Chapters - 0:00 - Introduction 1:45 - Global bestsellers 5:50 - Why international models don't work in India 8:20 - The finer details make all the difference 14:17 - Mismatch between Indian and global requirements 22:24 - India is the home of small cars 29:40 - Ford EcoSport success story 31:25 - Jeep Compass case study 33:40 - Citroen's approach 35:00 - India is still early in journey of motorisation 37:15 - Global brands exporting from India 39:20 - Issues of ground clearance 40:57 - Weightage to NVH 43:20 - Making Indian brands global
Because the Indian car market thinks adding a chrome grille and a touchscreen is "premium," while the global market actually innovates with performance, safety, and technology (Hydrogen, EVs, Diesel, Petrol)
Bro calm down every country has this problem no one buys american trucks in England and no one in America buys Fiat like they do in Italy so calm down bro why so negative at least think about it 5 years ago we are not discussing this thought but now we are and soon enough we will be international it takes time .A very good anecdote is people are buying luxury car their is an appetite of good cars
Excellent discussion...You're right, here in my country of South Africa, our biggest import country for cars is India (these imported models are cheaper than our own locally produced models). The Hyundai Exter was never meant for the export market, but when the Execs at Hyundai South Africa saw this car in India, they convinced their Indian counterparts to bring the Exter to South Africa, & it has been on sale here in RSA for the past 6 months. I, myself drive a made in India Suzuki Baleno 1.5lt ❤....
Prefer to hear the Autocar India Deep Drive Podcast? Listen on: Spotify: spoti.fi/44re4Z5 Apple Podcast: apple.co/4dm563o Amazon Music: amzn.to/4blq94k
Today’s podcast is really excellent. Focused on quality, what material they used in Indian market and for global market, comparison between car sold in India vs other markets, prices point so perfect. It is true that our people don’t want the quality they want the features which is not essential. Safety, quality and durability is more important in my view.
I own a Ford Ecosport 1.5 TDCI diesel and I will still say given the price, it’s one of the best cars to own! I drove that to Himalayan mountains and never had to clutch ride even on the sleepiest roads of Darjeeling and Sikkim.
Hi Harmozd & Sergius Absolutely an excellent presentation with a great dissection of the absolute truth. Indeed we are at the mercy of improper government taxation which has a made us experience a scaled down product. In fact I had an Hyundai Accent in Muscat while my father had the same car in India during 2005. The car in Muscat was way too superior. While my dad visited me in Muscat, he was surprised with the car quality. After returning to India he did mail to Hyundai about the difference in ride & handling. Hyundai just wrote back that it a market specific customisation.
We can discuss for hours what works in the international market and doesn't work in the Indian market. But it is not about the consumer it has more to do with the tax which we have to shell out. For a 14L car we pay 7L in GST plus road tax RTO. So if we get Tucson, Camry of the world why would we compromise on Dzire or amaze.
I would any day prefer best NVH quality, engine performance, driveability, fit and finish, quality of interior plastics, good build quality over things like sunroof, big screen, ambient lighting, etc.
Indeed, the focus on the back seat is so important in India. You know I was sold out on the Kia Syros as soon as I came to know that she was sub-4 with reclining rear seats. And then the ventilated rear seats was icing on the cake until I came to know that it was only for the base and not for the back. I decided against buying it just for that. Why have a sliding reclining rear seat? Take out the sliding and give us a fully ventilated reclining rear seat Kia.
Sad to see jeep struggling with such a good product. Maybe after discontinuing they value will rise just like ford ,hexa and Pajeros. People don't understand the value until it is gone
Hearing @autocarindia1's Podcast with Hormazd has become a routine for Sunday! Once again an excellent podcast😍 Btw, any reason why #Mahindra's #XUV700 weighs 1829kgs for AX7L P AT in Australia vs. 1740ks in India? Will be eager to know the engineering behind it!
Very informative, as always.Continuing on with your discussion regarding the differences in top-selling cars in different countries like the States and the UK, can you guys explain the popular designs/types/class popular in most countries like Japan, Korea, China, SEA, Middle-East, etc. in a future episode?
One of the best european cars which isn't that successful in india but is such a fantastic overall product, quite underrated for what it is, is the Skoda Kodiaq, love that SUV one of the best cars to buy in india for that price.......
whats there in India and whats there in EU should never be identical. India is a country with hell of population density and personal transport should never be cheap. We need better public transport and cars must be taxed to fund public transport.
The current younger generation have no clue on what parameters are important while choosing a car, instead of ride,handling, and pick up they give importance to sun roof, digital instrument cluster, and ambient lighting. Size is more important than quality.
14:46 : Very well put. Global cars dont exist. The markets which have global cars are just not big enough for a car company to develop car for their specific requirements.
