In Japan, the position players would shift according to each batter AND each pitch. Short stop and second base will follow the catchers signing and share with others if necessary. Knowing the pitch (and the game plan) also gives an advantage to be able to start the first step/movement (or at least start shifting weight towards the first step) almost simultaneously with the pitcher’s pitch. If the shift is only taking into consideration the hitter, it may counteract the play plan of the battery.
Absolutely! We have similar systems in play at the collegiate level, knowing what’s coming is crucial as an infielder. That half step one way or another could be the difference between an out and a run! Thanks for watching all the way from Japan!
Personally i have no problem with the shift or positioning any defensive player anywhere the manager wants. We did that even in my elementary school team! Once players relearn how to bunt and hit opposite defenses will be kept more honest
They work because of two things 1) Players not learning a fundamental skill throughout their baseball career. And 2) Ego and desire for a big contract preventing them from taking the easy base hit.
Great explanation! It really bothers me how old baseball people don't want the game changed but this is for the better, better strategy, more thinking, better baseball. I also wonder why some hitters don't bunt more, if you bunt and get a hit 3/10 times even they won't shift anymore and you get the whole right side open again.
Thanks for the comment, Yitz! I’m all for the new level of strategy shifts add to the game. To some hitters, only giving up a bunt single is a win as the alternative is them putting one over the fence. It’s a choice all hitters can make - but only situationally do we see it done.
I used to think this same thing but statistically that’s not true, if you’re biggest threat in the lineup is not taking normal swings and instead settling for singles then the opponent is considering it a success.
I guess what I worry about with the shift is that it encourages people to just swing for the fences which then leads to an insane number of strikeouts. I mean you have guys now who strike out about as much in a week, as Joe DiMaggio did during the entire 1941 season. Maybe it’s not a fair comparison as DiMaggio was one of the greatest hitters of all time. Still, it does seem sometimes like the shift has taken away some of the offensive strategy of the game, that is to say the manufacturing of runs. I’m not really sure what should be done about it, though. People on both sides of the shift argument are very passionate. I do miss the days, though, when there was more embarrassment for striking out. Anyway, I enjoyed your video and I hope this finds you well wherever you are.
Appreciate the comment! That's the argument for banning the shift, that's for sure. It definitely has helped lead us to a 3 outcome sport (Walk, Strikeout, or Home Run) which to some is not nearly as exciting as the strategy involved in moving a runner over. From an analytics standpoint, it makes a lot of sense. Put your players where the batter hit's it most frequently. But it'll be interesting to see how this continues to adapt as hitters do as well. Saw a good piece of hitting last night by the Cardinals away from a big lefty shift late in the game! Thanks for the comment and the well wishes!
@@SimpleSabermetrics That's my concern as well. Nothing is more unexciting than a tennis match where each serve is an ace. What's the point? Baseball has been headed in that direction with the strikeout and home run. I love today's stats and knowledge that we didn't previously have, but at some point, we have to remain conscious about what makes baseball watchable.
IMO, it is what it is. Other sports have banned certain formations, NFL has illegal formations, NBA has 3 in the key. I just think of it as MLB changing rules to change the product on field, and there's nothing wrong with it. I mean think of this way, a racing series tells you what kind of engine you need to use, what materials you can use how big your car is, dimensions of and wings or aerodynamics, they regualrly change these rules to change what happens on track, F1 is about to start a new season with a big rules shakeup.
The question I’ve had regarding shifts is this: If a player hits 60% of his balls to one side, 30% up the middle, and 10% to the opposite way like in your example, you say the shift is a good move. But those numbers reflect the batters tendencies when there is no shift and they can swing freely. Once a shift is applied, won’t most players make a conscious effort to begin pushing the ball oppo? I get that some players can’t help but pull the ball, but is there any way to tell if a player will adjust to the shift until you try it and see the results? Thanks for your content and another great video
This is an excellent point, and something that has been argued about the shift since its beginning. There definitely is a physiological part to shifting a hitter - most of them who face a major shift (like 3 INF to one side of 2B) would do more damage if they continued to pull the ball. For example, if Joey Gallo were to try and push the ball to the other side of the field he would be limiting his ability to pull home runs/extra base hits (in 2018 Gallo hit more HR’s than 1B’s). As a defender, I’d much rather deal with Gallo hitting something weak away from the shift than something strong without it. That is the give and take of implementing these aggressive defensive changes. Thanks for the comment!
