Watto decks back in the day were really tricky to beat, I disagree about tier D but the V cards since may have nerfed it. Watto, some high end power characters with ships and many cheapo characters for low deploy and flip. So you flip turn one, place useless card down, LS must lose two force as they have no force pile to use, and consolidate by moving everyone at Mos Espa to Wattos place. Turn two, same again, if the LS leaves two, you place mid tier useful card down as you expect them to pay. It’s basically a low form of bluffing poker style. One of my counters was to shove the generic Spaceport DB in between their locations on my first turn and bugger up the ability to move from Mos Espa to Wattos place at the end of each of their turns.
This is a really great point, and maybe I should revisit a watto deck myself. I haven’t tried the objective in 20 years. It was challenging to find “bad” ds objectives. They’re all somewhat viable.
Played DS lightsaber combat at two Deciphercon Worlds, it won every single game, so you can’t tell me it didn’t work. Beat some notable players along the way too. But then I ran four Mauls, six Phantom Menace (for duelling and battling defence), Vader w/ sabre and Circle for Obi, Sidious for most others, Emperor, lightning and Dr E for battles, Crush the Rebellion to stop Clash AND grab IHYN, two Force Field. And so on. It was an absolute beast, basically the deck equivalent of “come at me bro” and if you did, you’d get nuked in response. Plus it had enough firepower to both drain (I lose one to make you lose four) or battle elsewhere on the ground or in space.
Be curious to make something that and try again today! I do love playing with Maul and Phantom Menace is such a nice card. Useful and a destiny 7… can’t complain with that.
Two small quibbles (and I love these videos and this content, not throwing shade at all!): I do remember Watto kinda being the deck to beat after Tattoine, it and Brangus were the kinda finicky tracking intensive skill-rewarding DS decks except Watto got more good cards and could play a small package that would pretend to compete with broken LS podracing. I also feel like DS Senate was the way to go until Ref III hit and changed how everything works. Also, right after EJP and through DS2, Profit was EVERYWHERE so CCT could be a weird metagame call where you figured 5/7 decks you'd play would be Profit, you'd start flipped and might actually be able to defend audience chamber and in the other two games you'd play like a worse version of TDIGWATT
Appreciate the feedback! I might have left the competitive scene when watto was blowing up. I’ll have to think about making one myself. Seems like a fun concept. I struggled to make this list much more then the LS one as most of these objectives are pretty decent. Always love a discussion on these and hope to do more!
Thanks for these videos, very useful! As a returning player who stopped when Special Edition came out back in the day, there is a lot to learn.. (and objectives are clearly part of that). Sincere question: you put senate in tier C, but three out of the top-4 players of the recent Decipher Cards Only retro event played senate for DS. I've heard several times that senate is not fun to play, but from this top-4 it seems that DS senate is very viable - or was this due to the particular dynamics of this event? (E.g., is it a good match-up against LS combat, which seems very strong in DCO?) Curious to hear your (and others) thoughts.
Hey there, thanks for the question. Always welcome back returning players! I’m about to do a whole series for returning players so stay tuned. So I’ll preface this by saying, I’m not a great player myself. I play with friends around town and on GEMP but I’m not out there winning any sort of tournament. Just doing this for fun. This video was intended to be our take on objectives, and I think we might have misevaluated a couple based on our own experience. The Watto’s junkyard, for example, is really good apparently, which I’ve just never played against. I think DS Senate has evolved a lot since I played it 20 years ago and folks know how to run it better and more efficiently then I ever did when I played in tournaments. So perhaps it should get moved up along with Watto’s junkyard. We struggled with this because all the DS objectives are pretty good, to be honest.
Thanks for the detailed response! Indeed, DS objectives seem diverse and generally good. Looking forward to the series. Would be interesting to hear your take on the different formats. Of the retro formats, P-DSII, P-Ref2 and DCO currently get a lot of attention and play, for apparent and good reasons. From my (admittedly limited) perspective, Classic (non-v) gets less attention and play, although it seems to provide an interesting meta: it avoid the most obvious power creep (i.e., Episode I and maintenance cards) that helps to keep many other strategies viable, while providing access to some useful helper cards (e.g., A Million Voices Crying Out and They Must Never Again Leave This City) that strengthen some older objectives, and to additional combo cards that improve card efficiency. Thoughts welcome!
Everything I brought to the table with my DS lightsaber combat I learned from playing BHBM. Force Field and Crush the Rebellion are gods. Note that you only take Luke out of play where Vader is. You have people elsewhere, Luke can repeatedly deploy from lost pile to attack them. The funniest card I put in the deck was Human Shield. The look when they think they’ve got past Force Field and managed to hit Vader, sorry you hit Luke instead heh.
Watto decks back in the day were really tricky to beat, I disagree about tier D but the V cards since may have nerfed it. Watto, some high end power characters with ships and many cheapo characters for low deploy and flip. So you flip turn one, place useless card down, LS must lose two force as they have no force pile to use, and consolidate by moving everyone at Mos Espa to Wattos place. Turn two, same again, if the LS leaves two, you place mid tier useful card down as you expect them to pay. It’s basically a low form of bluffing poker style.