This is a very important topic that you have selected for the podcast. While we Indians aspire for more features in our car, it’s high time we are willing to pay a bit of premium for safety, finesse in the interiors, paint quality and drive experience.
You forgot to talk about engine difference. E.g. Cars we have here which are sold with 1.2 L due to taxes are either sold with 1.5 L or 1.6 L engine. E.g. Baleno/Fronx and Venue. And those reviewers say it still feels underpowered, and wished it has bigger engine or turbo 😑 1.0 L turbo and 1.2 L is only India specific due to taxes. Creta and Verna doesn't even exist in Korea. They have venue and directly Tuscon and Santa Fe. They have Sonata, Grandeur etc. Globally what we buy as a luxury, they are entry level cars. E.g. Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla. Toyota a global car manufacturer leader only sells 1 locally fully manufactured car i.e. Innova. Others are either Rebadged Suzuki or CKD/CBU. Most of the Japanese cars sold are Kei cars (Small boxy cars with 660cc Engines) lead by Toyota, Honda, Suzuki, Nissan etc. Most Koreans don't buy other than Hyundai, Kia and Genesis. In US, fuel is so cheaper (₹78/L), that is less a dollar for them. So they only use big muscle cars. With all this, Suzuki came up with Good fuel efficiency, reliability, good service. Hyundai came up with Features, decently good fit and finish and good service. So, don't blame these car manufacturers for making lightweight cars or unsafe cars. Blame goverment for robbing us and making our lives difficult with taxations. In other countries, when a kid becomes eligible to drive vehicle. They drive car, because it's safer than bikes. And India it's someone dream to get a car.😔
3 solutions: 1. Tax reduction, taxes are absurd on the cars. 2. sub 4-metre has to go 3. This will take time, maturity of Indian buyer. And it makes sense, India is a country that's in transition from poor to well off, so, for now everyone wants to have the features first which can give tangible satisfaction, quality satisfaction will come in 20-30 yrs, not now and that's ok. US, EU and Japan have been riding cars since the 50s and 60s, we started 30-40 yrs late in late 90s and 2000s so yeah, it's an immature market but it will improve.
Really it was a very good discussion on this platform to understand what makes a product differentiate from more mature markets and their necessities other than just gimmicks. The core philosophy of our Indian manufacturers should be to cover basics like engine and drivetrain and a solid stable structure. Another main thing to be covered around should be quality, long-term reliability and durability instead of just show. Another difficult factor for our Indian consumers and manufacturers is the high tax slabs imposed where the manufacturers cannot bring their more competitive products for a competitive and cost effective price, so they have to skimp on many basic necessities. Our Indian consumers should also be more mature and focus on good driving performance and long term reliability and quality instead of gimmicks. The fuel price in India is also a big issue and we are being charged very high in order to change from fossil fuels, where once electric vehicles become mainstream after 10 years government will impose high taxes on the vehicles. This strategy will keep on going where the consumers will always suffer in our Asian countries.
I have a 2016 Ford Figo 1.2l, which flopped in India and Europe. Done almost 70,000 km till date and very happy with the car as it feels as solid as ever. The European KA+ was modified for Europe but still not as good as the European Fiesta. But when I shut the front doors, still hear the reassuring 'thud'. Not selling my car for any Korean or Indian or Japanese car with 'features'.
Indian car market is the most boring in the world, and you rightlysaid, its all about GDP, Indian mass customer can't afford the best in world, because they can't afford it, as simple as it is
If the creta is not selling in american/european markets, how is its cousin sibling (Seltos) selling reasonably well in those markets? Seltos might be of a slightly better quality, but its not too far ahead of the creta!
Love for this podcast ❤️ I hope Indians realise that the cars they consider "premium" here are actually inferior from global standards and companies take us for a ride knowing our naive knowledge about cars. Volkswagen Skoda giving such great cars esp till 2021 from 2010 of global standards and people just didn't value them here while they sold like hot cakes globally. Indians should be more aware of the cars in contrast to global standards and should get rid of their obsession for one brand and explore global brands like Volkswagen Skoda, Honda, Citroën, etc who actually give better fundamentals still of global standards vs features which are mostly gimmicks here. Whether it's Imported TSI engines, or Global spawned MQB AO platform, The torsional rigidity of the chassis, the non negotiable deal with safety and dynamics, the longevity of steel and paint, the finesse and steering feedback. Still far superior than any other brand out there! And it shows in the way they drive and consistent safety benchmark they keep setting. This Podcast was needed to give a reality check to us on where we stand. Global brands never sold well in India, VW Skoda (although they are improving sales today), Mitsubishis, Daewoo, Opel, Ssanyong, Ford, Chevrolet etc. All left except VW Skoda. All because we never appreciated the global standards for the cheaply built cars sold here are Suzuki and Hyundai and Indian OEMs. We could have had Lancer Evo, Ford Aspires (another amazing car), Chevrolet Cruze, etc in mass market today if only we had valued them when they were here. Furthermore, today some auto journalists are also responsible for this because they showcase the cars as if global cars are bad and Indian specific cars are good which actually is not true and reality is just the opposite. Educative journalism like this is needed to educate an avg. consumer and unnecessary bashing of global brands should stop and appreciating the finesse they bring is what's necessary.
