I love how Isaac just tells Harry off in no uncertain terms - all the while filling in the worksheet without missing a beat! Next-level multitasking!!!
Ben absolutely views a BF/GF, whether it's Charlie or Imogen, as an accessory. He doesn't grasp that Charlie is a person in his own right, who left him of his own free will
30:24 - Apparently it’s not specifically Imogen who’s afraid of heights, but the actor Rhea who is afraid of heights. She says so in one of the magazine cover interviews with all the girls, how she was terrified of going up there and how they had to try and talk her through it. I guess that’s just part of Imogen’s character now as a result, lol.
On Nick being some distance away from Charlie, and Charlie calling out to him so quietly: I think it's worth saying that this scene happens from Charlie's point-of-view, and I think Nick being so far away is more supposed to be symbolic of Charlie getting tunnel-vision than as big a distance as it is. From a purely logistical perspective, Nick doesn't really rush forward to catch Charlie, he only really steps, and there's a significant shortening of that gap between the Charlie POV shot and the wider shot of Nick catching him. I think Charlie is only a step or two away, rather than the several metres it looks like from his POV.
Ok, here it is, as promised! Understanding Harry Greene, Part Two: The Role of Status and Desirability As a continuation of my previous discussion (found as a comment under Thom’s analysis of Season 2, Episode 3: Promise), here I will attempt to explain Harry’s change in behavior toward Nick and Charlie and how that is consistent with his underlying values. First, here are the answers to the questions I teased in Part One: A. "Why does Harry care so much about Nick's love life?” Three main reasons: 1) Harry thinks he and Nick are good friends, and that’s what friends do. Tara and Darcy were every bit as invested in Elle’s love life, and they had known her for a fraction of the time. 2) As a de facto member of Harry’s clique, Nick is supposed to contribute to its cache by dating and showing the world that its members are desirable. Harry leans on him extra hard to make progress because he’s the one who has gotten the most interest from the ladies. 3) Nick is a pioneer in the world of girls, being the first to garner their interest, and he is expected to gain experience and report back his findings. Harry doesn’t know that Nick is not the kind of guy to kiss and tell, and he is absolutely expecting Nick to share all the sordid details of whatever progress he made with any conquest. By dropping the ball and being “proper thick about girls,” he’s postponing the opportunity for Harry and the boys to live and learn vicariously. B. “Why does Harry keep harping on the others for not bringing girls when he never brings one?” It’s because it’s not his job. He’s done his job, and he’s calling them out for failing to do theirs. As discussed in Part One, in addition to valuing his friendship with Nick, Harry highly values attention, status, and influence. Most of his decisions are based on what will increase the social standing of himself and the clique of year 11s he leads, which include a mix of rugby lads, Truham elites, and girls from Higgs. The two main ways to elevate the status of group are to keep its members at the top of the pecking order and to showcase the perks of being a member of the group, which include access to girls (especially important at an all-boys school). Harry has put in the work to put his clique at the top of the pecking order. Although he does enjoy picking on people and is energized by getting a laugh from his mates, his bullying is actually strategic. In the mornings and afternoons, the group takes up their post at the school entrance, putting them in tactical position to be metaphorical gatekeepers to secondary school society. He also leads his entourage around the schoolyard during lunch, keeping the membership visible and choosing to verbally taunt and “chuck stuff” at undesirables to keep them in their place. Harry also throws lavish parties that people line up to get into. Harry has put in his due toward raising the profile of the clique and giving it resources; now it’s the members’ turn to increase the group’s cache by drawing cool people. Bringing girls into the group is the ultimate status boost, and having members actually dating girls is a double win, as having members being seen as desirable is key to elevating the group’s status. Harry has been focused on empire building, but if he did put his mind to getting his own girl, it would not let everyone else off the hook. Harry considers himself a prince among lords, and Nick is his most favored duke. Nick is effortlessly cool, and without any of Harry’s advantages, Nick has managed to gain the respect of his rugby teammates to become team captain and has attracted the attention of “two proper-fit girls.” Because people like being around Nick, having Nick as part of the group adds to its pull. Prince Harry brings the wealth, privilege, and prestige, and the members of his court who are dependent upon the prince’s favor are supposed to do their part to glorify the principality. In another age, he might have said to Nick, “I’ll give you support from the royal coffers and the royal army if you go over the river and capture lands to expand the realm.” In today’s world, he’s expecting Nick to use his advantages to attract cool people, as the people with whom members associate reflect on the group. By forfeiting his chances to hang out with girls and choosing instead to hang out with Charlie, a “borderline outcast” who comes with the social stigma of being openly gay, Nick’s behavior becomes highly problematic. Harry starts being more invested in Nick’s decisions than ever, but all of his attempts to separate Nick from Charlie backfire, and by the bonfire scene in Season 2, Harry really starts to understand that he might have lost Nick to Charlie. In Paris, not only is Nick doing just fine hanging with Charlie, but he’s managed to become popular in a group that represents about 20% of the students on the trip, effectively become a competing clique. Harry sees that, in this context, Charlie isn’t actually social poison, and even both of the girls Harry wanted in his group, Tara and Imogen, want to hang out with them. When Ben blew it with Imogen at the dinner, and Harry’s clique lost Imogen to Charlie’s group, Harry feels that as a big blow. Then, much to his surprise, Harry learns that Charlie gets a hickey, which is indisputable evidence of his desirability. Harry is sincere in his statement, “Something to be proud of, isn’t it? Getting some action.” If he or one of his boys had achieved that, he’d be elated for what it did for their cache. His attention and his coarse manner make Charlie uncomfortable, much to Harry’s delight, but they come from a place of actual admiration. By the time Nick responds to his mate’s taunt at the Eiffel Tower, Harry has put the pieces together and figured out it was Nick who gave Charlie the hickey. His perspective has shifted, since he’s observed that being queer hasn’t turned out to be as socially ruinous as Harry feared, and the members of Charlie’s clique are all more advanced in the dating realm than any of his mates. It also dawns on him that Nick was upset about his homophobic remarks because he would have taken them personally, and he sees where he seriously messed up (I honestly think that here Isaac’s iconic rebuke managed to wriggle its way through to him). From that point he decides to make amends with Nick, first by cutting off his mate’s teasing at the Eiffel Tower and then by coming to Tara’s party with an apology. Note that when he requests to be given a chance to apologize, he asks to speak with Nick and Charlie, completely ignoring Tao, who was also a subject of his bullying. Although Charlie is the one who is openly gay and was ostensibly hurt by his homophobic remarks, in Harry’s mind, it’s really Nick he needs to persuade to forgive him. Observing Harry’s eyeline carefully during his apology, one sees he directs almost his entire speech to Nick. He again misjudged the situation, not realizing that making redress with Charlie was the only way back into Nick’s good graces. Having failed to earn Charlie’s forgiveness, and the door slams on his reconciliation with Nick once and for all. When Harry’s group encounters the couple at Prom, Nick has already come out on Instagram, and Harry has come to terms with the fact that he has lost Nick to Charlie for good. He has also come to terms with the idea that being gay is not social suicide, and that being homophobic in front of people won’t serve him anymore. Now he thinks of Nick as an alumnus of their group, so when his entourage passes Nick and Charlie by the photo station, he holds Nick up as an example. “I can’t believe that Nick’s showing off his boyfriend, but none of you managed to bring a girl!” Here he is implicitly acknowledging that Nick has achieved what Harry always wanted all of his group’s members to achieve, and now the remaining members are being chastised for falling short. I hope this perspective was helpful in terms of explaining the evolution of Harry’s response to Nick and Charlie’s developing relationship, which I intended to keep consistent with what we learn about their dynamic with Harry in the novella, “Nick and Charlie.” Again, I have detailed notes if anyone wants to drill down on any of my points. Also, I might excerpt some lines from here to add as separate comments for the benefit of people who have chosen not to read all the way through this. Thank you for coming to my TED talk, and I will now cleanse my palate by watching some adorable Nick and Charlie moments!
Thank you for sharing your essay's second installment with us! I actually was also thinking that the dramatic shift in Harry's behavior had to do with him figuring out the truth of what's going on with Nick and Charlie, something I'll probably say more about later. In any case, thank you for the essay - it gets full marks, of course, and a gold star!
Omg that's amazing, it makes so much sense and yet I never thought about it this way! Thank you for working so hard to make it fit into comments section length, and yes, please, do take parts of it to people who might be interested in the question of "wtf is Harry trying to do"! There's a lot of comments, not everyone will even scroll through, let alone read all of them.
I daressy Harry's strategy might have sth to do with his home, namely his rich father's corporate mindset. Thus Harry is more of a chairman than a prince. The goals and means remain the same. It's all about branding, good publicity, accumulating assets, remaining in control.
THANK YOU for your talk about mental health issues. The mentioning of the bravery of people made me cry. I've been suffering from depression basically my whole life, just as the majority of my family has. And like you said I blame myself for being too weak to overcome it, too lazy to do certain things (like term papers) or get my life "in order". Your words really mean a lot to me! The most messed up thing I learned about my mental health issues is that they actually make me a completely different person. I am very outgoing, love being with people, love being active and creative and sharing my opinions. My mental health issues prevent me from being all that. I can see the exact same thing in Charlie. We see how strong and joyful a person he can be. Sometimes you get the impression of seeing two different Charli Springs. That might be projection on my part, but it's hearrbreaking anyway. All the best to you! And to anyone suffering, YOU ARE NOT ALONE!
1:12:16 "He's not the most reliable." That really got to me. I've been saying the same thing about my own father for 30+ years, so hearing someone saying those exact words out loud is just...OUCH!
It's probably not true but I would have liked to think that Elle's painting was in part also inspired by Tao's painting from season one. It also showed the friend group together, and while they were outside (I think he was tasked to draw a landscape) in the painting, not inside like the people in the museum piece, the painting itself was lying in the art room, their safe space that will be depicted in Elle's painting in the end. I wonder if she's thinking about it here in the museum, when she's inspired.
Of course, Nick does call Charlie “mon amour,” “my love”:soon after Nick comes to saying I love you. Your reviews are vert insightful and helpful in recognizing many of the more subtle underlying themes.
Ah, I didn't notice the song lyric in the end at the Métro station. 😍 I was busy with reading École du Coeur, which is apparently a station that doesn't exist, and would mean, like, "school of the heart", approximately, and the poster next to it, saying "s'envoler" (to fly off/away/ to take off) with the lovebirds and the leaves. Bringing back to mind Alice's cameo on the train in season one, where there were the same style lovebird posters with "our" lovebirds flying off alone together. I like how at least at this age trains still symbolise some freedom for them.
@@elisabethbauman6190 Despite hearing Thom talk about it for over a year, I still don't even know what symbolism is 😟, so that must be sheer luck, but thank you for the encouragement, it means a lot. 💜
It made me chuckle that they run for the metro from the Louvre, just to then get off at Pont Neuf station a 5 minute walk away (if that), like it would have probably been quicker to just walk 😅
One of the things that I love about this show is how we are constantly learning things about the characters that help explain their previous actions. In season 1, Tao says that he thinks Charlie didn't tell him about Nick because he was afraid he'd say something stupid and accidentally out him to the other boys at school. Not sure about anyone else, but this always struck me as a somewhat tangential and specific thing for Tao to think Charlie would be worried about. Well, now we find out that it was him accidentally outing him last year that led to all the bullying. This makes so much sense as to why Tao would fear the same thing happening with Nick, and also Tao's overprotectiveness and worrying about bullying with Charlie last season. Tao has been haunted by this (accidental) transgression to the point where it has taken over much of his thinking. I think finally telling Charlie, and receiving Charlie's forgiveness and love in response, was really healing for Tao.
Thanks for your honesty and enthusiasm Thom. You’ve created a safe community where we’re actually excited to participate in the Comments section, both here and on Patreon. I’m a big fan of your work 💜
Y'all, I really did collectively write about 2,500 words on the subject of Harry Greene, and yet did not mention the fact that the day after Ben and Imogen had the argument in the restaurant, Harry has Imogen sitting next to him on the bus, and Ben has to find another seat. Harry's a dick to many people, but he wants Imogen to know that she's still part a valued part of their group, even though she was at odds with Ben. I thought that was noteworthy.
Thom, thank you for your analysis and your warmth. It's so lovely to interact with you in this funny parasocial way -- your intellect and your kindness radiate through the screen!
I think Tao is so dramatic about the hickey because, as I mentioned on the last video, I think he took Isaac on his vending machine run to extend an olive branch to Nick in the form of private time with Charlie. I think he sees himself as partly responsible with the other two for the teasing and attention Charlie's going to get, and he tries to distance himself when he blames Nick fully at breakfast.
I always love your detailed discussions. Regarding episode 8, I would totally watch a separate in-depth video of your thoughts on the last scene. If you're struggling with long videos, maybe you could do episode 8 up until that point and then a separate video dedicated to that?
@41:15 I regret to inform you this is not the Louvre, and those people were probably not VFX’d in lol. They were extremely limited with the amount of people who were allowed to bring into the Louvre, as well as time, so most of the “Louvre” scenes were shot elsewhere. The Tao/Elle scenes and the Nick and Charlie vs security guard scenes were actually filmed there (the Mona Lisa may have been a green screen shot). This is the National Gallery in London I think. I was flabbergasted when I saw that clip where Joe said the people were fake, because that would have been an extremely complicated and expensive shot. When I saw the full scene of this gallery in the show, I knew there was almost no way those people weren’t really there. With that camera move in the first shot, the interactions with the ground, passing behind and in front of our subjects, and how close they were to the camera, it would have been an absurdly complex shot for very little reason. Would’ve made way more sense just to film somewhere else with real extras. Which they did. I think what probably happened is that Joe was talking about the fake people in the background of his and Kit’s security guard scene. But the Netflix social media editors didn’t know which scenes were shot in the Louvre, and they probably have no grasp of that level of VFX, so they assumed it was all shot there and threw in that shot because it looked impressive. Which it would’ve been. If it had been VFX lol.