One of my counters was to shove the generic Spaceport DB in between their locations on my first turn and bugger up the ability to move from Mos Espa to Wattos place at the end of each of their turns.
This is a really great point, and maybe I should revisit a watto deck myself. I haven’t tried the objective in 20 years. It was challenging to find “bad” ds objectives. They’re all somewhat viable.
Played DS lightsaber combat at two Deciphercon Worlds, it won every single game, so you can’t tell me it didn’t work. Beat some notable players along the way too. But then I ran four Mauls, six Phantom Menace (for duelling and battling defence), Vader w/ sabre and Circle for Obi, Sidious for most others, Emperor, lightning and Dr E for battles, Crush the Rebellion to stop Clash AND grab IHYN, two Force Field. And so on. It was an absolute beast, basically the deck equivalent of “come at me bro” and if you did, you’d get nuked in response. Plus it had enough firepower to both drain (I lose one to make you lose four) or battle elsewhere on the ground or in space.
Be curious to make something that and try again today! I do love playing with Maul and Phantom Menace is such a nice card. Useful and a destiny 7… can’t complain with that.
Two small quibbles (and I love these videos and this content, not throwing shade at all!): I do remember Watto kinda being the deck to beat after Tattoine, it and Brangus were the kinda finicky tracking intensive skill-rewarding DS decks except Watto got more good cards and could play a small package that would pretend to compete with broken LS podracing. I also feel like DS Senate was the way to go until Ref III hit and changed how everything works.
Also, right after EJP and through DS2, Profit was EVERYWHERE so CCT could be a weird metagame call where you figured 5/7 decks you'd play would be Profit, you'd start flipped and might actually be able to defend audience chamber and in the other two games you'd play like a worse version of TDIGWATT
Appreciate the feedback! I might have left the competitive scene when watto was blowing up. I’ll have to think about making one myself. Seems like a fun concept. I struggled to make this list much more then the LS one as most of these objectives are pretty decent.
Always love a discussion on these and hope to do more!
Hah yeah I played a version of Brangus Glee on Set Your Course with pod racing too…
Thanks for these videos, very useful! As a returning player who stopped when Special Edition came out back in the day, there is a lot to learn.. (and objectives are clearly part of that). Sincere question: you put senate in tier C, but three out of the top-4 players of the recent Decipher Cards Only retro event played senate for DS. I've heard several times that senate is not fun to play, but from this top-4 it seems that DS senate is very viable - or was this due to the particular dynamics of this event? (E.g., is it a good match-up against LS combat, which seems very strong in DCO?) Curious to hear your (and others) thoughts.
Hey there, thanks for the question. Always welcome back returning players! I’m about to do a whole series for returning players so stay tuned. So I’ll preface this by saying, I’m not a great player myself. I play with friends around town and on GEMP but I’m not out there winning any sort of tournament. Just doing this for fun.
This video was intended to be our take on objectives, and I think we might have misevaluated a couple based on our own experience. The Watto’s junkyard, for example, is really good apparently, which I’ve just never played against.
I think DS Senate has evolved a lot since I played it 20 years ago and folks know how to run it better and more efficiently then I ever did when I played in tournaments. So perhaps it should get moved up along with Watto’s junkyard. We struggled with this because all the DS objectives are pretty good, to be honest.
Thanks for the detailed response! Indeed, DS objectives seem diverse and generally good.
Looking forward to the series. Would be interesting to hear your take on the different formats. Of the retro formats, P-DSII, P-Ref2 and DCO currently get a lot of attention and play, for apparent and good reasons. From my (admittedly limited) perspective, Classic (non-v) gets less attention and play, although it seems to provide an interesting meta: it avoid the most obvious power creep (i.e., Episode I and maintenance cards) that helps to keep many other strategies viable, while providing access to some useful helper cards (e.g., A Million Voices Crying Out and They Must Never Again Leave This City) that strengthen some older objectives, and to additional combo cards that improve card efficiency. Thoughts welcome!
Can you do a list with virtual cards? I love these kinds of discussions
Everything I brought to the table with my DS lightsaber combat I learned from playing BHBM. Force Field and Crush the Rebellion are gods. Note that you only take Luke out of play where Vader is. You have people elsewhere, Luke can repeatedly deploy from lost pile to attack them. The funniest card I put in the deck was Human Shield. The look when they think they’ve got past Force Field and managed to hit Vader, sorry you hit Luke instead heh.
The Reflections 2 objectives for Shadow of the Empire were my favorite objectives.
Good stuff - thanks
Hey, great videos. Is there any sites for deck lists.
swccgdb.com/decklists
This has quite a few on there. Also check out scomp.starwarsccg.org/ to search for card text.
Disagree on watto! That objective is so good!
Now I need to go build a watto deck… there was definitely a prem-ds2 bias…