Really excellent piece of discussion... True to its core. I started with working for Indian OEM's and over years working for European OEM's. One notices all these tits and bits.... Polo example was the best to make it understand
Never heard Autocar stressing about 100% galvanized steel or laser welding. Let's not underplay the substandard auto journalists who created a substandard car economy and created loop. Autocar India championed Carens , a substandard product by GNCAP rating , that had all these "fluff"" features they are cribbing about here. So where was all this insight and pointing out of compromises when Carens , Seltos etc were launched. Why was VW's engineering expertise and finer product details not pointed out by this magazine nor by other so-called auto journals ? Easy to blame the general customer when you have done nothing to improve automotive literacy, a journalistic duty.
If Car reviewer are like Autocar....then we can expect to improve the internal quality of Indian cars......but with the current reviewers gyan level and current level of buyers...we can only see gimmicks
India has always been like this through history except the British rule. What works everywhere doesnt work here and other way round. The mongols or alexander which had good runs all over the world, failed at our doorstep. Conversely babur who came running from defeats made it big here. Suzuki is not very different. People are blaming taxes but even if they were to make cars tax free other constraints will bite including that of lack of space for resultant car population in our populous nation. Also other priorities for govt. where car is luxury still Even if average earning of indians is brought to say mid income country level the demand of indian car customer will still be different from others. Why the hell do people want sunroof in hot and humid country is beyond logic. European car makers are so righteous that they refuse to offer good AC because hey we like the sun / heat. You should like it too! So very little hopes that they will get their global products right for India. Anyone who wants to make big here needs separate focus, which generally results from india being their only hope. Come to think about it, Maybe after american independence british got really proactive with maintaining their hold on India ( their crown jewel)
Kia Seltos is an example where it is a best seller globally and also in India. It’s Kia’s best selling car in 2024 globally. Though both of them are engineered differently and get different set of engines.
*Why online US and European are considered as global markets? Indian cars can perform well in Latin american, south african and to some of the Asian countries as well!*
Your comment on parking spots in America is interesting. People do not like the cars being dented with door dings. There are specifications on how wide a spot should be. Some retailers like Costco will not rent a space unless the parking spot widths meet what Costco stipulates which is much wider than the city regulations. Another reason you failed to mention why Indian cars will not sell abroad is that they’re under powered by Western standards and have very poor acceleration. This makes it difficult to merge onto highways. Most modern cars will do 0 to 100 Kmph in about 6 to 8 seconds. The hot selling Thar Roxx does it in about double this time.
Solution: Decrease tax on Petrol from 65% to 5%, Decrease import duty from 100% to 10%, remove the sub 4 meter & engine size tax rule. Decrease tax to just 10% of the overall car manufacture cost. Result - A flourishing car manufacturing industry out of India 🇮🇳
One question @AutoCar team. Is it really bad that Indians ask for mileage? As in from a environmental and efficiency standpoint, i think this is a fair ask and globally too, car makers should shift focus more on efficiency than raw power or NVH. The fact is even a Alto is sufficient to run properly on our highways (80 - 100 kph speed limit) and we are better off getting 20 - 25kpl than having a XUV with 4 - 5 kpl. Plus the cities, if more users start buying compact/small vehicles, it makes more sense from a congestion/pollution standpoint. What do you think?
I think car reviews (even autocar india) emphasize too much on things like sunroof, chrome grill, ambient lighting etc, and make it sound like these are the most important things for a car. Maybe you guys should start the trend of highlighting more important things as discussed here.
because 99% population don't pay income tax, so govt depends more on GST to collect taxes. Unlike US where 50% population pay income tax rate of 40-50%
Compassion failed when the face-lift came... where they improved quality, but the pricing went up by 100% or more... And here the argument is, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!!!" The interior quality change could have waited for a generational change or something... and honestly, the first gen compass wasn't that bad for india, and people were very fine with the quality, just like Hormazd highlighted.... So, it is a lack of understanding of the market, which has plagued the FCA/Stella's since the UNO days...
I think even v dont want sunroof, ambient lights n big screens. Jst that one a car manufacturer gives it for first mover advantage then the Competition followed it. Instead they should focus on ride comfort, handling and fit n finish. That is what v want
The Range Rover is a prime example of this . Why localise the Range Rover in India . You can see the quality of the localised one and CBU . Customers are paying for quality . We don’t mind paying more for CBU . Don’t localise the defender JLR please
Frankly, we don't deserve nice things. A sample of the other side of the auto news World : "Brand New, Speeding Mercedes Benz GLS SUV Topples: Costs 63 Lakh To Repair" There is a steady stream of 100s of such stray, but consistent "auto news" everyday, which no one has any keenness to remedy.
