Back to basics - how to set gains

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  • Опубликовано: 25 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 113

  • @speedpros
    @speedpros Месяц назад +22

    Man you are the most thorough car audio teacher ever on the internet, you put the industry to shame with their sell everything but explain nothing to the consumer. Imagine the equipment people would not or would have bought if they understood what it does and how to use it. Every dsp company keeps everything murky but at the same time throw tech data at you like the average consumer helped build it or something. I appreciate this channel more than any mobile class I seen or been too

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад +3

      Thank you very much, that means a lot🥰

    • @whitmorestrains
      @whitmorestrains Месяц назад +2

      It’s true. I’m old now, and this is the first set of videos that put all of this stuff together. It’s not rocket science after all, but this industry runs on rumors and opinions. Thanks for taking the time to explain so many things. Leave these up. I reference them a lot.

    • @davorinmilinovic3164
      @davorinmilinovic3164 Месяц назад +3

      It would be useful if at least official resellers of known brands that also do installment and tunning, would know what they are doing. I bought mosconi gladen combo with official reseller in our country and they suppose to do tunning even for competitions, but what I have got was disaster. I have spent tens of hours of learning and trying to properly tune system. Now system is light years better compared from what I have got from tunning guys. They did correct only time alignment. Everything else was dead wrong.

  • @ariakhosravi
    @ariakhosravi Месяц назад +7

    I love that you’re using the same oscilloscope that they trashed me in your group for using to set my gains 😂 Facebook users are some funny people, Mr. Nerijus. Thank you as always for what you do for the community.

  • @sibusisomasina753
    @sibusisomasina753 Месяц назад +2

    In my opinion this got to be one of the first go to videos when starting a car audio project, nice one and we'll done sir

  • @robertappleyard7053
    @robertappleyard7053 Месяц назад +1

    Another excellent tutorial Nerijus, thank you. Edit. I just went and moved all of my gains to 2V (5V source). I will have to redo my eq because I must’ve had distortion but even as is, its nothing short of a magical transformation. I have so much more tone in the bass and the highs are so clean. Fabulous. Even the led “power” meter in my old Alpine eq now tracks in parallel with volume.

  • @Bob-pd9ge
    @Bob-pd9ge 8 дней назад

    Best
    Content
    Hands DOWN!!!!

  • @D4S-JAKE
    @D4S-JAKE Месяц назад +3

    💯 best teacher ever

  • @SG-Cichlids
    @SG-Cichlids Месяц назад

    What are breath of fresh air. I've been preaching speaker efficiency/sensitivity and head room forever it seems like. Still people want to buy the hyped up brands they see on RUclips thinking that's the only way to be loud. In my car I have a 400 watt amp on mids and highs, and a 1500 watt amp on one 12 inch sub. When people get in they're shocked at how loud and clean my stereo is. They ask what it meters and when I tell them. They say that's not possible with that much power and one 12. Terrific video, terrific channel!

  • @PedroCampagnoli
    @PedroCampagnoli Месяц назад +4

    Nice video as always, keep up mate!

  • @coprasfayarx9283
    @coprasfayarx9283 Месяц назад

    Very interesting! I always thought my gain was off, but now I reduced it by 30% since I don’t need the extra power. I definitely prefer a cleaner sound over 100% output.
    Also, it’s important to test if your head unit clips, so you can fully trust your setup.
    Thanks! I really appreciate your work
    you helped me understand how gain works, and it makes so much more sense now. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge

  • @stejeranis
    @stejeranis Месяц назад

    Thank you very much for the very detailed explanation.

  • @BillLambert
    @BillLambert Месяц назад +4

    Yup. Keep the amplifier gains low, and keep the source/DSP/EQ gains as high as possible. In the pro audio world, we call this "gain staging". You want the loudest, cleanest signal from the source and then apply as little gain as possible later on, because each time you add gain, you are also amplifying the noise floor. High volts from the head unit if possible, and high volts from the DSP, will ensure clean, low-noise signal going into the amp.

    • @AcidDeathRitual
      @AcidDeathRitual Месяц назад

      LOL, I know that feel all too well when I first started DJing and had crappy audio interface and mixer, high end suffered especially with the stage monitors.

    • @raulboomin
      @raulboomin Месяц назад

      What about amplifier input sensitivity? I know you want to send the cleanest signal as possible to your amplifiers. Is there such thing as sending, “too hot” of a signal to the amplifiers? Let’s say the max input sensitivity of an amp is 6v. If you send anything higher than that, would that lead to problems?

