Mr. Farouk's story is so important to us older viewers. There are so many people who don't really begin to piece things together until their later 20s. Like I knew for years since my teenage years I was Bi but I'm almost 30 now and it has only been in the past few years that I have been so confident in my identity that I began to stop questioning myself and have opened myself to actually even dating guys. Now I just need to figure out how to deal with unhealthy crushes on people and I'll be a fully functioning adult XD SO great Mr Ajayi is there to at least open Mr Farouk to the idea that he can put himself out there regardless of whether they ended up together or not. I sympathize so much with your Recharging dialogue. I get so exhausted by people that I just wanna nap, especially after birthday parties with family. But when i visited friends last year I never had any of thing when we hung out, there was no moment of "I need to spend like 1 hour away from you people so I don't mentally vanish" it constantly felt like I was on a charge and all our levels balanced out so we just had fun relaxing all day. Finding people you can just 'exist' with is such an important thing and a necceccity in dating as Nick and Charlie prove. They both know each other's limits and can take 5 minutes to recharge and kiss before dealing with something. And then they just go off alone at the party anyway and exist in bliss for a few minutes before going back. It's very wholesome and goals and I need it in my life. I also felt like Tara's negative reaction to the Vodka is due to the fact it meant that Darcy would be incapable of having a serious time with her if she wanted. Like you said, in the comics it was more of a spoken about thing and Tara even happily participated a bit. But with them adding in more of Darcy's strife and their relationship struggles it makes sense that Tara would be less than pleased that yet again Darcy found a way to not hold herself responsible if Tara wanted to talk to her at some point. Which thankfully works out anyway when Darcy word vomits after physically vomitting lol I am curious how much of the later drinking scenes in the comic will be added like when they drink at Charlie's house and Nick takes Charlie to bed cause Charlie is drunk to which Charlie claims "I am not drunk." Casual and comfortable experimenting it such a nice thing to show cause it happens IRL and showing these kids experimenting but also being open enough to seek out an adult when they are worried is a good message to spread. Teach teens and even adults that it's ok to try things when you do it safely and with assistance and that it's ok to reach out if you need help or just a more experienced hand. And I love the mirroring of James/Issac's confession against Nick/Charlie. I'm so excited to get more of Issac and James' relationship next season cause I would really love from them to develop as good book friends or even delving into Issac finding a way to have a deep connection with James without it being romantic or physical. (I must admit I'm pretty devoid on Ace/Aro knowledge so I don't really know the likliness of this being a plotline. But I still stand I would love to see Issac and James at least be good friends through his journey) I wish to hug Issac everytime he runs back into the room and starts tearing up. Which honestly I do hope he talks a bit more to the group about his journey cause no one really addresses it onscreen even later on when Issac gets rightfully upset. (Also on an unrelated note, I want to know what it will take to have Kit and Joe do a reading of both their character's dialogues to Harry that got removed from the comics. Cause MAN i would so love to hear it lol even if i do agree that the next episode with Ben is very important and impactful and possibly too much ontop of Ben's moment) The hotel room after the party is so intimate in very many ways. Proper communication and consent is so sexy. For one it's so nice to see them be playful with each other and how seamless it is that they can be playful and then romantic. It's defintely important to show that it's ok to not be ready and to voice that to your partners so you can both be ready if that time ever comes or if it never does. (I think i mentioned this before but I do love that Nick is the first one to bring it up cause to me that means he does want to eventually. Nick loves Charlie and probably does assume that eventually they'll get there, but feels comfortable enough to tell Charlie he isn't ready which is very understandable for someone who just discovered he loves a boy within the past year. Idk to me it just means a lot that the gay one isnt the one to automatically jump to that and that even despite all the complicated feelings Nick may have that he does love Charlie that much to one day hope for it and communicate with Charlie. Idk maybe im just weird and reading into it too much and my own weird thought process lol) Like you said, Be positive about it while also respecting people's boundaries and choices. And we adore Charlie's love for Nick that whatever boundaries Nick may have that CHarlie is there regardless to stand by Nick. And agreed best "Why are we like this" moment. And everything you said about Charlie and Nick being alone together. Just pure happiness of being themselves and love the deeper meaning of how they sleep together cause it makes a lot of sense. I love these boys so much ;-; Also hate them cause i want this lol
Nice intro, I like it 😊 the episode reminds me when I was meet my Dad in France and told him I'm gay, he stand up and leave 😢 but Nick's Dad is so boring. Nick, he does all the talking
OK, I really want to know what happened when the teachers went back to the room with their snacks. How awkward was that evening and was this Mr. Farouk coming out to Mr. Ajayi or did he know/suspect prior to this? Ben got his butt handed to him I would think that it would be a pity invite? Thank you for pointing out the similarities of the Isaac/James kiss scene to Nick/Charlie kiss scene. So was Nick the "boyfriend" that caused the distance between Sahar and Imogen or was Nick a rebound? Isaac needs to read Kid One worse than he read Harry.
Sahar said Imogen got a boyfriend "last year" and stopped texting her. She asked Nick out on a date in April of this year (less than 3 months prior), so it would have been someone different.
Love your commentary as always. I always have so many thoughts , i never know where to start lol 1 I liked that Stephane put some money on the table at least, but yeah, the rest of this encounter and the next are tragic. (I do appreciate that he is a rotten parent without being homophobic though, it feels a breath of fresh air in a way. No matter how much my heart aches for Nick, and to some extent, even David.) 2 I feel Ben was there cuz nobody really knows the extent of his douchebaggery, and he went straight back to I don't know Charlie, after the publicity Imogene created. 3 I agree that Harry figured out there was something between Nick and Charlie, the way he asked for both of them. I think a lot more people knew without being told 1 on 1. Sahar (you fell onto your bf, so it's all good), James (nice to hang out with other gay people), some people in the spin the bottle circle (i knew it). 4 if you play truth or dare, chances are you will have to kiss someone, so maybe Nick and Charlie shouldn't have played lol 5 I couldn't agree more with the sex talk, I.e. them agreeing that they are not ready yet. Wtf is happening in the world when we must defend 15-year-olds not being ready? Have we completely lost any semblance of common sense? Outrageous. People really need to stop watching TV and start looking into the real world. 😒 can you tell this really upsets me? 😡 grrr Anyhoo, I also agree that all the eps are getting better and better. I feel almost inclined to think that s3 will not only be heartache.... fingers crossed they'll find this amazing balance and all the lovely moments from this season again next year.
lol. While asking for the call wouldn't surprise me, I think he's more negligent than outright hostile towards his son. I think I heard the 'Where's Waldo' was Tobie's idea, but not sure. The scene between Isaac and James is so, so sad. Ugh! You feel terrible for them both. James rejected, thinking it's his fault. Isaac wanting to like James, wanting it to work, it just doesn't. Then thinking there's something wrong with him because he doesn't feel anything back. Ugh! LOL. Let's try not to think about the other bed, ok? Another great video! It is absolutely worth the wait. I know it's tough on you but I love the long, in depth analysis.
Nicks fathers behaviour reminds me of people who remarry and their new spouse doesn’t want their partners old life to have anything to do with their new life. The fathers new wife is probably the reason Nick and David don’t get to see their father, their father doesn’t have the balls to stand up to her and say my kids are part of the package if you want to be with me.
I thought that at first, too, but it seems like if it was coming mostly from the new partner, that the dad would at least make the most of the moments he gets alone with Nick. He's awkward and distant and fumblingly detached even when they're alone in the hallway in Ep 7. It's true, the new partner's feelings might have augmented that initial distance, but by this time, Stephane no longer feels the connection that he might have felt once, if ever.
I have many disparate thoughts, so I am going to break them up into short stories instead of posting an essay. One pairing I am disappointed we don't get is a scene with Elle and Mr. Ajayi. It seems like he would be an important person in her life, given that we know the Art Room is her Safe Space (S2E7), and given that she says she spent every lunch period in there for months working on a project (from her conversation with Tao in S1E8), and given that Alice confirms that, canonically, Elle met Charlie in the art room during their lunches. I was reminded of that disappointment in this episode because here we see both Elle and Mr. Ajayi together in the same frame for the only time in the teachers' hotel room while Darcy is having her crisis, and that is the closest we ever get to a reunion. After she has been gone for a whole term and he wasn't used to seeing her every day anymore, I wonder how often Mr. Ajayi speculated about how she was doing at Higgs and how he felt about finally seeing her again on this trip. I like to imagine in my head that there was a warm reunion with a heartfelt exchange, and we just didn't see it because there was simply NO time to squeeze in that scene. **Full disclosure, someone else on a different reaction site's comments section brought this up first, and I just haven't been able to stop thinking about it since.
Oh, now I'm sad about this as well. You're right, it must have happened off screen, otherwise it would be even sadder. :( Yay for short stories, the new fashion. :)
@elisabethbauman6190 I couldn't find a Harry themed comment of yours under this video, so I'll ask my question randomly under this one: Do you have an opinion on why Harry (and maybe especially his underling that he brings with him to the party's door) are so unbearably smug and over-the-top visibly insincere while apologizing? I don't understand it. I re-read your "Understanding Harry" essays part 1 and 2, but I know you had to cut a lot of the original text, so maybe there's something more in your notes that will help me understand. So far I am thinking it could either be something his character would genuinely choose to do for some reason, OR (and this is what I'm leaning towards) the directing for that scene told them to be so exaggeratedly visibly dishonest that all viewers would unquestioningly and immediately hate them and celebrate Charlie's "No" without the explanation from the comics and without paying much attention. I have admitted before that I actually felt bad for Harry in the comics and I think it was because the comics didn't paint a picture/movie in my head that had the extreme dismissiveness, tone, lighting etc. which the show added to Harry's scene and acting.