I'm consistently impressed by the clarity of thought Hormaz displays-it's such a pleasure to watch him in action. And a big shout-out to Sergius for always bringing up the key points. Excellent episode, great job by everyone in the team!
If these subpar poorly engineered cars from Tata is selling 45k units per month whereas Citroen sells hardly in 1000s ...We can conclude indian consumers are funny
How can USA and Europe be global ? Global means the whole world or most of the world. Please don't spread western propaganda. .. Always the cars are made for local preference like USA has bigger cars with less dynamic capability
Such a shame that majority Indians mentality of cars is just about economy and status with no regard for quality or engineering. Hormzad and Sergius, I can understand you trying to sugarcoat the conversation and not blame the consumer mindest here. Also the lions share of blame goes to successive govts and their stupid policies. Taxing safety features and innovation and giving allowances for cheap features.
About time the government improved public transport infrastructure. Trying to make bigger roads to fit more number of cars is like stitching bigger pants for an obese person. We're destroying green cover of cities just to ensure a small percentage of people can use their 4 wheelers.
All this auto psyche gyan and its regurgitation almost blind sights how the "chakachak" (apple polishing) media puts zero pressure on the auto ecosystem in India (City administrations, carmakers, on-road parkers) to make Indian roads even half drive-worthy So more small cars and big cars to simply 'choke the drains' 😢😢
@autocarindia i understand u two are big names in auto journalist. One thing i dont understand why u all miss Russia and other small markets. And dont talk anything about Indian Automobile exploring new markets
Come out of the mindset that a car should be selling in US and Europe to be considered global. Going by your analogy Ford F150 is not a global car but local to US. Btw I have lived 10 yrs abroad. We just need a Change of mindset
Lol isn't it obvious? For Indians it's "Kitna deti hai", "Tissue paper se bana hai? no issues, maintenance me paise bachenge", "Ford? Chevrolet? Wo kya hota hai..kabhi suna nhi hai lol hum to Saruti Mazuki ya koi desi lenge"
Poor infra, poor compliance of laws, low avg income, very high taxation coupled with regulations such as sub 4m 😒 If developed countries are referred to as the west, we should be called the wild wild east
*Indian car buyers are only wasting their hard earned money on feature which they never use after purchase, drivability isn’t their subject, car manufacturers are clever they are selling “cosmetic exterior changes & led lights*
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Chapters -
0:00 - Introduction
1:45 - Global bestsellers
5:50 - Why international models don't work in India
8:20 - The finer details make all the difference
14:17 - Mismatch between Indian and global requirements
22:24 - India is the home of small cars
29:40 - Ford EcoSport success story
31:25 - Jeep Compass case study
33:40 - Citroen's approach
35:00 - India is still early in journey of motorisation
37:15 - Global brands exporting from India
39:20 - Issues of ground clearance
40:57 - Weightage to NVH
43:20 - Making Indian brands global
Because the Indian car market thinks adding a chrome grille and a touchscreen is "premium," while the global market actually innovates with performance, safety, and technology (Hydrogen, EVs, Diesel, Petrol)
Bro calm down every country has this problem no one buys american trucks in England and no one in America buys Fiat like they do in Italy so calm down bro why so negative at least think about it 5 years ago we are not discussing this thought but now we are and soon enough we will be international it takes time .A very good anecdote is people are buying luxury car their is an appetite of good cars
The problem is the taxes are super high in India
Excellent discussion...You're right, here in my country of South Africa, our biggest import country for cars is India (these imported models are cheaper than our own locally produced models). The Hyundai Exter was never meant for the export market, but when the Execs at Hyundai South Africa saw this car in India, they convinced their Indian counterparts to bring the Exter to South Africa, & it has been on sale here in RSA for the past 6 months. I, myself drive a made in India Suzuki Baleno 1.5lt ❤....
24L for Camry in US and 50L in India! With paying capacity of 1/X , we should stop buying cars to force the government to bring the tax down
Prefer to hear the Autocar India Deep Drive Podcast? Listen on:
Spotify: spoti.fi/44re4Z5
Apple Podcast: apple.co/4dm563o
Amazon Music: amzn.to/4blq94k
One of the biggest hurdle sub 4 metre tax norm.
true
But these cars can be sold in European markets where there are narrower roads
before that norm came, excise+VAT was almost 35% in India on all cars. Now GST is 28% on 90% cars
We can't afford because of 2 things, weak Rupee and sky high taxes...nothing else nothing more...