    • @justinhogan7248
      @justinhogan7248 Месяц назад

      ​@raulboomin yes that's called clipping the input and it's no good.

  • @cnkyy
    @cnkyy Месяц назад +1

    Thanks so much for this! That 10 channel looks awesome

  • @robertoortiz85
    @robertoortiz85 Месяц назад

    This is what i was currently looking for

  • @investinghutler5323
    @investinghutler5323 Месяц назад

    I have learned so muchhh from you 👏🏽 thank you sooooo much!!! You just know how to explain it simply 👍🏽

  • @dahack1
    @dahack1 Месяц назад

    This is the one I was asking for.👍 Eager to watch it

    • @dahack1
      @dahack1 Месяц назад

      I have the same oscilloscope model 😅

    • @dahack1
      @dahack1 Месяц назад

      Hitting the like button straight away😊

  • @woldemortxyz7996
    @woldemortxyz7996 Месяц назад +2

    I still like to set all my gains before I start EQing, with all the levels and EQ set to 0 on the DSP.
    Just because I don't trust the manufacturers. E.g. the helix dsp.3 says it outputs 6V, but I measured 6.7V out from mine with the BT Hec card.
    I'm not complaining, but I had to turn the DSP down 1.5dB so I got 6V, then I had to turn up the gain a little on most of my amps to get the rated voltage, even though their gain was rated to 6V.
    Then again, if you have very insensitive drivers, you can often turn the gain to +3 or +5dB, because most music is mastered to a -5dB level or lower, and you will get "more output", or actually rated.
    In a full SQ car it is pretty irrelevant, but if you e.g. want to play with the doors open some time or something, you can easily blast at full volume and can then cause clipping if the gains are not set.
    Of course when the gains are set with 0dB from the DSP, you'll have to always keep the maximum level at 0dB too, with level and EQ.

    • @TheSteelerKillers
      @TheSteelerKillers Месяц назад

      What phone do u use Bec i have the same dsp with bt with a iPhone 15pro and only getting 4 volt out

  • @beoddtodd1726
    @beoddtodd1726 Месяц назад

    I agree with everything said here. BUT there is one thing to remember. Alot of us are constantly tinkering and messing with things. So for those that don't want to constantly readjusting gains every time you eq or change speakers or config. You can make some simple rules on yourself.
    If you set gains at at 0db. Then when u eq. don't boost above 0db(overall boost as you mentioned) Or leave your self some leeway. set gains at +3 or +6db output. then you'll forever have room to boost to those levels without clipping.
    This all also assumes at some point you're gonna play FULL 100% volume. so you're actually reaching the full +6db boost at that point.

  • @chrishuyler3580
    @chrishuyler3580 Месяц назад

    Using a 0db source signal is certainly the safest option, but for low power systems, you may find you don't get enough volume out of music that is recorded at lower levels. I usually start with -6db signal to leave headroom for quiet tracks...but with a modern DSP connected to an old school amplifier, you're always going to end up with gains set to minimum.

  • @jcooksey19
    @jcooksey19 Месяц назад

    Wow very informative going to turn mine down now. My HU puts out 4V and my jp84 is 6V

  • @Dav.vid1
    @Dav.vid1 Месяц назад +6

    As always, very informative vid. The 1000hz/40hz method doesn’t work for me.

  • @DIYAudioGuy
    @DIYAudioGuy 21 день назад

    12:00 Yep.

  • @mckinleyhodges4845
    @mckinleyhodges4845 29 дней назад

    Your vids are great learning tools! What windows program are you using for the tone generator?

  • @f.j.z3213
    @f.j.z3213 Месяц назад +2

    70 sek and you are alredy exsplaining it bether then most videos. 👍

  • @shakir43shaq86
    @shakir43shaq86 Месяц назад +3

    Hello lovely people😀

  • @asdfasdfasdfae
    @asdfasdfasdfae Месяц назад +1

    Do I need to mess with gain on my DSP/AMP helix combo(m six dsp) if i use optical as input? How does gain work with optical as input? assuming highest EQ is at 0db or no EQ at all?
    Thank you for this.

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад

      Optical automatically will be maxed out. There is no gain stricture with digital signals.

  • @julesbruchez-theartofgrapp9646
    @julesbruchez-theartofgrapp9646 8 дней назад

    Wait? What level should the head unit and amps set at to actually set the DSP EQ? That way then I can go back and set the gains for the amps? I normally just set everything with an Oscilloscope. I was lucky I have clipping indicators on my JL Audio 900/5

  • @Dav.vid1
    @Dav.vid1 Месяц назад +4

    So I’ve been doing wrong this whole time by automatically turning all the amp pots all the way up?