The red gallery where Charlie feints, and the portrait of James I that Mr Farouk poses with, are both in Dulwich Picture Gallery in London, so they probably were legit extras or members of the crew posing as extras. I think you're right, the fake people Joe was mentioning were in the sculpture gallery where Nick phones his dad. That scene is definitely the Louvre, and prior to Nick's phone call there are loads of tiny people milling around on the balconies in the background. Then after Nick & Charlie get shouted at and run away, they've all magically vanished
This is a little thing that just struck me. The parallel between Tara and Darcy unintentionally giving Nick the confidence and inspiration to kiss Charlie in S1E3 and then Nick giving the inspiration to Elle to go off with Tao and kiss him in the Louvre.
29:51 To add, the way Ben talks about Charlie here (and at other points), is more like a possession rather than a person (and last I checked Ben, you couldn’t steal a person).
When I was in middle school in 7th grade I think it was, I had to do the mile along with the rest of my class and when I had just finished I went to my friends and suddenly everything started to turn white. I knew I was dehydrated so I sat on the floor cause I wasn't feeling well. When I sat on the floor I knew I was doing the right thing cause if I didn't I would have passed out.
I think that maybe David is the way he is because he's trying to win his absent Dad's love. And Nick is as he is because, being younger when the parents split up, though he misses his Dad, his primary relationship is with his Mum, who is great.
Nobody ever talks about the Darcy Ben paralells in this season. So thank you! And the guy who asks Nick about the hickey was actually in the back ground in Season 1 aswell mostly with the rugby lads oudside the gate but also in Charlie's Math(s) class when the teacher reminds them of Sports day at the beginning of Ep 8.
I think I remember someone saying that in actuality the café where they go to meet Nick’s father is only a five minute walk from the Louvre. So they wouldn’t actually have to take a train at all. But from a storytelling perspective, it’s so much more effective to have them take the train.
I thought I saw/read that the cafe scene was shot in the UK. It would make sense if they only had the actor for a day or two (much like Olivia C during the first season). Also some of the museum gallery scenes might have been shot in the UK as well?
@@dank4055 The cafe seen with Nick's dad was shot in France, the filming of it was actually what made people realize they were filming season 2, cause they filmed it on the street. Also, the actor who plays Nick's dad is a famous French actor, so it made sense for him to be in France for filming. He probably had to travel to the UK for the dinner scenes.
RE: The Eiffel Tower stairs via Google- While the Tower has a total of 1,665 steps from the ground to the top, you can only climb 674 of them, from the ground to the second floor (327, then 347 steps). You cannot take the stairs all the way to the top from the second floor, as this section is not open to the public for safety reasons.
When you were “ranting” over Nick’s conversation with Charlie about his not eating, I suddenly thought that it could be summed up as “Nick’s good at the middle ground”.
The essay length section of my comment for this video will be dedicated entirely to the moment Nick and Charlie run up the Eiffel Tower while the amazing Christine and the Queens song "Doesn't Matter (Voleur de Soliel)" plays in the background. "Voleur de Soliel" roughly translates to "sun thief," which pertains to the bridge of the song, which, conveniently, is the part of the song playing during this scene. The song as a whole is quite dark, dealing with nihilism, despair, and self-destruction, and the lyrics are kind of talk-sung in a lower register. But then this soaring, melodic, harmonic, and frankly gorgeous bridge happens, and the tone shifts entirely. The bridge encourages the subject to grab hold of the sun, to steal the sun, to save the sun. Given the darkness of the song, I interpret this sudden splash of brilliant joy as a directive to survive the dark moments. Nick and Charlie are in Paris, in love, and generally happy, but they are still being tested today as you point out. Charlie has been tortured this whole season with the responsibility of protecting Nick through his coming out, and is facing a fresh round of derision about the hickey. Nick is feeling a lot of guilt about what Charlie is going through with the hickey, and has just been the recipient of Ben's bile and aggression. But once they are finished with the non-Eiffel Tower related Eiffel Tower worksheets, they make sure they are the first on the stairs, and run together hand in hand, far above anyone who might see. They run upwards, towards the SUN, STEALING this moment of joy, while Christine implores us to steal the sun. Tiny moment, less than a minute of montage, but the moment really hit me as beautiful. And when I listened to this song back in isolation, it struck me how fitting it was. Another small thing, we had a moment of Nick being profound in Episode 5 of Season 1, and we get the same in Season 5 of Season 2. Wonderful video as usual Thom! Your analysis remains my favourite and is always worth the wait! Plus, the longer you take, the longer Heartstopper season gets to last before the inevitable wait. (Although! It is strongly rumoured that production for Season 3 will begin in October.)
Oh, thank you SO much for sharing your insight about the song. That makes me want to go find the lyrics! Your interpretation resonates with me, and I really appreciate your sharing it.
Interesting fact that I have mentioned on other reaction sites because it's the only interesting fact that I have, lol; Not only are the people milling around in the Louvre fake but also most of the scenes supposedly in the louvre are fake Louvres. Very few scenes were filmed in the Louvre because of time restrictions so most of the art gallery scenes were filmed in The National Gallery and The National Portrait Gallery and I've been told that the fainting scenes were filmed at the Dulwich Picture Gallery all of which are situated in London. in fact if you look hard enough you will see that a lot of signs on the gallery walls are in English. 😀
Great video as always. Thank you Thom ❤ The situation at the end, gets me every time, so wonderful 🩷 I just saw a clip at tiktok that the padlock is still at the bridge in Paris.
@@thom_is_trans I vaguely remember having the ability to "cut it out for everyone's general well-being." I seem to have misplaced it. It must be lying around here somewhere.
There is a quick glance that Mr. Ajayi gives Mr. Farouk after the fist bump that can be read as another subtle secondary plot point that gets sprinkled into the season. Also I think there were some cast members who are scared of heights so Imogen's reaction to the climb might also be Rhea's and the reason we don't see much of Sahar on the tower.
WAIT, I HAVE A QUESTION! In this episode, Ben tells Nick that “You came along, and you stole him from me. Charlie really liked me until you got in his head.” Given that Charlie broke up with Ben during their first week of class after the winter break (Thurs, Jan 7?), and given that Charlie didn’t know Nick before Monday, Jan 4 when he was put into his new form group, does that mean that Ben thinks Nick seduced Charlie THAT WEEK? Is it possible that Ben is looking back on the time he ran into Nick and Charlie walking down the Maths corridor side-by-side and pinpointing that encounter as the moment it all went sideways?? If so, that’s kinda crazy, because I feel like that’s what really happened. Charlie had a raging crush on Nick in the beginning but felt like he was already tied to Ben, and he was ok with that until he got a taste of being noticed by a cute boy who would actually say hi to him in the hallways and be openly friendly instead of pretending he didn’t even know he existed. That moment when Nick drew a smiley face on his hand and left his mark in front of dozens of students was immediately followed by Ben snapping at him for saying hi to him when Ben wasn’t supposed to know him. That was the beginning of the disenchantment, which was hastened considerably by Ben’s empty apology for “ignoring” him and then by openly kissing a girl while treating Charlie like a side piece. I wonder if, in Ben’s revisionist history, he goes back to the memories of that week and conjures some distorted vision of events in which Nick is the instigator who orchestrated that encounter or whether he has completely fabricated a different memory to mark the turning point where Ben lost Charlie to Nick. I know it’s dark and dangerous to ask for more, but sometimes I really want to know exactly what the heck Ben is thinking when he says the bonkers things he says. Anyone else have theories or thoughts?
After loosing count of how many times I’ve watched, I just noticed at 1:14:05 that on the wall is an Alice oseman mural(right hand side along the wall of the train station in between the trains passing) of birds and Narlie leaves with the French word s’envoler which thanks to google I learned means to fly away/fly off. I love all of the minute details especially since it’s a blink and you’ll miss it moment.
Why the show lends itself to rewatching and constant fan engagement. Having read, “I was Born This Way” and seeing Alice’s take on fandoms, I think Alice has become expert at sprinkling in easter eggs for fans to find.
Amazing review, as always! You really picked up on almost every detail. 👏 About Tara "pressuring" Darcy into saying I love you back: I don't think that's why Tara kept bringing up the subject with Darcy. It's okay to not be ready to say I love you back, that's natural. What is a bad sign though is avoiding the subject completely and constantly deflecting. I think right off the bat Tara realized there's something up with Darcy, something that's troubling her and that she's not telling Tara. I see it more as concern for Darcy and as Tara trying to get Darcy to open up to her, and not as her trying to get Darcy to reciprocate. And it's sort of confirmed during her conversation with Nick at prom. I agree with you, I also wish that Nick had corrected Ben after he assumed Nick was the one who told Imogen about him and Charlie. It would have been a nice echo to Charlie's "except I wouldn't do that, because I'm a decent person" in S1E8, showing Ben that everyone is not as shitty as he is. Also, your whole analysis of Ben's character is ON POINT. Despite my initial complaints about him being around too much in S2, I really think he's a complex antagonist and offers an interesting parallel to Nick. In S1, Nick was the one who could not keep up with Charlie while running up the stairs at Harry's party. It breaks my heart that at the Eiffel tower, it's the other way around and Nick almost has to drag Charlie up the stairs 😟 Rhea Norwood said in her Cosmopolitan magazine interview that she is very very afraid of heights and had a really bad time filming at the Eiffel tower. Looks like it's Rhea's real actual fear that we see on Imogen in that scene. 😟 "You do know it was me, right?" flirty Nick is aaaaaaaaaaaah 😵 I went on a trip to Paris when I was 16. The day I visited the Louvre, the Italian painters section was closed because of a strike or something. So I didn't get to see the Mona Lisa. I was very disapointed at the time. I felt better once I found out that I actually hadn't missed out on too much haha. There is much more impressive stuff to see at the Louvre in my opinion. I also saw the interview where Joe said the other people in the Louvre were added in post production because they only allowed so many people in for filming. And now I can't unsee it haha. Like, when Charlie faints, they're just standing there minding their business. Realistically, at least a few of them would be concerned and come help. The Nick and Elle interaction in the Louvre. ❤🩹 I think the cut right after Elle first kisses Tao, right before she stands up and says she's sorry, is a bit off. I feel like there's a half second that's missing? I haven't seen anyone comment on that so maybe it's just me? I relate to you yelling when Cavetown started plaing. I yelled at almost all the songs in episode 8. But that is a story for a future reaction 😉Truly an iconic soundtrack. 🙌 Thanks again! Hope you have a lovely evening! 🤗
Thanks for sharing your insights! I agree about Ben. I hate the pall that he casts over the entire season, but he is a complex antagonist who serves a very important purpose, so I can’t bring myself to say he shouldn’t be there. I, too, really wish that Nick had assured Ben that he had not outed him. Ben is so paranoid about being discovered that it warps his behavior. The fear of people knowing hits him like a feral animal, and if he had assurance that his secret would not be weaponized, I think he could focus on trying to pursue growth in one direction instead of spinning and spiraling. The constant dread overtakes his saner moments and undermines his self-reflection, flipping him out his important “I’m a messed up person” moments of introspection and into “other people are ruining my life” moments of externalizing his emotional crisis. The boy needs serious therapy and a feeling of safety in which to grow. I also get what you’re saying about Tara. I think she is more worried about Darcy’s constant deflections, her refusal to open up about her home life, and her inability to connect seriously and talk honestly about deep stuff. She sees Darcy is wearing a mask and won’t even admit it. However, Tara is not great at directing the communication, and by not being direct about what she wants to talk about, she leaves all kinds of room for Darcy to circumvent it. I think Tara wanted to hear “I love you” back, but she also wanted assurance that Darcy really meant it, which she couldn’t have until Darcy was willing to open up to her. Tara needs to have some more time with Nick to strategize about communication, because somehow he gets it.
Another great reaction Thom! If you think about it, along with Nick being able to speak, French, Charlie probably can speak some or a lot of Spanish, like his father and Tao at least understands and probably speaks a lot of Cantonese with his Mum. 😊
Thank you for the great video Thom! I really enjoyed your analysis and hearing what you have to say, it made me realise things I didn’t think about before. ❤️ I think in the shot where Charlie is feeing faint/dizzy and his vision going blurry while sitting down, it’s unrealistic that he then hops up without a wobble and is on his way - I think it would have been good to show Charlie having a wobble and grabbing onto Nick for support, and to see more concern from Nick at that point, foreshadowing to the characters (not just the viewer) whats about to come. Also as you already mentioned, with the fainting scene, it was odd to have a lovey dovey scene with Tao and Elle straight after, I think it would have been good to see more verbal concern expressed from the other characters, but then also to show Tao’s reaction (like in the comics) to finding out about Charlie bc of how protective Tao is over Charlie.