Today’s podcast is really excellent. Focused on quality, what material they used in Indian market and for global market, comparison between car sold in India vs other markets, prices point so perfect. It is true that our people don’t want the quality they want the features which is not essential. Safety, quality and durability is more important in my view.
I own a Ford Ecosport 1.5 TDCI diesel and I will still say given the price, it’s one of the best cars to own! I drove that to Himalayan mountains and never had to clutch ride even on the sleepiest roads of Darjeeling and Sikkim.
Benchmark of auto podcast. Great to see some good Media showing up in india
Dear mr Hormazd and mr. sergius, thank you for another wonderful podcast. Best wishes always.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!
Hi Harmozd & Sergius
Absolutely an excellent presentation with a great dissection of the absolute truth. Indeed we are at the mercy of improper government taxation which has a made us experience a scaled down product. In fact I had an Hyundai Accent in Muscat while my father had the same car in India during 2005. The car in Muscat was way too superior. While my dad visited me in Muscat, he was surprised with the car quality. After returning to India he did mail to Hyundai about the difference in ride & handling. Hyundai just wrote back that it a market specific customisation.
We can discuss for hours what works in the international market and doesn't work in the Indian market. But it is not about the consumer it has more to do with the tax which we have to shell out. For a 14L car we pay 7L in GST plus road tax RTO. So if we get Tucson, Camry of the world why would we compromise on Dzire or amaze.
I would any day prefer best NVH quality, engine performance, driveability, fit and finish, quality of interior plastics, good build quality over things like sunroof, big screen, ambient lighting, etc.
Indeed, the focus on the back seat is so important in India. You know I was sold out on the Kia Syros as soon as I came to know that she was sub-4 with reclining rear seats. And then the ventilated rear seats was icing on the cake until I came to know that it was only for the base and not for the back. I decided against buying it just for that. Why have a sliding reclining rear seat? Take out the sliding and give us a fully ventilated reclining rear seat Kia.
Sad to see jeep struggling with such a good product. Maybe after discontinuing they value will rise just like ford ,hexa and Pajeros. People don't understand the value until it is gone
Proud to own Ford Ecosport . Truely global car 🙂
Hearing @autocarindia1's Podcast with Hormazd has become a routine for Sunday!
Once again an excellent podcast😍
Btw, any reason why #Mahindra's #XUV700 weighs 1829kgs for AX7L P AT in Australia vs. 1740ks in India?
Will be eager to know the engineering behind it!
i think hamara saari companies ko ab global first mind mein rakhte apna product aur brand banana chahiye
Very informative, as always.Continuing on with your discussion regarding the differences in top-selling cars in different countries like the States and the UK, can you guys explain the popular designs/types/class popular in most countries like Japan, Korea, China, SEA, Middle-East, etc. in a future episode?
I will watch it soon. But I must say, the topic is an outstanding thought. This is what was going on in my mind and apt for the moment.
One of the best european cars which isn't that successful in india but is such a fantastic overall product, quite underrated for what it is, is the Skoda Kodiaq, love that SUV one of the best cars to buy in india for that price.......
DeepDrive is a DeepSeek for car enthusiasts.
Great Inside 👍👍 Please Make a Two Part Episode on Chinese IC & EV Cars
Best podcast ever
The next value will be in NVH levels in cars
29:40 EcoSport is one of the most hated car in US, but one of the best cars in India
You guys should make a video about why Skoda didn't work in India.. why their sales numbers and market share is so poor.
whats there in India and whats there in EU should never be identical. India is a country with hell of population density and personal transport should never be cheap. We need better public transport and cars must be taxed to fund public transport.
advanced markets need more power in cars for their bigger roads. even the fronx and baleno gets 1.5 NA
Very good topic autocar! I love listening to Hormazd sir
Along with Customer maturity, Indian Govt maturity counts
The current younger generation have no clue on what parameters are important while choosing a car, instead of ride,handling, and pick up they give importance to sun roof, digital instrument cluster, and ambient lighting. Size is more important than quality.
Thank you ❤
14:46 : Very well put. Global cars dont exist. The markets which have global cars are just not big enough for a car company to develop car for their specific requirements.
This is a very important topic that you have selected for the podcast. While we Indians aspire for more features in our car, it’s high time we are willing to pay a bit of premium for safety, finesse in the interiors, paint quality and drive experience.
We are already paying a premium in terms of stupid taxes on a car.
You forgot to talk about engine difference.
E.g. Cars we have here which are sold with 1.2 L due to taxes are either sold with 1.5 L or 1.6 L engine. E.g. Baleno/Fronx and Venue. And those reviewers say it still feels underpowered, and wished it has bigger engine or turbo 😑
1.0 L turbo and 1.2 L is only India specific due to taxes.
Creta and Verna doesn't even exist in Korea. They have venue and directly Tuscon and Santa Fe. They have Sonata, Grandeur etc.