@@snoopy_J You make an excellent point, and I really think it comes down to the directing. I, too, felt bad for Harry when I read the scene in the comics. However, when Thom was going through his review of the comics, he pointed out a few subtleties that I had missed that showed the apology scene was supposed to be self-serving and not entirely sincere. In order to get that message across in the show, the acting had to telegraph insincerity. Beyond that, I think the story was supposed to hold Harry up as the quintessential bully who didn’t deserve forgiveness because he didn’t earn it. Harry had more complexity in the show, but he was still the bully archetype, and his character didn’t have an arc that led him to redemption. The show’s message was crafted for bullying victims, so Harry had to stay unworthy to drive that home. Here’s why I think the apology was not worth considering as genuine: 1) Timing: He tried to come into the party, but it wasn’t until Tara called him out as homophobic did he realize he had to demonstrate that he had turned a new leaf. I’m sure he thought that Nick and Charlie had noticed he stood up for them at the Eiffel Tower, and that, combined with his words, would be enough to show he was changed. He hoped that would be sufficient to remove the lingering label of homophobe and let him access the party. HOWEVER, if he had been genuinely sincere, he would have approached them privately at a time when there wasn’t a big audience and a payoff at the end and just said some words that spoke to his change of heart. 2) Lack of specificity: Harry has a much bigger role in the show and a lot more interactions with Charlie and Tao. In the comics, Harry apologized for his behavior at the cinema, and that was kind of vague, but not as vague as the show apology. He said in the show that he had “said some pretty homophobic stuff in the past” and he feels like he knows better now and will never do it again. He doesn’t acknowledge how his words hurt people or take responsibility for their consequences. It doesn’t seem like he genuinely understands the implications of having said homophobic things in the first place, and so promising not to say them is a performance rather than an actual commitment. Also, He doesn’t acknowledge the times he threw stuff at Charlie and Tao or any of the unkind stuff he said/did at rugby. He didn’t apologize for making Charlie the object of vocal speculation just the previous day to make him uncomfortable, which wasn’t actually specifically homophobic. He’s got in his mind that apologizing for saying homophobic things is what is needed here because that’s the issue that Tara raised. It doesn’t touch on any of his other bullying tactics and doesn’t do anything to make anyone think he’s genuinely planning to stop being a bully. 3) Delivery: As I mentioned, Harry delivers his apology to Nick and barely looks at Charlie. He feels like in order to be admitted to the party, he has to convince Tara he’s not a homophobe, and to do that, he has to get forgiveness from someone Tara cares about. He knows that Tara and Nick have a special connection, and since he and Nick also have a special connection, he thinks he can persuade Nick into granting the needed forgiveness. He doesn’t give Charlie much thought, as he doesn’t see him as that influential. I don’t want to understate Harry’s desire for genuine reconciliation with Nick in this moment as well, but the timing has kind of forced his hand. If Harry had more time and the opportunity to approach Nick privately, he might have been able to navigate a dialogue that touched on more meaningful aspects of an apology, but in front of these people without much time to think things through, he didn’t have that many components to put together to make an apology substantive. I am confident that Nick still wouldn’t have forgiven him completely, but that dialogue could have given Harry some feedback that led to real behavior change and self-reflection. Since this apology went so badly, Harry doesn’t see hope in putting together a different one for later, which is kind of sad, because I would have been here for communication guru Nick giving some choice words that actually got through to Harry and gave him some direction on how to keep being popular using kindness instead of meanness. 4) Lack of understanding: Harry doesn’t really understand exactly what he did wrong. I already touched on this, but it’s worth reiterating. Harry needs someone to sit him down and talk him through all of his bad behavior and why it sucks, not just “saying homophobic stuff.” He needs more drilling about basic human empathy and leading by example. He doesn’t even understand the grief he caused enough to articulate a meaningful apology, so nobody has faith that it will lead to lasting behavior change. In fact, if he was admitted to the party, it would just be a matter of time before he said something non-homophobic that upset someone and made them want to leave his presence. He’s just doesn’t get it, and that shows in his posture and tone of voice. So yeah, I think the choice of the creative team here to show Harry providing an unsatisfying apology was for the purpose of modeling to victims of bullying an appropriate response and validating to them that they don’t owe anything to people who hurt them. The over-the-top insincerity was supposed to make it more black and white that rejecting the apology was ok and to provide catharsis to people who saw their own bullies in Harry. From the tons of back and forth I have read about people’s reactions to the Ben apology, I can see the utility of having kept the Harry apology insincere and easy to dismiss. I hope I addressed what you wanted me to address. I am certainly open to your thoughts on the matter. Do you think the scene would have been better if it had been done differently? What changes would you have made and why?
@@elisabethbauman6190 Thank you for explaining all that! I relate to the part where Harry "just doesn't get it" and needs a communication guru to walk him through the basics! This was very helpful and answered all my questions. 💜
Regarding Harry -- at this point in the story, for me, it's definitely more about Harry seeing his social stock drop as Sai, Christian and Otis (and maybe others) drift away from him and toward Nick & Charlie. Harry was able to coast on the lavish parties he threw, but now that isn't enough anymore to hold oln to his audience. He hasn't quite figured out yet that he needs to, y'know, become a slightly better person -- that seems to happen later, the way he's portrayed in the Nick & Charlie novella. For now, Harry is grasping, trying to do things that he thinks will "work" in bringing the lads back under his thrall. Much like Ben will attempt... never mind, spoilers, as River Song says... 😉
Just rewatching HS (you know, as we do) and I'm pretty sure Kid 1 is wearing a tux and dancing with a girl (just as we walk into the gym for our first look at prom, kinda front and center.) I wonder if having this character is supposed to help us open a conversation about the toxicity we sometimes see within the queer community itself.
As for Isaac and James scene in the hallway....the color in this hall is not that blue/grey lighting, so it is meant to be hopeful, but not color saturated...the mirroring of Nick and Charlie's kissing scene is awkward and rushed, without the cautious and choreographed banter and reactions...Charlie was scared when he asked his questions leading up to the kiss...Isaac was desperate to get to what he needed to answer his questions of why he doesn't feel what other's do romantically.
hi i love your reaction on this episode i dont realy like nick dad its look that he doesnt care for him and nick try so hard but it feel like his dad only care for him self and in truth and dare to me i think nick was force to came out because u can see on his face that he feel so up seting that he letting char down but we all know he hasnt and char do understand and he will be there for nick and he will be beside him all the step of the way and i love everything in this episode but iam not sure if iam right about nick was force to came out and and i love how there friends stand up for them nick and char got a very strong support from there friends it nice to see that and i love the teaches they are so cuite together and i cant waite to see more of them and all cast what they going to do next and after truth and dare i love the play saide of nick and char and how they are in bed talking and holding each other its so beautiful to watch just love it
It breaks my heart to see how Stephane treats Nick. He desperately wants any love and attention from his father and is devastated when he gets nothing. And the end, when daddy has to run is just a slap in the face. What a cold, cruel father. I'm an older guy but loved this. The story, the implementation, the acting was so superb. It shows, since great actors like Olivia Coleman and the French actor who plays Nick's dad agee to act in it. I'm sure that they made next nothing for their roles. Taylor Swift agreed to let them use one of her songs for free. People know quality and the impact this show has on so many people. It is a true labor of love. PS. Your constant interruptions with commentary every 5 to 10 seconds feels extermely overdone.
One thing I love that no one has commented on - when the girls and boys meet up to explore the hotel together and the couples pair off, Nick and Charlie go find an alcove where they can finally be intimate in private. Although their first inclination is to kiss, it quickly switches to a check-in. In that moment, they are most concerned with connecting emotionally, and only once that intimacy is established are they ready to go back to the physical intimacy. I think represents an inflection point in their relationship arc. In the beginning, they couldn't keep their hands and lips off each other because "kissing is so much fun" and exploring the physical side of intimacy is really excited with a new partner. As deeper stuff comes to the surface, the urge to connect emotionally becomes more important. From then on, physical intimacy becomes an extension of that emotional intimacy. We see this in Nick's recharging scene, in time they spend in bed together after Nick's coming out, in the ways they touch each other to comfort each other through the ups and downs of Ep 7, and throughout every moment of Ep 8. Being open, vulnerable, present, and supportive are all wrapped up in the ways they touch each other and celebrate their deepening connection.
I’m enjoying your essays and the insights you bring to the discussion 💜
What a great observation. Thank you
I really like that it's James that asks about keeping it a secret. This is something subtle that Alice does a really good job of, of centring queer characters in the queer narratives even in tiny ways like this.
Because ultimately, the fact that it's James rather than one of the core members of Nick and Charlie's friend group who says this does highlight the fact that James shares this important link to those characters too. It comes back to James talking about how nice it is to hang out with other gay people earlier in the season too.
(Though it does also bring up the question: was James outed? Is he speaking out of an abundance of caution because of past experience, or is he just speaking because he gets it in a more general sense?)
Excellent point!
Now that Tao is in a relationship and realizes he wants to spend time alone with Elle, he FINALLY recognizes that maybe Charlie wants that with Nick.
While I enjoy some “first time watching” reactions, I really love your approach. So thoughtful and informed. I really appreciate how you take the material seriously. Some of your interpretations and thoughts match mine exactly, but sometimes you give me food for thought!
One thing about this show that you call out is how beautiful the scenes without dialogue are. In this episode, just seeing Nick and Charlie together in the bed chatting and sleeping, with The Deep End playing, just chokes me up every single time. It’s so rare for a show or cast of characters to get this deep emotional reaction from me.
💘💔 ❤️🩹 😭😢🥹😊😍🥰🤩🤗🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈
Loved what you picked up on about Stéphane. The nearest he gets to sharing any emotion at all with Nick is “so good to see you in Paris” - pretty much everything else he says is readable in terms of whether Nick has sufficiently earned his approval. No wonder Charlie, who’s an expert at this game with Jane, is so alive to the impact it’s having on Nick - the “I want you to be there” champion of emotional openness. Thank you for picking up on the micro-expressions that rush across Nick’s face as he hears his dad finally admit to a feeling -”I miss that boy”, about his BROTHER - and then go straight for the implication that Nick’s a rather disappointing substitute who doesn’t have as many girlfriends as David. UGH, ugh, UGH. Thank goodness for Sarah Nelson …
I hate fathers like this who don't give a damn about their kids. Before I knew my niece would end up in divorce, she had a birthday party for her three kids, all born in February. I asked where Mike was. She gave me an excuse for him. What father would skip his kids' birthday party?