Tao's "how dare you put a hickey on my son's neck you deviant" look will never not be funny :D (I feel like this is one of the scenes Kit mentioned where they has an unstoppable fit of laughter) and I also liked Tao/Charlie interaction regarding him accidentally outing Charlie, but I have a feeling that had Nick been outed because of Tao loudly discussing the hickey at the breakfast table he would be less understanding, given his over-protectiveness over Nick in every aspect. Btw Ben was also talking about Nick and Charlie and the hickey quite loudly and he was surrounded by the entire class, so I'm pretty surprised no one was eavesdropping on their conversation as well, because these people clearly love relationship drama, especially when it concerns Charlie for whatever reason. And I also think that Nick does feel a tiny bit of empathy towards Ben because even though he hates him he is the kind of guy who is trying to find the good in people. Also props to Charlie for actually telling Nick he felt like he was about to pass out, as we know he doesn't want Nick to see him as weak. I got into a similar situation about a month ago due to extreme heat - I suddenly got dizzy, nauseous, cold-sweaty and I genuinely thought I was going to just flop on the floor whilst repeatedly telling my mom sitting next to me that I'm fine. And I love Nick for addressing Charlie's issue so calmly, although Charlie does seem very much alarmed and guilty at first and the fact that he's not preaching like "But you have to eat", but instead saying okay, I may not understand, but I can do this, this and this, would that help you? And the scene with the phone call is one of my favorites in the comics as well, especially the part where Charlie realizes that Nick has some issues he's trying to hide from him in order not to be a nuissance and he's like yeah, you're clearly not okay with this situation at all. but I'm here to listen just like you always listen to me. Btw regarding this scene I also realized that Charlie quite often says Nick (playfully) that he's a "giant rugby idiot" or "a dick", but Nick never says anything like this to Charlie, because he treasures and admires him so much that these words never even cross his mind. I don't think he's worried that he'd take then literally, but I find it interesting. :) Oh God, I feel like my comments are also getting longer and longer and judging by my feelings about the E8 finale I'm heading toward an essay as well, so sorry beforehands :D
Loved the intro when you previewed it, love it here. I absolutely LOVE Tao's reaction to the hickey. Will plays it fantastically with the look he gives Nick. ♥ Isaac. You tell him! Nick didn't out Ben. But I still do think that, if Charlie gave permission or did it himself, they would be in their rights to out Ben to Imogen in order to warn her about what Ben is capable of. It's for her safety. But of course that's not what happened (though Nick could have done a better job than he did of warning her, heh). Ben is most often compared to Nick. But I love the contrast with Darcy as well. She has issues, and we see it starting to hurt her relationship with Tara, but she never used her home life as an excuse to last out at other people. The heights thing is real. Rhea was very scared. Google says 1,665 stairs but only 674 climbable by the public (half that to the second floor and the rest to as high as tourists can go). Baby Tao does such a great job. The Charlie actor definitely reflect Charlie as well but the Tao actor gets more lines and pulls them off very well. I absolutely love Tao this season. Obviously there are still a few slipups, like in episode 3, but overall he comes so far. And Will does a fantastic job with it. They've all gotten a lot better with their characters this season. I think I've heard they clear the locks every few months, presumably to make room for new ones. She must have gotten that art done and had it approved pretty quick if she didn't end up doing it until after she got back. But yeah, I didn't notice the connection, it's not something most would notice the first time through, but I have heard that idea before and it does seem the intent. I heard most of the Louvre shots are actually from other places. I imagine it's not cheap to film in the Louvre, with many restrictions too. In and out to get the shots they need, like the Mona List. I also love it when different pairings get some scenes together. I hadn't thought of that angle, that after all Tao did to Nick, Nick's the one that gave that little push that finally got them together. Good Nick. Yeah I also found it a little weird that the moment with Tao and Elle that everything's been building to is placed in the middle of Charlie passing out. A bit of whiplash and you can't help thinking that this beautiful thing is happening to them while their best friend is passed out. I think I get what they were going for and wanting to break up the heavy scene but... yeah I don't know if it works. But they're still both great scenes and it doesn't detract too much from that. I can't wait to see what he falls asleep to in season 3, episode 2, lol. Yeah running seems worse than making out on the empty floor, lol. The funny thing is, I think I read in a Reddit topic somebody saying the stations they used as a stand-in are actually nowhere near the Louvre but the café they go to actually is. TV magic. I guess your videos in S3 will break 2 hours, lol. You're right, all the episodes are great and have some great stuff in them. I think the Paris episodes might be the highlight but like, so much great stuff. Love hearing all your thoughts though, even if it means having to wait for you to have time to edit them and such. Take care of yourself. Glad you didn't push yourself last night. Very much looking forward to that episode 8.
The Eiffel Tower has 1,665 steps in total, but you can only climb the 2nd floor, which is 674 steps. If you want to go to the very top, you have to go on the elevator. 2nd floor is 116 meters from the ground.
I believe Charlie finds it relatively easy to be ok with Tao outing him because he is in his 'perfect' phase. He himself feels happy in love and he strives to make everything around him perfect.
Love your analyses Thom! Your read on the stories Ben tells himself felt really on the mark. The projection was off the charts this season! I hate the way Ben talks about Charlie like he's a toy that can be passed back and forth between him and Nick, with no feelings or agency of his own. I think it speaks to what has been at the root of his abuse of Charlie all along, Ben just doesn't see him as a full human being. Did you notice the kid with the buzzcut from Truth or Dare seemingly having a great time in the background when Charlie fainted? I also noticed them at the next table over when Imogen was yelling at Ben about his obsession with Charlie, and laughing along with Harry's crew at the Eiffel Tower when that guy asked Nick about Charlie's hickey. Always at the scene of the crime! #LeaveCharlieAlone
On Nick and Ben being thrown together a lot: for these kinds of things, where they're pulling from an entire year group rather than a specific form or set (broadly: homeroom and class respectively), it was pretty common for them to be distributed based on some form of student ID number sorting, rather than them 'picking' pairs. Ours happened to be broadly alphabetical, but that's not always the case. Our computer login numbers were 5-digit numbers assigned in alphabetical order within the set we were in in Year 7, but that wasn't universal. And our exam numbers (4-digit codes) were similarly assigned alphabetically, but that's also not required and I know some schools use other orderings for that. The exam numbers in particular were used for other purposes, because they functioned as effectively ID numbers (being as they are numbers assigned to every student, and the way our school assigned them meant that the first digit also acted as a proxy for what school year you were in.) I'd often get thrown together with my friend Sam for things that were assigned like that, so it's completely believable to me that Nick and Ben are thrown together like that. It's a practicality thing of picking pairs when you don't actually directly know the students (as Mr Farouk and Mr Ajayi wouldn't necessarily here, Farouk being new, and Ajayi not teaching a core subject that everyone takes.)
Wow, great reaction/commentary. You are the only one I’ve seen so far that caught the two things I noticed, Elle seeing her Lambert project in the painting, and Euros Lyn as the security guard. Good job.
16:16 All these pairing remind me of the writing advice "you can use coincidence to get your characters into trouble, but never out of trouble" it's makes for an interesting scene that shows drama between all our characters instead of just one pairing. It also balances out the tone because Issac and Harry/Imogen and Sahar are a bit funny whereas the other pairs are much more dramatic.
I love this episode so much. I love Charlie's reaction when he heard Nick speak French. This episode actually shows how much Charlie is cared for by Nick. Nick's love for Charlie is showing even though they havent said the words yet.. i cant wait for season three. I thought tje same thing about Nick's dad actively trying to blow off Nick by not answering his calls. I fully believe that Nick's dad cares for him but in his own way. David and Nick are completely different from each other as they are like their parents that raised them. I hope Nick's dad actively tries to keep up with Nick by him being there. Nick doesn't deserve a father like he has gotten. He is definitely lucky to have a mother like Sarah. I think that's why Charlie loves Sarah Nelson so much because she is like Nick as she is warm and friendly to anybody that comes around. Great job on the episode!! I cant wait for the next video. I also can't wait for the comparison video of the comics and tv show
Speaking of "characters who we don't often see interact", one of my disappointments of this season is that we never got to see an interaction between Elle and Mr Ajayi. I mean, I can only assume he would have been her favourite teacher when she was at Truham. This season has so much background chatter that's actually full of gold. I don't often turn on subtitles but I'm really glad I did for this season. Completely agree on the placement of the Elle & Tao kiss scene. I would have moved this scene to a little bit later, immediately following the scene where Charlie and Nick are sitting in the cafeteria and Charlie is eating his sandwich. I feel like it would have been better to give us a little more time to decompress after the eating disorder conversation before the "omg boyfriend speaks French
I also thought the transition from the ED conversation to the Nick Speaking French revelation felt abrupt, I think your proposed reordering would have been perfect!
I second that! Reordering those scenes would have made so much more sense tonally! My biggest disappointment with season two, which is admittedly packed with poignant moments, is that after Ep 1’s ending, there is NEVER a scene filled with lightness and joy that isn’t somehow dimmed by the remnants of worrying about a character or plot line that occurred just prior in the episode. For me, it was like the stress hormones (cortisol) were still circulating in my bloodstream while the feel-good neurotransmitters (like dopamine) were trying to do their thing at the same time. I mean, give a girl some time to recover emotionally, please!
4:54 It wasn’t exactly hickey drama, but the girl in the locker next to me in high school had a “hickey snake” from her right ear, down her neck and toward the left and disappeared under her shirt. Most people were proud of their hickeys.
Another awesome deep dive into the episode! Been enjoying all of your comments/analyses of these episodes. Thanks so much for taking the time to do these. I really appreciated your comments regarding Charlie’s fainting scene and subsequent conversation with Nick over Charlie’s lack of eating. Outstanding comments regarding mental health. Thank you, too, for sharing your personal challenges. Yes, looking forward to hearing what you have to say about that last scene in episode 8 (!), but still have episode 7 to go before then. Question I have about Nick’s dad…. Are Sarah and Stefan divorced? I’m not sure if that’s ever been made clear in the series. I assume they are divorced since he lives in Paris and rarely sees his two kids. Thanks again and looking forward to the next episode reaction/analysis. 👊👊
If they aren't divorced, it would be odd. I don't think they've explicitly confirmed it in the comics or the show, but Stephane mentioned in the show that he's living with a woman in Paris (Nathalie, I think?) that Nick has never met, but is willing to, so if Stephane is not divorced to Sarah it would be kinda awkward. lol... It's not clear if Stephane has married Nathalie, however, if that's the case, then it's terrible that Nick (and presumably David) wasn't even invited to the wedding. Stephane is a real piece of... work...
I don't think this was confirmed, but I think it's pretty likely they were, as they have two children together who are four years apart. Poor Sarah. @@snoopy_J
@@normaladjacentThank you. I see I've been looking at this too much through the lense of the norms I was brought up with and too little through statistics. And poor Sarah either way, definitely! 😓
Yeessss, i've been craving more~ It's so personally infuriating watching Nick's relationship with his father (even in just the text messages to start this episode) cause it hits so close to home with my own "I need relationship validation" issues. While i've worked through quite a bit of it in therapy, it's easy to relate with that feeling of trying so hard to put in the effort to maintain a relationship that is entirely burdened on you. And it feels so refreshing when you relieve that burder as Nick does later. Just gets under my skin cause I know exactly how Nick feels wanting so desperately to have a relationship with his father and constantly being let down. My school never had hickey drama either, which meant I just had other drama like fights and sex-rumors lol Lemme tell you the amount of times i had to step around blood from a fight going to lunch was too many to really be comfortable. I do feel bad for both Charlie and James being the center of attention just for the sole reason they are the only Out Gays in the school. And it is a nice balance of worry mixed in with Charlie's reassurance that despite what might come of the Hickey that Charlie was VERY into what caused it. Which I'd probably feel the same as Nick being someone quite inexperienced if my partner suddenly had a Hickey i'd be like "Huh? Did i do that? How?!" XD And with Tao just barging in, I don't know if it's Wistful Innocence or just an ingrained knowlede that neither of them would be bold enough to attempt something....'scandelous' >__> while within earshot of him and issac. It is defintely good advice regardless to maybe wait for a verbal consent before barging into an occupied bathroom anyway lol I do love Tao's reaction as well XD He's so protective of Charlie and like you said being very "dad" and threatening Charlie. I do wonder if Tao instantly recognizes the repercussions of the HIckey or if he's just upset that Nick did something so lewd to Charlie. And i do hate how weirdly supportive but annoying the entire episode Harry is. Like he's so supportive of Charlie getting some but his attitude and tone make it sound so snarky and rude. I do need to read the other books so I see Harry's development cause I know something happens with him in one of the books but idk how positive it is. I know at least Ben still sucks lol I do heavily agree with you on the point of Nick coming out to take pressure off of Charlie, and if you didnt expand upon it I was going to lol Charlie would feel so bad and spiral much worse if he felt like Nick came out because of him. Because at least later Charlie is under a lot of pressure but he has other people deflecting for him and it's not directly bothering Charlie cause he's just keeping Nick's secret at that point. Right now it's just people poking at Charlie himself having the hickey and teasing him for it. (Also I have been wondering if Mr Farouk heard any of Nick and Ben's conversations during Study Hall cause like...with how quiet it was and the fact he must have been nearby Mr Farouk must have gleaned some of it. Which might be why he punishes Ben so much as well as might be an ulterior motive for him putting them together in solitary to sort things out. Might just be over reaching though) I do love the subtle comparisson of Darcy's reaction to having unaccepting parents to Ben's throughout the series. I cannot wait until episode 7 where we can REALLY get into Ben's revisionist ideas about his relationship with Charlie. It really goes to show that sometimes it is easy to delude yourself when you're trying to escape some kind of pain. Ben is so obsessed with keeping up appearences with everyone and you can kind of see it fall apart once Imogen calls it out. He no longer sits with his 'friends', he is always standing alone when we see him like when he's assigned to work with Nick, and in the next episode he's alone at Tara's party and is only included when it was something the whole room was doing. And metaphorically later on in THE SCENE we see him start out hiding and then coming up alone comparred to Nick and Charlie walking together openly out of an accepting event. Funfact, in one interview with Rhea she admitted that Imogen's fear in the Eiffel Tower scene is her actual fear of heights. She was so terrified of climbing the Eiffel Tower for that scene and I honestly feel for her XD I love everything on the EIffel Tower, it's so cute and wholesome ontop of everything you said about Nick's confidence being so much stronger. It is crazy how seamlessly they added people to the Louvre scenes. Major props to the editing team, which we all love all the little animations so already major love to them. I feel like Nick has been the biggest supporter of Tao and Elle's feelings even with just being subtle and kind to both of them about their emotions. He constantly talks to Tao about Elle, tries to talk to Tao about how it'd feel to have Elle leave for another school cause he knows it must suck, and helps him with his own image issues, and then helps Elle with his Wise quote of her own statement and even offering earlier to let them sit near each other. I do love how well they handled Charlie passing out. Isacc's running is amazing, and i feel like not enough people talk about how quickly he books it (Lol accidental pun) Isaac cares so much for his friends and despite the fact he usually is in his own world, and takes things slow, the moment he realizes what's wrong he shows such determination and worry. Love Isacc's character
Thank you for this in-depth comment and for sharing how these moments touched you, personally. I agree with nearly everything you said. I’m sure if we were in person we could have a two hour discussion, but I can’t think of anything to add here other than to say I think Harry finds it entertaining to make Charlie uncomfortable with his loud attention until it clicks for him that Nick is also involved, at which point he redirects to be respectful to Nick. Since Harry has history with Nick, Nick is a real person to him instead of a plaything, and he doesn’t want to make things worse with Nick.
Yeah i think you're right about him enjoying making Charlie uncomfortable. That's a good point honestly about Harry backing off, cause even looking at season 1 you can see that Harry values Nick's opinion or at least being on good terms with Nick. Either option because everyone just loves Nick, which is understandable lol Looking at it that way it does feel more in his character to take attention away from them cause he wants back into not being ostracized. Maybe it'll lead to accidental growth lol
I need to make #NeCoolPas part of my vocabulary. It's just the best. Let's torture Nick's dad with bad french until he sees his sons would have needed him to take more interest in their lives.