Globally what we buy as a luxury, they are entry level cars. E.g. Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla.
Toyota a global car manufacturer leader only sells 1 locally fully manufactured car i.e. Innova. Others are either Rebadged Suzuki or CKD/CBU.
Most of the Japanese cars sold are Kei cars (Small boxy cars with 660cc Engines) lead by Toyota, Honda, Suzuki, Nissan etc.
Most Koreans don't buy other than Hyundai, Kia and Genesis.
In US, fuel is so cheaper (₹78/L), that is less a dollar for them. So they only use big muscle cars.
With all this, Suzuki came up with Good fuel efficiency, reliability, good service.
Hyundai came up with Features, decently good fit and finish and good service.
So, don't blame these car manufacturers for making lightweight cars or unsafe cars. Blame goverment for robbing us and making our lives difficult with taxations.
In other countries, when a kid becomes eligible to drive vehicle. They drive car, because it's safer than bikes. And India it's someone dream to get a car.😔
The only point is value … even till this day Indian buyers are extremely value sensitive
3 solutions:
1. Tax reduction, taxes are absurd on the cars.
2. sub 4-metre has to go
3. This will take time, maturity of Indian buyer.
And it makes sense, India is a country that's in transition from poor to well off, so, for now everyone wants to have the features first which can give tangible satisfaction, quality satisfaction will come in 20-30 yrs, not now and that's ok. US, EU and Japan have been riding cars since the 50s and 60s, we started 30-40 yrs late in late 90s and 2000s so yeah, it's an immature market but it will improve.
Really it was a very good discussion on this platform to understand what makes a product differentiate from more mature markets and their necessities other than just gimmicks. The core philosophy of our Indian manufacturers should be to cover basics like engine and drivetrain and a solid stable structure. Another main thing to be covered around should be quality, long-term reliability and durability instead of just show.
Another difficult factor for our Indian consumers and manufacturers is the high tax slabs imposed where the manufacturers cannot bring their more competitive products for a competitive and cost effective price, so they have to skimp on many basic necessities.
Our Indian consumers should also be more mature and focus on good driving performance and long term reliability and quality instead of gimmicks.
The fuel price in India is also a big issue and we are being charged very high in order to change from fossil fuels, where once electric vehicles become mainstream after 10 years government will impose high taxes on the vehicles.
This strategy will keep on going where the consumers will always suffer in our Asian countries.
I have a 2016 Ford Figo 1.2l, which flopped in India and Europe. Done almost 70,000 km till date and very happy with the car as it feels as solid as ever. The European KA+ was modified for Europe but still not as good as the European Fiesta. But when I shut the front doors, still hear the reassuring 'thud'. Not selling my car for any Korean or Indian or Japanese car with 'features'.
What if Ford brings a EV😅
Indian car market is the most boring in the world, and you rightlysaid, its all about GDP,
Indian mass customer can't afford the best in world, because they can't afford it, as simple as it is
Because of our government and their regressive taxation policies.
If the creta is not selling in american/european markets, how is its cousin sibling (Seltos) selling reasonably well in those markets?
Seltos might be of a slightly better quality, but its not too far ahead of the creta!
I like it , I understand how deep and interesting things are unknown to me.Keep it going 👍
Love for this podcast ❤️ I hope Indians realise that the cars they consider "premium" here are actually inferior from global standards and companies take us for a ride knowing our naive knowledge about cars.
Volkswagen Skoda giving such great cars esp till 2021 from 2010 of global standards and people just didn't value them here while they sold like hot cakes globally.
Indians should be more aware of the cars in contrast to global standards and should get rid of their obsession for one brand and explore global brands like Volkswagen Skoda, Honda, Citroën, etc who actually give better fundamentals still of global standards vs features which are mostly gimmicks here. Whether it's Imported TSI engines, or Global spawned MQB AO platform, The torsional rigidity of the chassis, the non negotiable deal with safety and dynamics, the longevity of steel and paint, the finesse and steering feedback. Still far superior than any other brand out there! And it shows in the way they drive and consistent safety benchmark they keep setting.
This Podcast was needed to give a reality check to us on where we stand.
Global brands never sold well in India, VW Skoda (although they are improving sales today), Mitsubishis, Daewoo, Opel, Ssanyong, Ford, Chevrolet etc. All left except VW Skoda. All because we never appreciated the global standards for the cheaply built cars sold here are Suzuki and Hyundai and Indian OEMs.
We could have had Lancer Evo, Ford Aspires (another amazing car), Chevrolet Cruze, etc in mass market today if only we had valued them when they were here.
Furthermore, today some auto journalists are also responsible for this because they showcase the cars as if global cars are bad and Indian specific cars are good which actually is not true and reality is just the opposite.