I think that the previous two days in Paris have really helped prepare Nick for coming out at the Truth or Dare session. He has held hands with Charlie on the train and in several spots around the city, taking courage from the openly gay couple in the Le Marais district. He has embraced Charlie around their mutual friends and taken lots and lots of pictures of the two of them together. He's had the opportunity to feel what it's like to be open and free with his affection, and given that Nick's love language is touch, that's got to be really meaningful to him. I think part of him understands that if he really wants that, he has to seize this moment to come out, or it will be ages before he can control the narrative again around so many people. If he lets it pass, then he'll either be forced to hide again (no sitting together on the coach for the ride back), or he'll have to address every single person's surprise when he slips up and shows affection for Charlie in public. Of course, I don't want to minimize how important it was to Nick to be able to deflect some of the unwanted attention from Charlie and help Charlie out in that moment of extreme discomfort, but his readiness to say what needed to be said came from getting that taste what it was like to be out and free.
56:40 Yep. There’s nothing wrong with them for not being ready for more intimacy beyond kissing. They’re 15 and 16 years old. They haven’t been going out that long and Nick is newly out. Makes sense that they’d want to take things slow.
I noticed that Charlie finally gets his side of the bed! While they have The Talk and work through the awkwardness of it all, Charlie has crawled over to the other side of the bed. Once that's resolved and they are ready to talk the whole night through, Charlie reclaims his rightful side (mirroring Ep 3, as mentioned). That means at some point Nick acknowledges this and swaps with him, which is probably a cute little tension-diffusing moment that I am sad we missed.
I think you said absolutely everything I would have said about this one! Let's overlook the fact that Mr Farouk will 100% have to report Darcy when he gets back to school. If he worked at Higgs I would generously assume that he had some insight into her home life and felt she was more at risk if she faced consequences for her actions, but given that he's unlikely to know that, I can't think of any excuse! I am never going to be able to watch it now without imagining the animated stink lines coming from the sheets...
Spot on with Nick and Charlie's conversation about not being ready to take things further, it is 100% accurate to my life at that age. Plus the show is aimed at younger viewers. There are 11 yr olds watching this that need to be equipped in how to have conversations around consent and this provides them with a perfect script. Its a lot healthier than something like Grease which I was watching at that age.
Thanks for the wonderful, thoughtful and funny video, as ever!
Nick's dad did leave some money on the table, but it's not really worth mentioning because that's the bare minimum.
This isn't a reaction, this is a full university level analysis!
Thank you for this, Thom, I just returned from holiday and as I kept getting notifications about this video I was like I need to see it already! :)
Well, first things first - Nick’s Dad really pisses me off, he has a wonderful son who he keeps pushing away from him for reasons that are basically non-existent. I mean, sir, he’s not a child anymore, he can see there’s something seriously wrong and if you really want to leave him out of his life so badly at least have the decency to give him a valid explanation, because ghosting is never okay, let alone when it’s your SON who’s done nothing wrong.
On the more positive note, Tao and Elle sharing news about their relationship is adorable (and it also reminds me of Grease for some reason :D ) and you’re right, Nick is pretty hardcore shipper of Tao and Elle and has been secretely and subtly trying to give them privacy in the first Paris trip episode. And the excitement on his face when he learns the news is unmatched.
I’m really glad that Nick can see through Charlie’s deflecting and still calmly insists on actually talking about problematic triggering stuff, but I’m also worried that Charlie still calculates a bit with what he’s saying to him to make him feel less worried, but more on that later.
Also, the entire Paris squad out in the wild streets of Paris is adorable, especially Nick and Charlie being less and less afraid of showing affection towards each other. You can see Nick gaining confidence in his sexuality from other queer couples a lot actually - the most notable moment is Tara and Darcy at Harry’s party and also today’s webcomic update (no spoilers) :).
I feel like Tara being disappointed with Darcy bringing vodka to her party might be down to the fact she knows that she’s struggling with something, but tries to look like he’s ignoring it and she might also be worried that there might be more drunk people at her party and it’s gonna go south.
And also the way Charlie shuts the door into Harry’s face after his most generic „apology“ is absolutely epic. I actually like that all he said was NO. Because honestly, let’s normalize that no means no, without the necessity of giving any explanation. Does Harry even remotely realize what he’s done to Charlie? It’s not just banter, he almost killed him.
And finally, Nick and Charlie’s intimate moments in this episode are just so soft and beautiful - the tenderness of „recharging“, Charlie’s little peck on Nick’s cheek and their all nighter spent just by talking and kissing and above it all the freedom and relief after the coming out... Thank you for bringing back the subject of Nick and Charlie not having „hanky-panky“ being a thing. I’ve seen comments everywhere about how untruthful the series is, which is frankly ridiculous. We’re talking about a 15 year old boy who’s suffering from major body dysmorphia (+ he has recently been sexually assaulted) and a 16 old guy who’s just figuring his sexuality, it’s only normal that they want to wait and the fact that they are able to have such a healthy conversation about consent is something that really needs to be seen more in the media.
I also thought that scene felt like Grease. I nearly expected them to break into song on the first watch. :D
@@snoopy_J I mean Kit once mentioned that a musical episode would be interesting and basically all of them can sing, so... 😁
Stéphane did end up leaving some euros on the table before he sprinted off, so as dismissive and lacklustre as that interaction was, at the very least he didn’t leave Nick and Charlie with the bill for the invisible coffees.
This episode, for me, highlights how brilliant Heartstopper is as an adaptation. I love the differences and how they’re developed here: we actually meet Nick’s dad after the unanswered texts, the distance between Tara and Darcy gets partially resolved but leaves more to be explored, and everything with Isaac and James is so achingly melancholic. And yet, we get really iconic and important scenes ripped straight off of the page. From small details like the landmarks they see, to the game of truth or dare, to the teachers’ tender moments, and the Nick and Charlie/Tao and Elle moments over the ensuing night, they get everything PERFECTLY right. Not many adaptations can get right that balance of honouring the source material while expanding the world in a way that fits so seamlessly as this.
Everything I was gonna say about sexuality in this show you pretty much captured in your analysis of Nick and Charlie’s important conversation about consent. I will add that an important thing that gets demonstrated here is how *enthusiastic* consent must be, as shown when Charlie picks up on Nick’s hesitant “yes.” I agree that it is a realistic choice for these characters not to proceed physically for now, and that it does not make this show sex negative in the slightest. And you’re right, many of us do wish we’d waited a little bit longer. (Just a teeny bit in my case.)
I also agree with you on the matter of Charlie’s saying that he’d be okay if Nick never wanted to go further. It does send a good message, and I know couples where one is allo and the other aspec, and they have wonderful relationships. That said, I do get maybe a smidge more of a sense of sadness from that line, only because right before he says it, Nick assures Charlie that he does want to go further one day, and before that, Nick assured him that he was enjoying what they were doing. So this fits in with a pattern of Charlie dismissing Nick’s reassurance or concern, and putting other people’s needs before his own. At least, in my viewing of it.
I love your take on the different cuddling positions being a representation of the balance of their relationship! So beautiful.
Lovely video as always Thom!
Edit: aspec autocorrected to aspect lol
My continued campaign thanking everyone who talks about this scene between Nick and Charlie and about how it’s okay not to be ready for “hanky-panky” continues with this video. Thank you for that discussion. It really annoyed me that some people think this series is somehow unrealistic because Nick and Charlie aren’t ready. The “drag queens react” video was the worst of it, and so I’m thanking everyone who goes against that narrative because that video made me so angry about it.
The most realistic thing ever is acknowledging that there is a probability distribution over time about when people are going to be ready to advance to certain milestones of intimacy. Regardless of how many people are ready at 15 or 16, there will always be people who feel ready earlier and those who feel ready later. Lots of people wait for any number of reasons, and the people who rail that it is unrealistic are the ones who somehow cannot imagine outside their own experience.
Right! I was fuming with the "drag queens react". Charlie is just 15, and Nick is just 16! (Well, I’m gay and already 23 and haven’t done that yet.)
I love Heartstopper because it’s just a breath of fresh air. I’m done with the oversexualized queer media.
yeah, I usually like Trixie and Katya, but that really rubbed me the wrong way. When you’re 15/16, not even two queer boys together are automatically going to feel ready to rip their clothes off and go at it the first time they get a chance. And when you consider Charlie’s mental health issues and the fact that Nick just realized he isn’t straight a couple months ago? Of course they’re going to be a little unsure. Speaking as a cis gay man (tho admittedly one who’s on the ace spectrum), this generalized ideal in gay culture that all mlm dudes should be dtf at any given moment is really annoying.
I really did appreciate A Story Worth Telling for also acknowledging that not everyone is ready at that age.
I haven't seen that drag queens reaction but I am not shocked they said that. I was picking up on bad vibes from that video.
Hi Thom, Great video! The one thing that stands out to me in episode 6, perhaps, one of the most important statements of the entire series, is Mr. Ajayi telling Mr. Farouk that there is no age limit for having beautiful first experiences. I think those words of reassurance are part of the reason Heartstopper is so incredibly appealing to people of all of ages. It telegraphs so clearly that it doesn't matter where you are in life, you can experience the beauty and excitement of love at any age. Heartstopper is so amazing to me because of the way it relentlessly appeals to our better senses with unbelievable candor and sincerity. Kindness, openness, acceptance, caring, and loving are celebrated without a trace of cynicism or skepticism. Every time I watch Heartstopper I feel like my emotions are free to breathe and exist in an atmosphere free of shame and censure. In the past I have so often felt the need to pretend to be too urbane or sophisticated to appreciate the innocence and beauty of a story as sweet and pure as Heartstopper. Oseman has created something so special and liberating it feels absolutely essential. Can you tell I LOVE Hearstopper? Thanks again, Thom, for creating a such a wonderful place to express ourselves.