Love the talk between nick and elle and hell yeah Charlie is so triggered from Ben and understand tao he wanna protect Charlie all we now is Charlie don't like in the point of view
Even though the episodes this season are only a few minutes longer, they got so much juicier! Especially 4 and 5. I wonder if that is in part due to the involvement of story consultant Lauren James, who is a YA novellist in her own right and if you haven't read her books, I really recommend them! The Quiet At the End of the World is my favourite so far (+trans rep!) but I really enjoy all of them. I also always use the broken leg analogy when it comes to mental health. But its different too, because my broken leg tells me that I'm better off with a broken leg because it gives me a cool limp, and that a doctor wouldn't believe my leg was broken anyway because it is still attached, so there's no point trying to get any help with the broken leg, and also that if anyone finds out my leg is broken they will think I'm an idiot for breaking it in the first place so it's much better if nobody knows I'm in constant pain... I'm saying all this from a pretty positive mental health state at the moment so I know its all bullshit and that broken legs can't talk, but I equally know that once that leg breaks, damn she's loud and she wants to stick around. I think Nick handles his conversation after Charlie fainting soooo beautifully. Exactly as you said, gentle but direct, and I could really have used someone talking to me that way when I was at my worst. Even so, eating disorders make you lie, and Charlie plays down how bad things are to Nick. He says 'sometimes I'm fine' but I don't think that's been the case since the cinema trip. Even on beach day, he and Nick are sharing fish and chips between them, which is kind of unusual. Other than that, all season we've only seen him apparently eat the ice-cream, and according to Nick, maybe a small breakfast that day. The Oreo chocolate bar gift breaks me everytime - its another tiny way for Charlie to torture himself with food, by buying it and giving it away. We know that when he gets home, even once Nick is out and the stress is apparently over, things don't improve before the end of the season. I'm so glad Charlie is able to say something to Nick because its the start of his road to recovery, but it also makes me so sad that he can't be completely honest here and that Nick doesn't do enough (its not really his fault, how is he supposed to know?). He needs to find Tao, Elle and Isaac, sit them down at the cafe with Charlie and go see his dad by himself. Sorry Nick, Charlie's health comes first! I am looking forward to the 2-3 hour video on Episode 8!
While I obviously don’t enjoy seeing Charlie suffer and feel compelled to hide it, I liked the way this season really showed us Charlie’s tendency to lie about things that are difficult or hurting him, more so than we saw in the comics. It feels a lot more realistic to me, and sets the scene for season 3/volume 4. We saw it with the coursework arc, with Charlie calmly lying to Nick’s face about being done. Though not as serious an issue as his ED obviously, I do think there was more going on there than just procrastination. We’ve also seen it in the way Charlie handles Nick’s coming out. In the comic he tells Nick he’s terrified of the attention he’ll get when they’re out as a couple. He shares none of those worries with Nick in the show. In the comic Charlie opens up about self-harm with basically no nudging, pre-Paris. In the show it takes Nick noticing that Charlie is hiding things and really pushing him to open up. And not to get ahead of ourselves, but I immediately noticed that while in the comic Charlie tells Nick he “hardly ever” self harms, in the show he just says he doesn’t do it at all anymore. I would like to believe he’s being honest, but… *gestures at everything I’ve written above*
I just feel like if I were their classmate I would’ve known it was from Nick they are constantly together Nick be posting pictures of Charlie on his insta they were literally holding hands going up the tower like it was obvious
Nick's aura of being "sporty" and "laddish" was hard to overcome, I suppose. Him and Charlie staring lovingly at each other, holding hands, and hugging like they hadn't seen in each other in decades was just a case of dudes being dudes, bros being bros, mates being mates! (Of course.)
I think it’s funny that NO one assumed it was Tao, and the only one who even had a passing thought it could be Isaac was James. They’ve both been by Charlie’s side for ages, and neither are particularly laddish and beyond credulity, but they were exempted from speculation. Perhaps the thought was that if it was either of them, they would have gotten together sooner, since they’ve known each other for ages?
Forgot to add how gutted I am that we don't get the 'beanie in the swimming pool' line from Darcy, although I get tonally it probably wouldn't fit. But I love that whole exchange so much...
Just some random thought/observations prompted by this episode, only some of which are nit-picky. - Mr. Farouk has the finest-honed gaydar in all the land. Just look at the precision with which he pairs up the queer kids on this trip: the two gay boys? Check. The bi boys? Check. The bi(?) girls? Also check. The lesbians? Yep, check again. The aro(?)/ace kid and the incel? Meh, close enough 😋. - For a year and a half people have been confidently saying that Tao felt guilty about outing Charlie, and this has upset me greatly because they were Wrong on the Internet about it all that time. I honestly don't know how I feel about them now having been made retroactively right. - Nick and Charlie consistently act suspiciously couply in front of Sahar without acknowledging that they have not officially come out to her. I don't know if this says that they're just instantly comfortable around her because she comes to the group via Tara, Darcy, and Elle or if they just generally don't notice her. - The dates. THE DATES!!!!! in this season hurt my soul. I can tell you to within a couple of days exactly what day/date almost any given scene in season 1 took place. And now not only can none of the dates seen on screen in this season not have taken place in the same year as season 1, some of them cannot have taken place in the same year as other scenes in season 2. Who let this happen? Who allowed such disdain and dishonor to fall upon my spreadsheet in this manner?😱
I KNOW, RIGHT?? I made a timeline for Season 1 and Season 2 to compare them to the timeline in the comics, and I noticed the Season 2 dates were off. Why was this not fixed in post? These are some of the most detail-oriented production teams out there - how did this happen??
I had read Vol 1-4 when making comments on S1 videos about Tao feeling bad for accidentally outing Charlie. People got very upset with me any time I mentioned that, for some odd reason, and would argue with me. They’re not retroactively right; they probably had read the books.
FWIW on Ben: I broadly agree with what you're saying, but I do also think that in the text of the show we are supposed to take Ben's episode seven statement that he really did like Charlie as truthful, and especially when he involuntarily smiles when Charlie brings up their first kiss. I think that scene in particular is supposed to be read as a genuine moment there, and the takeaway being that Ben's (genuine) feelings for Charlie cannot and do not excuse the abuse and power dynamic of their relationship.
Nothing against Tao and Elle's wonderful first kiss(es), but if they had seen Heartstopper S1E3, they would have known that it's possible to ask if someone wants to kiss. I mean we're probably supposed to believe that they know each other so well from being best friends forever, that they can communicate everything without words, but just putting this out there since this is the second time Elle goes in for a kiss and is rebuffed by surprised Tao and it hurts my heart. But, of course, this makes for a more dramatic show for ratings. Poor babies. 💔
Perhaps they are too young to have a Netflix account to be up-to-date on these things. I will give them access to mine. Honestly, I only use it for Heartstopper, rewatches so it will be right there in the “continue watching” row.
What you don't understand is that iPhones automatically translate French text to English and English to French. Ain't technology grand? (I assume you're buying that)
Here's my two cents with Nick and Charlie this episode. I think Nick fails to protect Charlie in the hickey situation and it really irks me, tbh. He sits by not once, but twice, as people mock Charlie and speculate about who gave him the hickey. Should he have come out and said it was him who did it? If he wasn't ready, I don't think that was necessary. But he should have at least piped up and said it's not funny that people are making fun of Charlie and it's not right to speculate on who did it? Yes. Maybe some might have thought it was suspicious, but it's clear that Nick and Charlie are 'mates' even to those who don't know they are dating, so it would hardly be out of character or weird for a presumed 'straight' friend to stand up for his gay friend who is getting bullied and mocked. Fans swoon when he finally does the bare minimum on the Eiffel Tower, and so does Charlie, but really I feel it's only right that Nick finally does the right thing after repeatedly letting Charlie down, especially since the hickey was (unintentionally) his fault in the first place. #IStandWithTao Perhaps it's in part because Charlie keeps deflecting and covering up how much the bullying has traumatized him in the past, and of course these are 15-16-year-olds doing their best in challenging situations, but I really think that by this point, Nick should be doing a better job at protecting his boyfriend. Charlie is ride or die for Nick and would sacrifice almost everything to protect him, but Nick at this point doesn't seem able to, even though he's 2-3 times Charlie's size and could easily deck someone as obnoxious as Harry or Ben if he needed to. It makes me sad that the fans generally don't give Charlie his flowers. He's literally the sweetest and most considerate person ever... but he's not played by Kit Connor, so.... 👀
As someone who would definitely sit there like Nick and not know what to say (and always admire Tao for speaking up so loudly for his friends), I absolutely agree with you on this. It's very rare that people notice the problems Nick has, since season 1 he has been the perfect golden boy that everyone wants to either have or be, and even now in season 2, where he's allowed more depth and family history, that still lingers. I, too, wish people would see how awesome Charlie is. Nick even spelled it out for us in S1E8, but alas. (And, yes, of course, part of that is that he gives too much and suffers from it, he will need to find a balance of not putting himself last anymore.) I am so looking forward to seeing Thom's comments on the episodes with Nick's dad (NO RUSH, THOM, I SWEAR, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHEN THEY'LL BE READY, PLEASE TAKE ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD, SORRY FOR YELLING BUT I'M SCARED OF BEING MISUNDERSTOOD HERE) and the discussion in the comments. I am excited to find out what it means (to other people) that Nick had the season 1 mannerisms of the wave and the shoulder pat from his (absent) dad, for example. (And to find out all the things I haven't even thought about yet.)
I think you make a good point but I wonder if, before breakfast, Charlie and Nick have had a conversation like: Nick: we could just tell people it was me Charlie: No! You are not ready. It will just bring more attention on us. Nick: Char... Charlie: really, I want to just ignore it. I don't want you to have to come out that way. Nick: if that's what you want Charlie: it really is. I'm not making excuses for Nick, he does the wrong thing, but I can see how Charlie would convince himself it's better for both of them for Nick not to say anything. And Nick would gladly hide behind the excuse that it's what Charlie wants. Maybe I'm bringing too much of my personal experience in to this but Charlie at this point is really unwell. He is literally trying to make himself disappear. He just wants the whole thing to go away and he will be 100% blaming himself for not stopping Nick (remember that voice he tells Ben about in ep7) and see it as his responsibility to bear this, not Nick's. You are right, Nick could have done better, but I think Charlie will have given him the perfect get-out clause to make his course of action seem like the right way to go.
#IStandWithTao Nick has just confessed to Tao that he thinks he’s really cool for caring about his friends so loudly. All he had to do was follow Tao’s example here about telling people to pipe down. Not follow Tao’s example of talking about it at the breakfast table, tho….
I mean Charlie's friends could have said sth about it as well when he was getting low-key bullied about it because they are you know , his friends and Nick didn't mean to give him a hickey but they didn't. It was perhaps an unanimous decision to ignore the dumb hickey questions as much as they could. If someone would have caught on and started harassing Nick about it Charlie would have felt horrible about it. So as shitty as it is and not agreeing completely with how they handled it I don't think Nick deserves this scolding entirely.
I would imagine that if she doesn't at first, she's learned about it soon enough from hanging out with the Paris squad. When Nick is not around the larger school group, he becomes quite unguarded about expressing his affection for Charlie.
I did think about this - Nick and Charlie don't formally come out to Sahar and both Sahar and James were introduced to N and C at the Paris planning meeting. Yet James doesn't know that Nick and Charlie are a couple until Truth/Dare even though he hangs with them all through the days in Paris. So yeah, thought that was a bit odd.
I've seen people like Ben. Gay or not, he is cruel and abusive. He comments and actions towards Charlie are those of a psychopath and way over the top. If he gets help, he still most likely will always be cruel and hateful. While I love your insights, I wish you jump in the middle of many scenes with extensive commentary. Ex. When Nick says, "You know it was me, don't you?"
Sorry, just to interject against one part of what he said, when someone breaks their leg there is at least a 40% chance I will say they did that to themselves. My sympathy is short
![EMOTIONAL DAMAGE (again) [Heartstopper 3x03 Reaction & Analysis: "Talk"]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/G7mSLp9eMd8/mqdefault.jpg)
![HEARTSTOPPER S3 E3&4 (REACTION & COMMENTARY) [RE-UPLOAD]](/img/1.gif)
I love how Isaac just tells Harry off in no uncertain terms - all the while filling in the worksheet without missing a beat! Next-level multitasking!!!
I honestly think this is the best moment of the season - certainly the best part that isn't from the comics!
Yet another reason to love Isaac!
The line “you stole him from me” really hits me, like Charlie is a possession - again speaking to Ben controlling Charlie
Ben absolutely views a BF/GF, whether it's Charlie or Imogen, as an accessory. He doesn't grasp that Charlie is a person in his own right, who left him of his own free will
41:43 “And Tao looking at Elle. And the art, but mostly Elle.”
Elle IS art, Thom
30:24 - Apparently it’s not specifically Imogen who’s afraid of heights, but the actor Rhea who is afraid of heights. She says so in one of the magazine cover interviews with all the girls, how she was terrified of going up there and how they had to try and talk her through it. I guess that’s just part of Imogen’s character now as a result, lol.
Random dude #7 “iM nOt GaY” Thom “Yeah well neither is Nick, he’s bi actually” THAT MOMENT HAD ME LAUGHING SO HARD
We need some "i'm bi, actually" merch, actually...
@@zagorskaewelina nah because I made a bracelet that says “I’m bi, actually”
@@Nellies_momphoto, please!
@@zagorskaewelinaSAME. I had a T-shirt custom made for myself with that comic panel on it.
@@sadfaery this sounds really cool!
On Nick being some distance away from Charlie, and Charlie calling out to him so quietly: I think it's worth saying that this scene happens from Charlie's point-of-view, and I think Nick being so far away is more supposed to be symbolic of Charlie getting tunnel-vision than as big a distance as it is.
From a purely logistical perspective, Nick doesn't really rush forward to catch Charlie, he only really steps, and there's a significant shortening of that gap between the Charlie POV shot and the wider shot of Nick catching him.
I think Charlie is only a step or two away, rather than the several metres it looks like from his POV.