Educative journalism like this is needed to educate an avg. consumer and unnecessary bashing of global brands should stop and appreciating the finesse they bring is what's necessary.
We're a ghareeeb nation and wish to remain that way. Ghareebi is a virtue in Socialist India.
Really excellent piece of discussion... True to its core. I started with working for Indian OEM's and over years working for European OEM's. One notices all these tits and bits.... Polo example was the best to make it understand
Never heard Autocar stressing about 100% galvanized steel or laser welding. Let's not underplay the substandard auto journalists who created a substandard car economy and created loop. Autocar India championed Carens , a substandard product by GNCAP rating , that had all these "fluff"" features they are cribbing about here. So where was all this insight and pointing out of compromises when Carens , Seltos etc were launched. Why was VW's engineering expertise and finer product details not pointed out by this magazine nor by other so-called auto journals ? Easy to blame the general customer when you have done nothing to improve automotive literacy, a journalistic duty.
If Car reviewer are like Autocar....then we can expect to improve the internal quality of Indian cars......but with the current reviewers gyan level and current level of buyers...we can only see gimmicks
Brilliant Content amazing Insights about automobile engineering 💯🤘🏻👌🏼🚗
India has always been like this through history except the British rule. What works everywhere doesnt work here and other way round.
The mongols or alexander which had good runs all over the world, failed at our doorstep. Conversely babur who came running from defeats made it big here.
Suzuki is not very different. People are blaming taxes but even if they were to make cars tax free other constraints will bite including that of lack of space for resultant car population in our populous nation. Also other priorities for govt. where car is luxury still
Even if average earning of indians is brought to say mid income country level the demand of indian car customer will still be different from others. Why the hell do people want sunroof in hot and humid country is beyond logic.
European car makers are so righteous that they refuse to offer good AC because hey we like the sun / heat. You should like it too! So very little hopes that they will get their global products right for India.
Anyone who wants to make big here needs separate focus, which generally results from india being their only hope. Come to think about it, Maybe after american independence british got really proactive with maintaining their hold on India ( their crown jewel)
Fantastic insight!!!!
Maybe irrelevant or unrelated facts, but does present a pattern!!!
Fantastic video, as always!
Kia Seltos is an example where it is a best seller globally and also in India. It’s Kia’s best selling car in 2024 globally. Though both of them are engineered differently and get different set of engines.
*Why online US and European are considered as global markets? Indian cars can perform well in Latin american, south african and to some of the Asian countries as well!*
Your comment on parking spots in America is interesting. People do not like the cars being dented with door dings. There are specifications on how wide a spot should be. Some retailers like Costco will not rent a space unless the parking spot widths meet what Costco stipulates which is much wider than the city regulations.
Another reason you failed to mention why Indian cars will not sell abroad is that they’re under powered by Western standards and have very poor acceleration. This makes it difficult to merge onto highways. Most modern cars will do 0 to 100 Kmph in about 6 to 8 seconds. The hot selling Thar Roxx does it in about double this time.
Very nicely analysed. The Jeep compass Petrol i feel was highly underpowered. for a large car like that a 1,4 litre engine was not sufficient.
Solution: Decrease tax on Petrol from 65% to 5%, Decrease import duty from 100% to 10%, remove the sub 4 meter & engine size tax rule. Decrease tax to just 10% of the overall car manufacture cost.
Result - A flourishing car manufacturing industry out of India 🇮🇳
Wonderful episode!!
Morals of the story :
1. India is a chhapri market
2. Taxes in India r too high
Great topic, despite all the differences of opinion I have.
One question @AutoCar team. Is it really bad that Indians ask for mileage? As in from a environmental and efficiency standpoint, i think this is a fair ask and globally too, car makers should shift focus more on efficiency than raw power or NVH. The fact is even a Alto is sufficient to run properly on our highways (80 - 100 kph speed limit) and we are better off getting 20 - 25kpl than having a XUV with 4 - 5 kpl. Plus the cities, if more users start buying compact/small vehicles, it makes more sense from a congestion/pollution standpoint. What do you think?
I think car reviews (even autocar india) emphasize too much on things like sunroof, chrome grill, ambient lighting etc, and make it sound like these are the most important things for a car. Maybe you guys should start the trend of highlighting more important things as discussed here.
Not every customer want the sunroof or electric adjuster, rather enforced by oem's
Unnecessary additions if you feel to take the top ends 😢
The same quality issues are with our Grains (Wheat, Rice etc...) our quality does not live upto global nutritional standards.
Sirs, I think India has syndrome of taxes and sub 4 metre smaller car
because 99% population don't pay income tax, so govt depends more on GST to collect taxes. Unlike US where 50% population pay income tax rate of 40-50%
Compassion failed when the face-lift came... where they improved quality, but the pricing went up by 100% or more...