What I find curious about the Ben truth/dare scene is that he didn’t say anything or get defensive until *after* Charlie said no. Which makes me wonder if maybe part of him for a moment would have considered doing it “for the dare”, since he seemed to be getting into the game. Or would he have said no anyway (in this extremely hypothetical nightmare universe where Charlie wouldn’t have been adamantly against kissing Ben) because he wouldn’t have wanted to feed into whatever rumors were started by Imogen’s outburst? I also find Imogen’s look as Ben is denying things really interesting - I wonder if she’s feeling a bad about saying the Charlie thing in front of everyone, now that she’s realized she was right. I’m really curious about Ben’s behavior in this episode, because I think it has a lot to do with his transition into the apology in the next one. Especially the part where Charlie slams the door in Harry’s face, and Ben stares at him being celebrated for it (angstily, as you said). I want to know what he’s thinking there. Part of me kind of thinks this night, as well as Nick coming out, is what causes him to admit to himself that he actually wants to be openly queer, but that he can’t because of his parents. He sees how well everything seems to be going for Nick and Charlie and thinks “I want that.”
That is a REALLY good point about Ben not protesting until after Charlie says no. I hadn't considered it before, but you're very right about that. :O
You’ve given us food for thought
I have a theory! Hear me out: David and Stephan both enjoy and bond over rugby, right? And we can assume David’s enjoyed rugby since he was young, right? I think the reason Nick first got into rugby was so he could have something to bond with his dad over because he noticed how David and Stephan bonded over it (and then, of course, he grew to genuinely enjoy it)
The actor playing Stephane is a very famous actor called Thibault de Montalembert , he has one of the lead roles in call my agent , which is also an amazing series on Netflix
15:11 Isaac brought the book with him because he didn't want to be bored if there was any downtime. He also brought ten other books with him for his one week trip, because he would clearly have time to read them all.
Edit: Issac is me
If you ever have the time I’d love a heartstopper book club where we read one of the books Isaac reads in the show and have like a live show every couple of months to discuss the books. I know you have a life and you don’t have to but it would be super cool one day.
Strange coincidence: I watched a S2E6 reaction from another channel today, and the reactor was wearing the same shirt you're wearing in this video. You both have great taste!
I loved your editing in this video! The end result was definitely worth putting your poor laptop through the flames of hell for. 🔥🔥Good job!
I noticed something with the subtitles: When Nick's dad calls his name, it's suddenly spelled "Nicolas" instead of "Nicholas".
I love the "Where's Waldo?" (aka "où est Charlie?") scene so much! It's both adorable and funny.
The "it matters to me" line broke me. Ow.
I love that Mr. Farouk's story matters so much to all of us who have realized our queerness as adults. It's refreshing, in a show about young queer love, to not only also have an adult perspective on the same theme, but to more specifically have a late bloomer adult perspective. "I don't think there's an age limit on those" is especially powerful for those of us who haven't yet had any (youthful or not) moments of discovery yet. It's not too late for us :')
Oh the comparison between Nick and Charlie's first kiss and the kiss between James and Isaac blew my mind!
Thank you for explaining once again why showing teens who are not ready to be physically intimate with each other doesn't mean that Hearstopper is anti-sex. I just hate that it has to be said every time!
OH MY GOD I can't wait to hear you talk about Imogen! 👀👀👀
I totally approve of the longer gaps between your videos. They are definitely worth the wait. 😉 Thank you for everything you do!
I watched the same video (Eric Reacts, I think?) and was immensely amused by the unintentional wardrobe twinning. 😆
Yup, that's the one haha!
And as for Heartstopper being anti-sex, if you read some of the stuff Alice has written that’s set later on in Nick & Charlie’s relationship, you’ll see that they eventually become quite enthusiastic about it.
@@danieloneal7137Exactly! It's just a matter of doing things at their own pace.
I didn’t even notice Nick and his dad have the same wave I literally Said “oh my god” when you pointed it out. I love your videos 😊😆❤️
I like the part where charlie says “let’s walk back to the bus you can rant about him the whole way there “ and you see nick look down like Charlie held his hand again it’s really cute
10:55 I was thinking that Nick's dad knew that he had already scheduled a work call when he agreed to meet up with Nick. He was likely hoping that Nick would say, no, he couldn't meet up that quickly.
Last season it seemed like everyone caught on to the yellow and blue color scheme with Charlie and Nick...and that is still carried on in season 2, albeit a little more subtly... This season, I noticed a color theme that it seems no reaction videos have mentioned....this season's cinematography deals with the over saturation of color versus the draining of color. The scenes when Charlie and Nick are happy and secure, there is this golden glow and/or an oversaturated color palate that create this dreamlike quality that reflects and accentuates their happiness (giddiness) in their newly committed relationship. But this season, when there is conflict or doubt, those scenes have a subdued or a drained color palate. The easiest example of this is when Harry and his minion comes to the door of the party....the room itself is drenched in color and warmth, and the hallway is in greyish/blue colors that makes Harry appear to be in black and white....when David is introduced, the lighting in the Nelson apartment is almost like early evening, not the normal golden glow of earlier scenes....and when Charlie and Nick speak on the balcony, they are again in evening, color subduing lighting, just outside of the over drenched color inside the party room. To me this added to the season and helped us feel the way about scenes that Alice and Eros wanted us to feel. When Charlie and Nick come to the party, they stand in the hallway at the door looking like they are in black and white, then the door opens and the fully oversaturated colors of friendship and freedom comes to welcome them inside....no wonder this is the room that Nick feels safe enough to come out in front of a room of people! It reminds me of the Wizard of Oz, when Kansas is in black and white and Oz is in full saturated color.
Great observation!!
48:37 Kid 1 also was in the museum room when Charlie passed out (they were standing with Harry's friend from the door slam denial.) Both of them were laughing at the situation, so that kinda tells me everything I need to know about them 😶
I can’t stand that door slam friend, he’s Harry’s most loyal enabler.
What I find interesting though is Ben sneaks in where Harry actually knocks and asks to come in. Harry even tries apologizing to Nick specifically then asks once again to come in where Ben has to sneak around.
This is definitely my favourite episode of the season. So much character development. So many feels. Perfectly sets up the final 2 episodes.
And Tobie's performance as Isaac is particularly brilliant
That whole Darcy throwing up was a plot device to get the teachers to sleep together
You’re so awesome Thom. I hope you hit the algorithm and soar! You deserve it!
I hope Isaac brought an extra suitcase!😂
I thought the same thing!
at least they didn't take a plane there lol. I have to keep reminding myself of that every time I see all those books.
I loved that scene of Aled on the balcony.
He's perfectly content and there is no crisis. He's a demisexual and the only person that he can look at so lovingly is back home
A little internet sleuthing revealed that Kid 1 was called Millie in the script and is played by an actor named Ruby Mendoza. There are some behind the scenes pics of Ruby in costume wearing a Higgs uniform with trousers as well as a tux for prom. Unfortunately, I don’t know if any of that made it into the final cut of the show. I certainly never noticed Kid 1 outside of the Paris scenes (but then again I wasn’t really looking; I’ll have to keep my eyes peeled next time I rewatch). But it is interesting to note that Higgs apparently doesn’t mandate skirts for the students.
10:05 I don’t speak Japanese but there was a song in the ‘80s by Styx called “Mr. Roboto” There’s a line in it, “domo arigato, Mr. Roboto.” So hearing people pronounce that restaurant so terribly would be frustrating!
Re: Sahar and Imogen
Yes, it's noteworthy that they've fallen asleep together. However, I have Tao's experience that when I have feelings for someone, I feel like I'm being electrocuted when I am simply close to them; falling asleep next to my crush would be impossible. Ep 8 has us feeling a certain type of way, but I have mixed feelings at the evidence presented here. To me it seems that, at this particular time and place, they are still just friends. I'm not saying this is evidence that it's all they'll ever be, but that's what they are now.
After having established blue and yellow as the thematic colors in Season 1, the Production Team decided that Season 2's color palette was going to be "pink and pistachio." In my opinion, that's why all the girls are wearing green on Day 3 - it's because wardrobe got the memo and just went matchy-matchy that day for the sake of aesthetics. Also, it is plausible that the girls got together and decided to coordinate for their last day, as that is something that the ladies sometimes do in my office.
And the green is particularly symbolic for Nick & Charlie. The blue and yellow represent the 2 boys as individuals, but mix them and you get green. 2 becoming 1.
„Kid 1“ had me eye rolling so many times during the Truth/Dare scene 🙄😂
29:08 I was thinking that too. We don't see Tara's dad, only her mom. So maybe Tara's dad had a problem with alcohol or another family member. Or maybe she's just very concerned because Darcy seems very determined to get drunk.
I did not read Tara's disappointment as being directed at the alcohol specifically, so much as the loud boisterous party in general. What I took away from this sequence is the contrast between Nick and Charlie's quiet "recharging" moment and the fact that all Tara wants is a quiet honest moment like that with Darcy.. but Darcy's not ready..
I like your username/handle!
Edit: Also, that's a good point even though I thought Tara didn't like the alcohol consumption, but maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part.
@@snoopy_J I'm super enjoying the show so I haven't bought/read any of the graphic novels yet. It's entirely possible that Tara does have reasons to avoid alcohol and I'm just not aware of them yet (given what we know about Darcy's home life by the end of this season it's not out of the realm of possibility that Darcy does some self medicating to cope, but storyline wise that's not something that Tara would be privy to yet)
🤷
I grew up in a household that didn't drink and I'm not personally a fan myself but it just wasn't what stood out to me in this instance
47:23 This. I think this after ever reaction. Thanks for speaking on it.