@@SimpleSabermetrics - Ted Williams is always the first to come to mind for me when the shift is discussed. As best I can recall, he disdained going opposite field when teams shifted on him. I never understood that mindset, and it added to his reputation of being a selfish player. But he was a smart player - like Cobb, Ruth, Musial, Gwynn. Williams likely reasoned, as you did, that he could do more "damage" maintaining his accustomed stroke, rather than chipping the ball to the opposite field. You are probably right on this point, and it just shows the depth of thinking that goes into handling these situations.
@@Briansgate true, but then it just becomes middle school science class level natural selection. The players who can adapt will adapt, the players who can’t won’t and will disappear, and the next generation of players will be made up of guys who can hit to all fields
@@calebbohrer3757 It hasn't happened, and it likely won't. The greatest factor in being an effective hitter is hitting the ball hard, if you consistently hit the ball harder than the next guy, you are more often than not going to have better results, harder hit balls have a better chance of getting past fielders when they are in play, and leaving play for a home run. Players are refining their swing mechanics to hit the ball as hard as possible as consistently as possible, and only some and hit the ball hard to all fields. As fun as David Fletcher is to watch, he isn't as effective as Joey Gallo. And there's only so many Vlad Jrs or Juan Sotos.
Does the defense shift only when bases are empty? Because if there's a runner on second and the 3rd baseman is behind 2nd base all the hitter needs to do is hit a ball to the left side of the infield for the runner to score.
I used to pitch and whatever you think i can tell you that id rather have a guy rip one up the middle for asingle than he hit one weakly where aguy should have been playing. Also i now have to pitch to the hitters strengths. The shift does not practically it only works on paper
Banned before the fan base dwindles down to a handful of autistic nerds. Thank god. Now I don’t have to hear unathletic nerds say these players suck and they should just bunt.
The shift only works because of the batter's defency.that is move away from the plate.then the pitcher will throw the ball outside or outside corner.batter adjusts moving into the ball away.and hits to the opposite field.batter can also shorten up on the bat and with hands closer to the barrel punch the ball to opposite field.if you are good with the bat you put english on the ball.from a left hand batter.right hand pitcher.hitter see's slider or curve ball.instead of pulling the ball.the hitter uses the spin coming toward him and hits the inside half of the ball.choping with the barrel.and if you got balls you.choke up and use the end of the bat.(opposite the handle) as cue and strikes the ball.as far as i know it is legal.a la matty alou.have you ever seen a batted ball cork screwed.last time i saw that was 1972 against the cards and bob Gibson.ask tim mc carver.its funny as hell as seven fielders chase the ball from the infield to the outfield.the hitter circling the bases before the ball is fielded.of course that was 72a strike year.so the players had to be entertaining.
because so many batters are trying to hit home runs and start training to hit homeruns from such a young age, instead of getting on base with contact hits, they can't concentrate on putting the ball were they want because there is less control trying to hit for distance. I think the shift should have changed training for the youth and I'm not sure it has!!!
It's effective, but the unintended consequence of reducing runs and batting average is making the game more boring. Baseball is entertainment if the entertainment isn't entertaining they are going to have a problem.
Watching my team i notice a lot of shifts when the opponent has a runner at first with less then two outs, that's what really bothers me. We give up too many bases hits that would've been inning ending double plays. Otherwise it makes sense to me. But a runner at first with less than two outs, that doesn't make sense to me.
There are definitely some times where the shift may not work - we’ve all seen players drop down bunts or put one on the ground right where a player would typically be positioned. With the amount of data teams have now, I’d trust that when they’re shifting that they believe they have the best chance to get an out - even if they have to give up a double play opportunity. This may be rare, but it definitely can be frustrating! Thank you for the comment - always great to hear the other side of the story too.