"I don't give a rat's ass, rude boy" has got to be a meme!
Ok, here it is, as promised!
Understanding Harry Greene, Part Two: The Role of Status and Desirability
As a continuation of my previous discussion (found as a comment under Thom’s analysis of Season 2, Episode 3: Promise), here I will attempt to explain Harry’s change in behavior toward Nick and Charlie and how that is consistent with his underlying values. First, here are the answers to the questions I teased in Part One:
A. "Why does Harry care so much about Nick's love life?” Three main reasons:
1) Harry thinks he and Nick are good friends, and that’s what friends do. Tara and Darcy were every bit as invested in Elle’s love life, and they had known her for a fraction of the time.
2) As a de facto member of Harry’s clique, Nick is supposed to contribute to its cache by dating and showing the world that its members are desirable. Harry leans on him extra hard to make progress because he’s the one who has gotten the most interest from the ladies.
3) Nick is a pioneer in the world of girls, being the first to garner their interest, and he is expected to gain experience and report back his findings. Harry doesn’t know that Nick is not the kind of guy to kiss and tell, and he is absolutely expecting Nick to share all the sordid details of whatever progress he made with any conquest. By dropping the ball and being “proper thick about girls,” he’s postponing the opportunity for Harry and the boys to live and learn vicariously.
B. “Why does Harry keep harping on the others for not bringing girls when he never brings one?” It’s because it’s not his job. He’s done his job, and he’s calling them out for failing to do theirs.
As discussed in Part One, in addition to valuing his friendship with Nick, Harry highly values attention, status, and influence. Most of his decisions are based on what will increase the social standing of himself and the clique of year 11s he leads, which include a mix of rugby lads, Truham elites, and girls from Higgs. The two main ways to elevate the status of group are to keep its members at the top of the pecking order and to showcase the perks of being a member of the group, which include access to girls (especially important at an all-boys school).
Harry has put in the work to put his clique at the top of the pecking order. Although he does enjoy picking on people and is energized by getting a laugh from his mates, his bullying is actually strategic. In the mornings and afternoons, the group takes up their post at the school entrance, putting them in tactical position to be metaphorical gatekeepers to secondary school society. He also leads his entourage around the schoolyard during lunch, keeping the membership visible and choosing to verbally taunt and “chuck stuff” at undesirables to keep them in their place. Harry also throws lavish parties that people line up to get into. Harry has put in his due toward raising the profile of the clique and giving it resources; now it’s the members’ turn to increase the group’s cache by drawing cool people. Bringing girls into the group is the ultimate status boost, and having members actually dating girls is a double win, as having members being seen as desirable is key to elevating the group’s status. Harry has been focused on empire building, but if he did put his mind to getting his own girl, it would not let everyone else off the hook.
Harry considers himself a prince among lords, and Nick is his most favored duke. Nick is effortlessly cool, and without any of Harry’s advantages, Nick has managed to gain the respect of his rugby teammates to become team captain and has attracted the attention of “two proper-fit girls.” Because people like being around Nick, having Nick as part of the group adds to its pull. Prince Harry brings the wealth, privilege, and prestige, and the members of his court who are dependent upon the prince’s favor are supposed to do their part to glorify the principality. In another age, he might have said to Nick, “I’ll give you support from the royal coffers and the royal army if you go over the river and capture lands to expand the realm.” In today’s world, he’s expecting Nick to use his advantages to attract cool people, as the people with whom members associate reflect on the group. By forfeiting his chances to hang out with girls and choosing instead to hang out with Charlie, a “borderline outcast” who comes with the social stigma of being openly gay, Nick’s behavior becomes highly problematic. Harry starts being more invested in Nick’s decisions than ever, but all of his attempts to separate Nick from Charlie backfire, and by the bonfire scene in Season 2, Harry really starts to understand that he might have lost Nick to Charlie.
In Paris, not only is Nick doing just fine hanging with Charlie, but he’s managed to become popular in a group that represents about 20% of the students on the trip, effectively become a competing clique. Harry sees that, in this context, Charlie isn’t actually social poison, and even both of the girls Harry wanted in his group, Tara and Imogen, want to hang out with them. When Ben blew it with Imogen at the dinner, and Harry’s clique lost Imogen to Charlie’s group, Harry feels that as a big blow. Then, much to his surprise, Harry learns that Charlie gets a hickey, which is indisputable evidence of his desirability. Harry is sincere in his statement, “Something to be proud of, isn’t it? Getting some action.” If he or one of his boys had achieved that, he’d be elated for what it did for their cache. His attention and his coarse manner make Charlie uncomfortable, much to Harry’s delight, but they come from a place of actual admiration.
By the time Nick responds to his mate’s taunt at the Eiffel Tower, Harry has put the pieces together and figured out it was Nick who gave Charlie the hickey. His perspective has shifted, since he’s observed that being queer hasn’t turned out to be as socially ruinous as Harry feared, and the members of Charlie’s clique are all more advanced in the dating realm than any of his mates. It also dawns on him that Nick was upset about his homophobic remarks because he would have taken them personally, and he sees where he seriously messed up (I honestly think that here Isaac’s iconic rebuke managed to wriggle its way through to him). From that point he decides to make amends with Nick, first by cutting off his mate’s teasing at the Eiffel Tower and then by coming to Tara’s party with an apology. Note that when he requests to be given a chance to apologize, he asks to speak with Nick and Charlie, completely ignoring Tao, who was also a subject of his bullying. Although Charlie is the one who is openly gay and was ostensibly hurt by his homophobic remarks, in Harry’s mind, it’s really Nick he needs to persuade to forgive him. Observing Harry’s eyeline carefully during his apology, one sees he directs almost his entire speech to Nick. He again misjudged the situation, not realizing that making redress with Charlie was the only way back into Nick’s good graces. Having failed to earn Charlie’s forgiveness, and the door slams on his reconciliation with Nick once and for all.
When Harry’s group encounters the couple at Prom, Nick has already come out on Instagram, and Harry has come to terms with the fact that he has lost Nick to Charlie for good. He has also come to terms with the idea that being gay is not social suicide, and that being homophobic in front of people won’t serve him anymore. Now he thinks of Nick as an alumnus of their group, so when his entourage passes Nick and Charlie by the photo station, he holds Nick up as an example. “I can’t believe that Nick’s showing off his boyfriend, but none of you managed to bring a girl!” Here he is implicitly acknowledging that Nick has achieved what Harry always wanted all of his group’s members to achieve, and now the remaining members are being chastised for falling short.
I hope this perspective was helpful in terms of explaining the evolution of Harry’s response to Nick and Charlie’s developing relationship, which I intended to keep consistent with what we learn about their dynamic with Harry in the novella, “Nick and Charlie.” Again, I have detailed notes if anyone wants to drill down on any of my points. Also, I might excerpt some lines from here to add as separate comments for the benefit of people who have chosen not to read all the way through this. Thank you for coming to my TED talk, and I will now cleanse my palate by watching some adorable Nick and Charlie moments!
Thank you for sharing your essay's second installment with us! I actually was also thinking that the dramatic shift in Harry's behavior had to do with him figuring out the truth of what's going on with Nick and Charlie, something I'll probably say more about later. In any case, thank you for the essay - it gets full marks, of course, and a gold star!
Wow, epic analysis 💜
Amazing, amazing essay! It perfectly aligns with Harry's character (in both the show and the books), and his character shift in this season/chapter.
Omg that's amazing, it makes so much sense and yet I never thought about it this way! Thank you for working so hard to make it fit into comments section length, and yes, please, do take parts of it to people who might be interested in the question of "wtf is Harry trying to do"! There's a lot of comments, not everyone will even scroll through, let alone read all of them.
I daressy Harry's strategy might have sth to do with his home, namely his rich father's corporate mindset. Thus Harry is more of a chairman than a prince. The goals and means remain the same. It's all about branding, good publicity, accumulating assets, remaining in control.
THANK YOU for your talk about mental health issues. The mentioning of the bravery of people made me cry. I've been suffering from depression basically my whole life, just as the majority of my family has. And like you said I blame myself for being too weak to overcome it, too lazy to do certain things (like term papers) or get my life "in order". Your words really mean a lot to me!
The most messed up thing I learned about my mental health issues is that they actually make me a completely different person. I am very outgoing, love being with people, love being active and creative and sharing my opinions. My mental health issues prevent me from being all that. I can see the exact same thing in Charlie. We see how strong and joyful a person he can be. Sometimes you get the impression of seeing two different Charli Springs. That might be projection on my part, but it's hearrbreaking anyway.
All the best to you! And to anyone suffering, YOU ARE NOT ALONE!
1:12:16 "He's not the most reliable." That really got to me. I've been saying the same thing about my own father for 30+ years, so hearing someone saying those exact words out loud is just...OUCH!
Same. Another common phrase of mine about my relationship with my father was “it’s complicated.”
It's probably not true but I would have liked to think that Elle's painting was in part also inspired by Tao's painting from season one. It also showed the friend group together, and while they were outside (I think he was tasked to draw a landscape) in the painting, not inside like the people in the museum piece, the painting itself was lying in the art room, their safe space that will be depicted in Elle's painting in the end. I wonder if she's thinking about it here in the museum, when she's inspired.
Cool idea!
I thought exactly that, too.
I really enjoy your reviews. You give the most insightful and in depth reviews of any I have viewed. Please continue doing what you do so we’ll.
Of course, Nick does call Charlie “mon amour,” “my love”:soon after Nick comes to saying I love you. Your reviews are vert insightful and helpful in recognizing many of the more subtle underlying themes.
Ah, I didn't notice the song lyric in the end at the Métro station. 😍
I was busy with reading École du Coeur, which is apparently a station that doesn't exist, and would mean, like, "school of the heart", approximately, and the poster next to it, saying "s'envoler" (to fly off/away/ to take off) with the lovebirds and the leaves. Bringing back to mind Alice's cameo on the train in season one, where there were the same style lovebird posters with "our" lovebirds flying off alone together. I like how at least at this age trains still symbolise some freedom for them.
Great job at identifying that symbolism! See, this is why I love reading the comments on these reactions!
@@elisabethbauman6190 Despite hearing Thom talk about it for over a year, I still don't even know what symbolism is 😟, so that must be sheer luck, but thank you for the encouragement, it means a lot. 💜
I was just about to comment the same, about the "s'envoler". Love this show with all the small details and call-backs.
It made me chuckle that they run for the metro from the Louvre, just to then get off at Pont Neuf station a 5 minute walk away (if that), like it would have probably been quicker to just walk 😅
One of the things that I love about this show is how we are constantly learning things about the characters that help explain their previous actions. In season 1, Tao says that he thinks Charlie didn't tell him about Nick because he was afraid he'd say something stupid and accidentally out him to the other boys at school. Not sure about anyone else, but this always struck me as a somewhat tangential and specific thing for Tao to think Charlie would be worried about. Well, now we find out that it was him accidentally outing him last year that led to all the bullying. This makes so much sense as to why Tao would fear the same thing happening with Nick, and also Tao's overprotectiveness and worrying about bullying with Charlie last season. Tao has been haunted by this (accidental) transgression to the point where it has taken over much of his thinking. I think finally telling Charlie, and receiving Charlie's forgiveness and love in response, was really healing for Tao.
It was the same in the books. It was mentioned ( or hinted at) that Tao might’ve accidentally outed Charlie.
Thanks for your honesty and enthusiasm Thom. You’ve created a safe community where we’re actually excited to participate in the Comments section, both here and on Patreon. I’m a big fan of your work 💜
Imogen is such a mood in Paris. She really came into her own. No more Miss Nice Girl.
Y'all, I really did collectively write about 2,500 words on the subject of Harry Greene, and yet did not mention the fact that the day after Ben and Imogen had the argument in the restaurant, Harry has Imogen sitting next to him on the bus, and Ben has to find another seat. Harry's a dick to many people, but he wants Imogen to know that she's still part a valued part of their group, even though she was at odds with Ben. I thought that was noteworthy.
Thom, thank you for your analysis and your warmth. It's so lovely to interact with you in this funny parasocial way -- your intellect and your kindness radiate through the screen!
This!!
I think Tao is so dramatic about the hickey because, as I mentioned on the last video, I think he took Isaac on his vending machine run to extend an olive branch to Nick in the form of private time with Charlie. I think he sees himself as partly responsible with the other two for the teasing and attention Charlie's going to get, and he tries to distance himself when he blames Nick fully at breakfast.
I always love your detailed discussions. Regarding episode 8, I would totally watch a separate in-depth video of your thoughts on the last scene. If you're struggling with long videos, maybe you could do episode 8 up until that point and then a separate video dedicated to that?
@41:15 I regret to inform you this is not the Louvre, and those people were probably not VFX’d in lol. They were extremely limited with the amount of people who were allowed to bring into the Louvre, as well as time, so most of the “Louvre” scenes were shot elsewhere. The Tao/Elle scenes and the Nick and Charlie vs security guard scenes were actually filmed there (the Mona Lisa may have been a green screen shot). This is the National Gallery in London I think.
I was flabbergasted when I saw that clip where Joe said the people were fake, because that would have been an extremely complicated and expensive shot. When I saw the full scene of this gallery in the show, I knew there was almost no way those people weren’t really there. With that camera move in the first shot, the interactions with the ground, passing behind and in front of our subjects, and how close they were to the camera, it would have been an absurdly complex shot for very little reason. Would’ve made way more sense just to film somewhere else with real extras. Which they did.
I think what probably happened is that Joe was talking about the fake people in the background of his and Kit’s security guard scene. But the Netflix social media editors didn’t know which scenes were shot in the Louvre, and they probably have no grasp of that level of VFX, so they assumed it was all shot there and threw in that shot because it looked impressive. Which it would’ve been. If it had been VFX lol.
Thanks for the educational discussion. I’m not up on VFX, but I find it fascinating
The red gallery where Charlie feints, and the portrait of James I that Mr Farouk poses with, are both in Dulwich Picture Gallery in London, so they probably were legit extras or members of the crew posing as extras.