The thing about some people thinking it is unrealistic that Nick and Charlie don’t want to have sex is crazy to me because not every one is ready or wants to. Also, they just came back from a party that had more of less stress. They got put in an uncomfortable situation. First Ben came to the party
Second Charlie gets dared to kiss someone especially because of the Hickey rumor (side note I think my phone auto makes Hickey upper case cause that is my mom’s maiden name) and THEN gets dared to kiss Ben. Which with what happens in season one and the assault is not good for Charlie
Third there is this stress between Nick and Charlie because Nick wants to come out but can’t do it
THEN people ask him about the Hickey. And Nick comes out
So when they get back to the room they are talking about the roller coster of what just happened in like 10 minutes (could be more or less I dont know). So for people to think JUST because they have a room to themselves mess they will have sex please stop or something. And then they literally say they are not ready. Thank you if your read this
I think because Joe & Kit have aged into their late teens, it's easy to forget Charlie is still 15 in this season. Obviously some people are sexually active at that age, but the vast majority aren't
I think Tara was most likely just disappointed because she wanted Darcy to be honest about her feelings and stop turning everything into a joke. Instead Darcy's throwing a big party and getting drunk with a bunch of kids they barely know, pretty much the opposite of the emotional vulnerability Tara's been wanting from her.
I think Harry spent a long time in season 1 and the first half of season 2 deluding himself into thinking Charlie was just a weird gay blip in Nick's life (whatever the actual nature of their relationship was), and obviously Nick would always come back to Harry and his lot. It feels like by season 2 ep 5 Harry has realized Nick truly does not want to be friends with him anymore (he's not just "in a mood"), and now he's losing social capital. Harry's also inadvertently burnt bridges with Tara, who we get the impression is pretty popular (or at least is someone Harry has historically hyped up) and all the other kids at her party, which is clearly the place to be on their last night in Paris. Definitely a self-serving "apology," and also notable imo that Harry shows no interest in making amends with Tao, and in season 1 Harry didn't even seem to *remember* bullying Elle (and/or never bothered learning her name). I think it's definitely about saving face and maybe salvaging his relationship with Nick (good luck with that) more than anything else. I liked Charlie's succinct "no." I agree the Ben speech is more important, and I also don't think Harry was worth Charlie's effort lol.
Comic fans always theorized that James had a secret crush on Charlie. I like that we sort of got confirmation of that in this episode. It is a truth universally acknowledged that no queer boy at Truham can resist Charlie Spring's charms!
But Kid 1 is a MENACE. Then acting all chill like they didn't just emotionally terrorize Charlie for shits and giggles??
I really appreciate everything you said about the scene where Nick and Charlie decide they're not ready for sex yet. The backlash has been so irritating. Mocking the idea of teenagers not feeling immediately ready for sex, or the idea that Nick and Charlie would be so conscientious about consent, is the opposite of sex positive. The way Charlie pays such close attention to Nick's nonverbal cues and clocks his hesitance is so consistent with the way Charlie's treated Nick throughout their relationship when it comes to kissing and other boundaries. Obviously that care and mindfulness goes both ways, and I imagine Charlie's history with Ben and what Nick knows of that influences their behavior, on top of them being very kind and attentive with each other generally of course.
I won't be able to watch the Mr. Farouk/Mr. Ajayi scene without thinking about the stench of Darcy's vomit in the air now, thanks for that. :/
I had not noticed the thumb stroking the phone parallel!!
47:00 I picked up on that too and they were hanging around Harry and the rugby lads on the eiffel tower so when I saw other reactors using she/her pronouns i had a john cena moment lol. And with heartstopper's message of not assuming someones sexuality based on looks I reckon that translates over to gender aswell.
Thanks again Thom for such a good video and I love all the comments it attracts. I think a lot of what I would say has been covered in other comments but a couple of things I would add.
1. When Mr Farouk calls them out when they're about to smooch in the corridor I think he is well aware of Nick and Charlie's relationship and has a soft spot , I think, particularly for Charlie. He, like everyone in the school, knows Charlie is gay, and I think that makes him protective which is why he gives unusual leeway in the study hall and is so kind when Charlie faints. ( also later in the comics he asks Charlie to think about the head boy position).
2. I wonder whether Ben pressured Charlie into some sort of sexual acts when they were together and that maybe a subtext in what Charlie says to him later on and therefore he is VERY alive to consent around sex in the talk he has with Nick. Nick has only just come into recognising he has feelings for Charlie relatively recently so sex is a big step and I wasn't in the least surprised that he is wary of that next step. (But also in the comics they are exploring that side of things and maybe would have done sooner if Charlie's mental health hadn't taken the turn it does). So I have no truck with those that think it is unrealistic.
I got the impression from the way Ben and Charlie acted when they were alone that they hadn’t proceeded beyond kissing, but I could definitely be wrong about that. We do know that they never met up outside of school (based on Charlie suggesting it during the “we’re not boyfriends” conversation and Ben reacting badly to the very idea of it), and while it’s possible that things could have strayed in a more intimate direction touch-wise even if they never progressed to sex, I don’t really get that vibe. It feels more like stolen kisses between classes, though again, that’s just my impression.
Regardless, Ben definitely did not ask for Charlie’s consent when it came to what they DID do together, and I’m sure that’s a big part of why Charlie is so conscious of making sure he has Nick’s full consent with anything they do.
@@thom_is_trans Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. You are absolutely right that there is no real evidence for what I am saying here. It is a thought I had, particularly on my second viewing, that Charlie's ' someone taking whatever he wants from me whenever he wants' and the general vehemence of Charlie's speech could mean that Ben was perhaps even more pushy than I myself first thought. It could also be projection as I certainly at 14 had an older boy getting me to do things for their own pleasure that I went along with, ( nothing too much but very selfish), that I think led me to have my suspicion.
Yeah, I think Harry had figured things out by the Eiffel Tower scene, and then him asking to speak to "Nick and Charlie" as a unit to apologize for his homophobia definitely suggests to me that he has figured it out by then that Nick and Charlie are together.
I love watching your commentary on Heartstopper! I'm looking forward to the last two episode (don't stress though, mental health has to come first!).
20 out of 10 reaction video Thom. I teared up slightly at the Kid 1 section, thank you 💜
Idk if it’s just me looking too into it but I noticed that Isaac happens to wear clothes that are the colors of the aroace flag multiple times throughout this season :)
It's heartstopper; you are almost certainly not looking too into it. I'll now be going back, paying attention to this. Thank you.
Great video Thom, I like the detail. So here'smy dissertation...
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I thought Nick's Dad's "I miss that boy" about David as vacuous as his interactions with Nick. But I think you are right that David longs for his father. He would have been older when his parents split up, perhaps more attached. Maybe his acting out is desparately trying to prove that he's Dad's boy.
I think Darcy wants to give Tara a fabulous birthday but is using the party and the alcohol to hide from her And Tara is worried because it all takes Darcy away from her .
Like Isaac I loved books. Like Isaac I used them as a barrier to make me defended and invisible.
I think Harry might have started to think a lot of 'cool' people thin homophobia is uncool. I thought he said 'Nick and Charlie' at random because he saw them as they came in from the balcony. Not sure he is smart enough to twig they are a couple.
I think Ben's almost jealous when Charlie shuts the door on Harry, because he doesn't have that kind of confidence or courage. But when dare to kiss he doubles down on denying knowing Charlie - he's as scared of being 'caught ' as ever.
I absolutely LOVE the emphasis on consent, respect, communication - both in the scene where Nick is necking Charlie and the bedroom scene. And I think as you said showcasing that you don't need to feel you have to have sex if your not ready, including for fellas. Is soimportant and very rare. I did think Charlie promising he would pass on ever having sex if Nick didn't want to a bit extreme ... but he's 15, in love, and habitually puts others first. Not implausible. Most older teen shows showcase teens being absurdly, obsessively promiscuous. Not the experience I had - or any of my friends- or fro what I hear - my kids and their friends.
Could this series be any better constructed or any better acted. OMG it is so damn good!
Has anyone mentioned the blue and yellow lighting in the hallway when Nick takes Charlie on his back, yet? A little throwback to their colours in season 1 :)
Please take as long as you need to post these. You do such a good job and it's always worth the wait.
My thoughts. I always assumed that Tara isn't feeling her surprise party that much bc she was hoping it would be more intimate and it's so loud and feels like more of a distraction for Darcy. I feel like without meaning to, Darcy is STILL using the party to hide her feelings and distract from talking about the scary stuff. And yeah, the fact that Tara is alone a lot at her own bday party is sad and would make me sad if I was in her shoes.
I think that the song lyrics about Nick and Charlie being each others medicine still ring true throughout Charlies mental health issues. Yes, Charlie needs professional help and more help than Nick alone can offer, but the strong foundation that him and Nick built helps him to feel strong enough to take those steps.
I love seeing how happy Tao and Elle are together. ^^
Nick's wave actually changed this season. It resembles Charlie's wave. Boyfriend influence...
I have a few head canons I would like to share about Imogen.
One. She could be Demisexual because if you look at it she mentioned that her and Ben have been friends for a long time and then she started to fancy him. And Nick they were friends for a while and only then she fancied him and asked him out. (I am also including Sahar in this because I believe they will be together) and her and Sahar were best friends.
Two. (This ties in with the demisexual thing) Imogen use to have a lot more girl best friends but when they got close she started to catch feelings but she did not know what these feelings really were so she would shut the friend out and also get a boyfriend so she would not have to think about these feelings. Also she got more guy friends so she would not experience these feeling. This is assuming she is a lesbian. Which I think she will turn out to be one. Please give me your thoughts and comments about this because I feel like I am the only one thinking this.