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад +3

      Lol how else would you adjust the volume?😂

    • @Dav.vid1
      @Dav.vid1 Месяц назад +1

      @@RAW-CAt 😂😂

  • @jonesaleroy
    @jonesaleroy Месяц назад +1

    Morning Raw. What about compression and expansion while using an EQ? I've run into this issue myself and try to eq last.

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад

      What compression and expansion are you talking about exactly?

    • @jonesaleroy
      @jonesaleroy Месяц назад

      @@RAW-CAt basically as you know at every frequency there are layers of different sounds. Well when you add to a frequency it pulls the very top layers first causing uneven gain from the top
      Layer to the bottom depending on level. Opposite is true for cutting. It basically smashes the layers together. I know this for a fact. For one I could hear it and afterwards dug into the topic. Real issue studios deal with. My daughter plays live music and is a communications major in college and we've talked about this subject and the audibly of it. I also know this is way outside most people's interests.

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад

      @@jonesaleroy I'm not sure that is an actual issue when having 24bit content and max cut and boosts of +/-10dB.

  • @kewlbug
    @kewlbug Месяц назад

    Good morning Mr. Cat

  • @gabrielsolomon4540
    @gabrielsolomon4540 Месяц назад

    Very useful video. But I have a question. I have a Helix DSP.3S which outputs 6 Volts connected to an Audison APBX 10 AS2 which has a gain of 0.1 ÷ 4. So I put the gain on the Audison sub on 4 but there is no bass. I tried fixing it from the DSP but it didn't work. The Audison sub also has a Bass Boost knob from 0 to 6 db. Should I use the Bass Boost or up the gain on the sub amp to get some bass?

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад

      First figure out why there is no signal. What is feeding the DSP?

    • @gabrielsolomon4540
      @gabrielsolomon4540 Месяц назад

      @@RAW-CAt I meant there is not enough bass. I didn't set the gain on the DSP.3S. It was set at 11v on high level input. I finally set it to 2.7v.

  • @Inimical_imi
    @Inimical_imi Месяц назад

    So i’m torn for a dsp after your last vid. Was going to go the ez dsp 12 channel. But now i’m debating if i should just get a minidsp and upgrade to drac live later? I’ll probably be gravitating more toward spl in the future rather than sq.

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад

      Choosing a DSP is a difficult thing. The good thing is that you don't have to stick with it for life. If you won't like it, you can try something else.

  • @Mark_5150
    @Mark_5150 Месяц назад

    93dB sensitivity with 1 watt, EMMA SQ judging is at 85dB.
    I clamped all the channels on my car at 104dB at the headrest, Mids and tweets less than 1W, midbass was 1W, front sub was 7W trunk baffle sub was 180W.
    I have all my gains all the way down except for the subs, so I don't bother with them either.
    I have a question though, if you adjust your gains after then doesn't that messes up your levels in your tune? So it's better to match DSP to amp at the beginning and just have headroom, like you said.
    i think there are so many "adjusting gains" videos because people treat it as a volume knob.

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад

      It does mess up with the level matching indeed. It would be a back and forth game checking and adjusting. The only time I had to adjust the gains on an amplifier was after cutting midbass with EQ (to get rid of the cancellations) and then bringing the level up🤷

  • @thatguykai479
    @thatguykai479 Месяц назад

    Thoughts on setting gain with a sweep over a singular sine wave let’s say a sweep 25-150 you make a smooth response with an O scope from let’s say your box is great from 32-60 hz so I make a smooth response as much output as possible without clipping from 30-80 with the sweep instead of just let’s say a singular sine wave 30 hz and a 40 hz because that would mean my music plays well from 30 through 80 with no clipping compared to just music that plays at 30 and 40hz. Been tuning all my subwoofers like this when it comes to gain it always sounds great compared to using independent tones just wanted your opinion.

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад +1

      In my opinion, there is no need to reinvent the wheel🤷 It does not matter what your subs or box is playing , for setting the gains all that matters is the electrical signal. And if using a DSP, that signal is clearly seen in the individual EQ window.

  • @mrpres17
    @mrpres17 Месяц назад

    In your example you set your gain to be optimized at 450hz because it was the loudest frequency in the dsp. Why would it clip at 900hz if the eq was flat at that frequency? Wouldn't everything not clip anymore because it would be quiter than 450hz?

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад

      With that example 450Hz was at -6dB which was the lowest point in the EQ curve and 900Hz was +6dB.