Simple Sabermetrics thank you for the reply! Yeah i am an angels fan and i probably just remember the double plays we give up to shift and then get no outs more than i remember the times where a shift actually works out haha. I was super curious about the stats behind it though. I still feel like maybe our manager uses it in not great situations but I'm sure he knows a lot more than i do or has a lot more data readily available to him.love the videos!
What kind of clown would claim that shifts should be BANNED? What the heck lol. The defenders can position themselves however they want, for better or worse. That's the team's decision. If they are rewarded for it, great. If they suffer for it, then that's just what it is. They took the risk. We don't gate keep on how defenders want to defend.
Everybody is entitled to their opinions! It has definitely changed the game in a major way. It will be interesting to see if any restrictions are placed on shifting down the road.
Analytics once again ruining baseball. Id bet if i got a hold of the metrics, and ran the numbers, it would bear out that an even disribution of players over the field would be the most practical defensive strategy. Hence the original setup of the positions. I think we need to give the game's creators a bit more credit.
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In Japan, the position players would shift according to each batter AND each pitch. Short stop and second base will follow the catchers signing and share with others if necessary. Knowing the pitch (and the game plan) also gives an advantage to be able to start the first step/movement (or at least start shifting weight towards the first step) almost simultaneously with the pitcher’s pitch. If the shift is only taking into consideration the hitter, it may counteract the play plan of the battery.
Absolutely! We have similar systems in play at the collegiate level, knowing what’s coming is crucial as an infielder. That half step one way or another could be the difference between an out and a run! Thanks for watching all the way from Japan!
Personally i have no problem with the shift or positioning any defensive player anywhere the manager wants. We did that even in my elementary school team!
Once players relearn how to bunt and hit opposite defenses will be kept more honest
They work because of two things 1) Players not learning a fundamental skill throughout their baseball career. And 2) Ego and desire for a big contract preventing them from taking the easy base hit.
Great explanation! It really bothers me how old baseball people don't want the game changed but this is for the better, better strategy, more thinking, better baseball. I also wonder why some hitters don't bunt more, if you bunt and get a hit 3/10 times even they won't shift anymore and you get the whole right side open again.
Thanks for the comment, Yitz! I’m all for the new level of strategy shifts add to the game.
To some hitters, only giving up a bunt single is a win as the alternative is them putting one over the fence. It’s a choice all hitters can make - but only situationally do we see it done.
I used to think this same thing but statistically that’s not true, if you’re biggest threat in the lineup is not taking normal swings and instead settling for singles then the opponent is considering it a success.
I guess what I worry about with the shift is that it encourages people to just swing for the fences which then leads to an insane number of strikeouts. I mean you have guys now who strike out about as much in a week, as Joe DiMaggio did during the entire 1941 season. Maybe it’s not a fair comparison as DiMaggio was one of the greatest hitters of all time. Still, it does seem sometimes like the shift has taken away some of the offensive strategy of the game, that is to say the manufacturing of runs. I’m not really sure what should be done about it, though. People on both sides of the shift argument are very passionate. I do miss the days, though, when there was more embarrassment for striking out. Anyway, I enjoyed your video and I hope this finds you well wherever you are.
Appreciate the comment! That's the argument for banning the shift, that's for sure. It definitely has helped lead us to a 3 outcome sport (Walk, Strikeout, or Home Run) which to some is not nearly as exciting as the strategy involved in moving a runner over.
From an analytics standpoint, it makes a lot of sense. Put your players where the batter hit's it most frequently. But it'll be interesting to see how this continues to adapt as hitters do as well.
Saw a good piece of hitting last night by the Cardinals away from a big lefty shift late in the game! Thanks for the comment and the well wishes!
@@SimpleSabermetrics That's my concern as well. Nothing is more unexciting than a tennis match where each serve is an ace. What's the point? Baseball has been headed in that direction with the strikeout and home run. I love today's stats and knowledge that we didn't previously have, but at some point, we have to remain conscious about what makes baseball watchable.
Im here as a casual fan. Just trying to learn why they’re banning this.
Ditto 😂
@@dhamilton5174 what?
@@biggeneral165 I mean I'm here for the same reason as you.