This is my favourite episode, and I really love the "where is wally" moment too❤ Thanks for the great and detailed reaction as always 😘🙂
I love the song at the start but whenever it randomly pops into my mind, it keeps going "dans le métro, je pense à toi" :D Because they were just exiting the métro and I could imagine that line being directed from Nick to Charlie but also to his dad in that moment. But I just googled the lyrics and will now try to remember the right version for when it gets stuck in my head again. :D Great video and tons of invaluable insights as always and, as Kim already explained, thank you so much for not assuming Kid 1's gender and for explaining the why and how so clearly. Take your time on the videos 💜
22:41 I think Corinna mentioned in an interview that the green shirt she wears here may have ended up in her home closet for some odd reason. ;)
You can break up episodes 7 & 8 into 2 parts each (if it gets too long). We wont mind it 😉
That would make it easier for Thom’s laptop to handle too 🔥 😅
I think that's a great idea especially when this one hour and 10 minute video was not nearly long enough for me😊
Maximum video potential. As a wise man once said.
OMG THIS IS SUCH A ROLLER COASTER OF EVENTS! Too much to process.
Thank you so so so so much for this. You don’t understand how this brought me so much joy today. I tried to make a bad day good even the night before! Yet it was still kinda bad. You don’t have to read this I just need someone to rant. I won’t go into much detail because like you probably don’t want to hear it but I had a monster energy drink with me and I go to a class before school starts and we car pool to get me and other kids in my school doing the same thing to school and I was drinking the monster and I was acting normal. My friend who is in a class with the guy who’s car we were in so she told me about this. He was saying how I was “ bouncing off the walls and talking really fast” but one I talk fast every day and two I was just bouncing my leg really fast like I do ALL THE TIME. Then the teacher was like yea your mind just tricks you to do that when you have caffeine and she is probably just faking. This hit me hard because it took me some time to just me my self around other people so thank you again (there was more but that was the biggest thing)
Awww, here's a big Nick Nelson hug for you from across the miles! I've been adult for decades, and it still hurts sometimes when people make me feel other or less than when I'm being my unguarded, genuine self. It stings at first, but eventually the effect of the judgment and the careless comments fade, and the people you can surround yourself with know you and appreciate you with all of your quirks, or as Tara says to Darcy, because of them! I hope tomorrow is better, and I hope your friend chooses to share something that makes you feel good next time you see her.
@@elisabethbauman6190thanks you so much. Today was a bit better but this made it even better
Some notes about the Truth or Dare game
1) Kid 1 was next to Harry and the Entourage on the Eiffel Tower when Nick got asked about the hickey and responded, "Why, you jealous?" I'm low-key surprised that the Pot-Stirrer didn't tell Charlie to kiss Nick rather than James, because it would have been much juicier to see everyone's minds explode over that. It seems like asking two known gay guys to kiss is less tantalizing than to have the "Rugby King" lay a smooch on his close friend in front of everyone for what may or may not have been the first time. IDK, just seems like the more titillating dare, IMHO.
2) Tao is so well-known as Charlie's friend and staunch defender that nobody is ribbing him about the possibility of having given Charlie a hickey, and everyone stares in shock and incredulity as Tao gives Charlie a humorous peck for the sake of the game. Like, Charlie was in Tao's presence constantly for the entire term and the entire trip, and no one believes it could have been him. I think that's noteworthy.
3) As Ben storms out of the room after freaking out at being told to kiss Charlie for the sake of the game, he kicks Nick on the way out. I'm not saying that he did it out of spite, but he certainly doesn't try to move his legs out of the way of Nick's body as he's making a beeline for the door,
I wouldn't trust these kids to be perceptive enough to notice Tao following Elle around like a puppy dog, but I do wonder whether his grand date proposal is something people on the trip knew about. It happened outside right after the Paris meeting and was very dramatic!
@@normaladjacent Excellent point!
1:00:07 I thought for sure that this was depicted in the books with Charlie face down but it isn’t
13:51 I’ve seen a theory on this scene that nicks dad may have caught on that Charlie is something more to nick - notice he talks about having a girlfriend in French but says everything else in English so Charlie can hear
33:24 I've wondered if Isaac will be aroace or just ace. With one of S1's iconic lines from Isaac is "I want to believe in romance!" I've wondered if he'll still like someone but that's as far as it goes. S2 definitely leads you to believe that Isaac will be aroace, but I keep thinking about that line from S1.
you can believe in something like romance in a philosophical sense even if you don’t experience it for yourself
For an apparently throwaway line, it’s very interesting that Isaac doesn’t say he _does_ believe in romance - just that he _wants_ to. Having an a aroace person in my life has really opened up my awareness of how pervasive the compulsory allo narrative is, and how destabilising and upsetting and plain damaging that can be. Of course Alice is all over it in the subtlest and gentlest way.
24:16 ISAAC HERE IS A LIFESTYLE
🙂
Watching this and reading everyone's insightful comments makes me so happy. A few things:
I feel SO bad for James. He seems like such a sweet and genuinely good person. I am curious what he meant at the ice cream vendor about bring around other gay people. Obviously Tara and Darcy are out but I'm not sure if he knows about Nick and Charlie at that point. He's obviously picked up on nonstraight vibes from Isaac, but it's never spelled out what his sexuality is, prior to him figuring out he's Ace. In season one Tau describes himself as Charlie's token straight friend, so does that mean Isaac has told them he's not straight?
Also re: James, who are his friends? They are mentioned (wanting to go to McDonald's and teasing him about the hickey) but i dont remember seeing him with anyone on the coach, bonfire party, etc.
At Tara's party who were all those random couples making out? I don't remember seeing any of them before.
The vomit sheets - I also wondered why they were still on the bed. And multiple reactors have wondered why Darcy was brought to the teacher's room instead of just the bathroom, which definitely makes more sense. But without the vomit sheets i doubt the teachers would have had the nerve to hook up, and of course all that is from the comics.
The first time watching this episode i was disappointed about the lack of response from Charlie to Harry's apology. But as soon as I saw Ben's apology scene in the next episode it made complete sense and was definitely more important.
On the coach on the way home with the couples together, we get a happy Elle and Tau, a relaxed Nick and Charlie (until Char sees the Instagram comment) but poor Darcy looks so uncomfortable. Obviously she is still struggling with Tara not knowing the truth about her homelife.
I guess that's more than a few things...
The Swimming Pool Library is an excellent novel by the award winning gay writer Alan Hollinghurst. It may be rather too explicit for a 15 year old, though.
I love this episode!! I didn't like Nick's dad at all! Nick deserves a dad that cares about him. Nick's emotions is showing through but his dad is not noticing it at all. I love that Charlie is right there by him for the moral support. Nick needs support because his dad doesn't really cares about him or even shows. Charlie is that support system for him like he is with Nick in the first season. I love how Nick and Charlie can communicate telepathically without words. I saw somewhere, I think it was Facebook that someone posted that if you look in the background on season 2 episode 6, Heartstopper comics are in that book store where Issac is shopping for books. And in the hotel, on the bed side, is a croissant plushie I believe which brings back to the moment where Charlie passed out.
I think Tara has some alcoholic issues within her family that brought up some issues with alcohol. I have a feeling that Jane is going to be a problem next season but I might be wrong. I always thought James and Issac will be a cute couple in my opinion. I love Nick's eyes on Charlie. His emotions is shown through his eyes. I have noticed that his emotions are shown through physical touch in the first season while his emotions are showing through his eyes. I love Charlie's growth in being confident of sticking up for himself without Nick being there by his side. I love how Nick is showing being proud of Charlie in this episode. I love the scene where they are play fighting and ending where Charlie is on Nick's lap. That's my favorite scene! I also love how they both always ask "why are we like this?" That is their question all the way through the comics and I love how they put it in the show. Another thing that I love about Nick and Charlie is how comfortable they are with each other. Thats my favorite Narlie moment of all time. Narlie = love. I can't wait for episode eight because I want to see your reaction Nick's moment in the episode.
This is so worth the wait.. take your time... we'll be waiting patiently for the next video. You are awesome!!
I love the video! Great job on the video. Can't wait for the next video.
I have seen what I feel are some overreactions about the "not ready to have sex" conversation in this episode. You are right that it's perfectly normal and also, great behaviour to model. Charlie is only 15 years old here. I think an aspect of the show that slightly obscures the issue is that the actors, while young, are not THAT young. If you look around at some real 15-year-olds, it's a bit easier to imagine a stunningly mature version of that teenager saying yeah, I'm gonna work up to that but it will take some time.
The other point to be made is that "sex" is never quite defined here. They say that one day they would like to do "that," but especially for the queer community, it's not just one thing that maps onto that word. The two boys still find the word hard to say, so it's absolutely true that they haven't explored its complexities yet. So we can all clearly see that they are not ready. But we know they'll be great at that conversation when they do have it!
I wish you so much luck with the last two episodes cause I can already forsee you having to deal with at least two hours on both of them if not close to 3 on the finale XD Also great timing as I have been rewatching the entire series today and got to this episode just a bit ago SO fresh reactions and opinions on at least the first 15 minutes XD
It's really dope they got a famous French actor to be Nick's Dad, only a famous person can have the privledge of being Olivia Coleman's ex-husband :p And I didn't notice he waves the same as Nick XD Just imagine baby Nick seeing his Dad wave to his collegues and/or him at his childhood rugby games waving to him and then just copying him. I feel like they never get the coffees cause they make it seem like they instantly walk back to the coach once Stefan leaves. Poor Coffees. "You never visit anymore!" Proceeds to explain how he hasn't invited Nick because there was work done on his house. Also it really makes me wonder how long it's been since NIck visited cause Nick still hasn't met his father's current Partner, so you'd think it's been a few years if they are living together at this moment and he seems very non-commital on ever introducing Nick to her. Like you said it does feel like he's separating these aspects of his life and is doing a horrible job of finding a balance. It hits deep having that connection that Nick does with his Dad with some family members. Some people i keep at arms length for a reason while others the door is open but they never feel like taking it. I was actually taken off guard years ago when I very much expected my one sister to accept very surface level responses and she ended up asking me to talk further and elaborate. While I do understand from the point of view of someone who isn't very forthcoming about my life, if you really care then you'll try and learn about someone just by asking about information one what little they do share. I do think that is a wild assumption that Stefan would do that XD While that is very funny I do think it's just coincidental with how often Stefan seems preoccupied. Like being too busy to answer Nick right after calling him, not texting for days, needing to get back to London after dinner, etc etc. (I am very down to talk about things next time cause man do I have opinions on David and their father XD) I won't get into details cause reasons, but my Dad had a very similar opinion of dating with me. Asking if I was interested in anyone and then pushing me to get out there and find a Girlfriend whenever I could. It kind of put me off just like it does Nick to ever come out to him as Bi that eventually i never did. It def is a certain relative personality with people you rarely see that is turned to 11 when it's a parent cause there's more of a sense of interest and pressure.