I think you're right, the fake people Joe was mentioning were in the sculpture gallery where Nick phones his dad. That scene is definitely the Louvre, and prior to Nick's phone call there are loads of tiny people milling around on the balconies in the background. Then after Nick & Charlie get shouted at and run away, they've all magically vanished
This is a little thing that just struck me. The parallel between Tara and Darcy unintentionally giving Nick the confidence and inspiration to kiss Charlie in S1E3 and then Nick giving the inspiration to Elle to go off with Tao and kiss him in the Louvre.
29:51 To add, the way Ben talks about Charlie here (and at other points), is more like a possession rather than a person (and last I checked Ben, you couldn’t steal a person).
When I was in middle school in 7th grade I think it was, I had to do the mile along with the rest of my class and when I had just finished I went to my friends and suddenly everything started to turn white. I knew I was dehydrated so I sat on the floor cause I wasn't feeling well. When I sat on the floor I knew I was doing the right thing cause if I didn't I would have passed out.
I think that maybe David is the way he is because he's trying to win his absent Dad's love. And Nick is as he is because, being younger when the parents split up, though he misses his Dad, his primary relationship is with his Mum, who is great.
Nobody ever talks about the Darcy Ben paralells in this season. So thank you!
And the guy who asks Nick about the hickey was actually in the back ground in Season 1 aswell mostly with the rugby lads oudside the gate but also in Charlie's Math(s) class when the teacher reminds them of Sports day at the beginning of Ep 8.
I think I remember someone saying that in actuality the café where they go to meet Nick’s father is only a five minute walk from the Louvre. So they wouldn’t actually have to take a train at all. But from a storytelling perspective, it’s so much more effective to have them take the train.
I saw someone say the café is actually in the UK by the Thames? 🤔
@@Taraxacum_sp Well, one of us clearly heard the wrong thing, and for all I know it could be me. Maybe somebody else knows for sure.
I thought I saw/read that the cafe scene was shot in the UK. It would make sense if they only had the actor for a day or two (much like Olivia C during the first season). Also some of the museum gallery scenes might have been shot in the UK as well?
@@dank4055 The cafe seen with Nick's dad was shot in France, the filming of it was actually what made people realize they were filming season 2, cause they filmed it on the street. Also, the actor who plays Nick's dad is a famous French actor, so it made sense for him to be in France for filming. He probably had to travel to the UK for the dinner scenes.
RE: The Eiffel Tower stairs via Google- While the Tower has a total of 1,665 steps from the ground to the top, you can only climb 674 of them, from the ground to the second floor (327, then 347 steps). You cannot take the stairs all the way to the top from the second floor, as this section is not open to the public for safety reasons.
When you were “ranting” over Nick’s conversation with Charlie about his not eating, I suddenly thought that it could be summed up as “Nick’s good at the middle ground”.
Oh, that sounds interesting, I'll have to listen to that again.
The essay length section of my comment for this video will be dedicated entirely to the moment Nick and Charlie run up the Eiffel Tower while the amazing Christine and the Queens song "Doesn't Matter (Voleur de Soliel)" plays in the background. "Voleur de Soliel" roughly translates to "sun thief," which pertains to the bridge of the song, which, conveniently, is the part of the song playing during this scene. The song as a whole is quite dark, dealing with nihilism, despair, and self-destruction, and the lyrics are kind of talk-sung in a lower register. But then this soaring, melodic, harmonic, and frankly gorgeous bridge happens, and the tone shifts entirely. The bridge encourages the subject to grab hold of the sun, to steal the sun, to save the sun. Given the darkness of the song, I interpret this sudden splash of brilliant joy as a directive to survive the dark moments.
Nick and Charlie are in Paris, in love, and generally happy, but they are still being tested today as you point out. Charlie has been tortured this whole season with the responsibility of protecting Nick through his coming out, and is facing a fresh round of derision about the hickey. Nick is feeling a lot of guilt about what Charlie is going through with the hickey, and has just been the recipient of Ben's bile and aggression. But once they are finished with the non-Eiffel Tower related Eiffel Tower worksheets, they make sure they are the first on the stairs, and run together hand in hand, far above anyone who might see. They run upwards, towards the SUN, STEALING this moment of joy, while Christine implores us to steal the sun.
Tiny moment, less than a minute of montage, but the moment really hit me as beautiful. And when I listened to this song back in isolation, it struck me how fitting it was.
Another small thing, we had a moment of Nick being profound in Episode 5 of Season 1, and we get the same in Season 5 of Season 2.
Wonderful video as usual Thom! Your analysis remains my favourite and is always worth the wait! Plus, the longer you take, the longer Heartstopper season gets to last before the inevitable wait. (Although! It is strongly rumoured that production for Season 3 will begin in October.)
Oh, thank you SO much for sharing your insight about the song. That makes me want to go find the lyrics! Your interpretation resonates with me, and I really appreciate your sharing it.
Interesting fact that I have mentioned on other reaction sites because it's the only interesting fact that I have, lol; Not only are the people milling around in the Louvre fake but also most of the scenes supposedly in the louvre are fake Louvres. Very few scenes were filmed in the Louvre because of time restrictions so most of the art gallery scenes were filmed in The National Gallery and The National Portrait Gallery and I've been told that the fainting scenes were filmed at the Dulwich Picture Gallery all of which are situated in London. in fact if you look hard enough you will see that a lot of signs on the gallery walls are in English. 😀
Thanks for gathering that intel!
Great video as always. Thank you Thom ❤ The situation at the end, gets me every time, so wonderful 🩷
I just saw a clip at tiktok that the padlock is still at the bridge in Paris.
It's a Joe Locke (I'll see myself out, thank you.)
@@snoopy_J I actually had a "Joe Locke lock" joke in the video that I cut out for everyone's general well-being. :P
@@thom_is_trans I vaguely remember having the ability to "cut it out for everyone's general well-being." I seem to have misplaced it. It must be lying around here somewhere.
There is a quick glance that Mr. Ajayi gives Mr. Farouk after the fist bump that can be read as another subtle secondary plot point that gets sprinkled into the season. Also I think there were some cast members who are scared of heights so Imogen's reaction to the climb might also be Rhea's and the reason we don't see much of Sahar on the tower.
WAIT, I HAVE A QUESTION!
In this episode, Ben tells Nick that “You came along, and you stole him from me. Charlie really liked me until you got in his head.”
Given that Charlie broke up with Ben during their first week of class after the winter break (Thurs, Jan 7?), and given that Charlie didn’t know Nick before Monday, Jan 4 when he was put into his new form group, does that mean that Ben thinks Nick seduced Charlie THAT WEEK? Is it possible that Ben is looking back on the time he ran into Nick and Charlie walking down the Maths corridor side-by-side and pinpointing that encounter as the moment it all went sideways??
If so, that’s kinda crazy, because I feel like that’s what really happened. Charlie had a raging crush on Nick in the beginning but felt like he was already tied to Ben, and he was ok with that until he got a taste of being noticed by a cute boy who would actually say hi to him in the hallways and be openly friendly instead of pretending he didn’t even know he existed. That moment when Nick drew a smiley face on his hand and left his mark in front of dozens of students was immediately followed by Ben snapping at him for saying hi to him when Ben wasn’t supposed to know him. That was the beginning of the disenchantment, which was hastened considerably by Ben’s empty apology for “ignoring” him and then by openly kissing a girl while treating Charlie like a side piece.
I wonder if, in Ben’s revisionist history, he goes back to the memories of that week and conjures some distorted vision of events in which Nick is the instigator who orchestrated that encounter or whether he has completely fabricated a different memory to mark the turning point where Ben lost Charlie to Nick. I know it’s dark and dangerous to ask for more, but sometimes I really want to know exactly what the heck Ben is thinking when he says the bonkers things he says.
Anyone else have theories or thoughts?
Definitely sounds plausible to me!
After loosing count of how many times I’ve watched, I just noticed at 1:14:05 that on the wall is an Alice oseman mural(right hand side along the wall of the train station in between the trains passing) of birds and Narlie leaves with the French word s’envoler which thanks to google I learned means to fly away/fly off. I love all of the minute details especially since it’s a blink and you’ll miss it moment.
Why the show lends itself to rewatching and constant fan engagement. Having read, “I was Born This Way” and seeing Alice’s take on fandoms, I think Alice has become expert at sprinkling in easter eggs for fans to find.
Amazing review, as always! You really picked up on almost every detail. 👏
About Tara "pressuring" Darcy into saying I love you back: I don't think that's why Tara kept bringing up the subject with Darcy. It's okay to not be ready to say I love you back, that's natural. What is a bad sign though is avoiding the subject completely and constantly deflecting. I think right off the bat Tara realized there's something up with Darcy, something that's troubling her and that she's not telling Tara. I see it more as concern for Darcy and as Tara trying to get Darcy to open up to her, and not as her trying to get Darcy to reciprocate. And it's sort of confirmed during her conversation with Nick at prom.
I agree with you, I also wish that Nick had corrected Ben after he assumed Nick was the one who told Imogen about him and Charlie. It would have been a nice echo to Charlie's "except I wouldn't do that, because I'm a decent person" in S1E8, showing Ben that everyone is not as shitty as he is. Also, your whole analysis of Ben's character is ON POINT. Despite my initial complaints about him being around too much in S2, I really think he's a complex antagonist and offers an interesting parallel to Nick.
In S1, Nick was the one who could not keep up with Charlie while running up the stairs at Harry's party. It breaks my heart that at the Eiffel tower, it's the other way around and Nick almost has to drag Charlie up the stairs 😟
Rhea Norwood said in her Cosmopolitan magazine interview that she is very very afraid of heights and had a really bad time filming at the Eiffel tower. Looks like it's Rhea's real actual fear that we see on Imogen in that scene. 😟
"You do know it was me, right?" flirty Nick is aaaaaaaaaaaah 😵
I went on a trip to Paris when I was 16. The day I visited the Louvre, the Italian painters section was closed because of a strike or something. So I didn't get to see the Mona Lisa. I was very disapointed at the time. I felt better once I found out that I actually hadn't missed out on too much haha. There is much more impressive stuff to see at the Louvre in my opinion.
I also saw the interview where Joe said the other people in the Louvre were added in post production because they only allowed so many people in for filming. And now I can't unsee it haha. Like, when Charlie faints, they're just standing there minding their business. Realistically, at least a few of them would be concerned and come help.
The Nick and Elle interaction in the Louvre. ❤🩹
I think the cut right after Elle first kisses Tao, right before she stands up and says she's sorry, is a bit off. I feel like there's a half second that's missing? I haven't seen anyone comment on that so maybe it's just me?
I relate to you yelling when Cavetown started plaing. I yelled at almost all the songs in episode 8. But that is a story for a future reaction 😉Truly an iconic soundtrack. 🙌
Thanks again! Hope you have a lovely evening! 🤗
Thanks for sharing your insights!
I agree about Ben. I hate the pall that he casts over the entire season, but he is a complex antagonist who serves a very important purpose, so I can’t bring myself to say he shouldn’t be there. I, too, really wish that Nick had assured Ben that he had not outed him. Ben is so paranoid about being discovered that it warps his behavior. The fear of people knowing hits him like a feral animal, and if he had assurance that his secret would not be weaponized, I think he could focus on trying to pursue growth in one direction instead of spinning and spiraling. The constant dread overtakes his saner moments and undermines his self-reflection, flipping him out his important “I’m a messed up person” moments of introspection and into “other people are ruining my life” moments of externalizing his emotional crisis. The boy needs serious therapy and a feeling of safety in which to grow.
I also get what you’re saying about Tara. I think she is more worried about Darcy’s constant deflections, her refusal to open up about her home life, and her inability to connect seriously and talk honestly about deep stuff. She sees Darcy is wearing a mask and won’t even admit it. However, Tara is not great at directing the communication, and by not being direct about what she wants to talk about, she leaves all kinds of room for Darcy to circumvent it. I think Tara wanted to hear “I love you” back, but she also wanted assurance that Darcy really meant it, which she couldn’t have until Darcy was willing to open up to her. Tara needs to have some more time with Nick to strategize about communication, because somehow he gets it.
Another great reaction Thom! If you think about it, along with Nick being able to speak, French, Charlie probably can speak some or a lot of Spanish, like his father and Tao at least understands and probably speaks a lot of Cantonese with his Mum. 😊
And Sahar speaks Arabic with her parents.
Thank you for the great video Thom! I really enjoyed your analysis and hearing what you have to say, it made me realise things I didn’t think about before. ❤️
I think in the shot where Charlie is feeing faint/dizzy and his vision going blurry while sitting down, it’s unrealistic that he then hops up without a wobble and is on his way
- I think it would have been good to show Charlie having a wobble and grabbing onto Nick for support, and to see more concern from Nick at that point, foreshadowing to the characters (not just the viewer) whats about to come.
Also as you already mentioned, with the fainting scene, it was odd to have a lovey dovey scene with Tao and Elle straight after, I think it would have been good to see more verbal concern expressed from the other characters, but then also to show Tao’s reaction (like in the comics) to finding out about Charlie bc of how protective Tao is over Charlie.
Tao's "how dare you put a hickey on my son's neck you deviant" look will never not be funny :D (I feel like this is one of the scenes Kit mentioned where they has an unstoppable fit of laughter) and I also liked Tao/Charlie interaction regarding him accidentally outing Charlie, but I have a feeling that had Nick been outed because of Tao loudly discussing the hickey at the breakfast table he would be less understanding, given his over-protectiveness over Nick in every aspect.
Btw Ben was also talking about Nick and Charlie and the hickey quite loudly and he was surrounded by the entire class, so I'm pretty surprised no one was eavesdropping on their conversation as well, because these people clearly love relationship drama, especially when it concerns Charlie for whatever reason. And I also think that Nick does feel a tiny bit of empathy towards Ben because even though he hates him he is the kind of guy who is trying to find the good in people.
Also props to Charlie for actually telling Nick he felt like he was about to pass out, as we know he doesn't want Nick to see him as weak. I got into a similar situation about a month ago due to extreme heat - I suddenly got dizzy, nauseous, cold-sweaty and I genuinely thought I was going to just flop on the floor whilst repeatedly telling my mom sitting next to me that I'm fine. And I love Nick for addressing Charlie's issue so calmly, although Charlie does seem very much alarmed and guilty at first and the fact that he's not preaching like "But you have to eat", but instead saying okay, I may not understand, but I can do this, this and this, would that help you?