  • @ssjdavid
    @ssjdavid Месяц назад

    Do you prefer to tune with your phone or laptop? Waiting on my first official dsp to arrive (d4s ezdsp)

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад

      I always tune with a laptop. I use the phone to test some things, like different crossovers or muting drivers.

  • @dsk-xx
    @dsk-xx Месяц назад

    Some give target voltage formula. √P*R .
    Most of times it lands amp in clipping zone

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад

      Target voltage is valid only if the amplifier is true to the power ratings and you have a specific voltage on the power terminals.

  • @chiernguy5457
    @chiernguy5457 Месяц назад

    After I've tuned my dsp and match my levels, will setting the gains on the amp to match the dsp change the levels I've previously set?

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад +1

      Yes, it will. The only time I personally needed to increase the gains is on a few midbass drivers after cutting a lot with EQ. Never had to do that on tweeters or midranges.

  • @mugsybonze968
    @mugsybonze968 Месяц назад

    Just to make sure I have stetsom stx dsp 2848 voltage is 5.6 with amp voltage is 8 to 16 volt do I need volt more or not ?

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад

      That 8 to 16V will be your power input voltage, not input sensitivity.

  • @dsk-xx
    @dsk-xx Месяц назад

    What if say my left mid bass eq is cut at 300hz and boost at 400hz . While right mid bass is boosted at 300 but cut at 400.
    As per my response scenario and eq requirements.
    But amplifier gain setting knob is common for these 2 channels.
    What to do in that case?

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад +3

      You choose the "weakest link". See which OVERALL boost is higher, the 300 on R or 400 on L. As well take into account the channel gain. For example if your l side has +2dB overall boost at 400Hz and -3dB channel gain, you are -1dB in total for the l channel. And if your right side has +1dB overall boost at 300Hz and 0dB channel gain, then your R channel is higher in level, so you should choose 300Hz tone. Hope that makes sense. Just some maths😉

  • @baijoyantarocks
    @baijoyantarocks Месяц назад

    Well good. But what about the calculation people does it while doing gaining amp that ( √ohms×rms) and match the voltage of AC voltage by using multimeter. And can we measure the volt comming in RC by using multimeter.?

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад

      The calculated voltage is a very rough ball park as it takes into account a lot of assumptions. For example it is an assumption that at your voltage the amplifier is making rated power. As well it is an assumption that the ohms value matches the speaker impedance. I would not recommend to use that method.

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад

      You should not have to change the EQ, all should be fine. You might want to double check the individual speaker levels though just to make sure the system is perfectly level matched.

  • @20smgreen
    @20smgreen Месяц назад

    Knowing what I know today about tweeters and power, the output wattage of the amp really is irrelevant. They're only going to use 5 watts at their peak. A good 25wpch amp is prefect.

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад +1

      The problem is that no one makes these small power super clean amps anymore. All low power amps these days are garbage chip amps...

    • @justinhogan7248
      @justinhogan7248 Месяц назад

      ​@RAW-CAt that's not true I have a Class A 35 watt Celestra, excellent tweeter amp

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад

      @@justinhogan7248 where can we buy it and how much does it cost?

  • @dahack1
    @dahack1 Месяц назад

    Quick question. Isn't it the case that in order to use an oscilloscope and get correct readings from it (as well as from multimeter) you need to disconnect speakers from amps?

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад +1

      You can have the subs connected, but mids and tweets you will blow. I never recommend setting gains for mids and tweets, but since people keep asking, I made the video🤷

    • @dahack1
      @dahack1 Месяц назад

      @@RAW-CAt yeah, thought the same. I just heard in the video that the speakers were playing

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад +1

      @@dahack1 no, they were not. It was the amplifier complaining when clipping 😉

    • @dahack1
      @dahack1 Месяц назад

      @@RAW-CAt 🤨🤨 okay-ish 🙂

    • @whitmorestrains
      @whitmorestrains Месяц назад

      @@RAW-CAtThat’s scary you can hear that!

  • @gladboy7722
    @gladboy7722 Месяц назад

    💯💯💯🙏🙏🙏...🍻👊

  • @SM-yx5mp
    @SM-yx5mp Месяц назад

    I’ve noticed that my Helix DSP3.s will only put out its max(6 volts) with the channel gains at (+ 5). My amps accept 6 volt input. Should I just leave the channel gains at “0” and amp gains down and adjust the DSP channel outputs if I need more volume ?