We love Charlie: Master of Deflection. And I honestly love that Nick in that moment just goes through his deflection and then refutes what Charlie says. Like they had their moment after his Dad left to talk about how Nick felt so he just ignores it, brings it back to the issue of how Charlie is doing to which Charlie tries to use humor since the last tactic didn't work, and then Nick just blasts Charlie's walls down by telling Charlie that his happiness matters to him. You are definitely right in that I think Charlie is very inexperienced in having people confront his deflections ONTOP of the fact that Nick flat out tells him that his feelings matter. The only other person you really see do that is Tori when he's upset in Season 1 and she directly tells him that Charlie has not ruined her life and then offers pizza. Charlie never really deals with people that will put him before themselves, even his dad who definitely has been there for him in his bad moments does not actively assist Charlie so he is easy to be deflected. Tori and Nick are really the only people who can look Charlie in the eye and remind him that no matter what the voice in his head says, "Charlie is important" and Charlie deserves to be heard out. Which obviously does help a lot with his self-confidence and self-worth to have people tell him this and it's great to see how strong their relationships with each other are that they can have these personal moments and be stronger together.
Mr. Farouk's story is so important to us older viewers. There are so many people who don't really begin to piece things together until their later 20s. Like I knew for years since my teenage years I was Bi but I'm almost 30 now and it has only been in the past few years that I have been so confident in my identity that I began to stop questioning myself and have opened myself to actually even dating guys. Now I just need to figure out how to deal with unhealthy crushes on people and I'll be a fully functioning adult XD SO great Mr Ajayi is there to at least open Mr Farouk to the idea that he can put himself out there regardless of whether they ended up together or not.
I sympathize so much with your Recharging dialogue. I get so exhausted by people that I just wanna nap, especially after birthday parties with family. But when i visited friends last year I never had any of thing when we hung out, there was no moment of "I need to spend like 1 hour away from you people so I don't mentally vanish" it constantly felt like I was on a charge and all our levels balanced out so we just had fun relaxing all day. Finding people you can just 'exist' with is such an important thing and a necceccity in dating as Nick and Charlie prove. They both know each other's limits and can take 5 minutes to recharge and kiss before dealing with something. And then they just go off alone at the party anyway and exist in bliss for a few minutes before going back. It's very wholesome and goals and I need it in my life.
I also felt like Tara's negative reaction to the Vodka is due to the fact it meant that Darcy would be incapable of having a serious time with her if she wanted. Like you said, in the comics it was more of a spoken about thing and Tara even happily participated a bit. But with them adding in more of Darcy's strife and their relationship struggles it makes sense that Tara would be less than pleased that yet again Darcy found a way to not hold herself responsible if Tara wanted to talk to her at some point. Which thankfully works out anyway when Darcy word vomits after physically vomitting lol I am curious how much of the later drinking scenes in the comic will be added like when they drink at Charlie's house and Nick takes Charlie to bed cause Charlie is drunk to which Charlie claims "I am not drunk." Casual and comfortable experimenting it such a nice thing to show cause it happens IRL and showing these kids experimenting but also being open enough to seek out an adult when they are worried is a good message to spread. Teach teens and even adults that it's ok to try things when you do it safely and with assistance and that it's ok to reach out if you need help or just a more experienced hand. And I love the mirroring of James/Issac's confession against Nick/Charlie. I'm so excited to get more of Issac and James' relationship next season cause I would really love from them to develop as good book friends or even delving into Issac finding a way to have a deep connection with James without it being romantic or physical. (I must admit I'm pretty devoid on Ace/Aro knowledge so I don't really know the likliness of this being a plotline. But I still stand I would love to see Issac and James at least be good friends through his journey) I wish to hug Issac everytime he runs back into the room and starts tearing up. Which honestly I do hope he talks a bit more to the group about his journey cause no one really addresses it onscreen even later on when Issac gets rightfully upset. (Also on an unrelated note, I want to know what it will take to have Kit and Joe do a reading of both their character's dialogues to Harry that got removed from the comics. Cause MAN i would so love to hear it lol even if i do agree that the next episode with Ben is very important and impactful and possibly too much ontop of Ben's moment)
The hotel room after the party is so intimate in very many ways. Proper communication and consent is so sexy. For one it's so nice to see them be playful with each other and how seamless it is that they can be playful and then romantic. It's defintely important to show that it's ok to not be ready and to voice that to your partners so you can both be ready if that time ever comes or if it never does. (I think i mentioned this before but I do love that Nick is the first one to bring it up cause to me that means he does want to eventually. Nick loves Charlie and probably does assume that eventually they'll get there, but feels comfortable enough to tell Charlie he isn't ready which is very understandable for someone who just discovered he loves a boy within the past year. Idk to me it just means a lot that the gay one isnt the one to automatically jump to that and that even despite all the complicated feelings Nick may have that he does love Charlie that much to one day hope for it and communicate with Charlie. Idk maybe im just weird and reading into it too much and my own weird thought process lol) Like you said, Be positive about it while also respecting people's boundaries and choices. And we adore Charlie's love for Nick that whatever boundaries Nick may have that CHarlie is there regardless to stand by Nick. And agreed best "Why are we like this" moment. And everything you said about Charlie and Nick being alone together. Just pure happiness of being themselves and love the deeper meaning of how they sleep together cause it makes a lot of sense. I love these boys so much ;-; Also hate them cause i want this lol
Nice intro, I like it 😊 the episode reminds me when I was meet my Dad in France and told him I'm gay, he stand up and leave 😢 but Nick's Dad is so boring. Nick, he does all the talking
Sending Nick Nelson hugs!
@@elisabethbauman6190 thx 🙏🏼
OK, I really want to know what happened when the teachers went back to the room with their snacks. How awkward was that evening and was this Mr. Farouk coming out to Mr. Ajayi or did he know/suspect prior to this? Ben got his butt handed to him I would think that it would be a pity invite? Thank you for pointing out the similarities of the Isaac/James kiss scene to Nick/Charlie kiss scene. So was Nick the "boyfriend" that caused the distance between Sahar and Imogen or was Nick a rebound? Isaac needs to read Kid One worse than he read Harry.
Sahar said Imogen got a boyfriend "last year" and stopped texting her. She asked Nick out on a date in April of this year (less than 3 months prior), so it would have been someone different.
Think they are all wearing green cuz blue + yelllow = Green/ blue = Nick ,Yellow = Charlie Seeing its the Friends group
Love your commentary as always. I always have so many thoughts , i never know where to start lol
1 I liked that Stephane put some money on the table at least, but yeah, the rest of this encounter and the next are tragic. (I do appreciate that he is a rotten parent without being homophobic though, it feels a breath of fresh air in a way. No matter how much my heart aches for Nick, and to some extent, even David.)
2 I feel Ben was there cuz nobody really knows the extent of his douchebaggery, and he went straight back to I don't know Charlie, after the publicity Imogene created.
3 I agree that Harry figured out there was something between Nick and Charlie, the way he asked for both of them. I think a lot more people knew without being told 1 on 1. Sahar (you fell onto your bf, so it's all good), James (nice to hang out with other gay people), some people in the spin the bottle circle (i knew it).
4 if you play truth or dare, chances are you will have to kiss someone, so maybe Nick and Charlie shouldn't have played lol
5 I couldn't agree more with the sex talk, I.e. them agreeing that they are not ready yet. Wtf is happening in the world when we must defend 15-year-olds not being ready? Have we completely lost any semblance of common sense? Outrageous. People really need to stop watching TV and start looking into the real world. 😒 can you tell this really upsets me? 😡 grrr
Anyhoo, I also agree that all the eps are getting better and better. I feel almost inclined to think that s3 will not only be heartache.... fingers crossed they'll find this amazing balance and all the lovely moments from this season again next year.
lol. While asking for the call wouldn't surprise me, I think he's more negligent than outright hostile towards his son.
I think I heard the 'Where's Waldo' was Tobie's idea, but not sure.
The scene between Isaac and James is so, so sad. Ugh! You feel terrible for them both. James rejected, thinking it's his fault. Isaac wanting to like James, wanting it to work, it just doesn't. Then thinking there's something wrong with him because he doesn't feel anything back. Ugh!
LOL. Let's try not to think about the other bed, ok?
Another great video! It is absolutely worth the wait. I know it's tough on you but I love the long, in depth analysis.
Nicks fathers behaviour reminds me of people who remarry and their new spouse doesn’t want their partners old life to have anything to do with their new life. The fathers new wife is probably the reason Nick and David don’t get to see their father, their father doesn’t have the balls to stand up to her and say my kids are part of the package if you want to be with me.
I thought that at first, too, but it seems like if it was coming mostly from the new partner, that the dad would at least make the most of the moments he gets alone with Nick. He's awkward and distant and fumblingly detached even when they're alone in the hallway in Ep 7. It's true, the new partner's feelings might have augmented that initial distance, but by this time, Stephane no longer feels the connection that he might have felt once, if ever.
I have many disparate thoughts, so I am going to break them up into short stories instead of posting an essay.