And here the argument is, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!!!"
The interior quality change could have waited for a generational change or something... and honestly, the first gen compass wasn't that bad for india, and people were very fine with the quality, just like Hormazd highlighted....
So, it is a lack of understanding of the market, which has plagued the FCA/Stella's since the UNO days...
USA and western EU is a blip on radar, too small to be significant on a global scale. If any car sells in 10+ countries, then it is a global product.
14:41 mahindra exporting to Africa and Australia well
I think even v dont want sunroof, ambient lights n big screens. Jst that one a car manufacturer gives it for first mover advantage then the Competition followed it. Instead they should focus on ride comfort, handling and fit n finish. That is what v want
Cars like Safari and a few bigger local cars should get a bit more powerful engines. Like 2L Turbo inline 4, or even experiment with V6s.
4 meter rule and huge tax of cars ( more than 50 %). Also we are not rich like western countries
The Range Rover is a prime example of this . Why localise the Range Rover in India . You can see the quality of the localised one and CBU . Customers are paying for quality . We don’t mind paying more for CBU . Don’t localise the defender JLR please
do one podcast on indian 2 wheelers in global market
What about Tata Harrier and Mahindra XUV 500. They are good strong SUVs and shd have done well outside India too
Compare tata ultra truck selling in india and Korea. Ultra in Korea looks like a luxury car inside.
Frankly, we don't deserve nice things. A sample of the other side of the auto news World : "Brand New, Speeding Mercedes Benz GLS SUV Topples: Costs 63 Lakh To Repair"
There is a steady stream of 100s of such stray, but consistent "auto news" everyday, which no one has any keenness to remedy.
I'm consistently impressed by the clarity of thought Hormaz displays-it's such a pleasure to watch him in action. And a big shout-out to Sergius for always bringing up the key points. Excellent episode, great job by everyone in the team!
Customers here are dumb, its hard to sell a technically sound car. People want bollywood cars.
Hey hormaz, is there anyway we could see you guys once in 3 days ?😢
Maruthi Suzuki frames rules to kill competitors …. India should reduce tax and should mandate scrap car after 15 years
Very high taxes. Who wouldn't want good cars . Purely price sensitive market.
does anyone remember the chevrolet optra hatch
If these subpar poorly engineered cars from Tata is selling 45k units per month whereas Citroen sells hardly in 1000s ...We can conclude indian consumers are funny
French comfort also comes with french reliability.
How can USA and Europe be global ? Global means the whole world or most of the world. Please don't spread western propaganda. ..
Always the cars are made for local preference like USA has bigger cars with less dynamic capability
Such a shame that majority Indians mentality of cars is just about economy and status with no regard for quality or engineering.
Hormzad and Sergius, I can understand you trying to sugarcoat the conversation and not blame the consumer mindest here.
Also the lions share of blame goes to successive govts and their stupid policies. Taxing safety features and innovation and giving allowances for cheap features.
We have lot of creta running in UK roads
HAHAHAHA. It is not sold in UK.
About time the government improved public transport infrastructure. Trying to make bigger roads to fit more number of cars is like stitching bigger pants for an obese person. We're destroying green cover of cities just to ensure a small percentage of people can use their 4 wheelers.
All this auto psyche gyan and its regurgitation almost blind sights how the "chakachak" (apple polishing) media puts zero pressure on the auto ecosystem in India (City administrations, carmakers, on-road parkers) to make Indian roads even half drive-worthy
So more small cars and big cars to simply 'choke the drains' 😢😢
@autocarindia i understand u two are big names in auto journalist. One thing i dont understand why u all miss Russia and other small markets. And dont talk anything about Indian Automobile exploring new markets
Come out of the mindset that a car should be selling in US and Europe to be considered global. Going by your analogy Ford F150 is not a global car but local to US. Btw I have lived 10 yrs abroad. We just need a Change of mindset
Lol isn't it obvious? For Indians it's "Kitna deti hai", "Tissue paper se bana hai? no issues, maintenance me paise bachenge", "Ford? Chevrolet? Wo kya hota hai..kabhi suna nhi hai lol hum to Saruti Mazuki ya koi desi lenge"
Poor infra, poor compliance of laws, low avg income, very high taxation coupled with regulations such as sub 4m 😒
If developed countries are referred to as the west, we should be called the wild wild east
*Indian car buyers are only wasting their hard earned money on feature which they never use after purchase, drivability isn’t their subject, car manufacturers are clever they are selling “cosmetic exterior changes & led lights*
38:00 and what about honda not providing parts in open market. you are bound to take help of service station for any issue and parts
Ecosport 🦁
This budget is finally a good news for the middle class 😅
Do you think Honda will exit the Indian market?
The protectionist policies have done more harm than good for Indian Auto industry
It's all about how much you want to pay for what you want.