And the scene with the phone call is one of my favorites in the comics as well, especially the part where Charlie realizes that Nick has some issues he's trying to hide from him in order not to be a nuissance and he's like yeah, you're clearly not okay with this situation at all. but I'm here to listen just like you always listen to me. Btw regarding this scene I also realized that Charlie quite often says Nick (playfully) that he's a "giant rugby idiot" or "a dick", but Nick never says anything like this to Charlie, because he treasures and admires him so much that these words never even cross his mind. I don't think he's worried that he'd take then literally, but I find it interesting. :)
Oh God, I feel like my comments are also getting longer and longer and judging by my feelings about the E8 finale I'm heading toward an essay as well, so sorry beforehands :D
Essays are not only appreciated but encouraged! I shall look forward to your future dissertations. ;)
Loved the intro when you previewed it, love it here.
I absolutely LOVE Tao's reaction to the hickey. Will plays it fantastically with the look he gives Nick.
♥ Isaac. You tell him!
Nick didn't out Ben. But I still do think that, if Charlie gave permission or did it himself, they would be in their rights to out Ben to Imogen in order to warn her about what Ben is capable of. It's for her safety. But of course that's not what happened (though Nick could have done a better job than he did of warning her, heh).
Ben is most often compared to Nick. But I love the contrast with Darcy as well. She has issues, and we see it starting to hurt her relationship with Tara, but she never used her home life as an excuse to last out at other people.
The heights thing is real. Rhea was very scared.
Google says 1,665 stairs but only 674 climbable by the public (half that to the second floor and the rest to as high as tourists can go).
Baby Tao does such a great job. The Charlie actor definitely reflect Charlie as well but the Tao actor gets more lines and pulls them off very well.
I absolutely love Tao this season. Obviously there are still a few slipups, like in episode 3, but overall he comes so far. And Will does a fantastic job with it. They've all gotten a lot better with their characters this season.
I think I've heard they clear the locks every few months, presumably to make room for new ones.
She must have gotten that art done and had it approved pretty quick if she didn't end up doing it until after she got back. But yeah, I didn't notice the connection, it's not something most would notice the first time through, but I have heard that idea before and it does seem the intent.
I heard most of the Louvre shots are actually from other places. I imagine it's not cheap to film in the Louvre, with many restrictions too. In and out to get the shots they need, like the Mona List.
I also love it when different pairings get some scenes together.
I hadn't thought of that angle, that after all Tao did to Nick, Nick's the one that gave that little push that finally got them together. Good Nick.
Yeah I also found it a little weird that the moment with Tao and Elle that everything's been building to is placed in the middle of Charlie passing out. A bit of whiplash and you can't help thinking that this beautiful thing is happening to them while their best friend is passed out. I think I get what they were going for and wanting to break up the heavy scene but... yeah I don't know if it works. But they're still both great scenes and it doesn't detract too much from that.
I can't wait to see what he falls asleep to in season 3, episode 2, lol.
Yeah running seems worse than making out on the empty floor, lol.
The funny thing is, I think I read in a Reddit topic somebody saying the stations they used as a stand-in are actually nowhere near the Louvre but the café they go to actually is. TV magic.
I guess your videos in S3 will break 2 hours, lol.
You're right, all the episodes are great and have some great stuff in them. I think the Paris episodes might be the highlight but like, so much great stuff.
Love hearing all your thoughts though, even if it means having to wait for you to have time to edit them and such. Take care of yourself. Glad you didn't push yourself last night.
Very much looking forward to that episode 8.
The Eiffel Tower has 1,665 steps in total, but you can only climb the 2nd floor, which is 674 steps. If you want to go to the very top, you have to go on the elevator. 2nd floor is 116 meters from the ground.
I believe Charlie finds it relatively easy to be ok with Tao outing him because he is in his 'perfect' phase. He himself feels happy in love and he strives to make everything around him perfect.
Love your analyses Thom!
Your read on the stories Ben tells himself felt really on the mark. The projection was off the charts this season! I hate the way Ben talks about Charlie like he's a toy that can be passed back and forth between him and Nick, with no feelings or agency of his own. I think it speaks to what has been at the root of his abuse of Charlie all along, Ben just doesn't see him as a full human being.
Did you notice the kid with the buzzcut from Truth or Dare seemingly having a great time in the background when Charlie fainted? I also noticed them at the next table over when Imogen was yelling at Ben about his obsession with Charlie, and laughing along with Harry's crew at the Eiffel Tower when that guy asked Nick about Charlie's hickey. Always at the scene of the crime! #LeaveCharlieAlone
Yeah, I've also been following them along on my last rewatch. 🥴
Wow! I’ll have to look out for that! That kid is a pot-stirrer, for sure.
On Nick and Ben being thrown together a lot: for these kinds of things, where they're pulling from an entire year group rather than a specific form or set (broadly: homeroom and class respectively), it was pretty common for them to be distributed based on some form of student ID number sorting, rather than them 'picking' pairs.
Ours happened to be broadly alphabetical, but that's not always the case. Our computer login numbers were 5-digit numbers assigned in alphabetical order within the set we were in in Year 7, but that wasn't universal. And our exam numbers (4-digit codes) were similarly assigned alphabetically, but that's also not required and I know some schools use other orderings for that. The exam numbers in particular were used for other purposes, because they functioned as effectively ID numbers (being as they are numbers assigned to every student, and the way our school assigned them meant that the first digit also acted as a proxy for what school year you were in.)
I'd often get thrown together with my friend Sam for things that were assigned like that, so it's completely believable to me that Nick and Ben are thrown together like that. It's a practicality thing of picking pairs when you don't actually directly know the students (as Mr Farouk and Mr Ajayi wouldn't necessarily here, Farouk being new, and Ajayi not teaching a core subject that everyone takes.)
Isaac Realness is a philosophy we all need to adopt ❤
Wow, great reaction/commentary. You are the only one I’ve seen so far that caught the two things I noticed, Elle seeing her Lambert project in the painting, and Euros Lyn as the security guard. Good job.
16:16 All these pairing remind me of the writing advice "you can use coincidence to get your characters into trouble, but never out of trouble" it's makes for an interesting scene that shows drama between all our characters instead of just one pairing. It also balances out the tone because Issac and Harry/Imogen and Sahar are a bit funny whereas the other pairs are much more dramatic.
I love this episode so much. I love Charlie's reaction when he heard Nick speak French. This episode actually shows how much Charlie is cared for by Nick. Nick's love for Charlie is showing even though they havent said the words yet.. i cant wait for season three. I thought tje same thing about Nick's dad actively trying to blow off Nick by not answering his calls. I fully believe that Nick's dad cares for him but in his own way. David and Nick are completely different from each other as they are like their parents that raised them. I hope Nick's dad actively tries to keep up with Nick by him being there. Nick doesn't deserve a father like he has gotten. He is definitely lucky to have a mother like Sarah. I think that's why Charlie loves Sarah Nelson so much because she is like Nick as she is warm and friendly to anybody that comes around. Great job on the episode!! I cant wait for the next video. I also can't wait for the comparison video of the comics and tv show
Speaking of "characters who we don't often see interact", one of my disappointments of this season is that we never got to see an interaction between Elle and Mr Ajayi. I mean, I can only assume he would have been her favourite teacher when she was at Truham.
This season has so much background chatter that's actually full of gold. I don't often turn on subtitles but I'm really glad I did for this season.
Completely agree on the placement of the Elle & Tao kiss scene. I would have moved this scene to a little bit later, immediately following the scene where Charlie and Nick are sitting in the cafeteria and Charlie is eating his sandwich. I feel like it would have been better to give us a little more time to decompress after the eating disorder conversation before the "omg boyfriend speaks French
I also thought the transition from the ED conversation to the Nick Speaking French revelation felt abrupt, I think your proposed reordering would have been perfect!
I second that! Reordering those scenes would have made so much more sense tonally! My biggest disappointment with season two, which is admittedly packed with poignant moments, is that after Ep 1’s ending, there is NEVER a scene filled with lightness and joy that isn’t somehow dimmed by the remnants of worrying about a character or plot line that occurred just prior in the episode. For me, it was like the stress hormones (cortisol) were still circulating in my bloodstream while the feel-good neurotransmitters (like dopamine) were trying to do their thing at the same time. I mean, give a girl some time to recover emotionally, please!
4:54 It wasn’t exactly hickey drama, but the girl in the locker next to me in high school had a “hickey snake” from her right ear, down her neck and toward the left and disappeared under her shirt. Most people were proud of their hickeys.
Oh yes, I expect episode 8 will be more than 2 hours (edited down) 😆 1:14:04 s'envoler ♥
Mr. Farouk dragging Ben to filth 🔥
Another awesome deep dive into the episode! Been enjoying all of your comments/analyses of these episodes. Thanks so much for taking the time to do these. I really appreciated your comments regarding Charlie’s fainting scene and subsequent conversation with Nick over Charlie’s lack of eating. Outstanding comments regarding mental health. Thank you, too, for sharing your personal challenges. Yes, looking forward to hearing what you have to say about that last scene in episode 8 (!), but still have episode 7 to go before then. Question I have about Nick’s dad…. Are Sarah and Stefan divorced? I’m not sure if that’s ever been made clear in the series. I assume they are divorced since he lives in Paris and rarely sees his two kids. Thanks again and looking forward to the next episode reaction/analysis. 👊👊
If they aren't divorced, it would be odd. I don't think they've explicitly confirmed it in the comics or the show, but Stephane mentioned in the show that he's living with a woman in Paris (Nathalie, I think?) that Nick has never met, but is willing to, so if Stephane is not divorced to Sarah it would be kinda awkward. lol... It's not clear if Stephane has married Nathalie, however, if that's the case, then it's terrible that Nick (and presumably David) wasn't even invited to the wedding. Stephane is a real piece of... work...
Were they ever married? I don't remember.
I don't think this was confirmed, but I think it's pretty likely they were, as they have two children together who are four years apart. Poor Sarah. @@snoopy_J
@@normaladjacentThank you. I see I've been looking at this too much through the lense of the norms I was brought up with and too little through statistics. And poor Sarah either way, definitely! 😓
Yeessss, i've been craving more~ It's so personally infuriating watching Nick's relationship with his father (even in just the text messages to start this episode) cause it hits so close to home with my own "I need relationship validation" issues. While i've worked through quite a bit of it in therapy, it's easy to relate with that feeling of trying so hard to put in the effort to maintain a relationship that is entirely burdened on you. And it feels so refreshing when you relieve that burder as Nick does later. Just gets under my skin cause I know exactly how Nick feels wanting so desperately to have a relationship with his father and constantly being let down.
My school never had hickey drama either, which meant I just had other drama like fights and sex-rumors lol Lemme tell you the amount of times i had to step around blood from a fight going to lunch was too many to really be comfortable. I do feel bad for both Charlie and James being the center of attention just for the sole reason they are the only Out Gays in the school. And it is a nice balance of worry mixed in with Charlie's reassurance that despite what might come of the Hickey that Charlie was VERY into what caused it. Which I'd probably feel the same as Nick being someone quite inexperienced if my partner suddenly had a Hickey i'd be like "Huh? Did i do that? How?!" XD And with Tao just barging in, I don't know if it's Wistful Innocence or just an ingrained knowlede that neither of them would be bold enough to attempt something....'scandelous' >__> while within earshot of him and issac. It is defintely good advice regardless to maybe wait for a verbal consent before barging into an occupied bathroom anyway lol I do love Tao's reaction as well XD He's so protective of Charlie and like you said being very "dad" and threatening Charlie. I do wonder if Tao instantly recognizes the repercussions of the HIckey or if he's just upset that Nick did something so lewd to Charlie. And i do hate how weirdly supportive but annoying the entire episode Harry is. Like he's so supportive of Charlie getting some but his attitude and tone make it sound so snarky and rude. I do need to read the other books so I see Harry's development cause I know something happens with him in one of the books but idk how positive it is. I know at least Ben still sucks lol I do heavily agree with you on the point of Nick coming out to take pressure off of Charlie, and if you didnt expand upon it I was going to lol Charlie would feel so bad and spiral much worse if he felt like Nick came out because of him. Because at least later Charlie is under a lot of pressure but he has other people deflecting for him and it's not directly bothering Charlie cause he's just keeping Nick's secret at that point. Right now it's just people poking at Charlie himself having the hickey and teasing him for it. (Also I have been wondering if Mr Farouk heard any of Nick and Ben's conversations during Study Hall cause like...with how quiet it was and the fact he must have been nearby Mr Farouk must have gleaned some of it. Which might be why he punishes Ben so much as well as might be an ulterior motive for him putting them together in solitary to sort things out. Might just be over reaching though)
I do love the subtle comparisson of Darcy's reaction to having unaccepting parents to Ben's throughout the series. I cannot wait until episode 7 where we can REALLY get into Ben's revisionist ideas about his relationship with Charlie. It really goes to show that sometimes it is easy to delude yourself when you're trying to escape some kind of pain. Ben is so obsessed with keeping up appearences with everyone and you can kind of see it fall apart once Imogen calls it out. He no longer sits with his 'friends', he is always standing alone when we see him like when he's assigned to work with Nick, and in the next episode he's alone at Tara's party and is only included when it was something the whole room was doing. And metaphorically later on in THE SCENE we see him start out hiding and then coming up alone comparred to Nick and Charlie walking together openly out of an accepting event.
Funfact, in one interview with Rhea she admitted that Imogen's fear in the Eiffel Tower scene is her actual fear of heights. She was so terrified of climbing the Eiffel Tower for that scene and I honestly feel for her XD I love everything on the EIffel Tower, it's so cute and wholesome ontop of everything you said about Nick's confidence being so much stronger. It is crazy how seamlessly they added people to the Louvre scenes. Major props to the editing team, which we all love all the little animations so already major love to them. I feel like Nick has been the biggest supporter of Tao and Elle's feelings even with just being subtle and kind to both of them about their emotions. He constantly talks to Tao about Elle, tries to talk to Tao about how it'd feel to have Elle leave for another school cause he knows it must suck, and helps him with his own image issues, and then helps Elle with his Wise quote of her own statement and even offering earlier to let them sit near each other. I do love how well they handled Charlie passing out. Isacc's running is amazing, and i feel like not enough people talk about how quickly he books it (Lol accidental pun) Isaac cares so much for his friends and despite the fact he usually is in his own world, and takes things slow, the moment he realizes what's wrong he shows such determination and worry. Love Isacc's character
Thank you for this in-depth comment and for sharing how these moments touched you, personally. I agree with nearly everything you said. I’m sure if we were in person we could have a two hour discussion, but I can’t think of anything to add here other than to say I think Harry finds it entertaining to make Charlie uncomfortable with his loud attention until it clicks for him that Nick is also involved, at which point he redirects to be respectful to Nick. Since Harry has history with Nick, Nick is a real person to him instead of a plaything, and he doesn’t want to make things worse with Nick.