IMO, it is what it is. Other sports have banned certain formations, NFL has illegal formations, NBA has 3 in the key. I just think of it as MLB changing rules to change the product on field, and there's nothing wrong with it. I mean think of this way, a racing series tells you what kind of engine you need to use, what materials you can use how big your car is, dimensions of and wings or aerodynamics, they regualrly change these rules to change what happens on track, F1 is about to start a new season with a big rules shakeup.
@@Wozrop
And the NHL shrunk the neutral zone to discourage the use of the trap defense because it was making hockey boring
The question I’ve had regarding shifts is this: If a player hits 60% of his balls to one side, 30% up the middle, and 10% to the opposite way like in your example, you say the shift is a good move. But those numbers reflect the batters tendencies when there is no shift and they can swing freely. Once a shift is applied, won’t most players make a conscious effort to begin pushing the ball oppo? I get that some players can’t help but pull the ball, but is there any way to tell if a player will adjust to the shift until you try it and see the results? Thanks for your content and another great video
This is an excellent point, and something that has been argued about the shift since its beginning.
There definitely is a physiological part to shifting a hitter - most of them who face a major shift (like 3 INF to one side of 2B) would do more damage if they continued to pull the ball.
For example, if Joey Gallo were to try and push the ball to the other side of the field he would be limiting his ability to pull home runs/extra base hits (in 2018 Gallo hit more HR’s than 1B’s).
As a defender, I’d much rather deal with Gallo hitting something weak away from the shift than something strong without it. That is the give and take of implementing these aggressive defensive changes.
Thanks for the comment!
@@SimpleSabermetrics - Ted Williams is always the first to come to mind for me when the shift is discussed. As best I can recall, he disdained going opposite field when teams shifted on him.
I never understood that mindset, and it added to his reputation of being a selfish player. But he was a smart player - like Cobb, Ruth, Musial, Gwynn. Williams likely reasoned, as you did, that he could do more "damage" maintaining his accustomed stroke, rather than chipping the ball to the opposite field. You are probably right on this point, and it just shows the depth of thinking that goes into handling these situations.
these days, most batters are not good enough to do that. They will only do what they are best at and most cannot adjust.
@@Briansgate true, but then it just becomes middle school science class level natural selection. The players who can adapt will adapt, the players who can’t won’t and will disappear, and the next generation of players will be made up of guys who can hit to all fields
@@calebbohrer3757 It hasn't happened, and it likely won't. The greatest factor in being an effective hitter is hitting the ball hard, if you consistently hit the ball harder than the next guy, you are more often than not going to have better results, harder hit balls have a better chance of getting past fielders when they are in play, and leaving play for a home run. Players are refining their swing mechanics to hit the ball as hard as possible as consistently as possible, and only some and hit the ball hard to all fields. As fun as David Fletcher is to watch, he isn't as effective as Joey Gallo. And there's only so many Vlad Jrs or Juan Sotos.
0:00 Baseball
0:24 The Shift
7:13 Does The Shift Work?
Appreciate the help man!
Does the defense shift only when bases are empty? Because if there's a runner on second and the 3rd baseman is behind 2nd base all the hitter needs to do is hit a ball to the left side of the infield for the runner to score.
I used to pitch and whatever you think i can tell you that id rather have a guy rip one up the middle for asingle than he hit one weakly where aguy should have been playing. Also i now have to pitch to the hitters strengths. The shift does not practically it only works on paper
Nerd
The defensive shift has definitely become a part of today's game. I doubt that the shift will be banned. Great Video Jake.
I don’t see it being banned any time soon! Thanks for the comment, Javier.
Tragic
@@SimpleSabermetrics banned.
Banned before the fan base dwindles down to a handful of autistic nerds. Thank god. Now I don’t have to hear unathletic nerds say these players suck and they should just bunt.
Defensive shift is now banned!
Outstanding video!
Thanks Spencer!