One pairing I am disappointed we don't get is a scene with Elle and Mr. Ajayi. It seems like he would be an important person in her life, given that we know the Art Room is her Safe Space (S2E7), and given that she says she spent every lunch period in there for months working on a project (from her conversation with Tao in S1E8), and given that Alice confirms that, canonically, Elle met Charlie in the art room during their lunches. I was reminded of that disappointment in this episode because here we see both Elle and Mr. Ajayi together in the same frame for the only time in the teachers' hotel room while Darcy is having her crisis, and that is the closest we ever get to a reunion. After she has been gone for a whole term and he wasn't used to seeing her every day anymore, I wonder how often Mr. Ajayi speculated about how she was doing at Higgs and how he felt about finally seeing her again on this trip. I like to imagine in my head that there was a warm reunion with a heartfelt exchange, and we just didn't see it because there was simply NO time to squeeze in that scene.
**Full disclosure, someone else on a different reaction site's comments section brought this up first, and I just haven't been able to stop thinking about it since.
Oh, now I'm sad about this as well. You're right, it must have happened off screen, otherwise it would be even sadder. :(
Yay for short stories, the new fashion. :)
@elisabethbauman6190 I couldn't find a Harry themed comment of yours under this video, so I'll ask my question randomly under this one: Do you have an opinion on why Harry (and maybe especially his underling that he brings with him to the party's door) are so unbearably smug and over-the-top visibly insincere while apologizing? I don't understand it. I re-read your "Understanding Harry" essays part 1 and 2, but I know you had to cut a lot of the original text, so maybe there's something more in your notes that will help me understand. So far I am thinking it could either be something his character would genuinely choose to do for some reason, OR (and this is what I'm leaning towards) the directing for that scene told them to be so exaggeratedly visibly dishonest that all viewers would unquestioningly and immediately hate them and celebrate Charlie's "No" without the explanation from the comics and without paying much attention. I have admitted before that I actually felt bad for Harry in the comics and I think it was because the comics didn't paint a picture/movie in my head that had the extreme dismissiveness, tone, lighting etc. which the show added to Harry's scene and acting.
@@snoopy_J You make an excellent point, and I really think it comes down to the directing. I, too, felt bad for Harry when I read the scene in the comics. However, when Thom was going through his review of the comics, he pointed out a few subtleties that I had missed that showed the apology scene was supposed to be self-serving and not entirely sincere. In order to get that message across in the show, the acting had to telegraph insincerity. Beyond that, I think the story was supposed to hold Harry up as the quintessential bully who didn’t deserve forgiveness because he didn’t earn it. Harry had more complexity in the show, but he was still the bully archetype, and his character didn’t have an arc that led him to redemption. The show’s message was crafted for bullying victims, so Harry had to stay unworthy to drive that home.
Here’s why I think the apology was not worth considering as genuine:
1) Timing: He tried to come into the party, but it wasn’t until Tara called him out as homophobic did he realize he had to demonstrate that he had turned a new leaf. I’m sure he thought that Nick and Charlie had noticed he stood up for them at the Eiffel Tower, and that, combined with his words, would be enough to show he was changed. He hoped that would be sufficient to remove the lingering label of homophobe and let him access the party. HOWEVER, if he had been genuinely sincere, he would have approached them privately at a time when there wasn’t a big audience and a payoff at the end and just said some words that spoke to his change of heart.
2) Lack of specificity: Harry has a much bigger role in the show and a lot more interactions with Charlie and Tao. In the comics, Harry apologized for his behavior at the cinema, and that was kind of vague, but not as vague as the show apology. He said in the show that he had “said some pretty homophobic stuff in the past” and he feels like he knows better now and will never do it again. He doesn’t acknowledge how his words hurt people or take responsibility for their consequences. It doesn’t seem like he genuinely understands the implications of having said homophobic things in the first place, and so promising not to say them is a performance rather than an actual commitment. Also, He doesn’t acknowledge the times he threw stuff at Charlie and Tao or any of the unkind stuff he said/did at rugby. He didn’t apologize for making Charlie the object of vocal speculation just the previous day to make him uncomfortable, which wasn’t actually specifically homophobic. He’s got in his mind that apologizing for saying homophobic things is what is needed here because that’s the issue that Tara raised. It doesn’t touch on any of his other bullying tactics and doesn’t do anything to make anyone think he’s genuinely planning to stop being a bully.
3) Delivery: As I mentioned, Harry delivers his apology to Nick and barely looks at Charlie. He feels like in order to be admitted to the party, he has to convince Tara he’s not a homophobe, and to do that, he has to get forgiveness from someone Tara cares about. He knows that Tara and Nick have a special connection, and since he and Nick also have a special connection, he thinks he can persuade Nick into granting the needed forgiveness. He doesn’t give Charlie much thought, as he doesn’t see him as that influential. I don’t want to understate Harry’s desire for genuine reconciliation with Nick in this moment as well, but the timing has kind of forced his hand. If Harry had more time and the opportunity to approach Nick privately, he might have been able to navigate a dialogue that touched on more meaningful aspects of an apology, but in front of these people without much time to think things through, he didn’t have that many components to put together to make an apology substantive. I am confident that Nick still wouldn’t have forgiven him completely, but that dialogue could have given Harry some feedback that led to real behavior change and self-reflection. Since this apology went so badly, Harry doesn’t see hope in putting together a different one for later, which is kind of sad, because I would have been here for communication guru Nick giving some choice words that actually got through to Harry and gave him some direction on how to keep being popular using kindness instead of meanness.
4) Lack of understanding: Harry doesn’t really understand exactly what he did wrong. I already touched on this, but it’s worth reiterating. Harry needs someone to sit him down and talk him through all of his bad behavior and why it sucks, not just “saying homophobic stuff.” He needs more drilling about basic human empathy and leading by example. He doesn’t even understand the grief he caused enough to articulate a meaningful apology, so nobody has faith that it will lead to lasting behavior change. In fact, if he was admitted to the party, it would just be a matter of time before he said something non-homophobic that upset someone and made them want to leave his presence. He’s just doesn’t get it, and that shows in his posture and tone of voice.
So yeah, I think the choice of the creative team here to show Harry providing an unsatisfying apology was for the purpose of modeling to victims of bullying an appropriate response and validating to them that they don’t owe anything to people who hurt them. The over-the-top insincerity was supposed to make it more black and white that rejecting the apology was ok and to provide catharsis to people who saw their own bullies in Harry.
From the tons of back and forth I have read about people’s reactions to the Ben apology, I can see the utility of having kept the Harry apology insincere and easy to dismiss.
I hope I addressed what you wanted me to address. I am certainly open to your thoughts on the matter. Do you think the scene would have been better if it had been done differently? What changes would you have made and why?
@@elisabethbauman6190 Thank you for explaining all that! I relate to the part where Harry "just doesn't get it" and needs a communication guru to walk him through the basics! This was very helpful and answered all my questions. 💜
Omg is that an avatar the last air bender shirt?!?! I love that
It is! 😃
@@thom_is_transI love that show and I am so jealous
Regarding Harry -- at this point in the story, for me, it's definitely more about Harry seeing his social stock drop as Sai, Christian and Otis (and maybe others) drift away from him and toward Nick & Charlie. Harry was able to coast on the lavish parties he threw, but now that isn't enough anymore to hold oln to his audience. He hasn't quite figured out yet that he needs to, y'know, become a slightly better person -- that seems to happen later, the way he's portrayed in the Nick & Charlie novella. For now, Harry is grasping, trying to do things that he thinks will "work" in bringing the lads back under his thrall. Much like Ben will attempt... never mind, spoilers, as River Song says... 😉
That’s definitely how I see Harry’s situation, too.
Just rewatching HS (you know, as we do) and I'm pretty sure Kid 1 is wearing a tux and dancing with a girl (just as we walk into the gym for our first look at prom, kinda front and center.) I wonder if having this character is supposed to help us open a conversation about the toxicity we sometimes see within the queer community itself.
Heartstopper University ❤❤❤
I found it, I found the return of the leaves on the shelves, it's this episode. 🥵 Sorry for the delay!
10:50 😂😂😂 Same!
As for Isaac and James scene in the hallway....the color in this hall is not that blue/grey lighting, so it is meant to be hopeful, but not color saturated...the mirroring of Nick and Charlie's kissing scene is awkward and rushed, without the cautious and choreographed banter and reactions...Charlie was scared when he asked his questions leading up to the kiss...Isaac was desperate to get to what he needed to answer his questions of why he doesn't feel what other's do romantically.
15:11 😂😂😂😂
hi i love your reaction on this episode i dont realy like nick dad its look that he doesnt care for him and nick try so hard but it feel like his dad only care for him self and in truth and dare to me i think nick was force to came out because u can see on his face that he feel so up seting that he letting char down but we all know he hasnt and char do understand and he will be there for nick and he will be beside him all the step of the way and i love everything in this episode but iam not sure if iam right about nick was force to came out and and i love how there friends stand up for them nick and char got a very strong support from there friends it nice to see that and i love the teaches they are so cuite together and i cant waite to see more of them and all cast what they going to do next and after truth and dare i love the play saide of nick and char and how they are in bed talking and holding each other its so beautiful to watch just love it
If Imogen and Sahar become a couple, do we have to stop making ally jokes?
"She's such a good ally that she's even part of the community" is a pretty good ally joke that would still be suitable I think 🤔
It breaks my heart to see how Stephane treats Nick. He desperately wants any love and attention from his father and is devastated when he gets nothing. And the end, when daddy has to run is just a slap in the face. What a cold, cruel father.
I'm an older guy but loved this. The story, the implementation, the acting was so superb. It shows, since great actors like Olivia Coleman and the French actor who plays Nick's dad agee to act in it. I'm sure that they made next nothing for their roles. Taylor Swift agreed to let them use one of her songs for free. People know quality and the impact this show has on so many people. It is a true labor of love.
PS. Your constant interruptions with commentary every 5 to 10 seconds feels extermely overdone.
I moustache you a question
I am Isaac in so many ways