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад

      What signal.are you feeding into the DSP? What is your source? You should have 6V out with 0dB everywhere.

    • @TheSteelerKillers
      @TheSteelerKillers Месяц назад

      yea i have had the same issue like you with same dsp only getting 4 volt with channel gain at 0 i am using a bt card to it

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад

      @@TheSteelerKillers in my experience via BT the output will depend on the phone. On some you get full voltage out, on some a bit less 🤷

    • @TheSteelerKillers
      @TheSteelerKillers Месяц назад

      @@RAW-CAt i have a iPhone 15 PRO idk maybe have to ask helix what they think

    • @SM-yx5mp
      @SM-yx5mp Месяц назад

      Pioneer HU. Analog to DSP. 4 volt HU output.

  • @dediervan8477
    @dediervan8477 Месяц назад

    if you difficult with set gain, just use DSP amp (DSP including Amplifier) no need external amplifier 😁

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад

      The problem with DSP amplifiers is exactly that - there is no gain. So if you are not careful with EQ, you might end up cutting too much and will not be able to bring the level back up. You need to be more considerate.

  • @felixmedrano8208
    @felixmedrano8208 Месяц назад

    So my DSP outputs 6v and my amp sensitivity is 2v-8v, what do I do there?

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад +1

      Increase the gain if you are missing volume.

    • @felixmedrano8208
      @felixmedrano8208 Месяц назад

      @@RAW-CAt just want to say thank you! You are absolutely right! I turned them all down, just had to raise the midbass and mid-range channels a smidge to bring them up to the tweets level, as they played the loudest. After I was done with the EQing/tuning, I had plenty of output. Prior to this no matter what I did I was never satisfied with the output and was doing all sorts of cutting back on channel levels, especially the tweets.

  • @djsunthe1
    @djsunthe1 Месяц назад

    Ive always just sent my gain at -10 DB and then make sure to not boost anything more than 10 db. Is this NOT a good way to do it?

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад

      10dB overlap +boosts will give you even higher overlap.

  • @bennyblanco14
    @bennyblanco14 Месяц назад

    What do i do when i am using optical and not rca into my DSP?

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад

      Exactly the same. A DSP 4V will output 4V no matter the connection to it.

  • @krotaskrotux9290
    @krotaskrotux9290 Месяц назад

    Sveikas tavo manymu kokį filtrą ir dazni parinkt štai šiam daigtui priešbosis Helix Match MW 8BMW-D nes mid 10cm rašo nuo 100hz startas bet spėju kad tai melas 😊

  • @mugsybonze968
    @mugsybonze968 Месяц назад

    All oscilloscope isn't the same i had aukuyee for years same head unit volume is 34 is distortion 50 max using rca now i have this fnrsi volume show me 29 is distortion 50 max do it again show me 50 max no distortion i had to listen with my ear and i see 34 is distortion i will buy smd dd-1 so i don't have to pluggin power ,aukuyee is good

    • @Aaronz2.5RS
      @Aaronz2.5RS Месяц назад

      I just had a seizure reading that... do you actually read what you wrote before sending that shit?

  • @robertoortiz85
    @robertoortiz85 Месяц назад

    -0, -5, or -10db

  • @janrdoh
    @janrdoh Месяц назад +1

    Your wiring is very distracting, I am used to looking at a birds nest.

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад

      Haha, thank you. Some times I do have a birds nest as well. One in a while I make something pretty.

  • @kewlbug
    @kewlbug Месяц назад

    TLDW: Set gains on your sub maybe, everything else, until your ears bleed. (then maybe back it down. lol)

  • @mugsybonze968
    @mugsybonze968 Месяц назад

    Sorry wrong person

  • @davidstevens7809
    @davidstevens7809 Месяц назад

    You need to use a white noise and inject it into the system..to do this freq by freq is totally wrong..

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад

      Oh, that is something new. Amd how does white noise show up on the scope? How do you vidually evaluate clipping?

  • @rockfordfosgategtr
    @rockfordfosgategtr Месяц назад

    Completely incorrect. Not everyone can afford higher volt source units, hence why there is input sensitivity setting for matching. Please spread correct information and not just your own opinion on things.

    • @RAW-CAt
      @RAW-CAt  Месяц назад +2

      Can you please specify what exactly is incorrect? Talking about higher voltage source it is my advice and opinion. I am not stating any facts that can be incorrect🤷 I'm confused...

  • @TomJordan-e5s
    @TomJordan-e5s Месяц назад

    Again you are so helpful thank you for all that u do I learn more and more every video u put out 🤩🫵