The shift only works because of the batter's defency.that is move away from the plate.then the pitcher will throw the ball outside or outside corner.batter adjusts moving into the ball away.and hits to the opposite field.batter can also shorten up on the bat and with hands closer to the barrel punch the ball to opposite field.if you are good with the bat you put english on the ball.from a left hand batter.right hand pitcher.hitter see's slider or curve ball.instead of pulling the ball.the hitter uses the spin coming toward him and hits the inside half of the ball.choping with the barrel.and if you got balls you.choke up and use the end of the bat.(opposite the handle) as cue and strikes the ball.as far as i know it is legal.a la matty alou.have you ever seen a batted ball cork screwed.last time i saw that was 1972 against the cards and bob Gibson.ask tim mc carver.its funny as hell as seven fielders chase the ball from the infield to the outfield.the hitter circling the bases before the ball is fielded.of course that was 72a strike year.so the players had to be entertaining.
because so many batters are trying to hit home runs and start training to hit homeruns from such a young age, instead of getting on base with contact hits, they can't concentrate on putting the ball were they want because there is less control trying to hit for distance. I think the shift should have changed training for the youth and I'm not sure it has!!!
The shift put baseball on a lifeline. taking it way allowed baseball to become more fun.
Why not bunt? Base hit might get a double.
Great video, they obviously worked now that they are banned
It's effective, but the unintended consequence of reducing runs and batting average is making the game more boring.
Baseball is entertainment if the entertainment isn't entertaining they are going to have a problem.
Shift Will be banned. Can you explain the reason?
Basehits in play is way down and the shift is huge factor that’s why
As a lefty, it's time for me to drop a bunt down the third baseline and ruin this video lol
Ha! The overshift to a LHB is always begging for a bunt. You’re not wrong!
RIP shift.
Watching my team i notice a lot of shifts when the opponent has a runner at first with less then two outs, that's what really bothers me. We give up too many bases hits that would've been inning ending double plays. Otherwise it makes sense to me. But a runner at first with less than two outs, that doesn't make sense to me.
There are definitely some times where the shift may not work - we’ve all seen players drop down bunts or put one on the ground right where a player would typically be positioned.
With the amount of data teams have now, I’d trust that when they’re shifting that they believe they have the best chance to get an out - even if they have to give up a double play opportunity.
This may be rare, but it definitely can be frustrating! Thank you for the comment - always great to hear the other side of the story too.
Simple Sabermetrics thank you for the reply! Yeah i am an angels fan and i probably just remember the double plays we give up to shift and then get no outs more than i remember the times where a shift actually works out haha. I was super curious about the stats behind it though. I still feel like maybe our manager uses it in not great situations but I'm sure he knows a lot more than i do or has a lot more data readily available to him.love the videos!
Here because Ohtani shift
Finally getting back to this 1 month later, but funny enough I know exactly which shift you're referring to. Thanks for the comment!
its been a while
Technology like a buzzing patch.....
not anymore
Gotta know ur pitcher.
Absolutely! That’s all part of it. Thanks for the comment.
The shift works and that’s why it’s now banned
and the shift is gone
What kind of clown would claim that shifts should be BANNED? What the heck lol. The defenders can position themselves however they want, for better or worse. That's the team's decision. If they are rewarded for it, great. If they suffer for it, then that's just what it is. They took the risk. We don't gate keep on how defenders want to defend.
It’s a great point! I’m personally for the shift but it is a controversial subject at this point in time. Thanks for the comment
aren't you the clown now?
Apparently all of the clowns that run MLB
Banned
Thank God this is being banned. Anyone that says that a hitter should then hit the other way, never played at a higher level.
High level pitching majority of the time beats high level hitting and therefore hitting oppo is not easy for most hitters
Nice video. But I don't really like it
Everybody is entitled to their opinions! It has definitely changed the game in a major way. It will be interesting to see if any restrictions are placed on shifting down the road.
Mlb is banning it so guess it works enough
Lol. Shift is getting banned! I guess that answered the question.
Analytics once again ruining baseball. Id bet if i got a hold of the metrics, and ran the numbers, it would bear out that an even disribution of players over the field would be the most practical defensive strategy. Hence the original setup of the positions. I think we need to give the game's creators a bit more credit.
Should ban sabermetrics and analytics from the game of baseball! :(
This is why they need to be banned, it’s not helping the game enjoyment as people enjoy seeing hits and fielders being challenged.
Makes for a very boring game....3rd baseman in right field getting an out at 1st! Unwatchable!