Yeah i think you're right about him enjoying making Charlie uncomfortable. That's a good point honestly about Harry backing off, cause even looking at season 1 you can see that Harry values Nick's opinion or at least being on good terms with Nick. Either option because everyone just loves Nick, which is understandable lol Looking at it that way it does feel more in his character to take attention away from them cause he wants back into not being ostracized. Maybe it'll lead to accidental growth lol
9:52 I find it interesting that sahar is there, in the comics she finds out at truth or dare but in the show she just always knows? Strange to me
Charlie’s Jumpers are a Pinterest Mood Board 👚
thank you so much for your words, Thom ❤
3:36 Papa left him seenzoned #NeCoolPas
I need to make #NeCoolPas part of my vocabulary. It's just the best. Let's torture Nick's dad with bad french until he sees his sons would have needed him to take more interest in their lives.
😂
Love the talk between nick and elle and hell yeah Charlie is so triggered from Ben and understand tao he wanna protect Charlie all we now is Charlie don't like in the point of view
Even though the episodes this season are only a few minutes longer, they got so much juicier! Especially 4 and 5. I wonder if that is in part due to the involvement of story consultant Lauren James, who is a YA novellist in her own right and if you haven't read her books, I really recommend them! The Quiet At the End of the World is my favourite so far (+trans rep!) but I really enjoy all of them.
I also always use the broken leg analogy when it comes to mental health. But its different too, because my broken leg tells me that I'm better off with a broken leg because it gives me a cool limp, and that a doctor wouldn't believe my leg was broken anyway because it is still attached, so there's no point trying to get any help with the broken leg, and also that if anyone finds out my leg is broken they will think I'm an idiot for breaking it in the first place so it's much better if nobody knows I'm in constant pain... I'm saying all this from a pretty positive mental health state at the moment so I know its all bullshit and that broken legs can't talk, but I equally know that once that leg breaks, damn she's loud and she wants to stick around.
I think Nick handles his conversation after Charlie fainting soooo beautifully. Exactly as you said, gentle but direct, and I could really have used someone talking to me that way when I was at my worst. Even so, eating disorders make you lie, and Charlie plays down how bad things are to Nick. He says 'sometimes I'm fine' but I don't think that's been the case since the cinema trip. Even on beach day, he and Nick are sharing fish and chips between them, which is kind of unusual. Other than that, all season we've only seen him apparently eat the ice-cream, and according to Nick, maybe a small breakfast that day. The Oreo chocolate bar gift breaks me everytime - its another tiny way for Charlie to torture himself with food, by buying it and giving it away. We know that when he gets home, even once Nick is out and the stress is apparently over, things don't improve before the end of the season. I'm so glad Charlie is able to say something to Nick because its the start of his road to recovery, but it also makes me so sad that he can't be completely honest here and that Nick doesn't do enough (its not really his fault, how is he supposed to know?). He needs to find Tao, Elle and Isaac, sit them down at the cafe with Charlie and go see his dad by himself. Sorry Nick, Charlie's health comes first!
I am looking forward to the 2-3 hour video on Episode 8!
While I obviously don’t enjoy seeing Charlie suffer and feel compelled to hide it, I liked the way this season really showed us Charlie’s tendency to lie about things that are difficult or hurting him, more so than we saw in the comics. It feels a lot more realistic to me, and sets the scene for season 3/volume 4.
We saw it with the coursework arc, with Charlie calmly lying to Nick’s face about being done. Though not as serious an issue as his ED obviously, I do think there was more going on there than just procrastination. We’ve also seen it in the way Charlie handles Nick’s coming out. In the comic he tells Nick he’s terrified of the attention he’ll get when they’re out as a couple. He shares none of those worries with Nick in the show. In the comic Charlie opens up about self-harm with basically no nudging, pre-Paris. In the show it takes Nick noticing that Charlie is hiding things and really pushing him to open up. And not to get ahead of ourselves, but I immediately noticed that while in the comic Charlie tells Nick he “hardly ever” self harms, in the show he just says he doesn’t do it at all anymore. I would like to believe he’s being honest, but… *gestures at everything I’ve written above*
I just feel like if I were their classmate I would’ve known it was from Nick they are constantly together Nick be posting pictures of Charlie on his insta they were literally holding hands going up the tower like it was obvious
Nick's aura of being "sporty" and "laddish" was hard to overcome, I suppose. Him and Charlie staring lovingly at each other, holding hands, and hugging like they hadn't seen in each other in decades was just a case of dudes being dudes, bros being bros, mates being mates! (Of course.)
I think it’s funny that NO one assumed it was Tao, and the only one who even had a passing thought it could be Isaac was James. They’ve both been by Charlie’s side for ages, and neither are particularly laddish and beyond credulity, but they were exempted from speculation. Perhaps the thought was that if it was either of them, they would have gotten together sooner, since they’ve known each other for ages?
28:28 not gonna lie... at this point I started laughing because Ben is delusional
Thank you for making my Sunday with this reaction! Also, the Paris Squad is here to slay ❤
Tao in this episode as a Bothered King >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Imogen may look scared but Sahar was afraid of heights IRL
Forgot to add how gutted I am that we don't get the 'beanie in the swimming pool' line from Darcy, although I get tonally it probably wouldn't fit. But I love that whole exchange so much...
Just some random thought/observations prompted by this episode, only some of which are nit-picky.
- Mr. Farouk has the finest-honed gaydar in all the land. Just look at the precision with which he pairs up the queer kids on this trip: the two gay boys? Check. The bi boys? Check. The bi(?) girls? Also check. The lesbians? Yep, check again. The aro(?)/ace kid and the incel? Meh, close enough 😋.
- For a year and a half people have been confidently saying that Tao felt guilty about outing Charlie, and this has upset me greatly because they were Wrong on the Internet about it all that time. I honestly don't know how I feel about them now having been made retroactively right.
- Nick and Charlie consistently act suspiciously couply in front of Sahar without acknowledging that they have not officially come out to her. I don't know if this says that they're just instantly comfortable around her because she comes to the group via Tara, Darcy, and Elle or if they just generally don't notice her.
- The dates. THE DATES!!!!! in this season hurt my soul. I can tell you to within a couple of days exactly what day/date almost any given scene in season 1 took place. And now not only can none of the dates seen on screen in this season not have taken place in the same year as season 1, some of them cannot have taken place in the same year as other scenes in season 2. Who let this happen? Who allowed such disdain and dishonor to fall upon my spreadsheet in this manner?😱
I KNOW, RIGHT?? I made a timeline for Season 1 and Season 2 to compare them to the timeline in the comics, and I noticed the Season 2 dates were off. Why was this not fixed in post? These are some of the most detail-oriented production teams out there - how did this happen??
I had read Vol 1-4 when making comments on S1 videos about Tao feeling bad for accidentally outing Charlie. People got very upset with me any time I mentioned that, for some odd reason, and would argue with me. They’re not retroactively right; they probably had read the books.
Dont appologise for length love ya deep discussions about the episode Its a change of pace compared to other reactioners ❤
FWIW on Ben: I broadly agree with what you're saying, but I do also think that in the text of the show we are supposed to take Ben's episode seven statement that he really did like Charlie as truthful, and especially when he involuntarily smiles when Charlie brings up their first kiss.
I think that scene in particular is supposed to be read as a genuine moment there, and the takeaway being that Ben's (genuine) feelings for Charlie cannot and do not excuse the abuse and power dynamic of their relationship.
The things Issac loves are Books and his friends... What more does he need?
5:02 I think the Hickey Drama never really goes away 🔥
i enjoyed every minute of this video. i'm so looking forward to seeing your reaction to episode 8💞
Nothing against Tao and Elle's wonderful first kiss(es), but if they had seen Heartstopper S1E3, they would have known that it's possible to ask if someone wants to kiss. I mean we're probably supposed to believe that they know each other so well from being best friends forever, that they can communicate everything without words, but just putting this out there since this is the second time Elle goes in for a kiss and is rebuffed by surprised Tao and it hurts my heart. But, of course, this makes for a more dramatic show for ratings. Poor babies. 💔
Perhaps they are too young to have a Netflix account to be up-to-date on these things. I will give them access to mine. Honestly, I only use it for Heartstopper, rewatches so it will be right there in the “continue watching” row.
Does Harry have a different set of friends in every episode?
What you don't understand is that iPhones automatically translate French text to English and English to French. Ain't technology grand? (I assume you're buying that)
😂
Here's my two cents with Nick and Charlie this episode. I think Nick fails to protect Charlie in the hickey situation and it really irks me, tbh. He sits by not once, but twice, as people mock Charlie and speculate about who gave him the hickey. Should he have come out and said it was him who did it? If he wasn't ready, I don't think that was necessary. But he should have at least piped up and said it's not funny that people are making fun of Charlie and it's not right to speculate on who did it? Yes. Maybe some might have thought it was suspicious, but it's clear that Nick and Charlie are 'mates' even to those who don't know they are dating, so it would hardly be out of character or weird for a presumed 'straight' friend to stand up for his gay friend who is getting bullied and mocked. Fans swoon when he finally does the bare minimum on the Eiffel Tower, and so does Charlie, but really I feel it's only right that Nick finally does the right thing after repeatedly letting Charlie down, especially since the hickey was (unintentionally) his fault in the first place. #IStandWithTao Perhaps it's in part because Charlie keeps deflecting and covering up how much the bullying has traumatized him in the past, and of course these are 15-16-year-olds doing their best in challenging situations, but I really think that by this point, Nick should be doing a better job at protecting his boyfriend. Charlie is ride or die for Nick and would sacrifice almost everything to protect him, but Nick at this point doesn't seem able to, even though he's 2-3 times Charlie's size and could easily deck someone as obnoxious as Harry or Ben if he needed to. It makes me sad that the fans generally don't give Charlie his flowers. He's literally the sweetest and most considerate person ever... but he's not played by Kit Connor, so.... 👀
As someone who would definitely sit there like Nick and not know what to say (and always admire Tao for speaking up so loudly for his friends), I absolutely agree with you on this. It's very rare that people notice the problems Nick has, since season 1 he has been the perfect golden boy that everyone wants to either have or be, and even now in season 2, where he's allowed more depth and family history, that still lingers. I, too, wish people would see how awesome Charlie is. Nick even spelled it out for us in S1E8, but alas. (And, yes, of course, part of that is that he gives too much and suffers from it, he will need to find a balance of not putting himself last anymore.)
I am so looking forward to seeing Thom's comments on the episodes with Nick's dad (NO RUSH, THOM, I SWEAR, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHEN THEY'LL BE READY, PLEASE TAKE ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD, SORRY FOR YELLING BUT I'M SCARED OF BEING MISUNDERSTOOD HERE) and the discussion in the comments. I am excited to find out what it means (to other people) that Nick had the season 1 mannerisms of the wave and the shoulder pat from his (absent) dad, for example. (And to find out all the things I haven't even thought about yet.)
I think you make a good point but I wonder if, before breakfast, Charlie and Nick have had a conversation like:
Nick: we could just tell people it was me
Charlie: No! You are not ready. It will just bring more attention on us.
Nick: Char...
Charlie: really, I want to just ignore it. I don't want you to have to come out that way.
Nick: if that's what you want
Charlie: it really is.
I'm not making excuses for Nick, he does the wrong thing, but I can see how Charlie would convince himself it's better for both of them for Nick not to say anything. And Nick would gladly hide behind the excuse that it's what Charlie wants.
Maybe I'm bringing too much of my personal experience in to this but Charlie at this point is really unwell. He is literally trying to make himself disappear. He just wants the whole thing to go away and he will be 100% blaming himself for not stopping Nick (remember that voice he tells Ben about in ep7) and see it as his responsibility to bear this, not Nick's. You are right, Nick could have done better, but I think Charlie will have given him the perfect get-out clause to make his course of action seem like the right way to go.
#IStandWithTao
Nick has just confessed to Tao that he thinks he’s really cool for caring about his friends so loudly. All he had to do was follow Tao’s example here about telling people to pipe down. Not follow Tao’s example of talking about it at the breakfast table, tho….
I mean Charlie's friends could have said sth about it as well when he was getting low-key bullied about it because they are you know , his friends and Nick didn't mean to give him a hickey but they didn't. It was perhaps an unanimous decision to ignore the dumb hickey questions as much as they could. If someone would have caught on and started harassing Nick about it Charlie would have felt horrible about it. So as shitty as it is and not agreeing completely with how they handled it I don't think Nick deserves this scolding entirely.
Baby Queen is the band at the prom
Does Sahar know about Nick and Charlie?
I would imagine that if she doesn't at first, she's learned about it soon enough from hanging out with the Paris squad. When Nick is not around the larger school group, he becomes quite unguarded about expressing his affection for Charlie.
She's sitting with the gang when Tao comments on Charlie's hicky, holding Nick responsible.
I did think about this - Nick and Charlie don't formally come out to Sahar and both Sahar and James were introduced to N and C at the Paris planning meeting. Yet James doesn't know that Nick and Charlie are a couple until Truth/Dare even though he hangs with them all through the days in Paris. So yeah, thought that was a bit odd.
I've seen people like Ben. Gay or not, he is cruel and abusive. He comments and actions towards Charlie are those of a psychopath and way over the top. If he gets help, he still most likely will always be cruel and hateful.
While I love your insights, I wish you jump in the middle of many scenes with extensive commentary. Ex. When Nick says, "You know it was me, don't you?"
Thom, I just love your videos! 🌈💛
Fun Fact Yaz Can’t draw at all :)
Sorry, just to interject against one part of what he said, when someone breaks their leg there is at least a 40% chance I will say they did that to themselves. My sympathy is short